June 4, 2020 • 17 mins
George Noory and UFO researcher Nigel Watson discuss famous stories of alleged alien abductions, like the Betty and Barney Hill and Travis Walton cases, and if aliens could be abducting humans to conduct breeding experiments.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeart Radio and welcome back. We're back with Nigel Watson
as we talked about his latest work, Captured by Aliens. Nigel,
what is it about the Benny and Barney hillcase that
convinces you that this might be real? Um? Well, they
(00:21):
didn't and didn't contradict themselves, and it was something that
couldn't have been staged because you know, it is being
followed twenty four hours or something, and I don't think
it could have been staged. The only thing is that
wherever it was a product of our imagination, you know,
(00:44):
something puts on. That night, they'd seen the USO following
them and when they stopped the card to have a
look a better look at it, Barney Hill grabbed a
pair of binoculars and went out of the car to
get a better view of the UFO and he said
he saw a craft with a row of windows in
(01:07):
it and he could see occupants inside the flame saucer.
One of them looked like the leader and they looked
really sinister, you know, like compared him to some and
that see soldier or something like a stormtrooper or something. Yeah,
and that really frightened him, and I think he was
(01:30):
frightened that they would land and capture them. So I
think it's at that moment he kind of ran back
to the car and drove off really fast, and that's
when they kind of got lost and the net netz
thing and over kind of home. But like the workout,
(01:52):
that was like about two hours this in time, and
that's when you know, Betty's night mayors kind of fill
in some of those gaps and then it's not really
until under hypnotic regression they really get to the bottom
of what might have happened. It's interesting they're one of
the craft itself that they're separated, and that since the
(02:20):
way always happened with abductees, if there are two, they
always seem to get separated. So it's how to collaborate
their stories really, other than that they entered and left
and machine like with with Betty they inserted a needle
into a navel and with Bernie they tried taking his
(02:46):
first teeth out. So they were fascinated by his teeth,
weren't they. Yeah, they're kind of they were like cures
and deficient people. And the more of them say and
also we didn't look like the typical Grays of euthology nowadays,
(03:06):
and they with them. Betty, she actually had a discussion
with them, and she saw the famous star chart on
the wall, and she even tried taking a book as
a souvenir, but it's taken off her. And so that's
(03:28):
another problem with people who who are abducted. They're never
allowed to take anything away from the ship. And that's
a much like you know, ancient fairies stories with people
enter fairyland and then they never are able to take
anything out of that land to prove the been there.
(03:50):
So I think it's well, it was literally the stuff
of nightmares. And also um Benjamin Simon felt that a
lot of her problems were caused by racial tension that
(04:11):
mister and missus average they were an inter racial couple,
which was quite unusual for the early sixties. And Peter
Rogerson equates the UFO to almost being like a symbol
of a pirate ship and the fear of being taken
(04:35):
away an abducting sort of repercussions of and echoes of,
you know, slavery in the past. You know that you
never Mayflower Pilgrims represented, you know, an exploring culture into
(04:58):
into the United States, and in a way, the spaceship
represents another extraw in civilization that might you know, take
over their own country and that sort of echoes of um,
you know, invasion as well, and a lot of times too, Nigel,
(05:21):
when something like this happens, Yeah, you've got to ask
the question who benefits? And the Hills didn't benefit from
going public with this at all. This was not in
their best interest to do this, was it. No, so
well thought of them, their community. I think that she
(05:42):
was a social worker and Bernie had been involved with
the community Action program. Yeah, they were well liked. People
liked them, Yeah, well liked they were. They worked for
different associations, were quite They weren't like shut off from
(06:08):
society and self fantasy prone in that sense. And I
suppose in a way because of Barney wanted to keep
it quiet. But I think Betty was far more outgoing
person and in a way and because of the interest
in their case, I think she was willing and able
(06:30):
to you know, talk about it in public and go
on TV and present it in a credible way. And
you know, even though Barney was reluctant about all this,
he did kind of support it. He did support her
claim through his own I notot it regretting, So in
(06:52):
a way, it's just own human reactions to whatever happened
to them. And I think as well, at that time,
the Soviet Union had just started nuclear testing and that
(07:13):
was something high in people's minds. But it's interesting that
when Betty got home the early hours of the morning,
she was very fearful about radio activity. And I think
they cleaned the car out and did different things because
they're so worried. And I think that's one reason why
(07:36):
she reported the UFO site into the nearby Air Force space,
because she was worried about you know, that we'd been
contaminated by radiation. Well in those days too, they didn't
know who to report UF four cases too, so going
to the Air Force was probably the right thing. Yeah,
(07:59):
and uh so, you know, it was a hard thing
to know about. And I think she also ran her
sister because her sister had seen seen her, you phoe
of a pass, so she'd got some advice of her.
