June 24, 2015 • 47 mins
Holly chats with archaeologists Patricia Capone and Diana Loren about Harvard's Indian College, the school's importance to Colonial history and the ongoing archaeology of Harvard Yard.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from housetop
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Holly from and I'm Tracy V. Wilson and uh. We
certainly reference archaeology all the time on the show, and
we talk about artifacts that have been on Earth and
(00:22):
sometimes discoveries that help explain our understandings of other times
and cultures, but we don't often get to actually speak
with the archaeologists involved. Just always, you know, we love
hearing from We have fans that are archaeologists that write
to us sometimes, but it's cool to actually get to
sit down and have a conversation with archaeologists. And I
was recently lucky enough to do just that. I had
(00:44):
to talk with two fabulous women who are archaeologists at
Harvard University and they're working on this really interesting ongoing
project with Harvard's Peabody Museum of Ethnology and Archaeology. So
this is another one of our recent collection of episodes.
You can tell it summertime, because Holly and I have
each had very is time off, So this is another
one of those episodes that Holly, you took You took
(01:06):
the reins on this one while I was away, and
so I am getting to experience it for the first
time along with all of our listeners. I love it
when it works out that way. It is it's kind
of fun to see. I know, for me, when you
do a project on your own, it's fun to kind
of see how that plays out, and it's kind of
like getting a little treat in addition to getting time off.
So tell us about who you talk to you. So,
(01:29):
in this first segment, I will introduce you to these
fabulous women who are Patricia Capone and Diana Lauren, and
they're going to share their stories on how they ended
up at Harvard and how they ended up working on
this dig that's actually exploring Harvard's colonial past. We're also
going to talk about Harvard's Indian College and how that
was established, uh and as well we're going to discuss
(01:51):
colonialism in the context of the school. Alrighty, So today
I have a super fun treat. We are going to
be talking to two curators from the Peabody Museum of
Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University. And so for our
(02:12):
listeners who love archaeology stories and or uh Native American history,
this one is really going to be a delight, like
a piece of delicious dessert cake, except in knowledge form. UM.
So I have Patricia Capone who goes by Trish and
she's the director of Repatriation and Research Services, and Diana Lauren,
who is Director of Academic Partnerships UH and they both
(02:34):
work as curators of an exhibit there at the Peabody
Museum UH called Digging Veritas. And most of our listeners
probably know, Harvard University is the oldest higher education institution
in the US. It was founded in sixteen thirty six,
so in many ways it's kind of like a living
time capsule of America's development, and these two women have
(02:55):
been part of a really fascinating project that combines archaeological
education him with historical education and Harvard's own pest. So, ladies,
welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here,
Thank you for having us. Absolutely we're psyched to be here. Yay.
So now, well, each of you, UM, and whoever wishes
(03:16):
to go first, may do so. Tell us a little
bit about yourself and kind of what you do as
a curator, and if you want to include it, how
you landed there. This is Trish UM and I began
excavating in Harvard Yard as a graduate student UM here
at the university, and I uh was under the wing
(03:40):
of the UM graduate student who was working on the
project for his thesis, John Stubbs. UM. I grew up
in the Boston area and was UM in part interested
in this particular story because of that, but also because
I'm interested in colonial amor Amica and cultural dynamics of
(04:03):
um that period in general. All right, Diana, it's your turn. Okay. Well,
I came to Harvard in after I finished my degree
in archaeology at Sindy Binghamton. And while I wasn't a
archaeologist as an undergrad, it's something I studied in graduate
school and focused on colonial America. So it was after
(04:24):
I had been here a while, knowing that the university
had previously done digs, including the one Trish was involved
with in Harvard Yard, I began to get interested. And
it was in this moment in two thousand five, where
Trish and I had the opportunity to start the project
and dig in the yard, I learned about the material
and intellectual history of the university. UH, and I have
to ask this question. It may be weird. I think
(04:46):
when a lot of people think of archaeology, they think of,
you know, really ancient kind of excavation stuff. What threw
you instead the colonial history? Well, I grew up in Philadelphia,
and UM, not to a to myself, but was around
in UM nineteen by centennial celebrations, which was huge in Philadelphia,
(05:07):
and from that point on just interesting colonial history and
the history of North America emerged out of those interests. Yeah,
and UM. For me, I had been mainly working previously
as a graduate student in the Southwest US, especially in
New Mexico and in colonial mission contexts there UM, which
(05:33):
were in many ways contrast to the kind of archaeology
taking place in New England, but also some um, really
intriguing similarities. Uh. Some differences included the missionization versus economic
colonization UM, and UH a number of other things that
(05:57):
I was interested in in kind of exploring as as comparisons.
In contrast, I would say, like Trish, I also worked
in for my dissertation in Cluneo contexts that weren't English,
they were Spanish and French. But then you know, coming
here and being here and learning about the work that's
(06:17):
been done at Harvard. The history of Harvard, you know,
trying to understand Quanto pass through all these different colonies
and different people intersecting in the seventeenth and eighteenth century
is just truly fascinating. Well, uh, going off of that,
will you guys give us a little bit of background
on Harvard's Indian College, because we're going to talk about
(06:38):
it a lot. And I know, I was surprised to
learn it really didn't have all that many students. I
think when you say the word college, you think of
a crowd of people, and that is not the case. Correct.
There were five students known to have um been connected
to the Indian College, and actually um four of them
(07:02):
are known to have resided there. Uh. One of them
was a little bit later in the eighteenth century, but um, yeah,
it's UM started as part of the Charter of sixteen fifty,
which committed UM Harvard College, uh in part to the
education of the English and Indian youth of this country
(07:25):
and knowledge and godliness on quoting from the sixteen fifty
charter there and that had been the result of a
collaboration from the English Society for the Propagation of the
Gospel in New England. They granted funds for Indian education
at Harvard UM, which came at a UH crucial time
(07:46):
for the college, which was beginning to struggle financially, and
UH later resulted in the building of the brick Um
Indian College Building self UM, which was the second educational
structure built as an educational structure at Harvard College. UM
(08:10):
anything else to add their Diana Well, I would say, UM,
I think that the Society for the Propagation of the
Gospel in New England that they had kept the university
or the college afloat at that time, because you know,
the college has established sixteen thirty six. Shortly after that,
they're going bankrupt and they need money to continue going.
(08:30):
And so since they're struggling financially, they looked to the
Society for funds, and the society says, that's fine, you
can keep going, but you need to dedicate the institution
not only to English students but also Native American students
to learn to come pure to ministers. Yeah, and this this,
(08:51):
I mean, this was in line with what the the
previous focus of Harvard College was to train UM young
men in Puritan ministry UM, but expanding it to become
UH an overtly, you know, proselytization, uh, mechanism was was
(09:14):
a new direction. And so I have to wonder what,
since we kind of know at that point the goals
for the Indian College, I have to wonder what the
goals for the young men who attended were. Were they
pretty much signed on or was this an option that
just seemed like, you know, they were either stuck kind
(09:34):
of into this idea or were they really enthusiastic about
being part of this project. I mean that kind of
information is somewhat lost in the archive. You know, we
talked about colonialism and colonialists contexts as these very complex
landscapes of colonialism happening, and different communities speaking to recover
(10:01):
or continued traditions or become something new. Whitney Saytrish, Yeah,
I guess I would say that the details of their
personal stories are not very well known at this point.
There's no fun clear whether the UM primary sources out
there yet to be discovered, will help inform on those
(10:21):
personal details. UM. Uh. The bit's a personal detail that
we do know is that UM the UM at least
a couple of the individuals Caleb Chisa Tamick in particular,
UM were uh the sons of leaders. And so the
(10:41):
notion that um, the leaders of the neighboring indigenous people
were uh coming to join this enterprise, you know, was
I think a weighty notion, and UM suggested that it
was in some way up positives perhaps honor. We're not
(11:04):
you know, we can't really necessarily project that, but UM,
and we don't know whether, uh, what the individuals themselves felt.
