July 3, 2012 • 28 mins
The Internet continues to spread its roots through our world, and soon it will launch cosmic seeds, spreading digital humanity into space. How will it all happen? In this episode, Julie and Robert contemplate the future of an interplanetary Internet.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow
your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas,
and we are reaching to you one way or another
through the Internet. We are crawling out to you through
the quote unquote into webs, through the tubes, slithering our
(00:27):
way towards your ear, yeah, sometimes traveling through the air, uh,
and then into a device, and then through chords through
the air again and then into your skull, which is uh.
I mean that's the way the Internet gets it gets
it hooks into you, you know, it gets it roots
down into you, like like some sort of organism and
an organism that just continues to grow and to grow
and to consume and consume. And where does it all end. Well,
(00:51):
eventually it goes into space, right yeah, I mean, which
just what we're gonna talk about today. We're talking about
this idea of a space that is a networked space
that um, we live in. I mean, it's it's really
crazy when you when you think of the Internet in
terms of like human culture is sort of half biological
(01:14):
and structural and then half information half Internet. Like we
are where does humanity end and Internet began at this
point you know well, and you've said before um um,
and I agree, like we already are cyborgs to some extent.
So this is just sort of a natural, uh, you know,
outburst of what we have here on planet Earth that
(01:37):
we will take into space for many good reasons, I think, um.
But before we talk about that, I did want to
talk about how this this is something that will happen
based on what we've seen here on Earth. And I'm
sure all heard of something called Moore's law, this idea
that computing power doubles every two years. And we've seen
this with you know, technology at least since the seven
(02:00):
in ds UM on a very grand scale. So now
that there's this idea of something called the Internet of things,
and this is an idea of a lot of two
way interaction between people using open source software systems to
share ideas, create ideas out of basically thin air. Um
(02:24):
fab Labs is something that m I T Professor Neil
gershon Field created. It's essentially computer labs all of the
world that use open software so that just about anybody
who's interested can dream up a thing in a computer
model and then make it UM. So it's about this
idea about how we're we've gone beyond not just being
networked and sharing information, but now creating things out of it.
(02:47):
Is very interesting and that's why they call it the
Internet of things. UM. You know, look back to sixth
cents uh, wearable technology. We talked about this before. All surfaces,
all things become networked, can project um. These networks are
that this internet capabilities basically onto anything, right, and everything
(03:07):
is is taking a new data, collecting data and passing
it one potentially giving a stata as well. Your refrigerator
is telling you that your eggs are expired. The chair
that you're sitting in is telling you that, um, you
know your your vital signs are the following or your
moods are the following. Based on this UM everything becomes
alive and networked. And so it's very interesting to think that, um,
(03:35):
you now you can create something just out of your
head and say, okay, well let's let's you know, rig
up this three D printing and I'm going to create
a piece of jewelry that I've just designed or an organ. Right,
So okay, what do you do once you have networked
the earth and every imaginable surface becomes alive with data.
(03:55):
What do you do? I mean you well, I was
gonna say, you do whatever you want, right, I mean,
it's like the utimate freedom. You're not ultimately creative freedom
in a way, though you can see where it could
sort of lead to creative stagmentation as well. I don't know. Well,
I mean there's this idea that we are in a
weird way. If you take a space analogy where there's
you know, microgravity or you know, nearly the void here
(04:18):
that there's no gravity, the same thing is happening on
a technological scale that we're not moored by our computer
equipment anymore. Now it's all sort of becoming UM, this
free floating thing, this cloud computing, UM, this wearable technology
that doesn't tether us to something. So it would make
sense that we would look to the skies and say, okay,
(04:39):
if we are going to um continue manned and robotic missions,
which we are, then we need to figure out a
way to connect ourselves planet to planet UM and uh,
you know wherever else we go out there in the wild. Yeah,
So we end up pursuing this idea of an interplanetary internet,
and this has been on has been on the table
for you years, um, and we've had several projects come along,
(05:03):
um and uh, you know with with varying degrees of
success or cancelation. I mean you've had the canceled Mars
Telecommunications orbiter. There was deep impact networking uh DP in
on the I S, S S. Astronauts are using Facebook already,
And I mean it all comes down to, alright, we're
gonna send probes out. We want these, we need these
(05:24):
probes to communicate with us. They are part of our technology,
they're part of our technological information culture. They are they
are parts of humanity, and so they need to be
connected to us by this greasy tentacle of data. And
uh and for that in place, we need an Internet
connection out there. We need to be able to to
set up the the servers that make this possible. Well,
(05:47):
I'm surely if we wireless, because yeah, that's gonna be
just a mess, isn't it. Um? And yeah, let's extrapolate
this out ten tho years from now. And we you know,
we just talked about this idea of a colonizing space.
So what sort of you know, virtual life can you
create out in space? And what will it look like um,
(06:11):
you know, on each planet or you know in each
area that we decided to focus on, and will it
be worth living if you don't have a good Internet
connection out there? Right? Well? Yeah, I mean that part
of the reason why UM on the International Space Station
they have UM Internet capability is this idea that you
can tap back into life on Earth. Again, if it's
(06:32):
a huge psychological factor to be able to feel connected,
what's interesting those you and and again it you also
get into ideas of if we can't physically go to places,
then we can digitally go to them. We can we
can control and communicate with distant probes. We can conceivably
use virtual reality or UM or or even digitized consciousness
(06:55):
if you really want to look long term to actually
travel there in the form of a machine or or
a mechanical avatar. UM. All these things are kind of
on the table long term. But but you need that
Internet in place to do it. But it's not just
as simple as oh, now we have wireless and expans
tremendous distances. You end up with it with a number
(07:16):
of problems you have to deal with. First of all,
satellite maintenance. If you have various satellites and servers out
there floating around. Um. You know, they might not have
to deal with a ton of of maintenance, but you're
gonna still have your You're still expanding, You're gonna have
to maintain this network. There's also the possibility of hackers
and break in. So I mean hackers. Hacker is gonna hack, right,
(07:39):
I mean, that's just how it goes. It doesn't necessarily
you you need to make sense because you might say, oh,
why would a hacker mess with our ability to communicate
with space? Probs, they'll do it because that's what they do.
