April 9, 2021 • 11 mins
Tracy and Holly discuss how the Rum Rebellion is less harrowing than other similar incidents that have been covered on the show. They then discuss the Images of America book series and how Jeremy Katz's book about Atlanta's Jewish history connects the past to the present.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You missed in History Class. A production
of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson
and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about the Rum Rebellion.
I don't I don't know why I had it in
(00:21):
my head so solidly that we had talked about this before,
and I even looked through, like I did a search
for the words rum rebellion in my giant folder of
old scripts for the show, trying to be like, did
we just mention it in passing in one of our
other related to Australia episodes, like maybe the Catalpa Mutiny
(00:41):
or maybe the Lady Julianna, like either of the NOE.
It just seems like, not, is there any chance your
brain is subbing it in for whiskey rebellion since it's
a spirit related It's no, definitely not definitely not. Uh
So yeah, um, this is definitely one of the more
(01:02):
ridiculous coups we've talked about, maybe the most ridiculous coup,
because most of the coups that we have talked about
on the show have been just horrifying and violent, and
this has, you know, horrifying context. We're talking about a
prison colony in Australia, But the actual circumstances of the
(01:23):
rebellion really seemed to be Bly did not go to
Australia to make friends, and there were people there who
had some really strong personalities already, and the actual coup
itself was minimally violence. There was only one person that
got hurt. And then you know, although Bly and his
(01:45):
daughter were kept on house arrest, they were also on
house arrest and what was effectively the governor's mansion. Right,
So on the spectrum of cous it's like, on the goofier,
less violent end of the it's less harrowing than many
that we've talked about. Yeah, it also is, I think
(02:05):
because so much of it boils down to kind of
petty bickering that gets out of control because of egos,
it just lends itself to a more jocular tone. Yeah. Yeah,
it's like he really liked rules. I mean, it's kind
of a sitcom, right, Like he really liked rules but
(02:26):
had a temper. He's like the boss that wants to
fix a very jumbled and messed up situation but doesn't
know how to do it in terms of interpersonal communications.
So they just sweep in and like erase all that
has gone before to institute new things, which never ever works.
No No. I also I was kind of fascinated by
(02:47):
the descriptions of his um his sort of harangue that
he would assault people with with the torrent of insults
and um I wish I had written down or or
bookmarked one of the things that it would just sort
of described what these were like, and it they just
(03:08):
in some ways just seemed like random, almost nonsensical torrents
of insults that were really demoralizing to the people who
were hearing them, in part because they just didn't they
didn't make sense, and they didn't fit with the way
people thought that officers should be disciplining anybody, oh humans
(03:29):
in their piccadillos. Yeah, if you look at pictures of
of William Bly, he also doesn't look like you might
imagine if your familiarity with with him is like fictional
depictions of the Mutiny on the Bounty, where he's kind
(03:50):
of this red faced, screaming tyrant. He looks like a
very pale person who somehow has managed to stay in
the shade his whole life, in spite of being the
captain of a ship and then living in Australia. Uh,
maybe he always had a really lovely umbrella or Paris
Hall said, uh yeah, I have a think a lot
(04:14):
about still tess of late, because I have been, you know,
studying how various spirits get made, and there's part of
me that just wants to go, like you guys, it's
not that hard. You could have made more. Um well,
and that was part of the thing was stills had
been outlawed and so they weren't supposed to have skills
at all. But you know, there's a whole long tradition
(04:38):
of the same classes of people who were transported to
Australia also knowing how to keep their still secret. Um.
