June 15, 2020 • 46 mins
Holly chats with Sheffield Hale and Michael Rose of the Atlanta History Center about pandemic from the point of view of a living history institution, and also how the AHC, like many history centers, is documenting Covid-19.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production
of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And back
in May, when COVID nineteen was still the dominant force
in the news cycle, I had the chance to talk
(00:23):
to two people from the Atlanta History Center, where their
entire team has been finding ways to capture information and
artifacts related to the pandemic to ensure that future generations
have access to a really robust record of this unique time.
We mentioned this collection project pretty briefly in one of
our previous episodes, but Holly got in touch and asked
(00:44):
if they would like to talk at more length about
this effort, as well as what it's like to figure
out how to keep a living history museum going and
fulfilling its whole mission when you have to be closed
to the public. And so this first interview is with
Sheffield Hale, the President and chief executive officer of the
Atlanta History Center, and Sheffield and I talked about everything
from the History Center's living collection to how the pandemic
(01:08):
is going to impact the way workforces function in the future.
So here is Sheffield so Sheffield, My co host and
I have spoken on the show about the points where
each of us realized that this pandemic was happening at
a level that was going to directly impact our daily lives.
But I'm curious what that moment is like from an
institutional perspective, where staff and community are significant factors to
(01:31):
think about, Like, when did you realize that this was
going to fundamentally change business operations for the History Center?
I guess it's probably the friday that we closed. I
finally realized it. It was sort of like a slow
motion role of watching this happen across the country, watching
other museums, not wanting to be the first, not wanting
(01:53):
to be the last, trying to gauge public opinion of
the safety of your staff first, and uh, it's it
reminds you a little bit of a when we see
its snow coming right for a snow day. Yeah, you're
you're trying to figure it out, and you're watching what
everybody else is doing, and then all of a sudden,
(02:13):
there's a big rush and everybody gets in their car
and they leave and there's a traffic Well that's what
happened um with in terms of people closing. Uh. Did
the History Center already have a disaster plan in place?
I know they have them in place, but one that
would cover a situation like a pandemic or did you
guys have to put a plan together to deal with
(02:34):
this kind of as it was happening. Well, we did
it on on the fly in some respects. We had
a plan for remote working because we had a plan
that the campus was closed. Um, it wasn't because of
the pandemic, but it or it could have been because
of the power outages which we have a lot of
in Atlanta because in a lot of trees around there,
or tornado or hurricane some extended period of time, or
(02:57):
there had been a you know, a loss of a building.
So we had you know, redundant systems for all the technology,
for all everything that we store, all of the data
and the information um that we have. We had all that.
So it really worked well for a pandemic because but
all that is is working remotely. Um. And so we
(03:18):
but we operated on the flights. You know, we went
to you're going from seventy to zero and and then
it's like, well we can all work from home. Now
what do we do? Right? Um, and how can we
be productive? And that was what we had to really
improvise at the time. And uh, and I'm really pleased
(03:40):
and proud of what came out of it. Um. What
are the steps involved for closing a place like the
History Center for an unknown period of time because there
are a lot of different types of collections there, there
are a lot of events that happened there, etcetera. What
preparations have to be made so that everything can be
taken care of when most of the staff is not
on site. So he had the events started, you know,
(04:03):
you know, canceling one after another. There are a few
you know, weddings that were in May that it took
a while for people to reach reality in terms of
you know, acceptance, you have to go through the stags
of grief there, um in June, but we were able
to work through all those and rebook most of those
and UM and most of everybody was understanding about that.
(04:25):
In terms of the museum itself, We've got to keep it,
you know, you know, we've got to keep the security,
we've got to keep the humidity, air conditioning and all
that going on for the artifacts both in our archives
but also in the museum itself are historic houses that
we have living collections. We have goats and sheep and
perkeys and and rhodein and red chickens that all have
(04:48):
to be fed and um, and they have two stalls
have to be cleaned. Um. All that has to happen
during the pandemic. And then we have the other living collections,
all of the flowers and uh plants that have to
be tend it too. UM. So we had to work
out away for our gardeners to be socially distant when
they were you know, coming back and use their own tools.
(05:08):
And we went through this whole elaborate criteria of you know,
looking around the country and other botanical gardens figure out
what they were doing. Were there any special things that
you had to do for the living collections. I'm very
worried about the animals. I want to make sure they're
all good. Well, we made sure we had redundancy in
terms of who knew how to feed them and how
(05:31):
much and when, um, and that they didn't need each
other and that you know, we went through all of
this elaborate you know, you bring your own lunch, you know,
bring your own tools, don't use anybody else to a
person can use this card or that card. These bathrooms
are designated for each of you. Uh, I mean, you
know it's we went, you know, it's because it's a
(05:53):
certain group here, certain group there. So one group got
infected that wouldn't impact the other group. And so we
you know, we said, you know, a lot of time
figuring that out, and a lot of it's on the fly,
and we hadn't been through this. But you know, that's
that's the great thing about having friends all over the
country and learning from them and friends across the street,
(06:15):
you know, the Lanta Botanical Garden down the road. So
in my head, I'm picturing this wild spreadsheet of who
can be where women use what that I'm I may
be um overthinking that way. No you're not, unfortunately, UM.
I hope you're preserving that wild spreadsheet as part of
the the historical record, actually, like I legitimately do, because
(06:38):
that's one of those things people don't think about that
seem maybe mundane and not really part of a pandemic prep.
But that's part of how we all get through. Right.
This is the Green Party and this's the Red Party
right right. What has been the hardest part of all
of this. You said you had planned for work from
home for very temporary closures like a power outage, but
(07:00):
this is a temporary closure that is longer in length
and probably larger in scope than you guys normally have.
What's been the biggest challenge, Well, the biggest challenge and
the biggest hit long term is going to be financially,
you know, because if you know, we had all of
these events planned that UM as part of our revenue.
(07:20):
UM in the spring and the early summer is a
is a peak time you know for both weddings and
other other events, and that went away. Now they've been rescheduled,
but they're in another fiscal year and they may or
may not happen, and if they do happen, they probably
happen in smaller groups. UM. So we're having to budget
next year based on that. The Swan House Ball has
(07:43):
now been postponed to September. We hope we'll be able
to have it, then we may not, we don't know.
UM Our biggest event honoring you know, Lovett Russell, who's
just one of them great humans in Atlanta, so that
you know, through webs out and you know, but all
those things and then admissions and the school tours and
all those things interrupted just zero. So on the revenue side,
(08:07):
you had that. Now what we did realize is that
we can continue to do our mission in the interim remotely.
And you know, the whole mantra about do not waste
a crisis, um, I bought into that. I'm you know,
completely say Okay, if we're gonna be closed, we're gonna
accomplish a lot. Let's get everything that's done that's on
my list. Now we have no excuses. You know, we're
(08:29):
working on a new strategic plan. We've got an interpretive plan,
collections plan, collecting plan, finish them. Now is the time,
no more excuses. What can we do in terms of
our backlog of veterans oral histories, Let's put the as
many people as we can on transcribing those. And so
(08:50):
people from the front desk, people you know who are
helping in that area. We're now transcribing oral histories and
another group is proofing them the transcriptions. So we're doing
those kinds of things. And the educators who are supposed
to be dealing with school kids are now producing videos
that we put up online for kids to be able
to do activities at home and we'll have those forever.
(09:12):
So a lot of that we are able to capture
and in the last two months of the year. And
and but to make sure that we we used the
time as effectively as possible. And I've made sure that.
When I first got here, one of the senior people said,
of Cheffield, why are you always in a hurry? And
I've learned that folks in the in the history world
(09:34):
a lot of times historically have worked on Jurassic Time.
I came out of you I'm a lawyer, right, so
I came out of you know, six minute inferments on
time sheets and dealing with that in every minute counted, um.
And then I was at the American Cancer Society and
we were in a hurry to try to cure cancer.