But the fact that the sons of prominent individuals were
um were the the ones the Indian College students. I
think it's a significant pattern. Um. They would have been
(11:25):
studying for many years prior to coming to the college
in preparatory school. Just to enter, they would have had
um to be fluent in a number of scholarly languages,
including Ancient Greek and Latin Hebrew. So UM. In addition
to you know, English not being a first language, this
(11:47):
was uh, you know, pretty major educational background that they
already arrived with. And so the project um that resulted
in the Digging Veritas exhibits. A really loved this because
it actually started as a class that students could take
and it continues as a class. Well, can you tell
(12:07):
us a little bit about that class and kind of
how that piece of curriculum came to be and how
it continues. Sure, so in two thousand five, the museum
received your calls from Massachusetts Hall, which is the place
of where the president resides on campus and it's the
oldest standing structure at that time. In two thousand five,
(12:31):
they were going to be doing some construction around the
building and they had received guidance from the local Historic
Commission saying, you know, you should get some archaeologists to
check around the building before you do construction to make
sure you don't impact any cultural resources. And then that
same year in two thousand five, and I don't know, Trish,
if you want to take over at this point. Yeah. Sure.
(12:55):
It was simultaneous with the commemoryation of the three fiftieth
anniversary of the Harvard Indian College. And um, uh, you know,
having some understanding of previous excavations in Harvard Yard, we
we knew that the location of the Indian College, the
(13:19):
satisical location of the Indian College was still not known
and um, and so we got to talking with some
of the interested um scholarly interests, community stakeholders, and so forth.
The Harvard University Native American program played a major role
(13:40):
in the commemoration of the Indian College and and UM
came to conceive of this potential public archaeology project that
UM would take the form of a Harvard class as
as had been UM Harvard classes had previously excavated in
Harvard Art in the nineteen eighties with John Stubbs UM,
(14:04):
but having this this one have the the additional facet
of a a focus on community archaeology and UM neighboring
Native American groups interests in the topic, as well as
the on campus UM Native American community and scholarly interests
in this UH. To this point, UM under studied topic.
(14:31):
So in two thousand and five it was really this
perfect moment for us to go forward and get the
support to dig in the yard and to teach it
as a class so that students could be invested in
investigating this history as well as contributing to the history
YEAH and the museum. The Piboty Museum was also at
(14:52):
the at that time exploring ways UM to involve students
in hands on learning settings and UM learning through material culture,
museum processes and UM the types of research that result
(15:13):
in museum collections themselves. So for students to have the
opportunity to UM you know, kind of start to finish,
engage in a research project and then UH take part
in the interpretation of the products of that research UM
and and then archiving them for posterity as part of
(15:34):
the museum collection. UH was embraced supported as a good
thing to experiment with. It's such a wonderful idea, although
it doesn't make me wonder how on earth do you
manage a dig site that is also part of a
busy and thriving campus. UM. It is the busiest part
of the campaign, it definitely is. So we have so
(15:56):
much support from the university and the museum to do
the work. We have the support of yard operations who
manage the day to day flow of activities in the yard,
as well as the landscaping crew, archives, etcetera. Just a
lot of people coming to the other to support the project.
So we can dig in this very public space and
(16:19):
do the work with the students there. You know, having
the project take place in that public space is an
opportunity for us to talk about the public about the
history of the university, the importance of the Indian College,
and the story about Indian education at Harvard, and that's
not a story that most people know about. Yeah, and
and I'd also like to credit the student's openness to
(16:44):
UM engaging in communicating the relevance of UM not only
this particular topic of the Indian College in Harvard history,
but UM the importance of of archaeology and cultural resources
under our feet UM UH broadly conceived is is just amazing.
And their willingness to UM UH really think of it
(17:09):
as a form of civic engagement and UM and you know,
be there with the public and and help guide the
public experience as their UH coming through the yard, you know,
either UM either as as as tourists or of you know,
just walking on their way to UM OUTSELLO students on
(17:31):
their way to class, or or UM other community members.
It's the students have really played such a key and
UH an excellent role in the public archaeology aspect. I
just want to add to that by think they're so
enthusiastic with engaging about with the public about the project
(17:51):
and the story that it just makes it a fantastic
project all about. So getting back to my chat with
(18:12):
Trich and Diana, UH lateies are next going to talk
about some pretty significant fines that have been made by
students participating in this dig at Harvard Yard. And then
we're going to talk a little bit about why they're
so little information about the building that housed the Indian College,
because well, it's part of Harvard's history. There's a lot
of gaps in the knowledge there. Uh, And we're gonna
talk a little bit about everyone's favorite topic, which is
(18:34):
food and some of the more rebellious pursuits of the
colleges students. So then in two thousand nine, uh, this
project uncovered a rather important trench. Can you tell us
sort of about that trench and it's significance and and
what you found in it. So into down nine we
(18:57):
had on previous years, I should say, we were excavating
in the area in front of Matthews Hall at the
College and looking for information on the Indian College. And
in two thousand and seven we had excavated a unit
archaeological unit where we came across some dark soils and
(19:21):
seventeenth century printing type. It was in two thousand nine
that we were able to expand on that area and
we came across this dark feature in the soil which
represented the eastern wall of the Indian College building. Yeah,
we have some images and that you had mentioned, Holly,
the Digging Veritas online exhibit and physical exhibit in the
(19:44):
museum itself, and we have some great images of what
that feature looks like as well as some UM detail
uh photos of the artifacts that came from the trench
and that UM that sit s wated it in time
UM at the time of the Indian College. The printing
(20:05):
type UM. Some of the slipware ceramics that UM are
you know solidly uh, seventeenth century type. So we were
pretty excited when all the all the aspects of the
feature came together to suggest it relating to the architecture
of the Indian College. And those two pieces of printing
(20:27):
type UM, if I did my research, read my research correctly,
those are believed to be part of the first printing
press in the colonies. Is that correct? Yes, So this
is the little object that speaks volumes as Trish would
put it, UM, small pieces of lead alloy printing type
(20:48):
that were used in immovable press, which was the first
press in the British colonies. It was here at Harvard.
It was located in the Ending College building. And it
was used to produce text in both local Goncling language
and English. Yeah, the first book printed in America were
printed on that press. So that's hugely significant. I mean,
(21:10):
that's like a big fine even though, as you said,
it's a tiny thing, but it's really huge. We agree. UM.
One of the really really cool aspects of this whole
project to me is that you collaborate with the Wampanoag
and Nipmunk nations and I think probably other UM Native
(21:32):
American nations. What is their involvement in this and how
did that partnership develop? Sure, this is this is tri UM.
At the time that UM, the fiftieth anniversary of the
Indian College was being commemorated, UM, there were already strands
(21:53):
of outreach and intellectual UH networks relating some of the
questions UM of the Indian College UH to UH current
scholarly work coming out of UM Native American groups in
(22:13):
New England. UM, and so we UH largely followed on
those cues that were UM already UH in process of
of unfolding. UM. We also were enthusiastic to identify some
common research goals that UM might have some UH potential
(22:36):
student involvement UM in addition to the scholarly UM implications
as well as some public interests. So UM. For the museum,
it was, you know, the coming together of a number
of different factors and and interests and and people UM
(22:56):
in a in a positive and UM and I think,
you know, growing out of UM intellectual trends in different
fields UM which the Native American tribes were on their
own taking part in UH. And so I think our
contacts with for example, direct descendants of um Nipmuck tribal
(23:21):
members who um UH descended from James the printer UM
the individual one of the individuals who UM is known
to have UH printed on the printing press. UM. And UH.
Then UH tribal members from the Wanpanoi tribes, particularly m
(23:43):
gay head on a Quino. We were fortunate to work
with a Harvard student from that community, that Wanpanoi community,
who took the Archaeology of Harvard Yard class with us UM.
