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August 14, 2025 62 mins
KOP argues that the TKO Group's business strategy, which combines the assets of WWE and UFC, is focused on securing maximum television and streaming dominance at the expense of talent and competition. 

New UFC Deal with Paramount+We look at the recent, historic seven-year, $7.7 billion media rights deal between TKO Group and Paramount for UFC content, beginning in 2026. This agreement is seen as a major power play, as it moves all UFC numbered events and Fight Nights exclusively to Paramount+. This move effectively ends the previous pay-per-view model, making all UFC events available to Paramount+ subscribers at no extra cost. The commentary suggests this massive deal not only secures a dominant position for UFC on a major streaming platform but also gives TKO significant leverage and influence in the sports entertainment landscape. This is presented as a clear example of TKO's strategy to consolidate its market position and drive subscriber growth for its media partners, further solidifying its "TV domination."
WWE Parting Ways with Karrion KrossKOP highlights the release of Karrion Kross and Scarlett as an example of "Kicking Out Talent." Following weeks of speculation, both Kross and Scarlett confirmed their departure from WWE. The commentary suggests that this decision was a result of Kross's creative frustrations and a breakdown in contract renegotiations. Kross himself reportedly expressed disappointment with his creative direction and revealed that he had been in discussions with the company about a new contract since January. His release, especially given his recent main roster run and past success in NXT, is framed as a talent-relations issue under the TKO banner, where performers who are not seen as part of the long-term plan or who express dissatisfaction are released, regardless of their potential.

WWE's Counter-Programming StrategyWWE, under TKO, continues to be actively engaging in "Intimidating Opposition" by strategically scheduling major events to directly compete with AEW's pay-per-views. Two specific instances are detailed: * AEW All Out vs. WWE PLE: WWE is reportedly planning a premium live event (PLE) to air on the same night as AEW's All Out. The rumored main event for this WWE show is a high-profile matchup between John Cena and Brock Lesnar, a move clearly intended to draw viewers away from AEW's event. This aggressive scheduling is seen as a direct challenge to AEW's business model and a demonstration of TKO's willingness to use its biggest stars to stifle competition. They also plan a similar tactic for AEW's Worlds End event. Reports indicate that discussions are underway for John Cena's final match to be held on a "Saturday Night Main Event," running head-to-head with Worlds End. This would be a major blow to AEW, as John Cena's retirement match would undoubtedly attract a massive audience and media attention, potentially overshadowing AEW's show entirely. This is presented as the ultimate form of "intimidation," using a once-in-a-lifetime event to cripple a competitor's major show.In summary, the commentary paints a picture of TKO Group Holdings as a ruthless and calculating entity focused on maximizing its market share through strategic media deals and aggressive competitive tactics. 
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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Check one too, got it.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Podcasting since two thousand and five. This is the King
of Podcasts Radio Network, King of Podcasts dot Com.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Another week, another TKO TV deal and w does a
double cross. WHOA he isn't the name you for request
and believe it or not. Whether you like it or no,
like you learn to love it because.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
You have to listen to wrestling and really it is
the best day going to day. WHOA A worldwide leader
of podcasting excellence. The King of Podcasts Radio Network probably
presents the Wrestling Is Real podcast because wrestling Dave sucks.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
This is episode nine hundred and fifty one of the
restig their podcast. Welcome to the program King of Podcasts.
Here with you, King of Podcasts dot Com. At the website,
of course, you can find wherever you find this program
and all my other concept of the King of Podcasts
Radio Network, whether it be on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, YouTube, Music,
iHeartRadio and all the platforms and the course on YouTube,

(01:08):
the major platform YouTube at King of Podcasts. You can
find all the content there. Okay, Now there's a triple
threat of narratives going on this week, and we have
Triple Mania coming up this weekend. So there's a couple
of things that will go all triple tonight, but there's
a number of stories we're going to go in covery.
I want to just go and lay it out real quickly.
Number One, the importance of TKO's new deal getting the

(01:32):
UFC over to CBS and paramount plus to the tune
of seven point seven billion dollars. That's incredible, along with
what the money they're making right now with WRIE. But
the thing is, I want to focus just on the
fact of what that's going to mean now for TCO
and the kind of money they're going to be drawing
in now as a result for doing all this. And

(01:54):
they're also a deal with Boxing they're trying to set
up as well in Saudi Arabia, which was a plan
that Nick con had set all together. And this all
being done before his contract comes up to be either
renewed or who knows what Nick Kon could do. I mean,
I don't know why he would leave right now with
the kind of money and lucrative deals they're coming into
play right now for the next five years at least.

(02:15):
But we need to look at where w stands now
in the full context, because when we talked about the
financial numbers of TKO a few months ago, the TKO effect.
I talked about the acount of money that was be
in place for TKO Group Holdings because they were holding

(02:35):
on the three I mean three billion dollars three million
dollars in debt or three billion dollars in debt right
because of UFC after they acquired it. There was debt
they acquired along with the deal. And right now this
broadcast deals unless that's actually going to turn things around
and if the USC will in fact actually make more money.
And what's more important than that is that the pl

(02:57):
model for UFC, which always was a big ticket item
for pay per view, that papery model is starting to
go away. This second story is carry on cross who
regardless of anybody thinking that this might be a work.
And I've heard enough people out there, dirt sheets, podcasters,
all that listen. All of you want to be in

(03:18):
that juveitile, delusional fandom alongside with them, and you want
to think that W is so smart that they're going
to put a work on us like they did with
Seth Browns with an entry and say, oh, this is
what's gonna happen here, so they're gonna think, all right,
you saw what Ron killing is, what happened to him,
who legitimately was not a contract, but then popular demand

(03:38):
brought him back. Second, you have Seth Brawn's saying he
got injured only to go ahead and cash in and
become world heavyweight champion. Okay, Then you have that part
where I had already said it was a work when
I said with Ron Killings, I believe there was a shoot,
and then they brought a back to try to play

(04:01):
it off like it was a work. Right fast forward
today to carry Across who we learned it of August tenth,
and there's a couple of clips from the Ariehjwuane Show
because carry On Cross appeared on that program today as
we're recording and spoke out about it. There's a lot
of clips to get into tonight in context with everything else.

