November 12, 2021 • 14 mins
Tracy and Holly discuss the possible inspiration for Maggie Lena Walker's name, and then discuss favorite recipes as inspired by a listener mail. They also speculate on Pepper's personality, and how he opened up education to a wide audience.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production
of I Heart Radio. Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P.
Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about Maggie Lena
Walker on the show this week, and Wow, I was
(00:22):
not fully aware of how much she accomplished in her lifetime.
I knew about chartering the bank, I knew about becoming
president of the bank. I knew that in the process
of all of her work, she became one of the
wealthiest black women in the United States living at the
time that she lived. Um, I didn't know about the emporium,
(00:44):
or the newspaper or the many many, many, many, many
many organizations that she played a leadership role in. Uh,
that just went way beyond my basic understanding of her
from having her on my episode shortlist for so long.
She is is inspiring as all get out, and also, um,
(01:05):
makes you want to take a nap. I'm like, Oh,
that's a lot of work. That's an overwhelming amount of
work to consider. Yeah. One thing that came up in
the research that I just could not find a good
place to fit into the episode was some speculation about
how she may have been named for Mary Magdalen. The
(01:28):
Maggie part of her name may have been named after
a grandmother whose name is Margaret. The Lena part is
a little not as clearly documented, and so the biographer
whose ac count I was reading was like could have
been named after Mary Magdalen, and also noted that there
was one of the organizations that she was involved in
(01:49):
or one of the departments. I don't remember the details
that did not get mentioned in the show. Um was
also named for Mary Magdalen, which I thought was an
interesting speculation. Huh. I have questions for you about the
listener mail. Okay, one, you mentioned that your family has
(02:13):
like a family fudge recipe that does not involve a
marble slab. I'm going to ask you the question, mhm,
does it involve the inclusion of nuts in the fudge? Yes? Why? Okay,
I don't know. Um. Starting before I was born, my mom,
(02:35):
every year, uh, primarily my mom my dad had some
involvement too, would make these things she called goody boxes.
She would make them at Christmas every year. Um that
she would make a whole bunch of chocolate chip cookies,
a whole bunch of fudge. My dad usually would be
the one who made peanut brittle, and then as my mom.
(02:57):
My mom is disabled, and as her disability made her
less able to do some of this, my dad has
picked up a lot of the like goody box preparation.
And two things in the Goodey boxes are chocolate chip
cookies and fudge, both of which contain nuts, uh, both
of which my spouse has some very strong opinions about
(03:18):
how those should not be in there. He does. He
and I have never discussed this, but now I feel
bonded to him in any way. Yeah, so I have
never tried to make the fudge recipe myself. I have though,
made my mom's chocolate chip cookie recipe a whole bunch,
and I usually, instead of putting nuts in there, put
some extra chocolate chips so that they like cookie too
(03:42):
solid peace ratio will still be pleasing and it won't
be too much cookie and not enough other bits. Yeah.
I'm not a fan of nuts in baked goods, just
I like my texture a little more consistent than that.
I will say, have you ever done a thing where
the additional chocolate chips you put in your the chip
cookies you used a different chip, like a butter Scotch
(04:03):
do no highly recommend my other questions. Um, that tombstone
got me to thinking what recipe you might want on
your gravestone if you did such a thing. Oh, that's
a good question. So another another recipe that was a
big part of my uh family gathering life as a
(04:24):
child was a potato casserole recipe made from as I
remember it when I was a child. They were made
with hash browns, but not the shredded hash browns that
came in a bag. They were made with the patties
and we would have to put the patties through the
vegetable grad And I have modified that somewhat from the
(04:48):
way that my mom made it when I was a kid,
to instead use the shredded potatoes. Um. I could also
be conflating that with something else. I just remember the
experience when I was a child of putting cold frozen
hash browns. Uh to like break up the break them
up to Knoby salad pieces. Huh. I'm fascinated. It's very good.
(05:10):
It's full of potato and cheese. I mean that's salt done.
Yeah yeah. Cream a chicken soup unless we're having some
vegetarians over and then we have cream mushroom soup instead. Yum.
