Nature, Light, and the Artist’s Eye: Kim Casebeer on Finding Stillness in the Landscape

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Kim ky Speer and I'm a landscape painter.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Art the podcast where we get
to know women from around the world of visual arts.
I'm Chris Stafford and this is Season three, Episode eleven.
My guest this week is the American landscape painter Kim Kasebier,

(00:27):
whose career spans some twenty five years and whose work
is shown in private, corporate, and museum collections throughout the
United States. Kim is represented in galleries from Colorado to Wyoming, Montana, Arizona,
and her home state of Kansas. She says in a
good place in her career now, balancing her time between

(00:51):
studio commissioned work, plenair painting, and teaching workshops. Kim was
born in Newton, Kansas in nineteen seventy and grew up
in the tiny town of Gersall, Kansas with her two
younger sisters, Tricia and Jenny. Her father, Lloyd as a
retired farmer, and mother Marlene, a retired nurse. Kim's family

(01:12):
are fifth generation farmers, so her childhood was spent learning
to grow a variety of crops and compete in the
local four h club, where her talent as a horticulturist
was noteworthy. An early interest in all things artistic was
encouraged by her parents, from drawing tractors with her dad
to learning a variety of mediums through high school and

(01:36):
on to college. It was a natural progression for her
to choose art school, and she laid the foundation for
her career by graduating with the Bachelor in Fine Arts
from Kansas State University with an emphasis on graphic design
in nineteen ninety two. It was here that she met Shannon,
and the couple recently celebrated their thirty first wedding anniversary.

(02:00):
Upon graduating, Kim's first jobs were in graphic design, with
our artwork pursued as a hobby. It was only when
her paintings were generating more income than her employment that
Kim decided it was time to quit her day job
and focus on being a full time artist in two
thousand and one. Kim is a Master Signature member of

(02:22):
the American Women Artists and a Signature member of the
Oil Painters of America and the Pastoral Society of America.
She has received multiple awards and publicity for her work
that focuses on the big skies and wide open spaces
of the Western United States. Kim lives in Manhattan, Kansas,

(02:43):
with her husband Shannon, sons Colin and Lucas, and Australian
shepherd Matilda.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Kim.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Welcome to the Art Podcast. Thank you for being my
guest this week.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Thanks for having me. This is fun and.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
You are joining me from Kansas. We got it as
a flyover state, but it's been home to you forever.
You're a Kansas skill throw and through, aren't you.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
That is correct. I grew up on a farm. I
am a what I would call a fifth generation farm family.
And yeah, I just grew up on a farm, ran
around on the country, in the country side all the time.
Really really just an outdoor girl.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
So how much of that has stayed with you then?
In practical terms, I mean, obviously you lived there still,
But in practical terms, do you feel the farming genes
in you?

Speaker 1 (03:39):
You know?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Do they call out from time to time?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yes, definitely. I don't think I picked up on it
right away when I when I was when I was
taking classes in college, I got a Bachelor of Fine
Arts degree, so I was taking art classes, trying to
find my way, trying to figure out what kind of
artists I was, or I was going to be. I

(04:08):
didn't catch on to that right away, but then I
started painting outside, and I do think that it finally
clicked for me that that that being that coming from
the farming background really translated well to to painting landscape,
to painting outside, to being outside a lot. I love
to plan airpaint, so I'm outside a lot, and I

(04:30):
definitely think that my farm background is the is the
foundation for that.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
So that's the cool to nature and the observation as
much as anything of nature and scenery and the seasons.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Right right, so true, so true. I do. I tell
my students that still today that if you don't have time,
if they're if they're in a class with me and
we are talking about landscape, even if you don't even
if they don't have time to be outside in plant
air paint, just to be outside to observe the landscape

(05:11):
is such a big deal, as huge for a landscape
painter just to take time, because I think so many people,
non artists don't don't take time to to really observe
the landscape. So so if we do that, we are
we're just miles ahead just by observing.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Do you have a favorite season, that's.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Hard Probably fall. It's fall, closely followed by early spring
before everything gets very green. So but I do love
fall for the obvious reason that the colors, the changing
of the season, the variety in the landscape that you
get in fall. Yeah, it's that's it. That's a magical

(05:57):
time to paint.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
And do you have a favorite light?

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Evening evening is my favorite time to paint, followed closely
by early morning. Just I think that's pretty typical for
landscape painters. We prefer those long shadows that more dramatic lighting.
So so yeah, that's that's my favorite.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
The Golden Hour.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, the Golden Hour exactly, exactly. I have quite a
few paintings named that the Golden Hour.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
What a coincidence incident. Now, I know you have two
teenage boys and a husband, and life is obviously very
busy on the home front. But I'm wondering what that
transition going outdoors to paint, plan air or just taking
time for yourself in the studio, how you would just psychologic?

(06:54):
What is the transition light for you? What do you need?

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Well, I am very fortunate in that I was able
to purchase a studio off. It's not in my house.
It's it's it's in another location. And for me that
is really important because I can get everybody off to school,
you'll say goodbye to that, to my husband, everybody's going

(07:20):
off to work. And then I go to my studio
and it's it's a quiet place. It's not full of
noise and all the hustle bustles. So so once I
get in here to my studio, it's it's it's a
mental shift. It's like, Okay, just breathe and calm down
and relax and put on some music and and just

(07:40):
and start painting. So so it's really wonderful that I
have my my personal space that I that I can
paint in.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
When you look at how art has affected you and
your growth as a person, I'm wondering how you see
your own character maybe shifting a little bit. Maybe you
know there's something in your temperament that it's improved. I
know for a lot of artists it's taught us patients

