November 20, 2024 • 37 mins
Bestselling authors William and Lara Bernhardt discuss the latest news from the book world, offer writing tips, and interview Marty Ludlum, author of the new mystery novel, At First I Was Afraid, the first book in his Disco Divas series.
(0:00) Opening Thoughts
Do you listen to music while you write?
(3:34) News
a. Amazon is Shuttering the Vella Program for Serialized Fiction
b. Written Word Media 2024 Survey Reveals Surprises
(15:39) Craft Corner
Lara Bernhardt discusses how and why to add evocative imagery to your work.
(18:02) Interview with Marty Ludlum, author of At First I Was Afraid
In this interview you will learn:
a. why Marty has been working on this book for almost thirty years;
b. where he got the idea for his protagonist, Donna Summer Wyznecki;
c. the importance of the Disco Divas;
d. how he benefitted from a WriterCon cruise; and
e. why this is the right book to read now.
(37:20) Parting Words
Register now for the WriterCon cruise! The cruise departs from Seattle on May 31 for a week through gorgeous Alaska. Over 20 hours of writing instruction—large group, small group, and private—while the ship is at sea. Prices vary depending upon the roon you choose. For more information, visit www.writercon.com/cruise/ or email willbern@gmail.com
Until next time, keep writing, and remember: You cannot fail, if you refuse to quit.
William Bernhardt
www.williambernhardt.com
www.writercon.com
(0:00) Opening Thoughts
Do you listen to music while you write?
(3:34) News
a. Amazon is Shuttering the Vella Program for Serialized Fiction
b. Written Word Media 2024 Survey Reveals Surprises
(15:39) Craft Corner
Lara Bernhardt discusses how and why to add evocative imagery to your work.
(18:02) Interview with Marty Ludlum, author of At First I Was Afraid
In this interview you will learn:
a. why Marty has been working on this book for almost thirty years;
b. where he got the idea for his protagonist, Donna Summer Wyznecki;
c. the importance of the Disco Divas;
d. how he benefitted from a WriterCon cruise; and
e. why this is the right book to read now.
(37:20) Parting Words
Register now for the WriterCon cruise! The cruise departs from Seattle on May 31 for a week through gorgeous Alaska. Over 20 hours of writing instruction—large group, small group, and private—while the ship is at sea. Prices vary depending upon the roon you choose. For more information, visit www.writercon.com/cruise/ or email willbern@gmail.com
Until next time, keep writing, and remember: You cannot fail, if you refuse to quit.
William Bernhardt
www.williambernhardt.com
www.writercon.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on the writer com podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Well knowing as I do the woes of life that
we see every day on daytime television. The most important
crisis you have is whether or not you have an
extended car warranty, and if you don't, your life is
destined for ruin.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to writer Kon, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, award
winning author of the want Ln Files book series.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich, Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
us today. Now, if you're a regular listener, you know
last time we talked about movies made from books, but
since today's interview guest has a musical theme in his books,
I thought i'd ask about music, like what music do
you like to listen to when you're writing or doing
(01:04):
other kind of works. Some people I know, listen to music.
Some people don't. Laura, as if I didn't know, what
about you, do you listen to music when you're writing? No?
Speaker 5 (01:14):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
I actually find that distracting. So when I have music playing,
I just want to sing along to it, and my
mind is very focused on words, and so instead of
generating my own I'll be listening to that. So I
did that question a lot. People ask me a lot
like what kind of currently music do I listen to?
But I don't like listening to music?
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Yeah, well I don't get I mean, I love listening
to music but trying to write because like you were saying,
then I'm going to start listening to the music and
singing or thinking huh, I wonder if I can do
that on the piano, and pretty soon I'm not paying
attention to my book anymore exactly. Jesse, this may not
be a fair question for you, but because you probably
(01:57):
can't listen to music when you're doing sound engineering.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Oh just makes me sad. It makes me sad.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Something when I'm driving or when I used to do
I used to have a lot of like entry level jobs,
or I was doing a lot of data entry and
that was a lot of music listening and podcast listening times.
So yes, it is good to have something going on
when you're doing something either creative or mundane even.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Right, or something that doesn't take uh, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Doesn't take all of it. Yeah, so yeah, no, I've
I can't.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
There are some audio this this question has come up
in like audio engineer Facebook groups I'm in and whatnot.
Like some people are actually able to listen to music
when they're editing, not necessarily mastering. So like when you're
just like removing ums and yeahs and whatnot, sure you
could have like some classical music or things without lyrics playing, right,
But when you're mastering, you have to focus all of
(02:49):
it on what you're hearing.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
So sure that makes sense. That's sad for me, well,
as I have already pretty much hinted. Today we are
interviewing a debut author, first book, and it may take
you back a few years to the glorious era of disco.
We're interviewing Marty Ludlam, who is a lawyer and a
professor and now the author of the first in a
(03:11):
series of mystery novels set in Vegas and featuring the
disco divas led by Detective Donner Donna summer Wyzinski. And yes,
she was named after exactly who you think she was
named after. So of course the title of this first
book is at first, I was afraid Are you singing already? Jesse?
(03:34):
I mean, you can hear it in your head, can't you?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
How you not?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
We will, well, that's the idea. I'm sure get people's attention.
We'll talk to Marty about his new book, which was
just released last week.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
But first the news.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
News story number one sad news for fans of Kindlvella,
except I'm not sure there were actually any or many
fans of Kindevella Kindlevella, which is why it's going to
close in February of next year. Vella, as most of
you probably already know, was Amazon's in house attempt to
(04:27):
build an audience for serialized fiction that is released chapter
by chapter, like you know, the old Saturday Morning Cereals
or whatnot. It hasn't even been around for four years,
but they're already shutting it down and stories on it
are going to be SIPHONDOCT to some other program. Maybe
(04:48):
they can go to Wattpad or Tapas or something like that.
But apparently it just was not working out, So Vella
is now going to join the tomb of failed Amazon
initiative like Kendall Scout. Laura and I can both talk
about that when or Kendall Worlds, which was their attempt
(05:08):
to create shared worlds that other people could write in,
but it never actually took off, and actually the reaction
to this was pretty muted. I think most people thought
it was going away before it actually went away. Laura,
why do you think vella failed?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
I'm not sure why it didn't catch on with readers.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
I actually hopped in very early on, right when it
first started, and I did see some traction, but I
don't think people wanted to pay for it. Something about
the system just wasn't working. My free episodes got lots
and lots and lots of attention, but I didn't see
(05:53):
people moving beyond that right to the episodes that were then.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Pay to read.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Right Well. I mean, I think it was supposed to
compete with like what Pad, but unless you're in the
paid section, people can read entire books that what Pad
for free. It's not like, Okay, now that you're hooked
on the story, you've got to start paying for it.