And I'm mission driven, and so you know, we're in
(09:56):
a hurry. Um. You know in in so we're in
a pandemic. Great, now we have time to clear out
all that crap that you say you don't have time for.
We're gonna get it done and we're gonna have time
to think and it's gonna be great. And guess what
it's It has been very productive and the big surprising
thing is how busy we've all been. Yeah, you know,
(10:18):
I can't. I try to cancel some meetings and just said, well,
what will your reschedule it for an hour? I mean
they're booked all day, you know, And I understand it's
like damn you know, and you get off of you'll
get off these damn zoom meetings that you know the
end of the day. So where did it go? So
it's been it's been really in fascinating that way. That
(10:40):
is really interesting. I mean, I I feel like we
have had kind of the same experience in our podcasting,
but a lot of that has been because we all
started working from home, setting up our own little mini
studios and stuff. So we're one of the few kind
of media outlets that didn't have to really miss a
beat in terms of transition. But it's interesting to hear
(11:02):
how quickly your team made that shift and found themselves
perhaps busier than ever getting through all of these projects.
That's probably got to feel great to get that to
do list checked off. Yeah, I have another list. Oh,
Sheffield is a whip cracker. No, it's gonna feel it's
gonna feel great, and we are making real progress and
(11:25):
we have made some you know, we've had a few
minor epiphanies along the way, and it's been great. Now
you are, of course in charge of this large facility
and all of its people and its living collections, etcetera.
And how do you balance out managing all of the
needs and logistics of the history center with the needs
of yourself and your family at a time that is
(11:46):
weird and unprecedented and stressful in ways I think none
of us can really prepare for. You know, it has
been a lot more stressful, and it manifests us off
in different ways. And I've anticipated and in part because
the weather has been so good and everything has been
so beautiful. It's been so surreal. You step outside and
(12:08):
you say, this can't be. We can't be in a pandemic.
It's just too nice. So the whole groundhog day effect
um can wear on you. You know. I'm you know,
like I said, I used to ask practicing law, you know,
for a long time, and I'm used to highly stressful situations.
I'm used to, you know, ignoring my family and and
(12:30):
being a bad father. Um. But the good news is
is that you know, nobody's home anymore. They're all, you know,
in their late twenties and early thirties, and it's just myself,
my wife, and my dog Baxter, who's very thrilled to
have me at home all day long. So it's been interesting.
I've actually been able to see more of my children
(12:51):
because we you know, we feel comfortable, you know, having
a mini quarantine pod, but they're not living under my roof.
Is the History Center looking back at like their historical
knowledge and research about pandemics, this is not the first
pandemic to happen to kind of help both the Center
and the community understand the trajectory of this one and
(13:13):
like contextualize what we're living through right now. Well, you know,
the first thing that we're doing is was beginning to
collect in real time, you know, with our Corona collective.
And part of that's reflective of the fact that you
look at our collections, there's not much from pandemic and
flu pandemic um and the couple of reasons to that
(13:34):
one we were found in n But the main reason
is that people didn't keep um ordinary items from that
time because it's something they got through and they wanted
to move on. And also it was into the First
World war, and you know, there were other things going
on at the same time, and people just wanted to
(13:56):
push through it. So I think there were a lot
of you know, learnings, there's you know, there's a lot
there's a lot of history that's in the newspapers and
other places that you can go back and read about. Um,
but you're not hearing as much about what happened to
ordinary people. That might be more instructive is to how,
for example, practices may change in the future as a
result of this. We all assume that, you know, our
(14:20):
world has changed forever and we're not going to go
back to certain practices. Well we don't necessarily know that,
but probably true in many areas. But we can't predict
the future. Um. All we can do is collect the
present and then let other people gather in twenty year,
thirty years and say, oh, that's when that happened, that's
(14:41):
when they finally got clean bathrooms. What has been the
biggest surprise in all of this for you, because there
have to have been things that just took you completely
off guard. Well, first of all, the remote working worked
as well as it has, or it seems to have.
I've always been a skeptic about that unless somebody was
(15:01):
a piece worker and or a lawyer, you could count
their hours that they spent doing something or you know,
task it was performed in an area where there's not
anything necessarily tangible to be delivered. It's it's hard to
manage remotely and feel like you're charged in a traditional way.
I think a lot of those prejudices are breaking down
(15:22):
and that you're seeing people are actually very effective working
remotely and can get a lot done. And I don't
think it's at the end of the office yet, because
I do think that there's something about being able to
have some camaraderie and be with other people, and you
can't accomplish a lot that way, and then there's a
lot of your identity that way. But it won't be
(15:44):
it probably won't be the same. And if you could
get a trigal diet like me to believe that remote
working works, I mean it must be really taken off.
It's interesting to think about how this moment will be
perceived in terms of workforce by future generations. Lastly, because
you are, you know, the head of an organization that
(16:07):
takes care to manage, you know information about the past
and use that, you know, as a form of education
and as part of community building. I wonder what you're
hoping we will all take away from this experience when
it's part of our history. You know. What we try
to do the Atlanta History Center is connect people history
(16:27):
and culture. And what we're trying to do is to
let people get some perspective connectivity their own community and
somebody people's other ideas, and connect them to the city
somehow through history. I think what this pandemic is shown
is that we're really all connected together in so many ways,
(16:47):
and and that we really need to understand that, you know,
in terms, it's it's biological, it's spatial, you know what's
with these you know, the virus shows how interconnected we
are and how dependent we are on each other, and
that we can't just you know, all drive into our
little cult of sacs and sit in our great room
(17:09):
and ignore each other. And we that we actually have
to come out onto the street and be able to
interact with each other positive way. That shows it we
respect the fact that somebody else is entitled to be
there as well. It's not just about us. And I
think like a lot of people are going to learn
that from this pandemics. But you know, people have a
(17:32):
way of learning things that quickly forgetting them. This is true.
Fingers crossed fingers. That will be a lesson that sticks. Sheffield,
thank you so much for spending time with me today.
I really appreciate it. It's been a great pleasure. Thank you, um,
and thank you always to the History Center for all
the amazing work you guys do. I love that place,
so I'm always always happy and it's always a treat
(17:53):
to talk to everybody from there. We'll be back soon. Yeah.
The second interview is with Michael Rose, chief Mission Officer
and Executive vice President for Collections and Exhibitions. So first off,
(18:14):
will you tell us exactly what it is you do
at the Atlanta History Center. I had the title of
Chief Mission Officer and Executive vice President for Collections and Exhibitions,
and what I like to tell people is I get
to do the fund stuff. So as mission officer, I'm
involved with the mission of the organization, which is everything
(18:40):
from historic gardens to our research center. All of our
collections be that photographs are documents, artifacts, three dimensional objects,
living collections like the gardens and the animals at Smith
Farm and we develop the product as it were, for
(19:04):
the public, and that can be exhibitions and a wide
variety of other visitor experiences. But that's why I say,
I get to do the fun stuff. I work with
very creative people, very dedicated in conducting research and developing
what that experience is going to be. So right now
you are heading up a really interesting project, which is
(19:24):
why I wanted to talk to you today, called the
Corona Collective. Will you tell us what that is? The
mission of the institution is to collect, preserve, interpret, and
provide access to the stuff of history, and so much
of the focus of historical agencies like the Allen History
(19:45):
Centers often seen as acquiring historical quote unquote artifacts that
in one sense may already be understood as being old
by people and family photographs, business records, and effects associated
normally without a variety of people, places, and events, and
(20:06):
many people see these in relationship to collecting in order
to document large events such as the Vietnam War, the
Olympic Games, or to document significant social change like the
civil rights movement, the suffrage movement, or quote unquote gay rights,
and in addition, institutions also collect the more mundane items
(20:32):
documenting the sort of essence of the daily life. And
these are artifacts that are the most ephemeral, and to
one extent, one thinks about their importance and understanding what
it means to really live in a moment in time.
