July 28, 2020 • 35 mins
Filipino-American filmmaker Ramona Diaz says each of her films is a “yearning for the motherland.” She’s in a unique position, as she says, able to “decode” the Philippines for the rest of the world. Her most recent film, A Thousand Cuts, tells the story of Filipino-American journalist Maria Ressa and the struggle for a free press and the crackdown on news media in the Philippines under President Duterte. In 2018, Ressa was an honoree when Time Magazine’s Person of the Year issue focused on “The Guardians and the War on Truth.” Alec sat down with director Diaz to talk about her newest film as well as her other documentaries. Diaz draws deep portraits and her subjects vary -- from well-known figures like Imelda Marcos, to women who’ve just given birth at Fabella Hospital in Manila -- the busiest maternity ward in the world.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
If you don't know Maria Ressa, you should and you
will once you watch A Thousand Cuts, a film that
will open in theaters and virtual theaters early next month.
Maria Ressa is a journalist based in the Philippines. In
two thousand eighteen, she was an honoree when Time Magazines
(00:26):
Person of the Year issue focused on quote, the Guardians
and the War on truth unquote. A Thousand Cuts follows
Ressa and tells a shocking story about the struggle for
a free press and the crackdown on news media in
the Philippines under President du Terte. It's a chilling movie
and a cautionary tale. A Thousand Cuts comes from My
(00:49):
Guest Today director Ramona Diaz. Born in the Philippines, Diaz
lives in the United States now. She came to the
US for film school at Emerson and Austin. Through her documentaries,
Diaz draws deep portraits, and her subjects vary from well
known figures like Amelda Marcos to women who have just
(01:10):
given birth at Fabella Hospital in Manila, the busiest maternity
ward in the world. I first encountered Diaz's work through
one of her earlier films, Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey.
Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey tells the story of
how Journey, Yes, Journey, the band that's created some of
(01:31):
the most beloved songs and rock music, needed a new
lead singer and ended up finding their singer, Arnell Pinta
in the Philippines over YouTube. And this was long before
the pandemic. Here's director Ramona Diaz. I got this email,
this crazy email from actually the console who was working
at the American Embassy in the Philippines, and it was
(01:54):
this crazy email about how are Nell had to sing
for his visa. It's a funny an email and I
never read these emails, but for some reason, I clicked
on that email. I found myself. You know, I'm like,
someone has to make this film. So I called my
manager in Los Angeles. I said, Peter, oh my god,
you have to read this email. Someone has to make
this film. And he gets back to he goes, you
(02:16):
gotta do it. I said, no, no, I'm finishing this
other film. I don't want to do it, and I
don't want to deal with favs speaking fall because I
just dealt with Emailda Marcos, who sued me. Actually that's
another story. I said, I I don't have the stomach
for it. Um and the music rides and stuff. Well,
one thing led to the other, and then pretty soon
they I was talking to their manager, John Barrett, and
(02:37):
he goes, see, I'll take it to the guys. I said, yeah,
you have a great story, but you know, we have
to follow him this year. And then maybe, like twenty
four hours later, John Barrett calls back and said, you know,
they don't think they have a story. Maybe next year.
I said, you don't have a story next year, you
have a story. This year. I'll make a deal with you.
I said, give me forty eight hours with the band
(02:57):
wherever they are, will come fly in, will for forty
eight hours, will cut a like s yeah, and proved
to them they have a story. So that's what we did.
We filmed them, I did an interview with our now
and the band together, um and some of that ends
up in the film submitted and then Irving as Off
saw it, the big manager and his wife, and the
(03:19):
wife cried and the wife said, you gotta do this.
So that's how it was done. And of course you know,
access is a um, it's a process. And they weren't
used to us being backstage or in their private spaces. Uh.
And it was explained to me that they came of
age pre MTV when those spaces were very sacred, and
(03:43):
then MTV sort of broke that open wide open. So
now like, of course all the newer bands were so
used to people being around and filming, but they weren't,
so they were very private. So it took a while.
Don't stop believing. Is of course much of it is
said in the Philippines and that you're from the Philippines
(04:04):
and you grow up there your entire life. I was
one and raised there and came here for college. Now
is it fair to say for people who don't know
the Philippines, which I don't, that is the Philippines like Canada.
And when I say that, I mean the whole country
lives in Toronto. The only place with is Manila. Does
everybody live in Manila? Is the only place with the
(04:24):
economy never in the rest of the country's terms. Maybe
there's another main city down south, simple, but Vanilla eclipses everything. Yes,
Like it's like I guess New York, right, or I
said Toronto, because every everybody that wants a career and
something important, they all go to that's business. Yeah, so
(04:44):
you leave there. How did you explain to your parents
that you were going to Boston to go to Emerson
to learn to make movies? What? What was the goal
back then? Meaning? Were you burning to make films where
you just wanted to put your toe in there and
take a look and see what that world was long.
I wanted to make films, yeah, because I grew up
on a diet of local films, local movies, you know,
(05:07):
the tours of the eighties and the Philippines Lena Broca
and we now Yeah. And also there was an Alliance
Frances and a Goody Institute that had German films and
French films. So I saw a lot of traffax and
I remember watching Um Day for Night. I was talked like,
I want to do that, and then I saw Worth
(05:30):
Mueller and um yes all that. It just I wanted
to make films. I wanted to make fiction films, and
so I left her Emerson. Had you lived in the
US before I had visited, you know, the West coast
San Francisco, that's where all the Filipinos visit, right, because
it's close community, big Filippino community, also Hawaii, but never
(05:53):
really the East Coast and never lived in winter, you know.
But that is of course very romantic again for me,
because it's something so exotic. My first time, I was like,
oh my god, I don't know what I was thinking
from the Philippines. I couldn't get up. I couldn't, you know.
So I scheduled all my classes after lunch because for
the life of me, I couldn't get up. To get
(06:13):
your blood flowing. Yeah, it was crazy, but I still
loved it, you know. I mean it's different, and Boston
was really I think good for me. Then. It's a
small enough but also close to New York and had
a lot of friends friends in New York, so I would,
you know, drive to New York or takes a train. Yeah,
and um, and I was exposed to a lot of
theater and films and so it was. It was amazing.
(06:36):
You started making films there when you were at Emerson. Yes,
so we started making small like, you know, three minute
films on sixteen so on film, real real film, yeah,
pre digital. I'm agent, you know, I'm myself yeah, pre digital,
it was all like hands on on the steam back,
(06:58):
cutting film by hand. You think different, right, you really
it's very intentional because when I think you're using video,
it's more this water holes approach. You know, you film everything,
but with film because it's expensive. You really are like
with cameras exactly, it's a different discipline. Now when you're there,
what was your thinking or feelings about making films when
(07:22):
you entered the program and how did it change by
the time you left. When you leave Emerson, what becomes
the plan. The plan was to go to l A.
I actually got an internship with MPTM Productions, Mary Tyler
More Productions. So it was saying elsewhere Hill Street Blues,
Remington's Steel. Now I was gonna ask you you and
what says here? You did Remington Steel for five years?
(07:44):
What did you do on Remington's Steels? The writer's assistant?
So you were the writer's room of the show. Yes,
oh my god. It was like the best job after college.