And that was right around the same time as the
three hundred and fifty is UM anniversary of UH what
(24:06):
would have been their graduations from the Indian College. So UM.
Just I think a lot of UH common interests coming
together at the same time and continuing to develop and
and I think not the least of which is the
um Uh Wantpanoa language reclamation project work being done utilizing
(24:30):
some of the books that were printed at the Indian College,
in particular the Indian Bible UM. A lot of that
work has been recognized as key in UM in revitalizing
the want Wampanoa language which had gone unspoken for many
years and is being revitalized through the efforts of UM
(24:52):
tribal members UH today and has been going on for
for some time. But all of these different threads, I
think um Uh come together and have relevance for each
other and and hopefully can continue to grow the development
of knowledge on this topic. Can I add Trish. We
(25:12):
operationalize engagement the public archaeology of the project UM through
an open well an open house in the spring semester.
So in the fall semester when we start excavations, we
have an opening day where we invite different members of
the community, local community UM to come and talk about
(25:33):
the project and help the students situate their experience within
this larger history. And then in the spring we have
an open house where students, we and the students invite
members of their community here on campus in the local
travel community to come and view what we've located in
(25:54):
the excavations and then have a conversation about what we've
found to date and where the project is going next.
So if we're really fortunate to be able to have
a dialogue with different stakeholders about the project itself, MH,
no one used help but growth. Yeah. And one facet
(26:17):
that I'd just add more overtly than I did previously
was the scholarly interest among the UM Harvard University Native
American campus community UM and their interest in Native education,
the history of Native education, UH, you know, some of
the positive as well as negative aspects of that, some
(26:40):
critique of Native education, and then also interest in literacy
UM and how that's an important aspect of UH colonial
the colonial enterprise. So now I'm going to shift gears
on you a little bit and talk a little bit
more about architecture because my understand ending is that you
did not really have any UM contemporary images that were
(27:06):
made when the the Indian College was actually standing, and
that there was one representation that was put together based
on archival documents. But has this UM trench and sort
of this excavation led to any new insights about the
actual building itself. Absolutely. You know, we have descriptions in
(27:28):
the archival record which say we proposed to and I
think i'm quoting here, um build a small pile of
brick for the Indians, and the actual dimensions that it
was supposed to be. There was a two story building
with room for twenty students that was supposed to be
about but the details of that are not in the archives,
(27:52):
and there are no drawings from the seventeenth century that
indicates what the building looked like. So in the art
a logical excavation, we're able to see, yes, it was
a brick building, and the kinds of bricks that were used.
There's some specially made bricks that came out of the
excavation which showed us how um important the structure was
(28:14):
on on that small campus at the time. So Harvard
in seventeenth century is just four buildings two um three
of which are our wood frame and then the first
brick building is the Indian College building. Mm hmm. And
I think the the um stoutness of the foundation and
(28:35):
the this this season, in particular, the extent of clay
underpinnings UM show it to be kind of a contrast
in degree of permanency to the previous building. The sixty
Old College UM didn't really leave a foundation trace. The
(29:00):
Seller hole, a small cellar hole of the old College
UM has been excavated, But in terms of building footings
UH there there certainly aren't any that have been discovered
that are to the extent of the trench that we
found relating to the Indian College and the UM. The
(29:21):
the kind of lack of of good foundation for the
old College and may have contributed John Stubbs has suggested
may have contributed to UM it's quick track to disrepair UM,
and so the the investment in underpinnings for the Indian
College are are a contrast. So in terms of architecture
(29:44):
UM the brick UH structure is confirmed as well as
I think the investment in its UM permanence, which is
kind of a surprise because it was taken down not
too long UM after. In UM we talk a little
bit about that in the in the exhibits, right, I
(30:05):
think we were really both of us have worked on
colonial sites and both of us were just so impressed
with the level of effort that was put into constructing
this building to be completed by sixty You know, Harvard
landscape in the seventeenth century kind of a marshy area
(30:25):
to construct building, and the efforts put forward with the
clay and the size of the trench to stabilize the
structure so that would be longstanding, as said, is so
significant and really adds to our understanding of the investment
that was being made with the construction of this building.
(30:47):
So shifting a little bit now that you have brought
you know, you've mentioned the colonial era again, um, which
we've been talking about, I know, the whole time, but
I know that in the online exhibit you talk a
little bit about kind of social hierarchy and class structure
and how that played out at the school. Has what
elements of this archaeology project have kind of lent to
(31:10):
your understanding of how all of that worked. I think
there's a couple of great examples that come out, both
in the ceramic material that's been recovered and also the
fawnel material that's been recovered. Whitney say, Trish, yeah, yeah
for it. So with the ceramic material, you know, in
the seventeenth century, as we imagine um, what daily life
(31:31):
was like we know that the students led are really
structured lives, both the English students and the Native American students.
You know, their days were planned out for them from
about five am to eleven pm. And when you think
about their life and their world, you know, what we
find in the archaeological record is their trash, right, so
(31:54):
the broken pottery, the animal zone that was part of
their daily life, and how they ate at the table,
and their diets and the ceramics show from the seventeenth
century show you know, fairly modest beginning, right and so
nothing really fancy. And when you look at the funnel material,
the animal bones that are left over from meals, you
(32:16):
see something similar as well that it's just a very
modest beginning. There's indications that there was a great deal
of status differentiation at the table, you know, those seated
above the salt and those who are not. And so
we have an indication more about those students that were
(32:36):
seated below the salt, you know, with their plain ceramics
where they carve their initials into the bottom of their
red ware tankard and just the small few things they
had with them as students in the college um. One
of the I think the surprises is some of the
local at least that from the point of view of
(33:00):
UM students. Are some of the local products that UM
are evident in the archaeological record, particularly relating to dining,
the abundance of oyster shells, which also would have been
used in UM the manufacturer of mortar for the brick building,
but UM, the it seems pretty clear that oysters were
(33:23):
also UM used as a food source, and a number
of other local you know, as Diana mentioned UM that
it was a pretty modest beginning the UM. The emphasis
on UM, some of those local products high like that,
I think for the students in in contrast to our
(33:45):
dining situation today. You know, we talked about with the
students the yummy bivalves diet, eating valves, but at that
time it's not considered a fancy diet. Rather they're eating
this local grub on plain dishes. UM. One other thing
(34:10):
I wanted to talk about, and I know this is
also part of the exhibit, is sort of the the
rules and the structure of Harvard in the sixteen fifties
and sixteen sixties, which you know, we're based in religion,
and they sound very strict and there's no smoking, and
they were clothing guidelines, but the archaeological record gives us
some evidence that those guidelines were maybe not always followed. Um,
(34:33):
will you elaborate on that? Sure, no big surprise there
that students are um just as invested in their extracurricular
pursuits as they are today with um, just a lot
of evidence of pipe smoking, um, using tobacco as well
as drinking through the evidence of wine bottles and other
(34:56):
liquor bottles. You know, the laws of the college are
based on the laws of the Big Colony, which also
advocate a modest lifestyle without any excess and um, you know,
smoking and drinking are considered excess, and so students are
definitely imbibing and enjoying themselves in ways that went against
(35:20):
the laws of both the university or the college at
the time and the Bay Colony. H. Do you want
to mention some of the health evidence of health and
stress manage? Oh, my gosh, you know, this is one
of my favorites. Trish knows. This is one of my
favorite topics. Is the level of bodily care and comfort
(35:45):
in the seventeenth centuries. Another thing we talked this is
about your day to day life in the seventeenth century.
