January 26, 2021 • 41 mins
Mick Fleetwood is the drummer and a founding member of Fleetwood Mac, one of the most successful rock bands of all time. Fleetwood talks to Alec about how dyslexia led him to the drumming, how supportive parents encouraged his talent and his move to London as a teenager, how his friendship with the band’s founder, guitarist Peter Green, evolved to a life-long friendship, and how Fleetwood Mac balanced the weight of their interpersonal dynamics and the band’s wild, over-the-top success. The band’s 1977 album Rumors broke through Billboard 100 again last year thanks to a Tik Tok of a man on a skateboard lipsyncing to Dreams and introduced a whole new generation to Fleetwood Mac’s beautiful, enduring music.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing
from I Heart Radio. That is, of course Dreams by
Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to a TikTok of some guy on
(00:26):
a skateboard who goes by the name dog Face lip
syncing to this song and his seventy two million views,
Fleetwood Max album rumors broke through Rolling Stones Top on
list again last year, more than forty years after its release.
My guest today is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of
(00:49):
Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac existed for nearly a decade before
the lineup we think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie,
Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie at Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood
Mac formed in London in the late nineties sixties, it
was Peter Green's idea. Well, I would be remiss. Peter
(01:10):
Green started Fleetwood Matt the original guitar player. I was
at his right hand side, John McVie. All of us
have played in the band called John Males Blues Breakers,
Eric McK taylor, Peter Green. They and I'm saying that
because they were represent great guitar players that came out
of that band that have more than made their mark
(01:32):
in my world. And so Peter asked me to play drums,
and I already had played with them in a funny
band with Rod Stewart for a short while, so we
won't go into that. So it was it was really
a team of people that Peter John mcvigh especially came
out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an
(01:52):
art form, the blues, and really all our heroes were
American blues artists, and you are well, aw I can
tell about the irony of of a bunch of funny,
little white kids in England really preserving an art form
that had long since been you know, I won't use
the bad word, but you know, pooped on by the
(02:14):
American sort of glossing over of something that was so evident.
So we were all from that framework and when we
formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely, semi
innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen
to the first few albums that we made before Peter
(02:37):
especially started really writing, like when you look at early
Rolling Stones, it's Bow Diddley and Chuck Berry and with
anyone you see the development into self expression and that's
what transpired afterwards. But the original band was all about
that and a little team of people sharing something and
(02:57):
having a lot of fun with it, you know, creatively
turned into something a little bit more than we ever
could have possibly have imagined. The year that you formed
the band with Green, what year was that seven Winstor
Jazz Festival and the band was called Fleetwood Mac by
Peter Green, who could have very easily become the Jeff
(03:20):
Beck or the Jimmy Page or the Eric Clapton gun
slinger guitar player. That's a whole another story. Is is
a lovely story and an attribute to Peter's generosity. We
played the Winstor Jazz Festival intending, as you can tell
with the name Fleetwood Mac. The name was my name
(03:40):
and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was still
playing in John Male's Blues Breakers on the same show.
Watched the band he's supposed to be in from from
the side of the stage, and about three months later
he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with
whatever amount of mon he does have, So when we
(04:02):
had enough gigs he said I'm ready to join, which
was of course when you made it worth my while.
When it worth I know there'll be no net loss
in my income. I'll meet you there at the club.
And that's what happened. And when you say that Green
could have been in this pantheon of great guitar players,
because it's something he didn't want. That he did not
(04:22):
want that level of fame and that level of attention. No,
it was very evident. And the end story, which of
course went into a very changed personally, he was my
dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know,
he gave me so much encouragement as a player and
super fun person but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive
(04:46):
than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized.
And he eventually became sick and so came to a
sort of journey that was for a while was living
a living tragedy for me, uh offishly. But then you
learned to accept him as he turned out. But back
then everything he did was about being just really generous.
(05:11):
And I read an article after you know you you think, well,
what was the real story, And for instance would be
that someone asked him why was the bank hall Fleetwood
mac And he said well, I figured at that point,
I've broken up with my lovely girlfriend Jenny, who are
later married, and I played with Peter, and he had
(05:33):
his eyes on another drummer, as it turned out, and
he said, why did you pick Mick? And of course
my little less than self would would have thought, well,
maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know.
And what it was, he said, I wanted Mike to
play the drums because I got so fed up with
seeing him so sad that I thought it would give
(05:54):
him something to do. And I thought that was the
greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend.
And that really sums it up about how it was
not about him. And he created a platform which served me. Well,
my father, it was an Air Force chap. So the
word to serve, to serve, Well, that's what I think
(06:16):
I learned to do. With all of how the madness
of this band and and and the incarnates of just
are you kidding me? That if you wrote this down
you would say, it's not possible this bunch could possibly
have survived with all of the ups and downs and
character changes and changing the script as you go along,
And yet there's still a story. Peter started that and
(06:38):
handed that to me. I think when he he welcomed everyone,
including me, Danny Cowen who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer.
They were all there so that Peter did not want
to be king Tut in the front there taking all
the limelight, and I think it was way more meaning
(07:00):
full in sense of of where he came from. It's
just he wanted to be in a band, and he
created that band and made sure the band was not
called Peter Green's anything, because he could are very easily,
and I always thank him for that. The name Fleetwood
Mac he was asked and he said, well, I always
thought that I would probably move on, which he did
(07:21):
under very strange circumstances, unfortunately for us. And he said
I wanted Mick and John to have something. And I
saw and heard this interview years and years and years
and years later. It's like finding out a family relative
will tell you what the real story was. And sometimes
(07:42):
it's mind blowing, and sometimes it's hugely moving and gratifying
to hear, and that was one of them. He didn't
start drumming till you were thirteen, correct officially, but yeah,
I would say I started hitting furniture when I was
about eight. What change when you were thirteen? You want
a drum? Now, on a serious level, what changed? Oh?
I would think that, first of all, been completely on
(08:06):
some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had had not
one iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So
there I was struggling with great parents. So I never
felt threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still
don't know my arthrobet or I mean, if my whole
family was lined up God forbid and said you don't
(08:29):
have to well, I know, but a lot of people say,
you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about
what I do when I play drums. I said, actually,
sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to tell
you the real truth, and and you go, well, it's not.
Then they start arguing with you, go, how can you
do that? You're full of ship, you know, you know?
I said, no, no, it just comes out. I have
(08:51):
no idea. So I blundered into it. But I would
think that the love and the one thing that I
could grab onto was the fact that I, for some reason,
I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned
to back in Norway when I was much younger and
we traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather little
(09:11):
funny we call them tuftos or something things stuff with
newspaper that sound really cool with their leather. Theyather sort
of out ottoman things, and and I Mom would listen
to the home service and do the cleaning and have
a Dubonne and have a one cigarette of the day.