I thought all jobs were like that. Like you went
in you could go to the trailers still for breakfast,
they serve you lunch, and if you stay after six,
they serve your dinner. Right, my mother visited me in
Los Angeles and she opened my refrigerator and all there
(08:07):
was was water, bottled water and cigarettes because I used
to smoke. Then I don't want anymore. But that is
all because I didn't have to buy any groceries. I'm empty.
M fed me, and I thought, I love working. This
is the best job. For five years. You did the
one show, Yes, And then this is what's interesting to
me about your timeline. You go back to the Philippines. Yeah,
(08:27):
I was. I think, um, you know, because the revolution happened.
Um not, they're gone. They're gone. The dictator was gone.
The dictator was all I knew right growing up in
the Philippines. And I actually found out more about what
they did when I left the Philippines because there was
no freedom of the press, and I felt like, wow,
(08:49):
things are opening up, their building institutions out there. I
want to be part of that. So I did rather
be a filmmaker there. Yes, I thought I did, And
I got there and realize that infrastructure wasn't there. I
mean the dreams were there, but there was no intentions
were there. Yes, But then that's also when I got
interested in documentaries because all the stories were happening on
(09:11):
the streets, but there was no I didn't have the
wearithal I. I don't know how to do it, you know.
That's why I left to go back to grad school.
I went back to Stanford just to find out. You know, hey,
can I do this now? The first film you make
feature length doc is yes? No? No. When you decide
(09:32):
to make a film about you know, this legendary figure,
do you sit down? Is your process one that involves
some writing and some you putting down on paper your
thoughts about how am I going to portray email DeMarcus
in a way that she hasn't already been portrayed five
times before. Yes, she's a very famous figure. It's reading
everything everything about her, about what she's written about herself,
(09:57):
writing my own thoughts, because I think my films are
always to me, their explorations, and I want people to
change my mind, like I wanted her to change my
mind about her, right, That's why not so much? Well,
in a way that I didn't think she was silly.
I think she's very smart. So people dismissed her as
being still in naive. Yah, yeah, but she's not. She's
(10:18):
smart with a lot of money and shopping. She's very strategic,
she's she's got a good political mind. So I went
back and forth for two years. I also had to
raise the money. It was my first film. How do
you how do you uh, you know, just walk up
to the royal palace or her private home and ring
the doorbell. How does that connection? My thesis film was
(10:40):
about the revolution. It was called Spirits Rising. And I
have this crazy notion of also interviewing Mrs Marcus for
that film. And I was there with a student crew
and someone suggested, you know, if you want Mrs Marcus,
you have to figure out where one of her son
is and then corner him and ask him to ask her.
(11:00):
And I'm like, okay, I can do that. So I
crashed a cocktail party actually, and I asked him. I said, listen,
I'm a Stanford student. I'm here for like two weeks.
We're filming this thing about the revolution. I really want
your mother's voice in it. And I handed him the
letter and he was he a fan of documentary film.
(11:21):
Why do you think he did it? I have no
idea why he did it. I have no and I
lost hope. I'm like, okay, he's never going to get
back to me, because he said, oh, that's interesting. Do
you think even he had his doubts about his parents legacy? Maybe,
but they are there there. They are Marcus children. You know,
they're loyal, very loyal. But at the same time, they
(11:42):
wouldn't mind having, you know, another generation. They want more truth. Yes,
especially I said, I wanted to hear from her because
I had all these other women in the film who
were talking from the opposition, and I wanted to hear
from inside the palace what was happening. They were about
to leave, and the first time you meet her described
(12:03):
that where are you? We were invited. So this was
a very very last day ever shoot. I had given up,
and then her assistant calls me and says, well, Mrs
Marcus can see you for fifteen minutes, but you're not
allowed to talk about the revolution. I'm like, that's okay.
My films about the revolution, but that's okay fifteen minutes
with I'll take it. So she invitses us to her
(12:25):
condo in Makati, which is a business capital in the Philippines,
very luxurious, you know, penthouse condo. Um. She invites us in,
surrounded by help, yes, her security guards were there, um
and I expected to spend fifteen minutes with her, and
we spent five hours with her. She was ready to talk,
(12:49):
could not stop talking, and then she brought up the revolution,
so I felt like, okay, then it's fair game, right,
I didn't bring it up. She did five hours, five hours,
and at the end of the five hours, you know,
we were filming a movie. Yeah, And I asked, I said,
Mrs Marcus, I want to make a film just about
you through your point of view. So it was very
clear to me that I wanted it from her point
(13:10):
of view, her telling her story before you know, whatever
she goes. That's a great idea me, you want to
and she you know. Then my my idea of her
was very much Sunset Boulevard, you know, Norma Desmond and
her really wonderful you know, condor in the sky, but
(13:32):
really lonely and wanted to tell her story. And that's
why I think she said, yes. She winds up spending
a lot of time with her, Yes, a lot, and
she was so she had more energy than we did,
and we were, of course much younger than her passing
out and she's mid story. She would not sleep, I mean,
(13:53):
and every morning, bright and early. She was still she
was like quafft and put together, Well, we're like that, yes,
and she ever were there any moments where that cracked
some moments she was very very controlled, very controlled. She
was very aware. She was very good at being a
mal DeMarco. Yes, because for twenty years of their life,
(14:16):
you know, there when they were in power, camera crew
followed her, so she was very used to that. There
was one time we were entering a restaurant. She and
that she was entering with her, and she pulled me back.
She goes, you watch when I enter. There's going to
be a lull in the conversation, just a lull, and
then it will go because I entered. I said, okay,
miss Marcus, let's observe that. And we entered, and there
(14:38):
is there was a law. People sort of acknowledged her
and then went on with the life. She goes, it's
always been that way. So you, I mean, obviously she
doesn't have any rights or approvals or authorities over the film.
She relinquished all of that to you. She did. Um
and so uh we premiere at Sundance as well in
(15:01):
A four and you have a Filipino premiere yes, we
Actually it was a very email. There was the very
first documentary that was really theatrically in the Philippines. But um,
right before I release in the Philippines, she sued us.
She sued my distributors. There was a temporary restraining order
and why because she felt like I sullied her good name,
(15:23):
an invasion of privacy. But she's a public figure, so
the invasion of privacy was thrown out. And selling her
good name, well, she said, meld Marca. So that was
really tough. So the movie, I mean, I'm being glid here,
but so the movie didn't kiss her ass enough as
far as she was concerned. As far as no see,
when she first saw it, she was okay with it.
She was like, she had some problems. The harshest thing
that you say in the film, well she talks. It's
(15:46):
all her words. So she talks about the assassination of
Theia Kuino and that they had nothing to do with
it because if they would have done it, they would
have done it in the dark of night, not in
broad daylight. It's like, who does that? So she does?
I mean she really she hangs herself basically because she
that's Mrs Marcos. So when she first saw the film
(16:06):
right before the premier at Sundance, UM had a courtesy
screening for her. She had a few problems with it,
but she knew she didn't have final cut. Fast forward
six months later, we had a theatrical release here in
in the US. So she all the reviewers, of course,
you know Times, La Times, Washington Post reviewed the film,
(16:27):
and they all called it like a pariah, delusional all that.