How you consider bodily health today is not how you
considered bodily health in the seventeenth century. You know, we
find and what we find in the archaeological record is,
you know, some evidence of how they're The students were
(36:06):
trying to care for themselves with um tiny bone combs
with really close teeth that were used to pick the
life out of hair, so that life was a concern
at the university. And then also the medicine bottles that
we recover. The students were compounding medicines to alleviate illnesses
(36:27):
as part of their daily life, and some of the
early accounts are recipes of the different medicines that could
be used to alleviate dysentery and diarrhea and all the
things that make you uncomfortable even and there was an
excavation in the eighties where they came up with some
botanical remains, and those botanical remains also were evidence of
(36:52):
the medicinals that are used or at the time considered
simples um to alleviate bodily concerned. I love how they
have delicately and carefully you put that, But you know,
if you think about it. These students that you know,
they're not comfortable. I mean as we think about comfort,
(37:14):
bodily comfort. Now, they have keith issues, they have life,
they have um problems with digestion. You know, all of
that is part of their daily life. And how they
try to alleviate that through the use of material culture
is something that also resides as part of the story
as well that we recover from the archaeological records. So
(37:42):
now that we are jumping back in um to our
last segment, our wonderful guests are going to share with
us some of their favorite finds from the Harvard excavation,
and you will get a very real sense here of
how much they love the work they do and how
exciting it is for them to be part of this
really unique student or it did archaeology broad dast So
(38:05):
for each of you, I would love to hear what
the most exciting or favorite find in the archaeological work
there at Harvard is since mentioned. I'm kidding, I have
one overall, and one from this season. I don't know
if Trish go ahead. So in two thousand nine, when
(38:29):
we're excavating at that area where we would believe it
to be the trench to students looked up from the
excavations and said, we think we found something and they
held it up and it was a piece of the
printing type and I just burst into tears. I mean
it was such a moment. This this season we had
students excavating in this level that was seventeen and eighteenth
(38:51):
century material and he said, oh, you know, I think
we found something interesting and he held up this pair
of cuffling please, and I said, there is no way
you found that on this site. They were so nice
and so beautiful and so well preserved, and like, yeah,
we totally did. I was like, oh, do you bring
them from somewhere? But no, sure enough, they came out
(39:13):
of the excavation. And that kind of excitement never goes away,
even after years of doing that. Mm hmm. Yeah. I
think that UM. One of the artifact types that is
a particularly effective time machine and kind of context awareness
(39:34):
raiser for students is UM when they start finding the
colonial clay tobacco pipes, and uh, there they find them
with with some frequency, so UM, it's it's uh, it's
it's enough to kind of it's a real eye opener
that we're you know, we're dealing with a different a
different same place, but a very different time. UM. In
(39:57):
terms of my own excavation Asian Harvard Yard, finding in
an entire fish skeleton in the seller of the old
college building. UH, seventeenth century fish skeleton was pretty exciting too.
So what would either of you say? You can each
to give your own answer. UH, is the most important
(40:20):
thing that you would like people to know about this
ongoing archaeology project at Harvard? Well, I think the broad
message that UM cultural resources, archaeology even of recent historic periods,
is all around us, and to raise awareness for the
(40:40):
preservation and support for those resources is UM is a
biggie UH. And then in addition to that, I think
the more specific message of our shared colonial past in
New England UM that interweaves UH a place like Harvard
(41:03):
College with UM Native American families and communities in the region. Diana. Yeah,
so I would say, you know, the story of the
sevent century Harvard again speaks to that shared path. But
it's also such an important message for students in the
(41:23):
future that they understand the university history and that they
have a part in creating the narrative for the present,
and that narrative includes telling the story of the Indian
College and the importance of Indian education at early Harvard,
and that's a story that's been forgotten. The Indian College
was dismantled, the bricks were used for another building. If
(41:45):
you look at the landscape today, that story is absent.
So having students being able to tell that story, it's
so important to the continuation of the project. So can
you share any plans or exciting things going on with
upcoming aspects of the big mm hmmm. So um, we
have students working on updates to the on exhibit as
(42:10):
we speak, So that's very exciting. So changing a little
bit about the public space of the project online and
um then thinking we're also cataloging finds from this past,
the past falls excavations, what else trish Um, Yeah, the
online the the updates to the online exhibit. I think
(42:32):
that's that's a biggie. And the fact that, um, we
aim to be offering the course again. In offering it
in twenty six seventeen, we're in the fall will execrate
in the yard and the spring will go with the
lab catalog the material and then help with the accessioning processes.
So that becomes part of the museum's collection. So cool. Uh,
(42:53):
and you guys both mentioned the online site. So where
could listeners go if they want to learn more about this?
So um to the uh the main website of the
Pbody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology, And then um there's
a link to exhibitions and a sub link to online
(43:16):
exhibitions and it's under their uh titled Digging Veritas. And
it really is quite a treat. There are a lot
of really fun images to look at. Uh. I so
glad you enjoyed it. Oh yeah, and watch the space.
More changes to come excellent excellence. So it will continue
to develop, which means it's good to go back to
(43:36):
periodically so I can see new stuff. Um. So, and
we will include the main link in our show notes
as well. UH. But otherwise, ladies, thank you so much.
This has been such a delight. So Tracy, how cool
is this project? What? Learning about this thing? Well, it's like,
(44:00):
uh to think about the opportunity that these students have
that they get to participate in a course UH in
some very real archaeology that is very materially contributing to
a museum exhibit and to the historic record. That's an
impact that a lot of students don't have the chance
to have, So I just love that they're kind of
igniting that fire in college age kids. It's very cool. Yeah,
(44:23):
I think, you know, I know a lot of folks
that have studied archaeology and they've gotten to go on
diggs as part of their work. But I don't think
I know of anybody who's digs were directly related to
the school that they were attending, which is kind of
a cool additional layer. Yeah, I always I mean, I
have not been to their dig, and I hope to
you because I think it would be fascinating. But I
(44:45):
just love knowing it's in this very busy part of
Harvard Yard and it's sort of you know, real life
and history kind of meeting and negotiating with each other.
We always talk about here on the show that history
is all around us, So what better way to show
it than sort of participating in a dig like this
and kind of having this on display to everyone there
at Harvard. I love the idea. I think it's awesome.
(45:06):
Uh So, my super duper thanks again to Trisian Diana,
because they were amazing. We will put the link to
the Digging Veritas Online exhibit in our show notes. And
now I have listener mail. This is some of the
most charming listener mail of all time. And it actually
it came while Tracy was away and so I took
(45:27):
pictures of it and sent it to her because it
was so sweet. It is from our listener, Moira uh
and Mury writes, Holly, Tracy and stuff you missed in
history class people, So Nol, that's for you. I love
your podcast. Me and my mom, I'm only eight, listen
to your podcast when we come home from the y
m c A. Or we're going to clogging. So there's
(45:48):
a series of these biographies and they're very interesting. I've
started too, but I haven't finished them yet because unfortunately
they're at my doctor's office. So anyways, the books are
about Walt Disney and Neil Armstrong. My point is I
have a request for either or I love your podcast.
It teaches me so much about history. Your listener, Moira,
Oh my gosh, this is one of the best letters
(46:09):
we've ever gotten. I love it. And you know, Moira,
you're really appealing to my personal loves because I love Disney.
I don't think anybody is blind on that point, and
I love space talk, so both of those are near
and dear to my heart. If you would like to
write us and share your ideas as Moira has, you
can do that at History Podcast at House of Works
(46:30):
dot com. You can also visit us at Facebook dot
com slash mist in History, on Twitter, at misst in history,
at misston history dot tumbler dot com, and at pinterest
dot com slash mist in History. There's also a spread
shirt store at mist in History dot spreadshirt dot com,
which we thankfully finally have some new product in so
you can go check it out. If you would like to,
uh potentially learn a little bit more about what we
(46:52):
talked about today in a very grand sense, you can
go to our parents right, how stuff works, typing the
word archaeology in the search bar, and who You will
have plenty of things to keep you busy and occupied
for a while. We have a lot of content around archaeology.
