October 13, 2020 • 38 mins
-Justin Herbert is a star but will the Chargers screw things up with him?
-Matt Ryan can no longer elevate a franchise
-Stop making excuses for Drew Brees
-Russell Wilson is the MVP, not Aaron Rodgers
-The Cowboys need a rebuild but won't admit it
-The Herd Hierarchy, Colin's top ten teams in the NFL
Guest: Brian Westbrook, former All-Pro RB
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
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is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhern on
Fox Sports Radio. Oh it is a loaded jam pack
(00:25):
Tuesday live in Los Angeles. This is the Herd. Wherever
you may be and however you may be listening, run
Fox Sports Radio and right here on FS one one
hour from now. The Herd hierarchy rich, packed with flavor
ten playoff teams. What do I do with Brady in
(00:47):
the Bucks? They looked awful against Chicago? What do I
do with Seattle worst defense of all time? Statistically? Joy
Taylor is joining me. It appears Joy. We talk about
this all the time. All the quarterbacks are getting better.
We appear to have another new star at quarterback. Didn't
see it coming, but he has arrived. He is really good, folks.
(01:09):
I don't want to hear about Michael Thomas. Wasn't there
for Drew Brees? Stop Okay, Justin Herbert's a rookie. Okay,
he didn't have his starting right tackle, his starting right guard,
his starting running back, and his best receiver Keenan Allen
got hurt end of the first quarter, and he went
on the road against Drew Brees and was a better
quarterback and it wasn't close. Passer rating the kid without
(01:30):
two of his offensive linemen, and the Saints have one
of the best pass rushes in the NFL one hundred
and twenty three passer rating, four touchdowns, no picks. You
can do so much more with Justin Herbert than you
can do with Drew Brees. They moved the pocket out.
He's got a rocket arm. You can throw it deep short,
It doesn't matter. The question now is will the Chargers
(01:51):
screw it up? That's the question now, because where are
you Land matters in the NFL. Sam Darnold punct shirt
by his team, Josh Allen. You'll watch the night elevated
by his look. How long it has taken Baker Mayfield
to finally get a grown up as a head coach. Oh,
Baker looks pretty good. Where are you Land? Manners? And
(02:13):
the Chargers have a good GM and a lot of talent,
but what a shock last night. The coaching wasn't good
and the special teams lost the game. This kid has
led in the last three four weeks. He's led Mahomes,
He's led Breathe, He's led Brady in the fourth quarter.
And they can't make a kick or they co conservative
with play calling. This kid's a rock star. But this
(02:35):
organization historically has gone cheap? Is Anthony Lynn the coach? Well,
let's look at his own division. In order to win
this division, Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes can Anthony Lynn outdue them?
Forget Belichick and the AFC, Forget John Harbon the FC,
Forget Mike Tomlin, forget Sean McDermott, forget Mike frabel. Is
he as good as daring as John Gruden is He's
(02:58):
schematically clever like Andy. All I know is this justin
Herbert is Wow. The only two quarterbacks in the league
that have this talent, this size, this arm, this escapability.
The two of them are Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen.
And Patrick Mahomes got a year to sit behind Alex Smith.
(03:18):
Josh Allen was awful his first year and a half
in the league. This kid is great. Now, will the
Charger screw it up? Is Anthony Lynn right? Is Anthony
Lynn good enough? He wasn't last night? And if they
decide he's not. Will Dean Spanos to the owner go
out and pay ten million dollars for Lincoln Riley or
ten million dollars for Urban Meyer, not some retread coach
(03:41):
like the Cowboys did. Will you go out and spend
big boy money to get it John Harball to go
get a rock star head coach, because we know in
this league, if you give Lamar Jackson John Harball, we
know how it turns out really good. And if you
give Josh Allen a Sean McDermott excellent young coach, we
know how it turns out. You'll watch the night really good.
(04:04):
We know that if Mike Rabel gets his hands on
Ryan Tannehill, what happens? Average quarterback then better than average.
Because I'm watching Justin I have questions about this staff.
They watched all these practices, they watched all this game tape,
and it wasn't until last week the Chargers went, yeah,
we think Justin Herbert's better. What are you watching? I mean,
(04:26):
there are things in life that are subtle and nuanced.
Justin Herbert has a massive arm is huge. This kid.
Everybody nip picked him at Oregon. So I watched a
lot of Oregon football games because I used to work
in Portland. So they have an offensive line coach as
a head coach, very conservative, and they don't have great
weapons like Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU. It's Oregon. They
(04:46):
don't have five star wide receivers, right, and so Justin Herbert.
It was a very conservative offense and at the end
of the year Joy was here. They decided at the
end of the year in the Rose Bowl, we got
no games left for Justin Herbert. Go for it. And
did you watch him against Wisconsin. Wisconsin at a great defense,
they couldn't stop Justin Herbert. It doesn't take much to
this kid was a Dean's List student in college and
(05:08):
he majored in biology. It wasn't like a lot of
athletes who you know, you find the major that kind
of works for your ability to not like, you know,
go to practice and stuff. He majored in biology. He
was a Dean's Lister. We've had people of this network
who have covered Oregon interviewed him. They're like, oh, kid,
blows you away the wisdom for like a twenty one
year old kid. But I wonder about this. Can the
(05:29):
Chargers elevate him? Because last night, I mean when they
joint that field goal, you were all watching that game
saying the same thing, Cots and Chargers. When they went
conservative with their play calling, you were all saying the
same things Chargers. So the pressure is not on Justin Herbert.
That that it's been. It's been. He's played four games.
(05:50):
First game again, five minute heads up, you're playing against
Patrick Mahomes. I don't know, a little intimidating. Can you
imagine five minutes you're fighting Mike Tyson. Five minutes you
have to face messy five minutes Patrick Mahomes a little nervous.
He outplayed him for the first half of that game.
He outplayed Tom Brady first half of that game. He
(06:11):
outplayed Drew Brees last night. Are the Chargers good at
the pressures? Not on Herbert. It's on the organization because
the organization has a history of being cheap, screwing up
special teams and in and they got players. Don't don't
kill yourself. It's not what was me. Justin Herbert's got
real receivers. I mean, this is a real football team
with real players. But four games the first one a touchdown,
(06:34):
a pick, second one to touchdown, a pick, third one,
three touchdowns a pick. Last night, four touchdowns, no picks.
Cameron Heyward of the Saints, great player on a great
defensive line, said, oh watch out this kid special. He's
a baller. Um, young kids out there taking a lot
of hits today. I think our d line our I
think our front seven got after him pretty well. Um.
(06:56):
You know, he made a lot of a lot of
great plays down the stretch. And that's something you know
that he may be a force to be reckoned with
for the years to come. He's showing he' showing some
some huge potential. Cameron Jordan, my bad. All right, let's
shift to this yesterday I said something to Joy during
the show and it wasn't. I didn't wasn't trying to
be a hot take. But I watched Matt Ryan this weekend,
(07:16):
and I'm watching the NFL in twenty twenty, and I'm like,
Atlanta fired everybody, they fired their GM, they fired the coach,
and I'm like, i think I'd move off Matt Ryan
in one year. Cap space you got, you gotta keep
in this year next year. But if I could draft
the Trevor Lawrence, if Atlanta keeps losing, if I could
draft the Justin Fields, I draft him very interesting. The
(07:38):
owner of the Atlanta Falcons, Arthur Blank, said, we're not
quite sure what we're gonna do at the quarterback situation
with Matt Ryan. Matt is has the ability to play
at the our high level, even at this age. Whether
that's going to continue or not, I'm not sure. I
appreciate his willingness to consider doing that and the level
(08:01):
of what he's played for for us for thirteen years,
which has been incredible, So I will have to say,
But then again, that's going to be a decision at
the end of the day. That'll be part of We'd
be up to the player and would be up to
the coaching staff and whether or not, you know, Matt
can keep himself together, and I hope he's going to
be part of our plans going forward, but that would
be decision that I won't make. Not exactly a vote
(08:22):
of confidence. Matt Ryan's not bad. We all know that
Matt Ryan's not special and dynamic. We all know that
he's Kirk Cousins with an MVP, would you move off
Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins gets talked about a lot because
kirk Cousin wins and got that initial big contract. But
(08:42):
kirk Cousins is actually more mobile than Matt Ryan. You
can roll the pocket out with him. Kirk Cousins actually
thought a better deep ball than Matt Ryan. What do
you do with Matt Ryan? I watched Matt Ryan this
past weekend. When everything's set up for success, it can
be nice. It's sort of like, you know, like marriages.
(09:04):
Everybody gets along in the honeymoon, the kids are at
camp for the summer, no win, laws around, and the
money's rolling in. But how's the marriage when the money's tight,
in laws are in town, kids are melting down. That's
a real marriage. That's what all of us go through.