This is when I was probably about six or seven
(09:32):
in Norway, and I remember listening to the radio and
tapping on I don't know why on furniture, but Daddy
used to tap on on coins and do military things
in his pocket and he would play bottles with water
in them at parties, so I vaguely remember that. I
don't think that's why I did it, but I think
(09:54):
my quantum lead was a blessing and it was like
a divine intervention of sorts that the one thing I
love doing. I had this obsession with collecting drum catalogs
and fantasies of gold and sparkling instruments that you know,
we're my dream. So at boarding school, the last thing
I did, I had this whole package filled with brushes,
(10:16):
opened one to the other, and I think I saw
my way out. And when Dad said, do you want
to go to college, and he didn't have any money,
but he was obviously making it available for me, and
with tears in our eyes, and I said, Daddy, I
want to go to London and play drums. And by
that time I had had my little drum kit, almost
(10:37):
a toy drum kit, in the house. And I think
it was my learning disability that drove me by Some
happened since both my sisters went into the arts. One
was a very fine actress, Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company,
and my elder sister was an art student at the Polytechnic,
so we were all completely academically use us. So I
(11:01):
had the blessing that Mom and Dad said, then, my god,
it's probably the only one thing he really thinks he
can do. And that wasn't encouraged you, absolutely just I
had complete and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever,
And they sent me off with a drum kit to
London wrapped in the blanket. My father wrote a poem
(11:22):
about it. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's
the thing If you love conversations with iconic musicians who
also happy to be members of long lasting bands, be
sure to check out my conversation with The Who's legendary
frontman Roger Daughtry from our Archives. Daughtry talked about the
(11:42):
first time he swung a microphone around on stage. No
one told me, I just yourself. Once they went into
the free form in the early days, the late sixties,
it just came out of boredom I was. I couldn't
stand here and be like Robert Plant. I wasn't tall enough.
I just needed to dance, but I didn't want to
dance like an ordinary dancer. So I just started to
(12:05):
play with it and it just got bigger and dig
energy and channel the energy. And then Pete started jumping,
and that legendary jump of him like a kangaroos. Really
and uh, but the whole thing was kind of in
with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it.
It was kind of extraordinary. Here the rest of my
conversation with Roger Daltrey that here's the thing dot Org.
(12:29):
After the break, we talked about the women who became
essential to the group's sound. I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're
(12:55):
listening to here's the thing. Damn, that's Christine McVie performing Songbird.
McVie joined Fleetwood mag in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left.
She had married John McVeigh a couple of years before
(13:16):
Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks joined in. I wanted to
know if when Christine joined there was any pressure to
include a woman. Well, Christine for sure, and any lovely
lady out there would not take it wrong. She was
a musician and she was a great piano player, and
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her experience was already integrated with being I'm a player,
and it was nothing of the sort that it was
a woman or a man. It was just who you
are and what you do. Truly, it was that and
she cherishes that to this day because we call her
the rock. You know. She's like, she doesn't rely on
(14:00):
anything other than no pussy stuff. I am who I am,
and am I delivering what you need? And she has
that respect. So she came into the band as a player, literally,
and there was no thought she she knew John, which
had nothing to do with it. Part from is your
maiden name really perfect? Is it Christine? Perfect? Yeah? And
(14:21):
John would say she was perfect before she married me. Well, Jack,
so that was really it. It was not about having
a lady and about we need a girl. No, it
was about a really, really great musician, bloody good piano player.
Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true,
(14:44):
which is that in that world there is nobody who
cast a spell on me like Christine lick They. I mean,
I love her singing beyond belief. I mean, she just
she does something to me that I can't even describe.
She she singing is so beautiful. You know I can
second that, right. So she's with you in the band,
and then you decided to have another woman joined the band.
(15:05):
So Buckingham, you asked him to join the band. Yeah,
but Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, and
I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap
so he left. But prior to that, I've been in
the studio sound City to try and find a studio
to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves
(15:28):
and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having
heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of a
Buckham Nick Nick's album that he'd made with them, the
the album, and then Bob left and I made a
phone call and I said, you know that music you
were playing? Who What? How? And you're right, I was
(15:48):
looking for a guitar player. So I forever have Stevie
to this day in a comedic sense, but always with
a knife in my back. It wasn't really me that
you wanted, It was Lindsay, which was true, and in
very short form, Lindsay made it very clear that if
he was to join, which was not a slam dunk
(16:10):
at the beginning, because he and Stevie were thinking about
going forward in their own world, and she actually persuaded
Lindsay to join the band pretty much. She got fed
up with waiting tables and stuff, so she came somewhat
originally by default, and yet not because the real story
(16:31):
is it was very evident early on, although Stevie said,
you know loves to dig at me, it was that,
first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal to her and
I'm not going to do this without her. Boom over.
Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to realize these songs,
these beautiful songs were co written by both Lindsay and Stevie,
(16:55):
and then you listen to the vocal blend, which is
none other than going. When you hear the Evely Brothers,
you go like, oh my god, that has joined at
the hip. And they came in short form into the
band as a duo, which was merciful decision when I
look back that Lindsay did not desert he and and
(17:18):
said I'm here, but I'm here with my partner, and
that's how that happened. I've asked other very successful artists,
such as yourself in the music world, what does a
producer do for you? When you're in a studio, when
you're making a record. Who's the decider, who decides what
take what track, this vocal track, this drum track, whatever.
(17:39):
But when you had a collaboration with the producer that
helped you, what did they do for you? Well, I
think the simple form would be that we as a
band no matter what, which is not always there and
it's not always the magic formula. A lot of people
just totally excel by being guided and permanently told what
to do and have a mirror. That's a reflection from
(18:01):
another aspect, another interpretation of really who who they truly are,
and that's fine. That was so not how we grew
up into and blustered into what we were doing. So
I would say that anyone that that's worked, including Keith.
Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably the most
(18:23):
influential that he He was a blues fanatic and he
ran that little label we were on called Blue Horizon
and after that, so he would be picking songs here
and there with with Peter and the band. After that,
it's really about are you a band member meaning them?
How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not
(18:46):
insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in
a band. And that's what I would always look out for,
and I think that's been the our success has been
absolute suppression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's
really listening to and having an empathy with what am
(19:08):
I dealing with here, especially later on when we became
very much five separate, expressive people that whoever it was,
you have to look back on and give them huge
amounts of credit. Has been some form of a social
director more than an artistic director. And I lost all
(19:29):
my hair because I was both. But that would you
say when you say five separate, distinct beings, there was
a period when they weren't there were a unit, and
they were a unit during what period? And what was
that like and what what changed that? Musically? Well, Fleetwood
Mac was already a stage that existed, and Fleetwood Mac
(19:54):
was always about change, so that you were accepted for
who you were and one should express themselves. You know,
when I look back on it, that's in a naive
way what I must have understood, especially being a drama
when you go, well, what the hell am I going
to do if I don't have a frontline and people
that are delivering the play. You know, not to diminish
(20:19):
who I am and what I am. But that was
my function probably more than anything. So they came as
different characters walking on that stage, and if you see
and hear the music, you go none of it makes
any sense. None of them were clones of anyone. They
were all completely their own entity. So what they had
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to learn was to be in a band. Everyone was
extremely unhappy emotionally and on the making of rumors and
Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's it's it's tough.
