Women's Soccer Review Podcast - Catching Up with Marissa Lordanic of The Far Post Podcast

On this episode of WSR,Jonathan Tannenwald is joined by Marissa Lordanic of The Far Post Podcast.A great show as always, check it out!https://open.spotify.com/show/68yhNrsO5ziT2ezinCZ6vkhttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/womens-soccer-review-podcast/id1490356746

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
The women Fucker Review podcast with DwayneRowlands and Jonathan tannon Wald on a sports
podcasting Welcome to the latest episode ofthe Women's Soccer Review here on the Sports
Podcasting Network. I'm Jonathan Tannenwald ofthe Philadelphia in Choir, and folks,
take a deep breath with sound effectsin the background, even if you want.

(00:30):
For reasons I'll explained in a minute. We're between the end of the
NWSL playoffs, the championship game wonby the Washington Spirit, the first women's
soccer title, professional women's soccer titlefor my hometown in eighteen years since the
Washington Freedom of Mia Hamm and Abbywamback the team that I grew up supporting.

(00:51):
It's been a long time, folks, it's been a long time.
It's been multiple stadiums, multiple generationsof players. But Washington, which is
one of the great soccer cities inthe United States. As I'm sure many
of you know, I don't justsay that because I'm biased. I'm not
the only one who thinks has awomen's soccer championship again, which is very
cool to see. And let ushope the Spirit clean up their coaching staff,

(01:15):
clean up their front office, cleanup their ownership and progress toward being
the cloud nation's capital really wants toget behind and support. On this show,
we are not going to talk aboutin the NWSL quite so directly.
We're going to talk about the USwomen's national team's recent tour of Australia,
and to do that, I amvery happy to welcome in somebody who I've
known for a few years now buthas never been on this show, and

(01:37):
it has long since been time thatwe fixed that. I am not perfectly
coaching grammar wise because I'm recording lateat night and Marissa Ordanic of ESPN and
Albourn Australia is recording in the middleof the day her time. It is
so great to have you on.We've known each other since the twenty nineteen
World Cup was when we met.We will talk about that later because that's

(02:00):
what she and I and some ofher friends in Australia, what we all
do is just sit around and reminiscebecause it's a pandemic and we can't travel
in what else is there to do? Marissa, It's great to have you
on. Thanks for being here.Starke to On. Jonathan, as you
said, we've known each other fora while. I think we've been threatening
to do podcasts and things of thatnature for a while now, so very

(02:23):
very excited that we can now havea chat. And Marissa, as I'm
sure some of you know, asa podcaster in her own right, and
I did say Marissa or Danak ofESPN because the show that she does,
the Far Post Podcast, used tobe independent. It is now an ESPN
property, which is very cool andmakes Marissa instantly very famous. Her co

(02:43):
hosts, some of you, I'msure already follow on Twitter in case you
don't. Sam Lewis of the AustralianBroadcasting Corporation, who has been on this
show before and I'm sure will beagain, because I would love to ask
her someday what it's like to bea colleague of Jim Maxwell. That is
a reference that Marissa gets and nobodyelse will, and I might actually explain

(03:04):
it in a few minutes, becausethere is a link between Australian men's cricket
on Australian women's soccer, and Iwill explain what it is and why it
matters, and I think you allwill find it rather interesting. Sam's one
of the panelists, Anna Harrington ofthe Australian Associated Press, who I also
met two years ago at Women's WorldCup is another one, and Angela Christian

(03:24):
Wilkes is the one of the fourwho is not I have not met yet
hopefully have the chance to someday whenwe can all get back to traveling,
which god willing, will be bythe twenty three World Cup in Australia and
New Zealand, and hopefully somebody willpay to send me down there, because
there's no way I'm going to havethe money to do it myself. Those
of you who are already saving up, I don't blame you. It's going

(03:45):
to be. If you thought Francewas expensive, this one's going to be
for American fans, a big,big, big financial hit. Let's talk
about those two games. First athree nothing US win and then a one
one tie that Australia got the walizerand in the closing moments you were at
both games. And why don't wesimply start at the fact that you were
at both games? Because for usin the States, we've been going to

(04:09):
games for a while now you allhaven't been. You know how cool was
it to get out and back intothe stadium. It was the best,
and particularly for me, so Iam from Melbourne. As you've mentioned,
so these games were up in Sydneyand Newcastle, so the novelty of traveling
into state did not you know,it was still very fresh, very new

(04:29):
and very very exciting. So itwas amazing and we had record crowds there,
so it wasn't just getting to watchfootball in the stadium, it was
getting to watch it with tens ofthousands of people in there enjoying it as
well. The weather was shocking,as it typically is in New South Wales.
That's a little jab for any SydneySliders listening. But as you said,

(04:51):
just the excitement of being able tobook a trip, go watch games,
see people you haven't in a wallbecause Carvett has prevented this kind of
stuff, it really was incredible.Ideally, some bitter results for the Matilda's
wouldn't have gone astray, but Ithink there was a lot to be taken

(05:13):
simply from being able to go watchthe games. For those of you who
are unaware of Australian geography and intercityrivalries, let me tell you, as
someone who grew up in Washington,lives in Philadelphia and have relatives in Boston
that somebody from Melbourne bashing Sydney isabout like the rest of us in the
Northeast bashing New York, which isto say it is always welcome. Apologies

(05:36):
to the New Yorkers on this show, but we've had a lot more Philadelphians
than New Yorkers on this show overtime, as you all figured out.
And the Sydney Melbourne rivalry is NewYork, Philadelphia and New York, Boston,
Seattle, Portland, you name itis. It is fierce in all
things, and it does not stop. And I can guarantee you that Sydney

(05:59):
would love to have a cricket stadiumas big as the MCG and an international
sporting event as prestigious as the AustralianOpen Tennis. They will have to settle
for having hosted the Olympics. Andthat stadium where Kathie Freeman won so famously
with the torch and ran on thetrack is where the US women played in
that first game, and a lotof us were excited, Marissa to see

(06:21):
a not necessarily young in all cases. I think we got called young because
it was in some parts, butit was a new US team for sure.
Mitch Purs is young but has someexperience, so Fia Wheretza had been
on the US team before. Anumber of the players have been around in
the NWSTEL for a little while,and they went down to Sydney and we

(06:44):
all thought they were going to gettested pretty hard, and in a lot
of ways they were. But theAustralians made one big mistake. I think
I don't maybe thought a mistake.I shouldn't call it that they two were
experimenting. I think that's fairer tosay owner Tony Gustas and their manager,
who of course used was Jill Ellis'stop assistant when the US won back to
back World Cups in twenty fifteen andtwenty nineteen, and he started a very

(07:10):
inexperienced center back tending together. Andit took twenty four seconds of the first
game for US fans to start cacklingmaniacally because that is what they do in
situations like that. How much ofa lesson was that, do you think
for this group of Australian players itwas you can't not take something from that,

(07:31):
just not even the goal itself,but the immediacy with which the US
score, Like you can't ignore thatthat's not something that can just kind of
be slipped under the rug. AndGustafson was rightly, you know, questioned,
why did you start a seventeen yearold and a nineteen year old,
one of which is nominally a fullback, the other one who was only played

(07:56):
one season of w League now awomen's football. So it blew out,
it blew out tiny minds. Iwill say there was a bug going through
the Australian camp, so that addeda layer of difficulty, I suppose,
And unfortunately the injury to Alana Kennedymeant she could play very little part in

