Blazing 5 - Week 1

First, Colin goes over his Blazing 5 picks with RJ Bell of Pregame.com & Fox Sports Radio and RJ tells him which picks the sharps in Vegas agree with. This week's games are:

Browns @ Ravens

Jets @ Bills

Seahawks @ Falcons

Raiders @ panthers

Cowboys @ Rams

Colin also gives a bonus pick not included in his Blazing 5.

Then, Colin talks with Author Jeff Benedict to talk about his new book, 'The Dynasty' which chronicles the New England Patriots going from the NFL's joke to the greatest dynasty we've ever seen. He shares some incredible stories about Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft. He also shares the details about Tom Brady's thumb injury in the 2018 playoffs that you will not believe.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome everybody to our Saturday podcast, and it gets really
good and really lively during the football season. Later we'll
talk to Jeff Bennett, New York Times best selling author
of The Dynasty, the definitive inside story of the Patriots.
It's really good. And before we go to that, though,
we bring in r J. Belpregame dot Com. We do
this every Saturday morning through the football season. Next sixteen

(00:24):
seventeen weeks, talk about my blazing five picks and what
are the sharps in Vegas to they agree or disagree
with them? So first, here is my blazing five. Let's
blaze it up, fired up. It's Collins blazing five. Browns
at a raven I rarely swallow over a touchdown, but
I'm gonna take Baltimore minus seven and a half. Here's

(00:46):
a little interesting thing. Nobody's worse to last fifteen years
than the Browns on opening games. Why because they're always
changing stuff. Oh wait, they change stuff again. It's a
new coaching staff. Cleveland beat Baltimore last year. Okay, Baltimore's
not overlooking Cleveland. Remember last year, Browns went into and

(01:10):
just punch them in the throat and Baltimore's fully aware
of it. Also, not only are the Browns bad in
Week one, they haven't won since two thousand and five.
They're last in wins, point differential, and turnover differential. The
Ravens led the NFL in rushing and I believe their
rushing game will be better. And this is a testament
to John Harball and coaching. Ravens have held their opponents

(01:33):
to ten points or fewer in the last four season openers.
That's what great defensive coaches do all summer. They figure
out that opener. I don't like to swallow a lot
of points, but I'm taking the Ravens big thirty three
to twenty Jets at Bills. I'll take the Jets plus

(01:53):
six and a half. And here's why Josh Allen was
bad last year. He's pretty good against Dallas and that's
the game you watched. But Josh Allen was last in
passing yards, passing, touchdowns, completion percentage, passing rating among quarterbacks
over the last two years with a minimum twenty five starts.
He's been bad. The coaching staff is great. He's not
been good. He wasn't good as last year at Wyoming.

(02:15):
The Bills have scored fewer than twenty points in each
of their last five games last year, including the playoff loss. Now,
I don't like the fact Jamal Adams is gone, but C. J.
Mosey was gone last year. Two six and a half
points when I get the better quarterback, and there's no
question the Jets have upgraded at wide receiver, tied end
an offensive line. Buffalo may win twenty four. Twenty six

(02:38):
and a half is way too many points to give
the Jets. Buffalo weather won't be an issue. They've got
some new personnel on the outside that I think will
be a handful for the Bills. Bills win. Love the
Jets plus six and a half. Seahawks at faulkid like it,
I love it. I'll take Atlanta plus two and a half.

(03:00):
Pick of the Weekend. Falcons played really well last year,
won their last four and they won six of their
last eight to support their coach. He may get fired,
but they like him. And Matt Ryan has figured out
Pete Carroll. They faced each other seven times. Matt Ryan's
five and two, his passer ratings over one hundred sixteen tens,
four picks. Matt Ryan's done really well against Pete carroll

(03:23):
defenses and This is not one of Pete Carroll's great defenses. Also,
for all their issues, Matt Ryan's not the problem. The
offenses in the problem. It was a top five offense
last year playing at home, and they were a top
three passing offense. And remember this, as much as I
love Russell Wilson, it is really hard in the NFL
to go on the road cross country against a Pro

(03:46):
Bowl level quarterback when you Seattle have a significantly worse
offensive line and defensive line. That's hard to do in
the NFL. We're going into a stadium on the road.
We have easily the worst O line in d line
in the game. Atlanta's getting points, Atlanta's gonna win it

(04:07):
twenty four to twenty three. Raiders at Panthers. I know,
I know, I know, I know a bunch of new
stuff for Carolina. But can I just say something, of
course I can. It's my show. Teddy Bridgewater is good.
I'll show you something funny. Best winning percentage is a
starting quarterback in the last five years minimum twenty starts.
Lamar Garoppolo, Brady Mahomes, Teddy Bridgewater that he's sixteen and six,

(04:31):
and he's also has a history of walking into a
playbook and figuring it out. He's got a lot of
college starts, he's got some NFL starts. This is a
guy they inserted into New Orleans last year. He was
ready to go. He does not make mistakes. He's got
a world class running back. I've always thought their wide
receiver who were underrated. The offensive line is good enough,
middle of the pack. Now. Defensively, they're in a rebuild

(04:54):
and they put a lot of their draft picks on
the defensive side. But the Raiders were a bad team
last year. Not just on defense Week twelve on. The
Raiders were bad offensively with all those weapons. It's a
Gruden Derek Carr issue. The Raiders were a bad road
team two and six and lost outscored by ninety points.
Worst road point differenci in the NFL. I don't like

(05:17):
all the change in Carolina, but I'm getting over a
field goal from a quarterback that wins, figures out playbooks,
and has arguably the best running back coach and a
new creative head coach. I'm gonna take Carolina to beat
the raid As twenty eight twenty seven Cowboys at Rams.
I think the Rams were the better team and they're

(05:37):
getting point at home. I'm gonna take Los Angeles plus three.
First of all, the Cowboys only had seven defensive interceptions
last year. Translation, they don't make offenses uncomfortable. They don't.
The Rams O line is healthy, same quarterback, same coach,
same system, same left tackle, same wide receivers, same tight end.
It's a good RAMS team with a super hyper creative

(06:00):
head coach. Sean mcvahan. Season openers. This is what creative
head coaches do. He's three and zero, average thirty six points.
Two of the three wins came by plus twenty points.
Jared Goff, by the way, for all the heat he
gets in the last four weeks, average three hundred thirty
yards passing, second best in the NFL, higher than Mahomes.
Why Cooper Cup Robert Woods good tight ends. By the way,

(06:23):
Cam Akers, rookie running back out of Florida State, has
been the talk of the camp, as has Van Jefferson,
wide receiver from Florida. I think Dallas, if they played
in a month, maybe the better team. But I think
this is continuity. Been a quiet camp. The Rams are healthy.
The walking on eggshell girly thing is gone. I like

(06:45):
the Rams to win this game in their new stadium
twenty eight to twenty seven. A lot of points scored here.
That is my blazing five. And with that. R J Bell,
founder pregame dot Com, also hosts the show Straight out
of Vegas on Fox Sports Radio six to seven Eastern
Twitter account at r J in Vegas. All right, so
here we go, my friend, let's start. I do not,

(07:06):
as you know, I like underdogs generally. If you give
me a competent quarterback and points, I generally like underdogs.
But I'm gonna swallow the points big here. I'm gonna
take the Ravens minus seven and a half. And here's
my reasoning. One of the reasons the Browns the last
fifteen years haven't won an opener, constant change in flux.

