June 26, 2020 • 40 mins
Colin Kaepernick getting legitimate interest from NFL teams
Have the Packers underachieved with Aaron Rodgers?
Colin's top five QBs who throw the most 'catchable' ball
The Jets mishandle the Jamal Adams situation again
Guests: Eric Mangini, former Jets & Browns Head Coach
Trent Dilfer, Super Bowl Champion
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is a Friday.
(00:25):
It is a wonderful day. We are now moving seamlessly
into the summer. This is the Herd. Wherever you may be,
however you may be listening. We're on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports
Radio and FS one. Right here. Joy Taylor is joining
me for Pack today. Eric Mangini, Trent Dilfer, Jamal Crawford,
(00:49):
Christen Star, Jason McIntire, A lot of people today on
a Friday, I fairly have to work to a lot
of interesting guests. Goolay is here as well. Joy. How
are you Happy birthday to Shannon Sharp. He's not in
studio today, but it's Shannon's birthday. It is today, Yeah,
it Sunk's birthday. How do you know that? How the
Internet's the Internet? That's it's really bad. That's actually I'm
(01:12):
very bad with birthdays, and the Internet has kept me,
kept me honest with the birthdays. Really like Facebook, It's
very it's crucial. Congratulations on getting older, Shannon Sharp's a
big milestone for all of us. He's one day older.
Bayayay wow hs one fan a lot of people getting
(01:32):
closer to the end. It's great. So um, let me
start with this. If you listen to me for any
length of time, you know I bounced around the country.
I grew up in a non traditional childhood. We didn't
go to church. I'm agnostic. Don't have a problem being
authentic about that. In America today, if you are willing
to sort of evolve or change, you get called woke.
(01:56):
And there are some people I think are a little wokey.
But some of us are more comfortable. Now. I'm not
blaming you if you like comfort. Some of you have
grown up in the same town, You've worked for the
same company, you've been in the same zip code. You
still hang out with your same high school college friends.
There is nothing wrong with that. That is not my
life experience. I have moved for commerce, I've moved for opportunity,
(02:21):
and you know a lot of you would go, oh,
that's sad, and I'm like, I have so many cool
people in my life that I would have never met
had I not lived in Tampa, had I not lived
in Connecticut. I never thought I'd live in rural Connecticut.
It's fantastic. It's a whole new way of life. I
never thought i'd live in Los Angeles, Las Vegas. I
(02:41):
lived in the Pacific Northwest. It's a total gift. But
I'm not saying your experience is any less. But I
don't think it's necessarily any more. I've been given opportunities,
met people, had great relationships formed that I'd never have
stayed in the same hometown. So I am really comfortable
with change, and I'm really comfortable with cultural change because
(03:05):
I've always felt I'm a surfer. Life's a wave. Just
ride the momentum where it's gone. I don't fight the wave.
When I first moved to Manhattan Beach, I go down
with a coffee to the pier and I'd sit there
forty five minutes every Saturday, and I'd watch all these
surfers on the waves, and the better the surfer, though
rarely they jumped into a wave, they waited for the
(03:26):
perfect wave. Why waste your time in a bad wave.
And so I think about this story this morning that
Colin Kaepernick is drawing interest from several teams. Well, if
it's interests from Doug Moron, I feel bad for him.
If it's interests from John Harbaugh, good for him. What's
the team, what's the coach. There's a big difference in
a big gap in this league. But a lot of
this Colin Kaepernick story is about people that don't like change,
(03:50):
and I'm really comfortable with change now. When Kaepernick first
came out, my takeaway was, I don't know if I
like anybody in America, black white man woman taking their
activism to work. I would never bring a picket sign
to Fox Sports or my former employer. So I said,
you know, all these platforms, Nike, can't you take your activism?
(04:12):
But I can certainly be argued out of that point.
I think I think my point's legitimate. Others disagree. But
here's the thing, all you, I'm going to protest, boycott
people on this. You lost on the Kaepernick one. You
just gotta own it. Now, you gotta own it. Like
my dad had a drinking problem, he got over it
(04:35):
for a while because he admitted he had a problem
the boycott Kaepernick crowd. You lost. How do I know
you lost? Because Nike used him and the stock went up.
And according to studies, black Lives Matter is supported by
not only Democrats but conservatives. Yep, I read it this morning.
Two thirds of America support Black Lives Matter. That means
(04:57):
some conservatives, due to the NFL has gone back to Kaepernick,
embracing him, meaning the boycott won't matter, according to a
survey I read yesterday. And I don't know how much
I believe in polls, but they're usually historically accurate. Donald
Trump will be out in November. And oh, by the way,
the boycott crowd with Kaepernick. For the first time ever
(05:19):
in the history of television o H viewers will count.
What's that? Out of home viewers? Every barn American now
on Sunday will count toward our viewers and our ratings.
That's never happened before. People are suggesting the NFL will
get an eight to a fifteen percent bump, So we
even at fifteen to twenty percent of law left, doesn't matter.
(05:42):
Ratings aren't going down. You lost on this. I don't
think you're all bad people. But I think certain people
are just born rigid. They're born traditional, They're born in
the same town. Forty percent of America never leaves their mom.
They stay in the same area code as their mom.
(06:02):
I'm not saying it's bad if you grew up and
your family's got a lot of land, or it's got
a good business and you want to stay around it
and you got a lot of cousins close by. That's
not my life experience, but I think I think it's
very easy for me and it has been, to move
off stuff. I don't consider it necessarily woke. I just
consider it like, here's a better wave, let's jump on it.
Why fight it? But the boycott Kaepernick crowd, According to
(06:24):
this story, Nike proved he's actually pretty good for business,
and the NFL is going to prove this year. No
one player makes us or break us. Peyton Manning retired,
Brett Farve retired, Patrick Mahomes gonna retire tomorrow. I think
Patrick Mahomes gonna ruin the league. It won't be as fun.
I hope he doesn't. Kaepernick was never gonna make the
(06:44):
league and he was never going to break the league.
And I said this the other day. It could have
been this week or last week. I said, I'm boycotting
the boycotting crowd on everything. Everybody's boycotting everything. Now, I'm
a bad boycotter. I boycotted coffee and two days later
I went back to drinking it. I'm a lousy boycotter
because I just like what I like and I'm not
gonna let you ruin my life or politics change my
(07:05):
consumption patterns. I'm not gonna let politics and that TV
host and I always laugh when people say I won't
watch that show. It's got Alec Baldwin on it. He's
a liberal. Into that. I say, every show you watch
on Netflix has been written and directed by liberals. It's Hollywood.
You do get they all live in Hollywood. Just turn
television often than boycott it. But if I have to
(07:27):
lose ten to twelve percent of my audience, you know
what I do. I watch my numbers and my podcast
ratings go up ten to twelve percent a year. Who
younger people who sometimes just happened to be a little
more tolerant. But the boycott crowd on Kaepernick, you gotta
own this. You lost it. Nike up NASCAR ratings Monday.
(07:52):
Confederate Flag's gone up on a Monday three Eastern. It
wasn't even on the day it was scheduled to happen.
NFL ratings, You're gonna go up. Everybody's gonna embrace him.
The League is embracing him. Black Lives Matter supported by
two thirds of Americans. Oh eight tradings up Trump according
to polls out Sometimes you just got to admit. I know,
(08:15):
you want to believe. You wake up in the morning,
you want to believe you're gonna win all your arguments
and all your boycotts and all your debates. You lost
that one, all right. Yesterday Brandon Marshall came on the show,
Great wide receiver, six time pro bowler for the New
York Jets, and we got into some discussion about a
bunch of different topics, and he has great opinions. He's
one of those guys that'll segue pretty easily into broadcasting.
(08:35):
And we started talking about Aaron Rodgers and I was
kind of defending Green Baythy organization and we were talking
Aaron Rodgers and Brandon Marshall said, this it's too late.
Come on, man, they should have won two Super Bowls
in the last five years. You to me, Aaron Rodgers
is my favorite quarterback in the NFL, but you wasted
this guy's career. You got one Super Bowl out of
(08:56):
Aaron Rodgers. Are you kidding me? It's too late, it's late.
Let me say this, it's interesting. If you were to
create the NFL today, there were no teams in no history.
You do realize we would not put a team in
Green Bay. There's one hundred and four thousand people, there's
no owner. But like many businesses in America, it's been
(09:19):
grandfathered in in my childhood, and I count my childhood.
I started watching TV at seven to eight years old
in nineteen seventy two. First game I remember was Wilt
Chamberlain wearing a headband for the Lakers against the Portland Trailblazers.