I think she ended up going to a library the
same way I did, and she'd got to be addresser
(08:21):
Donald Kehoe, and that's how a case got to be
investigated by nightcap Um. But I think she's a sort
of person who was inquisitive, So I think she kind
of read a lot of Uphoe books and and contacted
different people to find out more. So, um, you know,
(08:42):
I think it's interesting where you know, she got to
the right people really so up and won A. Webb
wrote quite an extensive report on her case, which wasn't
really I don't think it was really out until about
nineteen sixty five, and that also had a lot of
(09:07):
references to South American cases, particularly Anthony villas BoA's case
that he he gives about five or six pages too,
because he thinks it seems very similar to the Hill
case with Villa spoas he he Um had aliens who
(09:34):
pointed to the sky and rented themselves, implying them they
weren't from this planet. So in a way that was
a bit like the equivalent of Betty Hills star map,
that they reference themselves to something extraterrestrial, you know, rather
than something more mundane. And also the fact that he
(09:58):
like the dog One tribe, Haddam, the Dogone tribe would
point to the Serious star system for example. Yeah, so
in a way these were very similar cases that were
spread by continents separate continents, but you know, it's possible
(10:19):
the Hills. You might have heard a bit about that
case through Road to Where, but I think it the
really suppose case was kept in the background for quite
a while, and then that got publicity in nineteen sixty five,
really in the English speaking world, about the same time
(10:41):
as the Bettine Brownie Hill Came case became well known
as well. Those in a way that kind of broke
down the barrier to accepting abductions and by more serious authology.
What other cases did you look at, Nigel that captured
you interest? Um, well, I looked at there's some Batty
(11:04):
Anderson case and the cases are evolved after the Hill case,
and also there's a Travis Wilton case as well, you
know famously. Yeah, Fire in the Sky. Yeah, it's a
very good film because I think it solves balances some
(11:27):
skeptical viewpoints as well as his you know, kind of
horrifying encounter. And I think that's probably one of the
better alien abduction moves ever made. And was that case not?
He was missing for about a week rather than two
two hours, and you know, we still don't really know
(11:52):
what went on and not such a long period of
time on bother spacecraft. But his case seems a bit
more or horrifying than the what the Hills went through.
And of course cases that came up in the eighties
and nineties, I think we're more weren't so much focused
(12:17):
on particular people, but more the investigators like Bud Hopkins
and John Mack and David Jacobs, we kind of plotted
more of the characteristics of you know, maybe a hundred
or so abduction cases rather than focus on particular instances,
(12:38):
so that they kind of established such things as missing
time and implants and being floated up to a spaceship
and the kind of things that are accepted in new
fology now. And it's quite interesting other cases after the Hill,
(13:00):
really those people being floated up to flying sources like
Travis Wolton, how Travis was or or even floated through
windows or or walls to go to USOS with Anti
tny O Villa Spoas and the Hills, they were both
(13:24):
sort of dragged one ceremoniously into the craft, so they
were kind of like low, low tech versions of the
more modern UFOs. What fascinates you about all these cases
because there's a breeding program under way with this too,
isn't there. Yeah, there was a sort particularly with villaspoas
(13:47):
m it was kind of forced twelve m intercourse with
a space woman. I was quite surprised to learn though
that some Brazilion in their sigators went back to his
hometown and one of the locals of New Antonio said
(14:08):
that the space woman was very ugly, whereas are the
reports of it that I've seen before is that she
was a kind of beautiful set sductive alien woman. So
a bit of a surprise that apparently she was ugly,
(14:29):
And you know, that just shows how things get repeated
in the literature until you kind of go back to
the source and find out what else has gone on.
