November 1, 2011 • 37 mins
Apocalyptic Love Affair: Human beings are in love with the end. Ruined cities fill our dreams, and fears steers our thoughts through landscapes of bones and zombie hordes. In this episode, Robert and Julie examine the cognitive science behind our apocalyptic love affair. Image: From Bruegel the Elder's "The Triumph of Death." (Imagno/Getty Images)
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,
are you prepared for the end of the world, because, uh,
it's coming apparently according to some people. All Right, the
mind calendar, Yeah, there's the mind calendar thing that says, basically,
(00:26):
this December, the world's gonna end. Then we have, of course,
the rapture predictions that predictions that hold that the world
way will have actually ended by the time this publishes.
So I don't know if this will pub This may
publish in a post rapture world. Well, I guess you
haven't seen my bumper sticker over here that when the
(00:47):
rapture comes, this podcast booth will be evacuated. Okay, Yeah,
we's been hanging here for We won't be here because
because we can't. I can't do it by myself. I'm
sticking around. I've actually ordered a rapture proof suit on
over the internet. Um, it's like line with lead and
bubble wrap. Each bubble and the bubble wrap contains a
(01:10):
tiny occultist icon that helps protect my soul from leaving
my body in the case of the rapture. This way
I can stick around and document the events. Yeah, I
think that's probably gonna work, just in case. And if
it doesn't happen, well then I just spent a lot
of money in a weird suit. Wouldn't be the first
You wouldn't be the first person either, Right. It turns
out that the end days have been a concept that
(01:31):
that predate Christ. Right, because we typically when we can
talk about end days or the rapture apocalypse, we usually
think about it being mired in religion. This concept. Yeah,
I mean it's pretty I mean, the whole Book of
Revelations thing and all, it's crazy imagery. I mean that
that is that's certainly into Western audiences, is the predominant idea.
(01:53):
Like I remember growing up and and I was when
my family lived up in Newfoundland, Canada. We had we
attended this small shirt I remember that the preacher talking
one day about like the end times we're gonna come.
There was going to be this huge war between the
forces of good and evil and we would be called
upon to fight in that war. And I remember being
really thrown back by that. And after such, I was
(02:13):
asking my Mom and Dad. I was like, like, is
that for real? Or we're gonna have to Am I
gonna have to battle in this? Am I going to
suit up? Or what? Yeah? That sounds it sounds kind
of awful. I'd rather not do that. And they were like, yeah,
don't worry about that. Where they like it's a metaphor No,
they were just kind of like, I don't worry about that. Yeah,
I'm not gonna happen. Okay, So all right, obviously today
we're talking about apocalypse, the many apocalypses that have come
(02:37):
and gone and never actually occurred, right, and we're actually
going to talk to right right well who knows, who knows?
All the matrix were just like hooked up to some
sort of alien apocalypse right now. And we'll get into
some of these ideas too, because because in many cases
the apocalypse uh prediction doesn't come to pass, but that
(02:58):
doesn't mean people give up on that prediction. So we'll
get into exactly how that works on a cognitive level. Yep,
yep um. But we should also talk about the apocalypse.
It's not just in terms of okay, but this is
the religious thing that we think about, but also um
asteroids nuclear winters, um, you know, natural phenomena that happens,
(03:20):
and people will sit there and say, okay, this must
be a sign, right and this has been happening forever
since there have been humans right right there. There are
a number of different apocalyptic scenarios. You of course, have
the spiritual ones, like you said, they're cosmological one. Some
of which have a little more of validity than others,
like the idea of a meteor comment hitting the Earth
and causing extreme damage wiping out civilizations. Obviously that has
(03:43):
occurred before in the past, not within human history, but
I mean nothing on the scale enough to wipe us
out as a species, but that is it's a possibility.
Unlike some of the other weirder things that are ideas
that have populated on the Internet, such as like planet
X colliding with the with Earth planetary alignment scenarios that
end up, you know, wiping everything off the face of
(04:05):
the planet. Things of that nature are a lot more
far fetched, but are at least based in uh, in
actual science at some level. You exaggerated uh. And then
and then there of course economic predictions. You don't have
to go far to tune into some economic doom and
gloom these days. And granted, economists predicting the future of
global economies is a far different kettle of fish than
(04:27):
um a guy in the street corner telling you about
when the demonic or UFO invasion is happening. But still
it's it's very much a prediction of things going really
really bad in a very catastrophic manner with dire consequences
that people will buy into with their fear. Well, and
I think that we can't help but look over our
shoulder and see what might be coming at us or
(04:49):
try to predict that. And I was just thinking about
the panel that I heard on Cryptography and the World Sciences. Well,
thank you. Yeah, and uh, the guy who was retired,
I don't know if it was c I A, but
he was sitting there saying, this is actually a really
big issue, the security issue online, because if certain people
(05:09):
wanted to, they could bring down the U. S. Economy
and they could basically like close down the grid, closed
down the economy, and we would have something like thirty
days where we could exist in a sort of peaceful
manner before all hell broke loose and civilization just sort
of collapse on itself. So you hear this, you know,
And it's not just this guy, it's just even someone
(05:31):
like say Stephen Hawking, right, who couldn't help but say,
you know, hey, I'm going to sound the alarm here.
Quit talking to the aliens. Um. Yeah, if there anything
like us, they're jerks, you know. They they're really into hierarchies,
um I and b um. You know, if they do exist,
(05:52):
they're probably much more complex than we are in advance.
So what will that lead to our doom? Yeah, Jeff
Bell Gold, him and Will Smith are not going to
be able to fly up there and just stick a
disk in the mothership to shut it all down. It's
gonna be a far different situation. Yeah. Technology has has
played a partner a number of predictions. There's, of course,
the the y U K's situation that did not come
(06:14):
to pass, but that had people heading for the hills
and stocking up on water and beans. If you have
a chance, check out the House Stuffworks dot COM's article
UM two thousand and twelve Apocalypse survival guide. That's one
I wrote that kind of humorously takes you through ten
of the sort of out there in many cases scenarios
for how the world is going to end, uh this December. Yeah,
(06:36):
and and some of those are like there's yeah, there's
one based in computer programs trying to predict the course
of events, and and people pointing that these computers have
dictated exactly when the world is gonna end, and it
lines up in two twelve. You know, so we just
got a clue and you know, got an inkling of
what they were up to. Yeah. So you you know, technological, economic, spiritual, political,
(06:58):
I mean, there's like anything that any kind of movement
or or system that is big enough to fail with
dire consequences. People are uh and and have been predicting
a failure for ages. Yeah. And before we talk about
some good examples of apocalypse is um or you know
in the past that people have thought would come to pass,
let's talk a little bit why we're hardwired to like
(07:19):
a really good apocalypse story. Why does it appeal to us? Yeah,
because obviously we keep doing these these mental circles for
a reason, and it's because our brains are are central
to it. Yeah. And there's this in this story of
the apocalypse or is a promise of renewal, right, and
the yeah, I mean it's sort of like the phoenix
from the flame. Um. It's an impetus to right our wrongs. Right.
(07:42):
And there's a moral code in some of these which
says that you know, if I live my life right,
then in the rapture, Um, you know, I will be
spared from the scorched earth. And speaking of scorched earth,
I mean, you know, if you're talking in secular terms,
you could even say that, uh, in something like the military,
which has scorched earth policies sometimes and applied to warfare.
(08:03):
If you take a country down, a community down to
the studs, you're scorching the earth. There's this idea that
you can then fill that void with a renewal for
these people. Yeah, right, besides dominating them to a certain degree. Um.
So I mean you can you see it in all
different areas. Um. But again, it is a sort of
(08:23):
a cathartic experience, and I think that that's why people
are gravitate to it so much, or some people do. Yeah.
So many of these systems involve a like a system
that is flawed to its core ultimately fails, and when
it fails, that gives us the room to create a
new system. Be that you know, typically we're talking about
a civilization. It's like humans for ages realizing that the
(08:45):
that the systems they create or the systems they inhabit
are not quite perfect or not completely to their liking.
And surely if this system were to run its course
and have enough rope to hang itself, we'd be able
to build some new system that obviously wouldn't be horrible.
Well to your point, um Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts
actually talks about an Assyrian clay tablet that dates back
(09:09):
to b C. And it was unearthed and it bears
the words our Earth is degenerate. In these latter days,
there are signs that the world is speedily coming to
an end. Bribery and corruption are common. Okay, So BC
people are like, you know what, this is, this planet,
this thing that's going on here on Earth, it's just
(09:29):
not working out. Surely it will end. Surely the Second
Coming is at hand, right yeah. Yeah. And it's just
one example of you know, perception of moral decay in society.