You know, no one ever intended to leave or anything.
But one time I remember sitting in the studio at
the record plant with Lindsay and he just turned and
I said, I don't know where I can do this,
(21:02):
you know, it's just, you know, we're in transition here.
And his interpretation was, can I be in a band?
Can I be in a band? Especially with the pressure
of is this what it's like being in a band?
You're emotionally exposed? And everyone was. We were all in,
you know, I'm drifting into the area where we promised
(21:24):
we wouldn't go. But so I just sat with him
and he was playing a star, remember it distinctly, and
I said, then you must go. If it's self preservation,
don't destroy that, don't destroy yourself because of the play
in essence Peter Green, Yeah, And I said I don't
have any ultimate apart from if it's that bad, then
(21:46):
you have to go. And then I segued and I said,
this is what it is. Everything is a compromise. When
you're walking on a stage and sharing that that stage
and this is that stage, and I'm not forcing you.
Extremely sad if halfway through an album you just can't
finish it out. And he didn't say much. He just said,
(22:08):
I understand, and he stayed. A guy once said to me,
and he was much younger than me, and this is
maybe like ten years ago, was in my early fifties.
It was in the lines of advice to him for
his career, and I said, well, do you really want
like the cold, hard unvarness. You want to put the
bark on or the bark off? And I said, if
you want to put the bark on, then don't get
(22:30):
married to your forty, don't have any kids to your forty.
Give yourself. You're not just your twenties, but your thirties.
Give this everything you have. If you want to be
an actor with a real prime if you want to
be Leo DiCaprio, you want to be a guy who's
like at the top of the pile and making movies
with the best director, of the best scripts. Everything's the best,
the budgets, the release dates, everything. If you want to
(22:50):
surf that wave all the way to the shore, then
you have to make this the most important thing in
your life. Do you find that that was true for
you as well? I think in retrospect we didn't know
because you're you're in it. But as a comment, I
think it's entirely correct and and and proven out in
no uncertain terms of time and time and time and
(23:10):
time and time and time. Again. Are the miracles that
slipped through and survive like a built in version of
what you've just said. In terms of advice, yeah, few
and far between. It really puts a wall that you
don't even realize that you're putting up, where you're so
into what you're doing that people get left out and
(23:32):
feel pushed away. So ideally, I think your your advice
is entirely correct, but that advice is always always in
retrospect for anyone. It's always always. But I'm wondering also
with three men, I mean as Asleep with Mac is
most renowned for its three men and two women, and
neither one of those women has children? Correct? Were the
(23:54):
people that they were going through life and they were like, well,
we're going to get to that, And the next year
they turned around they were like, wow, we like nothing.
You know, I would say if either Chris or Stevie,
I feel comfortable in this conversation saying there was no
doubt that they made that decision. Two dedicate their lives
(24:14):
to their careers with flashes of what if. But I
think both of these ladies would have no problem saying
that that was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah. Interesting,
very interesting. Now when people ask me about my drug use,
I say that I snorted a line of cocaine from
here to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine
(24:37):
on the rings of Saturn, and then we took it
home with another I'm sure is that possible? I think
your your description is that actually more far reaching than mine,
a planetary version, but my version of that would be
and I never lived it down. But you know, I
(24:59):
have no problem at all apart from don't go there.
And and then you have the war stories, which this
is sort of tending to be. And I'll preface it
by saying war stories are fine, but there's a time
and place and what can you learn from them would
be my little lesson for anyone listening. So, having said that,
my transgression was, which was some awful interview I did,
(25:23):
and I said, well, I one time, you know, I
was in the studio and I'm talking about my how
much coke do you think I've ever done? This was
like in our private world, and we measured out a
good semi fat line of cocaine and then duplicated it,
and then X amount of years, so in the last
something something amount of years we actually worked it out
(25:46):
instead of cutting tape and editing the song together. We
got into a transgression of actually working out probably about
how long would that line be? And it was seven
miles long apparently, And I never lived that down and
years al especially in England, whether they love all that
(26:07):
terrible stuff, and I have to sit there not talking
about and you would be like someone talking about something
in your life versus the play I'm in or the
script I've just written, or the book I've just you know,
and you go and you go like, well, live with it,
because you opened your mouth in the first place all
those years ago, and mine would be one of probably
(26:30):
quite a few transgressions in terms of that. But comedically
so I still get asked, you know, was it really
seven miles long? And I looked down to my trousers
and well, I wished, you know, I'm thirty five years sober.
I get sober a long time ago in l A.
(26:50):
For you, did you feel that when that stopped? Because
for me, when it stopped, there were good things, but
they were also bad things because you're forced to in
front of everything. You know, if you are if you
go out in the world and you don't drink and
you don't take drugs, and then I'm not commenting on you,
but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored and
you need to go out and face the world that
(27:11):
you need to resolve all your problems. You can't sit
in the problem anymore. You've got to resolve things and
confront things and clean up the mass and so forth.
And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically
once you stopped abusing yourself. Well, I still drink, but
the marching powder was a massive part of my life
(27:31):
for probably way over twenty years, just a long time.
I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle. So that's
a long time to have that that problem. Oh yeah,
I was known as the King of twot and everyone
would always know that I would wouldn't hold it, you know.
And then I did hit a brick wall and it
(27:53):
was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy would always say,
because they're hugely support, almost blindly supported, I's no problem
at all. Whenever he wants to stop it can stop. It,
you know, all those catchphrases, and I always sort of
thought that I could. And then I hit a brick
(28:13):
walk literally and someone that I shared my life with said,
I'm I'm done. I can't be around this anymore, and
I said, please don't go leave me alone for two days,
and that's what I did and never touched the stuff
since overnight. It's divine intervention, but it's also misplaced in
(28:40):
terms of that. That's when I probably should have gone
into a program and found out what you touched on,
what were those reasons? And I've done that since a
couple of times with drink and had a sort of
a wake up call, and I just thought it was fun.
I was around people telling me literally countless horror stories
(29:02):
of what had happened to them, especially when there were
children and young and I had no support and and
all sorts of terrible things, and I just said, I
feel so terrible because I just thought it was fun
until it wasn't. And I still actually haven't found the
key of what was that My parents didn't drink on.
Julie had an incredible supportive childhood, but that brick wall
(29:28):
was Was it insecurity about being in public? Maybe I
think being famous, I mean Fleetwood Mac I men, this
music was coming out of every clamshell on the beach
for a while. Every horse in the park was singing
you can go your own where you know. It was
like this music was everywhere, everywhere. There were so many
(29:49):
songs that were just washing over you. Was like in
the air all the time. Was that unsettling for you?
