Comparing Ezekiel Elliot & Antonio Brown, Dak's High Price Tag, Aaron Rodgers' Latest Comments and Where Colin Was Right & Wrong

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:27):
is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. We are live in Los Angeles on iHeartRadio,
Fox Sports Radio, and FS one. It is great to
have you here once again. Joy was on the other
side of the country hung out with my dogs all weekend.
How are you, Joy, I'm great. I was in Miami
for NABJA. Great time. Happy to represent talks there. Yeah,

(00:50):
you actually did. They took young broadcasting hopefuls and they
did debate shows. Yes, we did one minute debates myself,
Rod Parker and through SARS and then they got to
take them home for their real which was really nice.
That's really really thoughtful. I love that so um. I've
never had a great deal of sympathy for any business

(01:12):
that sees crazy and says I want to partner with
crazy because, as we've said before, people show you what
they are. Believe them. People do not change in life,
especially as they get richer, unless there's a health scare.
They're gonna die if they don't quit smoking. Rich people
don't change. They have convinced themselves their way is right,
and you'll they'll see rich people they make the same

(01:35):
mistakes over and over because money is jet fuel for
the ego, and so once you pay an athlete who's
had issues, they don't go away. They often explode. So
Antonio Brown with the Raiders, one of his teammates said, quote,
what's happening here is the craziest thing I've ever seen.
It's absolutely insane. Set a teammate who's been playing in

(01:59):
the NFL for years. I don't even know why it's
so important to him, said the teammate. The helmet issue,
it doesn't make any sense. By the way. The helmet
issue is the NFL, trying to improve safety, has outlawed
certain helmets. Tom Brady's helmet, he's got to get a
new one. Antonio Brown's helmet, he's got to get a
new one. Aaron Rodgers helmet, He's got to get a

(02:21):
new one. None of the guys are happy. A b
has made it a big age grievance against the NFL.
But here's the thing. Let slow go look a chronological
order Oneo Brown College red flags. Go look up his
draft breakdown. A problem may drop off team's boards. Really

(02:43):
talented can be difficult. Then he goes to the pros.
Teammate Ryan Clark says, if you pay Antonio Brown, you
will regret it. He will not do good with lots
of money and power. Let's move to week seventeen of
last year and for the Steelers, he bails on the organization.

(03:07):
Now he goes to Oakland and it's crazy town because
of a rule safety change implemented by the league. He
can't handle it. Instead of treating it like an adult matter,
he's become a petulant child. College, early NFL career, later
NFL career, new team, four for four, crazytown. You know

(03:28):
what this makes me think of? Zeke? So let's go
to Ezekiel Elliott. Let's go to his chronological drama. College
calls out an Ohio State coaching staff in a big
game when they don't give him the ball enough. Then
leaving college, his dad warns NFL teams. He's just a kid.

(03:48):
He's not ready for this. He is not ready to
be an NFL star. Then he gets to the Cowboys
where he has several judicial issues. Now he's holding out
in another country. So again, you don't see some Zeke
potential in Antonio Brown. I do calling that is Antonio

(04:12):
Brown is way worse. Yes today, but if you go
back six months ago, Zeke had far more off the
field nonsense than Antonio Brown did. But Antonio Brown was
showing you a Patternson's college, lot of ego, a lot
of me, not a lot of US red flags scouting reports,

(04:32):
teammates calling him out, bails on the team. So you know, listen,
Pittsburgh smart organization moves off dramatic player, Oakland less smart
of an organization embraces him. New England smart organization takes
Johnny Manzil off the board. Cleveland less smart organization drafts

(04:55):
him in the first round. You know, I've come to
the conclusion in the NFL that basically it's like the
rest of society, they're really smart, ten to twenty percent
at the top, work the bottom and middle eighty percent.
That's kind that's kind of what society's like, that's a
lot what the NFL is like. So when I watch

(05:15):
the ab stuff, I don't know how you don't see
some parallels and have some concerns with Zeke in paying
him big money. I mean to me, I'm just seeing warning, warning,
flashing lights warning. You can say it's not fair. Antonio
Brown's worse. But six months ago, Zeke had the Mardi

(05:36):
Gras incident, had the Vegas incident, had the judicial, the
female allegation incident. Zeke six months ago had way more
stuff on his resume, the bad resume than a B did.
Be very careful, be very careful. People tell you who
they are, Believe them. All right. Let me shift to this.