(04:22):
And then finally the idea that w right now wants
to continue to go ahead and bully and push around
the number two competition in aaw for whatever reason. So
now apparently they're going to do a show. I believe

(04:42):
that they are saying as the Minneapolis athough it is
and it would be in September, a pay per view
that was not scheduled to go up against All Out
because they want to do that. And then they're looking
to go ahead and put a pay per view which
they didn't even plan to have a pay per view
in December and put it up at World End up
against World's End because they want to put John Cena's

(05:04):
final match on that card. And by the way, the
September card that they want to go to put up
against aw all Out, they want to put John Seen
and brock Lester, the match we already know is going
to be set up coming out of Summerslim. They're gonna
put that match right there. That's their plan. Amazing, it's petty,

(05:26):
it's really petty to see that the company wants to
do this, but they're they're just gonna do what they want.
There's no autonomy, there's no honor among corporations, never especially
a tyrannical company like TK A group hold existence for
all the accolades that can give them on be able
to make some big scoring broadcast deals as they've been

(05:50):
able to do. They've proven time and time and again
how they've been able to do that. And I must
say they do a pretty damn good job with that.
Now our Emmanuel and the Mark Shapiro believe they'll Actually
Mark Shapiro is here and he's speaking with CNBC about
the TQU Paramount deal. So let's go into this right

(06:12):
now and take quickly what was being said about the
P one model, because there was a lot of things
being said. Let's just take something quickly for the announcement.
As CNBC spoke with them, I will say the following.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
We started out actually at Paramount with Spike way back
in the day twenty one years ago. Moved all of
our fans to Fox, built that business, moved them to ESPN,
built that business, started out at three million. Now the
twenty five million something like that. Our fans move and
the business of TKO from Mark and I is kind
of purpose built for where streaming and the and the

(06:47):
Marcus said at Netflix they want big events. So we're
going to do the boxing event in September and you
got to go all you know there and they had
it internationally. ESPN wanted a big event, our big event,
which is our plas basically they got. Now David wants
to build a streaming service, we want to broadcast. We
wanted to get rid of the old model of pay
per view. That's what Tiko as we've envisioned it.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Along the sports, they're basically just reconfigurating what the dynamic
is with live sports and combat sports as we've seen
them on pay per view. They have successfully no longer
will have to rely on putting an extra ticket price

(07:29):
on the pls, the premium live events, whether it's USC
or W right now, because now they've moved it off
the bottle. The model's down, not even there. And part
of the commentary that was being said was the fact
that what he is on there right now for premium
live events Logan Paul fights or fights that go on
you know that startup midnight boxing matches, And it's true,

(07:51):
it's very true. And so now Tiko Group Holdings has
made it. Let's get into what they've done. So I
did some research on what the evolving sports landscape is
right now. Now we've talked about this, we're going to
go into a little bit more here. Overall summary, W

(08:11):
right Now currently has new their flagship programming with Monay
Night Raw on Netflix, Friday Night's Backdown on USA, NXT
on CW. Premium Live events moving from Peacock to ESPN
in twenty twenty six, securing new homes and substantial increases
of value on all those deals, notably especially for Netflix

(08:34):
for Raw, which against the deal that they're getting basically
a billion dollars a year for and the PLS which
they're making three hundred million dollars for those. Now USC
has their domestic broadcast rights moving from ESPN to Paramount
Plus and CBS and a landmark agreement that only doubles
their annual media rights but shifts their distribution model away

(08:56):
for traditional pay per views in the US. So now
they're going to get a step stantial lift in annual
media rights, revenue, enhance, financial predictability, and stability. So this
is everything for them. So let's make sure we know
all the numbers here and try to doll them all up.
So Monday Night Raw right now was on USA Network,

(09:21):
and originally they had it for two hundred and fifty
to two hundred and sixty million dollars annually, with some
estimates being getting around to sixty five. Then Friday Night's
backdown was at getting a billion dollars total over five
years at approximately two hundred and five million million dollars
at that point. N XT originally was going for thirty
million dollars between thirty fifty million dollars on USA Network

(09:42):
and then the premium live events with Peacock. The deal
is sending right now either the end of twenty twenty
five or March twenty twenty six, one hundred and eighty
million dollars a year, So that's what they have now.
But the new deals that are now in place, so
let's just make sure we see how much money they're making.
Ten year, five billion dollar deal right now with Netflix

(10:03):
for Monday Night Raw, and of course also the deal
includes the fact that the all programming of WWE goes
to everywhere else around the world internationally. They don't have
to worry about doing individual broadcast deals. Netflix is carrying
everything for them international broadcast rights as backdown NXT original,
the w content, and premium level events for all international

(10:25):
outside of the US, outside of North America. I'm pretty
sure then Friday's back down their deal one point four
billion dollars over than the five year term two hundred
and eighty million dollars annually, so they're making out this
is on the average right now five hundred million dollars
a year for Netflix on their deal right there, remember,

(10:45):
and that is for the international rights, all the international
carriage of all their content and for raw on Netflix
added up, now we're seven hundred and eighty million dollars
two hundred million dollars anyway for USA network. And then
NXT another five year deal and the value, if I

(11:07):
remember seeing it was between thirty fifty million dollars again,
keep moving that up. Let's just round it up and say, okay,
let's make it nine hundred million dollars right now. And
now the new ESPN deal, which again originally one hundred
and eighty million dollars on Peacock, now three to twenty five,
three hundred and twenty five million dollars annually, over one

(11:30):
point two billion dollars guaranteed. On broadcast deals one point
two billion dollars guaranteed. And that's everything there, and for
the ESPN deal. Just to give you some more information,
so a Love events in the US begin in twenty
twenty six, all Marquee events, and this will be available

(11:53):
on ESPN's new direct to consumer streaming service. We talked
about it all last week. Potentially even select events will
be someone cast on ESPN's line and networks doubled, almost
doubled the deal that they had for pay per views
just like that. That is crazy. And I remember these
deals are all set up now where they're five years

(12:17):
locked in guaranteed smack down an xt PLS Mondaynight Raw
is a ten year deal, but it's five years to
extend to ten for the next five years. They get
one point two billion dollars. That's astronomical. And the UC
has just gotten a deal that's amazing in its own

(12:40):
because the deal they got them ull see got more
money or as much money now inheriting TQO, inheriting USC.
The deal they got for them five hundred and fifty
million dollars was originally set up and that goes to
the twenty twenty five and US was important because that's

