Listener Mail: The Serpent's Golden Apple

It's time once more for Listener Mail, when Robert and Joe read YOUR letters regarding snake pits, tomatoes and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stot to Blow your Mind production of My
Heart radiobum. Hey, welcome is stuck to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and
today we're bringing you some listener mail. Now, our trusty
mail bot Carney has gone through a brilliant transformation where

(00:24):
he has become a naggle bot, a nail faring bot,
or wait no, not nail faring a a office floor
faring bot made of the nails of the dead. Yeah,
at least the exo skeleton anyway, I think everything underneath
is you know, it still has to be made of
the same material. But on the outside he is now

(00:45):
a finger and toe nail based uh automaton and he
belongs to mu spell. Uh should we jump right in
with emails about our episodes on the Tomato? Yeah? Why not? Uh,
let's go right from from nails to tomatoes here. Um,
as always, Carney is delivering the listener mail that you,

(01:07):
the listener, have lovingly um sent in to us. Do
you want to start with this one? From Ian? Here?
Are you okay? If I read this one? Go for it? Okay?
Ian says hi, Robert and Joe, still in partial lockdown
here in the UK and eternally grateful for your rich
back catalog of rabbit holes to keep me occupied. I

(01:28):
think I can offer some insight into the tomacco plant.
Grafting tomatoes isn't that uncommon and used to be more popular.
The usual reason to do it is improved hardiness and
soil type tolerance. The one I've read most about is
dat toura as a root stock, which is supposed to
make the tomato much more cold resistant and tolerant of

(01:50):
alkaline soil, but has been known to lead to toxic tomatoes.
I read some speculation that it depends on exactly how
much of the datura above of ground parts remain, and
it's probably better to just not go there. And in fact,
we're gonna have another email about this in just a moment,
but Ian continues. One I've tried to do myself and failed,

(02:13):
but is available as a novelty plant in the UK
is the tomtato with potato roots on the bottom. I
know a horticulturist who's played around with this. You don't
get a great yield of either crop, but if you
don't have much space. He also tried it the other
way around, which led to potato stems growing small green

(02:34):
tubers at the bottom leaf nodes. Interesting but pointless. Uh.
And then Ian shares a link. I've tried wild tomatoes.
I got seeds from a botanist colleague. The plants were leggy,
sprawling vines that made small, orange ish berries. The flesh
was meally vaguely sweet and sharp. Not great, but if

(02:56):
you were foraging, I could see them being an important
food source. They for the amazing content. Ian. Wow, I
am jealous Ian that you've gotten to try like a
traditional ancestral wild tomato plant. I have no idea what
that would be like. Uh, it's it's crazy. He reminds
me of something that I should have thought of in
the episode as we were recording it. But if you play,

(03:19):
if you've played any of the Fallout games, I'm not
sure at what point this first shows up, but certainly
in Fallout four, and definitely in Fallout seventy six, which
I I played from time to time still to this day. Um,
you can you can raise a garden? You you know
you're crafting instead. A lot of survival of mechanics bound

(03:39):
up in the game, but one of the plants you
grow is something called a potato and um, you know
it looks like a like a tomato on a vine,
but it is supposed to be a mutated hybrid of
the tomato and the potato plant. Yeah, so basically, I
mean it's or at least very similar to what we're
talking about here. Uh, with the novelty plant one can

(04:01):
obtain in the UK. Very interesting. Yeah, I would like
to see one of those plants. Yeah, well, come come
to my camp and fall Out seventy six, Joe, and
you will find several of them growing. Okay, you're doing
a lot of agriculture there, well, you know, just enough
for crafting purposes. Yes, I recall some funny dynamics in
in the followed games where you could you could essentially,

(04:23):
you know, you'd have a problem where you weren't generating
enough food for your settlement and you could solve that
just by just by growing watermelons exclusively. So you know, well,
ye know its supposed to apocalyptic days, so you know,
you get what you get and you don't pitch a fit, right,
I guess. So. Our next message comes from long time

(04:44):
correspondent Jim in New Jersey, who has something to add
on basically the same topic that that ian raised here,
but goes into more mysterious detail. Yeah, so, Jim rights.
Your tomato podcast reminded me of something a little unusual
from The Medical Detectives, which is an anthology of true
medical mystery articles originally published in The New Yorker. Spoiler alert,

(05:05):
I'm going to reveal the main details of the story,
but since the article was published fifty five years ago,
I think it's okay to root. The article tells the
story of a family living on a tobacco farm in
Tennessee who became extremely ill after a meal in late
October nineteen. The meal consisted of split peace soup, spaghetti
with meat sauce, sliced tomatoes, sweetbread, and corn bread. Their

(05:27):
symptoms were so bad that they sought medical help. They
were flailing their limbs and hallucinating the e er. Doctors
ruled out tobacco voicing just from handling it in the barns.
They suspected batchel um, but their symptoms were more severe
than bacheli is um. Toxicology reports were normal. The article
then spends a pator to describing Jimson weed, which is

(05:48):
also in the nightshade family. Along the tomatoes and tobacco.
Jimson weed causes the symptoms they were experiencing, but they
didn't eat any gimpson weed. The mystery continues. Jimson weed
is hardy, and it and withstand the first several frosts
of fall. The husband had grafted a tomato plant onto
a jimson weed to extend his tomato season. They had

(06:09):
eaten the first tomato of that graft in late October.
When asked how he came up with the idea, he
said a neighbor had been doing it for years. The neighbor,
who had not gotten nil grafted his tomato plants on
the base of the jimson lead. The man who had
gotten sick grafted his on the branches of the jimson weed.
The article isn't definitive, but it suggests that the graft
with more jimson weed produced more toxins that found their

(06:33):
way into the tomatoes than the graft with less jimson weed.
The other farmer could have been more tolerant to the toxins, too,
so this is interesting. Oh. One thing that's worth noting,
I guess we didn't say this is that Jimson weed
is an example of or I guess it's the same
thing as to toura, the plant mentioned by Ian in
the last article, and that so that you can graft

(06:53):
them together and grow tomatoes that are edible. But it
apparently depends on like where you grafted how much of
the gymsum plant you use, so that could be the
case with the tobacco tomato graft as well, but I
guess we don't know for sure. By the way, I
don't think we heard any heard from anybody about this,
but just doing a quick search around, it looks like
you could. Of course makes sense given the night shade family,