Matt Ryan is great when everything's set up for him,
(09:27):
but it's twenty twenty. Nothing's set up for anybody. Justin Herbert,
Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. Those guys make plays
when the world isn't perfect. Matt Ryan plays in a dome.
There is no win. He plays in a warm weather division.
If he played in Pittsburgh, you'd see even more issues.
(09:49):
He has largely protected. Julio Jones plays in a dome.
But this is the real question your marriage. It's tested
when the kids melt down, not when they're away at camp.
And in twenty twenty, what's your quarterback like when you're
missing a left tackle, your top running back is out,
(10:13):
your number two receivers out, and your back is killing
you because he got sacked five times the previous week.
And that's for Matt ryan territory. He can't elevate. I'm
watching the NFL right now, and there was about seven
teams that I would say would not draft Trevor Lawrence,
about seven everybody else. That kid at Clemson, I'd take him,
(10:38):
sit him for a year in Atlanta and move on.
If you want to be special, you got to have
a special quarterback. Matt Ryan is special when everything is
set up to succeed. As you watch the NFL going forward,
when is everything perfectly set up to succeed? The answer
almost never. Be sure to catch live edition The Herd
(11:00):
weekdayson noun Easter ninety Empacific. This excuse I am tired of. Officially,
I'm getting you know what I mean, I don't like
excuses to begin with. I tell my kids this all
the time. I don't want to hear Victim hud got
a good life. Granted countertops, We're all good here. I
don't want excuses. I don't want to hear Michael Thomas
is not available for Drew Brees and that's the problem.
(11:21):
That ain't the problem. Michael Thomas is worth one point
in Vegas. That's what he's worth. NFL scoring has never
been higher. I saw stat this morning. Last year there
were like twenty five games where they scored over you know,
like combined fifty points or something. We're already at like
twenty two. Michael Thomas is worth a point. Okay, there's
(11:43):
four old quarterbacks in the NFL. Let's be honest too,
complaint too. Can't Philip Rivers and Breeze right now? Can't
win big with him? Big Ben and Tom Brady. I
think you can, but Breeze needs to outsmart you, and
he's great at it. But Sean Payton is one of
the smartest offensive code of my lifetime. In the NFL.
He's on a short list. When he wants athleticism or
(12:05):
a deep ball, he brings in Taysom Hill, and everybody's
complaining last night on Twitter about Taysom Hill. The Saints
offense doesn't need Taysom Hill. Hell, it doesn't. Their first
six possessions last night against the Chargers, who are a
beat up mess. Defensively, you got no Derwin, James Brandon,
Ingram's out, Bosa's limited. Their defense is a wreck right now.
(12:26):
They're all banged up. The first six possessions Drew Brees
led punt, punt, field goal, punt, interception, punt in the
field goal was an eighteen yard drive and they're only
touchdown of the first half. They basically got it at midfield.
You're not smarter than Sean Payton. Sean Payton's Washington practice.
Sean Payton's like, we gotta throw it deep, we gotta
bring in the other guy. We need an athlete. We're
got to bring him the other guy. And I love
(12:48):
Drew Brees, a first ballot Hall of Famer, but at
some point I'll be on the air and I'll be
I'll have no more teeth left, and I'll be hacking
and weazon and You'll be like, it's over for Colin.
You can't win with Colin, right now still got a shot,
Still got a shot with me. But you know this
is not about Michael Thomas. This is a pop gun offense.
I mean the offense is Alvin Kamara, little dump pass,
(13:10):
make it work. It's not a knock on anybody. This
is an elite defensive line, a very good offensive line.
Kamaras a stud. But but there's four old quarterbacks in
this league, and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Your eyes
aren't They're not fooling you. Okay, what you're seeing is
Justin Herbert. You can do a lot more with Justin Herbert.
You're gonna watch Josh Allen tonight. You can roll the pocket,
(13:31):
you can throw deep intermediate. I mean, Josh Allen and
Justin Herbert are the kind of guys. Justin Herbert was
getting the crap knocked out of him last night. I
mean he was thrown off, he was thrown off balance,
he was throwing while getting hit. He's got two offensive
lineman out, he doesn't have his best running back, Keenan.
Allen gets hurt and there and they are a field
goal away from beating Drew Brees. So I want to
(13:51):
hear about Michael Thomas. Great player, he's worth a point. Okay,
you got two offensive linemen out for the Chargers. We
all know what quarterbacks need. Good coach, good offensive line.
That's just as valuable. One more Herd. The Herd streams
twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within
the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on
(14:12):
demand whenever you like. So I saw some. It's unfortunate.
The media has never been worse, and I'm seeing these
Aaron Rodgers should be the MVP stories in the last
couple of weeks, and it's like, stop, let's stop. Let
me give you some perspective on this. There's no story here.
Russell Wilson is five and zero. This Seattle defense this
(14:38):
morning is statistically the worst in league history, in league history.
Here's the worst four defenses for our radio audience. Seattle's won.
They're five and zero, including a win over Belichick and
cam Atlanta's is now the second worst. They just fired
their GM and their coach because of it. Drew Brees
twenty twelve Saints third worst defense. They were seven to nine.
(15:00):
Remember they had the best offense in the league. Drew
Brees couldn't get a winning record with the best offense
in the league when he had a bad defense and
the eighty one Colts were awful. You cannot win in
this league with a historically awful defense. So let's start
with that. Aaron Rodgers much better defense. Here's the other thing.
(15:23):
I mean, Russell has scored thirty five against Belichick, thirty
one against Brian Flores, and twenty seven against Mike Zimber
this weekend in a driving rainstorm. Three to good defensive coaches.
But ask yourself this, offensive lines do they matter? Do
you know the number one rated offensive line in the
NFL this morning? PF green Bay. Green Bay also has
(15:45):
a top five running back in the league Aaron Jones,
a top five wide receiver, maybe a top two wide
receiver in Davante Adams. Green Bay also has an offensive
coach that obviously helps. I mean, you don't think Jared
Goff had a defensive coach in an offensive coach kind
of a difference. The only advantage Russell Wilson has over
Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson's number two wide receiver, Tyler Lockett,
(16:09):
is better than Aaron Rodgers number two wide receiver. Most
valuable is the ability that this is what Lebron just
did to take a lot of disparate parts or average
parts and elevate all of them. You could know Aaron
Rodgers is number two in the voting, like Burger King
is number two to McDonald's. But it's not close. Okay,
(16:31):
it's it's not close. Aaron Rodgers could not take this
offensive line and this defense and be five and oh.
Aaron's in a easier division with a better defense and
offensive coach, the best offensive line in the league, a
better number one receiver, and a better number one running back.
It ain't close. Seattle's five and oh worst defense in
(16:52):
league history so far, and they haven't even faced you know,
they haven't even faced some of the more dynamic offenses.
Bill face all right. Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys,
this morning on Dallas Radio, and the big questions, now,
what are you going to do with Dak? How are
you gonna pay Dak? Is Dak the future of the
NFL in Dallas? Jerry Jones, ever, the businessman, doesn't generally
(17:15):
like to talk publicly about money. Totally get it. If
I own a team, That's how I would act. Said
this about Dak. We've got to be reminded that I
have a team that we've got to really manage how
we dole out our resources. Dak is deserving of anything
(17:36):
you want to put on a piece of paper, Relatively speaking,
he's deserved of that. And if you evaluate what he
can do to help us win championships, we've got to
make it work. So what am I saying. I'm I
saying exactly the same thing that I said the last
time we asked about this before the season started. It's
(17:56):
a part of the game, is the business and the
contract part. What's interesting about Dallas to me is the
Dack injury is gonna allow potentially Dallas to have excuses. Well,
I mean, we lost our quarterback where six and ten
were seven and nine. But let me offer this, Dallas
is rebuilding. They just don't know it. You watch the
(18:20):
Giants and Dallas this weekend. We know the Giants are rebuilding.
It looked like the same team. One had a really
good defense, one had a really good offense, one had
a bad offense, one had a bad defense. Let me
hear me out here. Offensive line now is bad. Defensive
line is old and not very good. Secondary, outside of
Treyvon Diggs, not very talented linebackers, expensive, overrated, banged up
(18:45):
outside of the wide receiving corps which is substantial, and
the running backs, I like Pollard and Zeke outside of that,
What do you mean rebuilding? Because most of us know rebuilding.
Detroit is rebuilding, the Giants are rebuilding, Washington is rebuilding.
I'm not denying that. But there's also these teams. And
we also know Green Bay isn't rebuilding. In Baltimore is
not rebuilding. In Kansas said he's not rebuilding. We know that.
(19:08):
But then there's these teams in the middle that are
and you're like, they just don't want to talk about it.
Dallas is rebuilding. What does rebuilding mean? If you go
into a draft the next draft and you've got half
or more of your units need somebody a playmaker because
you're not making enough plays offensor defense, you are rebuilding.
