December 20, 2012 • 32 mins
Sure, you sprinkle nutmeg indifferently on your eggnog, but do you know its bloody history and psychotropic properties? In this episode, Julie and Robert discuss the weird side of an everyday spice and why you should use it sparingly but often.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the two thousand twelve Toyota Cameray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind?
From how Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, you welcome to
stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb
and I'm Julie Douglas, and we are just coming off
(00:23):
of the holidays here in which we all, to our shame,
had a little bit too much of all the various
holiday things. Uh, the holiday foods, the holiday visits with family, um,
the holiday travel, the listening to the holiday music at
the train station as it's piped in to fill everyone
with holiday cheer and reduce gang violence. It seems like
(00:45):
Christmas last for several months, just forever. But one of
the things that's reassuring is when we can find some
little bit of Christmas that also has a dark side
to it, or I don't reassuring to me, be at
Crampus in his his relationship with St. Nick, or in
this case, a little something called nutmeg, which, as you say,
(01:06):
it's a little bit of Christmas that you can find
all year long. Yeah, I mean it basically is the
smell of Christmas, right it is, and and people love it.
They love it on their eggnog, on their fancy coffee drinks,
and in some savory dishes. Um. It's probably something that
you've never considered before as having an evil side, but
in fact it does. You also have it insiders. Um,
(01:30):
I don't like him. Inside. I love cider, but but
there's something about either if it's hard side or a
soft side, or it's got the nutmeg, and I don't
really go for it. But but in other things, like
a little bit of of nutmeg on top of some eggnog,
a little bit of nutmeg on top of even like
a vanilla milkshake. It gives it just a little a
little punch, right, there's a little just some heat to it,
like a dry heat. Yes. And it's actually that's app
(01:53):
that you say that's a dry heat, because it's explained
that way in what we say, or what we call
the four temperaments. Um. And we talked about this before,
this idea that there are four different tomperaments that rule
the human body. This is a very old idea, dry, cold, hot,
and wet. So Um. This spice is actually thought to
help with various ailments because the idea is that you
(02:15):
have to balance these four temperaments. So when you have
this spice, which is kind of like a bitter cinnamon um,
it is thought, at least in some ancient civilizations and cultures,
that it could actually have a myriad effects on your body,
which we will explore a bit. Yeah, I mean it's
in it's in a lot of cool Indian dishes. It's
(02:37):
it's in coca cola. Uh, you find it all over
the place, but it is. It is, like we said,
it's a very old thing using the nutmeg, But some
of the more ancient uses of it really relate more
to medicinal purposes and folk medicine purposes, in addition to
in some cases culinary sources as well. So it has
a very interesting history which we're going to get into,
(02:59):
and then it has a very arresting effect on the
human body, depending on how much you're taking in. Well,
let's get to the nut of it, as it were. Yes,
what is the nutmeg? Right? Is it some fancy spice
that I don't know comes out of a dead sand worm?
Is it? Is it carved out of the earth. No,
it's it's like you said, it's from this nut right, Yes,
And it comes actually from the nutmeg tree which has
(03:21):
grown commercially in Indonesia, Penang Island, Malaysia, and the West Indies.
It's an evergreen with thick, dark green leaves and reaches
a maximum height of forty feet um and in some
cases or some areas that actually shrub like, and it
has fragrant yellow flowers that produce yellow fruit about the
size and the shape of apricots. And a lot of
(03:43):
people don't realize that it's actually coming from this fruit
bearing tree. And so you get you have the fruit,
and if you peel away the fruit, or if you're
like a two can, two cans apparently love to eat
the fruit, peel away the fruit and you'll find basically
you'll find in here the nutmegs seed and the nutmegs
seed itself is wrapped up in these flaps of of
(04:03):
what is called mace, which is another spice derivative is
obtained from the mace. So that kind of netting on it. Yeah,
it's kind of like this netting kind of like an
outer uh well not an outer skin, but peel a
way the first layer of fruit and then there'll be
another small layer of mace, and then in the very
center that's your nut that's your nutmeg seed, and that's
(04:23):
what's dried by sunlight for about one to two months.
And then when it's dried, it's pretty much like oval
in shape and about an inch long, has a wrinkled surface,
and it's got fragrant oil contained in the veins of
the seed and that's what gives it that nice scent um,
that that that aroma that we associate with the holidays. Yeah, now,
how long have people been using nutmeg and things. It's
(04:46):
really hard to say, certainly millennia, just to be vague
about it. We know that it's been used in Asia
for just ages. We know that the ancient Romans used it,
but mainly to sprinkle into alcoholic drinks, which which we
still do to some agree today. I was looking around
and uh, there were none of the drinks or anything
I was particularly familiar with. But there are drinks, mixed
drinks and cocktails that call for nutmeg. That's far to
(05:08):
Medieval Renaissance banquets and mason nutmeg were both very popular,
along with things like cinnamon, which they would just throw
into dishes, just large amounts, because I guess at that
time maybe the more you could cover up, the better. Right,
and then and then in the centuries to follow it
became so fashionable among French courmets that you'd actually bring
your own nutmeg to a banquet so that you could
(05:30):
add nutmeg to your to your own dish, to your
own particular taste. Well. And that was absolutely a sign
of wealth too at that time, right, because then this
became the spice of the upper classes because it was
so highly coveted at that time the seventeenth century um
and onward into the eighteenth century that European traders were
selling it at nearly a six thousand percent mark up. Yeah,
(05:52):
this stuff was just like gold. It was. We saw
one historian who's referring to it as the iPhone of
the time too. It's just like so popular. Everybody had
to have it, I mean to the point where people
had to have it nearly because it was a status symbol. Yeah. Absolutely,
if you were carrying it, that meant that you were
a player. Yeah, you're a player at the table. Like
they had like rap videos back back in the sixteenth century.
(06:15):
You can totally imagine like guys leaning back, uh, you know,
showing off their their nutmeg shaker or grinder or whatever.
Method you would you would choose to to really show
off your nutmegitude. Yeah, I know, I'm just trying. I'm
putting the wrap is now like coming together. I'm thinking
like Tico Brahy kind of a dude, you know, just
really you know, with a total gangster lean kind of
(06:37):
going on with a nutmeg shaker. No, I'm seeing a
tricorn hat perhaps. Yeah. Um. So obviously this becomes a
really big deal in the spice trade, along with clothes
and cinnamon. Um. But what you began to see is
that there are two different countries that are trying to
have some sort of dominancy over this particular nutmeg spice trade,
(06:59):
and that is Britain and um in the Netherlands. And
they're both trying to push each other out because again
we're talking about a six thousand percent markup right, like
this is yielding great results. I mean, they've got crops
that aren't doing nearly as well. Um, They've got you know,
various livestock that's not going to bring in this kind
of money. So it becomes a really big deal. Yeah.
(07:19):
And at the time, the other thing that makes it
really crazy is that as far as anyone knew, there
was really only one place to get it, despite you
know the fact we mentioned earlier, it was it was,
it was in India. You see it popping up in
the aer vedic traditions, you see it popping up in
Asia the ancient Romans. So we're able to get their
hands on it. But as far as the Dutch and
the English knew, the only place to get it was
to sail out to the Run Islands in the Banda Sea,
(07:43):
which is now eastern Indonesia. And there were a few
islands there, and that's where you went to get the nut. Well,
and you know, this is um this is the part
of eastern Indonesia. And what you have going on here
is you've got the Dutch again trying to be dominant here.