Because some of them are fifteen yeah, you know, um,
and then they'll be varying levels of people making political statements, etcetera.
But we've we've seen enough of our history that that
(08:02):
they are just a part of it. They're the germs,
um or that what depends on the point of view.
You could also see them as a at times as
a defensive part of an immune system as well. But
they are inniably a part of our information technological culture.
Well and right now. I mean, security is a huge
issue and a lot of people have bandied about the
(08:23):
idea of quantum cryptology. But um or cryptography. But even
that is not secure, that is breakable. So yeah, you know,
is it possible to even have a super secure system,
I mean really anything attackable At that point, you can't
use the honor system at all, even with even with
space travel. Uh. And then the other big thing is
(08:44):
the is that when we when we're dealing with long
distances like this, we're dealing with cosmic distances, be it
from say Earth to Uranus or Earth to some distance system,
you're dealing with speed of light delays. Okay, so on
Earth we have two community computers connected to the Internet,
maybe there are a few thousand miles away at most,
(09:05):
and uh, the information can travel is really remarkable speeds.
It's it's almost instantaneous. I have a bit of data,
I send it to you and wham it's fair. Right,
but how fast can we actually send data? Right? Light
travels at eighties six thousand miles per second, so it
(09:26):
only takes a you know, a few factions was a
second to send a packet of data from one computer
to another. In contrast, distances between a station on Earth
and one on Mars can be between thirty eight million
miles and two eight million miles, so these distances, you
can take several minutes or hours for a radio signal
to reach a receiving station. Yeah, and can I let
(09:47):
me jump in and just talk about this packet of
data that that gets transmitted because of the World Science
Festival UM. On a panel about the past history of
Internet in the future, they talked about what it takes
to transmit this packet and I find it fascinating if
you break it down and then you start to think
about it in the void. So okay, let's say a
person in England clicks on a World Science Festival link.
(10:10):
This is what happens, and I'll just run you through it,
because like fascinating to me at least. First, a server
asked for a copy of the page that you want
to look at, basically, and then this request is wrapped
in data including the World Science Festival's i P address.
The packet leaves the home computer, travels underground via copper
wire network, routes itself through a regional network, then ends
(10:31):
up at an Internet hub at Telehouse North in London. Okay,
so this hub then looks at it and says, okay,
this packets UM. Well, the World Science Festival server is
in l A. So we're gonna have to get this
over there, so tell a house North then sends the
packet out is light through fiber optic cables in the ocean,
where the packet is then routed to a hub in
(10:53):
New York. The hub sends the packet through a series
of regional networks there until it reaches the server in
l A. Okay, this is crazy, right, because this is
a lot of things. It's not even done yet, it's
halfway there, but there's a ton of things happening here. Uh.
The server then receives and reads the request and gets
ready to send information to England. But web pages are
like they're way too large to be sent as a
(11:14):
single packet of data, So the data spread out into
tiny packets of data, each one wrapped in the information
it needs to then rebuild itself back in England. And
then these packets are then checked and sent by the
hub in l A back to New York and back
through the fiberactive cables to England and back through that
regional network and then back to the man of the
(11:36):
copper wire back to that home in England, where they
all form into one cohesive web page. And this whole
journey takes one second. Okay. So that's that's one of
those things that we just completely take for granted that
that our networks are are so well tied together and
their data is being parsed out in such a way
(11:59):
the to you know, give us the data that we want,
you know, one second later. So when we're talking about
sending information out to sam Mars colony or or a
or a space probe, that's uh, that's that's sailing away
from our system. We're talking about taking information, breaking up
into pieces and then sending a swarm of those pieces
(12:22):
at the destination. Right. So I mean there's there's different
protocols here, and that's what they're trying to figure out.
Vincent Serf, who is called the father of the Internet, um,
also works for Google now their head evangelist or something, yeah,
chief evangelist Officers and something like that. Um, he's actually
(12:42):
creating those protocols and standardizing them so that everybody can
use them, um, every nation that wants to. And it's
it's again, it's it's a little bit different because it's
going to be networked different. The highway is going to
be um, you know, it's not It's like we can
just run FIBERCT cables up, you know, to Mars, right,
(13:02):
and we have to we have to factor in data loss.
We have to factor in that you're not going to
have a consistent stream of information between these two places,
even though there are some really interesting UM plans for
you know, partially using lasers to pitch this information out there,
but but ultimately well, one of the things that really
fascinates me is the idea that assuming that we we
(13:23):
do not find a loophole in um in in the
the speed limit of light in terms of transferring information,
assuming that we're long term, we're beholden to that law
that that no information, no spaceship, nothing can travel faster
than a beam of light across the galaxy. We end
(13:44):
up with a situation where you could say, let's say
you have Earth, all right, and you have Earth's Internet
and it's localized Internet, and then let's say you have
a distant colony at what distance do you end up
having this mitosis of of internet and this mitosis of
culture to where h as interconnected as we feel with
(14:04):
our internet, um you would end up in a situation where, uh,
due to this time delay of sending information. You would
you would have these two colonies in touch with each
other and they would have regular updates about their news,
but you would have uh, growing and ever distancing Internet cultures.
So new memes that are that are particularly only to
(14:27):
this world, up to the date information, up to date
information that's specific only to this world, uh, and they
sort of grow into different informational cultural environments. I mean,
what you're talking about here is the evolution of language. UM.
And I read this UM, and some of them share
that we prepared. We were talking about living in space
that eventually, UM, that even speech patterns would be altered
(14:51):
because sound travels a little bit differently and so UM.