But you know, there's there are a ton of them.
Um Romans saw the a D. Seventy nine eruption of
Mount Vesuvius as a sign that society was about to
(09:49):
get its kick in the pants, um when POMPEII went
up in smoke, or excuse me, when Pompey was actually
buried in smoke. As the eight said, again, it's no
country for old men, right. The We're always looking at
the world around them and seeing forces that are endangered
in them rising up, and the end systems that are
not working all around them. And patterns always patterns, right yeah,
because we are brains, as we've discussed before, are all
(10:12):
about finding patterns. We have to navigate this world of
fixed and movable objects, of symbols, of information, of of
social systems, and we have to navigate all of this.
So we need a brain. We've we've evolved to have
a brain that is ideal for surviving this environment. Well.
And also think about Haley's comment, right, there's another example
(10:33):
something happening um getting a lot of press and people
not quite understanding what the impact, what they think the
impact will be Haley's common only in this nineteen ten
people believe that the commons tail contained a gas that
would impregnate the atmosphere and possibly snuff out all life
on planet Earth, and they began to sell like all
sorts of goofy little relics to help people survived this event.
(10:58):
You know. So again, yes, people, you can't help it,
right if it depends on how much you know about
an event. And then later we have Heaven's Gate. He
believed that the comment is going to is actually signals
that the UFO is coming to take us away, or
at least take this small selection of believers away, right,
which had a very very sad ending, right, I mean
this this was this is the case where they actually
(11:20):
all poisoned themselves, Is that right? Yeah, they all committed
suicide and uh. And the leader he actually, um, he
also had himself surgically castrated. I don't know why that
was a prerequisite for the alien ship, but you know,
dude had some issues. Seriously, It's not funny, but just
(11:41):
another good example is the Seekers, right, going back to aliens. Yeah,
the Seekers are quite an interesting story. This is a
small Chicago area cult and whose members thought that they
were communicating with aliens. Uh. It's specifically communicating with Sanan Sananda,
who they believed was the like a cosmic incarnation of Jesus. Uh.
(12:01):
And the leader and all this was this, uh, this
lady Dorothy Martin, and so she she had. She was
basically a housewife, like she was not. You know, there's
nothing really spectacular about her life up to this point.
But then she picked up a little, uh, theosophy, she
picked up a little scientology. Yeah, she was all about
the dynatics, right, yeah. Yeah. And then by the way,
(12:23):
theosophy is kind of like a found in eighteen seventy five.
It's kind of a combination of some elements of Buddhism
and Brahminism and uh, some some reincarnation throwing them with
some spiritual evolution and uh and there's some spinoffs, right,
like the High Faith, although I don't think that they
subscribed to I'm well, I'm not sure. I know. Rain
Wilson is uh this one. Oh I didn't hear that. Yeah,
(12:45):
he has a really cool site called Soul Pancake, I believe,
and it's all about like reaching young audiences, getting them
talking and discussing like spiritual ideas. But anyway, so Dorothy
Martin fifty four years old, um oak Park, and she
suddenly she starts communicating with these with these aliens, and
she learns from them. She says that December, the day
(13:08):
of the Seas are gonna rise. The continent's gonna split,
and flying saucers are gonna swoop down to the rescue
of her and the believers. Uh and and they it
was even to the point where everybody gathered for this.
People were removing zippers from their garnaments and by the way, right, yeah,
removing the wire from their bras because supposedly that would
(13:28):
interfere with the spaceship or or perhaps it would just
slow slow your your journey down as you tried to
make it through security to board the space ships. She
divined this, by the way, from automatic writing, which I
thought was funny because that's sort of old fashioned to me.
Like that, to me, that's like the Silences and Turn
of the Century, sort of kind of like table raising gig.
(13:50):
So obviously the date came and went, and everyone was
still here. The world was still continuing, uh, all around
the albums, and they kind of face to I mean,
they did face a crisis of faith here. What do
you do when you've come to believe that the world
is gonna end, when you've invested, when you've done this stuff,
like uh said, well, I'm not I'm never gonna have
(14:11):
to pay this credit card off, or well I'm not
gonna need a car again. I'm gonna sell that and
support this, uh, this group or cult that I'm that
I've become a part of it, become Yeah, you're committed
to this idea. Um, if not completely, then substantially. And
then when this core part of your belief system fails
on you, what do you do? Well, We're gonna take
(14:32):
a quick break and we'll find out what you do.
This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors
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curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at
curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions.
(14:55):
All right, we're back, just like we said we would.
That was not a false prediction, came to pass as
the prophecy foretold. We have returned, and we are going
to discuss the question of what happens when you predict something,
ideally the end of the world or some sort of
major spiritual reckoning. What happens when you predicted and it
doesn't come to pass. Well, when you say, oh my goodness,
(15:17):
this was all you know, Bally who this was a mistake. UM,
I need to reassess my life and perhaps get my
job back. When wouldn't that be sort of logical? Well,
that would that would be the logical. But like we said,
you've already invested a lot in this idea. Yeah, I
quit my job, I've sold my car. Yeah, and uh.
As this was happening though with the seekers back in
(15:38):
the fifties, they were out there preaching the message. They
really believed this. They were not trying to hoard the
afterlife and uh and redemption and about board the UFO.
They were not holding those seats for themselves. Apparently there
was plenty of seating available and so they were spreading
the word and uh. One individual that heard this and
was particularly fascinated was a Stanford University psychologist, Leon Festing,
(16:00):
and so he and some of his colleagues decided to
infiltrate the group, which I love. This is great, right,
because how else are you going to be able to
observe people who, you know, what passes over their face
went December twenty first comes and goes yeah, I mean
on another level, it's kind of jerky, you know, because
it's like you're kind of you your way into their
(16:21):
midst and saying that you believe what they believe. I mean,
it's like if you you know, started going to uh
sports games with somebody and then you're really getting into them,
into the into the game, and you're like, oh yeah,
go falcons or whatever. And then they were then found
when they were like, actually, I don't really like the falcons,
but I've been studying you this wholtime. Yes, you're right,
you're right, but but but from from an experiment, from
(16:42):
from research perspective, from a research perspective, this was this
was an irresistible situation, a real deal. Yeah. Gave them
the chance to to infiltrate this group, study from the
inside how they were thinking about the end of the world,
and then study how they behaved once their prediction did
not come to pass. Yeah, And so Fassenger found something
out that was pretty fascinating that when this did come
(17:04):
to pass. Well, first of all, Dorothy Martin started writing
again really quickly, right we assume, with her automatic writing,
and she received a message that said, hey, wow, the
aliens have spared Earth because we are so committed that
they decided, you know, never mind, we're not going to
destroy you, which sort of restored people's faith in in
(17:26):
in what was going on right I I think the
message was going to be the Aliens saying, hey, we
hit traffic, so we're gonna be a little late. Um,
someone has metal on, take it off. It's totally slowing
down the our arrival here. But that that's what was
so amazing, that that people would double down on their
beliefs in the face of of data that was basically
(17:48):
telling them that their belief system was wrong. Yeah, because again,
you've already invested so much in are you're just gonna
give up? It's I The podcast that we're recording right
after this one is going to deal with worts fandom
and as I can't help but wonder if it's a
similar case, like what do you do when you believe
in a sports team absolutely and you support them and
then they fail on you, and they fail on you
(18:09):
again and again and again. Well, and I know we're
not doing that podcast right now, but I will tell
you that a lot of times people will blame it
on bad luck or on the other team, or instead
of actually looking at the raw data and saying, my
team is not so good so you can't help, but
but seek out some sort of explanation that squares with
your idea, your original idea, and that's what Fastinger based
(18:33):
cognitive dissonance on correct correct. What's it reminds one of
the situation with Harold camping Um, the the current big
rapture scenarios that of course had a lot of play
in the summer. This was May one, right, yes, and
and of course it didn't it didn't happen. But he
immediately said, well, let me revise. I've done the math again,
and actually, yes, this this date was correct, but it
(18:55):
was a spiritual judgment and not like the actual judgment.
