All Ball - Roy's "Least Gifted" UNC Team; TCU Asst. Duane Broussard On Discovering Danny Granger, Coaching Lonzo Ball - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

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tune in. Hey, welcome in is your boy? Doug Gottlieb

(01:11):
and you listen to the All Ball Podcast. Got a
great guest for you. We'll get to a living later
on the pod. I want to share with you my
thoughts on two things. One something Roy Williams said about
his team, and just to kind of an overall sense
in college basketball, plus some more NBA tidbits before we
get to our guest this week. By the way, you
can listen to The Doug Gotlieb Show three to sixth Eastern,

(01:33):
twelve to three Pacific on your iHeartRadio app on Fox
Sports Radio or Fox Sport Tradio dot Com or on
your terrestrial that that's like your average radio or series
XM two seventeen or two oh three. So Roy Williams said, basically,
this the least talented team that he's ever had, and
it's not wrong. And while people are pointing out, hey,
there's four stars and five stars still on the roster

(01:56):
even without Cole Anthony, the fact remains that you lose
far and away your best freshman, Okay, and you lose
I mean, I'm not sure people have a healthy respect
for how hard it is to hit reset, you know,

(02:16):
because think about what they lost from last season, the
last season's team was good. I think he did a
great job of getting them to play, you know, together,
considering you had young players and old players kind of
all mixed together. But but think about this for a second. Now, Okay,
you lose Cameron Johnson, Kobe White, Luke may Na's little

(02:39):
all right, and I mean you lose your four absolute
best players. It's not really close, not even close to
being close. Right. In addition to which, you know, you
lose Kenny Williams to graduations, so you lose your five
leading scores. It's crazy, all right, lose your five legion scores.

(03:03):
And you know the remarkably the sixth best scorer on
last year's team was Garrison Brooks, who's averaging fourteen a game.
For you, a couple of things. One, you lose your
point guard. This is how you're gonna look, It's all.
If you lose your quarterback, you know, you look like
an inferior coach. Think about Dabbo Sweeney. What did Dabbo
look like when before he had Deshaun Watson and now

(03:27):
that he has Trevor Lawrence, And what did he looked
like when you know, go through all the other Clemson
quarterbacks were good, but they're just not elite, and elite
quarterbacks make you look like an elite coach. But I
don't know if everybody thinks they're equipped for the one
and done. Remember they lost two one and done's do
I think Nasir Little not playing, you know, only playing

(03:48):
eighteen minutes a game hurt him in terms of recruiting,
probably a little bit. But whatever was hurt by Nasir
Little's helped by Kobe White, who he gave a complete
green light to. Right, So it's still Carolina. It's a
competitive field. I think this kind of relates to the
bigger question about where'd all the players go in college basketball? Right?
Where are all the And this is what happens when

(04:10):
there's a Memphis who gets to James Weisman. This is
what happens when a couple of players go to play
overseas that all of a sudden, Now you know, look
on a given year, there are anywhere between five and
fifteen great freshmen five and fifteen, and when you lose

(04:30):
you know, three of them to overseas or not playing
in college, the rest gets spread out. Arizona's got a
really young squad. They have a couple of them go
around the country, and look, you know, Nova's got a
really young squad and mixed in with some older pieces,
but they don't have any like kind of breakthrough prolific talents.

(04:52):
Kentucky has what one and some other freshmen. Duke has one,
and maybe you know Vernon Carry and Cassius Stanley. I
guess you know. Now Louisville's a player in the elite.
So when you have Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Duke,
Memphis Arizona, I know, I'm forgetting a couple all fighting

(05:14):
over the same kind of small group of stars, and
you lose a couple off the top, and James Wiseman's
not playing and Cole Anthony gets hurt, and oh yeah,
by the way, there are second level guys who left
school early to go to the pros or got upset
at a lack of playing time or not being the
first level guys and they transferred. They're sitting out. It's

(05:38):
not one thing that's led to college basketball being a
lot like North Carolina. Right. Roy Williams argument for this
being the least talent team, it's inarguable and compared a
number of NBA players can parison to any other time
he's coached at Carolina and probably most end of the
time he's been at Kansas. I would also say though
the sport he's really really spread out. It's lacking the

(05:58):
top end talent, and even not just the top end talent,
that second tier talent has also you know, transferred left
whatever because it was it was unhappy or gone to
the NBA because it thought you know, I mean, look
at Iowa State losing two players who don't even have
two way contracts. You know, of course Iowa State gets

(06:21):
blown out. That's why Kansas is the elite team in
the Big twelve because they've been able because Udoka has
a book at one got hurt and two because his
position is really not as desirable in the NBA, you know,
and the rest of their team has made up of
good not great players. They've kind of nailed it in

(06:41):
that maybe it's not the greatest thing to get the
top level recruits, but if you can get guys and
play them and keep them in school, you've got a
chance to be really good. So I guess the the
ending statement to what Roy Williams saying, Look, it's a
challenge to recruiting. You have to change when it's it's
a lot of some teams can survive without a point guard.
But if your system is really point guard dependent usually

(07:03):
which is North Carolina's, calls the offenses, calls the defense,
and then the build up of this team was completely
built around Cole Anthony. Then you lose him, and you
lost your top five scores from last year, You lost
both old and mature and your culture setters, and you
lost your new up and comers. This is what happens,
and this is the challenge of college basketball. And the

(07:25):
question becomes, how do you fix it right? How do
you fix it? Because I know there's there's a group
of people that, well, listen, you're just yeah, you're just
compensating for name and likeness. They'll stay like, no, they
won't because they're not chasing after thousands, they're chasing after millions,
even if the millions aren't really there. I feel like
we're in this realm where everyone knows the G League

(07:46):
is coming on strong and they're going to start. At
some point, someone is going to decide, hey, I'm not
gonna play in college, I'm gonna play in the G League.
I don't think it'll go well for them, but they'll
still probably get drafted or whatever. Remember people been able
to do that since the G League was the D League.
But I do feel like the G League is coming
on strong from a perception standpoint, and we're kind of

(08:07):
down playing what Zion Williamson said this week, which is,
you know, truth be told, I would have rather stayed
at Duke. I was having a lot of fun, and
I'm not sure even if he has a bunch of money,
if he's having all that much fun. I kind of
think that's the part that needs to be relayed to
basketball people and parents, but especially to the players, like, look,
you're gonna make money, if you're really good, you're always

(08:30):
going to have a job. But this is the most
fun you're ever gonna have. And you just don't have
nearly as much fun playing in the NBA or playing
overseas or playing in the G League. So college basketball
is in a weird place. I'm not totally sure how
to fix it. I think the NBA is going to
try and do what is in the best interest in
the NBA, and they don't feel like it is keeping

(08:52):
kids in college. It's going to be sending guys to
the G League. But the G League isn't coached by
nearly as good coaches. They don't practice as hard. The
level of talent is better, the style of basketball is different.
There is no fan support, there is no TV. People
don't watch it on TV. You're losing a bunch of it.
But we're in this weird transition period where college basketball

(09:12):
seems to be slipping on some level to the level
of college baseball. The difference, obviously is there's still really
really good talent, still really really good coaches. There's incredible resources,
the practice facilities, the lower end of the coaching in
terms of the assistants and the gas like, those guys
are great workers, and there's a greater depth of resources

(09:34):
than they have for the G League. But the top
end talent is just not there. One because of the season.
Two because of now you go through three or four
years of anybody with a pulse going to the NBA
Draft and a couple of guys going overseas and a
couple of guys getting hurt, and one guy choosing to
withdraw from college after playing a handful of games, and

(09:54):
here we are. If you love to be remembered as
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(10:14):
at one eight hundred flowers dot com for exclusive offers
and great values. To order today, visit one hundred flowers
dot com slash tune in. That's one eight hundred flowers
dot com slash tune in. What grows in the forest trees?
Sure no one else grows in the forest. Our imagination,
our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too,

(10:37):
because when we disconnect from this and connect with this,
we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than
you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring.
I Discover the Forest dot Org, brought to you by
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(10:58):
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slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt

(11:20):
Us Kids, brought to you by the US Department of Health,
the Human Services Administration for Children and Families, and the
ACT Council. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. All right,
let's catch out with him. He's a native of Sugarland, Texas,
which of course Houston, Texas, and then he went in

(11:43):
and played at at Bradley. He's an assistant coach at
TCU following a stint at at UCLA. He's Dwayne Broussard.
He joins us in the All Ball podcast. Coach, give me,
We'll go back, man, this is going a long time.
Your your your your Your first memory of hoop was what,

(12:07):
oh uh, maybe four or five years of age when
my father came home one day and had a basketball
in the backs of his car and handed it over
to me and said, if you're gonna play, then you're
gonna have to work at it. But here's the ball,
So get to work. Did you get first? You know what? No,

(12:30):
not in college, but played a little bit in high
school and in some rec leagues when he was older. Um,
good player, but never had a chance to play in college. Well,
what do you do for living? I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry. That's okay. What do you do for a living? Uh?
So he um went to college on a swimming scholarship.