And these are the things that are normally disposed of
(20:53):
because they're used up and and thrown away. And so
looking at this particular point in time, we have a
large event happened now that and I think everybody agrees,
will signify a social change. We're living in a new world, right,
So we look at this as an opportunity to conduct
(21:16):
contemporary collecting, and that in a sense is predicting the
future because instead of instead of collecting what's old, we're
collecting what we think the future will think is old.
And that can be difficult. So you you attempt to
(21:36):
do it in a way that um, somebody in the
future can make a decision. You tend to overcollect in
order to ensure that you have the adequate material that
somebody in the future in a number of years can
determine whether or not something actually does have cultural significance
in some way. At this moment in time, what we
(21:58):
decided to do was, uh, this Corona Collective is crowd
collecting and because in one aspect, we can't go out
ourselves as staff of the Atlanta History Center to fulfill
our mission to collect the cultural material of our community.
(22:22):
So we're looking upon the community to help us do that.
And so we established this online it's it's at Atlanta
History Center dot com Corona Collective to allow the public
too upload material in a variety of formats onto our
(22:45):
website to help us collect the material in this moment
in time. And I think that the one thing is
that looking on this big because mobile devices are what
we live with. And what I was telling one person
(23:05):
was that isolated as we are at this moment in
time with the pandemic, that those mobile devices are how
we are communicating one to another through a variety of
virtual platforms to have meetings and with our our phones
(23:28):
to take photographs and to communicate with friends through a
variety again online platforms like Facebook and Instagram and and others.
And so, as I said to somebody, this is this
is how I live, This is how I communicate, this
is how I survive because at this moment in time,
it's it's that social media. It's that that social mobile
(23:51):
platform that allows us to reconnect to the world from
this isolated pandemics space that we're all right, and we
can use all of that material that everybody is living
with to document what's happening. And so we're providing a
platform on our website for people to upload this material
(24:12):
to help us document, like I said, this moment in
times pandemic. And so that's what the Corona Collective is.
It's crowd collecting for contemporary collecting um in order to
document life as it is right now. And that includes
quote unquote major things low that you would think of,
(24:33):
such as the restrictions by state and local governments and
things like that. But it's also is that what I
referred to is that mundane documentation of our daily lives.
It's um. Well, let me just say that this is
this is the online component. Is is only part of
the initiative because in addition to that, the staff is
(24:57):
still going out on their own social dis and sing
and wearing masks to document this with their own level
devices and in other ways and collecting artifacts that we
know that we want to keep. So we're keeping a
list of those artifacts that we can collect now that
we can collect after the restrictions are lifted and we're
(25:19):
able to get out again. And um, we're also asking
certain individuals in different professions or fields to document there
experiences as well. Um, my niece is a nurse in
a hospital. I have a nephew who is a firefighter.
(25:43):
So we're talking to first responders and asking them to
specifically document their experiences. We have one young man who
was an intern at the Atlanta History Center and he
had been called up to the National Guard and assigned
to Charlotte to help locate possible sites in Charlotte for
(26:04):
temporary hospitals. So he is documenting his experience as well.
But in this collecting getting getting back to the mount,
the mundane part. I joke with someone about, you know,
at some point there will be an exhibition about all
of this, and I can, I can, I can envision
(26:25):
in this this gallery space at the Atlanta History Center,
the display case with the the bonnet, the glass bonnet
on top of it, and inside with the light shining
at from above is a roll of toilet paper because
that is is one of that is one of the
(26:46):
symbolic items of this A bottle of hand sanitizers, homemade masks. Uh,
these are the sorts of things that we're thinking about
collecting because they are so symbolic of what we're all
living with right now. Oh, that sounds actually kind of amazing.
(27:08):
I'm picturing someone from the future stumbling into that section
of a display and just being like, toilet paper, what
is this about? Um? But boy, hasn't been an important
part of this experience for a lot of people. Um.
And you're right, it is a symbol of all of
this that we don't necessarily think of in that way.
Everyone's concerned about having it, but we really don't think
(27:29):
about how that is going to be a touchstone of
the descriptors of this many many years from now. You
mentioned that that your staff is going out and you know,
practicing safe safe practices, but collecting artifacts. What kind of
artifacts are they collecting? Well, they are they are actually
collecting the toilet paper and the hand sanitizers. You know,
(27:53):
we're lucky in Atlanta to have a series of distilleries,
and so I don't know if you're aware of it,
some of the distilleries in town have turned to making
hand sanitizers from the alcohol that they have at their
at their disposal and so they're they're putting the that
(28:17):
hand sanitizing that they're creating intto hump bottles, and they're
branding them with their distillery name. And so we're like,
we're collecting that sort of that sort of artifact. And
I had I do have one staff member. She didn't
have to leave her house to collect this because she
had in her house and she has promised to donate
(28:39):
the teddy bears that she placed in her window. That
are you aware of that? Yeah, that that placing teddy
bears because that activity in neighborhoods is something that kids
can get out of the house and go around and
it becomes a hunt to find the teddy bears. Right,
other people have been putting you know, homemade paper hearts
(29:01):
in their windows and things like that. So that's that's
the sort of thing that at this point in time
we're looking to collect. In addition to creating a larger
list of what we might be looking for, is as
well then we can't access at this point in time. Now.
(29:24):
You also mentioned um specifically like that you're documenting our
our local and state uh you know, government advisories, etcetera.
I know there are other institutions doing similar projects. Has
there been any discussion with the Atlanta History Center with
other institutions about sharing this kind of information or creating
(29:45):
a more massive collective, or do you think there will
be at some point, you know, some cooperative effort to
combine these things to make a fuller picture of life
in the US. We're certainly aware of the larger effort
by other institutions to also document the coronavirus pandemic, and
(30:07):
those are all being done in a variety of ways.
I'm aware of The Historic New Orleans Collection is using
an automated system to collect tweets, and so they have
advised people to use a use a particular hashtag so
(30:28):
that they it would be easier for their system to
identify and collect those for their system. Other institutions are
asking people to simply um, send them a an email
and let them know what they have and and let
the staff contact them again. UM. The Indiana Historical Society
(30:50):
is doing something very similar to what we're doing and
allowing the public to upload a variety of formats for
digital content. UM. We've at this point in time, we've
received about close to a hundred and fifty individual donations
and over four hundred digital files, and that can be
(31:12):
everything from UM, a written document that is uploaded, and
that can be a description from somebody who has who
has suffered from the virus or someone who has caring
for somebody who is suffering from the virus. Two poetry
(31:33):
and other formats and videos UM and photographs. So it's
been a wide variety of content that that we have
been receiving. There's not an essential coordinated effort between institutions.
I don't think at this particular point in time that
any of us are competing one against another. We we
(31:56):
do try to talk to other institutions in the LA
area to ensure sometimes that if we're collecting a particular
subject area or if you think of a community or neighborhood,
that we're not competing in some way. But I don't
think at this particular point in time with with this
subject matter, with with the Corona, that we're competing in
(32:20):
any way. But I think that in the future, if
there's ever an effort to for us, for US or
other institutions to have programming, certainly with exhibitions UM and
with with developing other product as I referred to it
for the visitor experience. There's always the opportunity to find
out what somebody else has and to borrow um that
(32:45):
for an exhibition or access photographs or you know, textual
content or something like that to to add it to
whatever we're doing. Very cool. What is going to happen
to all of these materials once they're admitted? The Corona
Collective on our website is as I as I mentioned,
is one part of a larger initiative to document the
(33:09):
Corona virus pandemic. The material that's supplied online by the
public is uploaded, and there's a we have to go
through the technical aspects. There's a release form that everybody
has to complete, and anyone under a team has to
have permission signed by by parents. Anything that's uploaded becomes
(33:36):
the property of the Atlanta History Center allow us to use,
and we don't. We don't guarantee to to use or
save absolutely everything, but it does become part of the
collection of the Atlanta History Center, and in two ways,
we preserve that for our own use and exit vision
(34:00):
or online content as well as as part of our
research collection. Also making that available to the public to
be able to access to use for research or other
methods so that if somebody was using if somebody was
creating a documentary about the pandemic and they were looking
(34:23):
at Atlanta, they could come to the Atlanta History Center,
they could review these materials, and they could possibly use
any of this content in creating a documentary. And I
just I used that It's just one example of how
the public I might be able to access this material
and use it themselves working with the Atlanta History Center
(34:44):
in some format, in addition to the History Center using
it as as the institution. So I have to ask,
do you have a favorite item that has been submitted
so far? That's um, that's the that's the hard one,
because they're they're all great. Um. Just getting the submissions
(35:07):
has been I have been has been rewarding that the
people are doing this, and frankly, we've been very very
pleased with the response that this has this has received.