Fame and all that attention. Did you need to medicate
yourself to get through that period? I would say immediately
noticed how quickly I wan't no, But I do get
nervous about performing. If someone said make a speech and
read the speech to three thousand people, I would be
(30:15):
really put upon go out on stage and just talk
to someone I love, not even a question. I know
people around me that all of the trimmings of of
what you just mentioned would be. Was that something that
freaked you out? I have to say no, because of
the way I was brought up. It was just fantastic
(30:38):
and and fun and and but actually performing and delivering
certain aspects I would have to say, did bring out
a fundamental some form of academic calling out that you
don't know quite what you're doing, and therefore of shooting itself.
(31:01):
And therefore I know for a fact. For years and
I played sober for fifteen years, the real truth is
I didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I
have one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved,
and without it, I can't even breathe. And I've I've
(31:25):
tried hypnosis, I've tried everything known to mankind to get
over it and breathing, and I had a guy like
men meditating with me on the road when I really
really really really really didn't drink. All I can say
is that instead of enjoying myself, I had my road
manager with a brown paper bag so I could breathe
(31:46):
into it to stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't
enjoy it, and it's because of the element, which is
nothing to do with fame and fortune. It's actually who
are you? What are you in the moment and being
called out like being in the class that I didn't
I didn't know Mick Fleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing
(32:09):
on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. While you're there, leave us a review.
I really appreciate it. Few bands have managed to survive
longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we return the surprising resurgence
of interest in the band's seven album rumors, Yes, the
(32:47):
same kind of story, it seems. That's the song hypnotized
recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. Mick
Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for more
than fifty years. And as there's usually one person in
every long lasting band that brings them back together, I
(33:10):
asked who was that person for Fleetwood Mac. It would
be me and and that was and is and has
been my function. I imaged it a while ago. Not
nonely big deal. But I'm going like, because I don't write,
I don't sing, although I'm enjoying doing some of that now,
(33:30):
which is interesting, really actually interesting to be able to
make a private fool of yourself with no pressure. I said,
I think my story would be and I'm really happy
about it and quietly proud of it. That my function
was that I drifted into it, I learned it, and
(33:52):
me and John always wanted to have a band to
be in. Why wouldn't you? And I said, I think
that story, sorry, is my song. You're a musical catilog
can seen so many beautiful songs. It's beautiful music, and
the poetry is beautiful, and the lyrics it still moves
you to this day. Yeah. I take that as a
(34:15):
lovely compliment on behalf of all of us in this
crazy band, and thank you. And I think there is
sometimes almost the lighthearted part of Fleetwood Mac or whatever
word one wants to use, the sort of the poppy
part of it was always balanced out by a form
(34:36):
of reveal of a form of very often some romance
of of sadness, and entertaining that type of dialogue would
be for me is songbird, and there of course our others.
But I remember when Chris wrote that, and I actually
spoke very recently to her about it. We just drifted
(34:58):
into a conversation and she totally remembered, and I went, Chris,
this is like Edith pf on a stage alone. And
she was in the studio at the record plant, and
I said, this needs to be lonely. We should record
it in an empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio.
(35:20):
Let's go and do that. And we did, and we
went to college over in Berkeley and recorded that song.
As the imaging of it was so devastating to me.
I said, you are alone, You are alone playing this lovely,
lovely song, and it should be all of that. And
(35:40):
that's exactly what we did. It was. It was the
most pregnant suite moment around the song that I can tell.
In our short conversation, some including Stevie Nicks, and we
read about Dylan's going to sell his catalog and David
Crosby is getting ready to sell his catalog. And I
guess in this Cove era and beyond, in the age
(36:01):
of streaming music, people are seeing the sources of revenue
dry up. Certainly, some of these people are older, they're
you know, they're not selling their catalog and they're in
their thirties or whatever. But what do you think of them?
I think it's great. It is I'm sure it's not
for everyone or whatever. But I think the circumstances has
triggered so many things. This would be one of them.
(36:24):
I think that those decisions may or may not have
been made anyhow, who's to say why not? And a
body of work that is to be quite frankly translated
into all sorts of lovely things for these people, whatever
that might be. Because the people are talking about they
certainly don't need any money from the most part, but no,
(36:47):
well I say, let's say we doubt it. So it
becomes something that will grow into all sorts of other
things one would imagine. Um, what they might be is
their business, you know. And one of the things I
think his family. I think a lot of people are
handing down to family ahead of time versus you know,
(37:07):
people picking through when you're God forbid, whenever that moment comes.
And to see family enjoying stuff that can be allocated
before you do pop off. So, if I'm not mistaken,
Rumors is the best selling album again now as the
direct result of some guy on a skateboard swinging down
cranberry juice. What did you think and what did you
(37:32):
think of when you first came across the TikTok phenomena
that has occurred? Well, I know him as Nathan. His
online name is dog Face, and it is quite believe
all hell was breaking loose because he made a decision
one day to do his thing. It happened in the
(37:54):
most charming way. And then someone said, well would you
would you? I said, well, I can't get on a skateboards.
I hung myself off the back of a of a
golf cart and did the thing. And the next thing
I know, we're all on halftime sports programs and god
knows what else his whole life has changed. Uh. And
(38:15):
I actually loved it because it was so not thought of.
One of the lovely things I was able to say
on a zoom call. He was doing an interview in
England with some very upstanding BBC chap and he had
no idea I was going to come on the zoom call.
So that's when I first met him, you know, face
to face, and and his family came on. They sang
(38:36):
songs to me and stuff, and I said, let me
tell you, Nathan Fleetwood macOS, it's been a fantastic moment
in time that that when a wall and typical Fleetwood Matt.
Just when you think, you know, we've survived, We've been
really lucky, you know, and so many some of the
(38:56):
things we've touched on in our talk, where as hopeless odds,
we've prevailed. And I always joke about, especially with Lindsey
Buckingham years ago. I used to sit with him and
you go like, we are the most abused rock and
roll franchise in the world. Meaning we've never capitalized on anything. Really,
(39:16):
we're all idiots, but it's sort of good and we're
still here. It's unbelievable. I mean again, I say this
because it's easy, and that is you're still here and
people are picking songs of yours too, soundtrack, they're kind
of playfulness, TikTok and so forth, because the music is great.
(39:38):
I mean you, and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh.
I love hypnotized. I love Mystery to me. I love
I love those early records. I play them to death.