(08:20):
this entire series, and Claire Polkinghornwas being rested as well. So it
was a real combination of factors thatled us to this center back pairing.
And it it was We've spoken aboutit on our podcast, We've written about
it, We've all kind of dissectedand digested it, and it was just

(08:41):
it did not seem like the rightchoice. But I will say to the
girls, immense credit to Jessica Nashand Courtney Evan. I think they bounced
back from that moment. I thinkthey built themselves back into that game.
I don't think they will be shakenpermanently from what happened, which is really
good news not only for us asAustralian fans, but for their respective careers

(09:05):
as well. So it was toughto watch. I was in the media
box and never before have I feltthe kind of the air go out of
a place so quickly, and obviouslythirty six thousand people in the stands it
fell dead silent, which you can'treally you don't get often with thirty six
thousand people in one place. Soit was a fascinating start to what was

(09:30):
a very interesting game for the Matilda's. It's been really interesting to kind of
weigh up the Australian perspective with theUS perspective on how these friendlies kind of
unraveled and played out. So it'sbeen super super interesting to kind of see
the fallout from both countries and howwe both approached them and what we then

(09:52):
respectively took out of them. I'mcurious, you know, for those of
us who watched it on TV andhad the international pictures and what not.
And I confess I did not watchthe second game live because it kicked off
at four in the morning here andI just wasn't going to do that.
I watched most of the first game, and I watched the highlights. That
game kicked off at eleven PM whereI am, which was more palatable,

(10:18):
but also during a holiday week whenI was home with my parents. You
know when the veteran Americans come swaggeringinto somewhere until they start running out of
gas when they're old. I'm sorry, I'm not supposed to call them old.
I did it again. I'm sorry, not anyway. You know when

(10:39):
when the veteran Americans come in andeverybody sees the US program comes swaggering into
a World Cup or swaggering in theOlympics, we're used to it. We
weren't sure what this group of USplayers was going to be like beyond the
harms, Lavelle sourbruns, the veteranswho were there to teach these newer players

(11:01):
how to be. I'm curious ifyou could sense any of that, all
the arrogance from this new set ofAmerican players, not really barring obviously Lindsay
Horan's comments pre game where she wastalking about loving shutting up the crowds with
an early goal and stuff. Shereally took it upon herself to be like

(11:24):
you know what, you want someoneto boot, I'm your gal basically,
and she's the one, you know. But she played she played the role
to perfection over both games. Thepenalty really miffed people off down here and
even in Newcastle, the people justthey had found their kind of target.
They were just like, I don'tlike her, not a fan of her,

(11:46):
but she's so good that you kindof have to respect the hustle in
a kind of way. But interms of arrogance, I suppose arrogance is
not it. It was more justthat experience, and you kind of spoke
about it at the top in thesense that while this was an inexperienced at
a national team level US squad,I wouldn't exactly call twenty six year old

(12:09):
like Ashley Hatch. Yes, she'sonly made two now four appearances for the
US women's national team, but I'mnot calling her young and inexperience. She's
been around the traps, She's justcome off a NWSL championship, golden boot
for the season and stuff. Socomparing her to then, you know her
direct a direct opponent for most ofthat first half in Sydney, Jessica Natsch,

(12:31):
who I said seventeen years old,has played one season of w League
football. It's it's two very differentpropositions. So I don't know if arrogance
is maybe the right word, butthere was the kind of typical I don't
even know what the word is,but there wasn't anything completely unexpected from the

(12:52):
US in the sense that they werestill clinical, they took their chances.
I know that a lot of peoplehave said it was a very or looked
a little bit disjointed from the USbecause at the end of the day,
it was a lot of new playerskind of coming together for the first time,
but a lot of that was maskedand particularly for the average Australian football

(13:13):
fan who maybe doesn't see a lotof the US, they looked good,
they were scoring and they got theresults. So I think that's that's an
important factor to kind of take intoconsideration. I will say this about Lindsay
Horan. From the second she gotthe armband and the number ten from Carly
Lloyd, I think she wanted toplay the villain for a few minutes here.
I think she really relished that andshe knew that she was going to

(13:39):
take take that on the Urban legends. You hear over time about some of
the conversations behind the scenes about whosays, yeah, I'll do that,
I'll do it today, I'll bethat one. And I think she relished
it a little bit. And asI said a few minutes ago, she
gets she gets pounded in games oftenhas happened in these games too. But

(14:05):
that's a player who you do notyou put the boot into at your own
peril, because she will give itright back to you. As regards this
Australian team, we've talked about centerbacks already. Some number of folks over
here know about Mary Fowler because she'sgotten a lot of hype. And you
and I watched a lot of Frenchfootball, so we watched Morpelier, so
we know about Mortpelier. I've heard. I'm sure a number of folks over

(14:31):
here have also heard, especially thosewho watch the w League, have heard
the name Kyra Cooney Cross. She'sa player who's gotten a lot of hype
in Australia. Who are some ofthe other You can talk about those two
as well if you like, Butwho are some of the other young Matilda's
players who folks up here out toknow about. Yeah, in terms of
kind of the next emerging crop,the two that everyone have kind of hung

(14:56):
their hats on our Fowler and CooneyCross namely Becau. They've been given the
time this year. They've played pivotalroles in the Olympics as well, so
we know that they're not just youngplayers who could show some spark. They've
actually now dished it out in anOlympics, which is, you know,
major tournament football. That's what youwant to need them for. But they've

(15:20):
continued to do it throughout these friendliesand whatnot. So Fowler people cannot speak
highly enough. And it's not justfans, it's not just pundits, it's
her own teammates. Anna did awhole article about it for AAP that basically
she asked a whole bunch of herteammates and everyone was in agreeance that best
finisher in the team Mary Fowler.And you've got Sam Kerr, arguably one

(15:43):
of, if not the best strikersin the world, also saying that this
eighteen year old kid is the bestfinisher in the team bar none. So
I think we're as Australians, we'reall stoked that we have her, that
she's country tied because there was alittle little fight between us and the Republic
of Ireland to get her, gether name and make sure that she was

(16:06):
wearing green and gold, not justgrowen. But yeah, Fowler is just
incredible and the thing is you seeit more and more and what she does
is just phenomenal. And for herto break into this team in the sense
that Australia is very stacked in theforward line, so for her to not
be biding her time, not tojust be kind of making appearances off of

(16:27):
the bench, but for her tobe a genuine starter in amongst the likes
of kur of Razo of Ford.It speaks volumes to her quality. And
the fact that she's only eighteen isjust so exciting because that's at least a
decade's worth of football with her init, so it's so exciting. Kyra
Cooney Cross, on the other hand, very different player. I have to

(16:52):
mention that she won Melbourne victory thew League Championship last season off an Olympico
and it brought me so much joy. Going to cut you off because I
have to, yes, because thelisteners don't know you so well yet that's
fair enough, So nobody, nobodycares more, does more work, tracking,
compiling video highlights of and ensuring thata big deal is made of Olympico

(17:18):
goals anywhere in the world. ThenMarissa Danic, it's it's a passion,
it's I love it so much it'sbecome a bit of a joke. Really,
honestly, I didn't think it wasgoing to become a cool part of
my personality online, but it hasum So we love, we love an
Olympico, have always loved Olympico's.Will say, considering the audience here that

(17:42):
Megan Rappino's Olympico in the bronze medalmatch at the Olympics hurt me very deeply.
I was like, how could somethingI love so much betray me in
this in this moment when I reallyyou know, so that was but that's
unimportant. Krakeney Cross excellent player andwe've learned now that she can really kind