One thing that we haven't received yet is that we
are working with a local school and the students have
(35:27):
been assigned a project to create their own digital journals
to be able to supply. We haven't received those yet,
but I think up to sixties students have been tasked
with with doing this. I look forward to saying that.
I think that at this point in time, probably the
thing that was most moving for me was one of
(35:50):
the very earliest donations that we received, and that was
simply the story of a woman who had the virus
and and she just she discussed the difficulty she had
and obtaining medical assistance in getting a test to find
(36:16):
out if she actually had the virus, and then and
then her description of suffering through it and she recovered
and supplied this to us. It's it's a moving document
to read and to understand the loneliness um of this.
(36:37):
And that's another aspect that my niece, who I mentioned
earlier is a nurse, and her discussion of the fact
that people are dying alone and she has to be
there and help those people because family and friends can't
be there with them in this pandemic, and how difficult
(36:59):
that is for people to suffer through. It's interesting because
I wonder if all of these people who contribute, surely
they have some sense of it, but if they really
realize how incredibly important and meaningful all of this is
going to be down the road when these are really
like the truest words you could speak are those of
(37:20):
someone experiencing a moment. It's fascinating to me and I
hope they understand the gravity of just I hope, I
hope they do. UM. The fact that they are taking
that effort to make this documentation to help us with
this is meaningful. I think that one aspect again is
that the fact that these are the voices of people
(37:42):
who are living at this moment in time. And so
many people think of history as being name states and places,
and that's um and it's not about memorizing those facts.
It's about understanding how people lived, and it's and the
relevance of that to our lives today. Having more voices
(38:08):
that can represent that experience just adds to the complexity
and understanding of history. And so, yes, this will be
in the past, and somebody in the future will be
making a decision about what to keep or not to
keep from our contemporary collecting, but they'll have a wealth
(38:28):
of material to choose from from a wide variety of people,
and I think that's a very important aspect. So last question,
do you stay pretty objective about it or do you
have a hope of how all of this will be
seen in a hundred years A hundred and fifty years, etcetera.
(38:48):
Do you think about the legacy of the work you're
doing right now or is that too heavy? I M
that's a hard one. That's sorry, okay, um. I think
I think about in one aspect. I think I think
about this as it's my job, and so I do it.
(39:13):
It's but that's not to say that it becomes a
a hump drum, daily exertion or or something. Because what
we do, we understand the people that I've worked with
that it's a mission and it's cause. And I think
(39:36):
that despite the day today aspects of a of a job,
we know that the job we're doing is rewarding and
we know that it serves a purpose. I let me
give one example, and that's from our Veterans History Project,
which is an ongoing oral history project that we have
(39:56):
in documenting the experience of veterans in a variety of conflicts,
and obviously one of those is World War Two. And
at this point in time, so many of the veterans
from World War Two are dying, and so we are
(40:17):
we're working diligently at this point in time to document
as many as we can. We have had a few
experiences recently in which some veterans who had been interviewed
in the last few years had passed away, and we
(40:38):
have received communication from family members, children, grandchildren who then
came across the recordings because the veterans get a copy
of their their interview, and we get that response from
from family members about how much that means to have
(41:01):
that voice telling that story, and so um we work
at the stage today, but but we understand the importance
of it, and I can tell you it's it's a
very rewarding job that we did. So one day people
will be talking about the remaining people who lived through
(41:22):
this moment in time, and we'll have this amazing collective
that you guys have put together. So thank you for that. Well,
thank you, Michael. Thank you so much for sitting with
me today and being so patient with all of our
technical issues and just being a delight in sharing your
knowledge with us. It's really important, so I appreciate it.
(41:43):
Thank you. One of the really unique aspects of this
set of interviews is how both Sheffield and Michael spoke
about the social change that was likely to come from
living through the pandemic. But of course, little did any
of us know when we were having these talks that
just we away was an entirely different and very profound
moment of potential for social change. So it is almost
(42:07):
a historically interesting thing in terms of looking at recent
history because we see how quickly our mindset shifted from
focusing on this one thing to a whole other set
of things that now are compounding together. So thanks again
to the Atlanta History Center and to Sheffield and Michael
for taking the time with Holly, and Howard Posner, who's
(42:27):
their manager of media relations, who helped Holly get these
talks arranged and scheduled. You can check out what's happening
currently at the Atlanta History Center at Atlanta History Center
dot com, and you can participate in their crowdsourced Corona
Collective by visiting Atlanta History Center dot com slash research
(42:47):
slash Corona dash Collective. And the History Center has also
been doing some really good virtual programming throughout the shutdown.
If you are listening to this episode on the day
it comes out, which is June five, there is actually
a virtual talk scheduled tonight with Stacy Abrams that is
sure to be really amazing. Uh. If you want to
(43:07):
get in on that go to their page and search
for it. I think it's on their front page right now.
You do have to make an online purchase of her
new book to get access to that event. That's kind
of like what your ticket becomes. Uh, and you end
up getting assigned a book I think in the mail.
But check that out for more details. And again, I
super want to thank Howard and Sheffield and Michael all
for helping us put together this picture. It's UM. I
(43:31):
am very excited at the prospect of their exhibit with
a roll of toilet paper front and center with a
spotlight on it that Michael talked about. UM. I also
have listener mail which is related UH. And this listener
didn't really want me to necessarily mention their name. They
said that they were shy, but they wanted to bring
to our attention a cool project that is going on.
(43:54):
I will read their email in part and hopefully that
will be cool. Uh and they will mind. UH. They're
write longtime listener, first time writer. Thank you so much
for keeping us informed and entertained during this challenging time.
I was really excited to hear you discuss the Corona
Collective project at the Atlanta History Center because there is
a similar COVID nineteen journaling project at the Wisconsin Historical Society,
(44:18):
which this person has some connections to, and UH, they write,
I know that museums and historical societies around the world
how similar projects in the work right now, and I
feel so proud and inspired by how historians archivists at
all are using their resources to keep people engaged and
helped document history as it happens. So there's more to
this letter, but as I said, they didn't want to
(44:38):
um really really be called out for it. But I
want to make sure that anyone who is listening checks
out Wisconsin History dot org. UH if you want to
go to their COVID nineteen Big History landing page that
is Wisconsin History dot org slash Big History is happening, UH,
and then you can also search around on their site
(45:00):
because they also have a journal project that's going on
as well as a poster project that's going on that
you can check out. And it's really really cool. UM.
You know, Michael also mentioned UH an effort going on
in New Orleans we mentioned when we talked about all
of this before, like check out your local history museums
who are probably doing similar things. Or their historical societies
(45:23):
that probably have similar projects in the works, and make
sure that you participate if you want to, because this
is going to be a really cool thing for future
historians and researchers to have access to so that they
know what regular people were actually thinking and doing as
they lived through all of this. If you would like
to write to us, you can do so at History
Podcast at i heart radio dot com. You can also
(45:45):
find us everywhere on social media as missed in History
and UH. If you would like to subscribe to the show,
we would be delighted to have you. You can do
that on the I heart radio app, at Apple podcasts,
or wherever it is you listen. Stuff you Missed in
History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For
(46:05):
more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart
radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production
of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And back
in May, when COVID nineteen was still the dominant force
in the news cycle, I had the chance to talk
(00:23):
to two people from the Atlanta History Center, where their
entire team has been finding ways to capture information and
artifacts related to the pandemic to ensure that future generations
have access to a really robust record of this unique time.
