Mary Frances Creighton: Who was America's Lucrezia Borgia?

When Mary Frances Creighton was arrested for poisoning her brother, the tabloids went crazy, comparing her to Lucrezia Borgia. Mary was also accused of poisoning her mother-in-law and her work caught up with her when she struck again, years later.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from house
works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
and I'm Delina Chok reboarding and we are continuing with
our spooky Halloween series. It's time covering something that's very creepy,

(00:23):
very disturbing, and that is of course poison. So just
a few years back, Katie and I did an episode
on a pretty notorious poisoning family. You know what I'm
talking about, delay the Borges. Borges, they have their own
show these days. But the Italian clan, of course was
bothered by a cardinal who became pope, and they are

(00:45):
famous for plotting and scheming and murdering their way into power. Um.
I think the luckiest fellow in that earlier episode seemed
to be Lucretia's first husband, Giovanni Swortza, who, in exchange
for broadcasting his non existing impotence, was allowed to get
out of the marriage alive. That's pretty bad if he's
the luckiest guy in the episode. Yeah, but many many

(01:08):
others were not so lucky. As you know, the Borges
had a heavy hand with arsenic and nasty poison, particularly
effective because it's so hard to taste or detect. Pure arsenic,
just to give you a little background, is a heavy
metal sometimes found in or but when heated with oxygen,
pure arsenic becomes arsenic trioxide or white arsenic, a crumbly powder,

(01:34):
something that could be mixed in easily. Yeah, you can
mix it in with a lot of things, with the beverages,
but also with food. Administered in one killer dose or
slipped in a bit over time. Either way, it mimics
a natural decline in health. That's why it's so deadly.
If it's given bit by bit, it looks like some
kind of natural decline. If it's given in one big dose,

(01:56):
that can look similar to other catastrophic illnesses, and the
borgia is apparently further refined white arsnac. They weren't just
satisfied with this already potent killer. They made almost their
own family poison, essentially just for their youth, and so
ultimately the family name, and especially that of the famous daughter,

(02:17):
Lucrezia borgia but camberly a bye word for poisoner, one
that still had weight to it more than four hundred
years later, when the American tabloids started calling a New
Jersey housewife America's Lucrezia Borgia, and this lady who were
going to talk about today had the distinction of being

(02:38):
tried not once, not twice, but three times for murder
by arsnake, So she racked up a few counts here
she did. And um, it's it's a very interesting story,
and it's one that's covered in depth in Deborah Bloom's
book The Poisoner's Handbook, which has come up on the
show before. We mentioned it during our Radium Girls episode. Um,

(03:00):
it's been up a few times in research for us.
It has it's a good source for this story. And
I also want to say before we get going to
this is one of those stories where you really are
glad that it's in the twentieth century because you can
check out the newspaper archival records, and I have so
much fun going through these old nineteen twenties nineteen thirties

(03:20):
newspaper articles and looking at their crazy tabloid e headlines,
even when it's the New York Times, and reading about
the trial as it as it happened day by day,
watching it unfold in what So, just to give you
a little background of how this all began, the modern
Lucrezia named Mary Francis Creighton or Fanny, was a twenty

(03:41):
four year old from Newark, New Jersey, when she was
first arrested in nine She had been raised by her
grandparents with a brother and two sisters, and married her
childhood friend and World War One veteran John Crichton a
few years before this arrest. They had a three year
old daughter named Ruth and a son, John Jr. Who

(04:02):
was born while Fanny awaited trial in prison and to
the outside world and to the tabloids certainly, which loved
this sensational story. Fanny had very good looks and as
a young mother in prison, just presented a very compelling
sort of narrative. But to the outside world she really

(04:24):
did seem like an unlikely poison er. She she kept
to herself, but not in a weird, creepy kind of way.
She dressed demurely in all black. Through her media appearances.
She wore a very prominent silver cross, and she would
pose for these press photos with her infant in arms.
Uh she she didn't. She seemed like a normal lady.

(04:45):
Not somebody came in conservative who who had murdered with
arsenic So the story seemed to have started right after
the Crichton's marriage, Fanny and John had moved into his
family's comfortable, newer home. John It's forty seven year old
mother died within the year after they moved in, supposedly
of some type of bacterial infection that caused extreme nausea.