(18:03):
of do a job across the midfield, which is very exciting. She's only
a year or so older than Fowler, but still needs a little bit of
time I reckon to kind of workinto senior women's international footballer football. But
what she can do as an attackingplayer, we know that she has everything

(18:26):
in her kit bag in terms ofa passing rage, in terms of scoring
ability, she's got the works,and then all of that kind of does
translate in a way to being moreof an eight or a six in the
midfield. So she has a reallyimportant role to play, I think in
the future of this team across themidfield. We don't know exactly where,

(18:47):
but I think it's exciting that shecan do things and do things well in
whatever kind of position is needed.Another young player I suppose that we've really
kind of seen a lot of recentlyCotney Nevin, the nineteen year old that
was in the heart of defense inSydney and then retained her spot for the
Newcastle game as well. She's nominallya fullback, so the fact that she's

(19:11):
playing in the heart of the defenseis interesting. But to her immense credit,
she's done really well. She's showna lot of character, she's shown
a lot of good kind of defensiveno how and she has an absolutely cracking
left foot. So we saw alittle bit that she can pass out from
the back, she can pick thatplayer, she can do the long ball,

(19:33):
and it's really exciting that we maypotentially have a question or an answer
rather to this question about who isgoing to partner Alana Kennedy in the center
of the Australian defense, because it'sbeen an issue for years and has yet
to turn up an answer. Sothe fact that Nevin seems to be emerging
as the answer or at least partof that conversation that's worth taking note of,

(19:57):
is very very exciting. It wouldbe remiss of me to not mention
a player who isn't exactly young,she's about twenty three twenty four, but
Clare Wheeler is another player who hasemerged in this kind of last year as
someone who could be really really importantfor the Matilda's. She's one of sam
My podcast Mate's favorite players. Hasa very strong sense of ownership over Claire

(20:22):
Wheeler and Clare Wheeler doing well butagain an excellent six, which is another
area of the Matilda's kind of lineupthat's been a bit interesting. Patche's we
have one excellent player, but unfortunatelyshe's had the absolute the most torrid run
of injuries of late, so wehaven't gotten to see her a lot.

(20:44):
So Claar Wheeler is another one whocould end up being really, really really
important for this Matilda's team in thelong term. But it's exciting that we
have these new players to talk aboutbecause we've had this kind of core group
of players who are still very muchwithin a good age age range and can
hopefully do big things in the nextcouple of years. But to say that

(21:07):
they're now being supported by a youngercast is very exciting looking kind of long
term for the Matilda's. Claria Wheelerplays for Fortuna. Youring folks, you
don't know club wise in Denmark,Courtney Nevan and Kyra Cooney Cross play for
Melbourne Victory. Here in the ILAWomen's a team you know a little about.

(21:30):
I believe I'm familiar with them.I did not wear their kit today,
but you you you watch a lotof their games. As the saying
goes, yes very much, soit helps that they're in the in the
right city. I asked the pointabout about Tuny Cross and Nevin because we
have you know, obviously the pipelineis open now for Australian players to go

(21:55):
to Europe, to England, inparticular to the NWSL every once in a
while, do you think that wewill soon see those two make the jump?
Because I'm the w League more money, you know, commercial money and
ticket revenues, et cetera. Interestkeeps coming into it. They want to

(22:15):
be one of the bigger professional women'sleagues in the world, and they are
by default. Is a little bitof I don't quite mean it that way,
but there's just not so many ofthem that are such big deals at
this point, but the W Leagueis certainly one. The WEE League in
Japan is going to start making thecharge here. We know that. So
there's going to be competition for theseplayers. Do you think that they're going
to end up going abroad here atsome point? Yeah, they have to.

(22:40):
I think I think we all knowthat because for all of the good
things that the I like women's competitionhas and it does, it has so
much good history. It's been anexcellent league for so long. It's been
the kind of development ground for somany excellent players, and it's so important
and does a lot of things right. The fact of the matter is players
can play fourteen games here and that'sjust not enough football. That's not enough

(23:06):
football for anyone. So unfortunately,players need to go abroad if they want
to actually make a serious run atthings in an ideal world, the season
is longer, and not only doesthat mean that we can keep players here
and attract other international talent. ButI think the fact of the matter is

(23:27):
if, for example, you know, an example is Emily van Egmond has
obviously with she's her right, Sowith Orlando, your system confuses me with
the NWS she just left, yes, but I think Orlando retains her rights
and well, yeah, yes,no, that's we can I can go

(23:48):
off on that for a long time. The rule was awful. They took
it from the men's league. Hereabout wright a first refusal on returning the
league. It's outrageous. I've complained. I've complayed it about it on men's
side for us to twenty years,and I've complained about it on the women's
side from the women's league started carpingit. No, it's terrible. But
she's going to go play a Newcastleright, Yes, So we've got her

(24:08):
in Australia for at least a monthobviously. Then the Matilda's will take part
in the Asian Cup early January,so it's a very short term kind of
deal. In an ideal world,we get Emily bay Bank on signing for
Newcastle and there isn't a sense ofoh, she's only playing at Newcastle.

(24:30):
In an ideal world, the wLeague is at a high enough level that
everyone can kind of think to themselves, all right, it's not maybe the
best possible environment for her, butwe know that as Australian football we are
doing everything we possibly can to ensurea high level of football. And this
isn't a knock on the Jets atall. They're a great side, but

(24:52):
there's just so much more that weas Australian football could do to ensure that
every kind of possible option or everykind of avenue is explored in order to
make sure that we are giving thewomen the best possible competition for them to
play in here if that's what theyso happen to do. And it's the
same with Cooney, Cross and Nevin. In an ideal world, they're already

(25:12):
off in Europe and following the likesof Clear Wheelers, about four hours is
in Denmark. There's a lot ofgirls in Sweden. Obviously all the big
name Matilda's are in England and stuff. In an ideal world, they're already
in Europe. But not going toknock them for wanting to stay home for
another season, especially in COVID times, not wanting to travel potentially get stuck

(25:34):
places. All of that jazz.But ideally they're playing in a competition that
at least gets them, you know, twenty games of football that you know,
that changes the whole conversation. Ideally, they're not playing alongside players who
are also juggling other jobs, parttime work, things of that nature.

(25:56):
So my point has always been playersshould be playing in the best leagues available
to them. But I don't thinkthe Australian League is doing enough to ensure
that we are providing the best possibleenvironment that we can for these players.
So I misspoken calling it the wLeague, which I realized changed its name.

(26:18):
That's that's a fun topic of conversationas well, but we won't go
into It's sufficed to say they attemptedto do it in the name of gender
equality and it did not quite work. It's it's sorted itself out now.
But there was a good little whilewhere all of a sudden, the men's
was dropped from the Men's League,and it was like shocked that this has

(26:41):
happened. You know, I followedyour show for a long time, as
you know, and a long wayis back. You gotta took an email
from a listener who asked why therewas an exodus of Australian players from the
nw I sell to England specifically,and whether the whether people in certain positions

(27:07):
of influence in Australian football. Nevermind the players themselves, I'm talking about
other folks benefit perhaps financially from thoseplayers being in England specifically, and the
big brands that are associated with themthat are very popular in England. Why

(27:29):
I asked such a snide question backthen? Gosh, why would I do
that? I'm sure you remember whatIt was almost probably a year and a
half ago at this point that Isent that over. But no, I,
in some amount of fun but alsoin some serious asked the far Post
crew if they'd ponder that on theshow, and it was rightly said no,