Suddenly she saw herself through the eyes of the reviewers
and did not like it, so she sued us. In
the Philippines, that was the only time where it was
thrown out, and we opened so big in the Philippiness
half that because what she did was she had like
a news conference every day of the trial, and so
(16:48):
we so much so that people were saying that we
colluded with her to make this like a big, big hit,
but we did not. But no, it was thrown out.
So when you you get sued, the case is dismissed
and when you what's your next film? My next film
is about teachers being recruited in the Philippines to teach
an inner city Baltimore. Because I traveled so much with
(17:08):
the Maldown, my daughter was growing up. I wanted to
stay home, so I really literally a film in my backyard.
And Um, I read the story in the Baltimore Sun
that they were recruiting teachers from the Philippines, which was
so odd to me. There was a shortage of science
teachers because of course all the science teachers were going
to the suburbs, you know, where they're more well resource schools.
(17:31):
So they were recruiting from overseas, and the Philippines was
a hub because we speak English right, and our educational
system is set up like the American educational system because
of the forty years of um Commonwealth room and and
so I said, wow, and inner city in Baltimore, something
(17:51):
will happen in that classroom. And one thing that to another. Again,
I was given access. I asked the public school officials
and they said sure. And I was given like carte
blanche access to the schools. I'm not sure they do
that now, but that was my No one's giving carte
blanche to access to journalists and cameras to anybody anymore,
no more terrified. Um. Yes, So I followed like four
(18:12):
teachers during the freshman year teaching in Baltimore City. It
turned out to be a very hopeful film because it's
two marginalized groups of people found community in the classroom.
You know, it was it was quite something. Where's the
money coming from to make both the Marcos film in
this film public television? Is it you tax dollars? As
(18:37):
well as with with Emelda Yes. So after the school
a story and you're in Baltimore, what comes next? Journey?
I was finishing the learning and so Journey Um Journey.
In oh seven, they were looking for a new lead
(18:57):
singer because so Jerry got cancer. Yeah, uh, he could
no longer do it. And Neil Sean, who is one
of the co founders of the band, wanted you know,
had heard all the cover bands in the US, but
wanted something different. So he trolled YouTube, right, he went,
of course, where do you go? YouTube? And he just
kept looking and looking looking YouTube, and then he found
(19:19):
this guy Arnel Pinetta who was in the Philippines singing
in some at the hard Rock Cafe in Manila, and
he was like just enamored of him and called all
his band members. The next day, called Jonathan Kane and
said I found the guy. And Jonathan was like he's
in Manila. I don't think so. I mean, how can
we even bring him exactly? And he was not known.
(19:42):
Arnell was not unknown singer. He was not famous at all.
But one thing that to another. They got his visa,
he flew out to San Francisco, he auditioned, and he
got the gig, and um so the lead singer for
the biggest crowd he had ever performed for pre was
the journey was like two people. Suddenly was in Vina
(20:03):
del Mar singing to like millions of people. And so
that part, that part is in the film, the first
time he sings to like a really large journey crowd.
More from director Ramona Diaz coming up. If you like
documentary films as much as I do, I hope you
will listen to my conversation with filmmaker Joe Burlinger. I
(20:25):
believe the audience should be treated like a jury. You
give them the information and your way both sides, and
you let them come to their own conclusion. You can
hear more from Burlinger in our archives. And here's the thing,
Dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
(20:50):
Here's the Thing. Ramona diaz is most recent film a
Thousand cuts tells the story of Filipino American journalist Maria Ressa.
It's really a window into the country and the government
led by President du Terte. Ramona Diaz has lived in
the United States for most of her adult life, but
the Philippines remains a central to her work. I think
(21:12):
I make films because it's a yearning for the motherland.
Every film is a yearning. What do you love about
the Philippines. I go back there because I find it
somehow hopeful that something will change, and then it gets
very frustrating. So it's both a love hate relationship and
it's everything I know, right, it's everything deeply I know.
(21:33):
I know that country deeply, um, and I was still
a lot of friends and I always have hope for it.
And that's why I think I keep going back, and
that's why I keep making those stories. And it's also
to decode I think what's happening in the Philippines to
the Western world. I think I'm in a space where
I can do that. I've lived enough in this country
(21:53):
to be able to do that, so I'm both inside outside.
That's why I love going back. Um Trump is someone
who you know both Snaro is someone who he considers
himself like minded with Terte, he considered himself is a
hero to him. Do you realize now, in the time
of Trump, what's happened in your country can happen here
(22:15):
as well. Yes, so quickly too, because if you're not vigilant,
you know, if you don't get fraid of it. Yeah,
it goes away so quickly. It's so amazing how fragile
it is. But the thing about the US is your
institutions are much stronger. The reason in the Philippines thinks
(22:35):
changed so quickly in six months because the institutions are
not that strong. Well the interview, You're very right. The
institutions are stronger in spite of Trump, but they're significantly
weaker than since he took over. He tried to destroy
those institutions. Yes, But but for people who don't understand,
I want them to see the movie. The movie is
called A Thousand Cuts, and it's just depressing as hell.
(22:57):
I mean, it's really depressing. You don't find a hopeful um,
I mean I I find it a little bit hopeful.
I find Duterte I find art because he's unbridled by
many of the stop gaps we have in this country.
When Trump says I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue
(23:17):
and and I could get away with it, Tete is
literally shooting people on Fifth Avenue and getting away. He's
literally doing that, bragging about it, and then very I mean,
he is a monster. He's a very, very very unique
individual in terms of his uh, in terms of the
depths of his hatred. He seems to be soaked and
(23:39):
he really traffics and fear. He really thinks fear. What
do you think he became that way? Did you talk
to anybody who had insights to him earlier in his career?
Has he always been this way? I think it's always,
you know, he used to He's the son of a governor,
so although he's an outsider politician, he still comes from
a very political family. So he was surrounded always by
(24:00):
cops and security guards, and he's I think that's what
he grew up with, you know, just a culture of
killing or people killing or stories of killing. So to him,
I think it just comes naturally to talk about killing.
Everything is killing. It's really quite incredible, But no one
has ever outraged. I think that's my That's what I'm
(24:23):
surprised at because people just laugh and they're not outraged.
I mean, as he saw in the film, he talks
about like female parts in this really crude way, and
people are laughing. The outrage isn't there? Do people mark
in his career? Do you see in a timeline of
his career, uh, when he turned became more plane speaking
(24:46):
in terms of violence and killing people. What was before
he was president? What was he? He was the mayor
of dobo Uh town in the south and crime ridden
that he cleaned up. And that's why he won because
you know, there was a myth that he cleaned up
he delivered and cleaned up Da Vow. How did he
clean up Da Vow? Well, the same way he's cleaning
(25:09):
up Manila basically death spots. Yeah, the same thing. He did,
the same thing. And and because of that, he was
mythical when he said when he when he ran um,
he was mythic and and everyone thought, okay, he can
do that here Manilla to clean up Manila. But the
thing is, Manilla's not Da Vow. And he's still I
(25:29):
think he's still in his mindset is still a mayor,
small town mayor. But now he's president, right, and so
he hasn't made that shift. Even after three years. He's
still micromanaging everything. And the most powerful courts, uh that
could stop him. The most powerful courts in your country
(25:49):
that could have some influence over him, are they elective
or they appointed? We have an appointed Supreme Court, but
they are all disappointed. His appointees. Now, the one was
the loudest voice against him, he he got rid of.
