Destination Discourse
Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.
Episodes
Every DMO panel is a highlight reel - so why does no one ever mention what didn't work? Returning guest Dan Gibson (Visit McMinnville) joins Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker to make the case that destination marketing's biggest blind spot isn't failure - it's the refusal to talk about it.
They dig into how vanity metrics let DMOs claim success on their own terms, why agencies get punished the moment a campaign underperforms (even...
Every vendor in the industry suddenly has an "AI visibility score" to sell you. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker dig into whether GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) is real measurement or an expensive mirage, joined by repeat guest Emily Zertuche, CDME, founder of Zertura (formerly Visit Corpus Christi), in her first episode as a vendor.
The trio unpacks a Fast Company piece questioning whether GEO is real. Emily explains why m...
Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker step outside destination marketing to spot the trends reshaping consumer attention right now - and don't even agree on which ones matter most.
Adam opens with Reddit, still one of the most under-used channels in marketing. He breaks down how a fitness app built a 16,000-person community by posting like a real Redditor instead of an advertiser, plus stats on how much Reddit shapes purchase decision...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker recap Adam's latest CMO Jam - a live, candid roundtable with six DMO marketing leaders - and dig into the ideas that stuck.
The biggest one: panelist Christian Mingle pushed back on the word "relevance," calling it table stakes - do people know we exist? He argued DMOs should chase significance instead: do we actually move the needle for our destination? T...
AI is already cutting DMOs out of the trip-planning conversation - and Will Wright (Destination Core) thinks most destination websites are wasting the one asset that could save them: real local knowledge.
Will's thesis: DMOs are sitting on one of the most powerful editorial assets in travel - trusted, local, authentic knowledge - but keep acting like paid listing sites instead of genuine local experts. His fix is a layered app...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker tackle a question most DMOs would rather avoid: why should AI ever trust your content over anyone else's? Stuart's thesis - DMOs have grown addicted to equitable treatment of every stakeholder, from alphabetized hotel lists to identical exposure for every attraction, even when real-world demand isn't equal.
The conversation opens with Stu's News: Meta's ne...
Dan Flores, Head of Tourism at Satisfi Labs, joins Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker with an uncomfortable premise: most DMOs are still treating AI like a gadget instead of a coworker. Dan explains why "we need AI on the website" isn't a strategy, and why organizations without a written, department-by-department plan can't assign ownership, measure ROI, or know if a tool is actually working.
The conversation turns tactical fast. S...
Most DMOs talk about economic impact. Chris Fair, CEO of Resonance Co and author of the annual Best Cities report, talks about something harder to measure — and more consequential: whether a city is actually lovable.
In this episode, Fair shares data from Resonance's perception vs. performance analysis across hundreds of destinations. The gap between how a place performs on objective metrics and how people actually feel ...
Most DMOs measure success in website clicks and visitor guide downloads. Gary Sherwin has spent 20 years at Visit Newport Beach asking a harder question: if you disappeared tomorrow, would your stakeholders call you essential - or just convenient?
This episode covers the implications of Google I/O, where itinerary builders and shopping carts inside search may soon make the DMO website an afterthought, through to Gary's case th...
Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Dan Holowack (CrowdRift) and Janette Roush (Brand USA) for a tactical deep dive into how DMOs are actually using AI day-to-day.
The episode opens with a provocative Stu's News: 92% of respondents to an AI-enthusiast newsletter poll said they want more regulation — a number that surprises even the hosts. The group unpacks the growing backlash, from commencement speech boos to you...
What happens when destination marketing organizations start optimizing for short-term ROI at the exact moment AI is fundamentally changing how travelers discover destinations?
In this thought-provoking episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back recurring guest Emily Zertuche for one of the most important conversations the show has tackled yet.
The discussion dives deep into Emily’s latest...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Dan Gibson, CEO of Visit McMinnville and former journalist, to explore the collapse of local media — and what DMOs should do about it.
Topics include:
• Anthropic's Claude for Small Business launch and what it means for destination marketers
• The state of local journalism and the storytelling void it leaves behind
• Whether DM...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker share a live session recorded at Destinations International’s MarCom Summit, where they challenge the industry to rethink the role, purpose, and value of destination marketing organizations.
The live conversation focuses on a first-principles question every DMO should be asking: Why do we exist? From there, Stuart and Adam explore who the DMO’s...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by AI leaders Janette Roush and Dan Holowack for a fast-moving, no-fluff conversation on where AI is actually going—and what DMOs are missing right now.
After some classic banter (and a custom-made Stu’s News jingle created at the gym), the conversation quickly shifts into a deeper look at how tools like Claude are evolving—fro...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Matt Vinson from Visit Dallas for a conversation about what destination marketing can learn from fresh perspectives, especially from sports, technology, and outside industries.
After a chaotic intro, Adam’s public apology, and Matt’s brave admission that he hates the Stu’s News theme song, the group dives into the rapid evol...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker record together in Myrtle Beach for a conversation that gets personal, practical, and a little uncomfortable—in the best way.
Stuart introduces a framework he’s been shaping over time: scrappy always wins.
But this isn’t about doing more with less or glorifying hustle. It’s about something deeper. Scrappy is defined here as the inter...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler, Adam Stoker, and returning guest Matt Stiker tackle one of the most entertaining—and surprisingly important—questions in destination marketing:
Are DMOs too focused on the “D”… and not enough on the “O”?
Yes, the title is a little clickbaity. Yes, the jokes write themselves. But underneath it is a real conversation about relevanc...
What happens when travelers start treating their vacation calendar like a strategy game?
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Caleb Sullivan for a conversation that starts with podcast banter, Claude productivity talk, and a plug for Caleb’s new podcast, Give Me Some Good News — then quickly turns into a smart discussion about a timely tourism marketing question:
Are d...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are back for a long-overdue one-on-one conversation, and they waste no time jumping into two big topics that could reshape destination marketing.
First, Stuart shares why he believes AI has reached another watershed moment. He breaks down how his team at Visit Myrtle Beach is using Claude Co-Work not just as a chatbot, but as something much closer to a tru...
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined once again by AI strategist C.A. Clark for a wide-ranging conversation about artificial intelligence, adoption gaps, and what the technology actually means for the future of work in tourism.
The discussion begins with a look at recent job market data and the growing debate around whether AI is already affecting employment. While the long-term ou...
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