(27:52):
it's not really bad. But samwrote about it at one point.
I remember reading about it. There'ssomething about seeing Australians play for Arsenal,
Chelsea west Ham, Manchester City etc. And it was the same when sam
Us went to City and Alex Morganto Spurs, which they made an enormous
amount of money from at Tottenham,even though she played two games. Whatever

(28:15):
it was for them. We gojumping into the mud on this show on
a fairly regular basis. I amoccasionally more conspiratorial than I should be in
and I get told to cool it, and I'm wrong, and I accept
that I'm wrong. But is theresomething to be gained commercially from certain influencers
and so on from the fact thatthey go to these big English teams specifically,

(28:38):
It's it's a question. I can'teven wrapped my head around it,
but I will say so. Theexamples that you use then of Sam Uses
and Alex Morgan's, what's the differencebetween those two and yus Sam Curs and
your Caitlin Ford's for example, Well, all of them are still in the
league, some of them barefoot halfa season, and right most of the

(28:59):
American Toben Heath obviously being an exception, most of them, although she has
this Louisville situation. Most of theAmericans that went over there went there during
the pandemic when the NWSL had stoppedplaying games of consequence and then came back.
But there was a part of thisAustralian actually just happened at the same

(29:22):
time, but it was also alreadystarting and I almost take her out of
the equation in a way because themoney involved with her was on a completely
different scale than any of the restof this. And yes, a number
of us would like to see someof these Australian players come back and play

(29:44):
in the NWSL because they were verygood. There is a corps of people
here in the US who watches theW League and have been complaining on Twitter,
as I'm sure you've seen about howhard it is to find the games
up here because there's no TV dealthere on YouTube is the answer if you
go on the W League website there'ssome information about that. But the other
the flip the part of the questiontoo is we have a complex about English

(30:07):
football in this country too. AsI'm sure you were well aware, you
know, the English Premier League isthe most popular English speaking men's soccer league
in the United States. For folkswho don't know, the Mexican Men's League
is the most popular soccer league overallbecause of the huge Mexican immigrant population of
this country. There is absolutely acomplex here about the brand power of the
English clubs, and they're how theygained commercially from it when American players have

(30:33):
gone over there for some time now, not just the pandemic era before then,
and how the English clubs benefit financiallyand expand their brand influence in Australia
that they already have when Manchester United, when are still when Liverpool went Chelsea
and Men's City on the men's sidego down there and sell out the Melbourne
Cricket Ground. We all know it. The Australians are especially good at telling

(30:56):
the Brits to get out of town, which well again and we're going to
get to the cricket analogy in thenext step because of that. Because of
that, but the Australians are especiallytelling the Brits to get out of town.
They've been doing it for two hundredyears or whatever it is, as
has the US to varying degrees ofsuccess. Is there any of that dynamic

(31:17):
in terms of, hey, we'retrying to build our own league over here
and make it even bigger. Ithink, well, that's the thing.
So the competition here seems resign seemslike too strong a word, but my
brain isn't working fast enough to thinkof another one. So seems resigned to
being a Development League because it's unwillingto put in the work in order to

(31:44):
compete with your WSL types and evento an extent with the NWSL, Like
I know, for all of theproblems, you know, the normal side
hustles, initiative and stuff, forall of the kind of issues with the
NWSL. The end, at theend of the day, you guys are
playing more games than us, andit's more teams. There's just kind of

(32:04):
more and more and more ideally somemore money as well for these for these
players. So I think it goesback to my point about what the women's
league here offers versus what other competitionsoffer. And it's not so much applying
men's narratives to the women's league.It's more about the actual kind of realities

(32:29):
of trying to play women's football inAustralia versus somewhere like England where you've got
a full season, the potential forcup competitions, the potential for European competition,
you have a stable salary, youhave you know, heaps of games,
but not too many. There wasa point in time where you know,

(32:49):
Alana Kennedy was playing full w League, full NWSL plus Matilda's games.
She was racking up I think,the most minutes of any women's footballer in
the world, and it was toa detriment to a lot of these players.
They were burnt out, they weregetting injured. It was a nightmare,
to be honest. So I think, for all the kind of conspiracy

(33:12):
and whatever you like, I thinkultimately the move to England makes sense for
a lot of these players purely asfootballers and what they can get from being
in one city, from not havingto kind of do the juggle of multiple
leagues and just you know, itis a high competition, especially for the

(33:34):
likes of the players that are playingin Europe and going on deep cup runs,
whether that be the County Cup orthe FA Cup. So before we
get to my next question that I'vebeen teasing repeatedly here, we're going to
take a quick commercial break and sellsome ads for the benefit of my producer,
Kevin Laramie up in Montreal. Ofcourse, we'll remind you all that

(33:54):
if you do not subscribe to thesports podcasting networks Patreon, give it a
maybe give it a little of yourmoney. I know how much Kevin and
Dwayne Rawlins appreciate it, especially rightnow with so much going on in the
Canadian soccer world and the potential forme to be paying them a visit next
month for reasons on the men's sidethat I'm sure those of you who follow

(34:16):
American men's soccer have also heard about. We'll take a quick break, we'll
be right back here on the Women'sSoccer Review on the Sports Podcasting Network.
Welcome back to the Women's Soccer Reviewhere on the Sports Podcasting Network. I'm
Jonathan Tannenwald of the Philadelphia Inquirers,so thrilled to be joined by my friend
marissall Or Danneck of ESPN. Beforewe get into the less serious stuff,

(34:39):
I realized I have one other seriousquestion to ask regarding the competition between the
various domestic leagues around the world fortalent and where the A League Women fits
into that, And that is asJapan starts putting what looks like it's going
to be a significant investment into thewheel to not only develop Japanese players,

(35:02):
but go out and get not thetop American or European players, but significant
players from other countries who would liketo have the opportunity to play in Japan.
Do you think that is going tohave an impact on the w League.
And if sohow I do think asthe way league kind of grows and

(35:22):
establishes itself, that yeah, it'sdefinitely going to be a competition, in
competition with the A League Women's becauseagain it's a fully professional league. Japanese
football very good. Why wouldn't youwant to go play with some of the
most technical players in the world.Like it's it's a no brainer. Like

(35:46):
I said, I feel like I'mjust repeating myself, but the A League
women obviously has its advantages and it'sterrible to say, but we do have
the advantage of being a lovely placeto live. The life style factor of
Australia never really goes astray, tobe fair, though Japan also a lovely
place, so it's not that partlyappeal in the US too. From series

(36:10):
exactly. So, I think thepeople who do still want to come to
Australia or are hell bent on goingto an English speaking country specifically, they
will continue to come here. They'llcontinue to find a way. But in
terms of just like maybe on paper, comparing what the A League Women's can
offer versus what the WEE League canoffer, why wouldn't you go to the

(36:31):
fully professional competitions. That seems likea no brainer to me. So I
think again it's more a question ofthe A League Women's catching up and ensuring
that it continues to put its bestfoot for two encourage players to come down
Under. But I do think wewill see more and more players go to

(36:55):
the A League Women's up rather sorrythe Way League. We had a player
in the Way Lee Alex Chittiac,but she's moved back home on a loan
deal to play with Melbourne Victory forthis season. But it's only one season.
It's only been one, not evenone season yet. So I do
think that we are going to seemore of Japan and they are going to

(37:19):
become a bigger player in this kindof market, especially if, as you
said, that money comes rolling inbecause it helps you never see if you
know, is it a bit ofinvestment, and you know you are having
Lynn Williams down there, if onlyfor a short amount of time, which
is going to be pretty neat andgood for her to be able to spend

