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August 22, 2025 46 mins
Journey back to 1997 for a rare and explosive interview that shook the foundations of UFO research. This episode unravels Bob Lazar's historic conversation with drag racing legend Don Garlits, where classified technologies and extraterrestrial propulsion systems are exposed in unprecedented detail. Through this previously buried interview, we explore Lazar's controversial claims about Area 51, element 115, and the reverse engineering of alien spacecraft. From detailed descriptions of anti-gravity propulsion to claims about hidden government programs, discover why this particular interview has become legendary in UFO research circles. We analyze the technical specifications, cross-reference his claims with modern scientific discoveries, and examine why this conversation continues to intrigue researchers and scientists decades later.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Bob, for the benefit of our viewers. Someone after that
doesn't know who you are. Tell us who you are,
give us your credentials, and where you've worked.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, I'm a physicist and a scientist. I've worked at
various government institutions, one of them being Los Almos National
Labs in Los Alamos, New Mexico. And also I'm more
prominently known for working at Area S four, which is
about fifteen miles south of Area fifty one in the
Nevada Desert, which is a top circuit, top secret government

(00:32):
research facility.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Where did you go to school, Bob?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I went to school at MIT and Caltech, also a
couple of other junior colleges here and there in California.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
And what was your field of study?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Phil a study was physics and electronics technology.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
And when you were working for these different installations before
you went to S four, you didn't have any connection
with Flying Saucers whatsoever?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Did you No, I didn't have any connection in it.
In fact, I didn't even believe in him. I thought
it was just, you know, the rantings and ramblings.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Of crazy people more or less.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
When was the first time that you actually begin to
believe or got interested in the subject enough to want
to go someplace and maybe work with them.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I was never interested in the subject at all,
primarily because I didn't believe in it. It's when I
was offered a job working on advanced propulsion systems. Is
how it was advertised to me, And it was only
later that I found out the job I was employed
to do was to back engineer extraterrestrial craft or an

(01:39):
extraterrestrial craft, and it really happened backwards from the normal
chain of events.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
How did you come to get the job at the S.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Four area, Well, that's a good question, and I really
don't know if I can answer it. I don't know
what motivated them. There are certainly more intelligent, more educated
people around. There is a wide variety of high profile
scientists and physicists that they could have pulled out of
the works anywhere. If anything. You know, your guess is

(02:10):
as good as mine on that. I really don't know
why I was chosen. I did have not really connections
per se, but I didn't know a couple people that
were also involved in the project. I really didn't know
they were at the time, but you know, they could
have put a name in and you know, could have

(02:30):
wound up that way.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Do you think that doctor tell her might have had
anything to do with it.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's a substantial possibility. At one time, while I was
at working at Los Alamos, I went to see one
of his lectures.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
I got there early and he.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Was outside, and coincidentally, at that particular time, I was
on the front page of the newspaper he was reading,
and he was reading about an article about a small
Honda Civic that I had converted to run on jet power.
And I introduced myself and explained what I was doing.
And some years later I had sent a resume to

(03:06):
him and some other national labs when I decided to
get back into the scientific field after I had moved
to Las Vegas. And you know, it is substantially possible
that he had a.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Hand in doing it.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
He did refer me to someone at EGNG, which in
turn did lead to the employment at As for when did.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
You actually see the first vehicle or ship or craft
that you knew for sure wasn't of this manufacturer on this.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Planet, Well, I did see it, probably the second or
third time I went out to the facility, and at
that time I wasn't convinced that's what the craft was.
When I first saw it, I thought that this was
a US made very advanced next generation fighter, and in

(03:57):
fact that this would explain all the UFO sightings. It
was only later to find out that that wasn't the
case when I started receiving some documentation on the craft
and actually got to go in it and found out
what the scope of the project was. But you know,
I had seen it earlier on, but really didn't know
what I was looking at.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
And what was the scope of the project. What were
you supposed to do to this craft?

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, the scope of the group there, the people at
a sport were to back engineer, essentially take apart and
discover the manufacturing process and materials used to produce this craft,
this flying saucer. More specifically, my group consisted of me
and another person his name was Barry. That we dealt

(04:47):
with the power and propulsion system of the craft, and
we were to back engineer that we were to see
if the power and propulsion system could be duplicated, and
if it could possibly be duplicated with earthly materials instead
of any exotic foreign materials that we might have come across.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
When you saw that craft and you realized it was
an alien craft? Did that upset you in any way
that knowing that here was a vehicle from another system
setting right here on the planet Earth, and of course
always believing that there was no such thing. It was
the hallucinations and so forth. What was your feeling inside

