Weirdhouse Cinema: Fruit of Paradise

It's time for a little arthouse Adam and Eve! In this episode of Weirdhouse Cinema, Rob and Joe discuss the 1970 experimental Czech film "Fruit of Paradise.”

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My
Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This
is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. And on
today's episode we're going to be talking about Fruit of Paradise,

(00:23):
what I would characterize as a biblical surrealist comedy drama
film made in the late sixties by the Check new
wave of director Vera Chitoalova. Now I'm going to go
ahead and apologize to Check speakers if I'm not saying
her name the way you would. I searched all over
and unfortunately just ended up hearing people say it like
seven different ways. So Chittollova's my best shot. That's what

(00:46):
I'm gonna say. And I think this movie is going
to be a little bit different than the kinds of
films we usually talk about on here for for a
number of reasons. So this movie Fruit of Paradise is
a lot of things at once. First of all, it is,
in its context, a Check film made against the backdrop
of the nineteen sixty eight Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia,

(01:10):
and Tittalova herself has said that this film can be
interpreted through the lens of that invasion. Uh. And I
think also the consequent clamped down on freedoms, including free
expression of artists and filmmakers. But if you're looking for
like direct, heavy handed political allegory where it's like odd,
you know this this one here is the is the

(01:31):
premier of the Soviet Union, and this one here is
what it doesn't really have that, you're not going to
find it because from scene to scene, I would say
that the main characteristic of Fruit of Paradise is the
wandering and humorous exploration of an unconstrained mind, sort of
hopping from one strange image and situation to another. Yeah,

(01:52):
I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Uh. And
at the same time, despite having those characteristics, this movie
also does have a thematic frame, which is that it
is in some sense a very loose retelling of the
Garden of Eden story from the Book of Genesis, except
for most of the movie, after an amazing opening sequence
that's a little more like a psychedelic direct retelling of

(02:15):
the Garden of Eden story. For most of the runtime,
Adam and Eve are represented by Josef and Ava to
modern people wearing modern clothes, and the Garden of Eden
is represented as a central European health spa where couples
chase balloons on the sandy beach of a rock quarry. Uh.
And then also the snake or the devil they remember.

(02:36):
In the actual biblical narrative, it never says the snake
is a devil of any kind. He's just a snake.
But here I think it has both valances. Here, the
snake or the devil is Robert, a clumsy, awkward, frankly
almost adorable gentleman with a red beard, wearing a red
suit who rides a bicycle, falls over a lot, and
is probably a serial killer who murders women, and he

(02:59):
really loves rolling a big rock through the bog. He
has a strong doctor who character vibe to him. I
would say he has that kind of energy to him,
not saying necessarily a doctor a doctor himself, but I
could see him being the Master or something. Okay, I
don't think I'm familiar with the Master. I was going

(03:20):
to say his energy kind of reminds me of the
actor who they got to play Microft Holmes in the
BBC Sherlock. Yes, smart, gaddish. I think it's a good comparison.
By the way, a lot of great actors have played
microft homes over the years. I was just glancing. Of
course you have Charles Gray, but also like Peter Cushing, Um,
you have Resa Fauns. I mean, it's a whole list

(03:41):
of wonderful actors, but it's definitely a type. There's a
type of energy. Also, another thing that distinguishes this movie
is that while we've done a lot of really strange
films on Weird House Cinema before, I'm pretty sure this
is our first completely non narrative film, meaning it only
really has a story in the loosest possible sense. Uh.

(04:03):
And the real organizing principle here is not plot. I
would say the theme, Like the movie is made out
of a series of weird impressionistic vignettes and images that
are chained together by associations. So you might have a
clipping herbs in the garden of Eden, and then the
devil almost peas on her, and then she's trying to
bury some carrots in the sand, and then the sand

(04:26):
kind of takes over and the health spa ensemble is
now doing a bizarre balloon volleyball ballet in the sand
at a rock quarry. By the way, not on a
like natural beach, um, And so it goes from thing
to things like that. And personally I loved this movie.
But fair warning that if you've never watched a feature

(04:46):
length non narrative film before, it's a different kind of
experience and one that really shows you the power of
narrative storytelling, like how a conventional plot really helps keep
your attention effortlessly while effortful attention would be requ aired
in its absence. Uh. And Chittelovah did make more conventionally
narrative driven films at different parts of her career, especially
later in her career. In fact, she did a really

(05:08):
odd looking uh sci fi horror movie in the late
eighties that I may want to come back to at
some point. But anyway, even if the idea of a
feature length non narrative film isn't usually your cup of tea,
I think it's worth giving Fruit of Paradise a chance.
It is an absolutely bizarre, funny, delightful and thoughtful work
of art. I think narrative in a film it's often like, um,

(05:32):
it's like sweetener in a drink. You can have too
much of it, uh, and you can think you have
too much of it sometimes, But then every now and
then a film comes along to remind you the purely
dry experience, um is a little different and perhaps not
for for all tastes, certainly. UM. So, yeah, this is
an interesting film to to talk about because it definitely

(05:55):
has its has it's weird. Uh, it's weirdness to it,
and I love things about it. Um. But yeah, when
you start looking at experimental art films, uh, you know
that those are dangerous words. Experimental art film is dangerous
as co starring George Eastman or something to that effect,
because there are plenty of experimental art films out there

(06:15):
that can be a chore to get through, uh if
you're not in the right mindset. Uh. Some are pretty
scandalous as well. And today's film certainly was considered a
little bit too much by the Czechosloakian authorities of the time. Yeah, apparently,
uh Tolova could not get films made for for years
after doing this. The Soviet censors were not a fan.

(06:38):
It's it's interesting considered. One of the things I'll come
back to later is that in other parts of the
world and in other decades, UH censors were far more
forgiving conser if a film had Adam and even it. Uh.
You know they're like, oh, it's based on the Bible.
Well then yes, then this is this is okay, this
is your erotic statement can can exist on the screen

(07:00):
because it is is biblically based. Uh that appeared that
obviously didn't fly in Czechoslovakia. Uh in what was this
nineteen Well, I think that might have been when it
was released in the I think this was made in
the late sixties. Late sixties, Czechoslovakia not ready for the
surrealist m uh feminist take on Adam and Eve. Yeah.

