REWIND: Hoyt Richards - From Supermodel to Cult Member - Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're about to listen to one of our favorite episodes
of trust Me from July seventh, twenty twenty one, about
how Hoyt Richards was indoctrinated into the Eternal Values cult.
If you're new here, follow the show so you don't
miss the July thirtieth three turn of trust Me on
the Exactly Right Network.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you have your own story of being in a
cult or a high control group, or if you've had
an experience with manipulation or abusive power you'd like to share,
leave us a message on our hotline number at five
one three nine hundred two nine five five.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at
gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Trust Me, trust Me, trust Me.

Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm like a swat person.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I've never lived. To you, I never had a live.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Do you think that one person has all the answers?
Don't Welcome to trust Me, the podcast about colts, extreme
belief and the abusive power from two supermodels who've actually
experienced it. I am Lola Blanc and.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm Megan Elizabeth, and.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Today our guest is the endlessly fascinating Hoyt Richards. He
is a producer, actor, and former supermodel who was in
a cult called Eternal Values. He's going to tell us
about being approached by a mysterious older man in Nantucket
named Frederick von Meerers Mir I actually don't remember myers.
Let's say when he was a teenager. This man had
a lot to say about Eastern philosophy, astrology, and New

(01:14):
Age thinking. And he's going to tell us about how,
over time, as Hoyt's career as a male model was
taking off, that man indoctrinated hoy until he believed that
the apocalypse was coming and it had to do with
a distant star called Arcturists.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
We're also going to talk about how hoy finally escaped
and began to heal, how he thinks about what he
now calls cultic relationships, and how Fabio yes that Fabio
was involved in his recovery.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Great Fabio stories.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh who doesn't have a good Fabio's story? Uh? Everyone
except Toy.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I mean probably my friend. My friend just alerted me
to the fact that he was like supporting Trump in
twenty seventeen. Stars A little warmed about that. But you
know what, Okay, we can't all be perfect. Now, we
can all be perfect like me, So Megan tell me
what's the CULTI thing?

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, mine, Holy shit, on a hike, you know how
they have those little book things where people just leave
books and like a little oh yeah, okay, So in
a bookcase there was this book called High on Arrival
by Mackenzie Phillips. I remember seeing it on Oprah. She
is the daughter of the Mama and the Papa's John Phillips.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
The Mamas and the papas different bands. This is the
Mama and the Papa. I don't know if you've heard
of them.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
So I was like, oh, fuck you, I want to
read this book. Holy shit. The cult of rock and
roll is endless. It is wild. It's all stuff we
already knew. But you know, she actually was in a
sexual relationship with her rock star father for ten years.
And just to see the things that these rock stars
were able to get away with, how much they were worshiped,

(02:54):
their lifestyles are just beyond the craziest cults.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Wow, it's oh true when you actually look into the
number of young teenagers, not like I'm talking year old,
seventeen eighty nineteen, yeah, and fucking thirteen year old that
these iconic rock legends were fucking.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Making songs about yes, Oh.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
My god, it's insane. But that's next level though. Her dad,
her dad, So how old was she when that started?

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Let me think, let me think, let me trigger warning,
obviously we're about to chock pardon yes, trigger yeah. I
think the first time it happened she was in her
early twenties. But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh so it wasn't like from when she was a child.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
She wasn't a child, but she was young.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
But did she say how she felt about it?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I believe they were in a different country, they were somewhere,
they were in a hotel. They're both very high on drugs,
and she said she passed out and then she woke
up and that was happening. And then she like told
her family about it, and everyone was very upset, but
they were like, you know, this is going to ruin
his reputation. He's on a lot of drugs, like whatever.

(04:04):
And then I was very impressed. I mean, this is
assuming this is all correct, which in real which I
think it is. But she said she talked to him
a few months later. I was like, Dad, we need
to talk about when you rape me and he was like,
you mean when we made love? Like no, no, and
she was like, I think he's just so high on drugs.
It's like he doesn't know what's right and what's wrong.

(04:26):
And then a few years later it just started happening
like every day.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So he basically gas led her so hard and convinced
her that the rape was actually something that she Yeah,
oh my god, that's horrible. Sorry, made we already did
the trigger warning, but I'm sorry. I wasn't prepared. I
wasn't prepared for this one. Yeah, that's fucking insane. Yeah,

(04:52):
you had mentioned another awful story about how Mick Jagger
also was living with this poor girl's girl.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, she said that her and her dad and mcgaiger
were doing drugs one night and like mcjager ass her
dad for a tuna sandwich and when her dad disappeared,
McJagger locked the door and picked up with her, and
her dad was like pounding on the door like, hey,
that's my daughter. But not even really mad that McJagger
is having sex with the stuff. Oh, it's just that
it was even David Bowie.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Even David Bowie was sleeping with thirteen year olds. Are
we surprised by that?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
I'm I don't know. It just sucks.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think every old man listening to this is going
to be like loads were different times, right, but thirteen y'all. No, No,
that's a little kid.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's gross.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
That's a kid.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, what about you?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, I don't know I can follow that up, but
that was my plan. We do really assign rock stars
this iconic cult leader status and they get away with
whatever the fuck we want, as we have talked about
a bit, But that would be an interesting episode actually,
like an old groupie, Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, we
should try to find any groupies former groupies listening, please
dm us my couldiest thing. Look, I had a real

(06:02):
decompression week, so I didn't do that much. However, after
last week's episode in which I talked about or was
it the week before, I don't remember, one of the
last two weeks in which I talked about the experience
that I had with the Shabari artist, the rope bondage guy,
and I was saying how that was a really cool
experience for me because you know, previously, when I have

(06:23):
hooked up with men who kind of identify as dominant
or whatever, it's just kind of like purely aggressive and
no communication. I got some angry messages. Oh and a
couple of supportive ones as well, being like this is
how BEDSM always is. It sounds like that's the only
person you've ever, you know, had an experience with who
was legitimately in the BDSM community. So let me be
clear everyone, Yes, the safe. Do you remember what the

(06:48):
acronym was?

Speaker 1 (06:49):
All right?

Speaker 2 (06:49):
She was saying, they change it to risk aware consensual KING.
But basically the idea is that, like, if you're actually
in the KING community, you are practicing active consent, You
are communicy in advance, you are making sure that the
other person is comfortable with everything that's happening. It is
really all about the subs comfort level, not the doms.
So yes, if you are actually in the kink community,

(07:12):
I am so sorry if I have offended you. However,
I think it's important to discuss the fact that usually
that's not what's happening. I've hooked up with a number
of men in my day, even if it's just like
a makeout or whatever. Like I've hooked up in some
fashion with a number of fellas in Los Angeles, and
let me tell you, a good portion of them were
choking or you know, like doing something relatively aggressive the

(07:36):
number of them who actually like asked what I wanted
and checked in and communicated with me about that I
can count on one hand.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
That's psycho.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean, most women I know have this experience, though
has not been your experience. No really no, I mean
it's not like they're doing it crazy hard, right, but
like I think that is deaf. Definitely more normal than not.
And it's not like they're trying shabari on me and
you know, like yeah or doing anything crazy. But most

(08:09):
people just kind of willy nilly like do the thing
because they think that that's hot or that's what the
girl's gonna find hot or whatever. They don't fucking communicate
about it at all. And this is what us who
aren't in the king community are going about our lives
and like not realizing that there is an alternative way
to do it. That's cool anyway. I think it's important.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
It's not about shaming people who are doing it right
or oh.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, y yeah, we want like that's great. We should
all be communicating more during sex and before sex and
after sex. You know, it's such a taboo topic we
don't really talk about it. But I also think it's
important to acknowledge that, like, without those discussions, nothing is
ever gonna, like culturally get better if you're just gonna
get mad, right, you know it makes sense, but so

(08:54):
sorry if I offended, y'all.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Wait before we start. Alison Matt got three years in
gel three years.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
I don't ever know how to gauge what like a
fair amount of jail time is to be honest.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, you're not a judge, so that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
But judges don't either, They're just people. Yeah, like what
is justice? Sorry, I'll hear a number of years that
a person who was going to prison for and I
only understand no prison or lifetime prison, and everything in
the middle just feels arbitrary. I don't know. Is that
not enough? Is that too much? What do you think?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I think it's probably not enough, just from listening to
her victims who say they don't think it's fair.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Do we know how much they wanted?