(07:16):
but it looks like grafting can also take place between
eggplants and tomatoes. O okay, eggmatoes or if you go
with their more elegant name, all burmatoes either want to work. Yeah, alright,
but that one all we we heard from a lot
of people about tomatoes. Yeah, we also got a short

(07:37):
message from June. June says, Hi, Robert and Joe, just
listen to your Tomato part one episode. I love your
show and completely agree with you about the superiority of
fresh tomatoes over store bought tomatoes. But I had to
write in in defense of the tomato horn worm. I
know it's a crop pest, but it's also just a cute,
chunky caterpillar and doesn't deserve its historic reputation as some

(07:59):
kind grosser, poisonous worm. I still remember finding one on
our tomato plants as a kid and being fascinated by
seeing a caterpillar that big. Maybe this is my biologist
side outweighing my gardener side, but I think they're pretty cool.
Looking forward to part two, best June, Well, June, I
hope you liked part two. I don't recall us really

(08:20):
slandering the tobacco hornworm, except to note that what was
historically said about it, right right, right? Um? I think
we just said that to look kind of interesting and
had kind of a gnarly looking horn. But yeah, it
was the historical accounts that really there was one in particular,
and I believe that was outlined in that that main
tomato book that we were referring to, that that people

(08:41):
were just so horrified by it that they considered just
never eating tomatoes again, just abandoning their tomato garden and
just surrendering it to these, uh, the these hordes, of
weird creatures. I mean, it was enough to kind of
make you wonder are they talking about the same organism
or or perhaps they were dealing with just an excessive

(09:02):
amount of them, because certainly one can see how one
of these caterpillars might be interesting, whereas a whole writhing
swarm of them might be enough to to to turn
one's stomach. I don't know, all right. Here's another bit
of a Tomato listener mail. This one comes to us
from Kegan, Hi, Robert and Joe. It's been a bit

(09:23):
since I've sent in some fan mail, but after hearing
you two talk about how most kitchen knowledge is strange, hearsay,
I simply had to write in, you may be interested
in a cookbook that a friend of mine got for
me recently. They may provide some illumination on the myths
and misinformation that pervade typical kitchen knowledge. You actually mentioned
the author In part two of the Tomato Tomato Episodes two,

(09:44):
The Food Lab by j kim Ji Lopez alt Uh.
He goes into full detail of how to prepare a
lot of different meals, how to store food, and how
to do basic kitchen tests, all enhanced by science He's
done hundreds of tests on dozens of recipes and goes
through a full explanation of the how and why as
someone who wanted to learn cooking but also wanted to

(10:05):
understand why I was doing the things I was doing
so I could apply it to more than recipe. It's
a lovely cookbook. Hope y'all are doing well, and I'm
glad to hear Joe has jumped onto the D and
D train recently. Sincerely, Kegan, Well, Keegan, I've got some
news that may not be surprising. I actually owned this book,
The Food Lab by j Ken g Lopez Alt. I've
actually been following Kinji's recipes and and writing for years.

(10:30):
He used to do a lot of writing for the
website Serious Eats, and I love his approach. But yeah,
because he does exactly what you're talking about. He doesn't
just give you a recipe or tell you a technique
to use. He explains why you do it, and and
the why is actually informed by empirical testing, not just
by you know, sort of received knowledge passed down from

(10:51):
from cook to cook or chef to chef over the years. Because,
as we said in the episode, that kind of received
knowledge in fact, contains a lot of misinformation and stuff
that isn't actually based on on anything empirical. It's just
something somebody said at some point and now it's uh, now,
it's just how you do it. A lot of a
lot of times you don't have to do it that way.

(11:11):
H Well, my approach is more, uh, mine is not
to question Martha why mine is about to do and die.
I just I just do what Martha says, and it
tends to work out pretty well. Well. I think he
can points out a very important reason though, to learn why,
which is that learning the why of of things you
do in the kitchen makes you a more versatile cooks.

(11:32):
It makes you less shackled to individual recipes because once
you understand the reason for doing something, you understand now,
oh okay, this technique can be applied to this other
type of dish or this other type of preparation, or
that it can't and why. Yeah, this is true. And
I I kid, I do. I do love some robust
instructions that I can follow to the letter. But I

(11:55):
I have gotten to the point where, yeah, I I
understand some of the things enough to where I can
I can be a little bit flexible, Like if I
want to cut a little time off, I can realize, oh,
I could do this instead, or I can bust out,
you know, I can bust out the insta pot here
because I'm doing the same thing that that she's asking
me to do, et cetera. Now you've inspired a question
that has nothing to do with any of what we

(12:16):
were just talking about. But it's that you call it
an insta pot. I call it an insta pot. Everybody
I know calls it an insta pot. But it's not
called an insta pot. It's an instant pot. And nobody
says the T at the end of the first word,
why is that? Is it Instagram or something like? That?
Is just like causing us to leap over that letter.
Oh really is it not called it is? Cause, yeah,

(12:38):
you're right, it's an instant pot, not an insta pot.
I don't know who the heck says instant pot. Nobody
says that it's the Instagram of pots the world cross huh,
surely they've they've copyrighted insta pot as well. Just realizing
that's what everybody calls it is. It's a strange case
because a lot of times you see people using the

(12:58):
specific brand name for something as the generic name. But
in this case, everybody's referring to it as a thing
that as if this is the the specific product name.
But it's not, like I don't think I've realized it.
They'll just now. It's as if the generic term for
bandages had become band aid or the generic term for

(13:21):
tissues had become clear X. Yeah, I can't think of
another case exactly like this. This is interesting. All right, Well,
I guess we're gonna jump onto email that we got
in response to the horned helm episodes. Now, the context
that this email I think is responding to specifically was
a biological portion where we were looking for examples of

(13:42):
animals that build some form of helmet or horned helmet.
One was a type of caterpillar that would stack old
parts of its exoskeleton on top of its head and
so form a little hat there. But we also talked
about catas flies. Catasflies aren't or is fly larvae to
be specific. Uh, the cats fly isn't a perfect example

(14:05):
because it doesn't really seem to be a helmet that
goes on its head, but it does create a hard
surface that it lives inside. It's really more of a
kind of a rock diaper than a helmet. I guess
not even necessarily rock, just materials from its environment reinforced
with silk. But anyway, Taylor writes in and says, hey,
Robert and Joe Taylor again, longtime fan and now frequent correspondent.