So it was like, are the file was settled and
stamped by heavenly authorities and then then the actual apocalypse
just explore exploratory committee. Right, they had. But basically he's
in one swoop. He is, he's quantifying what has already happened,
(19:16):
and and he's not backing down from his previous claim,
but he's also excusing away the fact that the world
didn't end a lot, and he's bumping that date up
to when it will supposedly actually end, which of course
he had done in the past. I mean, unfortunately for him,
they didn't get as many contributions after that point. They've
they've received less money from from their supporters, but they
(19:37):
still have supporters, and of course this guy still supports
the idea completely. But yeah, even in the face of
the original prediction not coming true, they've they've simply doubled down,
revised it a little. And apparently this is common to
when it when a when a when an end of
the world event does not come to pass, it's spiritualized.
So it's it's suddenly, oh, it didn't take place in
(19:57):
the real world, but it took place in a spiritual means,
or there's some sort of other message. Uh. So you
come up with ways to reinterpret what has happened so
that the movement can continue, and in some cases you
end up splitting off and becoming you know, the followers
end up having to really shift gears and becoming a
slightly different faith. Right, which again I always think that
it's interesting this concept that we are creating our reality
(20:20):
every single second, right and then stall just our individual perception. So, yes,
there are some things that are are constants, like like, uh,
you know, the stars in the moon and the sky,
but how you interpret what happens underneath the sky is
completely up to that individual um and there was another
thing that I read to about cognitive dissonance, and they
(20:40):
were actually saying that, you know, apocalyptic thinking. It's not
unlike people who are skeptical of global warming. Are people
who are very ardent about the existence of global warming,
and that the problem here is not that people don't
have the right data. It's not it's that it's being
framed from a how use perspective and not a data appreciate.
(21:03):
You end up with emotions intertwined in there, and reasoning
ends up intertwined with that emotion. Even something like global
warming comes down to. Uh, you end up with the
emotional political ideas fueled fueling into that personal uh feelings
of guilt or responsibility become a part of that as well. UH.
And just to recap cognitive dissonance, which we we've covered
in the past, UM, this is a situation in the
(21:26):
mind that arises when there's conflict between two opposing thoughts,
are between expectations and reality. As we've covered before. The
a really good example of two opposing thoughts would be
if you if you completely held the belief that, say,
homosexual emplices pulses were sinful, but then you knew but
(21:46):
then you felt homosexual impulse. So like the two ideas
are are really conflict one another. So how do you
end up with this cognitive dissonance where the thing you
believe is not the thing that you believe? And then uh,
when it comes to expect ptations in reality that is
you know, that is like the situation we're talking about here.
It's kind of like if the if an individual sets
out to become a rock star and doesn't become a
(22:07):
rock star, Um, their expectations and the reality are are
are clashing. So the end with this cognitive dissonance and uh,
and and this is the situation with someone who thinks
the world is gonna end and then it doesn't. And
the classic example is uh that we keep coming back
around too. Is primordial ancestor in the bush, you know,
walking around in the jungle, their predators or enemies around.
(22:29):
And then there's a sound in the bushes. Now, this
could be one of two things. Basically you can break
it down to either that that the sound in the
bushes that is a threat, a real threat, or it's nothing. Okay,
So how do we behave when we when we we
hear that? I mean, well, how do we behave when
something jumps out at us, or when suddenly there's a
car on the highway where we didn't see one earlier. Um,
(22:51):
when there's a knock at the door when we're not
expecting someone. But you don't pause to sit there and deliberate,
right right, say okay, what what rationally is going on
in here? Because you can basically make two types of
errors incognition. Here, you can make what is called a
type one error or a false positive, and this is
when you believe something is real when it is not. So.
This is, for instance, a friend jumps out at a
(23:14):
mon at you a monster constume and you realize, oh,
it's just a monster costume. It's not a monster. But
you react initially like it's a monster and maybe punch
them or apply a few karate chops now. And then
there's a type two error in cognition, and this is
a false negative, and this is believing something is not
real when it is. So. This is when a monster
jumps out at you and you think it's your friends
(23:35):
in a monster mask and you're like, hey, buddy, needed
to go for a high five, and then you get eaten.
So that's a scenario that not so good, right, So,
if you can see the type to error in cognition,
the false negative, that is the scenario most likely to
result in death if you're dealing with some sort of surprise,
that could be fatal. Okay, so it makes sense that
you pull out more stock in the type one like
(23:56):
people don't probably be more willing to make that error
than the type the type one error. It's like, worst
case scenario Type one error is you just feel kind
of stupid because you were scared by something that wasn't real.
Type two worst case scenario, you were eaten by a monster.
So which do you think, Uh, nature selects four. Which
do you think has been the has proven the evolutionary advantage?
(24:16):
The type one that is the default error with the
human mind. So, so take that situation with your friend
and the monster mask, then extrapolate that to civilization wide
events and too large human created systems and perceived systems.
So the idea that a meteorite could hit the earth
and destroy everybody, Um, we're we're incredibly likely to make
(24:40):
a type one error and so and and prepare for
the worst. There and then that breaks down in the
spiritual and mythic realm as well, we often end up
making this type one error where we're more likely to
believe the imagined thing because if if it doesn't come
to pass, well we just feel a little foolish. Then
we laugh, right, And as we've discussed in the past,
that's where we get the whole of benign violation theory
(25:00):
of laughter and humor, the idea that when we realized
it's something that we thought was it was a threat
isn't real. After we have made that type one error,
we just go ah ha, And that's our our way
of of letting everyone around us know that that was
just a dude in the monster mask and not an
actual monster, right, right, you get the release, you know, regardless.
So speaking of benign violation theory and uh, and you
(25:24):
having brought up the article that you wrote about how
to deal with an apocalypse or several different types of apocalypse, Um,
let's talk about zombie apocalypse. Oh yeah, yeah, So this
is an interesting one that instantly comes to mind because
it's I mean, it's everywhere. The zombie thing will not
die no matter how many Yeah, it just keeps crawling
(25:45):
and lurching and sometimes you're running ahead. So we have
things like The Walking Dead on TV is like it
premed see season two premiered, it was like huge, everybody
was watching it. I mean you just look around, Your
zombies are everywhere, and why Well, it's a it's another
apocalyptics and area, not one that most, if anyone, really
believes in, unless zombies are somehow tied into your particular
(26:07):
religious view of the rapture. And you know, maybe it is.
But for the most part, this is like a purely
fictional idea that we're just obsessed with what we we like.
The part of our brains that love apocalypse and and
are more likely to buy into apocalypse. We we can't
help but think about this scenario, and I think it's
really interesting to sort of break down Hawaii. That is.
Chuck Closterman had a bit uh belief. This came out
(26:29):
last year, um around the same time that the first
season of The Walking Dead came out, and uh, and
he had some interesting thoughts in his article my Zombie
myself by modern life feels rather undead and he said, Uh,
every zombie war is a war of attrition. It's always
the numbers game, and it's more repetitive than complex. In
other words, zombie killing is philosophically similar to reading and
(26:50):
deleting four work emails on a Monday morning, or filling
out paperwork that only generates more paperwork, or following Twitter
goss about of obligation, or performing tedious to ask in
which the only true risk is being consumed by the avalanche.
The principal downside to any zombie attack is that the
zombies will never stop coming. The principal downsound downside of
life if you will never be finished with whatever it
(27:12):
is you do. So that was his kind of take
on on why the modern audience is so into the
zombie idea my own thinking about it, because I find
zombies interesting if even if the idea is a little
played out at this point, but I can't help but
think a large part of it is because the zombie
is the in the same way that apocalypse scenarios appeal
to us on kind of a a liberation frontiersman, uh standpoint,
(27:36):
and you know that's like, oh, the world comes to
an end, and now I'm just it's just me and
my survival skills against nature. And even though that's a
battle that most of us are not prepared for at all,
um or we're certainly not as prepared for as we
might think we would be. Um, it's it's there's something
romantic about it. You know. It's kind of like that
whole what if I were to leave everything I own
and just drive off into the sunset. Well, and it's
(27:57):
a safe place to play out your fears, right because
about penang and violation theory. You have zombies, you probably
can outrun them, right and uh even though uh probably
for every five you kill, there's another ten that pop
up like a hide your head, much like Chuck Clusterman
was saying with emails, Um, you know, it's it's something that,
um that you can still battle against. Um, it's not
(28:20):
the real apocalypse right in the zombies themselves. I mean,
so many of the things that we fear in modern
life are rather ethically complex, like the idea, like even
if it's something as simple as crime or terrorism, I
mean not these are not simple. But these it's an example,
like crime or terrorism, for example, those are complex, um situations,
and you can't just but but but with zombies, it's
(28:43):
rather simple. The zombie is an undead monster, and if
it comes at you, you can shoot it in the
head or you can hit it with a baseball bat
and then wham, one part of that problem is solved.