(19:29):
And again there's seven eight teams not rebuilding. Dallas needs
two offensive linemen minimum one maybe two defensive linemen, another linebacker,
a safety, one to two more corners. They could really
use an elite tight end. Again, they don't need a
running back. Zeke and Tony Pollard nice dimensions, they're like
them both Actually, I think Pollard's a little underrated. Zeke
(19:51):
right now is still really good wide receivers. They're loaded.
They don't need a draft a wide receiver for two years.
They are all good at wide receiver. But that is
why the Cede Lamb draft pick to me was so weird,
Like you just paid Amari Cooper a ton of money.
You want to get him touches. Michael Gallup's becoming a star,
and you had Cedric Wilson in practice, And all I
(20:13):
know is when I watched Cedric Wilson, I'm like, that's
one of the better third receivers potentially in the league.
So I think the Dak injury gives Dallas opportunities to say,
you know, we're you know we were gonna be blank.
I think Dallas is rebuilding. I think they're a rebuilding team.
You go into a draft six units need a playmaker,
(20:33):
you are rebuilding, and I feel Dallas is what's up? Everybody?
John Middlecoff three and Out podcast. Go subscribe right now,
you right, Colin show you like football, you will like
this podcast. We talk a ton of NFL, ton of draft,
ton of college football coming up this week. Justin Herbert,
a star is born, Drew brees Is he shot Mike Tomlin,
(20:54):
Keith on Roland Dak Prescott's ankle in his future with
the Cowboys. We cover it all three out podcast. Subscribe
wherever you listen to podcast Heard Hierarchy. The top ten
NFL teams according to College. Number ten Cleveland Browns Kevin
Stefanski is my early leader for Coach of the Year.
(21:15):
They finally got a smart coach who's a grown up,
very mature. I love what he's doing. They not only
lead the NFL in rushing, but they lead the NFL
in ten plus yard rushes, meaning that's a big play
rush offense. They'll hit you over the top as well.
Baker Mayfield worries me, but he does have multiple touchdowns
in each game. I'll probably no more after this weekend
(21:38):
against Pittsburgh. But the Browns defense scares me on the
back end, but they have forced twelve turnovers this year.
Number one. Baker worries me in big spots, but I
got Cleveland number ten. I loved their coach. Number nine
Pittsburgh Steelers, listen there. You can't run on them. So
it's gonna be will versus force this weekend. Cleveland's run
(21:59):
game against Pittsburgh's run defense. Their upcoming schedule Browns and
Ravens will tell me a lot about Pittsburgh. I've still
got some doubts. They're only twenty fourth in the NFL
yards per play, Big Ben's not making mistakes seventy percent
completion rate. But the Steelers have beaten teams with a
combined record of three fifteen and one. They've beaten a
bunch of nonsense, and so I have my real doubts.
(22:22):
This weekend, I got them at nine, one spot ahead
of Cleveland, and I'm not sure if I voted on
this tomorrow, i'd feel the same. I think it's a
toss up with Cleveland a little more explosive offensively number
eight Rams four No, but it's against the NFC East.
They are beaten up in the Giants and the Cowboys.
(22:44):
Number one in yardage differential. That's a real thing, meaning
they are explosive. Their defense has the most sacks this year.
That was a real point of contention in the offseason.
We're not getting the quarterback. Todd Gurley's gone. They've done
a nice job. They got cam Aker Henderson, they got
nice running backs. Now I think it's a real good
room to be in. It's a good team going forward.
(23:07):
I think there's some limitations if Goff sends his pressure,
but the reality is Goff has won two games for
every game he's lost with Sean McVay, and I got
the Rams at eight. Number seven Tampa Bay have some concerns.
Leonard Furnett still banged up, Chris Godwin's still out. I
would like to see this team when they're healthy. Against
(23:27):
Chicago they have oh you know, they've got their tight end,
best tight end out for the year. Furnett's gone, Godwin,
Mike Evans, here's the good news. Love Todd Bull's defensive coordinator.
They have the number one rushing defense in the NFL.
And Mike Evans when he's healthy. He and Brady ever
relationship right now. So this is a team that should
get better. But I keep mit seven because they looked
(23:48):
like garbage against the Bears. He got Brady barking at people,
and frankly, their protection wasn't very good. Number six Buffalo
Bills not much to dislike Josh Allen. They have thirty
plus points in each of their last three games. I
have them this low because coming up they faced Tennessee,
the Chiefs, the Patriots, and the Seahawks. So I feel
(24:09):
like in the next month I'm really gonna get a
sense of what they are. I have said this before.
I think it's the best young coaching staff in the NFL.
This is it that in the forty nine ers, best
young coaching staff in the NFL. They've done a miraculous
job with Josh Allen. But the truth is the next
three four games, number five Patriots. I would take the
Patriots with Cam Newton over the Bills this morning if
(24:31):
they played. Still the best coach team in the league.
Keep your eye on Damian Harris emerging as a star
at running back, the second best rushing team after Cleveland.
Their defense has allowed one rushing touchdown. Again with Cam,
I think they're a nightmare to face. I think they
match up with Kansas City very well. You know our
Kansas City sort of Baltimore's kryptonite, Belichick, and this team
(24:55):
with Cam Newton could possibly be Kansas City's kryptonite. I
think they would have beating them. They run the ball,
They've got an emerging start at running back. You can't
run on them. And they're the best coach team in
the league. Number four, the Seahawks. It's mostly on voting
Russell Wilson fourth. It is a historically pathetic defense. Now
Jamal Adams has been banged up. They do a Bobby
(25:15):
Wagner and Jamal Adams, But if you look at most
games game winning drives in the first nine seasons of
the NFL, Russell Wilson is first all time. Now again,
they got to go to Buffalo and they got a
game against the Rams on the road, so we'll get
a little more clarity. But at this point, they've got playmakers.
Russell's a playmaker, Jamal Adams a playmaker. DK Metcalf's a playmaker.
(25:39):
Bobby Wagner's a playmaker. They've got flaws, but they've also
When you can get out played and win like they
did against Minnesota, that speaks well of you. They got
outplayed and won. Not a lot of teams in the
NFL can say that. Number three Ravens. I like them.
I think we're selling too much of our stock. Highest
yards per carry in the NFL. Again, that's very Cleveland.
(26:01):
They not only run the ball, but they'll pop runs.
This is an aggressive home run running game. They can
pop stuff they lead in scoring defense. I thought last
week Lamar looked a little banged up, so I didn't
take a ton from last week's performance. So don't sell
your ravenstock. If you're selling it, I'm buying it. I
(26:21):
got him at three. Number two. Kansas City is number two. Listen,
the loss of the Raiders snapped a thirteen game winning streak.
But I will say this about this team. They can
be maddeningly inconsistent, even offensively half to half. They can
have bad half, bad series. They're just not as consistent
as i'd like. Offensively, they're there, they don't have a ceiling.
(26:45):
I mean, when they're on lights out, good night, thanks
for flying United, But they don't get to that point
a lot. And I ag Andy Reid's concern is, hey,
we got to button up some stuff. When we're great.
Nobody's beaten us, but we have some real holes and
real droughts, and they did against the Raiders. Number one
Green Bay. There's some really interesting number numbers here, and
(27:08):
he faces Brady this week, but here's some numbers that
you can't deny. They're averaging six point eight yards of play.
That is a Vegas number. Vegas loves it. If you're
averaging almost seven yards of play, that's well, why are
they doing it? The offensive line is ranked number one
in the NFL. Aaron hasn't thrown a pick, They're not
getting penalized, they're not turning the ball over. I think
(27:32):
their defense is probably a little better than we give
it credit for because Aaron is so fantastic. We pay
so much attention to Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers in Green
Bay's offense that their defenses are rarely bad. I think
it's a good, solid defense. Certainly, there's some bad defenses
in the NFC. I think Green Bay's the best team
right now. Fewest sacks allowed, no interceptions, seven yards of play,
(27:56):
a better defense, they're special, teams are reliable. If Davante
ad is healthy and he's got some injury history, I
think it's I think it's a super Bowl winning team.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Eastern not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeart Radio app. Brian Westbrook played
for a decade in the NFL. A multiple time Pro bowler,
(28:18):
He uh is just talking to him during the break
he went to Wharton, Villanova Wharton. So he's officially the
smartest guy in this current conversation. Coming up, Brian Westbrook
is now joining us live Wharton. Who gets Wharton on
the resume? God, guy, you you Wharton guys. Lord, he's
(28:40):
just trying to trying to make your work out here
in this real world that we live in at this point,
retirement is not always an easy place to try to
find a job, so trying to figure life out. Well, congrats,
it's it's incredible. So we were during the break, we
were saying, I'm and you have a business background. I
believe in structures, so I tend to look at the NFL.
