November 8, 2021 • 43 mins
**This episode was recorded before Sunday's game.**On this episode,Jonathan Tannenwald of The Philadelphia Inquirer is joined by Lisa Roman of CBS Sports!A great show as always, check it out!https://open.spotify.com/show/68yhNrsO5ziT2ezinCZ6vkhttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/womens-soccer-review-podcast/id1490356746
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Women Fucker Review podcast with I'm Jonathantan and Walled called a sports podcasting networking.
Welcome to the latest episode of theWomen's Soccer Review here on the Sports
Podcasting Network. I'm Jonathan Tannenwald ofThe Philadelphia Inquiry. Yes, it has
again been two months since the lastshow. I realized that I thank you
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all for your patients and understanding.I especially thank Kevin Laramy, my producer
in Montreal, Dwayne Rawlins, mycolleague up in Toronto. I thank them
very much for their understanding, theirflexibility. They are patients. They're allowing
me to do this show around myreal job, which, as you all
have seen, I'm sure is mademe very busy. Of late. I
was at Carle Lloyd's last national teamgame in Saint Paul, Minnesota, was
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at her last club game with Gothamthis past weekend. I'm doing a million
things in the men's soccer world,and our guest on the show today is
really just about as busy as Iam, and I think we were actually
going to meet in person for thefirst time potentially, except that on the
day when she gets ends up workinga Philadelphia Union game. Lisa Roman,
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where else do I end up atRed Bull Areena and you're at super Bow
Park. Welcome to the show.It's great to have you on. It
is so great to be here,Jonathan, thank you for having me.
Yeah. I understand the grind andthe busy days that come out of it
eighties championship playoff season in the worldof fall sports and MLS soccer and NWSL,
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and hey, when the game's called, we answer, right, Oh,
that's absolutely true. And you getto actually broadcast them, which I
just get to sit there and writeabout them. But look, I will
say this very quickly about the seasonbeing busy. I do want to say
this on the show and get itout of the way, because this show
is to preview the NWSL playoffs,and I'm not going to be able to
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watch either game at all, andpossibly if I like, bring an iPad
with me. I'm going to bea Yankee Stadium on Sunday for the Philadelphia
Union's regular season finale. If Iwas the NWSL, I don't think I
would have put my playoff games upagainst decision Day in MLS at the exact
same hour. I understand they mightnot have had a choice, Lisa,
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I will spare you having to getin any trouble by commenting on that since
it wasn't up to you. ButI just it's not how I would have
done it. The TV time onCBS Sports Network, I'm sure is what
they were able to get. It'snot how I would have done it,
because you're competing for the same audience. There's my little soapbox bit right out
of the gate, having not donea show for two months, and that's
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you know, here I go rightjust turning on the fire blaster right away,
right as we get going. Theonly other thing I will say about
having got done a show in twomonths is this, and then we'll get
into the meat of the show.I wanted, I still want, hope
to do a show on Toben Heathat Arsenal. Had been working on something
with some colleagues I have in Londonand they fell apart, which is why
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it ended up being too months sincethe last show. This one did not
have to stretch the proverbial tin cannonstring across the Atlantic Ocean. This one
I only had to go across townhere in Philadelphia, which is pretty cool
for folks who don't know. Lisais based here in Philly. I am
based here. Laurie Lindsay is basedhere. Marissa Pilla is based here.
Those of you who watch the PremierLeague or who watch MLS will have heard
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the name Danny Higginbotham. He's basedhere. This little parochial backwater Lisa where
you grow up, all of asudden, has all these soccer people in
it. What are we doing corruptingthe people of Philadelphia with the World's game.
It's a terrible thing, right,I mean, it's so fantastic that
we have a little a crew anda little neighborhood of soccer people right here
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in Philadelphia, and as big asthe city is and as small as it
can be, sometimes I still don'trun into you guys enough on the street
or walking around or things like that. I'm sure we'll make it happen though.
Right the Italian market, we'll hitit up together. We'll get some
good grub and find some It's absolutelytrue. And Kate Scott too. I
should add who's the new game.Who's done some US women's national team games
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for Fox Sports. And if youdon't know who she is, folks,
I would encourage you to look herup, look her reels, up now,
because you're gonna be seeing a lotmore of her on Fox in the
years to come. And if that'stipping my hand a little bit about some
things I've heard, I think I'mallowed to do that. Um. No,
you're absolutely right about the Italian market. I go walking down there on
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most Saturday and Sunday mornings thinking thatI'm going to run into Marissa or Laurie
or Jim Curtin, who lives notall that far from there, and then
I realize, of course they're allout of town. Every time that I
try to do that, Marissa's atgames. You and Laurie are at just
a world linkedown in Orlando calling gamesoff monitors, And I'm are you able
to tell the people whether you're gonnabe calling games in the playoffs? I
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will not be calling games in theplayoffs. Um, I'm allowed to spell
those beans. It's a little hardfor me to get there and do the
travel, and when I get toFlorida to called games, I like to
do a few at a time.And because of the playoffs and the game's
being staggered just so yeah, withonly an hour and a half difference between
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kickoff times, you can't do bothgames. You can't do multiple games,
so just not this time around.For the playoffs. I'll still be covering
them though for CBS and for AttackingThird that podcast there we'll do. We
do pre games and post games,will cover it all, so I will
be tuned in. And Jonathan,I know you said you're gonna be at
Yankee Stadium covering the Union game.They have this thing called Wi Fi.
You can bring your iPad. I'mgonna try. I'm gonna try to.
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It's the I'm gonna try. Ibelieve me. Um. And yes,
you mentioned the Attacking Third. That'syour podcast for CBS with Sandra Herrero who's
been on the show and number oftimes before. Um, do you go
check that out? And I knowthat CBS is cooking up a whole lot
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of things even after the NWSL seasonis over with women's soccer. What they
are, well, you'll just haveto stay too that much. That much
I cannot yet say on this airin public, or else I would get
in trouble. We are going todiscuss the NWSL playoffs. I think we
should just do the easy thing,which is take the games in chronological order.
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Take the two first round games,and then take the two second round
games. And so we will startwith the Chicago Red Stars, the fourth
seed, hosting Gotham FC, thefifth seed, three o'clock Eastern on Sunday.
It is the CBS Sports Network TVgame out of the two on Sunday.
It is Carly Lloyd returning to theclub where she played her first professional
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game in two thousand and nine.And as storylines go, those of us
who fall for narratives because that's whatwe do in the media, we're bad
like that. It's certainly a narrative. Is this possibility that Carly now Every
game that Carly Lloyd now plays obviouslycould be the last one she ever plays.
Well, the last one she everplays could be against the first team
that she ever plays for she everplayed for. There is so much to
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talk about with both of these teams, but I think we have to talk
with about Carlie first, and notjust not just because she's going to be
the most famous person on the field. We know that, but she does
have this reputation of scoring really biggoals in really big games. And wouldn't
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it be something if Gotham is ableto go on a run here and she's
right in the middle of it.I think it's very possible because of Carl
Lloyd and who she is and whatshe does and how she scores goals.
We very well may see her comeup in these big moments and scoring goals
against Chicago. But it's not aseasy as that. And and you mentioned
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Carl Lloyd and this could be herlast game. It very well. Maybe
she's had a lot of farewells.I don't think it will be too to
tip my hat on who I amhave favored in this game, who I
think will win. I don't thinkit'll be her last game. I think
we'll see her make it to thesemifinals because, like you said, Jonathan,
she comes up big in these bigmoments. She hasn't been able to
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do it for Gotham in the lastthree matches now. She missed one of
them due to international duty. Shewas with the national team on one of
those makeup matches with Racing Louisville.But three ties for Gotham and their last
three matches won one ties as well. So they're scoring goals, but they're
also letting up goals when they reallydon't need to be. They just need
to figure out how to close thegame a little bit sooner, and I
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think that's where the veteran dog eatdog world mentality that Carly Lloyd has will
coming to play that. No,she's not the defender on this team that's
going to stop everything from happening,but she has the mindset and the leadership
to be able to say to herteam, I got us a goal if
that's what happens first in this matchagainst Chicago. Now we need to lock
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it down defensively and honestly close outthe game. But I have a feeling
that we could see a big CarleyLloyd goal in this matchup. It's a
big game. It's a big gamein the playoffs for Gotham against Chicago,
and I have a feeling she couldhave one going one more upper sleeve.
