March 29, 2011 • 21 mins
Should extraterrestrials be converted to Catholicism, or are they somehow free from sin? In this episode, Julie and Robert contemplate the Vatican's current stance on the cosmos and what it means for the future of belief on planet Earth.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglass. You know, Joy,
there was a I think it was a mad magazine
from like ages back, like it was published before my birth,
and I ended up like finding it a stack of
(00:24):
of my dad's old magazines and stuff and um. And
there was one that depicted the this medieval space race
between you know, kind of like the Holy War between
the West and in the Middle East, except it was
the space race. And so you have a Catholic Church
blasting off into space on a rocket that was propelled Uh.
(00:47):
It didn't have you know, a rocket engine in the
lower portions of of the of the spaceship, but it
had all these monks and they were just like busy praying,
and it was propelled into orbit via contemptous Monday, uh,
contempt for the Earth, and that was how they would
achieve orbit. Yeah. But as it turns out that while
(01:07):
there is not necessarily a Catholic space program or a
or a Vatican space program per se, the the Vatican
and the the Catholic Church is very interested in the cosmos.
I mean, to a certain extent, they have been for
a long time, because I mean there was a time
back in the Middle Ages you had to study astronomy
(01:27):
in order to understand theology. The Catholic Church was interested
in calendar, so they're interested in the way the spheres
are moving. And there's just a rich history of the
two overlapping each other, at least until things become shaky, right, yes, yes,
And and of course that brings to mind Galileo, right,
and the whole heliocentric model which turned the Catholic Church
(01:50):
on its head back in the day. Going from the
idea that the the Earth was the center of the universe, too,
something else might be the center of the universe, namely
the Sun, and and that it's kind of like you
can keep keep telling me science about the second when
it starts interfering with the theology, then we're gonna have
to have a serious, frank discussion about why you're a
heretic and why you should agree with us on this
(02:11):
one right, right, because there's this idea right that humans
have sort of a birthright to the universe. And so
if you're going to tell me that Earth is not
the center of it all. Then who you know, who
is the center of the universe if it's not humans.
So that was like the main problem, right Yeah. Now
since that time that the theology has come around to
(02:31):
encompass this, this idea, but at the time that theology
was not going to shift. No, it took them three
hundred and fifty years to admit that Galileo was right,
And in two thousand and nine they recktoned a statue
to him. And I'm gonna bet I haven't seen the statue,
but I'm gonna bet it's not of him kneeling before
the tribunal, yeah, or broken by the inquisition, right right,
(02:54):
saying no, no, it was never mind, that was all
wrong Philip Glass. Today, I believe, Yeah, philk Class did
an opera about Galileo. Is there. Of course I have
not seen it, but my understanding is that it's told
in reverse, so it starts with a broken Galileo, you know,
with everything in its life and shambles, and then works backwards.
I love that guy, but every time I think of him,
(03:15):
I always think of that that sort of corresponding um
dance moves that tend to go along with any filk
class music, and it's always like people rolling back and
forth on a on a floor. Wos some interesting dance clubs.
Yeah you don't see that the role Yeah yeah, the
(03:36):
house remixes of philk class. Yeah. But so yeah, there's
there there. There's a whole hullablulu of heliocentrism, which mirrors
in a in a weird way, the search for extraterrestrial life, right,
because again it's furthering that idea of well, if it's
if it's if it's not us or you know, who
is it? Are there other people out there? This idea
(03:59):
that UM, this anthropomorphic idea of being questioned. Yeah, people
are gonna be like, hey, God created anim and Eve,
not kling Lower and Subican or something, you know, I mean,
I mean just the idea that if we were to
find alien like it, it throws a lot of things
into You have to reevaluate a lot of accepted theology
at the idea that UM accepted within the various churches
(04:22):
that that say that God created the humans in his image, Like,
then what does that mean of their aliens? What is
their role are they? Do they need to be saved?
Do they need to be converted? Or are they good,
what's the rules? So it's really fascinating that the Catholic
Church would involve itself so heavily as of late with
the last two years in the cosmos. Again, not so
(04:44):
much because of their past history. Um, you know, they're
very academic in terms of um their view on cosmology.