(13:01):
what helped to build up on ESPN plus the services
sent out and launched and twenty eighteen, and it helped
a lot to build that platform to lead to the
next phase of ESPN OWT today with the new ESPN
Directed Consumer app, which is the direction you need to
go to the new deal. Now, keep this mind, as
I said, one point two billion dollars and the USC

(13:22):
runs less events than w does, right, But the importance
of this is the new UC deal. Paramount is said
to become the exclusive US home for all UFC events
under a seven point seven billion dollar media rights agreement
starting in twenty twenty six. Average, they're going to make

(13:43):
one point one billion dollars with less content, the content
that you have to go and do the events. Right now,
for UFC, there's thirteen marque numbered events and thirty fight
nights accessible to describe as a payout plus with a
basis subscription as slickt the number events will be someone

(14:03):
guests on CBS, but they don't even have as much
programming as WE does. But what they did very here
was to set up this deal right here for UFC,
the UFC has more value than W does for a

(14:25):
lot of reasons. Number one, most importantly is that UFC
is a legitimate support You have a more stringent, stronger
adult audience there. Of course they were always wanting to
make or TKO would try to go ahead and mesh
both sports together. But then with UFC you also have gambling.

(14:49):
Legitimate gambling can be done with the UFC. That's why
people really care about it. So much. And imagine if
TKO does something to where they're over to go and
get themselves and bettered into Well, the thing is the
advertiser they can get for USC as well. They can
definitely get betting, they can get gambling onto their platform,
which they already do now they're is t tythnically more advertising.

(15:12):
The AARs they can get for USC as a result,
because when you look at the advertiser W gets, Yeah,
there's still kind of a little bit of the shlock,
and they always get right certain movies, certain products, you know,
prime energy and all these other things right. But you
know they're getting hard lemonades and Seltzers things like that,

(15:33):
which doesn't make money, they'll get me wrong. But UC
can actually command more money on advertising, probably more value
for their advertising. So let me put a d like this.
What this all means is that for TKL Group Holdings,
USC now officially becomes priority cynically more priority over W.

(16:00):
So in the hierarchy of things right now, W cannot
afford to falter like UFC. They just need the stars
they have right now, and they just do the matches. See,
UFC can just do their matches and set up set
them up as they want as just regular matches. But
for we, okay, they have to go along with this

(16:24):
preconceived predetermined match notion. Okay, it's still not real. There
might be reality. Things are realistic things of course in wrestling,
but they are based on the circus of storylines and
character development, and at this moment they're very limited on that.

(16:45):
And for UFC there is no competition. Bellator is not
even in the picture right now, and one of the
combat sports not really UFC owns combat sports right now,
no longer a factor until boxing becomes something that will
be a compliment to the TKO Group Holding's portfolio. But

(17:08):
now you has to understand, Hey, you got the broadcast deals.
That was what TKO Group Holdings was able to provide
for you. Okay, these are the things that this BigMan
could not do. This man can give us the spectacle,
the pomper circumstance of WrestleMania and the events that we

(17:29):
got out of that as well. At Triple H and
his team have inherited it. But they have to be
understanding the responsibility and accountability they have right now to
be able to keep up with the UFC, which has
an easier road to go by. Meanwhile, that's not the
same to be said for W because they can have lulls.

(17:53):
They have competition, So there's some justification from TKO for
the fact that they need to go ahead and squash
their competition. They're not even worrying about using NXT anymore
now to put a buffer up against AW because it
didn't matter. AW all in still got one hundred and

(18:14):
one hundred and eight thousand buys on pay per view
and they got a great crowd, so it didn't work.
NXT is not gonna work. So instead now they're gonna
use their main roster, and this time they're not gonna
use their main roster. They're gonna use their biggest, one
of the biggest draws right now, John Cena. They're gonna
use the retirement tour to go up and counter program

(18:36):
against AW. They're doing that to survive because the company
right now has one point two billion dollars in broadcast
deals in play and they have to deliver for the
next five years. And the trajectory the direction this company's

(18:58):
going this will not work. The current set up of oh,
let's go and get La Night out there to peep
up with seth wrong with cm punk to go against
Seth Wrong's or his minions right in the vision with
Bron and Braun right, Uh uh Bron Braun, that's not
gonna work. The MFT sending them up and doing things

(19:21):
that's not gonna work either. W's gotta think bigger. That's
a lot of money they're getting invested in them, which
is to the credit of they're betters. To quote Stephen Regal,
they're betters. Okay, those people TKO Group Holdings. They got

(19:43):
that company a lot of money. And you know what,
when you had the deals that you had before, which
was just short of a billion dollars, and you had
NXT and spack down on and raw in USA and
you expeck down on Fox and Events was still around. Hey.
The one thing was that was an issue for under

(20:04):
Vince for SmackDown was the fact that they couldn't get
the advertising dollars. They couldn't get enough advertising to warrant
more of the deal. The ratings were okay, the ratings,
they were number one of their time and what their
demographic was and what they were trying to do, so
that actually worked for them. Fox probably were satisfied with
the ratings numbers, but the advertising dollars did not match.

(20:27):
They did not compute, so that's why that deal was lost. Otherwise, Tiko,
you know, an original set up with Nick Cohn and
what he did a good foster the deals before. Yeah,
they worked. But these people that go ahead went and
sold these packages, got the commission on these packages to
get these deals done. They did their job right with

(20:48):
Vince McMahon. They brought in a bunch of savages. Okay,
these are sharks in TKO to build a go and
get these massive lucrative broadcast deals. They are good at
what they do, okay. And the idea of the portfolio
are Emmanuel, Mark Shapiro, Nick con that whole group right there. Man.
They are smart and they're ruthless. And I'm saying right now,

(21:10):
Triple H time is numbered. Right now, his time in
creative is numbered. I don't think it's gonna be there
for that long because with all this responsibility here, I
don't think he's gonna be set for that. Somebody else
is gonna be in. And I'm telling you the rock
must be in something placed in this because i think
if anybody's gonna be a wrestling mind is gonna be
probably still around by the end of this broadcast deal.