And unfortunately, what they're doing at this time in the
Run Islands is that they're telling the inhabitants, if you
(08:04):
share any of these seeds with anyone, we will kill you.
And they do. Actually, they actually conduct a bit of
a genocide on this island, really straight up horrible, like
running people off of cliffs, beheading people. And then if
you if you weren't actually killed out right, you ran
the risk of being deported under horrifying conditions that you
probably would not survive. Uh. And in upwards of of
(08:27):
the native population was just wiped out in the name
of this super fashionable spice which everyone was into. I
mean maybe on some level because of the flavor. Sure,
it does add a unique punch to anything you sprinkle
it on, but then so much of it was prestige
and then these various ideas about what it can do
for you healthwise, which we'll get into in a little bit. Right. Right, So,
(08:48):
there are various reasons why the Dutch wanted to try
to clamp down on the islanders and make sure that
they didn't trade these seeds or sell these seats. And yeah,
I mean they're absolutely vicious, very bloody. Um. But that
didn't obviously stop the trade because you have some British
people who would come and they would grab the plants
and then they would just plant them elsewhere. Um. India's
(09:09):
when of the places that they transported Brazil eventually as
Sri Lanka. Yeah, and then you have birds, birds eating
the fruit and then poving out the seeds in various
places along the way. Um, you can't stop the birds. Right.
It reminds me of Monsanto, which is the seed company
here in the United States that has a patent on
(09:30):
certain seeds, and every once in a while they will
try to prosecute farmers who they say are growing their
seeds without having actually purchased the seeds, when in fact
those seeds actually were blown by the wind over to
their land. So it's sort of you know, you get
into this situation where it's kind of futile to try
to control nature like this. But that's what the Dutch did. Yeah,
you see commercialism and imperialism, uh, smashing head on with
(09:55):
natural cycles of biology. Yeah. So it's it's crazy and
all simately tragic though that it ends in so much bloodshed.
And of course this is where Manhattan comes in. Yes,
Manhattan New Amsterdam as some of our older listeners but
I guess, uh but but yeah, so that the Dutch
had their little slice of New York here and uh,
(10:17):
eventually this goes to British hands, right, But but but
what was the trade? What? What was what was valuable
enough that they would give up the city that what
would become the city that never sleeps? Well, okay, the
Dutch are looking at New Amsterdam. They're saying Okay, there's
a fur trade, fur trade going on here, but it's
not nearly as lucrative as this nutmeg thing. And we've
got to shut this down. Yeah, because they wanted a
monopoly on nutmeg, like that was the whole thing. That's
(10:39):
why they were vicious enough to wipe out the whole populations.
They wanted just to lock down all of it. Nobody
gets nutmeg except through the Dutch. But then there's this
one island out there, what was thought to be the
only place in the world to obtain nutmeg. One island
is in British hands. So this becomes the trade. This
is that, this is what they have that the Dutch
want more than anything. Yeah, and here's the thing. They say, Okay, look,
(11:02):
we will give you this entire island, all the fur
trading that you could ever want, if we can just
go ahead and close this loophole on run Island and
just go ahead and give it to us officially. And
the British do acquiesce. They're not very excited by the trade,
by the way, like, I don't know really what to
do about this, um, But this is how how Manhattan
actually changed hands via nutmeg. All right, all that history
(11:27):
stuff will push it to the side because we want
to start talking about nutmeg itself and what it does
to the human body. Yes, now I do want to
mention real quick. I was I was reading and apparently
nutmeg is still a big deal if you're Dutch, like
Dutch cuisine, it like does call for a lot of nutmeg,
a lot of cinnamon, a lot of clothes, you know,
(11:47):
in any of these things that used to be a
really exotic and powerful spices. I mean, they were so
important at the time. They've remained in an essential part
of their culinary tradition. So even even though around the
eighteen hundreds nutmegs ceased to be the super exotic thing,
people moved on to getting excited about coffee and chocolate,
tobacco more so than before. So but like you said,
(12:10):
what is it due to the body? What? What are
the health benefits? And this was part of the equation
from early on because when we when we look back
at references to nutmeg, nutmeg was showing up in medical
texts and in dietary text before it was showing up
in culinary text. So it's people were realizing this was
something useful, this is something that could be used in
in folk medicine to heal various ailments, and it was,
(12:33):
and it's a wide array of ailments that it could
apparently or supposedly deal with. Yeah, and this is why
I ended up in cookery, right, because people are trying
to incorporate it into what they ingested. Around the time
of the Black plague too, people wore bags of the
spice around their necks as protection against the black plague,
and that might seem kind of silly, but um, it's
(12:55):
plausible that nutmeg actually repelled fleece that carried plague cause
in bacteria, so there was something perhaps to this. Um.
The smell of nutmeg is actually due to something called
iso u shun all, a natural pesticide that the plant
uses to defend itself against um predators like insects and
fun guy. So it's very possible that this was a
(13:17):
sort of pesticide that was worn around the neck to
ward off fleas. Cool and another big one was dysentery
or is the Brits caught it back then the bloody flux,
which sounds even more dreadful, but it was believed that
that nutmeg could help with that. So yeah, and then
according to Drs. Joseph Pizzorno and Michael Murray, the authors
(13:39):
of the Encyclopedia of Healing Foods, Nutmeg oil inhibits over
twenty five species of bacteria, including equal I. As far
as nutrients go, nutmeg is a good source of vitamin A,
vitamin C, iron copper, also a protein or MAGA six,
fatty acids, dietary fiber. So there's even if you if
you discount some of the wilder claim, so there's a
(14:00):
lot of really good stuff going on in in nutmeg.
It's good for liver health. Researchers even today have concluded
that that it has a liver productive actions that were
that are due to its ability to reduce inflammatory immune
chemicals in the human body that would otherwise potentially harm
the liver. And it's also been found to relieve symptoms
of pain and inflammation, so it could also help with
(14:22):
other various symptoms, if not even the core ailments. You know.
So there are some definite health advantages just straight straight
up on the table that nuting. They can offer whether
it was actually able to secure any kind of dysentery,
might ever plague, well maybe not, but it is a
healthy thing to ingest, at least in small quantities. Ah,
and that's the key, right. And see that's when if
(14:43):
we had sound effects, we would have like lightning and
thunder cracking, and we begin to talk about nutmeg the vice. Yeah,
and this is this is where the where it really
gets interesting. And I think this was ultimately what initially
drew our interest and certainly continues to draw a lot
of people's interests. The idea of nutmeg as a narcotic
nutmeg as an illicit substance that can do all sorts
(15:05):
of strange things to you despite being just right up
there in the spice rack totally legal and uh and
and just you know, just glaring at you and I
guess tempting you to some weird degree um you here
every time you open the spice cabinet. Now, we do
need to mention though, before we even get into it,
(15:25):
just in case someone wants to run off and grab nutmeg,
do not do it, because because if we're gonna discuss
your taking nutmeg for some sort of illicit pharmaceutical response
is for the most part of stupid idea. Because there
seems to be two categories right right when people take
nutmeg for recreational purposes. Either it makes them horribly sick,
(15:50):
or it gives them just a really horrible time for
about forty eight hours where they're basically just delirious, or
or there's a third category where you kind of get
both your delirious and you're just violently ill, uh and
sometimes even hospitalized. Yeah, I mean they kind of you
kind of should look at it is like the runs high, right. Yeah.