You know, essentially you can still communicate with one another,
but over a hundred thousand years, you know, speech patterns
may change very differently for people who are living off
Earth permanently. UM. So that's really interesting that you bring
up the memes and the metaphors that someone on Earth
(15:12):
may not be able to get. If you know, someone's
living on Mars because you have a completely different environment.
You know, the sun um is beating down on you
in a completely different way. And to try to communicate
that to someone else outside of that experience. That's what
causes you know, different cultures in different languages, right, yeah,
(15:33):
I mean it to go back to you know, in
the past we've discussed say artificial gravity, magical artificial gravity,
and how that's something that sort of shows up in
science fiction and we just you know, we don't think
about it all that much. Spaceship it has gravity like
Earth because people to film that way and we don't
have to think that hard about it. Likewise, you see,
you know classic Star Trek, right, two individuals are talking
(15:55):
to each other is just you know, ones on one
screen the others on the other. And we often we
often don't a factor in these vast distances that we're
communicating across because we're probably already skimming over how we're
traveling those distances, are using um, potentially problematic science to
explain in a galactic travel, So in a galactic communication
that just you know, penciled inn in the margins. Uh
(16:18):
but uh but but to you have to imagine of
a future where these different worlds have have different Internet
that that communicating between uh one colony and another would
it would harken back to the days of sending a
telegram or or snail mail where you would have to
wait for this packet of data to travel at even
(16:39):
at just a phenomenal speeds to travel, to be received
and then to travel back to you. Um, it's it's
fascinating because I mean, the more we see the Internet
in the speed of information unitis here on Earth and
uh and in our more optimistic moments, we imagine it
ultimately bring us all together. Um, the idea that that
(17:03):
just isn't possible given the vast distances in the in
the the speed limit of light when it comes to
envisioning our future out in the stars. Well, and there's
also this question of who who is? Uh? When I
say who, I mean more like national identity. Who is
going to be creating this network and dominating it? Right?
(17:23):
Because well, not presumably, but most likely there's probably gonna
be one player in here that's going to have more
of an influence um, what gets designed and how it
influences our communication. So it's it's interesting, which is unavoidable
you end up with like Catholic Google and then Eastern
(17:44):
Orthodox Google. Right, Well, I don't know, because here's the thing,
Like you know, again, if you're living on Mars, do
you have. You've talked about this before too extensively. What
does religion mean in space at that point? With that
perspective of so, there could be very huge cultural divides. Um.
(18:05):
And that's not necessarily what we were intending to talk
about today, like this offer cultural divide brought on by
the Internet. But we've already um been able to look
at the Internet in retrospect and see how influences culture. Um.
So it's interesting to extrapolate that mount into space. Yeah, totally.
I mean, that's that's the part of this. It really
blows my mind. I mean because the idea of all right, well,
(18:28):
you know, how do we have have space probs communicate
with each other, how an offerable colony communicate with us?
I mean, that's really fascinating. I love that. But when
you start thinking about the cultural ramifications and the personal ramifications, um,
I mean, that's that's where I really connect with the issue.
So all right, hey, we're gonna take a quick break
and we come back. We're gonna wrap things up and
we're gonna run through some liner mail. All right, we
(18:53):
have returned. Um. So yeah, there's just a little bit
of of insight into where we're going with the internet, um,
immediately and then long term as we're trying to imagine
what life beyond our world might consist of, especially when
you when you think of the human race, is not
nearly this organic thing or even this uh, this world
(19:16):
of things, but this internet of things, this internet of existence. Yeah,
all right, well let's uh, let's take a look at
a couple of data packets that came in. Oh yes, yes,
bring us some of these robot the listener mail. All right.
First of all, um, I think was the fiction podcast
where we're talking about the way fiction alters our perception
(19:38):
of reality and ultimately the manifestation of reality around us,
especially in terms of culture, not so much the laws
of physics, but but certainly the way that we behave
as a as a people. Um. I think that was
the one where I brought up that I did not
really understand what she's a brick house. She's mighty mighty
hang out what that means. But because it because time
(20:00):
I hear she's a brick house, I imagine a woman
made out of bricks, and I don't see how that's
particularly attractive because it's a woman made up of bricks.
And we were talking about the tactile parts of our
brains that respond to metaphors, if I remember correctly. Yeah,
And so Jim writes in and he explained it. He says,
she's a brick house because she's stacked, as like bricks
(20:21):
are stacked. Shack it down, shack it down, now, Jim
in New Jersey. So I guess that makes sense. She's
so that the whole thing is that's bricks are stacked.
She is stacked, stacked in the sense that she's put
together and busty, right, That that what I'm getting here. Yeah, busty,
it would say, is what stacks means. Yeah, okay, all right,
(20:44):
Well that I'm still picturing a woman made out of bricks,
but I have a little more background on that now.
Thank you for the funky inside the Jim Um. We
received some more listener mail regarding the episode The Horror,
where we talked about how our brains working when watching
scary movie these want we're addicted to it and uh
and that, you know, really connected with a number of people.
(21:05):
We heard from a listener by the name of Sean
Uh Sean Nicoliffe I can use his last name since
he's writing online here, and Hedio writes and to say
I recently listened to your show about horror, and being
a staff writer for horror Attics dot net, wanted to
send my thoughts. I primarily do reviews of horror films,
and with over sixty films I've reviewed, I've covered decades
(21:27):
and uh and genres of film. I've come to believe
and this is my personal opinion, but the type of
of horror a fan wraps their mind around depends a
lot on their age. Those who are younger under twenty
five seem to go for the quick slasher types of movies,
these being things like Saw, Final Destination and just gore
Field films. In general, this is because they are used
to more instant gratification and their attentions fans are a
(21:48):
bit short. As we get older, our case may change
is we look for people to scare our our minds,
and thus one horror that hits the mind more than
the site. A great example of the current horror trend
is how Josh Weeden's The Cabin in the Woods shows
us how horror films are very formulate, and all you
need to do is get a group of kids, random
(22:09):
monster and kill all but one, and you get yourself
a horror film people want to see, and he goes
in from there to discuss I think some more spoilery stuff.