I love everything the guys and then solo acts, Christie,
you know, Stevie, solo albums, blah blah blah. I love
it all. But I mean you. You live in people's
hearts because the music is that good. You guys made
(40:01):
some of the greatest music in the history of the
music that sins. Thank you so much now, it's been
an absolute pleasure. And I remember something my father said,
and it seems to really apply to a lot of
the storytelling about this funny life and most certainly Fleetwood
Mac and the fact that there have been all sorts
(40:22):
of ups and downs and around the Marlbury Bush and
pain and a lot of happiness as well. My dad
would always say one thing, Mick, I can tell you
it's all been worth a dam. And and hearing you
say that about the music makes me feel that it's
all been worth a dam. And thank you, lots of
loved you and my love to you, Nick Flipworthy and
(41:02):
the radio, I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the
thing from my heart. Radio can leave and you lad
(41:24):
no no K, I'm gonna I'm gonna be
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing
from I Heart Radio. That is, of course Dreams by
Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to a TikTok of some guy on
(00:26):
a skateboard who goes by the name dog Face lip
syncing to this song and his seventy two million views,
Fleetwood Max album rumors broke through Rolling Stones Top on
list again last year, more than forty years after its release.
My guest today is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of
(00:49):
Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac existed for nearly a decade before
the lineup we think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie,
Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie at Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood
Mac formed in London in the late nineties sixties, it
was Peter Green's idea. Well, I would be remiss. Peter
(01:10):
Green started Fleetwood Matt the original guitar player. I was
at his right hand side, John McVie. All of us
have played in the band called John Males Blues Breakers,
Eric McK taylor, Peter Green. They and I'm saying that
because they were represent great guitar players that came out
of that band that have more than made their mark
(01:32):
in my world. And so Peter asked me to play drums,
and I already had played with them in a funny
band with Rod Stewart for a short while, so we
won't go into that. So it was it was really
a team of people that Peter John mcvigh especially came
out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an
(01:52):
art form, the blues, and really all our heroes were
American blues artists, and you are well, aw I can
tell about the irony of of a bunch of funny,
little white kids in England really preserving an art form
that had long since been you know, I won't use
the bad word, but you know, pooped on by the
(02:14):
American sort of glossing over of something that was so evident.
So we were all from that framework and when we
formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely, semi
innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen
to the first few albums that we made before Peter
(02:37):
especially started really writing, like when you look at early
Rolling Stones, it's Bow Diddley and Chuck Berry and with
anyone you see the development into self expression and that's
what transpired afterwards. But the original band was all about
that and a little team of people sharing something and
(02:57):
having a lot of fun with it, you know, creatively
turned into something a little bit more than we ever
could have possibly have imagined. The year that you formed
the band with Green, what year was that seven Winstor
Jazz Festival and the band was called Fleetwood Mac by
Peter Green, who could have very easily become the Jeff
(03:20):
Beck or the Jimmy Page or the Eric Clapton gun
slinger guitar player. That's a whole another story. Is is
a lovely story and an attribute to Peter's generosity. We
played the Winstor Jazz Festival intending, as you can tell
with the name Fleetwood Mac. The name was my name
(03:40):
and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was still
playing in John Male's Blues Breakers on the same show.
Watched the band he's supposed to be in from from
the side of the stage, and about three months later
he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with
whatever amount of mon he does have, So when we
(04:02):
had enough gigs he said I'm ready to join, which
was of course when you made it worth my while.
When it worth I know there'll be no net loss
in my income. I'll meet you there at the club.
And that's what happened. And when you say that Green
could have been in this pantheon of great guitar players,
because it's something he didn't want. That he did not
(04:22):
want that level of fame and that level of attention. No,
it was very evident. And the end story, which of
course went into a very changed personally, he was my
dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know,
he gave me so much encouragement as a player and
super fun person but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive
(04:46):
than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized.
And he eventually became sick and so came to a
sort of journey that was for a while was living
a living tragedy for me, uh offishly. But then you
learned to accept him as he turned out. But back
then everything he did was about being just really generous.
(05:11):
And I read an article after you know you you think, well,
what was the real story, And for instance would be
that someone asked him why was the bank hall Fleetwood
mac And he said well, I figured at that point,
I've broken up with my lovely girlfriend Jenny, who are
later married, and I played with Peter, and he had
(05:33):
his eyes on another drummer, as it turned out, and
he said, why did you pick Mick? And of course
my little less than self would would have thought, well,
maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know.
And what it was, he said, I wanted Mike to
play the drums because I got so fed up with
seeing him so sad that I thought it would give
(05:54):
him something to do. And I thought that was the
greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend.
And that really sums it up about how it was
not about him. And he created a platform which served me. Well,
my father, it was an Air Force chap. So the
word to serve, to serve, Well, that's what I think
(06:16):
I learned to do. With all of how the madness
of this band and and and the incarnates of just
are you kidding me? That if you wrote this down
you would say, it's not possible this bunch could possibly
have survived with all of the ups and downs and
character changes and changing the script as you go along,
And yet there's still a story. Peter started that and
(06:38):
handed that to me. I think when he he welcomed everyone,
including me, Danny Cowen who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer.
They were all there so that Peter did not want
to be king Tut in the front there taking all
the limelight, and I think it was way more meaning
(07:00):
full in sense of of where he came from. It's
just he wanted to be in a band, and he
created that band and made sure the band was not
called Peter Green's anything, because he could are very easily,
and I always thank him for that. The name Fleetwood
Mac he was asked and he said, well, I always
thought that I would probably move on, which he did
(07:21):
under very strange circumstances, unfortunately for us. And he said
I wanted Mick and John to have something. And I
saw and heard this interview years and years and years
and years later. It's like finding out a family relative
will tell you what the real story was. And sometimes
(07:42):
it's mind blowing, and sometimes it's hugely moving and gratifying
to hear, and that was one of them. He didn't
start drumming till you were thirteen, correct officially, but yeah,
I would say I started hitting furniture when I was
about eight. What change when you were thirteen? You want
a drum? Now, on a serious level, what changed? Oh?
I would think that, first of all, been completely on
(08:06):
some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had had not
one iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So
there I was struggling with great parents. So I never
felt threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still
don't know my arthrobet or I mean, if my whole
family was lined up God forbid and said you don't
(08:29):
have to well, I know, but a lot of people say,
you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about
what I do when I play drums. I said, actually,
sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to tell
you the real truth, and and you go, well, it's not.
Then they start arguing with you, go, how can you
do that? You're full of ship, you know, you know?
I said, no, no, it just comes out. I have
(08:51):
no idea. So I blundered into it. But I would
think that the love and the one thing that I
could grab onto was the fact that I, for some reason,
I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned
to back in Norway when I was much younger and
we traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather little
(09:11):
funny we call them tuftos or something things stuff with
newspaper that sound really cool with their leather. Theyather sort
of out ottoman things, and and I Mom would listen
to the home service and do the cleaning and have
a Dubonne and have a one cigarette of the day.