The first question comes to mind is when did people
(16:11):
start figuring this out that if you ingest a lot
of nutmeg, and when we say a lot of nutmeg,
we're talking like spoonfuls of the stuff. We're like a
whole container of nutmeg. But when did people first getting
get this idea in their head that they should try
it or then it or that once they've tried it,
that it does have some sort of strange effect on
the human body. Well from Atlantic Magazine article My Nutmeg
(16:32):
bend Or by Wayne Curtis, he says that the Benedictine
abbess Hilda Guard of binging Nice Benin noted the mind
altering effects of nutmeg all the way back to the
twelfth century. So we've got some documentation that people were
dabbling around with it. Then apparently in air vadic medicine,
ancient Indian medicine, it was known as mata shonda or
(16:55):
narcotic fruit, and it was sometimes chewed with beetle to
excite one or it was actually consumed orally to excite
the libido. And this is this is an interesting area,
the idea that that okay, if you take nutmeg, uh,
it could potentially enhance your sex life. And again a
(17:15):
very old idea. We see it in ancient India and
you see it come up again in various other Texas.
People set out to try and figure out exactly what
nutmeg can do for the body when it's taking taken
in abnormal doses. There was a man by the name
of Andrew Board, and he had a book called Dietary
of Health UH in which he says generally nutmegs be
good for them which have cold in their head and
(17:36):
does comfort the site and the brain. But he uh,
interestingly enough, he's a it was a celibate monk, you know,
valve of chastity. And he also suggested that nutmeg damp
and sexual desire, which which were reportedly according to some
of the dirt on this guy, it didn't really work
all that well for it, or maybe he was trying
to tap down so much desire that even large quantities
(17:59):
of nuting meg didn't help. But then there's another interesting
I guess you would say nutmeg psychonot the Earl of Dorset,
Charles Sackville. And this guy, this is the late sixteen hundreds,
and we see a reference to him in Samuel Peep's diary.
Charles Sackville would would regularly take a spoonful of nutmeg
before bedtime, and he claimed that this would fill his
(18:21):
dreams with all manner of illicit scenarios, and then he'd
wake up in the morning rather excited by it. Uh
And and according to Samuel Peete's um, Sackville eventually wound
up in the slammer after a night of quote running
up and down all night, almost naked through the streets.
So um, all right, But then again, to what extent
is this just rather excitable guy anyway? And he takes it,
(18:44):
you know, the placebo effect could be in full, full effective. Yeah,
there's no I mean, there's no evidence that it really
is an aphrodisiac, but researchers have found it to increase
mating behaviors in mice, and it's known to stimulate the
circulatory system and increase and flow, so it stands to
reason that it could help in terms of sexual drive.
(19:05):
But and then again, we're talking about large doses here,
because because generally the consensus is small doses of of
nutmeg on a regular basis, as in the kind of
nutmeg that you would use in cooking or putting on
top of your coffee, or the occasionally a mixed drink
or Christmas side or what have you. All that is
perfectly fine. It's not gonna hurt you at all, and
(19:26):
it will probably have beneficial effects. But it's the ingestion
of let's say, a whole nutmeg seed. Right, this is
a huge spoonful every night, that kind of right. This
is where we begin to see some some of the
hallucinogenic facts of it. And you had already noted some
of the possible side effects including loose bowels, vomiting, accelerated
heart rate. But also, according to Wing Curtis in that
(19:50):
article my Nutmeg Vendor, nutmeg burps at twenty minute intervals. Yeah,
I mean again, people, this is not sexy stuff here. Um,
this is probably not something that you want to take
and then uh, you know, have a date. In fact,
you don't want to take it at all. Um. Over
and over again we saw accounts of this, of people saying,
this is not really um a hallucinatory experience that is
(20:12):
exalted in any way, This is not desirable experience. This
is I mean because they're also things like giddiness, laughing fits, yes, fantasies,
but also nausea, the heart palpitations, hallucinations. Generally speaking, there
seemed to be two categories of people. The vast majority
are the people who try it once and then realize
it was a stupid thing they did and they never
(20:33):
do it again. And then there's a very small category
of people who were just really maybe there's just a
there's an obsessive personality about them, or they or they
have just an inflated idea of what it's doing for them.
So you see people like Charles Sackville who at least
claims to have taken in large doses of it in
a regular basis thinking or to some extent, getting some
(20:54):
sort of illicit use out of it. Or I was
looking around on moder earn message boards and I ran
across one individual who was just really gung ho about
figuring out a way how to how to break the
nutmeg code, like how to how to combine nutmeg with
other substances so that he could get this trippy experience
without any of the side effects, which it just seems
(21:15):
like he was putting a lot of work into a
just an undesirable coal. And I said, so, by and large,
you see people who take it once and never take
it again. You can look on YouTube and you'll find
people who stupidly decide they're going to take the nutmeg challenge,
because there's a lot of that. Have you ray familiar
with this scenario? I think there was like a cinnamon challenge,
(21:36):
and and there's like stuff like Saby challenge where it's
just idiots taking spoonfuls fulls of things and choking them
down and generally choking because you're not supposed to have
a spoonful of with Your body knows a spoonful of
sabby is a bad idea. Your body knows that a
spoonful of nutmeg is a bad idea, and that's why
you literally have to choke it down if you're taking
(21:57):
large amounts of it. So people inevitably, general eight teenagers
with a webcam end up doing this and just having
an awful time because you at the very least you're
gonna it's gonna feel nasty going down. Uh, you're gonna
and you're gonna feel totally out of sorts for something
like forty eight hours. Takes about four hours to set in,
(22:17):
and then you're looking at forty eight hours even three
days of just feeling weird and awful and zombie like
and sluggish. You might maybe you'll feel a little bit
like you're flying, but you'll also have diarrhea. So well,
and that's what Wayne Curtis details in his article in
Atlantic Magazine. I mean, he says that you know, it
took effect on him and for a couple of days
it took a while to to shake off and um.
(22:40):
He says that it's hallucinogenic properties are likely from the
molecules of mistresson and elemison and Mrson is a nutmeg
and has a chemical structure that shares similarities with mescaline,
uh amphetamine, and ecstasy. And in the Dictionary of Hallucinations,
it says that nutmeg has been ported to mediate visual
(23:02):
auditory tactile and Kinney's kin aesthetic hallucinations, notably the sense
of floating, as you had already mentioned. So what I
think is really interesting is that Curtis actually went to
the trouble of trying this to see what sort of
effect it would have on him. And before we discussed that, um,
I wanted to point out that people have resorted to
(23:25):
using this it looks like in cases where they could
not obtain other substances, and I'm talking about in prison,
because there are a lot of rumors that, um, you know,
people have used it in prisons, uh to to try
to get high. And in fact, in Malcolm access biography,
he says that a penny match book full of nutmeg
had the kick of three or four reefers. Again, you know,
(23:47):
this experience is going to vary from person to person,
but largely what people are reporting is that they're not
having a mellow high or anything like that. We're again
we're talking vomit and diarrhea here. Yeah. I mean it's
important that we're talking about prison scenarios because because this
is also a scenario where individuals are going to be
kind of desperate for any kind of sensory change. You know,
(24:10):
they want a different experience and the thing that they're
having every single day, and if the various other forms
of stimulation are withheld from them, then they may have
no other choice in their view, to tries things like nutmeg.
