Ime Udoka stays the course with Rockets, Jalen Green

After hinting at a potential change to Houston’s starting lineup, head coach Ime Udoka announced at Wednesday’s practice that the Rockets will stay the course for the time being.

What does that say about the future of Jalen Green, who has been Houston’s most inconsistent starter? Thursday’s show explores that angle and more, including what the return of Fred VanVleet and Cam Whitmore can do as Houston enters a tough scheduling stretch out of the All-Star break.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome toThe Logger Line, an exclusive podcast from
the home of the Rockets, SportsTalk seven ninety. The Logger Line.
It's proudly served to you by CarBox Clutch City Lagger. It is God
Oh Red Nation. Get Ready,Ready, Get Ready. The lagger Line

(00:29):
starts now. Welcome aboard. Thanksfor tuning in to another new episode of
the logger Line, as always servedto you courtesy of Clutch City Lagger of
Carback Brewing. I'm Ben Dubos,your host, editor of USA Today's Rocket

(00:49):
Squire and contributor to Sports Talk sevenninety, the official Flagshare radio station of
your Houston Rockets. I'm joined bymy good friend, co host and producer
out of Portugal, Palo Olves,who you can follow on Twitter at Palo
Alves NBA me. I'm at BenDubo's so as we chat this Thursday,
February twenty second. The Rockets areback in action tonight in New Orleans after

(01:10):
a much needed week off for theAll Star break. The Rockets are much
healthier. They've got Fred Vansleet CamWhitmore both set to return. Tarry Easton
is not but I think we've knownfor some time that that injury is more
longer term, and if the Rocketsare going to make something of this season,
it pretty much has to start now. They're currently twenty four and thirty
twelve in the Western Conference, threeand a half games back at Golden State

(01:32):
for the ten spot, which willeventually be the final birth in the Western
Conference play in tournament, and thesenext six games are absolutely brutal. Four
are on the road, where theRockets they're just five and twenty one this
year, and all six are againstteams who are currently in the top six
of the West standings. You've gotthree against Kevin Durant and Devin Booker's Phoenix
Suns. You've got two against MVPcandidate shaygild Just Alexander and the Thunder,

(01:56):
and then the one tonight on theroad versus Brandon Ingram Zion Williamson and the
rest of the Pelicans. So asI see it, it's put up or
shut up time. The schedule doesease up a little bit in March,
but if you fall even further belowfive hundred again, you're already six below
as things stand, and then youdrop five or more games behind the number
ten spot. At that point,it's probably too little too late to actually

(02:17):
make a serious run. And yet, other than putting Fred back in the
lineup now, in fairness that willhelp, the Rockets are one and six
without him this year, and Iguess you're also going to add Cam whitmore
to your bench rotation. But otherthan that, there aren't going to be
any major changes, at least notimmediately after that loss in Memphis. Just
prior to the All Star break,imy Udoka said he was considering changing the

(02:38):
starting lineup, which we discussed onlast week's pod. The obvious candidate was
Jalen Green, who did not playat all in the final eighteen minutes against
the Grizzlies, and he's been benchedin the fourth quarter quite a few times
this season, and yet, atleast for now, he may and the
Rockets decided to stay the course.As far as the rationale, we discussed
the pros and cons in last week'spod, so we don't need to go

(03:00):
into the same length we did then. For those wanting moords out, you
can just check out our archives.The reason I ultimately came to the conclusion
that they probably wouldn't make the move, and I have a suspicion this was
at least part of the calculus forEmay. The Jews just wasn't worth the
squeeze in this case. For starters. It's not a playoffs or bus season.

(03:22):
We've covered that plenty. It's nottruly when now in phase two of
the rebuild, as the Rockets haverepeatedly called it, you're still balancing short
term factors with longer term considerations,and in this case, there's really a
lot of long term risk for whatI don't think would offer a ton of
short term gain, because it's notlike we know one hundred percent that a

(03:43):
men Thompson er camp whitmore, andI think a man would be more likely
would be better than Jalen Green ifyou inserted them into the starting lineup.
Their samples are still so small.Jalen has had some really encouraging weeks himself.
If we're talking about small samples,it's just the overall sample with Jalen
is big enough that we've seen plentyof low lights and inconsistency as well.
The same might happen with the Menand Cam as they get exposed more to

(04:04):
NBA defenses and teams start to adjustmore against them. But beyond that,
what I kept coming back to isthis, what exactly is the upside?
Those guys are still in the rookiedeals, so you've got so much time,
and Emay has already shown a willingnessto include those guys at the expense
of Jalen and the closing lineups.So really all we're talking about is the

(04:25):
first six minutes or so of thefirst and third quarters. Is sneaking a
few more minutes for a Men withFred and getting whatever data or superior chemistry
comes from that. Is that reallythat important in the grand scheme? Again,
he's under club control for three moreyears. You don't have to rush
this. You can still get alot of those same benefits if you go

(04:46):
back to that a few weeks fromnow or a few months from now.
Now. As I said last week, if it were a video game,
yeah, I'd probably make the change. Gun to my head, I do
think a Men and Cam have morelong term upside than Jalen at this point.
And it's fair to acknowledge the Rocketshave consistently had a problem with how
they start games. In a perfectworld, sure you try something else out

(05:08):
and then if it doesn't fix it. You can just go back to Jalen
later, But in real life you'vegot to consider the human factors, and
I think that's what's getting lost here. You absolutely would run the risk of
mentally losing Jalen Green if he's theonly guy you bench, and you do
it all for an unproven rookie,and that side of it, at least
on my social media timeline, isbeing way oversimplified for the sake of a

(05:30):
cleaner narrative. I had someone inmy mentions today saying, oh, so
Jalen's going to throw a tantrum,That just proves he's a head case and
not the guy. Sorry, asI see it, that's naive, it's
overly dramatic, and above all else, it's overly simplistic. He might not
throw a tantrum, he might notdemand a trade, but you do run
a real risk of undermining his trustin the organization. This is a guy

