February 1, 2011 • 28 mins
Tool use isn't unique to human beings -- many other organisms have proven capable of learning to use tools in both wild and captive environments. In this episode, Julie and Robert take a closer look at Earth's tool using life forms.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,
what is this thing that you have constructed on your
side of the desk? Um, it's I guess it's kind
of a note holder, and it's it's a made out
(00:27):
of some sort of box that I found, and it's
got paper clips that apparently aren't doing anything, but it
is serving a purpose and a clothes pin apparently. Oh
that's right. Well, I don't know where you got a
clothes pin in the office, but well, some of us
like to save energy. You are laundry here and floor balcony,
we get a lot of wind out there. Yeah exactly, Yeah.
(00:48):
I Um, I engaged in a bit of this is
of course tool use that you're engaging in here, yes,
and uh and I actually engaged in a little bit
of this during our recent um great freeze that hit
Atlanta Seddon Snowmageddon as some people call it. And uh,
the situation was that we kept making hot tea because
that was all we could basically, you know, it's just like,
(01:10):
let's just what are we gonna do? Now, let's make
hot tea? What we're gonna do? Now, let's play scrabble
and let's make hot tea. And that was like, you know,
four days of being trapped inside doing that, and our
T ball was like the chain was broken on it.
So ended up like constructing something where I took like
the T ball and then I used some like some
like butcher twine. Is a book called butter twine, Yes, yes,
(01:31):
and uh, and like I used that to attach it
to to like a metal skewer and uh and created
a system of being of moving the T ball in
and out of the the boiling kettle. So um wow,
So I have to ask you, did you make so
much tea that you guys broke it and then you
needed to resort to tool using behavior. Yes, so you
found out a little something about yourself during Snowmageddon. Yeah,
(01:53):
I think I think I did. And it's it's interesting
as we get into this and we start talking about
tool use in the animal kingdom, you do see that
captivity and uh, and we'll often bring out, um, the
more innovative side of many animals. An animal that is
not necessarily a tool user may become one in captivity.
Uh well, and one that is capable of only say,
(02:14):
like a very low level tool use is sometimes capable
of higher level tool use if they're locked in a zoo. Okay,
so boredom is the mother of invention, is what I'm hearing. Yes,
also the mother of of injury. But but, but but
luckily nothing went wrong with the the the t H
ball invention that I came up with. So let's um,
(02:37):
let's talk about tool use then. Yeah? Okay, so I
guess we we normally think about tool use uh in primates,
right and goodall witnessing a single blade of grass being
stuck down into a termite mound and then a lovely
snack emerging. Yeah, or just like you know, two thousand
and one to Space Odyssey, monkeys picking up bones beating
other monkeys on the head because weapons are ultimately ultimately tools,
(03:01):
right right, But I think that we we we don't
necessarily look to other animals and think, oh, well, I
bet that they're an extraordinary tool user, right, But in
fact they are. And my favorite example is the octopus. Actually,
oh yeah, yeah, this one is is really cool? Now,
this is uh an octopus? As we all know, does
(03:21):
not have a a shell. There are various cephalopots that do.
But the octopus depends on other methods of survival camouflage,
of shape changing basically and uh and and being able
to sort of creeper around and not draw a lout
of attention to itself. Yeah. But what do you do
if you've got across the sea floor and there's nothing
to camouflage yourself against and I don't know, you've got
(03:42):
another mile to go. Well, you could, I guess you could.
If you could evolve, you could slowly develop some sort
of a protective coating through uh, you know, through you know,
one dead octopus after another dead octopus, until um, you
end up you know, selecting that octopus that has a
harder shell. Right, Yeah, yeah, I guess you could. Or
in the short term, if you lived in Indonesia and
(04:05):
you are an octopus and you saw a coconut on
the bottom of the sea floor, you could take the
two halves of it and you could crawl into it
when you needed to and reassemble it. And no one
would be the wiser, right, They'd be like, oh gosh,
that that's not prey, that's just a stupid coconut, and
I love that. I love that octopus is like, you
(04:27):
know what this this is something that I can obscure
myself in nobody's gonna know, and now I can resume
my journey. Wow, that's really incredible. It's um and and
and and it just goes to show that, I mean,
all tool use really kind of close us into something
to some serious cognition going on. Yeah, and an octopier
pretty smart. As one of the reasons I me personally,
(04:50):
I can't really eat them uh in sushi anymore. I
just you know, I hear they're as smart as cats,
you know, from various things. And then I look at
my cat and I'm like, I wouldn't needt my cat
on a californ in your role or yeah, if I
did eat seafood, I have to say, just just the
look of them, I don't know, it just seems it
seems like a frightening proposition to have that in my mouth.
But what I what I think is so cool too
(05:10):
about this coke in that example is it totally reminded
me of this invention. It's in Japan and have you
ever seen this? It's this fold up coke machine. Okay, well,
it's but I do really want to do an episode
about amazing vending machines sometimes, so do all right, Okay,
there's actually there's plenty of them, listeners. I think you
(05:31):
wink wink, I think you might know we're talking about here.
But this I love the idea of this, but it's
super silly. I mean, it's flat packed, looks like a
coke machine. When you unpack it, you hip yourself in
it and then lo and behold you look like a
plastic vending machine. So what happens when people put money
into you or reaching to you for snacks? You have
several choices in response. But I was thinking, you know
(05:53):
that the octopus is is actually much more clever than
us humans in trying to camouflage themselves on the streets,
so to speak. Well, that's awesome. It's um, we're researching
about this and a lot of tool use um. When
it comes to you know, the brain comes down to
something uh that we call body scheme schema schema. Yeah,
(06:15):
and uh and this is uh, this idea has been
around for about a hundred years and it's and it's
the idea that our brains are just constantly processing visual
tactile feedback about what our bodies are doing and how
they're positioned, and you you create these different sort of
versions of ourselves, you know. So like I like to
think of it in terms of like martial arts movies,
(06:35):
where like somebody goes into say like drunken monkey stance
or or tiger stance, you know. But but we have
but as tool users, we have a well as humans,
we would have other stances like oh my goodness, don't
hit me in the face of that ball stance or
um or I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna chase the
cat stands. That those you know, different body positions that
(06:55):
are aimed towards particular tasks. But when you're throw in
tools and you get all these differ different additional positions,
you get like grumpy snow shoveler stance or intense polentis
stir stands, toothbrusher stands. Don't forget rosota stands, the zota stands.