The other game I remember was the nineteen seventy two
Super Bowl with Yarrow your premium of the Miami Dolphins
beating of the Washington Redskins, like fourteen nothing or fourteen
(09:42):
three or fourteen seven or something like that. I can
name ninety percent of the players in that game, Jim Kick,
Larry Zonka, Bob Graycy Paul Warfield, Charlie Taylor, Billy Kilmer,
I can name them all, Diron, Talbert, Chris Hammerger Pat Fisher,
I can go ours. I know Goolays rolling his eyes
at me. The first time I started watching TV was
about seven to eight years old, and then if you
(10:02):
go the next twelve years, then I'm nineteen years old,
you know, twenty years old. But childhood's over right now,
I'm going to college and stuff. The Green Bay Packers
were atrocious for all those years. They were irrelevant from
like sixty eight to ninety two. They were just junk.
They would we would never put them in the league
today if you started over. But they've been grandfathered in,
(10:25):
and frankly we should look at the Green Bay Packers
and marvel at how good they've been. They're the post
Office of professional sports teams. If the world there was
never been a post office and all the forms of
communication were available today, nobody would choose the post office.
(10:46):
Let's see, I'm gonna write a long letter that takes
me a half hour. Then I'm gonna grab a piece
of paper, lick it, jam the paper in there, put
it in a stamp, either drive it to the post
office or go to the mailbox, wait for seven days
until it lands somewhere. They open it up, and then
they call me on their rotary phone that that's not
The post office doesn't make any sense today. But it's
grandfathered in. It's part of the country, and some people
(11:08):
use it. But it makes no sense. I mean, I
can just put something on my door. Ups comes boom out,
FedEx comes boom out. Post office packers. You would not
even create the post office today. You would not create
the packers today. I don't think Aaron Rodgers has been
underserved or overserved. I think the Green Bay Packers flourishing
(11:31):
is a testament to their fans, is a testament to
the NFL. Is a remarkable American business story. The fact
that a team in a town of one hundred thousand
people with no owner, lousy weather, bad free agent attraction,
players have virtually no privacy if they played there, and
(11:54):
they still get a bunch of good players and a
bunch of Pro Bowls star receivers Brett Farvit, Aaron Rodgers,
and those guys resign there and they stay there and
they want to play there forever, Green Bay's a success story.
If they finish the season. The Post Office is a
success story if four people in America go to it
today and my mom was one of them. I don't
(12:16):
think Aaron Rodgers has been underserved. I just think the
story there is uniquely American. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Easter nine a
Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart
Radio app. I've always thought that Doug Williams, a coach,
goes out and says Dwayne Haskins, second year quarterback Washington.
(12:38):
Last two years, nobody's been drafted with more arm talent.
So this has always been what does arm talent mean?
Jay Cutler had a strong arm, but I always thought
he through a hard ball. It was hard, you know,
he didn't always have good touch. Big Ben has a
huge arm, but I always feel with Cam and big Ben,
(12:59):
big arms so often the receiver has to wait, or
it's behind the receiver. It's never in stride. What does
it mean? I'll give an example. So when I started
out in this business twenty five thirty years ago, in
radio voice mattered. In fact, I was thinking of smoking
Marlborough's and changing my name to Sky Banister and just
(13:21):
high it's I'm sky Banister and my hair is made
of wood. And then I thought, after about ten years,
voice doesn't really matter, And with podcasting it doesn't matter
at all, and with digital it doesn't matter. Voice no
longer matters. Doing radio, are you compelling? Is your content good?
Mark Levin does a radio show. It's a conservative radio show.
He's got an annoying voice, He's got a huge audience.
(13:42):
It doesn't matter anymore. People are into content. They don't
care about voice. But in radio twenty five thirty years ago,
you'd watch game shows and radio show it was ballsy
guys barfing on the mic. And it's the same thing
it used to be. In the NFL. You had a big,
strong arm. But the game has changed. We don't have huddles.
(14:02):
More of the decisions have been made at the line
of scrimmage. The quarterback has more power than ever. The
receivers are more talented. There's more ad libbing going on.
And so when I think of armed talent, I think
of do you throw a catchable ball? Is it in stride?
Do you throw a soft deep ball with a feathery
touch that drops down from the sky like Seattle's soft rain?
(14:27):
Do you throw a ball, so you don't set your
receiver up to get smoked. Now, Mahomes and Carson Wentz
can throw it from different angles, but a lot of
times with Wentz it's behind the receiver. Sometimes Mahomes isn't
even looking at you and take big risks, which can
sometimes get the receiver in trouble if you're now. I
(14:48):
don't like the term arm talent, But if I was
an NFL receiver and you ask me who threw the
softest deep ball, the most catchable ball almost always a
tight spot. I mean, we've all played catch before. If
Joy and I played catch, it's always easier to catch
a spiral than a wobbly football, especially if there's any
(15:08):
elements like rain or a wind, it makes the wobbly throw.
That's why Peyton Manning was very, very good in a dome.
He never threw a beautiful football. I don't want a
hard thrower Kaepernick, Jay Cutler, Big Ben Cam. Sometimes it
doesn't feel it's hard, it's behind the guy. This is
my what I call arm talent. Feathery soft on the
(15:29):
deep ball, receiver gets hit in stride. You don't set
receivers up to get smoked. We make eye contact. You
lead me regularly. Here's my guys when I watch NFL games.
Russell Wilson, I think throws the most catchable deep ball
easily in the NFL. I don't think it's close. Brady
(15:53):
and Breeze almost always hit a guy in perfect stride.
I think Kyler Murray throws the tightest ball in the league,
and I think Goff maybe second in the league in
the deep ball. It is just I mean, honestly, it's
a down comforter. It's a pillow to me. Now this
(16:14):
will go out digitally and I'll get crushed for this
because everybody's what about Mahomes. Mahomes is just the most
talented person in the world playing quarterback. He's got a
big arm, he can throw it sideways. He doesn't look
at you, but at times he can be a little
little radic sometimes the strongest arm in the league. Brett Farr,
(16:35):
big Ben, Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Carson Wentz. That doesn't
always mean it's the easiest ball to catch. And to me,
this whole league is about what's the easiest ball to catch?
Because if you can have all this talent, now you're
gonna say, well, Mahomes did this, and Mahomes did that.
Patrick Mahomes the most talented player. Like if you just said,
(16:56):
if you were drafting a quarterback today and you wanted
all the skill set, but in terms of easiest ball
to catch, that's my five guys. And Matt Ryan was
really close. And I'll get crushed for that. Now I
will say it's about Russell Wilson. I've never seen in
my life a guy throw us a more catchable deep
ball it is. Have you ever noticed this with Russell Wilson.
(17:18):
Nobody ever drops the ball, the deep ball. Nobody ever
drops his deep ball. It is just he's just handing
it to you. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd week days and noun Easter nine Empacific. So
here's a story that you know, there's a reason I
don't speak for this company. We got bosses that do that. Okay,
if somebody wants to speak about this show, probably actually
be the person to speak about the show, right, it's
(17:39):
called The Herd and stuff. But but I always think
with the New York Jets, there are a bunch of
disparate parts and disparate personalities, and they're never kind of
functioning on the same wavelength. So yesterday we all know
this Jamal Adams situations kind of you know, inflamed, right.
So Greg Williams becomes the first team official to comment
on it. What are you doing? It's like, Greg, don't
(18:02):
make yourself available to the press because you know what
the first five questions are. And he wasn't too bad.
He danced around it, but he used the word contract
three different times and he's got to handle his contract.
Don't mess with a guy's contract. I've got his back
on the contract. Okay, this doesn't happen in New England.
First of all, he didn't let his coordinators talk, but
(18:22):
not during a crisis, a flammable crisis. So in New
York you've got Adam Gayes who's polarizing. Greg Williams is
outspoken and can't keep a job for more than three
and four years. Sam Darnold's caught in the middle. Lavy
and Bell has a GM and a coach that will
probably move in a year. You got a great safety
whose outspoken wants a new contract and the GM doesn't
want to give it to him. And it's just like
(18:44):
you got a GM who's cleaning up a previous incompetent
GM's mess And so I said, this morning, Derek Jeter
and Eli Manning were great. They talked every day and
never said anything. There is an art in New York
City to talking and not saying anything. So Greg Williams
should have never made himself available on any conference call,
(19:05):
on any zoom meaning to answer any questions about Jamal Adams.
And so I said this morning, I'm gonna play Greg Williams.
We're gonna do fake. I have no idea what the
questions are. Joy is going to be an annoying New
York Beat reporter, and it's gonna ask me a bunch
of probing questions, and I'm gonna pretend I'm Greg Williams.
Although I would have never made myself available to be
(19:27):
asked questions about Jamal Adams. He's the first guy to
talk about it. Not the coach, not the g I'm
not the owner. So put the press conference. Let's see
if I can avoid I'm gonna be grumpy Greg Williams.
