Ruthless Depression: WWE's Fanatic Fandom In Crisis Mode

The recent "boom period" for WWE is reportedly "definitely cooling off," characterized by a noticeable decline in advance ticket sales, signaling an end to the company's peak momentum, according to Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer. This decline is mirrored by a growing discontent among the loyal fanbase, who have begun to label the current era—starting with the Raw debut on Netflix—the "Ruthless Depression" Era, a play on the company's past "Ruthless Aggression" period.
This fan backlash, as voiced by groups like Wrestling Allilance, stems from several key grievances: persistently high ticket prices, disappointing booking and poor storylines, and the burden of having to subscribe to multiple streaming services just to watch the company’s full programming slate. Compounding these issues is a perceived creative vacuum following WrestleMania 40, which fans saw as the "season finale of the Roman Reigns era." The company failed to capitalize on the subsequent momentum, with some commentators arguing that an "extremely ill advised Cena heel turn killed all the work Cody did to keep the momentum going."
Adding to the controversy, TKO President Mark Shapiro has endorsed a corporate strategy shift, stating that WWE must move "past" the events created by Vince McMahon's legacy. Shapiro praised the new leadership under Nick Khan and Triple H, citing the creation of the new "Wrestlepalooza" event as a "real winner" that succeeded in merchandise and securing its IP. This controversial call to move beyond the company's established core, coupled with the ongoing creative and financial frustrations, reinforces the notion that WWE is struggling to retain the support of its loyal fandom as it transitions into what fans have defined as the "Ruthless Depression."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:02):
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Com, ruthless desperation, whoa a name your.

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Whether you like it or don't like you learn to
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You have it. Terreugh it and really it is the
best thing going to day well. A worldwide leader of
podcasting excellence. The King of Podcasts Radio Network probably presents
the rests real podcast because of wrestling names.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Acts, looks, ford W's loyal fandom starts attacking me and
going after aw because projection and gas slighting are the
modus operande.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Of you folk.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, the juvenile, delusional fandom out there, the fanatics out
there of that brand. We're gonna talk about them tonight
a lot because they are the core that trickles down
to the rest of the promotions. The way they're handling
John Seen's retirement toward horrible. I hate it, and that's

(01:14):
the way they're going to go into it. Listen, we
know that's the focus for the rest of the year.
What else do they have going into next year? I
don't know. There's not the same old, same old is
not going to work. Which is why over the last
couple of weeks I've been talking about the fact that
Triple H his days are numbered. I said that last week.

(01:37):
The product that they have out there is not working,
and eventually there's gonna have to be a change. Now
TKO needs to have reasons for that to happen. Don't
forget that out soon enough. But now I believe more
and more every day that when Triple H was given

(01:57):
the chance to go ahead and run creative on his
own after Vince McMahon was like go in twenty twenty two,
he ran with it and was able to go ahead
and work with what he had until there was nothing
else left in the creative been for him anymore, nothing
new to think of, which is basically what all these
former wrestlers and Triple H as the booker are at

(02:20):
right now. There's no creativity at the top, nothing fresh
at the top, and the same thing goes for AW. Listen,
AW is not without their own issues. They're back to
the lew they had before last year at this time,
and I actually thought they were gonna pick themselves back
up again, but they're not. With so much of there's

(02:43):
just segnation on AW side. Leading up the full gear.
They have matches set up. Listen, Tony CON's always good about,
you know, setting up whatever fuse he wants. He has
storylines to go with. The question is are the storylines good?
Are they gonna be compelling? Okay, you're going with Maxcaster
Anthony Bowes back together, Let's see what they do. Don't

(03:05):
know who their opponent's gonna be, Stantleoner Moa for the
AW Women's World Title, Hang at a Page versus the
Mode show of the AW World Championship and a steel
cage match. Okay, they've been doing feuds with them, they've
been setting up matches with them. Is it really anything
more exciting or compelling or special? It's better than average,

(03:30):
but that's it. There's nothing. It's wrestling by numbers. It
is safe. There's nothing risky in the booking on any
level of the wrestling card. The only one I feel
like is even taking risks is MLW. That's it. I
just don't know who else there is because I don't

(03:51):
feel it right now. That's what I'm looking right out like. Okay, NWA,
you got the same old You're still running, you know,
shows that are going back a Why Because they're you know,
the time, they're going to do more tapings and do
more things. They're working on it, but they got the
real good channel they're trying to work on it. T
Anda is kind of stuck in a bind right now.
And I mean, you know, they're not doing much after

(04:11):
boun for Glory. We have to wait for what they're
gonna do it Hard to Kill or whatever their paper
view is gonna be Genesis. What are they gonna do
in January? Not much else going on, and of course
Ring of Honor that's an afterthought because that's Tills Tony Cohn.
But Tony Kahn is safe booking no risks with little

(04:31):
chance of the stars that he has on his roster failing,
because there's really not so much of anybody being bigger
than the others or lower than the others. Because in
AW there's parody, which is fine in football, which is
fine out other sports, but in AW we need to
have some stars that are actually just so much at

(04:52):
the top and kid just be elevate. Bringing back to
the mid card, what AW does best, in my opinion
is they have a great mid card and the mid
card is good, but that man event level is kind
of missing right now, and there's the help of having

(05:13):
stars that are able to go and get themselves out
there and resonate outside of the whole mess is like
a different story right now. I mean Kyle Fletcher, you
put them at the top of the card once again,
main event, Kyle Fletcher, Mark Briscoe, No DQ match, Briscoe loses,

(05:33):
he has to join the don KALs family. Don Kylls
family is great. It's again safe, it's nothing risky. There's
nothing being done with any of these stars to push
their characters to a point where they're doing a gimmick.
They're doing a storyline that's gonna absolutely and totally fail
because part of it is Adew has a loyal following,
and really that's what Tony CON's going after. The fans