This is when I was probably about six or seven
(09:32):
in Norway, and I remember listening to the radio and
tapping on I don't know why on furniture, but Daddy
used to tap on on coins and do military things
in his pocket and he would play bottles with water
in them at parties, so I vaguely remember that. I
don't think that's why I did it, but I think
(09:54):
my quantum lead was a blessing and it was like
a divine intervention of sorts that the one thing I
love doing. I had this obsession with collecting drum catalogs
and fantasies of gold and sparkling instruments that you know,
we're my dream. So at boarding school, the last thing
I did, I had this whole package filled with brushes,
(10:16):
opened one to the other, and I think I saw
my way out. And when Dad said, do you want
to go to college, and he didn't have any money,
but he was obviously making it available for me, and
with tears in our eyes, and I said, Daddy, I
want to go to London and play drums. And by
that time I had had my little drum kit, almost
(10:37):
a toy drum kit, in the house. And I think
it was my learning disability that drove me by Some
happened since both my sisters went into the arts. One
was a very fine actress, Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company,
and my elder sister was an art student at the Polytechnic,
so we were all completely academically use us. So I
(11:01):
had the blessing that Mom and Dad said, then, my god,
it's probably the only one thing he really thinks he
can do. And that wasn't encouraged you, absolutely just I
had complete and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever,
And they sent me off with a drum kit to
London wrapped in the blanket. My father wrote a poem
(11:22):
about it. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's
the thing If you love conversations with iconic musicians who
also happy to be members of long lasting bands, be
sure to check out my conversation with The Who's legendary
frontman Roger Daughtry from our Archives. Daughtry talked about the
(11:42):
first time he swung a microphone around on stage. No
one told me, I just yourself. Once they went into
the free form in the early days, the late sixties,
it just came out of boredom I was. I couldn't
stand here and be like Robert Plant. I wasn't tall enough.
I just needed to dance, but I didn't want to
dance like an ordinary dancer. So I just started to
(12:05):
play with it and it just got bigger and dig
energy and channel the energy. And then Pete started jumping,
and that legendary jump of him like a kangaroos. Really
and uh, but the whole thing was kind of in
with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it.
It was kind of extraordinary. Here the rest of my
conversation with Roger Daltrey that here's the thing dot Org.
(12:29):
After the break, we talked about the women who became
essential to the group's sound. I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're
(12:55):
listening to here's the thing. Damn, that's Christine McVie performing Songbird.
McVie joined Fleetwood mag in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left.
She had married John McVeigh a couple of years before
(13:16):
Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks joined in. I wanted to
know if when Christine joined there was any pressure to
include a woman. Well, Christine for sure, and any lovely
lady out there would not take it wrong. She was
a musician and she was a great piano player, and
(13:38):
her experience was already integrated with being I'm a player,
and it was nothing of the sort that it was
a woman or a man. It was just who you
are and what you do. Truly, it was that and
she cherishes that to this day because we call her
the rock. You know. She's like, she doesn't rely on
(14:00):
anything other than no pussy stuff. I am who I am,
and am I delivering what you need? And she has
that respect. So she came into the band as a player, literally,
and there was no thought she she knew John, which
had nothing to do with it. Part from is your
maiden name really perfect? Is it Christine? Perfect? Yeah? And
(14:21):
John would say she was perfect before she married me. Well, Jack,
so that was really it. It was not about having
a lady and about we need a girl. No, it
was about a really, really great musician, bloody good piano player.
Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true,
(14:44):
which is that in that world there is nobody who
cast a spell on me like Christine lick They. I mean,
I love her singing beyond belief. I mean, she just
she does something to me that I can't even describe.
She she singing is so beautiful. You know I can
second that, right. So she's with you in the band,
and then you decided to have another woman joined the band.
(15:05):
So Buckingham, you asked him to join the band. Yeah,
but Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, and
I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap
so he left. But prior to that, I've been in
the studio sound City to try and find a studio
to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves
(15:28):
and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having
heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of a
Buckham Nick Nick's album that he'd made with them, the
the album, and then Bob left and I made a
phone call and I said, you know that music you
were playing? Who What? How? And you're right, I was
(15:48):
looking for a guitar player. So I forever have Stevie
to this day in a comedic sense, but always with
a knife in my back. It wasn't really me that
you wanted, It was Lindsay, which was true, and in
very short form, Lindsay made it very clear that if
he was to join, which was not a slam dunk
(16:10):
at the beginning, because he and Stevie were thinking about
going forward in their own world, and she actually persuaded
Lindsay to join the band pretty much. She got fed
up with waiting tables and stuff, so she came somewhat
originally by default, and yet not because the real story
(16:31):
is it was very evident early on, although Stevie said,
you know loves to dig at me, it was that,
first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal to her and
I'm not going to do this without her. Boom over.
Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to realize these songs,
these beautiful songs were co written by both Lindsay and Stevie,
(16:55):
and then you listen to the vocal blend, which is
none other than going. When you hear the Evely Brothers,
you go like, oh my god, that has joined at
the hip. And they came in short form into the
band as a duo, which was merciful decision when I
look back that Lindsay did not desert he and and
(17:18):
said I'm here, but I'm here with my partner, and
that's how that happened. I've asked other very successful artists,
such as yourself in the music world, what does a
producer do for you? When you're in a studio, when
you're making a record. Who's the decider, who decides what
take what track, this vocal track, this drum track, whatever.
(17:39):
But when you had a collaboration with the producer that
helped you, what did they do for you? Well, I
think the simple form would be that we as a
band no matter what, which is not always there and
it's not always the magic formula. A lot of people
just totally excel by being guided and permanently told what
to do and have a mirror. That's a reflection from
(18:01):
another aspect, another interpretation of really who who they truly are,
and that's fine. That was so not how we grew
up into and blustered into what we were doing. So
I would say that anyone that that's worked, including Keith.
Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably the most
(18:23):
influential that he He was a blues fanatic and he
ran that little label we were on called Blue Horizon
and after that, so he would be picking songs here
and there with with Peter and the band. After that,
it's really about are you a band member meaning them?
How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not
(18:46):
insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in
a band. And that's what I would always look out for,
and I think that's been the our success has been
absolute suppression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's
really listening to and having an empathy with what am
(19:08):
I dealing with here, especially later on when we became
very much five separate, expressive people that whoever it was,
you have to look back on and give them huge
amounts of credit. Has been some form of a social
director more than an artistic director. And I lost all
(19:29):
my hair because I was both. But that would you
say when you say five separate, distinct beings, there was
a period when they weren't there were a unit, and
they were a unit during what period? And what was
that like and what what changed that? Musically? Well, Fleetwood
Mac was already a stage that existed, and Fleetwood Mac
(19:54):
was always about change, so that you were accepted for
who you were and one should express themselves. You know,
when I look back on it, that's in a naive
way what I must have understood, especially being a drama
when you go, well, what the hell am I going
to do if I don't have a frontline and people
that are delivering the play. You know, not to diminish
(20:19):
who I am and what I am. But that was
my function probably more than anything. So they came as
different characters walking on that stage, and if you see
and hear the music, you go none of it makes
any sense. None of them were clones of anyone. They
were all completely their own entity. So what they had
(20:40):
to learn was to be in a band. Everyone was
extremely unhappy emotionally and on the making of rumors and
Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's it's it's tough.
You know, no one ever intended to leave or anything.