(05:09):
Within two years, Creighton's forty seven year old father was
also dead in this case from heart trouble. So I
don't know kind of a sudden decline in the health
of they. But a couple of years after the the
elder Mr. And Mrs Critton had died, Fanny's teenage brother, Charles,

(05:30):
came to live with the family, and this was in
nineteen three, and he essentially acted as their housekeeper at
the babysitter for Ruth. Plus he got a job down
at the corner store, sort of just acting a stock
boy position. But by April of that year, so just
a few months after moving in with his sister and
brother in law, Charles started feeling not so great and

(05:53):
he went to the doctor. The doctor prescribed him some
sort of mild medicine and I thought he had a
minor in fact ocean A week later, though, he went
back to the doctor. His ache had really gotten worse.
He was feeling very thick all the time. He had
a really bad sore throat. So again the doctor upped
the dose of the tonic he had prescribed. By April,

(06:16):
though Charles was dead. So suddenly the situation starts to
look a little different. We have three dead people in
the Crichton household in almost as many years, three people
who hadn't been ill before, just suddenly very very sick.
Blue describes this death as the first sort of warning sign,

(06:37):
though not a very strong one. It seems the doctor
just wondered what went wrong here with this seemingly healthy teen.
He even asked the advice of a county physician. Ultimately,
they ruled that the death was caused by a simple
stomach bug, even though the doctor still felt a little
funny about this entire case, and he even began thinking

(06:58):
a little bit more about the death of Mr and
Missus Crichton. The elder. Yeah, so so the doctors is
pondering this a little bit, but still nobody thinks foul
play was involved. And that's until an anonymous tipster rode
into the police asking, quote, is death not ground for suspicion?

(07:19):
This boy feared his sister as he feared death. I'm
very sorry that I cannot sign my name. I'm just
an outsider who is very fond of this boy. Please
act quickly and beware you will find it hard to
trap this liar. WHOA. Yeah, that's a pretty serious note
to get, and it certainly got the police looking closer

(07:41):
at not just Charles's death, but considering the earlier death
of the Crichton's as well. Yeah, they started to find
other suggestions that something here was amiss when they started
looking closer. As you said, Fanny had convinced her brother
to purchase a one thousand dollar life insurance paul See
for instance, with her as the beneficiary. Right, and charles

(08:03):
employer told them how the boy would complain about being
force fed chocolate pudding at home by his sister. They
both thought that was a little strange, and shortly after
you know this questioning and investigation, Charles's body was exhumed
and did test positive for arsenic. At that point, Fanny
and her husband John were arrested for murder. The only

(08:27):
real problem with this case was that there was no
clear source of arsenic in the crimean home. There was
just the best the detectives could find was something called
Fowler's solution, which was a type of face tonic that
contained arsenic for clear skin. Um. Fanny was known for
having a very beautiful complexion. And even though arsenic was

(08:51):
laced through a lot of household products at the time
rat poison for instance, bug poison, green dye, and wallpapers,
fly traps, you read this book, you'll be like, oh
my gosh, in everything people were handling, even though it
was in a lot of stuff, it was not very
highly concentrated in this face tonic. But because it was

(09:12):
the only household source they could find, it was the
basis for the case that it seemed that Fanny and
John must have poisoned young Charles with face tonic, arsenic
and face tonic put into chocolate pudding. In her book,
a Bloom writes about Rudolph Whitouse, a nineteenth century chemist
who wrote a definitive book on forensic medicine. So while

(09:35):
we think of arsenic and relation to the Italian Renaissance,
it was also a great favorite of poisoners in the
nineteenth century, one of the most popular poisons. In fact,
according to Whitouse, that's not because it was undetectable. As
you might imagine. Since the early eighteen hundreds, pathologists could
actually find arsenic in the body, and over that century

(09:55):
many tests have been developed to locate it. It could
also last in the body for a ages. It was
detectable in hair and nails for decades, which makes you
think maybe poisoners wouldn't want it to be a great poison.
But poisoners did still have a few things going for
them with arsenic. One was that unless an autopsy was done,
so unless somebody did get suspicious about the death, arsnake

(10:18):
deaths really could look a lot like something else, like
food poisoning or cholera. Even the flu um those low
doses you were talking about this how it can be
administered slowly over time, those could look a lot like
gradually worsening health, something like heart failure. And even if
the body was studied, even if there was an autopsy conducted,

(10:41):
the presence of arsenic could sometimes be really tricky to
interpret because partly because at least there were trace amounts
of arsenic in a lot of common things. I mean,
we already mentioned all those household items where it is
the main ingredient, but there's a little bit of arsenic
in a lot of common items that people would use
at the time, so it could be in the body.