So in a way, that kind of undermines the idea
that it was some sort of male fantasy, because you know,
whould admit to that with an ugly person in a way,
(14:53):
So that a different perspective on that case. But it
also seems like they were used in for a breeding
program and with the betting barning. Okay, so we're kind
of interested in their reproductive organs, and you know, it
(15:16):
seems like the alien seemed to ever a deep interest
in how we breed and well, do you think that
they want knowledge of our breeding program for themselves or
to replace us on this planet. Well, it seems to
be a mixture of them wanting to breeds with us
(15:38):
to create hybrids as those This comes from like the
concept of way back when people believe there's life on Mars,
they always thought the Martians would come and invade the
Earth because there they had a lack of water and
resources and they would die out. So we're needed to
(16:01):
come and invade here and perhaps even breed with us
to make stronger stock. And in a way, that seems
to be what people think about the alien breeding program,
that we want to come here to either revitalize buying
alien stock of a for one, to create an entirely
(16:27):
new hybrids to take over the planet. But it's really
hard to say, really because you know, some of it,
I think, particularly some of John Matt's cases are probably
more fantasy unreal. But it has led to people, you know,
speculating about what any alien agenda might be. But I said,
(16:52):
another thing with the skeptical point of view is the
fact that there the techniques seems to be quite crude. Really,
Like people said oh, why don't let just in a
break into a medical laboratory and still you know, samples
and things like you know why why um why plague
(17:14):
and rape people you know in such yourselves. It's it's
it's bizarre. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every
weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to
Coast am dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeart Radio and welcome back. We're back with Nigel Watson
as we talked about his latest work, Captured by Aliens. Nigel,
what is it about the Benny and Barney hillcase that
convinces you that this might be real? Um? Well, they
(00:21):
didn't and didn't contradict themselves, and it was something that
couldn't have been staged because you know, it is being
followed twenty four hours or something, and I don't think
it could have been staged. The only thing is that
wherever it was a product of our imagination, you know,
(00:44):
something puts on. That night, they'd seen the USO following
them and when they stopped the card to have a
look a better look at it, Barney Hill grabbed a
pair of binoculars and went out of the car to
get a better view of the UFO and he said
he saw a craft with a row of windows in
(01:07):
it and he could see occupants inside the flame saucer.
One of them looked like the leader and they looked
really sinister, you know, like compared him to some and
that see soldier or something like a stormtrooper or something. Yeah,
and that really frightened him, and I think he was
(01:30):
frightened that they would land and capture them. So I
think it's at that moment he kind of ran back
to the car and drove off really fast, and that's
when they kind of got lost and the net netz
thing and over kind of home. But like the workout,
(01:52):
that was like about two hours this in time, and
that's when you know, Betty's night mayors kind of fill
in some of those gaps and then it's not really
until under hypnotic regression they really get to the bottom
of what might have happened. It's interesting they're one of
the craft itself that they're separated, and that since the
(02:20):
way always happened with abductees, if there are two, they
always seem to get separated. So it's how to collaborate
their stories really, other than that they entered and left
and machine like with with Betty they inserted a needle
into a navel and with Bernie they tried taking his
(02:46):
first teeth out. So they were fascinated by his teeth,
weren't they. Yeah, they're kind of they were like cures
and deficient people. And the more of them say and
also we didn't look like the typical Grays of euthology nowadays,
(03:06):
and they with them. Betty, she actually had a discussion
with them, and she saw the famous star chart on
the wall, and she even tried taking a book as
a souvenir, but it's taken off her. And so that's
(03:28):
another problem with people who who are abducted. They're never
allowed to take anything away from the ship. And that's
a much like you know, ancient fairies stories with people
enter fairyland and then they never are able to take
anything out of that land to prove the been there.