Speaker 1 (09:33):
I think the one I was reading was like she
wanted maximum, which I believe was ten years.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Okay, ten years would have made sense, I guess. Yeah.
So I don't understand prison in general, I guess, so
it's hard for me to wrap my head around. But
I'm glad she is facing consequences. She harmed a lot
of people. I thought that what the judge said was interesting.
Do you remember what he said or.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
He said something about how like he knows that she
heard a lot of people, but he doesn't doubt that
she also was a under the influence of being her
and manipulated.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
It is so hard in cases like these because like
you don't really know where the line is and you
just have to something has to be done about the
harm that they've caused, even if they were brainwashed, Like,
something must be done. They must see a consequence. So
that's interesting though, because the thing is most people don't
serve their full sentences anyway, right, so it probably.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right she's going to really see the inside of anything. Yeah,
that's really interesting. Yeah it sucks, but well I'm glad
she's going to jail.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah that's the upside. But yeah, I uh, well, we
fully support India and all the rest of her victims
and send love to y'all.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Also, last week, did I say that Alison Mack was
the one who is all up on my Twitter? Because
that's not what I meant. That was a I misspoke.
I met Nikki Klein. Oh, her wife, her wife, And
I didn't mean all up on my Twitter, but she
faved one of my tweets, and she paved one of
my mom's tweets, and she she just met her guy.
I knows tweets who she knows? Uh, Nikki Klein, not
Alison Mac That's weird. I need to stop just saying
stuff cool?

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Cool?

Speaker 2 (10:59):
What if I just stopped talking?

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Not the podcast anyone wants to listen to. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
It sounds soothing to me.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Was breathing episode thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Honestly, I fox with that.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
All right?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Anyway, shut up, Lola. So let's begin our interview with
the wonderful, fascinating wit.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Shall we welcome White Richards to the show.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Nice to see you in person. Yes, our first in
person guest in like a year, two years or something, maybe,
is that true?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
I'm really the first one.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, we have like our first few we did, but
then you know, we didn't come out for a long time,
so it's been a long time.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah after COVID, Yeah, you're first after COVID guests.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Very exciting.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
I am happy to be back in that realm of
no masks and just kind of seeing people's faces.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
We're back, we're vaxed, we've got no masks. Doing great.
Your story is so fascinating, I mean.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Fast it is.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh my god, there's so many layers to it. Okay,
the start us at the beginning is a good place
to start generally. So you're born in Pennsylvania, correct, Yeah,
I'm one of six kids, number four.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
I guess they always say that middle kids always looking
for his identity. But every summer we would go up
to Nantucket.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
I love Nantucket, Oh do you?

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Okay? So I love it. And I think if you
could put one word to describe Nantucket, besides it being
kind of waspy and preppy and all that stuff, is safe, right.
I mean it's a small little island. When you were
eight or ten years old, your parents have no problem
letting you run wild through the town because there's only
one town, right, So as a kid, you have vast independence.

(12:57):
And I just said, I mean for my family, would
which is I love my family. And we were a
large family. And my cousins who lived two doors down,
they had four kids, so I basically grew up in
a family at ten all like toe Head blondes. We
all ended up on Nantucket'd be Blonde at the yacht club,
and we did the sailing at the tennis and the
whole water skiing and so all of that was our

(13:20):
highlight of the summer and something that I always remember
as being the best times of the family, so to speak. Yeah,
so at sixteen, when this individual puts a towel down
next to mine, and my life took a tangent that
I would have never imagined. I would not have thought
that would have happened on Nantucket.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Tell us about this guy, You're sixteen years old.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Do you think he saw you and was like, I'm
going to sit by him.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
I don't know, because because he had kind of been
vetted by my peer group at that point. Okay, so
i'd heard of him. His real name was Freddie Myers.
When I met him, he was Frederick von Meers.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Ah Megan Vonalisabeth.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
That's one of his friends at the time. Some we
are on the ferry ride over the Nantucket. He dropped
the Brooklyn Jewish background and became a wasp from Dutch
heritage and all sort of stuff. So I've tried to
psychoanalyze it with the limited information I've found, and I'm
actually finding more information now. But he was born I think,

(14:19):
to an unwed mom at sixteen. The mother had another daughter,
which I just found this out, and then I think
had two other daughters with another man. And he basically,
as far as I've been told, has worked very hard
to distance himself from that history that he grew up with.
He developed a new kind of accent, he created the

(14:39):
new name. You would call it kind of a attachment disorder,
I think is the proper term. Someone who's been wounded
by either abandonment or abuse at a young age and
is seeking out some sort of situation where they never
have to be hurt again, so they kind of foster
code of pena relationships. One of the interesting things about
my story is I basically got in on the ground

(15:02):
floor of a startup that.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Was It.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Wasn't a cult yet. You know, when I met him,
he was just spending his summers on Nantucket and he
had met my friends, and he had the reputation of
being kind of a throwback through the sixties. What year
is this like, nineteen seventy eight? Okay, because it's important,
Yet it's important to set the context of when these
stories happened. It's one of the things I've realized in

(15:28):
telling my story a few thousand times that if you
don't kind of set the world that was going on
at the time, and there's a real pushback against traditional
religions and people are looking in the new alternative approaches.
So this guy was into Eastern philosophy, kind of ancient civilizations, astrology.
He mainly focused on the hindu Vedas, which are amazing scriptures.

(15:51):
And I'm sure as you guys both know that most
of the information you initially get introduced to is valid,
and I think that's one of the hardest things to
discern as you go through trying to figure things out,
because a lot of the information you had was absolutely true,
and maybe the interpretation of it or certainly how the
behavior that you experienced in the group is vastly different

(16:11):
than what is maybe on the page, But at that point,
certainly early on, you don't necessarily figure that out, and
if you question it, you're being told because you're looking
at it wrong, not because that's actually what's happening. Basically,
I meet this guy, and my friends had said, yeah,
he was just someone who's kind of fun, but far
out and just not to really take with more than

(16:32):
a gran of salt. So he sits down next to me,
and he starts talking about Eastern philosophy and ying and
yang and making designs in the sand, and.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Oh, just from the beginning, he's like jumping.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Right in, right in, right in. And I remember because
I'm sixteen and he was probably mid thirties at that point,
and I really appreciated the fact that he was speaking
to me like an adult, and he was also making
the clear assumption that I understood what he was talking about,
which for the most part I didn't, but he would
frame it by saying, you're very smart too, you'll understand this,

(17:06):
which is a great manipulation arget right, because then you
feel really awkward to say, I don't know what you're
talking about, right.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
I'm actually not really smart, not at all.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
But he's very likable, very charismatic, as a lot of
these people are, of course, and it was not like
a like a full court press by any standard. It
was more about he was very social, and he invited
me to these parties that he would have now sixteen,
the drinking age in Nantucket was eighteen, so of course
I was already drinking, and I just saw this as

(17:42):
an opportunity to get free beer. Apparently he was having
these quite frequent parties at his place. It was on
India Street. I love you n Nantuck well, but it's
right in town. And I went there, you know, just occasionally,
because he would have these parties and I would get
free I could bring my friends and we would have beer,
and there was like people from sixteen to eighty. And

(18:02):
I've since come to know that he was known for
these parties. He was very much in this party mode,
and so when I met him, basically it was like
a narcissist with a entourage. That's what was going on.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
So was he like a Gatsby kind of figure? Like
is it glamorous?

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, he had been a model, so he's a good
looking guy. Now, this I did not know, but I
found out from his friends who knew him before I did,
because he'd been doing these parties for a long time
on Nantucket. And he would actually run the way he
had it set up. He would rent this house and
then he'd invite his friends and they would all have
to pay, and he would not have to pay for it,
so he would just have enough friends to come pay

(18:40):
for the house, and then he'd run it like a ship,
like you had to be up early, clean everything that
had happened from the night before, restock the bar, clean
the entire house, and get ready for the party. Because
Litty he was having a party almost every night.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
So he's got like these party servants who are just.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Kind of well they're guests, but they're you know, they're
all the party mode. But if you were going to
be a guest, you had to kind of play by
the rules that he and he would give them cards
that would have the address of the house and then
he'd give them the instructions. Only the beauties, only the bouties, wow,
and not their friends. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
So that was kind of his modus operendum. So so
that was the I met him when I was sixteen.
I would see him during the summers, and it was
never he had he had his ephemerist, which is the
thing that astrologers used, are going to read where you
came from and did all that, and and so that
would be kind of his party trick. He'd say, O,
when's your birthday? And you kind of and then you'd

(19:42):
look in the effemeris and kind of do like a
quick horoscope on you, and that was kind of something
that a lot of people loved. And I remember, for
me specifically that he seemed to be doing that with
my friends and not doing it doing my chart, and
I felt really jilted at first, and really like, well,
on's he going to do mine? And I don't know
if that was a conscious.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Technique or not, right it sounds like it, but.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
The way it played out was I just saw him
as an eccentric person I would see during the summer
and I never felt like a full court press from
him or any recruitment per se. It wasn't until I
got back. I studied for a year in England before
I decided to go to college.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Which was Princeton, which was Princeton pretty fancy.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Well, everyone in my family was going to very good school,
so it's just trying to keep up with the Joneses.
My brothers and sisters are all great students, and there's
just kind of something my parents put high expectations on,
so I didn't want to let them down. I loved Princeton,
but when he knew I was going to be in
Jersey and not that far from Manhattan, which was his home.