(07:23):
In fact, um, I was watching part of an interview
with Titolova where she was talking about the making of
Fruit of Paradise, and so I think they were at
least shooting part of it during the the invasion in
nineteen sixty eight, at least according to this story, if
I'm understanding it right, Because she's talking about how they
were shooting parts of the movie in a sandstone quarry. Um,

(07:46):
And she said, you know, they were shooting it sort
of on the sly because she says, quote, in the
meantime the occupation had started, but the place where they
were shooting was quote outside the turmoil. I happened to
be pregnant at the time. I learned about the occupation
in maternal home, and at night, when I was breastfeeding
my child, I heard the bombardiers. It was very early

(08:07):
morning when the air fighters came into Prague. After that
we were afraid we wouldn't be able to get out
of the city. It was quite a risky trip we
were driving against those tanks. Yeah. Yeah, obviously, I always
have to to take into account the time period in
the world out of which an environment out of which
a film emerges. So yeah, there's some some fascinating backstory
for for this one. Now, before we go any any

(08:30):
further here, you might be wondering, well, where can I
watch this film? Uh, perhaps you want to see Fruit
of Paradise as well. Well, it is available on DVD,
but you can also stream it on Criterion Channel. As
I believe I've said before, there's a lot of weird
and wonderful stuff on Criterion Channel. So if you want
to watch the Three Colors trilogy, if you want to
catch up on the works of the Karakasawa, Uh, done obviously.

(08:52):
But you can also watch Elliott Gould in the boxing
kangaroo movie in which the kangaroo is a human in
a kind of uncanny kangaro root costume Matilda. You can
watch a bunch of Godzilla films, you can watch Fiend
without a Face, you can watch you can watch Eyes
without a face, and much much more. So it's well
worth that two week trial window no matter what you're

(09:12):
you're looking for. Actually, it also has multiple films of
very Chidlova, so I may end up watching more, including
that that sci fi horror one from the eighties. Are
you talking about Wolf's Hole? Yes, that one? That one
looks very interesting. Yeah, I'd love to see, you know,
what she does when she has the structure of genre
to work with, because you know, when I think about

(09:34):
the art films that i've that I like but also
something I don't like, you know, there's generally some sort
of trappings of genre there to give it, to help
give it that structure, And this one has, you know,
the mythic structure of the myth of Adam and Eve. Certainly,
um and I can't imagine you know that this film
without it. I mean that that's kind of its guiding framework. Uh.

(09:56):
But yeah, I'd love to see what she does with
a with a kind of um rural camping snow horror movie.
Warning A sort of vague spoilers here, but I think,
as best I understand, Wolves Hole is sort of about
like aliens who kidnap a bunch of children for like
a for a mountain a winter a winter mountain camp,

(10:19):
and then try to make them turn on each other.
But it's maybe about the children discovering how to work
together against their alien captors. Well, that sounds good. I
like that. All right, Well, let's come back to Fruit
of Paradise. Though um elevator pitch for this, I would
I would summarize that, especially the middle portions of the
film by saying, sometimes you chase the devil, and sometimes

(10:39):
the devil chases you. Yeah, And sometimes you want to
kill the devil, and sometimes the devil's gonna kill you,
and sometimes the devil isn't going to kill you. And
sometimes you're in love with the devil, yes, And sometimes
the devil p's in your garden. That's true, that's true.
All right, Well, let's have some some audio from this.
I believe we have some trailer audio. H m hm,

(11:08):
that is said, m h yeah. All right, Well, let's

(11:42):
talk about the people and we we've already talked to
You've already talked a good bit about Vera Chitalova here
the director. Also she's credited with writer Dialogue. She lived
through Check film director and writer of note, who often
ran a file of state. Since there's her nineteen sixty
six surrealist comedy Daisies was banned and at one point, yeah,

(12:04):
she was banned herself from making films. Other films of
note include comedy The Inheritance of Uh and I'm not
going to say the full title here, and he's the
English one, but it's like f off guys, go odd
dead Day. I think it's good day, good Day. Okay,
it's all run together. These are like it's the f

(12:24):
and then off guys, good day anyway, surrealist comedy I'm
to Understand. And The Seven Wolves Whole, which we already
talked about, which is a psychological horror movie that or
perhaps an alien film. I don't know. We haven't seen
it yet, but it seems like it's very well regarded.
I was reading getting some biographical details from her obituary

(12:47):
in the New York Times by Margolite Fox, and so
Chittilova was born in nineteen twenty nine in Ostrova, now
part of the Czech Republic. UH. Czechis Floki when she
lived there, and she went to university where she originally
studied philosophy and apparently architecture UH, and then after that
worked a interesting assortment of jobs. She was quote a

(13:11):
technical draftsman, a photo retoucher, a fashion model, and finally
quote clapper girl at the Czech National Film Studio. I
think clapper girl refers to somebody who manages the film slates,
you know, the slates that used to uh designate the
beginning of each shot. But I read that she also
just did odd jobs around the studio as well. UH.

(13:33):
And it was apparently while managing slates at the National
Film Studio that she became more interested in filmmaking and
eventually went to film school at the Academy in Prague,
where she was the only woman in her class. Chitalova's
early career is often grouped with the movement known as
the Check New Wave, which is a term used for

(13:55):
a a style of boundary pushing filmmakers in Check Slovakia
in the nineteen sixties, UH characterized I think just by
defiance of pre existing film conventions and kind of dissident
attitude and personal freedom. So this might include more sort
of casual, mundane, down to earth film subjects that were

(14:17):
less the sort of lofty, pretentious films of the past.
Or it might include totally avant garde films, avant garde techniques,
nonlinear narratives, surrealism, absurdism, usually dissident politics, and satirical or
dark comedy. And I think I would say the comedy
is one of the most interesting elements to me because
one of the things about Fruit of Paradise is that

(14:39):
it's I would not say it's overtly a comedic film,
at least not most of the time, because it's not
packed with like jokes, but almost every scene is sort
of humorous in some way. It's kind of like happening
with a with a strange edge of irony, and and
you can tell that the actors are like almost always
about to break into laughter. I would say it definitely

(15:02):
creates an air of levity that that that helps with
with this film, because to come back to the to
the Spirit's analogy, it's um it's like this cocktail has
no sweetener in it. It's it's more like, you know,
it's the straight art, but there is a there is
an umbrella put in it. There's a there's a nice
garnish to it, and that is the comedy that provides

(15:22):
a sense of levity. Uh and uh and I think
and that that is something I really like about it.
Like if this, if this had been like an ultra
serious film, I I mean it just it would it
would have been an entirely different film. I don't know
if it would have been anywhere nearly as enjoyable. I
would say, actually, the tone is exactly the opposite of

(15:43):
what you would expect if somebody told you it is
an avant garde retelling of the Adam and Eve story,
So you'd think, okay, serious, heavy handed art film. But no, instead,
this is like it's it's such a feeling of um,
of amusement and lightness and freedom. Yeah, yeah, it's Uh.