(05:25):
when you when you were confronted with the reality that
all that you had believed before was gone now and
you had to take a whole new look at things.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, actually, that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
A lot of people have said, boy, that must have
been exciting, and you know that really wasn't the case.
The feeling really came over me when I was permitted
in the craft to see the placement of the subsystems
that we were going to be working on. And it
was not a feeling of excitement at all. It was
a very ominous feeling, a feeling, like I've said before, that.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know you shouldn't be there. It's it's very hard to.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Relay, but it was a real overwhelming, odd feeling that
I had. You know, without trying to use a pun,
it was a very unearthly atmosphere and you know, as
it should be, because none of the materials were familiar.
None of the architecture of the device was familiar, and

(06:18):
it was just it was very odd.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, because obviously they were here and we weren't there,
So you would, being a scientist, you would know the
ramifications of such a situation, Which brings me to this question,
how far in the future do you estimate that craft
was to what we're doing at the present time.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, I've heard other people estimate things like that, saying, well,
it's a thousand or ten thousand years advanced of our technology,
and I don't really find that to be the case.
All I really find to be the case is probably
a technology it's about one hundred or two hundred years
in advance of us. And the only reason being is
because they stumbled upon a device, a machine that can

(07:02):
actually make gravity, that can produce gravitational waves.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
And this is something that our science and physics knows.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
We know what gravity is, we know how it works,
but we really just observe it. We don't understand it,
and we certainly don't have a machine that can create
a gravitational wave.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
And because they've developed this, they have a unique.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Propulsion system and that has a lot of offshoot possibilities
and other uses. Also, the power source is fairly unique.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
We know of its existence.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
There is a total annihilation reaction. We know of the
three atomic reactions we know of, or fission as you
see in an atomic bomb, fusion as you see in
a hydrogen bomb, and we're currently trying to make a
fusion reactor to provide power cleanly. And we also know
there's a total annihilation reaction, which is an extremely virtually
one hundred percent efficient reaction that you know, we're really

(07:54):
not haven't even begun to do any research with. But
you know, here these systems in place, operating, and it
really didn't look that far in advance, you know, of
what we were.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, one interesting thing, that reactor that powered this vehicle
was very small in relationship to the power it produced,
was it not?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Oh, it was tremendously tiny. Looking at something that puts
out more power than an average nuclear power plant, and
if anyone lives near one of those, you know how
big those things are. And we're looking at something, you know,
scarcely bigger than a basketball that's doing this incredible.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Do you think that these beings pose any threat to
the human race?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I don't think so. And again that speculation. I really
wouldn't know anything about that. But if the intent was
to do harm, you know, from all indications, it seems like,
you know, the earth has been visited for thousands of years,
and if there was any intent to do harm, it
would have already been done. If anything, Now, this is
just my personal speculation. I think we're more of a

(08:55):
Disneyland an interesting thing to observe, but I don't believe
there's any real direct interaction. There may be, but I
don't see any evidence of it.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Why doesn't the government just come clean on all of this,
because there's so much speculation on it, there's so much
disinformation out there. Why don't they just come forward and
say this is what's going on. They don't pose any threat,
and it's just something you're just gonna have to live
up to. People.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Well, it's it's difficult to do that.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
First of all, if they were going to come completely clean,
they're going to have to admit that as far back
as fifty years ago they knew this was going on,
and in the meantime they've been spreading disinformation and lies
about events that you.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Know that have occurred.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
So they're not going to go and say, we've been
lying to you for fifty years, so to start with,
there's a problem there. Even if they started today and said, well,
we found out a couple things, and you know, here's
what we found out. It because these systems are advanced
and they pose a real unique function. They present a
substantial weapon potential, and because of that, all the information

(10:00):
is certainly not going to be released. However, I've always
wondered why, at least the existence of the craft at
least a statement to the effect of we have found
some material, we have some information, a lot of it
pertains to national security. However, we can verify the existence
of life elsewhere other than Earth and technology that we have,

(10:25):
and you know, perhaps release a little bit of information here.
But they're not even doing that. And you know, on
that note, there might be several reasons that we haven't
thought of.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
A lot who knows.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
What beliefs that it might interfere with. You know, it's
a scary thought. You know, we've pretty much put ourselves
in the center of the entire universe that we're the
you know, most superior.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Race, and.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
You know, it might upset people to find out that
we're really not that significant.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Well, with that thought of mind, do you think perhaps
maybe that the aliens themselves may be saying, look, it's
better if you just kind of keep quat and let
us just going about observing your little disney Land, and
and you think that might be part of it too.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
It could certainly be part of it.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
It could It could be the architecture of the whole
plan might have been laid down by them. Who knows
what kind of communication, if any, that we've had. But
you know, again, your guess is as good as mine
on that.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
How many how many different types of the craft? Did
you see just one or were there other other styles?