(20:47):
That's when he said, oh, well, you should come up
and bring some friends. And at this point I didn't
really know he had a full entourage. I met his
friends at these parties, but I didn't really know I
went to New York to see him that he had
literally this group that he would hang out with. And
the big hook was we go to Studio fifty four.

(21:08):
You know. So at this point, I'm like eighteen nineteen,
and my perception at that time was I was working him. Now.
I knew he was very effeminate and gay, but he
never was hitting on me, and so I never felt
like that was happening. But I knew he kind of
liked me in that sense, not like sexually, but just

(21:29):
kind of found me appealing. And so I literally remember
having a very conscious thought pattern of like, oh, I
can kind of work this to my benefit my friends,
and we can get in Studio fifty four, which is
exactly how it worked out. I'd go up there for
a couple nights and we'd go to studio for both nights,
and then.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
It's so fun.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Wait, so for the kids, can you tell what Studio
fifty four was?

Speaker 3 (21:50):
So Studio fifty four was the next level of a nightclub.
I mean it was during the disco age, but walking
in the studio, it was literally like it had a pulse.
I mean it was originally set up, I think, to
be a theater, and so they had all these kind
of theatrical lightings, but they would have special shows and

(22:10):
they have had dancers. I mean my first time walking in,
I was greeted by this girl wearing nothing but Scotch tape.
I mean she had like a Scotch little bra top
and little panties, and I thought, my god, I never
want to leave, Like this is just the best.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
I mean, And the people who would go there, I
mean I think of Andy Warhol first.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
And foremost met and got to know.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean I'm looking at the list of people who
would fature.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, the Elton John.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I am at Elton John later. But I did see
Liza Minelli there. I mean everybody was there.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, it was like the place to be.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, it was the place. And I actually only caught
the second wave. The first wave in the late seventies
was when it really kind of was off the hook.
And then they got arrested for i mean, you know,
Letty gardge Cans full of cash, dashed ol and it
was I mean, I mean, drugs were just freely flowing.
I mean sometimes you see people literally having sex on

(23:08):
the dance floor. Sure, certainly in the rafters. And there
was this one little rafters. Yeah. Well they had these
kind of kind of like very wide seats that were
kind of semi like sofas.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, you're just asking for s.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
It was all very convenient. And then they had a
downstairs area where it was kind of the VIP celebrity
thing and and that's where people were just openly just
doing lots of blow and things and and yeah. So
I had several adventures in there. And coming from a
very kind of conservative, waspy background, this was just like
Alison Wonderlan, I'm walking through the looking glass and this

(23:45):
is this whole new thing. So that's why as it
played out, I was no way thinking I was getting
involved in the cult, because I mean, I'm you know,
I'm going to stud event for now. What we would do,
which was a little bit out of the ordinary. He
was always kind of targeting people, but he would do
it from the point of view of, oh, that girl's fabulous,

(24:06):
you should be with her. And he was great at
introducing to people, and then we would kind of make
half a dozen people that night, and then we'd go
back to the apartment and we would have high tea
as he would call it, at like six in the
morning and talk about all these spiritual ideas.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
That sounds like heaven.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah, it was great. And it wasn't like we were
taking drugs and it wasn't like we were heavily drinking.
It was much more this kind of spiritual thing, this
kind of thing that was evolving. Again, this is the
early eighties, and this is really when all that stuff
like New Age movement was just starting to kind of birth.
He was like an early inventor with health food. Yeah,
I didn't even know what a health food store was

(24:44):
until I met Freddie. And I specifically call him Freddy
because he always wanted to be called Frederick, so I
know he would cringe. It's always fready. Now to me,
it's very very fulfilling, and so yeah, that was really
what it was about at first. It's just opportunities to

(25:04):
go to New York hang out with some people that
seemed to be in things that most of my friends
weren't really investigating. I was never a religious. I always
had a belief in God, but I never really felt
devout in any way. But I had a very strong
sense of fairness, and I've thought there's a certain level
of decency that way people should respect and treat each other.

(25:26):
And a lot of the Eastern philosophy kind of resonated
with that. Because my Christian upbringing, my impression was going
to church and hearing someone talk a lot about stuff
that I wasn't interested in, and then passing around this
thing with the money, and then your slate's been made
clean and then just come back next week do whatever
you want, but you know, slate clean, slate for the

(25:47):
week coming up. And I was like, that did not
work for me. I felt there should be a sense
of accountability. So when I got exposed to Eastern philosophy
and karma and that sort of thing, I'm like, oh,
that makes a lot more sense to me that you
actually need to be accountable for your actions and for
each reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction, and that
really kind of resonated with me. And the idea of reincarnation.

(26:10):
You know that you don't have just one shot. So
someone's born into a wealthy family, someone's born on the street,
someone's crippled, someone's blind, and someone's a billionaire at birth.
I'm like, well, that doesn't seem very fair. So the
fact that you have potentially multiple lifetimes that all really
resonated with me.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
And when a message resonates like that and you don't
necessarily have exposure to other sources of a similar message,
it's hard to reject the person who is conveying that
message to you.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, exactly. And I try to relate it to people
that if you don't have a game plan and you
feel like you should and listen, I'm sixteen then eighteen.
It's not like I needed to have one, but I
did feel like I should have one. Like from the
point of view that I seem to be Delta, pretty
winning hand. I was capable of school, as a good athlete,
I made friends easily. My parents gave me a nice

(26:58):
genetic package that people seem to appreciate.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
So, well, no, he's a handsome fellow, you guys, first
male supermodel.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Well, I just I tell people I can't take credit
for the costume. I just wear it. My parents get
all the credit. So all of that, a lot of
people would think, oh, well, you would be so secure then,
and I was massively insecure because I'm like, I had
no passion, nothing that I really got me terribly excited
about other than football. And I knew realistically that I
couldn't continue playing that for long. And that actually ended

(27:32):
up being the critical factor that got me more involved
with the group. Was I was playing football at Princeton
and doing it okay, not setting the world on fire,
but all my friends were football players, and that had
been so much a self identity. And then I started
really having problems with my shoulders and it looked like
I may have to either have an operation or consider stopping.

(27:54):
And that's where I went up to New York to
see a shoulder specialist, because the trainer at Princeton he said,
I think you need to stop because my shoulders were
partially disocating. I had done gymnastics when I was younger,
and so i'd stretched the league and it's doing the rings.
And then I'd always played offense and been receiver or
running back, but they switched me to the defense, and
the tackling was just tearing my shoulders apart because my

(28:17):
shoulders would just I could show you, so I can
just discocate my shoulders like that.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Oh, I'm betting that's not good for both.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
So I actually went up to New York to get
a second opinion. I found out that really they could operate,
but they couldn't guarantee me full mobility, meaning that I
wouldn't be able to necessarily reach my hand always over
my head. And I said, I can't play the position
if I can't if I can reach there. So I
went through really an identity crisis. And that was when

(28:46):
Freddy kind of said, well, this is why you should
come to New York and you should start modeling and acting,
and you've got these opportunities. And he had been a
model and he knew the guy who ran Forward Models,
and so that was kind of at my entry point.
Now the story's a little convolut that you don't have
to get into. So it didn't immediately work, but eventually

(29:07):
it did. And at first I was told I was
too blond, I was too big because I was playing
football and I never saw myself as a model. That's
not how I perceived myself to be. But eventually it
did work out, and then it really took off. And
because it replaced football, it's kind of this decision of
a twenty one year old of like, well, if I
can't be a football star, maybe I'll just try to

(29:30):
be a star. Like that was literally where my ego
could kind of find some solace.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
And it worked. You were modeling with the biggest supermodels
of the time, right, like, can you drop some names
for us?

Speaker 3 (29:41):
I can, because I came in if you consider it
like an entry class like you were at university. I
came in with Cindy and Christy and Naomi and Claudia.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
And Claudia subsessed, Wow, I'm a Naomi girl.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Actually, Christy, I'm a Christie girls.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
I met when she was fourteen at the Christmas party
and she was just like an alien genetic Marvel.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
I'm like, this girl was so before which Christy is
it Turlington or yeah?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
So Christy Turley then was my generation. Brinkley was like
the generation before me. I remember looking at Christy Brinkley
and like the Sports Illustrated you know, when I was
a teenager.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
And actually my second modeling job was with Kathy Ireland,
and I totally had a crush on to Kathy Ireland
literally was in awe and then she had this squeaky,
tiny little voice that I didn't have the heart to
tell my friends, like it was not the voice I expected.
She since corrected her voice, and good for her, but

(30:43):
it was really disappointing.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
This kind of I find that all the time when
I meet like hot girls on Instagram in person, I'm like, whoa,
that's how you?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah right. That was the point when I started to
come into New York a lot more to pursue the modeling,
and that's kind of when the hooks went in, and
that's where I started to really kind of be indoctrinated.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
So at this point online I read that he was
from a star called Arcturist. Did you know this from
the start? No?