If you would like to visit us, you can do
that at mystan history dot com, where all of our
episodes exists in archive form. We also have show notes
(47:12):
for all of the episodes. Since Tracy and I have
been part of the podcast, and even occasionally we'll get
an additional goodie or tidbit along the way, so we
encourage you to visit us at Myston history dot com
and houseworks dot com for more on this and thousands
of other topics. Works dot com
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from housetop
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Holly from and I'm Tracy V. Wilson and uh. We
certainly reference archaeology all the time on the show, and
we talk about artifacts that have been on Earth and
(00:22):
sometimes discoveries that help explain our understandings of other times
and cultures, but we don't often get to actually speak
with the archaeologists involved. Just always, you know, we love
hearing from We have fans that are archaeologists that write
to us sometimes, but it's cool to actually get to
sit down and have a conversation with archaeologists. And I
was recently lucky enough to do just that. I had
(00:44):
to talk with two fabulous women who are archaeologists at
Harvard University and they're working on this really interesting ongoing
project with Harvard's Peabody Museum of Ethnology and Archaeology. So
this is another one of our recent collection of episodes.
You can tell it summertime, because Holly and I have
each had very is time off, So this is another
one of those episodes that Holly, you took You took
(01:06):
the reins on this one while I was away, and
so I am getting to experience it for the first
time along with all of our listeners. I love it
when it works out that way. It is it's kind
of fun to see. I know, for me, when you
do a project on your own, it's fun to kind
of see how that plays out, and it's kind of
like getting a little treat in addition to getting time off.
So tell us about who you talk to you. So,
(01:29):
in this first segment, I will introduce you to these
fabulous women who are Patricia Capone and Diana Lauren, and
they're going to share their stories on how they ended
up at Harvard and how they ended up working on
this dig that's actually exploring Harvard's colonial past. We're also
going to talk about Harvard's Indian College and how that
was established, uh and as well we're going to discuss
(01:51):
colonialism in the context of the school. Alrighty, So today
I have a super fun treat. We are going to
be talking to two curators from the Peabody Museum of
Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University. And so for our
(02:12):
listeners who love archaeology stories and or uh Native American history,
this one is really going to be a delight, like
a piece of delicious dessert cake, except in knowledge form. UM.
So I have Patricia Capone who goes by Trish and
she's the director of Repatriation and Research Services, and Diana Lauren,
who is Director of Academic Partnerships UH and they both
(02:34):
work as curators of an exhibit there at the Peabody
Museum UH called Digging Veritas. And most of our listeners
probably know, Harvard University is the oldest higher education institution
in the US. It was founded in sixteen thirty six,
so in many ways it's kind of like a living
time capsule of America's development, and these two women have
(02:55):
been part of a really fascinating project that combines archaeological
education him with historical education and Harvard's own pest. So, ladies,
welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here,
Thank you for having us. Absolutely we're psyched to be here. Yay.
So now, well, each of you, UM, and whoever wishes
(03:16):
to go first, may do so. Tell us a little
bit about yourself and kind of what you do as
a curator, and if you want to include it, how
you landed there. This is Trish UM and I began
excavating in Harvard Yard as a graduate student UM here
at the university, and I uh was under the wing
(03:40):
of the UM graduate student who was working on the
project for his thesis, John Stubbs. UM. I grew up
in the Boston area and was UM in part interested
in this particular story because of that, but also because
I'm interested in colonial amor Amica and cultural dynamics of
(04:03):
um that period in general. All right, Diana, it's your turn. Okay. Well,
I came to Harvard in after I finished my degree
in archaeology at Sindy Binghamton. And while I wasn't a
archaeologist as an undergrad, it's something I studied in graduate
school and focused on colonial America. So it was after
(04:24):
I had been here a while, knowing that the university
had previously done digs, including the one Trish was involved
with in Harvard Yard, I began to get interested. And
it was in this moment in two thousand five, where
Trish and I had the opportunity to start the project
and dig in the yard, I learned about the material
and intellectual history of the university. UH, and I have
to ask this question. It may be weird. I think
(04:46):
when a lot of people think of archaeology, they think of,
you know, really ancient kind of excavation stuff. What threw
you instead the colonial history? Well, I grew up in Philadelphia,
and UM, not to a to myself, but was around
in UM nineteen by centennial celebrations, which was huge in Philadelphia,
(05:07):
and from that point on just interesting colonial history and
the history of North America emerged out of those interests. Yeah,
and UM. For me, I had been mainly working previously
as a graduate student in the Southwest US, especially in
New Mexico and in colonial mission contexts there UM, which
(05:33):
were in many ways contrast to the kind of archaeology
taking place in New England, but also some um, really
intriguing similarities. Uh. Some differences included the missionization versus economic
colonization UM, and UH a number of other things that
(05:57):
I was interested in in kind of exploring as as comparisons.
In contrast, I would say, like Trish, I also worked
in for my dissertation in Cluneo contexts that weren't English,
they were Spanish and French. But then you know, coming
here and being here and learning about the work that's
(06:17):
been done at Harvard. The history of Harvard, you know,
trying to understand Quanto pass through all these different colonies
and different people intersecting in the seventeenth and eighteenth century
is just truly fascinating. Well, uh, going off of that,
will you guys give us a little bit of background
on Harvard's Indian College, because we're going to talk about
(06:38):
it a lot. And I know, I was surprised to
learn it really didn't have all that many students. I
think when you say the word college, you think of
a crowd of people, and that is not the case. Correct.
There were five students known to have um been connected
to the Indian College, and actually um four of them
(07:02):
are known to have resided there. Uh. One of them
was a little bit later in the eighteenth century, but um, yeah,
it's UM started as part of the Charter of sixteen fifty,
which committed UM Harvard College, uh in part to the
education of the English and Indian youth of this country
(07:25):
and knowledge and godliness on quoting from the sixteen fifty
charter there and that had been the result of a
collaboration from the English Society for the Propagation of the
Gospel in New England. They granted funds for Indian education
at Harvard UM, which came at a UH crucial time
(07:46):
for the college, which was beginning to struggle financially, and
UH later resulted in the building of the brick Um
Indian College Building self UM, which was the second educational
structure built as an educational structure at Harvard College. UM
(08:10):
anything else to add their Diana Well, I would say, UM,
I think that the Society for the Propagation of the
Gospel in New England that they had kept the university
or the college afloat at that time, because you know,
the college has established sixteen thirty six. Shortly after that,
they're going bankrupt and they need money to continue going.
(08:30):
And so since they're struggling financially, they looked to the
Society for funds, and the society says, that's fine, you
can keep going, but you need to dedicate the institution
not only to English students but also Native American students
to learn to come pure to ministers. Yeah, and this this,
(08:51):
I mean, this was in line with what the the
previous focus of Harvard College was to train UM young
men in Puritan ministry UM, but expanding it to become
UH an overtly, you know, proselytization, uh, mechanism was was
(09:14):
a new direction. And so I have to wonder what,
since we kind of know at that point the goals
for the Indian College, I have to wonder what the
goals for the young men who attended were. Were they
pretty much signed on or was this an option that
just seemed like, you know, they were either stuck kind
(09:34):
of into this idea or were they really enthusiastic about
being part of this project. I mean that kind of
information is somewhat lost in the archive. You know, we
talked about colonialism and colonialists contexts as these very complex
landscapes of colonialism happening, and different communities speaking to recover
(10:01):
or continued traditions or become something new. Whitney Saytrish, Yeah,
I guess I would say that the details of their
personal stories are not very well known at this point.
There's no fun clear whether the UM primary sources out
there yet to be discovered, will help inform on those
(10:21):
personal details. UM. Uh. The bit's a personal detail that
we do know is that UM the UM at least
a couple of the individuals Caleb Chisa Tamick in particular,
UM were uh the sons of leaders. And so the
(10:41):
notion that um, the leaders of the neighboring indigenous people
were uh coming to join this enterprise, you know, was
I think a weighty notion, and UM suggested that it
was in some way up positives perhaps honor. We're not
(11:04):
you know, we can't really necessarily project that, but UM,
and we don't know whether, uh, what the individuals themselves felt.