(05:58):
We've been on this story for a many days and
it's certainly worthy of it. So according to Mike Lombardi
of The Athletic, that's that subscription based service, A lot
of good stuff on that. Dak Prescott turned down a
new contract worth thirty million annually. So here's what Dak
Prescott is doing. Joe Flacco did this years ago. Dak

(06:21):
wants the bet on himself. Tom Brady's doing this in
New England. I'll sign a one year deal I'll bet
on myself now. When Joe Flacco did it, he had
a very good defense behind him and the AFC did
not have a lot of obstacles in the playoffs. He
had Brady, a really good rookie, Andrew Luck and an

(06:42):
old Peyton, Manning and Big Ben. But the AFC, if
Dak's gonna roll the dice on himself this year, turned
down the offers roll the dice. The NFC's deeper. It's
got more good young coaches McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan notably.
I just want you to think of this, if you're
gonna bet on yourself, Joe Flacco bet on himself. But

(07:04):
Joe Flacco looked around the AFC and thought, what are
my obstacles in this AFC to get along the playoffs? Brady, Old, Peyton, Young,
Andrew Luck and Big Ben? Just think about the obstacles
Dak Prescott will face at quarterback in the NFC. This
is outloaded. The NC is Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff,

(07:28):
Jimmy g Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, cam Newton, Carson Wentz.
Two of those. Two of them will not make the playoffs. Yeah,
So if you're gonna roll your dice. Remember this about Dak.
Dak is not like Flacco is not a stat monster.
Flacco has never been big stat guy. So Flacco to

(07:50):
get his money roll the dice on himself. He needed
playoff wins because he's not a guy that can go
and say, look, look, I have Patrick Mahomes five thousand yards.
It's not who he is. Flacco and Dak are similar.
They have a maturity. They can win on the road,
They've been pretty good in bigger spots. They're often bad
on a game that doesn't matter and good in games

(08:12):
that matter. Flacco was always sort of a really good
playoff road quarterback, good in Foxborough, but could be bad
at home against Cincinnati. Isn't that Dak. Dak isn't going
to be able to say, look at my passing yards,
look at my touchdowns, look at my passer rating. Flacco
never could. The difference is Flacco, when he better than himself,

(08:32):
had very few obstacles. Look at the obstacles Dak has.
Because Dad to get his money is gonna have to go. Look,
one might division wild card win second round. I don't
see it. And by the way, what if Zeke holds out,
so now you don't have Zeke and you got to
face those quarterbacks. This is also a run first offense,

(08:54):
so again, Dak's not gonna have big numbers. What Dak
is saying is I'm gonna roll the die. We're gonna
win this division, We're gonna get the playoffs. And by
the way, if he goes wins two playoff games, then
he's gonna get the number. But what if he's a
wild card team? Because Philadelphia, in my opinion, is the
best roster in the NFL and the best team in
the NFL this morning. So my guess is he's a

(09:17):
wild card quarterback at best going on the road to
face Baron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff, Jimmy g cam Matt.
That is a big roll of the dice, regardless of
how good you think Dak is, and I think we
all think he's the middle of the pack. If you're
gonna roll the dice, you gotta be able to look

(09:39):
at the obstacles presented in front of you going forward
for the next six months, whether it's me, whether it's
your job. You're the attorney, you're the dentist, you're the artist.
What at the quarterback. There are a lot of obstacles
in the NFC for Dak not a stat guy, never
gonna be he is rolling the dice on oh, win

(10:00):
my division. I'll win some playoff games and you'll have
to pay me thirty eight m. I wouldn't do it.
I would take the thirty million dollars. The NFC has
never been deeper, it's never been better. I mean, I
was sitting there talking to the staff this morning. Who
do we know that's terrible in the NFC? I can

(10:22):
give you three or four. In the AFC, we know
will be week We know Oakland won't be great. We
know Denver won't be great. We know Buffalo won't be great.
We know Miami won't be great. We know Jacksonville won't
be great. You tell me. In the NFC, I watched
Kyler Murray, they could be interesting. So if I'm Dak
that thirty million dollars when the obstacles ahead presented look

(10:43):
very very difficult, I'd take the thirty large. Coming up next,
Aaron Rodgers just did something I never thought he would
stoop to really bad. And that's coming up all right.
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(11:46):
is all it takes to save fifteen percent in your
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it up fifteen percent off. So Aaron Rodgers is very
thin skin, reacts a lot to things I say. Says
he doesn't. Somebody does, obviously, so does America. Frankly, Okay,
So Aaron Rodgers came out and he was talking on
a podcast to a very popular former packer, Matt Kon

(12:09):
does a podcast, Very very good John John Kun My bad.
It was not that notable player, but in small Green
Bay he was kind of, you know, iconic and worship fullback.
They don't have many of those in the NFL. So
Aaron is insinuating during the podcast all these off the
field dramas with Matt Lafleura's new coach. It's just it's

(12:30):
just this is very Trumpian. It's just made up stuff.
Go ahead, it's fake news, John. That's the media cycles
these days. Unfortunately, the media other than that Mec yourself,
there's a lack of integrity. I think there's a rush
to to put up headlines that are quick baid, and

(12:51):
when you're in a really low news cycle like in
June until when there's not much football going on, that's
the kind of stuff that comes out. We don't need
to spend any time talking about it because complete ridiculousness. No, actually,
you talked about it, Aaron. You brought up the fact
you didn't like the audible system. We have quotes of

(13:12):
that on tape. You brought up the fact that the
joint practices were, in your words, stupid. This isn't fake
We have tape, Aaron of you bringing up your displeasure
publicly with your new head coach. With the joint practices
and the audible system. We are not saying it's man overboard.