(05:50):
who was the number two overall pickless than three years ago, a centerpiece
of your rebuild, and over thispast year you've asked him to undergo so
many changes, new head coach,new system, new role, and it's
all he isn't trying. He ismaking better reads he is defending at a
higher level. E May and veteranplayers like Fred They've consistently said that all

(06:11):
year. It's just the jump shotin the efficiency is not where it needs
to be. It's as simple asthat, and maybe it never is.
But what do you really get frompulling the plug early? Again? I
don't think the potential upside of thealternative is all that high. But to
get back to the point, whichas I see it as Jalen's state of
mind, anyone who thinks that moststarting players in the NBA wouldn't have a

(06:34):
problem with being benched for an unprovenrookie under these circumstances is being extremely naive.
Now, maybe if the Rockets ishypothetically traded for a Michale Bridges at
Jalen's spot, as had been rumored, but not for an unproven rookie,
you're just living in a utopia ifyou think most players would just say eh,
I should have played better. Icompletely trust the coaching staff. I

(06:54):
believe in every decision they make,and well, if they think somebody else
is better, they must be rightand not just gotta take it on the
chin. I'm going to try harderoff the bench. That's just not the
modern NBA. I'm sorry, andreally I don't think it's modern sports.
It's the player empowerment era. Almostevery player thinks he could be better if
he was used in a different way. That's a huge factor in why there's
so much player and coach movement aroundthe league. And yes, some do

(07:15):
take it to extremes, like theend from his KPJ incident where he threw
soup in Cleveland, or when ChristianWood refused to check into a game when
Steven Silas infamously benched him a coupleyears ago. I don't necessarily think that
Jalen would go to those extremes,but in a season that's all about building
the right habits and shaking those losinghabits. He may has said that time
after time, the state of mindfor a player like Jalen, it's not

(07:40):
an insignificant variable. Even if Jalenis professional enough to accept a demotion without
going nuclear, there's still so manyquestions when it comes to his attitude,
his work ethic, whether he's boughtinto that role, and it's the job
of organizational leaders to consider those typesof factors. Now, I will say
that if you're already fully convinced thatJalen just is not going to work out

(08:01):
and that he won't cut it asa starting level player on a contender a
few years from now, than sure, in that scenario, you may as
well make the change now because there'sjust not enough upside to staying the course.
But I don't think the Rockets viewthis as an all or nothing thing,
and I don't either. You don'thave to choose between either I fully
believe in Jalen he's the starting twoguard on a contender a few years from

(08:24):
now, or I'm all the wayout. This guy's a bust. It's
time to move on. There's plentyof middle ground scenarios where you can have
valid concerns, but you can stillsee the talent of a guy who just
turned twenty two years old, stillnot even through his third NBA season.
You see stretches of super encouraging playlike that untradable tour as we called it,
not even a month ago, andyou want to play this out just

(08:46):
a little while longer to get moreinformation to me. If you believe in
Jalen's potential even a little bit,then the upside of keeping him in the
best frame of mind to keep growing, to keep pushing forward all that stuff.
There's just more upside to that pathand seeing what happens than there is
to sneaking a few more minutes earlyin the first and third quarters for Amn
Thompson or Cam Whitmore all in theyear. That isn't really about winning now

(09:09):
in the first place. And againit's not even that we one hundred percent
no, A men would be better. Finally, last thing I want to
say in this little rant on thesubject of fans mistakenly viewing things as all
or nothing. I also want topush back on the fallacy of this path
not having accountability. Seriously, Jalenhas been benched in the fourth quarter several
times this year, and in manycases, including the most recent game,

(09:33):
he was the only starter it happenedto He knows this whole storyline over the
past week, with e May airingpublicly that he was considering a change,
everyone in that locker room knows whoit would have been. As we discussed
last week, there was only onerealistic option. That in and of itself
is quite a statement to make publicly. It's not as simple as saying either
you bench him altogether for an unprovenrookie, or there's no accountability and you're

(09:56):
just catering to a head case.There are plenty of intermediate steps, and
in my opinion, this is theRockets looking at maybe doing one or two
more intermediate steps before taking the moredrastic one. Now, I'm not going
to tell you that for sure they'reright. If you're all the way out
on Jalen, I understand why you'dwant to pull the plug now or Polo.
You could make the argument, likeyou did on last week'spod, that

(10:16):
maybe benching Jalen is a hail maryon the small chance that it works as
shock therapy, it's worth trying.But then, as we talked about after
you made that argument, even thatplan requires an implicit admission that we're at
a point now where the status quojust is not going to work, and
so it's worth risking the entire thingblowing up. I just don't think the
Rockets are quite there, at leastnot yet, and I just don't see

(10:39):
the harm in waiting a few moreweeks. Again, we're not even two
months until the end of the seasonto make such a serious sweeping judgment.
So for me, it's a defensiblecall, and it's one I largely expected,
even if the basketball fan in mewas sort of hoping for a men
to start just to see what itwould look like. Not telling you it's
clearly the right move, just thatI understand it, and I see where
they're coming from, and I canrespect it. I also think you could

(11:03):
take a step back and you comparethis situation to another team, any non
contender who let's say they have arecent number two overall pick putting up the
numbers that Jalen currently is, andthe alternatives for his starting slot are rookies
like a men and him that havea very small sample. I don't think
we'd say, Wow, this teamhas got to make a move immediately or

(11:24):
they're incompetent. Now. What Ithink we'd say, if we were looking
at it impartially is okay, thetrend lines are concerning, but it's probably
still a little bit early. Theymay need to do this change down the
road, but we wouldn't bat aneye if they don't do it now.
The reason we're acting like something that'sgot to give right now is because we're
diehard Houston Rockets fans. We aretired of seeing this team lose. We

(11:48):
want something to change, and sothe emotional side of us knows that this
is the easiest thing you could conceivablytweak in your starting lineup, and a
lot of people just want to seethat for the sake of making a change
and hoping it sparks improve play.The Rockets organizationally can't just be about the
emotional side. They've also got tothink strategically. They've got to think practically.