Life is rarely as simple as that. So there's I
think there's a fantasy in your life becoming that kind
of conflict where there's a clear cut solution. And uh, well,
(29:03):
I mean and for some people, I mean there's something
attractive about the idea that that violence is that kind
of a solution. Well, it's ethical killing, right, because they're
already dead, and I mean you're you're just trying to survive, right, Yeah,
you can sort of like walk the masculine um war
dog inside you without actually having to um feast yourself
on scenes of human violence and deprivation. Yeah, or or
(29:27):
or as a feminist, you can take up arms and
battle against zombies and go on to sustain life of
the human rights, and you do have to worry with
these ethical concerns of murder and uh in self defense.
So I don't know, I'm sure you're aware of this,
but in Atlanta and in other cities, there is going
to be a zombie five k I believe in February
(29:48):
I had forgotten about that. Actually yeah, yeah, um, so
you're gonna shamble in it. That was my question because
I was like, is this twenty eight days later zombies
where they're you know, they're able to learn and they
get really fast. Because I really don't want someone to
tackle me and start drooling brains or fake brains all
over me. Yeah, I know that's weird for that to
(30:09):
be bothersome, but um but I don't mind. If they're
just kind of shuffling after me, that could be fun. Well,
they do a walk here every year, or they have
for the last several years where um, like a bunch
of people will gather in zombie makeup, generally on like
a Friday afternoon. So it's I mean, I've never is
this different from the Little Five Points Parade? Yes, this
is different. A Little five Points Parade is a it's
(30:31):
a cool, little local Halloween parade that we have that's uh,
that I hope to go to again this year. It's
kind of disorganized, but not like zombie disorganized. Uh, but
it's pretty wonderful. Actually, it's pretty wonderful. That's what makes
it so so wonderful. It's kind of disorganized. It's it's
not like this huge, hugely thought out parade that it's
just and it's not like just you know, spontaneous either
it's there's some degree of planning, but it's pretty loose
(30:52):
and fun. It's like legions of zombies and pirates. And yeah,
so the zombie Walk is something slightly different where people
dress of the zombies and sort of shamble across town
on an afternoon. But okay, well, so Holly Fry of
pop stuff is actually training for the well she's a runner,
but she's training for this five k. So so we'll
get an update, I'm sure pretty soon on the zombie
five k that explains all those questionable lunches she's been having.
(31:15):
You know, yeah she was. She's preparing very gray of
human hair stuck in them. Yeah yeah. Uh and you
thought it was some sort of like vestigial cafe of delights. Yeah,
that vestigial cafe just stuff down the street. Yeah yeah,
it's the newest thing with the foodies and hipsters. Yeah yeah,
you can get some sort of like umor worth a
tooth in it. Sorry, but hey, I mean it's it's
(31:37):
Halloween ish, so we can talk about this kind of stuff.
Halloween people are still writing high it. Um. I want
to leave this conversation with a quote. If I May.
This is from new Scientists and talking about the apocalypse
and why it's important to people. It says the apocalyptic
visions also help us make sense of an often seemingly
senseless world. In the face of confusion and annihilation, we
(31:58):
need restitution and reassure. We want to feel that no
matter how chaotic, oppressive, or evil the world is, all
will be made right in the end. The apocalypse, as
histories end, is made acceptable with the belief that there
will be a new beginning. The psychology behind it awesome
and a nice pithy paragraph. Well, speaking of new beginnings,
I'm going to reach inside the listener mail and I'm
(32:19):
gonna retrieve a particular email from listener Mike that deals
with red bull, or more specifically the idea of Southeast
Asian red bull, because I mentioned in a previous podcast
about how when I was in Thailand I had a
Thai red bull and how it was like a totally
different experience then American red bull. It was a sweeter um,
(32:39):
it was insanely like powerful. It's like you felt your
eyes do that incredible hulk thing when you drank it.
And this sounds like this sort of hashy strink. Yeah
it was, but I but I asked listeners like, hey,
has anyone else had this experience? Or did I buy
a painted red bull and just had a weird experience
with it? Well, Mike right, so and he says, hey, guys,
(33:01):
I'm fifteen and a big fan. I heard Robert talking
about the tie red bull and had a very lost
esque flashback. This summer, my mom and dad and I
took a two week trip to Cambodia, very cool to
be with some missionary friends and help out with their hospital.
Cooler red bull was everywhere in Cambodia. We were pretty
close to the border of Thailand. I bought some of
(33:21):
it in a little eight ounce can and it was
definitely how Robert described it. It was much sweeter and
it was uncarbonated. Fantastic stuff. I'll include a picture of
it so you guys can see if any of the
canc look a right like was the red bull in
the in the medicine bottle carbonating? Um? Okay, So I
looked at the picture and it looks it looks different
(33:42):
from what I had. But it's been several years though,
who knows. The branding may have changed, and also Cambodian
red bull might be slightly different from Thai that bull.
I don't know, but I have a suspicion that the chemicals,
uh were very similar. It's possible. I have heard that
coke in Mexico is far different from Cokie night Stage
was actually because that thing, right, Yeah, It's like it's
made with grill sugar versus a high procost corn syrup.
(34:04):
And I don't remember it was carbonated. I just remember
that I felt carbonated drank um. And we have a
couple of other emails here. I'm gonna go through real quick.
Paul writes in from Australia, says, good day. It's Paul
from Australia. Where about the only thing that won't kill
you is our weird, tiny, stingless bees. Anyway, I've been
listening with Rapped Enjoyment since episode one and have wanted
(34:25):
to comment on almost every topic cover. I spent many
hours each day driving and I usually listened in large batches, however,
and have just never gotten around to it. So I
put down my panda sandwich with its side order of
popcorn Cicada's popped a few gummy bears in my mouth instead.
Wiped my mind clear, chased out the devil and his
fiendish dub step, and wrote this of what I can
only assume as my own free will. I had an
(34:47):
interesting moment whilst listening to the podcast on memory when
Julie was reading out the list. When she came to
the test words and read the trick word sweet. I
quickly raced through my memory palace, noticed that sweet wasn't there,
and immediately drew an upper case Q on my forehead
tail on the left. Of course, oop's gotta go, my larval.
Humans are whining about saber tooths on the subway again,
(35:09):
and you know how annoying that can be? All right
again soon if I get enough of the dopamine hit
from this later. Paul ps Lady Gaga, I love that. Wow. Yeah,
he he was able to wrap too many references in.
I think he discovered like about a hundred podcasts in there,
or at least met I don't know, maybe uh six
year or so. Nicely done, Paul, that's going up in
my cubicle. Yes, I like the way this man's mind works.
(35:32):
Here's another one from Timothy. Timothy writes in Robert and Julie,
thank you for this podcast. It's funny that you mentioned
how social stimulation helps feel creativity during this episode and
he's talking about spolinted isolation, because that is exactly what
the simulated social interaction of listening to your podcast did
for me. Please allow me to explain. I've had a
book floating around in my head for a decade or
(35:53):
so and have never really mustered the creative energy to write,
as opposed to the dozens of other products I found
myself involved in. Amazingly, You're description of social isolation and
its effects were identical to the major themes of the
story and completely validated my creative instincts. That encouraging knowledge
gave me a vivid image of the characters I haven't
captured for a long time. Thanks again, I now know
(36:13):
how to find my inspiration in the real life drama
of psychology. Uh. And that was again from Tim. So
that's awesome. I love it when we hear here accounts
of how our listeners have taken something or that we've
covered and have managed to turn that into some new
creative energy or or some new inspiration uh in their
creative life. So yeah, I love that too. I always
(36:34):
think that there are so many different novels that could
come from some of the research that we do. Yes, yes,
I think every basically there's the best selling novel in
every episode. And I just hope that the people who
write those best selling novels and option them option the screenplay.
Uh do they just remember you and I and uh
and just you know, flow us as few bucks when
the millions, you know, just treat us to a dinner.
(36:56):
I don't know. I was gonna say a nice postcard. Yeah,
or look at one of those cheese askets. Well I
would You don't need cheese, but you can send me
the cheese basket when the screenplay is an option for sure. Hey, So,
if you have anything you would like to share with us,
the first stop would be Twitter and Facebook. We're on
both of those that blow the mind. We regularly update
those feeds with cool links. That's about what we're doing,
(37:18):
and we'd love to hear from you, and you can
always get in touch with us by sending an email
to blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.
Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff
from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow,
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,
are you prepared for the end of the world, because, uh,
it's coming apparently according to some people. All Right, the
mind calendar, Yeah, there's the mind calendar thing that says, basically,
(00:26):
this December, the world's gonna end. Then we have, of course,
the rapture predictions that predictions that hold that the world
way will have actually ended by the time this publishes.
So I don't know if this will pub This may
publish in a post rapture world. Well, I guess you
haven't seen my bumper sticker over here that when the
(00:47):
rapture comes, this podcast booth will be evacuated. Okay, Yeah,
we's been hanging here for We won't be here because
because we can't. I can't do it by myself. I'm
sticking around. I've actually ordered a rapture proof suit on
over the internet. Um, it's like line with lead and
bubble wrap. Each bubble and the bubble wrap contains a
(01:10):
tiny occultist icon that helps protect my soul from leaving
my body in the case of the rapture. This way
I can stick around and document the events. Yeah, I
think that's probably gonna work, just in case. And if
it doesn't happen, well then I just spent a lot
of money in a weird suit. Wouldn't be the first
You wouldn't be the first person either, Right. It turns
out that the end days have been a concept that
(01:31):
that predate Christ. Right, because we typically when we can
talk about end days or the rapture apocalypse, we usually
think about it being mired in religion. This concept. Yeah,
I mean it's pretty I mean, the whole Book of
Revelations thing and all, it's crazy imagery. I mean that
that is that's certainly into Western audiences, is the predominant idea.
(01:53):
Like I remember growing up and and I was when
my family lived up in Newfoundland, Canada. We had we
attended this small shirt I remember that the preacher talking
one day about like the end times we're gonna come.
There was going to be this huge war between the
forces of good and evil and we would be called
upon to fight in that war. And I remember being
really thrown back by that. And after such, I was
(02:13):
asking my Mom and Dad. I was like, like, is
that for real? Or we're gonna have to Am I
gonna have to battle in this? Am I going to
suit up? Or what? Yeah? That sounds it sounds kind
of awful. I'd rather not do that. And they were like, yeah,
don't worry about that. Where they like it's a metaphor No,
they were just kind of like, I don't worry about that. Yeah,
I'm not gonna happen. Okay, So all right, obviously today
we're talking about apocalypse, the many apocalypses that have come
(02:37):
and gone and never actually occurred, right, and we're actually
going to talk to right right well who knows, who knows?
All the matrix were just like hooked up to some
sort of alien apocalypse right now. And we'll get into
some of these ideas too, because because in many cases
the apocalypse uh prediction doesn't come to pass, but that
(02:58):
doesn't mean people give up on that prediction. So we'll
get into exactly how that works on a cognitive level. Yep,
yep um. But we should also talk about the apocalypse.
It's not just in terms of okay, but this is
the religious thing that we think about, but also um
asteroids nuclear winters, um, you know, natural phenomena that happens,
(03:20):
and people will sit there and say, okay, this must
be a sign, right and this has been happening forever
since there have been humans right right there. There are
a number of different apocalyptic scenarios. You of course, have
the spiritual ones, like you said, they're cosmological one. Some
of which have a little more of validity than others,
like the idea of a meteor comment hitting the Earth
and causing extreme damage wiping out civilizations. Obviously that has
(03:43):
occurred before in the past, not within human history, but
I mean nothing on the scale enough to wipe us
out as a species, but that is it's a possibility.
Unlike some of the other weirder things that are ideas
that have populated on the Internet, such as like planet
X colliding with the with Earth planetary alignment scenarios that
end up, you know, wiping everything off the face of
(04:05):
the planet. Things of that nature are a lot more
far fetched, but are at least based in uh, in
actual science at some level. You exaggerated uh. And then
and then there of course economic predictions. You don't have
to go far to tune into some economic doom and
gloom these days. And granted, economists predicting the future of
global economies is a far different kettle of fish than
(04:27):
um a guy in the street corner telling you about
when the demonic or UFO invasion is happening. But still
it's it's very much a prediction of things going really
really bad in a very catastrophic manner with dire consequences
that people will buy into with their fear. Well, and
I think that we can't help but look over our
shoulder and see what might be coming at us or
(04:49):
try to predict that. And I was just thinking about
the panel that I heard on Cryptography and the World Sciences. Well,
thank you. Yeah, and uh, the guy who was retired,
I don't know if it was c I A, but
he was sitting there saying, this is actually a really
big issue, the security issue online, because if certain people
(05:09):
wanted to, they could bring down the U. S. Economy
and they could basically like close down the grid, closed
down the economy, and we would have something like thirty
days where we could exist in a sort of peaceful
manner before all hell broke loose and civilization just sort
of collapse on itself. So you hear this, you know,
And it's not just this guy, it's just even someone
(05:31):
like say Stephen Hawking, right, who couldn't help but say,
you know, hey, I'm going to sound the alarm here.
Quit talking to the aliens. Um. Yeah, if there anything
like us, they're jerks, you know. They they're really into hierarchies,
um I and b um. You know, if they do exist,
(05:52):
they're probably much more complex than we are in advance.
So what will that lead to our doom? Yeah, Jeff
Bell Gold, him and Will Smith are not going to
be able to fly up there and just stick a
disk in the mothership to shut it all down. It's
gonna be a far different situation. Yeah. Technology has has
played a partner a number of predictions. There's, of course,
the the y U K's situation that did not come
(06:14):
to pass, but that had people heading for the hills
and stocking up on water and beans. If you have
a chance, check out the House Stuffworks dot COM's article
UM two thousand and twelve Apocalypse survival guide. That's one
I wrote that kind of humorously takes you through ten
of the sort of out there in many cases scenarios
for how the world is going to end, uh this December. Yeah,
(06:36):
and and some of those are like there's yeah, there's
one based in computer programs trying to predict the course
of events, and and people pointing that these computers have
dictated exactly when the world is gonna end, and it
lines up in two twelve. You know, so we just
got a clue and you know, got an inkling of
what they were up to. Yeah. So you you know, technological, economic, spiritual, political,
(06:58):
I mean, there's like anything that any kind of movement
or or system that is big enough to fail with
dire consequences. People are uh and and have been predicting
a failure for ages. Yeah. And before we talk about
some good examples of apocalypse is um or you know
in the past that people have thought would come to pass,
let's talk a little bit why we're hardwired to like
(07:19):
a really good apocalypse story. Why does it appeal to us? Yeah,
because obviously we keep doing these these mental circles for
a reason, and it's because our brains are are central
to it. Yeah. And there's this in this story of
the apocalypse or is a promise of renewal, right, and
the yeah, I mean it's sort of like the phoenix
from the flame. Um. It's an impetus to right our wrongs. Right.
(07:42):
And there's a moral code in some of these which
says that you know, if I live my life right,
then in the rapture, Um, you know, I will be
spared from the scorched earth. And speaking of scorched earth,
I mean, you know, if you're talking in secular terms,
you could even say that, uh, in something like the military,
which has scorched earth policies sometimes and applied to warfare.
(08:03):
If you take a country down, a community down to
the studs, you're scorching the earth. There's this idea that
you can then fill that void with a renewal for
these people. Yeah, right, besides dominating them to a certain degree. Um.
So I mean you can you see it in all
different areas. Um. But again, it is a sort of
(08:23):
a cathartic experience, and I think that that's why people
are gravitate to it so much, or some people do. Yeah.
So many of these systems involve a like a system
that is flawed to its core ultimately fails, and when
it fails, that gives us the room to create a
new system. Be that you know, typically we're talking about
a civilization. It's like humans for ages realizing that the
(08:45):
that the systems they create or the systems they inhabit
are not quite perfect or not completely to their liking.
And surely if this system were to run its course
and have enough rope to hang itself, we'd be able
to build some new system that obviously wouldn't be horrible.
Well to your point, um Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts
actually talks about an Assyrian clay tablet that dates back
(09:09):
to b C. And it was unearthed and it bears
the words our Earth is degenerate. In these latter days,
there are signs that the world is speedily coming to
an end. Bribery and corruption are common. Okay, So BC
people are like, you know what, this is, this planet,
this thing that's going on here on Earth, it's just
(09:29):
not working out. Surely it will end. Surely the Second
Coming is at hand, right yeah. Yeah. And it's just
one example of you know, perception of moral decay in society.