(16:03):
It also doesn't have that that crushing feel like you know,
you read the the account of Adam and Eve. It um,
it's it's kind of a downer. It's about the fall
of man and and it has you know, all of
the it also has all these other connotations of you know,
they make you question the nature of God, and uh,
you know the overtly um you know, anti feminine um

(16:26):
attributes to the tale as well. Uh you know, it's
it's Eve's fault for listening to a snake and and
uh and and eating an apple and so forth. Uh So, yeah,
it's not the kind of thing that you you might
instantly think like this, this will be a nice light
feminist art film. Yeah. And I think that spirit of
freedom works really well with the Adam and Eve subject
matter in multiple ways. So in one sense it comes

(16:48):
through in that sense of irony that we have infusing
every scene. But the other thing is about the like
symbolic ambivalence of the story, because there are multiple things
about the Adam and Eve story that you can take
in diametrically opposed uh meanings. So like what is the
what what is the role of the snake. You can
look at the story in one way where the snake

(17:09):
is the corruptor, the corruptor who you know, who gets
them kicked out of the garden. But the other way
of looking at it is that the snake is the
prometheus figure. The snake is the one who tells them
the truth that they can eat of the tree and
it will not kill them to eat of it. Uh.
And that they have been they have been living a
lie inside the garden. And I would say both readings
of the story I think are found in this film. Now.

(17:40):
Fruit of Paradise is not Chiallova's most famous film. I
would say her most famous easily is a nineteen sixty
six surrealist comedy she made called Daisies, which is about
two girls who are both named Marie. They are Marie
one and Marie too, who essentially decide that the world
is spoiled and wicked, and so they make a conscious

(18:02):
decision to become spoiled and wicked in return. And from
here they engage in a string of bizarre, high energy,
surreal and decadent acts. Some reviewers have characterized these as pranks.
I think that's true for some things they do in
the movie, but it doesn't really capture other things like
So this does include uh, like like pranking lecherous older men,

(18:25):
but it also includes things like running around trying to
snip each other's arms off with scissors, I think, and
to some extent succeeding with the help of film editing
techniques that move their arms around on the screen, or
dancing around on the top of banquet tables, like stomping
high heels on what British film critic Mark Kermode characterized
as phallic foods. Take that patriarchy. Chitellova herself seems to

(18:50):
be and I totally understand this from artists all the time,
she seems to have resisted attempts to characterize her work
with a any particular like stamp of ideology or artistic style.
She she tended, you know, so like I don't want
labels that kind of thing. Though her movies have been
characterized by others as feminist, as individualist, as anarchist or

(19:13):
anti authoritarian, as socialist, as manic or absurdist, I think
you can find elements of all of that in there. Yeah, absolutely,
especially you know, the manic vibe is very present. Uh,
definitely definitely a feminist take on the Adam and Eve.
And I think this is this is something that I
really ended up ruminating moron when I looked at some

(19:35):
of the other Adam and Eve movies that have come
out over the years. And I'm gonna get to those
later in the episode, but almost all of them one
thing that I found in common is you would have
pretty much a name actor like a pretty boy or
a muscle boy playing Adam. But then Eve was very
often played by an unknown, essentially a model that had

(19:58):
no acting experience and sometimes did not after the film.
So you know, obviously there's all this energy being put
into Adam and Eve is just a prop. Eve is
not really a character in the portrayal for the most part. Uh,
this film is very is very much the opposite, I mean,
and Eve's front and center. She is the focus. She's
the If there's a character that we truly identify with

(20:21):
and can imagine the internal world of it, is Eve
or or Eva? Uh is this a film where she's
called Eva? Well, I think that's I think Eva is
just the check way of saying Eve. So it's the same,
I think. But yeah, it's it's Ava in the movie.
But when you are great, She's She's the center of
this film. And I would the main characteristic I would

(20:41):
identify of of Ava in this movie is freedom. There
is something about her that just exudes a at an
infectious almost dangerous freedom, and I think that's funny and
how it aligns with something that Chilova actually said about herself.
Apparently this is a quote that she said about herself

(21:02):
in a documentary by somebody named he as Amina Blajevich
Chitlova said, I was daring enough to want absolute freedom,
even if it was a mistake. I think that's perfect.
I mean that that really sums up I feel like
the whole vibe of of of the ev character in
this film, because it's not like a she's not like
a righteous rule breaker, where where again we would have

(21:24):
to imagine this maybe super serious take on this that
that handles it differently. But but yeah, she is. She
is dangerously free. She's gonna she's gonna do what she wants,
and yeah, it might actually screw up paradise, but that's
that's the price of freedom she in this movie. She
is not chaotic good. She's not chaotic evil. She's chaotic neutral. Yeah,

(21:47):
and chaotic neutral and dungeons and dragons like that's that's
often characterized as a as a type of character that
is difficult or annoying to play. So it's also you
might you might well find her character maybe difficult and
annoying in this film because again, the chaotic neutral mindset,

(22:09):
it's not something that necessarily works well as the central
focus of a traditional narrative. Uh and and that's the
problem you get into a Dungeons and Dragons like, Oh,
you're just gonna be You're just gonna be a crazy person. Well,
I'm we're trying to all tell a story here together.
But in an art film like this, I mean, that's
that's kind of perfect an art film, or I would
say any kind of like a surrealist kind of comedy,

(22:30):
something where where the character, the central character is the jester.
The jester. That's a good way of putting it. I
would agree with that characterization here. Um uh. One more
quote about herself that I found was Chittolova apparently once
called herself an overheated kettle that you can't turn down.
I think she was describing her her sort of filmmaking style,

(22:53):
that it's very like, it's very passionate and high energy
and relentlessly pursuing the freedom to realize what she what
she feels like putting on screen, even if somebody's telling
her don't do this. I will say that that that
is one of the great things about an art film,
even ones that that I haven't particularly enjoyed in the past. Um. Uh,