(05:55):
that are there that are loyal to them. They're going
to work off of that triple H in the same vein.
He's also playing it very safe, no risks. But the
problem on his end is that they have stars that
have been up there in the same level for ten years.
This technicians a little bit less on the side for
aw because there are stars that come into play and

(06:17):
you see some change up at least you see some
new names that come in either that have made it
from the heart, made their way up into the mid card.
There's a couple of different changes. Some of the same
people are still there on aw Ketay Omega, Jurassic Express,
back together, Young Bucks, Okay, so well, Joe's been around

(06:37):
there for a while, he's been champion. Adam Page has
been championed twice. To bring those two back together, okay.
Chris Statlander, former TNT champion now going to this women's
World title mercene. The same thing goes bringing back you know,
Max Caster, Anthony Bones, and like I said, the fresh

(06:58):
part of this year is Kyle Fletcher. To me, he
is a star in the making and growing, and I
already talked enough about what he did at wrestled Dream
and going before that. I just think there's a lot
of good out of him coming up to see what's
gonna happen, and of course full Gear. You also have
the Casino Gatline match, and we'll find out what they're

(07:21):
gonna do for the aw National Championship and how they're
gonna go and build that up and make that important.
But it's another championship being put together. Did we need that.
Do we need women's World tach team titles? No? Absolutely not.
So AW is also not so easy to go ahead
and just say okay, I'm gonna stop and you know,

(07:43):
drop everything on Wednesday night to go and watch Dynamite.
I just don't because you know, the one thing that
wrestling is dealing with right now is it's a whole
lot of sports. There's so much NBA now nationally to
catch it's just impossible. And I mean they're lucky to
have football and for me to go out of my

(08:03):
way to go find Netflix for raw, no, not at
all unless you have Netflix, and I don't have the subscription.
The thing is in the papers, and at least there
are certain things that they do on AWTV that is
at least okay, it's different and it's a little more invigorating.
I think there's a little more energy coming out of them,

(08:27):
but you know, I don't. I mean, you might see
some fresh faces that have come in to w right now,
but like, really they just kind of faltered, like there
is no one they'll be able to go and build successfully,
to get to a certain point and say okay, unless
there's somebody that's truly a favorite now, I was listening
to some clips from Giving a one hundred with Conan,

(08:50):
and you know, makes good points when it comes to
the booking, because of course he's done himself, and he's
also been on the restler side that the trust factor
of which stars that are reliable and loyal to the
booker that the booker's going to go ahead use for wrestling,
and that's not the most wonderful way to go and

(09:11):
do things. Yeah, you're talking about the fact that, okay,
if you're doing promos and you have to go and
get somebody that is not able to go and do promos, well,
might be good in the ring, but can't do the
other ancillary in tangibles that they need to be able
to go ahead and do well. Well, that's a problem too.
So there's all these things that are going on that

(09:31):
are not helpful. But I go into Survivor Series and
I go into Full Gear coming up in a couple
of weeks. I'm just not excited about either of them.
And that's the way we're going to end the wrestling
season this year. In twenty twenty five, we're going out
of this year and going onto twenty twenty six. The
future is uncertain. What is certain is nothing is certain.

(09:58):
I don't know what kind of deal there is. I meane,
for their own part, the peak of them and the
success that they had, the Netflix deal, the new ESPN deal,
getting all the shows now putting as they are having

(10:18):
a big WrestleMania to nice Summer Slam. That's all wonderful.
They've made a boatload of money. But now the peak
is over. Dave Meltzer said it, and whether you like
it or you don't like it, he's right. And I
want to go and play that part where he says
this because I totally agree with what he's saying here,

(10:42):
because honestly, there is no creativity, nothing truly eye popping
or compelling or inspiring or shocking. There's no shocking all
in any of the wrestling right now that everybody gets
to consume on a regular basis. At least for me,
AW has got a little bit more, something more fresh,

(11:04):
a little bit something more that I'm gonna be interested in.
But there's nothing new or fresh at the main event
level that gets my attention right now. I mean, look,
there was the vision over on AW. I like Mercedesene
well a Nightingale obviously, per Russi g Industrial illustrated. They

(11:24):
put out their two hundred fifty the Top Women stars
and Mercedes Bene and Thomas Tony Storm sitting over at
the very top. Yeah, I agree with that two of
the better women, and even the women's blood and Guns fight.
There was a few things to enjoy out of that.
I mean, I thought the way that they you know,
there's a lot to do in these blood and guts matches.
The Harley Cameron thing with the mini Manet that was

(11:46):
pretty funny, with the brass knuckles that was cute. And
then the ending where they had Minister Kawa getting pummeled
with a belt, endlessly being tortured, and then Tony Storm
just throwing it in to save minnasher Ka from further
devastation of further pain to do that. I can appreciate that.

(12:12):
But now let's look at what they've already done so far.
So here is what Dave Milter said several days ago
on restic as a River Radio.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
The peak is over, without a doubt, A lot of
the peak in the sense of this year. I think
it might have stopped a little earlier if it wasn't
for Sena and if scene has really gone, and I
think he probably is. You know, next year, I don't expect,
you know, it's going to be instant sellouts unless you're
talking about you know, Summer Slam and many and all them.