It's that the other one that involves a lot of stirring. Yeah,
I just know I'll be asked to stir something and
(07:16):
and then I just I lose all memory of what
I'm stirring. It's so it takes so long, delicious when
it's done, but it's just it's quite quite an effort.
But but anyway, um, so our brains are constantly you know, working,
working this out, and it's it's it's definitely an instance
of these tools becoming an extension of our bodies. They're
(07:39):
a part of our body. Scam there, they become part
of who we are. You know, we were used to
hearing about this. One's like you hear people talking about
like swordsmanship or golf, you know, and you hear it's like, oh,
well you need to make the club an extension of
your arm. Yeah, be one with the sword or something,
you know. And that's exactly what's going on. Like the
more you're you're able to, the better you are using
(08:01):
a tool, the more the brain identifies it as a
part of yourself, right right. And actually they were us
on a study from the National Institute of Health on
tool use tasks for toddlers, and they were talking about
how toddlers um that we're using tools to act on themselves,
like feed themselves, for instance. We're picking up on that
and using that a lot more than externally. In other words,
(08:22):
like you know, feeding Elmo some keenoir or something. Um.
And so you do you see that that idea of
it being an extension of yourself right there in that example,
and that we automatically say, Okay, I'm a little toddler
brain and I'm trying to figure this out for myself,
and here's my spoon. Um. But you know, Elmo is
not going to get his food until much later. But
(08:46):
that brings me to this point. You know, we should
probably talk exactly about what tool use is. I mean,
you know, it seems pretty obvious, but it's really defined
as providing no benefit until they're used for a very
specific purpose. So with animals, what's really cool about that
is that it shows that the animal is capable of
pre planning, advanced planning. Yeah, it's not just an animal, say,
(09:09):
picking up a stick and beating random things with it.
It's there's no purpose to that. So's that's not tool used. Now,
something like that night develop into tool use in time.
But but yeah, there's got to be a purpose in mind.
That's right. We're saying a lot of cogitation going on.
Cogitation party, um, and they're actually um, I've read that
(09:31):
they're they're basically two types of tools. There is a
what is good. Well, first, there's something called an artifact, right,
An artifact is something that is crafted. For example, if
a chimp, you know, like I say, we're all using
like we used to seeing images of like a chimp
sticking a poking a stick down a termite hole and
coming up with termites to look off. Well, they've been
(09:54):
Chimps have been known to chew the termite fishing stick
so that it fits better into the holes. So they're
creating an artific fact. Now, if they had not used
their mouths to to alter it, they would have what
is sometimes called a nature fact, which is kind of
like just a found object tool like oh, here's a stick,
I'll pick it up, I'll get some bugs on it
and eat the bugs off the stick, but I haven't
(10:15):
changed the stick. And then when it comes to these
different artifacts, they're basically four levels. Uh. There is reduction
where you reduce the mass of a functional object, like
take the stick, choose something off of it, Now you
can use it. Then there's conjunction where you combine two
or more units to make a tool. An example of
this where it would be you take like looking at
(10:36):
early humans, Like you take a stone, sharpen it into something,
and then you attach it to a stick to make
a spear. Ghammo, you have a conjunction tool, and then
they're the third level replica replication. This would be where
it's conjunction but with two or more similar units. So
if you made a two headed spear, you know, you're, you're, you're.
You have two different, three different things going on there,
(10:58):
and then there's a linkage. And this is the most
more complicated form. And this is where you have physically
distinct forms used in combination. And that would be like
if you made a bow and you made an arrow.
Bow and arrow are both rather different, but together you
have a a single um tool that's very useful to
early hunters. Okay, actually that was making me think about elephants. Um.
(11:20):
I know that in South Africa, it was observed that
an elephant, after digging a hole and drinking water and
presumably expitting that water back in, stripped bark from a
nearby tree and then chewed it into a large ball,
so transforming it, and then plug the hole and covered
it with sand, So essentially that the elephant was making
(11:41):
m a canteen. Yeah, and then taking that that ball
out again and slurping it up again. So that's that's
something definitely the elephant transformed its environment in order to
create this kind of groovy canteen. Wow. And yeah, and
that's an elephant using like a level two artifact, right right. Um.
(12:01):
I mentioned earlier about you know, how captivity can change
the level of tool use involved. We see that, um
with the Capucian monkeys. Um, if you've watched if you
watched Life, the awesome Discovery slash BBC show, there's you know,
great scenes in that and and various other documentaries that
show these these guys taking rocks and using them to
(12:21):
bust open nuts so they can eat the inside. And
they're very selective about their rocks, right, it's no no
rock will do right, and it takes them a while
to learn how to do it, like they're there are
also lots of cool you know, generally you see lots
of footage of the younger ones trying to do it
and just failing miserably, like picking the wrong stones, you know,
et cetera. But uh, but the cool thing is that
(12:44):
they can actually they've actually been seen a craft tools
and captivity instead of because the rock that they're beating
the nutwi is just that's a nature of fact, but
ends captivity. Sometimes they make artifacts. They've been seen to
sticking two pieces of straw together to make a longer
probe to reach things that are outside of the cage.
So so, so that's really cool. Again, you know, you captivity, boredom, invention,
(13:09):
creative mayhem, as in the case with actually again with
the octopive. I know there have been a couple of
different instances in captivity that they've done some stuff, And
one was at the Sona Santa Monica Pire Aquarium. There
was a female California two spotted octopus who swam to
the top of her tank, disassembled the valve with her arm,
and then released two hundred gallons of seawater into nearby
(13:31):
exhibits and offices. Yeah, so I mean that's pretty crazy. Yeah,
And then I understand the same octopus stole somebody's wallet,
um made a xerox of their their driver's license, and
was able to skip the entire state. Like I think
they're still living in Nevada. Yeah I heard that too,
but actually you say that, and it did make me think, like,
(13:53):
what's going on in the octopus mind there. I mean,
do you think that they're swimming around going, you know what?