It's interesting you mentioned, you know, these ties because they were all blown
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leads too. Yes, which I'msure in that locker room is not going
over very well. No, youcan't think of that at all, But
yeah, blown leads. They havethe lead and then they give up a
goal, and yeah, you cangive resilience to the other team. But
I think it's a little bit ofmental lapse from Gotham that we've seen,
and now that Gotham goes on andthey're facing Chicago in the first round of
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the playoffs, and Gotham's coach isChicago's former assistant in Scott Parkinson, so
he knows the Chicago system. Heknows Rory Dames and how that teams plays
and everything like that, and howhard it is to play against a Chicago
team. So does Gotham have theupper hand in that sense? Maybe they
have someone that was from the insideI had Ellen their coaching staff, But
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the blown leads is what's really reallyrough for Gotham. But they do have
Margaret Purse back who is out fora bit with injury. Now that she's
back, it's been a different gamefor Gotham. They have way more weapons
up top alongside Lloyd. There area lot of matchups in this game that
I'm looking forward to, and MargaretPurses at the center of what might be
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the biggest one, which is heragainst that Chicago backline, whether it's Sarah
Gordon, whether it's Tiernan Davidson,whether it's if it's Casey Krueger. In
particular, that one would really fascinateme. Potentially her go on one on
one with some of those players whoshe knows real well, has played against
in the league, has played withon the national team. Just think inside
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of the field. If Kruger endsup playing on the left side and Puris
is playing on the right, that'sone I think we got a circle immediately.
Yeah, I think it is,and I think we will see Krueger
there. She was out last matchdue to illness, so it's not a
physical injury, but you know,an illness said hopefully with some medicine or
some time you can get over knowingnot knowing what the specifics of that illness
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are. So I imagine we'll seeKrueger out there, and yeah, she'll
be matched up, matched up withPurse and that that is definitely something you're
circling. That flank will be veryactive because Krueger also likes to get up.
I know we're talking about Purse andgetting into the attack, but when
Krueger sneaks forward, that's Purse ismark. She needs to drop back and
make sure she stays tight on CaseyKrueger. But it'll also be difficult because
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they Gotham has Onemano up top,who's also really quick so Sarah Gordon's gonna
need to turn on the jets,which we know Sarah Gordon's center back for
the Red Stars can do. She'sone of the speediest players in this league.
But yeah, the Krueger Purse matchup, it's going to be difficult to
see who gets inline and who crossesthe ball in more. I don't know
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Casey. Casey sat out last matchfor Chicago and I think she sat about
that one and she wants to provethat she deserves to be there. And
also both those players, they're lookingat national team stuff coming up in January.
The January camp for Blacklanonovsky's around thecorner, and both of those players
are players that could be big partsof that camp, and now is the
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time to shine well. They couldbe big parts of that trip to Australia
too, I think, especially yesKasey Kruger. And I'm gonna I'm gonna
turn to malpu now because there's goingto be an enormous spotlight on her because
she's been playing really well. Obviously, she was just in Houston watching Gansby
Swanson win the World Series. Beforewe discuss Malory Pew again, I'm going
to avoid getting you in any trouble. But I need to get this out
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of the way because I've been askedabout it. It's been all over social
media. I think we all knowwhy. So I'm just gonna say this.
I don't know whether malpe is goingto Australia right now. The number
of people who know whether Malpeu wasgoing to Australia is probably five or ten.
She's one of them. Black Goananovskiis one of them. I would
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know, Kate mark Raff is oneof them. The Players Union chief is
probably one of them. I can'tpublicly speculate on this show because it would
be journalistically irresponsible of me to speculatepublicly as to whether Malpeu was going to
Australia. If she's not on thatroster, we will all find out at
the same time, and we willhave the opportunity to ask Flatgo why she's
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not on the squad. That's themost I can say about it without getting
in any trouble, Without getting Lisain any trouble. Y'all can figure out
the rest of the subject matter fromhere. I just can't say the rest
of it on the record because it'sjust not the right thing for me to
do. But I will talk aboutMalpew's performance on the field because she has
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earned her way back into the nationalteam by on the field performance with how
she has done with Chicago and nowshe's going to play against Gotham team she
played for some last year. Andyou know, we talk about how big
of spotlight Carly Lloyd's going to bein with Gotham. In terms of individual
players on Chicago, I think nowmight be in the sprightest one. Yeah,
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She's definitely a player that opponent circlewhen they know they're about to face
Chicago, and you can be certainthat Gotham is watching game film of Mallory
Pew and they're keying in on whatshe does well and honestly where her weak
points are in the attack for Chicago. But she's she's a really tricky player
to defend because she has so manydifferent weapons in her back pocket. She's
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really quick and she can get inbehind, she can lose defenders. She
has the intelligence to also drop backbehind defensive lines, in between midfield lines
and defender lines, pick up theball, turn and run at speed at
defenders, which is really difficult.And then her technical ability on the ball
is really impressive for a forward thathas so many other weapons that she can
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still dance on the ball and usemoves and footwork like a center mid.
Some of the other center mids inthis league in the NWSL, she's almost
better than some of them with herfootwork and the skills that she can do.
So as a defender, I playeddefense, and I'm a defender,
so I naturally have that defensive mindset. When I look at a player like
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Mallory Pu, I think, Okay, where's her weakness? Where can I
try to stop her? What doI want to force her to do?
Because you know she's going to dowhat she's going to do something on the
ball when she gets it. Youcan't just take it from her every single
time. But what do you forceher to do? So you force her
to her weakest point? And it'sreally hard to find one for Malory p
What is that weakest point? Becauseif you give her space, she'll dribble
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at you, and she'll do amove and she'll get around you. But
if you stay too tight, she'lluse her quick step and her fast restart
and her quick change of direction toget around you and lose you. Yeah,
I think Malory pu is going tobe a player that could be a
game changer for Chicago, and sheneeds to be a game changer for Chicago.
I'm gonna ask but one other Chicagoplayer. I'm gonna put it in
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the context of central midfield. I'mgonna get myself an enormous amount of trouble
on Twitter for raising the subject.But I do this on this show.
I just go waiting straight into themuck and go take a shower afterward or
whatever. Morgan Getra versus Ali Longand mccaull's running and Getra gets I don't
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want to say ignored, but undervaluedby I think a segment of the populace
for a number of reasons. Oneis the position she plays. It's not
always glamorous. Another is that caucusof people which says, okay, when
you're back in the national team,will find out and that's just it's not
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always fair. But that's one ofthe judgments that gets cast. As you've
watched her this year, is sheback at a level where you think she
might be on that plane to Australia. This is a question that I've actually
thought a lot about Jonathan and whatMorgan Gatrall can do. And I think
a lot of people think she's olderthan she is because she plays a lot
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older and her IQ on the fieldis a lot more mature than a lot
of other midfielders. But she's young. She's twenty eight, I believe,
twenty seven, twenty eight. She'sa young player. She has a lot
of soccer life left back in her. And the difference that Gatroll makes when
she's on the field and in themidfield for Chicago versus one she's not is
drastic. It's a make or breakgame for Chicago depending on how Gatral is
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playing. And I think it's sodangerous for Gatral because she plays on both
sides of the ball really, reallywell. A lot of times when you
look at defenders, even like whenyou look at Gotham and you have Ali
Long and McCall's theer Boni, AliLong is much more defensive on the ball,
and she can pick out those pocketsand she can find those holes and
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pick off passes and then she givesit to McCall or she finds Lloyd's feet
and then they create a lot ofthe magic. But with Morgan Gatrall,
she's a player that defensively, cansit and holes and read passes and break
up transitions for opponents really well,and then also be creative in the attack.
She doesn't just distribute really quickly,which is a lot of times what
we see from defensive midfielders and moredefensive minded center of the park players.
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She's not like that. She canalso play that really creative attacking midfielder position.
I don't know if she'll be goingto Australia. I think it would
be in black O and Danowski's interestand best interest to maybe try her out
there now as the time you canget her game inutes. These games don't
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mean too much for the national team. You know there's going to be holes
to fill come next year in thatmidfield. But the midfield for the US
women's national team isn't that deep.It's really not so to add in another
player like that in the mix thatcould slot into that defensive midfield position.
We saw what happened when Julie Earthgoes down. Who can step in It's
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Andy Sullivan, so you might needanother one. You never know what can
happen. I personally, I wouldlove to see her on the roster and
get minutes with the current women's nationalteam and see what she could do,
especially because if Mallory Pugh is oris not traveling but despite going to Australia,
but on this roster for the nationalteam, they know each other so
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well in that combination could be fun. And then you have Tierna Davidson behind.
It's just like a whole full Chicagopicture on the national team. It's
the central defensive midfield point is veryinteresting and one that I'm sure black Omnonofski
is thinking a whole lot about.And this we might do a show when
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the roster gets announced, because wereally, I mean, what we do
know is this is the first rosterwhere Flacco does not have to call in
any of the Olympians. He cancall into every once and all indications are
he's gonna go, I honestly,blow things up. Although he has the
opportunity now to blow things up,which a lot of us are waiting for.
I don't think he's gonna call inthat many veterans. We'll see and
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it's going to open space for alot of people. I want to move
on to Washington, North Carolina,which is the late game on Sunday five
thirty on Paramount Plus exclusively at AudieField in our nation's capital and Washington.
Look, there are so many storiesobviously off the field about both these teams.