(13:35):
Nobody in the media says it means you can't win.
In fact, I still think you guys win. You the Packers,
LeFleur eront win the NFC North. Nobody is insinuating that
you guys can't get along and win games. You commented
publicly on these This just once again illustrates how Finn

(13:56):
skinned Aaron Rodgers is that he would have to go
to a podcast and again publicly talk about something. There's
no fake in this news. You created the stories. You
didn't have to talk about the audible system. Brady, wouldn't
you didn't have to talk about the joint practices. Brady,
wouldn't you did so as an iconic American Green Bay

(14:17):
Packer quarterback. We do discuss, by the way, the fake
news thing. Let me give you some examples of teams
that denied stuff that just happened to not be fake news.
Ob j New York Giants will not be traded. We
didn't sign him. The media kept saying with Obj Jay
Glazer others he's gonna get traded. I said on the air,

(14:38):
don't believe the giants. I'm hearing he's gonna get traded.
What happened? He got traded. Giants called it fake news.
One for one. How about number two? A couple of
years ago, Jay Glazer reports Jim Harbass out in San Francisco.
Owner GM don't like Carball harbos Camp fake news, distraction
doesn't exist reality. Harbaugh got fired two for two. How

(15:01):
about Aaron Rodgers Mike McCarthy. I think I was one
of the first to say, watch the body language, watch
the throwaways, something is wrong. This relationship has dovetailed. Multiple
reports followed. Aaron and Mike McCarthy are not on speaking terms.
It's ugly denied by both. Result McCarthy was out three

(15:21):
for three. How about Arizona Josh Rosen staff has split
Kyler Murray's going to be the number one pick. Arizona
denied it. Josh is our guy. These are just media reports.
Result four for four. They drafted Kyler Murray. How about
the Seahawk locker room. About two years ago, there was

(15:42):
that big ESPN article by Seth Wickersham said there was
a divide in the locker room between Russell Wilson, who
many players thought was too Goody Goody and Seahawk defensive players.
Seahawks denied it. What happened they got rid of the
guys that in the story didn't like Russell Wilson five
for five. There's no fake news here. The only reason

(16:02):
I reported on the audible story Aaron talked about it.
I wouldn't have talked about it. I wouldn't have known
about it. How would I have known about it. I'm
not in the film rooms. The only reason I talked
about the joint practices Aaron talked about it. How would
I know? He didn't like the joint practices. He called
them stupid. His coach said he loved him. That feels
like a story. Listen before you go trump here, Aaron,

(16:25):
these stories were created by your words. And you are
Aaron Rodgers, an American superstar. You think we're not gonna
talk about it when you blast your coach for joint
practices and call them stupid, when you go out and
talk to several sources and say, I like to add
lib I'm pretty good at it. I can do stuff
with other guys can't which, By the way, you're right,

(16:46):
and I defended you there. There's nothing fake about these stories.
They couldn't be more real. There's flesh here. We didn't
generate them, you did, Joey Taylor with the news. No, no,
this is the herd line news. So the Cowboys are
out of stand stale contract talks with three of their
key offensive players, and according to The Athletic, Dak has

(17:08):
turned down a thirty million dollars per year offer. If
that's true, Dak projected a deal that would have made
him the sixth highest paid quarterback in terms of average salary.
And are also eighteen days into Zeke's hold out and
before Saturday's preseason game. Jerry Jones says he is not bothered.
It's any updates with Ezekiel Elliot's contract. Yes, And the consequently,

(17:30):
if they'll read the newspaper, they'll see that Hayes stelling
Cabo and we're here in San Frantisto. It's a marathon.
It's a long season, it's a long career, and so
that you don't let a week or you don't let
a month, so you don't let any of that bother you.
And it goes on all the time. It's not like
to play sixteen games. You work on this twelve months.
Here I can buy that Jerry Jones is not concerned

(17:53):
about how all this is going to play out. Now.
I'm sure he wants to win and he realizes that
having all of them available and on the field as important.
But Jerry's been through crazier times than this with the
Cowboys and his tenure there, so I don't think that
he is overly stressed about that. I think they're trying
to get the best deal to move forward. That said,
if Dak is going to be compared to Carson Wentz

(18:13):
his entire career, right like they're kind of joined at
the hip as far as their careers like Baker and Arnald, Yes,
they're just going to be connected and it's the way
it is and being and of course because he is
the Cowboys quarterback. But if you look at let's use
wentz his contract as an example, because dak Is allegedly
turned down thirty million dollars, Carson Wentz got thirty two million,

(18:34):
four years, thirty two million, sixty six million guaranteed, and
he didn't feel like that was a bad deal for
the Eagles, and you got to pay Carson Wentz. But
if you compare their careers, Dak is every bit within
his right to ask for more than thirty million dollars. Now,
I know everyone feels like he is not worth that
because of his skill level, but again I just have
to point to the wins. He is one and two
in the playoffs. Wentz's he get to play in a

(18:55):
playoff game. I know everyone is looking forward in Carson
wentz career, but one of the best abilities is availability.
And that's when I constantly go back to with Carson Wentz.
I understand it's very young in his career, but he's
had a lot of injuries, and Dak is there. He
is always available. I mean, look at Zeke's hold out
and he's only played nine games with the Maori and