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Okay, yeah. I think that's an important part of the
story from the point of view that those type of
things don't come out like in the opening conversation. That's
not the pitch of right, because then you'd be like
this guy, yeah, you're crazy, yeah exactly. So that information
gets revealed as you move up the food chain. So,
because he was into astrology, the premise he would make,

(31:32):
which listen is not far fetched, was the idea that sure,
you incarnate here on Earth, but you also incarnate all
over the universe. Sure, Freddy said, the place that he
considered home just happened to be the spiritual center of
the universe.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Am I on Earth?

Speaker 3 (31:55):
So the idea was supposedly he came back to Earth
to find the fellow Auctorians. So the whole premise was
that back on Octurius, when we're there on one of
our lucky incarnations, we're at the spiritual center of the universe.
We all got into a huddle and looked at Earth

(32:17):
and said, oh, it's having all sorts of problems. We
got to go down there and help out. And the
idea was, all right, we're all going to kind of
sacrifice and go down and help out things at Earth. Oh,
it's going through this terrible period. And unfortunately none of
us are going to remember this conversation except for Freddie.
He's going to go back and find us and remind
us why we're really here.

Speaker 5 (32:38):
Thank goodness, good good And so as outrageous as the
story as that sounds, because it was kind of the
common urban legend that was kind of going on in
the group at that point.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
When it got revealed to me, all I wanted to
do is know whether I was Octurnan or not. So
that became this kind of carrot that was dangling will
I because at certain points he would finally turn to
someone and say, oh, yes, and you are actorian as well.
And that was a big day.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
So when you say it was an urban legend in
the group, people were talking about it, it was like
a rumor, yeah planet.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, exactly, But it was a star. It was a
star where we were. We were light bodies, you know,
like like like you know, like who's so it's like
it's like leak the crystal. No, okay, well you're not
missing too much, but it's very expensive crystal. And he
would know about that because he was all into the

(33:36):
social register and that sort of thing, and he was
really in the high society. Again, going back to what
I said earlier, trying to distance himself from his original roots.
He presented this whole he knew duke, this person, duchess,
that one prince, that one prince did he apparently it's
very hard for me to look back into now and
trust anything that came out of his mouth. But when

(33:56):
you reached the level of pathology like this guy had,
I don't think you can separate truth from fiction because
I think he loses touch. Oh for sure, Because one
of the most common questions I get all the time,
and I'm sure you guys get it from your stories.
It's like, oh, it was the cult leader in on
the con so to speak.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
I didn't really think he was enturian.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, yeah, And I can only say I think like
a serial killer who starts to operate out of a
certain kind of pathology and gets better at it as
they do it. When you're a master manipulator in lying
becomes kind of the way that you reinvent yourself, I
think you kind of lose track of it, and certainly,
as things continue to work on people, you start to

(34:37):
wonder maybe if.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I say it, it is true, right, I love that.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
And I guess you can't get inside someone else's head.
But certainly, living with him like I did for five years,
I didn't really catch him slipping up in that sense.
I certainly caught him doing plenty of things, Like there
was one time when he was trying to recruit my
younger brother and I was on the phone with him
and my mother was He's dropping. At this point, my

(35:01):
mother had had identified that I'd been in a colt
and said this guy was dangerous and so I was
really pulling away from the family at that point, but
she was easdropping and she confronted him on the phone.
She's like, get off the phone. I can't believe you're talking.
And he who for years have been saying You've got
to confront your mother. She's so evil on this and
that he freaks out and scattered. Yeah, just Liddy panics

(35:23):
and hands me the phone and goes, oh, she's so awful.
And I remember seeing him freak out and just suppressing
that because that didn't fit in the paradigm of the
guy who had everything figured out, was telling me what
to do all the time.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
So there are plenty of instances like that that I
can go back to and see the signs. But at
the time I was so enthralled, and I'm working on
certain projects retelling this story, and I've got certain footage.
We had a cable access show which was.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Saying I would love to see it.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Oh yeah, and it's like twenty six hours of it. Wow,
where there were even more. But when I went back
and looked at this footage and thinking, know, this is
going to be a great way to kind of show
his spiel, so to speak. The most disarming and upsetting
thing for me was seeing him and just going, man,
I wish he was better because I just thought he

(36:15):
was so all about everything and I just see how
full of shitty is now, Like it's so obvious, you.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Know my mom, right, Yeah, our former cult leader, Prophet Guy.
He's on YouTube, which we've mentioned a few times on
the show. And it is disappointing. You're like, damn, you
are just crazy, right, How are you so charismatic? To
me is yeah, no, it.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Really really really is fascinating to kind of go through that,
and I remember just thinking I just wish he was better.
Then they don't look so naive, but we all are.
And that's the thing. I mean. I had a girlfriend
that one time told me you just don't know until
you know, and at that time I'm like, oh, what
the fuck does that mean? But it's a very profound
statement from the point of view that once you figure

(37:01):
something out, very often we want to reverse engineer and
they say, oh, I should figured it out sooner, and
just beat ourselves up. But the truth is you don't
figure it out, that you figure it out, and once
you do know something, then you can operate with a
new lens, but until you get there, you can't beat
yourself up for not kind of connecting the dots.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
We only have the information that we have. And before
we were recording, you were referring to this relationship with
a cult leader or a culture groups as a cultic
relationship that you're in and saying how all of us
can be in cultic relationships. Often they're just one on one.
I think the idea that you suppress information that doesn't
fit in with your idea of a person is something

(37:41):
that we all do all of the time, every time
we are dating somebody new and keeping our rose colored
glasses on because we don't want to believe that we
couldn't be compatible.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, and it's a fascinating thing. Is the way I
do like to frame it is to just say I
had a cultured relationship with a group, because I've done
the cult bomb many times in social situations like, wow,
I was in a cult for twenty years and people
like what And I initially I did that a because
I wanted to be transparent. It's kind of like an

(38:14):
alcoholic good finally wants to take ownership of this part
of their lives, you know, So that was part of it.
But then I also kind of got off on the
shock value of that, and I recognized that that was
not really helping the cause, so to speak, and it
wasn't reflecting well on me because I was kind of
misrepresenting it just to kind of throw someone off their balance.
So I felt that I was being so bold and

(38:35):
brazen to be so open, and that's really I owned
my story and I going to tell you, and I
mean literally I would get into a cab and in
New York and that's how I need to go to
forty second and third, did I tell you was in
a cult? Yeah? No, really twenty years.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Minus twenty years.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
I mean it was like that. It was this compulsion
which you have with a lot of addicts when they
like they when you finally come clean. Because I had
been so dishonest to so many people for so many years,
I just wanted to be honest. Yeah, But I learned
that that approach was not very effective, because ultimately it
was important for me to own this part of my
life but also do it in a way where initially

(39:20):
my impulse was I don't want anyone to be uncomfortable
or afraid to ask me about it because I don't
want to be defined by this. But I want you
to be okay to talk about it because I don't
want you to feel uncomfortable that you're things I can't right,
And I'd rather you hear about it from my mouth
rather than going and googling my name later and going,
what's this that you were involved?

Speaker 6 (39:41):
Right?