(12:44):
They'll always they'll do well for years and years. But
the rank and file stuff, I think it's going to
be a little bit down. And you know, AW is
still the same. I mean it's not. There's no sign
of a turnaround with AW either when it comes to
those numbers. So it's just that and then you know
the TV numbers. The Monday Raw, which went against Football
in the World Series, was the second lowest that they've

(13:06):
ever done. Collision was tied the lowest that they've ever
done in eighteen to forty nine's SmackDown was the lowest
that they've ever done on USA. Across the board in
pretty much everywhere and every category, Dynamite did a low
number against the World Series, n XT and XT on

(13:28):
Tuesday was not against the World Series and still did
a low number. Although you could say maybe that's election
day and.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
It well, there's more to it, but the thing is, yeah,
the nils and ratings are not helping at all. Every
wrestling show suffered. But it's just just indicative of a
bigger problem, because there are indicators that tell me that
you know things. When it comes to AW, the fan

(13:57):
base looks like they're a loyal fan base is happier,
let's put it like that. I think that's a very
credible and I think it is accurate. I think aw's
loyal fandom is happier with the product they're getting right
now from AW than what the loyal fanatic fandom of

(14:19):
WE is getting right now from THEIRS. It's pretty clear
when you look at what W is getting people right now,
you're starting to go and see where W has to
start kind of working their way of controlling and quelling
the situation that they have right now. They're in a

(14:39):
little bit of damage control. They're trying to fix things.
When you see a trivile H Suck signed behind Triple
H as he's getting ready to go and introduce John
Cena out to the ring for the the for his
final time in Boston, and so they really didn't do
a whole lot with him except for the fact that
let's give John Cena to win the Intercontinental title over

(15:01):
dom Dominum Masterio Fine. I just don't see what the
real use of that is. Okay, the Grand Same championship, Yeah,
to fulfill it's all fulfillment. Does it really do anything?
I mean, you just went ahead and decided to give
don a loss two hundred and four days his Icy
champion and that's it. But even then, for Dominant Masterio,

(15:24):
I don't care about that. For him, I hope that
you know the fact that they take that icy title
off of him. Let's look at something bigger. What I
want to see now is, you know, forget seem Punk
with jay Us. Okay, seem Punk world heavyweight title. I
want dom to take on Sampunk. If we're gonna get
something different, Dominant Masterio right now should be going after

(15:46):
sam Punk coming up. Let's get it started earlier. Make
that the world heavyweight title. Let's get the feud off
of that, and then the eventual break from Judgment day.
I'd like to see that too, like this, see something here,
because that would involve risk, That would involve doing something

(16:07):
where Dominant Masterio now is gonna be exposed to the
fact that you're gonna put him in that main event.
You're gonna take a chance in him being a full
fledged babyface and see how he floats, I mean the fans.
I think you're ready to go ahead and just cheer
for him after all this siver a sudden done. I
think you could turn that around from all the heel
that he's had for all this time. I think you
could do that because his chase for the world heavyweight title.

(16:32):
You could turn him babyface and seeing Punk could play
the heel and they could double turn it and somehow
Someway dominant Mysterio even though he has his animosity with
his father. You could do something with this because I
think that loss of that icy title makes a difference.
I just think you could do something where we need,

(16:52):
we need Asterio to go ahead and take a step
up here and book him there. Well the company do that.
Let a younger star, younger fresher face, work his way up.
He's over. Let him do it already. Let's just get
to that point. We don't need to wait on this anymore.
But my hands are tired. Hey, I'm just a lowly

(17:13):
commentator here making my point. We'll see. But you know,
it's amazing the amount of commentators out there, and everybody
is just really going after Triple H to what they're
doing right now, and a lot of people talking about it.
So now there are stories being written about it. Ringside

(17:40):
News put a story about the fact that the wrestling
boom period is over because of the ratings collapse. And
this is all after what Dave Meltzer said on Restling
Observer Radio. So I'm gonna just take some random choice
war words being put out on X that have been

(18:01):
talked about this, one person saying that both shows have
become hard to watch. My opinion of Magic has gone
too many wrestlers, too many championships, not enough coherence, storytelling,
not enough characters connecting with the audience. Everyone needs to
understand that pressing it is a lot more than title
matches and cool moves, right. But the thing too is
that I think their storytelling being done on the aw side.

(18:25):
Is it being performed well? Some is Some is not enough.
It's not enough to go and say, Okay, out of
all of the things that I'm going to watch, like
a good soap opera, like a good dramatic show, who
are the characters I have to go ahead and watch
every week that I'm like, I'm gonna go tune in
and really check up on not much someone also running

(18:47):
out the ruthless depression era of the w is officially begun,
So everybody's already need to use that phrase now, and
it's starting to pick up. It's starting to catch on
ruthless depression. And then the other part that has to
be talked about here was what was talked about by
Mark Shapiro when he spoke on the main Event with

(19:09):
Andrew Marshan and made some choice comments. Because TKO is
moving on with things, They're not concerned so much about
what is going on behind the scenes, and they're not
gonna worry about it until it's too late. Because now
TKO and their president are definitely making their points as

(19:33):
to how they perceive w right now without Vince McMahon.
They are even saying the quiet part out loud. Now
we want to do what the wrestling Company is going
to be without Vince. So now the main event with
Andrew Marshan, Mark Shapiro said that w you needed to
move past the events that have been creative by vincc maan,

(19:55):
leading many fans to believe the ten polls like the
rumble Mania and somebre singer on the Chopping Luck as
TKO wants to cement their own version of the w brand.
Now look personally to me, I know, there's a lot

(20:15):
of history and a lot of nostalgia and a lot
of that people want to go and have certain things
stay the way they are. There's just the kind of
a way of how WrestleMania season kind of fits. So
let's play Devil's advocate. Let me be out there and
say this, Does it really matter to me if the
Royal Rumble or WrestleMania Summer sam are the same way

(20:38):
that they always are, does it really matter to me?
I mean, if we could have a better takeaway than
what we have now, I mean if the wrestling gets better,
if we get characters, we get gimmicks, we get storylines,
and we get something that feels like something. I gotta
go in and make sure I catch every week, not

(20:59):
just clips on social media, but I gotta go and
sit down and watch the damn show on Monday and
Friday nights. And I know the pay per view is
gonna kick ass. Now I can say, you know, with
the fact that I remember what it was like beforehand,
when we didn't have all these different pay per views. Okay,
you know, I remember when WrestleMania was the only WF