(14:28):
I was listening to part one of your horned Helm
duo today and took a fence on behalf of Catis
fly larvae everywhere when Robert expressed that they look a
little trashy. Robert, I usually respect your instincts, but after
spending several months last year netting cats fly larvae out
of local creeks for entomological study, I have to see

(14:48):
if I can change your mind. Cats Flies aren't picky architects.
They work with the materials available to them, and it's
true that the cases they make out of mud sticks
and plant awful aren't much to look at. But if
provided with the proper materials, the catisfly larva is an
absolute artist. When catisflies spawn in clear rivers with a

(15:08):
lot of minuscule rocks, the cases they make look like
mosaics carried on their backs, and with the right patron
the catisfly can really shine. There are artisans who rear
catisfly larvae in pools they've littered with gyms, pearls, and
gold shavings to make jewelry. The catisflies do as their
want to do and spin beautiful cases from their sponsors materials.

(15:32):
When the catisflyes mature, they abandoned these bejeweled cases for
the artist to collect. The abandoned catosfly cases are then
sealed with resin and sold as ear rings or necklace pendants.
Depending on the materials used. This jewelry can sell for
hundreds or even thousands of dollars. I've included a few
images here for you to check out and describe to

(15:53):
your listeners if you'd like. The first is of a
catasfly collected from the wild, and the second of one
reared by jeweler. If you search for cattisfly jewelry online,
you can find hundreds of designs people have collaborated on
with these tiny trichopterans. As always, I love your show
and I'm immensely grateful for the weird and wonderful content
you continue to entertain and educate me with. I've been

(16:15):
pretty isolated during this pandemic, and it's nice to have
your voices in my ears as I'm painting or doing
any number of more monotonous things throughout the day. Thanks again,
and I hope I've changed your minds about the catasifly well,
thank you, Taylor. Yeah, I would say my mind is
is definitely changed on these guys. I'm looking I looked
at the images that that they sent in. I'm also

(16:38):
looking at an article on this is Colossal dot com
um from two thousand fourteen titled artist Hubert Dupratt collaborates
with Cattis fly larvae as they build aquatic cocoons from
golden pearls. And this is a really cool article. Is
some nice high quality images and even um an animated
jeff of of the catisified building the cocoon of bits

(17:00):
of gold leaf. And yeah, the results are really impressive.
It's a it's a it's an fascinating idea for a
collaboration between larva and artist. And the results do have
this weird, yeah, this is very weird organic quality to
them while still being made out of these um you know,

(17:20):
these materials that humans consider precious. I can just imagine
some high society function where you're admiring someone's ear rings
and they're like, ah, yes, this was a butt sack
made by the larvae of an insect. You know what
it reminds me of as well is the the the
golden scales of small the dragon from the Hobbit. You know,

(17:42):
he's supposed to have all the gold that's become embedded
uh in his otherwise vulnerable belly. Uh. This this kind
of has that kind of feel to it right here.
All right, now, let's get to the nail based content.
Man Carney is shaking with delight. There are just nails
pouring off of him onto the floor. All right. This

(18:04):
one comes to us from Ryan. Hello. I was compelled
to write to you after listening to your podcast about fingernails,
specifically about how to stop biting them. I'm in my
late twenties and I have always bitten my nails, sometimes
to the point where I get hangnails or have ingrown
nails as well. Last year I got married and wanted
to make sure my fingernails looked nice in case there

(18:25):
were close up photos of my hands for the ring.
This may not work for everyone, but it worked for me.
I did a bit of research and I think I
ended up using something similar to CBT. The nail biting
was a habit, something I did without thinking, so I
had to make myself think about it. What worked for
me was apologizing to my nails every time I caught
myself chewing them. This trained me to interrupt the automatic action,

(18:48):
and it was surprisingly effective. Of course, as stress was
one of my triggers. The end of the world as
we know it in has caused me to relapse, But
at least I know that when I have the mental
energy to conquer this habit again, I know it's doable.
As a side note, I was also intrigued about the
notion that usage of a finger makes the nail grow faster.

(19:08):
I noticed that once I stopped chewing and started trimming
my nails, I seem to need to trim them fairly frequently,
more so than my partner did. I wonder if the
additional war of decades of chewing encourage faster than average
nail growth. In any case, thank you for the many
episodes of thoughtful and insightful discussion. I always enjoy seeing
this podcast pop up in my feed with thanks Ryan

(19:31):
M Well, thanks for getting in touch Ryan. I actually
I don't know if the terminal trauma explanation for the
rate of finger nail growth would have lingering effects, like
after the terminal trauma has stopped, even if you know,
even if you've been doing it for years. The stuff
I was reading was about, like, what's happening to your
fingers while the nail is growing so concurrent with the growth.

(19:54):
But uh, it's possible. I don't know. That's an interesting question. Okay,
question should we read this one from Brittany or will
this make people stop listening to the episode? And maybe
we we will give a quick warning, give us, give
us a minute to read this and discuss it. But
if you don't want to hear anything about nail trauma um,

(20:15):
then you can just have just skip over this next
bit of listener mail and come back in on the
next topic. Okay, this is from Brittany. Brittany says, Dear
Robert and Joe. When I was twelve, I managed to
get a fairly big piece of wood stuck under the
nail of my left middle finger. I remember it being
very painful, it felt like my entire heart was beating
in that one spot, but also very interesting to look at.

(20:39):
The school nurse didn't have tweezers, so she used nail
clippers to fish it out. It took a good while
to heal, and whenever any kind of torture involving something
being shoved under the nail is mentioned, I can only
feel the greatest sympathy having experienced a small taste of
it myself. Thanks for the great show, Brittany. Uh. The
thing that really stuck out to me about this was

(20:59):
the sensation of having your entire heart beating in that
one spot. It's like a throbbing that becomes a whole
body sensation. That's oh man, that's powerful. No that um,
I can definitely relate to that from not identical nail trauma,
but some nail issues I had, you know, a decade
or so ago, where like you, the the the amount

(21:22):
of sensation that you feel like um in an ingrown
toenail can be such that it does feel like all
of your nerves are centered on that one spot. You
know that this is the epicenter of all nervous activity
in your body, and I guess to a certain extent
it is at that point. Okay, should we put the
nail nightmares behind us? Yes? We should, and as a

(21:43):
as a kind of palate cleanser. We're gonna take a
quick break, but when we come back, we have all
new listener mail to listen to on a variety of
different topics. Alright, we're back. Oh. It seems during the
break Carney has undergone a transformation. What is happening here?
It appears, And I'm no expert on this sort of thing.