H So in many prisons to this day, it's still
it's difficult to find nutmeg in the kitchen because they're
just not gonna stock it because somebody's gonna end up
(24:31):
taking it. But again, it's it's just not going to
be a pleasant time. Um. There are also stories that
jazz musicians, particularly Charlie Parker, reportedly partook of nutmeg. Supposedly, um,
I mean supposedly nutmeg wasn't the only thing that Charlie
Parker took. But it's just it's again this this is
on no one knows for sure. Like I was reading
(24:52):
a um on one of our articles we're looking after this,
they were talking about it. It's kind of like a
mystery that nobody wants to talk about, like the the
jazz musicians the secret of jazz is nutmeg, which I
don't buy for a second, you know, Yeah, yeah, um.
I do think it's interesting that it really didn't even
become known in the Western world really until I think
(25:12):
that's sixties and one of the first people to ferret
it out was Dr Andrew Wild, who at the time
was submitting his thesis for honors in biology at Harvard University,
and he was he he wanted to really make an
inquiry into nutmeg as a narcotic and a hallucinogenic and uh,
he kind of sort of went through the whole thing.
And it's very interesting, but because before then, again people
(25:33):
didn't really think of it as having any sort of
hallucinogenic properties. But you probably know Dr Andrew Wild now
is someone who has been at the at the sort
of forefront of what you would say integrative medicine is
and really looking at these various natural um herbs implants
(25:54):
to try to integrate into medicine and get some sort
of benefit from Yeah, it's a it's a fascinating paper
a young while put together UM and it's also amusing
too because there's so many beatnecks in it. He keeps
talking about UM. One one particular that encounter that he
mentioned because he mentions talking to this guy and that
guy that you know it doesn't use any names, but
(26:16):
particularly is interested in in the At one point in
the article, he is interested in individuals who normally take marijuana,
but when they can't obtain marijuana, then supposedly they turned
a nutmeet, which, as we've already illustrated, clearly nutmeg is
not equatable with marijuana use. But but he was just
asking around. It's like, is this true? When you can't
(26:37):
have marijuana, do you have nutmeg? And there's one Harvard
graduate in particular that while talked to who answered him
by saying, oh, here, step over here to your spice cabinet.
And he opened the spice cabinet and he points at
all the various things that he is pretty much everything
in here, but msg if you take enough of it,
it's going to have some sort of weird effect on
your body. Uh, you know if you're palpations. Yeah, yeah,
(26:58):
it could be sentiment, it could be paprika. But if
you take enough of anything, and certainly a spice, because
the spice is gonna be a very potent substance that
it just we don't use in large quantities, but if
you consume a large quantity of you're gonna get some
sort of reaction, probably not a good one. Yeah. I
also like that paper too, because you can see all
(27:18):
of as handwritten molecular compounds. I'll have all of his
drawings very quaint. Uh. But yes, so it's I think
that kind of gives you an idea of of how again,
it's not this uh wonderful high that people are seeking.
There's probably a reason why it's not something that is
done in drug culture A lot right, not so great.
(27:41):
Back to Wing Curtis. In the article, he talks about
his nutmeg bender. Let me just read a little bit
of his own experience. He says that, both dubious and intrigued,
I grated up a whole nutmeg and part of another,
producing about one and a half table spoonful of powder.
I swallowed it in one small spoonful at a time,
chasing each gulp down with water. Um. He says. Consumed
in that quantity, nutmeg loses its fuel to high goodness
(28:04):
and tastes like turpentine. Perhaps my dosage was too low
or my nutmeg too desiccated. I did go through an
early giddey phase when everything seemed immensely amusing, including the
shingles on my neighbor's house, and I felt a slight
floating sensation when walking around the neighborhood. But mostly I
just felt out of sorts for a couple of days.
When I tried to write, my words sometimes became unmoored
(28:25):
from my thoughts. Though, to be fair, of this happens
even without the influence of nutmeg. You know, again, not
so not so exciting description here, a lot of trouble
going through trying to get some sort of high out
of that. Yeah, it's not you don't. You don't encounter
romantic descriptions of nutmeg us. It's just it's it's only
(28:46):
a failure or or a real failure. I mean. And
then there have been cases where individuals, um, you know,
I've been hospitalized or in some cases possibly died from
using it. The chances of dying from nutmeg poisoning or
are pretty slim, but it's it's always it's always possible,
and certainly it's also possible to for there to be
drug gut interactions as well. So, I mean, everybody's body
(29:08):
is different. It depends on you know, what's going on
inside you, what other substances you're taking, what your particular
health situation is. So I think what we're saying is kids,
just keep it on the top of your coffee. You
know what I'm saying, Just a couple of sprinkles will do. Yeah,
or apparently, as the Joy of Cooking says, use it
sparingly but often so it's probably a good good place
(29:30):
to leave it. But but still, I will admit, even
though even though I am I would, I will absolutely
never try and choke down a whole bunch of nutmeg
in the hopes of stuff weird happening and to me
and standing forty eight hours on a toilet, Um, the
next time I sprinkled nutmeg on it, I will I
will certainly have that in the back of my mind.
I'll feel a little cooler using my nutmeg because I'm like,
(29:51):
look at me, I'm like a I'm like a Dutch aristocrat. See,
I'll just think about the bathroom thing. My mind will
go straight to the gutter. All right, So there you go. Um.
That is actually a nice little precursor for a couple
of episodes that are coming out. To look for them,
we were going to talk more specifically about hallucinogen's shamans
all sorts of good stuff, um, in the various ways
(30:14):
that we tried to manipulate the mind. All right, Well,
on that note, let's call over the robit and look
at the listener mail. Here's one from our listener, Marcio.
Marcio writes sentences, Hi, Robert and Julie. I'm a listener
from Portugal who, for obvious reasons doesn't observe Thanksgiving, but
of course still listen to the Turkey episode. You may
(30:34):
recall the part about the origin of the bird's name
and how the British called everything Oriental Turkish, including something
that was merely traded by Eastern merchants. Interestingly enough, kind
of the same thing happened with the Portuguese in the
sixteenth century. Spanish America was properly referred to as Peru.
When the Spanish first brought that bird to Europe, we
called it Peru, and it's still that name. It still
(30:56):
has that name today. At least we got the continent right.
Thank you for the cast. I'm a fan. Have fun, Marcia,
so that's in it. Certainly that ties in nicely with
this episode in which we talked about international trade and
how it affects our understandings of various products. You know,
also on the Thanksgiving episode, we we ruminated in that
(31:17):
particular episode about the possibility of a killer turkey horror
movie and possible. Yes, and lo and behold it exists.
A number of you pointed out that there is a
movie by the name of Thanks Killing, Thanks Killing that
appears to to star a kind of skexy, light evil
turkey puppet that goes around killing people, and it's it's
(31:39):
currently the one Netflix streamings, which is which is pretty cool.
So yeah, it is out there. You should totally check
out the trailer at the very least. It's it's very
funny stuff. So there you have it. A little listener
mail there. If you would like to write in with
your thoughts on nutmeg, we would love to hear about them. Again,
do not actually try and take a bunch of nutmeg
and then expect that we're gonna read your thoughts about
(32:00):
it on on on the podcast Taking my Head now. Yeah,
absolutely not, but we would love I would particularly love
to hear any of you who are Dutch or who
have had a lot of Dutch cuisine. I'd love to
know about the nutmeg in that culinary condition, that kind
of thing. I would love to hear about anything else
not related that you may have to share that doesn't
involve spooning down that man. If you want to share
(32:20):
this kind of thing with us, you can find us
on Facebook and tumbler. If we're we are stufforable in
your mind on both of those, and you can also
find us on Twitter, where our handles blow the mind.