(12:09):
And that's where I think when youbalance not just the short term considerations
but the longer term the development,I understand why they're not doing it right
now, even if on some levelit might have felt good to make the
move coming off the All Star break. Hello, those are my, I
guess, long winded thoughts about today'sannouncement. Where do you come in on

(12:30):
all of this? Yeah, Iguess I'll approach it from from a different
angle. We obviously went through alot of the angles of this in the
last part, just went on witha few different ones. I guess I'll
approach it from the what about therest of the team, right because we've
talked about lan Okay, we've talkedabout you know, a lot of stuff.

(12:52):
What would the impact be on therest of the team. And I
think that there's an argument to bemade just to both play Devil's outcut and
you know pre deevil ed cut tothe devil edcut. I guess I'll call
it, you know, I'll callit Heaven's Head or whatever the fuck it
is. So there's the scenarios,right, There's Steven doesn't take it well,
uh and he starts off us andhe comes on publicly and he's patching

(13:18):
the org or spreading you know,because if players are not taking it the
right way and they're going to dosomething like that anyways, cancers are someone,
they're going to leak stuff that's that'snot favorable to someone that's and it's
eventually going to come out in themedia. Same thing with Russell Westbrook when
he when he asked out, orJames Harden when he asked out. You

(13:39):
know, even even players are youknow that even like the organization are wants
it, they'll just air out somedirty laundry. So if things go wrong
with jail and you can expect somethings to come out on the media and
him too. And if he isas best stuff as it looks as it
would look like it's likely that thatdid some disturbance from the How would the

(14:00):
rest of the team react to it? Right? How would that how would
you know, becoming a public kindof you know, the part of the
club publicly like they've been the pastfew years. How that impacted team?
How that impact may it made obecause profile moving forward? How that impact
the way you know, the team'sviewed publicly. I think there's an argument

(14:24):
to be to be made that itwill also impact the team negatively and things
that would translate on the court viathe public view. If if Kilen,
you know, was god sour aboutthe impact with you know, it seems
like a pretty reasonable outcome that thatthings could go that way if he did

(14:46):
get batter So there's that downside.Once again, I'm trying, like trying
to approtest from a different angle fromwhat everybody else is saying. I do.
I've made my peace with it,I've said my my my thoughts on
it. The last part, I'mjust trying to add a couple of players
on this not and this might beperceived as me kind of reaching, but

(15:07):
it's exactly what it is. I'mtrying to look at different negles. The
other side of it is, ifKivin gets spent, it could be perceived
as from if Kiln doesn't get bent, actually sorry, it could be perceived
by the team as hey, thesky is unbenteable, right, There's nothing
I can do no matter how wellI play, I'm never going to get

(15:28):
his spot as long as he's here, at least for the season, because
he basically can't play any worse thanhe already did. In the end,
the team could not be in theworst spot in it currently is, and
I still can't get the spot,and that's also negative. That's also negative.
So as I said, playing devilsthat h didn't then play on the
other side, So penting him couldbe a problem if, if, if

(15:50):
a public feud arises from it.Not bening him could be a problem if
you pass the message down to theteam that no matter what he does,
you're not gonna get bent as longas he you know, is somewhat at
least trying, even though he's notplaying well on the court. So from
those two angles, I guess itwould be up to what do you think

(16:12):
is more likely that would that wouldhave happened. I've made I made my
ex last part that I'm at thepoint where I probably would have burst the
bubble and just seen what happens.But I can also understand where the team
that has had as much trouble withinthe outside view of the team as the
Rockets have had lately. Not onlyare you avoiding any risk of clipt comes

(16:34):
out with stuff that might have happenedacross the last two years. Because players
on they're mad, they do thatyou are also and this is this is
going to be, you know,kind of ruthless. But if the season
goes wrong, I think most peoplewill point to hay Shingun have a big,
big breakout season. You may havegot these guys playing defense. They

(16:57):
still have, you know, sosomewhat decent defense, are defensive rating and
get their fifth top something like that, and you know, came with more
to show, promise, mental,show promise, to reason. While it
was healthy, it was awesome.Jim Marri Smith looks like a b better
player. And the national view froma ten thousand foot two, which is

(17:17):
what the national media is going todo to it seems doesn't make the play
and it will look like it's allkill one's fault. And once they think
Kalen things might be on the right, so you can he can kind of
be used as a scapegoat if youkeep him starting. If you don't and
you bench him and things continue togo poorly, now it's a different it's
a different question what else is wrongwith this? Once again, none of

(17:38):
these you know, arguments are holddamn much weight. Just trying to you
know, view it from a differentplans, so when trying to overcomplicate it,
I can see ways in which itcould have gone in the direction.
But at the end of the day, I think the simplest is just to
is just to not bench a man, Hope that he plays better. Hope

(18:02):
that potentially the reason coming back getsthe team back to you know, more
decent state. Hope that the weekoff got Shinguns Schengun back better from his
back injury, got fresently better fromhis back injury. God, Dylan Brooks,
you know, hopefully fully recovered fromwhat his angle injury was, because

(18:22):
I'm hoping that it was the angleinjury that I was holding back his defense
since he's gone back and so meanwith Dylan, Yeah, sorry, right,
I was, I was, Iwas getting that mixed up. So
just you hope that those things getbetter and you and you keep the status
quad. And I guess the lastyou know, outside chance case that you

(18:47):
can that you can make is itmight be too early to sort of burn
another one of your prospects by slottinghim into a starting lineup. There are
none too early, and that noneof them really fit into perfectly. Right.
Cam's going to struggle defensively at thetwo, if for nothing else,
just from a off ball defense standbut I think I think when he has

(19:11):
you know, the ball handler onhim, he can play defense to decent
level. But he does fall asleepout on rotations, and so the team
could It's not exactly the perfect setupfor either guy a man obviously with the
spacing, I don't even need tomaybe argue one again, they would probably
be better than Jailer, but there'sa sense that they wouldn't and you'd be
and you'd be putting that responsibility onthem perhaps too early, and you don't