(12:54):
He went to Grambling State University and then from there
he was drafted into UH beyond Forces, went to Germany
and then uh served time there. That's where I was
born and then came back to the United States with
a mother and then ended up having a thirty five
year career with Harris County Probations at Houston, Texas and

(13:19):
has been retired now, I think for about twelve years.
So he was was he a pro he's a pro
officer or did he serve it? Did he was? He
was a probation officer? So, uh, you know, parole is
apping to get out of out of the penitentiary and
and and I think he was before that. He was

(13:41):
before that that stage. So twenty day a probation officer
for for a long time in Houston. So and very successful,
very good man. Taught me a lot about life. It
still does to this very day. So very proud to
be his son. You were you You're a hell of
a player, right you go to Bradley and play. What

(14:03):
was he like? You know, in terms of you and
I know through your your travels as an assistant coach,
you see all kinds of dads in terms of their involvement. Um,
it's it's weird. It's weird because some dads, you know,
like my dad, probably overly involved. And that's that's become
a little bit more of the norm. You know, not
all the kids have a mom and dad in their home,
but the ones that do, the moms and dads are

(14:24):
really really involved. What was he liked during your basketball career? Uh,
he was, I would say he was. He was. He
was really involved. Um, he gave me a lot of insight,
taught me a lot about the game. And there were
times and says you can imagine Doug, and I'm sure
you you were like this where I probably didn't want

(14:46):
to hear what he had to say because sometimes I
thought he could be a little overcritical, But at the
end of the day, I knew he meant well and
he loved me so um And that's why to this day,
if it's not basketball, because I'm a basketball coach, if
it's something about life, I do listen to him, I
really do. I listened to him so but he helped

(15:07):
me a lot, helped me a lot about playing the
position of point guard and understanding players and how to
build relationships and build truck and and you know, those
lessons have certainly helped me in my profession right now
at this very moment. So very very very very fortunate

(15:28):
to have had him in my ear. You know, Yeah,
why why you by Well, Bradley at the time was
coming off a couple of successful years because I was
coming right behind Hrsty Hawkins and Jim Lesson and had
never really been to the Upper Midwest m to visit.

(15:51):
And during the AAU seasons when I would play in
the summertime, whenever I would on across individuals a player
years from that part of the country, they were all
ways and almost always the ones that were most difficult
to guard and play again, so I figured, Okay, if
I'm playing against these individuals and I'm and I'm not

(16:12):
having a whole lot of chief and maybe I'll go
up there and learn how to play like that. And
Bradley was very forthcoming and their interests of me and
had a position for me. And it was a private school,
and I loved the living situation and it just worked out,
you know, it worked out. I had other schools at
the time recruiting me, but Bradley was the one that

(16:34):
made the most sense at the time, and that's why
I went. I went to school there. So you want
to go play for stan all Back? Right? What was
I did? I played for stan all Back. Yeah. I
played for stant all Back for two years, my first
two years there, and that was good. You know. It
was a different brand of basketball than when I was
accustomed to. Um, you know, kind of more open and
more fast paced. And to be quite honest with you,

(16:57):
toek the record books, we weren't very good first two years.
Um blared Bradley and stand left and then in comes
to Jim Mulinary and I played for Jim Mullinery for
my last two years and eventually ended up working for
him as a coach for nine years. So Jim Mullinery

(17:17):
and I are great friends today. He's like a big
brother to me. So those last two years I learned
a different brand of basketball there. Doug gotta learn how
to play defense. And so I don't I don't know
even know this, but Jim Mallary of course went to
Kansas State. My dad some you're going to play play
play Kansas State and or Jack Hartman exactly exactly. So

(17:39):
obviously the coach coach mall now is is that coach
mo is? That is? That? Is that Oklahoma? All right?
So your horse's right. So your first couple years, you're
going up and down, going up and down, not a
lot of success. Jim mullinary comes in and you know
how it works nowadays with you've been a part of
new staffs. New staffs generally your run guys off and
you bring in your own eyes. What was it when

(18:02):
Jim all Ary first got the job, they you try
and run you off. No, no, no, no, a matter
of fact, it was just the opposite. And he'll tell
you the story if you have a talk to him.
When you take over a new job, obviously, as a coach,
you interview all the players and all the support staff
and you kind of get a feel for what's in place,
and fortunately for me, every player that he interviewed, all

(18:26):
of my teammates, said Keith Dwayne, You said, Keith Dwayne. Okay,
And I think because I was a well liked individual
and so I stayed. And that's kind of how it
all happened with me continuing my career and getting a
college degree from Bradley. You know, I was obviously I

(18:48):
was a little nervous um because of the coaching change,
but it all worked out. I mean, it all worked out,
and I I was a start of my junior year,
and there was a crop of freshman that came in
my senior year and I started half the season, and
then the second half of my senior year, I came

(19:10):
off the bench as a six man. What was possibly
fine because we became a really really good team. And
then when I started coaching, I mean, we were really
really good. So it all worked out. You know, it
all worked out, and I was I was fortunate to
please to have had a chance to stay and be
on coach's staff and be on his team. So it
all worked out. It was good, all right. I want

(19:32):
to get to a couple of things you learned during
the bad years. You're I think it was your sophomore year.
You guys were eight and twenty. Your best players a
guy named Curtis Stuckey. He averaged twenty five. Right, Okay,
how can a guy average twenty five a game in
the valley and you guys be so bad? Why why
did you now win? Well? I think we had probably

(19:57):
had less of an attention detail and the defensive end,
you know, I think we probably had some chemistry issues, um,
and I think those two were the main things. Well, honestly,
I think you know, we probably had you know, players
that didn't work on her game enough and um, as
a result, didn't get any better. So so I think

(20:20):
that's what that's what happens, and that's what typically happens,
and all players aren't as good as they need to be,
and um, you know, there's no chemistry and and and
people don't want to work together if I recall, and
that's what happened, and we collapse. You know, your your
your senior year, you mentioned you started coming out the bench.
You had a freshman name Dion Jackson, another freshman name Billy, Right, Right,

(20:42):
what's that? What's that like to be? Wait? You've been
here four years, You've been through all of it, Like,
do you remember the emotions of the time where you
were you really good with it? Were you really that
good at teaming? Well? Well, initially know it was an
embarrassing thing, but but I had such I had forced
such a great relationship with coach Mullen and her in
the staff, and I think on that particular staff, Rob

(21:03):
was now at Martet and then Richard McKay was on
that staff who is now at Liberty doing a phenomenal job.
They pulled me in and told me this would be
best for our program, and so and my leader sipabilities impacted.
So you know, I put the bullet dug and accepted

(21:24):
my role, and it worked out for the betterment of
the team. You know, I still played, didn't play as much.
I wasn't playing twenty seven minutes a game, but I
still recall that in crucial moments I was on the
floor and at times Billy Wright, who is now the
head coach at Western Illinois, who's a really good friend
of mine, like a brother to me, was well deserving

(21:44):
of that position. He was. He was well deserving. He
had come off of winning a state championship in a
State of Indiana at Richmond High School and was very
very good, there's no doubt, very very good. And so
it's just something that happened and to take place, and
and and it was good. Like I said, we we
ended up we had a streak in the second half

(22:06):
of the sin where and my numbers maybe wrong the dog,
but we we I think our last nine games we
won seven of them. And what do you want do
you want to do you want to know? Because I
have it, I do have it in front of me,
if you if you'd like to Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,
So you're let's see here it started. Uh, let's see here.