(08:10):
for sure, But I'm wondering what the Kim case but
might have been like before you settled down to be
a professional artist, you know, with all the hubbub of
life and you know, and coming into adulthood too, you know,
going through that phase and who you were then and
who you are now because of your art.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, it probably has taught me patients, that's for sure.
But then again, I think being a mom to two boys,
it's probably done if I have to be perfectly honest,
maybe more so than the art. Yeah I am. I'm

(08:52):
kind of a workhorse, Chris, and I think that comes
from my farm background, Like we're just were workers. So
the biggest trap that I probably and I still fall
into occasionally is getting into getting to the studio and
getting into that work mode but being a little bit

(09:15):
I don't know if the mechanical is the right way,
but just like working hard, like just I gotta work,
I gotta work, work, work, and just get all like
really but not thinking enough about what I'm doing, Like
I really do have to force myself to stand back
from my work and take a break and kind of

(09:38):
mentally reset and think about what I'm painting. I have
to continually do that because if I don't tell myself to,
I just keep working. So that's that's probably the biggest
hurtle that I have. The discipline of it, the discipline
of stopping, which is I don't know, otter Does that

(09:59):
seem weird? I don't know. The discipline of like stop, Yeah,
the discipline of breathing and stopping and taking that time
that we all need to just to see our work
in a little bit different light, like just to stand,
just to stand ten feet or twenty feet back from

(10:20):
the work is probably one of the things that I
struggle with the most.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
So when you're in the studio, then it's you sent
you sometimes put on some music. Do you always put
on music?

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Is that part of creating the atmosphere most.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Of the time, yes, not all the time. I also
listen to podcasts, so that's another That's another thing that
I will do anything just to just to have a like,
have a little noise in the background is helpful to me.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Do you allow the phone to ring?

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes, I do not. Very seldom do I turn it
completely off. And that that's but that's just because that's
just that that's just my time of life, because it
never fails. I'm always getting some kind of text message
or phone call from my kids and they need to

(11:16):
talk to me about something. So I feel strange if
to just to cut everything off completely doesn't doesn't doesn't
doesn't feel good. I probably would be more nervous if
I did that, And then I can't concentrate on painting
when I'm when I'm worrying, So so yeah, I leave
it on.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well, it's access to mum, you know, especially teenage boys.
I'm sure you welcome them reaching out.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
To you exactly. Yeah, you know, that's yeah, the boundaries
I don't know they but they yeah, I am. I
am happy that they reach out when they when they
need to, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So when you come out of the studio, then, is
that because of time constraints that you've got to go
and cook dinner or is it because you just finished
work in a place where it's right to walk away
from it. You can allow yourself to walk away from it.
But given what you just said, it might not be
that you can give yourself permission to walk away from it.

(12:16):
How does that work?

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I would say it's a little bit of both.
It probably, honestly is a little more. Oh, it's six o'clock.
I should probably go home and figure out what we're
going to eat. Then I'm done. Now. I won't say
that's always the case. Sometimes I work really efficiently during
the day, and I have really I've been on my

(12:40):
feet all day long and I'm just flat out tired
and ready ready to be done. But yeah, there are
I do really try to make an effort to stop
in the evening and get home and at least eat
dinner with the family, see what everybody's been up to

(13:02):
for the day.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Given that you're very structured in going to the studio,
I'm wondering when you say it's work, does it really
feel like work when you're being really creative and it's
coming from your soul and you're in that place, does
it transition from becoming oh, something I've got to go
do and there are expectations of me to actually being

(13:27):
in your own place with your own soul.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
I think it's both. I definitely for me, there are
phases of the art. Like I'll use the example I
have four large Flint Hills Blint Hills, Kansas paintings that
I'm working on for a specific project. Right now, I'm
wrapping them up. I actually just photographed them before before

(13:54):
we got on the podcast, and the first part of it,
the uh they are they are all my idea. So
the first part of it of creating or thinking of
the idea, coming up with the reference material that might
be planair paintings and photos, and a nice combination of

(14:15):
all of that, and and getting started. That that anticipation
of like designing something exciting and getting started, to me,
that is really fun. I really enjoy that part of it.
And then blocking in even I really get I'm still excited.
I think it's towards the last half, the last third

(14:38):
of the painting is where I won't say it always
feels like work, but the last third of the painting
is kind of where if it's going to feel like work,
that's when it happens. It's it's like, Okay, I've just
I've got to get this done. I've got to figure
out how how to finish this painting, and and what
does that mean? What? What? When is it finished? That

(14:59):
that part is is more difficult for me.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
And listening to when it's finished instinctively.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Right, instinctively listening to like, okay, I think it's actually
finished now, Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
You went to put the brush down there. That's so often, right,
who sees the work first? Kim? Do you call in
your husband Channon?

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well, occasionally I do have artist friends who will will
who all asked to look at the work. That happens.
That doesn't happen a lot for me anymore. It used
to happen more. But most of the time, the first
people who see it might be if it's a gallery show,

(15:42):
it might be the gallery manager or owner, somebody who's
involved in the projects. Or if it's a commission, it
could be the person who requested the commission. They might
see it. They might be seen at first. So that's
that's that's more typical for me anymore. But I think

(16:04):
that was a process, Chris, because there was a time
when I didn't trust myself as much, and so I
did show my work to more people, to other artists,
to get advice, and I have a I have what
I would say, I wouldn't say it's a perfect process,
but I have a pretty good process now to evaluate

(16:26):
my work myself, and so I guess I feel more
confident that I can do that myself now.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
I often ask this question Kim of painters here on
the show, because it varies so much. The response to
this is when you feel the most satisfaction, is it
when you complete a piece? You do put that brush
down or when it's validated by an audience.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
I think when I put the brush down, I've been
doing this a while and I have I won't. I
won't say that what other people think of my work
never affects me. I can't. I mean, that just wouldn't
be an honest answer. But but I will say that
I feel more at ease in knowing that I like.