(07:28):
What do you know without a preseason, a new coaching staff. Meanwhile,
John Harbaugh last four years has held opponents in openers
to ten or fewer points. Translation in a year with
no preseason, I bring back a veteran staff, a significantly
better quarterback, and I just think the best roster in

(07:50):
the league, the Rare. I'm gonna swallow seven and a half,
maybe eight points and take the Ravens. What do the
wise guys say, well, first to start the year, let's
just say this, as Collins gotten just more and more famous,
more and more successful, I mean, as big of voice
as you can have in sports. It seems like people

(08:11):
love to see you occasionally be proven objectively wrong. So
I'm not going to hold that back, you know, Hollywood
or whatever, with your level now not being held back.
But I do agree on this one agreement. Now there's
value and then there's a good handicap. Now those are
actually sometimes opposite. Your handicap is great, but man, I

(08:34):
hate the value. I mean, I think it's the right side,
but seven and a half, it's over that touchdown. But
here's why I agree with you. Not only has Baltimore
done well defensively to start seasons, but look at last
year's game against the against jackson or yeah Miami, and
it was I was seeing as Jacksonville the tanking team

(08:55):
this year. But the I mean they just killed them.
Why tackling. They didn't want to deal with that physical
pounding that Baltimore is able to give. And if we
saw anything last night or Thursday night, it was tackling
is going to be a problem, yes early, So I
think Lamar Jackson the best running quarterback in the history

(09:16):
of the NFL. They run as much as any team
the history of the NFL, and running seems to be really,
really a good thing to do right now right in
COVID And we know horrorball has probably two or three
more iterations of tweaks where you do this. Eventually, league,
I'm going to do this, and I think the offseason

(09:40):
is when he tinkers with it. We know he does,
and he might have a trick or two if this
game is tight, which could be very meaningful. Quickly on
the Browns. Now, I'm going to say this as a shocker,
I think the Browns come Week ten might be the
tenth best team in football, maybe even the eighth. You

(10:00):
actually look, they took that O line. That was a weakness,
and it's probably going to be a strength, but it's
not calling. I don't think going to be a strength
early in the year because if there's one underrated unit
that needs time to have cohesion, it's O lines. So
teams that have had and your next pick, actually the

(10:21):
Jets is a team that actually has new O line
and in fact five new ones. I think those teams
are gonna really suffer. Browns have a couple of them.
I think that limits them. And they have a new coach,
and in COVID, the changes you make in between seasons
are like doubly tough, and really our handicaps are going

(10:43):
to be focused on that the first four weeks. So
disc or agreement. Baltimore. Okay, I'm gonna take the Jets
plus six and a half at the Bills. Now, if
this was late in the year, it's snowy, you gotta
sold out Bills Mafia, it's different. You're not going to
have a home field advantage, whether it's not an issue
you and I think Josh Allen is highly elevated by

(11:04):
his staff. I think Sam Darnold is flourishing despite his surroundings.
And I also think the Jets are used to playing
without C. J. Mosley. I thought they generated a very
good pass rush last year and again in a game
where the overunder is about thirty nine to forty six
and a half is a lot of points for a
very capable offense. They're good at tight end Lavian Bell,

(11:28):
Sam Darnold, Jamison Crowder. I just think I like Buffalo
to win, but I think it's too many points. I
like the value of the jets. What are the wise
guys say? Disagreement here? And I don't like laying six
and a half. And you make a very sharp point,
And this is one the listeners should think about, is

(11:48):
the more points expected in a game, the less each
point means if you're laying it. Not not that you
want to lay a bunch, but hey, if you're getting
ten in the totals thirty six, you're feeling pretty good.
Now you can't bet that blind, but it's it's a
big factor. Here's what I think is the problem with
the jets. And let me just ask you because and

(12:12):
for new listeners, Colin has you know we've done in
one version or another, this wise guy grading. I think
this is your eight or nine. And I'm telling you
right now, your record over that time is better than
ninety five percent of like professional pick people. Now, not
that I'm not saying the wise guys making the big

(12:34):
money living in the mansions. I'm saying guys that try
to sell picks for a living. You've won I think
everything you might have had a break even or two,
it's been amazing. So I respect the heck out of
your opinion. So let me ask you. The Jets have
five new OH line starters in a year. That's going
to be a huge deal. What do you How concerned
are you about OH? Well, I do think they've upgraded

(12:56):
at center and left tackle. So even though they're new,
they've upgraded in game one. Do you think they're better
than replacement level? Even yes, because I thought they were
horrible last year. Now here's what concerns me with the Jets.
Early to the midpoint in the camp RJ Jets had
a lot of running back and wide receiver Nicks. I

(13:18):
worry about the timing. They had a lot of receivers
in back in the early camp to mid camp miss
a lot of practices. That's where I think O line
did not get hurt. O line is actually according to
the people I follow, really the coaching staff's been really
impressed with their cohesion. But when you're when you miss,

(13:39):
when you have a rookie receiver Mims and you need
him and he misses nine practices, that's an issue. So
I think it's a low scoring game and I just
think six and a half is too much to So,
first off, Jets are thin at receiver to start with, yes, right,
so that's a problem. Now let's be realistic here, what

(14:01):
scenario did we really could we see how the old
line was actually doing, meaning were they going full scrimmage
for an extended period? No? So, I mean and the
fact that you're hearing that means they're worried about Usually
if they say, oh, yeah, that unit's doing real well,
that's cause for concern for that unit. And again could

(14:22):
be wrong, but you, and if I'm not mistaken, you've
made a huge point on this that these linemen are
coming out of college. And I know these aren't all rookies,
but they're coming out of college. They're not able to
run blog. It's taken so long to get mature lineman.
You're seeing lineman thirty five, thirty seven playing a lot
longer than they used to. I just the idea that

(14:44):
in a normal year it's tough to get to line
with cohesion, the idea of a historic amount of switching
and literally the worst year ever for switching game one
big problem quickly one or ten seconds on Buffalo. I
believe the better coaches have even more advantaged with COVID

(15:07):
because there's so many new things to think about McDermott's excellent,
and I think team's on a mission, a sense that
this is our year. And trading for Diggs means Buffalo
believes this is their year. And the fact that they
were competitive to win the division. I think you've got
a super focused Buffalo team. Disagreement. One of my favorite

(15:28):
bets Seattle at the Falcons. I'll take Atlanta plus two
and a half. One. Dan Quinn is a former understudy
on Pete Carroll's staff, and for that reason Matt Ryan
has had great success against Pete Carroll's defense. Is his
passer ratings over one hundred. He's five and two. Similarly, Seattle,
Pete Carroll's known as a teacher. He's very good teaching

(15:50):
young players. Will he better be because he's got a
lot of different moving parts in the secondary now. I
also think as good as Russell Wilson is this maybe
the worst or second worst off and SIF line in
the league. Out East on the road, I like the
way the Falcons played at the end of last year.
I'm gonna take him at home plus two and a half.
One of the wise guys think agreement here, and this

(16:12):
is a very simple handicap and sometimes there's a factor
so big nothing else matters. The weather can be that sometimes, right,
it's gonna be like nine to six no matter what.
You can't lay points. Okay, the Falcons the first half
of the year pre buy were maybe the worst team
in the NFL. I mean, I don't think they were,