We mentioned this collection project pretty briefly in one of
our previous episodes, but Holly got in touch and asked
(00:44):
if they would like to talk at more length about
this effort, as well as what it's like to figure
out how to keep a living history museum going and
fulfilling its whole mission when you have to be closed
to the public. And so this first interview is with
Sheffield Hale, the President and chief executive officer of the
Atlanta History Center, and Sheffield and I talked about everything
from the History Center's living collection to how the pandemic
(01:08):
is going to impact the way workforces function in the future.
So here is Sheffield so Sheffield, My co host and
I have spoken on the show about the points where
each of us realized that this pandemic was happening at
a level that was going to directly impact our daily lives.
But I'm curious what that moment is like from an
institutional perspective, where staff and community are significant factors to
(01:31):
think about, Like, when did you realize that this was
going to fundamentally change business operations for the History Center?
I guess it's probably the friday that we closed. I
finally realized it. It was sort of like a slow
motion role of watching this happen across the country, watching
other museums, not wanting to be the first, not wanting
(01:53):
to be the last, trying to gauge public opinion of
the safety of your staff first, and uh, it's it
reminds you a little bit of a when we see
its snow coming right for a snow day. Yeah, you're
you're trying to figure it out, and you're watching what
everybody else is doing, and then all of a sudden,
(02:13):
there's a big rush and everybody gets in their car
and they leave and there's a traffic Well that's what
happened um with in terms of people closing. Uh. Did
the History Center already have a disaster plan in place?
I know they have them in place, but one that
would cover a situation like a pandemic or did you
guys have to put a plan together to deal with
(02:34):
this kind of as it was happening. Well, we did
it on on the fly in some respects. We had
a plan for remote working because we had a plan
that the campus was closed. Um, it wasn't because of
the pandemic, but it or it could have been because
of the power outages which we have a lot of
in Atlanta because in a lot of trees around there,
or tornado or hurricane some extended period of time, or
(02:57):
there had been a you know, a loss of a building.
So we had you know, redundant systems for all the technology,
for all everything that we store, all of the data
and the information um that we have. We had all that.
So it really worked well for a pandemic because but
all that is is working remotely. Um. And so we
(03:18):
but we operated on the flights. You know, we went
to you're going from seventy to zero and and then
it's like, well we can all work from home. Now
what do we do? Right? Um, and how can we
be productive? And that was what we had to really
improvise at the time. And uh, and I'm really pleased
(03:40):
and proud of what came out of it. Um. What
are the steps involved for closing a place like the
History Center for an unknown period of time because there
are a lot of different types of collections there, there
are a lot of events that happened there, etcetera. What
preparations have to be made so that everything can be
taken care of when most of the staff is not
on site. So he had the events started, you know,
(04:03):
you know, canceling one after another. There are a few
you know, weddings that were in May that it took
a while for people to reach reality in terms of
you know, acceptance, you have to go through the stags
of grief there, um in June, but we were able
to work through all those and rebook most of those
and UM and most of everybody was understanding about that.
(04:25):
In terms of the museum itself, We've got to keep it,
you know, you know, we've got to keep the security,
we've got to keep the humidity, air conditioning and all
that going on for the artifacts both in our archives
but also in the museum itself are historic houses that
we have living collections. We have goats and sheep and
perkeys and and rhodein and red chickens that all have
(04:48):
to be fed and um, and they have two stalls
have to be cleaned. Um. All that has to happen
during the pandemic. And then we have the other living collections,
all of the flowers and uh plants that have to
be tend it too. UM. So we had to work
out away for our gardeners to be socially distant when
they were you know, coming back and use their own tools.
(05:08):
And we went through this whole elaborate criteria of you know,
looking around the country and other botanical gardens figure out
what they were doing. Were there any special things that
you had to do for the living collections. I'm very
worried about the animals. I want to make sure they're
all good. Well, we made sure we had redundancy in
terms of who knew how to feed them and how
(05:31):
much and when, um, and that they didn't need each
other and that you know, we went through all of
this elaborate you know, you bring your own lunch, you know,
bring your own tools, don't use anybody else to a
person can use this card or that card. These bathrooms
are designated for each of you. Uh, I mean, you
know it's we went, you know, it's because it's a
(05:53):
certain group here, certain group there. So one group got
infected that wouldn't impact the other group. And so we
you know, we said, you know, a lot of time
figuring that out, and a lot of it's on the fly,
and we hadn't been through this. But you know, that's
that's the great thing about having friends all over the
country and learning from them and friends across the street,
(06:15):
you know, the Lanta Botanical Garden down the road. So
in my head, I'm picturing this wild spreadsheet of who
can be where women use what that I'm I may
be um overthinking that way. No you're not, unfortunately, UM.
I hope you're preserving that wild spreadsheet as part of
the the historical record, actually, like I legitimately do, because
(06:38):
that's one of those things people don't think about that
seem maybe mundane and not really part of a pandemic prep.
But that's part of how we all get through. Right.
This is the Green Party and this's the Red Party
right right. What has been the hardest part of all
of this. You said you had planned for work from
home for very temporary closures like a power outage, but
(07:00):
this is a temporary closure that is longer in length
and probably larger in scope than you guys normally have.
What's been the biggest challenge, Well, the biggest challenge and
the biggest hit long term is going to be financially,
you know, because if you know, we had all of
these events planned that UM as part of our revenue.
(07:20):
UM in the spring and the early summer is a
is a peak time you know for both weddings and
other other events, and that went away. Now they've been rescheduled,
but they're in another fiscal year and they may or
may not happen, and if they do happen, they probably
happen in smaller groups. UM. So we're having to budget
next year based on that. The Swan House Ball has
(07:43):
now been postponed to September. We hope we'll be able
to have it, then we may not, we don't know.
UM Our biggest event honoring you know, Lovett Russell, who's
just one of them great humans in Atlanta, so that
you know, through webs out and you know, but all
those things and then admissions and the school tours and
all those things interrupted just zero. So on the revenue side,
(08:07):
you had that. Now what we did realize is that
we can continue to do our mission in the interim remotely.
And you know, the whole mantra about do not waste
a crisis, um, I bought into that. I'm you know,
completely say Okay, if we're gonna be closed, we're gonna
accomplish a lot. Let's get everything that's done that's on
my list. Now we have no excuses. You know, we're
(08:29):
working on a new strategic plan. We've got an interpretive plan,
collections plan, collecting plan, finish them. Now is the time,
no more excuses. What can we do in terms of
our backlog of veterans oral histories, Let's put the as
many people as we can on transcribing those. And so
(08:50):
people from the front desk, people you know who are
helping in that area. We're now transcribing oral histories and
another group is proofing them the transcriptions. So we're doing
those kinds of things. And the educators who are supposed
to be dealing with school kids are now producing videos
that we put up online for kids to be able
to do activities at home and we'll have those forever.
(09:12):
So a lot of that we are able to capture
and in the last two months of the year. And
and but to make sure that we we used the
time as effectively as possible. And I've made sure that.
When I first got here, one of the senior people said,
of Cheffield, why are you always in a hurry? And
I've learned that folks in the in the history world
(09:34):
a lot of times historically have worked on Jurassic Time.
I came out of you I'm a lawyer, right, so
I came out of you know, six minute inferments on
time sheets and dealing with that in every minute counted, um.
And then I was at the American Cancer Society and
we were in a hurry to try to cure cancer.
And I'm mission driven, and so you know, we're in
(09:56):
a hurry. Um. You know in in so we're in
a pandemic. Great, now we have time to clear out
all that crap that you say you don't have time for.
