Just Say No To The DSO

Just Say No To The DSO

Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of selling a practice to a DSO and why this isn't as good as it sounds, or the only option for successful dentists to have a thriving practice. Come and listen for the years of experience inside dentistry, as well as medicine, that have led to their logical arguments and stay for additional audience and listener feedback. Questions you’d like addressed live in future episodes can be sent to: questions@justsaynotothedso.com Let's start the discussion on how to save the future of the Dental Industry.

Episodes

A Conversation With The Dental Banker Bob Affleck

February 5, 2026 • 66 mins
In this conversation, Bob Affleck shares his extensive experience in the dental industry, discussing the implications of selling dental practices to DSOs. He highlights the challenges and regrets many dentists face after selling, particularly regarding autonomy and financial expectations. The discussion also covers the importance of leadership and business acumen for young dentists preparing them for practice ownership. Overall, th...
Mark as Played

Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Blake Maxfield

January 14, 2026 • 65 mins
Nate sits down with Dr. Blake Maxfield on this amazing interview with a practicing doctor who went through the entire courting and recruitment process where he almost signed the dotted line for a DSO to purchase his practice. At the last minute, something didn't feel right and he backed out. Because he listened to his gut (and his wife) things are infinitely better in his life and current practice is booming. 
Mark as Played

The Great Disappearing Trick: DSO Equity

January 7, 2026 • 22 mins
In this episode, hosts Bob and Nate delve into the myths surrounding DSOs, particularly focusing on the allure of DSO equity. They discuss the reality of ownership structures, the dilution of shares, and the potential pitfalls of believing in inflated equity promises. The conversation emphasizes the importance of maintaining control over one's practice and making informed decisions about practice transitions.
Mark as Played

When Are You The Partner...Or The One Being Taken Advantage Of With Dr. Maksim Montatskiy

December 10, 2025 • 40 mins
In this conversation, Dr. Maksim Montatskiy sits down with Bob and Nate to discuss the complexities of partnerships, particularly focusing on the value and decision-making dynamics involved. He expresses concerns about the nature of partnerships where he feels more like a paying associate than an equal partner, questioning the benefits and decision-making power he holds within these collaborations.

Mark as Played

Too Big to Sell: Myth vs Reality

November 14, 2025 • 25 mins
The conversation explores the myth surrounding the belief that dental practices are too large to sell to private buyers. It delves into the origins of this misconception and its impact on the dental community, emphasizing that size should not deter practice owners from considering private buyers.
Mark as Played

Practice Transition Advice with Dan and Aaron Lewis

October 30, 2025 • 73 mins
In this conversation, Nate speaks with Dan and Aaron Lewis about the complexities of dental practice transitions, particularly focusing on the implications of selling to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They discuss the emotional aspects of practice transitions, the financial realities of selling to DSOs versus maintaining private practice, and the importance of relationships in the dental industry. The Lewis family emphasizes ...
Mark as Played

A Very Important Math Lesson

October 17, 2025 • 28 mins
Bob and Nate are back to discuss the common misconception that DSOs pay more for dental practices than private buyers and they are bringing receipts. They delve into the concept of EBITDA, explaining its significance in practice valuation and how it impacts the financial outcomes for practice owners. Through a hypothetical example, they illustrate the true costs associated with selling to a DSO, revealing that many dentists may end...
Mark as Played

Season 4 Episode 6 - Listener Question: Practice Transition Walkthrough

September 7, 2025 • 21 mins
In this episode of 'Just Say No to the DSO', hosts Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning dental practices, particularly for those with multiple locations. They address listener questions about ownership options, financing, and the importance of goodwill in practice valuation. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear pathways to ownership and the potential pitfalls of seller financing, while also exploring str...
Mark as Played

Season 4 Episode 5 - The Art of Transitioning Your Dental Practice

August 25, 2025 • 22 mins
Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning a dental practice without selling to a DSO. They explore the concept of a walk away sale, addressing common uncertainties and fears among practice owners. The conversation also debunks prevalent myths about the dental market, particularly regarding younger dentists' willingness to own practices and the availability of financing for buyers. The hosts emphasize the importance of ...
Mark as Played

Season 4 Episode 4 - Embracing Uncertainty: The Reality of Dental Practice Transitions

August 15, 2025 • 34 mins
In this conversation, Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning a dental practice, particularly focusing on the implications of selling to a DSO versus bringing on an associate. They explore the emotional and financial uncertainties that dentists face when considering their exit strategies, emphasizing the importance of planning and understanding the realities of practice management. The discussion highlights the pros ...
Mark as Played

Special Episode - You Are The Brand with Steven J Anderson

August 8, 2025 • 53 mins
In this conversation, Bob Spiel and Steven J Anderson delve into the evolving landscape of dentistry, particularly focusing on the impact of Dental Service Organizations (DSOs) on the profession. They discuss the importance of grounding oneself in key principles before making decisions, the necessity of understanding one's market, and the significance of mastering patient interactions. The conversation emphasizes the need for denti...
Mark as Played