(16:34):
but they were close. And the second half of the year.
If you would have just had and I know you're
just guessing in the moment, but if you would have
had a heard hierarchy of just the second half of
the year or just assumed the second half got flipped
and it was the first half, where would Lanta be
at six and two having two big, big upsets double

(16:55):
digits on the road out of those six wins. Well,
they were inspired, their coach was on the seat, and
they played hard, which told me they like the coach.
It's not a coach issue. They like this coaching staff.
And I think that's a big deal. And I do
think I've said this. If you played well at the
end of the last year, or like the Raiders poorly,
I don't think you could. A bad team at the

(17:16):
end of last year hasn't had the games to fix
some of their issues. Similarly, if you were playing good
last year at the end without preseason, there's a good
vibe in the locker room, and I like what Atlanta's
how they're playing at the end of last year. No,
that tougher to turn it around is actually I have
not heard it said that way. That is a very

(17:36):
interesting point. I think we might not be given proper
credit though to one thing with Atlanta, so as I'm
sure you know, is at that break point the bye
is Quinn stopped calling the defense. And what he did
was he actually brought in and they kind of split
the duties to some degree. But that Raheem Morris, who

(17:58):
was on the offense side of the ball, actually started
calling a majority of the defensive calls, and if you
look at their numbers, the defense got like drastically better
and the offense not as much. So to me, it
wasn't oh, they weren't playing hard. I mean, Quinn was
almost a foregone conclusion. He was out. He was the

(18:20):
favorite to be the first guy fired, but betting favor,
so it wasn't fighting. I don't think it was fighting
for his job. I think they made a fundamental change
schematically with a new coach and effectively the defense looks great,
and that's why I like Atlanta because if you actually
look at their second half and grade the team this year,

(18:40):
that way, they're much better than Vegas. Thinks. Vegas is
looking at the whole season as if all the games
were weighted equal. I don't think they should be. Second
half should get priority, which means Atlanta is better, which
means I agree Raiders at the Panthers. Teddy Bridgewater's a
quick learner. I'm going to take Carolina plus three and
a half. Bridgewaters history is you can kind of insert

(19:02):
him anytime anywhere, and he wins a lot of games. Secondly,
the Raiders. We think we liked the Raiders offense. Their
offense was anemic Week twelve on. I think Gruden and
Derek Carr have issues again when you've got strife and
chaos and issues, no OTAs and preseason to fix it.

(19:24):
This is just too many points. I don't know if
the Panthers win, but I just think it's too many points.
I like the value of the home team over a
field goal. With a very capable quarterback that doesn't make mistakes,
they'll run it a lot with McCaffrey. Low scoring Game
one of the wise guys think, okay, disagreement here, and
this is the opposite of the agreement you had with Baltimore.

(19:48):
We didn't have a great line, but I think we
had the right handicap here. You're getting a great line.
Three and a half is as high as it's been.
This thing opened up. Panthers favored by one. I mean,
this is like in June or whatever, but this has
been steady Oakland money. Now I don't think it's as
much about Oakland. But let me quickly make that case,

(20:11):
which is this is an older team and one thing
that I think we've seen is and we've lamented this,
or it might be that fourth or fifth round pick
that would would have made the team, but they're keeping
one extra veteran because with all the uncertainty, they don't
want another concern of teaching this guy where the bus

(20:31):
gets picked up. You know, they just want to keep
continuity these teams. Gruden has done that more than anyone.
And I think it hurts the Raiders later like next year,
or maybe they should have had a young guy that's
on another team now, but this year, I think it
helps them at least early in the year. Now, the
big thing I disagree with you is with the Panthers.

(20:53):
I love what they're doing. In five years, ten years,
this might seem crazy. If we had a draft of
pick a team, You pick a team, I pick a team. Right,
we snaked it and it was just who's gonna win
the number of Super Bowls your team wins over the
next ten years. If I get half the league and
you get half the league, I literally would take Carolina

(21:14):
and maybe seventh or eighth. I'm that optimistic about them
long term because I just love what the owner's doing.
But this year, this game might be the worst situation
any team's been in. You have a head coach that
hasn't coached in the NFL for like six or eight years,
and he was with the Giants like a year or
two Matt Role. You got a defensive coordinator that's never

(21:36):
coached a snap in the NFL, and now he has
a defense with eight new starters out of eleven. And
you have a new quarterback no matter how good he
may be down the road, and you mentioned Bridgewater and saying, oh,
he's always well he won with Sean Payton, and let's
be honest, that was one of the best teams in

(21:57):
the league the Saints, and he did fine, but his
QBR the stats look great. He just was a game
manager at most and the last time he's really played
was pre injury before that. So I'm not saying you're wrong.
I'm saying I don't think the evidence is in yet.
But if there's any team affected by COVID the most,
it's the Panthers. Thus, even though I think the numbers

(22:19):
starting to get juicy, still like the Raiders. My favorite
pick of the week Rams plus three over the Cowboys
Number one is I think it's a coaching mismatch. McVay
is a great opening game coach. Why so's Doug Peterson,
Why so's Andy Reid. Why Because they're creative offensive coaches

(22:40):
who get the yellow pad out during the summer and
throw in some exotics and different looks, and they catch
people off guard. The Rams return their head coach, their
left tackle, their quarterback, they're tight end, they're two top receivers.
It's a lot of continuity here, and they're getting points
at home for a Cowboy team that struggled again. Delete competition.

(23:01):
I think this. I'm surprised I'm getting three points. Favorite
bet of the week, what are the wise guys think
love it, love it, love it. This is gonna be
I think potentially one of those bets that we look
back on in like ten weeks and go, oh man,
I wish we had another one like this one. Not
saying it's gonna even win, but I think we're gonna

(23:21):
see we had the right side. Sometimes you lose and
have the right side right. So I mean, that's what
makes this game tough. Here's why I think so one
And let me ask you, how much do you account
for this Dak stuff? You know that came out end
of the week. Well, I mean he had a very
a lot of news with his off season. There was
a lot of you know, emotional turmoil. So in the

(23:44):
rams maybe in a big city, but they made no news.
It's just continuity, same old. I think Dallas had a
I think Dak had a tough off season, no doubt.
But the fact that if we were to asked that
question on Tuesday, it would have been like, yeah, obviously
with the fan, you know, brother and all that tough,
but hey, if anything, football can be a distraction. You know,

(24:06):
I don't think we would have even been taught. In fact,
I know we wouldn't have been talking about DAK and
the distractions so much now that he's saying, not only
is this contract a big deal, I'm you know, mental
health questions. I mean, and I'm not saying that in
any negative way as much as in a sympathetic way.
And you got to account for that. But then you

(24:27):
think about McCarthy, however good he is or isn't, and
Aaron Rodgers is like on the other side of that coin.
It's almost like you can't like both of them, which
I think maybe you can't, right because they're diametrically opposed
in some ways, because someone has to be blamed for
Green Bay relatively underperforming all those years, and they did.
If you have one of the best quarterbacks of all time,

(24:47):
you're supposed to make more than one Super Bowl and
they didn't. But Dallas did keep the OC. But is
that good or bad? See I don't I don't understand
because maybe there's conflict. Who knows. But this is what
I know about the Rams. This is their last chance.
Bill Simmons actually picked the Rams. I think this is crazy,