(11:01):
There was the potential for something to be contaminated with arsenic.
It was just tricky to interpret. Consequently, even in the
late eighteen hundreds, when Whitouse wrote his book, he noted
that it was quote in almost every instance the agent
used by those who, having succeeded in a first attempt
at secret poisoning, have seemed to develop a lust for

(11:23):
murder and have continued to add to their list of
victims until their very number had to arouse suspicion and
lead to detection. Okay, so that's something to remember as
we as we go on. Kind of a calling card
of many arsenic murders. But during Charles's murder trial, the
Cretan Floyer really focused on the case's weakest point, which

(11:47):
was of course that the poison had supposedly come from
the Creton's home and had specifically been this weak facial tonic.
He pointed out that lots of women have this tonic
in their home. It is not a strange thing to
have about, and also it would take loads of it
to kill a grown man and This was sort of

(12:08):
the main point here. Remember, Charles had worked at a
corner store, so a place where there would be a
ready supply of products way heavier on arsenic than this
Fowler's of solution, you know, things with arsenic like rat poison,
for instance. So the lawyer was starting to sort of
present an alternate theory that maybe Charles had done this himself.

(12:29):
Maybe he was distraught over some failed romance. He had
easy access to arsenic laced products, and it his sister
and brother in law had nothing to do with it.
He also downplayed that one thousand dollar insurance policy as
a motive. He insinuated that that was just enough to
cover the funeral expenses, so why would that be exactly

(12:53):
So it worked. The Cridings were acquitted on June. Fanny,
so we're leaved fainted in the courtroom, or perhaps playing
into her her tabloid image a little bit. Fanny wasn't
on the outside for very long. It's just one day later, Fanny,
and it was just Fanny. This time. Her husband was
was not involved in the second round. She was arrested

(13:16):
again for a murder. Yeah, the senior Mr. And Mrs
Crichton had been exhumed. By this time, they had been
exhumed in May, and while Mr Crichton's cause of death
held out, Mrs Crichton's body was clearly touched by arsenic.
Some of the testimony seemed more damning this time. The
elder Mrs Crichton's nurse, for example, testified that her patient

(13:38):
got sick after Fanny gave her coco and worsened when
she had been left alone with her daughter in law.
So chocolate seems to be playing a big part here.
With the cocoa and chocolate, that might be one that
disguises the taste of arsenic easily. But this case really
came at the cusp of an interesting time and for

(13:59):
an six science that really at a time when forensic
evidence was becoming a major component of trials. And so consequently,
both sides included testimony from the country's top pathologists, you know,
guys who had analyzed the organs of Mrs Crichton and
could testify to some extent about the arsenic that was
present there. And the defense called on a guy named

(14:22):
Alexander Getler, who was a toxicologist at the Chief Medical
Examiner's Office in New York City and Incidentally, Getler is
one of the prime subjects in the book We Keep Mentioning,
which is all about sort of the birth of modern
forensic science in New York City, so it really follows
his story. But he plays a very strange role in
this case, as you're going to continue to see. But

(14:44):
he had tested Mrs Cratton's organs and he did find
white arsenate present. But you know how a minute ago
we mentioned that the presence of arsenate could sometimes be
a little tricky to interpret. Getler found that in addition
to these trace amounts of arsenic in MRUs Crichton's body,
there were large amounts of bismuth in her body, which

(15:06):
was a common element in anti nausea medicine at the
time and one that sometimes also included trace amounts of arsenic.
It held out Mrs Creighton's doctor had, in fact prescribed
her a bismuth based medicine, so they knew that she
had been taking this. So Gittler's opinion was that because

(15:27):
of those small amounts of arsenic and large amounts of bismuth,
he assumed she had taken medicine that was contaminated. It
had had more arsenic in it than was safe to ingest,
and that testimony proved compelling because again, for for the
second time in a very short span of time, Fanny

(15:48):
Krichten was acquitted. So after this years go by, and
those tabloids that were all in a tizzy over this
beautiful American Lacrezia Borgia with her infant, and are they
just kind of go away exactly, and the Craton's along
with their two kids, they decide to escape New York.