(22:03):
I didn't follow him around, but I think he fell
into a pit of snakes and has emerged with us,
with snakes sleeping through the winter inside him, uh, using
his his body as a broommation chamber. So um, he's
quite a site to behold. So what was once a
creature of nails is now a creature of snakes. Welcome back,

(22:25):
snake bought. Okay, So this first message comes to us
from David. It was about our episode on pie crete.
We actually got to hear from a structural engineer. That's right.
David writes in and says, hello, guys, I listened with
interest to your recent episode on pie crete. The description

(22:46):
of reinforced ice made me think of the more recent
practice of fiber reinforced concrete with either steel or plastic
fibers as a structural engineer. The description of the properties
of ice, including creep, mirrors those of concrete. I wonder
whether the experiments with pike crete was a precursor to
concrete fiber technology and to some extent, uh similar fiber

(23:08):
reinforcements such as fiberglass and f RP plastic. So in
that way, could we say that Jeffrey Pike was a
pioneer of fiber reinforcement technology and engineering. David, that's a
good question, though. I don't think the innovation of putting
the wood pulp inside the ice came from Pike himself.
That came from I believe some researchers in the Eastern

(23:30):
United States out of was it Brooklyn, Brooklyn Polytechnic. It
was something like that. But anyway, Pike had the idea
brought to him and then he picked up on it.
But uh, yeah, good enough, close enough, right, Yeah, Now
it does make me wonder, Okay, if we're talking about
this sort of composite material, then you know where do

(23:53):
we rank various paper innovations. Uh, not not nearly paper itself,
but take for instance, paper mache, which is, you know,
a composite material that has paper pieces or pulp sometimes
textiles bound up with an adhesive. And and this of
course has been around for quite some time. I believe that,
you know, we've discussed some very old versions of this

(24:15):
um in UM what uh mezzo and uh South America.
I think it dates back to you to use in
ancient Egypt and in China as well. UM So I
would I guess I would be hesitant to give Pipe
too much credit in terms of just overall composite material engineering.

(24:36):
But you absolutely got to give him outside the box thinker.
Oh yeah, yeah, still a fascinating individual who came up
with some pretty interesting ideas. All right. We got some
messages in response to a Vault episode that aired recently,
the one about school dreams, you know, the recurring dream

(24:56):
where you have to go back and take the Russian
calculus test. Some of the messages were in response to
a question we asked at the end of the episode
about um whether people still have school dreams if they
had experiences other than just going up graduating from high
school and then maybe going on to college. If people
had dropped out of school at an earlier age, or

(25:17):
had something else going on in their lives at that time,
if they were home schooled. How did that affect their
propensity for school dreams? And so k log gets in
touch with us to say Hi, Joe and Robert. I
missed the school dreams episode the first time around and
was really intrigued to see it pop up. I knew
that many people experienced school dreams, but I assumed mine
were unusual because of my background. Due to homelessness and

(25:41):
a number of family issues, I dropped out of high
school during my freshman year and got my g E D.
I only ever went to high school classes sporadically over
a period of a few months. I had the added
misfortune of having to change schools three times in this
short period. I'm thirty now, putting my high school experience
fifteen years ago. I didn't start having school dreams until

(26:04):
my mid twenties, when I started having them all the time.
I was surprised to find that the basic premise of
my dreams was so common. I find myself at my
first high school on the last day of the school year.
I panic, realizing there's a class I haven't attended all year.
I remember that I couldn't find the classroom on my
first day and was too afraid to ask anyone. I

(26:27):
wander through a maze of high school frantically searching for
this class. It occurs to me that the teacher had
gone out of their way to give a second chance
to finish school, making me feel extremely guilty for letting
them down. These dreams almost always end with me finding
a huge glass door and leaving the building, trying to
get away without being noticed. I'm on the fence about

(26:49):
dream interpretation, but it's so interesting how these things can
tie folks of all different backgrounds together. I associate these
dreams most closely with my general feelings of anxiety and
how it affected my life at different times. It's worth
mentioning that I generally don't regret or feel bad about
having dropped out. I went down a different path, but
it worked for me and I have a great life

(27:10):
now with a family and career. I just wanted to
share to hopefully answer some of those questions. Love the podcast,
Please keep quality dream related content coming, Kayla, Oh, that's interesting.
As a side note, I recently had a school dream again,
and one of the amusing things about it is that
in the school dream, it had been updated for the

(27:34):
COVID era because I was I was it had to
do with stress over um dialing into my classes, into
my college classes and attending them virtually, and I forget
I've already forgotten the details of it, if I was
having trouble connecting or or if I had forgotten the class,
you know, that old trope. But but still it was
it was amusing that that had been updated for like

(27:56):
COVID error class anxiety, despite that having obviously never been
my experience going to school in the past. I don't
know if it was like a combination of like my
son's experiences right now zooming into classes combined with my own,
uh you know, college error anxiety about missing the classes.

(28:18):
I don't know, but it was. It was. It was amusing,
but also yeah, also I guess kind of frustrating to
where you're like, come on, dream world, is is there
nothing better we can have than just a timely updated
version of the tired old school dream. Uh? Yeah, that
that seems like a kind of thing that normally happens,
where a lot of times people bring current relationships and

(28:38):
drama to their school dreams. So it's like I was
at school, I was missing a you know, I hadn't
prepared for a test, but also my current co workers
were there with me, and whatever kind of drama you've
got going on with them was the background of it.
But life, life changes, but the school dreams there there forever.

(29:01):
But this next message has a very interesting variation, Robert,
you want to read this one from James. Yeah, James writes,
I think I have an interesting perspective on the idea
of dreams, not from any research perspective. I'm a high
school and college graduate and my main job is a
fireman and a paramedic. I did start this job in
my early twenties, so I can't speak to dreams coming

(29:21):
from your twenties memory bias. That being said, I never
have school dreams, at least none that I can remember.
I do have work dreams relatively often. All of these
are ridiculous, as ridiculous as Russian calculus, but they're all that.
They are related to just how often things can go
wrong on the job. For example, just last night, I,

(29:42):
by serendipity remember a dream about VTAC. I'm not going
to get into the totality of the dream. However, the
biggest point that stuck with me was that I occluded
an I v this if you're unfamiliar is a process
of stopping blood from flowing out of an ivy prior
to the tubing uh being attached to the hub Um.