Speaker 3 (39:41):
So I had learned Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, I almost think it's a right of passage to
start saying it, like really bluntly like that. The people
I can think of who are doing that the most
frequently on the people who are sort of recently come
to terms with their experience.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
You know, that's exactly right. And so so I find
by framing it as a cultured relationship, people are more
like curious, like, well what does that mean because they
haven't heard it kind of referred to in those terms.
And a cultic relationship, by clinical terms, is any relationship
with the person that you're seeking love and approval from
is in some way controlling and abusing you because an essence,

(40:15):
you've kind of put them in a position of power
or authority by this desire to have their approval, and
so that can be a parent. That can be a brother,
a sister, a coach, a boss, a lover. That is
one of the more common relationships we have, but we
don't identify it as that. We don't realize how traumatic
that relationship is. We usually are pretty effective at finding

(40:38):
our way out of that relationship at some point, but
then we write it off as a bad relationship and
really don't deal with the trauma, and then we kind
of start a cycle of finding similar relationships because we
don't realize we've had this trauma and we're kind of
re enacting that situation to try to learn from it.
And this is you know, what you learn in therapy,
like becoming conscious of unconscious patterns, and so that's why

(41:02):
a situation like mine or what you guys went through,
which is a more extreme version, because there's a group element,
there's peer pressure, there's not just the stakes of one person.
Our group was a doomsday cult, so the fate of
the world was lying in balance, and so all of
this is like that experience on steroids, but the actual

(41:22):
dynamics at play are identical. And what I found as
I became more effective at communicating my story and not
trying to just shock everybody instead of, like I said,
my initial impulse was, I just wanted to be able
to own this part of my life and be able
to be okay with people talking about it so they
don't have to feel uncomfortable around me. But what I

(41:42):
didn't expect and what the real silver lining was, as
I got better at communicating my story like any good story,
instead of you listening to the story, I'm telling, really
great story resonates with someone in their own lives are going,
oh my gosh, reminds me of And I kept that
that's a point, and I kept having people going, oh
my god, this sounds like when the relationship behy with
my boss or my dad or my mom. And that's

(42:05):
when I said, oh my god, this really is a
universal tale. And that's where I felt even more important
to kind of convey this story, because if we don't
all start basically using the same language and the same
nomenclature to describe these experiences we're having, then no one's
really realizing we've got so much more common ground and
so much more healing than it needs to take place,
because we're not identifying the problem. You know, if you

(42:27):
don't have the diagnosis, you can't really get.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
The medicine speaking some truth.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
I've got twenty years of talking about this, so it's like,
hopefully I've made a few strides here and there. But
it's really been interesting because, like when COVID happened to me,
it was a very cultic reaction that was going on
in the world. Like when I walked out during the
two weeks to flatten the curve, I walked out the
side walk, looked down the sidewalk and saw someone like

(42:54):
a block and a half away who recognized I was
a human, freaked out and ran through the side of
the street. I'm like, Okay, this is not the zombie apocalypse, right,
Like I was preparing for the zombie apocalypse, I thought
the whole thing was so and this crazy experience of
mine gave me this lens of what it's like to
live in fear all the time. So I immediately said,

(43:15):
that person's been indoctrinated. You don't get there on your
own thinking like that. You get indoctrinated and be that terrified.
Two weeks into this thing, I'm like, this is bad.
And from that lens going forward, I just watched everyone
gets sucked into this thing where I'm like, man, the
mental health fallout from this is going to be astronomical,

(43:36):
the PTSD. I don't think people realize how traumatized they've been.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
That's what I was going to ask you. I mean
you expected the apocalypse at any moment, which is kind
of no. Yeah, It's like when we've talked about this before,
but when I would go to a movie when I
was younger, I'd be like, can I go to a movie?
And my parents are like, is that where you want
to be when Jesus comes back? And I'd be shit, no,
But you know you always thought that, like it's lunchtime,

(44:00):
will Jesus come back before I finish eating?

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Like?

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Was that what you were living under?

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Yeah? Because Freddie was in all in these prophecies, of
which they were.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
All wrong but shocking.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah, but it was all kind of pointing towards the
end of the millennium.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
So you guys believed that, correct me if I'm getting
this wrong, that essentially aliens from the Star would come
at the end of the world and pick you up.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Well, you know, it's a great question and I should
have the answer, you know, I can tell you. All
he referenced was the space people did. I'd ever really ask, well,
are they the good space people or no, just like,
oh my god, Star Wars is coming to life. Space
beople are out there, this is us. And he would
refer to it sometimes like the Ashtar Command. There's some

(44:45):
book written about that or something, the Intergalactic Fleet or
some sort of thing. So I can just tell you
because I was so caught up in it and so
excited by that sci fi aspect of it, and no
one was asking those questions. I mean, even when we
bought property down in North Carolina where it was going
to be one of the safe places as the storms
were all going to come in and as the world

(45:06):
is going to be moving towards this grand apocalyptic event
in the western hills and mountains of the Appalachians. Western
North Carolina was going to become beachfront property. So we
had this mountain piece that we were buying and I
remember looking at it and Freddy's looking at the top.
He's like, Yeah, we're gonna build the platforms up there

(45:27):
for the ships to land. And I'm like, yeah, that's
gonna be awesome. And I'm like, now, if I was
thinking like a normal person, like what we're going to
build like plywood platforms for some metallic spaceship. Like, what
is he fucking talking about?

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Right?

Speaker 3 (45:43):
But I'm like, oh, yeah, it's gonna be all right
there on the top of the mountain.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
So are you the one buying all of this? Sorry?

Speaker 3 (45:49):
No, I mean I was largely financing all of it.
In another life, I was a very successful model, right,
So that was all going on. That's where my story
I think captures a lot of people's interests because I
really lived a double life. You know, it's not probably
unlike the tom cruises out there, you know, of where
you you know, you kind of have a very public
image when that, people would think, oh god, I'd love

(46:11):
to have that life, And yet my every day is
being controlled in some fashion. I had to call in,
I had to check in and kind of spend doctor
the way the day went. Because you know, people always think, well, god,
if you were out all the time, you know, that
must have been awesome. And one of the favorite questions is, oh,
why didn't you just leave? Yeah, good question, but that's

(46:34):
that's a question that really informs you that the person
doesn't know what they're talking about. Yeah, And using the
word just really makes it bad. I try to tell
people I said, when you asked that question, it's kind
of like if I came to you and said, you know,
twenty one I was raped and you turned to me
and said, what were you wearing that night, which, by the.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Way, many people have said similar things to me, like
people just don't understand the nuances of power dynamics.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
They really they don't. And I don't fault them because
it's a defense mechanism. I mean, there were times I
took it the heart and it's like what But it's
the same sort of thing. Like during my early conversations
of dropping the cult Baham, you know, I'd have people going, well,
you know, I would never be involved in a cult,
and they would have that or they would just very
innocently look at me and say, so, what was so
weak about you? They got you involved right, right right.

(47:25):
And again it's it's a defense mechanism because what they're
wanting to say to themselves and have me validate, is oh,
that's terrible that happened to you, But just reassure me
that won't happen to me exactly. And of course the
whole point of me having the conversation is not only
could it happen to you, it probably already has happened
to you and you just haven't identified it. Now. You

(47:45):
probably didn't go through what I went through when I'm saying,
but you have had relationship and power dynamous like this
that you've experienced, and you've probably been deeply wounded and
just not really understood.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
It, right or they're on the other side and they're
wounding everyone right right exactly.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
So it's a really interesting kind of thing the way
it's played out for me in this way, and when
it came down to this whole space thing for me,
the way you know, Freddy would present it, it's like,
oh yeah, the space people are going to come down,
and he's the only one talking to them, of course,
but they had the rejuvenation machines or were they going
to lift us out? The planet's going to we believe
in this thing called the poll shift, which is basically like,

(48:20):
oh yeah, Edgar Casey, he was basically plagiarizing EDG. Casey
and like ninety nine percent of the population get wiped out.
There'll be a few safe places, but we were going
to lift it out rejuvenated, you know, schooled and come
back and basically make it heaven on Earth, so to speak.
One of the things that's kind of hilarious is Freddy
was really into being tan, and so in the eighties,

(48:41):
all these tanning machines are going on, we were all
just constantly tanned.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
A picture of them. I barely, yeah, I almost had no.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Features herma tan and I was modeling, which is fine
to be tanned, but but I used to have friends
say like, are you sure you're not going to be
like damaging your skins. I was like blasting my face constantly,
and in my mind, I was thinking, Man, I'm going
to be in the rejuvenation chamber two years. It's like,
I don't have to worry about that, you guys, that
is not an issue. Not an issue for me. Yea.
I traveled constantly. I was on the road probably three

(49:13):
hundred days a year for ten years running. And I
would get on a plane and I'd immediately think, like,
I wish I could tell if on the plane that
this is going to be a safe flight because I've
got a very important role to play on this planet
and they're all safe. Wow.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
That was the kind of mental person I was in,
you know, just thinking that I had this grand role,
and of course you know, it's just all part of
that magical thinking and all that stuff that we really
get caught up. And I tell people all the time,
if I can prove something in the lab, people like,
you know what. But if I tell you all right,
this thing only works if you believe in it, people