(25:08):
but it goes to show you that if you look
at him at a certain angle, he picked the Rams
to be the number one seed in the NFC. I
don't think it's nuts. I don't think I think their
receiving corps if you told me quarterback tight end receiving corps.
I think it's one of the best groupings in an
increasingly offensive league. No, I hear you. And supposedly the

(25:29):
way Phillips, you know, being jettisoned is an upgrade and
at least there's gonna be some youth and vigor in there.
And one thing I read in the offseason just struck me.
And if you just read, you sometimes catch stuff you
don't even know why it matters. Is there? This is
pre covid Colin is the Rams. Literally, we're not sending
either coordinator both of them knew or McVeigh to the combine,

(25:54):
which is almost unheard of. They were so hunkered down
and working and they're trying to turn this thing around
because they know this is the season because after this
year and the Ramsey contract just finalized it they're in
cap hell after this year. If they're going to do anything,
it's this year. But everyone feels like they're already writing

(26:16):
the epilogue on the Rams. But the question is other
than girly and some dead money there. What really is
different about this team than it would have been last
year when entering the year they were one of the
Super Bowl favorites. After almost winning the Super Bowl, the
old line's gotten older. I get it. I don't think
they're is good, but they're within shouting distance. And this

(26:37):
is saying Dallas is like five points better. Home field
hears about one and a half or two instead of three.
So if Dallas is laying three, they're like four and
a half points better. I think that's impossible. Love the Rams. Finally, briefly,
I knew a bonus pick. I didn't put this in
the Blazing five, but I considered it. I'd take Miami
plus six and a half of the Patriots. Fitzpatrick's a

(26:59):
very good step timber quarterback. I think the eight opt
outs for New England are significant. Some of those players
were vital, they lost key free agents, and Cam hasn't
frankly had enough snaps at practice. I think I'd take
the Dolphins plus six and a half, but the number
tells me I'm wrong. What do the wise guys say? Well,
I got to do this first, because this is one

(27:20):
of the joys of getting to do this show, and
it really is when I'm screaming at the radio all
the time, and you know, we talk off air occasionally,
but I don't bother. I don't call you and say calling,
I got a problem with one of your takes, right, yeah,
So I finally get occasionally to say it. Do you
really believe the Patriots take you've got? Oh? Absolutely, I

(27:41):
think they're restructuring. They're a five win team. So if
I give you two to one odds, would you beat
five thousand on it? Because I'm five thousand to win
ten thousand. Okay, let's change it to six and ten,
six and ten. What do you well? You just are
laying more money. I'm saying you beat five thousand to
win ten five thousands a lot of money. I'm a

(28:03):
working man. You want to do a thousand to win
two thousand? Yes? All right? So the over under you
said it's gonna be five. Yes, So we'll make our
over and under five and a half. All right, I'm
gonna take the under. Yeah. So if it's five wins,
like you said, you win, I owe you two thousand bucks.
And and if it's six or more, you owe me
a thousand that's very I feel very good about as

(28:25):
a working man. I like those on Now you've been
at low enough that you had to take it. I
just got a great bat and listen, I love it's
just I love that it's a take no one else has.
It's just I guess my question is when has Belichick
ever not try to win? Because when think about it,
when when um uh bletsoe went down way back when

(28:51):
remember they were owing two after that game, Brady who
was a six hround pick two years you know, the
year prior was coming in who in a heck thought
could win the Super Bowl? But did he give up?
I just don't see when they would give up. He's
ever given when to rich guys try to lose money
when they need a tax right off? Yea, So Belichick

(29:11):
needs a quarterback because you can't win in this league
without one, and there's three great college quarterbacks, then why
sign came at all? Actually because he'll share snaps with Stidham,
Neither he'll get the proper snaps and they'll both be mediocre.
So you think, actually this platooning is he's actually sabotaging

(29:32):
his own nuts, sabotaging I think Bill has a plan
for having scrambled eggs in the morning. The idea that
he's just making it up. Ad opt out, doesn't resign
free agents. Bill's got a plan. Yeah, so, because you're
smart enough to know the aggregators or to grabb that one,
you dodged it. I won't press it. But you just

(29:53):
really just repeated the same thing of saying that, hey,
it is a sabotage. I don't want to use that word,
but it's a plan which doesn't change as a sabotage.
So anyway, quickly and I can do this in thirty seconds.
I believe if there's ever a time, you're going to
hear the announcers say, wow, what a gadget play there. Belichick,

(30:14):
for the first time in twenty years, has a new quarterback,
and one with a different skill set and their ability
to do things that Miami has no idea about. I
think is the difference in this game. Forgetting the fact
that Miami he's getting so much love Peter King saying
they're gonna win the division. I look at Miami the
same way I do Carolina. Great midterm future, not ready now,

(30:37):
it's less than a touchdown this game, Pats is the
side disagreement. Good stuff. RJ. Bell. So good to be
back trying to make America's mortgage payment. If not, it's
just for fun, gambling, spreading across America. It's are kind
of America. RJ. Good talking to you. You're doing your part, Carlin,

(30:59):
thank you. My next guest on our Saturday podcast is
Jeff Benedict, author of his latest masterpiece called The Dynasty.
The last time I read him, he was a co
author of Tiger Woods with my friend Armand Coultay in
a couple of years back. That is a must read
as well. He's also been the author of Quarterback, My

(31:19):
Life Behind the Spiral. Steve Young recommend that written years
ago as well. But it's The Dynasty and the detailed
in depth analysis and information that is quite something. And
Jeff Benedict is now joining us. Let me start with this.
When you write a book, obviously, and this just jumps
right off the pages, you need trust, you need information.

(31:44):
And I was not shocked but surprise in the level
of detail of Robert Kraft and the quotes and his
willingness to really allow you to go to some pretty
painful places. Were you Ris, How did you either Curry
favor or create that trust with Bob Kraft. I don't

(32:09):
know if I was surprised Colin. I tried not to
think about that too much when it's happening. Meaning I
pinched myself a lot working on this project because I
just felt so fortunate to be doing something that I
knew was an incredibly unique opportunity. And in terms of
building trust, I tried to do that just by being

(32:31):
around a lot early on in the project, really before
I started doing interviews, I spent a lot of time
around the organization, trying to get to know people, trying
to get to know Robert Kraft. My first few sessions
with him, I wouldn't consider them interviews because these were
more like conversations. I wasn't the information that he was

(32:56):
sharing with me. I didn't treat it as information that
was sort of fair game for inclusion in a book
at that point in my mind that he was just
trying to figure out is this something that that I
would be able to do, and what kind of person
is he? Who is he? And I think him sort
of getting to know me a little bit as well,

(33:16):
And I considered him calling to me the most important
person in the story because he's the one that we
know the least about amongst the big three Craft and
excuse me, Belichick and Brady being the other two. So
I spent more time trying to develop and understand his
role in the dynasty from the formative years on to

(33:38):
the present. Jeff. I think for somebody maybe that did not,
you know, in their twenties or early thirties, Jeff, they
forget what a mess this organization was. And I don't
want to give too much away, but at one point
I was reading the book and laughing. You know, we