You ask the questions, I'll see if I can avoid it.
Bill New York Times, what are your initial thoughts on
the Jamal Adams situation? The only situation I know is
(19:47):
when he plays, he's great. Mike New York Posts. Should
the Jets give Jamal a huge contract? That's not my department.
There's guys upstairs that do that. They're called lawyers. Sherry
Daily News, Hi, Sherry, Hi, you look a lot like
Joy Taylor. What are you? Yeah? I get that a lot.
What do you make of the reports that Jamal doesn't
(20:09):
get along with Adam Gase? I don't know. I get
along with Jamal Adams. I mean as a basketball player
I played with in ten years, So I get along
with him. I don't know. I mean, do you know
who gets along in every family and every company? I
get along with him. I never heard that, Christopher from
(20:29):
Star Ledger. How would you feel the Jets trade in Jamal.
I'm a defensive coordinator. I don't do contracts. I'm not
a doctor. All I know is when I write my
schemes up, he's everywhere I want him to be. Diana
General News, what's your relationship with Adam Gase? He's my boss.
(20:54):
My relationship is we have meetings on Tuesday and Friday,
and I submit to him my game plan and if
he has a problem with it, he tweaks it. He's
the head coach. I'm a coordinator. That's my relationship. Marcus
from a newsday is Jamal now a distraction from the team?
(21:16):
But how is he a distraction? He's the best football
player perhaps on our conference. How is that a distraction?
It's not that tough. That one more Joy Taylor that
the relationship with Jamal is beyond repair. Beyond repair? What's
(21:37):
the repair? I have an incredible relationship. Every time I
see Jamal Adams, we're smiling. It's not that difficult, stiff.
Just know when you go to a press conference, know
the question that's going to be asked. We have pr
people at my company. Yeah, I don't. I turned down
most I'm not. I don't want to be interviewed at
(21:57):
this point in my career. There's no value in it.
I mean, but if I get interviewed, I always say,
what are the two questions I gotta be prepared for.
It's just like, just tell me what are they going
to ask about? Like, I don't need to know all
the questions, But where do you think they're going on this?
Where's the booby trap with this blogger that wants to
see me get in trouble and it just stop talking
(22:19):
to you, stop using the word contract. I got his back.
This is just really be only one voice for any organization,
especially when it comes to personnel stuff. I want to
go to Eric Mangini, who's been a head coach a
couple of times in his life, and he's been a
coordinator joining us to be at the Coward Global Satellite Network.
He's in like someplace called Cape cod Don't even ask
(22:40):
me how the technology works. I don't even know it works, Okay,
am I am I simplifying it? First of all, if
I'm Greg Williams, I'm not making myself available until this
thing gets talked about. Second of all, am I simplifying
what it's like to stand in front of the media
and answer coordinator and answer questions on a clear only
flammable situation. Well, I look, I felt like I was
(23:04):
watching one of my old press conferences watching you there,
and it doesn't always play well when you answer questions
like that. And New England gets criticized all the time
because they try to protect proprietary information. They try to
make sure that they're not creating distractions, but it's not entertaining,
(23:25):
and there's a lot of people that get frustrated with
the fact that the answers don't just flow out of there,
and it can be a pretty big negative thing and
you just need to deal with the negative press that
goes with that. Now that being said, I don't think
these comments were that bad Colin at all. And one
of the nice things about being a defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator,
(23:47):
position coach is you don't have to be the bad guy.
You don't have to play that role. What you do
have to do is whether Jamal gets a new contract
or doesn't get a new contract, you've got to get
him to play at as high as possible level. And
that's why these guys are going to try to promote
the relationship as much as possible. And as a head coach,
(24:08):
you're fine with that. You're fine with being the bad guy,
or the GM is fine with playing that role. And
the position coaches and the coordinators they have a different
luxury than you have and they need that relationship to
be as strong as possible to maximize the players performance.
All right, So maybe I'm being too critical to Greg
(24:28):
Williams there. Maybe I should have just kept quiet. A
great job on your press counts are really nicely done.
Your hair was disheveled to you. You played the part.
Thanks coach. So it's not just the Tom Brady topic.
I want to talk about free agency. So Tom goes
to Tampa. You have lost players to free agency and
(24:49):
you have gained them as a head coach and a coordinator.
What's the most difficult thing about being a free agency
and going into a new culture. Well, you you hope
to get all the characteristics that that that player demonstrated
in his previous at his previous team. But it doesn't
(25:10):
always happen right away. I remember when we brought Steve
Atwater to the Jets, when I was there with Bill
Parcels and I was working with the secondary and Steve
Atwater is what He's an incredible guy, an incredible presence.
And it's not that he wasn't those things in New York.
He just wasn't the dominant personality that he had been previously.
Because these guys are and to some degree, Alan Fannik
(25:34):
or at the start that the same thing. These guys
are our guys and they want to fit in. They
want to show that they can be part of the organization,
that they can be part of the locker room that
they're involved in. Now, ultimately they're great traits come out.
It just may take a little bit longer than you
as a coach, and you as an organization wants it
(25:54):
to happen because they're trying to fit in as well.
You know, yesterday on our show, Brandon Marshall, very talented
wide receiver, came out and he said, you know, I
think Green Bay has sort of wasted Aaron Rodgers career.
And you know, it was interesting and I thought to myself, well,
he's had five offensive linemen make a Pro Bowl, some
multiple times. Six receivers become Pro Bowlers, so you can't argue.
(26:18):
And he's had two offensive head coaches, so those are
all above league averages for quarterbacks. In the last ten years,
his offensive line has been better than average. He's always
got a star receiver, Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams, you know,
his slot guy, Randall Cobb had a Pro Bowl, Greg Jennings,
Donald Driver. When you and I the comp you know,
it's interesting about I mean, hell, Dan Fouts had a
(26:39):
great coach, so did Dan Marino. They never won Super Bowls.
What do you make about the argument many have made
that Green Bay has wasted Aaron Rodgers talent. Well, then
you could make that argument about a lot of situations.
Has Drew Brees been wasted in New Orleans? Was Peyton
Manning wasted in Indianapolis? And if you're looking at Green Bay,
(27:00):
you could say that they epically wasted quarterbacks because they
had Brett fare before they had Aaron Rodgers and he
only won one super Bowl. This is a really interesting
debate because Belichick and Brady set the bar. So you
have a great quarterback, and if you truly have a
great coach, then six super Bowls is now the bar.
(27:22):
And and all these other situations where it's one super
Bowl or no super Bowls and you've got Hall of
fame talent, as that organization wasted the talent, you have
something that most teams don't don't get close to, and
it's it's it is a very very interesting debate. Yeah, yeah,
(27:42):
we were saying that this morning. Dan Marino had a
Hall of Fame coach, no super bowls. Dan Fouts had
a Hall of Fame coach and incredible weapons and he
didn't have a super Bowl. And I consider two of
those guys two the top twelve quarterbacks I've ever seen
in my life. So it is interesting now you know
as a former coach that you know you can't be
a puritan with NFL. Not everybody may share every value
(28:05):
you have. Talent wins in this league. Antonio Brown can
be disruptive and there's things he's done as a human
I don't like, but good God, for six years he
was Randy Moss Baltimore, Seattle or interested coach. If you
ran the Seahawks or Ravens, would you roll the dice
on him? Antonio Brown, what eighteen months ago, led the
(28:29):
NFL in touchdowns fifteen touchdowns the last time he played,
he was explosive and playing or coaching against him for
years and seeing the things that he's able to do.
He's an incredible talent. And there's three teams that have
significant dead money on their cap because he's an incredible talent. Now,
(28:50):
whether or not you can get him to Sunday is
a big question mark, and whether or not he's going
to be able to play, and the commissioner is going
Lennon Blay that's a big question mark. But all that
being said, if you get him to the field, you've
got something special and there's very few players like him,
so I would imagine Seattle would take that chance, and look,
(29:14):
Pete could make it work. Pete. Pete has made some
players work that other people thought, you know, couldn't. Yeah,
you know. Finally, So we were talking about arm talent,
and I said, when I got in radio twenty five
years ago, people thought you had to have a great voice.
I clearly disproved that. So it's more about content now
and what you say. And I've heard this this talent. No,
(29:36):
I think Patrick Mahomes is the best arm talent. Sideways,
arm angles, all that stuff. Carson Wentz is great. But
I think if you're asking me who throws the most
catchable ball, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff, Drew Brees, Brady Kyler, Murray,
your guys, the ball is just pillowy, soft, perfect. I
(29:57):
think Jared Goffe was one of the best deep balls
I've ever seen for a young quarterback. So let me
ask you, as a coach, is arm strength? Is it touch?