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, there was one craft that I worked on that
That craft was a very sleek, thin looking craft compared
to the other ones that were there. There were nine
nine craft. I nicknamed this one the Sport model because
it was a very sleek looking, fifty style flying saucer
looking thing, and the name pretty much stuck and people
were using that name.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
I really don't know much about the other.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Crafts other than the fact that whether it was accidentally
or you know, just a coincidence, that I happened to
see them one time. All the hanger doors were open,
at one particular time when I was there, and normally
they were closed. But for the most part, the only
information I have is the h on the craft that
I particularly worked on.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
So you don't have any idea whether the other craft
came from different systems or where they were all from
the same system. You have no idea about that.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Well, I do know for a fact that the power
and propulsion system and all the crafts were the same,
So that that either says you know, now you have
to start speculating that number one, they either all come
from the same manufacturer, or number two, someone is subbing
out parts. And you know, I mean, your mind can

(12:37):
run away on this somewhere because you see, obviously a
vehicle like this is produced, well, there must be a
factory somewhere, and you know, eventually, you know, your mind
just runs off with you and you have to draw
a line somewhere.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Of course, I mean, it may be the day that
we will buy the reactor and the system and the
components from this big galactic company that has the exclusive
on it. Maybe there some sort of a patent on
this thing.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
It's possible, but to me, it's so hard to believe.
And I know that's strange coming from me, But you know,
I kind of draw a line between the actual alien
existence and a social structure, and I think that's to
keep my sanity, and I pretty much only deal with
the stuff that I know for fact and it hands
on experience with because your mind can really run away

(13:23):
with you and who knows what's going on. You'll find
yourself standing outside, steering at the sky, wondering why no
one's going to talk to you.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
And so to keep my sanity day, I just deal.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
With, you know, what I actually know to be fact,
and try not to speculate too much.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Getting back to that, have you actually did you actually
see the craft that you worked on fly operate?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:45):
I did on one occasion close up and on several
occasions from about ten miles away. On the one particular
occasion there was a test flight going on. They came
and got me to witness a short duration flight and
I stood at the door of the hangar and the
craft lifted off the ground, which was an amazing site
in itself, something about fifty two feet in diameter virtually

(14:06):
silently lift off the ground and just move around a
bit and set back down. But you know that was
the close range operation. I got to saw.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Can humans duplicate that vehicle.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
At the time I was there, that was not even
in the realm of possibility.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
How about are they able to fly them?

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, there was a test pilot flying the craft, so
apparently we had developed the expertise at least to lift
the thing off the ground and move it around. As
far as taking at any great distance or taking it
out of the atmosphere, it's something I don't think would happen.
This is, you know, a prize possession and operating extraterrestrial craft,

(14:48):
and you know, things change when you leave the atmosphere,
things like the fact there's no air outside, the fact
that there's not exactly one hundred percent chance you can
bring it back now. So I don't think they're flying
around to Jupiter and taking looks at planets.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
I think they're very careful with it.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
They're just testing it, and you know, and we'll remain
that way for an extremely long time.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
What seem like the government would really be just all
the stops we pulled out to try to duplicate this,
because this seems to me like the ultimate vehicle to
move around, especially in our own solar system.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, yeah, you hit on two points there.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
It is the ultimate vehicle to move around and imagine
being able to go anywhere instantaneously now without any weapon
potential at all, consider that being a weapon potential.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
We have trouble in the Middle East.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
You know how long it takes us to get aircraft
carriers out there, Well, we'll be out there in a
couple of weeks. I mean it takes lots of planes refueling.
If we could be out there in the snap of
a finger and load something up like this with tanks
and weapons, you know, that's a you know, or behind
enemy lines instead of advancing in front of them. I mean,
this is a tremendous weapon and it's because of that,
I think where we see a lot of the secrecy

(15:55):
stemming from. So it's their kind of torn between pulling
out all the stops to move ahead on development and
putting all the stops in to stop anyone from finding
out what's going on.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
So they're they're really between a rock and a hard place. Well,
it can.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Then just exactly how fast is the draft? Do you
know how fast this craft might fly?