And you can always drop us a line at blow
the Mind at discovery dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
(32:42):
dot Com brought to you by the two thousand twelve
Toyota Camera. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the two thousand twelve Toyota Cameray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind?
From how Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, you welcome to
stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb
and I'm Julie Douglas, and we are just coming off
(00:23):
of the holidays here in which we all, to our shame,
had a little bit too much of all the various
holiday things. Uh, the holiday foods, the holiday visits with family, um,
the holiday travel, the listening to the holiday music at
the train station as it's piped in to fill everyone
with holiday cheer and reduce gang violence. It seems like
(00:45):
Christmas last for several months, just forever. But one of
the things that's reassuring is when we can find some
little bit of Christmas that also has a dark side
to it, or I don't reassuring to me, be at
Crampus in his his relationship with St. Nick, or in
this case, a little something called nutmeg, which, as you say,
(01:06):
it's a little bit of Christmas that you can find
all year long. Yeah, I mean it basically is the
smell of Christmas, right it is, and and people love it.
They love it on their eggnog, on their fancy coffee drinks,
and in some savory dishes. Um. It's probably something that
you've never considered before as having an evil side, but
in fact it does. You also have it insiders. Um,
(01:30):
I don't like him. Inside. I love cider, but but
there's something about either if it's hard side or a
soft side, or it's got the nutmeg, and I don't
really go for it. But but in other things, like
a little bit of of nutmeg on top of some eggnog,
a little bit of nutmeg on top of even like
a vanilla milkshake. It gives it just a little a
little punch, right, there's a little just some heat to it,
like a dry heat. Yes. And it's actually that's app
(01:53):
that you say that's a dry heat, because it's explained
that way in what we say, or what we call
the four temperaments. Um. And we talked about this before,
this idea that there are four different tomperaments that rule
the human body. This is a very old idea, dry, cold, hot,
and wet. So Um. This spice is actually thought to
help with various ailments because the idea is that you
(02:15):
have to balance these four temperaments. So when you have
this spice, which is kind of like a bitter cinnamon um,
it is thought, at least in some ancient civilizations and cultures,
that it could actually have a myriad effects on your body,
which we will explore a bit. Yeah, I mean it's
in it's in a lot of cool Indian dishes. It's
(02:37):
it's in coca cola. Uh, you find it all over
the place, but it is. It is, like we said,
it's a very old thing using the nutmeg, But some
of the more ancient uses of it really relate more
to medicinal purposes and folk medicine purposes, in addition to
in some cases culinary sources as well. So it has
a very interesting history which we're going to get into,
(02:59):
and then it has a very arresting effect on the
human body, depending on how much you're taking in. Well,
let's get to the nut of it, as it were. Yes,
what is the nutmeg? Right? Is it some fancy spice
that I don't know comes out of a dead sand worm?
Is it? Is it carved out of the earth. No,
it's it's like you said, it's from this nut right, Yes,
And it comes actually from the nutmeg tree which has
(03:21):
grown commercially in Indonesia, Penang Island, Malaysia, and the West Indies.
It's an evergreen with thick, dark green leaves and reaches
a maximum height of forty feet um and in some
cases or some areas that actually shrub like, and it
has fragrant yellow flowers that produce yellow fruit about the
size and the shape of apricots. And a lot of
(03:43):
people don't realize that it's actually coming from this fruit
bearing tree. And so you get you have the fruit,
and if you peel away the fruit, or if you're
like a two can, two cans apparently love to eat
the fruit, peel away the fruit and you'll find basically
you'll find in here the nutmegs seed and the nutmegs
seed itself is wrapped up in these flaps of of
(04:03):
what is called mace, which is another spice derivative is
obtained from the mace. So that kind of netting on it. Yeah,
it's kind of like this netting kind of like an
outer uh well not an outer skin, but peel a
way the first layer of fruit and then there'll be
another small layer of mace, and then in the very
center that's your nut that's your nutmeg seed, and that's
(04:23):
what's dried by sunlight for about one to two months.
And then when it's dried, it's pretty much like oval
in shape and about an inch long, has a wrinkled surface,
and it's got fragrant oil contained in the veins of
the seed and that's what gives it that nice scent um,
that that that aroma that we associate with the holidays. Yeah, now,
how long have people been using nutmeg and things. It's
(04:46):
really hard to say, certainly millennia, just to be vague
about it. We know that it's been used in Asia
for just ages. We know that the ancient Romans used it,
but mainly to sprinkle into alcoholic drinks, which which we
still do to some agree today. I was looking around
and uh, there were none of the drinks or anything
I was particularly familiar with. But there are drinks, mixed
drinks and cocktails that call for nutmeg. That's far to
(05:08):
Medieval Renaissance banquets and mason nutmeg were both very popular,
along with things like cinnamon, which they would just throw
into dishes, just large amounts, because I guess at that
time maybe the more you could cover up, the better. Right,
and then and then in the centuries to follow it
became so fashionable among French courmets that you'd actually bring
your own nutmeg to a banquet so that you could
(05:30):
add nutmeg to your to your own dish, to your
own particular taste. Well. And that was absolutely a sign
of wealth too at that time, right, because then this
became the spice of the upper classes because it was
so highly coveted at that time the seventeenth century um
and onward into the eighteenth century that European traders were
selling it at nearly a six thousand percent mark up. Yeah,
(05:52):
this stuff was just like gold. It was. We saw
one historian who's referring to it as the iPhone of
the time too. It's just like so popular. Everybody had
to have it, I mean to the point where people
had to have it nearly because it was a status symbol. Yeah. Absolutely,
if you were carrying it, that meant that you were
a player. Yeah, you're a player at the table. Like
they had like rap videos back back in the sixteenth century.
(06:15):
You can totally imagine like guys leaning back, uh, you know,
showing off their their nutmeg shaker or grinder or whatever.
Method you would you would choose to to really show
off your nutmegitude. Yeah, I know, I'm just trying. I'm
putting the wrap is now like coming together. I'm thinking
like Tico Brahy kind of a dude, you know, just
really you know, with a total gangster lean kind of
(06:37):
going on with a nutmeg shaker. No, I'm seeing a
tricorn hat perhaps. Yeah. Um. So obviously this becomes a
really big deal in the spice trade, along with clothes
and cinnamon. Um. But what you began to see is
that there are two different countries that are trying to
have some sort of dominancy over this particular nutmeg spice trade,
(06:59):
and that is Britain and um in the Netherlands. And
they're both trying to push each other out because again
we're talking about a six thousand percent markup right, like
this is yielding great results. I mean, they've got crops
that aren't doing nearly as well. Um, They've got you know,
various livestock that's not going to bring in this kind
of money. So it becomes a really big deal. Yeah.
(07:19):
And at the time, the other thing that makes it
really crazy is that as far as anyone knew, there
was really only one place to get it, despite you
know the fact we mentioned earlier, it was it was,
it was in India. You see it popping up in
the aer vedic traditions, you see it popping up in
Asia the ancient Romans. So we're able to get their
hands on it. But as far as the Dutch and
the English knew, the only place to get it was
to sail out to the Run Islands in the Banda Sea,
(07:43):
which is now eastern Indonesia. And there were a few
islands there, and that's where you went to get the nut. Well,
and you know, this is um this is the part
of eastern Indonesia. And what you have going on here
is you've got the Dutch again trying to be dominant here.
And unfortunately, what they're doing at this time in the
Run Islands is that they're telling the inhabitants, if you
(08:04):
share any of these seeds with anyone, we will kill you.
