Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to simply money. Percent of y all worth financial.
I'm am Wagner. When it comes to a loved one,
someone that you care about deeply, getting older, the question
becomes if they need extra help? Do they go to
a skilled care facility? Do you hire someone to help
take care of them? Can you take care of them
on your own? Joining us tonight with some great perspective,
(00:26):
someone who's helped many many families make decisions, really hard decisions,
just like this one. Is our estate planning expert from
the law firm of Wood and Lamping, Mark Rekman Mark.
This is a tough one. It's a business decision, it's
an emotional decision, it's a financial decision, it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well. And the last thing that it is is it
is a tricky decision. What I mean by that that
we all believe that no one can take care of
our loved ones like we can, and Amy, that's simply
not true. It's a myth. And what I've read over
the years of watching this is that spouses tend to
(01:10):
make allows you caregivers, and there's a whole lot of
very good reasons. I'm not being critical at all. It's
just an observation that I have heard other people share
and that I've read, and that I've observed. It's actually
a function of being too emotionally connected. That if you
are emotionally connected to the patient, to the loved one,
(01:32):
it actually limits your ability to be an objective caregiver,
to be an effective caregiver. And it's totally ironic and
no one believes it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
You know, you mentioned the word objective, and I think
that's a really great point. You can't be objective when
you're in that situation. I've seen many people, spouses, especially
who are caregivers, who it's really far beyond what they
can do to help, but they don't have an objective
perspective on that. And I've also seen where children or
siblings see it differently. And I'm wondering what that conversation
(02:05):
looks like or how you can really convince that person, hey,
you've done all you can do and now it's time
to maybe hire a professional. What's a good way to
have that conversation, to broach that conversation, or just to
look at that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
What I tell people amy is and this is something
I've learned from from other social workers and psychologists who
work with the elderly. What I tell people is that
being a spouse and being a caregiver are two completely
different jobs, and that it turns out you cannot really
do both effectively, and so that if you decide to
(02:41):
be a caregiver, most people, in most situations, unknowingly they
addicate their job as a spouse because you're too busy
being sure that the medication is right and the bed
is the laundry has been done, supervising people's activities, and
as a result of that, those are not the sort
(03:02):
of things that a spouse normally does. And when you
fill your heart and your time with those kinds of
caregiving duties, you often lose the spousal love connection. It's
just a different relationship. And what I tell people is
you can hire a caregiver, you cannot hire a husband
(03:24):
or a wife. Yeah, so the one thing that I
bring to the table in my relationship with my wife
is my role of spouse, and no one else can
do that job. But when it comes to caring for
her it should that ever be necessary, that's the one
job I can have someone else's go. And what's more
is I can supervise it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So when you get to that point, right, that's the
one job you can have someone else do. How do
you begin to make sure that the person that you're
hiring is a good fit, is well qualified. Where do
you even start?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, there are really two ways to go. Hire your
caregiver to come into your house and provide care, or
even to come to a facility and provide care for
your loved one. It's nerve racking, it's hard. None of us,
unless we're in the business, none of us know how
to do it well. It turns out there's two choices.
Some people have givers through a home care agency, Others
(04:18):
hire people directly themselves. What I can tell you is
that home care agencies are not cheap, but hiring a
caregiver directly, while it does save you money, it needs
to do. It means that you have to do the
work that an employer would normally do, and if your
plate is full with other duties, that can be a
(04:38):
real burden. You'll need to if you're If you are
the employer, if you decide not to use an agency,
then you need to cover payroll taxes unless it's an
independent contractor, which we'll talk about in a little bit minute.
That's hard, but to be on the safe side, you
also should be doing background checks to cover vacations and sicknesses.
(05:03):
It's not an easy job the employer. The agencies that
do this work provider real service and a valuable service
because they have somebody on site every day no matter what.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So what are the pros and cons as you're looking
at hiring a private caregiver.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
First of all, they're less expensive. It will save you
anywhere from five to ten dollars an hour. Second, you
have complete control over who you hire. That's a pro.
You have complete control over what they do while they're
on duty, that's a pro. There are, however, cons that
come with that number one. If you're the one that
(05:41):
does the hiring, there isn't anybody to cover for vacations
in sick days. An agency have extra people to come
in if the primary person is sick or takes a vacation.
The second con is that there's a fair amount of
turnover in this business. It's a tough business. Givers wear out,
or they move, or they change, they quit, they don't
(06:03):
show up, and so as a result, it's you need
to you need to hire a new person. It seems
like you need to hire a new person all the time.