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We know what they all are.I have not discussed them. I
discussed them some on the last showwe did two months ago, but that
was before Meg Lenahan's expose on theallegations against Paul Riley. Everybody knows what
has been put out there now everybodyknows. I hope that Lisa and I,
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by the nature of our jobs,have to put the word alleged in
front of everything that is out there, even with all the evidence. But
it is remarkable that this Washington team, even with the forfeits, finished third
in the East. Ashley Hatch wonthe Golden Boot. Trinity Rodman has broken
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out already. They do not alwaysget the attention of some of the more
glamorous teams in the league. Butthis Washington Spirit team, for all that
it has been through, for allthe upheople, for the coach getting fired,
for all of the alleged abuses,everything that has gone for the waiting
for Steve Baldwin to sell the team, all of this, they could have
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won the Shield. Yeah. Usuallyyou know, if everything, if if
you imagine, if somehow all wasright with the world, this team could
have won the Shield. They're reallygood. Yeah, I mean, even
if they didn't have to forfeit twomatches, it could have been a different
picture. And still when they didforfeit two, they still finished third.
They still get to host a firstround game, and they're in the playoffs.
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They're one of the earlier teams toclinch a playoff and they missed two
games. I think that's so muchto what they were able to do on
the field and how much Washington Spiritas a team. They're really friends off
the field, and they have alot of personnel that are really mindful,
and I think that that helped themthis season. They have players like Tory
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Houston, who is a veteran inthe league, is a veteran in Washington
Spirit, and she's a player thatrepresents for the Players Association and represents not
only her team, but she's headof the Players Association. So to be
in that type of role and havethat type of position as a player like
that who is so influential in themiddle, in the midfield for your Washington
Spirit team, and to be ableto rally around some of these younger,
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newer players in the league and say, let's separate this, let's try to
separate what's happening off the field fromon the field, and still clinch playoffs
and still a host of quarter finalgame. It's it's really impressive in the
future for Washington Spirit. Oh itis scary. Yeah, it is Trinity
Rodman six goals and five assists thisyear. Ashley Hatch won the Golden Boot
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with ten goals as Ashley Sanchez playedtwenty two games. You got just so
many incredible, as you say,young players on that team. Tigan mcgrady's
another one, Sam Stobs another one. The stat to me have I got
to pick one number out of thisWashington team that maybe hasn't gotten as much
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attention as it could have. Itis nineteen the number of games played by
Andy Sullivan this year, after allthat she has been through, all the
injuries that she has had, andevery time I watched her play, I
feel like there's this giant flashing arrowover her, said says the future of
American soccers that way, And everybody'sseen her now, everybody listens to this
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show as seen her with the Spirit, with the national team and she I
don't know how else to say itexcept she is that good. She is
that good. She is that good. It's it's that impressive to watch.
And I said, it's going tobe scary. The feature of this team.
Any Sullivan keeps getting better. That'ssomething else that's really really impressive.
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Even her time with the national team. Every time she gets on the field,
she changes her game a little bit. She gets a little bit more
smart, smarter in her positioning andher vision of the field, and she
gets better on what she can do. And she stepped in seamlessly to that
role. But her leadership on WashingtonSpirit has been I think a difference maker
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this year for them because she canjust let the fast, quick ones up
top and Hatch Sanchez Rodman just runand she's like, don't worry about getting
back, I'll cover everything on defenseand that block in the middle of the
park. She is the future.Yes, she is the future. That's
what I mean that the future ofWashington Spirit is scary, scary good,
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scary talented. And if they canstick together and stay and battle through the
adversity that they faced this season offthe field, it's there's no limit for
that team. I am falling onceagain into the sports talk radio host mode
where I just say declarative things andguests instead of asking a question and throwing
to the guest, which is howyou're supposed to do it. But I'm
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going to say a declarative thing andthrow to the guest again, which is
well, like, okay, Iwill try to phrase this any form of
a question. Do you also seethat when Andy Sullivan plays the six for
the national team instead of Lindsay Iran, who was a great player, But
there is a difference because Lindsay Iranis not a true six. When I
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was out in Saint Paul, Iparticular, notice this that Andy Sullivan's a
true six, and it makes abig difference with a national team. There's
there's teams that Lindsay Rann can playthe six against Shure, but it makes
a real big difference when she orJuliet's is back there, and you see
what the value of a true sixis. And you know, as you
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watch the national team Lisa with Andyannat do you do you see the difference
that she's already making too. Yes, completely, Lindsay Hurann is not a
six and she can do it becauseshe's a good enough player that it can
work in her favor. But that'sthe seam as saying, like, um,
if you look at a player likeMallory Pugh, yes, if we
needed her to play outside back,she could probably do it and be okay
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and the whole world wouldn't crumble.But Lindsey Hurann is not a six.
She is an attacking player. Sheneeds to be on the ball, not
defending it. And I'm going backto our conversation a few minutes ago,
Morgan Gatroll could be in that mixas a defensive six for the national team
because injuries happen, and as unfortunateas they are, your backup can't be
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an attacking midfield or it can't beLindsay Hran. Moving forward, when you
look at the World Cup, it'snot going to cut it against other teams.
And if Andy Sullivan is in thereand she can stay healthy, I
think she could be the go tothat Blacklandonovsky sees in that position. But
there needs to be more rotation inthat role and more competition. Honestly,
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if there's stricter and tougher competition intraining at the national team level between Earth's
and Sullivan for that position, andit doesn't just come down to injuries.
It will elevate that role, andit will elevate the midfield for the team,
which will ultimately elevate the team asa whole. But yeah, Andy
Sullivan, she's a lockdown at thenational team level, and then when you
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throw her in Washington Spirit against playersthat aren't quite at the national level,
she just stands out that much morein her abilities to pick up the slack
where other people leave it on theground. So if the Spirit or the
future, they're going to come upagainst a very and leaden team in North
Carolina. Amy Rodriguez, Jess JessMcDonald, abur Say Debenia christ Lynn Williams.
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You know you're gonna have me facea front three of McDonald, Debani
and Williams in the playoffs. Imean, that's their time of year and
it's going to be you know,everybody for all the turmoil the Courage had
been through, I don't I don'tthink it's at all fair to say that
the Courage dynasty is over. Ithink they'll be right back next year,
no matter who the manager is,whether it's Shawan the Ass or somebody else.
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But it's the time of the yearwhen the veteran, when the veteran
game winners get out there on thefield and make a difference in a one
game scenario, and void of theCourage just have still even with sam Us
out, they've still got so manyof them. They do. But I'm
going to argue that Amy Rodriguez hasn'tdone much for them since the trade happened
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between Kansas City North Carolina and aRod came to the Courage. She hasn't
found her place yet. She's beenokay, and she's had really moments of
greatness, but she is a playerthat traditionally shines and you give her the
ball and you know she's going todo something fantastic with it, and she's
going to progress the team and progressthe ball down the field into the attack
(29:21):
and be that person for your team. And they really haven't. She hasn't
done that for North Carolina. Andyes, there's been so many things happening
off the field, but also aRod is a veteran and she could have
been a little bit better in doingthat. And I'm being harsh here,
of course. I always I makethese elaborate statements about how players can be
(29:41):
better and what they should do tobe better, and they're still doing it
at the highest level. They're stillone of the best. But I don't
think that North Carolina has been aslethal in their attack this year. I
mean they haven't. It's proven theyhaven't. They this is the first time
that North Carolina. Yes, theystill made the playoffs, but it's the
first time that they're not number oneseed heading into the playoffs. It is
(30:04):
a remarkable, remarkable streak, butit's also because they haven't been scoring a
lot of goals and they've had torely a lot on their defense and Casey
Murphy, their goalkeeper for the courage. She has eleven shutouts on the year,
but you can't rely on her todo all the work. You can't
make it a one goal difference ina match. You have to be able
to score goals. And I thinkLinn Williams has been off the last few
(30:26):
weeks. I'm hoping that the playoffsget her back into form. And now
that Paul Riley is out of NorthCarolina and they're trying to start over with
a clean slate, and there's beena lot of turnover in the league and
progress being made towards what needs tohappen and player safety focus and transparency.
I'm hoping Linn Williams can come outof her funk a little bit, square
(30:48):
goals and be a bit more relaxed. That's it. She just needs a
massage and tea a glass of wineand then go hit the field and we'll
see some goals from Lynn Williams.So we'll cheer on the Rain and the
Thorns, who are the teams thathave the buys. The Rain will host
the first semifinal. Both games areon the fourteenth of November. Both games
are on CBS Sports Network. TheRain will host Washington or North Carolina.