I did a boy this is way back when it started,
but the book that has now been published under the
(06:22):
title Plot Counterplot I started as a kindle vella, but
after eight episodes or so, I just thought this is
a waste of time and killed it and just published
it as a book like all the others. I don't know, Jesse,
you have any thoughts on this. Why what's the reason
for the latest Amazon wash out?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, it was one of those things where sometimes companies
like Amazon like launched something with authors already partnered to
do a thing, and sometimes they don't, and this is
one of the times when they didn't. And so if
there wasn't somebody, you know, playing with this new medium,
it was going to be very hard for it to
take cothic. It was a good idea, but again, like
(07:03):
shuffling it off to just Kindles and just Amazon stopped
a lot of people from engaging with it the way
they would like to.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
So yeah, I think a lot of people never heard
about it and never really engage. Plus, Russell Nority has
talked about this and has called him the author's stack
and said he was basically surprised it lasted as long
as it did because it didn't look to him like
anybody was making money off it, not Amazon and not authors,
so it just didn't find its audience. I guess, okay,
(07:34):
News story number two. This is a big event for
me every year when Written Word Media releases its author
survey and the survey for twenty twenty four has just
been released just to explain Written word Media terrific outfit,
mostly specializing and helping small presses and self published people
(07:57):
find ways of marketing their books online. So you need
to understand that their survey is one all volunteer. It
probably attracts more attention from people at small presses or
self published than otherwise, and that you know, if it
has any validity, that means you have to trust what
(08:18):
authors say in closed. You know nobody's going to see
what they said. There's no reason to fib about it.
But at any rate, I think it's a terrific survey.
It's the best information I see every year about what's
really going on in the book world and what's working
and what's not. The good news is the indie author
(08:41):
community is going like gangbusters. Seventy six percent of the
respondents said they were self published sixteen hybrid, meaning that
they have their fingers in both self publishing and traditional publishing,
but only seven point eight percent were fully traditional published.
(09:02):
This will surprise no one. Romances by far the most
popular genre. But here's something I did think was interesting
and Jesse, I think you've got a chart on this.
Amazon is generating over eighty percent of the author's profits,
and that's primarily through Ku. That is, people who are
(09:23):
exclusive to Amazon and ebooks Kindle unlimited. But if you
look at that chart, you see that little blip, I mean,
it's barely even visible compared to the Amazon tower. But
the number two column is direct sales. I've never seen
that before. In other words, that's authors selling books directly
(09:45):
to readers, presumably from their websites at least in most cases.
And after that you see Apple, Cobo. At this point,
the line is getting so thin you can barely see it. Kickstarter, Google,
and Nook meaning Barnes and Noble. In other words, Barnes
and Noble is sixth and number one is Kindle and
(10:06):
number two is direct sales. Laura, did any of this
surprise you?
Speaker 6 (10:11):
No, not really really reflects what I see in my
royalty statements pretty pretty closely.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Well, you are you thinking about adding direct sales maybe
to your website?
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Well after seeing this yet, I suppose maybe the one piece.
And I have looked into this and I've seen some
ways to get it started, but I haven't carved out
the time to implement it.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think that maybe the big takeaway or one of two,
maybe because I know more authors or you know, at
one point. I know when I started thirty plus years ago,
authors would always say, oh, I write books, I don't
sell them and wouldn't even you know, like bring books
to an event or whatever. But that world has changed
and a lot of people are now selling direct from
(10:59):
their way website, and especially if it's just an ebook,
why not. I mean, Brandon Sanderson has a huge warehouse.
He can ship print books. Most people probably don't want to,
but sending ebooks out is easy. What about the Ku part?
I've said on this podcast before that I choose not
(11:20):
to be Ku exclusive, not really because it makes monetary sense,
but because well, my books be available everywhere. But it
looks like the people making the most money are in
fact KU exclusive. Is that the way to go?
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Well, it's interesting that you bring that up. I actually,
just in time for Halloween pulled back my want onn
Files series and did put it back in Ku. I
had a big burst last year after it hit hard
after a book bub deal. That was a benefit I
(11:58):
think of having it wide very well, but it had
really dwindled to virtually nothing and since I've put it
back in, I'm seeing daily sales again. So I do
think that it was it's better for a series potentially
to be in KU.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Eventually, or are you saying release it wide and then
when sales inevitably start to diminish, then take it k
you exclusive.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
Kind of what I've done in this case, although I
have another series that I'm going to be writing, and
at this point I'm thinking maybe I just go KU
from the start. I think KU can really benefit a
series because you're getting a lot of pages read that way.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
My women's fiction is still wide.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Okay, Jesse, outside of the writing, pray you buy ebooks?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I do?
Speaker 4 (12:50):
How do you find your books?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It's okay, So first, like, as a non author, let
me ask this this bar graph, Yeah, that Amazon.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That includes that includes both like people.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Just buying ebooks off Amazon, and that also includes like
money that comes from books that are in Kindle Unlimited.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yes, okay, although the you know, the text and the
report makes it pretty clear that the big money is
coming from KU. But anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Well, I asked that because like, I joined Kindle Unlimited
when it makes economic sense. For example, when I was
reading the murder Bot Diaries. Like six of the seven
of those books we're in the Kindle unlimited, So I
was like, okay, I will join Kindle ulimited for a
month or two, however long it takes me too to
read these, And then I bought the seventh book, so
like from Amazon, and you know, so.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's it's how do I find books?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, it's a lot of like word of mouth recommendations
on Reddit or from people I know, or every once
in a while when I'm like, am I up to
date on like all of the best fantasy or sci fi?
I will do a like a you know, top ten
fantasy sci fi blog posts to see make sure that
I haven't missed somebody.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
So you're the savvy shopper, but it's clear that you're
you'll use ku if it's beneficial, but not, Yeah, get
hooked on it.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
No.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I mean a lot of times I use the library
if I can so, especially if.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
It's a we love library.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, a lot of times I can't get the first
book of in a series on the library because it's
usually the most like requested one, so I'll buy that
one and then maybe read. I like to give authors
money at some point though, so like I will eventually
buy them anyway.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But sometimes I want to Right now.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Let's see. Okay, well it's time for Craft Corner. But Jesse,
now that we've done this three times and i've heard
the what do you call that? Is that a sound effect?
Segue the thing you're doing?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
So for our listeners if you're curious, it is one
a sound effect called the DJ airhorn, followed by my
voice run through a series to make me sound scary.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
So do we?