(29:01):
What's your structure like and who's your quarterback? And that's
how I picked my division winners. Philadelphia. I like their owner,
I like their GM, I like their coach, and I
like Wentz. But you know that city. Well, Villanova kid,
you've played for the Eagles. I wonder you you'll look
this morning somethink Wentz too many injuries, lost the right coaches,
(29:23):
he's lost his confidence. Weigh in on Philadelphi. We're really
really early, and I'm hearing some Baylors on Baylor's on
the Eagles right now? Where do you stand on them
this morning? Well, I saw an offensive team last week
that put up twenty nine points against the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I saw a team that doesn't have Deshaun Jackson, doesn't
(29:45):
have Alshon Jeffrey, doesn't have Dallas Goddard, doesn't have their
first round picked Jail Rager, and really all the only
receiver that they had was a practice squad guy that
they cut a couple of times, got cut by different
teams in Travis Fogum, and they were able to put
up twenty nine points on a very good defense of
the Steelers in at Hines Field. So I think, you know,
(30:06):
this football team has a way to go. They don't
have a bunch of talent. They're not a talented at
the skilled position, might the Dallas Cowboys. But what I
am seeing is a quarterback that struggled early on in
the season with interceptions, bad reads, bad decisions, just errand throws.
And over the last couple of weeks, and I probably
say the last six quarters, I think Carson is starting
(30:27):
to figure it out. He's using his legs a little
bit more. You saw that in the forty nine Ers game.
He's able to get the ball in the right position.
We saw that last week against the Steelers. I feel
like he's starting to figure it out. And he struggled again.
He struggled mightily at the very beginning of the season.
But I think he's coming out of that just a bit.
And once you get some more talent around, and once
(30:47):
you get any of those guys that I named before, fact,
I think it's going to give Carson an opportunity to
exploit some holes in some defenses. Right now, they're just
so ravaged by injury and those types of things. It's
hard to see how good of a team they really
are because of the injuries. You know, I was saying
in the break Brian that I watched the Giants and
(31:08):
the Cowboys play this weekend, and I saw two rebuilding teams.
We just all know the Giants are rebuilding. One had
a good defense, one had a great offense. And I
look at Dallas and my theory behind rebuilding is if
you go into a draft and at least half the
units on your team need a playmaker, then you're rebuilding.
I don't care. I don't care if you acknowledge it.
(31:29):
We know teams that are Baltimore is not rebuilding. We
know Kansas City, Green Bay they're not. And we know
New York is. But I look at Dallas offensive lines,
old defensive lines, old linebackers are, to be honest, a
little overpaid and overrated at this moment. They need a safety,
they need another corner, they're tight end, they're not special
outside of receiver and back. I got questions everywhere. Is
(31:52):
it possible? I looked at the Giants in Dallas, Brian,
they look like rebuilding teams. To me, am I wrong? Well,
you have to ask yourself this, will Jerry Jones ever
allowed his team to be in a total rebuild? Would
he ever allowed his football team to say, you know what,
we're tearing everything down. We're gonna be irrelevant, irrelevant for
a couple of years, and then we're gonna come back stronger.
(32:13):
I just don't. I don't see that happening. I think
Jerry says, we have three good wide receivers. We all
know what they can do. We know what Zeke can do.
We'll be serviceable at the quarterback position with Andy Dalton.
Now we can find a way to get our defense
not to be terrible. And what we've seen from their
defense all season long. Is them getting dominated at the
line of scrimmage, them showing a lack of urgency, a
(32:35):
lack of toughness. They're just being lazy so many times
on the defensive side of the ball, they're getting beat
down the field. I mean, they have a bunch of
holes on the defensive side of the ball, and they
paid a lot of guys over there, a lot of
different a lot of money as well, and so they
shouldn't be at that bad. They shouldn't be rebuilding on
the defensive side of the ball. But just as you mentioned,
(32:56):
they have a lot of holes. They have to feel
those holes. So I don't necessarily think that Dallas is
in a total rebuild. I just think they have to
sharpen their tools on the defensive side of the ball.
It starts with effort. If they can show a little
bit more effort, which I think they did this last week,
I think they can win some games, but they're a
long way for being one of the better teams in
the ndup seat Brian Westbrook nine years, two time pro bowler.
(33:21):
You know I said this last night. There's there's four
old quarterbacks in the league. Two of them don't look
like they can really take me to the place I
want to be. Rivers and Brees two of them, Big
Ben Brady can but they're not as special as some
of these young guys. So you know, as you start
looking around this league at quarterback, and Josh Allen is
(33:41):
really good, really fast, and Lamar is really good, really fast,
and oh my god, Joe Burrow's really good, and Justin
Herbert's really good, and then you get a bunch of
guys like Matt Ryan and I'm like, ah, Jimmy Garoppolo,
So let's start with Garoppolo this weekend a mess was
an injury or just Jimmy g struggling? What did you see?
(34:04):
What I saw a quarterback that was struggling. I would
initially think it was because of the injuries. He didn't
seem like he can step into any throws. He didn't
seem confident. I don't know how much practice time he
got in the past week. He just didn't look confident
in any of his throws. He didn't want to know
how to pull the trigger and let the ball go.
And then when he did step into it, a lot
of his throws were sailing all over the place. And
(34:26):
that's why he ends up getting pulled. When you're losing
the amount of games at the forty ninets have lost
this year, and you're supposed to be a good team.
Sometimes when you're injured, you kind of forced yourself to
get back in there when you're really not ready to play.
And I don't think Jimmy Jimmy G was ready to
play this past week, and and that's why Kyle pulled
him out of the game. He'll come back. But again,
(34:46):
Jimmy G wasn't special special last year. He had a
great defense, and he had an offense that knew how
to run the ball. And when you have the ability
to run the ball on anybody, you can get some
play action passes going. And then the throws that you're
making are too wide open receivers in tight ends, and
of course we know what George Kittle can do with
yards after the catch. So when you're talking about an
average quarterback to start, then you add injury to that.
(35:09):
Without that dominant defense, you're seeing what you're seeing for
the San Francisco forty nine ers, and it's not a
very good sight. You know. I was just thinking as
you're talking, it's funny is that Joe Burrow and Justin
Herbert and Josh Allen. Especially Herbert is so good quickly
and Joe Burrow is so competent quickly. It makes me think,
(35:29):
if you're Miami, you put two in in three weeks
and you give him eight nine games and he's just okay.
Do you revisit quarterback in the NFL? Are you gonna
have Justin Fields? I mean, it's funny, Brian, but Justin
Herbert and Joe Burrow are boom. They can play period.
And I got three world class in the Dolphins. By
(35:52):
the way, gonna have Houston's first round pick next year.
They got two of their own picks or they got
one of their own end Houston, so they're gonna have
two top ten potentially. What if Tuoa comes out? Is
it ever happened that your rivals the culture changes. There's
so many special young guys. What if Tua comes in
in place eight games and looks mad? Do you go
(36:12):
get another guy? I don't want to make a joy
get her too upset here it's talking about her Dolphins.
But I think the answer is no. You gotta give
to an opportunity to get used to the league and
they've struggled a little bit with Ryan Fitzpatrick, but of
course when he struggles, he comes back, keeping stronger and
throws the ball. You have to give two an opportunity.
You pick them, you draft them way too high to
(36:34):
be able to say, you know, he struggled at the
end of the year, and now we're not gonna go
with him. Now we're gonna move on. You've done that
too many times in the past. At some point you
got to settle in and say this is our guy
and we're gonna go with him despite some early struggles.
And there's not going to be a bunch of young
quarterbacks that go out there and light the world up
like Joe Barrow and Herbert. There's just doesn't happen every
(36:56):
single year too. And maybe one of those guys. He
may be one of those guys that gets better by
sitting on the bench and watching and coming in in
the second year with all the practice reps, as far
as the off season and OTAs, he's a much better quarterback.
We never know. We won't really know until he gets
that opportunity. But I don't give up win a quarterback
after their first year. I think that would be foolish. Yeah. Finally,
(37:17):
Andy Dalton. Can you win a division with Andy Dalton
at this point in his career, Absolutely, you can win
a division because we've mentioned it earlier. You have all
the weapons. The division is just bad. The NFC East
is absolutely terrible. But more importantly, it's their schedule. It's
the teams that they're going to play. And when you
look at their schedule, you're talking about teams over five hundred.
(37:38):
At this current point, they're only going to play two
more of those teams. That's the Steelers and the Ravens.
All the other teams that they're going to be facing
the Cowboys will be facing are under five hundred. So
I mean when you talk about what does he have
to do, well, he doesn't have to. All he has
to do is not turn the ball over hand, the
ball off to Z, make sure that the receivers touch it.