(16:09):
They just have too much notoriety there, and they moved
to Long Island, not so far away, but I guess
enough to give them a little bit of a fresh start.
They hadn't been terribly popular with their neighbors in New
York too, I'm sure, And in the midst of the
Great Depression, they decided to take in a friend of John's,
another World War One veteran named Everett Applegate, who had

(16:31):
been living with his wife and teenage daughter at his
in laws. So with this new edition, there are now
two families, so two sets of parents and three kids
ranging from ages twelve to fifteen, living in a two
bedroom house. You know, they're all kind of crammed in there,
But it seems they're friendly. Seems like things are going well.
Then in September nineteen thirty six, eight at Applegate, who

(16:54):
is Everett's thirty six year old wife, started feeling very thick.
You can of this is gonna go. In fact, she
gets so sick that her doctor recommends she go to
the hospital. She's hospitalized for an entire week, and then
when she is released back home, she still is so weak.
She can only take milk. She's feeling very ill, very weak,

(17:16):
and finally on September, she woke up vomiting, quickly passed out.
Everett called the doctor, he called the police, but before
they could do anything, she was already dead. So alright,
official cause of death, heart trouble the doctor, I guess, okay,

(17:38):
makes sense a little bit. At first. The doctorhood treated
Ada for obesity for some time, but even with her
previous health problems, the police wanted to order an autopsy,
as you would imagine they would, considering our subjects background,
And you'd think that maybe ever it would be okay
with that too, wouldn't you. M M? He said no.

(18:01):
He says no, and they basically tell him, well, we're
gonna do it anyway, So it would be good for
you to say yes. Uh, the auto does go ahead,
as you can imagine, and the taxicologist, our old friend,
Alexander Getler, since this is his jurisdiction this time, did

(18:21):
find arsenic in every organ of Ada's and he believed
that the arsnaic was specifically from a very common ninety
percent rat poison, specifically one called rough on rats. And
the obvious suspects were, of course, the husband Everett something
seemed a little fishy there, and then also be very

(18:44):
obvious co suspect, the applegates housemate Fanny Crichton, the famously
twice acquitted arsenic murderers. Now she goes by friend, she
goes by friend. Now you know, try, but you know
that they're they're going to infestic her involvement in this.
It's just too many coincidences in her life, of course.

(19:05):
So this is where the newspaper archives that Sarah mentioned
really become a fascinating resource for this story. The New
York Times, for example, covered it blow by blow, and
you can still find those articles online, so if you
want to check those out after listening to this podcast,
and the headline that might be a fun thing. They
all have headlines that are about fifty words long. Yeah,

(19:27):
if you look at some of these articles, though, Fran
presents a very unusual front right from the start. Yeah,
her testimony seemed too, very wildly. She admitted to killing
her brother years earlier using rat poison, not the Fouler
solution as they previously thought. She implicated Everett Applegate, also

(19:50):
claiming that AIDA's murder was actually his idea, but by
October she took it back, saying, according to an October
tenth article, that she quote wanted to make trouble for him,
but the murder was actually her doing. So she she says,
I accused him because I was trying to stir up trouble.
So why would she want to do that? What would

(20:10):
she have against this guy? And at first detectives suspected
that Everett and Fran had been having an affair together,
but soon it became clear that the real affair was
between Everett and the Crichton's fifteen year old daughter, Ruth,
So they started thinking, Okay, well did Everett murder his
wife to be with Ruth? And when the trial began

(20:32):
in January nineteen thirty six, Applegate did admit that he
had wanted to marry Ruth. He admitted to their relationship.
Other witnesses, though, including Ruth and John Crichton, came forward
with some pretty damning testimony. Ruth, for instance, spoke of
how Everett had once asked her if she'd like him
better single John, who just seems very like, not aware

(20:58):
of what's going on in his household twelve years earlier,
and at this point recounted however, it once spoke to
him about fixing Ruth up in her own apartment, you know,
would that be okay? And he's thinking, what, So Everett
seems like, you know, he's fessing up to this, this relationship,
but he is denying that he murdered his wife. He

(21:19):
flatly denies that. He instead testified that the murder was
France doing. Even though he had given her the money
to buy the rat poison. He said he thought she
just had a rodent problem she needed to deal with.
It was not to deal with his wife Ada. So
this is where Alexander Getler comes in again. The New
York City toxicologist he's looped into the crime and trial,

(21:43):
testifies that eleven grains of poison had been given to Aida.
He considers three grains of white arsenic lethal. So there's
no ambiguity here like there was the last time about
contaminated medicine or anything like that. It's clearly poisoning that
was done intentionally, and and another thing that really interested me.
I think about most cases, or most accounts of the

(22:07):
story you see, do focus only on the poison because
that's the main part. But there was also a handwriting
expert who was involved in the trial who testified that
these six anonymous letters that had come to the Long
Island home urging the Crichton's to quote get rid of
the Apple Gates had really been written by Mrs Crichton. Um.
It just reminds me so much of the earlier anonymous