(30:03):
I don't know what you're talking about, but I'll let
you care you h. It is also something I was
initially bad at during my training. Anecdotally, I would argue,
because my job is high stress and intensely chaotic, this
outweighs the stress I would have felt in college or
high school, neither of which I remember as particularly stressful.
So I dream of fire and emergency medical calls gone wrong,

(30:24):
or just being off kilter, rather than giving speeches in
my underwear. Sincerely, James, Yeah, that's interesting. I mean it
does sound very much like the school dream dynamic, except
it's not about school. It's about this other kind of
institutional challenge that you're repeatedly facing day after day in
your early adulthood. But that's not all. James also had
something to contribute to our discussion of snakes. Would you

(30:48):
like to take this next part? Joe? Sure. James adds
thoughts about the snake Pit episodes and a separate email,
and this was regarding the liver fascination. Remember in the
episode we talked about all the different myths where the
people would be attacked by snakes, and then it would say,
and the snake was eating his liver, or the snake
was biting him right on the liver. And then we

(31:09):
related this to other strange stories of monsters attacking people
in the liver, the eagle attacking Prometheus's liver, the Kappa
trying to pull out your liver through your anus. What's
going on here? James has a thought. James says, if
you look at most predators eating, their initial attack is
normally towards the stomach or abdomen. I'm now, I'm not

(31:31):
saying these animals are first going after the liver, if
I remember correctly, thereafter the guts to obtain plant nutrients
while it's still freshen the gut. However, from an observation
deduction mindset, I would feel it's easy for an ancient
observer to think that the animal is after the liver,
being the liver is the largest and most prominent abdominal
organ as. Always keep up the good work, sincerely, James.

(31:55):
I don't know if I'd ever heard that rationale for
why predators very often attack the abdomen first. I think
that is true that after a predator is made to kill,
they start eating at the abdomen. But but I've never
heard that it was to obtain plant nutrients from the
prey animals digestive system. I'll have to look into that,
but that does sound plausible at least. All right, well,

(32:20):
we're we're we're wading into the snakes now. We're about
an ankle deep at least, so we're going to continue.
Here is another bit of listener mail. This came to
us from Matt. Hey, guys, a longtime listener, first time writer.
Just finished the Snake pin I mean Din episode, and
I loved hearing you talk about narciss I live in Manitoba,

(32:41):
just north of Winnipeg and east of narciss but I
took a road trip there a few years ago. It
was early in the season, so the snakes weren't super crazy,
but what a cool experience kids running around catching snakes,
writhing balls of snakes in the dens. Uh. Their their
color is such that at first glance you don't think
there's that many in the pit, but then your eyes

(33:02):
start picking out more and more areas of movement. The
sound description is accurate at Persistent Wrestling. My photos suck,
as everything is just all earth colors. But here's a
photo of a statue in Narciss. Uh right, you're right
that the town is really just a few houses, and
he includes this image of this um this really fabulous

(33:24):
fulsa doom esque sculpture that they have there of these
uh kind of writhing arching like what gold and green
snakes on top of a rock pile. I guess they're
supposed to be the garter snakes that that gather there
at the dens, but you know, obviously they're a little
bit bigger. And what I think is funny is that
this statue has inverted the dynamic the snakes come to

(33:47):
the Narciss area because there are sinkholes and pits and
and you know, holes in the limestone that are good
for them to to broomate in. But this puts them
atop a mountain of stone. It's a total of vertical
inversion of the snake dynamic. Yeah, absolutely, but and I
do say it does sort of demand worship as well.
What is the answer to the riddle of snakes? Also,

(34:14):
Matt was not the only Manitoba listener we heard from.
Becca got In touch, and I just want to read
an excerpt from her email. Here, she says that she
loved that we mentioned that Manitoba snake pits are the
largest in the world, and she goes on, I don't
know how that's possible, but how excited I was to
hear that you have no idea. Finally I have something
I can contribute to. It really is a nice Mother's

(34:37):
day activity. It's a really small circular hike, approximately the
size of a football field. I guess the pits are
guarded by a fence, but the snakes often slither across
the track, so you have to walk slow. They are
very docile and in my experiences, don't seem to mind
being picked up. It really is like a huge writhing swarm.

(34:59):
I don't know if I've ever are picked up on
the noise, but there is usually a lot of background
noise going around. When I saw the movie Annihilation and
saw the intestine scene, my first thought was, that's like
the snake pits. Um and Becca attaches some photos for
us to look at, So yeah, thanks for getting in touch, Becca.

(35:19):
All right, on that note, we're going to take one
more break, but when we come back more Listener mail,
thank thank you, thank you. All right, we're back now.
A number of listeners wrote in on our episode on
the spotlight effect. Remember the effect that essentially finds that
people think other people are paying more attention to them
and noticing more about them than they actually are. So

(35:46):
it's quite ironic that the next bit of listener mail
is another one from Jim in New Jersey. So, so, Jim,
please don't make we hope we're not encouraging spotlight effect
by reading a nun another one of your emails, or
that we're not getting into it by thinking that Jim
only thinks about our show and right there all the time.
I mean, Jim is prolific. What can you do? So,

(36:08):
Jim says Robert and Joe, I think the spotlight effect
can be summed up in this quote for which I
can't find the source. Everyone is the star of their
own movie. Yeah. I think that's about right, Jim. Uh So,
he says, I don't think it's unreasonable for children and
young adults to be subjected to the spotlight effect through
the first twenty or so years of their lives. There's

(36:29):
almost always a set of adults watching much of what
children do. Whether it's parents, family members, friends, teachers, etcetera.
Why wouldn't they think they're the center of attention? They
often are. Now, this is very interesting because some of
the psychologists that we were talking about in an episode
highlighted the fact that the spotlight effect is especially pronounced

(36:50):
among you know, teenagers, And Yeah, it makes me wonder
is is that something natural about the brain as it develops.
Would would it be that way no matter what was
going on in the culture around them? Or is it
because you know, by teenage years, you are used to
actually being the center of attention for so much of
your life. Yeah, I don't know, you know. It also

(37:12):
reminds me of something that came up recently about the podcast.
On the podcast, but I don't know if it was
in this episode where we we briefly discussed the the
idea that was certainly written about by iliad A, but
the the idea that that that, especially older cultures, that
anything you did was only meaningful insomuch as it um