But the fact that they would even embrace the idea
of aliens existing, it's sort of shocking. Yeah, because it
is one of those things, Like I said, it would
just it would throw a wrench into Uh. I'm not
saying that, you know, theology would would have to shift
(05:05):
to it and belief would change, but it would cause
a lot of people to have to reevaluate how they
view the universe. So enter a man by the name
of Guy Consum, who who I Actually I get to
see him a couple of years back, became and and
I spoken a local college. He's a fascinating Guy's a
(05:27):
really interesting dude. He maintains the Vaticans meteorite collection, among
other things. Oh yeah, yeah. He has two degrees in
Earth and Planetary science from M I T. And he
works for the pope. So that's how he's sort of
bridging this whole uh, you know, Catholic Church and and
science movement as of late and uh, specifically he studies
the origins of asteroids, dwarf planets, and objects orbiting the
(05:50):
Sun beyond Neptune. And he entered the Jesuit order. And
this is what I thought was interesting too. He has
an interest in science because he was greatly influenced by
science fiction. Cool. Yeah, and he's a really cool beard too,
to say he has a magnificent beard. Yeah. I mean
(06:10):
he's just a very well spoken guy. Like you say, though,
I mean he's been he's been making the rounds recently.
He's not speaking not just at faith based colleges, but
also showing up on like the Colbert Report, even not
not exactly the most risk free interview environment. You know,
he's he's showing up the He just all over the
lecture circuit. No, but he's a savvy guy and he's
(06:32):
got a lot of very interesting things to say about
how the church is squaring um, you know, space exploration
and aliens because it's just the possible existence of aliens
with theology and uh, and and very upfront about to
say that, you know, the church getting it spectacularly wrong
about Galileo or or even you know, touching on issues
(06:52):
of of intelligent design and an evolution. Like he's not
going so far as to say, yeah, that you should
just be totally behind evolution, but he's he's you see
him really stomping on especially the American conservative branch of
intelligent design, which oh yeah, he calls it bad theology,
and he says that it's been hijacked by American creationists fundamentalists,
(07:15):
and that it's essentially turning Christianity into a pagan god
who's responsible for lightning and thunder rather than the Earth
being responsible for its atmosphere, which is like, whoa, yeah,
Like consider that this is coming from uh, someone in
the Catholic Church. But there is a really interesting quote
that I pulled in. This is from a psycom you
(07:36):
see Santa Cruz interview by alyssa Poem, and she asked him,
what's your advice for scientists believers who don't necessarily wear
a collar so you're you know, you believe in God,
but you're a scientist, And he said, there's nothing to
be gained by talking religion in the scientific context. It
doesn't belong there. I'd like to see more scientists who
are churchgoers talk about their science in their church to
(07:58):
their fellow parishioners. Love of them. Know that science isn't
the enemy. I think there's a great hunger for science
among everyone. It's a human desire to know how the
universe works. Also, you can't do science without admitting I
don't have all the answers. Unfortunately, that's never the way
science is communicated. Scientists like saying I've got the answers,
when in fact real science says no, I don't have
(08:18):
the answers. I'm still trying to find them. That would
lower the temperature of any discussion. So I thought, you
know what, that is a really interesting, measured way to
talk about that. You know, it's basically the idea that
that science is really important obviously and sets up to
it to answer some extremely important questions about life. But
maybe that that religion has has has an important role
(08:38):
in the ethical dimensions of life that are outside the
realm of science. Right. He's saying that, you know, in
terms of his interpretation of the Bible, he doesn't take
it literally. Um that there are these are wonderful stories
to glean lessons from. But and I think that's his
problem with the whole creationism thing is that there's a
(08:59):
lot of uh literal stuff going on there. But I
have thought about this guy that you know, he's he
is fascinating um to know more about. And in fact,
if you want to go to scom and see that
you see Santa Cruz interview by less A Pool, you
can find out a lot more about him. But I
sort of wondered, is this the guy who's driving uh
this sort of mission from the Catholic Church or is
(09:20):
this just you know, them being progressive, yeah, or is
this the progressive guy that has that really has that
again is really driving something in the church or is
this the progressive guy that they let off the leash
to sort of make good with the media. Right, because
you see some other other things that the churches is
doing recently that that that is it falls into similar ground.
(09:43):
For instance, the church recently backed an adult stem cell
research company called Neo Stem to the tune of about
a million dollars, which granted, that's kind of chump change
for the church, but still, uh, something is is volatile
as as stem cells, uh you know, and they're you know,
and they're not going to get behind anything but adults
stem cells at this point. But still they think at
(10:03):
least you know, through a few bucks behind the adult
stem cell research, which was which is which is interesting well,
and again that's the scientific research part of it, right,
so they are furthering that mission for science. They've also
hosted a conference between astronomerus, physicists, by and biologists to
discuss the existence of alien life and what effect it
(10:24):
would have on the Church and Christianity and astronomers. Father
Fuentes he said that the search for e T does
not conflict with our faith quote because we cannot put
creative limits on the freedom of God unquote. So again
this is some really interesting messaging coming out of Catholic
Church about this. Yeah. This this guy's the same the
(10:45):
same one who who said that the aliens might potentially
live in a sinless state, which I think I read
that where like I still have a big question mark
over my head about that. Yeah, well it does underline
an interesting idea. I mean, it gets into the idea
of what if we've we come across the alien life
and they're far better than us, They're superior to us there, technologically, morally, ethically,
(11:09):
way better than us. Then we wouldn't be able to,
you know, walk into the room and say hey, we
got some some pamphlets we want you to read, and
they're like, no, thank you, we're you know, we've involved
the on consciousness and less. Yeah, there's inner sinless by
the way you read our pamphlet. Um. Yeah, it's funny.