So I'll leave it at that. But Sean writes under
the name night Missed at the Horror Attics and he
recently did a top ten where you just mentioned his
top ten favorite. Yeah that was interesting all the cap Yeah,
(22:30):
so just real quick. He has an extensive post on this,
you can look up at her attics dot net. But
just to run through his ten favorites. Salem's Lot Saturday nine,
that's a good one. The Shining nineteen eight, that's a
great one. Dog Soldiers two thousand two. Did you see this?
I haven't seen that one. It's pretty fun. It's the
guy who did the Descent, and it's it's kind of
like Aliens with werewolves, and it's one of the few
(22:54):
werewolves move werewolf movies that really works. Um Fido, which
is zombie flick that I have not seen. Um The
Host two thousand six, South Korean horror film. That's a
good one. Takes the the monster movie scenario and turns
us on its head by having us like almost instantly
see the monster and then it just rampages the whole film. Uh,
(23:15):
The Exorcist another classic, let the Right One in two
thousand and eight. This is the the original, not the remake.
And I agree Swedish one so good, it is good.
One Perfect Creature two thousand seven. I don't think I've
seen this one Um Slither two thousand six. I know
it has its bands, it's not not really my thing.
(23:37):
And The Strangers two thousand nine. So so there are
just a few films that one of our listeners recommends
in terms of great Heart and Uh. Finally, we have
one other bit of listener male related to the The
Horror episode, and this is from Marta Marta Wright. Since
this Hi, Julian Robert. I'm writing you because I just
(24:00):
finished listening to the Horror podcast. I've been listening to
you guys for about a year now, and I will
admit that this particular podcast is one of my favorites
so far. I found myself. I found myself grinning and
nodding as I listened. I grew up watching horror movies
and reading horror novels. I still have my original copies
of Stephen King's books, some a bit tattered but obviously
well loved and often re read over the years. While
(24:21):
growing up, my family was highly aware of my quote
unquote fascination with horror movies, to the point that for
my eleventh birthday party, my dad rented some horror movies
whose name I can't recall a twenty years later, I
think you're talking about the movies that um. As my
friends and I watched the movie, we huddled together in
awe and fear. Whenever a scary bit would come on,
(24:41):
we would scream, and mind I would run down and
ask if we wanted him to turn the movie off,
would either holler um a rather empathetic no, or we
would shoot him since we were completely enthralled with what
we were watching. All I really remember of the movie
now is the movie dealt with mummies, some priests from
ancient Egypt who traveled through time and tore people's heart.
Its sound whoa. I don't hm that one's not ringing
(25:04):
a bell, because at first I thought she was going
to be talking about like the old Boars carlaf deal.
I mean, it kind of sounds like a plot on
true but but that doesn't match up. I mean, there
was a great cheesy um mummy related film that was
on MST years back that had like a like an
ancient astronauts staying but the money it was really a
space alien and it's collecting jewels. But there was no
(25:25):
heart ripping in that. So I don't know. That's a
good actually a good call out for listeners. If you
know what she's talking about, let us know and we
will educate the all of us. Um. She continues, as
I said, My family was aware that I was and
still i'm a horror fan. As I hit the age
where I was old enough to babysit my younger sister,
my parents would always tell me not to let my
sister watch horror movies while they were out. Of course,
(25:46):
the minute they left, she would beg to watch whatever
Freddie movie happened to be on table or I happen
to bring home from the video store. Would go back
and forth for a bit until I finally agreed, and
of course she'd get scared, would still be awake when
our parents came home, and I'd get in trouble. Now
that we're adults, my sister refuses to see scary movies,
all of Freddy Krueger or Jason, and she has discovered
that even the really good and scary psychological throwers are
(26:09):
not her cup of tea, But being the awesome sister
that she is, she'll go with me once a year
and see a scary movie and we'll spend the entire
time peeking over her purse. Any who decide I share,
please continue doing the awesome job you guys do. Um
And uh, yeah, so it's just sincerely, Martha. Well that's awesome. Um.
(26:30):
And it's interesting to be just talking about um exposing
her sister to this and her sister ending up being
the polar opposite, uh, you know, not not having a
tolerance or a desire to seek out horror films as
an adult. Yeah, as yeah, as a child, she wanted them.
And I was just thinking that corroborates two different studies
that we've talked about before, the fact that kids cannot
get enough candy, right, um, and you know, having to
(26:53):
do with like um, energy stores as a child and
the quick fix they get from candy, and then they
they can't get enough scary movies. Yeah, you know, which
also corroborates some other studies. So yeah, yeah, and uh,
I can't help but think of of my own family too,
because I would get my sisters to watch these scary movies,
(27:14):
and I my middle sister, Lucy, she was she wasn't
really affected by him. She just kind of, you know,
I wasn't particularly interested. But I feel like my youngest sister, Alison,
she would get rather frightened by these films. But as
an adult she she still seems to have some level
of of nostalgia and appreciation for horror films, like she'll
she'll dress up, she could really get some Halloween and all. So,
(27:37):
I don't know. It's it's interesting though that in um
In MARTA's case, the younger sister ended up just going
almost completely do the other side of the fence on
the horror movie issue. Yeah yeah, And yet maybe it's
her once a year thing with her sister and she's like,
I got too explored again at that moment, she savors
it and who knows, maybe she'll bring her back at
(27:57):
around yeah O taste j inch. Well, Hey, if you
have something you would like to share with us, be
it related to horror movies, be it related to brick houses,
be it related to oh that, the future of the internet,
and uh and what the internet might be like On
an off roll colony let us know. You can find
us on Facebook where we are stuff to Blow Your Mind,
(28:18):
and you can find us on Twitter where our handle
is blow the Mind. And you can always send us
an email to blow the Mind at Discovery dot com.