I need to show all these other sea creatures who's
the boss here and what sort of force I have
and the power that I have in this aquarium. I'm
going to flood this place. O. Man, It's like a
like rock Stars trashing a hotel room. Yeah, totally, and
that's what I like. Pretty great. There was another one
(14:16):
UM who actually disassembled a robot. There was a Yeah,
there's this little robot puttering around the aquarium. I don't
know why they put it in there, but piece by
piece it was. That is awesome. Yeah. I've seen some
cool videos of polar bears um going and they have
these like ice flow robots. I posted on the Facebook
A want back. But they have like these little robots
(14:36):
that are disguised just like chunks of ice and they
either flowed or they sort of crawl around on the ice.
But polar bears, you know, there's not I guess there's
not a lot to do. They're curious animals. They'll see
this man end up just tearing it to pieces. Of
course they're like, what is this? I need to help
bear come into my realm and and I think it's
going to get away. That's right, I'll show you. Um.
(14:57):
But again, octopy really smart creatures obviously, And another really
cool thing about them is that they use their section
comps like pincers like we do. And they have so
many neurons actually firing in their arms and and neuron
neuron power. I guess you could say that they can
take every single one of those suckers and make them pincers,
(15:19):
which just really like blows our ability out of the
water there no pun intended. But a lot of this
is because these guys have like their ganglia is is
uh is, all grouped together, whereas with the molluskin nervous
system in other creatures like clams, for instance, they're all
over the place. They're widely dispersed. But you don't see
(15:41):
clams using a lot of tools. No, no, they don't. Sorry,
they might have a lovely pearl, but that's about it. Um.
But that's the cool thing about the octopia that they
do have this group of ganglia so to speak, and
that gives them the edge over other cephalodes I suppose. Now,
another interesting critter in the ocean that's been known to
(16:01):
use tools, as of course the dolphin, which comes as
less a surprise because everybody's on the you know, especially
thanks to John c. Lily. I was about to say, like, like,
I have to have to say like this again to
to to remind people who may or may not have
heard the podcast that we did on the Strange Life
Lives of Scientists. Uh. John cy Lily worked extensively with dolphins,
(16:25):
and what we know is that dolphins can actually court
other humans given the right circumstances. Yeah. He uh, I
mean he's he's one of them. You really have to
trace the whole dolphin mania and our in a lot
of our cultural respect for dolphins back to this guy,
though he definitely had some made some very questionable choices
in his research. Um. But but yeah, so to today,
(16:46):
to you know, the post Flipper era, it comes as
no surprise that, yeah, dolphins can use tools. Yeah, of
course they can court us. That can flash us, you know,
the flashes of the oceans. Um. But the tool that
they use is really cool yeah sponges right, yeah, which
they used to stir the ocean bottom sand uh, to
uncover and disorient prey. Yeah. And the really cool thing
(17:09):
about this is that researchers have found that it's a
hunting technique that originated in a single female and has
passed from mother to daughter. Yeah, And what they did
is they analyze the mitochondrial DNA, which is the DNA
passed down by females, and they found that that the
thirteen spongers and one d seventy two non spongers. They
found the trait appeared to be passed on mostly within
(17:30):
a single family line and from mother to daughter, and
that sponging most likely originated in a recent ancestor. So
this is sort of a new thing for them. Um,
And they say, well, okay, why what about the males
have coming? This isn't happening with them. And apparently they
hypothesized that male bottlenose dolphins tend to form close bonds
(17:50):
with other males and so those alliances aren't really seated
to seabed foraging since it's time consuming and it's a
solitary activity. I don't That seems kind a weak sauce
to me in terms of a theory, but well, it
reminds me a little bit of the the the cheetahs
that bring down ostriches and uh that it's covered in
(18:11):
one of the episodes of life where uh, since it's
only only the males doing it, Uh, it's not getting
passed on because the male cheatahs are not involved in
uh in rearing and and and raising of yawns. So
so yeah, it's interesting to think. It's like it's one
thing to develop to be able to to to develop
tool use, but you've got to be able to pass
(18:32):
it on. It's got to you know, because I guess
conceive what you could have have an animal out there
that that learns to use a tool, But is it
is it using it a is it using it a lot?
And be is it taking that and passing it on
to the next generation to where it becomes like standard practice,
right like you seem like you do. Another example of
being in captivity is I remember working at the zoo
(18:54):
um and finding out that the orangutans there were uh
trying to get out of the enclosure. Of course, as
they all tried to all the primates do, and the
first generation would just get electrocuted from the wire right,
And they did that, I don't know, maybe like five times,
and they said, okay, I'm gonna stop. The second generation. Uh,
they actually taught them like the wires hot be careful
(19:16):
and started, and so they started to try to build
things to get over the fence, and they were unsuccessful.
And then the third generation again looked at all of
this going on and realized that they could actually like
short the wire by jumping on the I guess like
a tree, I can't remember exactly what it was, and
(19:36):
so they could then escape the enclosure that way. So
there you go. Yeah, there's a there's a there's a
really interesting recent radio Lab episode that dealt would a
again with the orangutanks trying to escape their their enclosure.
And this one involved like an orangutank that was apparently
using a little piece of metal to pick a lock.
So it's it's it's incredible what the higher primates can
(20:00):
it up to. Other examples from the Animal Kingdom, you
have gorillas that's sometimes use walking sticks. Then they'll use
them to test the depth of water to keep their
balance as they cross, which is really cool looking and
I've seen that before. If you go to YouTube you
can probably find it, especially when they take it and
they shake it at the younger gorillas and tell them
to to get off their lawn. Um, you have a
(20:23):
chimpanzees using clubs. There was another interesting recent case where
a chimpanzee to zoo was like stockpiling rocks to throw
because it was old and grumpy, apparently to throw at
the zoo visitors. I can advance planning, right, I mean,
if you're going to use as a projectile, Yeah, there's
some thought that needs to go in there, poor zoo goers. Um.
(20:47):
And of course we mentioned chimps foraging um and uh
and and also a macaques using rocks to bust open nuts. Um.
Some more interesting examples, This was one I had never
heard of before, but up naked mole rats crafting masks.