(21:35):
My guess is the Rock and whoever he decides to
go to bring on board, and that's what I think happens.
The Rock will still have leverage five years from now.
I think he'll still be very important in that board
of directors, and I still think that he will have
a swinging interest into the wrestling, into the TV product
that comes. Because if w thinks they're gonna just continue

(21:59):
to along with Triple Agent's direction, he can't think big
like Vince McMahon. He's incapable of that. It's very clear
they're just kind of like trying to satisfy the company
because Triple Age has an autonomy here, he doesn't. They've
been kind of left alone to their things. But guess
what next year. I mean, they've already had a little

(22:22):
bit of maneuvering and things going around where you know,
they have taken shape into the company itself, the direction,
the way the show's shot, the way it's presented, and
also doing some deals he's already done so far with
some of the talent and how a lot of people
have been cut out. And we have a juvenile, delusional

(22:43):
fandom that doesn't understand what's going on here and what
this means. I'm trying to bring this into context for you.
I want you to understand this and be clear about
this what they've done. Now, let's move along into what
happens next. So again, the usc deal that just happened
now with Paramount plus CBS Skydance that is set with

(23:03):
forty three odd events. We're not taking ultimate fight. We're
talking about anything else. Right, It's those events, live events
that can be bettered on that can get some large
advertising dollars. The fact that we even put on the
Tivity Network's CBS that's huge. With less content, PKO got

(23:28):
more money, more money per dollar. We has to go
and put out extra content, right, Remember they gotta go documentaries, specials,
the Unreal series, things like that. They got to go
to on a regular basis. And they have to go
ahead and churn out two night events four times a year,

(23:48):
do the deals with Saudi Arabia and get big gates
for everything they have and charge up the ying ing
to make the money. You'll see that's normally like, oh,
you go to Vegas, and Vegas people already spend like
crazy for those events, right, think about it. Now, what

(24:11):
does this mean about future revenue? Because for them, they
have to look at how this is all going to
turn out. So TKO with the new rights deals expecting
to projectively earn two point two eighty five billion dollars.
That is crazy, an increase of eighty four percent because

(24:33):
before these deals, before all this, they were earning one
point two four billion dollars on the deals they had
for both w and USC and now it's almost doubled,
almost doubled, So now the revenue is going to basically change.
They're looking at trying to make revenue for TIKO as
a whole, which includes the professional bull runners, toward IMG

(24:57):
on location, all these other pro companies. They have another breath.
They're looking to go and earn revenue in the area
of four point six billion dollars in twenty twenty five,
including new broadcasting deals that are starting to kick in
four point six billion dollars. They're not playing with their money.

(25:18):
Usually puts out a good product, very consistent, and Dana
White has proven to be good leadership throughout and now
we're here because I mean that's the thing too, with
Dana White, their direction, what they're doing, it's been consistent.
People love USC. They're in the right direction. I can't
say the thing for Paulo Esk He's not in the

(25:39):
same field, not even close. The fact that in the
broadcast deals they will to do with one deal. Think
about this, they had to go and get for all
their content. They had to go and do four deals
or three deals to get what they got done. Actually four, no, no, three,

(26:03):
I'm sorry, three and three, okay, but they they're going
to do three deals combined to get all their TV
content together to get to what they did. But they
were able to go and go from six hundred and
ninety million dollars to one point one eighty five million
dollars combined in twenty twenty six. The UFC with their
live events product, just like that, they're really going to

(26:24):
go a full one hundred percent increase from five hundred
and fift million dollars to one point one billion. Done. Now,
one of the other things that's also benefited for UC,
they know why. Obviously still has a pull when it
comes to what's going with USC. He already said the
new paramount deal will result and increase fighter pay standing
performance bonuses will obviously go up and a direct benefit

(26:47):
to athletes stemming for the increased media rights revenue. Enhance
compensation for fighters and talent linked to the lucrative media
rights deals can lead to improve morale, better talent retention,
and at track higher caliber athletes to both. But like
I said, UFC right now, okay, the fighters are getting
the advantage. What are the stars in W and W

(27:10):
right now getting as a result of this? We've been
hearing a lot of pay cuts. We're not hearing anything
about any bumps in pay for the W superstars, are
we not at all? Does everyone understand where we're coming
from here? Where I'm going with this, It's very important. Meantime, Hey, UFC,

(27:33):
they got all their shows that are set up a
permanent plus, they're gonna be able to see the streaming
numbers and if it goes on CBS and on Friday
nights or Saturday nights, that's gotta be crazy. It's gonna
be wild. Meanwhile, the kind of issues that W has
right now currently with their own setup is look, you
know they're gonna get eyeballs to watch live for W

(27:56):
right when I heard it's going further on keeping one,
keeping one with Conan. You know these the fact of
that W gets their social media following seventy five billion
of hours when Broacloser returns, it's like the social media following,
that's like, really where they want to get their audience? No,

(28:16):
you want them to watch the television. I would tell that,
did this go okay? All due respect, you're making your
your broadcast partners want the W universe to be watching
on the TV, onto the streaming services live to catch
the advertisers as it happens. So they do not want

(28:37):
to have where the ratings continue to falter and they're
allowed to continue again falter when this shouldn't be Like
look on the current case of the ratings right now.
NXT this past week seve hundred and twenty thousand viewers,

(28:57):
and it did not be the t in the TMZ
Hulk Hogan documentary on Fox, which I saw very little
promotion for, and the Fox special got a million viewers, CW,
it didn't win. The night's back down on USA now
that it's a two hour format, one point five to
five to seven million viewers is still down from where

(29:19):
it's been before. And the Netflix audience on Raw, well
we already know they've been continued to go and decline
and getting some of the record getting record little ratings
now or record little viewership right or watch hours whatever
they call it, ours viewed, And that has not helped
for them either. Yeah, the whup Hogan special one on

(29:46):
the demographic and one on viewers. Look at that as
a matter effect for total viewers. Oh no, eighteen forty
nine did NXT did win? Okay, I'll give them that.
But now you already thought USC is going to get

(30:08):
the ratings. When they're gonna get those set up over
on CBS and paramount plus, that gets pretty easy for
them to go ahead and get measured and managed and
analyzed for what they're gonna be able to get and
what kind of advertising dollars they can get back at
the end of the day. W is slightly inferior to
what UFC can bring because really it's an easier sell

(30:31):
to get you a see somewhere else. I mean, that's
just where it is. And think about this also, that
USC also has existed half the time that we has
been existing. Think about like that. This says a lot.
It's also about me at management, it's also about leadership.