(22:27):
You were eight and three. Let me just make sure
this is the right year here. Uh sorry, that's that's
coach Mall's second year. So his this is his coach Malls?
What his right? Right? You were m nineteen ninety three,
You guys finished up seven and eleven in in valley play.
At one point in the year you were five and fourteen, right,

(22:51):
but you won six of your five of your last
six as that was five of your last six, okay,
last six. Yeah. You you beat Indiana State of the Road.
You held in the thirty six points, right, remember that
beat you beat Tulsa. It was really good. You beat Tulsa,
you beat Illinois State, you lost a drake, you beat

(23:12):
you beat Northern by like almost thirty. Then you beat
De paul uh in a non conference last game of
the season, and then you lost in overtime to Southern Illinois.
That's right, that's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.
That's exactly right. And then the following year, the following
years when it all just kind of came together, and
I was a part of that team. I was. I

(23:32):
was a coach then and I was a directive. Operation
was good? All right? So so you get done playing?
How did it come about that you stayed on staff?
Do you remember? Was there a did you guys have
a meeting when your career was over? What did you
did you appoch about it? How did it work? No? No,

(23:52):
that's so funny story little here. I had been in
a viewed my senior year, the second half of my siyear.
I had been interviewed by the United States Secret Service
three times, because that was the direction I was going
to go into. I was going to go work for
the Secret Service. And if I didn't do that. Then

(24:16):
I had an opportunity to go to law school in Texas.
So I was going to do something in law enforcing
because that was my background. So when I graduated, I
think May fifteenth of that year, I was all set
to come back home to Houston and spend about a
week or two and then I was going to go
off and do all of my education and training with

(24:38):
the Secret Service. That's what I was getting ready to do.
We had a coaching scene. Richard McKay left and went
to Washington, and I went home on a Sunday. I
graduated on a Saturday. I went home on a Sunday.
On Tuesday, Coach Bo called me. He just called me
and says, I hadn't plan teaket at Hobby Airport in Houston,

(25:03):
it's time to come back here and starts her coaching career.
And I'm like, Oh, that's what it's going to be.
And that's how it started. That's exactly how it started.
To call the Secret Service and said I'm out, and
I let the people know at St. Mary's Law School
in San Antonio, Texas that I was not going to
be attending. And that's how it happens. It's exactly how

(25:24):
it happened, and that was twenty five years ago. Twenty
years ago, that's what happened. If you love to be
remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts,
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(25:44):
guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of
unique gifts at one hundred flowers dot com for exclusive
offers and great values. To order today, visit one hundred
flowers dot com. Slash tune in. That's one eight hundred flowers.
Slash tune in. What grows in the forest trees. Sure

(26:05):
no one else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our
sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because
when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we
reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.
Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover

(26:26):
the Forest dot Org, brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the AD Council. And we're live
here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for them,
and there they go, almost on time. This morning, Mom
is coming out the front door strong with a double
armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag

(26:48):
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
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Dead zips the bad clothes and they're off. But looks
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(27:09):
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(27:31):
AD Council. What was your salary your first year? Do
you remember? Well? I was a restricted earnings coach and
so you being well versed in all of college athletics.
I mean you understand that terminology. I was allowed to,
I think, make no more than twenty four thousand dollars
a year. But it wasn't that. It was a lot

(27:53):
less than that. It was a lot less than that.
It was probably somewhere in the teens, as I recall.
So it wasn't a lot, wasn't lot. But I was
very fortunate and very thankful um working for my alma
mater and working for coach mollinaries. So it was it
was a good situation. It was really what how did
that relationship evolve? You know, you he didn't recruit you.

(28:13):
You become a player, you're a starting point guard. Then
you come off the bench for him, then he hires
you as a coach like this, These are different ways
in which how did it evolved? Now you're an assistant coach,
you know, right out of college? What was your relationship
like with with with Jim? Well, I trusted him. I
trusted him, and I think part of the reason I

(28:34):
trusted him so much is because he was he had
proven himself to be a great man of integrity, you know,
his his faith, Um, which we connected on a on
a spiritual level. That way, Um, he taught me a
lot about life, you know, through his faith and through
his integrity. And even though I may not have played

(28:56):
the minutes that a junior or senor would sometimes deserve
because of all the sacrifices if you go through, I
still was an integral part of the team and had
a tremendous r yberal and I think that's where he
saw something in me that would allow me to be

(29:17):
able to become a coach. Okay, I had a relationship
with the young guys, and he thought even though we
were teammates, Doug, there was still enough separation and age
where if I needed to convey a message or get
across instructions that I would still hold and have the

(29:38):
respect of my former teammates and now the guys that
I was coaching. He saw that in me, and he
empowered me to be that way with our young players,
and so that that fourth our rices even more. Your
your best player was your first year was a freshman

(29:58):
named Anthony Parker. He went on to become you know,
in the conference. There's been some great players at Bradley
obviously historically anybody who's been to Peoria knows how big
Bradley basketball is and what a great basketball town it is.
Your first year of coach, what we What were your
initial impressions of Anthony Parker? Uh? You know, I hosted

(30:20):
him on his recruiting visit, so the year before when
I was a senior, he came to campus, and I
found him to be a very intelligent, quick witted, very
talented individual. You know, I had watched film on him
and had kind of fowl his skill set, but had

(30:41):
no idea. I had no idea that he would evolve
and develop into the player that he was at Bradley.
But initially I thought he would be a really good
fit for us because he was exactly what we needed
at a time. We didn't necessarily have a primary score
at his position, and so it was a great fit. Know,
and he was just below the high major um you know, qualification.

(31:06):
You know, he probably could have went to a high
major school but may not have been able to play
his freshman year in gaining all that experience and confidence
that he did that allowed him to be so good
for us. But I knew and our system, I just
had a feeling that he would end up being a
pretty good player. You know, and not to mention his siblings.

(31:29):
You know, like I remember this like it was yesterday.
It's like I remember Candid when she was really really little,
you know, and then and all it's kind of evolved,
and I see one of the best players ever in
women's basketball. So but great family, you know, great family.
So he was a good fit, Doug, is what I'm saying.
That's how I knew it would possibly work. Then we
needed we need him for that position. So I know

(31:52):
the Valley ended up having later on, you know, when
when you know, you go to the late nineties two
thousands had maybe more overall success in the tournament, but
that was probably the golden era of the Valley, right,
I mean you had several different coaches. Tubby obviously in
the late in the nineties had Tulsa and they were

(32:13):
playing fast. You guys were winning twenty a game, you know,
you know, Missouri State when you had Spoon there obviously
was winning a ton of games. What what was the
toughest place to play as a player as a coach
in those days of the Valley, Well, I think you
just mentioned them. So Tulsa, because they had such tradition,

(32:39):
was very difficult to play in. I mean, the fans
were were just amazingly into games and very knowledgeable. Missouri State,
which was at the time Southwest Missouri State, was also
tough because the fans were right on top of you,
right on top of you. So that was pretty think.
Even Wichita State, I can't all the state was kind

(33:02):
of in a decline then. I can't remember, but but
I know it was still difficult to play there. Um,
Southern Illinois was difficult to play at. UH and even
if it always State, you know, you know, you think
back on it, um, you know, with Kevin Stallings and
what he was able to do there, it was just
it was just fascinating and I think that's what made

(33:23):
the valley still competitive. It was a great basketball league,
had great fan support. You you were on TV, and
I think he had a level of palette that for
that particular lead was outstanding. It was it was just
completely outstanding, you know. So not to mention you had
Crayton and then Northern Iowa was pretty good as well,
So it was it was really good. It was it

(33:45):
was very fun to play in and to coaching. So
why did you guys lose momentum? UH? You know, that's
that's a really good question. I think, Um, you know,
I I think when you for a long period of time,
when uh, you recruit a certain area, and I think

(34:07):
the talent level and in in that area that we
were recruiting kind of waned a little bit. Um, would
you like Downsta? Yeah, well Bradley is Central Illinois. You
know Bradley, Central Illinois. And you know, we had some
really good teams like Manuel. I'm sure you've heard about Manuel.
Manuel had the likes of you know, Frankie Williams and

(34:30):
Sergio McClean, and yeah, the exactly we were never going
to get those players, you know, we were just we're
just never going to get those players. So so I think,
you know, not being able to recruit the same way,
um and um, you know just just maybe um other
places just getting better and and and and having more

(34:50):
of a more of a run and uh, you know,
you know, things just happened that way. So I think
that's just kind of how it all went down. Uh.
When when you have to leave, it's it's one thing
to leave a program where you coach for nine years,
but you played there for four years. It's thirteen years
at one place. You know, what what do you remember

(35:13):
about the emotions of leading Bradley. Uh, it was frightening,
you know, and I had I had I think by
the time that I left Bradley, I might have been
married for three years. And my wife is from Peoria
and all of our families there. So it was frightening

(35:34):
on the one end, but on the horizon we could
see great adventure on the other and so um, and
then I was leaving a man who I had entrusted
my life too, basically for the past thirteen fourteen years,
you know, maybe twelve years because I you know, I
only played for two years. But so it was it

(35:57):
was uh, yeah, it was. It was. It was scared,
are but exciting at the same time. So it it
worked out, all worked out. So it so Danny, Danny
Granger was the best young player in Bradley's program. You
guys get fired. What happened next? Right? So then I

(36:20):
went to New Mexico. Um, actually I went to Oregon
State because Richie McKay had done such an incredible job
and an amazing job at Colorado State, I think, and
then he had went to Oregon State and was there,
and so he hired me at Oregon State for two months,

(36:41):
and then after that he got interest from New Mexico,
went to Mexico, and then we went there. So then
I spent the next eleven years of my career New Mexico. Okay,
we're just skipping over here, don't let's not skip over
all this good stuff. Okay. So, so Richie, of course
had been on staff at Bradley when you were there. Yeah,
you guys get fired. This is the way it works,

(37:01):
as most people who listen to this pod. No, it's
all about your basketball family. Richie reaches out to you
and he says, come, come be on my staff at Oregon.
At at Oregon State. So did your you and your
wife find a house? Were only you out there? What happened? No,
we went out, We went out, and we did find
a house, and we were in the beginning stages of

(37:22):
purchasing a house. And I think we were there maybe
two days, and everything was fine, and I go back
to Peoria and then there's the final four. The final
four happened, and then it became crazy because Richie was

(37:46):
then approached by New Mexico at the time, and I
think it was Rudy Davils three Davils from v A
d um and Richie called me one night and said, hey,
did you sign your papers for the house. And I said, ah, no,
but I was about to. He says, we'll get better
hold off because I think we might be going to Albuquerque.