And first of all, I love naked mole rats, Like
they're just an amazing animal. If you get to see
(21:07):
some of the zoo, definitely see them because they're like
they're living in like a hive environment. There's they're naked,
they're funny looking, they walk backwards, they there's just they're
just a complete wind as far as as the animals go.
But so but they have these powerful protruding teeth that
they used to burrow, and their lips are on the
inside like behind their teeth and all. Um. Yeah, yeah,
(21:32):
they're they're really crazy looking. And and and since they're naked,
they all have to sleep in big piles to keep
their body heat. Going on, I'm gonna make a joke there,
but but they but to keep their lungs U up clear.
Some of the scientists have observed the mole rats um
placing wood shavings behind their teeth in front of those
(21:53):
lips to create like a basically a simple mask. I mean,
it doesn't look you know, when I say mole rats
with ask, it may sound like they're creating like big
tribal uh you know, masks. It's not really the case.
But they're they're crudely using uh you know, little wood
shavings to help protect their face. So yeah, I read
about that. That is pretty cool. And and then with humans,
of course, our tool uses just all over the place
(22:15):
and has been like just an important part of our
our evolution. Like their studies that have that that relate
to dart throwing, like all the like, our risks are
really complicated. Um in the dart throwing motion, is that
the scenario that that that is getting a fair amount
of study because the evolution of these amazing risks we
(22:36):
have apparently has a lot to do with our ability
to use tools. So the dart throwing is this like, Uh,
did this come with the advent of pubs? Yes, ancient
caveman pubs where where they they learned to to brew
a hard cider and uh, and then they started a
plain dark All right, you'd have to establish your prowess
with the darts, and therefore we have a nice complicated
(22:59):
risk to think. No, that's completely not true. But hey,
speaking of creatures developing things like uh, pubs and hard cider,
we have some listener mail uh and it is what
I have here is some stuff related to our recent
podcast on animal junkies or Junkies the Animal Kingdom, which
(23:22):
received a fair amount of feedback. We're not able to
read everything, but the first one, this one I was
really excited to get because it comes from Jana Uh
in Newfoundland, Canada. Um, and we're I spent part of
my childhood. I mentioned mentioned this in in the podcast
when we're talking about mooses or moose mooses. Yeah, she says, Hello,
(23:44):
I'm from rural Newfoundland, Canada. First of all, I'm glad
to hear you lived here once. Plus I would like
to second what you said about about the moose mooses here. Sorry,
we have hundreds of moose accidents a year here and
some of these often result in death, which is always
sad and unnecessary. The moose come out out to the
highway to lick the salt on the road, that is
(24:04):
that's put on the road to reduce ice. Many people
here have have started a group to get the government
to allow more moose hunting license if they're extremely overpopulated,
uh and put up moose fences along the main highway
to reduce accidents. Just thought this is another cool but
sad junkie story. That's interesting. Yeah, because you have it's twofold.
You have the the the moose coming in to eat
(24:25):
the salt and then uh becoming a pest to uh
well becoming a pest. Two drivers though, I guess you
could say the drivers of the pest and also where
you know they're the ones that are responsible for the overpopulation.
But anyway, it's great to hear from somebody in Newfoundland
your Yeah. Um. We also heard from um um a
(24:48):
listener by the name of Craig who grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
and uh he let us know that he used to
live in a neighborhood called Bramblewood, so called because of
a very large BlackBerry bramble and uh uh they weren't
apparently weren't able to pick all of the blackberries, so
they said, uh says the berries we couldn't pick would
ferm it in the summer sun and seem to attract
(25:09):
animals from all over. As the more rotten the fruit got,
the more birds you would see sluggishly hopping around the
ground or just collapsed in a heap on a branch.
The rodents got in on the act as well, and
it was quite a sight to see startled squirrels leaping
for branches and missing. All This uh concentration of slow
moving prey eventually attractive snakes, and by the end of
BlackBerry season you could always find several snakes lying beneath
(25:32):
the brambles with bulges in their bodies. It's hard to
tell if a snake is drunk, but if you were
going to uh going to ever get one to consume alcohol,
I suppose this would have to have been the way.
So that was I love that because we obviously Atlantas
in the South and we know those those uh warm,
crazy hot summers and I can just imagine all of
(25:53):
these creatures laying around, you know, drunk on their on
their BlackBerry brambles and getting eaten by snakes. It's happened
to friends of mine, doesn't Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say
it has like a very like Faulkner esque ring in
the Animal Kingdom and uh and then on this is
actually on our Facebook page, Oe. We had to listen
(26:13):
by the name of Cynthia, who was inspired by your
mention of how cat nip or the nip uma is
sometimes uh or at least used to be used as
a t for humans. So she says, quote, thanks to
the Animal a Junkie's podcast, I brewed some catnip tea
and gave it to my kiddies yesterday with some pretty
excellent results. I would definitely be doing that again. Thanks
(26:34):
for the idea. I love the podcast, and so I
had to get more details on that. So I asked
a few questions and she she provided these details. She says, well,
I deluded the t two to one because I didn't
want to overdo it, so they didn't finish all of
the deluded stuff. I saved the rest for next time,
but I left the tea cup with the dregs in
it on the ground as well, and that was gone
(26:54):
in a couple of seconds. Then there were just two
cats rubbing their faces on the water bowl and around it.
You gotta love it. Yeah, yeah, I have to say
that listeners don't try this at home. Kids, don't try
this home because I know that Cynthia is an expert
key brewer. Yeah, yeah, don't don't. Yeah, this is and
this is an experiment carried off vira own free will.
We did not contradate. We didn't at all. Yeah, we
(27:15):
just don't want to be responsible for any uh you know,
weird key related um epidemics out there, marauding cats, gangs
of marauding cats. Yeah. So there you have it. If
you have any thing to add about animal john kies,
about animal tool users, or even like your own children
learning to use tools. I find that fascinating as well. Um,
(27:37):
then then you know, let us know. You can find
us on Facebook and Twitter is Blow the Mind and
we frequently update that with all sorts of cool links
to how stuff works content, as well as content from
elsewhere around the web, and you can always drop us
a line at Blow the Mind at House to forks
dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
(28:00):
Is that how stuff works dot com. To learn more
about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the
upper right corner of our homepage. The How Stuff Works
iPhone app has a RYE. Download it today on iTunes
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,
what is this thing that you have constructed on your
side of the desk? Um, it's I guess it's kind
of a note holder, and it's it's a made out
(00:27):
of some sort of box that I found, and it's
got paper clips that apparently aren't doing anything, but it
is serving a purpose and a clothes pin apparently. Oh
that's right. Well, I don't know where you got a
clothes pin in the office, but well, some of us
like to save energy. You are laundry here and floor balcony,
we get a lot of wind out there. Yeah exactly, Yeah.