(30:53):
It was something to be said when this bigmahon was
running the show where you could complain all you want
about creative they were doing in certain directions, but you
know what, it worked for all these years because remember
the kind of money that Vince McMahon made off the
deal was nine billion dollars in valuation w and he
got it. And as far as TKO Group Holdings is

(31:17):
doing right now, they're true trying to recoup in that investment.
They still have to recoup on that and they haven't
gotten there yet. It's a pretty big deal. And so
why should we be worried about what's going on right
now with the product? Well, they'll be living with the

(31:38):
Vince Brusso who talked about this on one of his
recent programs, that they really are struggling right now because
of what they're doing, because the creative is not a
guy creative. Here's what Vince Brusso had to say.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
We parade brock Lessener out there again. Bro Tripleh's booking
is down to two things. I want to know how
Triple H books. This is how we books, guys. It's
real simple. Number one, he books for the pop and
number two he takes that pop and now he puts

(32:12):
it on social media. Now he puts it on YouTube,
so they can tell Disco how they generated seventy five
million views on Brocklestener's return. That's that's Triple H's bag
of tricks. That is it the pop and then take
that and put that on social media and have seventy
five million people watching, and my work is done here.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
They're not making that much money on advertising over there. Okay,
YouTube's gonna autithize only so much, but we is only
going to benefit for that, and that's small compared to
the money that the broadcasters are actually giving them. Okay,
what kind of money do you think W's gonna make
off of, you know, even a million viewers or two
million viewers off of anything the YouTube or Instagram or

(33:02):
whatever else. It's not that much money. It's not that
much money. It's nothing close to what the broadcasters are offering.
I would care about the real money I'm making for them,
which means I would care what's on the television screen.
And that's the quality of what's on television on a
consistent basis for two and a half hours, two hours,

(33:23):
two hours, whatever it is. If it's that good, and
then you can go ahead and generate it on the
social media after the fact. Great, I mean, listen on
the streaming services and all these other channels that they're
on to be on demand. That's fine. If they can
get some of the on demand audience who can fall
back up and catch the show on the platforms, great,
But they should not be looking prioritizing social media. Should

(33:47):
not be doing that. That's not the way to go.
It's not gonna work that way. They can't be doing that.
And what really is an issue is, Okay, you start
off punning that wrong on Netflix, and of course you
have the seeing punk l a night bit that was
going on, which God, that thing drowned out, and the

(34:09):
only memorable thing that came out of that was Braun
a Breaker saying this.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
What you're forty seven?

Speaker 3 (34:14):
What are you gonna do?

Speaker 2 (34:23):
That's one hundred years old?

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Okay, which is funny here, but in the context of things,
I mean, that doesn't sound good to hear that, and
Paul Hayman also trying to go and make up things
to make up Okay, Bron Bronson read with shoes wrapped
around him as a tribal thief, the Shoola falla. That's
the best you got. I mean, that's what you got

(34:49):
for him, And for bron Breaker, it's like whatever, that's
what you're working with right now to build up anything horrible.
And for Triple A right now, his track record right
now of trying to be like the player's coach, it's
not working for him. Let me put a deal like this.
Somebody on ex actually posted a collage of some of

(35:14):
the stars that were brought back to the company at
Summer Sam twenty twenty two. And now they're gone again.
So Braun Stroman, Dakota, Kai Chante, Diodonis, the Good Brothers,
Tiagan Knocks, authors of Payne, Aj Francis, and whoever Sarah

(35:39):
Logan was when she was with the war Raiders. I
forget the name they had for her. It's tyle Valkrey's
finished her. I can't remember it now. But they're all gone.
And the other person in that collage you can add
to it. Carry across the Scarlet Bordeaux, And for what
everyone wants to go ahead and think about what's going
on with those two, well, carrying across. I'll let him

(36:04):
speak for himself. He appeared on the Area Hawane Show
today and spoke about it. And there's a couple of things.
I want to bring up with what was we said
here because of the juveitile, delusional fandom out there that's
upset about what happened here. Okay, upset the Killer Cross
is going to be gone or Carrying Across, I'm sorry,

(36:24):
call him Killer Cross. Now that he's out of there,
I'm going back to calling him kill Across, all right,
he calls himself down on X anyway, So let's just
go and you know, respectfully, huh, Carrying Cross had a
horrible go at it in the writ and that's completely
their fault.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
N XT.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
The Bookie was basically kind of just a just a
reinterpretation of his Killer Cross character. That's pretty much it.
But at that point they had Scarlett actually accompany him,
which was the one thing that was really good out
of that mixes that you had Scarlet and carry and
Killer Cross together. That was actually the one thing that
was done right. In the next team fine, but you know,

(37:09):
Vince McMahon did not feel anything about him, and you
know what, no matter what you tried to do with
Carrying Cross, that character with Final Testament, it wasn't gonna work.
You're just gonna put together a faction just to put
together a faction to think it's going to work. It didn't.
And then the same thing going with you know, the
wonderful creative of w where they they value favors over titles,

(37:33):
They value bracelets over titles. They value you did wrong,
you were wrong, or hold my hand up when I
win the belt off of you. Those kind of things
have value over the belts. Come on, come on, anyways,

(37:53):
let's go to what Killer Cross actually said when it
came to the setup for what happened. First of all,
the offer that was given to him when negotiations broke down.

Speaker 6 (38:06):
He explains, how did we get here? How is this possible?

Speaker 5 (38:10):
Well, I mean, truth of the matter is I mean
you've already stated, like, you know, my contract was up
last week. I never actually received a contract like an
offer until last week.

Speaker 6 (38:24):
So do you remember what day so your contract expired
August tenth, which I do believe was Sunday.

Speaker 5 (38:29):
Yeah, I think it was Tuesday off the top of
my head. You know, I got the offer. I wanted
to know how they came to the valuation of that offer.
Just wanted, you know, like some information, some metrics, some
analytics that's supporting to, hey, this is how we got here.