I it made me think of what I would want,
and I think it would probably be a cocktail recipe,
but I don't know which one yet. Yeah, I mean
it might be the classic vodka Collins, which is one
(05:32):
of my things that I think a lot of. And
it's a very old twice It's a very seventies drink,
but I love it. Yeah, But or maybe something more original,
who knows. Yeah, just a good food for thought. Things
I would like to be remembered me. I feel like
today is behind the scenes has said the least about
(05:53):
the subject of the episode and the most about the
subject of the listener mail. Um. Yeah, I do love
Maggieleena Walker though. Oh she's great. Glad I was able
to take the opportunity to learn more than my limited
knowledge was about previously. Also glad that she's gotten I mean,
(06:13):
recognition beyond what we talked about in the in the
in the show, and in addition to the statue, they
are also schools named for her, and streets named for her,
and all kinds of stuff named for her. Um. An
increasing body of discussion about specifically economic work among black
communities after the Civil War during reconstruction, which has not
(06:39):
been discussed as much compared to like how much discussion
there has spent of more education and social service conversation.
So interesting thread of research there. We talked about John
(07:02):
hen this week. Yeah, I think this episode had more
instances of the letter P than any other episode we
have ever ever ever done. It's definitely a plosive party
going on a we we kind of hinted at it
in the episode, but it does certainly all all of
(07:22):
the information we have about Pepper and how he handled
other people and things in his life make me wonder.
As much as I certainly love Pepper's ghost in its
place in in entertainment history, was he just an enormous
pain in the neck to kind of seems like it?
Um like he seems in some ways very fun and
(07:45):
people spoke so lovingly of him and seeing him give
lectures when they were kids. But then I think maybe
on an interpersonal level, he had some challenges dealing with
other people. As we said, we've both known that person. Yeah,
(08:06):
exuberant and flamboyant person who doesn't like to be in
any way heard it in a direction they don't want
to go yep, or even just questioned his m His
writing in that book that he wrote near the end
of his life is very defensive. It's all very I
(08:27):
did everything right. There were even like him being called
professor Pepper he didn't actually have like credentials a teacher,
which I don't think he ever claimed he did. That
was sort of a nickname, but enough people had clearly
mentioned it as something possibly shady. Then she basically like
goes on a whole diatribe in that book about how
(08:49):
he did not give himself that name, other people gave
him that name. He never claimed to be something he
was not, And part of me is like, are you
just a pain in the neck. But I can also
imagine that if you are a person in that position
where someone is questioning you constantly for things that like
we're not you're doing that, you might towards the end
of your life be like I've had it. I gotta say,
(09:14):
I also know this is not exactly the same thing,
but I kind of like the idea that, like the
guy given the lectures at the Science Museum had just
becomes such a beloved celebrity. Oh yeah, for sure. Um,
I mean it is one of those things that I
think we have all probably I hope we have all
(09:35):
known a person in our life that made learning really
fun and took concepts that sometimes had been sort of
characterized as though they were for higher minds and been
like no, no, no, no, no, let me break it
down and like it sort of makes you fall in
love with learning. And I think he was that at
(09:56):
a time when there was not a lot of that,
right like in the mid eighteen sixties in terms of
general lectures, probably not a lot of people trying to
reach out to folks that did not have a whole
lot of formal education and go, you know, you can
learn this stuff, right, yeah, which is pretty great. That was,
honestly one of the things that that frustrated me as
(10:17):
a child about the transition from elementary school to middle school,
because it felt like a lot of things in elementary
school that we're supposed to be fun, including the library,
we're not fun anymore. In middle school. They were work now,
Like our elementary school library was this bright, welcoming open
(10:38):
space with cozy places to read, and possibly influenced by
the fact that our the middle school was older than
the elementary school library was in terms of actual building,
the middle school library was dingy with shelves and rows
and hard tables to sit at, and the the shift
(10:59):
in approach from teaching a lot of things went from
here's a fun thing we're going to do, to sit
down and shut your mouth and learn. Right, it was
less about discovery and that's when it shifts to become
more about memorization. Yeah, yeah, that's part of what kills
it off. I know that's not the case with the
way a lot of people are teaching now, but that
was my experience growing up, right, And I mean when
(11:22):
you think about right like that that right up in
the Australian paper about like how many people learned practical
stuff from him that we can't ever quantify his influence
really since he was inviting people, you know, and so
is the Royal Polytechnic people that were you know, laborers
essentially in some cases to come and listen to a
(11:43):
lecture and learn about this thing. Like how many of
them gained a broader understanding of the world and we're
able to tackle things. Um. That also is a theme
that runs through his book For Boys and Science, which
much of it is for Boys and Science, which is problematic,
but also uh the blind spot of the times UM
(12:05):
is that like no, No, if you learn all these
things and you learn about how all of them work,
like you will be able to handle anything. It's very
much about like empowering people through learning, which I love. UM.