(21:23):
show that we had that we really worried about because
there were other shows they had, but it was like, okay,
then they just brought all their shows that became ten polls.
There was the time we didn't have them. Now, if
we had storylines and things, and we didn't have to
have gimmicks like the Royal Rumble determined a winner who
was gonna go after the world title, if we didn't
have to have that have to be every January, if

(21:44):
we didn't have summersion or the money to make briefcase
or all these other things that are gimmicks to work
up too. Remember, we used to have a thing where
we used to have all these other gimmick matches that
got taken away, Like nobody's talking about hell in a cell,
nobody's talking about extreme rules, all these other things we

(22:06):
used to have that we're hearing gone. I mean, I'm
willing to go ahead and be a little forthcoming and
a little forward thinking and giving the benefit of the
doubt the TKO and saying, yeah, why do we need
to keep doing the same thing the Vince mc mahn did,
Because there's only a certain level of success we're gonna
have keeping it the same way it was, like a

(22:26):
good corporation is not gonna just just can take an
existing model and monetize it. No, they're gonna put their
own stamp on it. So it makes complete sense what
Mark Shapiro says here, So I give that benefit of
the doubt. But now he mentions the success of Russell
Paluza because they did this. He says that an event

(22:49):
like that could turn into a superfranchise which could then
be sold to cities for a major site fee and
a similar manner to how Mania, Rumble, Summer, semis surdvisories are.
Because the thing is, they don't care so much about
what these shows are as much as they are intellectual properties.
They're brands that are very familiar to people, and that's

(23:12):
what people care about. Also, the people that are representing cities,
like if they want a super Bowl, they want to have,
you know, a National Championship or whatever there is, they
want to go and do something like that. Now here's
what we got more. This is a fightful transcribing this
right here from Mark Shapiro quote. They're open to new ideas,

(23:33):
they never seem exhausted. They're ready to take on a
new shot, a new risk, a new opportunity. Hey Nick, Nick,
con let's talk about launching a new event right now.
A lot of our premium live events were created by
the events of a band. We need to get into
the business of taking that torch and moving past that.
And Neked Dribletrus created rest of Balooza, which is the

(23:54):
launch event for our new ESPN deal, which did incredibly
well and may turn into a superfranchise. Not to mention
from merch standpoint, I don't need to tell you securing
the IP rights and then selling merchant Wressel Baluza. Let's
just say it was a real winner. So they created
the Wressel Paluza. You know that that idea, put it
for something that ESPN got to go and put together.

(24:15):
And I get what they're saying where they created the
idea and they could create another major event with it.
I mean, the thing is he's not paying attention at
all to the end ring stuff because as we saw
five matches, did we really care or is Wressell Peluza
ever going to be memorable?

Speaker 4 (24:33):
No?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
In my opinion, absolutely not. But like I said, there
were a lot of things that happened with Russell Paluza
with that deal with ESPN and the amplification of it
and what they've got to put together. Because of the
ESPN deal, they were able to get some real money
off of that, and it was the inaugural start of
the ESPN relationship, and the way it was done made

(24:58):
the company really happy, and they sold it out because
there were a lot of things they put in there
that really got people's interest. And I think that's one
of those things where when you see other things coming up,
I don't know if people are gonna feel so much
about it, feel so good about it now the takeout
on the Sports Solal Stradi and that goes on right
here about that, the fear that was caused by the moments.

(25:22):
It's unsurprising that Mark Shapaier would not be thinking of
moving past some of the most beloved shows on the
calendar of w because they've been making hundreds of millions
dollars taking their shows to Saudi Arabia in twenty twenty
six and twenty twenty seven. Look, we already see that,
you know for some of these folks now, you know,
the fans, they're getting a back seat right now because

(25:43):
they're getting charged so much more. They are getting price
gouged like crazy, and even TKO is gonna have to realize, Okay,
you can only get away with this price gouging so long,
and then the fans are gonna stop buying into that.
I think you just realize there is a threshold, there
is a limitation. You're gonna hit the last straw on

(26:04):
these folks. And I don't care how loyal they are,
They're not gonna spend the kind of money you're expecting
unless you're giving them something that's gonna absolutely be like, well,
we absolutely have to be this show. Because I don't
know what there is compelling about WRESTLMINGIU Vegas that gets
people to say, Okay, the wrestling fans are going to
come to go see it. I don't know. I'm not

(26:27):
sure they're going on saying here that. With running more
overseas based events, remember they've done a lot more events,
they're not doing so many house shows. Those house shows
are replaced now with the overseas events, Clash the Castle, Crown, Jewel,
not a Champions, Fewer standard multipay per views than there
once were, Low Nation Chamber of Running the Bank now

(26:49):
long running franchises playing major parts in the creative process
each year, so it would likewise likewise be surprising to
see them ushered out, perhaps with some large between premium
live events from Saverara series to Royal Rumble Elimination CHIV
to WrestleMania. Shapiro on TIKO had their eyes on bulking
out the calendar in these spaces, while Backlash being the

(27:12):
post WrestleMania pay per view, could also be replaced for
a new found super franchise somewhere down the line. There's
a lot of things that canna be said about what
TKL could do the change things. I don't think they're
done yet. And by the way, that's just what they're
saying on the w side. Let's get into the actual
side of what else TKL Group of Holdings is doing

(27:33):
more because Sports Business Journal has more about what TKO
Group Holdings wants they go and do. We talked about
what they did with their third quarter earnings and at
the moment they raised their full year revenue guidance for
a third consecutive quarter, so they served pass expectations. They
have other segments of their portfolio they're working.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
On right now.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Professional bull the Professional bull Riding Rodeo Circuit on Location
i AMG, which is the premium service for all these
big sporting events that they do with all the concier stuff.
ZUFA Boxing gonna be launched next year. And Shapiro's asked
whether TKO is done with mergers and acquisitions. Are there
any of the companies, any of the franchises are going

(28:15):
to be trying to acquire And TIKO has arguably already
made the answer clear because the actions were portally revolved
and bidding for Moto GP and that was the ended
up being purchased by a different company. And they also
wanted to get involved in the NFL's flag football program. Now.