The third item is that if you're the boss, then
you're providing the supervision. There's no other supervisor and no
one else to do the training. There's no liability insurance
(06:26):
if you're the employer, and so if the caregiver is
hurt in your house, you've got a real problem. The last,
but not least, is that caregivers if you're the if
you're the boss, you've got to file the taxes. You've
got to file Social Security, workers comp unemployment. You've got
to withhold taxes, you have to calculate overtime pay, you
(06:49):
have to do background checks yourself. It's you know, the
the agencies do a real service when they provide these
kinds of support services.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, I'm listening to you with this whole list of
things that you have to do yourself, and I'm thinking, Okay,
you said you can't be the spouse and the caregiver,
but now you're actually the spouse and then the boss
of the caregiver, and that seems to be a pretty
full plate in and of itself.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, well, that's right, and it can be hard, it
can be frustrating, especially if you have a high standard
that you want this caregiver to be perfect. That ain't
that ain't easy.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
To find for anyone who is in this position. Mark
where they're starting to understand, Hey, I'm either the caregiver
or maybe my parents are in this situation is starting
to get out of control. We need help. Where do
they even start? What would you say the first few
steps of this process looks like.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, there are home healthcare agencies all over town. And
it's been a few years since I looked at the statistic,
but the last time I looked, there were over eighty
five agencies operating in the Tri state area. You can
find them on the internet. You can certainly do background
checks with them on the internet. All of the major
hospitals here in town have their own agencies themselves if
(08:02):
they provide this kind of support. And so, frankly, finding
an agency to help you is not hard. Hiring someone yourself, well,
it is hard to unless you know someone, unless you
have an insight connection. You have to advertise, you have
to interview, and you have to find them yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So there's a lot to think through there. Mark any
final thoughts on this topic in what families that are
starting down this road need to be thinking about.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well. The one legal issue that always crops up in
these things is that people say, well, if I hire
this person myself, and if the person I hire operates
as an independent contractor, then I don't have to worry
about this insurance stuff. I don't have to worry about
taxes and workers pomp and unemployment. And that is true
if in fact the care provider is truly an independent contractor.
(08:56):
But that's not an easy thing to achieve. Well, first
of all, it requires at agreement an independent contractor contract.
But more importantly, the IRS reserves the right to decide
whether or not someone is truly an independent contractor. So
you may have a contract with them that says they're independent,
but the IRS it's the final word. And it turns
(09:17):
out the IRS says that you supervise way too much.
This person is not truly independent. Then you can get
a bill for a lot of back BIKA and TITA
and medicare and workers pomp and unemployment. It can be
a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Great perspective from Mark Wrekman or a state planning expert
from the law firm of Wood and Lamping, just objective,
practical advice during a time that can be a pretty
emotional situation if you have to hire a caregivers for
someone that you love. You're listening to Simply Money, presented
by all Worth Financial here in fifty five krs. The
talk station
You're listening to simply money. Percent of y all worth financial.
I'm am Wagner. When it comes to a loved one,
someone that you care about deeply, getting older, the question
becomes if they need extra help? Do they go to
a skilled care facility? Do you hire someone to help
take care of them? Can you take care of them
on your own? Joining us tonight with some great perspective,
(00:26):
someone who's helped many many families make decisions, really hard decisions,
just like this one. Is our estate planning expert from
the law firm of Wood and Lamping, Mark Rekman Mark.
This is a tough one. It's a business decision, it's
an emotional decision, it's a financial decision, it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well. And the last thing that it is is it
is a tricky decision. What I mean by that that
we all believe that no one can take care of
our loved ones like we can, and Amy, that's simply
not true. It's a myth. And what I've read over
the years of watching this is that spouses tend to
(01:10):
make allows you caregivers, and there's a whole lot of
very good reasons. I'm not being critical at all. It's
just an observation that I have heard other people share
and that I've read, and that I've observed. It's actually
a function of being too emotionally connected. That if you
are emotionally connected to the patient, to the loved one,
(01:32):
it actually limits your ability to be an objective caregiver,
to be an effective caregiver. And it's totally ironic and
no one believes it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
You know, you mentioned the word objective, and I think
that's a really great point. You can't be objective when
you're in that situation. I've seen many people, spouses, especially
who are caregivers, who it's really far beyond what they
can do to help, but they don't have an objective
perspective on that. And I've also seen where children or
siblings see it differently. And I'm wondering what that conversation
(02:05):
looks like or how you can really convince that person, hey,
you've done all you can do and now it's time
to maybe hire a professional. What's a good way to
have that conversation, to broach that conversation, or just to
look at that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
What I tell people amy is and this is something
I've learned from from other social workers and psychologists who
work with the elderly. What I tell people is that
being a spouse and being a caregiver are two completely
different jobs, and that it turns out you cannot really
do both effectively, and so that if you decide to
(02:41):
be a caregiver, most people, in most situations, unknowingly they
addicate their job as a spouse because you're too busy
being sure that the medication is right and the bed
is the laundry has been done, supervising people's activities, and
as a result of that, those are not the sort
(03:02):
of things that a spouse normally does. And when you
fill your heart and your time with those kinds of
caregiving duties, you often lose the spousal love connection. It's
just a different relationship. And what I tell people is
you can hire a caregiver, you cannot hire a husband
(03:24):
or a wife. Yeah, so the one thing that I
bring to the table in my relationship with my wife
is my role of spouse, and no one else can
do that job. But when it comes to caring for
her it should that ever be necessary, that's the one
job I can have someone else's go. And what's more
is I can supervise it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So when you get to that point, right, that's the
one job you can have someone else do. How do
you begin to make sure that the person that you're
hiring is a good fit, is well qualified. Where do
you even start?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, there are really two ways to go. Hire your
caregiver to come into your house and provide care, or
even to come to a facility and provide care for
your loved one. It's nerve racking, it's hard. None of us,
unless we're in the business, none of us know how
to do it well. It turns out there's two choices.