(38:50):
When I inquired about that, they were unwilling to provide
that information and told me I had twenty four hours
to agrade to the offer or they were resending it. So,
you know, the next day we talk, I ask if
they have the information. They don't, and I said, I
can't make an informed decision without the information, and I'd

(39:12):
like to keep the dialogue open. And they were sending
the offer. And that's that's actually where we're at.

Speaker 6 (39:17):
WOW.

Speaker 5 (39:18):
So and it's it's not meant. This isn't like I
know how a lot of people feel when they make
an exit, right, I can empathize with everybody's experience. Every
experience exit in the company is different.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Right.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
This isn't like to disparage WWE, but because there's so
many convoluted stories out there are going on and actually
even to some degree, can affect our livelihood of what
we're supposed to be doing afterwards, people don't want to
reach out because they're not sure if they're tampering and
stuff like that. The goal has always been to be
with WWE. My wife and I still want to be

(39:54):
like with WWE. Like I'm still at the I'm at
the table for conversations. I did not step out of conversation,
you know what I mean. So you know we still
want to be there.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
We still it's amazing. I mean, it still comes down
to the fact that w is the very top of
where your career stands in professional wrestling. That is still
the place to go. I mean, I'm not really going
to deny that, especially when you have the kind of
exposure that you could possibly get if if this is

(40:29):
managed right, I mean, you become a big star in
all this. Killy Cross has still upside. Yeah, people are
going to talk about he's forty years old. It doesn't matter.
I mean, he still has I mean they have obviously
trust in other stars that are forty years old still
in that company and putting them across, and it doesn't

(40:50):
They're not necessarily worried about the fact that you have
somebody's forty years old and it's not enough time for
them to get over. Yes, there is enough time. Plus
the fact that if you were to bring him back
now anyway, he was already getting over by himself, which
is very familiar to somebody else. Do we know that
went the same way Matt Cardona because he did get

(41:12):
himself over and mat Cardona proved what we were talking
about since twenty nineteen, that plenty of stars can make
it outside of W. We already knew that Alberta the Rio,
you know, except for some things that did happened with
him when he came to you know, being in a
relationship with Sorea, which that didn't help things for him

(41:33):
at all. But aj Styles thrived really well outside of
before he decided to go and come into the company.
Same thing for Cody Rhodes. He was doing just fine
outside of the company. People can do that. And of
course that was before AW existed. AW had not even
come to existence yet. It was just an idea at

(41:56):
the time I was talking about that. But then cool
now AW is an option for everybody, and the other
companies are following suit. I mean, TNA, with the help
of W right now is looking to go and get
themselves on a broadcast deal, and eventually they're going to
get themselves somewhere in the next two months because boun
for Glory is not that far away, and I'm sure

(42:17):
they're trying to get that broadcast deal finalizes. Before then,
Jonathan Coachman was talking with Mark Henry and I thin
guess the behind the turn Buckle Studios at all or
the show called off the Ropes and Coach and Mark
Henry talked about the idea of carrying Across and what
he could be doing. Could he be able to follow

(42:38):
the steps that Matt Cardona and to a point in
the same kind of thing, because Chelsea Green also had
to go outside of the company and thrive before she came.

Speaker 7 (42:48):
Into the wor.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Herself right for the second time. But think about it
like that could kill her cross go the back Cardona route.

Speaker 8 (42:58):
He is selling merchandise number two only to Jay Us,
So the crowd the other night was channing for him,
and Triple H said, Yep, you got Brock, as if
they were channing Brock and not Cross it to me,
I believe the reasons, but when it comes to the
payments that you're talking about, they're trying to get it
like in a pyramid where you got the one guy

(43:18):
at the top and everybody's below. At some point there's
a number where you can say, I can go do
what Matt Cardona did and I can make more on
the indie scene and carry Across might be a guy
that could do exactly what Matt Cardona did.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I think he can.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Killer Cross has done a better job marketing himself than
anything that w has done for him. I don't care
about the vignetta done for him and to all the
TikTok stuff. Honestly, for what my money's worth, I think
Killer Cross, when he had his own crew, his own
kind of set up to do his own content on

(43:55):
social media, his documentary, his book, he is better marketing
himself and promoting himself than the company will do for him.
It's not dismissing the fact that couldn't possibly market him
and push him to the moon. They don't want to.

(44:15):
They don't want to. And the other part that's very interesting,
is very telling, is when you hear about Killer Cross
trying to go ahead and get things together with the
stars that he brought back that Collajah talked about Triple
H actually had some pull into what was going on

(44:36):
with certain talent. But then changes were made. And then
when a certain quarterly call for the company comes through
and the public offering is not as high as it
should be, they're not making as much money, and the
company decides to go ahead and say, hey, you know what,
Paul you need to cut some people. Well, he's gonna

(44:57):
be the bad guy, and now's the point where true
Blaze is not even going to be the bad guy anymore.
Now I have somebody in between. Let's go with more
with Killer Cross from the Area Hawuane Show today.

Speaker 6 (45:07):
Have you reached out to Paul personally?

Speaker 5 (45:10):
No?

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (45:12):
I spoke.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
I had a conversation with him earlier in the year
about all of this. They took a point man and
they put him between us to communicate. So now the
point man is responsible for all the dialogue.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
You can't circumvent that guy. You have a personal relationship,
a history with.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
Me, knows that I want to talk. Yeah, he knows
what I want to do. He knows.

Speaker 6 (45:33):
Are you tempted to send him a text?

Speaker 5 (45:35):
I don't know what I would send him, because that
guy who they put in front of them to talk
to me is telling me that everything is coming from them.
I've made it very very clear that I want to
keep the lanes of communication and dialogue open. It's a
very weird situation. Yeah, it's weird. Heird, dude.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
So Killer Cross is in the unfortunate situation that Triple
H does not want to handle those calls. I'm sure
when he had to start cutting people like he did
earlier this year, he doesn't want that kind of pressure.
He's got too much other stuff on the fire he
has to worry about. He has to go and tow
the company line. He has to go and take care
of things because it's not just him on the line,

(46:18):
it's Stephanie McMahon on the line. The McMahon name doesn't
matter anymore in that company, Okay, So Paul and Stephanie
could be easily out of the picture at some point.
I would not be surprised if before the five years
are up that Stephanie and Triple H are both out

(46:42):
of the company. I mean it because the way that
things were done, Triple H is obviously not going to
do it that way. He has chosen the path he
wants to go. He owns it now. And the stars
he thought he could work and rely on to help
out he thought he was going to work with, Well
they're not there now, so change for him. And here's

(47:07):
another shocking thing that comes out of this interview is
that Killer Cross was not going to have Scarlett on
the new deal.