The other thing I wanted to mention, which is silly,
and I swear I don't mean to keep mentioning cocktails
all the time, but I wanted to mention to anybody
who might be going to Disney World. There's actually a
(12:28):
cocktail you can get in Disney World called Pepper's Ghost Fun.
They serve it at the Abrica Dab Bar, which is
on the boardwalk, and it's a magic themed bar, and
there's lots of references to illusionists in it. UH. And
it's got like pineapple vodka and hobaniro lime and it's
got a little uh I think it has a little
black pepper on top. It's quite a tasty beverage. My
husband sure likes it, so he is UM also memorialized
(12:55):
in the form of a libation. In addition to all
of the ways that his work is still being used today,
which goes back to my my other Friday UH commentary
on wanting to be remembered for cocktails. So now you go.
Pepper and I clearly have not a thing necessarily in common,
but a link in this way my aspirations. Uh. If
(13:19):
this is your weekend coming up, we hope that it
is filled with joy and delight and is smooth the
silkin that you get so much rest and fun packed
in without exhausting yourself. If you have obligations, like you
maybe have to work, or do you just have a
bunch of stuff you have to do, I hope it
goes as well as it possibly can, it is not stressful,
and that people are always nice to you. We will
(13:41):
see you right back here tomorrow with a classic, and
then we'll be back again on Monday with new shows.
Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Pie Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production
of I Heart Radio. Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P.
Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about Maggie Lena
Walker on the show this week, and Wow, I was
(00:22):
not fully aware of how much she accomplished in her lifetime.
I knew about chartering the bank, I knew about becoming
president of the bank. I knew that in the process
of all of her work, she became one of the
wealthiest black women in the United States living at the
time that she lived. Um, I didn't know about the emporium,
(00:44):
or the newspaper or the many many, many, many, many
many organizations that she played a leadership role in. Uh,
that just went way beyond my basic understanding of her
from having her on my episode shortlist for so long.
She is is inspiring as all get out, and also, um,
(01:05):
makes you want to take a nap. I'm like, Oh,
that's a lot of work. That's an overwhelming amount of
work to consider. Yeah. One thing that came up in
the research that I just could not find a good
place to fit into the episode was some speculation about
how she may have been named for Mary Magdalen. The
(01:28):
Maggie part of her name may have been named after
a grandmother whose name is Margaret. The Lena part is
a little not as clearly documented, and so the biographer
whose ac count I was reading was like could have
been named after Mary Magdalen, and also noted that there
was one of the organizations that she was involved in
(01:49):
or one of the departments. I don't remember the details
that did not get mentioned in the show. Um was
also named for Mary Magdalen, which I thought was an
interesting speculation. Huh. I have questions for you about the
listener mail. Okay, one, you mentioned that your family has
(02:13):
like a family fudge recipe that does not involve a
marble slab. I'm going to ask you the question, mhm,
does it involve the inclusion of nuts in the fudge? Yes? Why? Okay,
I don't know. Um. Starting before I was born, my mom,
(02:35):
every year, uh, primarily my mom my dad had some
involvement too, would make these things she called goody boxes.
She would make them at Christmas every year. Um that
she would make a whole bunch of chocolate chip cookies,
a whole bunch of fudge. My dad usually would be
the one who made peanut brittle, and then as my mom.