And if he does that, I think that helps defense
(38:00):
out a little bit too. Get your running game going,
get your defense off the field, and if you could
do that, that helps them win football games. And the
schedule dictate that they don't have a hard road in
front of him. Yeah. No, if he's a distributor, He's
the point guard that passes, not shoots. You go in
a lot of games without receiving Core and Ze. Good stuff,
Brian Westbrook, Love having you on
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern, nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhern on
Fox Sports Radio. Oh it is a loaded jam pack
(00:25):
Tuesday live in Los Angeles. This is the Herd. Wherever
you may be and however you may be listening, run
Fox Sports Radio and right here on FS one one
hour from now. The Herd hierarchy rich, packed with flavor
ten playoff teams. What do I do with Brady in
(00:47):
the Bucks? They looked awful against Chicago? What do I
do with Seattle worst defense of all time? Statistically? Joy
Taylor is joining me. It appears Joy. We talk about
this all the time. All the quarterbacks are getting better.
We appear to have another new star at quarterback. Didn't
see it coming, but he has arrived. He is really good, folks.
(01:09):
I don't want to hear about Michael Thomas. Wasn't there
for Drew Brees? Stop Okay, Justin Herbert's a rookie. Okay,
he didn't have his starting right tackle, his starting right guard,
his starting running back, and his best receiver Keenan Allen
got hurt end of the first quarter, and he went
on the road against Drew Brees and was a better
quarterback and it wasn't close. Passer rating the kid without
(01:30):
two of his offensive linemen, and the Saints have one
of the best pass rushes in the NFL one hundred
and twenty three passer rating, four touchdowns, no picks. You
can do so much more with Justin Herbert than you
can do with Drew Brees. They moved the pocket out.
He's got a rocket arm. You can throw it deep short,
It doesn't matter. The question now is will the Chargers
(01:51):
screw it up? That's the question now, because where are
you Land matters in the NFL. Sam Darnold punct shirt
by his team, Josh Allen. You'll watch the night elevated
by his look. How long it has taken Baker Mayfield
to finally get a grown up as a head coach. Oh,
Baker looks pretty good. Where are you Land? Manners? And
(02:13):
the Chargers have a good GM and a lot of talent,
but what a shock last night. The coaching wasn't good
and the special teams lost the game. This kid has
led in the last three four weeks. He's led Mahomes,
He's led Breathe, He's led Brady in the fourth quarter.
And they can't make a kick or they co conservative
with play calling. This kid's a rock star. But this
(02:35):
organization historically has gone cheap? Is Anthony Lynn the coach? Well,
let's look at his own division. In order to win
this division, Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes can Anthony Lynn outdue them?
Forget Belichick and the AFC, Forget John Harbon the FC,
Forget Mike Tomlin, forget Sean McDermott, forget Mike frabel. Is
he as good as daring as John Gruden is He's
(02:58):
schematically clever like Andy. All I know is this justin
Herbert is Wow. The only two quarterbacks in the league
that have this talent, this size, this arm, this escapability.
The two of them are Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen.
And Patrick Mahomes got a year to sit behind Alex Smith.
(03:18):
Josh Allen was awful his first year and a half
in the league. This kid is great. Now, will the
Charger screw it up? Is Anthony Lynn right? Is Anthony
Lynn good enough? He wasn't last night? And if they
decide he's not. Will Dean Spanos to the owner go
out and pay ten million dollars for Lincoln Riley or
ten million dollars for Urban Meyer, not some retread coach
(03:41):
like the Cowboys did. Will you go out and spend
big boy money to get it John Harball to go
get a rock star head coach, because we know in
this league, if you give Lamar Jackson John Harball, we
know how it turns out really good. And if you
give Josh Allen a Sean McDermott excellent young coach, we
know how it turns out. You'll watch the night really good.
(04:04):
We know that if Mike Rabel gets his hands on
Ryan Tannehill, what happens? Average quarterback then better than average.
Because I'm watching Justin I have questions about this staff.
They watched all these practices, they watched all this game tape,
and it wasn't until last week the Chargers went, yeah,
we think Justin Herbert's better. What are you watching? I mean,
(04:26):
there are things in life that are subtle and nuanced.
Justin Herbert has a massive arm is huge. This kid.
Everybody nip picked him at Oregon. So I watched a
lot of Oregon football games because I used to work
in Portland. So they have an offensive line coach as
a head coach, very conservative, and they don't have great
weapons like Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU. It's Oregon. They
(04:46):
don't have five star wide receivers, right, and so Justin Herbert.
It was a very conservative offense and at the end
of the year Joy was here. They decided at the
end of the year in the Rose Bowl, we got
no games left for Justin Herbert. Go for it. And
did you watch him against Wisconsin. Wisconsin at a great defense,
they couldn't stop Justin Herbert. It doesn't take much to
this kid was a Dean's List student in college and
(05:08):
he majored in biology. It wasn't like a lot of
athletes who you know, you find the major that kind
of works for your ability to not like, you know,
go to practice and stuff. He majored in biology. He
was a Dean's Lister. We've had people of this network
who have covered Oregon interviewed him. They're like, oh, kid,
blows you away the wisdom for like a twenty one
year old kid. But I wonder about this. Can the
(05:29):
Chargers elevate him? Because last night, I mean when they
joint that field goal, you were all watching that game
saying the same thing, Cots and Chargers. When they went
conservative with their play calling, you were all saying the
same things Chargers. So the pressure is not on Justin Herbert.
That that it's been. It's been. He's played four games.
(05:50):
First game again, five minute heads up, you're playing against
Patrick Mahomes. I don't know, a little intimidating. Can you
imagine five minutes you're fighting Mike Tyson. Five minutes you
have to face messy five minutes Patrick Mahomes a little nervous.
He outplayed him for the first half of that game.
He outplayed Tom Brady first half of that game. He
(06:11):
outplayed Drew Brees last night. Are the Chargers good at
the pressures? Not on Herbert. It's on the organization because
the organization has a history of being cheap, screwing up
special teams and in and they got players. Don't don't
kill yourself. It's not what was me. Justin Herbert's got
real receivers. I mean, this is a real football team
with real players. But four games the first one a touchdown,
(06:34):
a pick, second one to touchdown, a pick, third one,
three touchdowns a pick. Last night, four touchdowns, no picks.
Cameron Heyward of the Saints, great player on a great
defensive line, said, oh watch out this kid special. He's
a baller. Um, young kids out there taking a lot
of hits today. I think our d line our I
think our front seven got after him pretty well. Um.
(06:56):
You know, he made a lot of a lot of
great plays down the stretch. And that's something you know
that he may be a force to be reckoned with
for the years to come. He's showing he' showing some
some huge potential. Cameron Jordan, my bad. All right, let's
shift to this yesterday I said something to Joy during
the show and it wasn't. I didn't wasn't trying to
be a hot take. But I watched Matt Ryan this weekend,
(07:16):
and I'm watching the NFL in twenty twenty, and I'm like,
Atlanta fired everybody, they fired their GM, they fired the coach,
and I'm like, i think I'd move off Matt Ryan
in one year. Cap space you got, you gotta keep
in this year next year. But if I could draft
the Trevor Lawrence, if Atlanta keeps losing, if I could
draft the Justin Fields, I draft him very interesting. The
(07:38):
owner of the Atlanta Falcons, Arthur Blank, said, we're not
quite sure what we're gonna do at the quarterback situation
with Matt Ryan. Matt is has the ability to play
at the our high level, even at this age. Whether
that's going to continue or not, I'm not sure. I
appreciate his willingness to consider doing that and the level
(08:01):
of what he's played for for us for thirteen years,
which has been incredible, So I will have to say,
But then again, that's going to be a decision at
the end of the day. That'll be part of We'd
be up to the player and would be up to
the coaching staff and whether or not, you know, Matt
can keep himself together, and I hope he's going to
be part of our plans going forward, but that would
be decision that I won't make. Not exactly a vote
(08:22):
of confidence. Matt Ryan's not bad. We all know that
Matt Ryan's not special and dynamic. We all know that
he's Kirk Cousins with an MVP, would you move off
Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins gets talked about a lot because
kirk Cousin wins and got that initial big contract. But
(08:42):
kirk Cousins is actually more mobile than Matt Ryan. You
can roll the pocket out with him. Kirk Cousins actually
thought a better deep ball than Matt Ryan. What do
you do with Matt Ryan? I watched Matt Ryan this
past weekend. When everything's set up for success, it can
be nice. It's sort of like, you know, like marriages.
(09:04):
Everybody gets along in the honeymoon, the kids are at
camp for the summer, no win, laws around, and the
money's rolling in. But how's the marriage when the money's tight,
in laws are in town, kids are melting down. That's
a real marriage. That's what all of us go through.
Matt Ryan is great when everything's set up for him,
(09:27):
but it's twenty twenty. Nothing's set up for anybody. Justin Herbert,
Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. Those guys make plays
when the world isn't perfect. Matt Ryan plays in a dome.
There is no win. He plays in a warm weather division.