(49:53):
are like, oh, I'm in, I'm in now, I want
to know tell me how.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
It works, which is fucked up because that is true
about out certain things. When it comes to placebos, we're
taught that with Speaker Bell, remember, like you can't see
her unless you believe. I mean the frosting in Hook
does an even remember this scene, yes, here where they're
throwing frosted like you can't see it to believe.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
I mean, there are so many fairy tales that were like,
you can't see it unless you believe in it.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
That's right, And you're like, okay, the nothingness and never
ending story.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
I mean, I mean so much of well, I mean
it is right. You know, faith is a very powerful
mechanism and yeah, you know, a power used for good
or bad. Right, That Hook's in our psyche much more
I think than anything else.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, evidence is boring. Yeah, well, we don't need that.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
And now apparently the aliens are here and I'll live
youre in hearing that lately.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
In three days we're supposed to get all the afformation.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Maybe the was right, I mean, I mean I think
that there's some shit, but although.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Although didn't they say that, it's like not, actually, there's
no evidence really of anything.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Of course there's not.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I watched Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan's totally into it.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
I know, I've listened to those episodes and he's like
that of these.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Guys like, oh it the studio Area fifty one. I
worked on the anti gravity machine studio I believe, Yeah, studios,
Yeah exactly, yeah, the Studio fifty one. Yeah yeah. So,
I mean, who knows. It's a it's but my question
if any of that does come out, it's like why now.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah exactly, that would be my question, because they're manipulating
us in a different way now exactly. You know, they're real,
we probably do this.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
It's like okay, or they're just dumb and haven't been coordinating. Well,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Well, clearly they're not aggressive. Otherwise we've been wiped out
by now so oh.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
You mean, why now the aliens. I was thinking, why
now the government?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Oh no, yeah, yeah, well I know, I say, why
now the government telling us about the aliens? I think
the aliens probably have some plan that whatever.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah, I think they're cool.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I don't think they're trying to wipe us out.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Now.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I hope our audience understands that we are not just
talking about aliens. Willy nilly. There are documents that are
being released by the.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Pentagon by the Yeah right now do Pentagon UFOs and
a lot.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Israli, a head of defense, said that they have stop
nuclear war three times.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Excuse me?

Speaker 3 (52:03):
Yeah, yeah, Apparently the ships all come around like during
the nuclear plants or where the foreheads are and they
shut things down.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Well that's nice.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Yeah, so they're looking out for it, thank god. I
doubt they're Auctorian.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Though they're not.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
I checked it. Were the other people in this group
with you equally like charismatic and good.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Looking and well if you think of like a profile
that we would try to target, yes, but that doesn't
mean you wouldn't take someone who was an eager beaver
wanting to be got it. But it was like a
branding mechanism. The idea was that you've gone to a
good school. You are well presented, well spoken, everything that
Freddie had wanted to be. This has been a really
big missing piece for me getting more information about his background.

(52:48):
Not that I have to figure out his backstory, but
it is fascinating. It is interesting to say, like, how
did that come about?

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Totally, totally. It all reminds me a little bit of
Will Allen's story. Are you familiar with him the documentary?
Holy hell?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
You should like, Oh, yeah, no, I do. I have
seen HOLLI how they're all very tan? They actually beautiful. Actually,
when I watched it, I'm like, oh my god, he
looks a lot like Freddy.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Really.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Oh yeah, was Freddy getting surgery too?

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Oh? Five facelifts by the time Wow died. Yeah, he
looked like a freak.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
How old was he when he died mid the late
forties and he died of aids?

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yeah, quick insert here. One question I meant to ask
while we were doing the interview was how the group
stayed together after the leader died, And basically the answer
is that eventually a new leader emerged and he wasn't
as savvy as the original guy, Freddy, but everyone was
so indoctrinated already that he knew how to push the
right buttons and invoke that trauma.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
I've reconnected with some of the ex members and know
it because I escaped in nineteen ninety nine. I figured
out it was a cult around two thousand and one.
So that's a whole nother story because I didn't leave
figuring out what it was. I figured it out later
after going through his PTSD. But then I kind of
went on the attack. I had all this suppressed anger

(53:58):
and resentment. I know, money, and they were living in
a house that I had bought.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
There had business and I read I read you who
gave them like four point five million dollars?

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Oh my god?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
And so yeah, he's barely making ends meet. And I
was living at Fabio's, which is.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
A hilarious part of the Fabio Everyone.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yes, though he helped you, Yeah, when you were leaving,
you you remembered he said something to Bobby is just.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Such a great guy. And what he's revealed to me
looking back in that time, like I arrived and he
knew something really bad had happened, and so he being
very kind of aware like he is, he goes sometimes
you know, that it's not in your place to push someone.
Just let them have space, let them feel safe, and

(54:42):
when it's time and ready, they'll come and talk to me.
And so ially lived at his place for a year.
He never once asked me why I was there. He
never asked me wow. He just completely let me incubate.
And that's how I kind of worked to the PTSD
and eventually started to figure out what had happened.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Because a god, we already thought he was a guy.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
A god, Oh yeah, he's crazy smart. Let's go engineer.
And he is. And he's my stockbroker. He knows stocks,
you know. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, Fabia is amazing.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Is he single? He is?

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Oh interesting, We just say Lola's dating a stockbroker.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Can you talk about how you left?

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Yeah? And I wish I could tell you. I woke
up one night in the middle of the night and said,
oh my god, I think this is really dangerous. It
might be a cult. I should get the hell out
of here. Nothing even close. So it was Midsummer of
nineteen ninety nine, two thousands, when the ship's supposed to
hit the fan, right, I'm still traveling around all over
Europe constantly. So I'm in London, Paris, Milan, and I'm

(55:51):
looking around and like there's no storms going on, no
government's collapsing, no economies crashing. So I'm like, it's nothing else.
The timeline is raw in some way. My critical thinking
is starting to come back slightly right and then very boldly,
and you could say fortunately or unfortunately. I decided to
voice some of those concerns, and of course I got crushed,

(56:14):
kind of like being a blasphemer. So then it became
kind of the modus operendum to save me from myself.
So it was dictated that I would have to move
down to our compound that we had down in North Carolina,
and they started shaving my head so I couldn't model.
I had to be the first one up, the last
one to bed any type of slavelike labor to teach

(56:37):
me humility or anything. Anyone they didn't want to do
I had to do.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
They're like such haters.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
When Freddy was alive, he treated me with kit clubs
and really got me into that generosity mode, like as
long as you keep giving them money, you get a
little freedom here. And so because of those years when
Freddy was alive, I got kind of preferential treatment. So
there's a lot of pent up resentment, jealousy, and the
next ten years was much rougher for me, and it

(57:04):
culminated with this last period of where they were really
coming after me because I was starting to poke holes
in this idea that our great fearless leader might be
fucking wrong, you know, And so that made life very
rough for me. And I was literally and figuratively living
in the doghouse because we had renovated this house and
we had built a garage where we kept the dogs

(57:25):
and we had converted into an office. So I slept
up there with the dogs while they were on But
that's how I was able to escape because we had
this whole phone system and whenever I pick up the
phone in the office, everyone would know and they'd say
who you're on the phone with. And so when I
had to escape, if I used the fax phone, it
didn't set off, and so I was able to actually

(57:47):
escape that way.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
How'd you escape? What'd you fat?

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Well? I just well, no, I got on the phone
and I called a cab. It took me three attempts
to get away, like they caught me twice, but the
third time my driving privilege has been taken away because
once I'd driven myself to the airport and then they
caught me. And so I just had a cab that
was about a mile and a half down the hill
that was meeting me at like two thirty in the morning,
and I had to like stealthily go out like a

(58:12):
prison break and not wake the dogs, hope that no
one would hear me, and then bolt and I just went,
you know, back there six weeks ago, to that same
spot and that you know, they talk about how trauma
stays in the body, and yeah, I've done a decent
amount of work on this, you know, I talked about
a lot. But when I stepped right back on the
I tell you the he B Gv's, I felt it

(58:33):
was like I was right back there. So trauma's very
very real. But you know, each time I went back,
it got better, and it's just always better to face
your demons and avoid them. But it was really that
visceral feeling of that I remember just looking down that
hill and running like thinking they're behind me, because I'd
even forgotten it's on a man made lake and there's

(58:55):
this damn and I remember driving, and I'm like, I
don't even remember that, damn, Like it's all so fuzzy
because I think the trauma was so intense that I
don't have strong memories as I would have thought I
would have. But then when I was coming back from
being up there and I saw it coming from that
point of view, the way I actually had escaped, I'm like,
oh God, I do remember this now because it's completely

(59:18):
out in the open, and I thought, I am so exposed.
There's nothing to hide, no trees, nothing, And I bolted
across that bridge that high speed because I was like,
there's no way I'm coming back this time. So it
was after that that I went into kind of the PTSD.
I hung at Fabio's.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Another quick insert here. So one more thing I wondered
after we did the interview was what the previous escape
attempts were like. So here's what Hoyt told me after
we spoke the first time. So basically, his two failed
attempts involved him getting caught in his New York apartment.
So on his first break, he was living in La
at Fabio's, but was still in communication with a group
and he must have like slipped up somehow and made