(37:39):
some time with her boyfriend who shehas not been able to see for quite
a while because of the pandemic.Who was based in Australia, and that
we will start to get to someof the less serious things that Marissa and
I spend a lot of time banteringabout on Twitter, dms and Instagram,
dms and whatnot. And I willbegin with the use of some props on

(38:05):
the television. To my right isa sports team that has given me so
much angst. Two of them,in fact, that have given me so
much angst for some years now,one of them which because it wins,
and the other because it loses tothe teams that went team that beats it
on a regular basis. I havein my right hand a d Can Sun

(38:29):
Special County Test cricket ball, andin my left hand, representing Marissa's home
country, a Kukabarra Turf Red Testcricket ball. The Ashes in men's cricket
are going on right now. Theyare of course on in Australia. For
those of you who don't know,it is the great cricket rivalry between Australia

(38:51):
and England, the second best rivalryin the international cricket behind India and Pakistan,
which is always for all the marbles. The ashes are being played as
not literally played as we record theyare on a lunch break right now,
but they are in the midst ofthe first Test match in Perth, where

(39:12):
England, the team that I supportin the classic bandwagoning fashion, gets crushed
every single time by Australia, orso it feels. And the reason why
Australian men's cricket has anything to dowith Australian women's soccer is because of a

(39:34):
player who we have in fact discussedvery little on this show so far,
one which you're not supposed to mentionon any show again about the NWSL anymore.
And yet we all do it everytime anyway, and that is Samkerk.
And here is why you all knowthat I strongly defend the right of
American women's soccer players to have bigechos. And when the rest of the

(39:59):
world pokes a stick at the Americansand complains about how egotistical and arrogant and
so on they are, those ofus in the US said, would you
please go out and beat them andthen dunk on feel free to dunk on
us when you do. And whenthe Canadian when Canada beat the US and
the Olympics, the Canadians, whomore than any other country in the world
detest the arrogance of American women's soccerplayers. I turned around to my Canadian

(40:22):
friends and said, dunk on me, please let it out, let me
have it. However, there isone country in international women's football where this
is unquestionably not a problem, andit is Australia. Because sporting arrogance is

(40:44):
essential to the Australian culture. Noteam in Australia, in specifically New Zealand.
It's the men's rugby team in Australia, at least for some of us,
no team is more famous than forits arrogance on the men's side than
the national men's cricket team. Ithas been their brand for decades and whenever

(41:07):
they play England, look up thename Shane Warren, folks, for those
of you who have not heard ofit, and you'll quickly find other examples
too. They trash talk the Englishout in the middle of the field from
the start of play in the morninguntil the end of play at night,
and sometimes they get in trouble forit, and sometimes the English media,
the older ones in particular, liketo tut tut them, and every once

(41:29):
in a blue moon and the Englishgo out and beat them. In the
Australians even sometimes admit it when theyget beat But this is the point,
Sam Kerrs arrogant. I don't personallythink that she's the best women's soccer player
in the world. I am stillwaiting for her to win a really big

(41:55):
medal with Australia at a major women'sinternational tournament. As I know you are
too, And to cover your earsfor a minute, I still remember because
I was standing. I was onthe Fox set in Paris when it happened.
They had a few of us overthat night to watch the end.
You know where I'm going too.I think I can tell because I'm looking
at you all. Zoo Australian Norway. Sam Kerr stepped to the spot and

(42:21):
we everybody watching knew as she waswalking up that she was going to miss
it because you could tell. Andshe missed it. But she is arrogant
and I am here for it.And if I were a Chelsea fan,
which everybody knows I'm not, Iwould be especially here for it. What

(42:45):
is the reception like in Australia toSam Kerr and particularly her, But she's
not the only one to the Australianwomen's soccer team having arrogance because arrogance is
such a big part of the Australiansporting culture on the men's side and has
been for solo. See this isreally interesting. I feel like I am

(43:07):
I am getting the outsider's perspective onhow we are viewed. I think it
takes on the men's cricket team spotlike no one likes. No one likes
the men's cricket team, and tobe fair, they don't cover their themselves
in glory. Often there are manyincidents where they simply no good. It's

(43:30):
happened to be in England a lotbecause England's worse, which excuses a lot
of it. It's one of thosethings where it's like you're good on the
field, but at what cost,you know what I mean? Yeah,
it's that separating, like the actualway they kind of present themselves versus the
way they actually go about their particularsport. Hearing you kind of describe her

(43:51):
as arrogant is super fascinating to mebecause I definitely do not think that that's
how folks here would view her,barring maybe the select few that don't like
how she goes about certain things.I think it's we need to mention what
happened the other day where literally,maybe you know, people would have seen

(44:15):
that and been like, oh,I just don't like that about her.
That's just no no good, nogood. So to hear you kind of
describe her as arrogant, I Icertainly don't think of her as arrogant,
I think, but I can,in a way, I can see how
you may be come to that conclusion. I'm thinking that compliment. No,

(44:37):
I know I from chatting to you, I know that you definitely mean it
as a as a compliment. Thekind of main example that I'm thinking of
at the moment, which is maybekind of off topic or not correct,
but just her tweet after the BarcelonaLeon Women's Champions League final where she was
just like and this is meant tobe competitive, and people kind of jumped

(44:59):
on her for that. So that'smaybe like related but not completely connected to
her arrogance. I think she knowsshe's good and she is, but for
me, it doesn't come across asarrogance because, particularly in Australian culture,

(45:21):
and a particularly in Australian sporting culture, we've got tall poppy syndrome where we
cut down people who think a bittoo highly of themselves. So I think
it's it's very natural for a lotof Australian sports people to kind of tow
the line in the sense of,oh, I'm just doing my bit for
the team, or to kind ofcarry that underdog title as well. So

(45:45):
I don't know, it's a weirdone because also it's it's fascinating in the
sense that we don't produce global superstarThere is obviously exceptions, and there's EU
Olympic athletes, which are then awhole other kettle of fish, But in

(46:07):
terms of sports people who actually makea name for themselves on a global scale,
there's not a lot because at theend of the day, we're in
island, a giant island, nowherenear anyone else. So a lot of
our kind of big sports stars playsports that are only played here or only
played in former British colonies, likewe don't have I suppose a lot of

(46:34):
cut through into the global markets.The kind of obvious examples at the moment
that I'm thinking of our Kerr andAsh Party, the tennis player, like
they are genuine global superstars, andI think if you asked any average Australian
they would be like, No,they're lovely girls, they're humble, they
go about there, go about theirrespective sports, and they do good things.