I mean you know, he fired, right, and then the
(26:12):
loudest voice in the Senate, Senator Delima, he imprisoned. Right,
So all branches of government still in prison after three
years now, So all branches of government are really under
his control. And that's why they say he no longer.
He doesn't even have to proclaim martial law, right, there's
no need because they're all under his control. They've given
(26:35):
him all the the tools of martial law without asking
for exactly. You went back there to shoot the film
and you interviewed him. No, but we were given access
to be so we were like closest to him, like
in the pit, which was very rare because he doesn't
like anyone the press near him. But for some reason
(26:57):
he allowed us in the pit, and so we were
really close to when he gave all those speeches you
were afraid about what would happen to you from the
outcome of this film. Marcos gave you all that access
and you made this film, and she was disappointed. I
can't imagine what the possibilities are disappointed. You know what,
Maria was not afraid. Maria Russell was a protagonist. So
(27:19):
I felt like, Wow, then I can't be afraid, right,
I mean, of course fear was there, right, But I'm
a documentary filmmaker. I think I'll regret it forever if
I didn't do it, So sort of the fear outweighed
and kind of you don't imagine um regret. But is
there a resistance there that has expressed any hope of
(27:40):
killing him? Oh, that's a whole other conversation. Assuming political
assassination has happened in this country. I mean, we've had
a political I'm assuming. I wonder if people who really
want to save the Philippines. But they say, he's always
imagining coups and and you know, cop attempts and cool theories. Yeah,
(28:02):
he's always poised for a curl always. That's right. Um,
let's talk about Maria Arressa in the film one thousand cuts.
Who is Maria Arressa. Maria Arressa in the film is
the loudest voice, I guess speaking up against She is
a woman who is fighting for press freedom in the country.
(28:23):
She's been a journalist for thirty years. She was a
face of CNN Asia for a long time. She was
the head of Beurey, chief of CNN Indonesia and then
CNN Philippines, and then went on her own and founded Rappler,
which is a completely like digital news site in the Philippines.
(28:43):
And when Arta became president, they were the first ones
to really question the drug war and the numbers and
they're like the intercept yeah, exactly, very very muscular truth seekers. Yes,
and the data was not happy. And in turn Is
threatens her with eleven cases just to shut her up,
and yet she does not stop. She just speaks up.
(29:07):
So they he went after them and started tried to
shut them down and has filed eleven cases against Maria,
all stemming from tax evasion and anti dummy messing with her. Yes. Basically,
so because they questioned, I mean, they're the loudest voice
against the terriative, because the opposition is really fragmented and
(29:28):
not not very you know, not very effective these days.
And did you get an impression. I'm sure you did,
but I want to ask, did you get an impression
when you were interviewing Maria? Why does she do what
she does? What's her? She always says, She always says
that she has no choice, like the baton was passed
(29:49):
to her and she has to do a chess to
stand up to duty. Yes, right, she can't not do it,
just like I can't not make the film right because
I think the regret. You have to do it. You
have to speak up because as a journalist, then what
do you stand for if you don't speak up during
these times right when you really have to fight. So
(30:10):
she feels like she has no choice, but we all
know we all have choices. We just make the choice
that we feel we can um uh not regrets. What's
interesting to me? What's unusual about Maria Ressa? I never
met Gandhi. I don't think I've ever actually watched actual
footage of the real Gandhi. I might have. I only
know Gandhi as he was portrayed in films and stuff
(30:32):
with Ben Kingsley. Maria Ressa has what I imagine is
a Gandhi esque level of patience and tolerance. You never
see them get to her. She never lets it get
to her. She has the most unimaginable level of self
control I've seen in a human being in my lifetime.
(30:53):
And it's genuine, right because we spent so many hours
where there we saw that you're not some it's genuine
because she feels like it's counterproductive to go down that road.
She has a job to do. She's going to do it.
She's so self actualized in that way. It's it's mesmerizing,
it is. And yeah, they messed with her so much,
and she's like, hey, what do you want me to do?
(31:14):
You want to see these papers? Sure, okay, you could
arrest me. Okay. You never see her act out or
or or, which is a problem sometimes because she I'm like,
oh my god, people, will people really get that she's
in trouble because she's smiling too much? But then I
guess people do. That's her, that's what she is, And
I think that's part of the charm and part of
(31:37):
sort of this irony and the tension between what she
is and what's happening to her. Really works. When you
showed Maria the film. What did she think? She's been
on camera a lot of her life, so wasn't overwhelmed.
She you know, people are I think are always surprised
when they when they see themselves in that situation because
they never they always forget what you capture, right, Because
(31:59):
we were her for months and months and months, she
had no idea how we were going to put it together,
and as a journalist, she tried helping us. You know,
it's like do you want to do this? Do you want?
And we're like no, no, no, no, you do what
you want and then we'll just follow you. This is
what we do. We're not journalists. You do something different,
We do something different. So when she saw it as
a whole, she was like, oh my god, you captured everything.
(32:23):
I'm like, yeah, because we were with you, And I
think seeing it as a whole just brought her back
to those moments that she hasn't really had time to
reflect on, and so I think it was really powerful,
especially when she saw the Sundance with like the whole
round No no for you describe if you will, what's
it been like for you as a woman making films.
(32:43):
What's been the unique challenge for about that um, people
trusting that I can do it, you know, but the
convincing them, right, I mean that's changed in your lifetime. Atana, Yes, well,
especially with a thousand cuts I got. I raised that
my very quickly because it was imperative that I'd be
shooting quickly, and they just said sure here, well no,
(33:07):
I make it. Sounds so easy. But it was like
a whole here, just go and do it, and here's
the whole entire budget whatever we asked for. Which is
the first for me? Yes, it was the first. And
I'm like, I want to make movies with you. I
want to work for you. I'm not sure if that's
going to ever happen again, but I was like, wow,
(33:28):
maybe not because it's just content. Right. People were looking
for a film about tear. They couldn't quite figure out what.
I couldn't quite figure out what I thought. I wanted
to do it on the drug war exclusively until I
met Maria. Then I thought, oh my god, she is
a protagonist. And yeah, I mean sometimes they just fall
(33:48):
on you that, sometimes they enter the room. So as
a woman filmmaker, things have gotten a bit easier if
you're over these just a little bit easier because I
think I've also like staked my claim. There's I haven't
niche right and I'm good films under your belt? What
are you working on now? Can you say? Uh say,
(34:10):
I can't say. It's like a docuseries. But I also
want to do fiction, so I've been trying to make
a fiction. I just have to stop doing documentaries. In
order to write, as you know, you need space and
time and quiet and stillness. So I'm actually trying to
make a feature of Imaalda. I'm making it into liked piece.