So yeah, yeah, they probably had something there that would
have worked as a a base grain, yeah, to start
the whole process. Um, I don't know. I don't know
(05:03):
if sugarcane grows there, I don't know. Um, but you
don't need you can. You can make lots of other
spirits with other grains, any of which would have been
known to anybody that came from England. So right, and
we know that they we had previously talked about people
having io used that used tweet as currency, right, so
you can, man, I'm just imagining a whole now very
(05:27):
complicated monetary system for the colony of New South Wales,
overlapping between wheat and alcohol. Yes, So anyway, now you
know what's kind of weird connections. My brain will go
down these kinds of episode of So Tracy. This week
we had as a guest the wonderful and very charming
(05:49):
Jeremy Kat's show, which is just so delightful to get
to spend time with him and talk. Um. I was
so excited because it was kind of happening at the
same time we were getting that episode ready that he
got to talk about having picked up the Hebrew Bible
that John Assof had been sworn in on them, right, um,
(06:11):
And he mentioned that that that Bible had belonged to
Rabbi Rothschild. I don't remember if we connected the dots
really that like he was a civil rights leader, he
was the rabbi at the temple when it was bombed
in nine So it is a really interesting piece of
history for a number of reasons. And that they now
(06:31):
get to have it in their collection and share it
with people as this this monumental you know, prop sounds
demeaning to it. But this item, that's that's part of
the props of the world stage of like these very
vital moments in Jewish history and Atlanta. I don't know,
it's just very cool. History is still alive. We're making
(06:51):
it all the time. Um So, I went to that
museum once when I lived in Atlanta. I went there
with my friend Aaron, and they have an exhibit that is,
um like a history of the Jewish community in Atlanta
through a set of I think eighteen artifacts. There's a
number of artifacts, and then the temporary exhibit was on
(07:13):
Murray Sendec. Loved it so much. The other thing I
got really excited about when you told me you were
doing this interview is I am so fascinated by these
Images of America books that this book is part of.
Like anytime I walk into some random in the middle
(07:33):
of nowhere place that has a gift shop and the
gift shop has an Images of America book that is
about that specific places history, I'm just deeply fascinated by
I have. I have one of them on my desk
right now, which is about a place called break Heart Reservation,
which today is like a um a park with lots
(07:55):
of walking trails and a playground and and hiking in
that kind of thing. Um, having the whole history of it.
And as soon as you told me, I was like,
I'm incredibly just like I want to note number one,
Like I have this imagined world of like how how
(08:16):
it becomes, how these books come into existence in so
many places, um, And then anytime I see one, I
just want to look through it and take it home.
I would have a whole library of just imagism of
America books random places. They're really really good. And I
was glad that Jeremy shared with us kind of the
process of how that came to be a thing, and
(08:37):
and you know, he of course kind of had a
similar project in mind already, so he was a little
ahead of the game. But yeah, I mean it's one
of those things too, right. I have lived in Atlanta
for a long time now, with like thirty years, and
just flipping through it, you know, is an interesting walk,
not quite down memory lane, because many of these things
(08:58):
certainly predated my time here, but you see the things
that that continue to persist as part of Atlanta culture. Um.
One of the things that really kind of struck me.
It does not exist any longer. It has been absorbed
by a larger conglomerate. But Riches department store for the
very longest time was like and icon of Atlantic culture. Yeah.
(09:22):
And I worked in the Riches for years. I worked
in the salons there, and so to see pictures of
the original Riches, yeah, it just did something to my heart.
It's so wonderful. One of the other, like previous temporary
exhibits at the museum, like, was a history of Riches,
which I thought was really like. I didn't personally see
(09:43):
that one, but I thought it was really cool. It's
very very cool. Um. Yeah, you do sort of realize
how much how much Atlanta has been shaped by its
Jewish community in ways that we don't always appreciate. So
I was really happy to have him on with us.
We also made a deal after we finished recording that
once we are both vaccinated, I'm gonna go visit the
Freeman and he's going to give me a tour, which
(10:03):
I was private tour of a museum my my dream,
my dream scenarios. So we are going to go do
that and hopefully he'll let me take him to lunch
or something. But I hope people, I mean like you,
I love these books. I just think visually they offer
such an easy entry point to history and in ways
(10:23):
that they're all also always so well written, even though
there's limited text space. It's like whoever edits them to
be concise but also really clear and very um good
at conveying you know, really the importance and the significance
of what you're seeing is doing an a plus job.
Whoever the editors are on this series, kudos you so so.
(10:46):
Wherever you are and run into these, I highly recommend them.
And again, I'm just super grateful I had that conversation.