Speaker 4 (14:59):
I mean, couldn't you just do that live? It would
be more entertaining.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I could you want to do a live take of
it right now?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
For today's Craft Corner, which is gonna feature. All right,
let me introduce it first and then you can do
your sound character. Okay, So today in Craft Corner, we're
bringing it back home because nobody does it better than
my sweetheart, Lara Burnheart. I have heard her give a
fabulous talk on imagery for an hour at Ryder Con. Well,
(15:25):
now you've got two minutes or less, Lara, what could
you do? Let's find out? Lara after Jesse take off,
Jesse take it away?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
All right, i'mna see if this works. Let's try this
hold on craft corner. I don't know if you heard
the airhorn.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
If you didn't, we definitely heard it. That was good.
Speaker 7 (15:48):
Yes, Lara, go for it, okay.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Imagery is.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
A way of bringing an emotional connection for your reader
to your story.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
It is.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
A term that we use to describe evoking the five senses.
Why do we want to evoke the five senses in
our stories?
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Because that's how.
Speaker 6 (16:12):
We bring that emotional quality to it. We tie a
lot of our memories and our emotions to our senses.
Think of something that you smell but immediately takes you
back to a memory or maybe causes nostalgia because it
reminds you of some one or some time in your
life that was very important to you for some reason.
(16:37):
We use rhetoric, which is the intentional use of language,
in order to achieve imagery in our books, and we're
talking about things like similes and metaphors. This is language
that you might associate more often with literary fiction, kind
(16:58):
of a heightened level of language. But I find that
it's very effective in anything because it can add more
complexity and more resonance in your readers than just describing
what's happening. When you give them something to wait their
emotions to in your work, They're going to be far
(17:20):
more engaged and more interested in what it is that
you're trying to say.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, that's a great tip. I mean, when people are
developing characters, they think about backstory, they think about to
show or tell, but I think they often don't think
about imagery. And you're so exactly right, So thank you.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
I love to use the example, even I Douglas Adams
use this. I love to use example of his the
spaceships hung in the air exactly the way bricks don't.
That's imagery right there, and that's sci fi and humor.
So it's not just literary fiction that benefits from from imagery.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Fantastic, Thank you so much, Laura. All right, let's talk
to our guest, Marty Ludlam. Marty Ludlam, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Thank you, thank you great to be here.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Okay, our traditional first question, if you could offer writers
one piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, knowing as I do, the woes of life that
we see every day on daytime television, the most important
crisis you have is whether or not you have an
extended car warranty, and if you don't your life is
destined for ruin. I know we had a presidential election,
(18:54):
but it seems to pale in comparison to the worms
about your car warranty.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
We've never had that answer before. I got to say,
that's an all time first. Thanks. All right, Marty, you
are secretly, maybe not secretly, you are like me a
writer a lawyer was what I meant to that. We're
both writers too, but you're a lawyer, you're a professor.
(19:22):
I've done that too, And now your first book has
been published. I mean, first, where do you find the time?
And second? Why?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, to be honest, I've been working on this since well,
nineteen ninety four. We had well, we had a child
born in ninety two and another one in ninety four,
and until they came of age and got independent and
no longer wanted any money from me, I didn't really
(19:55):
have a.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Whole lot of spirit that start.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
What I don't know, sometime after age thirty. It just
kind of falls out.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Yes, okay, but I've been.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Working on it. It just never got a huge amount
of attention until the parenting responsibilities decreased and completely relatable.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
At that first book, I had been working on her
well over a decade before I got really serious about it,
and kind of the same thing.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
My other responsibilities were kind of peering out and I
was able to focus.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh yeah that. You know, life gets in the way,
especially of writing, because if it's not your career, everybody
looks at it as oh, that's you know, like watching TV.
You know, you could pick it up put it off anytime,
and there's no big consequence to missing a day of TV. Yeah,
(20:55):
writing it's a little bit harder to carve out that
time for you.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
All right. Now, let's talk about your book, which has
just been released. It's your first book, and I got
to say that this disco themed mystery series is one
of the genius ideas I've come across in a long time.
How did you come up with that?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Actually sort of I didn't more it was a I
started out with a Again, see if this sounds familiar.
My first character in the first book was a lawyer
that works in small town in Oklahoma, and that's just done. Yeah, yeah,
(21:39):
that just didn't take off. And then I had my
second version of it was an African American woman that
became a police officer, and she's basically the same as
my Donna character. And then when you know, we had
some aspects of cultural acquisition and all those kind of things,
(22:04):
especially using a lot of humor, it might not be
taken the right way. And so really from the ryder
Con cruise that I did, I got a whole bunch
of feedback and they're like, hey, change a character and
instead of making you know, don't make her black, it
(22:27):
doesn't need to be, but certainly make her female. And
I think one of the key things was also a
Melanie suggested. It's like the first version of Donna was
she had huge food issues because she was overweight. She's like,
women hate that. It's like every woman can relate to it,
(22:48):
but every woman hates it at the same time. Yeah,
and so I'm like, okay, I don't know the opposite way.
And instead Donna has to eat constantly everything in sight
to keep up her ninety seven pound frame. And so
that makes her kind of a quirky female character. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
Absolutely, yes, And it's important to note.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
So that's that's Donna. Donna Summer with.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Necky after the disco Queen.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
Yes, after the disco Queen, give us can you give
us a little more insight into her.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, she's a Las Vegas police officer, newly minted detective,
just been promoted to detective, and has to deal with
especially in the police force, it's it's a sea of testosterone,
strongly male oriented. You've got to be super macho, only
the most violent survive, and you've got to be the
(23:47):
tough guy. And now we've got an undersized woman who's
competing and doing well and that kind of very very
hostile and vironment, I guess we would have to say, right.
And she deals with, you know, not only having to
solve crimes, but deals with the love life that's pretty
(24:09):
much a dumpster fire, and deals with a family that's
pretty much any psychiatrist's mad dream about having perpetual customers,
and you know, having it also said in modern Las
Vegas allows you to have a set of eclectic supporting casts.
(24:31):
That we've got a woman who's a Shirley Temple look alike,
I got a part time psychic, got raincoat Ronnie, which,
of course the name tells you that it's going to
be weird. And then her partner who's seven foot tall,
former NBA player who's retired and become a policeman. And
(24:53):
so now You have a little bitty donna, almost like
a father daughter duo everywhere they go, and they got.