(46:59):
So yeah, I find yeah,the tag of arrogance for I don't
know, maybe I have kur tintedglasses on. I don't know, but
it's not something It's definitely not anadjective I would use to describe her.
And I don't think a lot ofpeople KA would. It's fascinating to hear
that because I am certain that alot of Americans would and do um and

(47:22):
are happy to do so, andare happy to send Christi Muisk avoiding after
her to distractor um not look thisis and I'll that Snyde. I wish
the two of them all the bestof times together. And if by the
time we've posted this show online,Christi Muis has signed for some team in

(47:43):
London, I don't think any ofus would be surprised at this point.
Um maybe maybe not. I don'tknow. I don't actually know whether it's
going to happen. I just wouldn'tbe surprised at this point. Maybe not
Chelsea specifically, but some other teamin London. I just I mean,
when Sam Kerr uttered the five seventechnically, but for the US it was

(48:13):
five most famous words that she's eversaid on an international stage. Kevin,
our producer, might bleat me,I one of the words I'm not allowed
to write in my newspaper. Ihave to put it in brackets and say
stinks instead of the words that sheused. For those of you who are
so new to women soccer that youdon't know what it is. When Australia

(48:37):
beat Brazil at the twenty nineteen WorldCup, Sam Kerr said we're back,
so suck on that one. Andshe received a standing ovation here in the
United States for saying that. Andagain, she was playing over here,
had been playing over here for sometime. We already knew about her goal

(48:57):
scoring, exploits, the back flips, everything else. And I know it
costs a stir in Austria. Andagain my reaction to that, And of
course I'm not surprised to hear professionalwomen's soccer players get treated by domestic media,

(49:19):
fans, etc. As the girlnext door. Alex Morgan has been
treated as the girl next door byAmerican media for a long time. She's
got an enormous ego. She doesn'tpresent it when she goes on good Morning
America and talks politely about the equalpay lawsuits and whatnot. But she's got
an enormous ego. She would notbe Alex Morgan, you know, prolific

(49:42):
goalscorer for the most decorated, talentedand deep of player Pool women's soccer team
on the planet, because you don'tget to the level. I've said this
a million times. You know thisas well as anybody. You don't get
to the level that Alex Morgan,that and that Sam Kurr is at without
crushing people along the way, includingpitch invaders as we have seen in the

(50:07):
last but that you have to bethat way to be a professional athlete.
And it's always interesting, of courseto have outsider's perspectives of America reflected back
on me and here in the UnitedStates, as we did at the start
of the show, and now reflectsome outside perspectives of Australia. Back onto,

(50:32):
back onto you all again. Idon't know as much. I have
not been down there yet. I'dlove to go someday. It's just it's
such a hall for folks in theUS to do. If you've got it,
if you're gonna do it from uphere, you've got to do it
for like two or three weeks todeal with the jet lag, to spend
enough time in Melbourne, enough timein Sydney, go out elsewhere in the
country to see you know, therural and natural areas and all whatnot.

(50:57):
You've got to do a lot ofIt's a lot of time and a lot
of You do it once in yourlife probably and it's a lifetime memory.
But for me who sees part ofmy how my lens toward Australia is through
international sport and through cricket in particular, a little through rugby, but less
so a little through Aussie Rules footballwhere they're playing of arrogance in that sport.

(51:22):
Well, we're having READI newspapers enoughover time, I would have thought
that a little arrogance and women's soccerwould be Yeah, this is part of
who we are now. If theywere to beat England in a major international
tournament, maybe that would really bewhen it comes out among the populace,
in the media and and whatnot,because that's how you really get everybody down

(51:45):
there rile up well, but winagainst Team JB and the Olympics client of
actors. Yeah, as that sortof thing, I think the issue here
is or where we're coming at.Maybe like the point of contention is just
how we label her abam and maybethen the connotations associated with certain words,
So like you use arrogance as acompliment, and I think a lot of

(52:07):
people would because they like that bravado, they like that cockiness, they think
it's good. Where I think thepoint of contention here in Australia would be
that arrogance is bad negative You donot say that in a complimentary way to
someone, where we would look atit as the concept of the battler of

(52:28):
you know, again the underdog mentalityof the little guy beating up on the
big guy, an element of Larachanismas well, I suppose, of just
being very kind of brash but casual, but again coming from as it's confidence
in oneself and a kind of I'msaying a lot of words, but I'm

(52:52):
not saying a lot, you knowwhat I mean, it's yeah. So
her comment after the Brazil game here, I think for the most part,
barring some some older folks who maybetook offense to it, but the general
kind of consensus here was like heck, yeah, you tell her it was
but not perceived as arrogance. Itwas she told them what to do and

(53:19):
cast aside anyone who doubted them anythinglike that. I really think the point
of contention comes from how we individuallyinterpret the word arrogance. We would never
call her arrogant here, but wewould if you said the definition without the
word I reckon, we would probablyagree on it. But the actual men
word itself is where it's there's thedisconnect. Oh, It's very interesting and

(53:45):
a subject for a continued discussion downthe road, especially when when the World
Cup comes around in twenty twenty three, because part of this is also is
how you market female athletes and makingthem into the kind of big stars that
the Matilda's are now and curR inparticular getting to come back to Australia and

(54:06):
play in front of a big crowdand be, what we would say in
capital letters, a big deal,you know. And I know how much
work was put in. I knowhow much work Sam Kurrs put in for
a long time in her career tomake that happen, and it is.
It was. It was great evenfor us who were worried about what was

(54:27):
going to happen to the US team, But it was just great to see
it be a big deal in thestands in in the newspapers, such as
anybody reads newspapers anymore, said theguy who still rise for one um etc.
And so on. And I would, I would certainly welcome to talk
about this. It's look from uphere, but I'm sure it was down
there. It was a big deal. Yeah it was, and it was

(54:51):
build as such like it was.There was a lot of interest generated and
it has continued to bubble along becauseyou know, things like that, things
like this don't happen here, youknow what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
it's it's not something we it's notsomething we get every day with COVID.

(55:16):
This was only the team's second timeplaying back in Australia in about eighteen
months, and it was billed asthe dress rehearsal for the World Cup.
Come break this record with us forthe attendance, Come come see this team,
Come let's do it. Because alsothe COVID restrictions here had kind of

(55:37):
eased a little bit which allowed usto have even more people in the stadium.
So these the last kind of twoseries of friendlies of the Matilda's have
played against Brazil and against the UShave been billed as big deals because they
have been. They've been really important. Obviously the Brazil friendlies benefit from the

(56:00):
amazing rivalry between those the teams andwhatever, but the US as well.
You never, you never turned downthe opportunity to say the US here,
They don't they don't come here.No, they don't go anywhere really,
let's be honest there. So itwas a it was a big deal and
it was important. They're getting betterat going on the road. They try

(56:22):
to do one big road trip ayear now. Outside of major tournament,
they do play a lot of homegames and people, I think the core
fandaise, the people who really treatedas a sports team are happy to see
them go on the road and reallyget tested in Europe. In Australia,
it was the first time in twentyone years that they'd been to Australia.

(56:43):
It was obviously in preparation for forthe World Cup in twenty three. I
think there was also some hey,we are two national fays that get along
on a lot of things, andwe're going to help you get to twenty
three World Cup. If you mightput in a good word about a few

(57:04):
other things that we're trying to doup here. The twenty six Men's World
Cup was one of them. Thetwenty seven or more likely probably thirty one,
but twenty seven would be pretty cooltoo. Women's World Cup being here
in the US might be a littlesomething that got talked about, and you

(57:24):
and I both know that because weknow some of the people who were in
those rooms, and I think itwas all forever. It was for the
betterment of everybody that was happening.I'm glad it did. I'm glad that
the protocols were able to be workedout in the way that they were to
make it happen, because we didn'tWe didn't know until almost the start of

(57:45):
November that it was actually going tocome off. I was at Carli Lloyd's
national team finale in October and theyweren't one hundred They were optimistic that it
was going to happen, but theyweren't one hundred percent certain until end of
October early November that it was goingto happens. So I'm glad it did.
And now we are going to takea very dramatic wild left turn on

(58:07):
this show because it is just aboutthe holiday season. It is finally after
the NWSL drafts are over going tobe the time of year and we can
finally slow down and breathe a littlebit. And if you're wondering what the
hell we're about to talk about,We're gonna do a little reminiscing about twenty
nineteen Women's World Cup, because thatis where I first met Marissa and Anna

(58:30):
Harrington and a number of their pastand present colleagues who may or may not
end up listening to this show,including two of the greatest people I have
ever met in international soccer, Annao'dog and Moya Dodd, who have done
so very much for Australian women's soccerfor such a long time. And Marissa