How do you fall on that stuff? Well, I'm a
little bit more in line with you, Colin. I look
at is it a catchall ketch a ball or not
a catchable ball? And I've had plenty of guys with
tremendous arm strength, and what happens is it's like that
(30:19):
old saying, if all you have is a hammer, everything
looks like a nail and they can't put it. They
can't put any touch on the ball. They can't throw
the short swinger out to the back, they can't throw
the shallow cross. It's either behind the guy or in
front of the guy, or bounces off his face mask.
And arm talent is another aspect of it, where you
want him to be able to make all the throws,
(30:41):
But the question is can he can he throw a
ball that is catchable and and does he make the
receivers work for the balls that they have to catch.
There's guys that can can get it out in front
of receivers and let him catch and run. Where there's
a bunch of quarterbacks where it's it's so awkwardly placed
that even when they catch it, they just fall down.
So it's a to me, it's it's more what you're saying,
(31:04):
is it a catchable balls as opposed to arm talent
or armed strength. Yeah, so you're out there in Cape
cod that is Spoil'll tell you that's a ritzy part
of the country now when it's nowhere near the part
of the country you live in college. I live in
a small secluded grotto in a small little town in
Los Angeles. Cape Cod is like the Kennedy's and stuff
(31:27):
I couldn't afford, A like a that's shack in that town,
a bird bath, anything. Okay, get out here, I'll buy
a state. Good seeing you, all right, good seeing you.
Con one more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours
a day, seven days a week within the iHeart Radio app.
Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
(31:51):
Trent delf for fifteen years in the NFL Pro Bowl
and a Super Bowl with the Ravens twenty years ago.
In fact, he is joining us on the phone, the
Super Bowl champ in my muddy true Trent Delfer. So
we've got about nine and a half minutes on this thing.
So I want to get into at Trent. So we've
got into this discussion earlier where Jay Cutler had a
great arm, but I thought he threw a hard ball.
Big Ben's got a great arm, but he often throws
(32:11):
it behind receivers. I know Maholmes is some godlike super
arm talent. I think it's touch as long as you
can make ninety five percent of the throws. What do
you make of the term arm talent? Well, I think
I invented it. To be honest with you, I don't
know if I invented. I started using on TV before
(32:32):
anybody else about twelve years ago because I was really
frustrated with exact conversation. I just left the league. I
was evaluating college guys for ESPN. I was working with
the lead eleven, and I kept getting these conversations, these
archaic conversations with personnel people about arm strength, and I
was like, I don't understand. You know why arm strength?
There is this big differentiator amongst quarterbacks. I just got
(32:55):
done playing. I've studied the best guys. I played against
the best guys, and it was all their arm strength
that differentiated them. It was so many other things about
their talent. And I was sitting with a GM, a
Super Bowl GM or having this conversation. He was challenging
me on what is talent. As an evaluator, you're looking
at a talent talent of an offensive guard, town as
a receiver talent, as a running back talent as an
(33:16):
NBA player, a baseball player, lacrosse players, soccer player. Well,
talent encompasses all the different traits that that athlete has.
And I said, what if we called it armed talent?
And by using the term armed talent, it's saying he
has a lot of different talents within his arm. He
can change the temple on the ball, he can use touch,
(33:36):
he can throw it deep, he can anticipate, he can
change arm angles. And if we start using a term
in evaluation circles of armed talent, then hopefully people are
smart enough to differentiate between strength power right. I love
Mangini's the example of the hammer right, or an encompassing
talent that really shows that, Wow, this guy can do
(34:00):
a lot of things throwing the football. That's what armed
talent was intended to be. It's just been hijacked by
lazy analysts that want to use a fit and stays
saying arm strength. They say armed talent when that was
never the intent. You played in Tampa Bay, and I
love asking people who have played in Tampa Bay. Yesterday
I asked Brandon Marshall about jet stuff because he's played there.
(34:21):
I always thought New England's culture was academic and intense.
I've always thought Tampa's talent was loose, too loose for
my taste, not as urgent, not as intent, and not
as serious. I don't worry about Brady completing passes. I
wonder how his intensity will fit into the more relaxed Tampa.
(34:42):
I mean, you and I were both there into the
more laws affair relaxed culture of Tampa. Do you think
it fits well? I agree with you. That is typically
the Tampa proper mentality. I think two things on this topic. One,
you don't have a choice when Tomba he's your quarterback.
The edge of uncomfortable is where you find greatness. He's
(35:03):
gonna make everybody uncomfortable and because of that, they're going
to find their greatness. There's gonna be growing pains in that,
there's any pushback in that, they're not going to agree
with his ways all the time. But guess what, you
don't have a choice. You gotta jump on and follow
him because he will drag you to a championship. I
do think there's another element, though, and you know this
about Tampa. There's another whole nother part about Tampa, and
(35:25):
that's the East Coast migration there are a lot of
hard edge, high achieving, academic intens people that spend a
lot of time in Tampa, but aren't Buck fans. I
think now they will. They will gravitate to the Buck
new mentality. They will gravitate to Tom Brady and his intensity,
and they'll have a reason to be bucking yours fans
(35:46):
because he relates more to their hard edge mentality from
these coasts. Yeah, you know, yesterday Brandon Marshall said it's
an interesting use of words. He said, the Packers have
wasted Aaron rodgers career into that. I would say winning
super Bowls. There's no rhyme or reason. Dan Marino and
(36:06):
Dan Fountain, Jim Kelly were great with great coaches, they
didn't win it. I mean, who can explain it? You know?
I like Eli. I don't know if he's two super
Bowls great Eli, but he want him. What do you
make of the word Aaron Rodgers' career in Green Bay
has been wasted? I think it's a little strong. I
think you can use not maximized instead of wasted. I
(36:30):
think you have a generational talent. Aaron Rodgers, one of
the top five most talented guys ever played the position
a very good leader to an intense guy, a hard worker,
a tough guy, you know, has all the tangibles, and
they never supported him with one other defining trait with
the team, so they kind of put too much on him.
(36:50):
I would argue the one common nominator in all these multi,
multiple Super Bowl winning quarterbacks is supported by a great
defense or a great defensive coaches coaching mind. Yeah, I
still believe defenses win championships in multiple championships. Yes the
game is changing, Yes you need to invest more on offense,
(37:10):
but not arguing that side of it. But if you
go back down that list that you went through earlier,
the common denominator, there's support. Those quarterbacks were supported by
great defenses or a great defensive mind. People never give
the great forty nine ers teams enough credit for the
defensive football they've played. I grew up in the Bay Area.
Joe Montana's epic. He's amazing, so as Roger Craigs, though,
(37:32):
as Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark, Brent Jones. However, those defenses
were snuff Atkating, and it gave the ball back to Joe.
Terry Bradshaw gave the ball back to Terry, Tom Brady, Belichick,
deefis gave the ball back to Tom Brady. Troy Aikman's
defenses in Dallas gave the ball back to Troy Aikman.
So I would say the big whiff in Green Bay
(37:54):
was they didn't have the foresight to invest a lot
of money into their defense. I think they made some
mad hire some defensive coaching, defensive coordinator coaching positions. They
should have supported air and better with the better defense.
I don't believe in purity in pro sports. It's about talent.
Not everybody's going to have my values. I totally get it.
I just don't want them to be disruptive. But I'd
(38:15):
roll the dice on some people. Antonio Brown, Seahawks Ravens
are mentioned your thoughts. Two of the great culture coaches
in football. Two guys I respect as much as anybody
that create a culture where you can be yourself in
the locker room. Their players love them. They create competitive environments.
(38:36):
You're free to be. Like I said, you're free to
be who you are because of those teams thrive, yere
and and you're out. They can take on some risk
unlike other teams with bad culture. However, I know how
talented Antonio Brown is, I know what a difference to
maker he is. But at the end of the day,
it is not about Willias and jokes. It is about
the holistic development of your organization owner all the way down.
(39:02):
And when you bring in that type of alpha personality,
with that type of baggage, with his other issues, just
with the league alone, I don't even know if Pete
and Don could absorb that type of risk. I don't know.
It's it's really, to be honest with you, it's the
only NFL narrative I'm following right now. I get all
my NFL from you. This is really the narrative that
(39:24):
I'm paying attention to because it's fascinating to me. If
a team is we're willing to take on this type
of risk. If you ran the Jets, would you trade
Jamal Adams or keeping? What would you do? I pay him.
I think he's a fantastic player if he's willing to
stay there with a new contract. I actually like his personality.
(39:45):
I like the edgy grates in the locker room. I
would do everything I could have to keep him. Yeah,
and I think you're probably right. I said the other
day I have a new rule. If I draft you
and you're the best player in the league within two years,
I'll pay you early. Yep. That's kind of my kind
of overpay them because that's the whole game. A guy
(40:08):
like you can overpay a guy like that, uh, and
then have these less impactful negotiation issues with you know,
B plus players, but don't have them with your A
plus players. Good talking to you, have a nice summer.