(19:33):
really want to. I don't youreally want to do that During the seasons.
Maybe spot starts here and there,but you've got so much time with
those guys you do not need torush it. That was the perspective for
me, there's just not enough Josefor it to be worth the squeeze.
And I'll keep going back to thatanalogy, but it's true. There's just
there's just not enough upside just startingeither of those guys now to be worth

(19:55):
all those other risks that we've beenoutlining. Yeah, so as far as
far as this topic goes, wecan discuss it further. We're not going
to be saying anything new and it'snot going to change and expect until at
least, you know, the lasttwo weeks of the season, in case
we're outside out out of the playand race and we may be just staying
at that point and maybe they start, they start at that point. But

(20:18):
yeah, I think moving forward,knowing that Chilam's going to start, I
think we have other stuff that weneed to talk about as far as as
how team's going to Dubs back,because there are some there were some other
news in the email press conference,right, and you transition to it well
with your focus on the rest ofthe team and what it might mean for
them. Because part of Emay's rashit out and he had an interesting attempt

(20:45):
at framing this season that I hadn'treally considered. So the Rockets are played
fifty four games, they're twenty fourand thirty, and if you split it
in half, that's twenty seven.And that's basically the breaking point of this
season. They played twenty seven gamesbefore Christmas, they were fifteen and twelve,
and their prior game, the lastone before Christmas, that is,

(21:07):
was probably their best of the entireseason. That when at New Orleans where
Shingoon had a career high thirty seven, just went off down the stretch.
Jabari was excellent as well in thatgame, and at fifteen and twelve,
it felt like they were way aheadof expectations. That was the high water
mark. Then the next twenty sevengames started with the Indiana game on the

(21:30):
twenty sixth of December, and that'swhen Dylan strained as a bleak, and
Emay made the point that Dylan overthese next twenty seven games, where obviously
things were off the rails, theywent nine to eighteen. Dylan missed nine
games, Fred missed the last fivewith the adductor, and he also missed
two with a back injury or backto back considerations. And as we've talked
about in the past, I suspectthat's why Fred had a bit of a

(21:52):
down January, and hopefully by restingthe aductor's trade, he also got to
rest his back and heel up,because if you get one hundred percent healthy
Fred van Fleet, hopefully it's theversion you had in November and December,
not the version you had in January, where even when he played, it
felt like he was a bit limitedin terms of what he could give you,
especially on that well, I shouldn'tsay you especially on offense, because
no, it was defense as well. We talked about him being nowhere nearest

(22:14):
dynamic at stop injurb Old penetration,so I guess it was across the board,
which makes sense if you have astiff back, And so hopefully that's
healed up over these past couple ofweeks as well, just sort of using
the All Star break to stack reston top of missing the five games before.
But to go back to Emay's pointabout the team as a whole and
these last twenty seven games where itwent off the rails. You had Dylan
missing nine, Fred missing seven,Jabbari missed four with multiple ankles brains,

(22:40):
and then I think the final thirteengames he shot like twenty eight percent from
three. So I have a sneakingsuspicion that even though he returned, he
wasn't one hundred percent and that mayhave taken a toll on his jump shot.
And so the point that e Maywas making in saying those things was
that it's not just about Jalen Green, that the downturn was about a lot
of different things that happened to thatstarting lineup, and now if you put

(23:03):
all the pieces back together, maybeyou can get something closer to the first
twenty seven games. Now, itis also important to acknowledge that those twenty
seven games that the Rockets went fifteento twelve, then a lot of those
featured Tarry Eason, especially in Decemberwhen he was at his best. And
as of now, the Rockets stilldo not have Tari And at this point,
we've talked about this in the past, I'm looking at anything from Tari

(23:26):
this season as a bonus at thispoint, with how tricky that leg injury
has been, going back to thestress reaction he suffered in the preseason,
it would not shock me if hedid not play again this year. He
may did not roll out that scenarioat today's practice and if that's what needs
to happen for him to be healthylong term, then it's worth it.
You've made that argument in the past, Polo. But the flip side is
at the first twenty seven games whenthe Rockets were fifteen and twelve, had

(23:48):
basically nothing from Amen Thompson or Camwhitmore other than garbage time. They did
not contribute to wins at all.So while you can definitely point to you
and say, hey, this Rosiescenario we were talking about, you're healthy
again at least with your starting lineup, and that's why you give the starting
lineup a little more runway before youmake a drastic change such as benching Jalen.
Well, then you don't have tarias insurance off the bench. Yeah,

(24:11):
that's true, but you also havea Mentoms and they camp went more
both than very good form at themoment, whereas in those first twenty seven
games you didn't have them at all. They just were not ready. And
well maybe a Men was ready,but he was hurt, so same difference.
He just wasn't able to give youanything at that time. So I
guess my question for you, Polo, how much of an impact do you

(24:32):
think getting for now, Bread andCam back hopefully at one hundred percent,
will make is it enough between thosetwo getting back and hopefully Shabari getting healthier
over the break with his ankles towhere you have hope that they can find
what they were in those first twentyseven games rather than the second. And

(24:55):
by the way, it's worth notingthose first twenty seven games for most of
December, Jalen was at his worst, So they were fifteen to twelve even
with about half of that sample beingthe absolute worst possible version of Jalen Green.
Not that he was great in January, well he was for about a
week or two, but overall itwas much better. So I guess that's

(25:17):
a potential upgrade source as well thatmaybe Jalen has grown since that fifteen and
twelve stretch. And so I guessyou know. The one bit of cold
water again that you have to throwon this is the lack of Tarry Easton,
who is a very good player evenin year two. But it sounds
like part of the rationale for eMay is taking a step back and saying,
hey, as bad as these lasttwenty seven games have been, there

(25:37):
were some clear inflection points with injuriesthat might be solved now that you've got
Freend and Cam back, hopefully Jabbariand Dylan are healthier when it comes to
the ankle and the oblique. Howmuch do you buy into Pawlo this idea
that health in and of itself canpotentially give this starting lineup a boost in
a way that obviously they weren't ableto get for much of Shane anyway.