(34:33):
There's a lot there, Yeah, and I would be able
to get that job done in two hours. Seriously, I
mean that could be maybe a right, a streaming series,
but don't stop. Is being um made into a fiction narrative? Yeah,
at Universal somewhere. Now we're going to have to have
(34:55):
I should say now, they're going to have to have
a talent search to find exactly the kid that was
the subject of the talent search. Meta casting is ongoing,
I'm told, in case anyone out there thinks this might
be their calling. Ramona Diaz's latest film, A Thousand Cuts,
(35:16):
will be out in theaters and virtual theaters on August seven.
I hope you'll make a point to see it. This
is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
If you don't know Maria Ressa, you should and you
will once you watch A Thousand Cuts, a film that
will open in theaters and virtual theaters early next month.
Maria Ressa is a journalist based in the Philippines. In
two thousand eighteen, she was an honoree when Time Magazines
(00:26):
Person of the Year issue focused on quote, the Guardians
and the War on truth unquote. A Thousand Cuts follows
Ressa and tells a shocking story about the struggle for
a free press and the crackdown on news media in
the Philippines under President du Terte. It's a chilling movie
and a cautionary tale. A Thousand Cuts comes from My
(00:49):
Guest Today director Ramona Diaz. Born in the Philippines, Diaz
lives in the United States now. She came to the
US for film school at Emerson and Austin. Through her documentaries,
Diaz draws deep portraits, and her subjects vary from well
known figures like Amelda Marcos to women who have just
(01:10):
given birth at Fabella Hospital in Manila, the busiest maternity
ward in the world. I first encountered Diaz's work through
one of her earlier films, Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey.
Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey tells the story of
how Journey, Yes, Journey, the band that's created some of
(01:31):
the most beloved songs and rock music, needed a new
lead singer and ended up finding their singer, Arnell Pinta
in the Philippines over YouTube. And this was long before
the pandemic. Here's director Ramona Diaz. I got this email,
this crazy email from actually the console who was working
at the American Embassy in the Philippines, and it was
(01:54):
this crazy email about how are Nell had to sing
for his visa. It's a funny an email and I
never read these emails, but for some reason, I clicked
on that email. I found myself. You know, I'm like,
someone has to make this film. So I called my
manager in Los Angeles. I said, Peter, oh my god,
you have to read this email. Someone has to make
this film. And he gets back to he goes, you
(02:16):
gotta do it. I said, no, no, I'm finishing this
other film. I don't want to do it, and I
don't want to deal with favs speaking fall because I
just dealt with Emailda Marcos, who sued me. Actually that's
another story. I said, I I don't have the stomach
for it. Um and the music rides and stuff. Well,
one thing led to the other, and then pretty soon
they I was talking to their manager, John Barrett, and
(02:37):
he goes, see, I'll take it to the guys. I said, yeah,
you have a great story, but you know, we have
to follow him this year. And then maybe, like twenty
four hours later, John Barrett calls back and said, you know,
they don't think they have a story. Maybe next year.
I said, you don't have a story next year, you
have a story. This year. I'll make a deal with you.
I said, give me forty eight hours with the band
(02:57):
wherever they are, will come fly in, will for forty
eight hours, will cut a like s yeah, and proved
to them they have a story. So that's what we did.
We filmed them, I did an interview with our now
and the band together, um and some of that ends
up in the film submitted and then Irving as Off
saw it, the big manager and his wife, and the
(03:19):
wife cried and the wife said, you gotta do this.
So that's how it was done. And of course you know,
access is a um, it's a process. And they weren't
used to us being backstage or in their private spaces. Uh.
And it was explained to me that they came of
age pre MTV when those spaces were very sacred, and
(03:43):
then MTV sort of broke that open wide open. So
now like, of course all the newer bands were so
used to people being around and filming, but they weren't,
so they were very private. So it took a while.
Don't stop believing. Is of course much of it is
said in the Philippines and that you're from the Philippines
(04:04):
and you grow up there your entire life. I was
one and raised there and came here for college. Now
is it fair to say for people who don't know
the Philippines, which I don't, that is the Philippines like Canada.
And when I say that, I mean the whole country
lives in Toronto. The only place with is Manila. Does
everybody live in Manila? Is the only place with the
(04:24):
economy never in the rest of the country's terms. Maybe
there's another main city down south, simple, but Vanilla eclipses everything. Yes,
Like it's like I guess New York, right, or I
said Toronto, because every everybody that wants a career and
something important, they all go to that's business. Yeah, so
(04:44):
you leave there. How did you explain to your parents
that you were going to Boston to go to Emerson
to learn to make movies? What? What was the goal
back then? Meaning? Were you burning to make films where
you just wanted to put your toe in there and
take a look and see what that world was long.
I wanted to make films, yeah, because I grew up
on a diet of local films, local movies, you know,
(05:07):
the tours of the eighties and the Philippines Lena Broca
and we now Yeah. And also there was an Alliance
Frances and a Goody Institute that had German films and
French films. So I saw a lot of traffax and
I remember watching Um Day for Night. I was talked like,
I want to do that, and then I saw Worth
(05:30):
Mueller and um yes all that. It just I wanted
to make films. I wanted to make fiction films, and
so I left her Emerson. Had you lived in the
US before I had visited, you know, the West coast
San Francisco, that's where all the Filipinos visit, right, because
it's close community, big Filippino community, also Hawaii, but never
(05:53):
really the East Coast and never lived in winter, you know.
But that is of course very romantic again for me,
because it's something so exotic. My first time, I was like,
oh my god, I don't know what I was thinking
from the Philippines. I couldn't get up. I couldn't, you know.
So I scheduled all my classes after lunch because for
the life of me, I couldn't get up. To get
(06:13):
your blood flowing. Yeah, it was crazy, but I still
loved it, you know. I mean it's different, and Boston
was really I think good for me. Then. It's a
small enough but also close to New York and had
a lot of friends friends in New York, so I would,
you know, drive to New York or takes a train. Yeah,
and um, and I was exposed to a lot of
theater and films and so it was. It was amazing.
(06:36):
You started making films there when you were at Emerson. Yes,
so we started making small like, you know, three minute
films on sixteen so on film, real real film, yeah,
pre digital. I'm agent, you know, I'm myself yeah, pre digital,
it was all like hands on on the steam back,
(06:58):
cutting film by hand. You think different, right, you really
it's very intentional because when I think you're using video,
it's more this water holes approach. You know, you film everything,
but with film because it's expensive. You really are like
with cameras exactly, it's a different discipline. Now when you're there,
what was your thinking or feelings about making films when
(07:22):
you entered the program and how did it change by
the time you left. When you leave Emerson, what becomes
the plan. The plan was to go to l A.
I actually got an internship with MPTM Productions, Mary Tyler
More Productions. So it was saying elsewhere Hill Street Blues,
Remington's Steel. Now I was gonna ask you you and
what says here? You did Remington Steel for five years?
(07:44):
What did you do on Remington's Steels? The writer's assistant?
So you were the writer's room of the show. Yes,
oh my god. It was like the best job after college.
I thought all jobs were like that. Like you went
in you could go to the trailers still for breakfast,
they serve you lunch, and if you stay after six,
they serve your dinner. Right, my mother visited me in
Los Angeles and she opened my refrigerator and all there
(08:07):
was was water, bottled water and cigarettes because I used
to smoke. Then I don't want anymore. But that is
all because I didn't have to buy any groceries. I'm empty.