If he played in Pittsburgh, you'd see even more issues.
(09:49):
He has largely protected. Julio Jones plays in a dome.
But this is the real question your marriage. It's tested
when the kids melt down, not when they're away at camp.
And in twenty twenty, what's your quarterback like when you're
missing a left tackle, your top running back is out,
(10:13):
your number two receivers out, and your back is killing
you because he got sacked five times the previous week.
And that's for Matt ryan territory. He can't elevate. I'm
watching the NFL right now, and there was about seven
teams that I would say would not draft Trevor Lawrence,
about seven everybody else. That kid at Clemson, I'd take him,
(10:38):
sit him for a year in Atlanta and move on.
If you want to be special, you got to have
a special quarterback. Matt Ryan is special when everything is
set up to succeed. As you watch the NFL going forward,
when is everything perfectly set up to succeed? The answer
almost never. Be sure to catch live edition The Herd
(11:00):
weekdayson noun Easter ninety Empacific. This excuse I am tired of. Officially,
I'm getting you know what I mean, I don't like
excuses to begin with. I tell my kids this all
the time. I don't want to hear Victim hud got
a good life. Granted countertops, We're all good here. I
don't want excuses. I don't want to hear Michael Thomas
is not available for Drew Brees and that's the problem.
(11:21):
That ain't the problem. Michael Thomas is worth one point
in Vegas. That's what he's worth. NFL scoring has never
been higher. I saw stat this morning. Last year there
were like twenty five games where they scored over you know,
like combined fifty points or something. We're already at like
twenty two. Michael Thomas is worth a point. Okay, there's
(11:43):
four old quarterbacks in the NFL. Let's be honest too,
complaint too. Can't Philip Rivers and Breeze right now? Can't
win big with him? Big Ben and Tom Brady. I
think you can, but Breeze needs to outsmart you, and
he's great at it. But Sean Payton is one of
the smartest offensive code of my lifetime. In the NFL.
He's on a short list. When he wants athleticism or
(12:05):
a deep ball, he brings in Taysom Hill, and everybody's
complaining last night on Twitter about Taysom Hill. The Saints
offense doesn't need Taysom Hill. Hell, it doesn't. Their first
six possessions last night against the Chargers, who are a
beat up mess. Defensively, you got no Derwin, James Brandon,
Ingram's out, Bosa's limited. Their defense is a wreck right now.
(12:26):
They're all banged up. The first six possessions Drew Brees
led punt, punt, field goal, punt, interception, punt in the
field goal was an eighteen yard drive and they're only
touchdown of the first half. They basically got it at midfield.
You're not smarter than Sean Payton. Sean Payton's Washington practice.
Sean Payton's like, we gotta throw it deep, we gotta
bring in the other guy. We need an athlete. We're
got to bring him the other guy. And I love
(12:48):
Drew Brees, a first ballot Hall of Famer, but at
some point I'll be on the air and I'll be
I'll have no more teeth left, and I'll be hacking
and weazon and You'll be like, it's over for Colin.
You can't win with Colin, right now still got a shot,
Still got a shot with me. But you know this
is not about Michael Thomas. This is a pop gun offense.
I mean the offense is Alvin Kamara, little dump pass,
(13:10):
make it work. It's not a knock on anybody. This
is an elite defensive line, a very good offensive line.
Kamaras a stud. But but there's four old quarterbacks in
this league, and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Your eyes
aren't They're not fooling you. Okay, what you're seeing is
Justin Herbert. You can do a lot more with Justin Herbert.
You're gonna watch Josh Allen tonight. You can roll the pocket,
(13:31):
you can throw deep intermediate. I mean, Josh Allen and
Justin Herbert are the kind of guys. Justin Herbert was
getting the crap knocked out of him last night. I
mean he was thrown off, he was thrown off balance,
he was throwing while getting hit. He's got two offensive
lineman out, he doesn't have his best running back, Keenan.
Allen gets hurt and there and they are a field
goal away from beating Drew Brees. So I want to
(13:51):
hear about Michael Thomas. Great player, he's worth a point. Okay,
you got two offensive linemen out for the Chargers. We
all know what quarterbacks need. Good coach, good offensive line.
That's just as valuable. One more Herd. The Herd streams
twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within
the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on
(14:12):
demand whenever you like. So I saw some. It's unfortunate.
The media has never been worse, and I'm seeing these
Aaron Rodgers should be the MVP stories in the last
couple of weeks, and it's like, stop, let's stop. Let
me give you some perspective on this. There's no story here.
Russell Wilson is five and zero. This Seattle defense this
(14:38):
morning is statistically the worst in league history, in league history.
Here's the worst four defenses for our radio audience. Seattle's won.
They're five and zero, including a win over Belichick and
cam Atlanta's is now the second worst. They just fired
their GM and their coach because of it. Drew Brees
twenty twelve Saints third worst defense. They were seven to nine.
(15:00):
Remember they had the best offense in the league. Drew
Brees couldn't get a winning record with the best offense
in the league when he had a bad defense and
the eighty one Colts were awful. You cannot win in
this league with a historically awful defense. So let's start
with that. Aaron Rodgers much better defense. Here's the other thing.
(15:23):
I mean, Russell has scored thirty five against Belichick, thirty
one against Brian Flores, and twenty seven against Mike Zimber
this weekend in a driving rainstorm. Three to good defensive coaches.
But ask yourself this, offensive lines do they matter? Do
you know the number one rated offensive line in the
NFL this morning? PF green Bay. Green Bay also has
(15:45):
a top five running back in the league Aaron Jones,
a top five wide receiver, maybe a top two wide
receiver in Davante Adams. Green Bay also has an offensive
coach that obviously helps. I mean, you don't think Jared
Goff had a defensive coach in an offensive coach kind
of a difference. The only advantage Russell Wilson has over
Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson's number two wide receiver, Tyler Lockett,
(16:09):
is better than Aaron Rodgers number two wide receiver. Most
valuable is the ability that this is what Lebron just
did to take a lot of disparate parts or average
parts and elevate all of them. You could know Aaron
Rodgers is number two in the voting, like Burger King
is number two to McDonald's. But it's not close. Okay,
(16:31):
it's it's not close. Aaron Rodgers could not take this
offensive line and this defense and be five and oh.
Aaron's in a easier division with a better defense and
offensive coach, the best offensive line in the league, a
better number one receiver, and a better number one running back.
It ain't close. Seattle's five and oh worst defense in
(16:52):
league history so far, and they haven't even faced you know,
they haven't even faced some of the more dynamic offenses.
Bill face all right. Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys,
this morning on Dallas Radio, and the big questions, now,
what are you going to do with Dak? How are
you gonna pay Dak? Is Dak the future of the
NFL in Dallas? Jerry Jones, ever, the businessman, doesn't generally
(17:15):
like to talk publicly about money. Totally get it. If
I own a team, That's how I would act. Said
this about Dak. We've got to be reminded that I
have a team that we've got to really manage how
we dole out our resources. Dak is deserving of anything
(17:36):
you want to put on a piece of paper, Relatively speaking,
he's deserved of that. And if you evaluate what he
can do to help us win championships, we've got to
make it work. So what am I saying. I'm I
saying exactly the same thing that I said the last
time we asked about this before the season started. It's
(17:56):
a part of the game, is the business and the
contract part. What's interesting about Dallas to me is the
Dack injury is gonna allow potentially Dallas to have excuses. Well,
I mean, we lost our quarterback where six and ten
were seven and nine. But let me offer this, Dallas
is rebuilding. They just don't know it. You watch the
(18:20):
Giants and Dallas this weekend. We know the Giants are rebuilding.
It looked like the same team. One had a really
good defense, one had a really good offense, one had
a bad offense, one had a bad defense. Let me
hear me out here. Offensive line now is bad. Defensive
line is old and not very good. Secondary, outside of
Treyvon Diggs, not very talented linebackers, expensive, overrated, banged up
(18:45):
outside of the wide receiving corps which is substantial, and
the running backs, I like Pollard and Zeke outside of that,
What do you mean rebuilding? Because most of us know rebuilding.
Detroit is rebuilding, the Giants are rebuilding, Washington is rebuilding.
I'm not denying that. But there's also these teams. And
we also know Green Bay isn't rebuilding. In Baltimore is
not rebuilding. In Kansas said he's not rebuilding. We know that.
(19:08):
But then there's these teams in the middle that are
and you're like, they just don't want to talk about it.
Dallas is rebuilding. What does rebuilding mean? If you go
into a draft the next draft and you've got half
or more of your units need somebody a playmaker because
you're not making enough plays offensor defense, you are rebuilding.
