People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast

People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast

This is a podcast about deciphering human behavior and understanding why people do the things they do. I, Zach Elwood, talk with people from a wide range of fields about how they make sense of human behavior and psychology. I've talked to jury consultants, interrogation professionals, behavior researchers, sports analysts, professional poker players, to name a few. There are more than 135 episodes, many of them quite good (although some say I'm biased). To learn more, go to PeopleWhoReadPeople.com.

Episodes

From body language bullshit to behavior science, with Vincent Denault

March 12, 2026 • 66 mins
Vincent Denault once believed he was learning how to read people’s hidden thoughts through analyzing body language. As a young lawyer in Quebec, he attended behavior analysis and “synergology” trainings that promised the ability to detect lies and determine hidden thoughts from small gestures and movements. But after digging into the research, he realized much of what he’d been taught wasn't true. In this talk, Vincent describes th...
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Con man Chase Hughes' military record versus his grandiose claims

March 3, 2026 • 89 mins
How does someone who makes wildly grandiose claims about mind control, interrogation mastery, neuroscience credentials, and secret military psychology operations gain more than 1.5 million YouTube subscribers—and land appearances on shows like Joe Rogan and Diary of a CEO—without anyone vetting his story? I’m joined by ex-CIA officer and fraud-exposer Kent Clizbe (kentclizbe.com), and we take a hard look at Chase Hughes’ actual Nav...
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Epstein Hysteria! Moral panic and dumb overreactions from Kyle Kulinski, others

February 26, 2026 • 29 mins
The Epstein files release has resulted in many people seeming to lose their minds: engaging in moral panic, having hysterical overreactions, filtering for worst-case interpretations of ambiguous data, images, and emails. Using a video from the political influencer Kyle Kulinski (who has 2M+ YouTube subscribers) as a case study, I examine how ambiguous snippets—like an audio clip of people seemingly talking about killing deer — get ...
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Is your existence improbable? Or inevitable? Exploring universalism with Arnold Zuboff

February 21, 2026 • 87 mins
Many view the fact that they are here, experiencing the world, as something insanely improbable... but what if it were instead entirely inevitable? The philosopher Arnold Zuboff walks us through a mind-bending argument, which he calls universalism (aka open individualism), where the improbability of your existence vanishes. It doesn’t matter which sperm met which egg, or how your ancestors got together, or how anything at all in th...
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Waco negotiator Gary Noesner shares tips on de-escalation and reading behavior

February 13, 2026 • 63 mins
What actually works to avoid violent outcomes when someone is armed, emotional, and on the edge? I talk with former FBI chief hostage negotiator Gary Noesner, author of Stalling for Time, about the psychology of high-stakes crisis situations — including lessons from Waco (part of which he was present for) and other cases Gary explains the “paradox of power” (why pushing aggressively often backfires), and why most so-called hostage ...
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Pro negotiator discusses the “power of nice” and reading body language | with Andres Lares

February 8, 2026 • 66 mins
What actually makes negotiations work—and why do so many “tough” tactics backfire? In this episode, Zach talks with professional negotiator Andres Lares about why the most effective deals rarely come from trying to win at all costs. Drawing from sports contracts, Fortune 500 negotiations, and decades of real-world experience, Andres explains the “power of nice,” the importance of looking for creative win-win approaches, and why pub...
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FBI agent discusses interrogation tactics, body language, the lie detector, and more

January 31, 2026 • 84 mins
A talk with Eric Robinson, a recently retired Federal Bureau of Investigation agent and former pastor, about what actually works in real-world interrogations—and what doesn’t. Drawing on 24 years in the FBI, Eric explains why techniques like friendliness and rapport are so powerful, discusses the use of silence to induce information-sharing, and talks about the importance of asking only a single question at a time. Eric also explai...
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Some scoff at political bridge-building efforts. What are they missing?

January 27, 2026 • 45 mins
A talk with Doug Teschner and Beth Malow—co-authors of the book Beyond the Politics of Contempt—about an aspect of bridge-building/depolarization-aimed work that rarely gets discussed: the backlash. We dig into the criticisms and skepticism that people on both “sides” throw at bridge-building efforts—claims that it’s naive, weak, morally compromised, or even a form of complicity with the "bad guys." We talk about why contempt can f...
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A Fox News fraud: How CIA/intel "expert" Wayne Simmons was exposed by Kent Clizbe

January 21, 2026 • 49 mins
A talk with former CIA officer Kent Clizbe about his exposure of Wayne Simmons, a man who spent more than a decade on Fox News posing as a CIA counterterrorism expert—but who was a fraud and serial liar. And we talk about how that case mirrors the case of Chase Hughes, who claims to know advanced, top-secret techniques and intelligence, and who has gained many fans, but who is a clear fraud. Topics discussed: how Kent met Wayne Sim...
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The psychology of narcissistic abuse—and how it can continue after separation