(28:39):
Morgan Stanley analysts Benjamin S. Windburn on Wednesday asked Mark
Shapiro if TIKO wanted to go out elephant hunting for
more properties, which means are they going big game hunting
to go after some other other properties they can go
and get into and monetize, and Shapiro said, in part,
we certainly have the amble to do that. Look, bottom
line is we are I want to make it clear
nobody here is resting sitting back. That's just not in

(29:00):
our DNA whatsoever. We're focused on the execution story. You
don't want to get distracted, We're not. We want certainties.
There isn't a lot out here that reaches are level,
but we are on the hunt and in the absence
of something to come in to the market, we're going
to go full on with boxing. We have a number
of relationships each daying back decades here with high level
individual's value creators across the sports spectrum, and we're just

(29:21):
waiting to bring people off the bench. But we need
these opportunities to materialize. Yeah, they are looking to go
ahead and do a lot more. So this company is
aggressively seeking more options and they are seeking to go
ahead and the research developing some other ideas. So the

(29:45):
WWE that you've grown up with is going to change
as long as this company is around. But more importantly,
the changes are going to be made if they start
doing wholesale changes. I mean, I don't think your is
going to be a part of this. Let's make this clear.
Nick Con is the real catalyst of all this. Nick

(30:07):
Con is the y s man. He is the go
getter because he's been able to gonna do anything and
everything that w wants Okay, that is the only core
of WS going to be sustainable in this TKO Group
Holdings environment because he's the one, the only the person
that canna actually hang with these corporate suits was Vince McMahon,

(30:29):
and he's not there. I don't know what you do
about that, but that's where the company is right now.
TKO Group Holdings has a lot more to do. They
are aggressively moving forward, but obviously the fans are not
looking at that. David the Greca from Busted Up and

(30:50):
Radio saying, why WrestleMania rob Survivors series of money the
bank leave them alone, please and thank you. No, it's
gonna change. We're gonna see these changes coming soon. Do
not be deceased. It's going to happen. Another personal X
making a point in saying a month ago I said

(31:11):
the build up to the Wargames match was non existent.
A few of the ITWC markets responsible they were rehearsed.
We still have two months to build. I told them.
They changed their tune as we approach, still with no
build and three weeks away right now no build. At
the moment, I haven't even looked at what Survivors strates
war Games is going to be, but it is time

(31:32):
to go and see if they actually have set anything
up so far that we should care about. So let's
look at that real quick. I haven't even taken a
look at what they're going to be doing in San Diego.
I know they're getting close to selling it out, I guess, right,
or doing close of it, I guess. But either which way,
you have the Vision on the main marque of the
posters out there for this, and at the moment, the

(31:55):
wargames matches are somewhat more or less set. They have
a couple of names left to go and put on
each side for the war game matches. But Seampunk Cody Rose,
Jay Uso and two others versus the Vision Logan Paul
and two other people. They'll be involved, So they're trying
to figure that out. Survivor series means nothing right now,
absolutely nothing these wargames matches. That's just another caveat to it. Okay,

(32:18):
So Blood and Guts has their matches first, which is
the same thing as what's gonna do right now, which
is exactly what it is. Two weeks before Survivor Series.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
We have.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
The Blood and Guts matches. Now, that's Tony Connon away
kind of taking some of the heat away for the
Wargames matches because they already got that kind of match already.
I don't know if there's something where they just planted
that way. Maybe they could have, but you know, it's
like what they're gonna do whatever. I think either of
these matches they could go and just take that away. Listen,

(32:53):
dous you roads had a great idea. Do we have
to keep doing it every year?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
No?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
I actually kind of like it if there was something
a little more special, But it's not that case. So
there's not any of the matches that are scheduled or
set up, not much of that anyway. An interesting fact
that came out that somebody put out there a great
little graphic from the performance of SmackDown over the last

(33:19):
three months from October, so from August to October. Caesar
Wrestling put this out, and I think they put a
great this is very interesting graphic. And listen, the numbers
are setting it here. Okay, August first, they were at
one point five to five million viewers, so right around
the time of Summer Slam, one point five to four
and then a drop off once we get the NFL

(33:42):
Season one point twenty five. They got to one point
five million September fifth, and then the drop off from
there one point three to one, and they have gone
down all the way through October, all the way to
October thirty first, with nine hundred and thirty three thousand viewers.
I haven't even looked at the ratings right now for
them at this point, I haven't even looked at what

(34:05):
the ratings have been, you know, since then, we haven't looked.
But let me go look real quickly at Wrestlenomics and
tell you what that is. Because at the moment, the
latest backdown got back over a million viewers again, the
post Halloween episode one point one for one point one
four million viewers. DNA might last week under five hundred thousand.