(19:15):
it's thirty two and sixteen. And Zeke has missed six
games and he's thirty two and sixte What hurts Dak
is that the team has a superstar running back, and
mostly it feels like within the organization it's a Zeke
run offense, not a Dak run offense, whereas Carson Wentz
has a series of b running backs. So teams have

(19:35):
to make a decision in that backfield component. Can we
pay two people huge money? Generally, the feeling in the
NFL is pay the quarterback unless he's on a rookie deal.
Then you can sign Todd Gurley for three years. The
problem is Zeke wanting this two years early. Yes, Zeke
is sort of the issue here because Zeke really should
have waited until next year. But I understand where Zeke

(19:57):
is coming from. Because of his position, he feels like
he needs to secure the money up front. I don't
I don't think that this is the year to do it.
But this is how Zeke feels about his career. And
he's probably not wrong because running backs are becoming less
less of a commodity. That said, Dallas could have tied
this up months ago, waiting until now and risking Zeke
holding out, and then you know that you have to

(20:17):
pay a Mari two. It's really on Dallas. If you
pay Dak thirty two, let's say, and you pay Zeke sixteen,
you got forty eight million dollars against the cap in
one small space of the football field, in the backfield.
So to me, I mean, I think with Philadelphia they're like, yeah,
in two years, we'll pay Carson Wentz a fortune, but
we don't pay anybody else in the backfield. And by

(20:39):
the way, their offensive line is old, so Philadelphia is
going to start moving off some of these offensive linemen. So,
I mean, I think a lot of this is you're
trying to figure out outside a quarterback, where do you
sprinkle the let us around? And I think Dallas is like,
do we want to have forty eight million dollars tied
up in a backfield? I mean, I get it, But
Dak's been on a fourth round rookie No, but Z

(21:00):
had plenty of time to figure this out. But Zeke
was on a first round deal and came two years earld.
It's more, un It's more I think they want to
pay Dak, but they're thinking, if we paid Dak this
and we have to get Zeke. So I mean, I
I'm sure they didn't anticipate Dak being what he is right,
so being in a situation where they have to pay
him that. So the Colts are three weeks and six

(21:21):
days away from Week one, and they'll have joint practices
with the Browns this week, but Andrew Luck will be
out as he works his way back from a lingering
calf injury, and Frank Wich gave an update on Luck's status,
saying continuing to progress with his strength, still a degree
of pain in his cap that he's not comfortable with. Obviously,
we're not comfortable with putting him out there. We're going
to continue work with our medical staff on the plan

(21:42):
moving forward. He has only practiced three times since injuring
his cap in April, and Peter King pointed out last
week that he has also had three MRIs on this
string cap, so that kind of shows a pretty serious
level of concern and also a lot of confusion concerning
the injury. They play the Chargers in Week one. I

(22:03):
don't like this at all. I don't like it. It's
still lingering. I think if you enter the season injured,
you're gonna leave the season injured, so that we can
anticipate kind of a touch and go situation with Andrew
Luck this year, and that's one of those injuries that
I mean, I'm not a doctor, but it seems like
you want to have that one hundred percent healthy before
the season starts. And it's kind of interesting that they've

(22:25):
had three MRIs. Aren't at all. I don't know what
I trust the new NFL paradigm, and I watched every
preseason game this weekend, like nobody's playing their starters. Well,
I'm okay with that, and I'm okay with him not playing,
but the not practicing thing is concerning. If he was
only not playing in the preseason games, not even a
concern because what does Andrew Luck need to be in

(22:45):
a preseason game for. But he's not practicing, that is
what's concerning. Finally, Mike Tomlin is heading into year thirteen
and despite being the league's third longest tenured head coach,
and his footing in Pittsburgh seems a little unstable. You
finished nine six and one and miss the playoffs last year,
as we know, and he recently just signed a one
year contract extension through twenty twenty one, but he told

(23:06):
Peter King he is not worried about his future. I
love the job. I love the challenges that it presents,
the variables ever changing. It's continually stimulating in terms of longevity,
and I don't think a lot about longevity. I'd just
like to feel the urgency and now you do that
enough man, and and you win enough, then you get longevity.

(23:28):
Longevity has never been my focus or my agenda. I
just want to be a really big football team here
in twenty nineteen best best coach in a microphone in
league history. You literally write that down. He's very good.
You should literally write what he just put down, and
you should put it in the what coaches should say
when asked about contracts. That's literally exactly what you'd write down. Well,

(23:50):
he should have no concern about his contract. Yeah. I
know everyone's doubting the Steelers this year, and I do
think they are in a bit of a prove it
year because they did lose Levian Bell and Antonio Brown,
which is a lot of talents to lose on the
offensive side of the ball. The Steelers are gonna win
the AFC North this year. Mike Tomlin's not going anywhere.
I know everyone thinks it's just like all falling apart.
I do think that their window for winning another championship