It's someone who posts the question about whether or not
Constant Manio would baptize and alien and he said, well,
(11:30):
of course if if they would like that. Um. But
then he went on to say that, you know, it's
it's it's probably not likely that we're going to find
this being and there's the question of it being intelligent
and us being able to communicate with it, and so
it's not really a practical question. Yeah, if you have,
it depends on who you ask about the whole, Like,
you know, what are what are the chances that there's
life and in in the in the universe beyond us,
(11:53):
and and then what are the chances that it's intelligent?
Then what are the chances that will encounter it. It
becomes a safer and safer bet that the church is
making here by talking about it at all, you know,
because it's like it's kind of Like, I can talk
all day about how great I'm going to be of
an alien lands in the office here at work, but
we both know it's not gonna happen. So I'm not
gonna have to you I can say, I can. I'll
(12:13):
bait cakes and give speeches all day, but I'm not
gonna have to learn any lines or bring any baking
stuff to like they're not going to have to commit
to baptizing aliens and really getting behind that in earnest right, Yeah,
it's yeah, So it's it's a safe bat. Yeah, that's
that's my read on it. Now. I know, I think
it's very interesting, and I think, you know, is this
are they ahead of the curve or you know, is
this a marketing stunt? Yeah? We we're making the comparison
(12:38):
yesterday to the episode of the Office, the American version
where everyone's afraid of age discrimination. So Creed, the the
older creepy dude on the show. Um, he shows up
to work with his hair dyed black and starts trying
to talk about things that are young and hip. So,
you know, the the cynical side of me reads a
lot of this and sees Creed with his obviously dyed
(13:00):
black hair where it's you know, it's like the old
church saying, hey, how about those space aliens. So so
what you're saying is that the church is trying to
appeal to a wider audience and is wearing skinny jeans
underneath their vestments. I think that's one view, that one
that one can take this one interpretation of what's going on.
Um I I'm I don't necessarily. I think that's there
(13:23):
are probably a lot of of of minds behind this movement,
and there's some people. I'm sure guy totally believes in
what he's he's putting out there. Oh no, I mean,
that's the interesting thing about this person is that he's
obviously he's a scientist, you know, through and through he
just I think he happens to wear the collar and
he's again he's trying to square that for himself, possibly
in for the Catholic Church and for our perception of that.
(13:46):
So there's no doubt I don't think that he's like
any sort of marketing machine. I think he's the real deal,
and that's why he's so fascinating. He's got some really
interesting insights into science and theology. Um. But yeah, I mean, yeah,
I guess. I guess we'll know on the more getting
side if that's really what they're pursuing. If the Pope,
you know, addresses an audience and starts dropping L O
L weaferences or um or like Creed comes out with
(14:09):
some blue hair, perhaps this presentation is brought to you
by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. That's hard to say, but
I think it's a fascinating proposition for where we are
right now, that the Catholic Church is looking at science
(14:31):
in this way and opening the discussion and asking people
to to consider their place in the world in the
in the context of um of life, life outside of
the earth. I'm trailing off a little bit on that
because I'm like, yeah, I don't want to get too philosophical,
but you know, I think you're picking up what I'm
(14:53):
putting down there. Uh. It makes me think of a
line a quote that I got from professor by the
name of Varadaja v Rahman. And he's the author of
Truth and Tension and science and religion and um and uh.
If I remember he's actually um uh Hindu um and
he has he has a lot of interesting ideas on
(15:13):
this because he he often puts out that there's not
as much there's not really a clash between science and Hinduism,
that the the the controversies between science and religion tend
to exist more in Western societies. And uh, and he
had this great did you tell me? He said, I
seriously doubt that the dialogue between religion and science will cease,
But I do believe that as a result of these exchanges,
(15:35):
religion is likely to become less irrational and some of
its expressions in some of its expressions. In fact, one
would hope that the greatest contribution science can make in
calming religion is to eradicate the many unpleasant, unhappy, and
in many cases destructive aspects of religious expression. So I
I personally find that really encouraging. I like this view
that that it's not a situation of science and religion
(15:58):
duking it out and just extre emails them. Yeah. Yeah,
that that these two things can can coexist in a
in a way that is not harmful to the culture
as a whole. Yeah. And I've always wondered why we've
had to set up this paradigm of the other, you know,
as humans, in order to think that we have to
exist the way we exist. Um, So I do think
(16:21):
it's interesting that that both sides could possibly come to
the table and for for the greater good of humanity.