(22:30):
tipster note and whether Fanny no Fran could have been
inspired by that in some way or what was going on.
But her testimony was really just as shady as it
had been before. The before the trial started, she claimed
she had bought the poison, but Everett had made her
do it, you know, it was under his direction. At

(22:52):
another point, according to an article from January, she claimed
that she even mixed it as drink but thought that
the white powder. Everett had asked her to add to
the milk. Was this other very similar looking medicine she
had mixed in with the drink before and it was okay.
A sample of dialogue from the next day, which was

(23:13):
Janu when Fran and the prosecutor went into more detail
about mixing up the poison milk is kind of interesting,
So we want to share that with you. The prosecutor said,
you stood by and watched this woman who was your
best friend die. Yes, you didn't tell the police that
you were being forced by applegate to do this. No,

(23:37):
you had heard a great deal about arsenic and its symptoms,
had you not? Yes? And that's my favorite question. It's
just I think they couldn't mention the earlier acquittals. But
the prosecutor clearly wanted to make the point if anybody
knew what arsenic did to people, it was this lady.
She'd had a lot of experience in it. Even assuming

(23:59):
that she was innocent in the earlier cases, she had
clearly still been there to hear all about what happens
with arsenic, so she would have recognized the signs even
if she didn't have anything to do with it exactly.
So there were other testimonies involved too. Of course. Applegate's uncle,
for instance, testified that when he visited the home, Fran
had complained about Aida and even said quote that she'd

(24:22):
like to drop her some rat poison. Uh, pretty pretty
straightforward point there. But the ultimate picture that emerged, at
least for the jury, was of Everett trying to free
himself from his wife so he could marry this fifteen
year old girl and Fran, who apparently knew about the

(24:43):
relationship and was eager to encourage it to free up
space in her house. I mean, you would have thought
you might free up too much space in your house, yeah,
because presumably the rest of the family would no longer
be living there. But on January both Everett and Fran
were sentenced to death. It had been a crazy trial

(25:03):
one day after recess. The crush to get seats had
actually resulted in several women being not to the ground,
but the execution itself was not a big event. Crichton's
lawyers even pulled an eleventh hour move with a letter
from Ruth claiming that Everett had told her he'd kill
his wife and then Mary Ruth, but made her swear
that she'd never tell or he'd get her in trouble

(25:25):
and she'd wind up in jail. So she claimed that's
why she told no one and didn't speak of it
at the trial. But no, dice didn't work, actually didn't
work at all. And the day of the executions, which
were to take place at things in prison another place
that just keeps popping up in podcast, uh, they were
set to take place July six. That day, fran Crichton's

(25:47):
lawyer asked her if she had lied during the case
about Everett's involvement in any way, please speak now, because
he was going to be electrocuted as well. She said
she hadn't lied. She didn't need to change your story,
and Appligate was electrocuted first. That night, um prison attendants
had formed a human screen. I mean, I know we

(26:09):
mentioned it wasn't this huge media event, but still it
was getting some coverage. They had formed a human screen
between the newspaperman and the electric chair to stop any
secret photographers from from snapping a shot because that was
something that had unfortunately happened a few years earlier at
the prison. They wanted to avoid that happening again. Crighting,

(26:31):
for her part, was so distraught and terrified she had
to actually be wheeled into the electric chair. She came
in with a rosary. She had converted to Catholicism that afternoon,
but right before the power was turned on, she threw
down her rosary beads. So a very memorable last image

(26:52):
for anybody who was there, I would imagine, but a
crazy story too. And de Blina and I were talking
about it earlier. Just how did it go on? Said Long?
I just I don't know. I feel like we wonder
that about all of these we do kinds of story.
Maybe it just seems so apparent after the fact that
there was something sinister going on in this household, especially

(27:12):
you think about John Crichton, What what was going on there,
you know, with his his first his parents dying, and
his brother in law, then his housemate. I don't know.
I mean, I guess maybe when you're that close to
the situation and it's your family, you just you don't
see it, can't even process, you don't even want to

(27:33):
believe that, or can't even believe that that would be
the case anyway, though, I mean, a very unusual story
of poisoning and hopefully a good tale to share with
you guys for Halloween. We do have a little follow
up though, that's kind of bizarre. Um. In addition to
being an author, Bloom as a science journalist. And last