(34:28):
It's pretty much the same spot as it has been
Collision just under three hundred thousand, which is what was
normally how it was on Saturdays with football last year
and years before. N XT five hundred and twenty eight
eight thousand. Again, they have had a significant change all
these shows with the niels some big data ratings all
took at least about a twenty five percent drop for
the most part, and that's just not good. Everybody's suffering.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Now.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
The other thing we also seen too is that there
are some of this backdown shows people are not going
to them. I have seen over and over a show
coming up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and it still looks
like they're not gonna be able to go ahead and
sell that thing out. They're struggling. And to think some
of those out there in the fanatic fandom out there,

(35:22):
I don't even talk about the fact of how AW
stars are now consuming with titles in the company, Jay
car Gill now Women's World, the w Women's Champion, Seeing
Punk with Ricky Saints and Cuddy Roads all holding belts,

(35:42):
and that's something we said about, like I don't know,
you know, people want to go and stay. As a
shot at Tony Conn fumbling in the dictionary. No, it's
not true. These are all folks that wanted to go
ahead and leave on their own accord, and that's fine,
it's whatever. So some people could go. It's like there's
there's not this real big issue about the people that
have left and what they've done with themselves, Like I mean,

(36:06):
you know, it doesn't really make a difference. Yeah, So
Cody Road seeing Punk, Jake car Gil Ricky, Saints, Ethan Page, Blakemanroe,
all currently champions in W. But it's also the use
of them that's real more than anything else. It's like, Okay,
what are we doing with that? I don't know, it's

(36:28):
just not good. But another person writing out on X
this is also another comment that was put out here.
This is again the little fandom out there. Somebody says,
I knew TKO hated Vince McMahon, but I didn't realize
it was this deep. So if I said to say,
these greedy pigs are doing a great job killing W
with their yes man to relate to their side, they

(36:50):
have managed to throw away almost everything that W made
successful and doubled down on absolute dog dukie, relying on
unconditional loyalty from fans to generate revenue. I hope the
Saudi's buy W and fix it completely. Not really any
other options at this point. No, it's when Triple H
is taken out, when he is removed from his place,

(37:12):
and TKO gripolding says, well, they need somebody else to
manage this because the fan base they have, they're not
buying tickets. Why are they not buying tickets? Triple H Hunter,
what's going on here? And the thing is Nick CON's
not going to be the one to blame for that.
He's done all the deals. He is, you know, completely
immune to all this. The fall guy's Triple H. When

(37:36):
something goes on and hey, TKO realizes, why are we
losing revenue right now on w W Right now we
should be seeing you know, record sales. We got all
these new events going on, We have all these tickets,
we have all the smirch Why are people not going
to these shows? What's going on? Nick? You got to
take care of this. Nick will drop Triple H. And

(37:56):
I won't be surprised that Paul Hammon, Michael ps Hey,
road Dog, all these others they also get dropped as well,
because that wrestling aspect, that's all gonna go, probably for
the better. I really believe that TNA. Okay, was I

(38:17):
completely blown away by my for Glory? No, not necessarily
had a lot of changes, just you know, okay, Mike
Santana's new champion. Not all of the buzz coming off
of that personally to me, TNA for a Bound for Glory.
The official attendance was said was seven thousand, seven ninety
four Brandon Thurston. Wrestlonomics got the real number, which was

(38:38):
fifty five hundred fifty four tickets sold, sixty one thirty
seven scanned, and that included premium seeding, standing room guests,
and their staff also the announced figure. On the AW side,
supporter for them says, your ex to me if your
character and presentation are exact same as they in w

(39:01):
Cope's edge, because he's still Radi our shuper star coming
out to the middle lingas her syndica is exactly like
her business, MX M are exactly the same. On the
flip side, Mox is not Dean Ambrose, Athena is not Embermoon,
Swart Strickland is not Isaiah Scott Thomas toilmy storm is
an AW creation. If I'm supposed to look at you

(39:22):
and immediately connect you to your WE career, your ex
we right, okay. And there was somebody else in here
that I thought I would take that gave some comments
about W overall, and I wanted it's gonna take what

(39:42):
is here. He says that with McMahon, well, I'm gonna
just play back what he says, because he was somebody
that wanted to makes some points about how War, Vince
mcman was significant to the how is right now saying
is the main difference between Vis McMahon and Bleach's head
of recreator this is just Alex that wrote this or

(40:02):
actually recorded as TikTok video and put her on X
as well. Let's go ahe and play this real quick.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
I don't like giving this man a lot of credit nowadays,
but one of the things, one of the things I
appreciated about Vince McMahon was that something was happening every week,
Every raw, every SmackDown had a development. There wasn't this
long spend of time where nothing happened. He made sure
that when you showed up to a show, you got

(40:28):
your money's worth. Triple Edge is more of a slow burner.

Speaker 5 (40:32):
He likes to build to major plot points, although they
don't happen weekly. When they do happen, they're a lot
more impactful, and they also tend to be a lot
more memorable because they stand out more in a year
where nothing much is happening.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
Two different styles.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Both of them have.

Speaker 5 (40:48):
Their perks, both of them have their weaknesses, but there's
got to be a happy median between the two, and
I hope Triple X finds that very soon, because.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
I don't know how I'd feel about that. I mean,
it's trying to go and give credit to both sides,
but we're also about the Vince McMahon that towards the
end some of the creative ideas they had did not
work well. But when you had a big man event idea,
some of those really did kick. And the last one
was a bloodline and for whatever reason, that has been

(41:19):
squandered now and there's just not much to really talk
about at all when it comes to the build up
of Surviarra series or what they're gonna be doing. I mean, listen,
look at what they did with Johnson's retirement tal right now. Okay,
he's gonna have a title to go ahead and run
up against Icy Championship and that'll be defended at Saturday

(41:41):
night Spin event Washington, DC, not in Boston. We're putting
it on a show that's on Peacock that's just gonna
get again December sixteenth. Gonna be lost in the weeds,
and it could have done something bigger with it. I
can tell you that with Vince McMahon, and I'm sure
other people say if Vince McMahon had the way he

(42:03):
would handle John Cena, it would have been much more
grandiose than this. A bigger sendoff would have been. It
would have been the size of how Undertaker got the
gun go because there was not the long ago that
we had Undertaker when he finally finished up for his
last ride and they made a big deal about that
a survivorsers, right, and then that was the big draw.
So he got a good sendoff. Okay, aw to their credit,

(42:28):
the way they sent off Sting was great and right now,
john sne you got that opportunity. It's Vince squandered a
truly horrible heel turn and returning him back as a face,
having him drop the belt and just everything they'd done