(58:52):
and I are going to talk aboutour mutual interests in French culture and the
city where we may which was Grenoblefor one of what is still one of
my favorite women's soccer games I haveever been to, admittedly not because of
Australia and the Australian team. Iwas there partly to cover. That was

(59:15):
when the greatly missed website Pro SoccerUSA was still alive and made its greatest
journalistic accomplishment, which was coverage ofthat World Cup on every level, not
just the United States, but playersfrom teams all over the tournament who were
in the NWSL, and players whoAmerican fans wanted to read about, not

(59:37):
just on the US team and theteams that were playing. So I was
over there for two weeks helping withPro Soccer USA's coverage, and I went
down to Grenoble for Australia Jamaica andwas rewarded with just the privilege of a
lifetime of seeing Jamaica score its firstgoal of Women's World Cup. It remains

(59:58):
one of the great things I've everseen person in international soccer. And you
could have you could have powered theaerial tram that runs across the USAID however
in the middle of downtown from theelectricity and that stadium with that ball went
in the net. Obviously, Australiawent on to win four to one,
so it was fine, you know, for you, Marissa and everybody else
was who was there to cover Australia. But what Marissa and I have done

(01:00:22):
on just about him every month ortwo since then is post a raft of
photos on Instagram of our memories ofbeing there, because it's just the best
country. With all due respect toAustralia. It's just the best country to
go visit, isn't it. Ilove France. I could talk about France

(01:00:42):
all the time. My friends regularlymake fun of me for bringing up France,
and then I like to flip myhair and be like, I don't
know if you guys know, butI went to France once and they're like,
no, you never mentioned it ever. So that's become a long running
jokes. Lots of people love totease me about it. But it was

(01:01:06):
the best. It was just thebest trip. I will admit I have
a France tattoo that I got afterthe World Cup. It was about a
year after the World Cup because ofCOVID and whatnot, but I did because
it was just the best trip asa whole, and the best trip for
me. It was my first timegoing overseas, so I had never know

(01:01:28):
that I'd never been overseas before,and I decided, I'm going to go
to a World Cup and it's gonnabe great. And I got to do
so many cool things as a fan, and then so many cool things as
someone who was still very very newand very very inexperienced in a journalism sense.
So it was just the absolute besttrip, and I will take any

(01:01:50):
in every opportunity to talk about it. So I'm stoked that we're going to
get into it. I was supposedto go at the end of this month,
as folks here no, I wasgoing to do a week in London
and a week in Paris. Seesome games, see a lot of friends,
eat the very best food on theplanet. I mean, it just
is. You cannot. You cannotif there is a bad meal in France.

(01:02:13):
I mean certainly no American tourist whowould go there would think of it.
But I wish for you to somedaycome to America and experience a supermarket
chain here that we have called TraderJoe's, which has the best cheap cheese
aisle of any supermarket chain in thecountry. So you can get all manner

(01:02:35):
of great French cheeses, and Ion top of it, if I want
to get the really expensive ones,I can do that too, because living
on the East coast of the US, there are specialty stores, or you
know New York. The legendary Murray'sCheese is in New York is an hour
away. If I really want tospend an exorbitant amount of money on cheese,
but usually with Trader Joe's, Idon't have to because I can get

(01:02:55):
all the good stuff for like athird of the price from them. And
there are a couple of really goodFrench restaurants near where I live here.
And it's for people who didn't getto go. For you as an Australian
being there that day, seeing somuch green and gold around town, and

(01:03:19):
how much went to Montpellier, whichis another one of my favorite cities in
France, and the other cities wherewhere Australia played in that tournament. What
was that like? It was soin the lead up to going to the
World Cup, I was very nervousbecause of who I am as a person,
but so many people said, no, other Aussies will be there and
you will be fine, and I'llnever forget we So our first game was

(01:03:43):
against Italy in Valencian and so I'vecaught the bus from Leo to Valencian and
We've walked into the center of thisvery sleepy town and all of a sudden
you just see green and gold jerseys. And so those who do remember the
twenty nineteen Matilda's kids, they werenot subtle, they were not they were

(01:04:06):
you could not miss them. Andwe were all there in these incredibly loud
yellow and green shirts, and youwould walk down the street and there would
just be that not of acknowledgement orthe smile of like, we're here on
the other side of the world forthe same reason, and that's incredible.
So the walk into the stadium onthat day was just one of the most

(01:04:30):
unbelievable things. You walk into thestadium, the stadium up, they're excellent,
very very good, and just seeingagain those pockets of green and gold,
it's it's not something you figure andit does make you kind of think
about how, you know, thelargeness of the world and the smallness of
it that we were all there,literally on the other side of the world

(01:04:53):
to watch a team kick a ballaround, Like if we're going to go
real surface level what we're doing overthere, We've t a hundreds of kilometers
to go see some people kick aball around. And it was the best.
Obviously, that result was not mypersonal favorite. We lost to one.

(01:05:14):
I saw some people after the gameand one guy was like, you
look really sad, you look reallydejected, and I'm like, yeah,
because I've just spent like six months, everyone hyping me up, saying,
you go into a World Cup,You're gonna have the best time, You're
gonna have so much fun. Noone reminded me that we could actually lose
games and it would actually really hurtbecause it's a major tournament and all of
these losses mean things. But no, just being surrounded by other people who

(01:05:39):
cared that much about women's football tofork out the money to go to France
unbelievable, the Dame Montpellier, theMiracle of Montpellier as we like to call
it, where we've come back againstBrazil. That was an unbelievable game.
That was one of my That isone of my favorite ever games that I've
ever attended, that I've ever watched. It was everything that you wanted in

(01:06:02):
a Matilda's game, or everything thatyou expected from them, from you know,
the comeback win, to the opposition, to just the way everything kind
of happened. I maintain it's theonly good use of VR in the history
of football. Otherwise I don't wanta bar of it. But they can
they can keep that one specific useof VR. But yeah, just France

(01:06:26):
was so incredible, and I thinkwith hindsight now it becomes even more incredible
considering the pandemic and how distant thingslike that have become and how far away
they feel, and how you know, twenty three is not that far away,
But there's still an element of arewe actually going to get to do

(01:06:46):
this? I really really hope thateveryone can come here and hang out and
watch some excellent football and whatnot.But yeah, France has kind of almost
taken on a mythical sort of glare, not only from being an excellent tournament
at the time, but just fromwhat followed it and made it seem even
bigger and grander than maybe at AvonWolves. It was one of the last

(01:07:11):
major international sports events they had thatmuch global travel before the pandemic started,
and some folks you know, somelisteners know, for those who don't,
I only did the middle two weeksof the tournament because of a story about
my job situation at the time thatI will tell someday after either I have

(01:07:36):
retired or everybody else on the planeis dead or something. I don't know.
I can't tell it now for obviousreasons, because it pertains to my
current employer. I'm very I hadwanted for ever since the nineteen ninety eight
Men's World Cup to go see agame at Montpellier at that stadium, because

(01:07:57):
it's a completely different stadium than anythingwe're used to in art actually then anything
we're used to in the United States. It's got three covered stands all nineteen
sixties, are a concrete and onegiant stand on one side that goes about
four levels up and even for FrenchLeague League on men's games, the top
three tiers of it are tarped offbecause the stadium so old. I don't