(38:08):
I'm like, oh, okay, And I think I was in
Lolls at the time, you know, trying to get some
trying to get some some some bottems from my house
in Peoria, and because I knew I was gonna move,
so I was gonna have to tidy up some things.
And I could remember looking at my wife and I
just this overwhelming sense of stress just kind of clouded

(38:28):
her face, and I just told us with honey, it's
gonna be okay. So we ended up going to New Mexico.
And you know, there were some other things that took place,
obviously because we had that situation with Danny Gray. You know,
that was that was something that I can't you know,

(38:49):
not talk about, but you know, you mentioned that Danny
Greener was one of the best players that we had
ever had at Bradley, and then all of a suck,
I leave and then following year he has this tremendous
first half of the year and things just didn't work
out for him, and then he leaves, and then he

(39:10):
leaves and ends up at New Mexico. And so if
anybody's falling the store, they know that there was a
lot of NCAA confusion that took place with all that.
But at the very end, nothing really happened and everything
was fine and Danny was able to transfer successfully to

(39:31):
New Mexico sit out of year and then going to
have a very successful career the New Mexico. So okay,
So so look, this is this is a perfect opportunity. Okay,
So let's let's start with the beginning. First time you
saw Danny Granger was in Medory, Louisiana. Where was it?
So it was actually, ironically it was in Dallas, Texas.

(39:51):
It was in Dallas, Texas at a AU event. Mike Coustat,
who is in a long time talent scale, he runs
Texas Basketball Review. When he was just starting out in
the business, he would put on these showcases just like
your father would, and like Dinos and California would. He

(40:12):
just would run these showcases here in North Texas and
he would get the best local as teams as well
as teams from autumnsas Louisiana, Oklahoma and in some cases Kansas.
And so I had a buddy who lived in New
Orleans and he told me, hey, there's a kid from

(40:36):
Grace King High School that you should go see and
his name is Michael Sucks. Okay, I said, Okay, I'll
go check him out because I trusted this individual. As
a matter of fact, this is the good was now
the head coach at the University New Orleans. Okay, it's
Mark's lesson. And Mark told me go see this kid
named Michael Sucks. I'm like, okay, So this is a

(40:59):
fr the afternoon, I get into town and I hustle
over to North Texas and I get my spot and
I'm watching Michael Subs. Michael Subts six foot six, six
foot seven, guard, left handed, fairly athletic, really sport So
I'm watching. When I'm not really focusing on him, I'm

(41:21):
focusing on this other individual. Because the other individual who
was playing really really well, he happened to be sixty nine,
he was long, he was dribbling, passing and shooting and
blocking shots. And I'm saying about said, who is this kid?
So it turns out that Danny who I was looking at,

(41:43):
not by thugs, was the person that I should have
been watching. Danny and Michael Subbs, who are cousins and
they played high school basketball together. So I just happened
to Danny perform at such a high level, and I
knew back at the Missouri Valley there really wasn't a
player like Danny, and that's what intrigued me so much

(42:04):
about him. I thought, Okay, if a player like that
gets into the Valley, it's almost like catching lightning in
a bottle, because because he's so personal, he can play inside,
he can play out, he can block shots, he can
guard the post, he can guard the perimeter. And on
top of that, he was very, very very bright, and
he wanted engineering, and Bradley at the time was was

(42:26):
was no over engineering. So the recruiting process started when
I saw him and did in Texas before his junior
year in high school. And the rest turns out. I mean,
he ends up being a pretty good player. Okay. So
so you're at Oregon State for two months and Richard

(42:48):
quite two months, like two weeks actually, sorry, two weeks,
and and Richie comes in and says, we're going to
New Mexico. And like, okay, getty up, you go to
New Mexico. Um, when did it take Take me through?
What was the process like then? Because now they get
the transfer portal, you know, but this is I mean, like, look,

(43:09):
you kind of got a tiptoe. It's your all on bater.
On the other hand, it's also the place to fire you.
And look, look you're trying to get it going in
New Mexico. If you can get a player that you recruited,
you go, you go do it. How did how did
it really go down? Well? Well, and he's you know,
he's you know, just did no way, shape or form.
Are you asking me to disparage the place that I

(43:30):
went to school? I know you're not asking me that,
So no, no, these are just the facts. Okay, these
are just the facts. Okay. Yes, at the time I
was in business. Okay, at the time I was in business. Okay.
So you're thinking, okay, brand new assistant coach, you trying
to make a splash places is norm for winning, all right,
But it didn't go down that way, Doug. It didn't

(43:51):
go down a way because it's at the very end, remember,
at the very end, nothing really happened with an NCAA.
If you and I both know the nca is very
sterile in what they do. Okay, Really what it came
about of that was just a basically a strong enough
relationship that Danny felt comfortable so that because there was

(44:13):
no transfer, reporter and all this other stuff that goes
on the day, Danny just left Bradley. That's just left Bradley.
Now I know that maybe be hard to believe, but
he left Bradley and he had no else to go,
and so he comes to New Mexico. And that's how
it worked. That's exactly how it worked. So that's the story.

(44:35):
How come you didn't take Michael Suggs. Michael Suggs's cousin.
He's like, hey, hey, well I can't. I can't go
to Mexica too. No. No, Michael Sufts is on scholarship
at at Bradley and he decided to stay because that
was in the best interest of him. Look at your
children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.
It's a storybook world for them. You look and see

(44:58):
a tree, They see the wrinkle face of a wizard
with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure in pebbles,
they see a windy path that could lead to adventure,
and they see you there. Fearless guide, is this fascinating world?
Find a forest near you and start exploring at discover
the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United

(45:18):
States Forest Service and the AD Council. Look to your
children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.
It's a storybook world for them. You look and see
a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard
with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure in pebbles.
They see a windy path that could lead to adventure,

(45:38):
and they see you there. Fearless guide, is this fascinating world?
Find a forest near you and start exploring at discover
the Forest dot org. Brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the AD Council. If I could
be you and you could be me for just one hour,
if you could find a way to get inside each
other's mind, walk a mile in my shoes, Welcome ole

(46:01):
in my shoes. We've all felt left out, and for
some that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can
change that. Learn how it Belonging begins with us. Dot
org brought to you by the Act council, welcome out
and my shoes. So you get Danny Granger. And for

(46:24):
people who don't, I mean, I think I think people
now because Richie is at Liberty and I covered you
guys down there, Like Richie is that Richie And of
course he reinvigorated his career working under Tony Bennett, and
like there are there are lots of people who are
I would, for a lack of a better term, false prophets,
right guys that that that have a Bible in one hand,

(46:46):
but the other hand you have no idea, Like Richie
appears to be the real deal? What is that like
to work for somebody who is is so full of faith?
Um that it's there is no question about how you
do it in terms of doing it the right way.
Like look, New Mexico had not always has not always
before you guys got there been accused of doing it

(47:08):
the right way. I think Fran did, but there's some
other stuff before that. But Richie is a I mean,
Richie's the the real the real deal, isn't he in
terms of not just his faith but as authentic. No,
he's authentic. No, he's authentic. He's authentic. And because of
that you know, he and I had a parent's trusting
relationship and he looked out for me and it was

(47:30):
a really good situation. It was a really good situation.
So um, and he has never waved on his faith,
He has never waved on his character, nor is integrity,
and so um it was it was. It was really
really good. It was really really good. So obviously you
guys are great. When you had Danny, Why couldn't you
Why couldn't Richie sustain it? There? Well, you know, I