(33:59):
tend to forget how difficult the struggle is. Give give
our listeners just some sense though, of what a mess
the Patriots were pre Bob Kraft. They were the most
dysfunctional organization in the National Football League, both on the
field and off. They were perennial losers on the field,

(34:23):
and from a financial and management standpoint, they were like
a dumpster fire. And I think that the league was
worn out with the financial problems because they were repeatedly
having to bail them out so just so the team
could make payroll, yeah, and things of that nature. The
stadium went into bankruptcy. It was as it was a

(34:45):
bad stadium. Yeah, it was a bad stadium, and the
management of the team was I mean they went through,
you know, a series of ownership changes like rapid fire.
It went from the Sullivans to Victor Kaiam and then
it went from Victor I Am to James Orthwine, and
then Orthwine was getting ready to move the team to
Saint Louis. It got to the point with Paul tagleybou

(35:07):
that he was spending more time dealing with management and
sexual harassment allegations in the locker room and just it
was just one thing after the other. Jeff Benedict joining us,
author of The Dynasty. I'm just wrapping it up. Read
it last night as I was watching some NBA playoffs
in the background. A lot of details. This is a

(35:28):
deep dive, and I want to stay on craft because
so Robert Kraft initially owned the parking lot before that
was kind of his device, his way of getting in.
Then he gets the team and again we forget this.
It was not easy for him initially. Pre Belichick, you
had the Pete Carroll years where they were good but

(35:49):
getting worse. There was Bill Parcells. I want to go
into the Parcels relationship I've always been a fan of Parcels,
but I didn't find him entirely likable in this book.
Was Parcels perhaps a bit more dysfunctional than the football

(36:10):
media has reported because the big Tuna he is revered.
He's kind of on that Rushmore group. But as I
read your book, I thought to myself, Bill Parcels was
a pain in the bot. Is that fair? I wouldn't
call him his functional. I think he was very functional
because his record his records too good to consider him dysfunctional.

(36:33):
I think that what you see in the book is
his coaching style. I don't think his style changed from
New York to New England. You got the same guy
and he had this big, outsize personality. I think what
happened in Foxboro, though, that was different, is that when
Robert Kraft buys the team, he inherits Parcels. Parcels has
been there for one year and probably the most important

(36:56):
thing he did in that first year was he drafted
Drew Bledsoe. So Craft buys a team and inherits a
great coach and a great budding quarterback. But Craft is
coming in at a time when the NFL is going
through a major transformation because they have now brought in
free agency, which is brand new, and they've introduced a
salary cap, and those are two big sea changes in

(37:20):
the way the game is going to be coached and managed.
And these are new concepts for Parcels. I see Parcels
as the old guard and I see Craft as the
new guard. And they meet each other at a crossroads
in the NFL. So you have this old style of
running and coaching football with this new style. Craft is

(37:42):
young at that time. His son is, of course even
much younger, and they are all about the salary cap,
free agency management, trying to get the team under budget
and get their financial house in order. Because he's just
spent more money than anyone has ever spent in the
history of the NFL to buy the worst team in
the league. And so Parcels has this, you know, history

(38:07):
of spending money on free agents, giving them four year deals,
a lot of them don't work out. He's free wheeling
on that side of it, and Craft is trying to
be disciplined financially, and there's a clash of cultures, and
I think it sets off this great drama that plays
out between them over the next three years. It's really

(38:27):
fascinating to go back. You know, you forget little details
of it as it played out publicly. Jeff Benedict, the
author of The Dynasty. I think, folks, if you love
football like I do, and love parcels, you'll just eat
up these stories of how really difficult it was. They
were winning games, and then Pete Carroll comes in. He's fine,

(38:48):
but he's a little soft. You know, I kind of
felt with the Pete Carroll hire. And I've worked in
enough newsrooms in my life where the pendulum swings. You
have the gruff guy, and then you hire the likable guy,
and then after a few years with the likable guy,
you're like, you know, there were some things about the
gruff guy we liked, so Pete Carroll, a little soft
pro player doesn't work. Now we move into the Belichick stage,

(39:09):
and you know, people can forget that it was not
all rosy. It was the end of Drew Bledsoe and
it's the beginning of Belichick. So let's go back to
the first year, Jeff, of that relationship and bring people
back into you know, we think about the twenty year dynasty,
but it was tenuous. They were going into the second year,

(39:32):
and they got off to a bad start. Oh they
really did. I mean, And we also have to remember
that Craft received overwhelming advice, much of it unsolicited, by
the way, from around the league, from the league office
to fellow owners who were all telling him the same thing.
Don't make the mistake of hiring Bill Belichick, right, It'll

(39:56):
be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life.
If you I think Parcels was difficult, way do you
get this guy? I remember, I remember a Sports Illustrated
article Belichick was very rarely do you get a grumpy, difficult,
losing coach? I mean it was I remember those days,
and your book points it out. There was a lot

(40:17):
of pushback on Belichick, a tremendous amount, and you know craft,
Craft makes a fairly bold move in selecting him as
the coach. But the thing was, he really wanted to
do it three years earlier when he hired Carol. His
gut was telling him this guy is the guy, but
his heart was telling him that he couldn't trust him

(40:39):
because of his close connection to Parcel For the next
three years, he regrets that he didn't do it then,
and it becomes all about how do I get him?
How do I get him here? I think it's interesting
when when Belichick gets there, the expectations are low because
everybody thinks it is a mistake. But I loved one.

(40:59):
While working on this book. One day when I was
in Craft's office, I was looking at all the pictures
on the wall and things that are hanging there, and
I saw this picture of Ted Williams and Babe Ruth,
which I've seen before. It's a famous photograph. It wasn't
that that caught my eye. It was the handwritten note
under it that said, Robert, thanks for giving me the

(41:22):
opportunity to coach your team. Let's hope we will be
as successful as these two fellas Bill, and I thought, wow,
Like Belichick wrote this handwritten note to Craft and gave
him this picture of Ted Williams and Babe Ruth on
September third, two thousand, which was the morning of the
first game that Belichick coached in Foxboro against Tampa Bay.

(41:45):
They lost that game, and then they lost the next game,
and the next game and the next game. I mean,
his start in New England was ugly, and his first
season finished five and eleven. It was not a good
time in Foxboro. For anybody. And that's the same year
they drafted Brady, who, of course didn't play at all

(42:06):
that first year. He was the fourth string quarterback, relegated
to the practice squad. But that's the scene in Foxboro
heading into the two thousand and one season when everything changes.
It's a fascinating read and it just grabbed you as
a reader. I'm not going to give away the Bledsoe
story to start, it's too good. I want to stay

(42:27):
on more topical stuff, but there it starts with a
Drew Bledsoe story that I had never heard, and I
know Drew, so it's so let's go into drafting Tom Brady.
How close did they get to not drafting Brady? Well,
I think they were close all the time because a

(42:49):
quarterback was the absolute last thing that the Patriots needed
when Belichick took over the team in two thousand. They
needed help at every position on the roster except quarterback.
And so when they looked at all the players on
the board, while they rated Brady high in terms of need,

(43:09):
he was the lowest because they didn't need a quarterback.
But what happened with them? And this answer is really
the question calling about. People say, well, if Belichick was
so smart and he thought Brady was so great. Why
did he wait until one hundred and ninety nine? What
was a real simple answer for that, They didn't need
a quarterback. And so as time wore on in the
draft and he Belichick keeps seeing him. There's this great

(43:32):
scene that actually played out repeatedly in the war room,
which was Belichick looking at his staff and basically asking,
sort of philosophically, why is he still on the board.
And he kept doing it as the rounds went on
and on, and finally I think Belichick just decided there
was too much value there, even though they didn't need him,

(43:52):
to allow him to just sit there. So we took him.
And I think the thing he noticed the most, and
that was he was most attracted to, would break it.
Obviously wasn't his foot speed, It wasn't his arm strength
or any of that. It was that when he scouted Brady,
what he noticed was when Michigan was behind and when
the clock was running out, Brady played his best football.