You're the best man. So yeah,
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is a Friday.
(00:25):
It is a wonderful day. We are now moving seamlessly
into the summer. This is the Herd. Wherever you may be,
however you may be listening. We're on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports
Radio and FS one. Right here. Joy Taylor is joining
me for Pack today. Eric Mangini, Trent Dilfer, Jamal Crawford,
(00:49):
Christen Star, Jason McIntire, A lot of people today on
a Friday, I fairly have to work to a lot
of interesting guests. Goolay is here as well. Joy. How
are you Happy birthday to Shannon Sharp. He's not in
studio today, but it's Shannon's birthday. It is today, Yeah,
it Sunk's birthday. How do you know that? How the
Internet's the Internet? That's it's really bad. That's actually I'm
(01:12):
very bad with birthdays, and the Internet has kept me,
kept me honest with the birthdays. Really like Facebook, It's
very it's crucial. Congratulations on getting older, Shannon Sharp's a
big milestone for all of us. He's one day older.
Bayayay wow hs one fan a lot of people getting
(01:32):
closer to the end. It's great. So um, let me
start with this. If you listen to me for any
length of time, you know I bounced around the country.
I grew up in a non traditional childhood. We didn't
go to church. I'm agnostic. Don't have a problem being
authentic about that. In America today, if you are willing
to sort of evolve or change, you get called woke.
(01:56):
And there are some people I think are a little wokey.
But some of us are more comfortable. Now. I'm not
blaming you if you like comfort. Some of you have
grown up in the same town, You've worked for the
same company, you've been in the same zip code. You
still hang out with your same high school college friends.
There is nothing wrong with that. That is not my
life experience. I have moved for commerce, I've moved for opportunity,
(02:21):
and you know a lot of you would go, oh,
that's sad, and I'm like, I have so many cool
people in my life that I would have never met
had I not lived in Tampa, had I not lived
in Connecticut. I never thought I'd live in rural Connecticut.
It's fantastic. It's a whole new way of life. I
never thought i'd live in Los Angeles, Las Vegas. I
(02:41):
lived in the Pacific Northwest. It's a total gift. But
I'm not saying your experience is any less. But I
don't think it's necessarily any more. I've been given opportunities,
met people, had great relationships formed that I'd never have
stayed in the same hometown. So I am really comfortable
with change, and I'm really comfortable with cultural change because
(03:05):
I've always felt I'm a surfer. Life's a wave. Just
ride the momentum where it's gone. I don't fight the wave.
When I first moved to Manhattan Beach, I go down
with a coffee to the pier and I'd sit there
forty five minutes every Saturday, and I'd watch all these
surfers on the waves, and the better the surfer, though
rarely they jumped into a wave, they waited for the
(03:26):
perfect wave. Why waste your time in a bad wave.
And so I think about this story this morning that
Colin Kaepernick is drawing interest from several teams. Well, if
it's interests from Doug Moron, I feel bad for him.
If it's interests from John Harbaugh, good for him. What's
the team, what's the coach. There's a big difference in
a big gap in this league. But a lot of
this Colin Kaepernick story is about people that don't like change,
(03:50):
and I'm really comfortable with change now. When Kaepernick first
came out, my takeaway was, I don't know if I
like anybody in America, black white man woman taking their
activism to work. I would never bring a picket sign
to Fox Sports or my former employer. So I said,
you know, all these platforms, Nike, can't you take your activism?
(04:12):
But I can certainly be argued out of that point.
I think I think my point's legitimate. Others disagree. But
here's the thing, all you, I'm going to protest, boycott
people on this. You lost on the Kaepernick one. You
just gotta own it. Now, you gotta own it. Like
my dad had a drinking problem, he got over it
(04:35):
for a while because he admitted he had a problem
the boycott Kaepernick crowd. You lost. How do I know
you lost? Because Nike used him and the stock went up.
And according to studies, black Lives Matter is supported by
not only Democrats but conservatives. Yep, I read it this morning.
Two thirds of America support Black Lives Matter. That means
(04:57):
some conservatives, due to the NFL has gone back to Kaepernick,
embracing him, meaning the boycott won't matter, according to a
survey I read yesterday. And I don't know how much
I believe in polls, but they're usually historically accurate. Donald
Trump will be out in November. And oh, by the way,
the boycott crowd with Kaepernick. For the first time ever
(05:19):
in the history of television o H viewers will count.
What's that? Out of home viewers? Every barn American now
on Sunday will count toward our viewers and our ratings.
That's never happened before. People are suggesting the NFL will
get an eight to a fifteen percent bump, So we
even at fifteen to twenty percent of law left, doesn't matter.
(05:42):
Ratings aren't going down. You lost on this. I don't
think you're all bad people. But I think certain people
are just born rigid. They're born traditional, They're born in
the same town. Forty percent of America never leaves their mom.
They stay in the same area code as their mom.
(06:02):
I'm not saying it's bad if you grew up and
your family's got a lot of land, or it's got
a good business and you want to stay around it
and you got a lot of cousins close by. That's
not my life experience, but I think I think it's
very easy for me and it has been, to move
off stuff. I don't consider it necessarily woke. I just
consider it like, here's a better wave, let's jump on it.
Why fight it? But the boycott Kaepernick crowd, According to
(06:24):
this story, Nike proved he's actually pretty good for business,
and the NFL is going to prove this year. No
one player makes us or break us. Peyton Manning retired,
Brett Farve retired, Patrick Mahomes gonna retire tomorrow. I think
Patrick Mahomes gonna ruin the league. It won't be as fun.
I hope he doesn't. Kaepernick was never gonna make the
(06:44):
league and he was never going to break the league.
And I said this the other day. It could have
been this week or last week. I said, I'm boycotting
the boycotting crowd on everything. Everybody's boycotting everything. Now, I'm
a bad boycotter. I boycotted coffee and two days later
I went back to drinking it. I'm a lousy boycotter
because I just like what I like and I'm not
gonna let you ruin my life or politics change my
(07:05):
consumption patterns. I'm not gonna let politics and that TV
host and I always laugh when people say I won't
watch that show. It's got Alec Baldwin on it. He's
a liberal. Into that. I say, every show you watch
on Netflix has been written and directed by liberals. It's Hollywood.
You do get they all live in Hollywood. Just turn
television often than boycott it. But if I have to
(07:27):
lose ten to twelve percent of my audience, you know
what I do. I watch my numbers and my podcast
ratings go up ten to twelve percent a year. Who
younger people who sometimes just happened to be a little
more tolerant. But the boycott crowd on Kaepernick, you gotta
own this. You lost it. Nike up NASCAR ratings Monday.
(07:52):
Confederate Flag's gone up on a Monday three Eastern. It
wasn't even on the day it was scheduled to happen.
NFL ratings, You're gonna go up. Everybody's gonna embrace him.
The League is embracing him. Black Lives Matter supported by
two thirds of Americans. Oh eight tradings up Trump according
to polls out Sometimes you just got to admit. I know,
(08:15):
you want to believe. You wake up in the morning,
you want to believe you're gonna win all your arguments
and all your boycotts and all your debates. You lost
that one, all right. Yesterday Brandon Marshall came on the show,
Great wide receiver, six time pro bowler for the New
York Jets, and we got into some discussion about a
bunch of different topics, and he has great opinions. He's
one of those guys that'll segue pretty easily into broadcasting.
(08:35):
And we started talking about Aaron Rodgers and I was
kind of defending Green Baythy organization and we were talking
Aaron Rodgers and Brandon Marshall said, this it's too late.
Come on, man, they should have won two Super Bowls
in the last five years. You to me, Aaron Rodgers
is my favorite quarterback in the NFL, but you wasted
this guy's career. You got one Super Bowl out of
(08:56):
Aaron Rodgers. Are you kidding me? It's too late, it's late.
Let me say this, it's interesting. If you were to
create the NFL today, there were no teams in no history.
You do realize we would not put a team in
Green Bay. There's one hundred and four thousand people, there's
no owner. But like many businesses in America, it's been
(09:19):
grandfathered in in my childhood, and I count my childhood.
I started watching TV at seven to eight years old
in nineteen seventy two. First game I remember was Wilt
Chamberlain wearing a headband for the Lakers against the Portland Trailblazers.