(00:48):
I Um, I engaged in a bit of this is
of course tool use that you're engaging in here, yes,
and uh and I actually engaged in a little bit
of this during our recent um great freeze that hit
Atlanta Seddon Snowmageddon as some people call it. And uh,
the situation was that we kept making hot tea because
that was all we could basically, you know, it's just like,
(01:10):
let's just what are we gonna do? Now, let's make
hot tea? What we're gonna do? Now, let's play scrabble
and let's make hot tea. And that was like, you know,
four days of being trapped inside doing that, and our
T ball was like the chain was broken on it.
So ended up like constructing something where I took like
the T ball and then I used some like some
like butcher twine. Is a book called butter twine, Yes, yes,
(01:31):
and uh, and like I used that to attach it
to to like a metal skewer and uh and created
a system of being of moving the T ball in
and out of the the boiling kettle. So um wow,
So I have to ask you, did you make so
much tea that you guys broke it and then you
needed to resort to tool using behavior. Yes, so you
found out a little something about yourself during Snowmageddon. Yeah,
(01:53):
I think I think I did. And it's it's interesting
as we get into this and we start talking about
tool use in the animal kingdom, you do see that
captivity and uh, and we'll often bring out, um, the
more innovative side of many animals. An animal that is
not necessarily a tool user may become one in captivity.
Uh well, and one that is capable of only say,
(02:14):
like a very low level tool use is sometimes capable
of higher level tool use if they're locked in a zoo. Okay,
so boredom is the mother of invention, is what I'm hearing. Yes,
also the mother of of injury. But but, but but
luckily nothing went wrong with the the the t H
ball invention that I came up with. So let's um,
(02:37):
let's talk about tool use then. Yeah? Okay, so I
guess we we normally think about tool use uh in primates,
right and goodall witnessing a single blade of grass being
stuck down into a termite mound and then a lovely
snack emerging. Yeah, or just like you know, two thousand
and one to Space Odyssey, monkeys picking up bones beating
other monkeys on the head because weapons are ultimately ultimately tools,
(03:01):
right right, But I think that we we we don't
necessarily look to other animals and think, oh, well, I
bet that they're an extraordinary tool user, right, But in
fact they are. And my favorite example is the octopus. Actually,
oh yeah, yeah, this one is is really cool? Now,
this is uh an octopus? As we all know, does
(03:21):
not have a a shell. There are various cephalopots that do.
But the octopus depends on other methods of survival camouflage,
of shape changing basically and uh and and being able
to sort of creeper around and not draw a lout
of attention to itself. Yeah. But what do you do
if you've got across the sea floor and there's nothing
to camouflage yourself against and I don't know, you've got
(03:42):
another mile to go. Well, you could, I guess you could.
If you could evolve, you could slowly develop some sort
of a protective coating through uh, you know, through you know,
one dead octopus after another dead octopus, until um, you
end up you know, selecting that octopus that has a
harder shell. Right, Yeah, yeah, I guess you could. Or
in the short term, if you lived in Indonesia and
(04:05):
you are an octopus and you saw a coconut on
the bottom of the sea floor, you could take the
two halves of it and you could crawl into it
when you needed to and reassemble it. And no one
would be the wiser, right, They'd be like, oh gosh,
that that's not prey, that's just a stupid coconut, and
I love that. I love that octopus is like, you
(04:27):
know what this this is something that I can obscure
myself in nobody's gonna know, and now I can resume
my journey. Wow, that's really incredible. It's um and and
and and it just goes to show that, I mean,
all tool use really kind of close us into something
to some serious cognition going on. Yeah, and an octopier
pretty smart. As one of the reasons I me personally,
(04:50):
I can't really eat them uh in sushi anymore. I
just you know, I hear they're as smart as cats,
you know, from various things. And then I look at
my cat and I'm like, I wouldn't needt my cat
on a californ in your role or yeah, if I
did eat seafood, I have to say, just just the
look of them, I don't know, it just seems it
seems like a frightening proposition to have that in my mouth.
But what I what I think is so cool too
(05:10):
about this coke in that example is it totally reminded
me of this invention. It's in Japan and have you
ever seen this? It's this fold up coke machine. Okay, well,
it's but I do really want to do an episode
about amazing vending machines sometimes, so do all right, Okay,
there's actually there's plenty of them, listeners. I think you
(05:31):
wink wink, I think you might know we're talking about here.
But this I love the idea of this, but it's
super silly. I mean, it's flat packed, looks like a
coke machine. When you unpack it, you hip yourself in
it and then lo and behold you look like a
plastic vending machine. So what happens when people put money
into you or reaching to you for snacks? You have
several choices in response. But I was thinking, you know
(05:53):
that the octopus is is actually much more clever than
us humans in trying to camouflage themselves on the streets,
so to speak. Well, that's awesome. It's um, we're researching
about this and a lot of tool use um. When
it comes to you know, the brain comes down to
something uh that we call body scheme schema schema. Yeah,
(06:15):
and uh and this is uh, this idea has been
around for about a hundred years and it's and it's
the idea that our brains are just constantly processing visual
tactile feedback about what our bodies are doing and how
they're positioned, and you you create these different sort of
versions of ourselves, you know. So like I like to
think of it in terms of like martial arts movies,
(06:35):
where like somebody goes into say like drunken monkey stance
or or tiger stance, you know. But but we have
but as tool users, we have a well as humans,
we would have other stances like oh my goodness, don't
hit me in the face of that ball stance or
um or I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna chase the
cat stands. That those you know, different body positions that
(06:55):
are aimed towards particular tasks. But when you're throw in
tools and you get all these differ different additional positions,
you get like grumpy snow shoveler stance or intense polentis
stir stands, toothbrusher stands. Don't forget rosota stands, the zota stands.