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Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow
your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas,
and we are reaching to you one way or another
through the Internet. We are crawling out to you through
the quote unquote into webs, through the tubes, slithering our
(00:27):
way towards your ear, yeah, sometimes traveling through the air, uh,
and then into a device, and then through chords through
the air again and then into your skull, which is uh.
I mean that's the way the Internet gets it gets
it hooks into you, you know, it gets it roots
down into you, like like some sort of organism and
an organism that just continues to grow and to grow
and to consume and consume. And where does it all end. Well,
(00:51):
eventually it goes into space, right yeah, I mean, which
just what we're gonna talk about today. We're talking about
this idea of a space that is a networked space
that um, we live in. I mean, it's it's really
crazy when you when you think of the Internet in
terms of like human culture is sort of half biological
(01:14):
and structural and then half information half Internet. Like we
are where does humanity end and Internet began at this
point you know well, and you've said before um um,
and I agree, like we already are cyborgs to some extent.
So this is just sort of a natural, uh, you know,
outburst of what we have here on planet Earth that
(01:37):
we will take into space for many good reasons, I think, um.
But before we talk about that, I did want to
talk about how this this is something that will happen
based on what we've seen here on Earth. And I'm
sure all heard of something called Moore's law, this idea
that computing power doubles every two years. And we've seen
this with you know, technology at least since the seven
(02:00):
in ds UM on a very grand scale. So now
that there's this idea of something called the Internet of things,
and this is an idea of a lot of two
way interaction between people using open source software systems to
share ideas, create ideas out of basically thin air. Um
(02:24):
fab Labs is something that m I T Professor Neil
gershon Field created. It's essentially computer labs all of the
world that use open software so that just about anybody
who's interested can dream up a thing in a computer
model and then make it UM. So it's about this
idea about how we're we've gone beyond not just being
networked and sharing information, but now creating things out of it.
(02:47):
Is very interesting and that's why they call it the
Internet of things. UM. You know, look back to sixth
cents uh, wearable technology. We talked about this before. All surfaces,
all things become networked, can project um. These networks are
that this internet capabilities basically onto anything, right, and everything
(03:07):
is is taking a new data, collecting data and passing
it one potentially giving a stata as well. Your refrigerator
is telling you that your eggs are expired. The chair
that you're sitting in is telling you that, um, you
know your your vital signs are the following or your
moods are the following. Based on this UM everything becomes
alive and networked. And so it's very interesting to think that, um,
(03:35):
you now you can create something just out of your
head and say, okay, well let's let's you know, rig
up this three D printing and I'm going to create
a piece of jewelry that I've just designed or an organ. Right,
So okay, what do you do once you have networked
the earth and every imaginable surface becomes alive with data.
(03:55):
What do you do? I mean you well, I was
gonna say, you do whatever you want, right, I mean,
it's like the utimate freedom. You're not ultimately creative freedom
in a way, though you can see where it could
sort of lead to creative stagmentation as well. I don't know. Well,
I mean there's this idea that we are in a
weird way. If you take a space analogy where there's
you know, microgravity or you know, nearly the void here
(04:18):
that there's no gravity, the same thing is happening on
a technological scale that we're not moored by our computer
equipment anymore. Now it's all sort of becoming UM, this
free floating thing, this cloud computing, UM, this wearable technology
that doesn't tether us to something. So it would make
sense that we would look to the skies and say, okay,
(04:39):
if we are going to um continue manned and robotic missions,
which we are, then we need to figure out a
way to connect ourselves planet to planet UM and uh,
you know wherever else we go out there in the wild. Yeah,
So we end up pursuing this idea of an interplanetary internet,
and this has been on has been on the table
for you years, um, and we've had several projects come along,
(05:03):
um and uh, you know with with varying degrees of
success or cancelation. I mean you've had the canceled Mars
Telecommunications orbiter. There was deep impact networking uh DP in
on the I S, S S. Astronauts are using Facebook already,
And I mean it all comes down to, alright, we're
gonna send probes out. We want these, we need these
(05:24):
probes to communicate with us. They are part of our technology,
they're part of our technological information culture. They are they
are parts of humanity, and so they need to be
connected to us by this greasy tentacle of data. And
uh and for that in place, we need an Internet
connection out there. We need to be able to to
set up the the servers that make this possible. Well,
(05:47):
I'm surely if we wireless, because yeah, that's gonna be
just a mess, isn't it. Um? And yeah, let's extrapolate
this out ten tho years from now. And we you know,
we just talked about this idea of a colonizing space.
So what sort of you know, virtual life can you
create out in space? And what will it look like um,
(06:11):
you know, on each planet or you know in each
area that we decided to focus on, and will it
be worth living if you don't have a good Internet
connection out there? Right? Well? Yeah, I mean that part
of the reason why UM on the International Space Station
they have UM Internet capability is this idea that you
can tap back into life on Earth. Again, if it's
(06:32):
a huge psychological factor to be able to feel connected,
what's interesting those you and and again it you also
get into ideas of if we can't physically go to places,
then we can digitally go to them. We can we
can control and communicate with distant probes. We can conceivably
use virtual reality or UM or or even digitized consciousness
(06:55):
if you really want to look long term to actually
travel there in the form of a machine or or
a mechanical avatar. UM. All these things are kind of
on the table long term. But but you need that
Internet in place to do it. But it's not just
as simple as oh, now we have wireless and expans
tremendous distances. You end up with it with a number
(07:16):
of problems you have to deal with. First of all,
satellite maintenance. If you have various satellites and servers out
there floating around. Um. You know, they might not have
to deal with a ton of of maintenance, but you're
gonna still have your You're still expanding, You're gonna have
to maintain this network. There's also the possibility of hackers
and break in. So I mean hackers. Hacker is gonna hack, right,
(07:39):
I mean, that's just how it goes. It doesn't necessarily
you you need to make sense because you might say, oh,
why would a hacker mess with our ability to communicate
with space? Probs, they'll do it because that's what they do.