But the fact that the sons of prominent individuals were
um were the the ones the Indian College students. I
think it's a significant pattern. Um. They would have been
(11:25):
studying for many years prior to coming to the college
in preparatory school. Just to enter, they would have had
um to be fluent in a number of scholarly languages,
including Ancient Greek and Latin Hebrew. So UM. In addition
to you know, English not being a first language, this
(11:47):
was uh, you know, pretty major educational background that they
already arrived with. And so the project um that resulted
in the Digging Veritas exhibits. A really loved this because
it actually started as a class that students could take
and it continues as a class. Well, can you tell
(12:07):
us a little bit about that class and kind of
how that piece of curriculum came to be and how
it continues. Sure, so in two thousand five, the museum
received your calls from Massachusetts Hall, which is the place
of where the president resides on campus and it's the
oldest standing structure at that time. In two thousand five,
(12:31):
they were going to be doing some construction around the
building and they had received guidance from the local Historic
Commission saying, you know, you should get some archaeologists to
check around the building before you do construction to make
sure you don't impact any cultural resources. And then that
same year in two thousand five, and I don't know, Trish,
if you want to take over at this point. Yeah. Sure.
(12:55):
It was simultaneous with the commemoryation of the three fiftieth
anniversary of the Harvard Indian College. And um, uh, you know,
having some understanding of previous excavations in Harvard Yard, we
we knew that the location of the Indian College, the
(13:19):
satisical location of the Indian College was still not known
and um, and so we got to talking with some
of the interested um scholarly interests, community stakeholders, and so forth.
The Harvard University Native American program played a major role
(13:40):
in the commemoration of the Indian College and and UM
came to conceive of this potential public archaeology project that
UM would take the form of a Harvard class as
as had been UM Harvard classes had previously excavated in
Harvard Art in the nineteen eighties with John Stubbs UM,
(14:04):
but having this this one have the the additional facet
of a a focus on community archaeology and UM neighboring
Native American groups interests in the topic, as well as
the on campus UM Native American community and scholarly interests
in this UH. To this point, UM under studied topic.
(14:31):
So in two thousand and five it was really this
perfect moment for us to go forward and get the
support to dig in the yard and to teach it
as a class so that students could be invested in
investigating this history as well as contributing to the history
YEAH and the museum. The Piboty Museum was also at
(14:52):
the at that time exploring ways UM to involve students
in hands on learning settings and UM learning through material culture,
museum processes and UM the types of research that result
(15:13):
in museum collections themselves. So for students to have the
opportunity to UM you know, kind of start to finish,
engage in a research project and then UH take part
in the interpretation of the products of that research UM
and and then archiving them for posterity as part of
(15:34):
the museum collection. UH was embraced supported as a good
thing to experiment with. It's such a wonderful idea, although
it doesn't make me wonder how on earth do you
manage a dig site that is also part of a
busy and thriving campus. UM. It is the busiest part
of the campaign, it definitely is. So we have so
(15:56):
much support from the university and the museum to do
the work. We have the support of yard operations who
manage the day to day flow of activities in the yard,
as well as the landscaping crew, archives, etcetera. Just a
lot of people coming to the other to support the project.
So we can dig in this very public space and
(16:19):
do the work with the students there. You know, having
the project take place in that public space is an
opportunity for us to talk about the public about the
history of the university, the importance of the Indian College,
and the story about Indian education at Harvard, and that's
not a story that most people know about. Yeah, and
and I'd also like to credit the student's openness to
(16:44):
UM engaging in communicating the relevance of UM not only
this particular topic of the Indian College in Harvard history,
but UM the importance of of archaeology and cultural resources
under our feet UM UH broadly conceived is is just amazing.
And their willingness to UM UH really think of it
(17:09):
as a form of civic engagement and UM and you know,
be there with the public and and help guide the
public experience as their UH coming through the yard, you know,
either UM either as as as tourists or of you know,
just walking on their way to UM OUTSELLO students on
(17:31):
their way to class, or or UM other community members.
It's the students have really played such a key and
UH an excellent role in the public archaeology aspect. I
just want to add to that by think they're so
enthusiastic with engaging about with the public about the project
(17:51):
and the story that it just makes it a fantastic
project all about. So getting back to my chat with
(18:12):
Trich and Diana, UH lateies are next going to talk
about some pretty significant fines that have been made by
students participating in this dig at Harvard Yard. And then
we're going to talk a little bit about why they're
so little information about the building that housed the Indian College,
because well, it's part of Harvard's history. There's a lot
of gaps in the knowledge there. Uh, And we're gonna
talk a little bit about everyone's favorite topic, which is
(18:34):
food and some of the more rebellious pursuits of the
colleges students. So then in two thousand nine, uh, this
project uncovered a rather important trench. Can you tell us
sort of about that trench and it's significance and and
what you found in it. So into down nine we
(18:57):
had on previous years, I should say, we were excavating
in the area in front of Matthews Hall at the
College and looking for information on the Indian College. And
in two thousand and seven we had excavated a unit
archaeological unit where we came across some dark soils and
(19:21):
seventeenth century printing type. It was in two thousand nine
that we were able to expand on that area and
we came across this dark feature in the soil which
represented the eastern wall of the Indian College building. Yeah,
we have some images and that you had mentioned, Holly,
the Digging Veritas online exhibit and physical exhibit in the
(19:44):
museum itself, and we have some great images of what
that feature looks like as well as some UM detail
uh photos of the artifacts that came from the trench
and that UM that sit s wated it in time
UM at the time of the Indian College. The printing
(20:05):
type UM. Some of the slipware ceramics that UM are
you know solidly uh, seventeenth century type. So we were
pretty excited when all the all the aspects of the
feature came together to suggest it relating to the architecture
of the Indian College. And those two pieces of printing
(20:27):
type UM, if I did my research, read my research correctly,
those are believed to be part of the first printing
press in the colonies. Is that correct? Yes, So this
is the little object that speaks volumes as Trish would
put it, UM, small pieces of lead alloy printing type
(20:48):
that were used in immovable press, which was the first
press in the British colonies. It was here at Harvard.
It was located in the Ending College building. And it
was used to produce text in both local Goncling language
and English. Yeah, the first book printed in America were
printed on that press. So that's hugely significant. I mean,
(21:10):
that's like a big fine even though, as you said,
it's a tiny thing, but it's really huge. We agree. UM.
One of the really really cool aspects of this whole
project to me is that you collaborate with the Wampanoag
and Nipmunk nations and I think probably other UM Native
(21:32):
American nations. What is their involvement in this and how
did that partnership develop? Sure, this is this is tri UM.
At the time that UM, the fiftieth anniversary of the
Indian College was being commemorated, UM, there were already strands
(21:53):
of outreach and intellectual UH networks relating some of the
questions UM of the Indian College UH to UH current
scholarly work coming out of UM Native American groups in
(22:13):
New England. UM, and so we UH largely followed on
those cues that were UM already UH in process of
of unfolding. UM. We also were enthusiastic to identify some
common research goals that UM might have some UH potential
(22:36):
student involvement UM in addition to the scholarly UM implications
as well as some public interests. So UM. For the museum,
it was, you know, the coming together of a number
of different factors and and interests and and people UM
(22:56):
in a in a positive and UM and I think,
you know, growing out of UM intellectual trends in different
fields UM which the Native American tribes were on their
own taking part in UH. And so I think our
contacts with for example, direct descendants of um Nipmuck tribal
(23:21):
members who um UH descended from James the printer UM
the individual one of the individuals who UM is known
to have UH printed on the printing press. UM. And UH.
Then UH tribal members from the Wanpanoi tribes, particularly m
(23:43):
gay head on a Quino. We were fortunate to work
with a Harvard student from that community, that Wanpanoi community,
who took the Archaeology of Harvard Yard class with us UM.
And that was right around the same time as the
three hundred and fifty is UM anniversary of UH what
(24:06):
would have been their graduations from the Indian College. So UM.