(27:54):
month there was a piece and wired about arsenic in rice.
Apparently in organic r snake has been found in two
hundred rice products at grocery stores across the the US.
And some of the possible reasons, besides, of course rice
being really good at absorbing arsenic quickly since it grows

(28:14):
in a wet environment, um, some of the reasons where
this inorganic arsenic could be coming from. One was possibly
left over in fields in Southern States where cotton had
been grown for a long time and treated with arsnake
based pesticides. And then another possible reason was run off
from chicken farms where feed sometimes contains a different form

(28:38):
of organic arsenic that can be converted to this more
dangerous form. Kind of a strange modern catch up to this, though,
don't worry to belie this. Make a scared face at
mere right now. I find this really troubling. And they
had it was two barrier grains and to boil your

(28:58):
your rice and a lot of water. You know, don't
do the Uncle Ben style where it soaks up all
the water, and who knows. I mean, we're probably this
is like our food lab episode. We're probably already ingesting
so many weird things that maybe a little arsenic in
the rice. I don't find that comforting, Sarah. Sorry, Well,

(29:23):
it will certainly be avoiding the chocolate pudding now, although
we well, I don't like chocolate that much, so I'm safe.
There's the rice I'm worried about. Good to now, Well,
now that we've alarmed everyone, Okay, well we will have
some some fun listener mail to to calm your nerves
a little bit. All right, so you ready for some

(29:44):
listener mail to Blena. I am. We've been talking about
how we got a lot of cool meal over the summer.
And one of these was a postcard from Nicole and
her daughter Rebecca. And it's a postcard of us the
our old iceman friend, except he is not an iceman
in the picture. He's a living guy wearing his clothes,

(30:06):
and then they have um. It's an illustration, of course,
with the photographic counterpart of his clothes in their deteriorated state,
including his rope, sandals and his hat and um. Nicole
wrote to say that she visited the museum we mentioned
during that episode for two hours, and she said that

(30:26):
I can assure you let's he looks like this, pointing
to the little drawing on the back side of the
postcard of the real shriveled iceman photo and not like
the copyrightedge hattie on the other side. Obviously, you're not
the only ones who love him, though, considering the proud
photo of Brad Pitts utsie tattoo prominently displayed at the

(30:49):
Museum of Duenna and I had not realized we did
not know. We googled that we did what we needed
to have some proof ourselves of this, and neither did
Nicole Apparently she who knew. She also said there were
cases and cases of his quote wallet letter. We even
saw his fungus. The bare hat was rather jaunty, but

(31:09):
it's still hard to love a man with flease. We
love your podcast, so this was an adorable postcard and
um kind of a funny one too. Is hard to
love a man with flease? True enough, we have another
very cool card here from listener Kate in New York.
She says, Hello, I just wanted to write and say
how much I love your show. I work at a

(31:29):
letter Press shop in Brooklyn and listen to your podcast
every week and catch up on my listening while printing
on huge nineteenth century presses. Even made the card I'm
sending to you, which is we should take a picture
or something and post it on face. We could. It's
a Manhattan. Yeah, it's a beautiful card. And she goes

(31:50):
on to say your podcast has even inspired my best
friend and I to start our own podcast, ABC Gotham.
It's a New York City history podcast with one topic
for every letter of the alphabet. Very fun of like,
thanks Kate for sending that in. It's always great to

(32:10):
hear two from people who have started their own blog
or podcast. I think that's so cool. I would have
no idea how to do that. So cheers to you
guys for for starting your own show. Yeah, we get
a lot of help, so we're always impressed by people
who do this on their own. If you have any
similar ventures that you're involved in, or maybe you just

(32:31):
have some ideas that you want to send in for
us to cover. Maybe you have your own sort of
Etsy story that you want to share with Sarah because
you know it's her historical boyfriend and she's always interested
in a two stories, you can write to us where
at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. You can also
look us up on Twitter or we are on Facebook.
I wish I had a historical boyfriend who had like

(32:52):
some living pictures, you know, not just like the mommifide remains.
I don't know. Well, there's lots of options out there,
so yeah, if you have any lea options open and
you can date around a little bit. Yea. If you
have any ideas there, email us and we do have

(33:12):
back going back to our more dismal poison subject, we
do have a lot of articles on forensic science, which
I am endlessly fascinated by. And one of the reasons
why this story interests me is because it, really, like
I said earlier, is kind of at the cusp of
that becoming an important part of um of trials and detection.

(33:36):
So if you want to look at any of that,
check out our science section on our homepage at www.
Dot how stuff works dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is that how stuff works
dot Com named tu to