Speaker 6 (47:16):
When they made that offer. Was it for the two
of you.

Speaker 5 (47:19):
Nothing, She had nothing.

Speaker 6 (47:19):
There was no offer to her nothing.

Speaker 9 (47:21):
No.

Speaker 5 (47:21):
I was told at one point because I did inquire,
of course, Yeah, after we deal with you, we'll deal
with her.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
Do you think that they were going to get to
her like once they were probably hoping you'd say yes.
Do you think they were going to get to her?
Or do you think there was a chance that she
was not going to be brought back regardless?

Speaker 5 (47:36):
I don't know, Wow, but I just I didn't. I
don't see why we just could not have done things
the way we did them before.

Speaker 7 (47:47):
Because Kevin, you know his real name, Kevin, is a
different company than when Trivial h brought you back in.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Because now TKO's being all the deals they've made and
things are not going to be operating the same they
were now. Trible Ah is not a cogging machine. He's
being controlled by the team at TKO. They're going to
do things the way they're gonna do it. It doesn't matter anymore,

(48:19):
not at all, And it's unfortunate. As I said before,
I mean, Scarlett very talented, not just as a valet
but also as an angry performer.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
She is.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Another story because Arie Hawani I guess he's just hitting
up in all cylinders today. He also if people want
to say he's a puppet for TKO, no he's not.
He just has access and he's pretty. He is, you know,
very even handed with his interviews. He just gets stuff
out of people. It does a really good job of it.
He spoke with Shanna Bezer as well today and there

(48:56):
us talk about her. She still had three year stuff
under contra. Here's what she said.

Speaker 6 (49:01):
Yeah, just for for the sake of sort of being accurate,
Were you released or did your contract expire? How did
it go down?

Speaker 10 (49:09):
I was released. I had actually not too long ago
signed an extension, so yeah, it would have I wish
it would have ran out, but yeah it was.

Speaker 8 (49:21):
I was released.

Speaker 6 (49:22):
How much longer was on there?

Speaker 10 (49:25):
I had like three more years?

Speaker 6 (49:26):
Oh okay, wow, so you just signed it? Was it
relatively newly signed? Okay? What was your reaction when you
found out about their decision?

Speaker 10 (49:34):
You know, it's kind of funny because it's I wouldn't
I wouldn't say it's like it's obviously never a good feeling.
I don't think in rare cases, but it's it was
not unexpected, like we hadn't you know, uh, as far
as like Zoe and I and with Sonya being released,

(49:56):
and then since Sonya got or she'd got, they didn't
they didn't renew her contract, and then from that time
we just weren't on TV, me and Zoe, and so
you kind of get this feeling like we're we were,
you know, trying to pitch stories and ideas and do

(50:17):
our own stuff on social media and that kind of thing,
and just nothing was really hitting with creative. So I mean,
as much as it's a bummer in that moment, it's
kind of like, yeah, yeah, I kind of knew this
was where we were at.

Speaker 6 (50:31):
So how did you find out?

Speaker 10 (50:34):
Ah, they called me, they called me.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I was not.

Speaker 10 (50:38):
I was fortunate to be one of those that did
not find out through social media.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
But sure, sure, wow, but now she and it also
makes the point that she could find her way back
in some way going to AW, which would be good
for her if they couldn't do that, because what let
me go and get what was being reported off of
that as well that when it comes to AW, it's

(51:03):
not a secret. She's good friends with Marina Shafir. I
have a lot of friends there. So there's been some
discussion as to what the future could hold. For sure,
she could go back and Ring of Honor. She wants
to go back there, like she could work, and she
already has a previous rapport working in Ring of Honor
before Tony Kombot the company in the Sinclair days, So
for her to go and go back into that, that's
how I even recognized her in the first place before

(51:24):
they brought her in. And again another example of very
well positioned and placed in the next did not translate
well enough into the main roster except for some of
the things that he did with her and Nia Jacks,
putting them together, and you know, just missed out for
whatever reason. It's unfortunate too because also great talent, very talented,

(51:47):
no matter what. Another thing I want to bring up
as well, Dave Meltzer bringing up the idea and this
was from about a week ago, but still I think
it's as important we just brought up with Vince Russo
said about the storytelling of what they're doing right now,
and that Dave Meltzer on Reside Observer Radio also follow

(52:09):
the same suit about booking for moments and not long
term storylines. And I just want to make sure that
I've made my point about this point, soort Vince Rousseau,
and now I'll leave it to Dave Meltzer from mere perspective.

Speaker 11 (52:21):
Has ww's emphasis emphasis on moments over long term payoffs
fundamentally change how they measure booking success. Absolutely, and if so,
how sustainable is that model in keeping fan engagement high.

Speaker 9 (52:33):
When you're booking for moments, knowing that the fans are
more interested in moments and not interested in long term storytelling,
it makes championships secondary. It creates a situation where you
put on a pay per view. And I've seen this

(52:54):
from some people. You know, sometimes it's for action to
AW some types in reaction to w W when they
have a great payew of there's no there were no surprises, ergo,
the show was boring. You know, I need you know,
if you don't deliver a surprise, no matter how much
you deliver in the ring, no matter how much like
you know, it's like, if I don't get a surprise,

(53:18):
it's boring.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Yeah, And I think that is in the current feel
of everyone out there and how upset they are with
the current trajictory of wrestling when it comes to what
w does or AW doesn't do enough of According to
the juveitial delusional fandom, as we say, they're juvenile and

(53:40):
delusional because they want moments. And the fact that okay, tonight,
aw had dynamite and they were setting things up for
Forbidden Door took a while to get to edging Christian reuniting. Right,
you get some old Jobe that did come back tonight.
You have Hangman Adam Page and m JF and doing
the setup where they've been going back and forth for

(54:01):
a while right now, and the whole Sea Biscuit line,
and now MGF has just talked his way into giving
up his contract to cash in on Hangman Page at
Forbidden Door, which is a great storyline. Then John Moxley