The other game I remember was the nineteen seventy two
Super Bowl with Yarrow your premium of the Miami Dolphins
beating of the Washington Redskins, like fourteen nothing or fourteen
(09:42):
three or fourteen seven or something like that. I can
name ninety percent of the players in that game, Jim Kick,
Larry Zonka, Bob Graycy Paul Warfield, Charlie Taylor, Billy Kilmer,
I can name them all, Diron, Talbert, Chris Hammerger Pat Fisher,
I can go ours. I know Goolays rolling his eyes
at me. The first time I started watching TV was
about seven to eight years old, and then if you
(10:02):
go the next twelve years, then I'm nineteen years old,
you know, twenty years old. But childhood's over right now,
I'm going to college and stuff. The Green Bay Packers
were atrocious for all those years. They were irrelevant from
like sixty eight to ninety two. They were just junk.
They would we would never put them in the league
today if you started over. But they've been grandfathered in,
(10:25):
and frankly we should look at the Green Bay Packers
and marvel at how good they've been. They're the post
Office of professional sports teams. If the world there was
never been a post office and all the forms of
communication were available today, nobody would choose the post office.
(10:46):
Let's see, I'm gonna write a long letter that takes
me a half hour. Then I'm gonna grab a piece
of paper, lick it, jam the paper in there, put
it in a stamp, either drive it to the post
office or go to the mailbox, wait for seven days
until it lands somewhere. They open it up, and then
they call me on their rotary phone that that's not
The post office doesn't make any sense today. But it's
grandfathered in. It's part of the country, and some people
(11:08):
use it. But it makes no sense. I mean, I
can just put something on my door. Ups comes boom out,
FedEx comes boom out. Post office packers. You would not
even create the post office today. You would not create
the packers today. I don't think Aaron Rodgers has been
underserved or overserved. I think the Green Bay Packers flourishing
(11:31):
is a testament to their fans, is a testament to
the NFL. Is a remarkable American business story. The fact
that a team in a town of one hundred thousand
people with no owner, lousy weather, bad free agent attraction,
players have virtually no privacy if they played there, and
(11:54):
they still get a bunch of good players and a
bunch of Pro Bowls star receivers Brett Farvit, Aaron Rodgers,
and those guys resign there and they stay there and
they want to play there forever, Green Bay's a success story.
If they finish the season. The Post Office is a
success story if four people in America go to it
today and my mom was one of them. I don't
(12:16):
think Aaron Rodgers has been underserved. I just think the
story there is uniquely American. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Easter nine a
Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart
Radio app. I've always thought that Doug Williams, a coach,
goes out and says Dwayne Haskins, second year quarterback Washington.
(12:38):
Last two years, nobody's been drafted with more arm talent.
So this has always been what does arm talent mean?
Jay Cutler had a strong arm, but I always thought
he through a hard ball. It was hard, you know,
he didn't always have good touch. Big Ben has a
huge arm, but I always feel with Cam and big Ben,
(12:59):
big arms so often the receiver has to wait, or
it's behind the receiver. It's never in stride. What does
it mean? I'll give an example. So when I started
out in this business twenty five thirty years ago, in
radio voice mattered. In fact, I was thinking of smoking
Marlborough's and changing my name to Sky Banister and just
(13:21):
high it's I'm sky Banister and my hair is made
of wood. And then I thought, after about ten years,
voice doesn't really matter, And with podcasting it doesn't matter
at all, and with digital it doesn't matter. Voice no
longer matters. Doing radio, are you compelling? Is your content good?
Mark Levin does a radio show. It's a conservative radio show.
He's got an annoying voice, He's got a huge audience.
(13:42):
It doesn't matter anymore. People are into content. They don't
care about voice. But in radio twenty five thirty years ago,
you'd watch game shows and radio show it was ballsy
guys barfing on the mic. And it's the same thing
it used to be. In the NFL. You had a big,
strong arm. But the game has changed. We don't have huddles.
(14:02):
More of the decisions have been made at the line
of scrimmage. The quarterback has more power than ever. The
receivers are more talented. There's more ad libbing going on.
And so when I think of armed talent, I think
of do you throw a catchable ball? Is it in stride?
Do you throw a soft deep ball with a feathery
touch that drops down from the sky like Seattle's soft rain?
(14:27):
Do you throw a ball, so you don't set your
receiver up to get smoked. Now, Mahomes and Carson Wentz
can throw it from different angles, but a lot of
times with Wentz it's behind the receiver. Sometimes Mahomes isn't
even looking at you and take big risks, which can
sometimes get the receiver in trouble if you're now. I
(14:48):
don't like the term arm talent, But if I was
an NFL receiver and you ask me who threw the
softest deep ball, the most catchable ball almost always a
tight spot. I mean, we've all played catch before. If
Joy and I played catch, it's always easier to catch
a spiral than a wobbly football, especially if there's any
(15:08):
elements like rain or a wind, it makes the wobbly throw.
That's why Peyton Manning was very, very good in a dome.
He never threw a beautiful football. I don't want a
hard thrower Kaepernick, Jay Cutler, Big Ben Cam. Sometimes it
doesn't feel it's hard, it's behind the guy. This is
my what I call arm talent. Feathery soft on the
(15:29):
deep ball, receiver gets hit in stride. You don't set
receivers up to get smoked. We make eye contact. You
lead me regularly. Here's my guys when I watch NFL games.
Russell Wilson, I think throws the most catchable deep ball
easily in the NFL. I don't think it's close. Brady
(15:53):
and Breeze almost always hit a guy in perfect stride.
I think Kyler Murray throws the tightest ball in the league,
and I think Goff maybe second in the league in
the deep ball. It is just I mean, honestly, it's
a down comforter. It's a pillow to me. Now this
(16:14):
will go out digitally and I'll get crushed for this
because everybody's what about Mahomes. Mahomes is just the most
talented person in the world playing quarterback. He's got a
big arm, he can throw it sideways. He doesn't look
at you, but at times he can be a little
little radic sometimes the strongest arm in the league. Brett Farr,
(16:35):
big Ben, Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Carson Wentz. That doesn't
always mean it's the easiest ball to catch. And to me,
this whole league is about what's the easiest ball to catch?
Because if you can have all this talent, now you're
gonna say, well, Mahomes did this, and Mahomes did that.
Patrick Mahomes the most talented player. Like if you just said,
(16:56):
if you were drafting a quarterback today and you wanted
all the skill set, but in terms of easiest ball
to catch, that's my five guys. And Matt Ryan was
really close. And I'll get crushed for that. Now I
will say it's about Russell Wilson. I've never seen in
my life a guy throw us a more catchable deep
ball it is. Have you ever noticed this with Russell Wilson.
(17:18):
Nobody ever drops the ball, the deep ball. Nobody ever
drops his deep ball. It is just he's just handing
it to you. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd week days and noun Easter nine Empacific. So
here's a story that you know, there's a reason I
don't speak for this company. We got bosses that do that. Okay,
if somebody wants to speak about this show, probably actually
be the person to speak about the show, right, it's
(17:39):
called The Herd and stuff. But but I always think
with the New York Jets, there are a bunch of
disparate parts and disparate personalities, and they're never kind of
functioning on the same wavelength. So yesterday we all know
this Jamal Adams situations kind of you know, inflamed, right.
So Greg Williams becomes the first team official to comment
on it. What are you doing? It's like, Greg, don't
(18:02):
make yourself available to the press because you know what
the first five questions are. And he wasn't too bad.
He danced around it, but he used the word contract
three different times and he's got to handle his contract.
Don't mess with a guy's contract. I've got his back
on the contract. Okay, this doesn't happen in New England.
First of all, he didn't let his coordinators talk, but
(18:22):
not during a crisis, a flammable crisis. So in New
York you've got Adam Gayes who's polarizing. Greg Williams is
outspoken and can't keep a job for more than three
and four years. Sam Darnold's caught in the middle. Lavy
and Bell has a GM and a coach that will
probably move in a year. You got a great safety
whose outspoken wants a new contract and the GM doesn't
want to give it to him. And it's just like
(18:44):
you got a GM who's cleaning up a previous incompetent
GM's mess And so I said, this morning, Derek Jeter
and Eli Manning were great. They talked every day and
never said anything. There is an art in New York
City to talking and not saying anything. So Greg Williams
should have never made himself available on any conference call,
(19:05):
on any zoom meaning to answer any questions about Jamal Adams.
And so I said this morning, I'm gonna play Greg Williams.
We're gonna do fake. I have no idea what the
questions are. Joy is going to be an annoying New
York Beat reporter, and it's gonna ask me a bunch
of probing questions, and I'm gonna pretend I'm Greg Williams.
Although I would have never made myself available to be
(19:27):
asked questions about Jamal Adams. He's the first guy to
talk about it. Not the coach, not the g I'm
not the owner. So put the press conference. Let's see
if I can avoid I'm gonna be grumpy Greg Williams.
You ask the questions, I'll see if I can avoid it.
Bill New York Times, what are your initial thoughts on
the Jamal Adams situation? The only situation I know is
(19:47):
when he plays, he's great. Mike New York Posts. Should
the Jets give Jamal a huge contract? That's not my department.