(44:16):
And in Belichick's mind, that's an intangible that you can't
teach a quarterback, and very few, even very few pro
quarterbacks possessed that ability. It seemed inherent in Brady. That
proved to be true when Brady finally got to play
OH one and he demonstrated over and over again that
he was just incredibly cool under pressure and that quality

(44:40):
was everything to Belichick. Jeff Benedict, the author of The Dynasty,
also co author of The Magnificent Tiger Woods with armand Kitaan.
We remember the last few years and the tension with
Brady and Belichick. Tom Verus time the documentary where Zelle
famously said he just wants to go to work and

(45:01):
feel respected. Let's go back to the beginning stages where
Brady sort of bailed out Belichick who was losing, and
Belichick significantly elevated Tom Brady's stature in life. Were the
first in the first super Bowl, the first four or
five years. Was the relationship more fatherly? Was it closer

(45:24):
or has there always been a I'm the coach, you're
the quarterback relationship. I don't think it was ever fatherly.
You know, maybe the closest that you get to fatherly
is perhaps the morning after the very first super Bowl,

(45:47):
and basically, you know, Belichick and Brady that night after
the super Bowl. There's this great scene in Belichick's hotel room,
where Brady comes down there and basically asks permission if
it's okay for him to not fly back with the
team so he can go to Disney World and do

(46:08):
his thing because he's the MVP, and and Belichick's kind
of like, of course, it's okay, Like how many times
do you get to go to the Super Bowl? And
there's that kind of thing. And you also have Belichick
sort of coaching him a little bit about how his
life is about to change and congratulating him for doing
a good job and things of that nature. But I

(46:28):
wouldn't describe those moments as fatherly. I think it's more mentor.
He's certainly doing some mentoring there, And you're right, there's
a they both rely on each other immensely. That first year,
Belichick basically staked his future if Brady doesn't perform and
things go south. That year, Belichick has completely opened himself

(46:51):
up for massive criticism because he didn't play the starter,
the superstar starter who was sitting there holding a clipboard.
So he he hitches his wagon to Brady, and I
think Brady in return, certainly recognizes that and appreciates the
fact that the coach has placed a tremendous amount of
trust and confidence in him, and he delivers. And so

(47:14):
that's the formation of their relationship. And over time, certainly
in the early years as they rack up three super
Bowls in four years, that's what it's all about. But
there's a there's an interesting change in OH five when
they've won the successive Super Bowls and Tom has emerged
as this superstar in the new face of the NFL,

(47:37):
the young Gun, and Belichick seems to work harder at
that point to constantly remind him that he is going
to be treated just like everyone else, calling him Johnny
Foxborough in front of the team and be rating him
actually in practices and meetings. And then that will go
on for years and years and years, and of course

(47:59):
became more. It grades on you more as time goes on.
You interviewed Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick, and Tom Rady in
the book. Kraft really let a lot of himself out.
From what I can tell, Belichick is notoriously private. Do

(48:21):
you think he ever regrets not rigidity, but some of
his dealings with Tom, and that I saw it was
funny his last year Brady in New England. Belichick gave
him the game ball and it was so damn uncomfortable.
Do do you think Belichick not that he would ever
lack self awareness, but but has ever looked back and thought,

(48:42):
you know, I was rough on Tom. You know, especially
today Brady informs Belichick and Craft he's going to Tampa.
Do you think Belichick thinks that way looking back briefly
in the rearview mirror. I don't know, honestly what he
thinks now about that, And I would be reluctant to
speculate on something in Bill's head like that. But what

(49:05):
I'm more interested in, Colin, is what Coach Belichick thinks
about Tom ten years from now. Because people do change
with distance. People that have been in very close relationships, marriages,
partnerships where there's a level of intimacy in a relationship.
This relationship has all that, And certainly we saw like

(49:27):
it was a softening in Paul McCartney as as he
got further away from the Beatles and looked back at
his relationship with Lennon. You could see a softening and
a change from where they were when they broke up,
when there was so much friction and tension. And so
I'm interested to see where they how they feel about
each other a decade from now, because they've just gone

(49:48):
through this remarkable run as a partnership coaching quarterback that
ran twenty years, and they worked their way through a
lot of incredibly stressful situations, and you know, I think
there's a lot to be appreciated because the fact is,
I think Craft is right. He never looked at one
of them as more responsible than the other for the dynasty.

(50:10):
I think he always saw them as equal contributors and
how important it was to have both of them, to
keep them married, to keep the two stars on the
same stage. That to me is the genius of Craft. Yeah. Well,
and then as Tom ages, Jimmy Garoppolo gets drafted and
it was the highest draft spot bill ever for a quarterback.

(50:33):
It was second round, and I thought the tension not palpable,
but I thought it was a layment. As somebody like me,
a sportscaster, I thought it was pretty clear Jimmy g
is a little stronger than Tom. He's got the rock solid.
You know, he's this good looking kid, and he's youthful,
and I thought it was fairly obvious that you know,
as you age, if some young sportscaster walked into Fox.

(50:55):
You know, the little insecurity. The vulnerability is fairly palpable,
but Belichick had to go there. This is a business.
Bob Kraft had to go there. Do you think at
the end, before Jimmy G moved to San Francisco, if
you could share with us, do you think there was
moments of tension and perhaps insecurity on Tom's part as

(51:18):
he aged as a quarterback. Well, first of all, I
think this is a great question, and I love this
part of the story. And I'll tell you that I
really benefited from having written Steve Young's biography because this
situation to me with Tom and Jimmy G is so
analogous to when Steve Young arrived in San Francisco and

(51:40):
he was playing behind the king, Joe Montana, who built
the dynasty in San Francisco, and the feeling was at
the time Bill Walsh was convinced that Montana was at
the end and he had to bring someone in to
replace him, and that was going to be the younger,
more athletic, stronger Steve Young. What it did, though, and

(52:02):
which is turned out to make Walsh look like a genius,
was that the arrival of Young scared Montana, but it
also infused him and Joe Montana had two of the
best seasons of his life after Young arrived. I mean,
it was as if he was rejuvenated with some youthful serum,

(52:26):
and he went crazy in eighty eight eighty nine. I mean, though,
the statistics and performance that he put up in those
years while Steve Young was riding the bench holding a
clipboard was phenomenal. And I remember having long conversations with
Steve about this and with Carmen Policy, who was part
of the deal making process to bring Steve in. I

(52:47):
thought a lot about that, and I even talked to
Steve about it while I was working on this Patriot's book,
because you see a similar thing when Garoppolo arrives. I mean,
if you look at Tom Brady's performance and protect productivity
post the arrival of Garoppolo, it's phenomenal. Yes, I mean,
the run that he goes on is just it's unprecedented,