(17:15):
If I feel I did a good job, then I'm
then I'm at ease. And if somebody doesn't like it,
then they just don't like it, and it doesn't bother
me that much. I won't say it doesn't bother me ever,
because I don't think that's accurate. But I'm usually feeling
pretty good if if I feel good about it, and
it's I feel like, okay, this this painting, this, you know,

(17:38):
they're all like our children, right this this this baby
is ready to go out into the world, and and
I feel I feel confident about it. If I'm feeling
good about it, then then to me, it's it's done.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's interesting, that, doesn't it because I experienced the same thing,
you know, when finishing a piece. You know, I would
stand back and I know if I it was what
I want to, and I'm happy with it, but the
validation came afterwards because I was insecure about it, so
I'd have to show it to someone and get their reaction.
And I still do, but that the immediate satisfaction is

(18:14):
in that piece that I've completed, and if I'm okay
with it, then that's because I'm not commercial, and you are,
of course very commercial. And there's different demands when you're
painting for commission, right, There's different expectations and pressure.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Do you cope better now with that pressure? Do you
kind of just take it in your stride, the pressure
that comes with being commissioned and the expectations that comes
with that commission.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, I'm pretty comfortable with it because I have gone
through that commission process so many times already, and they're
not all the same. Of course, they're all a little
bit different, but some of the basic how how to
navigate those commissions I've gotten comfortable with.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Let's go back to your childhood in Kansas, Kim. You know,
we do love to do that because I think it's
so always interesting how how we begin our life, you know,
how we transitioned through life, and how it informs us
as artists, you know, those earlier experiences and being a
farm girl or former farm girl myself, I can relate

(19:26):
to you your farm life. Let's go back there. What
were your early memories of growing up as a farm girl.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's pretty I dealic, really. It's small town nearby. I
grew up on the farm. The farm was a mile
and a half from Gossil, Kansas. It's mid central Kansas,
very farm oriented. Everybody around the area. There's there's a

(19:55):
lot of little farms around the area. So my friends
were similar to me, were growing up in a similar
situation as I was. It was pretty common to feel
so safe that you could I could I jump on
my bike and go ride five or six miles to

(20:15):
go to a friend's house and not think much about it.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
And your mother maybe wouldn't worry too much about you.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
And no, not really. She was a nurse in another
town and so like. After school, so after school I
would go to my grandparents' house. So that was one
of my earlier memories when we were young, When we
were a lot younger and we couldn't stay home by
ourselves after school, we would often walk over to my

(20:45):
grandparents' house and they lived in the country, just across
the road from us, so that wasn't a big deal.
That wasn't a long walk. So we would go and
hang out at their house a lot. When we got
a little bit older, we would stay home after school
if my mom wasn't home yet. My dad was a farmer,

(21:07):
and so that typically meant he was around yet busy,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
He would.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, he was on the property, but oftentimes and sometimes
he was out in a field or and he wasn't
on the property, but there was a lot of coming
and going, and he was around quite a bit. So
if we did really need something, we we could we
could figure out where he was at, or we could
go to my grandparents house.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Now we being you and your your sisters.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, I'm sorry, yes, yeah, the old Trician Jenny. Yes,
I'm the oldest. Trisha is the middle child and Jenny
is the youngest one. And so three girls they my
parents had three girls.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
So were you helping on the farm with their expectations
for you to get down in the dirt yourselves?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yes, what did you do?

Speaker 1 (22:01):
What we had? Chores? Four h is still a big
deal around here. I don't know if it is where
you live, Chris. But it was definitely a big deal
when I grew up. And I say that because in
four h you would have projects. You would have calf.

(22:22):
I had a bucket calf project. I had rabbits for
a while. I'm not even sure how we got into that,
but we did so rabbits and cattle and calves and
not horses, but and then dogs and cats. We had
a lot of dogs and cats, so there was a
non stop need to take care of animals or garden gardening.

(22:48):
We also had a giant garden, so there was there
was a lot of work to do in the garden,
so there was a lot. There was a fair amount
of work that child could handle that we could handle
when we were young.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
How about chickens and rabbits did you have?

Speaker 1 (23:06):
No, we had rabbits. We did not have chicken We
had rabbits. And that was one of my four age projects.
So I had a little like a little rabbit hutch
barn that and so I'd feed them in the morning
before going to school and then feed them when I
got home. Also, again with the bucket calf, you'd have
to go and check on the bucket calf. Oh, I

(23:28):
don't remember, maybe three four times a day.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, yeah, but not livestock in the sense of, you know,
no dairy or beef cattle or and it was many
crops that you were growing.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yes, yes, that's what my dad mostly grew crops, but
he did have cattle, but they were they weren't that close.
They weren't like right on the property, so we weren't
as involved with the cattle that were on the farm
per se. Just the just more of the projects are

(24:06):
our own personal projects.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
So you're spoiling this image of you for our international listeners.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Kim.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
You're thinking, oh, cattle on a on a farm in Kansas,
You've got to be a cowgirl and riding and rounding
them up. But none of that.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
No, I had. I have a friend from my high
school days who had horses and was very big into horses,
and I occasionally got to ride horses on her property
on her farm, but we didn't have any horses ourselves.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Now, you mentioned your mom, Molline, it was the retiredness.
What kind of things were you doing with your mom
growing up? Did you do all the usual one of
three girls? Of course, I'd imagine you were doing domestic
things wouldn't you.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
The gardening, We definitely spent a lot of time in
the garden.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
No cooking, sewing and cooking, not sewing.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
I tried my hand at sewing crib. I was not
very good at it, and then I didn't like it.
Kind of that went away, and you know, my sister's
never met of us sowed. But the garden was a
big deal. We had a very large garden and my
mom is and still to this day, my mom is
very into gardening. So that was something that we shared