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Well, it's because of the way that the craft operates.
It's it's kind of a The question really doesn't make
sense because it's a gravitational propelled device, and we know
gravity bends time and bend space. Distorts time and distorted space.
When you move in a linear mode, you travel x

(16:49):
distance in so much time, which is what determines your velocity. However,
if you're distorting time and distorting the distance, the equation
no longer made make sense.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
It's nonsense.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
So essentially, because of the gravitational propulsion of the device,
you can move at tremendous distances almost instantaneously.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Did you ever figure out or did they tell you
where this craft came from? From, what system or whereabouts?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Well, there was documentation that they had, but you know,
it was something that I couldn't verify. I knew what
I was working on because I got to analyze it
and develop theories about it. But as far as information
from other people, I don't know if the information's correct,
but I assume most of it was, if in fact

(17:39):
it was. They claimed that the craft came from the
Zeta reticular star system.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
It's a star system called the net.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
I believe it's visible only in the southern hemisphere, So
don't bother looking at it if you're in the United States,
but it's about thirty two light years away, which is
a tremendous different distance, considering that even if you were
moving at the speed of light, it would take you
thirty two year to get there in two years to
get back, which of course we can't speed, we can't
even attain.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Now.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Of course, this craft obviously gets back and forth faster
than that.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well it must and because of the assumption and number one,
it's small. Number two, there's no stores for anything such
as food. It doesn't appear to be any waste area,
doesn't even it doesn't appear to hold any cargo. So
wherever it came from, it came from there really fast.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
You know.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
That's another reason I called it the sport model.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
It has no luggage space, kind of like a drags
exactlyom right. It's got one specific function to get from
one place to the other as fast as possible.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
And that's what this looked like. It did.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Sounds good. When were you taking off this project or
did you just quit the project or did the project
get completed.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Or now we're intrough a long story. I never specifically
quit a problem formed and I don't know if you
want to go into a long dissertation here.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
But it was, and.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
I really don't know how to explain it.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
A problem for him from you took some people out
to see the pray.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
A flying well.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
I had taken some people out there, but that wasn't
where the problem had stemmed from. The problem was before that,
because of all the time I was keeping this quiet
from my family and friends everything. A lot of times
I had to leave during the night. At the time,
my wife obviously thought that I was running around with someone.

(19:32):
Now I had given permission during a lot of the
security clearances to monitor my telephone, my mail, everything. I
gave written permission for that. And as months went by,
my wife started having an affair. Now they were monitoring
this and knew about it, but I didn't. And because
they saw potential for an emotional instability, they didn't want

(19:52):
anyone they wanted.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
They wanted the situation.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
To resolve itself, so they stopped me from coming out
to work. And some time went by, and then I
began to get a little concerned. And now I have
all this information, they don't want to be coming out
there anymore. And this is when I started to bring
a couple of friends out to show them what was
going on in case something actually happened to me, and
then we got caught going out there. So it was
just a terrible chain of events that occurred, and eventually

(20:19):
I just do wound.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Up not going there.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Seven zero two.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Seven, Hello, I'm in the middle of an interview. Well, yeah,
the craft is about fifty two feet in diameter and
about sixteen feet high. Originally, some years ago when I
came out, I had the dimensions wrong. I thought it

(20:46):
was about thirty feet in diameter, and because I'm really
not good at judging distances closely. However, I worked with
some of the model people from the Tester Corporation and
they had some artists come out, and what we did
is we took dimensions of things that I knew that
were close up, and they scaled them back and essentially

(21:07):
reconstructed the entire craft that way, and the dimensions and
everything match. So I think the final ones came out
to about fifty two point eight feet in diameter and
sixteen or fifteen point two feet high, something along those lines.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Tell us a little bit about the craft itself inside
where you went inside the craft, what you saw and
just kind of a basic function.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, there's three levels to the craft.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
There's the central level that the hatch lets you into.
This is where there are three seats and the exact
center of the craft.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
There's the reactor that powers it.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Surrounding the reactor or three gravity amplifiers that provides the
power and.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
The field that propelled the craft.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
On the level underneath that are the actual wave guide,
antenna's horns, whatever you want to call them, that actually
emidt the gravity wave. They hang down in a triad
at the bottom level of the craft and they are movable.
The very top part of the craft, there are small
black portholes we've called them on there. Now I don't

(22:15):
know exactly what's on that level, but I firmly believe
that that's the navigational system, and those porthole type devices
are actually sensors that determine the craft's orientation in space.
So it can tell whether it's from starfixes or landmarks
or who knows what, or a system that we're not
familiar with. But that's how the craft determines its orientation

(22:37):
and position in space.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
How about the construction of the different components, So what
was it like? Was it bolted together, snapped together, held
together with velcrow what it.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Was, well, it was actually it was fascinating that there
were no seams, no visible seams that I was able
to see. There were no fastening devices, rivet screws. Everything
had the appearance of being injection molded. All different systems
that were connected to each other were completely smooth and connected,