Because some of them are fifteen yeah, you know, um,
and then they'll be varying levels of people making political statements, etcetera.
But we've we've seen enough of our history that that
(08:02):
they are just a part of it. They're the germs,
um or that what depends on the point of view.
You could also see them as a at times as
a defensive part of an immune system as well. But
they are inniably a part of our information technological culture.
Well and right now. I mean, security is a huge
issue and a lot of people have bandied about the
(08:23):
idea of quantum cryptology. But um or cryptography. But even
that is not secure, that is breakable. So yeah, you know,
is it possible to even have a super secure system,
I mean really anything attackable At that point, you can't
use the honor system at all, even with even with
space travel. Uh. And then the other big thing is
(08:44):
the is that when we when we're dealing with long
distances like this, we're dealing with cosmic distances, be it
from say Earth to Uranus or Earth to some distance system,
you're dealing with speed of light delays. Okay, so on
Earth we have two community computers connected to the Internet,
maybe there are a few thousand miles away at most,
(09:05):
and uh, the information can travel is really remarkable speeds.
It's it's almost instantaneous. I have a bit of data,
I send it to you and wham it's fair. Right,
but how fast can we actually send data? Right? Light
travels at eighties six thousand miles per second, so it
(09:26):
only takes a you know, a few factions was a
second to send a packet of data from one computer
to another. In contrast, distances between a station on Earth
and one on Mars can be between thirty eight million
miles and two eight million miles, so these distances, you
can take several minutes or hours for a radio signal
to reach a receiving station. Yeah, and can I let
(09:47):
me jump in and just talk about this packet of
data that that gets transmitted because of the World Science
Festival UM. On a panel about the past history of
Internet in the future, they talked about what it takes
to transmit this packet and I find it fascinating if
you break it down and then you start to think
about it in the void. So okay, let's say a
person in England clicks on a World Science Festival link.
(10:10):
This is what happens, and I'll just run you through it,
because like fascinating to me at least. First, a server
asked for a copy of the page that you want
to look at, basically, and then this request is wrapped
in data including the World Science Festival's i P address.
The packet leaves the home computer, travels underground via copper
wire network, routes itself through a regional network, then ends
(10:31):
up at an Internet hub at Telehouse North in London. Okay,
so this hub then looks at it and says, okay,
this packets UM. Well, the World Science Festival server is
in l A. So we're gonna have to get this
over there, so tell a house North then sends the
packet out is light through fiber optic cables in the ocean,
where the packet is then routed to a hub in
(10:53):
New York. The hub sends the packet through a series
of regional networks there until it reaches the server in
l A. Okay, this is crazy, right, because this is
a lot of things. It's not even done yet, it's
halfway there, but there's a ton of things happening here. Uh.
The server then receives and reads the request and gets
ready to send information to England. But web pages are
like they're way too large to be sent as a
(11:14):
single packet of data, So the data spread out into
tiny packets of data, each one wrapped in the information
it needs to then rebuild itself back in England. And
then these packets are then checked and sent by the
hub in l A back to New York and back
through the fiberactive cables to England and back through that
regional network and then back to the man of the
(11:36):
copper wire back to that home in England, where they
all form into one cohesive web page. And this whole
journey takes one second. Okay. So that's that's one of
those things that we just completely take for granted that
that our networks are are so well tied together and
their data is being parsed out in such a way
(11:59):
the to you know, give us the data that we want,
you know, one second later. So when we're talking about
sending information out to sam Mars colony or or a
or a space probe, that's uh, that's that's sailing away
from our system. We're talking about taking information, breaking up
into pieces and then sending a swarm of those pieces
(12:22):
at the destination. Right. So I mean there's there's different
protocols here, and that's what they're trying to figure out.
Vincent Serf, who is called the father of the Internet, um,
also works for Google now their head evangelist or something, yeah,
chief evangelist Officers and something like that. Um, he's actually
(12:42):
creating those protocols and standardizing them so that everybody can
use them, um, every nation that wants to. And it's
it's again, it's it's a little bit different because it's
going to be networked different. The highway is going to
be um, you know, it's not It's like we can
just run FIBERCT cables up, you know, to Mars, right,
(13:02):
and we have to we have to factor in data loss.
We have to factor in that you're not going to
have a consistent stream of information between these two places,
even though there are some really interesting UM plans for
you know, partially using lasers to pitch this information out there,
but but ultimately well, one of the things that really
fascinates me is the idea that assuming that we we
(13:23):
do not find a loophole in um in in the
the speed limit of light in terms of transferring information,
assuming that we're long term, we're beholden to that law
that that no information, no spaceship, nothing can travel faster
than a beam of light across the galaxy. We end
(13:44):
up with a situation where you could say, let's say
you have Earth, all right, and you have Earth's Internet
and it's localized Internet, and then let's say you have
a distant colony at what distance do you end up
having this mitosis of of internet and this mitosis of
culture to where h as interconnected as we feel with
(14:04):
our internet, um you would end up in a situation where, uh,
due to this time delay of sending information. You would
you would have these two colonies in touch with each
other and they would have regular updates about their news,
but you would have uh, growing and ever distancing Internet cultures.
So new memes that are that are particularly only to
(14:27):
this world, up to the date information, up to date
information that's specific only to this world, uh, and they
sort of grow into different informational cultural environments. I mean,
what you're talking about here is the evolution of language. UM.
And I read this UM, and some of them share
that we prepared. We were talking about living in space
that eventually, UM, that even speech patterns would be altered
(14:51):
because sound travels a little bit differently and so UM.