Speaker 6 (25:02):
Those other ladies that you mentioned, those are her disco divas, right.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Disco divas, because it turns out that they actually won
a trophy in the police, a trophy case. It's usually
reserved for softball and flag football and all these kind
of events. They've got. They want to dance off at
one of the Las Vegas clubs with the disco theme,
and so they've been teased forever as the disco divas,
(25:29):
but she embraces it.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Nice.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
You mentioned the writer Con Cruise, which I appreciated beyond
the obvious reason because as you were talking about the
evolution of your character, I thought some of this sounds
familiar to me. Yeah, you were there on the very
first ever writer Con cruise, weren't you, And now in a.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Few years twenty twenty, I think, yeah, right before, yeah,
right before the life we got lucky. In fact, when
we were out on that cruise, we check the news
every day to make sure they were going to let
us leave the boat. And we had friends who were
on a cruise two weeks later and they were the
(26:17):
last ones to get out after that, it just closed
and if you're still at sea, you stayed at sea,
and it's.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Like, wow, yeah, I remember the security. Yeah, when we embarked,
they said, have you been to China recently?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
No?
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Okay, and that.
Speaker 8 (26:32):
Was the yeah, complete honor system. Yes, yeah, it's life
and death. But we're just gonna let your wing it.
You know, if you want to tell us the truth,
it's okay. But if not, we're really not going to
double check. You know, it's not that big deal.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Well, beyond COVID, can you talk about the writer con
cruise experience? I mean only if you have good things
to say, but.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Oh yes, yes, talk about it. Well, I do have
two pages that stuff you paid me to say, so
I'll read some of that.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm just kidding, and he didn't pay me yet. But
to be honest, there's kind of two different things for writers.
There's a conference, which is more you as a sponge,
absorbing all kinds of content from a variety of speakers.
On a retreat like the cruise, it's more in reverse.
(27:27):
You examine each writer individually and you go into a
whole lot of detail about your project, what you're working on,
and you know, it's a smaller group environment, and so
it's a really very different experience. And that's why I
think once you've gone to several conferences, you want to
go to retreat and concentrate on one specific work, and it'll
(27:48):
really rocket it far ahead. It really will.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
I was really impressed with you talking about how this
book and even your character has changed.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Completely while you've been working on it. I think that.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
That's just such an admirable, just really professional and committed
approach to the writing. This isn't working, but how to
make it work, and being being open to constructive criticism
and advice that you were getting and then being willing
to make those changes to me.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
Says a lot about how professional committed you are.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think. Can you talk about Yeah, A lot of
it comes from I have a lot of writing and
academic environment, and there you get a lot of criticism.
I wouldn't say much of it is constructive. A lot
of it is we don't like it, and that's that's
your whole comment.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
That's as it gets.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And so a lot of that you have to parse
it out from sharing it with friends and say hey,
read this oversee which think and you'll get ten different
bits of feedback that have ten different directions about what
they think needs to be fixed. And I think that's
kind of toughened me up a little bit about taking
the criticism still hurts when you get it. You know,
(29:13):
when you get a review back and somebody looks it
over and there's ready ink all over it, It's like,
I'm just going to set it down for a day
and think about something else and then I'll come back
and now I just kind of treat it not as
these are criticisms, but instead this is a to do list.
(29:34):
These are ways to make it. These are ways to
make it better.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
No one's book was ever improved by friends saying, oh, Bill,
it's terrific. Exactly make you feel good doesn't improve the book.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
No, you need that critical view. And you know, I
tell my students kind of with their writing assignments that
you know, you you're always the last person to notice
your pants are unzipped, and everybody will notice it before you,
and some won't say anything, some will. But why again,
(30:12):
you think to yourself, well, of course my pants are zipped.
They have to be zipped. I always zip my pants,
and it's the same way in your writing. The stuff
that's absolutely so crystal clear to you. When another person
reads it, goes, hey, there's two pages here. I can't
figure out who's talking. It's like you just need to
(30:34):
look inside my mind because I know exactly who it is.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Oh yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Take those criticisms and you figure out Okay, yeah, I
really didn't identify who was speaking, or I was real
vague about it, And here's ways to make it more clear.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
That's great. So what does a typical writing day look
like for you? What's your process?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Well? I usually get up very very early some days,
by nine or ten, easy, and try to try to
hit it hard, to be honest. Monday through Thursday, I
still got the professor thing going on, so I can
(31:18):
still do some minor editing and that kind of stuff.
But Friday, Saturday, Sunday, big points.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Your book's been out like a week and a half.
I thought you'd be a millionaire by now.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I know that.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
That's of all my illusions about writing.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, that was my.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah. A big task today was to move away the
bails of money out from in front of my computer
so I could get to the microphone. It's a difficult task,
but it's something I'm willing to do for the good
of the cause.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Well, we appreciate that. Let me ask you one last quest.
My impression is this is the first book in a series,
am I right?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh? Yes, yeah, So I love Donna like her next tale,
which should be done I think by Christmas time or so.
Uh it's called she Works Hard for the Money and
involves Donna disco references and uh, Donna is signed to
(32:28):
tell you the baby.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Before you finish this, that I was in high school
when disco happened and I hated it, but I loved
your first book. So yeah, disco appreciation is not required.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm just oh, no, no, no. We look at it
very much as a cheeky little moment of our culture.
But right right when I was mentioned to my kids,
I'm like, just to be sure, you guys know what
disco is, like, oh my god, yes, we we're going
to have a disco party and all these kind of
things because of them. They think of it kind of
(33:02):
the way we think of like square dancing and stuff.
It's just way back in the ancient days. Yes, But
everybody right.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Now, please tell us about the next book.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The next book again has Donna and her same eclectic cast.
But in the second book, she is a babysitting she's
relegated to babysitting a VIP's kindergarten daughter, and she wakes
up she'd been poisoned and somebody took the little girl.
(33:38):
And so now everybody wants to find the little girl,
and everybody wants to beat Donna for a bit for
you know, messing up this incredibly simple police assignment.
Speaker 7 (33:52):
Mmm.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Sounds good. I look forward to reading that.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
Our listeners probably noticed that Marty's pretty funny and book.
The book, even though it is a detective mystery, is
absolutely a lot of fun, very funny.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Absolutely, that's kind of my goal. It's not a stay
awake and have nightmares kind of story. It's a it's
a laugh out loud kind of bit of escapism and
and I think everybody could use just a touch of
that right now, especially.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Sure, Marty, thanks so much for being on the podcast.