It's that the other one that involves a lot of stirring. Yeah,
I just know I'll be asked to stir something and
(07:16):
and then I just I lose all memory of what
I'm stirring. It's so it takes so long, delicious when
it's done, but it's just it's quite quite an effort.
But but anyway, um, so our brains are constantly you know, working,
working this out, and it's it's it's definitely an instance
of these tools becoming an extension of our bodies. They're
(07:39):
a part of our body. Scam there, they become part
of who we are. You know, we were used to
hearing about this. One's like you hear people talking about
like swordsmanship or golf, you know, and you hear it's like, oh,
well you need to make the club an extension of
your arm. Yeah, be one with the sword or something,
you know. And that's exactly what's going on. Like the
more you're you're able to, the better you are using
(08:01):
a tool, the more the brain identifies it as a
part of yourself, right right. And actually they were us
on a study from the National Institute of Health on
tool use tasks for toddlers, and they were talking about
how toddlers um that we're using tools to act on themselves,
like feed themselves, for instance. We're picking up on that
and using that a lot more than externally. In other words,
(08:22):
like you know, feeding Elmo some keenoir or something. Um.
And so you do you see that that idea of
it being an extension of yourself right there in that example,
and that we automatically say, Okay, I'm a little toddler
brain and I'm trying to figure this out for myself,
and here's my spoon. Um. But you know, Elmo is
not going to get his food until much later. But
(08:46):
that brings me to this point. You know, we should
probably talk exactly about what tool use is. I mean,
you know, it seems pretty obvious, but it's really defined
as providing no benefit until they're used for a very
specific purpose. So with animals, what's really cool about that
is that it shows that the animal is capable of
pre planning, advanced planning. Yeah, it's not just an animal, say,
(09:09):
picking up a stick and beating random things with it.
It's there's no purpose to that. So's that's not tool used. Now,
something like that night develop into tool use in time.
But but yeah, there's got to be a purpose in mind.
That's right. We're saying a lot of cogitation going on.
Cogitation party, um, and they're actually um, I've read that
(09:31):
they're they're basically two types of tools. There is a
what is good. Well, first, there's something called an artifact, right,
An artifact is something that is crafted. For example, if
a chimp, you know, like I say, we're all using
like we used to seeing images of like a chimp
sticking a poking a stick down a termite hole and
coming up with termites to look off. Well, they've been
(09:54):
Chimps have been known to chew the termite fishing stick
so that it fits better into the holes. So they're
creating an artific fact. Now, if they had not used
their mouths to to alter it, they would have what
is sometimes called a nature fact, which is kind of
like just a found object tool like oh, here's a stick,
I'll pick it up, I'll get some bugs on it
and eat the bugs off the stick, but I haven't
(10:15):
changed the stick. And then when it comes to these
different artifacts, they're basically four levels. Uh. There is reduction
where you reduce the mass of a functional object, like
take the stick, choose something off of it, Now you
can use it. Then there's conjunction where you combine two
or more units to make a tool. An example of
this where it would be you take like looking at
(10:36):
early humans, Like you take a stone, sharpen it into something,
and then you attach it to a stick to make
a spear. Ghammo, you have a conjunction tool, and then
they're the third level replica replication. This would be where
it's conjunction but with two or more similar units. So
if you made a two headed spear, you know, you're, you're, you're.
You have two different, three different things going on there,
(10:58):
and then there's a linkage. And this is the most
more complicated form. And this is where you have physically
distinct forms used in combination. And that would be like
if you made a bow and you made an arrow.
Bow and arrow are both rather different, but together you
have a a single um tool that's very useful to
early hunters. Okay, actually that was making me think about elephants. Um.
(11:20):
I know that in South Africa, it was observed that
an elephant, after digging a hole and drinking water and
presumably expitting that water back in, stripped bark from a
nearby tree and then chewed it into a large ball,
so transforming it, and then plug the hole and covered
it with sand, So essentially that the elephant was making
(11:41):
m a canteen. Yeah, and then taking that that ball
out again and slurping it up again. So that's that's
something definitely the elephant transformed its environment in order to
create this kind of groovy canteen. Wow. And yeah, and
that's an elephant using like a level two artifact, right right. Um.
(12:01):
I mentioned earlier about you know, how captivity can change
the level of tool use involved. We see that, um
with the Capucian monkeys. Um, if you've watched if you
watched Life, the awesome Discovery slash BBC show, there's you know,
great scenes in that and and various other documentaries that
show these these guys taking rocks and using them to
(12:21):
bust open nuts so they can eat the inside. And
they're very selective about their rocks, right, it's no no
rock will do right, and it takes them a while
to learn how to do it, like they're there are
also lots of cool you know, generally you see lots
of footage of the younger ones trying to do it
and just failing miserably, like picking the wrong stones, you know,
et cetera. But uh, but the cool thing is that
(12:44):
they can actually they've actually been seen a craft tools
and captivity instead of because the rock that they're beating
the nutwi is just that's a nature of fact, but
ends captivity. Sometimes they make artifacts. They've been seen to
sticking two pieces of straw together to make a longer
probe to reach things that are outside of the cage.
So so, so that's really cool. Again, you know, you captivity, boredom, invention,
(13:09):
creative mayhem, as in the case with actually again with
the octopive. I know there have been a couple of
different instances in captivity that they've done some stuff, And
one was at the Sona Santa Monica Pire Aquarium. There
was a female California two spotted octopus who swam to
the top of her tank, disassembled the valve with her arm,
and then released two hundred gallons of seawater into nearby
(13:31):
exhibits and offices. Yeah, so I mean that's pretty crazy. Yeah,
And then I understand the same octopus stole somebody's wallet,
um made a xerox of their their driver's license, and
was able to skip the entire state. Like I think
they're still living in Nevada. Yeah I heard that too,
but actually you say that, and it did make me think, like,
(13:53):
what's going on in the octopus mind there. I mean,
do you think that they're swimming around going, you know what?