You know, essentially you can still communicate with one another,
but over a hundred thousand years, you know, speech patterns
may change very differently for people who are living off
Earth permanently. UM. So that's really interesting that you bring
up the memes and the metaphors that someone on Earth
(15:12):
may not be able to get. If you know, someone's
living on Mars because you have a completely different environment.
You know, the sun um is beating down on you
in a completely different way. And to try to communicate
that to someone else outside of that experience. That's what
causes you know, different cultures in different languages, right, yeah,
(15:33):
I mean it to go back to you know, in
the past we've discussed say artificial gravity, magical artificial gravity,
and how that's something that sort of shows up in
science fiction and we just you know, we don't think
about it all that much. Spaceship it has gravity like
Earth because people to film that way and we don't
have to think that hard about it. Likewise, you see,
you know classic Star Trek, right, two individuals are talking
(15:55):
to each other is just you know, ones on one
screen the others on the other. And we often we
often don't a factor in these vast distances that we're
communicating across because we're probably already skimming over how we're
traveling those distances, are using um, potentially problematic science to
explain in a galactic travel, So in a galactic communication
that just you know, penciled inn in the margins. Uh
(16:18):
but uh but but to you have to imagine of
a future where these different worlds have have different Internet
that that communicating between uh one colony and another would
it would harken back to the days of sending a
telegram or or snail mail where you would have to
wait for this packet of data to travel at even
(16:39):
at just a phenomenal speeds to travel, to be received
and then to travel back to you. Um, it's it's
fascinating because I mean, the more we see the Internet
in the speed of information unitis here on Earth and
uh and in our more optimistic moments, we imagine it
ultimately bring us all together. Um, the idea that that
(17:03):
just isn't possible given the vast distances in the in
the the speed limit of light when it comes to
envisioning our future out in the stars. Well, and there's
also this question of who who is? Uh? When I
say who, I mean more like national identity. Who is
going to be creating this network and dominating it? Right?
(17:23):
Because well, not presumably, but most likely there's probably gonna
be one player in here that's going to have more
of an influence um, what gets designed and how it
influences our communication. So it's it's interesting, which is unavoidable
you end up with like Catholic Google and then Eastern
(17:44):
Orthodox Google. Right, Well, I don't know, because here's the thing,
Like you know, again, if you're living on Mars, do
you have. You've talked about this before too extensively. What
does religion mean in space at that point? With that
perspective of so, there could be very huge cultural divides. Um.
(18:05):
And that's not necessarily what we were intending to talk
about today, like this offer cultural divide brought on by
the Internet. But we've already um been able to look
at the Internet in retrospect and see how influences culture. Um.
So it's interesting to extrapolate that mount into space. Yeah, totally.
I mean, that's that's the part of this. It really
blows my mind. I mean because the idea of all right, well,
(18:28):
you know, how do we have have space probs communicate
with each other, how an offerable colony communicate with us?
I mean, that's really fascinating. I love that. But when
you start thinking about the cultural ramifications and the personal ramifications, um,
I mean, that's that's where I really connect with the issue.
So all right, hey, we're gonna take a quick break
and we come back. We're gonna wrap things up and
we're gonna run through some liner mail. All right, we
(18:53):
have returned. Um. So yeah, there's just a little bit
of of insight into where we're going with the internet, um,
immediately and then long term as we're trying to imagine
what life beyond our world might consist of, especially when
you when you think of the human race, is not
nearly this organic thing or even this uh, this world
(19:16):
of things, but this internet of things, this internet of existence. Yeah,
all right, well let's uh, let's take a look at
a couple of data packets that came in. Oh yes, yes,
bring us some of these robot the listener mail. All right.
First of all, um, I think was the fiction podcast
where we're talking about the way fiction alters our perception
(19:38):
of reality and ultimately the manifestation of reality around us,
especially in terms of culture, not so much the laws
of physics, but but certainly the way that we behave
as a as a people. Um. I think that was
the one where I brought up that I did not
really understand what she's a brick house. She's mighty mighty
hang out what that means. But because it because time
(20:00):
I hear she's a brick house, I imagine a woman
made out of bricks, and I don't see how that's
particularly attractive because it's a woman made up of bricks.
And we were talking about the tactile parts of our
brains that respond to metaphors, if I remember correctly. Yeah,
And so Jim writes in and he explained it. He says,
she's a brick house because she's stacked, as like bricks
(20:21):
are stacked. Shack it down, shack it down, now, Jim
in New Jersey. So I guess that makes sense. She's
so that the whole thing is that's bricks are stacked.
She is stacked, stacked in the sense that she's put
together and busty, right, That that what I'm getting here. Yeah, busty,
it would say, is what stacks means. Yeah, okay, all right,
(20:44):
Well that I'm still picturing a woman made out of bricks,
but I have a little more background on that now.
Thank you for the funky inside the Jim Um. We
received some more listener mail regarding the episode The Horror,
where we talked about how our brains working when watching
scary movie these want we're addicted to it and uh
and that, you know, really connected with a number of people.
(21:05):
We heard from a listener by the name of Sean
Uh Sean Nicoliffe I can use his last name since
he's writing online here, and Hedio writes and to say
I recently listened to your show about horror, and being
a staff writer for horror Attics dot net, wanted to
send my thoughts. I primarily do reviews of horror films,
and with over sixty films I've reviewed, I've covered decades
(21:27):
and uh and genres of film. I've come to believe
and this is my personal opinion, but the type of
of horror a fan wraps their mind around depends a
lot on their age. Those who are younger under twenty
five seem to go for the quick slasher types of movies,
these being things like Saw, Final Destination and just gore
Field films. In general, this is because they are used
to more instant gratification and their attentions fans are a
(21:48):
bit short. As we get older, our case may change
is we look for people to scare our our minds,
and thus one horror that hits the mind more than
the site. A great example of the current horror trend
is how Josh Weeden's The Cabin in the Woods shows
us how horror films are very formulate, and all you
need to do is get a group of kids, random
(22:09):
monster and kill all but one, and you get yourself
a horror film people want to see, and he goes
in from there to discuss I think some more spoilery stuff.