(47:53):
think as the story goes, he may not have been
to Mexico's first choice or second choice, right, So when
you're not the first was that when they wanted but
didn't they want Bob Knight? Then when they hired was
that when they hired him, they there was at the
rumor they were gonna get Bob Knight, and then Bob
Knight ended up going to Texas Tech. I think, right
like that feels like I don't know that I that

(48:14):
I don't know. I think, um, I don't know. It
was somebody. It may have been Bob Knight, or it
may have been somebody else. But but I think they
they thought they were I think they thought they were
going to get Rob Evans, and I think they had
solidified plans to hire Rob Evans. And then the next

(48:37):
day everybody in Abuquerque wakes up and it's Richard McKay.
So I think that's I think that's kind of the
way the story went. Um what so, Richie. Richie gets fired,
but you didn't leave, okay. So, so for people who

(48:57):
haven't heard this story, this part of the story amazes me. So,
Richie gets fired, Why didn't you go find another coaching job?
Why did you stay? Well, I made a choice. I
made a conscious choice and decision to try to create
a stable environment for my family as opposed to changing

(49:18):
my ammission as a coach. And at the time, my
wife and I felt like Albuquerque was a good place
to raise our children. You know, they were in school,
she was happy, everything was working. My parents were in Texas.
I was a little bit closer to home, and so

(49:39):
we just decided, Okay, we're going to t work. And
so I went to the administration there and I said,
I don't know if there's anything that you can do,
but if it could be worked out, I'd like to stay.
And they made it work. They made it work, and
so I ended up working on campus teaching a class,

(50:03):
working basically and fundraising, and then doing some outreach for athletics,
and then also doing some things for enrollment services like
actually going out throughout the New Mexico and recruiting, and
so I had a number of different jobs so that
my salary could work. And it was hard work, but

(50:27):
it was probably, honestly, before I got back into coaching.
It was probably one of the most fulfilling eighteen to
twenty four months of my life from a professional standpoint,
and my family in that span of time grew closer together.
My kids were able to enjoy stable environment, and it

(50:47):
was it was good, it was much needed, and so
that's what I did. I made the choice to be
with my family and to make sure they were stable
as opposed to ripping and running all around the country. Right.
So how did you end up on staff with Steve Alford?
So Steve during his first year, and I had known

(51:10):
Steve because of his Missouri State days in my Bradley days,
we competed against each other, so I was very familiar
with him. As a matter of fact, the Deon Jackson
player that you mentioned, and you could do the research
on this in the Missouri Valley Conference tournament. One year,
Deon Jackson basically throws up a Harold Mary Prayer shot

(51:32):
three port and it goes in and it beats Steve's
team to go to the championship game against Tulsa in
the Missouri Valley Conference championship and I can't I think
that was ninety five and I can't remember what it was.
But anyway, so I had known Steve for quite some
time and I had known his staff. He had movement
on his staff after his first year director of operations

(51:54):
opened up the Double Spot, and so I had been
talking to Craig Neil just because I knew him. We
had a relationship. And then Chris Walker was also on
his staff along with Ryan remember where I worked with now,
But Chris Walker and I grew up together group. Chris
Walker and I played in the same AU program in Houston,

(52:14):
Texas growing up. Okay, And so Chris and Craig, I think,
started talking to Steve, and to this day I think
that both of them are great men to have done that.
So Steve calls me and says, what do you want
to do? And that is what do you mean? He says,
do you want to come join my staff because we
certainly use you, and I'm like, shoot a coach. And

(52:35):
at the time, it made sense for me to be
the director of operations because again I had small children
and I just wasn't ready to get back on the
road right away. But meaning to the director of operations
kept me closing up to the game where I thought
I could still have the same impact with the players,
still enjoyed the game of basketball, which I love, and

(52:57):
grow my career in a different directions and learn something new.
And so it made sense without having to travel as
much because I didn't have to recruit. So that's why
I made sense to go back with the year, and
the relationship from there grew tremendously. I mean he and
I forted a great, powerful relationship to this day. I

(53:17):
mean he's he's probably one of my best friends. I mean,
he sees a good man. So I how did that
Because when I switched from ESPN to CBS, my first
couple of my first year at CBS was your your
Guys last year and it was the end of a
run where it was at New Mexico. Yeah, it was

(53:39):
the end of a run where you guys, you guys
won the league four out of five years, which is
virtually unheard of. And for people who forget right, that's
when Senior U State was close to their pretty where
you're talking right, I mean they were, and you guys
were tremendous. Um Nevada was. Nevada was up and down there.

(53:59):
Nevada was down on the But then UNLV was very good.
They had pros. It was a really really good league.
And BYU before they left the league was was very good.
How let's just see Utah as well. Who what was
What's the secret to Steve's success? Because I think people
people will look at at the UCLA thing and even

(54:21):
though he won thirty games one year twenty eight another,
you know, there'll be people who say, well, Steve Alford
didn't do what he's supposed to, Like, ye, he's hut you,
But I mean, like, look what you guys did in
New Mexico is unbelievable. How what brought by your estimation
made that New Mexico run possible? Well, you know, I
think Steve was I think Steve was really big on

(54:44):
on preparation and I think he was very good at
preparing our young men for the right things and games,
and our young men were never really shocked um at
what took place in games, and they were able to
perform whether it was home or away, at such a

(55:07):
high level. And then you throw on top of that
being very fortunate to grab some high quality recruits that
stayed and we got older. Okay, stayed and got older.
And you may not remember this done, but but Steve's
first year, Um, he won twenty something games. Okay, there

(55:30):
was at twenty four. There was talent there. We just
needed a different direction in leadership. That's how it works. Okay,
So the program had already been jumped started, and then
he adds some young players, plucked some transfers with a
system um that that was able to get up and

(55:54):
down and play and defend and had this amazing crowd
behind you. I think it a lot of momentium. I
think it created a lot of momentum. Okay, you had this,
you had the weird thing your your second year, you
had something that was really interesting. You had to your
best players from Albuquerque, right, which, like, look, New Mexico
is already if you haven't been to the pit when

(56:16):
they're good, I would I would challenge anybody to find
a better environment the place since before you done is
is perfect. Obviously you got altitude, but more than anything,
if students are always nuts, right, and every place has
a guy like like Snake, right, they all have a
play guy like Snake, but the locals there are crazy.

(56:37):
And then when you had I was a Chad was
a topert and Daniel Ferris to Ferris right, to go
with to go with Tony Dandridge like you gotta come
to local kids who are playing. That place was Bunkers,
Oh yeah, oh yeah. And those kids were around four
years right, yeah, and they had name recognition and then

(57:00):
people knew of them and they were good players. They
were good players. And we also had a young man
from il Pass, Texas named Romond Martinez who was pretty
good and he was with that group, you know. And
then like I, like I mentioned before, we had a
couple of transfers. He had Derek Kitton's in that group
and so and that was Stace Hurtster obviously, but but

(57:21):
again I just I just think there was such a
massive following and Steve just hit it at the right
time and created a lot of momentum. Create a momentum.
So there's a couple of guys I want to ask
a couple of guys. I want to ask you about
in terms because because one of the things I think
you guys did a really good job of his player evaluation. Right.
It's because like, look, Tony snells from Riverside and he

(57:44):
became a hell of an NBA player, But he wasn't crazy,
heavily recruited. You weren't fighting UCLA for him. You know what,
How did take me through the evaluation process of somebody
like a Tony Snell? So watching Jones, who was a
former coach of cal It was on our staff at

(58:05):
the time at New Mexico, and he had connections because
before that, I think he was the grassroots director at Nike.
Now I maybe saying it wrong, but I think he
did something to that effect. So he had the worst
of knowledge about a Yeah, yeah, he had a wealth
of knowledge about players from in particular Los Angeles because

(58:27):
that's where he's from. So Tony Snell, along with Kawhi Leonard,
along with Jamal Franklin, they all grew up together. They're
all very good friends, and they were all out in
the Riverside area. I think the San Bernardino area of California,
which didn't get a lot of recognition. Then it just didn't,

(58:47):
you know, it just didn't get a lot of recognition,
and we were fortunate to be able to bring him
on campus. But again, Tony Snell was long. We could
we could see that offensively, running him off screens and
being able to rise up the defense and shoots and
his field for the game in terms of what he
could do off the dribble, could probably work in our system,

(59:09):
could probably work. And when Tony first got there, he
was attempting to get his academics in order, so he
didn't play the first semester, and Tony and I spent
just about every day of that first semester building our relationship.
So now there was a trust, you know, because he