(23:15):
just to I keep I keep alluding to this, let
me actually say which film I'm thinking of, because some
of you might be familiar with it. Yes, a nineteen
nine film called Begotten. Uh. This is uh by e
Elias Marriage. Uh. This is the guy who, believe went
on to make Shadow of a Vampire. Oh, so a

(23:36):
talented director. But Begotten is very much a weird art film,
often described as an experimental horror film. Uh. That is
visually very impressive, but also very serious. And I thought,
and for me, I've rather boring so so uh yeah,

(23:57):
that that, I think is often the kind of conundrum
with an art film. It's like you get this pure
vision and that vision is not it's not it's not
necessarily a narrative. It's not a commercial film. It's not
it's not that it's not really about entertaining you per se. Um,
it's it has a different agenda in place. And um
in in in that respect, yeah, you can't really judge

(24:20):
it with the same criteria. Uh. That being said, I
will drive home again that yes, um, Fruit of Paradise
far more enjoyable, a far more enjoyable experience. And um
and certainly and nobody disembowels themselves. Like I was thinking
of what would be kind of like the bingo card
of art films based on one's I've seen, and it
would be stuff like okay, um, you know, copious amounts

(24:42):
of nudity, um, disembowment. I don't know what else. I
didn't get very far with this experiment. Your personal history
may trend towards more like sort of horror themed experimental films. Yeah, yeah,
in in large part, I guess it has like and
uh you know, you certainly when you think of the
films have say, like, um, a lot of like the

(25:04):
psychedelic experimental films or getting into the work of of Doodorowski.
You know, that's stuff that is going to again have
at least one foot in some sort of genre experience,
be a Western, or fantasy or or horror. Uh so.
Um yeah, But then again you come back to this
film and it does have one foot firmly in the

(25:24):
world of myth. Anyway, I got off on a tangent there,
abobub we got. I don't even remember what my original point.
That's all right, man, We're all good, okay, So, uh
so we've just been talking about Chenollova herself for a while,
but she did not make this movie completely alone. She
had collaborators, including somebody named Esther Krumbakova, who Tenollova had

(25:46):
worked with multiple times before, or at least worked with
multiple times. Yeah. She lived primarily check costume designer, but
also a writer who also wrote in direct to nineteen
seventies Killing the Devil, and she also worked on the
screenplay for Daisies. Like you said, she was a frequent collaborator. Now,

(26:07):
we mentioned how much we loved, uh the character Ava
in this movie, and a lot of that is not
just the weird things she does from scene to scene. Uh.
The actress who plays her is also really great. And
this is somebody named Ytka Novacova. Yeah. Yeah, she lived
ninety two through two thousand and eighteen. Check actor, most
mostly active during the nineteen seventies. And yeah, it's just

(26:29):
such a great screen presence. I would I was thinking
of how to describe it. I would say she has
an impish energy to her, getting again into that Jester
vibe that she has going. Like I said, that dangerous
sense of freedom that's even there in the expressions on
her face. And it's trending very much towards a mischievousness. Yeah.
And again this just stands in start contrast to I

(26:51):
think most cinematic Eves. You'll see Adam and Eve movies
tend to fall into that category that I think of
as doll people movies where you of some sort of
of overly innocent people that often they often end up
playing it kind of dumb like innocence as kind of
a stupidity. I think of, you know, movises like the Clonus,

(27:12):
Horror anything, where you have adults of behaving sort of
like children, but but again often going in this sort
of daft direction of that. But here I feel like
Eva is very much uh, you know, we were talking
about a character who is innocent, who is in a
sense a person with the mind of a child, but

(27:34):
in the chaotic sense, but in a way that is
still very much a part of the innocence of childhood.
And uh, and it's just it's beautifully captured, beautifully active.
This Eva is not going to go to America when
they say it's time to go to America, She's like, no,
I'm going to run with scissors now. Yeah, Like I mean,
because seriously, you think of like Eve you think of
of of children, and you think of Adam, you think

(27:56):
of children, and yes, a child may say something like
what the flower father? What is a butterfly? I don't know,
But they're also going to be the type of the
individual to say, smears something sticky on the wall just
to see what it looks like. Children are are innocent
that they are there is this chaos to then they are.
They are testing the world, and you get a strong
sense of that in this performance. Now, Rob I didn't

(28:19):
think about this beforehand, but the two named male characters
in this movie are Robert and Joseph, which are our names. Unfortunately,
my name corresponds to the boring one. I am Adam. Who.
How would you characterize Adam in this movie? He's a
weird kind of back note to everything, like he's this
uh uh kind of alternately well meaning and devious but

(28:43):
also sometimes oblivious older man. Yeah, it's a strange energy
because again stands out from other Adam and E films
because it's not a muscle dude. It's I though he
seems to be in good shape, but he's obviously an
older guy. It was really kind of hard to put
a finger on. But yeah, there's something kind of unsettling

(29:04):
about him, but not overtly so. I I anytime he
was on screen, I was just kind of puzzling over
his presence. But this is this character Adam in this
movie Yosef played by Carl Novak. I guess I would
say that at times he has more of a partner
vibe and other times he has kind of a a
would be controller vibe. I don't know if I'm reading

(29:26):
too much into the film, but uh, I guess I
was also thinking about sort of a more feminist betrayal
of Adam and Eve, one in which you're going to
lean less on the idea that that Eve has messed up,
and let's get into the flaws of Adam in all
of this as well. But it's interesting because it doesn't
just simply recast the Adam figure as like the villain.

(29:46):
I would not call him the villain of this movie.
I would just call him, uh, kind of morally confused
and ambiguous. Yeah. Now, to get to the more interesting
to your namesake here in the film, the character Bert.
This is our snake slash devil played by Jan Schmid. Yes.
Schmid was born ninety six and if IMDb is correct

(30:08):
still alive as of this recording check. Actor, writer, and director.
I'm not familiar with most of the films that he's
credited with, but I was taken by the fact that
he's in a two film titled what is this of
Thay Vampire? Vampire? I'll just I'll just skip to the summary.
This is off of IMDV quote. A dr Marek is

(30:32):
shocked when his beloved nurse Mima signs a contract with
foreign car manufacturer Ferrat or Farrey Uh in order to
work for them as a rally driver. A fellow doctor
makes him believe that human blood is being used as
fuel for Mima's ever winning car. But does that really work?
We have to watch this and this must be seen. Yeah,

(30:55):
so that that grabbed my attention. But yeah, in this movie,
Schmidt play is Robert, a weird guy in a red
suit almost always I think wearing a red suit. Is
described as a loner at this health resort slash paradise again,
possibly a murderer, and almost certainly the devil. Like there's
no denying it. This guy is supposed to be our

(31:15):
devil figure. He is a weird nerd, the most adorably
awkward Satan. Yeah, he's not your suath Satan. He's not
your mustache curling Satan exactly. Though there are there are
scenes where he is a little more villainous overso, but
other times, yeah, he's just kind of awkward. He's just
a fish out of water here. They are often describing

(31:37):
him as like, oh, he's he's the only one here
who's alone. Everyone else heres couples, and so in that
there's this sense of pity, but also this sense of
potential danger. You know that he's potentially potentially lectus, which
is an interesting in a way. It's it's like a
balanced way of looking at a Satan character. Is is
he to be pitied or is he to be blamed?