There's guys upstairs that do that. They're called lawyers. Sherry
Daily News, Hi, Sherry, Hi, you look a lot like
Joy Taylor. What are you? Yeah? I get that a lot.
What do you make of the reports that Jamal doesn't
(20:09):
get along with Adam Gase? I don't know. I get
along with Jamal Adams. I mean as a basketball player
I played with in ten years, So I get along
with him. I don't know. I mean, do you know
who gets along in every family and every company? I
get along with him. I never heard that, Christopher from
(20:29):
Star Ledger. How would you feel the Jets trade in Jamal.
I'm a defensive coordinator. I don't do contracts. I'm not
a doctor. All I know is when I write my
schemes up, he's everywhere I want him to be. Diana
General News, what's your relationship with Adam Gase? He's my boss.
(20:54):
My relationship is we have meetings on Tuesday and Friday,
and I submit to him my game plan and if
he has a problem with it, he tweaks it. He's
the head coach. I'm a coordinator. That's my relationship. Marcus
from a newsday is Jamal now a distraction from the team?
(21:16):
But how is he a distraction? He's the best football
player perhaps on our conference. How is that a distraction?
It's not that tough. That one more Joy Taylor that
the relationship with Jamal is beyond repair. Beyond repair? What's
(21:37):
the repair? I have an incredible relationship. Every time I
see Jamal Adams, we're smiling. It's not that difficult, stiff.
Just know when you go to a press conference, know
the question that's going to be asked. We have pr
people at my company. Yeah, I don't. I turned down
most I'm not. I don't want to be interviewed at
(21:57):
this point in my career. There's no value in it.
I mean, but if I get interviewed, I always say,
what are the two questions I gotta be prepared for.
It's just like, just tell me what are they going
to ask about? Like, I don't need to know all
the questions, But where do you think they're going on this?
Where's the booby trap with this blogger that wants to
see me get in trouble and it just stop talking
(22:19):
to you, stop using the word contract. I got his back.
This is just really be only one voice for any organization,
especially when it comes to personnel stuff. I want to
go to Eric Mangini, who's been a head coach a
couple of times in his life, and he's been a
coordinator joining us to be at the Coward Global Satellite Network.
He's in like someplace called Cape cod Don't even ask
(22:40):
me how the technology works. I don't even know it works, Okay,
am I am I simplifying it? First of all, if
I'm Greg Williams, I'm not making myself available until this
thing gets talked about. Second of all, am I simplifying
what it's like to stand in front of the media
and answer coordinator and answer questions on a clear only
flammable situation. Well, I look, I felt like I was
(23:04):
watching one of my old press conferences watching you there,
and it doesn't always play well when you answer questions
like that. And New England gets criticized all the time
because they try to protect proprietary information. They try to
make sure that they're not creating distractions, but it's not entertaining,
(23:25):
and there's a lot of people that get frustrated with
the fact that the answers don't just flow out of there,
and it can be a pretty big negative thing and
you just need to deal with the negative press that
goes with that. Now that being said, I don't think
these comments were that bad Colin at all. And one
of the nice things about being a defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator,
(23:47):
position coach is you don't have to be the bad guy.
You don't have to play that role. What you do
have to do is whether Jamal gets a new contract
or doesn't get a new contract, you've got to get
him to play at as high as possible level. And
that's why these guys are going to try to promote
the relationship as much as possible. And as a head coach,
(24:08):
you're fine with that. You're fine with being the bad guy,
or the GM is fine with playing that role. And
the position coaches and the coordinators they have a different
luxury than you have and they need that relationship to
be as strong as possible to maximize the players performance.
All right, So maybe I'm being too critical to Greg
(24:28):
Williams there. Maybe I should have just kept quiet. A
great job on your press counts are really nicely done.
Your hair was disheveled to you. You played the part.
Thanks coach. So it's not just the Tom Brady topic.
I want to talk about free agency. So Tom goes
to Tampa. You have lost players to free agency and
(24:49):
you have gained them as a head coach and a coordinator.
What's the most difficult thing about being a free agency
and going into a new culture. Well, you you hope
to get all the characteristics that that that player demonstrated
in his previous at his previous team. But it doesn't
(25:10):
always happen right away. I remember when we brought Steve
Atwater to the Jets, when I was there with Bill
Parcels and I was working with the secondary and Steve
Atwater is what He's an incredible guy, an incredible presence.
And it's not that he wasn't those things in New York.
He just wasn't the dominant personality that he had been previously.
Because these guys are and to some degree, Alan Fannik
(25:34):
or at the start that the same thing. These guys
are our guys and they want to fit in. They
want to show that they can be part of the organization,
that they can be part of the locker room that
they're involved in. Now, ultimately they're great traits come out.
It just may take a little bit longer than you
as a coach, and you as an organization wants it
(25:54):
to happen because they're trying to fit in as well.
You know, yesterday on our show, Brandon Marshall, very talented
wide receiver, came out and he said, you know, I
think Green Bay has sort of wasted Aaron Rodgers career.
And you know, it was interesting and I thought to myself, well,
he's had five offensive linemen make a Pro Bowl, some
multiple times. Six receivers become Pro Bowlers, so you can't argue.
(26:18):
And he's had two offensive head coaches, so those are
all above league averages for quarterbacks. In the last ten years,
his offensive line has been better than average. He's always
got a star receiver, Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams, you know,
his slot guy, Randall Cobb had a Pro Bowl, Greg Jennings,
Donald Driver. When you and I the comp you know,
it's interesting about I mean, hell, Dan Fouts had a
(26:39):
great coach, so did Dan Marino. They never won Super Bowls.
What do you make about the argument many have made
that Green Bay has wasted Aaron Rodgers talent. Well, then
you could make that argument about a lot of situations.
Has Drew Brees been wasted in New Orleans? Was Peyton
Manning wasted in Indianapolis? And if you're looking at Green Bay,
(27:00):
you could say that they epically wasted quarterbacks because they
had Brett fare before they had Aaron Rodgers and he
only won one super Bowl. This is a really interesting
debate because Belichick and Brady set the bar. So you
have a great quarterback, and if you truly have a
great coach, then six super Bowls is now the bar.
(27:22):
And and all these other situations where it's one super
Bowl or no super Bowls and you've got Hall of
fame talent, as that organization wasted the talent, you have
something that most teams don't don't get close to, and
it's it's it is a very very interesting debate. Yeah, yeah,
(27:42):
we were saying that this morning. Dan Marino had a
Hall of Fame coach, no super bowls. Dan Fouts had
a Hall of Fame coach and incredible weapons and he
didn't have a super Bowl. And I consider two of
those guys two the top twelve quarterbacks I've ever seen
in my life. So it is interesting now you know
as a former coach that you know you can't be
a puritan with NFL. Not everybody may share every value
(28:05):
you have. Talent wins in this league. Antonio Brown can
be disruptive and there's things he's done as a human
I don't like, but good God, for six years he
was Randy Moss Baltimore, Seattle or interested coach. If you
ran the Seahawks or Ravens, would you roll the dice
on him? Antonio Brown, what eighteen months ago, led the
(28:29):
NFL in touchdowns fifteen touchdowns the last time he played,
he was explosive and playing or coaching against him for
years and seeing the things that he's able to do.
He's an incredible talent. And there's three teams that have
significant dead money on their cap because he's an incredible talent. Now,
(28:50):
whether or not you can get him to Sunday is
a big question mark, and whether or not he's going
to be able to play, and the commissioner is going
Lennon Blay that's a big question mark. But all that
being said, if you get him to the field, you've
got something special and there's very few players like him,
so I would imagine Seattle would take that chance, and look,
(29:14):
Pete could make it work. Pete. Pete has made some
players work that other people thought, you know, couldn't. Yeah,
you know. Finally, So we were talking about arm talent,
and I said, when I got in radio twenty five
years ago, people thought you had to have a great voice.
I clearly disproved that. So it's more about content now
and what you say. And I've heard this this talent. No,
(29:36):
I think Patrick Mahomes is the best arm talent. Sideways,
arm angles, all that stuff. Carson Wentz is great. But
I think if you're asking me who throws the most
catchable ball, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff, Drew Brees, Brady Kyler, Murray,
your guys, the ball is just pillowy, soft, perfect. I
(29:57):
think Jared Goffe was one of the best deep balls
I've ever seen for a young quarterback. So let me
ask you, as a coach, is arm strength? Is it touch?
How do you fall on that stuff? Well, I'm a
little bit more in line with you, Colin. I look
at is it a catchall ketch a ball or not
a catchable ball? And I've had plenty of guys with
tremendous arm strength, and what happens is it's like that
(30:19):
old saying, if all you have is a hammer, everything
looks like a nail and they can't put it. They
can't put any touch on the ball. They can't throw
the short swinger out to the back, they can't throw
the shallow cross. It's either behind the guy or in
front of the guy, or bounces off his face mask.