We're gonna get it done and we're gonna have time
to think and it's gonna be great. And guess what
it's It has been very productive and the big surprising
thing is how busy we've all been. Yeah, you know,
(10:18):
I can't. I try to cancel some meetings and just said, well,
what will your reschedule it for an hour? I mean
they're booked all day, you know, And I understand it's
like damn you know, and you get off of you'll
get off these damn zoom meetings that you know the
end of the day. So where did it go? So
it's been it's been really in fascinating that way. That
(10:40):
is really interesting. I mean, I I feel like we
have had kind of the same experience in our podcasting,
but a lot of that has been because we all
started working from home, setting up our own little mini
studios and stuff. So we're one of the few kind
of media outlets that didn't have to really miss a
beat in terms of transition. But it's interesting to hear
(11:02):
how quickly your team made that shift and found themselves
perhaps busier than ever getting through all of these projects.
That's probably got to feel great to get that to
do list checked off. Yeah, I have another list. Oh,
Sheffield is a whip cracker. No, it's gonna feel it's
gonna feel great, and we are making real progress and
(11:25):
we have made some you know, we've had a few
minor epiphanies along the way, and it's been great. Now
you are, of course in charge of this large facility
and all of its people and its living collections, etcetera.
And how do you balance out managing all of the
needs and logistics of the history center with the needs
of yourself and your family at a time that is
(11:46):
weird and unprecedented and stressful in ways I think none
of us can really prepare for. You know, it has
been a lot more stressful, and it manifests us off
in different ways. And I've anticipated and in part because
the weather has been so good and everything has been
so beautiful. It's been so surreal. You step outside and
(12:08):
you say, this can't be. We can't be in a pandemic.
It's just too nice. So the whole groundhog day effect
um can wear on you. You know. I'm you know,
like I said, I used to ask practicing law, you know,
for a long time, and I'm used to highly stressful situations.
I'm used to, you know, ignoring my family and and
(12:30):
being a bad father. Um. But the good news is
is that you know, nobody's home anymore. They're all, you know,
in their late twenties and early thirties, and it's just myself,
my wife, and my dog Baxter, who's very thrilled to
have me at home all day long. So it's been interesting.
I've actually been able to see more of my children
(12:51):
because we you know, we feel comfortable, you know, having
a mini quarantine pod, but they're not living under my roof.
Is the History Center looking back at like their historical
knowledge and research about pandemics, this is not the first
pandemic to happen to kind of help both the Center
and the community understand the trajectory of this one and
(13:13):
like contextualize what we're living through right now. Well, you know,
the first thing that we're doing is was beginning to
collect in real time, you know, with our Corona collective.
And part of that's reflective of the fact that you
look at our collections, there's not much from pandemic and
flu pandemic um and the couple of reasons to that
(13:34):
one we were found in n But the main reason
is that people didn't keep um ordinary items from that
time because it's something they got through and they wanted
to move on. And also it was into the First
World war, and you know, there were other things going
on at the same time, and people just wanted to
(13:56):
push through it. So I think there were a lot
of you know, learnings, there's you know, there's a lot
there's a lot of history that's in the newspapers and
other places that you can go back and read about. Um,
but you're not hearing as much about what happened to
ordinary people. That might be more instructive is to how,
for example, practices may change in the future as a
result of this. We all assume that, you know, our
(14:20):
world has changed forever and we're not going to go
back to certain practices. Well we don't necessarily know that,
but probably true in many areas. But we can't predict
the future. Um. All we can do is collect the
present and then let other people gather in twenty year,
thirty years and say, oh, that's when that happened, that's
(14:41):
when they finally got clean bathrooms. What has been the
biggest surprise in all of this for you, because there
have to have been things that just took you completely
off guard. Well, first of all, the remote working worked
as well as it has, or it seems to have.
I've always been a skeptic about that unless somebody was
(15:01):
a piece worker and or a lawyer, you could count
their hours that they spent doing something or you know,
task it was performed in an area where there's not
anything necessarily tangible to be delivered. It's it's hard to
manage remotely and feel like you're charged in a traditional way.
I think a lot of those prejudices are breaking down
(15:22):
and that you're seeing people are actually very effective working
remotely and can get a lot done. And I don't
think it's at the end of the office yet, because
I do think that there's something about being able to
have some camaraderie and be with other people, and you
can't accomplish a lot that way, and then there's a
lot of your identity that way. But it won't be
(15:44):
it probably won't be the same. And if you could
get a trigal diet like me to believe that remote
working works, I mean it must be really taken off.
It's interesting to think about how this moment will be
perceived in terms of workforce by future generations. Lastly, because
you are, you know, the head of an organization that
(16:07):
takes care to manage, you know information about the past
and use that, you know, as a form of education
and as part of community building. I wonder what you're
hoping we will all take away from this experience when
it's part of our history. You know. What we try
to do the Atlanta History Center is connect people history
(16:27):
and culture. And what we're trying to do is to
let people get some perspective connectivity their own community and
somebody people's other ideas, and connect them to the city
somehow through history. I think what this pandemic is shown
is that we're really all connected together in so many ways,
(16:47):
and and that we really need to understand that, you know,
in terms, it's it's biological, it's spatial, you know what's
with these you know, the virus shows how interconnected we
are and how dependent we are on each other, and
that we can't just you know, all drive into our
little cult of sacs and sit in our great room
(17:09):
and ignore each other. And we that we actually have
to come out onto the street and be able to
interact with each other positive way. That shows it we
respect the fact that somebody else is entitled to be
there as well. It's not just about us. And I
think like a lot of people are going to learn
that from this pandemics. But you know, people have a
(17:32):
way of learning things that quickly forgetting them. This is true.
Fingers crossed fingers. That will be a lesson that sticks. Sheffield,
thank you so much for spending time with me today.
I really appreciate it. It's been a great pleasure. Thank you, um,
and thank you always to the History Center for all
the amazing work you guys do. I love that place,
so I'm always always happy and it's always a treat
(17:53):
to talk to everybody from there. We'll be back soon. Yeah.
The second interview is with Michael Rose, chief Mission Officer
and Executive vice President for Collections and Exhibitions. So first off,
(18:14):
will you tell us exactly what it is you do
at the Atlanta History Center. I had the title of
Chief Mission Officer and Executive vice President for Collections and Exhibitions,
and what I like to tell people is I get
to do the fund stuff. So as mission officer, I'm
involved with the mission of the organization, which is everything
(18:40):
from historic gardens to our research center. All of our
collections be that photographs are documents, artifacts, three dimensional objects,
living collections like the gardens and the animals at Smith
Farm and we develop the product as it were, for
(19:04):
the public, and that can be exhibitions and a wide
variety of other visitor experiences. But that's why I say,
I get to do the fun stuff. I work with
very creative people, very dedicated in conducting research and developing
what that experience is going to be. So right now
you are heading up a really interesting project, which is
(19:24):
why I wanted to talk to you today, called the
Corona Collective. Will you tell us what that is? The
mission of the institution is to collect, preserve, interpret, and
provide access to the stuff of history, and so much
of the focus of historical agencies like the Allen History
(19:45):
Centers often seen as acquiring historical quote unquote artifacts that
in one sense may already be understood as being old
by people and family photographs, business records, and effects associated
normally without a variety of people, places, and events, and
(20:06):
many people see these in relationship to collecting in order
to document large events such as the Vietnam War, the
Olympic Games, or to document significant social change like the
civil rights movement, the suffrage movement, or quote unquote gay rights,
and in addition, institutions also collect the more mundane items
(20:32):
documenting the sort of essence of the daily life. And
these are artifacts that are the most ephemeral, and to
one extent, one thinks about their importance and understanding what
it means to really live in a moment in time.