I'm holding out for that. Yeah. And I like the
idea that finding alien life wouldn't just freak everyone out
and send everybody into a tizzy because I I don't
feel like my I mean, my world view would be
changed significantly if we if we found aliens. But you
(16:41):
know it's I don't I wouldn't jump off a building.
So do you think the aliens might be wearing the
funny hat? That's the question? Yeah, all right, do we
have any listener emails? We have some emails. UM, a
listener by the name of Mr Squirrel. Right, and you know,
you get to you get to choose your own name
on the internet, So go for it. Um says hi,
(17:04):
I love the squirrel well, and he says, Hi, I
love the podcast. I had a few quick additions to
your subliminal mentioning podcast. In particular, I'm fascinated fascinated by
the way ways in which casinos have used it to
keep their clients paying Um. And then he and Mr
Squirrel had the three examples knows no visible clocks anywhere
(17:24):
on the floor on the floor to cause people to
lose track of time, bright flashing lights and allowed sounds
to disorient and tantalize people with the chance of winning
an amaze like floor design so that people will walk
by many games on their way in and out. M
I'm seeing some similarities with casinos and workplaces a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
what do we have. We don't really have clocks around.
(17:47):
We have somewhat of amaze we do, but it doesn't
go through like a gift shop or anything. Well, you
haven't been to the gift shop. I haven't. Then where
where's the gift shop? Man? You haven't been. I don't
know that I can tell you. Okay, that's not a
janitorial closet. That's all I'm gonna say. Well cool, those
are Yeah, I mean casinos are are very interesting. Um.
(18:07):
We could probably do a whole podcast enters in ways
that that that they mess with people and ensnare them.
Oh yeah, And it wouldn't be fascinating to to run
an m R I on someone who's gambling. What it's
going on in that head? Yours is you're playing the
One Armed bandit? Um. Here we have another one from
a listener by the name of a friend reference, and
(18:29):
they're writing in response to the attack of the Creative
Brain podcast. Uh, let's say. I'm an artist, a visual artist.
So many times I have thought I'm crazy, and I've
gone on to accept that just because I'm an artist,
until you said that it could be possible that my
mind just gets overloaded with ideas. Um, I've I've accepted
my craziness and I know that I'm always thinking of
(18:49):
ideas NonStop. I can't help it. If someone says something
about I don't know a tree, I'll immediately picture trees
in my head. I'll draw them in my head a
variety of ways, and I'll automatically begin to brainstorm idea
after idea, like I'm watching it being created in my
head rather than contributing. I feel there are ideas in
my head that are originally mine, and I feel their
ideas in my head that I have received. I've always
(19:11):
felt like just a vessel. I know I am just
a vessel, and now thinking of it, it kind of
makes me think of another podcast of yours, as You've
got a genius. When you guys said that we are
just host to all of this bacteria. So is our
brain too, am I simply a transmitter equipped with the
dexterity and circumstances to receive, interpret, and relay creative information
through visual representation. So it's the crazy. My ability to
(19:34):
organize these ideas a mental stenographer is what I am
in great need up. Let me know if you come
across one. Thanks for your info. Again, another great email
with tons of insight, because we did. We talked about that.
We talked about the parallels between UM. You know, people
who have this ability to not filter UM out as
(19:57):
many ideas, right, And I believe this was the the
flow of neurons and and then there was the the
schizophrenic aspect. And that doesn't that's not saying that people
who share this similar um brain action are all crazy.
It just says that, you know, they've they've studied schizophrenics
and they've studied people who are highly creative and they
noticed that the same thing happens UM. So it's really
(20:20):
interesting to hear a firsthand acount about that. Yeah, just
an insight into the artistic mind and like what's going
on when you're creating things? So cool. Thanks for letting
us know about that. And so if you have any
interesting ideas you want to share about how casinos and
snare our mind, how the creative process works, or indeed,
if you have any thoughts on the whole um combination
(20:41):
of Church and cosmos, and in the Vatican's interest in
space and how that might relate to your own worldview,
then let us know. We're on Facebook and Twitter as
Blow the Mind and you can always drop us a
line at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.