(31:14):
And I'll save the question I wasabout to ask. I'll put it this
way. The Rains game against KansasCity that they played in the regular season,
one of the goals gets scored,and there's five people in the camera
frame at the same time, MeganRapino, Eugene Les, Jennifer Marajan,
(31:38):
Jessica Fishlock, and Rose Lavelle.And I looked at that and I said,
oh, beat that. I meanit's and and and Laura Harvey is
out there coaching and making it allwork, which is to her great credit
because not every coach on the earth. Some people will say, oh yeah,
just throw the talent out there andlet him play. No, it's
not that easy. But my goodness, I mean, we know they're stacked
(32:02):
there, but now they're really showingit and everybody's playing and they're playing well
together. I mean, it wouldalmost be a waste of a good cake
if they weren't playing as well asthey are, because, like you said,
they have all this talent and theyare so stacked. Yes, so
much credit to Laura Harvey and howshe's been able to bring that out of
(32:23):
those players, because not everyone needsto pull it out of them. But
there are definitely moments when Rose Lavelleshe needs a little nudge to be better
than than she was yesterday. Um, And I think the credit does go
to co Trve in that role.But yeah, I mean, if they
were on the pitch and not doingall these fantastic things, it would be
a bit of a disappointment to befrank. Um. There's times when I
(32:52):
look at their starting lineups and wonderwho plays the six for them. I
mean, sometimes Quinn does, andthey're really it out it obviously, but
there's times when they just sort ofthrow everybody out there and then they just
go stop people. Yeah, Andlike, I don't know what's going to
happen with this, because whoever theybe coming across the country and everything else,
(33:15):
they might go stop somebody. Theymight they might just go stop some
people. I don't know. Ithink they will watch. I think they
will. You're so right about who'splaying the sixth because Quinn they get forward
a lot and they rotate around umthis the midfield is they're they're not set
(33:36):
in positions. And I think thatwhen you have players that are so good
and so talented, like the sixin the middle and the front line for
ol Rain, they are so talented, but they're also really smart, and
they've played with a lot of differentteams and a lot of different people and
for a lot of different years.Because of that, they can see the
(33:57):
rotation that's happening on the pitch.When and Lavelle pushes forward, which she
does randomly streak forward down the fieldwith the ball, who's going to fill
in that hole behind her? Andsometimes we see Rapino dropping in a little
bit to play more of a midfieldrole, and then Fishlock winds up running
and streaking forward as well. Butit's because they're all really smart and they've
(34:19):
seen different formations and a lot ofthem have played forward and have played mid
and have played defensive, and becauseof that, they can find that automatic
rotation and switch through the run ofplay. One other in the underrated stat
category. Speaking of former Stanford players, a lot of cook nineteen games played,
nineteen games started ninety minutes all theway through. She's surely going to
(34:45):
be on that plane to Australia,and she's her time. Her time's coming,
and we've all known it for awhile, to be fair, but
I think now really like we're we'rehitting that horizon now where her times here.
And I'm not trying to retire anybody, but I think we all know
(35:07):
that the US needs center back depthand they need to genue a situation where
they can rotate a lot of centerbacks and be okay. And also,
have you know a few people whoare playing a lot, And I think
Cook's got the talent to be oneof those who are playing a lot.
And I'm not just saying that becauseshe went to high school in South Jersey.
(35:30):
I want to ask about the thornsto close because it's their time.
Not only is it their time ofyear, as we know, they're going
for something that's never been done beforein American women's soccer history, which is
four trophies in one year. Andwe take their success almost for granted.
(35:51):
I feel like, as they've justbeen so good for so long, but
somebody's going to have to bring itup. And again, as I might
be me, I might have toI might have to do this. That
Mark Parsons only got it most twogames left in charge the Thorns. Oh,
it's so sad. And is hegonna get sent off here with the
(36:16):
sweep? Because when they won theICC in the summer, we were all
talking about it. And now it'stime, you know, and it's I'll
let you pick the players this timewho you're watching on this Thorns team.
(36:36):
I mean, we know the bigones obviously, but what do you think
of the ones who are gonna stepup here if they're gonna when they're semifinal
over Gotham in Chicago and then goeast to Louisville and win the whole thing.
But my initial gut reaction truly stickswith the theme that we've been discussing.
Jonathan, We're picking out the sixeson these squads, and you have
(36:57):
to look at Angela Salem when youlook at for it, and it's such
an influential position on the field,and she is someone that her consistency changes
the game for Portland. Yeah,I mean the success they've had on the
fields, it's because they have alot of stars as well, but it's
also because they're all really bought intothe mindset and the foundation that Mark Parsons
(37:21):
has laid at Portland and throughout theThorn's organization is that everyone's brought into this
mentality that they are the best,and they can be the best, and
they can continue to be the best. It's it's not like they don't have
this chip on their shoulder. It'sand they're not cocky about it, but
it's more that they have this unshakeablefaith in themselves as a team and faith
(37:45):
in the players standing next to them, which some teams don't have. You
don't always trust the person that's standingto the left and to the right of
you when you're on the pitch.And what's going to happen when they get
the ball, dow I need tocover for them because they're going to make
a mistake. But when you Portlandplay, they have this faith in each
other and the faith and the teammatesstanding next to them, and this belief
(38:07):
that they're going to do well.And I think it starts with Mark Parsons
and how he's laid the foundation forthis team. And then when you pick
out a player like Angela Salem,she's the glue of this team, and
she's the glue and what brings themall together, and she's right at that
middle of the park to kind ofconnect with the players like Christine Sinclair and
(38:29):
Becky Serbron who have been around thegame for so long, but also teach
it to younger guys in Weber andSophia Smith that are also doing a lot
of that work. Even Mengus hasdone fantastic in the center back too.
But I picked out Angela Salem becausehow could I not. She's just done
so well. Oh, I don'tblame you, And you know everybody talks
(38:52):
about all the star power on thisteam. Of course that's what we always
do. Seventeen goals allowed in twentyfour games this season by the Thorns,
no one else Gotham second in termsof goals allowing twenty one. That is
really stingy and it's no goals Jonathan, and you have to remember that either
(39:13):
on a French was the starting goalkeeper. She goes to the Olympic, Bella
Bigsby steps in, she does afantastic job, and French gets traded away
and now it's the backup goalie whohas had this tremendous season for Portlands.
I'm gonna for one of the nameout there. I'll be real quick about
it because we're gonna wrap up theshow here in a moment. If you're
(39:34):
a listener of this show, areyou getting this show in the sports podcasting
networks overall stuff or whatnot. You'rea casual follower of women's soccer, you
don't. You don't know all thenames necessarily on all the teams. You
need to watch Sophia Smith because you'regonna be watching Sophia Smith for a long
(39:55):
long time. She is one ofmy favorite players on the Thorns because she
is just a classic number nine inI'm gonna I'm gonna put her in the
class with Abuan Back and Alex Morganbecause she's got that much potential in her.
She goes into all the ugly spaces. She goes right smack of MILLI
eighteen yard box does all the hardrunning. She was Portland's leading scorer this
(40:19):
year, with seven goals in twentyone games. She's been scoring. I
know she's been playing on the wingfor the national team. I think that
is only a matter of circumstance andCarli Lloyd and Alex Morgan being around.
The time will come when she isthe starting number nine for flat Gwyanna Knovski
and I think it will be soon. And she has all of the tools
and she's only twenty one. Yeah, that's yeah. The fun fact about
(40:40):
her, she's so young, She'sso much more to grow and to do,
and she's just she's got. Ifyou're a I'm not a tactics savant
person, I'm a I'm a falsefor narratives person, as I mentioned earlier,
But the tactics summons among you.Watch her, focus on her and
(41:00):
you will see all the pieces ofa big time number nine. All right,
we have gone through the six teams. We have done all that we
are supposed to do. You andI both unfortunately have things to get to
rather shortly as we are recording.Thank you so much, for coming on
the show. We will, I'msure, run into each other soon enough.
(41:22):
I doubt I'm going to be ableto make this happen before it starts
snowing. But some Tuesday or Wednesday, when we're all in town, we
should go to Fido Commandeer the OutdoorTV and watch some games in the middle
of the afternoon together and just shootthe breeze and have a lot of fun.
Hopefully we'll get to do that atsome point. Lisa Roman is on
(41:42):
Twitter at l Roman thirty two.She is on CBS Sports and Paramount Plus
calling in WSL games. She ison the Attacking Third podcast. You should
subscribe to that. As I saidat the top of the show, hopefully
it will not be two months beforethe next one of these episodes. I've
been putting a lot into my workat the Inquiry. You all have seen
how much of it has been subscriberonly recently, because hey, we are
(42:06):
trying to get you to subscribe.You may have noticed that. And it's
been some really good stuff, stuffthat I've been really proud of. Especially
Yes, it's true the things I'vewritten about Carly Lloyd and we have,
as you may have noticed, sortof buried the hatchet on some of the
things that went down with me andher in the past, which I'm very
happy about. I got to meether parents at the Gotham game that we're
(42:29):
sitting right behind the press section.That was very cool. They're very,
very nice people, and as yousaw in the video that Steve, Carly's
father did that US Soccer posted,they're just over the moon to be reunited
with their daughter. And I thinkthat's a really, really terrific story.
As Carly Lloyd closes out her careerhere, Lisa, thanks again for my
producer, Kevin larm Up in Montreal, my colleague Dwayne Rawlins in Toronto.
(42:52):
Go listen to Soccer Today to getso much more about what's going on in
the soccer world. I'm Jonathan tannonWald of Philadelphia Inquirer. Thank you so
much for listening to the women's soccerreview here on the Sports Podcasting Network.
Women Fucker Review podcast with I'm Jonathantan and Walled called a sports podcasting networking.