(31:57):
Or is it both? Well, and also that that thing
I mentioned earlier about is he the corrupter or is
he the person who actually brings true knowledge that pulls
the wool away from your eyes? Yeah, which the Satan
Prometheus dichotomy. So he did bring a gun into a
health spot, which I feel like that's a red flag
bad bad call Satan. Now. One of the thing I

(32:18):
have got to say about this movie, though, is I
loved the music, especially at certain parts like there's a
whole scene, uh that where where Ava just goes up
into the attic and starts playing drums and it turns
into this weird drum solo that uh later involves trying
to push a statue out of a window to land

(32:39):
on her and kill her. Um. But but the music
throughout the movie is just great. I think, actually probably
my favorite part of music and the whole thing is
the beginning sequence with the psychedelic nude Adam and Eve
with the with the like choirs singing the lines from
the biblical story. Yeah, that was wonderful, uh and yeah

(33:01):
there and then the music. There are times where the
music is more whimsical, because again there are a lot
of whimsical scenes, But then there is just a lot
of of electronic and kind of coral, kind of eerie
ethereal uh sound pieces that are in play here, and
I love those. So I think the music for for
Me is one of the strongest elements of the film.

(33:23):
And the music here is from Zdenek Liska, who lived
nineteen twenty two through nineteen eighty three. Check composer who
worked on film scores from the nineteen fifties through the
early nineteen eighties. He's noted for his use of electronic sounds,
and is known for his work on the early short
films of stop motion surrealist Young spunk Meyer Uh. In

(33:44):
addition to Fruit of Paradise, he also worked on such
notable check films as The Valley of the Bees, The Creamator,
and uh kory x B one. This was a nineteen
sixty three science fiction film based loosely on Stanis law
Him's The Magellanic Cloud, which also I've read may have
been partial inspiration for Stanley Kubrick's two thousand and one.

(34:08):
Oh interesting. You attached a couple of screenshots. This looks
like a movie I would like to see. I think,
you know, my affinity as has come through a little
bit on the show so far, for like for like
Eastern block science fiction films. They're not always amazing, but
there's something about them that's that's kind of fun. Yeah.
I was pulling up some stills from this one. Yeah

(34:28):
and uh, and some of them look exactly like some
sort of an early sixties sci fi world. You know,
you have the Robbie the Robot esque robot. There, you
have old dudes and weird space costumes. But also some
very stylistic looking interiors. I'm not saying it's anything on
the level of Planet of Vampires, but still it looks

(34:49):
it looks pretty solid. Oh yeah, I see what you're saying.
Though it's not on the Planet of the Vampire's level,
but the sets and the costumes have that quality like
you would like to touch and feel them, you know,
I want to touch that headrest. So anyway, strong music
in this film, and yeah, I guess getting right into
the well the plot a bit, if you will. The
that opening sequence is pretty tremendous, you know, this this

(35:12):
paradise sequence of the what we're to think of is
not the modern paradise that we are examining in this film,
but the primordial paradise. This is where we have two
fully nude individuals that are walking through this psychedelic landscape
with kind of kaleidoscopic colors and botanical motifs swirling around them,

(35:33):
all while this this wonderful soundscape plays. Yeah, you see
them moving through the garden and there is this quality
of it's like stained glass, but with the texture of
autumn leaves coming down over everything, and the colors are
cascading and this amazing music is playing. Uh that that
whole sequence at the beginning is just fantastic. I think

(35:55):
this is also as newd as the film is going
to get. So if you're you're hoping that this bull
of nudity will be maintained throughout the film, you will
be disappointed, though there will be at least a splash
of nudity later on. Yeah, from here, I don't really
know what's the best way to to approach, Like the
part where we we would normally break down the plot
because like you know, there's nothing, there's no story in

(36:18):
particular to follow, but maybe I don't know, we could
talk about some moments that stood out to us. Um
So the movie starts with kind of Eva wandering around
in this overgrown garden area, and there's part where she
she climbs over a wall that seems to be a
crossing of a threshold of sorts, and she's like harvesting

(36:40):
herbs and vegetables I guess for for food, but literally
we alluded to this earlier. There's a part where she's
crawling around clipping herbs from the ground and suddenly she
nearly gets paid on by the devil, and the devil
is like standing atop the wall, uh peeing and as
if I recall, she seems a sort of interest did

(37:00):
and amused by this turn of events. Yeah, it's an
odd sequence. And in the Devil, I don't think any
knows as she's down there. He's just paying because he
has to relieve himself. Yeah, and there are scenes of
her around this section where she's like running around with
the knife. I was like, that's not safe, but for
some reason it works. It's very funny. Yeah, it's this

(37:20):
huge Michael Myer's signature edition kitchen knife that she's running
around with and thankfully nobody gets hurt. Now the we
alluded to the earlier to the filming locations. The filming
locations are really interesting in this film. There's there's there
are scenes where we have this kind of beachy desert quality,
strange rock formations, and indeed there's a sequence later on

(37:43):
and I'm I'm a little uh foggy on exactly what
was happening in this sequence, But there's a woman, there's
a nude woman reading a book down in this kind
of rock cleft, and then our characters encounter her and
there's it's there's the camera goes down into the cleft
as well. It's it's a very beautiful sequence. Yeah, it
involves this like very narrow slot canyon um. And then

(38:07):
there are other parts where you see somebody i think
maybe one of the top ledges above that canyon, pushing
a boulder toward the edge, like they're going to push
it off to land on somebody, which is a recurring
theme in the movie. Actually there's a scene so where
where the Devil and Adam are both there like having
a conversation in the attic of a house and they're like, Hey,
look at this beautiful marble statue, and they get the idea,