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(21:03):
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Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglass. You know, Joy,
there was a I think it was a mad magazine
from like ages back, like it was published before my birth,
and I ended up like finding it a stack of
(00:24):
of my dad's old magazines and stuff and um. And
there was one that depicted the this medieval space race
between you know, kind of like the Holy War between
the West and in the Middle East, except it was
the space race. And so you have a Catholic Church
blasting off into space on a rocket that was propelled Uh.
(00:47):
It didn't have you know, a rocket engine in the
lower portions of of the of the spaceship, but it
had all these monks and they were just like busy praying,
and it was propelled into orbit via contemptous Monday, uh,
contempt for the Earth, and that was how they would
achieve orbit. Yeah. But as it turns out that while
(01:07):
there is not necessarily a Catholic space program or a
or a Vatican space program per se, the the Vatican
and the the Catholic Church is very interested in the cosmos.
I mean, to a certain extent, they have been for
a long time, because I mean there was a time
back in the Middle Ages you had to study astronomy
(01:27):
in order to understand theology. The Catholic Church was interested
in calendar, so they're interested in the way the spheres
are moving. And there's just a rich history of the
two overlapping each other, at least until things become shaky, right, yes, yes,
And and of course that brings to mind Galileo, right,
and the whole heliocentric model which turned the Catholic Church
(01:50):
on its head back in the day. Going from the
idea that the the Earth was the center of the universe, too,
something else might be the center of the universe, namely
the Sun, and and that it's kind of like you
can keep keep telling me science about the second when
it starts interfering with the theology, then we're gonna have
to have a serious, frank discussion about why you're a
heretic and why you should agree with us on this
(02:11):
one right, right, because there's this idea right that humans
have sort of a birthright to the universe. And so
if you're going to tell me that Earth is not
the center of it all. Then who you know, who
is the center of the universe if it's not humans.
So that was like the main problem, right Yeah. Now
since that time that the theology has come around to
(02:31):
encompass this, this idea, but at the time that theology
was not going to shift. No, it took them three
hundred and fifty years to admit that Galileo was right,
And in two thousand and nine they recktoned a statue
to him. And I'm gonna bet I haven't seen the statue,
but I'm gonna bet it's not of him kneeling before
the tribunal, yeah, or broken by the inquisition, right right,
(02:54):
saying no, no, it was never mind, that was all
wrong Philip Glass. Today, I believe, Yeah, philk Class did
an opera about Galileo. Is there. Of course I have
not seen it, but my understanding is that it's told
in reverse, so it starts with a broken Galileo, you know,
with everything in its life and shambles, and then works backwards.
I love that guy, but every time I think of him,
(03:15):
I always think of that that sort of corresponding um
dance moves that tend to go along with any filk
class music, and it's always like people rolling back and
forth on a on a floor. Wos some interesting dance clubs.
Yeah you don't see that the role Yeah yeah, the
(03:36):
house remixes of philk class. Yeah. But so yeah, there's
there there. There's a whole hullablulu of heliocentrism, which mirrors
in a in a weird way, the search for extraterrestrial life, right,
because again it's furthering that idea of well, if it's
if it's if it's not us or you know, who
is it? Are there other people out there? This idea
(03:59):
that UM, this anthropomorphic idea of being questioned. Yeah, people
are gonna be like, hey, God created anim and Eve,
not kling Lower and Subican or something, you know, I mean,
I mean just the idea that if we were to
find alien like it, it throws a lot of things
into You have to reevaluate a lot of accepted theology
at the idea that UM accepted within the various churches
(04:22):
that that say that God created the humans in his image, Like,
then what does that mean of their aliens? What is
their role are they? Do they need to be saved?
Do they need to be converted? Or are they good,
what's the rules? So it's really fascinating that the Catholic
Church would involve itself so heavily as of late with
the last two years in the cosmos. Again, not so
(04:44):
much because of their past history. Um, you know, they're
very academic in terms of um their view on cosmology.