(24:13):
is very, very small because Roethlisberger doesn't have that much
time left in the league right and I don't know
who they plan on replacing him with, great Online great GM.
I watched him this weekend. Boy that James Washington would
Juju Smith. They drafted a running back. I don't get
the sky is falling with Pittsburgh. I think I like
them because the Steelers have expectations of a super Bowl

(24:35):
every single year, no matter what the situation is. Everyone
in Pittsburgh right now currently expects the Steelers to win
the super Bowl this year, and if they don't, that
is not success. The Steelers aren't just trying to make
the playoffs. And when you play with expectations like that,
you play up to those expectations. There's been a lot
of breakdown and culture with the Steelers, which is what
makes everyone nervous. Yeah, that I get, Joe La nos Well,

(24:59):
that's the I've often said. Wide receivers be very careful.
They are. They break the huddle first, their son of
kind of their own guys. Uh, they've got big egos.
So I think it's only fitting we bring in a star,
former Super Bowl champion wide receiver to talk about Antonio
bound Greg Jennings. Now, by receiver standards, you were not difficult,

(25:24):
you were not a holdout guy. You were very mature.
So there's some of this, Uh, there's some of this
that's not relatable to you. But like Antonio Brown, you
went to a smaller school. You use the chip on
your shoulder the way Brady does. It worked in your favor.
You know a lot of guys in this league. Half
the league is undrafted. You use the chip to motivate you.

(25:47):
Antonio Brown's use the chip to sometimes separate himself from others.
That's how I view it. Um. I think Antonio Brown
at this weekend, I went and looked up as history
as college. I think you could spot it really early.
In fact, I called one of my best friends in
the NFL who's friends with Mike Tomlin, and Mike Tomlin
told my friend this weekend, we know my friend by

(26:10):
the way he goes, you have no idea how well
we hid stuff he goes. You heard about it in
week fourteen. We were dealing with this the last two years.
Would they be That's what Tomlin told my friend, Like like,
it's a lot of work. And Mike, by the way,
very pro player, like Pete Carroll. He likes guys to

(26:30):
get gassed up. So when you look at this Antonio
Brown situation is as a team at fault, is the
league at fault over the helmet issue? How does it
land for you? Well, first, I'm going to address the
Mike Tomlin thing really quick and briefly. Every coach hides
inner organization, locker room laundry. Every coach does specifically when

(26:56):
it's related to your stars. You just hide it. You
don't want it out there. As far as the Antonio
Brown helmet issue and all of this, like I'm I'm
on his side when it comes to fighting it to
a certain extent. And this is why, because I've gone
through this, I've had to change my helmet and it

(27:19):
was a big deal. It is a big deal. Anytime
you change what has been the norm, you're going to
put up some type of resistance. We just don't hear
it going on like this to where guys try to
come at the league the way Antonio Brown is and
handle it in his way, in his manner. But everyone,

(27:42):
I don't care who it's been that's had to change
their helmet. No one has just said, okay, I'll change it. No,
it's it's a big deal because you've been wearing the
same helmet or same piece of equipment for so long
it becomes a part of you. But a pilots to
every year go into the cockpit and they change equipment.

(28:03):
My dentist now uses a laser to clean my teeth.
It's awesome. M We live in a world where the
NFL is consumed almost with safety regulations. So the NFL
is just let's by the way Brady said yesterday, he goes,
I don't like my new helmet either, you know, But
what am I gonna do about it? I'm not I'm
not disputing that. I remember when they took typewriters out

(28:24):
of my office when I first started and gave me
a computer, and I grumbled for two weeks. I'm not.
I'm not disputing that it creates discomfort. But do you
go public? Do you file a grievance? Do you not
show up to camp? I mean that to me is
beyond now you're disruptive? Well, I mean it depends on
how you feel strongly about it, and I think for

(28:45):
Antonio Brown, he obviously feels very strongly about I don't
want to part ways with my old helmet. And I
can get that because I had it again. I had
a rideil helmet that I felt like I could zibili
see any and everything. It was open. I got hidden,
probably my nose in my face several times because I

(29:07):
was just so exposed. But there came a time where
that helmet group to be extinct, where it was outdated
and it wasn't as safe. And just like a vehicle
sitting in a car, like no Tesla or No. Twenty
nineteen vehicle is gonna put in a seat belt from
nineteen sixty six. It's just not gonna happen. Once you've

(29:29):
advanced the safety precautions, you're gonna stick with that theme
in going moving forward. And it's no different with the helmets.
But there are some people who will go back in
love that nineteen sixty six vehicle and we'll put that
seat belt on because that's what comes with that vehicle,
and they're setting their ways. This is what we're seeing

(29:52):
with Antonio Brown, not wanting to part ways with what
has been his constant and his norm. It has absolutely
nothing to do with him trying to go against what
the NFL is doing. Is just a part of what
he's done all of his career, the help, the equipment
he's used all of this career. And this is what

(30:12):
people don't understand, like this isn't like he hasn't been
wearing this helmet and all of a sudden it's not
protecting him. It's just that other helmets have proven to
perform better. And so this is on the lower echelon
of performing helmets. So they're banning it now. It's the
same difference, the same thing that happened with my helmet.