(02:57):
My mom is disabled, and as her disability made her
less able to do some of this, my dad has
picked up a lot of the like goody box preparation.
And two things in the Goodey boxes are chocolate chip
cookies and fudge, both of which contain nuts, uh, both
of which my spouse has some very strong opinions about
(03:18):
how those should not be in there. He does. He
and I have never discussed this, but now I feel
bonded to him in any way. Yeah, so I have
never tried to make the fudge recipe myself. I have though,
made my mom's chocolate chip cookie recipe a whole bunch,
and I usually, instead of putting nuts in there, put
some extra chocolate chips so that they like cookie too
(03:42):
solid peace ratio will still be pleasing and it won't
be too much cookie and not enough other bits. Yeah.
I'm not a fan of nuts in baked goods, just
I like my texture a little more consistent than that.
I will say, have you ever done a thing where
the additional chocolate chips you put in your the chip
cookies you used a different chip, like a butter Scotch
(04:03):
do no highly recommend my other questions. Um, that tombstone
got me to thinking what recipe you might want on
your gravestone if you did such a thing. Oh, that's
a good question. So another another recipe that was a
big part of my uh family gathering life as a
(04:24):
child was a potato casserole recipe made from as I
remember it when I was a child. They were made
with hash browns, but not the shredded hash browns that
came in a bag. They were made with the patties
and we would have to put the patties through the
vegetable grad And I have modified that somewhat from the
(04:48):
way that my mom made it when I was a kid,
to instead use the shredded potatoes. Um. I could also
be conflating that with something else. I just remember the
experience when I was a child of putting cold frozen
hash browns. Uh to like break up the break them
up to Knoby salad pieces. Huh. I'm fascinated. It's very good.
(05:10):
It's full of potato and cheese. I mean that's salt done.
Yeah yeah. Cream a chicken soup unless we're having some
vegetarians over and then we have cream mushroom soup instead. Yum.
I it made me think of what I would want,
and I think it would probably be a cocktail recipe,
but I don't know which one yet. Yeah, I mean
it might be the classic vodka Collins, which is one
(05:32):
of my things that I think a lot of. And
it's a very old twice It's a very seventies drink,
but I love it. Yeah, But or maybe something more original,
who knows. Yeah, just a good food for thought. Things
I would like to be remembered me. I feel like
today is behind the scenes has said the least about
(05:53):
the subject of the episode and the most about the
subject of the listener mail. Um. Yeah, I do love
Maggieleena Walker though. Oh she's great. Glad I was able
to take the opportunity to learn more than my limited
knowledge was about previously. Also glad that she's gotten I mean,
(06:13):
recognition beyond what we talked about in the in the
in the show, and in addition to the statue, they
are also schools named for her, and streets named for her,
and all kinds of stuff named for her. Um. An
increasing body of discussion about specifically economic work among black
communities after the Civil War during reconstruction, which has not
(06:39):
been discussed as much compared to like how much discussion
there has spent of more education and social service conversation.
So interesting thread of research there. We talked about John
(07:02):
hen this week. Yeah, I think this episode had more
instances of the letter P than any other episode we
have ever ever ever done. It's definitely a plosive party
going on a we we kind of hinted at it
in the episode, but it does certainly all all of
(07:22):
the information we have about Pepper and how he handled
other people and things in his life make me wonder.
As much as I certainly love Pepper's ghost in its
place in in entertainment history, was he just an enormous
pain in the neck to kind of seems like it?