But you know, there's there are a ton of them.
Um Romans saw the a D. Seventy nine eruption of
Mount Vesuvius as a sign that society was about to
(09:49):
get its kick in the pants, um when POMPEII went
up in smoke, or excuse me, when Pompey was actually
buried in smoke. As the eight said, again, it's no
country for old men, right. The We're always looking at
the world around them and seeing forces that are endangered
in them rising up, and the end systems that are
not working all around them. And patterns always patterns, right yeah,
because we are brains, as we've discussed before, are all
(10:12):
about finding patterns. We have to navigate this world of
fixed and movable objects, of symbols, of information, of of
social systems, and we have to navigate all of this.
So we need a brain. We've we've evolved to have
a brain that is ideal for surviving this environment. Well.
And also think about Haley's comment, right, there's another example
(10:33):
something happening um getting a lot of press and people
not quite understanding what the impact, what they think the
impact will be Haley's common only in this nineteen ten
people believe that the commons tail contained a gas that
would impregnate the atmosphere and possibly snuff out all life
on planet Earth, and they began to sell like all
sorts of goofy little relics to help people survived this event.
(10:58):
You know. So again, yes, people, you can't help it,
right if it depends on how much you know about
an event. And then later we have Heaven's Gate. He
believed that the comment is going to is actually signals
that the UFO is coming to take us away, or
at least take this small selection of believers away, right,
which had a very very sad ending, right, I mean
this this was this is the case where they actually
(11:20):
all poisoned themselves, Is that right? Yeah, they all committed
suicide and uh. And the leader he actually, um, he
also had himself surgically castrated. I don't know why that
was a prerequisite for the alien ship, but you know,
dude had some issues. Seriously, It's not funny, but just
(11:41):
another good example is the Seekers, right, going back to aliens. Yeah,
the Seekers are quite an interesting story. This is a
small Chicago area cult and whose members thought that they
were communicating with aliens. Uh. It's specifically communicating with Sanan Sananda,
who they believed was the like a cosmic incarnation of Jesus. Uh.
(12:01):
And the leader and all this was this, uh, this
lady Dorothy Martin, and so she she had. She was
basically a housewife, like she was not. You know, there's
nothing really spectacular about her life up to this point.
But then she picked up a little, uh, theosophy, she
picked up a little scientology. Yeah, she was all about
the dynatics, right, yeah. Yeah. And then by the way,
(12:23):
theosophy is kind of like a found in eighteen seventy five.
It's kind of a combination of some elements of Buddhism
and Brahminism and uh, some some reincarnation throwing them with
some spiritual evolution and uh and there's some spinoffs, right,
like the High Faith, although I don't think that they
subscribed to I'm well, I'm not sure. I know. Rain
Wilson is uh this one. Oh I didn't hear that. Yeah,
(12:45):
he has a really cool site called Soul Pancake, I believe,
and it's all about like reaching young audiences, getting them
talking and discussing like spiritual ideas. But anyway, so Dorothy
Martin fifty four years old, um oak Park, and she
suddenly she starts communicating with these with these aliens, and
she learns from them. She says that December, the day
(13:08):
of the Seas are gonna rise. The continent's gonna split,
and flying saucers are gonna swoop down to the rescue
of her and the believers. Uh and and they it
was even to the point where everybody gathered for this.
People were removing zippers from their garnaments and by the way, right, yeah,
removing the wire from their bras because supposedly that would
(13:28):
interfere with the spaceship or or perhaps it would just
slow slow your your journey down as you tried to
make it through security to board the space ships. She
divined this, by the way, from automatic writing, which I
thought was funny because that's sort of old fashioned to me.
Like that, to me, that's like the Silences and Turn
of the Century, sort of kind of like table raising gig.
(13:50):
So obviously the date came and went, and everyone was
still here. The world was still continuing, uh, all around
the albums, and they kind of face to I mean,
they did face a crisis of faith here. What do
you do when you've come to believe that the world
is gonna end, when you've invested, when you've done this stuff,
like uh said, well, I'm not I'm never gonna have
(14:11):
to pay this credit card off, or well I'm not
gonna need a car again. I'm gonna sell that and
support this, uh, this group or cult that I'm that
I've become a part of it, become Yeah, you're committed
to this idea. Um, if not completely, then substantially. And
then when this core part of your belief system fails
on you, what do you do? Well, We're gonna take
(14:32):
a quick break and we'll find out what you do.
This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors
of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe
curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at
curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions.
(14:55):
All right, we're back, just like we said we would.
That was not a false prediction, came to pass as
the prophecy foretold. We have returned, and we are going
to discuss the question of what happens when you predict something,
ideally the end of the world or some sort of
major spiritual reckoning. What happens when you predicted and it
doesn't come to pass. Well, when you say, oh my goodness,
(15:17):
this was all you know, Bally who this was a mistake. UM,
I need to reassess my life and perhaps get my
job back. When wouldn't that be sort of logical? Well,
that would that would be the logical. But like we said,
you've already invested a lot in this idea. Yeah, I
quit my job, I've sold my car. Yeah, and uh.
As this was happening though with the seekers back in
(15:38):
the fifties, they were out there preaching the message. They
really believed this. They were not trying to hoard the
afterlife and uh and redemption and about board the UFO.
They were not holding those seats for themselves. Apparently there
was plenty of seating available and so they were spreading
the word and uh. One individual that heard this and
was particularly fascinated was a Stanford University psychologist, Leon Festing,
(16:00):
and so he and some of his colleagues decided to
infiltrate the group, which I love. This is great, right,
because how else are you going to be able to
observe people who, you know, what passes over their face
went December twenty first comes and goes yeah, I mean
on another level, it's kind of jerky, you know, because
it's like you're kind of you your way into their
(16:21):
midst and saying that you believe what they believe. I mean,
it's like if you you know, started going to uh
sports games with somebody and then you're really getting into them,
into the into the game, and you're like, oh yeah,
go falcons or whatever. And then they were then found
when they were like, actually, I don't really like the falcons,
but I've been studying you this wholtime. Yes, you're right,
you're right, but but but from from an experiment, from
(16:42):
from research perspective, from a research perspective, this was this
was an irresistible situation, a real deal. Yeah. Gave them
the chance to to infiltrate this group, study from the
inside how they were thinking about the end of the world,
and then study how they behaved once their prediction did
not come to pass. Yeah, And so Fassenger found something
out that was pretty fascinating that when this did come
(17:04):
to pass. Well, first of all, Dorothy Martin started writing
again really quickly, right we assume, with her automatic writing,
and she received a message that said, hey, wow, the
aliens have spared Earth because we are so committed that
they decided, you know, never mind, we're not going to
destroy you, which sort of restored people's faith in in
(17:26):
in what was going on right I I think the
message was going to be the Aliens saying, hey, we
hit traffic, so we're gonna be a little late. Um,
someone has metal on, take it off. It's totally slowing
down the our arrival here. But that that's what was
so amazing, that that people would double down on their
beliefs in the face of of data that was basically
(17:48):
telling them that their belief system was wrong. Yeah, because again,
you've already invested so much in are you're just gonna
give up? It's I The podcast that we're recording right
after this one is going to deal with worts fandom
and as I can't help but wonder if it's a
similar case, like what do you do when you believe
in a sports team absolutely and you support them and
then they fail on you, and they fail on you
(18:09):
again and again and again. Well, and I know we're
not doing that podcast right now, but I will tell
you that a lot of times people will blame it
on bad luck or on the other team, or instead
of actually looking at the raw data and saying, my
team is not so good so you can't help, but
but seek out some sort of explanation that squares with
your idea, your original idea, and that's what Fastinger based
(18:33):
cognitive dissonance on correct correct. What's it reminds one of
the situation with Harold camping Um, the the current big
rapture scenarios that of course had a lot of play
in the summer. This was May one, right, yes, and
and of course it didn't it didn't happen. But he
immediately said, well, let me revise. I've done the math again,
and actually, yes, this this date was correct, but it
(18:55):
was a spiritual judgment and not like the actual judgment.
So it was like, are the file was settled and
stamped by heavenly authorities and then then the actual apocalypse
just explore exploratory committee. Right, they had. But basically he's
in one swoop. He is, he's quantifying what has already happened,
(19:16):
and and he's not backing down from his previous claim,
but he's also excusing away the fact that the world
didn't end a lot, and he's bumping that date up
to when it will supposedly actually end, which of course
he had done in the past. I mean, unfortunately for him,
they didn't get as many contributions after that point. They've
they've received less money from from their supporters, but they
(19:37):
still have supporters, and of course this guy still supports
the idea completely. But yeah, even in the face of
the original prediction not coming true, they've they've simply doubled down,
revised it a little. And apparently this is common to
when it when a when a when an end of
the world event does not come to pass, it's spiritualized.
