People I (Mostly) Admire

By cataloging the steady march of human progress, the Harvard psychologist and linguist has become a very public intellectual. But the self-declared “polite Canadian” has managed to enrage people on opposite ends of the political spectrum. Steve Levitt tries to understand why. This episode originally aired on August 21st, 2020.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection a...

In the last episode of the podcast, Stephen Dubner turns the microphone on Steve Levitt. They talk about Levitt’s favorite — and least favorite — moments from the show’s five-year run, his quest to reform education, and his next podcasting gig.

• SOURCES:
  • Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio, co-author of Freakonomics books.

• RESOURCES:
  • "How to Help Kids Succeed," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2025).
  • "Feeli...

The late Robert Solow was a giant among economists. When he was 98 years old he told Steve about cracking German codes in World War II, why it’s so hard to reduce inequality, and how his field lost its way. 

• SOURCES:
  • Robert Solow, professor emeritus of economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Secrecy, Cigars, and a Venetian Wedding: How the P.G.A. Tour Made a Deal with Saudi Arabia...

Michael Crow is the president of Arizona State University, which U.S. News & World Report has called the most innovative school in the country for 11 years running. He tells Steve about why higher education needs to change, and how A.S.U. is leading the way. Plus: Steve has an announcement about the podcast.

• SOURCES:
  • Michael Crow, president of Arizona State University.

• RESOURCES:
  • The Fifth Wave: The Evolutio...

Michael Greenstone knows it’s corny, but he wants to make the world a better place — by tracking the impact of air quality, developing pollution markets in India, and … starting a podcast, which Steve says proves he’s over the hill.

• SOURCES:
  • Michael Greenstone, professor of economics at the University of Chicago.

• RESOURCES:
  • "New evidence on the impact of sustained exposure to air pollution on life expectancy...

Suleika Jaouad was diagnosed with cancer at 22. She made her illness the subject of a New York Times column and a memoir, Between Two Kingdoms. She and Steve talk about what it means to live with a potentially fatal illness, how to talk to people who've gone through a tragedy, and ways to encourage medical donations.

• SOURCES:
  • Suleika Jaouad, author.

• RESOURCES:
  • The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an ...

Physicist and former pop star Brian Cox tells Steve about discovering the Higgs boson, having a number-one hit, and why particle physics research will almost certainly not create a black hole that destroys all life on earth.

• SOURCES:
  • Brian Cox, physicist at the University of Manchester.

• RESOURCES:
  • Black Holes: The Key to Understanding the Universe, by Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw (2023).
  • "Higgs10: The Higgs bos...

Irving Finkel is an expert on cuneiform — the oldest known writing system. He tells Steve the amazing story of how an ancient clay tablet unlocked the truth about Noah’s ark (and got Finkel in trouble with some Christians).

• SOURCES:
  • Irving Finkel, curator in the department of the Middle East at the British Museum.

• RESOURCES:
  • "How to write cuneiform," by Irving Finkel (The British Museum, 2021).
  • "PBS Nova: Sec...

Moon Duchin is a math professor at the University of Chicago whose theoretical work has practical applications for voting and democracy. Why is striving for fair elections so difficult?

• SOURCES:
  • Moon Duchin, professor of mathematics at Cornell University.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Gerrymandering: The Origin Story," by Neely Tucker (Timeless: Stories from the Library of Congress, 2024).
  • "Redistricting for Proportionality," ...

Frances Arnold pioneered the process of directed evolution — mimicking natural selection to create new enzymes that have changed everything from agriculture to laundry.

• SOURCES:
  • Frances Arnold, professor of chemistry at the California Institute of Technology. 

• RESOURCES: 
  • "Innovation by Evolution: Bringing New Chemistry to Life," by Frances Arnold (Nobel Lecture, 2018).
  • "Bacteria taught to bond carbon and sil...

Steven Pinker’s new book argues that all our relationships depend on shared assumptions and “recursive mentalizing” — our constant efforts to understand what other people are thinking. He and Steve talk about the psychology of eye contact, the particular value of Super Bowl ads, and what it’s like to get cancelled.

• SOURCES:
  • Steven Pinker, professor of psychology at Harvard University.

• RESOURCES:
  • When Everyon...

The Power of Habit author Charles Duhigg wrote his new book in an attempt to learn how to communicate better. Steve shares how the book helped him understand his own conversational weaknesses.

• SOURCES:
  • Charles Duhigg, journalist and author.

• RESOURCES:
  • Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection, by Charles Duhigg (2024).
  • "2023 Word of the Year Is 'Enshittification,'" by the American Di...

Seth Berkley used to run the world's largest vaccine funding organization. He and Steve talk about the incredible value of vaccines, the economics of immunizing the developing world, and the current attacks on public health.

• SOURCES:
  • Seth Berkley, epidemiologist at Brown University School of Public Health.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Trump Administration Ends Program Critical to Search for an H.I.V. Vaccine," by Apoorva Man...

Stefanie Stantcheva’s approach seemed like career suicide. In fact, it won her the John Bates Clark Medal. She talks to fellow winner Steve Levitt about why she uses methods that most of the profession dismisses — and what she’s found that can’t be learned any other way.

• SOURCES:
  • Stefanie Stantcheva, professor of political economy at Harvard University.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Understanding Economic Behavior Using Open-...

From recording some of the first rap hits to revitalizing Johnny Cash's career, the legendary producer has had an extraordinary creative life. In this episode he talks about his new book and his art-making process — and helps Steve get in touch with his own artistic side. 

• SOURCES:
  • Rick Rubin, music producer and record executive.

• RESOURCES:
  • The Creative Act: A Way of Being, by Rick Rubin (2023).
  • “How Google’s...

More than two decades ago, Adam Riess’s Nobel Prize-winning work fundamentally changed our understanding of the universe. His new work is reshaping cosmology for a second time.

• RESOURCES:
  • Adam Riess, astrophysicist at Johns Hopkins University.

• SOURCES:
  • "The Nobel Prize Winner Who Thinks We Have the Universe All Wrong," by Ross Andersen (The Atlantic, 2025).
  • "The answer to life, the universe and everything mig...

Uri Simonsohn is a behavioral science professor who wants to improve standards in his field — so he’s made a sideline of investigating fraudulent academic research. He tells Steve Levitt, who's spent plenty of time rooting out cheaters in other fields, how he does it.

• SOURCES:
  • Uri Simonsohn, professor of behavioral science at Esade Business School.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Gino v. President and Fellows of Harvard College...

Former U.S. Secretary of Education, 3x3 basketball champion, and leader of an anti-gun violence organization are all on Arne’s resume. He’s also Steve’s neighbor. The two talk about teachers caught cheating in Chicago public schools and Steve shares a story he’s never told Arne, about a defining moment in the educator’s life.

• SOURCES:
  • Arne Duncan, the 9th U.S. Secretary of Education; founder of C.R.E.D.; former head of Chica...

Kate Marvel spends her days playing with climate models, which she says are “like a very expensive version of The Sims.” As a physicist she gets tired of being asked to weigh in on economics, geopolitics, and despair — but she still defends the right of scientists to have strong feelings about the planet.

• SOURCES:
  • Kate Marvel, climate scientist and science writer.

• RESOURCES:
  • Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel A...