(30:33):
It wasn't that the helmet wasn't going to protect me.
It just wasn't going to protect me as well as
the new helmets that had come out. All right, we'll
take a break helmet talk. I'm gonna ask you about DAK.
I'm gonna ask you about the contract, how players look
at money. Aaron Rodgers says we're all fake news, which
were not, of course, because he brought all the stuff up.

(30:54):
Then we responded to it. Now today he says we're
all fake That's coming up, Greg Jennings, Super Bowl, Paul
Bowlder coming up next The Herd. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter not
a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the
iHeart Radio app. Multiple Pro Bowls, ten years, super Bowl Ring.
By the way, Greg Jennings wants to call me out

(31:14):
for something I said earlier today, Go ahead, Yeah, you
definitely didn't watch all the preseason games. I watched the
highlights on the NFL network of all the pair we go.
That's more clarity because the first week of preseason ball,
no one watches all of that. I do my homework.
You would be very surprised I watched. I watched how

(31:34):
much of that. I sat there with a notepad yesterday.
My first takeaway is Chris Johnson, former running back, said
I'm not letting my boys be running backs. They get
treated terribly. I ran into Melvin Gordon at the Las
Vegas Airport this weekend. Very nice kid, very reasonable, but
he understands what's happening to running backs. It's, of course,

(31:56):
it's what's happening to centers in the NBA with analytics.
If you can't shoot a jumper, we don't want your size.
If you're a running back now and can't catch. That's
why Zeke and Girley are valuable. Melvin Gordon can catch.
The Adrian Peterson days are over done. They're done. Like
if you if you're a center and can't hit a jumper.
That's why Brook Lopez is still in the league, and

(32:17):
why big because he can step out on the perimeter. Okay,
so you know it's funny about this when I when
I look at um Chris Johnson saying that about running backs,
so you were a wide receiver from the very beginning,
right from you never were a running back to back
high school. In high school, I was a running back
in why'd you shift? We had no wide receiver and

(32:39):
so you had to go out there, and so I
was like, I can catch, I'll go out there. And
then I saw how easy the game was to impact.
To impact the game, you get by this one defender
and you got one more to beat. Who can't do that? Right?
And it just went from there. I feel bad as
I was talking to Melvin Gordon about the running back situation,

(33:01):
and we've talked about the Zeke hold out and listen,
I like Zeke, but I look around this league and
that Dallas offensive line has produced three different thousand yard rushers.
His relationship with Amari Cooper. I thought the last nine
games they played together, they were seven and two. They
were three and four when Zeke and Dak played together
without Amar. I mean, if you ran an NFL team,

(33:24):
would you pay Melvin Gordon? I would pay Melvin Gordon,
but I wouldn't. I would hesitate because that's a position
that you could win by committee, mostly New England Philadelphia
and the results. I mean, you look at Shoot you
look at Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. When's

(33:45):
the last time we called out a running back? Well,
New England, Philadelphia? Like it's it just doesn't. It's like
you don't technically need that guy in the backfield to win. Like,
don't give me wrong, they're they're valuable when you get
the right one that can be versatile, but you're still

(34:07):
better be very aware of exactly what. Yes, you have
to be mindful of that because the shelf life, it's
just been proven, it's not they don't have long dividence.
Ask yourself this, if Zeke couldn't catch, you'd let him
go today the two years to you let him go today. So,
even Zeke as a great running back, the component that

(34:28):
makes him worth the big money his ability to move
outside and Dad can deliver the ball to him. I
mean that to me, Adrian Peterson's over, that's a dinosaur. Absolutely.
When you look at running backs in today's game, if
they're not a first, second, and third down option, what
are we paying them for? Alvin Kamara, the reason why

(34:51):
he is so special and he will get paid is
because you can split him out and line him up
as a hybrid receiver or if you want to, and
he can be just as impactful, and you have to
cover him with the linebacker because if you put him
in the backfield, you don't want an extra defensive back

(35:11):
on the field. You want a linebacker that can run support.
So you're in a bind if you're the defense. So
guys like that they become invaluable, but they still have
a certain self life. Yeah, so whenever I bring you
on the show, I'm careful not to bring you on
just to talk about Aaron Rodgers because I don't want
to put you in that position and be it would
get tiresome. But it was interesting that Aaron came out

(35:34):
this weekend. John Coon was a former fullback. He wanted
his podcast. We have the bite where he said, basically,
the media is fake. It's a slow news cycle. They're
just making stuff up. Here's the bite by Aaron Rodgers.
It's fake news, John. That's the media cycles these days. Unfortunately,
the media, other than that mec yourself, there's a lack

(35:56):
of integrity. I think there's a rush to put up
lines that are quick paid and when you're in a
really low news cycle like in June, until I when
there's not much football going on. That's the kind of
stuff that comes out. We don't need to spend any
time talking about it because complete ridiculousness. Okay, My pushback is,
what do you mean you didn't spend time talking about it.