(59:30):
wasn't a real sociable kid, Doug. It just wasn't. But again,
I think that's why the Albuquerque environment was good for him,
because people embraced him for who he was, and at
the time, the expectations for him weren't very high. So
then he was able to grow into his role and
it worked, and we put him into place where he
could be successful. We had an offensive and defensive system

(59:54):
that highlighted what he can do, and he lifted weights.
He became a better student, and the rest is history.
And that's how it worked. That's how I've worked. You
had a kid named Cameron Barstow, who yes, who he
made the NBA, which is crazy. What was when he
first showed up on campus in New Mexico? What do

(01:00:14):
you remember? I remember a kid that was very hungry. Okay,
and Ryan Miller was on our staff at TCU, was
the lead on that. He had some connections over in
Australia and I had a couple of myself. But when
he got out on campus, I mean he was hungry
for everything. He was hungry for food, He was hungry

(01:00:34):
to get better, he was hungry to get stronger. I
mean he was hungry. Dubbed every day. Every day after practice,
he would take advantage of getting in the gym, lift
weights and then going and get into the hydrotherapy pool.
So okay, showing up all time doing everything, he just
was He just he just wanted to be a player.
He just wanted to be a player at a time

(01:00:55):
when his physitality m was a premium. Like he was
the most physical player we had and we were playing
in the leaves that at the time, I don't want
call it being that physical, you know, it was. It
was a good up and down league at times, and
guys could score and there was some count there or
the person that was really physical. And see, that was

(01:01:16):
his super power. And he worked at it, and he
worked at it for four years and I think that's
why he made the NBA. Then he just was so
hungry to be a great player. So Steve signs a
ten year contract. You guys won the league. I called
the game where you lost to Harvard, obviously, and I thought, right, um,

(01:01:37):
I think I think it was Barstow who got in
the foul trouble and they went small on you, and
uh what was it, uh Laurent Rivard or whatever. We
end up hitting you, hitting a bunch of threes on
you guys. But he come back from the corner little shaky. Yeah. Well,
I mean like I thought, I thought you should have

(01:01:57):
gone I thought you should have gone small. And here
he kept one, stayed stayed one to stay with his
strength and play with your bigs. Anyway, he signs a
ten year contract. You're like, all right, you know I've
been here through two staffs. I stayed even when I
wasn't a coach, and then all of a sudden, he's like, no,
I'm gonna go to UCLA. What do you remember about
when Steve said I'm going to UCLA? Well, let me

(01:02:21):
see it was about it was about ten hours. Okay,
it's about ten hours. So Steve called me at nine
o'clock at night. It was on a Friday, and so
ten hours prior to that, I had gotten a call
from a buddy of mine in Los Angeles who's an agent,
and he said, hey, you know you need to get
ready for this because I think I think you're moving

(01:02:43):
to Los Angeles. Said well, why why do people in
Los Angeles? Because he told me at the time that
he thought Steve was gonna be the next coach at UCLA.
I'm like, yeah, whatever, that's exactly what I said. I
said whatever. So I hang up the phone and I
go on about my day. And then at nine o'clock
at night, Steve calls me, and I think something's wrong, Dub,
something's wrong. Because I would talk to Steve all the time,

(01:03:04):
but typically at night he wouldn't call me because that
was family time. It was family time. Three calls me
and I think something's wrong, and then he just he
just tells me. He says, look, we've had a tremendous
run here at at New Mexico and it's been great
for everybody. Okay, but it's time to move on, and

(01:03:24):
I'm gonna go to UCLA. And at that particular juncture
when he said that, the next words that were getting
ready to come out of my mouth. We're gonna be well, congratulations, coach,
you deserve it. Hey, good luck. But I have a
chance to do that because he said, and you're coming
with me, and I'm like, oh, okay, and then he

(01:03:46):
hung up the phone, and then we met the team
the next day. That's past me how it happened. And
I told him my wife and then it's like, okay,
here we go. Okay. It's because because you go from
not being on his initials half to the d b
O and obviously Noodles Tragneil end up staying behind him
getting the job. But to be going you're the only

(01:04:07):
guy he took with you. What that had to that
had to mean, I mean, that had to mean an
incredible amount. Oh, it meant the world to me, Doug.
They meant the world to me that he would consider
me for a job of that magnitude to admit the
world to me. It spoke volumes about what he felt

(01:04:28):
and what he thought about my ability and my character
and the job that I could do. So, yeah, it was,
it was quite. It was quite an honor and it
made me feel really really welcomed and a part of
his family for real, you know. So it was good.
It was, it was. It was very pleased, and there

(01:04:50):
was a privilege to do that, for him to ask me,
you go to LA and now Allison, you're in LA
and this isn't this isn't what you had been upon
part of ever in your basketball life, where every everywhere
else you have to hope that somebody else doesn't want
the kid that you are going after UCLA you can

(01:05:11):
pick you, you know, any any handout that has the
top ten kids a position you picked from the top ten.
What is the difference like in trying to recruit at
a UCLA um Also, but look now, La, you know
my brother when he was at Cow, my memories like,
you don't want to have too many LA kids to
LA kids? Are they all the parents have an angle?
They want a reality show? Just this too. Much. What

(01:05:34):
was that like for a kid from Sugarland, Texas by
way of Bradley, by way of I mean, it was
everything that you would expect to be, Doug. I mean
it was. It was basketball on a world stage. It's
a historically rich tradition oriented place, expectations out of the

(01:06:00):
and rightfully sold. And so it was daunting, to say
the least, to walk the grounds of Westwood and of
the campus and to be in paul A Pavilion. It
was quite an experience, so much so, and I tell
this story to a lot of people every day that
I was at work there, Before I would get out

(01:06:23):
of my car, you know, I I'd have to say
a prayer because it's one of those jobs that demands
the very best every single day of what you have
to offer. And I've always been that way. I'm always
going to give one hundred percent no matter where I am. Um.
But I think there it was it became more crystallized

(01:06:44):
because now everybody was really watching. Everybody was watching. So
but it was and it's not a bud I shouldn't say,
but but it was. It was. It was a very
unique and fascinating experience for me. I enjoyed it. I
gotta ask. I got ask though, like you go from
you go from New Mexico and New Mexico. When you

(01:07:06):
guys had it rolling, you guys would roll into Thomas
and Max Center at UNLV and it would it would
be like the pit, right, you had incredible fans support.
Now you're got to use sailing where they got more
banners than anybody, and it's really hard. Even though the
building is brand new and it's UCLA and it's Steve Alford,
it's really hard. Until you had Lonzo, was really hard

(01:07:28):
to draw people. What was that like for especially for Steve,
not just you, but for Steve, a guy who, like dude,
he's Indiana schoolboy legend. He had sold out high school
games with more people than UCLA games. What is that
like as a staff to process? Well, I think you
just we had to. We had to get accustomed to
the fact that sometimes because of the game times and

(01:07:51):
because of the LA traffic, you may not have people
at the beginning of games. But typically, if I recall
doing the first year, especially when we kind of started winning,
our crowds are pretty good toward half time and beyond. Okay,
but that wasn't the amazing part about it, though, Doug
that the crowd, that's one thing, okay, but we we

(01:08:13):
can't play for the crowd, correct. We have to play
to win and have to coach our guide. What was
the most amazing part to me was sitting on the
bench and looking on the floor and say, wow, you
know there's like potential NBA players on this floor and
I have a chance to coach these guys. That was
the most fascinating part to me. Were a coachable as

(01:08:37):
the New Mexico guys, Oh, no question. And the reason
I say that, and you probably agree with me, guys
that are coachable and guys that work together tippic we
can win, okay, the tip that we can win. Ben
Holland had put together a great recruiting class and they
had great players there. Okay, they just had them to

(01:09:00):
buy into what Steve was talking about. All right. We
won twenty eight games a year, so it was working
and they were coachable. They really were coachable. And I
think at that stage when and maybe this is not
the case because I haven't been everywhere, so I'm not
trying to generalize. I just know about the kids we
had there that first year. The kids we had there,

(01:09:21):
they were open to everything and they listened. Okay, from
Kyle Anderson and Norman Powell to the We're Twins, to
Jordan Adams to Zach Lavine, you know, Bran Sofford, you
know Tony Parker. They they listened and it worked. So,
just going back to my original thought, that was the

(01:09:43):
amazing part to be in a program where you actually
have a chance to coach that type of student athlete.
It was amazing. It was, it was, it was. It
was truly amazing. How come? Um, I always felt like
when Steve's teams at New Mexico, we're tough. As you
point out Barstow rugged. You guys were great and physical defensively,