Just I think a lot of UH common interests coming
together at the same time and continuing to develop and
and I think not the least of which is the
um Uh Wantpanoa language reclamation project work being done utilizing
(24:30):
some of the books that were printed at the Indian College,
in particular the Indian Bible UM. A lot of that
work has been recognized as key in UM in revitalizing
the want Wampanoa language which had gone unspoken for many
years and is being revitalized through the efforts of UM
(24:52):
tribal members UH today and has been going on for
for some time. But all of these different threads, I
think um Uh come together and have relevance for each
other and and hopefully can continue to grow the development
of knowledge on this topic. Can I add Trish. We
(25:12):
operationalize engagement the public archaeology of the project UM through
an open well an open house in the spring semester.
So in the fall semester when we start excavations, we
have an opening day where we invite different members of
the community, local community UM to come and talk about
(25:33):
the project and help the students situate their experience within
this larger history. And then in the spring we have
an open house where students, we and the students invite
members of their community here on campus in the local
travel community to come and view what we've located in
(25:54):
the excavations and then have a conversation about what we've
found to date and where the project is going next.
So if we're really fortunate to be able to have
a dialogue with different stakeholders about the project itself, MH,
no one used help but growth. Yeah. And one facet
(26:17):
that I'd just add more overtly than I did previously
was the scholarly interest among the UM Harvard University Native
American campus community UM and their interest in Native education,
the history of Native education, UH, you know, some of
the positive as well as negative aspects of that, some
(26:40):
critique of Native education, and then also interest in literacy
UM and how that's an important aspect of UH colonial
the colonial enterprise. So now I'm going to shift gears
on you a little bit and talk a little bit
more about architecture because my understand ending is that you
did not really have any UM contemporary images that were
(27:06):
made when the the Indian College was actually standing, and
that there was one representation that was put together based
on archival documents. But has this UM trench and sort
of this excavation led to any new insights about the
actual building itself. Absolutely. You know, we have descriptions in
(27:28):
the archival record which say we proposed to and I
think i'm quoting here, um build a small pile of
brick for the Indians, and the actual dimensions that it
was supposed to be. There was a two story building
with room for twenty students that was supposed to be
about but the details of that are not in the archives,
(27:52):
and there are no drawings from the seventeenth century that
indicates what the building looked like. So in the art
a logical excavation, we're able to see, yes, it was
a brick building, and the kinds of bricks that were used.
There's some specially made bricks that came out of the
excavation which showed us how um important the structure was
(28:14):
on on that small campus at the time. So Harvard
in seventeenth century is just four buildings two um three
of which are our wood frame and then the first
brick building is the Indian College building. Mm hmm. And
I think the the um stoutness of the foundation and
(28:35):
the this this season, in particular, the extent of clay
underpinnings UM show it to be kind of a contrast
in degree of permanency to the previous building. The sixty
Old College UM didn't really leave a foundation trace. The
(29:00):
Seller hole, a small cellar hole of the old College
UM has been excavated, But in terms of building footings
UH there there certainly aren't any that have been discovered
that are to the extent of the trench that we
found relating to the Indian College and the UM. The
(29:21):
the kind of lack of of good foundation for the
old College and may have contributed John Stubbs has suggested
may have contributed to UM it's quick track to disrepair UM,
and so the the investment in underpinnings for the Indian
College are are a contrast. So in terms of architecture
(29:44):
UM the brick UH structure is confirmed as well as
I think the investment in its UM permanence, which is
kind of a surprise because it was taken down not
too long UM after. In UM we talk a little
bit about that in the in the exhibits, right, I
(30:05):
think we were really both of us have worked on
colonial sites and both of us were just so impressed
with the level of effort that was put into constructing
this building to be completed by sixty You know, Harvard
landscape in the seventeenth century kind of a marshy area
(30:25):
to construct building, and the efforts put forward with the
clay and the size of the trench to stabilize the
structure so that would be longstanding, as said, is so
significant and really adds to our understanding of the investment
that was being made with the construction of this building.
(30:47):
So shifting a little bit now that you have brought
you know, you've mentioned the colonial era again, um, which
we've been talking about, I know, the whole time, but
I know that in the online exhibit you talk a
little bit about kind of social hierarchy and class structure
and how that played out at the school. Has what
elements of this archaeology project have kind of lent to
(31:10):
your understanding of how all of that worked. I think
there's a couple of great examples that come out, both
in the ceramic material that's been recovered and also the
fawnel material that's been recovered. Whitney say, Trish, yeah, yeah
for it. So with the ceramic material, you know, in
the seventeenth century, as we imagine um, what daily life
(31:31):
was like we know that the students led are really
structured lives, both the English students and the Native American students.
You know, their days were planned out for them from
about five am to eleven pm. And when you think
about their life and their world, you know, what we
find in the archaeological record is their trash, right, so
(31:54):
the broken pottery, the animal zone that was part of
their daily life, and how they ate at the table,
and their diets and the ceramics show from the seventeenth
century show you know, fairly modest beginning, right and so
nothing really fancy. And when you look at the funnel material,
the animal bones that are left over from meals, you
(32:16):
see something similar as well that it's just a very
modest beginning. There's indications that there was a great deal
of status differentiation at the table, you know, those seated
above the salt and those who are not. And so
we have an indication more about those students that were
(32:36):
seated below the salt, you know, with their plain ceramics
where they carve their initials into the bottom of their
red ware tankard and just the small few things they
had with them as students in the college um. One
of the I think the surprises is some of the
local at least that from the point of view of
(33:00):
UM students. Are some of the local products that UM
are evident in the archaeological record, particularly relating to dining,
the abundance of oyster shells, which also would have been
used in UM the manufacturer of mortar for the brick building,
but UM, the it seems pretty clear that oysters were
(33:23):
also UM used as a food source, and a number
of other local you know, as Diana mentioned UM that
it was a pretty modest beginning the UM. The emphasis
on UM, some of those local products high like that,
I think for the students in in contrast to our
(33:45):
dining situation today. You know, we talked about with the
students the yummy bivalves diet, eating valves, but at that
time it's not considered a fancy diet. Rather they're eating
this local grub on plain dishes. UM. One other thing
(34:10):
I wanted to talk about, and I know this is
also part of the exhibit, is sort of the the
rules and the structure of Harvard in the sixteen fifties
and sixteen sixties, which you know, we're based in religion,
and they sound very strict and there's no smoking, and
they were clothing guidelines, but the archaeological record gives us
some evidence that those guidelines were maybe not always followed. Um,
(34:33):
will you elaborate on that? Sure, no big surprise there
that students are um just as invested in their extracurricular
pursuits as they are today with um, just a lot
of evidence of pipe smoking, um, using tobacco as well
as drinking through the evidence of wine bottles and other
(34:56):
liquor bottles. You know, the laws of the college are
based on the laws of the Big Colony, which also
advocate a modest lifestyle without any excess and um, you know,
smoking and drinking are considered excess, and so students are
definitely imbibing and enjoying themselves in ways that went against
(35:20):
the laws of both the university or the college at
the time and the Bay Colony. H. Do you want
to mention some of the health evidence of health and
stress manage? Oh, my gosh, you know, this is one
of my favorites. Trish knows. This is one of my
favorite topics. Is the level of bodily care and comfort
(35:45):
in the seventeenth centuries. Another thing we talked this is
about your day to day life in the seventeenth century.