(25:21):
with her a lot.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
And cooking everything that you grew.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
And cooking everything that you grew, yep, yep, cooking what
we grew. Those are probably the two main things other
than kind of the you know, the boring, let's do
laundry kind of chores that all did together.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
We typically the farmer in the family, whoever that is
or both. They worked twenty four to seven pretty much.
And your father now retired Lloyd. Was he an active
father in terms of doing other activities off the farm
with you.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, they when they could, they would attend and our
school activities. They were pretty good about attending all the
school activities. So as a younger child that didn't amount
to quite as much it might amount to, like a
musical or something like that. When I was in high school,

(26:19):
all three of us, the daughters, were very active because
we had we came, we had a we were in
a small school, and a small school, you are, you're pretty,
You're in everything. So I was in the band, and
we had a marching band, we had a concert band.

(26:41):
I was in the choir. I ran across country, I
played basketball, I was I went out for track, same
thing with my sisters. So there was NonStop activities and
all kinds of things to attend.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Do you still do any of those things? Like do
you play an instrument now?

Speaker 1 (27:00):
And saying no, I wish I wish I had, I
wish I had hung onto that. I also learned how
to play piano, but I don't do that anymore except,
oh maybe the occasional time I will play piano. I
don't do a lot of that anymore. I do try
to stay active, like running. So that's I guess my
life long. I guess you could say the love, lifelong

(27:23):
love of running was started in my younger days when
I ran track.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, and do you run almost daily now?

Speaker 1 (27:35):
No? I don't, But maybe three times a week.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
And what kind of a child were you? Were you
gravitating towards your aunt in school when you're in grade school?

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, that actually did happen. I don't think. I don't
think I even knew you could be an artist. When
I was younger, I don't think I was aware. We
didn't go to museums. My parents weren't artistic and didn't
weren't into art. But I drew and painted on my

(28:10):
own when I was younger, and then took classes through
four H again a four H art classes and showed
those paintings at the county Fair and the State Fair
and then I and then I took art classes in
high school too, and had a really great art teacher

(28:31):
in high school. So that was that was good.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
What was their name? His name is Brian Stocky, So
shout out to Brian then, because he probably didn't realize
the path he was leading you on.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, he has kept in touch. He watches what I do.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
And what's his reaction now?

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I think he's I think he's pretty excited about it.
I think I don't talk to him too much anymore,
but yeah, yeah, I think he loves the idea that
somebody from a very small town of five hundred people
is doing this kind of thing and following her dreams.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah. What was it then about art for you when
you were very young and picking it up and getting
pleasure out of it, obviously learning a lot at the
same time. What was it that really caught your fascination
and drew you in into something that would last a lifetime?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Wow? I think my earliest memories were that I probably was.
It was something not that not that we sat down
and spent hours doing it, but it was something that
my dad and I had in common. I'm not and
he wasn't an artist, but what he would do is

(29:50):
he would draw usa like a tractor on a piece
of paper, and then I would copy it. So he
would draw it and it was just outlined, outlined pencil, outlines,
and he would draw it and then I would copy it,
and so I think that was Those were some of
my when I was very young. So those were some
of my earliest memories of getting joy out of drawing.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Was it a red tractor or a green tractor? I'm
curious what brand? Agreed John Dea.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, John Dear. Later when we added color and crayons,
you know by the with the crayons that those were
green tractors.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, So when it came to choosing a direction when
you graduated high school, how did that decision come about
as to what you would study?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, that was interesting because again I still did not
put that connection together that oh, I could be a
fine art major. So I was just trying to think
of something, well, what could I do that is somehow creative?
And I I had a home economics class in high school.

(31:16):
One of the things that we did is we we
we worked on some drafting projects where you would draw
a layout for a house or I think I think
it was a house. And I found that fairly fascinating
and that was something that I had researched that you

(31:38):
that was a job you could do is interior design
or graft or interior design. And so that's that's what
I went to k State and that was my major
when I started college is interior interior design. And I
took some blueprint like some drawing classes, some drafting class cusses.

(32:01):
In college, I had a very strict teacher, and not
that that was a bad thing. That was probably a
good thing because if you're making straight lines and you're
measuring everything. You want those to be very accurate, of course,
and I wasn't good at it, Chris, I wasn't good
at making accurate lines, straight accurate measured, accurately measured lines.

(32:22):
I was kind of bad at it. I got a
C minus in that class. And that's when I said, hmmm,
I don't think interior design is for me. And so
then I went to my advisor. You have an advisor
in college. And I went to my advisor and like,
I want to do something creative, but I don't know

(32:44):
what and I'm really not enjoying interior design anymore. And
so they suggested graphic design, and so that's how I
got into graphic design. So I actually got a Bachelor
of Fine Arts with an emphasis in graphic design.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
And you felt more at home with that, And I
felt a.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Lot more at home with that. Yes, yes, yes, now
with that because it was a Bachelor of Fine Arts.
At Case State and probably at other four year universities.
You have to take a lot of art classes. That's
just a requirement. So I had to have a metalsmithing class,

(33:25):
and I had to have a ceramics class, and I
had to have a couple different drawing classes and a
painting class, and all of that had to be done
really almost before I got into any graphic design classes.
And then the graphic design, particularly the computer graphic design

(33:47):
classes were upper level classes, so you took those classes
as a junior and senior. So I guess that was
a really good thing for me because I got to
explore lots of different types of art before I got
into graphic design, which I'm sure helped me decide, like