(38:29):
what if we push this out the window so it
lands on Eve. Well, maybe we should try it. And
so there's that, there's the pushing the statue out the window,
there's the pushing the rock off the ledge to land
on somebody. I don't know exactly what to say this
theme means, and in fact, I think I've made my
feelings about this clear on the show before. I'm less
a fan of like really direct allegory where it's like, oh, well,

(38:50):
this image means exactly this, and this character corresponds to
exactly this person. You know, I like a more kind
of ambiguous symbolism that that has numerous associations but doesn't
clearly respond to just like, oh, well, it means this
one thing. But clearly this seemed to be something that
was on Chittelova's mind, like the pushing of heavy objects
off of ledges, uh, therefore threatening somebody who lies is

(39:13):
down below. But I don't know. Did did you think
about that? I? I did now thinking back on it.
Did they ever actually have anything land on anybody? To
the devil actually squash anybody? Well? No, In the end,
the devil ends up pushing the rock down a down
a hill and it goes it rolls into the bog, remember,
and then he's trying and then characters are standing on

(39:35):
the rock so as not to sink into the bog.
But I think there are multiple I can't remember if
it actually lands on Eva and kills her in the
scene where they're pushing the statue out the window. I
think it's implied that it does, but then she's alive
again in the next scene. So yeah, I don't know
quite what to make of it, but I like you,
I like the ambiguity of it. It also ties into
again the whimsical nature. Why is the devil pushing these

(39:57):
rocks around? What's this about? I mean, I think to
take it on. The more you re aside, you could
say that that kind of imagery could have something to
do with like the hammer falling of course with the
the invasion of Czechoslovakia. But um, but it's hard to
get too specific about it. Yeah, or the devil's playing
kind of a long game where yeah, it's it's about
fun now, but ultimately it's about a rock falling on you. Now.

(40:28):
One of my favorite sequences in the film was the
sequence in which are Gal Eva here, who again is
is both interested in the devil but also and Robert
the Devil but also is you know, a little fraid
of him at times. And there's this wonderful scene where
where everybody's out fro loocking on the beach or in
the sand. Robert the Devil drops the key key from

(40:52):
his pocket and Eva steals it and then takes the
key back and breaks into the devil's room at the
main building of the health spa and basically just snoops
through all the devil's stuff. She finds a six stamp
and gives herself a stamp on the upper thigh. Uh so, yeah.

(41:12):
Probably probably my favorite sequence in the film is esscitainly
my favorite day Eva sequence because she's just frolicking around.
It's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, I love that part. In fact,
So she stamps herself on the thigh with the number six,
and then she finds the stamp won't come off, and
then she realizes I think that the other women who
have turned up murdered were also stamped with numbers, and

(41:33):
she's like, whoops. But when she's going through the Devil's stuff,
is this the scene where she was opening drawers in
the desk and they like, one day drawer is full
of cherries and another drawers I get where the drawers
are all full of like implausible things. Well, he likes
the color red, so he likes cherries. I guess. No,

(41:54):
I didn't think about that. Yes, that's rather obvious in retrospect,
but I don't know. There's also fruit. It's more fruit,
that's right now. As you pointed out, there is a
lot of chasing in this movie, and it's not a
in a consistent direction either. Characters sort of take turns
chasing each other in different situations. Yeah, Eva chases Robert

(42:15):
Proper chases Eva. More shots of these surreal locations is
there you go about these chases, and so this is
definitely a sequence where, um, you know, my brain was
probably wanting to find more narrative than was present, but
you know, you still you still go with it. One
character is chasing the other. That's really all you need

(42:35):
to know. This continues for some time, but eventually you're
gonna get to that big showdown, right, um, which I
mean I say that like it's a matter of fact.
There's no showdown between even the Devil in the Bible,
so you might well not expected here, but I don't know,
it felt it felt logical here because it's also this
idea that the devil is killing people, so he's like

(42:56):
a murder suspect. Any kind of film, if you present
a murder suspect, there has to be a confrontation, right
like that that goes beyond like narrative structure, and like
that seems to be some sort of a divine imprint
on reality. I thought it was interesting that this showdown
takes place at a setting that would be a perfectly
suitable location for an ending sword fight if you're gonna

(43:16):
have he man battle the enemy, uh you know, and
they're crossing sabers. It's out on this like rock by
the water's edge that looks very dramatic, but instead what
even the and Robert end up doing there is having
these sort of almost waiting for Godot like uh you know,
like the conversations that seem to end up in a

(43:37):
certain place, but then that's immediately undercut, like they're talking
about whether he's going to murder her with this gun
or not. And then I think at one point he's like, Okay,
I'm going to murder you now, and then he doesn't,
and then she gets the gun. And then clearly something
comes through from this about you know, a situation of
dangerous ambiguity where like you, you feel the stakes are high,

(43:59):
but you don't know if someone is your friend or
your enemy. You don't know if they love you or
if they're going to kill you. Also say that that
Robert the devil here doesn't get He doesn't have like
a villainous monologue or anything, so there's there's no moment
where he's like, off, this was my design. I've you know,
I've I've I've brought down God's creation or anything to
that effect. Like he it's played pretty uh ambiguous with

(44:22):
him as well, which I think ultimately works quite well
in this film. Now, as we said, even though this
movie is not like super heavy handed and serious, it
does clearly have a theme of something about the loss
of innocence. I would say this is characterized by like
the changing color of Eva's clothing, like changing from from

(44:44):
like white to red and uh, and then also the
parts where she's like trying to climb back over the
wall into the garden but she can't get over it,
you know, like the state of innocence cannot be regained.
And I guess this ties more into the ends of
themes that you would normally see in these other uh
maybe uh more constrained Adam and Eve type films. In fact, Rob,

(45:08):
I know you you sort of did a deep dive
on Adam and Eve movies that did you want to
get into that here? Sure? But but first I will
say that another thing about the ending to this is
that it does end and kind of on a somber
note when she she finally makes her way back to
the atom figure to Joseph and yeah, they have this
this kind of like somber interaction. Uh, you know, as

(45:29):
if to drive home it's maybe not it's it's not
as as mythic and overbearing, as like as an angel
with a flaming sword saying, all right, I gotta get
out of the paradise. Now go up and have painful childbirth.
But but there is this this somber sense of things
are not going to be the same again, that that
the innocence has been lost, but not in such an