M fed me, and I thought, I love working. This
is the best job. For five years. You did the
one show, Yes, And then this is what's interesting to
me about your timeline. You go back to the Philippines. Yeah,
(08:27):
I was. I think, um, you know, because the revolution happened.
Um not, they're gone. They're gone. The dictator was gone.
The dictator was all I knew right growing up in
the Philippines. And I actually found out more about what
they did when I left the Philippines because there was
no freedom of the press, and I felt like, wow,
(08:49):
things are opening up, their building institutions out there. I
want to be part of that. So I did rather
be a filmmaker there. Yes, I thought I did, And
I got there and realize that infrastructure wasn't there. I
mean the dreams were there, but there was no intentions
were there. Yes, But then that's also when I got
interested in documentaries because all the stories were happening on
(09:11):
the streets, but there was no I didn't have the
wearithal I. I don't know how to do it, you know.
That's why I left to go back to grad school.
I went back to Stanford just to find out. You know, hey,
can I do this now? The first film you make
feature length doc is yes? No? No. When you decide
(09:32):
to make a film about you know, this legendary figure,
do you sit down? Is your process one that involves
some writing and some you putting down on paper your
thoughts about how am I going to portray email DeMarcus
in a way that she hasn't already been portrayed five
times before. Yes, she's a very famous figure. It's reading
everything everything about her, about what she's written about herself,
(09:57):
writing my own thoughts, because I think my films are
always to me, their explorations, and I want people to
change my mind, like I wanted her to change my
mind about her, right, That's why not so much? Well,
in a way that I didn't think she was silly.
I think she's very smart. So people dismissed her as
being still in naive. Yah, yeah, but she's not. She's
(10:18):
smart with a lot of money and shopping. She's very strategic,
she's she's got a good political mind. So I went
back and forth for two years. I also had to
raise the money. It was my first film. How do
you how do you uh, you know, just walk up
to the royal palace or her private home and ring
the doorbell. How does that connection? My thesis film was
(10:40):
about the revolution. It was called Spirits Rising. And I
have this crazy notion of also interviewing Mrs Marcus for
that film. And I was there with a student crew
and someone suggested, you know, if you want Mrs Marcus,
you have to figure out where one of her son
is and then corner him and ask him to ask her.
(11:00):
And I'm like, okay, I can do that. So I
crashed a cocktail party actually, and I asked him. I said, listen,
I'm a Stanford student. I'm here for like two weeks.
We're filming this thing about the revolution. I really want
your mother's voice in it. And I handed him the
letter and he was he a fan of documentary film.
(11:21):
Why do you think he did it? I have no
idea why he did it. I have no and I
lost hope. I'm like, okay, he's never going to get
back to me, because he said, oh, that's interesting. Do
you think even he had his doubts about his parents legacy? Maybe,
but they are there there. They are Marcus children. You know,
they're loyal, very loyal. But at the same time, they
(11:42):
wouldn't mind having, you know, another generation. They want more truth. Yes,
especially I said, I wanted to hear from her because
I had all these other women in the film who
were talking from the opposition, and I wanted to hear
from inside the palace what was happening. They were about
to leave, and the first time you meet her described
(12:03):
that where are you? We were invited. So this was
a very very last day ever shoot. I had given up,
and then her assistant calls me and says, well, Mrs
Marcus can see you for fifteen minutes, but you're not
allowed to talk about the revolution. I'm like, that's okay.
My films about the revolution, but that's okay fifteen minutes
with I'll take it. So she invitses us to her
(12:25):
condo in Makati, which is a business capital in the Philippines,
very luxurious, you know, penthouse condo. Um. She invites us in,
surrounded by help, yes, her security guards were there, um
and I expected to spend fifteen minutes with her, and
we spent five hours with her. She was ready to talk,
(12:49):
could not stop talking, and then she brought up the revolution,
so I felt like, okay, then it's fair game, right,
I didn't bring it up. She did five hours, five hours,
and at the end of the five hours, you know,
we were filming a movie. Yeah, And I asked, I said,
Mrs Marcus, I want to make a film just about
you through your point of view. So it was very
clear to me that I wanted it from her point
(13:10):
of view, her telling her story before you know, whatever
she goes. That's a great idea me, you want to
and she you know. Then my my idea of her
was very much Sunset Boulevard, you know, Norma Desmond and
her really wonderful you know, condor in the sky, but
(13:32):
really lonely and wanted to tell her story. And that's
why I think she said, yes. She winds up spending
a lot of time with her, Yes, a lot, and
she was so she had more energy than we did,
and we were, of course much younger than her passing
out and she's mid story. She would not sleep, I mean,
(13:53):
and every morning, bright and early. She was still she
was like quafft and put together, Well, we're like that, yes,
and she ever were there any moments where that cracked
some moments she was very very controlled, very controlled. She
was very aware. She was very good at being a
mal DeMarco. Yes, because for twenty years of their life,
(14:16):
you know, there when they were in power, camera crew
followed her, so she was very used to that. There
was one time we were entering a restaurant. She and
that she was entering with her, and she pulled me back.
She goes, you watch when I enter. There's going to
be a lull in the conversation, just a lull, and
then it will go because I entered. I said, okay,
miss Marcus, let's observe that. And we entered, and there
(14:38):
is there was a law. People sort of acknowledged her
and then went on with the life. She goes, it's
always been that way. So you, I mean, obviously she
doesn't have any rights or approvals or authorities over the film.
She relinquished all of that to you. She did. Um
and so uh we premiere at Sundance as well in
(15:01):
A four and you have a Filipino premiere yes, we
Actually it was a very email. There was the very
first documentary that was really theatrically in the Philippines. But um,
right before I release in the Philippines, she sued us.
She sued my distributors. There was a temporary restraining order
and why because she felt like I sullied her good name,
(15:23):
an invasion of privacy. But she's a public figure, so
the invasion of privacy was thrown out. And selling her
good name, well, she said, meld Marca. So that was
really tough. So the movie, I mean, I'm being glid here,
but so the movie didn't kiss her ass enough as
far as she was concerned. As far as no see,
when she first saw it, she was okay with it.
She was like, she had some problems. The harshest thing
that you say in the film, well she talks. It's
(15:46):
all her words. So she talks about the assassination of
Theia Kuino and that they had nothing to do with
it because if they would have done it, they would
have done it in the dark of night, not in
broad daylight. It's like, who does that? So she does?
I mean she really she hangs herself basically because she
that's Mrs Marcos. So when she first saw the film
(16:06):
right before the premier at Sundance, UM had a courtesy
screening for her. She had a few problems with it,
but she knew she didn't have final cut. Fast forward
six months later, we had a theatrical release here in
in the US. So she all the reviewers, of course,
you know Times, La Times, Washington Post reviewed the film,
(16:27):
and they all called it like a pariah, delusional all that.
Suddenly she saw herself through the eyes of the reviewers
and did not like it, so she sued us. In
the Philippines, that was the only time where it was
thrown out, and we opened so big in the Philippiness
half that because what she did was she had like
a news conference every day of the trial, and so
(16:48):
we so much so that people were saying that we
colluded with her to make this like a big, big hit,
but we did not. But no, it was thrown out.