(59:54):
the group think that he'd be passing through New York
for a modeling gig, and a couple of the guys
caught him in there. They didn't threaten for us, but
he was so freaked out about being caught that he
was easily convinced that he wasn't supposed to get away.
And then that's when he agreed in quotes to go
to North Carolina to become the living housekeeper. So the
second time he got caught, he had fled North Carolina
in the middle of the night and caught a flight

(01:00:16):
to New York, and he figured they'd never think he
was stupid enough to go back to his same apartment,
so he thought he'd be safe there for a night,
but they flew there immediately and caught him, and this
time they took a more forceful approach. One guy actually
even slept in the doorway of the apartment to make
sure he didn't escape, which is terrifying. They made him
sign a promisory note under dress of course, saying that
he would be responsible for paying five hundred thousand dollars

(01:00:38):
if he left again. And then the third time he left,
when he finally did truly escape in the middle of
the night on July fourth, nineteen ninety nine, a very
fitting date for this episode. He did not go back
to his apartment.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Then I ran into a guy who had left the group.
He lived out here in LA and he left the
group like four years before me. You know, they're no coincidences,
but I lit. He bumped into a friend of her
and said, he goes, hey, you're hoying, aren't you? And
my friend Dara. It's like, oh my god, I'd love
to talk to Dara. And I had to really choose
my words carefully because I had actually come out to

(01:01:11):
California and Dar had left before, and I had pulled
Dar back into the group, and so I was like,
I was just gonna think I'm gonna try to get
him back in, and so I literally had to tell
his friend. I said, tell darr I'm living in LA
and I'm alone, and I'd really like to talk to him.
It took about three weeks. He called me from his therapist.

(01:01:31):
This is my therapist said I should call. I've been
avoiding this, and I'm like, wow, thank god you called.
And so we started talking and he was kind of
in a crazy Livy situation. I had felt like I
had outworn my welcome at Fabio's. He'd been too kind,
and I was kind of needing to talk about this.
So Dar and I moved in together and we for
the first six months just started to deconstruct everything. It's like,

(01:01:54):
remember that happened, that was weird, Like what do you
think was going on there? And it was through that
process that we have finally got to the point where
I remember going, well, you know everyone's been saying this
was a cult. I know it wasn't a cult, but
what do you think it was. He's like, oh, it
wasn't a cult either. I'm like, well, I go, do
you know anything about cult? It's like no, no, I'm like, well,
maybe I should look into a Like I know it's

(01:02:15):
not one, but maybe if I look into it, I'll
find out what it might be like. And so that
was how I found Steve Hassen's book. I remember going
on the Internet and finding the best selling book and
it was just combating cult mind control. And I also
remember reading that you know this guy had been in
the Moonies. I remember thinking, God, I actually remember the

(01:02:37):
Moonies when I was a kid. These bald people in
airports and orange suits and just going, god, how could
you get involved with that? Like to me, like, oh,
that's definitely a cult. And so I was really kind
of dubious whether I should even get it because I said, well,
that no way relates to what I went through. But
it had so many great reviews, I figured, let me
just give it a shot. Maybe I'll just learned something.

(01:03:00):
The first sixty seventy pages was how he had been
indoctrinated and you could have just changed the names, and
I was like, holy shit, wow, And finally I had
the diagnosis, you know, I finally knew like, not only
had I been in a cult, but I had been
in a textbook cult. Like I thought at least maybe
I'd been in a special cult and anything not even

(01:03:21):
specially just textbook and all of that was horrifying. But
it was the beginning of the recovery. And then I eventually,
you know, kind of got my balls back and I
started my voice back, and I actually went on the
attack with the group and then I sued them and
took them down.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
You did, Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Yeah, And then you know, now twenty years later, going
back and visiting some of these people and they're still
caught up in it. Really, you know, I'd say out
of our group of like we were never big. I mean,
it's probably closer to fifty, but with the turnover, maybe
one hundred four maybe five can admit it was a
cult in knows so that word means it can talk
about it. My gosh, everyone else is to on some

(01:04:00):
form of trauma, denial, delusion, avoidance whatever. That is to
me the most tragic part of the story. Yeah. So,
like I was talking to this guy recently and he's
definitely spend doctor this whole thing and saying, you know,
because he's actually hadn't made a pretty good life for
himself and been successful, and it's like, oh, you know,
Frederick is the greatest teacher I've ever had. And I'm like,

(01:04:21):
you know what, I'm not saying there weren't some good
things that happened, because I think it's really important when
you tell these stories, you have to talk about the
good things because everyone's got to know, like, why did
you say totally? So that's a better question rather than
why did you just leave? It'd be like why did
you stay? That's a really important question to answer because
there are things that are really, really potentially positive that

(01:04:43):
the group exposed to you. Whether it's the camaraderie, whether
it's just the sense of purpose, the teamwork, the aspiration
of doing something bigger than yourself, all those things are
really really positive. So he's kind of taken that version
of the whole thing. And I said to him, I
have to look at the end of and I have
to say a huge component of his personality, which is

(01:05:06):
flat out deception. Yeah, I said, he lied about who
he was, his name, his background, his covert drug use,
his covert sexual forays. He got aids. He lied about
that when he was sick and we were changing his
bedsword not knowing that we potentially could have got infected
because he was dishonest. And this guy's response was like, well,

(01:05:30):
he was human. I said, you know what, there's lots
of humans out there that don't behave like that, and
they certainly don't claim to be spiritual leaders. So I said,
I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you
on this one. And I could watch like no one's
pushed back on him. And I wasn't being aggressive at all,
as being very gentle, but I could see no one's
really pushed back on him because he's spoken with the

(01:05:51):
other guys who all support this guy tribe that basically says,
we don't have to look back and admit on some
level we all got taken. Yeah, the key to recovery
is the humility to admit something happened. If you can't
admit that, no healing takes place, and the trauma stays
in place, and it just kind of manifests in other areas.

(01:06:11):
And it's absolutely awful. Witnessing that again two decades later
has been triggering and disturbing and also empowering. And I'm
just grateful I'm not where they are. I hope in
telling the story that maybe some eyes will get opened,
and certainly I think that their people around them might

(01:06:32):
start to go, oh, I think we need to talk
about this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah. I hope the more you tell your story, the
more impact it will have on those people and others.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Yeah. I was talking to someone who actually has gone
through this and it has been on a recovery path,
and they were deciding whether to talk about their experience.
I said, I would never try to convince anyone doing anything,
but I certainly know if nothing gets said, nothing changes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Ooh. I've never heard of public.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
If you talk about it, there's a chance thinks might alter.
So I'm taking my chances. I'm going to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
That's awesome. You're such a good storyteller. I've been enthralled
this entire time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
I know, I forgot we were doing a podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Yeah, that's why I'm in the movie business. I mean,
this experience got me fascinated with telling stories because I
would tell this story and people like, oh my god,
it's something you're in a movie. I'm like, no, wonder.
I like movies so much because I'm literally in one
most for twenty years of my life. And it got
me fascinated with that because it's really how we educate
each other. I mean, you come home, you know, if

(01:07:34):
you're married or with a partner, and you say, oh,
you're not gonna be having them today, and you tell
a story. That's how we communicate, That's how we teach
you to that's how we find a connection and usually
over the tough times. Pain is the most intense bonding component.
If you feel someone can see you and can relate

(01:07:56):
to your pain, that's a much tighter bond. Then let's
just go it can go barty and have a great time.
It's not the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Absolutely, what is not. Please tell that to the men
I date who won't share their pain with me. Give
me maybe Fabi I will share his fame with me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I really liked reading that your mom you got to
make up with her.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Yeah. One of the components of the story that I
feel gets left out, and when I try to do it,
I'm really going to try to incorporate. This is the
ripple effect. Like when you go down this journey, anyone
who cares about you involuntarily it gets dragged on this
journey with you. It's like having a drug attic in
the family in that sense. And so when you are
someone who loves someone and you see them making choices,

(01:08:40):
albeit under influence whatever you may want to the situation
may be, but things that are self destructive and self
sabotaging and you feel powerless to stop them, you get
deeply wounded. So for me in the recovery process, besides
all the homework Guy's doing to try to get my
shit together, so to speak, and answer all those questions,
because you know, not only did I try to have

(01:09:00):
to figure out how to forgive myself, but also communicate
this story to all my friends who are looking at
me like, dude, what the fuck happened? Right? But then
the other side of it, which I never really imagined
to going through it, was seeing how wounded they were
all from this experience. Yeah, And that's just something I
had to live with because I can't force them to