Welcome to the latest episode of theWomen's Soccer Review here on the Sports
Podcasting Network. I'm Jonathan Tannenwald ofThe Philadelphia Inquiry. Yes, it has
again been two months since the lastshow. I realized that I thank you
(00:27):
all for your patients and understanding.I especially thank Kevin Laramy, my producer
in Montreal, Dwayne Rawlins, mycolleague up in Toronto. I thank them
very much for their understanding, theirflexibility. They are patients. They're allowing
me to do this show around myreal job, which, as you all
have seen, I'm sure is mademe very busy. Of late. I
was at Carle Lloyd's last national teamgame in Saint Paul, Minnesota, was
(00:49):
at her last club game with Gothamthis past weekend. I'm doing a million
things in the men's soccer world,and our guest on the show today is
really just about as busy as Iam, and I think we were actually
going to meet in person for thefirst time potentially, except that on the
day when she gets ends up workinga Philadelphia Union game. Lisa Roman,
(01:11):
where else do I end up atRed Bull Areena and you're at super Bow
Park. Welcome to the show.It's great to have you on. It
is so great to be here,Jonathan, thank you for having me.
Yeah. I understand the grind andthe busy days that come out of it
eighties championship playoff season in the worldof fall sports and MLS soccer and NWSL,
(01:32):
and hey, when the game's called, we answer, right, Oh,
that's absolutely true. And you getto actually broadcast them, which I
just get to sit there and writeabout them. But look, I will
say this very quickly about the seasonbeing busy. I do want to say
this on the show and get itout of the way, because this show
is to preview the NWSL playoffs,and I'm not going to be able to
(01:53):
watch either game at all, andpossibly if I like, bring an iPad
with me. I'm going to bea Yankee Stadium on Sunday for the Philadelphia
Union's regular season finale. If Iwas the NWSL, I don't think I
would have put my playoff games upagainst decision Day in MLS at the exact
same hour. I understand they mightnot have had a choice, Lisa,
(02:15):
I will spare you having to getin any trouble by commenting on that since
it wasn't up to you. ButI just it's not how I would have
done it. The TV time onCBS Sports Network, I'm sure is what
they were able to get. It'snot how I would have done it,
because you're competing for the same audience. There's my little soapbox bit right out
of the gate, having not donea show for two months, and that's
(02:38):
you know, here I go rightjust turning on the fire blaster right away,
right as we get going. Theonly other thing I will say about
having got done a show in twomonths is this, and then we'll get
into the meat of the show.I wanted, I still want, hope
to do a show on Toben Heathat Arsenal. Had been working on something
with some colleagues I have in Londonand they fell apart, which is why
(02:59):
it ended up being too months sincethe last show. This one did not
have to stretch the proverbial tin cannonstring across the Atlantic Ocean. This one
I only had to go across townhere in Philadelphia, which is pretty cool
for folks who don't know. Lisais based here in Philly. I am
based here. Laurie Lindsay is basedhere. Marissa Pilla is based here.
Those of you who watch the PremierLeague or who watch MLS will have heard
(03:21):
the name Danny Higginbotham. He's basedhere. This little parochial backwater Lisa where
you grow up, all of asudden, has all these soccer people in
it. What are we doing corruptingthe people of Philadelphia with the World's game.
It's a terrible thing, right,I mean, it's so fantastic that
we have a little a crew anda little neighborhood of soccer people right here
(03:43):
in Philadelphia, and as big asthe city is and as small as it
can be, sometimes I still don'trun into you guys enough on the street
or walking around or things like that. I'm sure we'll make it happen though.
Right the Italian market, we'll hitit up together. We'll get some
good grub and find some It's absolutelytrue. And Kate Scott too. I
should add who's the new game.Who's done some US women's national team games
(04:06):
for Fox Sports. And if youdon't know who she is, folks,
I would encourage you to look herup, look her reels, up now,
because you're gonna be seeing a lotmore of her on Fox in the
years to come. And if that'stipping my hand a little bit about some
things I've heard, I think I'mallowed to do that. Um. No,
you're absolutely right about the Italian market. I go walking down there on
(04:27):
most Saturday and Sunday mornings thinking thatI'm going to run into Marissa or Laurie
or Jim Curtin, who lives notall that far from there, and then
I realize, of course they're allout of town. Every time that I
try to do that, Marissa's atgames. You and Laurie are at just
a world linkedown in Orlando calling gamesoff monitors, And I'm are you able
to tell the people whether you're gonnabe calling games in the playoffs? I
(04:48):
will not be calling games in theplayoffs. Um, I'm allowed to spell
those beans. It's a little hardfor me to get there and do the
travel, and when I get toFlorida to called games, I like to
do a few at a time.And because of the playoffs and the game's
being staggered just so yeah, withonly an hour and a half difference between
(05:10):
kickoff times, you can't do bothgames. You can't do multiple games,
so just not this time around.For the playoffs. I'll still be covering
them though for CBS and for AttackingThird that podcast there we'll do. We
do pre games and post games,will cover it all, so I will
be tuned in. And Jonathan,I know you said you're gonna be at
Yankee Stadium covering the Union game.They have this thing called Wi Fi.
You can bring your iPad. I'mgonna try. I'm gonna try to.
(05:33):
It's the I'm gonna try. Ibelieve me. Um. And yes,
you mentioned the Attacking Third. That'syour podcast for CBS with Sandra Herrero who's
been on the show and number oftimes before. Um, do you go
check that out? And I knowthat CBS is cooking up a whole lot
(05:53):
of things even after the NWSL seasonis over with women's soccer. What they
are, well, you'll just haveto stay too that much. That much
I cannot yet say on this airin public, or else I would get
in trouble. We are going todiscuss the NWSL playoffs. I think we
should just do the easy thing,which is take the games in chronological order.
(06:16):
Take the two first round games,and then take the two second round
games. And so we will startwith the Chicago Red Stars, the fourth
seed, hosting Gotham FC, thefifth seed, three o'clock Eastern on Sunday.
It is the CBS Sports Network TVgame out of the two on Sunday.
It is Carly Lloyd returning to theclub where she played her first professional
(06:40):
game in two thousand and nine.And as storylines go, those of us
who fall for narratives because that's whatwe do in the media, we're bad
like that. It's certainly a narrative. Is this possibility that Carly now Every
game that Carly Lloyd now plays obviouslycould be the last one she ever plays.
Well, the last one she everplays could be against the first team
that she ever plays for she everplayed for. There is so much to
(07:05):
talk about with both of these teams, but I think we have to talk
with about Carlie first, and notjust not just because she's going to be
the most famous person on the field. We know that, but she does
have this reputation of scoring really biggoals in really big games. And wouldn't
(07:27):
it be something if Gotham is ableto go on a run here and she's
right in the middle of it.I think it's very possible because of Carl
Lloyd and who she is and whatshe does and how she scores goals.
We very well may see her comeup in these big moments and scoring goals
against Chicago. But it's not aseasy as that. And and you mentioned
(07:50):
Carl Lloyd and this could be herlast game. It very well. Maybe
she's had a lot of farewells.I don't think it will be too to
tip my hat on who I amhave favored in this game, who I
think will win. I don't thinkit'll be her last game. I think
we'll see her make it to thesemifinals because, like you said, Jonathan,
she comes up big in these bigmoments. She hasn't been able to
(08:13):
do it for Gotham in the lastthree matches now. She missed one of
them due to international duty. Shewas with the national team on one of
those makeup matches with Racing Louisville.But three ties for Gotham and their last
three matches won one ties as well. So they're scoring goals, but they're
also letting up goals when they reallydon't need to be. They just need
to figure out how to close thegame a little bit sooner, and I
(08:35):
think that's where the veteran dog eatdog world mentality that Carly Lloyd has will
coming to play that. No,she's not the defender on this team that's
going to stop everything from happening,but she has the mindset and the leadership
to be able to say to herteam, I got us a goal if
that's what happens first in this matchagainst Chicago. Now we need to lock
(08:56):
it down defensively and honestly close outthe game. But I have a feeling
that we could see a big CarleyLloyd goal in this matchup. It's a
big game. It's a big gamein the playoffs for Gotham against Chicago,
and I have a feeling she couldhave one going one more upper sleeve.
It's interesting you mentioned, you know, these ties because they were all blown
(09:18):
leads too. Yes, which I'msure in that locker room is not going
over very well. No, youcan't think of that at all, But
yeah, blown leads. They havethe lead and then they give up a
goal, and yeah, you cangive resilience to the other team. But
I think it's a little bit ofmental lapse from Gotham that we've seen,
and now that Gotham goes on andthey're facing Chicago in the first round of
(09:41):
the playoffs, and Gotham's coach isChicago's former assistant in Scott Parkinson, so
he knows the Chicago system. Heknows Rory Dames and how that teams plays
and everything like that, and howhard it is to play against a Chicago
team. So does Gotham have theupper hand in that sense? Maybe they
have someone that was from the insideI had Ellen their coaching staff, But
(10:01):
the blown leads is what's really reallyrough for Gotham. But they do have
Margaret Purse back who is out fora bit with injury. Now that she's
back, it's been a different gamefor Gotham. They have way more weapons
up top alongside Lloyd. There area lot of matchups in this game that
I'm looking forward to, and MargaretPurses at the center of what might be
(10:24):
the biggest one, which is heragainst that Chicago backline, whether it's Sarah
Gordon, whether it's Tiernan Davidson,whether it's if it's Casey Krueger. In
particular, that one would really fascinateme. Potentially her go on one on
one with some of those players whoshe knows real well, has played against
in the league, has played withon the national team. Just think inside
(10:48):
of the field. If Kruger endsup playing on the left side and Puris
is playing on the right, that'sone I think we got a circle immediately.