But the fact that they would even embrace the idea
of aliens existing, it's sort of shocking. Yeah, because it
is one of those things, Like I said, it would
just it would throw a wrench into Uh. I'm not
saying that, you know, theology would would have to shift
(05:05):
to it and belief would change, but it would cause
a lot of people to have to reevaluate how they
view the universe. So enter a man by the name
of Guy Consum, who who I Actually I get to
see him a couple of years back, became and and
I spoken a local college. He's a fascinating Guy's a
(05:27):
really interesting dude. He maintains the Vaticans meteorite collection, among
other things. Oh yeah, yeah. He has two degrees in
Earth and Planetary science from M I T. And he
works for the pope. So that's how he's sort of
bridging this whole uh, you know, Catholic Church and and
science movement as of late and uh, specifically he studies
the origins of asteroids, dwarf planets, and objects orbiting the
(05:50):
Sun beyond Neptune. And he entered the Jesuit order. And
this is what I thought was interesting too. He has
an interest in science because he was greatly influenced by
science fiction. Cool. Yeah, and he's a really cool beard too,
to say he has a magnificent beard. Yeah. I mean
(06:10):
he's just a very well spoken guy. Like you say, though,
I mean he's been he's been making the rounds recently.
He's not speaking not just at faith based colleges, but
also showing up on like the Colbert Report, even not
not exactly the most risk free interview environment. You know,
he's he's showing up the He just all over the
lecture circuit. No, but he's a savvy guy and he's
(06:32):
got a lot of very interesting things to say about
how the church is squaring um, you know, space exploration
and aliens because it's just the possible existence of aliens
with theology and uh, and and very upfront about to
say that, you know, the church getting it spectacularly wrong
about Galileo or or even you know, touching on issues
(06:52):
of of intelligent design and an evolution. Like he's not
going so far as to say, yeah, that you should
just be totally behind evolution, but he's he's you see
him really stomping on especially the American conservative branch of
intelligent design, which oh yeah, he calls it bad theology,
and he says that it's been hijacked by American creationists fundamentalists,
(07:15):
and that it's essentially turning Christianity into a pagan god
who's responsible for lightning and thunder rather than the Earth
being responsible for its atmosphere, which is like, whoa, yeah,
Like consider that this is coming from uh, someone in
the Catholic Church. But there is a really interesting quote
that I pulled in. This is from a psycom you
(07:36):
see Santa Cruz interview by alyssa Poem, and she asked him,
what's your advice for scientists believers who don't necessarily wear
a collar so you're you know, you believe in God,
but you're a scientist, And he said, there's nothing to
be gained by talking religion in the scientific context. It
doesn't belong there. I'd like to see more scientists who
are churchgoers talk about their science in their church to
(07:58):
their fellow parishioners. Love of them. Know that science isn't
the enemy. I think there's a great hunger for science
among everyone. It's a human desire to know how the
universe works. Also, you can't do science without admitting I
don't have all the answers. Unfortunately, that's never the way
science is communicated. Scientists like saying I've got the answers,
when in fact real science says no, I don't have
(08:18):
the answers. I'm still trying to find them. That would
lower the temperature of any discussion. So I thought, you
know what, that is a really interesting, measured way to
talk about that. You know, it's basically the idea that
that science is really important obviously and sets up to
it to answer some extremely important questions about life. But
maybe that that religion has has has an important role
(08:38):
in the ethical dimensions of life that are outside the
realm of science. Right. He's saying that, you know, in
terms of his interpretation of the Bible, he doesn't take
it literally. Um that there are these are wonderful stories
to glean lessons from. But and I think that's his
problem with the whole creationism thing is that there's a
(08:59):
lot of uh literal stuff going on there. But I
have thought about this guy that you know, he's he
is fascinating um to know more about. And in fact,
if you want to go to scom and see that
you see Santa Cruz interview by less A Pool, you
can find out a lot more about him. But I
sort of wondered, is this the guy who's driving uh
this sort of mission from the Catholic Church or is
(09:20):
this just you know, them being progressive, yeah, or is
this the progressive guy that has that really has that
again is really driving something in the church or is
this the progressive guy that they let off the leash
to sort of make good with the media. Right, because
you see some other other things that the churches is
doing recently that that that is it falls into similar ground.
(09:43):
For instance, the church recently backed an adult stem cell
research company called Neo Stem to the tune of about
a million dollars, which granted, that's kind of chump change
for the church, but still, uh, something is is volatile
as as stem cells, uh you know, and they're you know,
and they're not going to get behind anything but adults
stem cells at this point. But still they think at
(10:03):
least you know, through a few bucks behind the adult
stem cell research, which was which is which is interesting well,
and again that's the scientific research part of it, right,
so they are furthering that mission for science. They've also
hosted a conference between astronomerus, physicists, by and biologists to
discuss the existence of alien life and what effect it
(10:24):
would have on the Church and Christianity and astronomers. Father
Fuentes he said that the search for e T does
not conflict with our faith quote because we cannot put
creative limits on the freedom of God unquote. So again
this is some really interesting messaging coming out of Catholic
Church about this. Yeah. This this guy's the same the
(10:45):
same one who who said that the aliens might potentially
live in a sinless state, which I think I read
that where like I still have a big question mark
over my head about that. Yeah, well it does underline
an interesting idea. I mean, it gets into the idea
of what if we've we come across the alien life
and they're far better than us, They're superior to us there, technologically, morally, ethically,
(11:09):
way better than us. Then we wouldn't be able to,
you know, walk into the room and say hey, we
got some some pamphlets we want you to read, and
they're like, no, thank you, we're you know, we've involved
the on consciousness and less. Yeah, there's inner sinless by
the way you read our pamphlet. Um. Yeah, it's funny.