Season 4 Episode 3 - The Risks of Selling Your Practice

August 2, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode, Bob and Nate discuss the evolving landscape of dental service organizations (DSOs) and the implications for private practice owners. They explore the risks associated with selling to DSOs, the changing nature of DSO offers, and the importance of retaining control over one's practice. The conversation highlights the historical context of DSO contracts, the value of dentists in practice ownership, and the potential p...
Mark as Played

Season 4 Episode 2 - The DSO Dilemma: A Cautionary Tale

July 21, 2025 • 28 mins
Bob and Nate continue discussing the implications of selling dental practices to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They argue that selling to a DSO can lead to financial loss and loss of control for dentists. The conversation highlights the hype surrounding DSOs, the influence of celebrity endorsements, and the pressure tactics used to encourage practice sales. The hosts emphasize the importance of maintaining ownership and the ...
Mark as Played

Season 4 Episode 1 - Navigating the Dental Landscape: Ownership vs. DSO

July 16, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode of 'Just Say No to the DSO', hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams discuss the implications of the DSO movement in dentistry. They emphasize the importance of private practice ownership, the challenges faced by dental practice owners, and the impact of insurance and government intervention on the industry. The conversation highlights the benefits of maintaining control over one's practice and the potential pitfalls of s...
Mark as Played

Season 3 Episode 16 - Away Interview With Gary Bird

June 30, 2025 • 92 mins
Nate ventures out into the wilderness and is guest with Gary Bird for today's episode. This is a collabortive project and highlights the great being done to further the conversation around dentistry and it's future. 


For those not familiar, Gary Bird is the founding owner of SMC National, the dental industry’s top-rated marketing partner chosen by more than 60,000 dental professionals. A recognized thought leader, Gary hosts the pop...
Mark as Played

Season 3 Episode 15 - Dr Lou Berman Interview

June 20, 2025 • 43 mins
In this inspiring conversation, Bob and Dr. Lou Berman delve into the complexities of the DSO landscape, particularly within the field of endodontics. They discuss the financial implications of joining a DSO, the role of key opinion leaders in shaping the industry, and the impact of corporate models on patient care. Dr. Berman shares his insights from over 41 years in the field, emphasizing the importance of maintaining control ove...
Mark as Played

Season 3 Episode 14 - Dr Mila and Daniel Cohen Interview

June 16, 2025 • 41 mins
In this conversation, Bob hosts Daniel and Mila Cohen, who share their journey of building a successful independent dental practice. They discuss the challenges and rewards of partnership, the importance of defining roles, and the strategies they implemented to ensure effective management and accountability within their practice. The conversation highlights the significance of communication, utilizing resources, and the need for cl...
Mark as Played

Season 3 Episode 13 - Dr Jill Tanzi and Dr Kristine Grazioso Interview

May 26, 2025 • 36 mins
We are in for a double treat today as Bob interviews two incredible dentists, Dr Jill Tanzi and Dr Kristine Grazioso. Not only are we staying on the east coast for this episode, both of these amazing practitioners are passionate about dentistry and helping the patient get the best care. They are board and founding members of the Alliance for Independent Dentists, a nationwide group of volunteer dentists committed to educating denti...
Mark as Played

Season 3 Episode 12 - Dr Eric Block Interview

May 13, 2025 • 25 mins
Bob is back and rolling with another great guest. We are headed to the east coast, just outside of Boston with Dr Eric Block. Dr. Block is a member of the American Dental Association, the Massachusetts Dental Society, and the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and is a Fellow of the International Congress of Oral Implantologists. These type of credentials make him a perfect candidate to be courted by several major DSOs who are ...
Mark as Played

Season 3 Episode 11 - Dr. Robert M McNamara Interview

April 21, 2025 • 53 mins
The hits continue at Just Say No, Bob interviews esteemed MD Dr. Robert McNamara who is a professor and Chair of Emergency Medicine at the Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University to go over the eerie similarities between the corporate involvement in emergency medicine and dental practices. The similarities are not just skin deep. 
Mark as Played

Popular Podcasts

    Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

    Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

    Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.

    iHeartOlympics: The Latest

    iHeartOlympics: The Latest

    Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.

    Milan Cortina Winter Olympics

    Milan Cortina Winter Olympics

    The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.

    Stuff You Should Know

    Stuff You Should Know

    If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.

    Dateline NBC

    Dateline NBC

    Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

Advertise With Us
Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

Explore

iHeart

Live Radio

Podcasts

Artist Radio

Exclusives

News

Features

Events

Contests

Photos

Information

About

Advertise

Blog

Brand Guidelines

Contest Guidelines

Subscription Offers

Jobs

Get the App

Automotive

Home

Wearables

© 2026 iHeartMedia, Inc.