(26:00):
First of all, I like tolike to start off by saying that I
don't think we've been particularly unlucky withour injuries. I think our crediting are
saying like, oh, we've hadso many injuries, and every team has
those injuries, teams that there theyhave way bigger story cap percently just allocated

(26:22):
to certain players, have lost thoseplayers and have managed to study the ship
in between time. So I don'tthink we've been particularly unlucky as far as
your question it could be, ButI honestly think that our easan has such
a massive impact that it probably won'tOkay, can being good enough to offset

(26:44):
that? Not yet? At least, I think I think they each of
them brings like something specific that theydo a lot better, or that we
really need that they do really well, and then with this defense and rebounding
and Camp with the scoring. Butboth of them have holes in their games
that while doesn't have, Yeah,and well, I think that they have.
I think torry right now, andI think an animator expect this sorry

(27:07):
is a massive plus honestly, andthose guys are close to a small plus
because of what they are. Theyare lacking their games, which is naturalized
rookies. And and the other theother factor that that factors in two well,
that was forwarding. But the otherfact that that factor is in is
we don't know how much healthier they'regoing to be compared to what they were

(27:32):
during the you know, the secondquarter of the season where the Rockets can
struggle. I'm not sure how muchbetter Fred than Le's going to look.
How much do exactly? Yeah,So because all of that, I'll just
have my beds and say I don'tthink those would have set. I will
reiterate to my point that even ifthey don't, I'm not rushing Torism back

(27:56):
under any circumstances. If there's anychance of a long of him having long
term health issues because of this,I'm not taking that chance. And listen,
the comp for him which is notreally a comp but it's more like
a dream. But there's some similarities. There is Kawhi Leonard, who is
an awesome player that we've seen everysince he was twenty eight, has struggled

(28:18):
with the lingering, you know,knee issues for him, but the leg
like lower leg or leg issues thathave really taken away from could have been
an even more legendary career. Andhe's not done yet. But we know
how much better Kawai could have beenif you were sealthy all the time.
And I just don't wonder run thererisk with a player as important as story.

(28:40):
So just reiterating that, I guessI'll close my answer with that and
I'll ask you back a question.Do you think Tarry Easen is so tourism
has been the only like really longterm injury that this team has had.
This is right, he's been outfor a very extended period of time.
Do you think he's the worst playerit could have happened to for the Rockets?

(29:04):
You think is there anybody else onthe team that you wouldn't rather have
had those injurases or have missed thatmany games instead of starting I know that
there's a lot of negatives compounded ontothat sentus, But I think, ago
what I meant. Yeah, No, there's there's one that's more, and
it's Shin Gooon simply because there iszero replacement for what he does and the

(29:30):
burden he carries on offense. Iknow the defense has slipped, but when
your alternatives are Jeff Green and JockLandale just in terms of filling the minutes
at center, and then when youlook at how much this team has struggled
to generate offense all season long,I don't know how you get through the
fifty four games they've gotten through withoutthe workload that Shin Gooon has taken on

(29:51):
from a playmaking and a creation perspective, not just for himself but for his
teammates. I just shudder to thinkat what the percentages might look like.
If you know, say what youwill. Dylan Brooks, but he is
shooting better than forty percent or closeto forty percent. I think on three
he did have the bad game inMemphis that might have put him just below
forty, but it's the best shootingseason of his career. A lot of
those are because he's getting really cleanlooks off either passes from Shangoon or the

(30:14):
attention that Shangoon draws. So Iwould say, simply because of the way
this team is constructed in their offensivelimitation, I think I would rather be
without Tari than Shangoon, But it'sclose and after Shangoon, I don't know.
I mean, I guess you canargue Fred as well. They are
one and six without him. Butthe fact that we're talking about a guy
who got a max contract last offseason and Tari even being in the same

(30:37):
discussion as far as how impactful theabsence is, that says a lot in
and of itself. I think definitelyShangoon, maybe Fred, although with the
men playing better and Aaron Hollidays hada better year than expected, you know,
you could at least make an argumentthat Fred's a little easier to replace,
although the wins and losses certainly don'tshow that. But yeah, I
would say Tar is either two orthree, and for a guy in year

(31:03):
two like that's a pretty amazing statementin itself, a guy who was drafted
number seventeen overall in the twenty twentytwo draft. So it is that a
fair answer? Yeah, I wouldagree. I actually want to ask the
question, I can probably forgot aboutShinghu, but I do agree with you
would have been a bigger loss.And I think you hit it. You
hit on the head with your withyour last sent How much how telling is

(31:26):
that or how much of a howmuch of a compliment is that that Tarry
Yeason as a role player, whichis what he is at this point,
he could become out of the future. His impact is so big that that
he's close to what Kan. Hegoes as much of a puggetive as the
best player on your team, whichis out branching Gun. I would say

(31:47):
I would still I would put himabove Fred. I think Fred is important,
really important, but I think aman not early on probably, but
Tarry also played a little bit ofthe of the early season. I think
they could have they could have realisticallywent after someone or Iron Holly, they
could have played there. They couldhave, you know, I think made

(32:08):
up for that difference a little bitbetter than what they can with Tari.
It's because that is so unique thatthere's no there's no other player in the
league that that is as much ofa plus. Because of the things that
that Tari has that is a greaton ball defender, there's great on ball
defenders in the league. To isalso an insane rebounder, and he can

(32:28):
knock down threes, and he hasa little bit of a handle, and
you know, he's you know,becompetter at finishing. I do, I
really truly do not think other thanStars, that there's anybody in the league
right now that has the same skillsthat Tory has, especially because of how
active he is. Like usually ifyou're going to usually no doctor turned this
into into a Tary's you know rant. But usually if you're really good on

(32:52):
ball defender, you're not a goodoff all defenders as a wing or or
you play very good story of butwe don't get a lot of steals and
turnovers even turnovers when when you do, usually are not an insane rebounder to
compound on top of that, orif you're if you are all of these
things, usually usually can't shoot oryou know, it's just such a null

(33:16):
around game for Tari that it's justinsane the level of the impact that you
can have. And that's why tome, it's it's just so important that
they don't burn anything from this futureto invest in this season. Yeah,
and to your point on Tari's versatility, basically had jack of all trades.