Hope to see you at writer Con next year. Absolutely,
since Marty was nice enough to mention during the interview
(34:49):
that he'd been on the writer concreute, well nice is
probably pushing it, since I fed him a question on
that very subject. But I wanted to say that the
website is ready to take your reservation for the writer
Con Cruise next year. That's May thirty, first sailing out
of Seattle on a beautiful Alaskan cruise. Now, when you
(35:12):
get to the website, which of course is writercon dot com,
I don't want anyone to be disturbed or feel like
we're hiding something because you can't immediately tell what the
price is. What you'll see is the price of the
writing course part of the cruise. The reason we don't
list the cruise part of the cruise is because it
all depends on what room you want. Do you want
(35:33):
double occupancy or single, or interior or exteriraor balcony. There
are way too many possibilities. So we give you all
the information so that you can book the room yourself
or email me and I will happily do it for
you once I know what you want. I will say
this though, a double occupancy interior room is not that expensive.
(35:58):
I mean it's all relative. But if you're sitting there thinking, oh,
I could never afford this, I bet you would be
pleasantly surprised when you check it out. We have worked,
and I mean this, we have worked double hard to
find something that will be not only a beautiful, memorable experience,
but also affordable. Plus, of course, you get twenty hours
(36:18):
of writing instruction scheduled while the boat is at sea,
not when it's in port. And you'd rather go see
glaciers or whatever, so consider the writer Con Cruise and
for more info go to the website writer con dot com.
There'll be links in the notes, and you're always welcome
to email me at Wilburn at gmail dot com.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
All Right, I hope we get to see whales. I'm
so excited. I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Well, don't you always get what you wish for? I mean,
come on, I'm not gonna ask until next time. Keep
writing and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
See you next time,
This week on the writer com podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Well knowing as I do the woes of life that
we see every day on daytime television. The most important
crisis you have is whether or not you have an
extended car warranty, and if you don't, your life is
destined for ruin.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to writer Kon, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, award
winning author of the want Ln Files book series.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich, Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
us today. Now, if you're a regular listener, you know
last time we talked about movies made from books, but
since today's interview guest has a musical theme in his books,
I thought i'd ask about music, like what music do
you like to listen to when you're writing or doing
(01:04):
other kind of works. Some people I know, listen to music.
Some people don't. Laura, as if I didn't know, what
about you, do you listen to music when you're writing? No?
Speaker 5 (01:14):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
I actually find that distracting. So when I have music playing,
I just want to sing along to it, and my
mind is very focused on words, and so instead of
generating my own I'll be listening to that. So I
did that question a lot. People ask me a lot
like what kind of currently music do I listen to?
But I don't like listening to music?
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Yeah, well I don't get I mean, I love listening
to music but trying to write because like you were saying,
then I'm going to start listening to the music and
singing or thinking huh, I wonder if I can do
that on the piano, and pretty soon I'm not paying
attention to my book anymore exactly. Jesse, this may not
be a fair question for you, but because you probably
(01:57):
can't listen to music when you're doing sound engineering.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Oh just makes me sad. It makes me sad.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Something when I'm driving or when I used to do
I used to have a lot of like entry level jobs,
or I was doing a lot of data entry and
that was a lot of music listening and podcast listening times.
So yes, it is good to have something going on
when you're doing something either creative or mundane even.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Right, or something that doesn't take uh, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Doesn't take all of it. Yeah, so yeah, no, I've
I can't.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
There are some audio this this question has come up
in like audio engineer Facebook groups I'm in and whatnot.
Like some people are actually able to listen to music
when they're editing, not necessarily mastering. So like when you're
just like removing ums and yeahs and whatnot, sure you
could have like some classical music or things without lyrics playing, right,
But when you're mastering, you have to focus all of
(02:49):
it on what you're hearing.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
So sure that makes sense. That's sad for me, well,
as I have already pretty much hinted. Today we are
interviewing a debut author, first book, and it may take
you back a few years to the glorious era of disco.
We're interviewing Marty Ludlam, who is a lawyer and a
professor and now the author of the first in a
(03:11):
series of mystery novels set in Vegas and featuring the
disco divas led by Detective Donner Donna summer Wyzinski. And yes,
she was named after exactly who you think she was
named after. So of course the title of this first
book is at first, I was afraid Are you singing already? Jesse?
(03:34):
I mean, you can hear it in your head, can't you?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
How you not?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
We will, well, that's the idea. I'm sure get people's attention.
We'll talk to Marty about his new book, which was
just released last week.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
But first the news.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
News story number one sad news for fans of Kindlvella,
except I'm not sure there were actually any or many
fans of Kindevella Kindlevella, which is why it's going to
close in February of next year. Vella, as most of
you probably already know, was Amazon's in house attempt to
(04:27):
build an audience for serialized fiction that is released chapter
by chapter, like you know, the old Saturday Morning Cereals
or whatnot. It hasn't even been around for four years,
but they're already shutting it down and stories on it
are going to be SIPHONDOCT to some other program. Maybe
(04:48):
they can go to Wattpad or Tapas or something like that.
But apparently it just was not working out, So Vella
is now going to join the tomb of failed Amazon
initiative like Kendall Scout. Laura and I can both talk
about that when or Kendall Worlds, which was their attempt
(05:08):
to create shared worlds that other people could write in,
but it never actually took off, and actually the reaction
to this was pretty muted. I think most people thought
it was going away before it actually went away. Laura,
why do you think vella failed?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
I'm not sure why it didn't catch on with readers.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
I actually hopped in very early on, right when it
first started, and I did see some traction, but I
don't think people wanted to pay for it. Something about
the system just wasn't working. My free episodes got lots
and lots and lots of attention, but I didn't see
(05:53):
people moving beyond that right to the episodes that were then.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Pay to read.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Right Well. I mean, I think it was supposed to
compete with like what Pad, but unless you're in the
paid section, people can read entire books that what Pad
for free. It's not like, Okay, now that you're hooked
on the story, you've got to start paying for it.
I did a boy this is way back when it started,
but the book that has now been published under the
(06:22):
title Plot Counterplot I started as a kindle vella, but
after eight episodes or so, I just thought this is
a waste of time and killed it and just published
it as a book like all the others. I don't know, Jesse,
you have any thoughts on this. Why what's the reason
for the latest Amazon wash out?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, it was one of those things where sometimes companies
like Amazon like launched something with authors already partnered to
do a thing, and sometimes they don't, and this is
one of the times when they didn't. And so if
there wasn't somebody, you know, playing with this new medium,
it was going to be very hard for it to
take cothic. It was a good idea, but again, like
(07:03):
shuffling it off to just Kindles and just Amazon stopped
a lot of people from engaging with it the way
they would like to.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
So yeah, I think a lot of people never heard
about it and never really engage. Plus, Russell Nority has
talked about this and has called him the author's stack
and said he was basically surprised it lasted as long
as it did because it didn't look to him like
anybody was making money off it, not Amazon and not authors,
so it just didn't find its audience. I guess, okay,
(07:34):
News story number two. This is a big event for
me every year when Written Word Media releases its author
survey and the survey for twenty twenty four has just
been released just to explain Written word Media terrific outfit,
mostly specializing and helping small presses and self published people
(07:57):
find ways of marketing their books online. So you need
to understand that their survey is one all volunteer. It
probably attracts more attention from people at small presses or
self published than otherwise, and that you know, if it
has any validity, that means you have to trust what
(08:18):
authors say in closed. You know nobody's going to see
what they said. There's no reason to fib about it.