And they do. Actually, they actually conduct a bit of
a genocide on this island, really straight up horrible, like
running people off of cliffs, beheading people. And then if
you if you weren't actually killed out right, you ran
the risk of being deported under horrifying conditions that you
probably would not survive. Uh. And in upwards of of
(08:27):
the native population was just wiped out in the name
of this super fashionable spice which everyone was into. I
mean maybe on some level because of the flavor. Sure,
it does add a unique punch to anything you sprinkle
it on, but then so much of it was prestige
and then these various ideas about what it can do
for you healthwise, which we'll get into in a little bit. Right. Right, So,
(08:48):
there are various reasons why the Dutch wanted to try
to clamp down on the islanders and make sure that
they didn't trade these seeds or sell these seats. And yeah,
I mean they're absolutely vicious, very bloody. Um. But that
didn't obviously stop the trade because you have some British
people who would come and they would grab the plants
and then they would just plant them elsewhere. Um. India's
(09:09):
when of the places that they transported Brazil eventually as
Sri Lanka. Yeah, and then you have birds, birds eating
the fruit and then poving out the seeds in various
places along the way. Um, you can't stop the birds. Right.
It reminds me of Monsanto, which is the seed company
here in the United States that has a patent on
(09:30):
certain seeds, and every once in a while they will
try to prosecute farmers who they say are growing their
seeds without having actually purchased the seeds, when in fact
those seeds actually were blown by the wind over to
their land. So it's sort of you know, you get
into this situation where it's kind of futile to try
to control nature like this. But that's what the Dutch did. Yeah,
you see commercialism and imperialism, uh, smashing head on with
(09:55):
natural cycles of biology. Yeah. So it's it's crazy and
all simately tragic though that it ends in so much bloodshed.
And of course this is where Manhattan comes in. Yes,
Manhattan New Amsterdam as some of our older listeners but
I guess, uh but but yeah, so that the Dutch
had their little slice of New York here and uh,
(10:17):
eventually this goes to British hands, right, But but but
what was the trade? What? What was what was valuable
enough that they would give up the city that what
would become the city that never sleeps? Well, okay, the
Dutch are looking at New Amsterdam. They're saying Okay, there's
a fur trade, fur trade going on here, but it's
not nearly as lucrative as this nutmeg thing. And we've
got to shut this down. Yeah, because they wanted a
monopoly on nutmeg, like that was the whole thing. That's
(10:39):
why they were vicious enough to wipe out the whole populations.
They wanted just to lock down all of it. Nobody
gets nutmeg except through the Dutch. But then there's this
one island out there, what was thought to be the
only place in the world to obtain nutmeg. One island
is in British hands. So this becomes the trade. This
is that, this is what they have that the Dutch
want more than anything. Yeah, and here's the thing. They say, Okay, look,
(11:02):
we will give you this entire island, all the fur
trading that you could ever want, if we can just
go ahead and close this loophole on run Island and
just go ahead and give it to us officially. And
the British do acquiesce. They're not very excited by the trade,
by the way, like, I don't know really what to
do about this, um, But this is how how Manhattan
actually changed hands via nutmeg. All right, all that history
(11:27):
stuff will push it to the side because we want
to start talking about nutmeg itself and what it does
to the human body. Yes, now I do want to
mention real quick. I was I was reading and apparently
nutmeg is still a big deal if you're Dutch, like
Dutch cuisine, it like does call for a lot of nutmeg,
a lot of cinnamon, a lot of clothes, you know,
(11:47):
in any of these things that used to be a
really exotic and powerful spices. I mean, they were so
important at the time. They've remained in an essential part
of their culinary tradition. So even even though around the
eighteen hundreds nutmegs ceased to be the super exotic thing,
people moved on to getting excited about coffee and chocolate,
tobacco more so than before. So but like you said,
(12:10):
what is it due to the body? What? What are
the health benefits? And this was part of the equation
from early on because when we when we look back
at references to nutmeg, nutmeg was showing up in medical
texts and in dietary text before it was showing up
in culinary text. So it's people were realizing this was
something useful, this is something that could be used in
in folk medicine to heal various ailments, and it was,
(12:33):
and it's a wide array of ailments that it could
apparently or supposedly deal with. Yeah, and this is why
I ended up in cookery, right, because people are trying
to incorporate it into what they ingested. Around the time
of the Black plague too, people wore bags of the
spice around their necks as protection against the black plague,
and that might seem kind of silly, but um, it's
(12:55):
plausible that nutmeg actually repelled fleece that carried plague cause
in bacteria, so there was something perhaps to this. Um.
The smell of nutmeg is actually due to something called
iso u shun all, a natural pesticide that the plant
uses to defend itself against um predators like insects and
fun guy. So it's very possible that this was a
(13:17):
sort of pesticide that was worn around the neck to
ward off fleas. Cool and another big one was dysentery
or is the Brits caught it back then the bloody flux,
which sounds even more dreadful, but it was believed that
that nutmeg could help with that. So yeah, and then
according to Drs. Joseph Pizzorno and Michael Murray, the authors
(13:39):
of the Encyclopedia of Healing Foods, Nutmeg oil inhibits over
twenty five species of bacteria, including equal I. As far
as nutrients go, nutmeg is a good source of vitamin A,
vitamin C, iron copper, also a protein or MAGA six,
fatty acids, dietary fiber. So there's even if you if
you discount some of the wilder claim, so there's a
(14:00):
lot of really good stuff going on in in nutmeg.
It's good for liver health. Researchers even today have concluded
that that it has a liver productive actions that were
that are due to its ability to reduce inflammatory immune
chemicals in the human body that would otherwise potentially harm
the liver. And it's also been found to relieve symptoms
of pain and inflammation, so it could also help with
(14:22):
other various symptoms, if not even the core ailments. You know.
So there are some definite health advantages just straight straight
up on the table that nuting. They can offer whether
it was actually able to secure any kind of dysentery,
might ever plague, well maybe not, but it is a
healthy thing to ingest, at least in small quantities. Ah,
and that's the key, right. And see that's when if
(14:43):
we had sound effects, we would have like lightning and
thunder cracking, and we begin to talk about nutmeg the vice. Yeah,
and this is this is where the where it really
gets interesting. And I think this was ultimately what initially
drew our interest and certainly continues to draw a lot
of people's interests. The idea of nutmeg as a narcotic
nutmeg as an illicit substance that can do all sorts
(15:05):
of strange things to you despite being just right up
there in the spice rack totally legal and uh and
and just you know, just glaring at you and I
guess tempting you to some weird degree um you here
every time you open the spice cabinet. Now, we do
need to mention though, before we even get into it,
(15:25):
just in case someone wants to run off and grab nutmeg,
do not do it, because because if we're gonna discuss
your taking nutmeg for some sort of illicit pharmaceutical response
is for the most part of stupid idea. Because there
seems to be two categories right right when people take
nutmeg for recreational purposes. Either it makes them horribly sick,
(15:50):
or it gives them just a really horrible time for
about forty eight hours where they're basically just delirious, or
or there's a third category where you kind of get
both your delirious and you're just violently ill, uh and
sometimes even hospitalized. Yeah, I mean they kind of you
kind of should look at it is like the runs high, right. Yeah.