And these are the things that are normally disposed of
(20:53):
because they're used up and and thrown away. And so
looking at this particular point in time, we have a
large event happened now that and I think everybody agrees,
will signify a social change. We're living in a new world, right,
So we look at this as an opportunity to conduct
(21:16):
contemporary collecting, and that in a sense is predicting the
future because instead of instead of collecting what's old, we're
collecting what we think the future will think is old.
And that can be difficult. So you you attempt to
(21:36):
do it in a way that um, somebody in the
future can make a decision. You tend to overcollect in
order to ensure that you have the adequate material that
somebody in the future in a number of years can
determine whether or not something actually does have cultural significance
in some way. At this moment in time, what we
(21:58):
decided to do was, uh, this Corona Collective is crowd
collecting and because in one aspect, we can't go out
ourselves as staff of the Atlanta History Center to fulfill
our mission to collect the cultural material of our community.
(22:22):
So we're looking upon the community to help us do that.
And so we established this online it's it's at Atlanta
History Center dot com Corona Collective to allow the public
too upload material in a variety of formats onto our
(22:45):
website to help us collect the material in this moment
in time. And I think that the one thing is
that looking on this big because mobile devices are what
we live with. And what I was telling one person
(23:05):
was that isolated as we are at this moment in
time with the pandemic, that those mobile devices are how
we are communicating one to another through a variety of
virtual platforms to have meetings and with our our phones
(23:28):
to take photographs and to communicate with friends through a
variety again online platforms like Facebook and Instagram and and others.
And so, as I said to somebody, this is this
is how I live, This is how I communicate, this
is how I survive because at this moment in time,
it's it's that social media. It's that that social mobile
(23:51):
platform that allows us to reconnect to the world from
this isolated pandemics space that we're all right, and we
can use all of that material that everybody is living
with to document what's happening. And so we're providing a
platform on our website for people to upload this material
(24:12):
to help us document, like I said, this moment in
times pandemic. And so that's what the Corona Collective is.
It's crowd collecting for contemporary collecting um in order to
document life as it is right now. And that includes
quote unquote major things low that you would think of,
(24:33):
such as the restrictions by state and local governments and
things like that. But it's also is that what I
referred to is that mundane documentation of our daily lives.
It's um. Well, let me just say that this is
this is the online component. Is is only part of
the initiative because in addition to that, the staff is
(24:57):
still going out on their own social dis and sing
and wearing masks to document this with their own level
devices and in other ways and collecting artifacts that we
know that we want to keep. So we're keeping a
list of those artifacts that we can collect now that
we can collect after the restrictions are lifted and we're
(25:19):
able to get out again. And um, we're also asking
certain individuals in different professions or fields to document there
experiences as well. Um, my niece is a nurse in
a hospital. I have a nephew who is a firefighter.
(25:43):
So we're talking to first responders and asking them to
specifically document their experiences. We have one young man who
was an intern at the Atlanta History Center and he
had been called up to the National Guard and assigned
to Charlotte to help locate possible sites in Charlotte for
(26:04):
temporary hospitals. So he is documenting his experience as well.
But in this collecting getting getting back to the mount,
the mundane part. I joke with someone about, you know,
at some point there will be an exhibition about all
of this, and I can, I can, I can envision
(26:25):
in this this gallery space at the Atlanta History Center,
the display case with the the bonnet, the glass bonnet
on top of it, and inside with the light shining
at from above is a roll of toilet paper because
that is is one of that is one of the
(26:46):
symbolic items of this A bottle of hand sanitizers, homemade masks. Uh,
these are the sorts of things that we're thinking about
collecting because they are so symbolic of what we're all
living with right now. Oh, that sounds actually kind of amazing.
(27:08):
I'm picturing someone from the future stumbling into that section
of a display and just being like, toilet paper, what
is this about? Um? But boy, hasn't been an important
part of this experience for a lot of people. Um.
And you're right, it is a symbol of all of
this that we don't necessarily think of in that way.
Everyone's concerned about having it, but we really don't think
(27:29):
about how that is going to be a touchstone of
the descriptors of this many many years from now. You
mentioned that that your staff is going out and you know,
practicing safe safe practices, but collecting artifacts. What kind of
artifacts are they collecting? Well, they are they are actually
collecting the toilet paper and the hand sanitizers. You know,
(27:53):
we're lucky in Atlanta to have a series of distilleries,
and so I don't know if you're aware of it,
some of the distilleries in town have turned to making
hand sanitizers from the alcohol that they have at their
at their disposal and so they're they're putting the that
(28:17):
hand sanitizing that they're creating intto hump bottles, and they're
branding them with their distillery name. And so we're like,
we're collecting that sort of that sort of artifact. And
I had I do have one staff member. She didn't
have to leave her house to collect this because she
had in her house and she has promised to donate
(28:39):
the teddy bears that she placed in her window. That
are you aware of that? Yeah, that that placing teddy
bears because that activity in neighborhoods is something that kids
can get out of the house and go around and
it becomes a hunt to find the teddy bears. Right,
other people have been putting you know, homemade paper hearts
(29:01):
in their windows and things like that. So that's that's
the sort of thing that at this point in time
we're looking to collect. In addition to creating a larger
list of what we might be looking for, is as
well then we can't access at this point in time. Now.
(29:24):
You also mentioned um specifically like that you're documenting our
our local and state uh you know, government advisories, etcetera.
I know there are other institutions doing similar projects. Has
there been any discussion with the Atlanta History Center with
other institutions about sharing this kind of information or creating
(29:45):
a more massive collective, or do you think there will
be at some point, you know, some cooperative effort to
combine these things to make a fuller picture of life
in the US. We're certainly aware of the larger effort
by other institutions to also document the coronavirus pandemic, and
(30:07):
those are all being done in a variety of ways.
I'm aware of The Historic New Orleans Collection is using
an automated system to collect tweets, and so they have
advised people to use a use a particular hashtag so
(30:28):
that they it would be easier for their system to
identify and collect those for their system. Other institutions are
asking people to simply um, send them a an email
and let them know what they have and and let
the staff contact them again. UM. The Indiana Historical Society
(30:50):
is doing something very similar to what we're doing and
allowing the public to upload a variety of formats for
digital content. UM. We've at this point in time, we've
received about close to a hundred and fifty individual donations
and over four hundred digital files, and that can be
(31:12):
everything from UM, a written document that is uploaded, and
that can be a description from somebody who has who
has suffered from the virus or someone who has caring
for somebody who is suffering from the virus. Two poetry
(31:33):
and other formats and videos UM and photographs. So it's
been a wide variety of content that that we have
been receiving. There's not an essential coordinated effort between institutions.
I don't think at this particular point in time that
any of us are competing one against another. We we
(31:56):
do try to talk to other institutions in the LA
area to ensure sometimes that if we're collecting a particular
subject area or if you think of a community or neighborhood,
that we're not competing in some way. But I don't
think at this particular point in time with with this
subject matter, with with the Corona, that we're competing in
(32:20):
any way. But I think that in the future, if
there's ever an effort to for us, for US or
other institutions to have programming, certainly with exhibitions UM and
with with developing other product as I referred to it
for the visitor experience. There's always the opportunity to find
out what somebody else has and to borrow um that
(32:45):
for an exhibition or access photographs or you know, textual
content or something like that to to add it to
whatever we're doing. Very cool. What is going to happen
to all of these materials once they're admitted? The Corona
Collective on our website is as I as I mentioned,
is one part of a larger initiative to document the
(33:09):
Corona virus pandemic. The material that's supplied online by the
public is uploaded, and there's a we have to go
through the technical aspects. There's a release form that everybody
has to complete, and anyone under a team has to
have permission signed by by parents. Anything that's uploaded becomes
(33:36):
the property of the Atlanta History Center allow us to use,
and we don't. We don't guarantee to to use or
save absolutely everything, but it does become part of the
collection of the Atlanta History Center, and in two ways,
we preserve that for our own use and exit vision
(34:00):
or online content as well as as part of our
research collection. Also making that available to the public to
be able to access to use for research or other
methods so that if somebody was using if somebody was
creating a documentary about the pandemic and they were looking
(34:23):
at Atlanta, they could come to the Atlanta History Center,
they could review these materials, and they could possibly use
any of this content in creating a documentary. And I
just I used that It's just one example of how
the public I might be able to access this material
and use it themselves working with the Atlanta History Center
(34:44):
in some format, in addition to the History Center using
it as as the institution. So I have to ask,
do you have a favorite item that has been submitted
so far? That's um, that's the that's the hard one,
because they're they're all great. Um. Just getting the submissions
(35:07):
has been I have been has been rewarding that the
people are doing this, and frankly, we've been very very
pleased with the response that this has this has received.