(37:34):
you know, went through the paces of some mythic trope. Uh,
and you could you could sort of explain that as
well as as being a statement of of the things
I do are only important if they are doing the
sort of things that that central characters and other stories
do you know, Uh so I could see that kind

(37:55):
of um process playing into uh this. Everyone is a
star in their own moody or in their own narrative thing.
Jim goes on, I noticed the spotlight effect in US politics,
but I'm sure it applies to other countries politics as well.
It's very prominent during congressional hearings when members of Congress

(38:15):
interrogate those who have been called in. From what I've seen,
they are there to present more than to listen. Yeah,
I do think that's often the case. You see what
is ostensibly supposed to be you know, the member of
Congress is supposed to be acting like a prosecutor, acquiring
information or listening testimony from the witness. Very often they're

(38:35):
clearly just performing to to create an impression about themselves.
As for feeling less self conscious about something, I think
a new hairstyle is a good example. My wife's stylist
might cut her hair much shorter than my wife desired.
She often feels very self conscious about it, but in
a day or two she doesn't even notice it. I
don't have bad hair days myself, since I support the

(38:57):
same head style as Jonathan Strickland. Uh, that's our that's
our colleague on tech stuff. That means not having hair.
And then Jim finally finishes with the PostScript, saying, I
just subscribed to Netflix about two months ago during COVID,
and I'm working my way through Black Mirror. Jim, take
it slow, don't don't get too down in the dumps.
It's it's it's it's a tough time for that kind

(39:17):
of a. Yeah, totally, we're living in a Black Mirror
episode already. But but Jim says, uh, finally, I saw
metal Head last week, so I knew the tree climbing
robot dogs reference. I don't remember when we reference that,
but but good on you, Jim. Yeah, yeah, that's a that.
That is a terrifying episode, but probably probably one of
my favorites. All Right, we have another one here. This

(39:43):
one comes to us from Matt Hi, Robert and Joe.
Glad you're both able to stay safe and produce amazing
content from the comfort of your respective bunkers. In your
recent episode about the spotlight effect, you mentioned playing d
and d over zoom and it being exhausting. I may
have a few suggestions to hell. Number one, it's possible
to hide the self view on Zoom. It's in the

(40:05):
menu that appears after clicking on the three little dots
when you hover over your portrait. I find it helps.
Number two, A D and D campaign seems like a
perfect opportunity to have the players use their character avatars.
Under settings, you can select a virtual background to use
for the call, but if you cover your webcam, you disappear.
But the background doesn't have each player put a picture

(40:27):
of their character or reasonable facts. Simile as the vertue
their virtual background and then close the webcam, then nobody
has to feel like they are in the spotlight. Maybe
the d M has an image of a formless evil
presence or something. Now the question becomes, will you still
be tempted to stare at your avatar or will you
need to hide that as well? Stay safe, Matt, Well,

(40:49):
I think these are some of these are some great tricks. Uh.
You know, this email came in I think before my
most recent session, and I tried to do some of
these things, but then I realized, oh, we don't actually
use Zoom for this, We use um, Google meat or
something like that. And I'm even less sure how to
pull the different various bells and whistles on that one. Um,

(41:11):
but I I like the idea, yeah, of making myself
go away and replacing it with my character's image, as
that would be more immersive because when we're playing, I
don't know. I I'm at the point with with with
the doing remote d n D where a lot of
the things that are difficult about it are really starting
to to grind me down. I'm really missing the the

(41:36):
physical hangout aspect of playing. And the part that I
enjoy the most is, you know, getting immersive and being
a character, um, being my character through the through the
interface and something like that sounds like it would be
a good tool to use. I think this is about

(41:59):
a shattering on TV that pre dates Terminator too. Yeah,
this is exciting this because this because my part of
my whole theory was, and I still stand by this,
that Terminator to gave us a shattering scene that had
a huge impact on other sci fi movies and TV shows,
and everybody wanted to do the same gimmick and use

(42:19):
the same technology. Um. However, they do not seem to
be the first. Carrie writes in and says hi gentlemen,
love your show. I'm a truck driver and ing a
lot of podcast and other audio formats. Just wanted to
throw in a scene from a two part mini series.
I think V from nineteen eighty three. Now, I don't
think i've ever seen V. I'm vaguely familiar with it.

(42:40):
It's like an alien invasion show. Yes, starring Mark Singer
from Beast Master. Yeah, he was in at least two
episodes of it. I mean you got you got Andrew
Prin in there as well. Um uh, it looks like
an interesting cast. Robert England shows up. I've never seen it,
but maybe I gotta look it up, all right. Carrie
Continue is a character in that gets his forearm and

(43:02):
hand frozen by liquid nitrogen and then breaks it off
stumbling to safety. It's funny. I remember watching the entire series,
but I only remember that reptile people and a woman
with long black hair. I had to google it for
the year. Keep up the good work. Your show is
one of a few I have no problem real listening
to Carrie Well, thanks Carry and now now I gotta

(43:23):
check this out. It does look it looks like some
early eighties TV production values magic and certainly it does
push the timeline back further regarding the beginning of our
liquid nitrogen obsession. So perhaps James Cameron had watched v
and thought, that's pretty good. I could do something with that.
Go whole body. You just do an arm that's weak.

(43:45):
But now we've got homework for you. You listening out there,
find us the earliest shattering of a human body on
in film or in fiction. Where's where's the earliest one?
I gotta know, Well, here's the other thing. It needs
to be ice, because you will find precursors that are stone.
Someone's turned to stone and then they shatter that way.
But particularly I'm interested in ice, al right. Next you

(44:13):
get a very brief note from Samantha. It just says,
I just watched The Tingler. It was awesome. Thank you, Sammy. Yes, yeah,
p s. I also went an alien slash Predator slash
predd alien bing. I think she meant binge, but I
liked being even better. I went on an alien bing

(44:34):
and she says, y'all are rocking it. Well, thank you, Sammy.
I'm I'm glad you liked The Tingler. Yeah. Anytime we
can turn people onto high quality cinema, like this, I
feel like we're doing our job right. What do we
know about the Tinglas? Alright, here there's another one. This
comes to us from August. Hello friends, a quick one.