(53:10):
particularly for his age. I mean, Montana started to tail
off after those couple of incredible years. Tom really never
did that, and I mean, and I think it got
to the point after having Garoppolo there for four years
when it became clear that Tom's not done. I mean,
and you can't keep both of them on the roster.
Just like the forty nine ers ultimately realized they couldn't

(53:32):
keep Montana and Steve on the roster. The difference was
they chose to keep Steve, whereas the Patriots ended up
keeping Tom. And by the way, many speculated there that
creates a fissure between Craft and Belichick. But Bob Bill
Parcel's famously says, you know, if I'm going to cook
the meal, I get to choose the groceries, and kraftlet

(53:54):
Belichick run the football operations. But there is a sense
that was the one moment that Bob Kraft said, you know,
Tom's almost a son. We have to move Garoppolo. Do
you think in that moment it was never the same,
not that it was distrust Jeff Benedict joining us, but
it was that that little Parcels moment, that that moment

(54:16):
where Belichick thought, Okay, this is not where we go.
We're being sentimental, We're falling into, you know, the romance
of the sport. Do you think moving Jimmy g there's
harboring resentment my Belichick that perhaps that fissure was never healed.
If that's the case, I didn't get the sense of that.

(54:37):
And one of the things that I really appreciated and
I thought was most illuminating about my my interaction with Belichick, which,
by the way, my interview with him, if you want
to refer to it as that was I put all
my questions to him in writing, and he responded to
all those questions in writing. And when he talked about

(55:02):
his professional relationship with Craft, I think it goes right
to the heart of this question. It really demonstrated to
me the difference of the Belichick Craft relationship and the
Parcels Craft relationship. Parcels never accepted the fact that this
was Robert Kraft's team and that ultimately he's the owner.

(55:22):
That never set well with Parcels, whereas when Belichick came in,
he understood and bought into that from day one. Now
that relationship has obviously evolved over time and matured and
become it's deepened, but that core principle has never changed
for Belichick, and he respects that. And I think that's

(55:44):
what I really took from some of his written answers
where he talked about the fact that Craft and I
haven't always agreed on every decision. Sometimes we disagree, but
when we do, I understand that ultimately this is his team.
To me, that's a sort of a profound insight into
how this relationship how and why it works so well. Now,

(56:09):
Kraft never abuses that element of it. He gives Belichick
a tremendous amount of latitude and discretion, way more than
he gave Parcels. And so I think here, as I
say in the book, he never told Belichick that he
had to move on from Garoppolo. There was no edict

(56:30):
from the owner to the coach about that. I think
it was the way that I described it in the book.
There was an understanding and they knew. And I think
that what Belichick did, which he kept Garoppolo around for
as long as he could, which was somewhat of a gamble,
because if they had moved on from Garoppolo sooner, you

(56:52):
could argue they could have got more for him, and
that's true. But there's a foot side to that is
what if something happens to he is that much older,
What if he does get hurt, we have Garoppolo still here.
And so that was a calculated risk that Belichick took.
I happen to think it was smart, and when it
became clear at the wire that now it's now, you know,

(57:15):
I've got to make a decision now. And finally he
makes the trade to San Francisco. Yeah, they got less
for him, but they had the biggest insurance policy in
the league for three and a half years, and you've
got to now live with the outcome of that. Jeff
Benedict is the author of The Dynasty, Special features writers,
Sports Illustrated, LA and New York Times. Other books. Tiger

(57:37):
Woods with armand Catan is really special. There's so many
stories in this book that I always feel like when
I interview an author, I don't want to give too
much away, but I want to give you a taste
of some of the interesting details, and I think it's
kind of fascinating. You know, Brady before the AFC title
game in twenty eighteen against it was Jacksonville and Tom Brady,

(58:02):
we had heard about an injury and then after the
game we actually saw it, Jeff, and it was a
tremendous gash. Let's go back to the hand surgery right
before the AFC title game. You have some specific details
about that. Yeah, this was to me one of the
more compelling moments in the whole story. And everybody knows

(58:29):
that Tom hurt his hand, But when doctor Liebman, who's
the hand surgeon, hand specialist for the Bruins, the Patriots
and Red Sox, when he showed up at the stadium
right after this happened and pulled the towel back from
Tom's hand to look at the injury. He could see
to Tom's bone. I mean, that's how deep this gash was. Now,

(58:53):
this was described publicly as a minor incident, minor injury
that required four stitches. That the truth was it required
twenty five suitures to close, and it was a The
depth of it was, you know, it was shocking to
the doctor, and Tom thought his career was over in
that moment. And the doctor who's worked on a lot

(59:16):
of athletes didn't fathom the idea that Tom Brady would
play in four days. And so there's there's a moment
after you know, Belichick's in the room, Guerrero's in the room,
Tom's you know, body coach, the other team, doctors. There's
a lot of tension in the room as the surgeon
is looking at the hand and really realizing the significance

(59:37):
of what happened. After they all clear out and the
doctor does the procedure and he's assisted by the team
and the other team doctor Rex Burkhead comes in and
Rex Burkhead was the running back who collided with Tom
and caused the rupture, and burkeheads in tears. I mean
it's he feels like this is all his fault and

(59:58):
they now lost the orterback for the playoff game, and
he's in tears, and there's a great moment where Tom
is basically trying to tell him it's not your fault,
and it's you know, it doesn't blame him. He says
to him, it's not your fault, and he says, don't worry,
and then he tells him I love you, and it's
a direct quote. It's a great insight into who Brady

(01:00:20):
is right now. He's gone from I think my career
is over to now trying to provide some solace to
a teammate who's blaming himself. And then if you fast
forward just four days, it's now the day of the
AFC Championship game. And this is for me, probably my
favorite scene in this chapter. It's this sequence where the
Patriots have asked doctor Leeman to be on the sideline

(01:00:42):
for the AFC Championship. Give Normally they wouldn't have the
hand surgeon there, but in this case there's a lot
of concern that Tom's injury the stitches are going to
rupture during the game, and so they want the surgeon
there in case that happens. And right before the game,
we're talking minutes before the kickoff, when the whole team
is out on the field and the game is about
to start. The surgeon's in the back room at the

(01:01:03):
stadium getting his instruments ready in case he has to
use them, and in walks Brady in full uniform, closes
the door, turns down the blinds, sits down at the
training table, stretches out his arm and asks the doctor
to snip off basically the heads of all the stitches
because he doesn't like the feel of the little stitch

(01:01:24):
knots pushing against his bandage when he grips the football,
and the doctor is like, going, there's no way. You know.
He's looking at him like Tom, don't He says, I
don't want to touch these suitures, and Tom is basically saying,
you gotta do it. You got to do it, and
he keeps saying I don't want to, and finally he
realizes he's going to lose the argument, so he snips off,

(01:01:44):
one by one little millimeters of the sutures on the wound,
and then he redresses the wound. Brady stands up, grips
the football and tell him he feels better and says
thanks buddy, and the doctor says good luck, and then
Tom walks out, his cleats kind of click clacking on
the concrete as he heads out to the field. It's