One thing that we haven't received yet is that we
are working with a local school and the students have
(35:27):
been assigned a project to create their own digital journals
to be able to supply. We haven't received those yet,
but I think up to sixties students have been tasked
with with doing this. I look forward to saying that.
I think that at this point in time, probably the
thing that was most moving for me was one of
(35:50):
the very earliest donations that we received, and that was
simply the story of a woman who had the virus
and and she just she discussed the difficulty she had
and obtaining medical assistance in getting a test to find
(36:16):
out if she actually had the virus, and then and
then her description of suffering through it and she recovered
and supplied this to us. It's it's a moving document
to read and to understand the loneliness um of this.
(36:37):
And that's another aspect that my niece, who I mentioned
earlier is a nurse, and her discussion of the fact
that people are dying alone and she has to be
there and help those people because family and friends can't
be there with them in this pandemic, and how difficult
(36:59):
that is for people to suffer through. It's interesting because
I wonder if all of these people who contribute, surely
they have some sense of it, but if they really
realize how incredibly important and meaningful all of this is
going to be down the road when these are really
like the truest words you could speak are those of
(37:20):
someone experiencing a moment. It's fascinating to me and I
hope they understand the gravity of just I hope, I
hope they do. UM. The fact that they are taking
that effort to make this documentation to help us with
this is meaningful. I think that one aspect again is
that the fact that these are the voices of people
(37:42):
who are living at this moment in time. And so
many people think of history as being name states and places,
and that's um and it's not about memorizing those facts.
It's about understanding how people lived, and it's and the
relevance of that to our lives today. Having more voices
(38:08):
that can represent that experience just adds to the complexity
and understanding of history. And so, yes, this will be
in the past, and somebody in the future will be
making a decision about what to keep or not to
keep from our contemporary collecting, but they'll have a wealth
(38:28):
of material to choose from from a wide variety of people,
and I think that's a very important aspect. So last question,
do you stay pretty objective about it or do you
have a hope of how all of this will be
seen in a hundred years A hundred and fifty years, etcetera.
(38:48):
Do you think about the legacy of the work you're
doing right now or is that too heavy? I M
that's a hard one. That's sorry, okay, um. I think
I think about in one aspect. I think I think
about this as it's my job, and so I do it.
(39:13):
It's but that's not to say that it becomes a
a hump drum, daily exertion or or something. Because what
we do, we understand the people that I've worked with
that it's a mission and it's cause. And I think
(39:36):
that despite the day today aspects of a of a job,
we know that the job we're doing is rewarding and
we know that it serves a purpose. I let me
give one example, and that's from our Veterans History Project,
which is an ongoing oral history project that we have
(39:56):
in documenting the experience of veterans in a variety of conflicts,
and obviously one of those is World War Two. And
at this point in time, so many of the veterans
from World War Two are dying, and so we are
(40:17):
we're working diligently at this point in time to document
as many as we can. We have had a few
experiences recently in which some veterans who had been interviewed
in the last few years had passed away, and we
(40:38):
have received communication from family members, children, grandchildren who then
came across the recordings because the veterans get a copy
of their their interview, and we get that response from
from family members about how much that means to have
(41:01):
that voice telling that story, and so um we work
at the stage today, but but we understand the importance
of it, and I can tell you it's it's a
very rewarding job that we did. So one day people
will be talking about the remaining people who lived through
(41:22):
this moment in time, and we'll have this amazing collective
that you guys have put together. So thank you for that. Well,
thank you, Michael. Thank you so much for sitting with
me today and being so patient with all of our
technical issues and just being a delight in sharing your
knowledge with us. It's really important, so I appreciate it.
(41:43):
Thank you. One of the really unique aspects of this
set of interviews is how both Sheffield and Michael spoke
about the social change that was likely to come from
living through the pandemic. But of course, little did any
of us know when we were having these talks that
just we away was an entirely different and very profound
moment of potential for social change. So it is almost
(42:07):
a historically interesting thing in terms of looking at recent
history because we see how quickly our mindset shifted from
focusing on this one thing to a whole other set
of things that now are compounding together. So thanks again
to the Atlanta History Center and to Sheffield and Michael
for taking the time with Holly, and Howard Posner, who's
(42:27):
their manager of media relations, who helped Holly get these
talks arranged and scheduled. You can check out what's happening
currently at the Atlanta History Center at Atlanta History Center
dot com, and you can participate in their crowdsourced Corona
Collective by visiting Atlanta History Center dot com slash research
(42:47):
slash Corona dash Collective. And the History Center has also
been doing some really good virtual programming throughout the shutdown.
If you are listening to this episode on the day
it comes out, which is June five, there is actually
a virtual talk scheduled tonight with Stacy Abrams that is
sure to be really amazing. Uh. If you want to
(43:07):
get in on that go to their page and search
for it. I think it's on their front page right now.
You do have to make an online purchase of her
new book to get access to that event. That's kind
of like what your ticket becomes. Uh, and you end
up getting assigned a book I think in the mail.
But check that out for more details. And again, I
super want to thank Howard and Sheffield and Michael all
for helping us put together this picture. It's UM. I
(43:31):
am very excited at the prospect of their exhibit with
a roll of toilet paper front and center with a
spotlight on it that Michael talked about. UM. I also
have listener mail which is related UH. And this listener
didn't really want me to necessarily mention their name. They
said that they were shy, but they wanted to bring
to our attention a cool project that is going on.
(43:54):
I will read their email in part and hopefully that
will be cool. Uh and they will mind. UH. They're
write longtime listener, first time writer. Thank you so much
for keeping us informed and entertained during this challenging time.
I was really excited to hear you discuss the Corona
Collective project at the Atlanta History Center because there is
a similar COVID nineteen journaling project at the Wisconsin Historical Society,
(44:18):
which this person has some connections to, and UH, they write,
I know that museums and historical societies around the world
how similar projects in the work right now, and I
feel so proud and inspired by how historians archivists at
all are using their resources to keep people engaged and
helped document history as it happens. So there's more to
this letter, but as I said, they didn't want to
(44:38):
um really really be called out for it. But I
want to make sure that anyone who is listening checks
out Wisconsin History dot org. UH if you want to
go to their COVID nineteen Big History landing page that
is Wisconsin History dot org slash Big History is happening, UH,
and then you can also search around on their site
(45:00):
because they also have a journal project that's going on
as well as a poster project that's going on that
you can check out. And it's really really cool. UM.
You know, Michael also mentioned UH an effort going on
in New Orleans we mentioned when we talked about all
of this before, like check out your local history museums
who are probably doing similar things. Or their historical societies
(45:23):
that probably have similar projects in the works, and make
sure that you participate if you want to, because this
is going to be a really cool thing for future
historians and researchers to have access to so that they
know what regular people were actually thinking and doing as
they lived through all of this. If you would like
to write to us, you can do so at History
Podcast at i heart radio dot com. You can also
(45:45):
find us everywhere on social media as missed in History
and UH. If you would like to subscribe to the show,
we would be delighted to have you. You can do
that on the I heart radio app, at Apple podcasts,
or wherever it is you listen. Stuff you Missed in
History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For
(46:05):
more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart
radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
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