(34:07):
late later in life, then helped me decide that I
wanted to be a painter, because I really enjoyed my
painting classes.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Were you in very active socially and did you have
lots of friends that you hung out with and parties
and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, yeah, very much. So yeah it was I won't lie.
It was not easy coming from a town of five
hundred and then going to a four year university Manhattan,
Kansas State University. It varies from year to year, but
it's anywhere from oh, maybe on the low end around
twenty thousand to on the high end twenty four twenty

(34:46):
five thousand students.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
So right, So I'm coming from maybe my biggest class
in high school was like twenty people in a class.
To that's probably the smallest class that I have at
the university and the biggest classes I had. Art History
was one of those. It was a very large class.
It was it was in an auditorium with a big

(35:11):
screen and the stage up front, and there was four
or five hundred people in that class. So that that
was a that was a little bit of a shocker.
Coming from a small school, so I had some some hurdles,
but yeah, I was able to navigate them. I was

(35:32):
excited about it. I wanted to go to a big
school to kind of get away from the small the
small town.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
So how did you cope with it then, Kim, Because
it's not easy, is it. You know, were you a
shy student to start off with, you know, slowly gaining confidence?
And did you have good friends around you for peers
for support.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, yeah I was. I probably was a little shy.
I think I was a little shy. Uh, you get
thrown into I just decided to to let the school
partner like choose a choose a dorm mate for me.

(36:14):
So yeah, so I just I met a whole lot
of new people just by being in the dorm and
getting to know other girls in the dorm. It was
an all girl dorm. Really fun. Though everybody was everybody.
I guess maybe I lucked out, but everybody that I met,

(36:36):
or most everybody that I met, were just really friendly,
so I didn't have too much trouble.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Really, what were you listening to? And because you were
a child of the seventies and love would say that
that was a great period to be growing up in.
But by the time you go to college, obviously eighties
the ages. Yeah, so what were you listening to?

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Oh? Boy, so many like everything from the hop culture
of the eighties, like you know, Michael Jackson and Duran
and durand to. I even listened to heavy metal at
the time. I listened to a C. D C. And
things like that, will.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
You Ahead Banger?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
I was not really a headbanger, but I just like
a lot of different types of music. I always have
been that way. I just like to Yeah, I just
like to to listen to a lot of different different
types of music. Hayba dancing, Yes, yeah, yeah, definitely. K
State has a there's an area near the campus called Aggieville,

(37:41):
and that is where the bars and dancing and you
know those kind of things. There's a lot of there's
a lot of that happening there. So yes, so yes,
I frequented the I frequented Aggieville fairly Often we'll just
say that.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
How about politics, because that's when we've become most interested
in college in politics. Was that something that interested you
or you felt you needed to be part of the
gang and be, you know, politically aware.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, you know what, I don't know that I was
really into politics too much when I was in college.
It's just it's been more recently that I have been
interested in following what's going on in politics. Kansas is
a little bit interesting because it's very conservative, but we

(38:39):
have a few, i would say, pockets of more liberal thinking.
And the university towns are those places. So here in
Manhattan people which kind of makes sense if you think
about it, right, like people who are living here are
not always necessarily from Kansas. They're from all over the

(39:04):
world really. And oh and another and another aspect of
Manhattan that's interesting is we have Fort Riley, which is
an army base and it's, oh, what is it only
like eight or ten miles away. It's not very far.
There's a lot of a lot of people who come
here to work at Fort Riley end up living in Manhattan.

(39:28):
So so there's a lot of transient like the people
who come and go and live here for you know,
a couple of years to ten years and then move
on and there're so there's a lot of there's a
lot of people from all over the world that live here.
It's it maybe isn't quite I don't know, as like

(39:50):
Manhattan and Lawrence and maybe Kansas City followed by Kansas City.
There they are, They're probably not as what would I say,
like conservative Kansas that you might think that they are.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
I believe the Cavalry, the US Cavalry was based in
Fort Riley. Does that ring a bell?

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yes, yes, yes, it was at one time.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Tell me where religion fits into your life. How did
it then as a student, as a young person, and
from your family influences and to where you are today?

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Kim, Yeah, I kind of come from an interesting I
would say it's fairly interesting. I grew up Mennonite, not
like old we call it old Mennonite in New Mennonite.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's
it's it was a it was a religion that's actually

(40:47):
pretty I want to say it's not conservative, but very
I would say it's it's somewhat forward thinking. Like I
have a really interesting I had a really interesting experience
in the eighties because I got to go to the

(41:07):
World Mennonite Conference, which was in I think it was
in Saskatchewan that year, because Canada is part of the conference,
and it was I don't know what year it was
in the eighties though, And one of the things that
they were going to talk about was well, how does

(41:29):
like if can a gay or lesbian person be part
of the church. And what's interesting about that is that
they were making decisions about that and being open minded
about hey, people should be able to come to church
and worship, and they were making those decisions. And I
feel like it was I hadn't even graduated yet, so

(41:49):
I feel like it was nineteen eighty four or eighty five,
Like that was the first time I saw a rainbow
button and and and knew what that meant. So I
think that I find that interesting that that was all
because of my religion, because that's how I got to

(42:11):
go to the World conference. Now I'm a Methodist, so
I go to a United Methodist church, and yeah, it's
I feel like they're fairly open minded.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Is religion vital part of your life? Then? Now is
a regular church goer and something that you encourage your
boys to become involved in?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, yeah, we we have gone as a family and
they're kind of at a place right now because they're
in in a college. They're in high school, they're not
college yet, and they have made up their own minds somewhat.
So I I kind of like that. I let that happen,

(43:02):
Like for a while, I made them go. But now
one of them goes to a different church with a
group of friends that he knows from high school, and
the other one goes to church with us some of
the time. But it's not something that I really like.
I feel like we instilled those ideas when they were younger,

(43:24):
and now they can make up their own mind and decide.
And that is kind of how I was raised too.
It wasn't like you have to go. It was more like,
here's the church, and you know, does it feel good
to you? And when I was in youth group in
my church growing up, one of the things we did