But one time I remember sitting in the studio at
the record plant with Lindsay and he just turned and
I said, I don't know where I can do this,
(21:02):
you know, it's just, you know, we're in transition here.
And his interpretation was, can I be in a band?
Can I be in a band? Especially with the pressure
of is this what it's like being in a band?
You're emotionally exposed? And everyone was. We were all in,
you know, I'm drifting into the area where we promised
(21:24):
we wouldn't go. But so I just sat with him
and he was playing a star, remember it distinctly, and
I said, then you must go. If it's self preservation,
don't destroy that, don't destroy yourself because of the play
in essence Peter Green, Yeah, And I said I don't
have any ultimate apart from if it's that bad, then
(21:46):
you have to go. And then I segued and I said,
this is what it is. Everything is a compromise. When
you're walking on a stage and sharing that that stage
and this is that stage, and I'm not forcing you.
Extremely sad if halfway through an album you just can't
finish it out. And he didn't say much. He just said,
(22:08):
I understand, and he stayed. A guy once said to me,
and he was much younger than me, and this is
maybe like ten years ago, was in my early fifties.
It was in the lines of advice to him for
his career, and I said, well, do you really want
like the cold, hard unvarness. You want to put the
bark on or the bark off? And I said, if
you want to put the bark on, then don't get
(22:30):
married to your forty, don't have any kids to your forty.
Give yourself. You're not just your twenties, but your thirties.
Give this everything you have. If you want to be
an actor with a real prime if you want to
be Leo DiCaprio, you want to be a guy who's
like at the top of the pile and making movies
with the best director, of the best scripts. Everything's the best,
the budgets, the release dates, everything. If you want to
(22:50):
surf that wave all the way to the shore, then
you have to make this the most important thing in
your life. Do you find that that was true for
you as well? I think in retrospect we didn't know
because you're you're in it. But as a comment, I
think it's entirely correct and and and proven out in
no uncertain terms of time and time and time and
(23:10):
time and time and time. Again. Are the miracles that
slipped through and survive like a built in version of
what you've just said. In terms of advice, yeah, few
and far between. It really puts a wall that you
don't even realize that you're putting up, where you're so
into what you're doing that people get left out and
(23:32):
feel pushed away. So ideally, I think your your advice
is entirely correct, but that advice is always always in
retrospect for anyone. It's always always. But I'm wondering also
with three men, I mean as Asleep with Mac is
most renowned for its three men and two women, and
neither one of those women has children? Correct? Were the
(23:54):
people that they were going through life and they were like, well,
we're going to get to that, And the next year
they turned around they were like, wow, we like nothing.
You know, I would say if either Chris or Stevie,
I feel comfortable in this conversation saying there was no
doubt that they made that decision. Two dedicate their lives
(24:14):
to their careers with flashes of what if. But I
think both of these ladies would have no problem saying
that that was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah. Interesting,
very interesting. Now when people ask me about my drug use,
I say that I snorted a line of cocaine from
here to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine
(24:37):
on the rings of Saturn, and then we took it
home with another I'm sure is that possible? I think
your your description is that actually more far reaching than mine,
a planetary version, but my version of that would be
and I never lived it down. But you know, I
(24:59):
have no problem at all apart from don't go there.
And and then you have the war stories, which this
is sort of tending to be. And I'll preface it
by saying war stories are fine, but there's a time
and place and what can you learn from them would
be my little lesson for anyone listening. So, having said that,
my transgression was, which was some awful interview I did,
(25:23):
and I said, well, I one time, you know, I
was in the studio and I'm talking about my how
much coke do you think I've ever done? This was
like in our private world, and we measured out a
good semi fat line of cocaine and then duplicated it,
and then X amount of years, so in the last
something something amount of years we actually worked it out
(25:46):
instead of cutting tape and editing the song together. We
got into a transgression of actually working out probably about
how long would that line be? And it was seven
miles long apparently, And I never lived that down and
years al especially in England, whether they love all that
(26:07):
terrible stuff, and I have to sit there not talking
about and you would be like someone talking about something
in your life versus the play I'm in or the
script I've just written, or the book I've just you know,
and you go and you go like, well, live with it,
because you opened your mouth in the first place all
those years ago, and mine would be one of probably
(26:30):
quite a few transgressions in terms of that. But comedically
so I still get asked, you know, was it really
seven miles long? And I looked down to my trousers
and well, I wished, you know, I'm thirty five years sober.
I get sober a long time ago in l A.
(26:50):
For you, did you feel that when that stopped? Because
for me, when it stopped, there were good things, but
they were also bad things because you're forced to in
front of everything. You know, if you are if you
go out in the world and you don't drink and
you don't take drugs, and then I'm not commenting on you,
but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored and
you need to go out and face the world that
(27:11):
you need to resolve all your problems. You can't sit
in the problem anymore. You've got to resolve things and
confront things and clean up the mass and so forth.
And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically
once you stopped abusing yourself. Well, I still drink, but
the marching powder was a massive part of my life
(27:31):
for probably way over twenty years, just a long time.
I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle. So that's
a long time to have that that problem. Oh yeah,
I was known as the King of twot and everyone
would always know that I would wouldn't hold it, you know.
And then I did hit a brick wall and it
(27:53):
was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy would always say,
because they're hugely support, almost blindly supported, I's no problem
at all. Whenever he wants to stop it can stop. It,
you know, all those catchphrases, and I always sort of
thought that I could. And then I hit a brick
(28:13):
walk literally and someone that I shared my life with said,
I'm I'm done. I can't be around this anymore, and
I said, please don't go leave me alone for two days,
and that's what I did and never touched the stuff
since overnight. It's divine intervention, but it's also misplaced in
(28:40):
terms of that. That's when I probably should have gone
into a program and found out what you touched on,
what were those reasons? And I've done that since a
couple of times with drink and had a sort of
a wake up call, and I just thought it was fun.
I was around people telling me literally countless horror stories
(29:02):
of what had happened to them, especially when there were
children and young and I had no support and and
all sorts of terrible things, and I just said, I
feel so terrible because I just thought it was fun
until it wasn't. And I still actually haven't found the
key of what was that My parents didn't drink on.
Julie had an incredible supportive childhood, but that brick wall
(29:28):
was Was it insecurity about being in public? Maybe I
think being famous, I mean Fleetwood Mac I men, this
music was coming out of every clamshell on the beach
for a while. Every horse in the park was singing
you can go your own where you know. It was
like this music was everywhere, everywhere. There were so many
(29:49):
songs that were just washing over you. Was like in
the air all the time. Was that unsettling for you?
Fame and all that attention. Did you need to medicate
yourself to get through that period? I would say immediately
noticed how quickly I wan't no, But I do get
nervous about performing. If someone said make a speech and
read the speech to three thousand people, I would be
(30:15):
really put upon go out on stage and just talk
to someone I love, not even a question. I know
people around me that all of the trimmings of of
what you just mentioned would be. Was that something that
freaked you out? I have to say no, because of
the way I was brought up. It was just fantastic
(30:38):
and and fun and and but actually performing and delivering
certain aspects I would have to say, did bring out
a fundamental some form of academic calling out that you
don't know quite what you're doing, and therefore of shooting itself.