(01:10:05):
it felt like, and obviously this is after Lonzo and
Bryce graduated, um, but it always felt like you struggled
to get that same sort of physicality defensively. Was it
the type of kid? Was it? You didn't have a
leader that was tough? Why did Because Steve's teams were
tremendous defensively, and yet when you got to when you

(01:10:27):
got to Westwood, they weren't the same. Why do you
think that was? Well? I think it probably had a
little bit to do with us being just young. I
think that's what it ended up being. I mean, after
Bryce and Lonzo and that group left and we became
really really young. You know, we didn't have I don't know,
we had very few juniors. I don't you think we

(01:10:48):
had any juniors on that on that fifth year team,
So I don't know, you could probably look at it
right in front of I can't remember, but I think
that was part of it, you know, just just having
players that were young and talented but not understanding what
it took to win at a high level consistently. Okay,
That's that's what I think was happening, and that's I

(01:11:11):
think that's that's that ended up being probably our demise,
to be honest with you, so not getting old enough.
What what was it like to coach Lonzo? Lonzo was
he was you know what he was like? He was
like you know when you grew when you were growing

(01:11:31):
up and you're greg would get together and mom and
dad would get you a toy, like a like a car.
You just wind it up and you just let it go.
That's what it was like. You just gave him a
couple of instructions and because of his feel for the game,
you never really worried about him making the right play,
whether it was on offense or defense, and if he
happened to make a mistake, you knew that he was

(01:11:53):
probably gonna do sixteen things better the next time. So
it was, it was. It was coaching at a level
that really wasn't stressful when he was on the floor.
I mean, he was able to interpret to a team
what Steve wanted, and he was able to convey that
in his own way to our to his teammates, and

(01:12:14):
it just worked. I mean, it was, it was. It worked.
He knew exactly what play to make and when to
make it, and he had been playing on such a
high level up until that point, and he was playing
with all these expectations because I mean, as you know,
probably since the time he was eighth and eighth, eighth grade,
ninth grade, the spotlight was on him and his family

(01:12:36):
so much that he just embraced it. And so when
he got to UCLA, it was just the next step.
It just was the next step. And so coaching him
that was a treat. That was that was that was
really a treat to coach him. He was he was
he was phenomenal for us. How did how did how?
What was it like to coach a lonzo with LaVar? Like,

(01:12:57):
did you guys when LaVar said, you guys are gonna
win national championship? When he complained about other guys on
the team, you know, specifically about Bryce and white kids
playing defense, what was what was that like? Yeah? Yeah,
I think I think Vaar in particular, and I know
him and I love him, and I know him and

(01:13:18):
love him simply because in the recruiting process we had
spent so much time together, okay, and I knew exactly
what he was trying to do. Okay, he was promoting,
which is perfectly fine. The next day when he would
make those comments, he would call me and he would
just laugh about it, and we would just shrug it
all off and we would just try to maintain focus
with our team. That sort of stuff didn't start happening

(01:13:39):
until later in long freshman year, and at that time
we couldn't really focus on that dog. We had to
focus on our team, okay. So that's how we had
to manage it. That's how we had to manage it.
That's what happened. So if you could make one different
decision in terms of guy or things that is there

(01:14:01):
anything you felt like you could have done personally? As
Steve you're Steve, Steve Alford's right hand guy. Is there
something you could have done to save it? Well, you
know you have to have heavy shoulders to coach there, right,
You know, I I think about it all the time.

(01:14:23):
I do. I think about it all the time. And
maybe being stronger and communicated to him what we needed
to do, you know, in the areas the game that
we need to focus on, you know, maybe getting older,
maybe becoming more physical. You know, that's and I probably
should have stepped up and talk about those things more
with him, But that would probably be it. That would

(01:14:47):
probably be it. So now you work now, you work
for Jamie Dixon, a guy who he's had super physical teams. Right,
he's coaching now at his al Monte much like you
coach it. What is Jamie like in comparison to the
other men you've worked for? You know, they're they're all
they're all very very bright individuals. Okay, you don't get

(01:15:09):
to the level of head coach and stay there for
a long time without having a firm grip on how
to coach the game and how to recruit it and
how to relate to people you just can't And so
James is different in that area. There's no different in
that area. I think in practice he is a fierce competitor,

(01:15:30):
and I think he tries to put our young men
in adverse situations so that when game time comes, nothing
is ever a surprise, nothing is ever surprised. And I've
noticed that about him. And the thing that I probably
appreciate about him the most is he never lets you
feel sorry for yourself, and he never allows you to

(01:15:54):
make excuses. He never allows you the opportunity to feel
like you can be complacent. He just keeps moving it forward.
And that, to me, has been an area in my
life in particular, where I needed to improve, you know,
dealing with success. You know, how do you deal with that?

(01:16:16):
Do you lighten up or stop working or do you
keep pushing and being with Jamie for the past set
of months, I mean, it's it's been remarkable in that area. Remarkable.
What do you think you have to do to get
that head coaching job. Well, probably continue to win, and
continue to recruit well and and just continue to pray. Doug,

(01:16:41):
it's really out of my control. It's kind of anybody's control,
you know. It's sometimes it's a little bit of luck here.
It's who you know there and where you're positioned, you know.
And I don't worry about it as much anymore. I
just I just go out and try to do the
very best job that I can do. I try to
represent myself and my family and institution and a staff
that I'm working with the best of my ability. That's

(01:17:02):
what I try to do. And if someone recognizes that
and they see that my skill sets can help them
be their head coach, then you know what, I probably
will get an opportunity. If not, then that's okay too.
That's okay too. Okay, let me go, let me go
through the let me go through these men that you
work for. Jim mullinery, his greatest strength is what, uh,

(01:17:26):
it's personal integrity. It's personal integrity. But I but yeah,
But if if I go but okay as a coach,
like do you think because I mean, then I go,
Richie McCain, you probably say the exact same thing as
a Kiche I would. I would say, I would say
Richie's compassion. I would say Richie's compassion. But if you're
talking about like as a coaching coaches, I would say,

(01:17:50):
I would say his defensive prowess. I think he has
a genius like makeup when it comes to defense. Okay, Um,
is there any does he teach? Does he teach? Was he?
Because now everybody's loading up in the ball it's kind
of pac line? Did he force middle? We were more

(01:18:11):
pac line defense? There were more pac line defense. That's
where we were, if I recall correctly. Okay, Richie, what
was Richie's greatest strength as a coach? Well, I think
I think Richie was the opposite I think Richie. I
think Richie has a phenomenal offensive mind. Steve Alford, I
think Steve Alford understands how to teach motion at a high,

(01:18:36):
high level. Yeah, yeah, Steve Alford level. Yes. I mean, look,
you guys really screened well. You moved well as a beautiful,
beautiful thing, exactly. Um. The screening part to me was
the part that so few teams. You know, obviously Virginia
wins a national championship and they screened the hell out
of you. But I felt like you guys might have

(01:18:57):
been at New Mexico. You might have been the best
screening team in the country that was part of that physicality. Yeah,
really react, Yeah, and he was. He was just telling
you and rightfully saw. I mean he played for probably
arguably one of the best pure coaches in the game,
you know, so so all that was you know, it's
quit it too because Chris Beard coached under Bob Night

(01:19:19):
and Chris Beard runs incredible motion, you know, so unbelievable. Um,
all right, Jamie Dixon. Something that surprised you about Jamie
Dixon as a coach that you didn't know before you
coached under him. I think he understands great spacing on offense,
great spacing. And I didn't know that because I just

(01:19:41):
kind of assumed that when I when I with all
of his teams at pitt and I watched, but I
watched from afar, and I think he was extremely successful.
But you always were hear Jamie Dixon's teams are tough,
you know, their defensive ooring and all this other stuff.
But when I got into practice and I started to

(01:20:02):
understand what he was teaching on offense, I was amazed.
I mean, he does a phenomenal job and teachings and
does spaces and and you know that's that and also
to helping our players understand where the defense might be
and then you go make a move. You know, whether

(01:20:22):
it's drawing kick or or driving the second or third side,
or or you swing the ball, here comes the ball
screen and then you hit the throwback out the behind. Guy.
It's been amazing to be a part of that. Amazing
to be a part of that. UM coach you admire
from are you talking about from a far? Give me

(01:20:43):
one coach you admire from far? Well, I don't know
if he's coaching now. Uh does it have to be
a proculchur or college? Can be anybody you want. Bernie Bickerstaff,
why is that so? Growing up in Houston, Texas, I
was a ballboy for the Houston Rockets for nine years.