So when you you get sued, the case is dismissed
and when you what's your next film? My next film
is about teachers being recruited in the Philippines to teach
an inner city Baltimore. Because I traveled so much with
(17:08):
the Maldown, my daughter was growing up. I wanted to
stay home, so I really literally a film in my backyard.
And Um, I read the story in the Baltimore Sun
that they were recruiting teachers from the Philippines, which was
so odd to me. There was a shortage of science
teachers because of course all the science teachers were going
to the suburbs, you know, where they're more well resource schools.
(17:31):
So they were recruiting from overseas, and the Philippines was
a hub because we speak English right, and our educational
system is set up like the American educational system because
of the forty years of um Commonwealth room and and
so I said, wow, and inner city in Baltimore, something
(17:51):
will happen in that classroom. And one thing that to another. Again,
I was given access. I asked the public school officials
and they said sure. And I was given like carte
blanche access to the schools. I'm not sure they do
that now, but that was my No one's giving carte
blanche to access to journalists and cameras to anybody anymore,
no more terrified. Um. Yes, So I followed like four
(18:12):
teachers during the freshman year teaching in Baltimore City. It
turned out to be a very hopeful film because it's
two marginalized groups of people found community in the classroom.
You know, it was it was quite something. Where's the
money coming from to make both the Marcos film in
this film public television? Is it you tax dollars? As
(18:37):
well as with with Emelda Yes. So after the school
a story and you're in Baltimore, what comes next? Journey?
I was finishing the learning and so Journey Um Journey.
In oh seven, they were looking for a new lead
(18:57):
singer because so Jerry got cancer. Yeah, uh, he could
no longer do it. And Neil Sean, who is one
of the co founders of the band, wanted you know,
had heard all the cover bands in the US, but
wanted something different. So he trolled YouTube, right, he went,
of course, where do you go? YouTube? And he just
kept looking and looking looking YouTube, and then he found
(19:19):
this guy Arnel Pinetta who was in the Philippines singing
in some at the hard Rock Cafe in Manila, and
he was like just enamored of him and called all
his band members. The next day, called Jonathan Kane and
said I found the guy. And Jonathan was like he's
in Manila. I don't think so. I mean, how can
we even bring him exactly? And he was not known.
(19:42):
Arnell was not unknown singer. He was not famous at all.
But one thing that to another. They got his visa,
he flew out to San Francisco, he auditioned, and he
got the gig, and um so the lead singer for
the biggest crowd he had ever performed for pre was
the journey was like two people. Suddenly was in Vina
(20:03):
del Mar singing to like millions of people. And so
that part, that part is in the film, the first
time he sings to like a really large journey crowd.
More from director Ramona Diaz coming up. If you like
documentary films as much as I do, I hope you
will listen to my conversation with filmmaker Joe Burlinger. I
(20:25):
believe the audience should be treated like a jury. You
give them the information and your way both sides, and
you let them come to their own conclusion. You can
hear more from Burlinger in our archives. And here's the thing,
Dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
(20:50):
Here's the Thing. Ramona diaz is most recent film a
Thousand cuts tells the story of Filipino American journalist Maria Ressa.
It's really a window into the country and the government
led by President du Terte. Ramona Diaz has lived in
the United States for most of her adult life, but
the Philippines remains a central to her work. I think
(21:12):
I make films because it's a yearning for the motherland.
Every film is a yearning. What do you love about
the Philippines. I go back there because I find it
somehow hopeful that something will change, and then it gets
very frustrating. So it's both a love hate relationship and
it's everything I know, right, it's everything deeply I know.
(21:33):
I know that country deeply, um, and I was still
a lot of friends and I always have hope for it.
And that's why I think I keep going back, and
that's why I keep making those stories. And it's also
to decode I think what's happening in the Philippines to
the Western world. I think I'm in a space where
I can do that. I've lived enough in this country
(21:53):
to be able to do that, so I'm both inside outside.
That's why I love going back. Um Trump is someone
who you know both Snaro is someone who he considers
himself like minded with Terte, he considered himself is a
hero to him. Do you realize now, in the time
of Trump, what's happened in your country can happen here
(22:15):
as well. Yes, so quickly too, because if you're not vigilant,
you know, if you don't get fraid of it. Yeah,
it goes away so quickly. It's so amazing how fragile
it is. But the thing about the US is your
institutions are much stronger. The reason in the Philippines thinks
(22:35):
changed so quickly in six months because the institutions are
not that strong. Well the interview, You're very right. The
institutions are stronger in spite of Trump, but they're significantly
weaker than since he took over. He tried to destroy
those institutions. Yes, But but for people who don't understand,
I want them to see the movie. The movie is
called A Thousand Cuts, and it's just depressing as hell.
(22:57):
I mean, it's really depressing. You don't find a hopeful um,
I mean I I find it a little bit hopeful.
I find Duterte I find art because he's unbridled by
many of the stop gaps we have in this country.
When Trump says I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue
(23:17):
and and I could get away with it, Tete is
literally shooting people on Fifth Avenue and getting away. He's
literally doing that, bragging about it, and then very I mean,
he is a monster. He's a very, very very unique
individual in terms of his uh, in terms of the
depths of his hatred. He seems to be soaked and
(23:39):
he really traffics and fear. He really thinks fear. What
do you think he became that way? Did you talk
to anybody who had insights to him earlier in his career?
Has he always been this way? I think it's always,
you know, he used to He's the son of a governor,
so although he's an outsider politician, he still comes from
a very political family. So he was surrounded always by
(24:00):
cops and security guards, and he's I think that's what
he grew up with, you know, just a culture of
killing or people killing or stories of killing. So to him,
I think it just comes naturally to talk about killing.
Everything is killing. It's really quite incredible, But no one
has ever outraged. I think that's my That's what I'm
(24:23):
surprised at because people just laugh and they're not outraged.
I mean, as he saw in the film, he talks
about like female parts in this really crude way, and
people are laughing. The outrage isn't there? Do people mark
in his career? Do you see in a timeline of
his career, uh, when he turned became more plane speaking
(24:46):
in terms of violence and killing people. What was before
he was president? What was he? He was the mayor
of dobo Uh town in the south and crime ridden
that he cleaned up. And that's why he won because
you know, there was a myth that he cleaned up
he delivered and cleaned up Da Vow. How did he
clean up Da Vow? Well, the same way he's cleaning
(25:09):
up Manila basically death spots. Yeah, the same thing. He did,
the same thing. And and because of that, he was
mythical when he said when he when he ran um,
he was mythic and and everyone thought, okay, he can
do that here Manilla to clean up Manila. But the
thing is, Manilla's not Da Vow. And he's still I
(25:29):
think he's still in his mindset is still a mayor,
small town mayor. But now he's president, right, and so
he hasn't made that shift. Even after three years. He's
still micromanaging everything. And the most powerful courts, uh that
could stop him. The most powerful courts in your country
(25:49):
that could have some influence over him, are they elective
or they appointed? We have an appointed Supreme Court, but
they are all disappointed. His appointees. Now, the one was
the loudest voice against him, he he got rid of.
I mean you know, he fired, right, and then the
(26:12):
loudest voice in the Senate, Senator Delima, he imprisoned. Right,
So all branches of government still in prison after three
years now, So all branches of government are really under
his control. And that's why they say he no longer.