But at any rate, I think it's a terrific survey.
It's the best information I see every year about what's
really going on in the book world and what's working
and what's not. The good news is the indie author
(08:41):
community is going like gangbusters. Seventy six percent of the
respondents said they were self published sixteen hybrid, meaning that
they have their fingers in both self publishing and traditional publishing,
but only seven point eight percent were fully traditional published.
(09:02):
This will surprise no one. Romances by far the most
popular genre. But here's something I did think was interesting
and Jesse, I think you've got a chart on this.
Amazon is generating over eighty percent of the author's profits,
and that's primarily through Ku. That is, people who are
(09:23):
exclusive to Amazon and ebooks Kindle unlimited. But if you
look at that chart, you see that little blip, I mean,
it's barely even visible compared to the Amazon tower. But
the number two column is direct sales. I've never seen
that before. In other words, that's authors selling books directly
(09:45):
to readers, presumably from their websites at least in most cases.
And after that you see Apple, Cobo. At this point,
the line is getting so thin you can barely see it. Kickstarter, Google,
and Nook meaning Barnes and Noble. In other words, Barnes
and Noble is sixth and number one is Kindle and
(10:06):
number two is direct sales. Laura, did any of this
surprise you?
Speaker 6 (10:11):
No, not really really reflects what I see in my
royalty statements pretty pretty closely.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Well, you are you thinking about adding direct sales maybe
to your website?
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Well after seeing this yet, I suppose maybe the one piece.
And I have looked into this and I've seen some
ways to get it started, but I haven't carved out
the time to implement it.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think that maybe the big takeaway or one of two,
maybe because I know more authors or you know, at
one point. I know when I started thirty plus years ago,
authors would always say, oh, I write books, I don't
sell them and wouldn't even you know, like bring books
to an event or whatever. But that world has changed
and a lot of people are now selling direct from
(10:59):
their way website, and especially if it's just an ebook,
why not. I mean, Brandon Sanderson has a huge warehouse.
He can ship print books. Most people probably don't want to,
but sending ebooks out is easy. What about the Ku part?
I've said on this podcast before that I choose not
(11:20):
to be Ku exclusive, not really because it makes monetary sense,
but because well, my books be available everywhere. But it
looks like the people making the most money are in
fact KU exclusive. Is that the way to go?
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Well, it's interesting that you bring that up. I actually,
just in time for Halloween pulled back my want onn
Files series and did put it back in Ku. I
had a big burst last year after it hit hard
after a book bub deal. That was a benefit I
(11:58):
think of having it wide very well, but it had
really dwindled to virtually nothing and since I've put it
back in, I'm seeing daily sales again. So I do
think that it was it's better for a series potentially
to be in KU.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Eventually, or are you saying release it wide and then
when sales inevitably start to diminish, then take it k
you exclusive.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
Kind of what I've done in this case, although I
have another series that I'm going to be writing, and
at this point I'm thinking maybe I just go KU
from the start. I think KU can really benefit a
series because you're getting a lot of pages read that way.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
My women's fiction is still wide.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Okay, Jesse, outside of the writing, pray you buy ebooks?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I do?
Speaker 4 (12:50):
How do you find your books?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It's okay, So first, like, as a non author, let
me ask this this bar graph, Yeah, that Amazon.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That includes that includes both like people.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Just buying ebooks off Amazon, and that also includes like
money that comes from books that are in Kindle Unlimited.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yes, okay, although the you know, the text and the
report makes it pretty clear that the big money is
coming from KU. But anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Well, I asked that because like, I joined Kindle Unlimited
when it makes economic sense. For example, when I was
reading the murder Bot Diaries. Like six of the seven
of those books we're in the Kindle unlimited, So I
was like, okay, I will join Kindle ulimited for a
month or two, however long it takes me too to
read these, And then I bought the seventh book, so
like from Amazon, and you know, so.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's it's how do I find books?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, it's a lot of like word of mouth recommendations
on Reddit or from people I know, or every once
in a while when I'm like, am I up to
date on like all of the best fantasy or sci fi?
I will do a like a you know, top ten
fantasy sci fi blog posts to see make sure that
I haven't missed somebody.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
So you're the savvy shopper, but it's clear that you're
you'll use ku if it's beneficial, but not, Yeah, get
hooked on it.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
No.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I mean a lot of times I use the library
if I can so, especially if.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
It's a we love library.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, a lot of times I can't get the first
book of in a series on the library because it's
usually the most like requested one, so I'll buy that
one and then maybe read. I like to give authors
money at some point though, so like I will eventually
buy them anyway.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But sometimes I want to Right now.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Let's see. Okay, well it's time for Craft Corner. But Jesse,
now that we've done this three times and i've heard
the what do you call that? Is that a sound effect?
Segue the thing you're doing?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
So for our listeners if you're curious, it is one
a sound effect called the DJ airhorn, followed by my
voice run through a series to make me sound scary.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
So do we?
Speaker 4 (14:59):
I mean, couldn't you just do that live? It would
be more entertaining.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I could you want to do a live take of
it right now?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
For today's Craft Corner, which is gonna feature. All right,
let me introduce it first and then you can do
your sound character. Okay, So today in Craft Corner, we're
bringing it back home because nobody does it better than
my sweetheart, Lara Burnheart. I have heard her give a
fabulous talk on imagery for an hour at Ryder Con. Well,
(15:25):
now you've got two minutes or less, Lara, what could
you do? Let's find out? Lara after Jesse take off,
Jesse take it away?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
All right, i'mna see if this works. Let's try this
hold on craft corner. I don't know if you heard
the airhorn.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
If you didn't, we definitely heard it. That was good.
Speaker 7 (15:48):
Yes, Lara, go for it, okay.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Imagery is.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
A way of bringing an emotional connection for your reader
to your story.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
It is.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
A term that we use to describe evoking the five senses.
Why do we want to evoke the five senses in
our stories?
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Because that's how.
Speaker 6 (16:12):
We bring that emotional quality to it. We tie a
lot of our memories and our emotions to our senses.
Think of something that you smell but immediately takes you
back to a memory or maybe causes nostalgia because it
reminds you of some one or some time in your
life that was very important to you for some reason.