We hope that whatever the weekend has in store for you,
that it is delightful and enjoyable, and that you as
good a time as possible, and we will see you
right back here, starting tomorrow with a classic and then
next week with new episodes. Stuff you Missed in History
(11:13):
Class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff You missed in History Class. A production
of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson
and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about the Rum Rebellion.
I don't I don't know why I had it in
(00:21):
my head so solidly that we had talked about this before,
and I even looked through, like I did a search
for the words rum rebellion in my giant folder of
old scripts for the show, trying to be like, did
we just mention it in passing in one of our
other related to Australia episodes, like maybe the Catalpa Mutiny
(00:41):
or maybe the Lady Julianna, like either of the NOE.
It just seems like, not, is there any chance your
brain is subbing it in for whiskey rebellion since it's
a spirit related It's no, definitely not definitely not. Uh
So yeah, um, this is definitely one of the more
(01:02):
ridiculous coups we've talked about, maybe the most ridiculous coup,
because most of the coups that we have talked about
on the show have been just horrifying and violent, and
this has, you know, horrifying context. We're talking about a
prison colony in Australia, But the actual circumstances of the
(01:23):
rebellion really seemed to be Bly did not go to
Australia to make friends, and there were people there who
had some really strong personalities already, and the actual coup
itself was minimally violence. There was only one person that
got hurt. And then you know, although Bly and his
(01:45):
daughter were kept on house arrest, they were also on
house arrest and what was effectively the governor's mansion. Right,
So on the spectrum of cous it's like, on the goofier,
less violent end of the it's less harrowing than many
that we've talked about. Yeah, it also is, I think
(02:05):
because so much of it boils down to kind of
petty bickering that gets out of control because of egos,
it just lends itself to a more jocular tone. Yeah. Yeah,
it's like he really liked rules. I mean, it's kind
of a sitcom, right, Like he really liked rules but
(02:26):
had a temper. He's like the boss that wants to
fix a very jumbled and messed up situation but doesn't
know how to do it in terms of interpersonal communications.
So they just sweep in and like erase all that
has gone before to institute new things, which never ever works.
No No. I also I was kind of fascinated by
(02:47):
the descriptions of his um his sort of harangue that
he would assault people with with the torrent of insults
and um I wish I had written down or or
bookmarked one of the things that it would just sort
of described what these were like, and it they just
(03:08):
in some ways just seemed like random, almost nonsensical torrents
of insults that were really demoralizing to the people who
were hearing them, in part because they just didn't they
didn't make sense, and they didn't fit with the way
people thought that officers should be disciplining anybody, oh humans
(03:29):
in their piccadillos. Yeah, if you look at pictures of
of William Bly, he also doesn't look like you might
imagine if your familiarity with with him is like fictional
depictions of the Mutiny on the Bounty, where he's kind
(03:50):
of this red faced, screaming tyrant. He looks like a
very pale person who somehow has managed to stay in
the shade his whole life, in spite of being the
captain of a ship and then living in Australia. Uh,
maybe he always had a really lovely umbrella or Paris
Hall said, uh yeah, I have a think a lot
(04:14):
about still tess of late, because I have been, you know,
studying how various spirits get made, and there's part of
me that just wants to go, like you guys, it's
not that hard. You could have made more. Um well,
and that was part of the thing was stills had
been outlawed and so they weren't supposed to have skills
at all. But you know, there's a whole long tradition
(04:38):
of the same classes of people who were transported to
Australia also knowing how to keep their still secret. Um.