(45:49):
overtly dramatic way, but more in a subtle way, like
one day when you realize that you were you're you're
not a child anymore, when you realize that you are
a grown up or that or that you were under
at least by some definitions, an old person. Now that
sort of thing like that seems to be the kind
of vibe that they have. Or that some change has
happened in the world. Uh that maybe you weren't even

(46:13):
aware of it at the time, but now that that
change has definitely occurred and there's no going back. Yeah,
I think that's profound. In fact, I was going to
say that the last feeling I had with the movie
is you can't go back. Yeah, alright, Well, getting into
other Adam and Eve movies just briefly. I'm not gonna
spend a lot of time on these because some of
them we might even come back to. I don't know. UM,

(46:34):
I would say the Adam and Eve film that stands
out to me the most is nineteen eighties The Apple.
I think we've talked about The Apple before, Joe just
I mean off off the podcast. Have you seen The Apple? No?
I haven't, I've heard of it. It is a science
fiction musical comedy film starring Katherine Mary Stewart as Eve,

(46:54):
Polish actor of Vladdock, Sheball as the Devil, and josh
Ak and the great British actor as God in a
small role. And it is um it is a lot.
This is a film that a lot of people consider
it to be a very bad film, but it's beyond
good and bad, like it's it's beyond good and evil.

(47:15):
It is just a very strange film that is extremely
over the top. Was this a Cannon Films venture? Why
do I want to say that? Um? I don't recall
off hand if if Cannon did not have a have
a role in it. It has that kind of Cannon energy,
like like what what chemical? Um concoction helped create this

(47:39):
vision for cinema and then saw it realized yep, I
just looked it up. It was indeed the Cannon group,
it's a director, it's this is a Gold Globus film.
Well it is. Uh, it is also an acquired taste,
but but the one that's a lot of fun. So
I think the riff track guys did this year's Bad

(48:00):
Act and it was a pretty fun riff at the time. Well,
and even if it's known for being very bad, uh,
I would like to check it out because this seems
to defy the conventions. So if you ask me, I
don't know a lot about Adam and Eve movies, but
my guests would be they fall essentially into two categories.
One is, you know, your ten Commandment style sort of
like literal, heavy handed religious film, and then the other

(48:22):
style would be exploitation movie that's just an excuse to
show two naked people. Yeah, and and here's the thing though,
I think a lot of times there's a considerable overlap
between those two because certainly, yeah, you do have this
this very this old old Testament account of Adam and
Eve at the heart here, but it inherently involves uh,
naked people walking around in paradise wearing little or no clothing.

(48:45):
You know, maybe they have some leaves on, that sort
of thing. So there is some inherent titillation that's that's unavoidable,
like how or if you're gonna if you're gonna commit
this to to film, then you're gonna have to make
some choices about how how naked it is going to be,
so you see this. This is strongly present in many
of the more famous Adam and E films over the years.

(49:06):
One that I'm particularly interested in that I didn't know
about until just yesterday is Adam and Eve from three,
an Italian production starring Mark Gregory. Mark Gregory was the
hero in The Bronx Warriors and the film Escape from
the Bronx. These were kind of escape from New York
esque post apocalyptic films. Wait was he and was he

(49:30):
in Hands of Steel? The Italian Terminator rip off? We did?
I don't think he was. No, this is a different dude.
But this guy had more of a muscular but leaner
with really shaggy dark hair. You'd recognize him if you
saw him. Okay, I have read I believe that George
Miller of Mad Max Fame did some of the secondary

(49:50):
landscape shots in this uncredited, but it looks it looks
so interesting. It has pterodactyls and cannibal cavemen in it,
so they seemed to do it. Perhaps set out to
make Adam and Eve and then realize, well, we should
go we should make this even more fantastic. Why are
there no caveman? Why is there no cannibalism? Can we
throw some prehistoric reptiles in here and have Adam kill

(50:10):
one of them? Um, it sounds amazing. I haven't watched
it yet, but I asked the folks that video Drome
if they had it, and they're like, we will have
it for you by the end of the week. So um,
I'm at least gonna watch it on my own time. Wait,
it has cannibal caveman, pterodactyls, shirtless muscle dude. And this
just sounds like a Bible themed version of your Hunter

(50:33):
from the Future. Is this just smashing together two genres,
which one is Bible movie and the other is Italian
leather diaper barbarian movie. I think you nailed it, Yes.
And now another adaptation that's worth the noting is the
nineteen sixty nine Mexican adaptation The Sin of Adam and Eve,
which has Jorge Rivero in it, who is in Lucci

(50:57):
Luccio Fulci's Conquest, and also the film Werewolf. He plays
Yuri and werewolf, the extremely muscley. He's supposed to be
a paleontologist or archaeologist and I don't know, but he's
the one who wants to make a living werewolf and
he does it by hitting a guy with a werewolf skull. Yeah. Yeah,
as though, big handsome muscle guy playing plan Adam in

(51:21):
this film. I was looking around. There's some other's one.
There's a nineteen seventy Iranian Adam and E film that's
listed on an IMDb, but I haven't found much else
about it. Oh, and then there's a nineteen fifty six
Mexican Adam and Eve film by director Alberto Gout And Oh.
I was reading about this one in Michael Weldon's Psychotronic books.

(51:42):
He says that this movie was given an A three
rating in nineteen fifty six, which I'm to understand. It
was like, I don't know if that's the equivalent of
a G, but it was like a very family friendly
rating because it was quote based on the Bible. Um, meanwhile,
there are other films with nudity that we're being banned
in Mexico at the time. Um. Weldon also writes that

(52:02):
quote an all naked premiere was held at a nudest
colony and miniature Bibles were sold at some showings, which, okay,
I think that really drives home the idea of Adam
and Eve films as Christian Eurotica right there. Like that,
it's able to sort of double dip, where on one
hand it's being you know, it's they're having a screening
at a nudest colony, clearly trying to maybe cultivate that

(52:24):
euromarket for the film, but also, uh, it is for
the children, it is for the churchgoers, and therefore it
is safe and wholesome for the domestic market. That's weird.
Adam and Eve movies are weird, There's no denying it.
There's also only so much story there, like it makes
so you might add some dinosaurs and some cavemen in there. Right,