(23:09):
like you'd see in a giant, you know, plastic injection molder.
There was really nothing that was discernible as a fastening device,
fastening device, or or a seemed to me anywhere.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Which sounds like some technology I'd love to see in
top fuel fine dragtions.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
We could build with some of that kind of Oh,
that's that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Judging from the size of the craft, the height of
each level, the size of the seats, then what would
be your guesstimate as to the size of the.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Beings Judging from the seat and judging from the height
of the ceiling, the being's height probably couldn't have exceeded
four feet. That's tops because when you walk into the craft,
you're hunched.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
All the way over. In fact, you have to practically.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Crawl in, but your hunch all the way over it
til you come up to the center of the craft.
So it it's certainly nothing our size, you know, more
probably half our size, three and a half.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Feet would be more realistic.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh yeah, well you've heard of here's another another area
that's always been strange. You've heard of all about these abductions.
Everybody's talking about they've been a duct What is your
opinion on the abduction stories?

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Y Personally, I I don't believe them.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
But and again that's something strange coming from me, you know,
coming out with a flying saucer story. But uh, I
just I don't see enough evidence, and I, you know,
it's just a gut feeling. I could be completely wrong,
but I just have a hard time with most of them.
And if, in fact, you know, they did occur there,

(24:46):
you know, there might be one or two, uh that
may have actually occurred, you know, with reference to Betty
and Barney Hill, who were a couple in the sixties
who claimed the first abduction. You know, there is some interesting,
you know, evidence there, but I don't know for sure.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
And my gut feeling is that, uh that I that
I just don't buy it.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay, And as you said earlier, they may be just
looking at us like we're some big Disney World or
something interesting to right to observe. And and and you
you said, d how how long do you think they've
been washing it? I hear you say earlier. You think
of over a thousand years or more than that?

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Oh, more than that.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I mean, there's very interesting old paintings from the Renaissance
period that have pictures of flying saucers drawn in the
background in the sky, you know, w you know, obviously
not a smudge, but obviously an elliptical shaped craft and uh,
you know, a glow around it. I mean said, some
of these are are fascinating. So whether or not that

(25:47):
proves anything, I mean, there's certainly mention of them in
some older texts too. So I have you know, from
the evidence that I've seen it, it appears that they've
been coming here for thousands of years.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
You've never actually seen one of these beings?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
No, I haven't.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Do you know at this at these Have you ever
heard of any underground facilities where they might be some
of these beings?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, I've I've heard a lot of stories, and in
fact S four is built into a mountain. The only
thing and the reason for that is to disguise it
from satellite photographs. It doesn't go down unless there are
parts of the facility that I wasn't permitted to go into.
But you know, I haven't seen any of these deep

(26:33):
underground facilities where there's aliens working side by side with
humans working on secret projects.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
I don't know if I believe those and uh and
and in fact, just because I I, you know, have
a negative opinion about it doesn't mean it's it doesn't exist.
But I just have a hard time believing that.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Have you have you heard of any of these ships
being in any other countries? Does anybody? Are we? The
only one is the United States, the only one that
has has any of these craft.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I've heard stories. I don't really keep abreast of
all the UFO information. But the one that caught my
attention was there were sightings in Sweden, I believe, in
the seventies and early eighties of a farmer out there
called Billy Meyer. And the reason that caught my attention
is the craft looks exactly like the one that I

(27:27):
was working on. He has some fantastic photographs of it.
Now people claim that the photographs are phony and so
on and so forth. However, they look fairly decent, and
on top of that, it looks exactly like the craft
that I worked on. So if it was a phony picture,
the chances of him building a model that looked exactly
like the actual craft are remote. So it is possible

(27:50):
that that craft was there, or we may have been
testing it ourselves and taken it that far, though I
doubt that, But that has caught my attention.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
The government given you any problem about it running out
and discussing this.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Initially there was a big problem with that, and there
were threats and so on and so forth. But you know,
over time, once it started airing on TV. In fact,
for the first day they broke into the news here
in Las Vegas and aired it, it was pretty much a
hands off approach after that, Bob.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Obviously this was all top secret information when you were
working on this project, and then the news started to
break the information to the general public. Did did you
have any problem with the government when this happened.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, initially, before the hit the news, there was a
there was a big problem. There were lots of threats
and things of that sort. They even hassled a lot
of my friends. I had a friend working at you know,
another facility on the test site, working with the stealth fighters,
and they pulled him out of work and interrogated him.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
And you know this they pretty much covered all bases.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
But after it went on the news, they broke into
the news one night in Las veg Vegas that it
was a hands off approach after that because really doing
anything with really verify what I said was true.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
And you know, it's pretty much been that way ever since.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
And have they done anything like insert disinformation into discredit
you in any way so people say, well, this is
just Bob Bazar, He's the koke out there in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Oh, absolutely, I mean the disinformation is is so fantastic.
It's absolutely entertaining to the point now, I mean, I've
heard stories that I was a murderer, that I was
selling women in South America. I mean, any bizarre story
you can think of has been attributed to me, anything
to discredit what I've said. And some of them are