(16:37):
We use rhetoric, which is the intentional use of language,
in order to achieve imagery in our books, and we're
talking about things like similes and metaphors. This is language
that you might associate more often with literary fiction, kind
(16:58):
of a heightened level of language. But I find that
it's very effective in anything because it can add more
complexity and more resonance in your readers than just describing
what's happening. When you give them something to wait their
emotions to in your work, They're going to be far
(17:20):
more engaged and more interested in what it is that
you're trying to say.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, that's a great tip. I mean, when people are
developing characters, they think about backstory, they think about to
show or tell, but I think they often don't think
about imagery. And you're so exactly right, So thank you.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
I love to use the example, even I Douglas Adams
use this. I love to use example of his the
spaceships hung in the air exactly the way bricks don't.
That's imagery right there, and that's sci fi and humor.
So it's not just literary fiction that benefits from from imagery.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Fantastic, Thank you so much, Laura. All right, let's talk
to our guest, Marty Ludlam. Marty Ludlam, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Thank you, thank you great to be here.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Okay, our traditional first question, if you could offer writers
one piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, knowing as I do, the woes of life that
we see every day on daytime television, the most important
crisis you have is whether or not you have an
extended car warranty, and if you don't your life is
destined for ruin. I know we had a presidential election,
(18:54):
but it seems to pale in comparison to the worms
about your car warranty.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
We've never had that answer before. I got to say,
that's an all time first. Thanks. All right, Marty, you
are secretly, maybe not secretly, you are like me a
writer a lawyer was what I meant to that. We're
both writers too, but you're a lawyer, you're a professor.
(19:22):
I've done that too, And now your first book has
been published. I mean, first, where do you find the time?
And second? Why?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, to be honest, I've been working on this since well,
nineteen ninety four. We had well, we had a child
born in ninety two and another one in ninety four,
and until they came of age and got independent and
no longer wanted any money from me, I didn't really
(19:55):
have a.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Whole lot of spirit that start.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
What I don't know, sometime after age thirty. It just
kind of falls out.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Yes, okay, but I've been.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Working on it. It just never got a huge amount
of attention until the parenting responsibilities decreased and completely relatable.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
At that first book, I had been working on her
well over a decade before I got really serious about it,
and kind of the same thing.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
My other responsibilities were kind of peering out and I
was able to focus.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh yeah that. You know, life gets in the way,
especially of writing, because if it's not your career, everybody
looks at it as oh, that's you know, like watching TV.
You know, you could pick it up put it off anytime,
and there's no big consequence to missing a day of TV. Yeah,
(20:55):
writing it's a little bit harder to carve out that
time for you.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
All right. Now, let's talk about your book, which has
just been released. It's your first book, and I got
to say that this disco themed mystery series is one
of the genius ideas I've come across in a long time.
How did you come up with that?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Actually sort of I didn't more it was a I
started out with a Again, see if this sounds familiar.
My first character in the first book was a lawyer
that works in small town in Oklahoma, and that's just done. Yeah, yeah,
(21:39):
that just didn't take off. And then I had my
second version of it was an African American woman that
became a police officer, and she's basically the same as
my Donna character. And then when you know, we had
some aspects of cultural acquisition and all those kind of things,
(22:04):
especially using a lot of humor, it might not be
taken the right way. And so really from the ryder
Con cruise that I did, I got a whole bunch
of feedback and they're like, hey, change a character and
instead of making you know, don't make her black, it
(22:27):
doesn't need to be, but certainly make her female. And
I think one of the key things was also a
Melanie suggested. It's like the first version of Donna was
she had huge food issues because she was overweight. She's like,
women hate that. It's like every woman can relate to it,
(22:48):
but every woman hates it at the same time. Yeah,
and so I'm like, okay, I don't know the opposite way.
And instead Donna has to eat constantly everything in sight
to keep up her ninety seven pound frame. And so
that makes her kind of a quirky female character. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
Absolutely, yes, And it's important to note.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
So that's that's Donna. Donna Summer with.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Necky after the disco Queen.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
Yes, after the disco Queen, give us can you give
us a little more insight into her.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, she's a Las Vegas police officer, newly minted detective,
just been promoted to detective, and has to deal with
especially in the police force, it's it's a sea of testosterone,
strongly male oriented. You've got to be super macho, only
the most violent survive, and you've got to be the
(23:47):
tough guy. And now we've got an undersized woman who's
competing and doing well and that kind of very very
hostile and vironment, I guess we would have to say, right.
And she deals with, you know, not only having to
solve crimes, but deals with the love life that's pretty
(24:09):
much a dumpster fire, and deals with a family that's
pretty much any psychiatrist's mad dream about having perpetual customers,
and you know, having it also said in modern Las
Vegas allows you to have a set of eclectic supporting casts.
(24:31):
That we've got a woman who's a Shirley Temple look alike,
I got a part time psychic, got raincoat Ronnie, which,
of course the name tells you that it's going to
be weird. And then her partner who's seven foot tall,
former NBA player who's retired and become a policeman. And
(24:53):
so now You have a little bitty donna, almost like
a father daughter duo everywhere they go, and they got.
Speaker 6 (25:02):
Those other ladies that you mentioned, those are her disco divas, right.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Disco divas, because it turns out that they actually won
a trophy in the police, a trophy case. It's usually
reserved for softball and flag football and all these kind
of events. They've got. They want to dance off at
one of the Las Vegas clubs with the disco theme,
and so they've been teased forever as the disco divas,
(25:29):
but she embraces it.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Nice.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
You mentioned the writer Con Cruise, which I appreciated beyond
the obvious reason because as you were talking about the
evolution of your character, I thought some of this sounds
familiar to me. Yeah, you were there on the very
first ever writer Con cruise, weren't you, And now in a.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Few years twenty twenty, I think, yeah, right before, yeah,
right before the life we got lucky. In fact, when
we were out on that cruise, we check the news
every day to make sure they were going to let
us leave the boat. And we had friends who were
on a cruise two weeks later and they were the
(26:17):
last ones to get out after that, it just closed
and if you're still at sea, you stayed at sea,
and it's.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Like, wow, yeah, I remember the security. Yeah, when we embarked,
they said, have you been to China recently?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
No?
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Okay, and that.
Speaker 8 (26:32):
Was the yeah, complete honor system. Yes, yeah, it's life
and death. But we're just gonna let your wing it.
You know, if you want to tell us the truth,
it's okay. But if not, we're really not going to
double check. You know, it's not that big deal.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Well, beyond COVID, can you talk about the writer con
cruise experience? I mean only if you have good things
to say, but.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Oh yes, yes, talk about it. Well, I do have
two pages that stuff you paid me to say, so
I'll read some of that.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm just kidding, and he didn't pay me yet. But
to be honest, there's kind of two different things for writers.