(03:50):
So I think it's well, it was literally the stuff
of nightmares. And also um Benjamin Simon felt that a
lot of her problems were caused by racial tension that
(04:11):
mister and missus average they were an inter racial couple,
which was quite unusual for the early sixties. And Peter
Rogerson equates the UFO to almost being like a symbol
of a pirate ship and the fear of being taken
(04:35):
away an abducting sort of repercussions of and echoes of,
you know, slavery in the past. You know that you
never Mayflower Pilgrims represented, you know, an exploring culture into
(04:58):
into the United States, and in a way, the spaceship
represents another extraw in civilization that might you know, take
over their own country and that sort of echoes of um,
you know, invasion as well, and a lot of times too, Nigel,
(05:21):
when something like this happens, Yeah, you've got to ask
the question who benefits? And the Hills didn't benefit from
going public with this at all. This was not in
their best interest to do this, was it. No, so
well thought of them, their community. I think that she
(05:42):
was a social worker and Bernie had been involved with
the community Action program. Yeah, they were well liked. People
liked them, Yeah, well liked they were. They worked for
different associations, were quite They weren't like shut off from
(06:08):
society and self fantasy prone in that sense. And I
suppose in a way because of Barney wanted to keep
it quiet. But I think Betty was far more outgoing
person and in a way and because of the interest
in their case, I think she was willing and able
(06:30):
to you know, talk about it in public and go
on TV and present it in a credible way. And
you know, even though Barney was reluctant about all this,
he did kind of support it. He did support her
claim through his own I notot it regretting, So in
(06:52):
a way, it's just own human reactions to whatever happened
to them. And I think as well, at that time,
the Soviet Union had just started nuclear testing and that
(07:13):
was something high in people's minds. But it's interesting that
when Betty got home the early hours of the morning,
she was very fearful about radio activity. And I think
they cleaned the car out and did different things because
they're so worried. And I think that's one reason why
(07:36):
she reported the UFO site into the nearby Air Force space,
because she was worried about you know, that we'd been
contaminated by radiation. Well in those days too, they didn't
know who to report UF four cases too, so going
to the Air Force was probably the right thing. Yeah,
(07:59):
and uh so, you know, it was a hard thing
to know about. And I think she also ran her
sister because her sister had seen seen her, you phoe
of a pass, so she'd got some advice of her.
I think she ended up going to a library the
same way I did, and she'd got to be addresser
(08:21):
Donald Kehoe, and that's how a case got to be
investigated by nightcap Um. But I think she's a sort
of person who was inquisitive, So I think she kind
of read a lot of Uphoe books and and contacted
different people to find out more. So, um, you know,
(08:42):
I think it's interesting where you know, she got to
the right people really so up and won A. Webb
wrote quite an extensive report on her case, which wasn't
really I don't think it was really out until about
nineteen sixty five, and that also had a lot of
(09:07):
references to South American cases, particularly Anthony villas BoA's case
that he he gives about five or six pages too,
because he thinks it seems very similar to the Hill
case with Villa spoas he he Um had aliens who
(09:34):
pointed to the sky and rented themselves, implying them they
weren't from this planet. So in a way that was
a bit like the equivalent of Betty Hills star map,
that they reference themselves to something extraterrestrial, you know, rather
than something more mundane. And also the fact that he
(09:58):
like the dog One tribe, Haddam, the Dogone tribe would
point to the Serious star system for example. Yeah, so
in a way these were very similar cases that were
spread by continents separate continents, but you know, it's possible
(10:19):
the Hills. You might have heard a bit about that
case through Road to Where, but I think it the
really suppose case was kept in the background for quite
a while, and then that got publicity in nineteen sixty five,
really in the English speaking world, about the same time
(10:41):
as the Bettine Brownie Hill Came case became well known
as well. Those in a way that kind of broke
down the barrier to accepting abductions and by more serious authology.