(29:43):
tremendously funny, and some of them have some basis in fact,
and they've just distorted it and changed it around, and
you know, it's really unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
And for the most place you get.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Most of the stuff's on the internet because there's no
ramifications of anybody ever saying anything on the internet.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
I can, you know, put up a.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Web page it says Don Garlet's as a child molester,
and you can't do a thing about it. So it's uh,
you know, it's it's open season.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know, drag racing is real expensive, especially top fuel race,
and you know it's up to ten thousand dollars a run. Now, no,
I did, But what what kind of budget do you
think the military would would have on a project like this?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, a budget would probably be uh phenomenal. And you
know where the money comes from is another good question.
It was probably originally funneled through some of the Star
Wars budget, but it's obviously it's labeled as a black project,
which means it doesn't have any real accounting to it.
It just absorbs money from other places, you know, without

(30:47):
any paper trail. But I imagine the budget is fairly substantial.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Okay, where did they fight the craft? Do you know
where this craft came from? Did they ever reveal to
you where they.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Found No, I don't know if it was found given
or dug up in a hole somewhere. The only information
that I had was just the little blurb that they
gave us that the craft had originated in the Zata
two reticularly star system, and you know, that's all I know.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
But it wasn't damage anyway, So it wasn't obviously wasn't crashed.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
No, I don't believe that it crashed. It was it
was in perfect operating condition.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Did they Did the people who you worked for feel
like that we had the capabilities of catching up with
this technology?

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Absolutely they And that was part of the intent, was
to you know, move our technology up to the stage
and duplicate it. And that's what the big push was,
was not just to duplicate it, but to duplicate it
with materials that we had and we're familiar with. And
you know, I only knew what happened up to nineteen
eighty nine. You know, it's coming up on ten years now.

(31:55):
Wherever the project is operating, we know it's not up
near Area fifty one anymore, but they may have already
come pretty far.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
We know they didn't stop on the work, don't we.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
You got that right.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
What about the Roswell instant? Are you familiar with that?

Speaker 2 (32:11):
I've heard a lot about that, like everyone has watched
some specials on television here and there. I don't have
any inside information on it, but you know, it certainly
seems like something occurred there.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well over three hundred people have come forward it claim
they saw the craft, or saw the craft side, or
saw being so in are today's court of law, three
people say they saw you kill somebody, You could go
to the gayess chamber.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh right, I believe in court it's an absolute win.
I defy anyone to disprove it in court. But you
know we don't have that opportunity.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Let's talk Canny. Describe exactly how this anti gravity, this
gravity machine to see all the size of the basketball
functions or works. Let's get into that, Bob, for the
the psyke of our viewers out there that are technologically inclined,

(33:07):
can you give us a kind of a brief overview
of how that little small basketball reactor, how it could
generate power and cause a gravitational field to form.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I'll give a brief overview of it.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
It It can get fairly technical, but basically what it
is is a reactor and an accelerator.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
The base plate of the.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Device is something similar to a cyclotron, where particles are
sped up in a magnetic field and accelerated to a
high speed. The fuel is an element that we don't
have here on Earth, known as element one point fifteen,
is something we also can't thin synthesize in an accelerator.

(33:52):
There are heavier elements that we do synthesize, like plutonium
and things along those lines, and generally they have a
half life, which means they disintegrate very rapidly, and the
higher you go up on the periodic chart, the faster
these things disintegrate. However, we have always theorized that there's
in a little island somewhere around element one hundred and
fourteen hundred and fifteen that elements will become once again

(34:15):
stable like other elements are, like zinc and iron and
you know, things that we're more familiar with.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Well, apparently this is the case.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Whether this element occurs naturally somewhere else in the Solar system,
somewhere else in the galaxy, or it's synthesized is against speculation. However,
this is the fuel that's used when this is bombarded
with an accelerated proton from the pseudo cyclotron. On the
bottom of the device. It transmutes itself. It produces element

(34:48):
one sixteen, which releases a form of radiation that we
really haven't seen in any matter radiation. And though any
matter sounds something like out of something at a star trek,
it's something that we do produce and small quantities and accelerators.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
It's a particle with a charge.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
And a spin that's opposite of normal matter. The reason
any matter is so interesting to us and has been
so interesting in science fiction, is that when any matter
reacts with matter, When any matter contacts matter, it releases
one hundred percent It's almost a total conversion of that
matter to energy with virtually nothing left. Now, in all