(36:19):
You came out and told us about the audible system.
We didn't know you came out and called the joint
practice a stupid We didn't know you talked about it,
and we reacted to an iconic superstar, handsome Hollywood movie
star talking about it. There's nothing fake about it. If
you didn't talk, we wouldn't reply. I wouldn't go out
in the here and say, you know, I just have

(36:39):
this feeling Aaron hates joint practices. I responded to you
saying you hated joint practices. Yeah. I there's a lot
that I can sit here and say I agree with
Aaron rising because I've been in that situation where what
you say isn't always conveyed or accurate accurately. It's like

(37:02):
I can sit here and do this interview and somebody
will subtitle it Greg Jennings talking or down talking Aaron
Rodgers again, just because I don't agree with everything they
say that's not at all what I'm talking about right now,
or only what I'm talking about. But that's the way
media is just to get clicks, to draw interests, to

(37:26):
have people view whatever it is they're writing or displaying.
This is why you should read the article, not the headline.
Increasingly people just read the headline and don't read the article.
I think this is a very fair criticism of the
American media in general. The guy that writes the story
or the woman doesn't write the headline. They write it,
send it into the company, yes, and the company writes

(37:48):
the headline. I've even gone to my people before, I've
done this probably three times since i've been here, and said, hey,
I don't like the headline on this. You're making it salacious.
This is what I said about the Chicago Bears. So
something I in the media deal with my own headline writers,
because I'll do stuff, it'll get released in the podcast
and it would be this headline that it's making it
sound very dramatic. And I get why we're doing it.

(38:09):
So people turn in and letten to it, but it
bothers me. So that's your problem, Yeah, that's my problem.
But then on the flip side, of it is as
a well, I shouldn't say, on the flip side, on
the same side of it as a player, like you're
asked to answer questions and if you everyone talks about
changing the narrative or answer them however you want to. Well,
if you're that guy and you never really answer the question,

(38:32):
then no one really wants to talk to you. So
when you're asked the question and you are honest, it's like, uh, oh,
he doesn't like joint practices, let's talk about it. Well,
let's I can defend him in a sense because if no,
because you're showing your opponent everything that you're doing and

(38:52):
they get to see it from an inside perspective that
no one else typically gets to see. So for a
guy like Aaron Rodgers, and I'm not this is the
only reason why, but I could definitely see why he
wouldn't like the joint practice because he's a big, nonverbal,
communicating quarterback, which means he's signaling often. And so the

(39:13):
more you're signaling, the more opportunity it is for your
opponent now to get a beat on, Oh that signal
is for this, or now they see what routes go
with what signals and then you're constantly trying to evolve.
You're signaling throughout the season because you feel like it's
out there or somebody has a jump on it or
a beat on it. So I can see why a

(39:33):
quarterback of his magnitude that is more or heavy in
nonverbal communication with his perimeter guys wouldn't like joint practices.
By the way, I did you ever go into a
season talking about Dak and Zeke and Mari Cooper? Did
you ever go into the season where you were thinking
about your contract or did you have it wrapped up
every time? No, I definitely went into a few seasons
thinking about the contract. And when acts in the media, Greg,

(39:57):
what do you think about that it'll be It'll take
care of itself. Are you concerned about No, it'd be fine.
In the back of your mind, you're like, man, I
just really wanted to get done. Every waking moment, not
every waking moment, but a lot of your moments are
are spent thinking about is it gonna get done? Are
they talking? Where are we? How close are we? Would
you play differently? Would you not run certain routes? Not

(40:17):
at all? Not at all? If I when I'm there,
when I'm on the field, I'm not thinking contract when
I'm suited up, whether it was practice or game, You're
not thinking about your contract. Now after the fact, you
might be looking at the stat line making sure that
you're doing yourself a great service to provide a greater

(40:38):
opportunity to impact with the contract. But going into it, No,
is there tension between you and the team. There's I
believe that there there there always tries to be this
undisclosed I should yeah, this undisclosed level of tension where

(41:00):
nobody really wants to talk about it, but it's it's there.
You disclose all the no, we want you here and
I want to be here. You passed in the hallways. Yeah,
and everything is. Everything is good. But then when you
hear from your agent or you're talking in the conversation,
it's like, what, well, you're not showing. What you're showing
me is not where you're showing get it. This is

(41:23):
this is where I get This is where I side
with players. This whole thing is I can do this
for you know, twenty more years seemingly, um, if I
had a twelve year shelf life, got to maximize it
and I played football. There's by the way it's I
would want listen. I I this is where I sided
with football players. I'm a wide receiver, guys are I've

(41:46):
seen teammates go down in camp. I haven't gotten a
big contract. I get it. I get why you guys
go diva a little bit. I get it. I still
like him. Here we go, all right, Colin right, Colin wrong.
It's a Monday Hour two. It starts our afternoon and
it's great seeing Greg Jennings. So we're loaded today. Colin right,
Colin wrong. Coming up next, be sure to catch live

(42:08):
editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter not a
Empacific to Monday Hour two live in La. This is
the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. We are on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio, and
FS one. I continue to be home alone with the

(42:28):
animals two dogs in a fat cat for the next
three days. Joy is traveling the globe. Just got back
from an important convention in Miami. When's the last weekend
you put on sweatpants and eight wheat fins and did nothing?
Oh wheat thins. Great snack, delicious, great snack. I don't know.
I don't remember actually exactly. Yeah, you don't have those.