(01:09:23):
heal that part, and so much of the focus is like,
I just want to know you're okay. What you want
to do again, I'm like, listen, I'm doing okay. How
are you doing? What do you have? Fine? Fine? And
I can see the wound. And that part's hard because
it's counterintuitive in the sense that when someone goes through
something the more elaborate side of the equation, everyone carries

(01:09:44):
so much guilt thinking they should have done something, maybe
more whatever. And I try to tell the story and
communicate with them to say there's nothing you could do
on we were all way above our pay grade, and
deal with the saying thing, none of us, what the
fuck was going? Yeah, none of us, So it's no
one's fault. Yeah, But I still can't do that healing
for them, and that's the part that's hard, and that

(01:10:07):
ripple effect, I think is really important because people like
when we talk about these cultic relationships and we talk
about the severe ones, like the ones that we have
gone through, when you then count in the ripple effect,
I mean, this is having a monstrous effect on our
whole psychea of our whole society, and so this is
not going to go away. This is something that really

(01:10:27):
needs to be dealt with. I'm trying very consciously to
put in certain things, like at Princeton and other schools
in the curriculum to teach courses on mind control and
influence techniques and manipulation tactics, just kind of common sense
things that you could teach a kid even at thirteen fourteen,
so they have a couple of red flags available to
them that when they're experiencing someone kind of sweeping them

(01:10:49):
off their feed and being so complimentary and making them
feel good really fast, go oh, this could be a manipulation.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
The problem is narcissists are so fun. It's like that
should be the warning if anybody's making you have way
too much fun, way too fast.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
Yeah yeah, but no one tells you. And the other
side of it is like my control works on everyone,
but you have to be receptive. So the only time
you're really receptive usually is if you're in some mode
of seeking answers on some level, and if you encounter
a person or a group that, from your point of
view seems to be giving you those answers, that seems
like a great thing. So I tell people when you're

(01:11:28):
in that mode of seeking, everyone's like, oh, that's awesome, dude,
it's so great asking the bigger questions. Why am I year?
What's it all about? Like, that's all great, but you
should also be saying, now, be careful. Though it's awesome,
you're you're in that phase. Awesome, but every manipulator out
there will see you as a target and they'll come
after you, So be careful.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
No one say sded, No one says that, And I
think that's a really important component. And until we make
this kind of more common language of all of ours,
we're all just so vulnerable all the time, and we're
kind of predisposed as humans to follow the nature of
us as humans there we're kind of social creatures. We

(01:12:08):
want to get along, to get along, and we just
want to be part of the pack. And so it's
just kind of a DNA thing that if you want
to become truly independent and become maybe a leader of
your own life or others, you have to really work
against that preprogramming. And we don't realize that how hardwired
it is to follow, Which is not to say we
shouldn't be a part of groups, not we just shouldn't

(01:12:29):
devote ourselves to one and one only that controls our
entire lives well exactly. And it's just acknowledging that there
is some predisposition there that you need to be aware
of that can potentially self sabotage, and like anything, if
you know about it, you can have a fighting chance
to work with it. But if it's just unconscious, it's
the same sort of thing why people find unhealthy relationships.

(01:12:50):
It's familiar even though it's unhealthy. I just, oh, I
know what this feels like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
It feels like what I grew up with, and that
feels safe, no matter how unsafe it is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Yeah, I mean, so all those dynamics I think are
really important to and that's why these stories I think
are great teaching tools. Because of the extreme nature of them,
it's sometimes easier to see the more subtle version in
your own life. And that's why I think it's important,
like the three of us, we tell our stories because
they potentially can awaken people to say, oh wait, that

(01:13:20):
actually is very very relatable to me and it really
resonates with something. But it's just a more subtle version
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Right, Well, this is awesome. Do you have any social
media you would like to share?

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
Well, I'm on Instagram at hot rich, I'm on Facebook,
but yeah, I'm not a huge social media person, but
I eventually want to do some public speaking and that
sort of thing and kind of talk to kids and
build some awareness in these type of things. I always
love doing the movies and all that sort of thing.
I really love, but this is kind of my pet project.

(01:13:55):
I get to work on cases where I help families
get their kids out of cultic situations. That's been one
of the most healing things that I've now potentially been
a resource for others finding healing and finding their family. Again, Listen,
every family's got their issues and there's dysfunction. But when
you find a common enemy, boy, the family can really
step up sometimes. And I've watched it and witnessed it

(01:14:17):
and it is a beautiful thing to kind of see.
And when you watch someone's critical thinking come back. The
way I describe it is when you get indoctrinated, it's
like a pilot light that gets turned down really really low,
but it never goes out right. Kind of like Horton
hears the Who, it's all the people trying to find
some way to connect to this person. They get them
information they're not getting in this kind of secluded group thing,

(01:14:38):
you know. And so it's like all the Who's trying
to find like, what's the sound that's going to make
Horton here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
That understand this reference.

Speaker 6 (01:14:45):
I understand it's the yop, right, you don't know what
that little yop is going to be, and the little
who goes yop and we are here, we are here.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
That's what you're trying, doctor. Yeah, but it's exactly like that.
You're trying to find what's it going to be? And
when the critical thinking kicks back in, boy, you pull
yourself out, it's like all of a sudden, it's like
the fog parts and the clarity comes back and the
light goes back on. It's incredible to see. So that's

(01:15:17):
been remarkable. And actually I've done some cases with Steve
act I read his book and then when he did
the twenty fifth anniversary. I'm now one of the stories
in the book. So it's called a full circle like
the book that got me out. Actually, I'm now part
of that and I get to actually work with the
guy who's you know, one of the best out there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
So amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
It's an incredible, you know, journey I've been on. And
then I'm very grateful.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
Well, keep up the good work.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yeah, and thanks so much for coming on.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
No, my pleasure. I hope I didn't talk your ear off. Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
No, it's great, Its perfect, perfect, My ear is on.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Okay, Well here we are, so Megan, it's time for
the question. I'm ready. Do you think that you would
join Eternal Values?

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Tell me more.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Well, a handsome young model type taking me to clubs
and telling me I'm awesome and giving me alcohol underage
and partying is all I need to believe that you're
from a different planet. No, I see it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
Holy shit. When I was like nineteen, all I wanted
was to go to cool clubs. Yeah, that was like
my goal in life.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yeah, and god knows, I was like going to en
Cahoots literally in Wichita on like eighteen night. Imagine going
to Studio fifty four.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Oh my god, I was living here and the cool
club was what was it called do was like the
sort of the douchier one. I feel like, well they
both were, but hi.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
I was a mess.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Hide. It was like Paris Hilton goes to hide or
she had at least like a couple of years before
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Do you remember my house?

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
I think so? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Wait was that on like right off of Hollywood?

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
Bro?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
All the DJs, it was like Steve Aoki thought he
was so cool? Who else I can't remember. It was
like bands and DJs, and I would have followed any
of them if they played at music festival. I would
have done anything they said. It didn't fucking matter. Would
have followed, would have joined those golds, which brings us
right back to the band discussion. Yep, and how people

(01:17:30):
in bands have too much power. Yeah, so it sounds
like we both would join internal values.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
I'm still so curious about the like about how the
conversations began over. I wish I had like recordings of
these conversations, you know, where the indoctrination's.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Like slowly beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
It doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
First, it's just so fast planet you guys, it's no
big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
It's a star, Megan so smarty.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Fuck yeah, a star a star. But you know how
how yeah, how does the conversation go from I'm from
a star and so are you to now give me
all of your money?

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Or how does it go from I like astrology and
Eastern philosophy is interesting too, I'm communicating with the light
people right, Well, it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Does, and I can totally see myself following it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
So yeah, yeah, yep, good, well, glad we're in agreement
on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Although I don't think I would have been as patient
as why it was with the after he died, when
it was no longer fun and just living in the
middle of nowhere and being abused. I think he was
being really loyal, and even my most loyal tendency is
a big well Studio fifty four guy died, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
But if you believed it, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Believe that's I guess my my thing. Like I still
think even if I believed it, I would be like, well,
this isn't fun anymore, so I'll.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
Just like not.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
But that's the thing. That's exactly the frog in the
hot water, because we would never join point.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
You know, I'm actually saying, like, I'm impressed with his
ability to have such little ego because he was a supermodel,
and he was a really powerful person, and he cared
so much about this group that he was basically abused.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Yeah about Yeah, he was. He was. Well, I'm so
glad he got out of it. He seems to be thriving.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
We love him. We're gonna hang love some Hoyt. Also
love the name Hoyt. Never heard that name before.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
It's a cool name.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Yeah. Okay, everyone, Well, thank you for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
Yeah, thank you for listening. Guys. We hope you have
a great week and remember to follow your gut, watch
out for red flags, and never ever trust me. Oh
my

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}REWIND: Hoyt Richards - From Supermodel to Cult Member