(33:37):
We let off the pod talking aboutkeeping Jalen in the starting lineup. A
big part of why the Rockets wereable to sustain themselves during that December burst,
even with Jalen playing relatively poorly,was because Tari had surprisingly the handle
and the fluidity on the perimeter toplay in place of Jalen in a number
of those games when the Rockets neededto sort of hang on down the stretch.

(34:00):
For various reasons he may felt likehe couldn't trust Jalen, Tari became
a Jalen insurance policy. I don'tthink going into the year we would have
really expected that, because you thinkof Tari as a front court piece,
and you look at him even asa or even a small ball five at
times because of a week side shotblocking ability and his instincts and his motor.
But he's also taking clear strides asa playmaker and with his handle in

(34:22):
played as effectively a two at timesin certain lineups. And so based on
that versatility and the ability to usehim in so many different constructs, then
yeah, that loss is especially brutalfor this team. And so because of
that, even though a men andCam have played well, especially by rookie
standards. I think I generally agreewith you that even having a men in
CAM, it is not offset nothaving Tari. So as long as Tari

(34:45):
isn't out there, even if youdo have a men and Cam, you're
probably still swimming upstream. When itcomes to trying to recapture the prior form.
There's just so many variables, andyou know, there's also a question
of whether the week off or eightdays off whatever it's been, is truly
enough or if it's going to takelonger than that for soft tissue injuries like
Fred in his back, and Dylanand the oblique and Jabari and his ankles

(35:08):
to fully heal. By the way, I think that's another factor in not
wanting to bench Shaleen unless they absolutelycan't avoid it, is that there are
a lot of other reasons why theRockets are losing games. It's just in
terms of changing the starting lineup,Shalen is the easiest to change politically,

(35:30):
and because there's a clear drop inreplacement that's still a part of your longer
term future. Yet, when itcomes to his buy in and those intangible
factors that we referenced earlier. It'stougher to get that buy in if it
looks like he's the only one beingheld accountable, that he's being scapegoaded,
even though we all know that thereasons this team has underperformed or regressed or

(35:51):
whatever you want to call it arefar more than just Jalen and so I
think that's why e May and theRockets are a little sensitive to making it
look like it's just a problem andyou fix that hole and there you go,
it's fixed. Even without tari No. There's a lot of reasons why
this team went from fifteen to twelvein the first twenty seven to nine and
eighteen in the next twenty seven.And you know, basically you can cut

(36:12):
the season in thirds, first twentyseven, middle twenty seven, and now
the last twenty eight. So let'sthink optimistically. I think at this point
we all know a play and runis very unlikely. It's not impossible.
But ESPN's Basketball Power Index has itat two point one percent, So ninety
eight percent it's not going to happen. The damage has been done. You're
three and a half behind a surgeonGolden State Warriors team that has future Hall

(36:37):
of famers all over the place.It's going to be very difficult. Yet
it's not like there's nothing to playfor. I think, you know,
finishing closer to forty wins than thirtythat would mean a lot when it comes
to the baseline going into next year. And if you finish this last third
similar to the first third, thenI think when we look back at this
season, it's easy to say,hey, like that middle third exaggerated based

(37:00):
on the injuries and so bad luck, and you can sort of go into
this offseason knowing that, hey,when you're healthy, this is a team
that simply, based on the formof these players right now, is in
the range of five hundred just asis. And that's before you consider internal
growth or any external acquisitions. Onthe other hand, if you have another

(37:22):
nine and eighteen or I guess nineand nineteen or ten and eighteen, whatever
it may be, stretch over theselast twenty eight games, then it starts
to look like, well, maybeit's the first twenty seven that we're the
outlier and this team is further awaythan what we wanted to think a month
or two ago. So there's alot to play for, even if the
play in is admittedly a long shot, especially with how difficult the last or

(37:46):
the next six games are going tobe before the schedule finally eases up a
little bit in March. Close outthe pod, I want to ask you,
and I'll offer mine. First,we did not compare our answers to
this before the pod because I wantedto go in blind and see if we
have the same answer are different.But what is the biggest individual variable over

(38:07):
these last twenty eight games? Becauseat a team level, I think it's
pretty obvious what's to play for,and I just laid out I think a
lot of how the final record isgoing to influence how you feel about this
season, even if we can seethat a play and run is unlikely.
No matter what, there's still alot to be determined about the narrative of
this season, what it means movingforward, based on how they finish in

(38:28):
this final third, and whether it'scloser to the successful first third than the
very unsuccessful second third that just wrappedup leading into the All Star break.
That's at the team level, andin some ways, you know, the
team I guess record at this pointis a little less important in anyway because
even though yeah, it'd be nicefor the narrative. Look, you're not
going to make the playoffs this yearanyway, so it's not like you can
spend it as arousing success. Evenif they get to you know, thirty

(38:51):
nine and forty three, forty eightytwo. I mean, it's nice growth,
tremendous, you're on your growth,but it's not where they want it
to be and where I think,I think, as recently as Christmas,
felt like they would be with regardsto the team level. So I think
with this year, and as wesaid leading off, it's not a win
now season regardless, it's just phasetwo of the rebuilds, still relatively early

(39:12):
on. So in the bigger picture, it's more about the individual development.
What players take strides and don't takestrides, what players work well together,
what ones don't. Jalen is theeasy answer, But I'm not going to
go with Jalen simply because at thispoint I don't know that there's anything he
can realistically do other than looking likeSGA or Devin Booker consistently for the last