(54:22):
now in a lights out match five on five setting
up for Forbidden Door. They got that match set up
where Canny Omega is gonna be something on one side
along with Darbyan and we'll Lostpray and others, and then
Young Bucks and the Death Riders are gonna be on
the other side and they'll have to face all each
other in that setup. Setting things up as well. They're

(54:42):
continuing to move along when it comes to Mercedes Bonnet
and the setup for matches coming up for them for
Forbidden Door where Athena will take on Thomas Tony Storm
for the women's title. And there's been the eliminated tournament,
the yeah, the eliminary Terman they've had right now for

(55:03):
the detag team titles where the Hurts and to Get
will take on the winners of the elimination tournament that
they have right now in place as we speak. What
they've been doing as well. But they've been doing long
term storytelling, which is what I prefer. But for the
WWE fans that watch right now, they're not necessarily into this,
right They're just not and also not necessarily been doing

(55:28):
a whole lot of particular of development of storylines when
they put matches together and they put, okay, here's a
two on two, here's a four and four, all these
kind of things just to set things up. Adam Coblanding
almost took the halfway, which is more of his issue
of going after FTR. But now that Christian and Cage
are back together or K three a COVID Christian, you're

(55:49):
back together, now we're gonna get those two to go
hang go after FTR and set things up for that.
So a lot of matches aren't being set up now
overall for AW for Ridden Door and what they have
set up for that now coming up, which is great
as far as we know the current storyline of the
current matches we have so far. We'll have the lights

(56:11):
out Steelcage match where Kenny Omega and Kotobushi, the Golden
Lovers Accompany, Darby on Hiroshi, Tonahashi and will Ospray versus
Death Writers Claudia Castinelli, John Moxley, the Young Bucks and
Gabe Kidd, who has also been in storyline throughout this
whole death Writer storyline throughout. So Cazuccio Octta versus Wore Strickland.

(56:33):
They haven't done too much here tonight, and I don't
think the for the on Dynamite, but I thinkuess they're
gonna different collision for the AW Unified Championship, Tomas Tony
Storm versus Athena for the Women's World title. And also
this is where the match is. What is the contract
that Athena won from the Casino gamblet match At all end,

(56:53):
then you have a four way match with a TBS
title with Mercedes Bne, Alex Wender Paris from CMLL and
an undetermined name from Stardom because we have certain stars
from New Japan and other promotions that are gonna be
part of this whole setup. Kyle Fletcher gives her room
move Takahashi for the T and T title, So New

(57:14):
Japan versus aw Zack Siber Junior will defend the IWGP
Worth Heavway title. We don't know, We don't have an
idea who his opponent will be as of yet, but
we still have time and Hangman out of Patriot MGF
versus the aw World title, and again MGF cashing in
his Casino Gantlet Championship match, and Copeland and Cage for
some of the majiorchies, Keep Saving and Nick Wayne an

(57:34):
attack team match to set up. But of course FTR
is in there is in their purview coming up. So
that's all being set up for the pay per view
coming up, not this a week from Sunday in London.
Triplemania thirty three's coming up this weekend and we're gonna

(57:55):
talk about that and most likely we'll probably do a
post show for that because the shows can be bilable
on YouTube, which is right, and so far the matches
already have so far scheduled, you have a mixed uios
match with Judgment Day where Finn Balergeana McDonough and Rocco
Verriguez will take on mister Iguana you know, Hambangsa and
little Avice lis Garza will defend the World Tag team

(58:16):
titles in a street fight versus Pagano and Csyco clown
l Messius or Judus Messius before or you know, mean
what as you might remember, takes on Eli hil de
dictor Wagner Junior for the Triple Latin Triple A Latin
American Championship and the Renda Renas will be defended, and
that'll be Flamer Flammair, Fabi Apacci and Natalia. That's great.

(58:39):
Natalia has been putting a new a different field to
her character since she's been out of the w Spotlight
right now still with the company, but she's been getting
to work in other companies and you know, working in
blood Sport, working in a few other places, and she's
having a good old time. Now she gets to work
here and again in the trible A, which is awesome
for her good stuff. And again the Mega Championship being

(59:04):
defended Elhigo the Vikingo will defend against Dominic Mystereo, Dragon
Lee and Elgrandi Americano that is this weekend. If I
had to go and do predictions right now, Judgement Day
win win the Mixtios match. I said, Dominic Mysteria will
win the Triple Amerga Championship. That I think is a given.
I'll take Pagano a cycle Clown to win the World
Tech Team titles. Masis will retain the Latin American Championship,

(59:30):
and you know, I'm gonna just guess that Natalia will
win the Herena and Arena's Championship over Flame Air coming
up this weekend, and that's coming up Saturday night. We'll
talk about that coming up this weekend on the rest
of their podcast. Mostly we'll do a post show for that.
I'll look forward to go and talking about that and

(59:50):
leting everybody know all about that and see how it
turned out. And as I already said before, there have
been reports coming out now that w is looking to
go ahead and reportedly put John Cena in matches where
there's a good chance the aw will have to do

(01:00:13):
with competition. Now, I could also talk about Vinscaman being
on the team's He's special a documentary about Hook Hogan
not being happy with Triple h and what he's been
doing with the company right now, and also just the
way that they handled his Hook Cogan's passing that visit

(01:00:34):
man felt like he's one of the biggest stars ever
and that's very much so, and chose not to go ahead,
and it would have made his passing much more special
and would have done a lot more to commemorate the
loss of such a major character. As we talked about,
There's not much more I can say when it comes

(01:00:54):
to John Cena being used. They're not gonna use Saturday
nights of an event now and now as a ployee.
They want to use pay per views and put out
new pay per views just for the sole purpose of
screw with AW for all we're all out coming up,
and the same goes for AW World's end. They decided

(01:01:16):
god do that. It's not surprising to me to do that.
But as again we've already talked about earlier, look at
what they're doing right now in terms of money. Has
to go ahead and take out their competition. It's not
even the way that Eric fishoff the way you had
it before, but it's a matter of that TKO made
all this money for them, and now what w will

(01:01:39):
be doing in the process not just do more to
sustain and make good value on the concept of greening
For those broadcasts broughtners, how about take out their competition
and prove that they are and all beyond anyway, come
back this week with the Triple A Triblenia Pro Show
here on the rest of your podcast, because wrestling needs us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Jack Simes BA
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