(01:02:05):
this incredible insight into who Brady is and the fact
that nobody knew that story and that after the game,
after this miraculous performance where Brady leads him in the comeback,
and when Belichick's asked about all this and he's being
pressed to say something about sort of Brady's bravery, he's like,
you know, he says, Tom did a great job and

(01:02:26):
he's a tough guy. We all know that, all right,
But we're not talking about open heart surgery here. To me,
I was thinking, to me, I thought, yeah, we're talking
about open hand surgery here, Like this is a big deal. Yeah,
And so there's so much about that that whole episode
that I think is illuminating to where things were at

(01:02:47):
that point in time. The Patriots under Belichick are obviously
very covert, known for their secrecy. Some of it from
time to time gets out. We're in the information age.
Everything gets out, you know. In this book, you've got transcripts, recordings, documents, emails.
A lot of people will look back at this dynasty

(01:03:09):
and they they'll use the word cheat, manipulate. You're all
done with a book. What is the word to address spygate,
deflate gate? What is the word to describe the critic
of this dynasty? I would use the word envy. And

(01:03:34):
that's why I have a chapter called The Envy of
the League. There's so much in that. And as you know,
I delve deeply into all of these scandals, all of them. Hey,
I go right into them, you know, I don't go
around them. I go through them. And that's in fact
what the team did. And I felt as a writer
that I needed to take the same approach. I needed

(01:03:55):
to delve right into these and look at them. And
I think, you know where I came down at the
end of the day, is Spygate was real. I think
in context, the reason the league put out a memo
heading into the two thousand and seven seasons telling teams
to knock it off. It is because everybody was doing it. Yeah,

(01:04:16):
what the Patriots got caught doing, everybody was doing. That's
why the league was so concerned about it. That's why
a memo went out, and it was a prominent problem.
And shortly after the memo went out, the Jets accused
the Patriots of still doing it. And the Patriots got
caught and they paid for it, you know, And actually

(01:04:38):
how they paid for it wasn't in the record breaking
fines that were issued by the league, and those were
huge fines, but how they really paid for it was
a reputation was marred, It got a mark on it,
and so it made it easier a few months, not months.
But you know, later down the road, when they're getting

(01:05:02):
ready to play the Giants in the Super Bowl, people,
someone's accusing them now of Oh, way back in the
first Super Bowl against the Rams, they did the same thing.
They taped the Rams walk through. Well, that turned out
to be a fabricated, made up story, completely untrue, unlike
the spygate Jets game where it actually happened. The Rams

(01:05:26):
Super Bowl story never happened. It was made up. That
story is actually way more damaging to the Patriots than
the Jets story, and it's the one that people talk
about more today than they do the Jets. It was
believable to people because they did it in the Jets game,
but it proved to be false. And that was proven

(01:05:47):
because the Boston Herald that wrote that you know, allegation,
later admitted that they had it wrong, it didn't happen,
and they apologize. Most people in America never saw that apology.
So by the time you get to deflay gate, I
think if it wasn't for Spygate, deflate Gate never would
have amounted to what it became, which was a national

(01:06:08):
story about you know, air pressure in football's that the
league was unable to prove. Interestingly, Colin, we know now
that the standard of proof for proving cheating changed from
Spygate n O. Seven to deflate Gate in fourteen. In
other words, the league changed its standard of evidence, and

(01:06:28):
so instead of having to prove, you know, with convincing,
clear and convincing evidence that this happened that was the
Spygate standard, it became a preponderance of the evidence in deflatekate,
meaning just more likely than not, fifty one percent more
likely than forty nine percent was enough. And I think
they didn't even meet that burden here because they never

(01:06:50):
produced a smoking gun that any of this had happened.
But nonetheless, Brady was held to a higher standard because
of Spygate. And you know, I think that you got
to put it all in context. If they were not
a great team, that just simply one much more often
than everybody thought they could or should. I think the

(01:07:13):
deflate gate thing just is it just isn't a big deal,
but it becomes a momentous deal because of two things.
They had been caught once before, and they just kept
on winning. Yeah, Jeff Benedict, author of The Dynasty, he
confronts all of these deep dive on all of them.
Don't want to give away too much because, as you're

(01:07:36):
telling from our interview, there's just copious details here. And
for I lived in Connecticut for eleven years, and I
watched preseason games and had many friends that were season
ticket holders. And it's a it's a it really is.
It's the story of Microsoft, it's the story of Starbucks,
It's the story of a great corporation. It almost feels

(01:07:57):
some it's a relationship book, it's a football book, it's
a business book. The Drew Bledsoe story is nuts. Before
we go, I asked this, Jeff, of many guests on
the show, when you make a big decision in your life,
I've always told my kids, get a yellow pad right
down the pros and cons. Look at the words consume him,

(01:08:18):
sleep on him. Do you believe an epiphany, a moment?
Because Tom Brady it did sound like decided before he
left he was going to leave. And I think in
most cases people get a divorce, they get a divorce
a year and a half before they get a divorce.
As you look back, the book is finished. A breaking point,

(01:08:38):
an epiphany, a drive to work. When I watched that documentary,
I thought, boy, if he allowed Giselle to say he
wants to feel respected, he allowed that edit in the documentary,
and to me, that was the beginning of the end.
Do you believe that's oversimplification or was there a moment
as you're researching this and right this book you feel like, yeah,

(01:09:01):
there's a tipping point here and here's where it's at.
Um Colin, that's a that's a really difficult question for
me to answer, only because I saw so there's so
many points along the way where you see the building.
I mean, I think that Alex Guerrero is a really

(01:09:24):
important figure in this whole episode odyssey because he is
so critical to Tom Brady's success in the latter half
of the dynasty, those last three Super Bowls. In my opinion,
you know, look, Tom Brady's effort in the Seahawks game
and in the Falcons game are just they're over the top.

(01:09:46):
And you know, Tom is adamant, and I think he's
right that Alex Guerrero is so critical to him performing
the way he performs and at his age, and I
think he was always undervalued, you know, certainly with coach Belichick.
It became a huge pain in his neck. You have
all these other players that see what's happening with Tom

(01:10:08):
who want to participate in that as well. So you
have guys like Gronkowski and Edelman and the best players
on the team gravitating towards Guerrero because they want his
help as well. It's when he gets basically kicked off
the sideline and suspended from traveling with the team, It's like,
you know, he is part of Tom, so in a way,

(01:10:30):
it's like doing that to Tom. It diminishes and makes
more difficult for Tom to do his job. And so
I think the Guerrero piece is really a big part
of this story. So it's not one moment with Guerrero.
It's a series of moments over a period of years
that ultimately came to a head. He's been so kind

(01:10:52):
to give us forty minutes on our Saturday podcast. Strongly
encourage you purchase The Dynasty, Jeff Bennet addict who put
such great effort into this. It's it's such prideful work
and such smart work. I feel lucky that we have
people like you out there deep diving on some of

(01:11:12):
these books, on these topics and gaining the trust of people.
You're a real pro at what you do, Jeff, and
I just appreciate you giving our audience and me forty
minutes today and I continued success have you. Have you
chosen your next topic. I'm trying to stay focused on
what I have to do right now. Fair enough, well,
I look forward to it whatever it is. Thank you,

(01:11:35):
and it's been a privilege to be on with you,
so thank you so much. Jeff thank you, and we
hope you enjoyed our Saturday podcast