The first question comes to mind is when did people
(16:11):
start figuring this out that if you ingest a lot
of nutmeg, and when we say a lot of nutmeg,
we're talking like spoonfuls of the stuff. We're like a
whole container of nutmeg. But when did people first getting
get this idea in their head that they should try
it or then it or that once they've tried it,
that it does have some sort of strange effect on
the human body. Well from Atlantic Magazine article My Nutmeg
(16:32):
bend Or by Wayne Curtis, he says that the Benedictine
abbess Hilda Guard of binging Nice Benin noted the mind
altering effects of nutmeg all the way back to the
twelfth century. So we've got some documentation that people were
dabbling around with it. Then apparently in air vadic medicine,
ancient Indian medicine, it was known as mata shonda or
(16:55):
narcotic fruit, and it was sometimes chewed with beetle to
excite one or it was actually consumed orally to excite
the libido. And this is this is an interesting area,
the idea that that okay, if you take nutmeg, uh,
it could potentially enhance your sex life. And again a
(17:15):
very old idea. We see it in ancient India and
you see it come up again in various other Texas.
People set out to try and figure out exactly what
nutmeg can do for the body when it's taking taken
in abnormal doses. There was a man by the name
of Andrew Board, and he had a book called Dietary
of Health UH in which he says generally nutmegs be
good for them which have cold in their head and
(17:36):
does comfort the site and the brain. But he uh,
interestingly enough, he's a it was a celibate monk, you know,
valve of chastity. And he also suggested that nutmeg damp
and sexual desire, which which were reportedly according to some
of the dirt on this guy, it didn't really work
all that well for it, or maybe he was trying
to tap down so much desire that even large quantities
(17:59):
of nuting meg didn't help. But then there's another interesting
I guess you would say nutmeg psychonot the Earl of Dorset,
Charles Sackville. And this guy, this is the late sixteen hundreds,
and we see a reference to him in Samuel Peep's diary.
Charles Sackville would would regularly take a spoonful of nutmeg
before bedtime, and he claimed that this would fill his
(18:21):
dreams with all manner of illicit scenarios, and then he'd
wake up in the morning rather excited by it. Uh
And and according to Samuel Peete's um, Sackville eventually wound
up in the slammer after a night of quote running
up and down all night, almost naked through the streets.
So um, all right, But then again, to what extent
is this just rather excitable guy anyway? And he takes it,
(18:44):
you know, the placebo effect could be in full, full effective. Yeah,
there's no I mean, there's no evidence that it really
is an aphrodisiac, but researchers have found it to increase
mating behaviors in mice, and it's known to stimulate the
circulatory system and increase and flow, so it stands to
reason that it could help in terms of sexual drive.
(19:05):
But and then again, we're talking about large doses here,
because because generally the consensus is small doses of of
nutmeg on a regular basis, as in the kind of
nutmeg that you would use in cooking or putting on
top of your coffee, or the occasionally a mixed drink
or Christmas side or what have you. All that is
perfectly fine. It's not gonna hurt you at all, and
(19:26):
it will probably have beneficial effects. But it's the ingestion
of let's say, a whole nutmeg seed. Right, this is
a huge spoonful every night, that kind of right. This
is where we begin to see some some of the
hallucinogenic facts of it. And you had already noted some
of the possible side effects including loose bowels, vomiting, accelerated
heart rate. But also, according to Wing Curtis in that
(19:50):
article my Nutmeg Vendor, nutmeg burps at twenty minute intervals. Yeah,
I mean again, people, this is not sexy stuff here. Um,
this is probably not something that you want to take
and then uh, you know, have a date. In fact,
you don't want to take it at all. Um. Over
and over again we saw accounts of this, of people saying,
this is not really um a hallucinatory experience that is
(20:12):
exalted in any way, This is not desirable experience. This
is I mean because they're also things like giddiness, laughing fits, yes, fantasies,
but also nausea, the heart palpitations, hallucinations. Generally speaking, there
seemed to be two categories of people. The vast majority
are the people who try it once and then realize
it was a stupid thing they did and they never
(20:33):
do it again. And then there's a very small category
of people who were just really maybe there's just a
there's an obsessive personality about them, or they or they
have just an inflated idea of what it's doing for them.
So you see people like Charles Sackville who at least
claims to have taken in large doses of it in
a regular basis thinking or to some extent, getting some
(20:54):
sort of illicit use out of it. Or I was
looking around on moder earn message boards and I ran
across one individual who was just really gung ho about
figuring out a way how to how to break the
nutmeg code, like how to how to combine nutmeg with
other substances so that he could get this trippy experience
without any of the side effects, which it just seems
(21:15):
like he was putting a lot of work into a
just an undesirable coal. And I said, so, by and large,
you see people who take it once and never take
it again. You can look on YouTube and you'll find
people who stupidly decide they're going to take the nutmeg challenge,
because there's a lot of that. Have you ray familiar
with this scenario? I think there was like a cinnamon challenge,
(21:36):
and and there's like stuff like Saby challenge where it's
just idiots taking spoonfuls fulls of things and choking them
down and generally choking because you're not supposed to have
a spoonful of with Your body knows a spoonful of
sabby is a bad idea. Your body knows that a
spoonful of nutmeg is a bad idea, and that's why
you literally have to choke it down if you're taking
(21:57):
large amounts of it. So people inevitably, general eight teenagers
with a webcam end up doing this and just having
an awful time because you at the very least you're
gonna it's gonna feel nasty going down. Uh, you're gonna
and you're gonna feel totally out of sorts for something
like forty eight hours. Takes about four hours to set in,
(22:17):
and then you're looking at forty eight hours even three
days of just feeling weird and awful and zombie like
and sluggish. You might maybe you'll feel a little bit
like you're flying, but you'll also have diarrhea. So well,
and that's what Wayne Curtis details in his article in
Atlantic Magazine. I mean, he says that you know, it
took effect on him and for a couple of days
it took a while to to shake off and um.
(22:40):
He says that it's hallucinogenic properties are likely from the
molecules of mistresson and elemison and Mrson is a nutmeg
and has a chemical structure that shares similarities with mescaline,
uh amphetamine, and ecstasy. And in the Dictionary of Hallucinations,
it says that nutmeg has been ported to mediate visual
(23:02):
auditory tactile and Kinney's kin aesthetic hallucinations, notably the sense
of floating, as you had already mentioned. So what I
think is really interesting is that Curtis actually went to
the trouble of trying this to see what sort of
effect it would have on him. And before we discussed that, um,
I wanted to point out that people have resorted to
(23:25):
using this it looks like in cases where they could
not obtain other substances, and I'm talking about in prison,
because there are a lot of rumors that, um, you know,
people have used it in prisons, uh to to try
to get high. And in fact, in Malcolm access biography,
he says that a penny match book full of nutmeg
had the kick of three or four reefers. Again, you know,
(23:47):
this experience is going to vary from person to person,
but largely what people are reporting is that they're not
having a mellow high or anything like that. We're again
we're talking vomit and diarrhea here. Yeah. I mean it's
important that we're talking about prison scenarios because because this
is also a scenario where individuals are going to be
kind of desperate for any kind of sensory change. You know,
(24:10):
they want a different experience and the thing that they're
having every single day, and if the various other forms
of stimulation are withheld from them, then they may have
no other choice in their view, to tries things like nutmeg.