He doesn't even have to proclaim martial law, right, there's
no need because they're all under his control. They've given
(26:35):
him all the the tools of martial law without asking
for exactly. You went back there to shoot the film
and you interviewed him. No, but we were given access
to be so we were like closest to him, like
in the pit, which was very rare because he doesn't
like anyone the press near him. But for some reason
(26:57):
he allowed us in the pit, and so we were
really close to when he gave all those speeches you
were afraid about what would happen to you from the
outcome of this film. Marcos gave you all that access
and you made this film, and she was disappointed. I
can't imagine what the possibilities are disappointed. You know what,
Maria was not afraid. Maria Russell was a protagonist. So
(27:19):
I felt like, Wow, then I can't be afraid, right,
I mean, of course fear was there, right, But I'm
a documentary filmmaker. I think I'll regret it forever if
I didn't do it, So sort of the fear outweighed
and kind of you don't imagine um regret. But is
there a resistance there that has expressed any hope of
(27:40):
killing him? Oh, that's a whole other conversation. Assuming political
assassination has happened in this country. I mean, we've had
a political I'm assuming. I wonder if people who really
want to save the Philippines. But they say, he's always
imagining coups and and you know, cop attempts and cool theories. Yeah,
(28:02):
he's always poised for a curl always. That's right. Um,
let's talk about Maria Arressa in the film one thousand cuts.
Who is Maria Arressa. Maria Arressa in the film is
the loudest voice, I guess speaking up against She is
a woman who is fighting for press freedom in the country.
(28:23):
She's been a journalist for thirty years. She was a
face of CNN Asia for a long time. She was
the head of Beurey, chief of CNN Indonesia and then
CNN Philippines, and then went on her own and founded Rappler,
which is a completely like digital news site in the Philippines.
(28:43):
And when Arta became president, they were the first ones
to really question the drug war and the numbers and
they're like the intercept yeah, exactly, very very muscular truth seekers. Yes,
and the data was not happy. And in turn Is
threatens her with eleven cases just to shut her up,
and yet she does not stop. She just speaks up.
(29:07):
So they he went after them and started tried to
shut them down and has filed eleven cases against Maria,
all stemming from tax evasion and anti dummy messing with her. Yes. Basically,
so because they questioned, I mean, they're the loudest voice
against the terriative, because the opposition is really fragmented and
(29:28):
not not very you know, not very effective these days.
And did you get an impression. I'm sure you did,
but I want to ask, did you get an impression
when you were interviewing Maria? Why does she do what
she does? What's her? She always says, She always says
that she has no choice, like the baton was passed
(29:49):
to her and she has to do a chess to
stand up to duty. Yes, right, she can't not do it,
just like I can't not make the film right because
I think the regret. You have to do it. You
have to speak up because as a journalist, then what
do you stand for if you don't speak up during
these times right when you really have to fight. So
(30:10):
she feels like she has no choice, but we all
know we all have choices. We just make the choice
that we feel we can um uh not regrets. What's
interesting to me? What's unusual about Maria Ressa? I never
met Gandhi. I don't think I've ever actually watched actual
footage of the real Gandhi. I might have. I only
know Gandhi as he was portrayed in films and stuff
(30:32):
with Ben Kingsley. Maria Ressa has what I imagine is
a Gandhi esque level of patience and tolerance. You never
see them get to her. She never lets it get
to her. She has the most unimaginable level of self
control I've seen in a human being in my lifetime.
(30:53):
And it's genuine, right because we spent so many hours
where there we saw that you're not some it's genuine
because she feels like it's counterproductive to go down that road.
She has a job to do. She's going to do it.
She's so self actualized in that way. It's it's mesmerizing,
it is. And yeah, they messed with her so much,
and she's like, hey, what do you want me to do?
(31:14):
You want to see these papers? Sure, okay, you could
arrest me. Okay. You never see her act out or
or or, which is a problem sometimes because she I'm like,
oh my god, people, will people really get that she's
in trouble because she's smiling too much? But then I
guess people do. That's her, that's what she is, And
I think that's part of the charm and part of
(31:37):
sort of this irony and the tension between what she
is and what's happening to her. Really works. When you
showed Maria the film. What did she think? She's been
on camera a lot of her life, so wasn't overwhelmed.
She you know, people are I think are always surprised
when they when they see themselves in that situation because
they never they always forget what you capture, right, Because
(31:59):
we were her for months and months and months, she
had no idea how we were going to put it together,
and as a journalist, she tried helping us. You know,
it's like do you want to do this? Do you want?
And we're like no, no, no, no, you do what
you want and then we'll just follow you. This is
what we do. We're not journalists. You do something different,
We do something different. So when she saw it as
a whole, she was like, oh my god, you captured everything.
(32:23):
I'm like, yeah, because we were with you, And I
think seeing it as a whole just brought her back
to those moments that she hasn't really had time to
reflect on, and so I think it was really powerful,
especially when she saw the Sundance with like the whole
round No no for you describe if you will, what's
it been like for you as a woman making films.
(32:43):
What's been the unique challenge for about that um, people
trusting that I can do it, you know, but the
convincing them, right, I mean that's changed in your lifetime. Atana, Yes, well,
especially with a thousand cuts I got. I raised that
my very quickly because it was imperative that I'd be
shooting quickly, and they just said sure here, well no,
(33:07):
I make it. Sounds so easy. But it was like
a whole here, just go and do it, and here's
the whole entire budget whatever we asked for. Which is
the first for me? Yes, it was the first. And
I'm like, I want to make movies with you. I
want to work for you. I'm not sure if that's
going to ever happen again, but I was like, wow,
(33:28):
maybe not because it's just content. Right. People were looking
for a film about tear. They couldn't quite figure out what.
I couldn't quite figure out what I thought. I wanted
to do it on the drug war exclusively until I
met Maria. Then I thought, oh my god, she is
a protagonist. And yeah, I mean sometimes they just fall
(33:48):
on you that, sometimes they enter the room. So as
a woman filmmaker, things have gotten a bit easier if
you're over these just a little bit easier because I
think I've also like staked my claim. There's I haven't
niche right and I'm good films under your belt? What
are you working on now? Can you say? Uh say,
(34:10):
I can't say. It's like a docuseries. But I also
want to do fiction, so I've been trying to make
a fiction. I just have to stop doing documentaries. In
order to write, as you know, you need space and
time and quiet and stillness. So I'm actually trying to
make a feature of Imaalda. I'm making it into liked piece.
(34:33):
There's a lot there, Yeah, and I would be able
to get that job done in two hours. Seriously, I
mean that could be maybe a right, a streaming series,
but don't stop. Is being um made into a fiction narrative? Yeah,
at Universal somewhere. Now we're going to have to have
(34:55):
I should say now, they're going to have to have
a talent search to find exactly the kid that was
the subject of the talent search. Meta casting is ongoing,
I'm told, in case anyone out there thinks this might
be their calling. Ramona Diaz's latest film, A Thousand Cuts,
(35:16):
will be out in theaters and virtual theaters on August seven.
I hope you'll make a point to see it. This
is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing
Host
Alec Baldwin
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