(43:44):
is we went to a lot of different churches just
to see how other people worshiped, And I think that
was really interesting because we got to because you because
not everybody does that. You don't just not a lot
of people go and experience a lot of different types
of religion, and so I think that was very formative

(44:05):
for me.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Let's talk about your early influences in art, now, Kim,
and who you were studying. Who you were in your
own time drawn to, not because you were taught to,
but you were instinctively drawn to. And did you attend galleries?
And you mentioned that your parents didn't go to musics

(44:28):
and things like that, but when you could, who were
you drawn to? Particularly? Who were who are your early
influencers as well?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, that didn't really happen until I was in college.
The first time that I went to an art museum
was the Graphic Design. I don't know what the name
of it. It was a group. It was like a
group of kids and you know, like a club. It
was a club at the university and I don't even
remember what it was called. But we had some extracurricular

(44:58):
activities where you would travel and go do some kind
of artistic thing. And we went to the Nelson Museum
in Kansas City because that's one of the close that's
probably the closest large art museum that we have, and
that was the first time I had been in an
art museum. That was a really interesting experience. I really

(45:20):
had no idea what to expect, and it was amazing.
And they the Nelson has some well as one most museums,
it has a wide variety, everything from medieval art to
modern art. But it had it had a fairly has

(45:41):
a fairly good collection of Impressionist paintings, and in particular
one of the large Monet water lily paintings, and that
made a huge impression on me because well because I
just because I've never been to an art museum before,
so it was all exciting. But seeing the Impressionists at

(46:06):
the museum was very influential and probably one of the
first times that I really actually thought about what kind
of art that I'd like to make, and when I
saw their work, it just resonated with me. The work
resonated with me.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
And so if you had to name some names now,
who would be your favorite artists? Would they all be
landscape podists.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Mostly? I do love John Singer Sargent and most people
would although he painted landscapes, but people don't think of
him as a landscape painter. They think of him as
a figurative painter. I would say, right, don't you think, Chris, Yeah, yeah,
But if you I have some books I have. I'm

(46:54):
quite a collector of art books. It's a little bit
of an obsession. And I have a John Singer Sargent
book that mostly deals with his landscapes and and so
those kind of that's that's pretty interesting to me. But
at the time, I would say, probably any of the
common Impressionist painters that you would think of is probably

(47:17):
who were my first influences. So like, definitely Monet, Manate
sort of certain extent, you know, those sorrow that type
of work, Sisly Sisley, Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, so those
were That's that would be the type of work that

(47:38):
I was interested in at the time.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
And let's fast forward then chronologically to painters. I'm looking
for female painters, female artists that you now now because
you know historically this is one of the reasons why
I do this podcast, because we think historically, right, of
those classic painters and Tho's the ones that are influencers

(48:04):
and his work we all will always will admire their
classics for a reason. But then moving through your career,
which you know as a professional artist now spans what
twenty three years I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
You've been twenty five ago. Well, yeah, that's an.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Extensive period of time when you've been exposed to so
many women artists, especially being a book lover too and
studied these women. So who are the ones now that
really pique your interest?

Speaker 1 (48:33):
So are we? So? Are you we talking about artists
that I know? Like? Are female painters that I know?
Is that what you mean?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Not necessarily? No, there these are women well whose work
you admire, but maybe you know, in terms of your
historical memory of association with artists and interest in artists,
you've gone from the classics to today, who would be
the women who would replace themselves? Say?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Hm hmm, I know a lot of artists and and
so like some of the painters that I hang out
with probably would be the ones that I would suggest
are are are today's Monette or Mayne? I? Uh, should
you just want me to name names? Is that? Okay? Okay?

(49:25):
I hang out with Jane Hunt and Cammy Mendlick and
Chula Beauregard, Shanna Hernandez I don't know if you've have
you interviewed any of these? I don't know if you've
interviewed any of these not yet that I yeah, this
this is a I would hope this is a good list.

(49:47):
Cindy Baron, there's there are so many great female and
these are all landscape. Well they're mostly they dabble in
other things like still live and figurative, but for the
most part, I would say this list, I'm that I'm
I'm giving you are all landscape painters, female landscape painters,

(50:07):
and there's some really great female landscape painters out there
these days. Amy Erickson, I think maybe you have have you.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
In Oh yes, Amy has been on the show?

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yes, okay, yeah, I think maybe you've interviewed Amy. Yeah. Yeah.
I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of these
women through different organizations that I've belonged to, and also
plenty air events. So being a part of a taking
taking part of a plan air event is really great

(50:36):
for meeting other artists.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Do you travel much now when you can kim to galleries?
Do you go to Europe for example, and take take
the opportunities there to visit you know any you know
any of the connection. You know, people often get to
the province of course, to walk down the past that
Ben goffin all the great Classics would be, you know social.

(51:00):
I mean, that's kind of a pilgrimage, isn't it. I'm wondering,
you know, if you do go to Europe and two
museums and galleries and if you take the boys.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yes, we had a wonderful opportunity to do that last summer.
I taught my first international workshop in Italy last summer
through our tensity a gal the a friend of mine
Deborah Zamperla, Sorry I forgot her name for a second,

(51:33):
Debra Zamperla. And it started in the Sla which is
outside of Florence, and then we were in Florence and
that is an amazing place. I had never been to
Florence before, so that was my first experience in the
Italian landscape. Painting the Italian landscape and then also being

(51:57):
in the museums in Florence is a is an amazing experience.
And yes, got to take my family got to Shannon
got to join, and uh and the boys got to join.
So they I taught. I taught a nine day workshop
and then they showed up, oh the last day or two.