(52:45):
It's very lean narrative. I mean, essentially it's the length
of a parable. You know, you can't You're either going
to have to go deeper into the story beyond, like
they leave the garden and then you do Cane enable
and all that stuff. So you could do that to
stretch it out, or you're gonna have to embellish a lot,
or you're gonna have to have a lot of non
narrative content in the film, I don't know, just lots
of shots of the garden or something. Yeah, Or it's

(53:08):
just part of a longer narrative, such as the six
film The Bible Colon in the beginning and in that
when you had Michael Parks uh playing Adam in an
all star cast. Whoa, I think Georgy Scotts in that one.
It's what Yeah, I'm sure I've seen part of it
on TV on a Sunday afternoon at some point in
my life. You know, it's funny. I'm looking for the

(53:30):
listeners benefit. Rob. You have attached a bunch of screenshots
from various Adam and Eve movies over the years in
our outline here. It seems largely that these these characters
are cast just according to how photogenic they are. But
like one direction, seems like they often make Adam like
a like a muscle man, you know, like a Hercules
type figure. But the other ways, they just make him

(53:51):
like kind of an elf. Yeah, and Michael Parks definitely
played a very elfin atom Uh. And you know, I
don't think I've seen much from his earlier career most
of the mostly when I think of him as an actor,
I think of of more grizzled performances that he gave
later in life. And oh one more. There was also
a two thousand thirteen miniseries titled The Bible and in

(54:13):
the United States. It was narrated by Keith David What
ya um, but I I haven't seen this one, but
oh I included this very um it's kind of greasy
and grimy looking still shot from this of Adam and
Eve with Eve played by Darcy Rose, and they're they're
out there in the garden. Presumably they have something that

(54:35):
I'm I guess it's supposed to be the fruit, but
it looks like some sort of a Crimson egg jewel
or something. And they look very serious, very but also
very maxim magazine. Yeah, they're really dirty and the fruit
looks like a century egg. Yeah. So that's just a
taste of some of the Adam and Eve movies. But
but people have been making Adam and Eve movies for
forever like you. I could also find some examples of

(54:59):
silent films them as far back as nineteen twelve and
nineteen fifteen. So you know, obviously it's a famous story.
It is also visually captivating. Uh and and so it
makes sense that it would receive early cinematic treatment. Oh yeah, yeah, sure,
And I will say I have not seen most of
these movies. I don't know if I've seen any of
these other Adam and Eve movies, but I've got to imagine,

(55:20):
uh maybe, along with the Apple, Fruit of Paradise has
got to be one of the most unique takes on
the story. Yeah. Oh. There is also a ninete Italian
comedy titled Adam and Eve that was produced by Dino
di Laurentis. I included a poster from this. As you
can tell, we have the clearly beautiful blonde Eve, very

(55:41):
blond Eve, holding the apple, and also a clear comedic
player in the role of Adam here. Uh so, uh
so we've also been we've been having some levels of
comedic fun here, clearly over the top with this myth
for quite a while as well. The Adam in this
poster looks way too a sited. He's like his eyes

(56:02):
are huge as eyebrowser lifted up. Yeah, you're giving taking
the source materials seriously at all. Yeah, this looks like
an Italian sex comedy. Yeah, I'm almost positive it is. Yeah,
they're both not Eve. Look at look at her having
way too much fun. Go ahead and leave the garden now.
In fact, just go ahead and just out. I can

(56:22):
tell Adam here looks like a child who is showing
you the like ridiculous looking character he made in uh
wwf war Zone for the Nintendo sixty. Yeah. Yeah, anyway,
I'd love to hear from anyone out there who has
as any additional info they want to share about Adam

(56:43):
and Eve movies or memories of seeing Adam and Eve
movies early on. I'm I'm especially interested in in anybody
who attended, to, say, a church viewing of of a
film that featured the Adam and Eve story and what
that was like, um, Because again you get to the
strange area where it is inherently titillating. Um, but it

(57:03):
is also you know, sometimes prevented presented in this this
entirely sacred and wholesome package. So I wonder how that
went down for some people out there. Likewise, we'd love
to hear from anyone who has thoughts about our our
central discussion piece here, Fruit of Paradise. Uh, you know
we are. I speak for myself. I don't know much

(57:24):
about check cinema, so I would love to hear from
anyone out there who has more expertise in the world
of check cinema. Perhaps you have thoughts or additional notes
on some of the players that were involved in this
film some of the other films they were in, because
again I could look up these actors and I could
find more details on some of the films, but I
just don't know much about this whole cinematic realm so much. Yes,

(57:46):
same here, I was looking around. I think I'm I'm
woefully uh under exposed to to check cinema. The closest
thing I could think is, obviously, I know the UM
the American films of Milosh Foreman, who started in in
check cinema UM and I think was sort of the
same generation as to LoVa, or at least was somewhere
around there, but then of course ended up making films

(58:07):
like Amadas. Yeah, yeah, so I'm familiar with him. I guess.
I mean, I'm more familiar with with the check directors
who definitely crossed over into the into like the American
market to some extent. And I've seen some of the
films of of Jan's Funk Maya, but not all of them.
All Right, well, we're gonna go ahead and uh and
close the book on this episode of Weird House Cinema.

(58:28):
But yeah, right in, we'd love to hear from you. Also,
if you want to check out our letterboxed account, that's
that uh L E T T E R b o
x D dot com. We have a profile there. Our
user name is weird House. You can follow us there.
You can look at a list and a visual uh
compilation of all the films that we've discussed on the show.
And also I'll often go ahead and add the next

(58:50):
movie on there as well, so you get like a
little glimpse ahead at what's coming. Also, I blog about
the films that we watch here at smut music dot com.
Weird House Cinema is our Friday episode and the Stuff
to Blow your Mind podcast feed were primarily a science podcast,
but on Friday's we put aside most serious concerns and
just talk about a strange film and uh yeah, anything

(59:11):
else so we should throw in here, I guess I
guess not. We're good to go, right right, Yeah, we
are set to depart the garden. That's right out. Just
did the animals get to stay unclear? Um? Yeah, I
don't know. I guess they didn't eat the fruit. Yeah, true.
I guess I should revisit my My Dante because they
you do get to visit the earthly paradise at the
amount of purgatory. Oh that's at the top of purgatory yet,

(59:34):
So okay anyway, huge thanks as always to our excellent
audio producers Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to
get in touch with us with feedback on this episode
or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,
or just to say hello, you can email us at
contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff

(59:58):
to Blow Your Mind. It's production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I
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your favorite shows. H