Yeah, I think it is,and I think we will see Krueger
there. She was out last matchdue to illness, so it's not a
physical injury, but you know,an illness said hopefully with some medicine or
some time you can get over knowingnot knowing what the specifics of that illness
(11:09):
are. So I imagine we'll seeKrueger out there, and yeah, she'll
be matched up, matched up withPurse and that that is definitely something you're
circling. That flank will be veryactive because Krueger also likes to get up.
I know we're talking about Purse andgetting into the attack, but when
Krueger sneaks forward, that's Purse ismark. She needs to drop back and
make sure she stays tight on CaseyKrueger. But it'll also be difficult because
(11:33):
they Gotham has Onemano up top,who's also really quick so Sarah Gordon's gonna
need to turn on the jets,which we know Sarah Gordon's center back for
the Red Stars can do. She'sone of the speediest players in this league.
But yeah, the Krueger Purse matchup, it's going to be difficult to
see who gets inline and who crossesthe ball in more. I don't know
(11:54):
Casey. Casey sat out last matchfor Chicago and I think she sat about
that one and she wants to provethat she deserves to be there. And
also both those players, they're lookingat national team stuff coming up in January.
The January camp for Blacklanonovsky's around thecorner, and both of those players
are players that could be big partsof that camp, and now is the
(12:16):
time to shine well. They couldbe big parts of that trip to Australia
too, I think, especially yesKasey Kruger. And I'm gonna I'm gonna
turn to malpu now because there's goingto be an enormous spotlight on her because
she's been playing really well. Obviously, she was just in Houston watching Gansby
Swanson win the World Series. Beforewe discuss Malory Pew again, I'm going
to avoid getting you in any trouble. But I need to get this out
(12:37):
of the way because I've been askedabout it. It's been all over social
media. I think we all knowwhy. So I'm just gonna say this.
I don't know whether malpe is goingto Australia right now. The number
of people who know whether Malpeu wasgoing to Australia is probably five or ten.
She's one of them. Black Goananovskiis one of them. I would
(13:01):
know, Kate mark Raff is oneof them. The Players Union chief is
probably one of them. I can'tpublicly speculate on this show because it would
be journalistically irresponsible of me to speculatepublicly as to whether Malpeu was going to
Australia. If she's not on thatroster, we will all find out at
the same time, and we willhave the opportunity to ask Flatgo why she's
(13:22):
not on the squad. That's themost I can say about it without getting
in any trouble, Without getting Lisain any trouble. Y'all can figure out
the rest of the subject matter fromhere. I just can't say the rest
of it on the record because it'sjust not the right thing for me to
do. But I will talk aboutMalpew's performance on the field because she has
(13:46):
earned her way back into the nationalteam by on the field performance with how
she has done with Chicago and nowshe's going to play against Gotham team she
played for some last year. Andyou know, we talk about how big
of spotlight Carly Lloyd's going to bein with Gotham. In terms of individual
players on Chicago, I think nowmight be in the sprightest one. Yeah,
(14:07):
She's definitely a player that opponent circlewhen they know they're about to face
Chicago, and you can be certainthat Gotham is watching game film of Mallory
Pew and they're keying in on whatshe does well and honestly where her weak
points are in the attack for Chicago. But she's she's a really tricky player
to defend because she has so manydifferent weapons in her back pocket. She's
(14:31):
really quick and she can get inbehind, she can lose defenders. She
has the intelligence to also drop backbehind defensive lines, in between midfield lines
and defender lines, pick up theball, turn and run at speed at
defenders, which is really difficult.And then her technical ability on the ball
is really impressive for a forward thathas so many other weapons that she can
(14:54):
still dance on the ball and usemoves and footwork like a center mid.
Some of the other center mids inthis league in the NWSL, she's almost
better than some of them with herfootwork and the skills that she can do.
So as a defender, I playeddefense, and I'm a defender,
so I naturally have that defensive mindset. When I look at a player like
(15:16):
Mallory Pu, I think, Okay, where's her weakness? Where can I
try to stop her? What doI want to force her to do?
Because you know she's going to dowhat she's going to do something on the
ball when she gets it. Youcan't just take it from her every single
time. But what do you forceher to do? So you force her
to her weakest point? And it'sreally hard to find one for Malory p
What is that weakest point? Becauseif you give her space, she'll dribble
(15:39):
at you, and she'll do amove and she'll get around you. But
if you stay too tight, she'lluse her quick step and her fast restart
and her quick change of direction toget around you and lose you. Yeah,
I think Malory pu is going tobe a player that could be a
game changer for Chicago, and sheneeds to be a game changer for Chicago.
I'm gonna ask but one other Chicagoplayer. I'm gonna put it in
(16:02):
the context of central midfield. I'mgonna get myself an enormous amount of trouble
on Twitter for raising the subject.But I do this on this show.
I just go waiting straight into themuck and go take a shower afterward or
whatever. Morgan Getra versus Ali Longand mccaull's running and Getra gets I don't
(16:25):
want to say ignored, but undervaluedby I think a segment of the populace
for a number of reasons. Oneis the position she plays. It's not
always glamorous. Another is that caucusof people which says, okay, when
you're back in the national team,will find out and that's just it's not
(16:47):
always fair. But that's one ofthe judgments that gets cast. As you've
watched her this year, is sheback at a level where you think she
might be on that plane to Australia. This is a question that I've actually
thought a lot about Jonathan and whatMorgan Gatrall can do. And I think
a lot of people think she's olderthan she is because she plays a lot
(17:10):
older and her IQ on the fieldis a lot more mature than a lot
of other midfielders. But she's young. She's twenty eight, I believe,
twenty seven, twenty eight. She'sa young player. She has a lot
of soccer life left back in her. And the difference that Gatroll makes when
she's on the field and in themidfield for Chicago versus one she's not is
drastic. It's a make or breakgame for Chicago depending on how Gatral is
(17:34):
playing. And I think it's sodangerous for Gatral because she plays on both
sides of the ball really, reallywell. A lot of times when you
look at defenders, even like whenyou look at Gotham and you have Ali
Long and McCall's theer Boni, AliLong is much more defensive on the ball,
and she can pick out those pocketsand she can find those holes and
(17:56):
pick off passes and then she givesit to McCall or she finds Lloyd's feet
and then they create a lot ofthe magic. But with Morgan Gatrall,
she's a player that defensively, cansit and holes and read passes and break
up transitions for opponents really well,and then also be creative in the attack.
She doesn't just distribute really quickly,which is a lot of times what
we see from defensive midfielders and moredefensive minded center of the park players.
(18:21):
She's not like that. She canalso play that really creative attacking midfielder position.
I don't know if she'll be goingto Australia. I think it would
be in black O and Danowski's interestand best interest to maybe try her out
there now as the time you canget her game inutes. These games don't
(18:41):
mean too much for the national team. You know there's going to be holes
to fill come next year in thatmidfield. But the midfield for the US
women's national team isn't that deep.It's really not so to add in another
player like that in the mix thatcould slot into that defensive midfield position.
We saw what happened when Julie Earthgoes down. Who can step in It's
(19:03):
Andy Sullivan, so you might needanother one. You never know what can
happen. I personally, I wouldlove to see her on the roster and
get minutes with the current women's nationalteam and see what she could do,
especially because if Mallory Pugh is oris not traveling but despite going to Australia,
but on this roster for the nationalteam, they know each other so
(19:23):
well in that combination could be fun. And then you have Tierna Davidson behind.
It's just like a whole full Chicagopicture on the national team. It's
the central defensive midfield point is veryinteresting and one that I'm sure black Omnonofski
is thinking a whole lot about.And this we might do a show when
(19:44):
the roster gets announced, because wereally, I mean, what we do
know is this is the first rosterwhere Flacco does not have to call in
any of the Olympians. He cancall into every once and all indications are
he's gonna go, I honestly,blow things up. Although he has the
opportunity now to blow things up,which a lot of us are waiting for.
I don't think he's gonna call inthat many veterans. We'll see and
(20:06):
it's going to open space for alot of people. I want to move
on to Washington, North Carolina,which is the late game on Sunday five
thirty on Paramount Plus exclusively at AudieField in our nation's capital and Washington.
Look, there are so many storiesobviously off the field about both these teams.