(35:26):
other fusion efficient reactions, you typically see an efficiency of
about anywhere from eight tens of one percent to about
eight percent. Here's a and you know how much energy
those reactions release. This is one hundred percent efficient reaction.
So what happens is this particle is accelerated, it interacts
with the element, it produces this any matter radiation. It's

(35:48):
just really anti hydrogen is what it's producing. And this
has reacted with a gaseous matter target. When they react,
they produce small explosion a tremendous amount of heat. How
that heat is converted into electricity is a thermionic generator,
which is something along the lines of a thermal couple.
It's something that when it gets hot, as long as

(36:09):
you put heat energy into it, it produces electrical energy out. However,
the devices we power spacecraft with them we use. In fact,
that probe that just went to Saturn, the Cassini probe
had seventy some odd pounds of plutonium in it, and
it used a thermionic generator, but ours aren't quite that efficient.
This is again virtually one hundred percent efficient. That the

(36:30):
reactor itself doesn't even get hot when it's operating. That's
just how the reactor produces a large amount of electrical energy.
It also produces because of the element one point fifteen,
which happens to have a unique property that this gravitational
field extends beyond the perimeter of the atom. And again
we can get into a lot of particle physics and

(36:52):
that there are some forces that are mislabeled, but this
field that the element produced is amplified, very similar to
a microwave. In fact, microwaves are transmitted through wave guides
which are like pipes, and that's very similar to how
this is amplified and also transmitted essentially through pipes through

(37:13):
wave guides throughout the craft and focused amplified and.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Used for propulsion.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Sounds interesting, Yeah, it's it gets pretty hairy, but it
is a fascinating technology.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
This has gotta be, Bob, the biggest story in the
history of mankind. Why has the main strained press stayed
off of it completely? And you know how they love
big stories.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Well, they do, but it's it.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
It's a dangerous story. It's like reporting on Bigfoot because
there's not a lot of evidence. Once you leave a
project like that, they don't You don't leave with drawings
and descriptions. For the most part, they virtually erase your background.
And I know that sounds like mission impossible. But even
the places that I worked, the place is that I
was educated, deny that I was ever there. I mean,

(38:04):
it's it's a it's a far reaching thing, and without
without proof, nobody wants to look like they have egg
on their face. So you don't get mainstream anything to
cover this until there's more evidence. There's more proof, and
even if you got two or three scientists to come forward,
that's still not enough. People want hardcore facts. They want
things they can photograph, things they can touch, and things
they can get verified. And because of the secrecy involved,

(38:26):
even if that was about to happen, it would you know,
they it would be squashed by the government under the
guys in national security. No you can't air that special,
No you can't do this, you know, so on and
so forth. So I don't think it's gonna come out
until they decide that they want it out.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Can the American people handle the truth?

Speaker 3 (38:45):
I think so. The American people can handle a lot.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
It may not be what they want to hear, it
may interfere with a lot of their current beliefs, but
we adjust to everything, we really do.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I think they're really underrating us.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
That probably goes for the rest of the world too.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Absolutely, the room next door he has, he looks like
a chemical laboratory or something.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
Oh yeah, that's a lab.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Okay, everyone asking about what's in the room next door.
It looks like a lab with the You know, there's
been millions of sightings. My wife and I've seen a
couple of things our sales that were absolutely unexplainable. Why
do you think with all that sightings, there's just so
few actual photographs and most of them are blurry. Has
that got something to do perhaps with the way the

(39:28):
craft operates, or is it just the fact that when
people see it, they don't see it that long there
wasn at camera equipment available. What's your opinion on.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
That, Well, there's two points you made. First of all,
is having anything any equipment available. Usually a sighting is
exactly what you say, a sighting. It's an event that happens,
it's over. How many photographs do you have of car accidents?
How many photographs have you seen of car accidents other
than at the dragstrip, because we know something's gonna happen,
but just out on the.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Road you never have one.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
No, that's true.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
It's because it's the event happens and it's over now.
The only reason you know about the news crew gets
there because it stays there after it happened. But the
actual accident there are no photographs of because it's a
fleeting event, and any fleeting event that's something that you
don't see. And a lot of people harp on that saying,
well there's no photographs of I'm flying, Well, it happened
for two seconds.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
What do you want from us?