(19:29):
And again there's seven eight teams not rebuilding. Dallas needs
two offensive linemen minimum one maybe two defensive linemen, another linebacker,
a safety, one to two more corners. They could really
use an elite tight end. Again, they don't need a
running back. Zeke and Tony Pollard nice dimensions, they're like
them both Actually, I think Pollard's a little underrated. Zeke
(19:51):
right now is still really good wide receivers. They're loaded.
They don't need a draft a wide receiver for two years.
They are all good at wide receiver. But that is
why the Cede Lamb draft pick to me was so weird,
Like you just paid Amari Cooper a ton of money.
You want to get him touches. Michael Gallup's becoming a star,
and you had Cedric Wilson in practice, And all I
(20:13):
know is when I watched Cedric Wilson, I'm like, that's
one of the better third receivers potentially in the league.
So I think the Dak injury gives Dallas opportunities to say,
you know, we're you know we were gonna be blank.
I think Dallas is rebuilding. I think they're a rebuilding team.
You go into a draft six units need a playmaker,
(20:33):
you are rebuilding, and I feel Dallas is what's up? Everybody?
John Middlecoff three and Out podcast. Go subscribe right now,
you right, Colin show you like football, you will like
this podcast. We talk a ton of NFL, ton of draft,
ton of college football coming up this week. Justin Herbert,
a star is born, Drew brees Is he shot Mike Tomlin,
(20:54):
Keith on Roland Dak Prescott's ankle in his future with
the Cowboys. We cover it all three out podcast. Subscribe
wherever you listen to podcast Heard Hierarchy. The top ten
NFL teams according to College. Number ten Cleveland Browns Kevin
Stefanski is my early leader for Coach of the Year.
(21:15):
They finally got a smart coach who's a grown up,
very mature. I love what he's doing. They not only
lead the NFL in rushing, but they lead the NFL
in ten plus yard rushes, meaning that's a big play
rush offense. They'll hit you over the top as well.
Baker Mayfield worries me, but he does have multiple touchdowns
in each game. I'll probably no more after this weekend
(21:38):
against Pittsburgh. But the Browns defense scares me on the
back end, but they have forced twelve turnovers this year.
Number one. Baker worries me in big spots, but I
got Cleveland number ten. I loved their coach. Number nine
Pittsburgh Steelers, listen there. You can't run on them. So
it's gonna be will versus force this weekend. Cleveland's run
(21:59):
game against Pittsburgh's run defense. Their upcoming schedule Browns and
Ravens will tell me a lot about Pittsburgh. I've still
got some doubts. They're only twenty fourth in the NFL
yards per play, Big Ben's not making mistakes seventy percent
completion rate. But the Steelers have beaten teams with a
combined record of three fifteen and one. They've beaten a
bunch of nonsense, and so I have my real doubts.
(22:22):
This weekend, I got them at nine, one spot ahead
of Cleveland, and I'm not sure if I voted on
this tomorrow, i'd feel the same. I think it's a
toss up with Cleveland a little more explosive offensively number
eight Rams four No, but it's against the NFC East.
They are beaten up in the Giants and the Cowboys.
(22:44):
Number one in yardage differential. That's a real thing, meaning
they are explosive. Their defense has the most sacks this year.
That was a real point of contention in the offseason.
We're not getting the quarterback. Todd Gurley's gone. They've done
a nice job. They got cam Aker Henderson, they got
nice running backs. Now I think it's a real good
room to be in. It's a good team going forward.
(23:07):
I think there's some limitations if Goff sends his pressure,
but the reality is Goff has won two games for
every game he's lost with Sean McVay, and I got
the Rams at eight. Number seven Tampa Bay have some concerns.
Leonard Furnett still banged up, Chris Godwin's still out. I
would like to see this team when they're healthy. Against
(23:27):
Chicago they have oh you know, they've got their tight end,
best tight end out for the year. Furnett's gone, Godwin,
Mike Evans, here's the good news. Love Todd Bull's defensive coordinator.
They have the number one rushing defense in the NFL.
And Mike Evans when he's healthy. He and Brady ever
relationship right now. So this is a team that should
get better. But I keep mit seven because they looked
(23:48):
like garbage against the Bears. He got Brady barking at people,
and frankly, their protection wasn't very good. Number six Buffalo
Bills not much to dislike Josh Allen. They have thirty
plus points in each of their last three games. I
have them this low because coming up they faced Tennessee,
the Chiefs, the Patriots, and the Seahawks. So I feel
(24:09):
like in the next month I'm really gonna get a
sense of what they are. I have said this before.
I think it's the best young coaching staff in the NFL.
This is it that in the forty nine ers, best
young coaching staff in the NFL. They've done a miraculous
job with Josh Allen. But the truth is the next
three four games, number five Patriots. I would take the
Patriots with Cam Newton over the Bills this morning if
(24:31):
they played. Still the best coach team in the league.
Keep your eye on Damian Harris emerging as a star
at running back, the second best rushing team after Cleveland.
Their defense has allowed one rushing touchdown. Again with Cam,
I think they're a nightmare to face. I think they
match up with Kansas City very well. You know our
Kansas City sort of Baltimore's kryptonite, Belichick, and this team
(24:55):
with Cam Newton could possibly be Kansas City's kryptonite. I
think they would have beating them. They run the ball,
They've got an emerging start at running back. You can't
run on them. And they're the best coach team in
the league. Number four, the Seahawks. It's mostly on voting
Russell Wilson fourth. It is a historically pathetic defense. Now
Jamal Adams has been banged up. They do a Bobby
(25:15):
Wagner and Jamal Adams, But if you look at most
games game winning drives in the first nine seasons of
the NFL, Russell Wilson is first all time. Now again,
they got to go to Buffalo and they got a
game against the Rams on the road, so we'll get
a little more clarity. But at this point, they've got playmakers.
Russell's a playmaker, Jamal Adams a playmaker. DK Metcalf's a playmaker.
(25:39):
Bobby Wagner's a playmaker. They've got flaws, but they've also
When you can get out played and win like they
did against Minnesota, that speaks well of you. They got
outplayed and won. Not a lot of teams in the
NFL can say that. Number three Ravens. I like them.
I think we're selling too much of our stock. Highest
yards per carry in the NFL. Again, that's very Cleveland.
(26:01):
They not only run the ball, but they'll pop runs.
This is an aggressive home run running game. They can
pop stuff they lead in scoring defense. I thought last
week Lamar looked a little banged up, so I didn't
take a ton from last week's performance. So don't sell
your ravenstock. If you're selling it, I'm buying it. I
(26:21):
got him at three. Number two. Kansas City is number two. Listen,
the loss of the Raiders snapped a thirteen game winning streak.
But I will say this about this team. They can
be maddeningly inconsistent, even offensively half to half. They can
have bad half, bad series. They're just not as consistent
as i'd like. Offensively, they're there, they don't have a ceiling.
(26:45):
I mean, when they're on lights out, good night, thanks
for flying United, But they don't get to that point
a lot. And I ag Andy Reid's concern is, hey,
we got to button up some stuff. When we're great.
Nobody's beaten us, but we have some real holes and
real droughts, and they did against the Raiders. Number one
Green Bay. There's some really interesting number numbers here, and
(27:08):
he faces Brady this week, but here's some numbers that
you can't deny. They're averaging six point eight yards of play.
That is a Vegas number. Vegas loves it. If you're
averaging almost seven yards of play, that's well, why are
they doing it? The offensive line is ranked number one
in the NFL. Aaron hasn't thrown a pick, They're not
getting penalized, they're not turning the ball over. I think
(27:32):
their defense is probably a little better than we give
it credit for because Aaron is so fantastic. We pay
so much attention to Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers in Green
Bay's offense that their defenses are rarely bad. I think
it's a good, solid defense. Certainly, there's some bad defenses
in the NFC. I think Green Bay's the best team
right now. Fewest sacks allowed, no interceptions, seven yards of play,
(27:56):
a better defense, they're special, teams are reliable. If Davante
ad is healthy and he's got some injury history, I
think it's I think it's a super Bowl winning team.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Eastern not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeart Radio app. Brian Westbrook played
for a decade in the NFL. A multiple time Pro bowler,
(28:18):
He uh is just talking to him during the break
he went to Wharton, Villanova Wharton. So he's officially the
smartest guy in this current conversation. Coming up, Brian Westbrook
is now joining us live Wharton. Who gets Wharton on
the resume? God, guy, you you Wharton guys. Lord, he's
(28:40):
just trying to trying to make your work out here
in this real world that we live in at this point,
retirement is not always an easy place to try to
find a job, so trying to figure life out. Well, congrats,
it's it's incredible. So we were during the break, we
were saying, I'm and you have a business background. I
believe in structures, so I tend to look at the NFL.