(44:57):
Just watch Star Wars episode one and the Clone Wars.
So I think Robert mentioned doing the same. How about
an episode about four armed beings? I'm thinking about the
pod racer Gascano or the infamous General Palm Krell. Just
a thought. Also love the pi Crete episode. More about materials.
Please with love and admiration, August. Um, Yes, that's a

(45:20):
great point about four armed beings. Um Joe, I don't know.
I know you have. You haven't seen Clone Wars, but
perhaps if you think back to um the movie Attack
of the Clones, there's a scene where Obi Wan is
in a in a diner meeting with the diner operator,
and he is a four armed alien. He is a
basal sick. I believe it's the name of the species. Wow. Yeah,

(45:44):
oh no, I don't want to start a fight. I
know that you're you're more of a prequel over now
than I am. But I do recall thinking, mainly that
that scene had some of the worst c G I
I had ever seen in a major Motion picture. Uh
that that creature was was a crime. Well, I think
you're gonna anger the Scorpion King with words like that. Um. Regardless,

(46:06):
the same species shows up in Clone Wars. There's this
there's this awesome character named General Palm Krell and uh
and he is a fourth sensitive individual of this species.
He wields um I think dual double sided um lightsabers,
and he's just an interesting character because um uh he's

(46:28):
I think he's really the first Jedi that you encounter
where you you begin to to uh to question his
motivations and his devotion to the war. He's almost kind
of a um, kind of a Kurts type character where
you begin to to really um recoil from the way
that he he treats the Clone troopers and how he's

(46:51):
using them on the battlefield. It's a really that's a
really great story arc with that character. I won't spoil
anything for anybody, but that's that's one of the really
good story arcs in the show. I looked up images
and I will say this has the distinction of being
the only character I've ever seen who looks like a
really tough, bad dude but also has a throat sack
like a frog, just a jelly inflatable throat sack. Yeah,

(47:14):
it's I feel like it's probably a really interesting design
um choice on the makers of the Clone Wars part
because they took a character that you know that was
designed as like an alien just an alien diner operator
and you know, um, and then they made they used
that species as the template for a totally different style character.

(47:35):
But it's still it works really well. It's like, could
we make a like a tough, badass Jedi hut. Now
back to the number of arms that I don't know
we could put potential. It would be potentially interesting to
get into the whole four armed multi armed uh uh discussion,
because of course we could talk about Palm Crew. We
could also talk about Goro uh we we've touched on before,

(47:58):
and then you can get into various other multi armed
entities from various mythologies. Uh uh. There's some really good
ones out there. There's some some in Greek mythology with
just way too many arms, as I recall what like
hundred arms and so forth, Like how do you even
how do you even use all those arms? I don't know.
That's one of the things in ancient mythology and religion.

(48:19):
That often strikes me as the strangest is uh, the
creatures that are imagined having this great multiplicity of body parts,
say the visions in the Book of Revelation with creatures
with X many wings and x many heads, where at
a certain point you just start imagining, I don't know
how to even picture that or what those things would do.
You know what, why why would you have ten wings?

(48:42):
Would that be useful? Yeah? It tends to work so
much better in my opinion anyway, with with with in
Hindu iconography, because you have, first of all, a visual
representation of what this multi armed form would look like.
But then also it's it's obvious that the visual symbology
is about um portraying aspects of this divine being, Like

(49:06):
what are the things they are holding in their hands?
And how many hands do they have to hold those things?
And then what that does that say about the capabilities
of the divine. It's a lot simpler with Goro. What
is Goro holding his hands? Next? That's it? Right? Yeah?
Or maybe like goblets? Right yeah? Goblets? And next that's it.
Goro only drinks from goblets? Can you invite him over

(49:28):
to your house. You offer him a mug of coffee.
He's like, no, put it in a goblet. Okay. A
couple more messages here, both related to Star Wars. This
one is from Villain. Villain says, Hi, Robert and Joe.
I've been listening to stuff to blew your mind for
about eight years, but I don't think I've ever written.

(49:50):
I'm normally at least a month behind, and when i
get the urge to write in, I always think, I'm
sure someone else has written about that in the meantime.
But once you talk Star Wars, I'm ready to risk
potentially repeating someone else. Never never be afraid, villain. You know,
sometimes we get some duplicated sentiments, but that's okay. In
your discussion of the Mighty Sarlak, I was waiting for

(50:11):
someone to bring up the aspect that interested me the most.
Quote a new definition of pain and suffering as you
are slowly digested over a thousand years, or that's what
C three p O says. That Jama Java is promising
them as they will be thrown into the sarlac um.
I always took that to mean that the victim is

(50:31):
kept alive for a thousand years in order to experience this. However,
even if you were to take it that the victim
dies quite quickly but their corps is digested over a
thousand years, then the digestive process takes longer to break
down the body than it would take if the body
were to decompose naturally. Whether the victim lives a thousand

(50:52):
years or not, being digested by a sarlac is still
a kind of horrific preservation. Taking the more interesting reading, though,
that the victim remains alive throughout the process. My first
imagining is a monkey's paw scenario. I want to live
for a thousand years. Sure, meet your new buddy, the sarlac.
And the second thing that comes to mind while wondering

(51:14):
how a sarlac might prolonged sapient life is your two parter,
The devourer of memories about planaria worms and whether they
can incorporate memories by eating, and whether the extended life
of a sarlac's victims is a shadowy existence as a
memory in a worm. Very interesting, but I guess you
don't have time to cover everything. Thanks for all the

(51:36):
work that you put into researching and recording the show,
and thanks also to Seth Nicholas Johnson for their efforts.
It's a consistently excellent show regards villain always always good
to get a shout out for Seth. Seth does amazing work. Absolutely.
Seth is the one that kind of stitches everything together
with the pieces that we provide. Um, this is some

(51:56):
wonderful starlac um uh thoughts there. It does bring me
though back again to that short story I mentioned that
episode um a bar of like that, the Tale of
Boba Fette by J. D. Montgomery from Tales from Jaba's Palace,
which is just a short story from because um, it's
still been a very long time since I read it,

(52:17):
but I was refreshing myself a little bit about it
by reading a summary, and yeah, there's this whole bit
where while he's in the belly of the Sarlac Uh,
Boba Fette is put in telepathic contact with one of
its first victims, um and uh. And they're like flashbacks
concerning other victims of the Sarlac as well. So there's
a lot of really um imaginative stuff that's pulled off

(52:39):
in that story. And I'm kind of I have heard
I have heard rumors that Boba Fette is coming back
in the second season of The Mandalorian. Um. I don't
know if that's a if that if it's real, or
if it's going to be you know, some other character
pretending to be Boba Fette, But I'm hoping that if
they do actually bring him back, uh, they consider getting

(52:59):
some ideas from this particular short story. Um. Now, obviously
they already filmed it, they're already written, they've already written it,
so whatever is gonna happen, it is going to happen.
But I hope that they hope that they looked at
this story because there's some cool, cool ideas in it.
All Right, here's another bit of listener mail. This one
comes to us from Kale. Kale writes and says, Hey,

(53:21):
Robert and Joe. First off, I want to say that
I absolutely love the show. I really appreciate the work
you guys put into it. I love the jokes and
puns and recommendations you all put in as well. During
the Starlac episode, you guys pondered the reason, uh, the
reasons why Star Wars fans were so interested in Boba Fett,
and I think it has to do with the Star
Wars animated series The Clone Wars. In this show no spoilers.