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Even if you've got a camcorder in your hand, who
says you're going to be you know, looking at the
thing on top of that, Because these crafts operate using
a gravitational engine.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
The gravity wave.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Gravity itself distorts light and space and time and all
that stuff sounds again like science fiction, and you know,
something that's difficult to believe, but we know. We know
that gravity bends light, bends space, and bends time. And
because of that factor, there are for instance, on the
craft that I worked under, I was told that under

(40:48):
certain from certain vantage points underneath the craft, you can't
see the craft. You can only see the sky above
it because the light is bent around the craft. So
there certainly could be situation where you could see something
and someone twenty or thirty feet away from you could
be looking at a clear blue sky and not see it.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
It's it's just the way things happen.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well broadcasting this year interview, Get your eye in any trouble?

Speaker 3 (41:15):
What was that I missing?

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Well broadcasting this interview, Get your eye in any trouble?

Speaker 3 (41:19):
I don't think.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So it's been about you know, like I said, almost
ten years and you know This has been on the
news and gone over a bunch of times, and I
think it's pretty much stand where it is. I don't
see any problems.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
So nobody's gonna be calling up ESPN say you don't
run that piece.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Well, if they do, it wouldn't really surprise me.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Okay, a next door, Well, what's in the room next
door here?

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Oh, that's that's my lab in here. I do a
lot of independent research or consultation anything science related, physics related,
along with computer modeling, anything along those lines.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
You told me were just you were designing or had
did the computer work on a rocket car that's going
to go nine hundred miles an hour.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well, I have a friend.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
His name is Waldo Steaks, and him and a rocket engineer,
Ken Mason, built this car, and I believe this winter
they're going to start running it. It's called Sonic Wind
and it's slated to go over nine hundred miles on ice.
I believe the ice speed records only in two hundred
some odd miles an hour. So I ran a couple
of simulations on my computer and just to see how

(42:31):
the thing would perform. But it should be very interesting
to see that it's a liquid oxygen, a.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Locks alcohol powered rocket.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
In fact, the rockets a booster off an Atlas rocket,
one of those old rockets from the fifties. But it's
quite a machine.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
I'd like to get you to look at my swamper
at thirty two and four and see how it looks.
Are dynamic in here, because you've got a lot of experience.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
In are dynamics, yeah, to some extent, and.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
See if I was on the right track, and maybe
give me a little some tips there.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Well, it couldn't hurt to run it through the computer.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Think we'll do that. Well, Bob, it's uh, it's been
great talking with you, and we thanks a million, I
know for myself and all my fans, we really thank
you for doing this interview. It's certainly bitterly enlightening.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Well, it's my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, on that, tell what you tell us a bit
about in the briefing room you because you had that
on your tape. Tell us a little bit what happened
and when you went into this room. Tell us about
the briefing room and some of the things that happened.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
There wasn't a whole lot.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
It was a small room. It was.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
I was essentially left with a bunch of briefings one
hundred and twenty some odd I no longer can even
remember how many. Uh, And basically they just contained a
small overview of each satellite project that was going on.
So we all knew the existence of each other, we
just didn't, you know, specifically what they were doing. For instance,
there was a group that was dealing with the metallurgy

(43:57):
of the craft, there was a group dealing with uh,
you know, I mean.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Virtually every aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
So again it gave us just an overview of what
was going on and the name of some of the projects.
As I'm sure they had specific information dealing with their project,
and just had a small overview of what our group
was working on. So that's basically all it was, was
just reading through a lot of that and along with
some of the other information that was apparently collected from

(44:26):
the craft or you know, information that they had learned
in the past, tell.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Us about any bodies of alien beings. Well, there apparently
were some somewhere.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
There were there were some autopsy pictures of a being.
You know, I don't know if that had to do
if this was something that was just in the history
of the project or it was, or if it was
something that was there or what was something that had
to relate, you know, to this craft. But of the
two photographs that I saw, there were only two.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
There.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
It was a small being just showing the chest and
the chest was cut in a tea fashion with the
skin pulled back, and it was the the thing. It
had just one central organ, as if that looked if
you ever seen a liver in the supermarket, just kind
of a brown, almost liquid looking thing. But it had
just one central organ. And then the next photographs had

(45:20):
the organ vivisection, and it seemed like all the UH
organs you normally had had just grown together. There was
a che section of it that apparently pumped blood, another
section of it that processed air, and it just seemed,
you know, to be one single organ as opposed to
little separate units here and there.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
But it was UH.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
And again there was no information with it. We were
just given the information knowing of the existence, just in
case any information might help us in determining.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
You know, what our particular project did.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
For instance, we were working in the power and propulsion system.
There was no reason for us to have a tour
of the inside of the craft. However, maybe the placement
of the reactor was important to its operations, so we
did have to see where it was. We did have
to see, uh, you know, s some satellite things around
what was going on, Kay,
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