(29:01):
What's your structure like and who's your quarterback? And that's
how I picked my division winners. Philadelphia. I like their owner,
I like their GM, I like their coach, and I
like Wentz. But you know that city. Well, Villanova kid,
you've played for the Eagles. I wonder you you'll look
this morning somethink Wentz too many injuries, lost the right coaches,
(29:23):
he's lost his confidence. Weigh in on Philadelphi. We're really
really early, and I'm hearing some Baylors on Baylor's on
the Eagles right now? Where do you stand on them
this morning? Well, I saw an offensive team last week
that put up twenty nine points against the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I saw a team that doesn't have Deshaun Jackson, doesn't
(29:45):
have Alshon Jeffrey, doesn't have Dallas Goddard, doesn't have their
first round picked Jail Rager, and really all the only
receiver that they had was a practice squad guy that
they cut a couple of times, got cut by different
teams in Travis Fogum, and they were able to put
up twenty nine points on a very good defense of
the Steelers in at Hines Field. So I think, you know,
(30:06):
this football team has a way to go. They don't
have a bunch of talent. They're not a talented at
the skilled position, might the Dallas Cowboys. But what I
am seeing is a quarterback that struggled early on in
the season with interceptions, bad reads, bad decisions, just errand throws.
And over the last couple of weeks, and I probably
say the last six quarters, I think Carson is starting
(30:27):
to figure it out. He's using his legs a little
bit more. You saw that in the forty nine Ers game.
He's able to get the ball in the right position.
We saw that last week against the Steelers. I feel
like he's starting to figure it out. And he struggled again.
He struggled mightily at the very beginning of the season.
But I think he's coming out of that just a bit.
And once you get some more talent around, and once
(30:47):
you get any of those guys that I named before, fact,
I think it's going to give Carson an opportunity to
exploit some holes in some defenses. Right now, they're just
so ravaged by injury and those types of things. It's
hard to see how good of a team they really
are because of the injuries. You know, I was saying
in the break Brian that I watched the Giants and
(31:08):
the Cowboys play this weekend, and I saw two rebuilding teams.
We just all know the Giants are rebuilding. One had
a good defense, one had a great offense. And I
look at Dallas and my theory behind rebuilding is if
you go into a draft and at least half the
units on your team need a playmaker, then you're rebuilding.
I don't care. I don't care if you acknowledge it.
(31:29):
We know teams that are Baltimore is not rebuilding. We
know Kansas City, Green Bay they're not. And we know
New York is. But I look at Dallas offensive lines,
old defensive lines, old linebackers are, to be honest, a
little overpaid and overrated at this moment. They need a safety,
they need another corner, they're tight end, they're not special
outside of receiver and back. I got questions everywhere. Is
(31:52):
it possible? I looked at the Giants in Dallas, Brian,
they look like rebuilding teams. To me, am I wrong? Well,
you have to ask yourself this, will Jerry Jones ever
allowed his team to be in a total rebuild? Would
he ever allowed his football team to say, you know what,
we're tearing everything down. We're gonna be irrelevant, irrelevant for
a couple of years, and then we're gonna come back stronger.
(32:13):
I just don't. I don't see that happening. I think
Jerry says, we have three good wide receivers. We all
know what they can do. We know what Zeke can do.
We'll be serviceable at the quarterback position with Andy Dalton.
Now we can find a way to get our defense
not to be terrible. And what we've seen from their
defense all season long. Is them getting dominated at the
line of scrimmage, them showing a lack of urgency, a
(32:35):
lack of toughness. They're just being lazy so many times
on the defensive side of the ball, they're getting beat
down the field. I mean, they have a bunch of
holes on the defensive side of the ball, and they
paid a lot of guys over there, a lot of
different a lot of money as well, and so they
shouldn't be at that bad. They shouldn't be rebuilding on
the defensive side of the ball. But just as you mentioned,
(32:56):
they have a lot of holes. They have to feel
those holes. So I don't necessarily think that Dallas is
in a total rebuild. I just think they have to
sharpen their tools on the defensive side of the ball.
It starts with effort. If they can show a little
bit more effort, which I think they did this last week,
I think they can win some games, but they're a
long way for being one of the better teams in
the ndup seat Brian Westbrook nine years, two time pro bowler.
(33:21):
You know I said this last night. There's there's four
old quarterbacks in the league. Two of them don't look
like they can really take me to the place I
want to be. Rivers and Brees two of them, Big
Ben Brady can but they're not as special as some
of these young guys. So you know, as you start
looking around this league at quarterback, and Josh Allen is
(33:41):
really good, really fast, and Lamar is really good, really fast,
and oh my god, Joe Burrow's really good, and Justin
Herbert's really good, and then you get a bunch of
guys like Matt Ryan and I'm like, ah, Jimmy Garoppolo,
So let's start with Garoppolo this weekend a mess was
an injury or just Jimmy g struggling? What did you see?
(34:04):
What I saw a quarterback that was struggling. I would
initially think it was because of the injuries. He didn't
seem like he can step into any throws. He didn't
seem confident. I don't know how much practice time he
got in the past week. He just didn't look confident
in any of his throws. He didn't want to know
how to pull the trigger and let the ball go.
And then when he did step into it, a lot
of his throws were sailing all over the place. And
(34:26):
that's why he ends up getting pulled. When you're losing
the amount of games at the forty ninets have lost
this year, and you're supposed to be a good team.
Sometimes when you're injured, you kind of forced yourself to
get back in there when you're really not ready to play.
And I don't think Jimmy Jimmy G was ready to
play this past week, and and that's why Kyle pulled
him out of the game. He'll come back. But again,
(34:46):
Jimmy G wasn't special special last year. He had a
great defense, and he had an offense that knew how
to run the ball. And when you have the ability
to run the ball on anybody, you can get some
play action passes going. And then the throws that you're
making are too wide open receivers in tight ends, and
of course we know what George Kittle can do with
yards after the catch. So when you're talking about an
average quarterback to start, then you add injury to that.
(35:09):
Without that dominant defense, you're seeing what you're seeing for
the San Francisco forty nine ers, and it's not a
very good sight. You know. I was just thinking as
you're talking, it's funny is that Joe Burrow and Justin
Herbert and Josh Allen. Especially Herbert is so good quickly
and Joe Burrow is so competent quickly. It makes me think,
(35:29):
if you're Miami, you put two in in three weeks
and you give him eight nine games and he's just okay.
Do you revisit quarterback in the NFL? Are you gonna
have Justin Fields? I mean, it's funny, Brian, but Justin
Herbert and Joe Burrow are boom. They can play period.
And I got three world class in the Dolphins. By
(35:52):
the way, gonna have Houston's first round pick next year.
They got two of their own picks or they got
one of their own end Houston, so they're gonna have
two top ten potentially. What if Tuoa comes out? Is
it ever happened that your rivals the culture changes. There's
so many special young guys. What if Tua comes in
in place eight games and looks mad? Do you go
(36:12):
get another guy? I don't want to make a joy
get her too upset here it's talking about her Dolphins.
But I think the answer is no. You gotta give
to an opportunity to get used to the league and
they've struggled a little bit with Ryan Fitzpatrick, but of
course when he struggles, he comes back, keeping stronger and
throws the ball. You have to give two an opportunity.
You pick them, you draft them way too high to
(36:34):
be able to say, you know, he struggled at the
end of the year, and now we're not gonna go
with him. Now we're gonna move on. You've done that
too many times in the past. At some point you
got to settle in and say this is our guy
and we're gonna go with him despite some early struggles.
And there's not going to be a bunch of young
quarterbacks that go out there and light the world up
like Joe Barrow and Herbert. There's just doesn't happen every
(36:56):
single year too. And maybe one of those guys. He
may be one of those guys that gets better by
sitting on the bench and watching and coming in in
the second year with all the practice reps, as far
as the off season and OTAs, he's a much better quarterback.
We never know. We won't really know until he gets
that opportunity. But I don't give up win a quarterback
after their first year. I think that would be foolish. Yeah. Finally,
(37:17):
Andy Dalton. Can you win a division with Andy Dalton
at this point in his career, Absolutely, you can win
a division because we've mentioned it earlier. You have all
the weapons. The division is just bad. The NFC East
is absolutely terrible. But more importantly, it's their schedule. It's
the teams that they're going to play. And when you
look at their schedule, you're talking about teams over five hundred.
(37:38):
At this current point, they're only going to play two
more of those teams. That's the Steelers and the Ravens.
All the other teams that they're going to be facing
the Cowboys will be facing are under five hundred. So
I mean when you talk about what does he have
to do, well, he doesn't have to. All he has
to do is not turn the ball over hand, the
ball off to Z, make sure that the receivers touch it.
And if he does that, I think that helps defense
(38:00):
out a little bit too. Get your running game going,
get your defense off the field, and if you could
do that, that helps them win football games. And the
schedule dictate that they don't have a hard road in
front of him. Yeah. No, if he's a distributor, He's
the point guard that passes, not shoots. You go in
a lot of games without receiving Core and Ze. Good stuff,
Brian Westbrook, Love having you on
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