(20:32):
We know what they all are.I have not discussed them. I
discussed them some on the last showwe did two months ago, but that
was before Meg Lenahan's expose on theallegations against Paul Riley. Everybody knows what
has been put out there now everybodyknows. I hope that Lisa and I,
(20:53):
by the nature of our jobs,have to put the word alleged in
front of everything that is out there, even with all the evidence. But
it is remarkable that this Washington team, even with the forfeits, finished third
in the East. Ashley Hatch wonthe Golden Boot. Trinity Rodman has broken
(21:14):
out already. They do not alwaysget the attention of some of the more
glamorous teams in the league. Butthis Washington Spirit team, for all that
it has been through, for allthe upheople, for the coach getting fired,
for all of the alleged abuses,everything that has gone for the waiting
for Steve Baldwin to sell the team, all of this, they could have
(21:37):
won the Shield. Yeah. Usuallyyou know, if everything, if if
you imagine, if somehow all wasright with the world, this team could
have won the Shield. They're reallygood. Yeah, I mean, even
if they didn't have to forfeit twomatches, it could have been a different
picture. And still when they didforfeit two, they still finished third.
They still get to host a firstround game, and they're in the playoffs.
(22:02):
They're one of the earlier teams toclinch a playoff and they missed two
games. I think that's so muchto what they were able to do on
the field and how much Washington Spiritas a team. They're really friends off
the field, and they have alot of personnel that are really mindful,
and I think that that helped themthis season. They have players like Tory
(22:26):
Houston, who is a veteran inthe league, is a veteran in Washington
Spirit, and she's a player thatrepresents for the Players Association and represents not
only her team, but she's headof the Players Association. So to be
in that type of role and havethat type of position as a player like
that who is so influential in themiddle, in the midfield for your Washington
Spirit team, and to be ableto rally around some of these younger,
(22:49):
newer players in the league and say, let's separate this, let's try to
separate what's happening off the field fromon the field, and still clinch playoffs
and still a host of quarter finalgame. It's it's really impressive in the
future for Washington Spirit. Oh itis scary. Yeah, it is Trinity
Rodman six goals and five assists thisyear. Ashley Hatch won the Golden Boot
(23:14):
with ten goals as Ashley Sanchez playedtwenty two games. You got just so
many incredible, as you say,young players on that team. Tigan mcgrady's
another one, Sam Stobs another one. The stat to me have I got
to pick one number out of thisWashington team that maybe hasn't gotten as much
(23:37):
attention as it could have. Itis nineteen the number of games played by
Andy Sullivan this year, after allthat she has been through, all the
injuries that she has had, andevery time I watched her play, I
feel like there's this giant flashing arrowover her, said says the future of
American soccers that way, And everybody'sseen her now, everybody listens to this
(24:03):
show as seen her with the Spirit, with the national team and she I
don't know how else to say itexcept she is that good. She is
that good. She is that good. It's it's that impressive to watch.
And I said, it's going tobe scary. The feature of this team.
Any Sullivan keeps getting better. That'ssomething else that's really really impressive.
(24:23):
Even her time with the national team. Every time she gets on the field,
she changes her game a little bit. She gets a little bit more
smart, smarter in her positioning andher vision of the field, and she
gets better on what she can do. And she stepped in seamlessly to that
role. But her leadership on WashingtonSpirit has been I think a difference maker
(24:47):
this year for them because she canjust let the fast, quick ones up
top and Hatch Sanchez Rodman just runand she's like, don't worry about getting
back, I'll cover everything on defenseand that block in the middle of the
park. She is the future.Yes, she is the future. That's
what I mean that the future ofWashington Spirit is scary, scary good,
(25:08):
scary talented. And if they canstick together and stay and battle through the
adversity that they faced this season offthe field, it's there's no limit for
that team. I am falling onceagain into the sports talk radio host mode
where I just say declarative things andguests instead of asking a question and throwing
to the guest, which is howyou're supposed to do it. But I'm
(25:30):
going to say a declarative thing andthrow to the guest again, which is
well, like, okay, Iwill try to phrase this any form of
a question. Do you also seethat when Andy Sullivan plays the six for
the national team instead of Lindsay Iran, who was a great player, But
there is a difference because Lindsay Iranis not a true six. When I
(25:51):
was out in Saint Paul, Iparticular, notice this that Andy Sullivan's a
true six, and it makes abig difference with a national team. There's
there's teams that Lindsay Rann can playthe six against Shure, but it makes
a real big difference when she orJuliet's is back there, and you see
what the value of a true sixis. And you know, as you
(26:14):
watch the national team Lisa with Andyannat do you do you see the difference
that she's already making too. Yes, completely, Lindsay Hurann is not a
six and she can do it becauseshe's a good enough player that it can
work in her favor. But that'sthe seam as saying, like, um,
if you look at a player likeMallory Pugh, yes, if we
needed her to play outside back,she could probably do it and be okay
(26:37):
and the whole world wouldn't crumble.But Lindsey Hurann is not a six.
She is an attacking player. Sheneeds to be on the ball, not
defending it. And I'm going backto our conversation a few minutes ago,
Morgan Gatroll could be in that mixas a defensive six for the national team
because injuries happen, and as unfortunateas they are, your backup can't be
(27:00):
an attacking midfield or it can't beLindsay Hran. Moving forward, when you
look at the World Cup, it'snot going to cut it against other teams.
And if Andy Sullivan is in thereand she can stay healthy, I
think she could be the go tothat Blacklandonovsky sees in that position. But
there needs to be more rotation inthat role and more competition. Honestly,
(27:21):
if there's stricter and tougher competition intraining at the national team level between Earth's
and Sullivan for that position, andit doesn't just come down to injuries.
It will elevate that role, andit will elevate the midfield for the team,
which will ultimately elevate the team asa whole. But yeah, Andy
Sullivan, she's a lockdown at thenational team level, and then when you
(27:42):
throw her in Washington Spirit against playersthat aren't quite at the national level,
she just stands out that much morein her abilities to pick up the slack
where other people leave it on theground. So if the Spirit or the
future, they're going to come upagainst a very and leaden team in North
Carolina. Amy Rodriguez, Jess JessMcDonald, abur Say Debenia christ Lynn Williams.
(28:11):
You know you're gonna have me facea front three of McDonald, Debani
and Williams in the playoffs. Imean, that's their time of year and
it's going to be you know,everybody for all the turmoil the Courage had
been through, I don't I don'tthink it's at all fair to say that
the Courage dynasty is over. Ithink they'll be right back next year,
no matter who the manager is,whether it's Shawan the Ass or somebody else.
(28:37):
But it's the time of the yearwhen the veteran, when the veteran
game winners get out there on thefield and make a difference in a one
game scenario, and void of theCourage just have still even with sam Us
out, they've still got so manyof them. They do. But I'm
going to argue that Amy Rodriguez hasn'tdone much for them since the trade happened
(28:57):
between Kansas City North Carolina and aRod came to the Courage. She hasn't
found her place yet. She's beenokay, and she's had really moments of
greatness, but she is a playerthat traditionally shines and you give her the
ball and you know she's going todo something fantastic with it, and she's
going to progress the team and progressthe ball down the field into the attack
(29:21):
and be that person for your team. And they really haven't. She hasn't
done that for North Carolina. Andyes, there's been so many things happening
off the field, but also aRod is a veteran and she could have
been a little bit better in doingthat. And I'm being harsh here,
of course. I always I makethese elaborate statements about how players can be
(29:41):
better and what they should do tobe better, and they're still doing it
at the highest level. They're stillone of the best. But I don't
think that North Carolina has been aslethal in their attack this year. I
mean they haven't. It's proven theyhaven't. They this is the first time
that North Carolina. Yes, theystill made the playoffs, but it's the
first time that they're not number oneseed heading into the playoffs. It is
(30:04):
a remarkable, remarkable streak, butit's also because they haven't been scoring a
lot of goals and they've had torely a lot on their defense and Casey
Murphy, their goalkeeper for the courage. She has eleven shutouts on the year,
but you can't rely on her todo all the work. You can't
make it a one goal difference ina match. You have to be able
to score goals. And I thinkLinn Williams has been off the last few
(30:26):
weeks. I'm hoping that the playoffsget her back into form. And now
that Paul Riley is out of NorthCarolina and they're trying to start over with
a clean slate, and there's beena lot of turnover in the league and
progress being made towards what needs tohappen and player safety focus and transparency.
I'm hoping Linn Williams can come outof her funk a little bit, square
(30:48):
goals and be a bit more relaxed. That's it. She just needs a
massage and tea a glass of wineand then go hit the field and we'll
see some goals from Lynn Williams.So we'll cheer on the Rain and the
Thorns, who are the teams thathave the buys. The Rain will host
the first semifinal. Both games areon the fourteenth of November. Both games
are on CBS Sports Network. TheRain will host Washington or North Carolina.