Some people have givers through a home care agency, Others
(04:18):
hire people directly themselves. What I can tell you is
that home care agencies are not cheap, but hiring a
caregiver directly, while it does save you money, it needs
to do. It means that you have to do the
work that an employer would normally do, and if your
plate is full with other duties, that can be a
(04:38):
real burden. You'll need to if you're If you are
the employer, if you decide not to use an agency,
then you need to cover payroll taxes unless it's an
independent contractor, which we'll talk about in a little bit minute.
That's hard, but to be on the safe side, you
also should be doing background checks to cover vacations and sicknesses.
(05:03):
It's not an easy job the employer. The agencies that
do this work provider real service and a valuable service
because they have somebody on site every day no matter what.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So what are the pros and cons as you're looking
at hiring a private caregiver.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
First of all, they're less expensive. It will save you
anywhere from five to ten dollars an hour. Second, you
have complete control over who you hire. That's a pro.
You have complete control over what they do while they're
on duty, that's a pro. There are, however, cons that
come with that number one. If you're the one that
(05:41):
does the hiring, there isn't anybody to cover for vacations
in sick days. An agency have extra people to come
in if the primary person is sick or takes a vacation.
The second con is that there's a fair amount of
turnover in this business. It's a tough business. Givers wear out,
or they move, or they change, they quit, they don't
(06:03):
show up, and so as a result, it's you need
to you need to hire a new person. It seems
like you need to hire a new person all the time.
The third item is that if you're the boss, then
you're providing the supervision. There's no other supervisor and no
one else to do the training. There's no liability insurance
(06:26):
if you're the employer, and so if the caregiver is
hurt in your house, you've got a real problem. The last,
but not least, is that caregivers if you're the if
you're the boss, you've got to file the taxes. You've
got to file Social Security, workers comp unemployment. You've got
to withhold taxes, you have to calculate overtime pay, you
(06:49):
have to do background checks yourself. It's you know, the
the agencies do a real service when they provide these
kinds of support services.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, I'm listening to you with this whole list of
things that you have to do yourself, and I'm thinking, Okay,
you said you can't be the spouse and the caregiver,
but now you're actually the spouse and then the boss
of the caregiver, and that seems to be a pretty
full plate in and of itself.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, well, that's right, and it can be hard, it
can be frustrating, especially if you have a high standard
that you want this caregiver to be perfect. That ain't
that ain't easy.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
To find for anyone who is in this position. Mark
where they're starting to understand, Hey, I'm either the caregiver
or maybe my parents are in this situation is starting
to get out of control. We need help. Where do
they even start? What would you say the first few
steps of this process looks like.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, there are home healthcare agencies all over town. And
it's been a few years since I looked at the statistic,
but the last time I looked, there were over eighty
five agencies operating in the Tri state area. You can
find them on the internet. You can certainly do background
checks with them on the internet. All of the major
hospitals here in town have their own agencies themselves if
(08:02):
they provide this kind of support. And so, frankly, finding
an agency to help you is not hard. Hiring someone yourself, well,
it is hard to unless you know someone, unless you
have an insight connection. You have to advertise, you have
to interview, and you have to find them yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So there's a lot to think through there. Mark any
final thoughts on this topic in what families that are
starting down this road need to be thinking about.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well. The one legal issue that always crops up in
these things is that people say, well, if I hire
this person myself, and if the person I hire operates
as an independent contractor, then I don't have to worry
about this insurance stuff. I don't have to worry about
taxes and workers pomp and unemployment. And that is true
if in fact the care provider is truly an independent contractor.
(08:56):
But that's not an easy thing to achieve. Well, first
of all, it requires at agreement an independent contractor contract.
But more importantly, the IRS reserves the right to decide
whether or not someone is truly an independent contractor. So
you may have a contract with them that says they're independent,
but the IRS it's the final word. And it turns
(09:17):
out the IRS says that you supervise way too much.
This person is not truly independent. Then you can get
a bill for a lot of back BIKA and TITA
and medicare and workers pomp and unemployment. It can be
a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Great perspective from Mark Wrekman or a state planning expert
from the law firm of Wood and Lamping, just objective,
practical advice during a time that can be a pretty
emotional situation if you have to hire a caregivers for
someone that you love. You're listening to Simply Money, presented
by all Worth Financial here in fifty five krs. The
talk station
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