It's someone who posts the question about whether or not
Constant Manio would baptize and alien and he said, well,
(11:30):
of course if if they would like that. Um. But
then he went on to say that, you know, it's
it's it's probably not likely that we're going to find
this being and there's the question of it being intelligent
and us being able to communicate with it, and so
it's not really a practical question. Yeah, if you have,
it depends on who you ask about the whole, Like,
you know, what are what are the chances that there's
life and in in the in the universe beyond us,
(11:53):
and and then what are the chances that it's intelligent?
Then what are the chances that will encounter it. It
becomes a safer and safer bet that the church is
making here by talking about it at all, you know,
because it's like it's kind of Like, I can talk
all day about how great I'm going to be of
an alien lands in the office here at work, but
we both know it's not gonna happen. So I'm not
gonna have to you I can say, I can. I'll
(12:13):
bait cakes and give speeches all day, but I'm not
gonna have to learn any lines or bring any baking
stuff to like they're not going to have to commit
to baptizing aliens and really getting behind that in earnest right, Yeah,
it's yeah, So it's it's a safe bat. Yeah, that's
that's my read on it. Now. I know, I think
it's very interesting, and I think, you know, is this
are they ahead of the curve or you know, is
this a marketing stunt? Yeah? We we're making the comparison
(12:38):
yesterday to the episode of the Office, the American version
where everyone's afraid of age discrimination. So Creed, the the
older creepy dude on the show. Um, he shows up
to work with his hair dyed black and starts trying
to talk about things that are young and hip. So,
you know, the the cynical side of me reads a
lot of this and sees Creed with his obviously dyed
(13:00):
black hair where it's you know, it's like the old
church saying, hey, how about those space aliens. So so
what you're saying is that the church is trying to
appeal to a wider audience and is wearing skinny jeans
underneath their vestments. I think that's one view, that one
that one can take this one interpretation of what's going on.
Um I I'm I don't necessarily. I think that's there
(13:23):
are probably a lot of of of minds behind this movement,
and there's some people. I'm sure guy totally believes in
what he's he's putting out there. Oh no, I mean,
that's the interesting thing about this person is that he's
obviously he's a scientist, you know, through and through he
just I think he happens to wear the collar and
he's again he's trying to square that for himself, possibly
in for the Catholic Church and for our perception of that.
(13:46):
So there's no doubt I don't think that he's like
any sort of marketing machine. I think he's the real deal,
and that's why he's so fascinating. He's got some really
interesting insights into science and theology. Um. But yeah, I mean, yeah,
I guess. I guess we'll know on the more getting
side if that's really what they're pursuing. If the Pope,
you know, addresses an audience and starts dropping L O
L weaferences or um or like Creed comes out with
(14:09):
some blue hair, perhaps this presentation is brought to you
by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. That's hard to say, but
I think it's a fascinating proposition for where we are
right now, that the Catholic Church is looking at science
(14:31):
in this way and opening the discussion and asking people
to to consider their place in the world in the
in the context of um of life, life outside of
the earth. I'm trailing off a little bit on that
because I'm like, yeah, I don't want to get too philosophical,
but you know, I think you're picking up what I'm
(14:53):
putting down there. Uh. It makes me think of a
line a quote that I got from professor by the
name of Varadaja v Rahman. And he's the author of
Truth and Tension and science and religion and um and uh.
If I remember he's actually um uh Hindu um and
he has he has a lot of interesting ideas on
(15:13):
this because he he often puts out that there's not
as much there's not really a clash between science and Hinduism,
that the the the controversies between science and religion tend
to exist more in Western societies. And uh, and he
had this great did you tell me? He said, I
seriously doubt that the dialogue between religion and science will cease,
But I do believe that as a result of these exchanges,
(15:35):
religion is likely to become less irrational and some of
its expressions in some of its expressions. In fact, one
would hope that the greatest contribution science can make in
calming religion is to eradicate the many unpleasant, unhappy, and
in many cases destructive aspects of religious expression. So I
I personally find that really encouraging. I like this view
that that it's not a situation of science and religion
(15:58):
duking it out and just extre emails them. Yeah. Yeah,
that that these two things can can coexist in a
in a way that is not harmful to the culture
as a whole. Yeah. And I've always wondered why we've
had to set up this paradigm of the other, you know,
as humans, in order to think that we have to
exist the way we exist. Um, So I do think
(16:21):
it's interesting that that both sides could possibly come to
the table and for for the greater good of humanity.