(31:14):
And I'll save the question I wasabout to ask. I'll put it this
way. The Rains game against KansasCity that they played in the regular season,
one of the goals gets scored,and there's five people in the camera
frame at the same time, MeganRapino, Eugene Les, Jennifer Marajan,
(31:38):
Jessica Fishlock, and Rose Lavelle.And I looked at that and I said,
oh, beat that. I meanit's and and and Laura Harvey is
out there coaching and making it allwork, which is to her great credit
because not every coach on the earth. Some people will say, oh yeah,
just throw the talent out there andlet him play. No, it's
not that easy. But my goodness, I mean, we know they're stacked
(32:02):
there, but now they're really showingit and everybody's playing and they're playing well
together. I mean, it wouldalmost be a waste of a good cake
if they weren't playing as well asthey are, because, like you said,
they have all this talent and theyare so stacked. Yes, so
much credit to Laura Harvey and howshe's been able to bring that out of
(32:23):
those players, because not everyone needsto pull it out of them. But
there are definitely moments when Rose Lavelleshe needs a little nudge to be better
than than she was yesterday. Um, And I think the credit does go
to co Trve in that role.But yeah, I mean, if they
were on the pitch and not doingall these fantastic things, it would be
a bit of a disappointment to befrank. Um. There's times when I
(32:52):
look at their starting lineups and wonderwho plays the six for them. I
mean, sometimes Quinn does, andthey're really it out it obviously, but
there's times when they just sort ofthrow everybody out there and then they just
go stop people. Yeah, Andlike, I don't know what's going to
happen with this, because whoever theybe coming across the country and everything else,
(33:15):
they might go stop somebody. Theymight they might just go stop some
people. I don't know. Ithink they will watch. I think they
will. You're so right about who'splaying the sixth because Quinn they get forward
a lot and they rotate around umthis the midfield is they're they're not set
(33:36):
in positions. And I think thatwhen you have players that are so good
and so talented, like the sixin the middle and the front line for
ol Rain, they are so talented, but they're also really smart, and
they've played with a lot of differentteams and a lot of different people and
for a lot of different years.Because of that, they can see the
(33:57):
rotation that's happening on the pitch.When and Lavelle pushes forward, which she
does randomly streak forward down the fieldwith the ball, who's going to fill
in that hole behind her? Andsometimes we see Rapino dropping in a little
bit to play more of a midfieldrole, and then Fishlock winds up running
and streaking forward as well. Butit's because they're all really smart and they've
(34:19):
seen different formations and a lot ofthem have played forward and have played mid
and have played defensive, and becauseof that, they can find that automatic
rotation and switch through the run ofplay. One other in the underrated stat
category. Speaking of former Stanford players, a lot of cook nineteen games played,
nineteen games started ninety minutes all theway through. She's surely going to
(34:45):
be on that plane to Australia,and she's her time. Her time's coming,
and we've all known it for awhile, to be fair, but
I think now really like we're we'rehitting that horizon now where her times here.
And I'm not trying to retire anybody, but I think we all know
(35:07):
that the US needs center back depthand they need to genue a situation where
they can rotate a lot of centerbacks and be okay. And also,
have you know a few people whoare playing a lot, And I think
Cook's got the talent to be oneof those who are playing a lot.
And I'm not just saying that becauseshe went to high school in South Jersey.
(35:30):
I want to ask about the thornsto close because it's their time.
Not only is it their time ofyear, as we know, they're going
for something that's never been done beforein American women's soccer history, which is
four trophies in one year. Andwe take their success almost for granted.
(35:51):
I feel like, as they've justbeen so good for so long, but
somebody's going to have to bring itup. And again, as I might
be me, I might have toI might have to do this. That
Mark Parsons only got it most twogames left in charge the Thorns. Oh,
it's so sad. And is hegonna get sent off here with the
(36:16):
sweep? Because when they won theICC in the summer, we were all
talking about it. And now it'stime, you know, and it's I'll
let you pick the players this timewho you're watching on this Thorns team.
(36:36):
I mean, we know the bigones obviously, but what do you think
of the ones who are gonna stepup here if they're gonna when they're semifinal
over Gotham in Chicago and then goeast to Louisville and win the whole thing.
But my initial gut reaction truly stickswith the theme that we've been discussing.
Jonathan, We're picking out the sixeson these squads, and you have
(36:57):
to look at Angela Salem when youlook at for it, and it's such
an influential position on the field,and she is someone that her consistency changes
the game for Portland. Yeah,I mean the success they've had on the
fields, it's because they have alot of stars as well, but it's
also because they're all really bought intothe mindset and the foundation that Mark Parsons
(37:21):
has laid at Portland and throughout theThorn's organization is that everyone's brought into this
mentality that they are the best,and they can be the best, and
they can continue to be the best. It's it's not like they don't have
this chip on their shoulder. It'sand they're not cocky about it, but
it's more that they have this unshakeablefaith in themselves as a team and faith
(37:45):
in the players standing next to them, which some teams don't have. You
don't always trust the person that's standingto the left and to the right of
you when you're on the pitch.And what's going to happen when they get
the ball, dow I need tocover for them because they're going to make
a mistake. But when you Portlandplay, they have this faith in each
other and the faith and the teammatesstanding next to them, and this belief
(38:07):
that they're going to do well.And I think it starts with Mark Parsons
and how he's laid the foundation forthis team. And then when you pick
out a player like Angela Salem,she's the glue of this team, and
she's the glue and what brings themall together, and she's right at that
middle of the park to kind ofconnect with the players like Christine Sinclair and
(38:29):
Becky Serbron who have been around thegame for so long, but also teach
it to younger guys in Weber andSophia Smith that are also doing a lot
of that work. Even Mengus hasdone fantastic in the center back too.
But I picked out Angela Salem becausehow could I not. She's just done
so well. Oh, I don'tblame you, And you know everybody talks
(38:52):
about all the star power on thisteam. Of course that's what we always
do. Seventeen goals allowed in twentyfour games this season by the Thorns,
no one else Gotham second in termsof goals allowing twenty one. That is
really stingy and it's no goals Jonathan, and you have to remember that either
(39:13):
on a French was the starting goalkeeper. She goes to the Olympic, Bella
Bigsby steps in, she does afantastic job, and French gets traded away
and now it's the backup goalie whohas had this tremendous season for Portlands.
I'm gonna for one of the nameout there. I'll be real quick about
it because we're gonna wrap up theshow here in a moment. If you're
(39:34):
a listener of this show, areyou getting this show in the sports podcasting
networks overall stuff or whatnot. You'rea casual follower of women's soccer, you
don't. You don't know all thenames necessarily on all the teams. You
need to watch Sophia Smith because you'regonna be watching Sophia Smith for a long
(39:55):
long time. She is one ofmy favorite players on the Thorns because she
is just a classic number nine inI'm gonna I'm gonna put her in the
class with Abuan Back and Alex Morganbecause she's got that much potential in her.
She goes into all the ugly spaces. She goes right smack of MILLI
eighteen yard box does all the hardrunning. She was Portland's leading scorer this
(40:19):
year, with seven goals in twentyone games. She's been scoring. I
know she's been playing on the wingfor the national team. I think that
is only a matter of circumstance andCarli Lloyd and Alex Morgan being around.
The time will come when she isthe starting number nine for flat Gwyanna Knovski
and I think it will be soon. And she has all of the tools
and she's only twenty one. Yeah, that's yeah. The fun fact about
(40:40):
her, she's so young, She'sso much more to grow and to do,
and she's just she's got. Ifyou're a I'm not a tactics savant
person, I'm a I'm a falsefor narratives person, as I mentioned earlier,
But the tactics summons among you.Watch her, focus on her and
(41:00):
you will see all the pieces ofa big time number nine. All right,
we have gone through the six teams. We have done all that we
are supposed to do. You andI both unfortunately have things to get to
rather shortly as we are recording.Thank you so much, for coming on
the show. We will, I'msure, run into each other soon enough.
(41:22):
I doubt I'm going to be ableto make this happen before it starts
snowing. But some Tuesday or Wednesday, when we're all in town, we
should go to Fido Commandeer the OutdoorTV and watch some games in the middle
of the afternoon together and just shootthe breeze and have a lot of fun.
Hopefully we'll get to do that atsome point. Lisa Roman is on
(41:42):
Twitter at l Roman thirty two.She is on CBS Sports and Paramount Plus
calling in WSL games. She ison the Attacking Third podcast. You should
subscribe to that. As I saidat the top of the show, hopefully
it will not be two months beforethe next one of these episodes. I've
been putting a lot into my workat the Inquiry. You all have seen
how much of it has been subscriberonly recently, because hey, we are
(42:06):
trying to get you to subscribe.You may have noticed that. And it's
been some really good stuff, stuffthat I've been really proud of. Especially
Yes, it's true the things I'vewritten about Carly Lloyd and we have,
as you may have noticed, sortof buried the hatchet on some of the
things that went down with me andher in the past, which I'm very
happy about. I got to meether parents at the Gotham game that we're
(42:29):
sitting right behind the press section.That was very cool. They're very,
very nice people, and as yousaw in the video that Steve, Carly's
father did that US Soccer posted,they're just over the moon to be reunited
with their daughter. And I thinkthat's a really, really terrific story.
As Carly Lloyd closes out her careerhere, Lisa, thanks again for my
producer, Kevin larm Up in Montreal, my colleague Dwayne Rawlins in Toronto.
(42:52):
Go listen to Soccer Today to getso much more about what's going on in
the soccer world. I'm Jonathan tannonWald of Philadelphia Inquirer. Thank you so
much for listening to the women's soccerreview here on the Sports Podcasting Network.
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