And arm talent is another aspect of it, where you
want him to be able to make all the throws,
(30:41):
But the question is can he can he throw a
ball that is catchable and and does he make the
receivers work for the balls that they have to catch.
There's guys that can can get it out in front
of receivers and let him catch and run. Where there's
a bunch of quarterbacks where it's it's so awkwardly placed
that even when they catch it, they just fall down.
So it's a to me, it's it's more what you're saying,
(31:04):
is it a catchable balls as opposed to arm talent
or armed strength. Yeah, so you're out there in Cape
cod that is Spoil'll tell you that's a ritzy part
of the country now when it's nowhere near the part
of the country you live in college. I live in
a small secluded grotto in a small little town in
Los Angeles. Cape Cod is like the Kennedy's and stuff
(31:27):
I couldn't afford, A like a that's shack in that town,
a bird bath, anything. Okay, get out here, I'll buy
a state. Good seeing you, all right, good seeing you.
Con one more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours
a day, seven days a week within the iHeart Radio app.
Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
(31:51):
Trent delf for fifteen years in the NFL Pro Bowl
and a Super Bowl with the Ravens twenty years ago.
In fact, he is joining us on the phone, the
Super Bowl champ in my muddy true Trent Delfer. So
we've got about nine and a half minutes on this thing.
So I want to get into at Trent. So we've
got into this discussion earlier where Jay Cutler had a
great arm, but I thought he threw a hard ball.
Big Ben's got a great arm, but he often throws
(32:11):
it behind receivers. I know Maholmes is some godlike super
arm talent. I think it's touch as long as you
can make ninety five percent of the throws. What do
you make of the term arm talent? Well, I think
I invented it. To be honest with you, I don't
know if I invented. I started using on TV before
(32:32):
anybody else about twelve years ago because I was really
frustrated with exact conversation. I just left the league. I
was evaluating college guys for ESPN. I was working with
the lead eleven, and I kept getting these conversations, these
archaic conversations with personnel people about arm strength, and I
was like, I don't understand. You know why arm strength?
There is this big differentiator amongst quarterbacks. I just got
(32:55):
done playing. I've studied the best guys. I played against
the best guys, and it was all their arm strength
that differentiated them. It was so many other things about
their talent. And I was sitting with a GM, a
Super Bowl GM or having this conversation. He was challenging
me on what is talent. As an evaluator, you're looking
at a talent talent of an offensive guard, town as
a receiver talent, as a running back talent as an
(33:16):
NBA player, a baseball player, lacrosse players, soccer player. Well,
talent encompasses all the different traits that that athlete has.
And I said, what if we called it armed talent?
And by using the term armed talent, it's saying he
has a lot of different talents within his arm. He
can change the temple on the ball, he can use touch,
(33:36):
he can throw it deep, he can anticipate, he can
change arm angles. And if we start using a term
in evaluation circles of armed talent, then hopefully people are
smart enough to differentiate between strength power right. I love
Mangini's the example of the hammer right, or an encompassing
talent that really shows that, Wow, this guy can do
(34:00):
a lot of things throwing the football. That's what armed
talent was intended to be. It's just been hijacked by
lazy analysts that want to use a fit and stays
saying arm strength. They say armed talent when that was
never the intent. You played in Tampa Bay, and I
love asking people who have played in Tampa Bay. Yesterday
I asked Brandon Marshall about jet stuff because he's played there.
(34:21):
I always thought New England's culture was academic and intense.
I've always thought Tampa's talent was loose, too loose for
my taste, not as urgent, not as intent, and not
as serious. I don't worry about Brady completing passes. I
wonder how his intensity will fit into the more relaxed Tampa.
(34:42):
I mean, you and I were both there into the
more laws affair relaxed culture of Tampa. Do you think
it fits well? I agree with you. That is typically
the Tampa proper mentality. I think two things on this topic. One,
you don't have a choice when Tomba he's your quarterback.
The edge of uncomfortable is where you find greatness. He's
(35:03):
gonna make everybody uncomfortable and because of that, they're going
to find their greatness. There's gonna be growing pains in that,
there's any pushback in that, they're not going to agree
with his ways all the time. But guess what, you
don't have a choice. You gotta jump on and follow
him because he will drag you to a championship. I
do think there's another element, though, and you know this
about Tampa. There's another whole nother part about Tampa, and
(35:25):
that's the East Coast migration there are a lot of
hard edge, high achieving, academic intens people that spend a
lot of time in Tampa, but aren't Buck fans. I
think now they will. They will gravitate to the Buck
new mentality. They will gravitate to Tom Brady and his intensity,
and they'll have a reason to be bucking yours fans
(35:46):
because he relates more to their hard edge mentality from
these coasts. Yeah, you know, yesterday Brandon Marshall said it's
an interesting use of words. He said, the Packers have
wasted Aaron rodgers career into that. I would say winning
super Bowls. There's no rhyme or reason. Dan Marino and
(36:06):
Dan Fountain, Jim Kelly were great with great coaches, they
didn't win it. I mean, who can explain it? You know?
I like Eli. I don't know if he's two super
Bowls great Eli, but he want him. What do you
make of the word Aaron Rodgers' career in Green Bay
has been wasted? I think it's a little strong. I
think you can use not maximized instead of wasted. I
(36:30):
think you have a generational talent. Aaron Rodgers, one of
the top five most talented guys ever played the position
a very good leader to an intense guy, a hard worker,
a tough guy, you know, has all the tangibles, and
they never supported him with one other defining trait with
the team, so they kind of put too much on him.
(36:50):
I would argue the one common nominator in all these multi,
multiple Super Bowl winning quarterbacks is supported by a great
defense or a great defensive coaches coaching mind. Yeah, I
still believe defenses win championships in multiple championships. Yes the
game is changing, Yes you need to invest more on offense,
(37:10):
but not arguing that side of it. But if you
go back down that list that you went through earlier,
the common denominator, there's support. Those quarterbacks were supported by
great defenses or a great defensive mind. People never give
the great forty nine ers teams enough credit for the
defensive football they've played. I grew up in the Bay Area.
Joe Montana's epic. He's amazing, so as Roger Craigs, though,
(37:32):
as Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark, Brent Jones. However, those defenses
were snuff Atkating, and it gave the ball back to Joe.
Terry Bradshaw gave the ball back to Terry, Tom Brady, Belichick,
deefis gave the ball back to Tom Brady. Troy Aikman's
defenses in Dallas gave the ball back to Troy Aikman.
So I would say the big whiff in Green Bay
(37:54):
was they didn't have the foresight to invest a lot
of money into their defense. I think they made some
mad hire some defensive coaching, defensive coordinator coaching positions. They
should have supported air and better with the better defense.
I don't believe in purity in pro sports. It's about talent.
Not everybody's going to have my values. I totally get it.
I just don't want them to be disruptive. But I'd
(38:15):
roll the dice on some people. Antonio Brown, Seahawks Ravens
are mentioned your thoughts. Two of the great culture coaches
in football. Two guys I respect as much as anybody
that create a culture where you can be yourself in
the locker room. Their players love them. They create competitive environments.
(38:36):
You're free to be. Like I said, you're free to
be who you are because of those teams thrive, yere
and and you're out. They can take on some risk
unlike other teams with bad culture. However, I know how
talented Antonio Brown is, I know what a difference to
maker he is. But at the end of the day,
it is not about Willias and jokes. It is about
the holistic development of your organization owner all the way down.
(39:02):
And when you bring in that type of alpha personality,
with that type of baggage, with his other issues, just
with the league alone, I don't even know if Pete
and Don could absorb that type of risk. I don't know.
It's it's really, to be honest with you, it's the
only NFL narrative I'm following right now. I get all
my NFL from you. This is really the narrative that
(39:24):
I'm paying attention to because it's fascinating to me. If
a team is we're willing to take on this type
of risk. If you ran the Jets, would you trade
Jamal Adams or keeping? What would you do? I pay him.
I think he's a fantastic player if he's willing to
stay there with a new contract. I actually like his personality.
(39:45):
I like the edgy grates in the locker room. I
would do everything I could have to keep him. Yeah,
and I think you're probably right. I said the other
day I have a new rule. If I draft you
and you're the best player in the league within two years,
I'll pay you early. Yep. That's kind of my kind
of overpay them because that's the whole game. A guy
(40:08):
like you can overpay a guy like that, uh, and
then have these less impactful negotiation issues with you know,
B plus players, but don't have them with your A
plus players. Good talking to you, have a nice summer.
You're the best man. So yeah,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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