(53:44):
They delve into his story through multiple episodes, and it's
very interesting. Also, I highly recommend watching it if you haven't,
and especially if Robert has been sharing his love of
Star Wars with his son. The show is enjoyable and
very fun for children and adults alike. I wasn't even
interested in watching the live action movies until my partner
showed me the animated series. Plus, there are lots of
episodes set on planets with cool creatures and interesting alien races.

(54:08):
If you have Disney Plus you can stream it on there.
I hope you all are staying safe and healthy, Sending
much love and good vibes your way. Uh Kale Now
this this, of course, I should add that that Starlac
episode came out before I did, indeed, started watching Clone
Clone Wars with my son. Um. We are currently Um

(54:28):
let's see what what what season? We're in? Like season six?
I think? And uh yeah, we we were loving it.
They did, They've done. They did such a great job
creating the show. Um and and it's a show that
again kids and adults can both enjoy. It's just light
years ahead of any of the animated series I had
access to as a kid. I love the development that

(54:49):
they give all the main characters as well as all
these side characters and some of the more obscure guests
that pop up. Uh. Some great monsters and creatures in
there as well. But indeed, Bobba Fett, like a young
Baba Fet does show up and is an interesting character.
They have him sort of bouncing around the universe, falling
in with some some other bounty hunters, and also seeking

(55:10):
revenge because of course he wants revenge on Mace wind
Do uh, the the individual who killed his father. Um,
and of course Mace Window is a very very dangerous
um object for one's revenge. I keep feeling like at
some point I'm just gonna have to watch this show
or else I'm never going to be able to relate
to you again, because it's like half your brain now,

(55:33):
um it is, it's become U. Yeah. My main jam
this COVID season is this also the source of that
that amazing spider lad you shared with me. The magnificent
gentleman with the Walrus mustache style chillissery. Yeah, Admiral Trench,
who's like a big Admiral tarantula creature that shows up

(55:55):
fighting with for the Separatist Yeah, very good. Okay, well,
maybe maybe I'll get there sometime in the near future.
I will say, though, I think I want to disagree
with something Kale said, which is that that the fascination
with Boba Fett could be rooted in uh the character
appearing in and having a good storyline in the Clone Wars.
This definitely predates the Clone Wars TV show. I remember

(56:17):
when I was a kid, my Star Wars friends were
obsessed with Boba Fett, and I thought he was cool.
But I still even then didn't quite get it. Was like,
you just don't know much about him. And I think
maybe that's part of it. He was exciting because he
had cool looking armor and you didn't know much about him. Yeah,
I mean, I absolutely, I absolutely agree with that. Um.
But but I will say that you know, when when

(56:39):
the storytelling is is really on point, um, you know,
the mystery can be transformed into something, uh, something even
more satisfying. Um. Like. Another example of this is that
you have the character of Darth Maul, who of course
shows up in The Phantom Menace. Is a really interesting
looking character. We don't know much about them and are

(57:00):
there seemingly slain at the end of that movie. Well,
Clone Wars brings him back. And I knew the Clone
Wars was going to bring him back, and I was
a little suspicious of it. I'm like, hey, he was
cutting half. I don't really know that I need Darth
Maul to come back. Um, he was only so interesting.
There's the mystery of the character, etcetera, etcetera. But I
have to say they did a really fabulous job bringing

(57:21):
him back. The Darth Maul return arc that occurs on
Clone Wars is is superb stuff, and they made the
character far more interesting, uh than than than than anything
he had going for him in Phantom Menace was is
he I don't know, I'm cutting half pretty bad Dowey. Oh,
I mean, um, it's I don't want to give much away,

(57:43):
but basically, imagine you know a character like that, that
is that is that has survived all these years just
mostly based on hate. Like that's the power of the
dark side, is um, you know, sufficiently evil characters they
never really die because they're too hateful, they're too too
off to to pass on to another existence. That's right.

(58:03):
Build yourself an armor of Hatred and evil, a lesson
of Star Wars. Well, you are tempting me because I
gotta know. Does Darth Maul talk? Uh, because he's only
got two in the movie, right, Yes, he does talk,
and in fact a really awesome voice actor by the
name of Sam Whitworth or perhaps it's vit Vir. I'm

(58:23):
not sure. I haven't heard his name pronounced out loud,
but um, he he does the voice and it's terrific,
Like he's able to really inject this kind of desperate,
doomed pain into the character. Um, because he's like you
really get the sense of a character that should have died. Uh,
that is alive just purely because of his hate and

(58:45):
um yeah, it's it's just fabulously done. All right. Well,
there we have it. Um, we're gonna go ahead and
close it out there. We had a lot of great
listener mail that we were able to read in this episode.
We also received a lot of great listener mail that
we just didn't have time for here today. Uh, and
is always I just want to let everybody know, just
remind you you know, we we we rarely respond to
listener mail, um via email, and we can only read

(59:09):
so much of it on the show, but we do
read everything that comes in and we do greatly appreciate
hearing from everybody. Everybody has has such great perspective on
the topics that we cover additional factoids. Uh Also, um
A listener suggestions for episodes are always helpful, So just
keep keep sending it in and we'll keep trying to
put out listener mail episodes. Maybe not every month, but

(59:31):
you know, UM as regularly as as we can. And
in the meantime, if you like to check out other
episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, you can find
us wherever you get your podcasts and wherever that happens
to be. We just ask that you rate, review and subscribe.
You just thinks as always to our excellent audio producer
Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in
touch with us with feedback on this episode or any
other to suggest the topic for the future, just to

(59:53):
say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff
to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your
Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
for my heart Radio, this's the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen me to your favorite shows.