So yeah, yeah, they probably had something there that would
have worked as a a base grain, yeah, to start
the whole process. Um, I don't know. I don't know
(05:03):
if sugarcane grows there, I don't know. Um, but you
don't need you can. You can make lots of other
spirits with other grains, any of which would have been
known to anybody that came from England. So right, and
we know that they we had previously talked about people
having io used that used tweet as currency, right, so
you can, man, I'm just imagining a whole now very
(05:27):
complicated monetary system for the colony of New South Wales,
overlapping between wheat and alcohol. Yes, So anyway, now you
know what's kind of weird connections. My brain will go
down these kinds of episode of So Tracy. This week
we had as a guest the wonderful and very charming
(05:49):
Jeremy Kat's show, which is just so delightful to get
to spend time with him and talk. Um. I was
so excited because it was kind of happening at the
same time we were getting that episode ready that he
got to talk about having picked up the Hebrew Bible
that John Assof had been sworn in on them, right, um,
(06:11):
And he mentioned that that that Bible had belonged to
Rabbi Rothschild. I don't remember if we connected the dots
really that like he was a civil rights leader, he
was the rabbi at the temple when it was bombed
in nine So it is a really interesting piece of
history for a number of reasons. And that they now
(06:31):
get to have it in their collection and share it
with people as this this monumental you know, prop sounds
demeaning to it. But this item, that's that's part of
the props of the world stage of like these very
vital moments in Jewish history and Atlanta. I don't know,
it's just very cool. History is still alive. We're making
(06:51):
it all the time. Um So, I went to that
museum once when I lived in Atlanta. I went there
with my friend Aaron, and they have an exhibit that is,
um like a history of the Jewish community in Atlanta
through a set of I think eighteen artifacts. There's a
number of artifacts, and then the temporary exhibit was on
(07:13):
Murray Sendec. Loved it so much. The other thing I
got really excited about when you told me you were
doing this interview is I am so fascinated by these
Images of America books that this book is part of.
Like anytime I walk into some random in the middle
(07:33):
of nowhere place that has a gift shop and the
gift shop has an Images of America book that is
about that specific places history, I'm just deeply fascinated by
I have. I have one of them on my desk
right now, which is about a place called break Heart Reservation,
which today is like a um a park with lots
(07:55):
of walking trails and a playground and and hiking in
that kind of thing. Um, having the whole history of it.
And as soon as you told me, I was like,
I'm incredibly just like I want to note number one,
Like I have this imagined world of like how how
(08:16):
it becomes, how these books come into existence in so
many places, um, And then anytime I see one, I
just want to look through it and take it home.
I would have a whole library of just imagism of
America books random places. They're really really good. And I
was glad that Jeremy shared with us kind of the
process of how that came to be a thing, and
(08:37):
and you know, he of course kind of had a
similar project in mind already, so he was a little
ahead of the game. But yeah, I mean it's one
of those things too, right. I have lived in Atlanta
for a long time now, with like thirty years, and
just flipping through it, you know, is an interesting walk,
not quite down memory lane, because many of these things
(08:58):
certainly predated my time here, but you see the things
that that continue to persist as part of Atlanta culture. Um.
One of the things that really kind of struck me.
It does not exist any longer. It has been absorbed
by a larger conglomerate. But Riches department store for the
very longest time was like and icon of Atlantic culture. Yeah.
(09:22):
And I worked in the Riches for years. I worked
in the salons there, and so to see pictures of
the original Riches, yeah, it just did something to my heart.
It's so wonderful. One of the other, like previous temporary
exhibits at the museum, like, was a history of Riches,
which I thought was really like. I didn't personally see
(09:43):
that one, but I thought it was really cool. It's
very very cool. Um. Yeah, you do sort of realize
how much how much Atlanta has been shaped by its
Jewish community in ways that we don't always appreciate. So
I was really happy to have him on with us.
We also made a deal after we finished recording that
once we are both vaccinated, I'm gonna go visit the
Freeman and he's going to give me a tour, which
(10:03):
I was private tour of a museum my my dream,
my dream scenarios. So we are going to go do
that and hopefully he'll let me take him to lunch
or something. But I hope people, I mean like you,
I love these books. I just think visually they offer
such an easy entry point to history and in ways
(10:23):
that they're all also always so well written, even though
there's limited text space. It's like whoever edits them to
be concise but also really clear and very um good
at conveying you know, really the importance and the significance
of what you're seeing is doing an a plus job.
Whoever the editors are on this series, kudos you so so.
(10:46):
Wherever you are and run into these, I highly recommend them.
And again, I'm just super grateful I had that conversation.
We hope that whatever the weekend has in store for you,
that it is delightful and enjoyable, and that you as
good a time as possible, and we will see you
right back here, starting tomorrow with a classic and then
next week with new episodes. Stuff you Missed in History
(11:13):
Class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Tracy Wilson
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