How you consider bodily health today is not how you
considered bodily health in the seventeenth century. You know, we
find and what we find in the archaeological record is,
you know, some evidence of how they're The students were
(36:06):
trying to care for themselves with um tiny bone combs
with really close teeth that were used to pick the
life out of hair, so that life was a concern
at the university. And then also the medicine bottles that
we recover. The students were compounding medicines to alleviate illnesses
(36:27):
as part of their daily life, and some of the
early accounts are recipes of the different medicines that could
be used to alleviate dysentery and diarrhea and all the
things that make you uncomfortable even and there was an
excavation in the eighties where they came up with some
botanical remains, and those botanical remains also were evidence of
(36:52):
the medicinals that are used or at the time considered
simples um to alleviate bodily concerned. I love how they
have delicately and carefully you put that, But you know,
if you think about it. These students that you know,
they're not comfortable. I mean as we think about comfort,
(37:14):
bodily comfort. Now, they have keith issues, they have life,
they have um problems with digestion. You know, all of
that is part of their daily life. And how they
try to alleviate that through the use of material culture
is something that also resides as part of the story
as well that we recover from the archaeological records. So
(37:42):
now that we are jumping back in um to our
last segment, our wonderful guests are going to share with
us some of their favorite finds from the Harvard excavation,
and you will get a very real sense here of
how much they love the work they do and how
exciting it is for them to be part of this
really unique student or it did archaeology broad dast So
(38:05):
for each of you, I would love to hear what
the most exciting or favorite find in the archaeological work
there at Harvard is since mentioned. I'm kidding, I have
one overall, and one from this season. I don't know
if Trish go ahead. So in two thousand nine, when
(38:29):
we're excavating at that area where we would believe it
to be the trench to students looked up from the
excavations and said, we think we found something and they
held it up and it was a piece of the
printing type and I just burst into tears. I mean
it was such a moment. This this season we had
students excavating in this level that was seventeen and eighteenth
(38:51):
century material and he said, oh, you know, I think
we found something interesting and he held up this pair
of cuffling please, and I said, there is no way
you found that on this site. They were so nice
and so beautiful and so well preserved, and like, yeah,
we totally did. I was like, oh, do you bring
them from somewhere? But no, sure enough, they came out
(39:13):
of the excavation. And that kind of excitement never goes away,
even after years of doing that. Mm hmm. Yeah. I
think that UM. One of the artifact types that is
a particularly effective time machine and kind of context awareness
(39:34):
raiser for students is UM when they start finding the
colonial clay tobacco pipes, and uh, there they find them
with with some frequency, so UM, it's it's uh, it's
it's enough to kind of it's a real eye opener
that we're you know, we're dealing with a different a
different same place, but a very different time. UM. In
(39:57):
terms of my own excavation Asian Harvard Yard, finding in
an entire fish skeleton in the seller of the old
college building. UH, seventeenth century fish skeleton was pretty exciting too.
So what would either of you say? You can each
to give your own answer. UH, is the most important
(40:20):
thing that you would like people to know about this
ongoing archaeology project at Harvard? Well, I think the broad
message that UM cultural resources, archaeology even of recent historic periods,
is all around us, and to raise awareness for the
(40:40):
preservation and support for those resources is UM is a
biggie UH. And then in addition to that, I think
the more specific message of our shared colonial past in
New England UM that interweaves UH a place like Harvard
(41:03):
College with UM Native American families and communities in the region. Diana. Yeah,
so I would say, you know, the story of the
sevent century Harvard again speaks to that shared path. But
it's also such an important message for students in the
(41:23):
future that they understand the university history and that they
have a part in creating the narrative for the present,
and that narrative includes telling the story of the Indian
College and the importance of Indian education at early Harvard,
and that's a story that's been forgotten. The Indian College
was dismantled, the bricks were used for another building. If
(41:45):
you look at the landscape today, that story is absent.
So having students being able to tell that story, it's
so important to the continuation of the project. So can
you share any plans or exciting things going on with
upcoming aspects of the big mm hmmm. So um, we
have students working on updates to the on exhibit as
(42:10):
we speak, So that's very exciting. So changing a little
bit about the public space of the project online and
um then thinking we're also cataloging finds from this past,
the past falls excavations, what else trish Um, Yeah, the
online the the updates to the online exhibit. I think
(42:32):
that's that's a biggie. And the fact that, um, we
aim to be offering the course again. In offering it
in twenty six seventeen, we're in the fall will execrate
in the yard and the spring will go with the
lab catalog the material and then help with the accessioning processes.
So that becomes part of the museum's collection. So cool. Uh,
(42:53):
and you guys both mentioned the online site. So where
could listeners go if they want to learn more about this?
So um to the uh the main website of the
Pbody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology, And then um there's
a link to exhibitions and a sub link to online
(43:16):
exhibitions and it's under their uh titled Digging Veritas. And
it really is quite a treat. There are a lot
of really fun images to look at. Uh. I so
glad you enjoyed it. Oh yeah, and watch the space.
More changes to come excellent excellence. So it will continue
to develop, which means it's good to go back to
(43:36):
periodically so I can see new stuff. Um. So, and
we will include the main link in our show notes
as well. UH. But otherwise, ladies, thank you so much.
This has been such a delight. So Tracy, how cool
is this project? What? Learning about this thing? Well, it's like,
(44:00):
uh to think about the opportunity that these students have
that they get to participate in a course UH in
some very real archaeology that is very materially contributing to
a museum exhibit and to the historic record. That's an
impact that a lot of students don't have the chance
to have, So I just love that they're kind of
igniting that fire in college age kids. It's very cool. Yeah,
(44:23):
I think, you know, I know a lot of folks
that have studied archaeology and they've gotten to go on
diggs as part of their work. But I don't think
I know of anybody who's digs were directly related to
the school that they were attending, which is kind of
a cool additional layer. Yeah, I always I mean, I
have not been to their dig, and I hope to
you because I think it would be fascinating. But I
(44:45):
just love knowing it's in this very busy part of
Harvard Yard and it's sort of you know, real life
and history kind of meeting and negotiating with each other.
We always talk about here on the show that history
is all around us, So what better way to show
it than sort of participating in a dig like this
and kind of having this on display to everyone there
at Harvard. I love the idea. I think it's awesome.
(45:06):
Uh So, my super duper thanks again to Trisian Diana,
because they were amazing. We will put the link to
the Digging Veritas Online exhibit in our show notes. And
now I have listener mail. This is some of the
most charming listener mail of all time. And it actually
it came while Tracy was away and so I took
(45:27):
pictures of it and sent it to her because it
was so sweet. It is from our listener, Moira uh
and Mury writes, Holly, Tracy and stuff you missed in
history class people, So Nol, that's for you. I love
your podcast. Me and my mom, I'm only eight, listen
to your podcast when we come home from the y
m c A. Or we're going to clogging. So there's
(45:48):
a series of these biographies and they're very interesting. I've
started too, but I haven't finished them yet because unfortunately
they're at my doctor's office. So anyways, the books are
about Walt Disney and Neil Armstrong. My point is I
have a request for either or I love your podcast.
It teaches me so much about history. Your listener, Moira,
Oh my gosh, this is one of the best letters
(46:09):
we've ever gotten. I love it. And you know, Moira,
you're really appealing to my personal loves because I love Disney.
I don't think anybody is blind on that point, and
I love space talk, so both of those are near
and dear to my heart. If you would like to
write us and share your ideas as Moira has, you
can do that at History Podcast at House of Works
(46:30):
dot com. You can also visit us at Facebook dot
com slash mist in History, on Twitter, at misst in history,
at misston history dot tumbler dot com, and at pinterest
dot com slash mist in History. There's also a spread
shirt store at mist in History dot spreadshirt dot com,
which we thankfully finally have some new product in so
you can go check it out. If you would like to,
uh potentially learn a little bit more about what we
(46:52):
talked about today in a very grand sense, you can
go to our parents right, how stuff works, typing the
word archaeology in the search bar, and who You will
have plenty of things to keep you busy and occupied
for a while. We have a lot of content around archaeology.
If you would like to visit us, you can do
that at mystan history dot com, where all of our
episodes exists in archive form. We also have show notes
(47:12):
for all of the episodes. Since Tracy and I have
been part of the podcast, and even occasionally we'll get
an additional goodie or tidbit along the way, so we
encourage you to visit us at Myston history dot com
and houseworks dot com for more on this and thousands
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