What other cases did you look at, Nigel that captured
you interest? Um, well, I looked at there's some Batty
(11:04):
Anderson case and the cases are evolved after the Hill case,
and also there's a Travis Wilton case as well, you
know famously. Yeah, Fire in the Sky. Yeah, it's a
very good film because I think it solves balances some
(11:27):
skeptical viewpoints as well as his you know, kind of
horrifying encounter. And I think that's probably one of the
better alien abduction moves ever made. And was that case not?
He was missing for about a week rather than two
two hours, and you know, we still don't really know
(11:52):
what went on and not such a long period of
time on bother spacecraft. But his case seems a bit
more or horrifying than the what the Hills went through.
And of course cases that came up in the eighties
and nineties, I think we're more weren't so much focused
(12:17):
on particular people, but more the investigators like Bud Hopkins
and John Mack and David Jacobs, we kind of plotted
more of the characteristics of you know, maybe a hundred
or so abduction cases rather than focus on particular instances,
(12:38):
so that they kind of established such things as missing
time and implants and being floated up to a spaceship
and the kind of things that are accepted in new
fology now. And it's quite interesting other cases after the Hill,
(13:00):
really those people being floated up to flying sources like
Travis Wolton, how Travis was or or even floated through
windows or or walls to go to USOS with Anti
tny O Villa Spoas and the Hills, they were both
(13:24):
sort of dragged one ceremoniously into the craft, so they
were kind of like low, low tech versions of the
more modern UFOs. What fascinates you about all these cases
because there's a breeding program under way with this too,
isn't there. Yeah, there was a sort particularly with villaspoas
(13:47):
m it was kind of forced twelve m intercourse with
a space woman. I was quite surprised to learn though
that some Brazilion in their sigators went back to his
hometown and one of the locals of New Antonio said
(14:08):
that the space woman was very ugly, whereas are the
reports of it that I've seen before is that she
was a kind of beautiful set sductive alien woman. So
a bit of a surprise that apparently she was ugly,
(14:29):
And you know, that just shows how things get repeated
in the literature until you kind of go back to
the source and find out what else has gone on.
So in a way, that kind of undermines the idea
that it was some sort of male fantasy, because you know,
whould admit to that with an ugly person in a way,
(14:53):
So that a different perspective on that case. But it
also seems like they were used in for a breeding
program and with the betting barning. Okay, so we're kind
of interested in their reproductive organs, and you know, it
(15:16):
seems like the alien seemed to ever a deep interest
in how we breed and well, do you think that
they want knowledge of our breeding program for themselves or
to replace us on this planet. Well, it seems to
be a mixture of them wanting to breeds with us
(15:38):
to create hybrids as those This comes from like the
concept of way back when people believe there's life on Mars,
they always thought the Martians would come and invade the
Earth because there they had a lack of water and
resources and they would die out. So we're needed to
(16:01):
come and invade here and perhaps even breed with us
to make stronger stock. And in a way, that seems
to be what people think about the alien breeding program,
that we want to come here to either revitalize buying
alien stock of a for one, to create an entirely
(16:27):
new hybrids to take over the planet. But it's really
hard to say, really because you know, some of it,
I think, particularly some of John Matt's cases are probably
more fantasy unreal. But it has led to people, you know,
speculating about what any alien agenda might be. But I said,
(16:52):
another thing with the skeptical point of view is the
fact that there the techniques seems to be quite crude. Really,
Like people said oh, why don't let just in a
break into a medical laboratory and still you know, samples
and things like you know why why um why plague
(17:14):
and rape people you know in such yourselves. It's it's
it's bizarre. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every
weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to
Coast am dot com for more
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