So I'll leave it at that. But Sean writes under
the name night Missed at the Horror Attics and he
recently did a top ten where you just mentioned his
top ten favorite. Yeah that was interesting all the cap Yeah,
(22:30):
so just real quick. He has an extensive post on this,
you can look up at her attics dot net. But
just to run through his ten favorites. Salem's Lot Saturday nine,
that's a good one. The Shining nineteen eight, that's a
great one. Dog Soldiers two thousand two. Did you see this?
I haven't seen that one. It's pretty fun. It's the
guy who did the Descent, and it's it's kind of
like Aliens with werewolves, and it's one of the few
(22:54):
werewolves move werewolf movies that really works. Um Fido, which
is zombie flick that I have not seen. Um The
Host two thousand six, South Korean horror film. That's a
good one. Takes the the monster movie scenario and turns
us on its head by having us like almost instantly
see the monster and then it just rampages the whole film. Uh,
(23:15):
The Exorcist another classic, let the Right One in two
thousand and eight. This is the the original, not the remake.
And I agree Swedish one so good, it is good.
One Perfect Creature two thousand seven. I don't think I've
seen this one Um Slither two thousand six. I know
it has its bands, it's not not really my thing.
(23:37):
And The Strangers two thousand nine. So so there are
just a few films that one of our listeners recommends
in terms of great Heart and Uh. Finally, we have
one other bit of listener male related to the The
Horror episode, and this is from Marta Marta Wright. Since
this Hi, Julian Robert. I'm writing you because I just
(24:00):
finished listening to the Horror podcast. I've been listening to
you guys for about a year now, and I will
admit that this particular podcast is one of my favorites
so far. I found myself. I found myself grinning and
nodding as I listened. I grew up watching horror movies
and reading horror novels. I still have my original copies
of Stephen King's books, some a bit tattered but obviously
well loved and often re read over the years. While
(24:21):
growing up, my family was highly aware of my quote
unquote fascination with horror movies, to the point that for
my eleventh birthday party, my dad rented some horror movies
whose name I can't recall a twenty years later, I
think you're talking about the movies that um. As my
friends and I watched the movie, we huddled together in
awe and fear. Whenever a scary bit would come on,
(24:41):
we would scream, and mind I would run down and
ask if we wanted him to turn the movie off,
would either holler um a rather empathetic no, or we
would shoot him since we were completely enthralled with what
we were watching. All I really remember of the movie
now is the movie dealt with mummies, some priests from
ancient Egypt who traveled through time and tore people's heart.
Its sound whoa. I don't hm that one's not ringing
(25:04):
a bell, because at first I thought she was going
to be talking about like the old Boars carlaf deal.
I mean, it kind of sounds like a plot on
true but but that doesn't match up. I mean, there
was a great cheesy um mummy related film that was
on MST years back that had like a like an
ancient astronauts staying but the money it was really a
space alien and it's collecting jewels. But there was no
(25:25):
heart ripping in that. So I don't know. That's a
good actually a good call out for listeners. If you
know what she's talking about, let us know and we
will educate the all of us. Um. She continues, as
I said, My family was aware that I was and
still i'm a horror fan. As I hit the age
where I was old enough to babysit my younger sister,
my parents would always tell me not to let my
sister watch horror movies while they were out. Of course,
(25:46):
the minute they left, she would beg to watch whatever
Freddie movie happened to be on table or I happen
to bring home from the video store. Would go back
and forth for a bit until I finally agreed, and
of course she'd get scared, would still be awake when
our parents came home, and I'd get in trouble. Now
that we're adults, my sister refuses to see scary movies,
all of Freddy Krueger or Jason, and she has discovered
that even the really good and scary psychological throwers are
(26:09):
not her cup of tea, But being the awesome sister
that she is, she'll go with me once a year
and see a scary movie and we'll spend the entire
time peeking over her purse. Any who decide I share,
please continue doing the awesome job you guys do. Um
And uh, yeah, so it's just sincerely, Martha. Well that's awesome. Um.
(26:30):
And it's interesting to be just talking about um exposing
her sister to this and her sister ending up being
the polar opposite, uh, you know, not not having a
tolerance or a desire to seek out horror films as
an adult. Yeah, as yeah, as a child, she wanted them.
And I was just thinking that corroborates two different studies
that we've talked about before, the fact that kids cannot
get enough candy, right, um, and you know, having to
(26:53):
do with like um, energy stores as a child and
the quick fix they get from candy, and then they
they can't get enough scary movies. Yeah, you know, which
also corroborates some other studies. So yeah, yeah, and uh,
I can't help but think of of my own family too,
because I would get my sisters to watch these scary movies,
(27:14):
and I my middle sister, Lucy, she was she wasn't
really affected by him. She just kind of, you know,
I wasn't particularly interested. But I feel like my youngest sister, Alison,
she would get rather frightened by these films. But as
an adult she she still seems to have some level
of of nostalgia and appreciation for horror films, like she'll
she'll dress up, she could really get some Halloween and all. So,
(27:37):
I don't know. It's it's interesting though that in um
In MARTA's case, the younger sister ended up just going
almost completely do the other side of the fence on
the horror movie issue. Yeah yeah, And yet maybe it's
her once a year thing with her sister and she's like,
I got too explored again at that moment, she savors
it and who knows, maybe she'll bring her back at
(27:57):
around yeah O taste j inch. Well, Hey, if you
have something you would like to share with us, be
it related to horror movies, be it related to brick houses,
be it related to oh that, the future of the internet,
and uh and what the internet might be like On
an off roll colony let us know. You can find
us on Facebook where we are stuff to Blow Your Mind,
(28:18):
and you can find us on Twitter where our handle
is blow the Mind. And you can always send us
an email to blow the Mind at Discovery dot com.
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