I'm holding out for that. Yeah. And I like the
idea that finding alien life wouldn't just freak everyone out
and send everybody into a tizzy because I I don't
feel like my I mean, my world view would be
changed significantly if we if we found aliens. But you
(16:41):
know it's I don't I wouldn't jump off a building.
So do you think the aliens might be wearing the
funny hat? That's the question? Yeah, all right, do we
have any listener emails? We have some emails. UM, a
listener by the name of Mr Squirrel. Right, and you know,
you get to you get to choose your own name
on the internet, So go for it. Um says hi,
(17:04):
I love the squirrel well, and he says, Hi, I
love the podcast. I had a few quick additions to
your subliminal mentioning podcast. In particular, I'm fascinated fascinated by
the way ways in which casinos have used it to
keep their clients paying Um. And then he and Mr
Squirrel had the three examples knows no visible clocks anywhere
(17:24):
on the floor on the floor to cause people to
lose track of time, bright flashing lights and allowed sounds
to disorient and tantalize people with the chance of winning
an amaze like floor design so that people will walk
by many games on their way in and out. M
I'm seeing some similarities with casinos and workplaces a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
what do we have. We don't really have clocks around.
(17:47):
We have somewhat of amaze we do, but it doesn't
go through like a gift shop or anything. Well, you
haven't been to the gift shop. I haven't. Then where
where's the gift shop? Man? You haven't been. I don't
know that I can tell you. Okay, that's not a
janitorial closet. That's all I'm gonna say. Well cool, those
are Yeah, I mean casinos are are very interesting. Um.
(18:07):
We could probably do a whole podcast enters in ways
that that that they mess with people and ensnare them.
Oh yeah, And it wouldn't be fascinating to to run
an m R I on someone who's gambling. What it's
going on in that head? Yours is you're playing the
One Armed bandit? Um. Here we have another one from
a listener by the name of a friend reference, and
(18:29):
they're writing in response to the attack of the Creative
Brain podcast. Uh, let's say. I'm an artist, a visual artist.
So many times I have thought I'm crazy, and I've
gone on to accept that just because I'm an artist,
until you said that it could be possible that my
mind just gets overloaded with ideas. Um, I've I've accepted
my craziness and I know that I'm always thinking of
(18:49):
ideas NonStop. I can't help it. If someone says something
about I don't know a tree, I'll immediately picture trees
in my head. I'll draw them in my head a
variety of ways, and I'll automatically begin to brainstorm idea
after idea, like I'm watching it being created in my
head rather than contributing. I feel there are ideas in
my head that are originally mine, and I feel their
ideas in my head that I have received. I've always
(19:11):
felt like just a vessel. I know I am just
a vessel, and now thinking of it, it kind of
makes me think of another podcast of yours, as You've
got a genius. When you guys said that we are
just host to all of this bacteria. So is our
brain too, am I simply a transmitter equipped with the
dexterity and circumstances to receive, interpret, and relay creative information
through visual representation. So it's the crazy. My ability to
(19:34):
organize these ideas a mental stenographer is what I am
in great need up. Let me know if you come
across one. Thanks for your info. Again, another great email
with tons of insight, because we did. We talked about that.
We talked about the parallels between UM. You know, people
who have this ability to not filter UM out as
(19:57):
many ideas, right, And I believe this was the the
flow of neurons and and then there was the the
schizophrenic aspect. And that doesn't that's not saying that people
who share this similar um brain action are all crazy.
It just says that, you know, they've they've studied schizophrenics
and they've studied people who are highly creative and they
noticed that the same thing happens UM. So it's really
(20:20):
interesting to hear a firsthand acount about that. Yeah, just
an insight into the artistic mind and like what's going
on when you're creating things? So cool. Thanks for letting
us know about that. And so if you have any
interesting ideas you want to share about how casinos and
snare our mind, how the creative process works, or indeed,
if you have any thoughts on the whole um combination
(20:41):
of Church and cosmos, and in the Vatican's interest in
space and how that might relate to your own worldview,
then let us know. We're on Facebook and Twitter as
Blow the Mind and you can always drop us a
line at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.
For more on this and thousands of our topics, visit
how stuff works dot com. To learn more about the podcast,
(21:03):
click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner
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