(52:18):
They flew separately, flew in later after me and and
then we hung out in Italy for another ten or
eleven days and traveled. So that was that was. That
was a trip of a lifetime. But I'm hoping to
do it again. We planned to. I plan to teach

(52:38):
again in Italy, not this summer, but the following summer.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Well, we've mentioned your husband Shannon a few times now. Yeah,
and I know that you met Welch. You were in
college together, and he also is a Kansas boy. So
tell us a little bit about how that relationship evolved.
And you know, did you have to ditch another boyfriend
when he came.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
No, No, we met boys. It almost sounds like a
cliche university story because I was in a sorority, he
was in a fraternity. We met during homecoming. But it
was a little bit interesting in that it was at
the very the tail end of of our university years.

(53:27):
I was let's see, yes, I was a fifth year senior.
He was a fifth year senior, and so it was
at a time when you typically like at that point,
I didn't really want to participate in many of the
homecoming activities because you know, you're older and you're kind
of past that you're not doing it anymore. But we

(53:47):
but we met through during during homecoming week because our
fraternity and sororities were doing homecoming together. So that's that's
very Uh, I don't know, straight out of some university movie.
But it doesn't it seems that way, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Yeah, it looks it sounds like the classic love story. Yeah,
out of that film right now, the love story film. Yeah,
So how long were you dating before you got get married?
I want to hear about the proposal in the wedding.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, a couple of years. We dated a few years.
I would say we both weren't sure it was really
going to last because again, we met like we're like
fifth year seniors the last semester. We're going to graduate
in a month, you know, and so everything's kind of
up in the air. You don't know what's going to happen.

(54:38):
But we kept in touch, and fortunately we both got
jobs that were in Kansas. It didn't our jobs, our
first jobs didn't take us out of state like so
many people. That seems to happen a lot. So we
were here and we just stayed in touch. We didn't
live in the same town, but we were close and

(54:59):
we we stayed in touch, and we saw each other
almost every weekend after we graduated. So yeah, it just
it did work out for us in our case. We
dated for two years and then I think then what Yeah,
then we got engaged, and then I think I think
the wedding was eight or nine months later, in nineteen

(55:22):
ninety four. So I graduated December ninety two and we
got married in ninety four.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
And where did you get married?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
In my hometown church in Console, Kansas. Yeah. Yeah, it's
a big, two story it's quite an interesting church. Really,
it's a big, two story kind of square church in
the country. But it's this big, looming white building mostly

(55:53):
because nothing's around it, right, so it's just out there
by itself. Yeah, an old church. It was the first time,
not the original building now, but the first time it
was erected was eighteen seventy four, and I don't remember that.
I think the current building is from nineteen twenty six.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I think, so you've been married. What I can't do
my mass quickly? Is it around about thirty years?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Isn't it thirty one years? Yeah? We just had our
thirty first anniversary May seven.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Congratulations, Yeah, thank you. And you've been a full time
artist for twenty five of those. At what point did
you realize then that you could sustain yourself, that you
could become a full time professional artist, that this was
going to be something you could make a living of
and be secure enough even though you had a husband,

(56:46):
thought we'd had a family as well. But a big
decision to make that.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Jump, it is. It is a big you know, it
is a big decision, Chris. But I don't want to
say I was lucky. I'm not sure luck has a
lot to do with it. I did work hard, but
it came at a time. I quit my day job,
so to speak, in early like two thousand and one,

(57:10):
two thousand and two, and at that time art was
flying off the walls, and so I had an opportunity
because I was I started selling my art in two galleries,
one two galleries nearby, one in Kansas City, one here
in Manhattan, Kansas. I had two one person shows within

(57:33):
a year and a half of each other, and both
of them, one Soul, I sold like three quarters of
the paintings, and the other one I think I sold
almost all of them, like it was almost a sellout show,
and I wasn't making a ton of money being a
graphic designer. So I actually made more money with the

(57:55):
two art shows within a year than I did my
annual salary that year, and so it was kind.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Of the writing was on the wall.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I just looked at Channon and like, I think I
need to quit my job because I just made more
money doing two art shows than than I did like
a whole year of working as a graphic designer. So
I don't want to say that it was that it's

(58:25):
easy from there on out, that it was just easy
and it wasn't hard, because that's not true. But but
it made the decision easy, the decision to quit my
day job.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
And also the confidence that you needed.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
And the confidence exactly, the confidence was there. Yes, it
was almost a no brainer, like oh, okay, well this
is what I need to do, this is what I
should be doing with my life.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And look where you are now. Yeah, I won multiple awards.
You've have, right, and how many affiliations and shows where
you've been presented across the US, particularly in the Midwest.
You know obviously Kansasata, also some of the other Midwest states,
so what's on your bucket list? One of the big
goals left Kim, So.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
I can't say too much, but one of my goals.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Is to no one's listening, it's just me.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
But one of my big goals is to in general
be more a part of museum shows. And I have
a project I'm working on right now where I'm going
to get some work into a permanent the permanent collection
of a museum. So those are kind of the long
range goals. Is to have my work out there where

(59:45):
I guess. I guess because that way it's more in
the public. At least in my mind. I think that
your your work gets seen by so many people if
you're in a museum. So and I think that's a
very that's a fairly long logical next step for a
lot of artists. Right you have that recognition that you
have work in a permanent museum, is it is a

(01:00:08):
nice forward step? And internationally like international museum, do you have.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Your eyes set on any international goals and where you
might show your work?

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Oh, that's a good question. Honestly, I haven't given that
a lot of thought. More the museum aspect for me
has been more here in the United States. But it
could be that I would You know, I'm not going
to say no, because right, we don't know what I'm saying. Right,
you never say no. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
You could show up anywhere exactly, exactly, could find yourself
touring Europe with your family and find a piece of
your work hanging.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, yeah, why not?