There's a conference, which is more you as a sponge,
absorbing all kinds of content from a variety of speakers.
On a retreat like the cruise, it's more in reverse.
(27:27):
You examine each writer individually and you go into a
whole lot of detail about your project, what you're working on,
and you know, it's a smaller group environment, and so
it's a really very different experience. And that's why I
think once you've gone to several conferences, you want to
go to retreat and concentrate on one specific work, and it'll
(27:48):
really rocket it far ahead. It really will.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
I was really impressed with you talking about how this
book and even your character has changed.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Completely while you've been working on it. I think that.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
That's just such an admirable, just really professional and committed
approach to the writing. This isn't working, but how to
make it work, and being being open to constructive criticism
and advice that you were getting and then being willing
to make those changes to me.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
Says a lot about how professional committed you are.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think. Can you talk about Yeah, A lot of
it comes from I have a lot of writing and
academic environment, and there you get a lot of criticism.
I wouldn't say much of it is constructive. A lot
of it is we don't like it, and that's that's
your whole comment.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
That's as it gets.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And so a lot of that you have to parse
it out from sharing it with friends and say hey,
read this oversee which think and you'll get ten different
bits of feedback that have ten different directions about what
they think needs to be fixed. And I think that's
kind of toughened me up a little bit about taking
the criticism still hurts when you get it. You know,
(29:13):
when you get a review back and somebody looks it
over and there's ready ink all over it, It's like,
I'm just going to set it down for a day
and think about something else and then I'll come back
and now I just kind of treat it not as
these are criticisms, but instead this is a to do list.
(29:34):
These are ways to make it. These are ways to
make it better.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
No one's book was ever improved by friends saying, oh, Bill,
it's terrific. Exactly make you feel good doesn't improve the book.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
No, you need that critical view. And you know, I
tell my students kind of with their writing assignments that
you know, you you're always the last person to notice
your pants are unzipped, and everybody will notice it before you,
and some won't say anything, some will. But why again,
(30:12):
you think to yourself, well, of course my pants are zipped.
They have to be zipped. I always zip my pants,
and it's the same way in your writing. The stuff
that's absolutely so crystal clear to you. When another person
reads it, goes, hey, there's two pages here. I can't
figure out who's talking. It's like you just need to
(30:34):
look inside my mind because I know exactly who it is.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Oh yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Take those criticisms and you figure out Okay, yeah, I
really didn't identify who was speaking, or I was real
vague about it, And here's ways to make it more clear.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
That's great. So what does a typical writing day look
like for you? What's your process?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Well? I usually get up very very early some days,
by nine or ten, easy, and try to try to
hit it hard, to be honest. Monday through Thursday, I
still got the professor thing going on, so I can
(31:18):
still do some minor editing and that kind of stuff.
But Friday, Saturday, Sunday, big points.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Your book's been out like a week and a half.
I thought you'd be a millionaire by now.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I know that.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
That's of all my illusions about writing.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, that was my.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah. A big task today was to move away the
bails of money out from in front of my computer
so I could get to the microphone. It's a difficult task,
but it's something I'm willing to do for the good
of the cause.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Well, we appreciate that. Let me ask you one last quest.
My impression is this is the first book in a series,
am I right?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh? Yes, yeah, So I love Donna like her next tale,
which should be done I think by Christmas time or so.
Uh it's called she Works Hard for the Money and
involves Donna disco references and uh, Donna is signed to
(32:28):
tell you the baby.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Before you finish this, that I was in high school
when disco happened and I hated it, but I loved
your first book. So yeah, disco appreciation is not required.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm just oh, no, no, no. We look at it
very much as a cheeky little moment of our culture.
But right right when I was mentioned to my kids,
I'm like, just to be sure, you guys know what
disco is, like, oh my god, yes, we we're going
to have a disco party and all these kind of
things because of them. They think of it kind of
(33:02):
the way we think of like square dancing and stuff.
It's just way back in the ancient days. Yes, But
everybody right.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Now, please tell us about the next book.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The next book again has Donna and her same eclectic cast.
But in the second book, she is a babysitting she's
relegated to babysitting a VIP's kindergarten daughter, and she wakes
up she'd been poisoned and somebody took the little girl.
(33:38):
And so now everybody wants to find the little girl,
and everybody wants to beat Donna for a bit for
you know, messing up this incredibly simple police assignment.
Speaker 7 (33:52):
Mmm.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Sounds good. I look forward to reading that.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
Our listeners probably noticed that Marty's pretty funny and book.
The book, even though it is a detective mystery, is
absolutely a lot of fun, very funny.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Absolutely, that's kind of my goal. It's not a stay
awake and have nightmares kind of story. It's a it's
a laugh out loud kind of bit of escapism and
and I think everybody could use just a touch of
that right now, especially.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Sure, Marty, thanks so much for being on the podcast.
Hope to see you at writer Con next year. Absolutely,
since Marty was nice enough to mention during the interview
(34:49):
that he'd been on the writer concreute, well nice is
probably pushing it, since I fed him a question on
that very subject. But I wanted to say that the
website is ready to take your reservation for the writer
Con Cruise next year. That's May thirty, first sailing out
of Seattle on a beautiful Alaskan cruise. Now, when you
(35:12):
get to the website, which of course is writercon dot com,
I don't want anyone to be disturbed or feel like
we're hiding something because you can't immediately tell what the
price is. What you'll see is the price of the
writing course part of the cruise. The reason we don't
list the cruise part of the cruise is because it
all depends on what room you want. Do you want
(35:33):
double occupancy or single, or interior or exteriraor balcony. There
are way too many possibilities. So we give you all
the information so that you can book the room yourself
or email me and I will happily do it for
you once I know what you want. I will say
this though, a double occupancy interior room is not that expensive.
(35:58):
I mean it's all relative. But if you're sitting there thinking, oh,
I could never afford this, I bet you would be
pleasantly surprised when you check it out. We have worked,
and I mean this, we have worked double hard to
find something that will be not only a beautiful, memorable experience,
but also affordable. Plus, of course, you get twenty hours
(36:18):
of writing instruction scheduled while the boat is at sea,
not when it's in port. And you'd rather go see
glaciers or whatever, so consider the writer Con Cruise and
for more info go to the website writer con dot com.
There'll be links in the notes, and you're always welcome
to email me at Wilburn at gmail dot com.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
All Right, I hope we get to see whales. I'm
so excited. I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Well, don't you always get what you wish for? I mean,
come on, I'm not gonna ask until next time. Keep
writing and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
See you next time,
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