So it's it's suddenly, oh, it didn't take place in
(19:57):
the real world, but it took place in a spiritual means,
or there's some sort of other message. Uh. So you
come up with ways to reinterpret what has happened so
that the movement can continue, and in some cases you
end up splitting off and becoming you know, the followers
end up having to really shift gears and becoming a
slightly different faith. Right, which again I always think that
it's interesting this concept that we are creating our reality
(20:20):
every single second, right and then stall just our individual perception. So, yes,
there are some things that are are constants, like like, uh,
you know, the stars in the moon and the sky,
but how you interpret what happens underneath the sky is
completely up to that individual um and there was another
thing that I read to about cognitive dissonance, and they
(20:40):
were actually saying that, you know, apocalyptic thinking. It's not
unlike people who are skeptical of global warming. Are people
who are very ardent about the existence of global warming,
and that the problem here is not that people don't
have the right data. It's not it's that it's being
framed from a how use perspective and not a data appreciate.
(21:03):
You end up with emotions intertwined in there, and reasoning
ends up intertwined with that emotion. Even something like global
warming comes down to. Uh, you end up with the
emotional political ideas fueled fueling into that personal uh feelings
of guilt or responsibility become a part of that as well. UH.
And just to recap cognitive dissonance, which we we've covered
in the past, UM, this is a situation in the
(21:26):
mind that arises when there's conflict between two opposing thoughts,
are between expectations and reality. As we've covered before. The
a really good example of two opposing thoughts would be
if you if you completely held the belief that, say,
homosexual emplices pulses were sinful, but then you knew but
(21:46):
then you felt homosexual impulse. So like the two ideas
are are really conflict one another. So how do you
end up with this cognitive dissonance where the thing you
believe is not the thing that you believe? And then uh,
when it comes to expect ptations in reality that is
you know, that is like the situation we're talking about here.
It's kind of like if the if an individual sets
out to become a rock star and doesn't become a
(22:07):
rock star, Um, their expectations and the reality are are
are clashing. So the end with this cognitive dissonance and uh,
and and this is the situation with someone who thinks
the world is gonna end and then it doesn't. And
the classic example is uh that we keep coming back
around too. Is primordial ancestor in the bush, you know,
walking around in the jungle, their predators or enemies around.
(22:29):
And then there's a sound in the bushes. Now, this
could be one of two things. Basically you can break
it down to either that that the sound in the
bushes that is a threat, a real threat, or it's nothing. Okay,
So how do we behave when we when we we
hear that? I mean, well, how do we behave when
something jumps out at us, or when suddenly there's a
car on the highway where we didn't see one earlier. Um,
(22:51):
when there's a knock at the door when we're not
expecting someone. But you don't pause to sit there and deliberate,
right right, say okay, what what rationally is going on
in here? Because you can basically make two types of
errors incognition. Here, you can make what is called a
type one error or a false positive, and this is
when you believe something is real when it is not. So.
This is, for instance, a friend jumps out at a
(23:14):
mon at you a monster constume and you realize, oh,
it's just a monster costume. It's not a monster. But
you react initially like it's a monster and maybe punch
them or apply a few karate chops now. And then
there's a type two error in cognition, and this is
a false negative, and this is believing something is not
real when it is. So. This is when a monster
jumps out at you and you think it's your friends
(23:35):
in a monster mask and you're like, hey, buddy, needed
to go for a high five, and then you get eaten.
So that's a scenario that not so good, right, So,
if you can see the type to error in cognition,
the false negative, that is the scenario most likely to
result in death if you're dealing with some sort of surprise,
that could be fatal. Okay, so it makes sense that
you pull out more stock in the type one like
(23:56):
people don't probably be more willing to make that error
than the type the type one error. It's like, worst
case scenario Type one error is you just feel kind
of stupid because you were scared by something that wasn't real.
Type two worst case scenario, you were eaten by a monster.
So which do you think, Uh, nature selects four. Which
do you think has been the has proven the evolutionary advantage?
(24:16):
The type one that is the default error with the
human mind. So, so take that situation with your friend
and the monster mask, then extrapolate that to civilization wide
events and too large human created systems and perceived systems.
So the idea that a meteorite could hit the earth
and destroy everybody, Um, we're we're incredibly likely to make
(24:40):
a type one error and so and and prepare for
the worst. There and then that breaks down in the
spiritual and mythic realm as well, we often end up
making this type one error where we're more likely to
believe the imagined thing because if if it doesn't come
to pass, well we just feel a little foolish. Then
we laugh, right, And as we've discussed in the past,
that's where we get the whole of benign violation theory
(25:00):
of laughter and humor, the idea that when we realized
it's something that we thought was it was a threat
isn't real. After we have made that type one error,
we just go ah ha, And that's our our way
of of letting everyone around us know that that was
just a dude in the monster mask and not an
actual monster, right, right, you get the release, you know, regardless.
So speaking of benign violation theory and uh, and you
(25:24):
having brought up the article that you wrote about how
to deal with an apocalypse or several different types of apocalypse, Um,
let's talk about zombie apocalypse. Oh yeah, yeah, So this
is an interesting one that instantly comes to mind because
it's I mean, it's everywhere. The zombie thing will not
die no matter how many Yeah, it just keeps crawling
(25:45):
and lurching and sometimes you're running ahead. So we have
things like The Walking Dead on TV is like it
premed see season two premiered, it was like huge, everybody
was watching it. I mean you just look around, Your
zombies are everywhere, and why Well, it's a it's another
apocalyptics and area, not one that most, if anyone, really
believes in, unless zombies are somehow tied into your particular
(26:07):
religious view of the rapture. And you know, maybe it is.
But for the most part, this is like a purely
fictional idea that we're just obsessed with what we we like.
The part of our brains that love apocalypse and and
are more likely to buy into apocalypse. We we can't
help but think about this scenario, and I think it's
really interesting to sort of break down Hawaii. That is.
Chuck Closterman had a bit uh belief. This came out
(26:29):
last year, um around the same time that the first
season of The Walking Dead came out, and uh, and
he had some interesting thoughts in his article my Zombie
myself by modern life feels rather undead and he said, Uh,
every zombie war is a war of attrition. It's always
the numbers game, and it's more repetitive than complex. In
other words, zombie killing is philosophically similar to reading and
(26:50):
deleting four work emails on a Monday morning, or filling
out paperwork that only generates more paperwork, or following Twitter
goss about of obligation, or performing tedious to ask in
which the only true risk is being consumed by the avalanche.
The principal downside to any zombie attack is that the
zombies will never stop coming. The principal downsound downside of
life if you will never be finished with whatever it
(27:12):
is you do. So that was his kind of take
on on why the modern audience is so into the
zombie idea my own thinking about it, because I find
zombies interesting if even if the idea is a little
played out at this point, but I can't help but
think a large part of it is because the zombie
is the in the same way that apocalypse scenarios appeal
to us on kind of a a liberation frontiersman, uh standpoint,
(27:36):
and you know that's like, oh, the world comes to
an end, and now I'm just it's just me and
my survival skills against nature. And even though that's a
battle that most of us are not prepared for at all,
um or we're certainly not as prepared for as we
might think we would be. Um, it's it's there's something
romantic about it. You know. It's kind of like that
whole what if I were to leave everything I own
and just drive off into the sunset. Well, and it's
(27:57):
a safe place to play out your fears, right because
about penang and violation theory. You have zombies, you probably
can outrun them, right and uh even though uh probably
for every five you kill, there's another ten that pop
up like a hide your head, much like Chuck Clusterman
was saying with emails, Um, you know, it's it's something that,
um that you can still battle against. Um, it's not
(28:20):
the real apocalypse right in the zombies themselves. I mean,
so many of the things that we fear in modern
life are rather ethically complex, like the idea, like even
if it's something as simple as crime or terrorism, I
mean not these are not simple. But these it's an example,
like crime or terrorism, for example, those are complex, um situations,
and you can't just but but but with zombies, it's
(28:43):
rather simple. The zombie is an undead monster, and if
it comes at you, you can shoot it in the
head or you can hit it with a baseball bat
and then wham, one part of that problem is solved.