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
How cool would that be?

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
It would be awesome, That would be amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
The boys at all interested in art? Have you influenced them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
A little bit? The younger one, My younger one, Lucas,
he's a sophomore. He has taken some drawing and painting classes,
and now he's taking a graphic design class, So I
would say he has been somewhat influenced. Not that he
likes the same type of art. It's not bad. It's
more just in general he likes. He's actually really into

(01:01:22):
graffiti art, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, he's been
working with he's been doing a lot of He has
markers and some spray paints that he uses and and
has been playing around with a lot of graffiti type art. Posters.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Not on the house, I hope.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
No, Not on the house, not any not on anybody's property. Thankfully,
you won't at least, Yeah, you won't see his work
on a on a train car, I don't think. Yeah.
And then the other one, Colin, he's a junior and
he is really into music, so artistic, but not the

(01:02:04):
type of like not fine art like like I like
I do. But he likes to sing and he plays
the electric guitar and and he's he's really into into, uh,
into music, so artistic but maybe not exactly the same.
But I but that's you know, I think it's fun.
I think it's fun to to watch what they what

(01:02:25):
they might do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Do they think Mom's cool?

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
You know? They? I think they try to figure I
don't know if they think I'm cool or not. I
think they try to figure out if find They often
are like, are you famous?

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I'm like, well, my answer is usually like in a
few small circles, and then they So that's why I
think they always are questioning because they don't really know
what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
And I mean, frankly I don't either, But yeah, yeah,
they I think they think it's kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
How much then of your work today Kim is commissioned,
and how much of your time is that she teaching?
Because you do a lot of workshop, a lot of
the Zoom workshops. Yeah, how do you divide your time?
How do you prioritize?

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
It varies greatly. I a period of time there. It
kind of makes sense that during COVID we all definitely okay,
now we got to get on Zoom and workshops were
by Zoom. I did a lot of that at that time,
and then I hung onto it for a period of time,
and so I have been oh, maybe one or two

(01:03:37):
workshops a year I've been online in addition to maybe
a couple workshops in person. So it varies a lot, Chris,
because sometimes I'll be in a phase where I'm doing
a lot of teaching and then sometimes I'll hang back
and say, Okay, you know what, this is going to
be a priority right now. I'm going to stay in
my studio and work more on my paintings. And so

(01:03:58):
I would say I'm to have been that stage right now
where I've kind of pulled back a little bit from
some of the teaching and I'm really working hard on
projects in my studio. Yeah, it just varies kind of varies,
and some of it's what people would if people reach out,
if organizations reach out to they want me to teach

(01:04:22):
a workshop. Well then that that that influences my decision too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
So you're in a really good place now you can
pick and choose how you spend your time with your aunt.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Yeah, I would say that. Yeah, I would say that
is true. I would say that's true. I have a
routine I show in besides the Midwest, I show in Wyoming.
One of my big galleries is Mountain Trails in Jackson, Wyoming,
And so I would say I sort of split my

(01:04:57):
studio time between the Flint Hills landscape painting and that's
what's popular here in my area of the Midwest, and
the mountain scenes of the Tetons and Yellowstone. So those
are very different. But I find it. I find it challenging.

(01:05:20):
I love the challenge. It's a good challenge. And we
started traveling to Jackson. I think we figured out we've
been doing that about fourteen years now. Interestingly enough, Shannon
and I took our honeymoon in Jackson, Wyoming early May

(01:05:43):
in nineteen ninety four, and that was the first time
we had visited Jackson, Wyoming, and it was very snowy
and cold.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
I'm not sure why we decided that that was a
good place to go for a honeymoon, But that's what
we did. But I would say that that really that
was our first that was that's when our love of
the Teton area started.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
And then it was it was several years later, five six,
seven years later when I really started showing there. But
ever since I've started, I've been with a couple of
different galleries over the years in Jackson. Ever since I
started showing there, we've been traveling there every year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Well, we're going to put a link to your website,
of course. Is there anywhere else you would like people
to visit your work now? And where can they see
it online?

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
My website's probably the best place, but I'm also pretty
active on Instagram. Kim Kasepeer Artist is my Instagram handle,
and I think it's Kim Kseper Fine Art on Facebook.
Those are the two main places.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Well, Kim, I want to thank you so much for
taking time out of your stud udio, away from your
easel to talk to me this week and really get
us up close and personal into your life, your career,
your life story. It's been an interesting journey, by the
sounds of things, and you're in a very good place now.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
I am. Yeah, it feels good. I'm in a good place.
Thank you, Chris. Thanks, I really enjoyed talking to you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
And don't forget that you can find more of this
extended interview on our YouTube channel, so don't forget to
pop over to the Art Podcast on YouTube, where you'll
find Kim and I continuing this conversation briefly, so you
actually get the visual on this podcast as well as
the audio. So join us there and again, thank you
Kim for being my guest this week.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Thank you was a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
And a reminder. You can hear more of this conversation
between Kim and me on our YouTube channel. Just look
for the Art Podcast on YouTube. Subscribe, it's free, and
there you'll find video content some extra bonus content of
conversation between our guests, just to give you the opportunity
to actually see our guests. So don't forget to hop

(01:08:10):
over there to our YouTube channel, and also to follow
us on Instagram at the Art Podcast. Don't forget that's
art with two a's. You can also reach us here
directly via email if you prefer. If you have any
suggestions for guests, then do drop us a line to
The Art Podcast at gmail dot com. And that again

(01:08:30):
is Artworth two a's the Art Podcast at gmail dot com.
My thanks again to my guest this week, Kim Kasebier,
and to you for listening. I'll be back in two
weeks time with another guest from around the world of
visual arts, so I do hope you'll join me then

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