(31:01):
And therefore I know for a fact. For years and
I played sober for fifteen years, the real truth is
I didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I
have one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved,
and without it, I can't even breathe. And I've I've
(31:25):
tried hypnosis, I've tried everything known to mankind to get
over it and breathing, and I had a guy like
men meditating with me on the road when I really
really really really really didn't drink. All I can say
is that instead of enjoying myself, I had my road
manager with a brown paper bag so I could breathe
(31:46):
into it to stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't
enjoy it, and it's because of the element, which is
nothing to do with fame and fortune. It's actually who
are you? What are you in the moment and being
called out like being in the class that I didn't
I didn't know Mick Fleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing
(32:09):
on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. While you're there, leave us a review.
I really appreciate it. Few bands have managed to survive
longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we return the surprising resurgence
of interest in the band's seven album rumors, Yes, the
(32:47):
same kind of story, it seems. That's the song hypnotized
recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. Mick
Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for more
than fifty years. And as there's usually one person in
every long lasting band that brings them back together, I
(33:10):
asked who was that person for Fleetwood Mac. It would
be me and and that was and is and has
been my function. I imaged it a while ago. Not
nonely big deal. But I'm going like, because I don't write,
I don't sing, although I'm enjoying doing some of that now,
(33:30):
which is interesting, really actually interesting to be able to
make a private fool of yourself with no pressure. I said,
I think my story would be and I'm really happy
about it and quietly proud of it. That my function
was that I drifted into it, I learned it, and
(33:52):
me and John always wanted to have a band to
be in. Why wouldn't you? And I said, I think
that story, sorry, is my song. You're a musical catilog
can seen so many beautiful songs. It's beautiful music, and
the poetry is beautiful, and the lyrics it still moves
you to this day. Yeah. I take that as a
(34:15):
lovely compliment on behalf of all of us in this
crazy band, and thank you. And I think there is
sometimes almost the lighthearted part of Fleetwood Mac or whatever
word one wants to use, the sort of the poppy
part of it was always balanced out by a form
(34:36):
of reveal of a form of very often some romance
of of sadness, and entertaining that type of dialogue would
be for me is songbird, and there of course our others.
But I remember when Chris wrote that, and I actually
spoke very recently to her about it. We just drifted
(34:58):
into a conversation and she totally remembered, and I went, Chris,
this is like Edith pf on a stage alone. And
she was in the studio at the record plant, and
I said, this needs to be lonely. We should record
it in an empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio.
(35:20):
Let's go and do that. And we did, and we
went to college over in Berkeley and recorded that song.
As the imaging of it was so devastating to me.
I said, you are alone, You are alone playing this lovely,
lovely song, and it should be all of that. And
(35:40):
that's exactly what we did. It was. It was the
most pregnant suite moment around the song that I can tell.
In our short conversation, some including Stevie Nicks, and we
read about Dylan's going to sell his catalog and David
Crosby is getting ready to sell his catalog. And I
guess in this Cove era and beyond, in the age
(36:01):
of streaming music, people are seeing the sources of revenue
dry up. Certainly, some of these people are older, they're
you know, they're not selling their catalog and they're in
their thirties or whatever. But what do you think of them?
I think it's great. It is I'm sure it's not
for everyone or whatever. But I think the circumstances has
triggered so many things. This would be one of them.
(36:24):
I think that those decisions may or may not have
been made anyhow, who's to say why not? And a
body of work that is to be quite frankly translated
into all sorts of lovely things for these people, whatever
that might be. Because the people are talking about they
certainly don't need any money from the most part, but no,
(36:47):
well I say, let's say we doubt it. So it
becomes something that will grow into all sorts of other
things one would imagine. Um, what they might be is
their business, you know. And one of the things I
think his family. I think a lot of people are
handing down to family ahead of time versus you know,
(37:07):
people picking through when you're God forbid, whenever that moment comes.
And to see family enjoying stuff that can be allocated
before you do pop off. So, if I'm not mistaken,
Rumors is the best selling album again now as the
direct result of some guy on a skateboard swinging down
cranberry juice. What did you think and what did you
(37:32):
think of when you first came across the TikTok phenomena
that has occurred? Well, I know him as Nathan. His
online name is dog Face, and it is quite believe
all hell was breaking loose because he made a decision
one day to do his thing. It happened in the
(37:54):
most charming way. And then someone said, well would you
would you? I said, well, I can't get on a skateboards.
I hung myself off the back of a of a
golf cart and did the thing. And the next thing
I know, we're all on halftime sports programs and god
knows what else his whole life has changed. Uh. And
(38:15):
I actually loved it because it was so not thought of.
One of the lovely things I was able to say
on a zoom call. He was doing an interview in
England with some very upstanding BBC chap and he had
no idea I was going to come on the zoom call.
So that's when I first met him, you know, face
to face, and and his family came on. They sang
(38:36):
songs to me and stuff, and I said, let me
tell you, Nathan Fleetwood macOS, it's been a fantastic moment
in time that that when a wall and typical Fleetwood Matt.
Just when you think, you know, we've survived, We've been
really lucky, you know, and so many some of the
(38:56):
things we've touched on in our talk, where as hopeless odds,
we've prevailed. And I always joke about, especially with Lindsey
Buckingham years ago. I used to sit with him and
you go like, we are the most abused rock and
roll franchise in the world. Meaning we've never capitalized on anything. Really,
(39:16):
we're all idiots, but it's sort of good and we're
still here. It's unbelievable. I mean again, I say this
because it's easy, and that is you're still here and
people are picking songs of yours too, soundtrack, they're kind
of playfulness, TikTok and so forth, because the music is great.
(39:38):
I mean you, and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh.
I love hypnotized. I love Mystery to me. I love
I love those early records. I play them to death.
I love everything the guys and then solo acts, Christie,
you know, Stevie, solo albums, blah blah blah. I love
it all. But I mean you. You live in people's
hearts because the music is that good. You guys made
(40:01):
some of the greatest music in the history of the
music that sins. Thank you so much now, it's been
an absolute pleasure. And I remember something my father said,
and it seems to really apply to a lot of
the storytelling about this funny life and most certainly Fleetwood
Mac and the fact that there have been all sorts
(40:22):
of ups and downs and around the Marlbury Bush and
pain and a lot of happiness as well. My dad
would always say one thing, Mick, I can tell you
it's all been worth a dam. And and hearing you
say that about the music makes me feel that it's
all been worth a dam. And thank you, lots of
loved you and my love to you, Nick Flipworthy and
(41:02):
the radio, I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the
thing from my heart. Radio can leave and you lad
(41:24):
no no K, I'm gonna I'm gonna be
Host
Alec Baldwin
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