I need to show all these other sea creatures who's
the boss here and what sort of force I have
and the power that I have in this aquarium. I'm
going to flood this place. O. Man, It's like a
like rock Stars trashing a hotel room. Yeah, totally, and
that's what I like. Pretty great. There was another one
(14:16):
UM who actually disassembled a robot. There was a Yeah,
there's this little robot puttering around the aquarium. I don't
know why they put it in there, but piece by
piece it was. That is awesome. Yeah. I've seen some
cool videos of polar bears um going and they have
these like ice flow robots. I posted on the Facebook
A want back. But they have like these little robots
(14:36):
that are disguised just like chunks of ice and they
either flowed or they sort of crawl around on the ice.
But polar bears, you know, there's not I guess there's
not a lot to do. They're curious animals. They'll see
this man end up just tearing it to pieces. Of
course they're like, what is this? I need to help
bear come into my realm and and I think it's
going to get away. That's right, I'll show you. Um.
(14:57):
But again, octopy really smart creatures obviously, And another really
cool thing about them is that they use their section
comps like pincers like we do. And they have so
many neurons actually firing in their arms and and neuron
neuron power. I guess you could say that they can
take every single one of those suckers and make them pincers,
(15:19):
which just really like blows our ability out of the
water there no pun intended. But a lot of this
is because these guys have like their ganglia is is
uh is, all grouped together, whereas with the molluskin nervous
system in other creatures like clams, for instance, they're all
over the place. They're widely dispersed. But you don't see
(15:41):
clams using a lot of tools. No, no, they don't. Sorry,
they might have a lovely pearl, but that's about it. Um.
But that's the cool thing about the octopia that they
do have this group of ganglia so to speak, and
that gives them the edge over other cephalodes I suppose. Now,
another interesting critter in the ocean that's been known to
(16:01):
use tools, as of course the dolphin, which comes as
less a surprise because everybody's on the you know, especially
thanks to John c. Lily. I was about to say, like, like,
I have to have to say like this again to
to to remind people who may or may not have
heard the podcast that we did on the Strange Life
Lives of Scientists. Uh. John cy Lily worked extensively with dolphins,
(16:25):
and what we know is that dolphins can actually court
other humans given the right circumstances. Yeah. He uh, I
mean he's he's one of them. You really have to
trace the whole dolphin mania and our in a lot
of our cultural respect for dolphins back to this guy,
though he definitely had some made some very questionable choices
in his research. Um. But but yeah, so to today,
(16:46):
to you know, the post Flipper era, it comes as
no surprise that, yeah, dolphins can use tools. Yeah, of
course they can court us. That can flash us, you know,
the flashes of the oceans. Um. But the tool that
they use is really cool yeah sponges right, yeah, which
they used to stir the ocean bottom sand uh, to
uncover and disorient prey. Yeah. And the really cool thing
(17:09):
about this is that researchers have found that it's a
hunting technique that originated in a single female and has
passed from mother to daughter. Yeah, And what they did
is they analyze the mitochondrial DNA, which is the DNA
passed down by females, and they found that that the
thirteen spongers and one d seventy two non spongers. They
found the trait appeared to be passed on mostly within
(17:30):
a single family line and from mother to daughter, and
that sponging most likely originated in a recent ancestor. So
this is sort of a new thing for them. Um,
And they say, well, okay, why what about the males
have coming? This isn't happening with them. And apparently they
hypothesized that male bottlenose dolphins tend to form close bonds
(17:50):
with other males and so those alliances aren't really seated
to seabed foraging since it's time consuming and it's a
solitary activity. I don't That seems kind a weak sauce
to me in terms of a theory, but well, it
reminds me a little bit of the the the cheetahs
that bring down ostriches and uh that it's covered in
(18:11):
one of the episodes of life where uh, since it's
only only the males doing it, Uh, it's not getting
passed on because the male cheatahs are not involved in
uh in rearing and and and raising of yawns. So
so yeah, it's interesting to think. It's like it's one
thing to develop to be able to to to develop
tool use, but you've got to be able to pass
(18:32):
it on. It's got to you know, because I guess
conceive what you could have have an animal out there
that that learns to use a tool, But is it
is it using it a is it using it a lot?
And be is it taking that and passing it on
to the next generation to where it becomes like standard practice,
right like you seem like you do. Another example of
being in captivity is I remember working at the zoo
(18:54):
um and finding out that the orangutans there were uh
trying to get out of the enclosure. Of course, as
they all tried to all the primates do, and the
first generation would just get electrocuted from the wire right,
And they did that, I don't know, maybe like five times,
and they said, okay, I'm gonna stop. The second generation. Uh,
they actually taught them like the wires hot be careful
(19:16):
and started, and so they started to try to build
things to get over the fence, and they were unsuccessful.
And then the third generation again looked at all of
this going on and realized that they could actually like
short the wire by jumping on the I guess like
a tree, I can't remember exactly what it was, and
(19:36):
so they could then escape the enclosure that way. So
there you go. Yeah, there's a there's a there's a
really interesting recent radio Lab episode that dealt would a
again with the orangutanks trying to escape their their enclosure.
And this one involved like an orangutank that was apparently
using a little piece of metal to pick a lock.
So it's it's it's incredible what the higher primates can
(20:00):
it up to. Other examples from the Animal Kingdom, you
have gorillas that's sometimes use walking sticks. Then they'll use
them to test the depth of water to keep their
balance as they cross, which is really cool looking and
I've seen that before. If you go to YouTube you
can probably find it, especially when they take it and
they shake it at the younger gorillas and tell them
to to get off their lawn. Um, you have a
(20:23):
chimpanzees using clubs. There was another interesting recent case where
a chimpanzee to zoo was like stockpiling rocks to throw
because it was old and grumpy, apparently to throw at
the zoo visitors. I can advance planning, right, I mean,
if you're going to use as a projectile, Yeah, there's
some thought that needs to go in there, poor zoo goers. Um.
(20:47):
And of course we mentioned chimps foraging um and uh
and and also a macaques using rocks to bust open nuts. Um.
Some more interesting examples, This was one I had never
heard of before, but up naked mole rats crafting masks.
And first of all, I love naked mole rats, Like
they're just an amazing animal. If you get to see
(21:07):
some of the zoo, definitely see them because they're like
they're living in like a hive environment. There's they're naked,
they're funny looking, they walk backwards, they there's just they're
just a complete wind as far as as the animals go.