(01:21:05):
So I was a ballboy during the time of from
the beginning of Rudy, Tom Jonovis, Moses Malone all the
way to Ralph and the Key. Okay, So I was
a ballboy doing that span of time. He was a
coach with the Seattle Super Songs, and the way that
he handled Xavier McDaniel and Dale Ellis was phenomenal because

(01:21:27):
at the time, Doug, when I was a ball boy,
I was working behind the visiting bench. I did that
for eight years, even when I was like as early
as third and fourth grade, I was behind the bench,
and so I probably didn't pay as much attention to
the strategy of coaching and how he did it, but
certainly how he challenged his players and how they respected him.

(01:21:48):
And for that, he's always been one of the most
admire coaches in my entire life. Because Xavier McDaniel was
a heck of a player. You know that, and it
wasn't always easy to deal with. So no, your your
personal he doesn't have to be your best player, your

(01:22:08):
personal favorite player you've ever coached, who probably can't. UM,
I probably can't quantify that in just one but I
will tell you this. I'll say that Aaron Holliday, Aaron
Holliday is a very good player, Doug, very good player,

(01:22:33):
Aaron Holliday. UM. All right, well, listen, it's been amazing
to catch up with you. I it makes me like
excited about watching TCU play just because I know you
and I got to know each other some. I are
you getting to know my brothers some And now all
of a sudden, I'm all in on where your next
stop is. UM. This. This has been remarkable, and I congratulation.

(01:22:57):
It's one of those things. It's one of those things
I think you have it, but I don't know if
it's like I talk to my brother about this all
the time, and I honestly, jay Bill has taught me this.
Jay Bill has said how old are you? And I
said at the time, I think I was like forty.
And he's like, look, you've basically got to you about like,
you know, like fifty five. Once you're fifty five on TV,
they're kind of they're sixty, they're kind of done with you.
Like and if you can work, you know, like what

(01:23:20):
we call work. For your entire life covering basketball or
covering sports, you're not really working. And so yeah, do
you want to? Like you said, your your perspective is
amazing that if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, right,
if I don't take the next step in my career.
But to be able to provide for your family while
loving sports, specifically basketball like we do, it's pretty amazing, right,

(01:23:42):
And and there are conversations like this in moments where
you're like, I should have the kind of perspective that
you have. H Thank you yeah, you know, sport is
it's a privilege. I mean, it's you know, at the
end of the day, no matter how stressful we get,
no matter what type of problems you have, I've always

(01:24:02):
reflected back on the fact that it's basketball, man. I mean,
it's basketball. Yeah, but yeah, but how how does that?
How does that? How does that work at home? Right?
You're you're an incredible family man. And and look, I
look at UCLA. As much as there was a lot
discussed about your guy's future, it's not sports. Radio is
not as big. It's not like a small town where

(01:24:23):
that's all anybody talks about. But I'm sure it affects
you at like, how did you handle that as a husband,
as a father when people are talking about your job status. Well,
I learned a long time ago to compartmentalize my life, Dougs.
So why came home and I drove on National Boulevard

(01:24:47):
and I went under the four or five and was
headed west to my house. All of my job stress
went away with me. Period. That's that's that's what it
was at UCLA. And I got up in the morning
and got back on National to get over to Pico.
When I drove underneath the four or five again, and

(01:25:08):
sometimes my job was still over into my house, but
most times I tried not to let it bother any
aspect of my family life because I knew that just
as my job needed the very best is Dwayne Broussard,
my family also needed the very best. And so that

(01:25:31):
was how I've managed it that way every since I
started coaching, every since I started coaching. And much like yourself,
you grew up in a basketball family. Bit around basketball
your life, remember it. So when I was in the
third grade, I was in the NBA. I was a
ball boy from the Rocket. So I saw all of
that ill all of my life too, and so you

(01:25:52):
just kind of have to learn those things. And you know,
I'm not saying everybody does it the way I do.
I'm not and I'm not suggesting that. But for me,
I learned how to compartment alive. It's a that's what
I don't think I got. Yeah, So it's a great
it's a great trait to have. Dwayne. Have a great night.
Thanks so much for joining us in the All Ball
Podcast and looking forward to seeing Horn Froggs. Okay, thank you,

(01:26:13):
thank you, Doug, thank you for the opportunity man. Okay, perfect, Wayne.
Thanks again. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon, Pacific.
All my thanks to Dwayne Brussard. That was Yeah, I
mean just his life so far has been interesting. Can't
wait to see what he does does next. Obviously got
a huge weekend in college hoop. These conferences are I mean, like, look,

(01:26:37):
I was talking with a WCC coach, right, and obviously
Gonzaga he's gonna run rough shot over the bottom of
that league. But the rest of the team's the top.
Saint Mary's by U through Pacific, San Francisco, Santa Clara,
who San Francisco just beat Like. There's obviously three or
so legit NCAA tournament teams and maybe four, maybe four.

(01:27:01):
You know, Oregon with the big win over Arizona. Paid
Pitcher continues to make big shots and big plays, and
I think you know Dan Altman is his teams almost
always get better. Arizona does appear to be an NCAA
tournament team. Arizona stay with a big win over Oregon State,
We'll see what they do against Oregon this upcoming weekend.
Washington's fallen on a little bit of hard times with

(01:27:23):
you know, losing your point guard, two academics, kind of
a weird time year. Obviously the quarter system UH could
allow them to get him back, but you know, you know,
I don't want to say, like with Stanford coming from
behind and beating them, it does feel like Stanford can
be an NCAA tournament team, Washington can be an NCAA
tournament team, and then you go with Arizona USC so

(01:27:49):
that league's not not terrible. The demise of West Coast
hoops has been kind of greatly exaggerated. Obviously, the Mountain
Mountain West, it's San Diego State's league to win or
to lose. And New Mexico, who all see in person
this weekend. You know, you have suspensions the two starters,
JJ Calwell and Carlton Bragg, those guys in Bragg being back,

(01:28:11):
but maybe the damage is done. So the Mountain West,
I thought was at least a two bid league. You
know if if New Mexico, maybe three of New Mexico.
But Utah State just has not played well. Who's in
the UNLV then obviously at a home to San Diego State,
adding Niemakada has not made them better. I think ultimately
obviously it will. Anyway, fired up for this weekend in

(01:28:32):
college hoop, I'll give you my thoughts maybe next week.
On the Kevin Durant thing, just real quick, on the
Kevin Durant versus Kendrick Perkins steel is this. I don't
think KD needed to go there, Like Kevin Durant can,
in fact be a punching bag, But like, what are
we doing here where we're allowing a former teammate and

(01:28:54):
I like Kendrick Perkins, I don't dislike him. Allow if
somebody says you made the weakest move in the history
of the NBA switching from Oklahoma City to the Golden
State Warriors, winning two championships in three years, two finals
MVPs versus Lebron James, all right, look, you're entitled to

(01:29:15):
your opinion, but you gotta take some pushback there. Like
that would be like me, you know, saying somebody made
the weakest move in the history of college basketball, you know,
switching from one school to another as a coach and
somebody coming after me about my free throw shooting or
where my shorts backwards? Like yeah, that that happens. It's
not that big a deal. People get super mad, like,

(01:29:35):
if you're gonna talk talk shit, then you got to
know the other guy's gonna talk. It doesn't talking shit
doesn't work to where like I talk shit and you
go like that's a good one, good burn, dude. So
I think a little bit of this is two guys
talking shit and Twitter getting caught in the middle of it.
I think a little bit of it is Kendre Perkins
has now entered I'm on Team Lebron, not Team KD,

(01:29:58):
and it's Kevin Rampio really sensitive, but I'm not sure.
I don't I would disagree with Kevin Durrant being sensitive,
you know, like he was the best player on Earth
for the last three years. Now he's hurt. People seem
to have forgotten, and all they won't forget is that
he left Oklahoma City, who somehow is up three to
one on the Golden State Warriors. I would disagree with

(01:30:18):
Agent zero on Oklahoma City, regressing they added Victor Oladipo.
It would have been Russell Westbroo, Kevin Durant, Victor Oladipo.
And while they may not have had the shooting, I
think they would have been better, all right. More on
that upcoming in future episodes. In the meantime, thanks for
listening both to The Gottlieb Show daily three to six Eastern,
twelve to three Pacific, and of course to this podcast,

(01:30:41):
which is all ball. Get right to the romance and

(01:31:02):
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All Ball - Roy's "Least Gifted" UNC Team; TCU Asst. Duane Broussard On Discovering Danny Granger, Coaching Lonzo Ball

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Colin Cowherd

Jason McIntyre

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}All Ball - Roy's "Least Gifted" UNC Team; TCU Asst. Duane Broussard On Discovering Danny Granger, Coaching Lonzo Ball