(39:34):
twenty eight games. I just don'tsee that as realistic. It's going to
make you feel that different about himgoing into the off season. I think
the issues with inconsistency and whether youbuy into his ability to eventually shake those,
I think at this point it iswhat it is. There's nothing that
he's going to be able to doover this closing stretch to dramatically change his
value. For me, the oneguy I am looking at is all per

(39:58):
inchin Goon because the last month hasnot been pretty. The defense has regressed,
the offense has a little bit aswell, and yet if you squent
hard enough, if you look atit glass half full, you can one
hundred percent make a case that hewas overused. They had to rely on
him even more than they expected overthe first couple of months of this year

(40:20):
with Jalen not doing what the Rocketsexpected, with Tari being in and out
of the lineup, they had tolean on Shingoon so heavily. And we
also know going to the Ulster breakthat Shinangoon was having his own issues with
back problems, and just as wementioned the Ulstar break, giving Fred a
chance to heal up his back,hopefully the same is true with Shino and
that can definitely for a big man, have a lot to do with how

(40:43):
physical you are around the rim.And how will you are to throw your
body around and go after those tardrebounds. But I think you can go
back to as recently as early January, and we had a pot about whether
Shinggoon was a MAX player this offseason. If his last two months go as
the last I guess month before thetrade deadline did. I don't know that

(41:06):
I feel that way anymore. Andthat's not to say that my previous analysis
was given too hastily, No,because it was based on a much larger
sample. What I'm saying is thatif you combined the last month with two
more months just like it, andall of a sudden, it's not just
like, oh, he hit arough patch and he eventually got his second
win after the All Star break,but maybe teams around the NBA actually did

(41:30):
adjust their coverages to him and Shinoondidn't have the counters. Then at that
point maybe you do have to sayif you're the Rockets, yeah, maybe
you've got to wait until after yearfour. He as did lower cap hold
anyway, since he was a midfirst round pick, and we've got to
see more in terms of what strideshe can make defensively. Offensively, we
always very good but can he betruly great? There's a lot to be

(41:50):
written about the future of all parinShin Gooon based on how he finishes this
season. And that's for a playerwho right now is the best player on
your team, And even with aguy who's as good as Shinngoon has been
this year and we talk so glowinglyabout, there's still a lot to prove,
especially consider how much of a struggleit was for him, especially defensively

(42:12):
over the month leading into the AllStar break. So in terms of individual
storylines, for me, the biggestthing to watch for is a Shingoon bounce
back and whether he can recapture theform he had. I would say about
mid January onward was where it feltlike he really started to slip, especially
defensively, but some on the offensiveend as well. Power Is there anything

(42:34):
you wanted to add on that front? And is there any other storyline that
you're looking at on an individual levelthat might be similarly important. Yeah,
I would have gone with Kingoon.Galen's too easy, so I'll go with
something else. There's something that darky. When you first asked me this question,
I interpreted it as what would bethe biggest swing factor for the Rockets

(42:59):
to win more in the second halfof the season. With that, uh
and so my answer to that is, actually, and since since I'm not
going to be taking one of theyoung guys, I mean, I won't,
I won't. I won't cut anycordance. I'll just say it.
I think it's still on Brooks defenseand still on Brooks shot selection. I
think if he can become the defensivestopper he was really in the season,

(43:22):
a guy you put on the posingteam's best player, which we are doing
anyways, we're not getting nearly thesame results. If he can, you
know, have that defense back andhave the chest selection turned back to what
it was back then, I thinkhe's a massive place for this team.
And the fact that the Rockets andyou know, scaling it into the future.
The Rockets have invested in him forfour years. The contract for the

(43:44):
first half of the season looked likea really good contract. If these trends
do not regress to more positive ormore more positive state, I'm not sure
that's a positive contract anymore. Andthe Rockets are in for it for for
four years, so both you know, for the future, both for the
future and for this season. Ithink you even take a lot of pressure

(44:06):
off of Alpra and shingun defensively byhaving Dylan Brooks b Delan Brooks out there,
because he's not just stopping the bestguy when he's off the ball.
He was one of the best rotatorson the team. He was playing her
defense in an awesome way, andthat helps. You know. Shing would
not have not be as exposed todrivers as as he who's been the last

(44:29):
few games. So yeah, I'lljust I'll go with Dylan Brooks. I
think you know he's a massive swingfactor for this team and especially with our
it's not being here. Yeah,that coupled with the fact that he is
a much more I could have saidthe same a lot of the same things
about Fred that with but he hasa who's much more of a long term

(44:52):
bat by the Rockets. They don'thave an out after years two. They
have the full four years cuarantee,So I'll go with that well. And
I would also say that Fred isa little better when it comes to the
leadership and the intangibles, not thatyou give a guy forty plus million for
that annually, but there's still clearlysome positive value when he's out there,
even if the players regrets to somelevel, I don't think the one in

(45:12):
six and the seven games that hewas out and the one went by the
way he's under protests for the Knicks, I don't think with Dylan there's nearly
the same and tangible value that Fredclearly provides. I mean with any of
the young guys. If you've noticedwhen people talk to Shangoon about his jump
or Jabari about what he's jumped inyear two. Although I will say if

(45:35):
I had to give like a youknow, Shinoon for me was the clear
answer, Dylan was for you.I think a good honorable mention would be
Jabari's withitth junior, because by andlarge it's been a leap forward for him.
But over the last thirteen games,the shooting has jumped back to rookie
levels. The defense has not goneback to rookie levels, thankfully, the
shooting has. Hopefully that's just ablip based on random small sample and the
ankle injuries. If for some reasonit's not, then yeah, if Jabari's

(45:59):
shooting in the load of mid thirtiesfrom three as opposed to you know,
the high thirties from your forty percenthe was. When he's at his best,
then you might feel a little bitdifferently about him going into your three.
But to circle back to Fred versusDylan, when you hear Stingoon,
when you hear Jabari asked about theirgrowth and what's taken them to the next
level, it's always about the presenceof a true point guard, a guy