Life is rarely as simple as that. So there's I
think there's a fantasy in your life becoming that kind
of conflict where there's a clear cut solution. And uh, well,
(29:03):
I mean and for some people, I mean there's something
attractive about the idea that that violence is that kind
of a solution. Well, it's ethical killing, right, because they're
already dead, and I mean you're you're just trying to survive, right, Yeah,
you can sort of like walk the masculine um war
dog inside you without actually having to um feast yourself
on scenes of human violence and deprivation. Yeah, or or
(29:27):
or as a feminist, you can take up arms and
battle against zombies and go on to sustain life of
the human rights, and you do have to worry with
these ethical concerns of murder and uh in self defense.
So I don't know, I'm sure you're aware of this,
but in Atlanta and in other cities, there is going
to be a zombie five k I believe in February
(29:48):
I had forgotten about that. Actually yeah, yeah, um, so
you're gonna shamble in it. That was my question because
I was like, is this twenty eight days later zombies
where they're you know, they're able to learn and they
get really fast. Because I really don't want someone to
tackle me and start drooling brains or fake brains all
over me. Yeah, I know that's weird for that to
(30:09):
be bothersome, but um but I don't mind. If they're
just kind of shuffling after me, that could be fun. Well,
they do a walk here every year, or they have
for the last several years where um, like a bunch
of people will gather in zombie makeup, generally on like
a Friday afternoon. So it's I mean, I've never is
this different from the Little Five Points Parade? Yes, this
is different. A Little five Points Parade is a it's
(30:31):
a cool, little local Halloween parade that we have that's uh,
that I hope to go to again this year. It's
kind of disorganized, but not like zombie disorganized. Uh, but
it's pretty wonderful. Actually, it's pretty wonderful. That's what makes
it so so wonderful. It's kind of disorganized. It's it's
not like this huge, hugely thought out parade that it's
just and it's not like just you know, spontaneous either
it's there's some degree of planning, but it's pretty loose
(30:52):
and fun. It's like legions of zombies and pirates. And yeah,
so the zombie Walk is something slightly different where people
dress of the zombies and sort of shamble across town
on an afternoon. But okay, well, so Holly Fry of
pop stuff is actually training for the well she's a runner,
but she's training for this five k. So so we'll
get an update, I'm sure pretty soon on the zombie
five k that explains all those questionable lunches she's been having.
(31:15):
You know, yeah she was. She's preparing very gray of
human hair stuck in them. Yeah yeah. Uh and you
thought it was some sort of like vestigial cafe of delights. Yeah,
that vestigial cafe just stuff down the street. Yeah yeah,
it's the newest thing with the foodies and hipsters. Yeah yeah,
you can get some sort of like umor worth a
tooth in it. Sorry, but hey, I mean it's it's
(31:37):
Halloween ish, so we can talk about this kind of stuff.
Halloween people are still writing high it. Um. I want
to leave this conversation with a quote. If I May.
This is from new Scientists and talking about the apocalypse
and why it's important to people. It says the apocalyptic
visions also help us make sense of an often seemingly
senseless world. In the face of confusion and annihilation, we
(31:58):
need restitution and reassure. We want to feel that no
matter how chaotic, oppressive, or evil the world is, all
will be made right in the end. The apocalypse, as
histories end, is made acceptable with the belief that there
will be a new beginning. The psychology behind it awesome
and a nice pithy paragraph. Well, speaking of new beginnings,
I'm going to reach inside the listener mail and I'm
(32:19):
gonna retrieve a particular email from listener Mike that deals
with red bull, or more specifically the idea of Southeast
Asian red bull, because I mentioned in a previous podcast
about how when I was in Thailand I had a
Thai red bull and how it was like a totally
different experience then American red bull. It was a sweeter um,
(32:39):
it was insanely like powerful. It's like you felt your
eyes do that incredible hulk thing when you drank it.
And this sounds like this sort of hashy strink. Yeah
it was, but I but I asked listeners like, hey,
has anyone else had this experience? Or did I buy
a painted red bull and just had a weird experience
with it? Well, Mike right, so and he says, hey, guys,
(33:01):
I'm fifteen and a big fan. I heard Robert talking
about the tie red bull and had a very lost
esque flashback. This summer, my mom and dad and I
took a two week trip to Cambodia, very cool to
be with some missionary friends and help out with their hospital.
Cooler red bull was everywhere in Cambodia. We were pretty
close to the border of Thailand. I bought some of
(33:21):
it in a little eight ounce can and it was
definitely how Robert described it. It was much sweeter and
it was uncarbonated. Fantastic stuff. I'll include a picture of
it so you guys can see if any of the
canc look a right like was the red bull in
the in the medicine bottle carbonating? Um? Okay, So I
looked at the picture and it looks it looks different
(33:42):
from what I had. But it's been several years though,
who knows. The branding may have changed, and also Cambodian
red bull might be slightly different from Thai that bull.
I don't know, but I have a suspicion that the chemicals,
uh were very similar. It's possible. I have heard that
coke in Mexico is far different from Cokie night Stage
was actually because that thing, right, Yeah, It's like it's
made with grill sugar versus a high procost corn syrup.
(34:04):
And I don't remember it was carbonated. I just remember
that I felt carbonated drank um. And we have a
couple of other emails here. I'm gonna go through real quick.
Paul writes in from Australia, says, good day. It's Paul
from Australia. Where about the only thing that won't kill
you is our weird, tiny, stingless bees. Anyway, I've been
listening with Rapped Enjoyment since episode one and have wanted
(34:25):
to comment on almost every topic cover. I spent many
hours each day driving and I usually listened in large batches, however,
and have just never gotten around to it. So I
put down my panda sandwich with its side order of
popcorn Cicada's popped a few gummy bears in my mouth instead.
Wiped my mind clear, chased out the devil and his
fiendish dub step, and wrote this of what I can
only assume as my own free will. I had an
(34:47):
interesting moment whilst listening to the podcast on memory when
Julie was reading out the list. When she came to
the test words and read the trick word sweet. I
quickly raced through my memory palace, noticed that sweet wasn't there,
and immediately drew an upper case Q on my forehead
tail on the left. Of course, oop's gotta go, my larval.
Humans are whining about saber tooths on the subway again,
(35:09):
and you know how annoying that can be? All right
again soon if I get enough of the dopamine hit
from this later. Paul ps Lady Gaga, I love that. Wow. Yeah,
he he was able to wrap too many references in.
I think he discovered like about a hundred podcasts in there,
or at least met I don't know, maybe uh six
year or so. Nicely done, Paul, that's going up in
my cubicle. Yes, I like the way this man's mind works.
(35:32):
Here's another one from Timothy. Timothy writes in Robert and Julie,
thank you for this podcast. It's funny that you mentioned
how social stimulation helps feel creativity during this episode and
he's talking about spolinted isolation, because that is exactly what
the simulated social interaction of listening to your podcast did
for me. Please allow me to explain. I've had a
book floating around in my head for a decade or
(35:53):
so and have never really mustered the creative energy to write,
as opposed to the dozens of other products I found
myself involved in. Amazingly, You're description of social isolation and
its effects were identical to the major themes of the
story and completely validated my creative instincts. That encouraging knowledge
gave me a vivid image of the characters I haven't
captured for a long time. Thanks again, I now know
(36:13):
how to find my inspiration in the real life drama
of psychology. Uh. And that was again from Tim. So
that's awesome. I love it when we hear here accounts
of how our listeners have taken something or that we've
covered and have managed to turn that into some new
creative energy or or some new inspiration uh in their
creative life. So yeah, I love that too. I always
(36:34):
think that there are so many different novels that could
come from some of the research that we do. Yes, yes,
I think every basically there's the best selling novel in
every episode. And I just hope that the people who
write those best selling novels and option them option the screenplay.
Uh do they just remember you and I and uh
and just you know, flow us as few bucks when
the millions, you know, just treat us to a dinner.
(36:56):
I don't know. I was gonna say a nice postcard. Yeah,
or look at one of those cheese askets. Well I
would You don't need cheese, but you can send me
the cheese basket when the screenplay is an option for sure. Hey, So,
if you have anything you would like to share with us,
the first stop would be Twitter and Facebook. We're on
both of those that blow the mind. We regularly update
those feeds with cool links. That's about what we're doing,
(37:18):
and we'd love to hear from you, and you can
always get in touch with us by sending an email
to blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.
Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff
from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow,
Stuff To Blow Your Mind News
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