(42:48):
with him or booking across the board, thank goodness of
Johnson and knows how to give himself over still because
he's not getting help from the back whatsoever. And so
this term is gonna be going on and like, okay,
whatever again, we're just filling TV shows. But there is

(43:11):
nothing in the current mindset right now if you look
at the storylines that are leading up into Survivor series.
Let's just make sure we get this point here, all right.
So seeing Punk gu So and arrivalry with a Vision,
and that's the whole setup for Survivor Series. At SummerSlam,
Usso with Roman Rains defeated bron Breaker and Bronson Rita

(43:32):
in the tag team match I get out Okay and
Punk Wonder heavery title, Rawls cashing in money in the
bank on Punk to win the title. But then after
that we have to go back to Punk getting the
title after Rawls gets hurt. So there's I mean again
the way they have to go and get back to
the here like the way seeing Punk gets to this

(43:53):
title after all this time, from the lengthy run that
he had to go and do with Drew McIntyre and
that coming out of Saviar series two years ago and
then having this year with Jay us So and all
I'm like eh. Anyways, Russell Balooza a Breaker and read
defeated Ooso on a tack team match, Punk defeeding Rawls

(44:18):
in a mixed tag team match and having they going
to reput the reheat these two in a match that
they didn't involve them because they didn't even involved with
each other before off and on just bring the women
into it. Then Cody Roads facing Rawls of the Crown
Jewel for the Crown Dual Championship. Rawls wins Striking Roads

(44:40):
with a Rolics watch, and so Cody Roads off to
his own thing and like, okay, what is he doing.
He's just sit in the background, like there's nobody for
him right now to go atcher and see him Punk.
Now you got Logan Paul brought into the mix, because
the other thing too, is that you know, I guess
the thought was Rawls was gonna still be around with
Punk and they were going to compute a DA with
the world title in the hands, but not look at

(45:03):
Paul's in the mix because they gotta do something. Then
you get Breaker, Reid and Hayman turning on Wrongs and
the exile and nothing has really meant much from that
turn on Ron's is just an injury angle. So now
vision they don't mean so much anymore at all. I

(45:25):
don't care if Paul Ham is a part of the group.
I mean bron Breaker is still in the background, because
then you got Logan Paul, who's more in the forefront
going out of the world heavily title. Other than that,
it doesn't matter. Bron Breaker can't be in that role
yet they don't think he's ready for it whatever, but

(45:46):
that's a risk worth taking, just like it is with
Dominant Masterio. If you're gonna go ahead and make him
move off, look the icy titles off of him. Now,
why is he going into the mix with Punk to
go after that World Haveweight title? And why is it
bron Breaker in the same vein trying to go to
that world have weeight title? You don't want to go

(46:08):
to that yet? Okay, to let Braun and dom take
on each other. I mean, let's do something different here.
As I was starting off earlier. We could get back
to something like that. We can. I don't know why
they don't want to so Logan Paul, as we talked
about when Punk beat Usso at sturtay n Spin event

(46:31):
to win the vacated title Punk, I'll interrupted by Logan
Paul wants a title shot. And then the Vision comes
out and the visions say they're next in line for
the title. But we then know that Logan Paul is
now aligned with the Vision. Can't say if he's actually
a member or not. But still bron Breaker Bronson read it.

(46:54):
I'm not looking a bron read it is a title,
you know, contender. No, but bron Breaker should be. But
he's gonna get staged by Logan Paul, who I'm sure
from takeyog Brass. They want to see him there in
a match like this. They don't want to see bron
Breaker because they don't see him as drawing money and
Trible Ah doesn't see him as drawing money either. But

(47:15):
whose fault is that? But Triple H and Paul Hayman.
Paul Hayman obviously being involved with the storyline. Why aren't
you getting your guy up there to go to the
World Heallway title? Why are we not doing that? Why
does it have to be Logan Paul. No, you haven't
done anything to get bron Breaker to that level after
the Icy title joining the Vision, he has done nothing.

(47:37):
He has accomplished nothing. He's played an enforcer to Ronald
who ultimately got hurt. Now he has to play in
false enforcer for Logan Paul. That's what he is right now?
Why he wants to see that? Are people really happy
with that part? And then on the women's side, you
got reverbally rivalry with the Kabuki Warriors, especially with Oscar

(48:01):
and as if we've had enough with those two and
then El Sky coming back once again. You have Alexabus
and Charlotte Flair dropping the world tag team titles, the
women's tag team titles, and Cobuck Warriors now once again

(48:21):
win the tag team titles. After there was interferenced by
Nia Jackson Last Legend who are now are apparently a
team EO Sky coming back in re Ripley challenging the
Combuckier Warriors, Lash Legend and Nia Jackstraw Wargamest match, and
we Ripley no nowhere involved in a title. She's just

(48:45):
kind of like in the mix squandering her as well.
Bianca Blair nowhere to be found. Becky Lynch kind of
just stole off in their own thing billion layer of
Vikaria Lyra Valkaria whatever. They're also kind of loss and
a lot of her carrier that was the one star.

(49:05):
It looks like I think this year that you could
have said was really pushed hard. She failed, but she
didn't fail to the point that that she's dropped all together. No,
she's partnered back up with the Bailey right now because
that's what they're gonna do. But like that push they
had with her as a champion, Yeah, they gave her
that icy title, the women's Icy title, and let her

(49:28):
run with it, and they put her on their Rebecky
Lynch and try to make something out of it. But
I think I guess they still got plans for her,
so like they put a risk on her and why
because there's favoritism in that because of Becky And that's it.
But everything else we have right now not much. It's
just disappointment and it's very tough to be a wrestling

(49:55):
fan right now. We do not have much to work
off of. Like what we're gonna go through is this
roller coaster drop of momentum of success, of excitement for
what the wo who's been doing. Like it's gonna be
an amazing look back once we get past Full Gear

(50:18):
and Survivor series about how far? How far have we
fallen as wrestling fans with what we're being given right now?
Like I said a couple of weeks ago, I was
praised in fact that MLW is putting out good pay
per views on YouTube for free. They're giving us papperyew quality,
giving us risks. Listen, they're putting out Matt Riddle out there.