January 16, 2026 • 52 mins
A talk with Jackie Miller, host of the podcast “Out of Crazy Town: Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist.” Jackie shares her personal story of escaping a coercively controlling, psychologically abusive marriage—and how that led her to try to help others navigating similar nightmarish situations. We talk about how these relationships evolve from subtle manipulation into abusive domination and control; and we talk about the mind-bendi...
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Body language lies: The pseudoscience and silliness spread by alleged behavior "experts"

January 9, 2026 • 76 mins
Can you really tell who’s lying just by watching their body language? Are there any practical takeaways you can reliably and regularly get from studying nonverbal behavior in interrogation/interview settings? In this episode, I, Zach Elwood (author of some popular books on poker tells) talk to Chris Shelton, host of Speaking of Cults (speakingofcults.com). We take a hard look at the booming industry of alleged “body language exper...
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How a news site uses social network mapping to reduce polarization

January 3, 2026 • 63 mins
Aemula is a new kind of news media platform that’s trying to tackle a big problem: the fact that the structure of our news media leads to various outcomes that amplify toxic polarization. Instead of the usual “engagement = more exposure” logic, Aemula flips the incentives. You read an article, then you tap a simple Support or Disagree button — and those signals build a living map of Aemula’s community: a 3D social network graph sho...
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Does contempt for Trump voters help Trump? Are we in a feedback loop?

November 23, 2025 • 37 mins
For many people, Trump represents a uniquely dangerous figure in American history. But what if the contemptuous, maximally pessimistic ways many people talk about Trump and Republicans help put more "wind in the sails" of polarized, polarizing leaders like Trump? Are we in a self-reinforcing feedback loop of contempt and anger? In this talk for Richard Davies' series How Do We Fix it? (www.howdowefixit.me) Zachary Elwood argues tha...
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The Orgasmic Meditation story: Origins and psychology of OneTaste and Nicole Daedone

November 18, 2025 • 73 mins
I talk with journalist Ellen Huet, whose new book Empire of Orgasm digs into the strange origins and evolution of Nicole Daedone and OneTaste, and goes into more detail than the Netflix doc titled Orgasm Inc. We talk about where OneTaste’s orgasmic meditation practices actually came from, how Daedone built a movement around it, and how that movement shifted into something far more high-control and ultimately criminal. Topics discus...
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Can behavior clusters help determine a lie? Tim Levine on deception detection science

November 13, 2025 • 52 mins
Many people think there are telltale signs of lying — shifty eyes, nervous fidgeting, maybe a quick smile — that can give someone away to trained observers. But according to decades of research, that’s a myth. Still, some scientists push back on that consensus. A recent paper by well-known researcher David Matsumoto (of the company Humintell) argues that combinations of nonverbal cues might be highly useful for revealing deception....
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Tracking people over terrain: What's real, what's fiction?

October 26, 2025 • 50 mins
Have you ever wondered how tracking people actually works? You’ve probably seen a lot of Hollywood depictions of how law enforcement track people over external terrain, and maybe you’ve wondered what’s real and what’s exaggerated. I talk with Rob Speiden, an instructor in what’s called “sign cutting." Rob breaks down real search-and-rescue, law-enforcement, and military use-cases; why “broken twigs” and deep foot prints are actuall...
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NLP pseudoscience and its use by Chase Hughes and other con artists and deceptive faux-gurus

October 20, 2025 • 141 mins
You’ve probably heard of neuro-linguistic programming (NLP). It’s a popular thing. It’s the foundation for the work of popular life/business coach Tony Robbins, and there are many other popular trainers and “gurus” who have used NLP ideas as the basis for their work. The con artist Chase Hughes, whose lies and unethical behaviors I’ve examined on this podcast, is one such false guru whose origins are in NLP. This is a reshare of an...
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Is the internet a methamphetamine of the masses?

October 14, 2025 • 38 mins
Is it possible that internet communication, by speeding up and distorting our interactions, is agitating us and deranging us? Is it possible that by putting human interactions “on speed,” the internet amplifies some of the darker aspects of our social psychology? Are we being driven crazy by this technology? If the internet is deranging and dividing us, what are the psychological processes by which it does that? Learn more about yo...
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"They're the violent, crazy ones!": How polarization warps our views of our political opponents

October 6, 2025 • 20 mins
A major barrier to reducing toxic polarization is that so many of us—especially those who are highly politically involved—see our current toxic conflict as clearly the other side’s fault. People in both groups focus on the grievances that alarm them most but often struggle to understand what bothers their adversaries. From the outside, our opponents’ complaints can look minor, silly, or misinformed compared to our concerns, which w...
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Are you and I (and everyone) the same person? A talk on Open Individualism with Joe Kern

September 27, 2025 • 96 mins
What if your sense of existence, your self-awareness, isn’t unique at all—but the very same “I” that exists in everyone, everywhere? What if you and I—and everyone—are essentially the same person? In this episode, I talk with Joe Kern, author of “The Odds of You Existing,” about Open Individualism: the radical view that there is only a single subject of consciousness, which is shared by all aware beings. Put another way: instead of...
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