Um like he seems in some ways very fun and
(07:45):
people spoke so lovingly of him and seeing him give
lectures when they were kids. But then I think maybe
on an interpersonal level, he had some challenges dealing with
other people. As we said, we've both known that person. Yeah,
(08:06):
exuberant and flamboyant person who doesn't like to be in
any way heard it in a direction they don't want
to go yep, or even just questioned his m His
writing in that book that he wrote near the end
of his life is very defensive. It's all very I
(08:27):
did everything right. There were even like him being called
professor Pepper he didn't actually have like credentials a teacher,
which I don't think he ever claimed he did. That
was sort of a nickname, but enough people had clearly
mentioned it as something possibly shady. Then she basically like
goes on a whole diatribe in that book about how
(08:49):
he did not give himself that name, other people gave
him that name. He never claimed to be something he
was not, And part of me is like, are you
just a pain in the neck. But I can also
imagine that if you are a person in that position
where someone is questioning you constantly for things that like
we're not you're doing that, you might towards the end
of your life be like I've had it. I gotta say,
(09:14):
I also know this is not exactly the same thing,
but I kind of like the idea that, like the
guy given the lectures at the Science Museum had just
becomes such a beloved celebrity. Oh yeah, for sure. Um,
I mean it is one of those things that I
think we have all probably I hope we have all
(09:35):
known a person in our life that made learning really
fun and took concepts that sometimes had been sort of
characterized as though they were for higher minds and been
like no, no, no, no, no, let me break it
down and like it sort of makes you fall in
love with learning. And I think he was that at
(09:56):
a time when there was not a lot of that,
right like in the mid eighteen sixties in terms of
general lectures, probably not a lot of people trying to
reach out to folks that did not have a whole
lot of formal education and go, you know, you can
learn this stuff, right, yeah, which is pretty great. That was,
honestly one of the things that that frustrated me as
(10:17):
a child about the transition from elementary school to middle school,
because it felt like a lot of things in elementary
school that we're supposed to be fun, including the library,
we're not fun anymore. In middle school. They were work now,
Like our elementary school library was this bright, welcoming open
(10:38):
space with cozy places to read, and possibly influenced by
the fact that our the middle school was older than
the elementary school library was in terms of actual building,
the middle school library was dingy with shelves and rows
and hard tables to sit at, and the the shift
(10:59):
in approach from teaching a lot of things went from
here's a fun thing we're going to do, to sit
down and shut your mouth and learn. Right, it was
less about discovery and that's when it shifts to become
more about memorization. Yeah, yeah, that's part of what kills
it off. I know that's not the case with the
way a lot of people are teaching now, but that
was my experience growing up, right, And I mean when
(11:22):
you think about right like that that right up in
the Australian paper about like how many people learned practical
stuff from him that we can't ever quantify his influence
really since he was inviting people, you know, and so
is the Royal Polytechnic people that were you know, laborers
essentially in some cases to come and listen to a
(11:43):
lecture and learn about this thing. Like how many of
them gained a broader understanding of the world and we're
able to tackle things. Um. That also is a theme
that runs through his book For Boys and Science, which
much of it is for Boys and Science, which is problematic,
but also uh the blind spot of the times UM
(12:05):
is that like no, No, if you learn all these
things and you learn about how all of them work,
like you will be able to handle anything. It's very
much about like empowering people through learning, which I love. UM.
The other thing I wanted to mention, which is silly,
and I swear I don't mean to keep mentioning cocktails
all the time, but I wanted to mention to anybody
who might be going to Disney World. There's actually a
(12:28):
cocktail you can get in Disney World called Pepper's Ghost Fun.
They serve it at the Abrica Dab Bar, which is
on the boardwalk, and it's a magic themed bar, and
there's lots of references to illusionists in it. UH. And
it's got like pineapple vodka and hobaniro lime and it's
got a little uh I think it has a little
black pepper on top. It's quite a tasty beverage. My
husband sure likes it, so he is UM also memorialized
(12:55):
in the form of a libation. In addition to all
of the ways that his work is still being used today,
which goes back to my my other Friday UH commentary
on wanting to be remembered for cocktails. So now you go.
Pepper and I clearly have not a thing necessarily in common,
but a link in this way my aspirations. Uh. If
(13:19):
this is your weekend coming up, we hope that it
is filled with joy and delight and is smooth the
silkin that you get so much rest and fun packed
in without exhausting yourself. If you have obligations, like you
maybe have to work, or do you just have a
bunch of stuff you have to do, I hope it
goes as well as it possibly can, it is not stressful,
and that people are always nice to you. We will
(13:41):
see you right back here tomorrow with a classic, and
then we'll be back again on Monday with new shows.
Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Pie Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Tracy Wilson
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.