But so but they have these powerful protruding teeth that
they used to burrow, and their lips are on the
inside like behind their teeth and all. Um. Yeah, yeah,
(21:32):
they're they're really crazy looking. And and and since they're naked,
they all have to sleep in big piles to keep
their body heat. Going on, I'm gonna make a joke there,
but but they but to keep their lungs U up clear.
Some of the scientists have observed the mole rats um
placing wood shavings behind their teeth in front of those
(21:53):
lips to create like a basically a simple mask. I mean,
it doesn't look you know, when I say mole rats
with ask, it may sound like they're creating like big
tribal uh you know, masks. It's not really the case.
But they're they're crudely using uh you know, little wood
shavings to help protect their face. So yeah, I read
about that. That is pretty cool. And and then with humans,
of course, our tool uses just all over the place
(22:15):
and has been like just an important part of our
our evolution. Like their studies that have that that relate
to dart throwing, like all the like, our risks are
really complicated. Um in the dart throwing motion, is that
the scenario that that that is getting a fair amount
of study because the evolution of these amazing risks we
(22:36):
have apparently has a lot to do with our ability
to use tools. So the dart throwing is this like, Uh,
did this come with the advent of pubs? Yes, ancient
caveman pubs where where they they learned to to brew
a hard cider and uh, and then they started a
plain dark All right, you'd have to establish your prowess
with the darts, and therefore we have a nice complicated
(22:59):
risk to think. No, that's completely not true. But hey,
speaking of creatures developing things like uh, pubs and hard cider,
we have some listener mail uh and it is what
I have here is some stuff related to our recent
podcast on animal junkies or Junkies the Animal Kingdom, which
(23:22):
received a fair amount of feedback. We're not able to
read everything, but the first one, this one I was
really excited to get because it comes from Jana Uh
in Newfoundland, Canada. Um, and we're I spent part of
my childhood. I mentioned mentioned this in in the podcast
when we're talking about mooses or moose mooses. Yeah, she says, Hello,
(23:44):
I'm from rural Newfoundland, Canada. First of all, I'm glad
to hear you lived here once. Plus I would like
to second what you said about about the moose mooses here. Sorry,
we have hundreds of moose accidents a year here and
some of these often result in death, which is always
sad and unnecessary. The moose come out out to the
highway to lick the salt on the road, that is
(24:04):
that's put on the road to reduce ice. Many people
here have have started a group to get the government
to allow more moose hunting license if they're extremely overpopulated,
uh and put up moose fences along the main highway
to reduce accidents. Just thought this is another cool but
sad junkie story. That's interesting. Yeah, because you have it's twofold.
You have the the the moose coming in to eat
(24:25):
the salt and then uh becoming a pest to uh
well becoming a pest. Two drivers though, I guess you
could say the drivers of the pest and also where
you know they're the ones that are responsible for the overpopulation.
But anyway, it's great to hear from somebody in Newfoundland
your Yeah. Um. We also heard from um um a
(24:48):
listener by the name of Craig who grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
and uh he let us know that he used to
live in a neighborhood called Bramblewood, so called because of
a very large BlackBerry bramble and uh uh they weren't
apparently weren't able to pick all of the blackberries, so
they said, uh says the berries we couldn't pick would
ferm it in the summer sun and seem to attract
(25:09):
animals from all over. As the more rotten the fruit got,
the more birds you would see sluggishly hopping around the
ground or just collapsed in a heap on a branch.
The rodents got in on the act as well, and
it was quite a sight to see startled squirrels leaping
for branches and missing. All This uh concentration of slow
moving prey eventually attractive snakes, and by the end of
BlackBerry season you could always find several snakes lying beneath
(25:32):
the brambles with bulges in their bodies. It's hard to
tell if a snake is drunk, but if you were
going to uh going to ever get one to consume alcohol,
I suppose this would have to have been the way.
So that was I love that because we obviously Atlantas
in the South and we know those those uh warm,
crazy hot summers and I can just imagine all of
(25:53):
these creatures laying around, you know, drunk on their on
their BlackBerry brambles and getting eaten by snakes. It's happened
to friends of mine, doesn't Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say
it has like a very like Faulkner esque ring in
the Animal Kingdom and uh and then on this is
actually on our Facebook page, Oe. We had to listen
(26:13):
by the name of Cynthia, who was inspired by your
mention of how cat nip or the nip uma is
sometimes uh or at least used to be used as
a t for humans. So she says, quote, thanks to
the Animal a Junkie's podcast, I brewed some catnip tea
and gave it to my kiddies yesterday with some pretty
excellent results. I would definitely be doing that again. Thanks
(26:34):
for the idea. I love the podcast, and so I
had to get more details on that. So I asked
a few questions and she she provided these details. She says, well,
I deluded the t two to one because I didn't
want to overdo it, so they didn't finish all of
the deluded stuff. I saved the rest for next time,
but I left the tea cup with the dregs in
it on the ground as well, and that was gone
(26:54):
in a couple of seconds. Then there were just two
cats rubbing their faces on the water bowl and around it.
You gotta love it. Yeah, yeah, I have to say
that listeners don't try this at home. Kids, don't try
this home because I know that Cynthia is an expert
key brewer. Yeah, yeah, don't don't. Yeah, this is and
this is an experiment carried off vira own free will.
We did not contradate. We didn't at all. Yeah, we
(27:15):
just don't want to be responsible for any uh you know,
weird key related um epidemics out there, marauding cats, gangs
of marauding cats. Yeah. So there you have it. If
you have any thing to add about animal john kies,
about animal tool users, or even like your own children
learning to use tools. I find that fascinating as well. Um,
(27:37):
then then you know, let us know. You can find
us on Facebook and Twitter is Blow the Mind and
we frequently update that with all sorts of cool links
to how stuff works content, as well as content from
elsewhere around the web, and you can always drop us
a line at Blow the Mind at House to forks
dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
(28:00):
Is that how stuff works dot com. To learn more
about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the
upper right corner of our homepage. The How Stuff Works
iPhone app has a RYE. Download it today on iTunes
Stuff To Blow Your Mind News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Lamb
Joe McCormick
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.