H So in many prisons to this day, it's still
it's difficult to find nutmeg in the kitchen because they're
just not gonna stock it because somebody's gonna end up
(24:31):
taking it. But again, it's it's just not going to
be a pleasant time. Um. There are also stories that
jazz musicians, particularly Charlie Parker, reportedly partook of nutmeg. Supposedly, um,
I mean supposedly nutmeg wasn't the only thing that Charlie
Parker took. But it's just it's again this this is
on no one knows for sure. Like I was reading
(24:52):
a um on one of our articles we're looking after this,
they were talking about it. It's kind of like a
mystery that nobody wants to talk about, like the the
jazz musicians the secret of jazz is nutmeg, which I
don't buy for a second, you know, Yeah, yeah, um.
I do think it's interesting that it really didn't even
become known in the Western world really until I think
(25:12):
that's sixties and one of the first people to ferret
it out was Dr Andrew Wild, who at the time
was submitting his thesis for honors in biology at Harvard University,
and he was he he wanted to really make an
inquiry into nutmeg as a narcotic and a hallucinogenic and uh,
he kind of sort of went through the whole thing.
And it's very interesting, but because before then, again people
(25:33):
didn't really think of it as having any sort of
hallucinogenic properties. But you probably know Dr Andrew Wild now
is someone who has been at the at the sort
of forefront of what you would say integrative medicine is
and really looking at these various natural um herbs implants
(25:54):
to try to integrate into medicine and get some sort
of benefit from Yeah, it's a it's a fascinating paper
a young while put together UM and it's also amusing
too because there's so many beatnecks in it. He keeps
talking about UM. One one particular that encounter that he
mentioned because he mentions talking to this guy and that
guy that you know it doesn't use any names, but
(26:16):
particularly is interested in in the At one point in
the article, he is interested in individuals who normally take marijuana,
but when they can't obtain marijuana, then supposedly they turned
a nutmeet, which, as we've already illustrated, clearly nutmeg is
not equatable with marijuana use. But but he was just
asking around. It's like, is this true? When you can't
(26:37):
have marijuana, do you have nutmeg? And there's one Harvard
graduate in particular that while talked to who answered him
by saying, oh, here, step over here to your spice cabinet.
And he opened the spice cabinet and he points at
all the various things that he is pretty much everything
in here, but msg if you take enough of it,
it's going to have some sort of weird effect on
your body. Uh, you know if you're palpations. Yeah, yeah,
(26:58):
it could be sentiment, it could be paprika. But if
you take enough of anything, and certainly a spice, because
the spice is gonna be a very potent substance that
it just we don't use in large quantities, but if
you consume a large quantity of you're gonna get some
sort of reaction, probably not a good one. Yeah. I
also like that paper too, because you can see all
(27:18):
of as handwritten molecular compounds. I'll have all of his
drawings very quaint. Uh. But yes, so it's I think
that kind of gives you an idea of of how again,
it's not this uh wonderful high that people are seeking.
There's probably a reason why it's not something that is
done in drug culture A lot right, not so great.
(27:41):
Back to Wing Curtis. In the article, he talks about
his nutmeg bender. Let me just read a little bit
of his own experience. He says that, both dubious and intrigued,
I grated up a whole nutmeg and part of another,
producing about one and a half table spoonful of powder.
I swallowed it in one small spoonful at a time,
chasing each gulp down with water. Um. He says. Consumed
in that quantity, nutmeg loses its fuel to high goodness
(28:04):
and tastes like turpentine. Perhaps my dosage was too low
or my nutmeg too desiccated. I did go through an
early giddey phase when everything seemed immensely amusing, including the
shingles on my neighbor's house, and I felt a slight
floating sensation when walking around the neighborhood. But mostly I
just felt out of sorts for a couple of days.
When I tried to write, my words sometimes became unmoored
(28:25):
from my thoughts. Though, to be fair, of this happens
even without the influence of nutmeg. You know, again, not
so not so exciting description here, a lot of trouble
going through trying to get some sort of high out
of that. Yeah, it's not you don't. You don't encounter
romantic descriptions of nutmeg us. It's just it's it's only
(28:46):
a failure or or a real failure. I mean. And
then there have been cases where individuals, um, you know,
I've been hospitalized or in some cases possibly died from
using it. The chances of dying from nutmeg poisoning or
are pretty slim, but it's it's always it's always possible,
and certainly it's also possible to for there to be
drug gut interactions as well. So, I mean, everybody's body
(29:08):
is different. It depends on you know, what's going on
inside you, what other substances you're taking, what your particular
health situation is. So I think what we're saying is kids,
just keep it on the top of your coffee. You
know what I'm saying, Just a couple of sprinkles will do. Yeah,
or apparently, as the Joy of Cooking says, use it
sparingly but often so it's probably a good good place
(29:30):
to leave it. But but still, I will admit, even
though even though I am I would, I will absolutely
never try and choke down a whole bunch of nutmeg
in the hopes of stuff weird happening and to me
and standing forty eight hours on a toilet, Um, the
next time I sprinkled nutmeg on it, I will I
will certainly have that in the back of my mind.
I'll feel a little cooler using my nutmeg because I'm like,
(29:51):
look at me, I'm like a I'm like a Dutch aristocrat. See,
I'll just think about the bathroom thing. My mind will
go straight to the gutter. All right, So there you go. Um.
That is actually a nice little precursor for a couple
of episodes that are coming out. To look for them,
we were going to talk more specifically about hallucinogen's shamans
all sorts of good stuff, um, in the various ways
(30:14):
that we tried to manipulate the mind. All right, Well,
on that note, let's call over the robit and look
at the listener mail. Here's one from our listener, Marcio.
Marcio writes sentences, Hi, Robert and Julie. I'm a listener
from Portugal who, for obvious reasons doesn't observe Thanksgiving, but
of course still listen to the Turkey episode. You may
(30:34):
recall the part about the origin of the bird's name
and how the British called everything Oriental Turkish, including something
that was merely traded by Eastern merchants. Interestingly enough, kind
of the same thing happened with the Portuguese in the
sixteenth century. Spanish America was properly referred to as Peru.
When the Spanish first brought that bird to Europe, we
called it Peru, and it's still that name. It still
(30:56):
has that name today. At least we got the continent right.
Thank you for the cast. I'm a fan. Have fun, Marcia,
so that's in it. Certainly that ties in nicely with
this episode in which we talked about international trade and
how it affects our understandings of various products. You know,
also on the Thanksgiving episode, we we ruminated in that
(31:17):
particular episode about the possibility of a killer turkey horror
movie and possible. Yes, and lo and behold it exists.
A number of you pointed out that there is a
movie by the name of Thanks Killing, Thanks Killing that
appears to to star a kind of skexy, light evil
turkey puppet that goes around killing people, and it's it's
(31:39):
currently the one Netflix streamings, which is which is pretty cool.
So yeah, it is out there. You should totally check
out the trailer at the very least. It's it's very
funny stuff. So there you have it. A little listener
mail there. If you would like to write in with
your thoughts on nutmeg, we would love to hear about them. Again,
do not actually try and take a bunch of nutmeg
and then expect that we're gonna read your thoughts about
(32:00):
it on on on the podcast Taking my Head now. Yeah,
absolutely not, but we would love I would particularly love
to hear any of you who are Dutch or who
have had a lot of Dutch cuisine. I'd love to
know about the nutmeg in that culinary condition, that kind
of thing. I would love to hear about anything else
not related that you may have to share that doesn't
involve spooning down that man. If you want to share
(32:20):
this kind of thing with us, you can find us
on Facebook and tumbler. If we're we are stufforable in
your mind on both of those, and you can also
find us on Twitter, where our handles blow the mind.
And you can always drop us a line at blow
the Mind at discovery dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
(32:42):
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