(50:40):
They don't care. They're gonna go with it. They got
Killer Cross that's gonna get a chance they canna be
put out there, and noticed they're giving Shatsi Blackheart a
shot out there to be a big deal in the
women's division. Matt's cruel. Krueger is your World haweight champion
and they're making a big deg about him right now.
And you know there was always talking about like certain
these kind of stars right now, can you do look

(51:02):
at Undertaker Kine type of character with a full gimmick
and Mad's cool Krueger right now, they're putting all the
effort into him because they putting a lot of time
in that character, and now they got him at this point,
there's big seven footer. They put the belt on him,
see how he goes along with it. And like I said,

(51:22):
there were the other stars that are these pillars that
can be part right now and they're just not. We
don't have any Jacob Fattou, which is really hurting right now.
I mean there's injuries right now that certain stars that
are not helping at all either. We got to make
that point clear too. But I'm sorry, Elia Dragonow is
not going to be the answer. You know, La Knight
for whatever happened to him, He's been put by the wayside.

(51:45):
Now he's not that much of a deal anymore. He's
stepped away for whatever reason. You don't hear much about him.
But I mean, if crowds are all happy about the
fact that, oh, look, Johnsoner makes history, he's Grand Sam Champion,
does that really make any difference? No? Not really. I

(52:06):
mean even the way they went ahead and put the
match together where John Cena gets frog splashed and automatically
and get the sena superpower to do an AA onto
Dominic and one AA was enough to go ahead and
make him win over Dominic. I don't know if I
necessarily like the way they booked that, but people were
all into it. Boston was really happy about it. Okay,

(52:29):
so whatever. And then you had to set up for
surviur series with Punk J and Cody against Logan Brown
and Bronson and they're brawling each other whatever the normal
kind of sticky would normally have. And I do want
to say this too about Blake Monroe. I't how much

(52:51):
we can love the character. There's something telling about what
they did on NXT this week and the setup of
now two different sides of Blake Monroe and how they
put that together, and yeah, she's a champion over there,
and she's on NXT right now. She's a star over
there when she deserves to be on the main roster.

(53:14):
I don't know why they don't want to put her
up there, but interesting one of these decid they're going
to do with the split personality here, the good and
bad Blake Monroe, and how they said they're going to
do this, because honestly, it sounds like Blake Monroe is
talking to Mariah May. This listened into a little bit.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
I was so excited when I got your message. You know,
I always carry you with me. And look what I
got us, And don't kiss my ass, Blake, Congratulations the
glima new NXT Women's Nordimerk champion. How's victory taste still
is just darling? I mean it's everything I deserve and

(53:51):
the glamor does always get what she wants. They all said, oh,
Blake Monroe, she's just a look and I prove it
more than that. I'm power pals slips through moniculed fingers
and I mean deserved. Such an interesting word, by the.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Way, And then you look at what this sounds like.
This other side of Blake Monroe. It's the Mariah May
that's learned from Tony Storm. I don't know if that
was like some kind of an eraagor what they're doing,
but you know what, something to be said about where
Blake Monroe right now feels like, Okay, do we feel

(54:31):
good about the fact that she's still like in this
kind of role right here when at the end of
the day, one of the best feuds that we had
in the women's division of any promotion was timeless Tony
Storm against Miriam May the Hollywood ending and this clip
that still gets my interest is one of the most

(54:53):
compelling things we've seen and resting in a while, this match,
this feud and the culmination of it with this promo,
the face, the face they had beforehand, and Tony sarm saying.

Speaker 7 (55:04):
This, you do not deserve the dignity of death.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
I sentence you.

Speaker 7 (55:10):
To a lifetime of mediocrity. Your life will continue, your
career will continue, and it'll be good but never great.
People will like you, but never love you, because the
star that you are will not compare to this monster
that you've become. So you will dwindle, be replaced, and
be forgotten. Then one day, many years from now, someone

(55:33):
will ask whatever happened to Mariah May she found out
what happens when you try to kill God?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
So on you it still holds Tuesday. I'm glad Maria
blakeman Roe is happy to be in the w right
now under the nxty banner. Great for her, because the
other thing, too is I think there's that of the
fact of okay, well, we can't have two blonds up there,
you know, all Busty up in the main roster and

(56:04):
Tivioty Stratton. Obviously, I don't know what happens to her
if she gets dropped down the ladder a little bit,
because I think there's a gonna be some point where
blateman Roe is going to be the the nicer looking
option among the two, because blakeman Roe has better promo skills,

(56:24):
works well in the ring, and she's just established and
Tivioty Stratton might not hold that up to so long.
I mean this, when she was champion, they put a
good gimmick on her, an NXT under the Rainbow brand,
and then they just started chipping away at it, chipping
away at it, and now what is she you know,
after the whole thing go Charlotte Flair, and now Harriger
dropped the belt. I don't know. Jake Cargo in five

(56:49):
minutes quickly squashes her and we're done with that, and
who knows what happens to her next. I don't know,
but I feel very weary about what we have coming
up soon for wrestling. I just don't know what to
think right now, but I'm just not very happy with

(57:10):
about it. But you know, I feel like I got
to sound the alarm on this, and I hope you
realize Listen. I went after both sides, okay, aw also
with their own issues, no doubt about it. But we're
going on the two pay per views coming up at
the end of this month. I'm not excited much about either.

(57:30):
They could do a lot better. Anyway, come back for
another Wrestling Room podcast because the wrestling needs up