(01:08:21):
I don't know whether they might untarpthem once, like the last game they
ever played there, because I knowthey're talking about building a new stadium there.
But I got to see Italy Chinain that building, which was Italy's
first winning a Women's World Cup knockoutround game. I believe it was either
that or their first time going toa quarterfinal, and possibly both I forget
which, but that was loads offun. We've had Daniello Porcelli, who's,

(01:08:44):
of course the famous photographer based inSwitzerland who's half Italian half Swiss.
She's been on this show. We'vereminisced about it. Before you can go
back in the show's archives. Listento that. When I was planning out
trying to get over there, you'dsaid to me, you're going to cover
the US team the whole time.Fine, I will cover the US team
the whole time. Give me onegame to go to outside of my Like

(01:09:08):
if I'm in Paris for five daysand there's a game in Paris but night,
let me go. Sure, letme go out of the way of
the US beat for one game.And I said this month before the tournament,
it was Australia Brazil because US fansknow so many players on both sides
in that game, not just SamKerr and Marta and Debinia, but so

(01:09:30):
many others. And for Niga two'sinternational career, as we know, just
came to an aunt um. Butyou mentioned, did you you got to
go to some of the US games? Right my memory right on that you
did. I didn't Sam. Ithink Sam went to a couple She went
to the game against France from amemory I couldn't get to. Anno Dong

(01:09:51):
was at that and we she was. I'm sure some of you know who
Anna Dong is. She used tobe a journalist. She's now in a
official with the Australian FA and theWorld Cup organizing effort, and she was
a fiefa suit, literally had theFIFA suit at the World Cup in twenty

(01:10:11):
nineteen when we gave her no endof grief for it, but she gladly
took because you understand, how understoodhow crazy it was. She was at
USA France. I was at USAFrance. I was at USA Chile as
well. A number of listeners know, and Marissa, you know. I've
been a PSG fan for twenty plusyears. The parkt ap Plance is my
favorite currently standing stadium in Europe.Highburry was the original Highburry One was the

(01:10:35):
other one. To see my countryplay in my favorite stadium in Europe.
I mean USA France was the gameof the tournament, one of the truly
greatest games in international women's soccer history. We all do that. The thing

(01:10:55):
about USA Chile. I flew toParis two days before it. In fact,
I landed at De Gaul, droppedmy stuff at my hotel and went
straight into the city till the daybefore press conference. We all know.
Everybody who listens to the show,no matter where in the world you're listening
from, even if you're listening,we have one listener in Japan, Dan

(01:11:16):
Oilowitz at the Japan Times, Soyou know, because he's been on your
show before, I wanted to makesure to give him a shout out somewhere
here because he actually just came backto the States for vacation right now.
I'm going to see him in aweek and a half, which I'm really
he's from Philly. I don't knowif you know that I'm gonna see him.
He's going to be home in aweek and a half and a bunch
of us are gonna have a bigparty with him. He's bringing us all

(01:11:36):
lots of souvenirs and Jay League soccerteam jerseys and stuff like that. We're
all used to US fans traveling inenormous hoards for men's and women's tournaments,
for men's and women's national game teamgames. Obviously for the twenty fifteen World
Cup, which was in Canada,which made it very easy to do to

(01:11:58):
be in Paris to see I'm sureyou saw the videos of the American Outlaws
marching through the streets to be inParis, to see so many of my
friends over there from all over theUnited States. To be sitting in the
Parc des Plants with forty plus thousandother American soccer fans who had written their

(01:12:25):
summer vacation schedules or it was Father'sDay. Actually in the US Father's Day,
it was a Sunday game. Somany people who I know, even
casual soccer fans, had planned theirsummer vacations around being in Paris that weekend.
It's one thing to do in Canada, it's one thing to travel across
the United States. But I knewand everybody knew, that was really exceptional

(01:12:53):
to see that, and to notto almost forget for a moment that you
were thousands of miles from home atthe most expensive time of the year ago
to France, which it is.It was really extraordinary. And I saw
Australia jerseys all over the country everywhereI went, even on days when when

(01:13:14):
Australia wasn't playing, as US fanswould too. I saw US fans who
I knew from Twitter in Grenoble onthe day of the Australia Jamaica game.
They had gone to it. Bothof our countries have travel baked into US
as isolationists, as we can alsobe. Both of our countries, especially
among our soccer fans have travel bakedinto us. It is something that I

(01:13:40):
dearly miss. And I know youand all your colleagues down there due too,
And one of these years Australia willplay over here and you all will
get to come over and we willall show you around and have a grand
old time. Anything that I shouldhave mentioned and forgot, or what else
that you want to close out withor to out your own stuff or whatever

(01:14:00):
you want to do. Oh god, no, I think we've covered a
heap, a long heap. ButI will say, just to your point
about the excitement of you know,seeing the US in Paris, I think
for Australia it's kind of the oppositein regards to the twenty three World Cup,
just that everyone's going to come here. Yeah, and that is such

(01:14:24):
a novelty because no one comes here. We're so far away. We know
we're so far away. So thefact that people will have to come here,
that is the most exciting thing.That is where I cannot wait to
see. You know, ideally,if we're talking about you know, Stadium
Australia or in Sydney, eighty thousandpeople in this stand watching women's football in

(01:14:45):
Australia. That moment is going toabsolutely blow my mind and I cannot wait
for it. As much as theexcitement of being overseas and being far from
home is incredible, and I canonly imagine how amazing it was for you
in Paris that night, that justbecause of where we are and who we

(01:15:05):
are, to have everyone here isgoing to be just unbelievable to know that
everyone made that trip and came downand supported women's football in that way.
So I cannot wait for that momentof just absolutely full stands ideally with as

(01:15:26):
many different jerseys as you can possiblyimagine, and just we're all there watching
women's football. I cannot wait forit. And if you if you see
a Philadelphia Union had in the pressbox, it will probably belong to Dan
Orlwitz he where is it ever?He wore it? He NBC's NBC's sideline

(01:15:47):
reporter for the women's football the Olympics, who also is the sideline reporter for
the national NWSL broadcasts up here atMarissa Pillip is from if you're listening,
Marissa, I'm going to this isa You're Big. She was on the
show a while back, but umshe currently lives about a mile and a
half for me, and she's movingout to the suburbs. I almost called

(01:16:10):
her a trader. I'm not gonnado it. She knows that she's from
here, she knows she knows allthat dynamic. Look, this has been
so much fun. Thank you forthe time it was. We've been on
for a while. I realized thisis a long show, but it's it's
the holiday season. As I said, we've got a little time. We
wanted to just sit back and enjoyit and chat for a while and have

(01:16:32):
some fun because God knows, it'sgonna be a long time before we see
each other in person again, whichis a shame. I wish you could.
I wish you all could come uphere for a little while and see
the place. But we'll probably haveto wait until twenty three and all.
I don't even want to think abouthow much. But it's postopher us to

(01:16:54):
go. But but I know howmany people are gonna do it, and
it's gonna be a lot of people, probably even more people than I thought
it was going to be in twentynineteen. But it's going to be quite
a show. Marissa Lordaneck is onTwitter. If I may say so at
Marissa lordaneck am you will. You'vegot the show on your phone. You

(01:17:16):
can see how her name is spelled. You figure out what her Twitter handle
is. The show is The FarThe Far Post pod on Twitter and you
can go to the rest from thereand you can pick a side between Sydney
and Melbourne. But it's better beMelbourne. How's that for an answer?

(01:17:36):
Well, but support it for MarissaLordonic of ESPN. This is Jonathan Tannenwall
of the Philadelphia and Choir. Thankyou all so much for taking the time
and for listening to this latest episodeof the Women's Soccer Review here on the
Sports Podcasting Network