(46:20):
like Fred Binfleet that knows how toyou know, get them the ball in
their spots and avoid turnovers, andso he does so many things at the
team level that even if they aren'tcaptured in the box score, still has
some value. Dylan's a guy werehonestly for him, not saying he's a
bad guy in the locker room.But I don't think he's laying down to
the extent that Fred is. It'smore just is he going to hold his
weight defensively and win those one onone battles And if he doesn't, and

(46:43):
if he chucks bad shots, thenhe just doesn't have the other layers to
his game to still provide positive valuethe way a guy like Fred does.
Right. Yeah, although although todifferent two different you know, parts of
the locker roof, I think they'llI mean you're in the building, so
you know this father than me,but I out of expected and so still
have a pretty big Yeah. Yeahhe at of the wings right for the

(47:04):
wings. Yeah he does. Andyou know Tari's talked well of him,
so it's not nothing. But yeah, I would just say that it's not
quite to the extent that that Fredis as far as establishing the culture,
the leadership, and you know,eMates referred to Fred as basically a coach
on the floor and that's sorely missingin terms of organizing the offense when he's
not in those games. So yeah, it's not to say that Dylan is

(47:25):
not making a positive impact. It'sjust I wouldn't go to the extent that
that the Rockets do with Fred.And so because of that, it's harder
to sort of give him the benefitof the doubt if the defense isn't there,
if he's not making the shots theway you would with Fred, where
even if we say, hey,there's been this slippage, you know,
it's not that you would give Breda blank check and say, oh,
he's worth it no matter what.No, there are some standards, but

(47:47):
I think you just give Fred alittle bit longer leash because just the way
people talk about him, and quitefrankly, the you know, I've seen
people on Twitter calling it a CTEball that the Rockets revert into when Fred
isn't out there. It's just notnearly to the same extent with Della.
And so because of that, Yeah, I think there's probably more swing Varians
with Dylan over this last third thanthere is with Fred, who I think

(48:10):
by and large you're going to lookat Fred as a clearly positive difference maker
no matter what, and even iffor some reason he isn't, even if
for some reason there is a regression, then he's not. As you know,
he's expiring as soon as next season. It's not like you have him
in a four year contract the waythat you do with Dylan. And he's
a little bit older. So forall those reasons, Dylan is probably a
little bit more of variable between thetwo of them for the final third,

(48:32):
all right, and then go ahead, just then to be fair to the
to the CTE meme thing, andit's not like the offense looks really that
good with Fred anyways. It's justI think it's just a lot of I
think it just comes down to coaching. And he makes a defensive guy and
you know, hopefully they get someonein in the off season to help,
you know, make the offense better. It's not like did they go from

(48:52):
a really good offense to a garbatoand they go from a bad offense to
a garbage it. So yeah,it goes through being bad but tolerable to
just being off the charts saggeringly badat times. And so that's where,
yeah, that's where you really noticedit. And of course combined with the
aforementioned shingoon regression, not a bigone offensively, but a little bit.

(49:13):
And to your point, any regressionoffensively hits especially hard because when you're below
average to begin with, it doesn'ttake much to go from below average to
really really bad just difficult to watch. And that's what it felt like the
Rockets were over the last week orso going into the All Star break,
punctuated by those awful losses in Torontoand Memphis that may have really just taken

(49:34):
away any realistic chance they still hadat a play in tournament push this season.
All right, well we'll see ifthat's true. The Rockets, I
will say, if somehow they goon a run over the next five or
six games and the tougher part oftheir schedule. Then even if it's two
percent now, you can't write themoff. There's enough basketball still to be
played that in theory, they couldstill salvage this, But it's definitely unlikely,

(49:55):
and we'll probably get a quick answerout of the break when they add
this back to back Thursday in NewOrleans Friday at home versus Phoenix. Do
they look like a very different basketballteam or is it more of the same.
If it's more the same, thenat some point you're probably gonna see
the Rocket shift and do a littlebit more of a development mode, not
immediately, but definitely down the homestretch of the season. At that point,
you'd also have to consider the topfour protection that you have on your

(50:16):
pick, oh to Oklahoma City,and maybe trying to maximize the odds of
not just the Brooklyn pick, buteven the Houston pick getting into the top
four of the draft lotter In somehowyou end up with two lottery picks,
maybe even to top four picks ifyou get insanely lucky. That's not something
that's driving the Rockets now, Butif it's clear that there's no play in
hopes not just two percent, maybeit slips to zero percent or zero point

(50:37):
two. Then, yeah, atthat point you may have to start making
some hard decisions internal in maybe that'swhen it makes a little bit more sense
to actually pull the trigger on somethingmore drastics, such as actually benching Jalen
Green from the starting lineup. Timewill tell, anyway, we'll pick up
those themes next week and in theweeks to come. We've gone on long
enough for this the part two ofour All Star Break series of pods,

(50:59):
talking a little more macro about wherethe Rockets are in the big picture,
what they're trying to do at ahigh level strategically. We'll pick back up
the micro in terms of what's goingright, what's going wrong, hopefully more
right, because things have definitely beena bit more wrong in recent thods.
But yeah, whatever happens on amicro level, we'll pick that up more
starting next week when we get backinto game mode. Rockets have a lot

(51:20):
of games in a short period comingup, starting with, of course,
the back to back tonight in NewOrleans and Friday at home against Phoenix.
All Right, so we'll break ithere until next time, and if you
want more from us in the interroom. The best place to find that is
on Twitter or x follows on thereat Pollo Als, NBA, I'm in
They're at Bendubo's, and the showThe Logger Line is on there at the

(51:42):
logger Line, where if you goto Twitter dot com, slash the logger
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(52:07):
those plugs complete, we will signoff for Paolo. I'm Ben. Thanks
as always for listening, and pleasecome back soon for another new episode of
the Logger Line.