(42:52):
I mean I try to. I've got a lot of
them coming up. Because the boss is years. I'm spending
a lot of time in sweatpans. But so shout out
to NABJ was a lot of hog since there all
who loved the show. Many came up and asked what
it was like working with you, and I said, it
was wonderful. You were wonderful. It is I love my job. Well,
I love my job too. So every Monday, Jeff Fisher
This Hour. John Middelkoff, former NFL scout. By the way,

(43:15):
I watched a lot of NFL preseason this weekend. I'll
just tell you San Francisco forty nine Ers offense could
be shockingly good. That's my first. My second impression is
Pittsburgh Steelers. James Washington popped. He was here last year.
Was a wildly talented kid at Oklahoma State, and you

(43:36):
didn't see a bunch of him. Lord boy, you talk
about you know, we forget these are young kids. Are
like twenty two year old people that kid in the
last year. This offseason, James Washington to the Steelers, Wow,
and San Francisco's wide receiving talent all of a sudden
two years ago that nobody San Francisco. Now between Coleman
the running back, they can catch, Kindled the tight end

(43:56):
from Iowa, Dante Pettis, the herd kid from Baylor, Sweeney
the wide receiver from South Carolina. Man, do the Niners
have a lot of players on offense. I don't know
about their defense, but on offense they are going to score.
Jimmy Garoppolo, Kyle Shanahan. They upgraded their old line last
year in the draft. Watch out for the Niners. All right,
here we go it to Monday, where Colin was right,

(44:17):
where Colin was wrong, Where Colin was right, I said,
I think the Steelers are going to be fine without
Antonio Brown. The Antonio Brown situation was summed up nicely.
Go to Twitter and read Mike Silver. Mike Silver has
been covering the NFL for a long time. He's in
the Bay Area. His accounts of what's happening with Antonio
Brown are disturbing. Not paying attention in meetings, checking out

(44:42):
his bank account and Instagram photos, not really playing well
with others. Listen again, I know he's talented, but boy,
oh boy, outside of quarterback. There's just not many players
in this league who I'm gonna deal with distractions. Maybe
a left tackle, maybe a great pass rusher. This is
becoming exactly what we said. People tell you who they are.

(45:04):
Aby showed you who he was for several years in
Pittsburgh and in college. The Raiders bit on it. Just
go to Twitter read Mike Silver respected an NFL guy
based in the Bay Area. This thing is, don't listen
to John Gruden. He's supporting him because he has to.
This story's a mess. Where Colin was raw. I didn't
like the Giants taken Daniel Jones at number six. I

(45:26):
didn't think he had a great arm. He had a
great college system and didn't do a ton with it.
But I thought Daniel, of all the young quarterbacks, looked
terrific for the Giants. They had him throw several timing routes.
Timing route is you got to throw that ball on
a string before the receiver turns, and he was terrific.
He had a perfect passer rating. And again, the Jets

(45:47):
are playing backups. I get it, but I thought he
looked poised, he looked sturdy. I thought his arm strength again,
it's it's August in New Jersey. Maybe in October it's windy,
it's not the same. But I gotta tell you he
looked better physically than he did in college. Maybe put
on ten pounds, maybe the whip has grown a little bit,

(46:07):
but he looked terrific. I mean, if I was a
New York Giants fan today, I would feel, you know,
it's preseason, but I thought there were some things Daniel
Jones did on those timing routes that had you make
you feel really good about him as a number six pick.
Where Colin was right, I said, I like Dwayne Haskins.
He's not ready to start in the NFL. Of all
the young quarterbacks, I thought Dwayne looked absolutely overwhelmed. Listen,

(46:31):
he played at Ohio State. You know he didn't get
hit at Ohio State. He played under Urban Meyer, one
of the most creative offensive guys. Now, some of this
is he faced Cleveland and their defensive front, even their backups.
Cleveland's receivers are great, their defensive lines actually the strength
of their team. So it was not an easy opening game.
But Dwayne Haskins is not ready to start in this league.

(46:53):
He was overwhelmed. The game was too fast for him,
and again I like him. And I'll say this with
very few exceptions, I don't think rookies are ready to play.
I thought Sam Darnold last year got good at the
end of the year. I thought he looked overwhelmed in
the first eight weeks. But Haskins is not ready where
Colin was wrong. Last week story came out Tom Brady's

(47:15):
house is for sale, and I'm like, well, I've done
that before. He's sending a message to the New England Patriots.
If you're not going to sign me to a multi
year contract, I'm gonna put my house up for sale,
and Tom Brady went on wi saying that is not true.
This morning, I certainly hope you shouldn't eat in anything.
You know, it takes a long time to sell a house.
I don't know if you guys. My house is a

(47:36):
little bit of expensive one, so it doesn't great, you know,
fly off the shelf in a couple of weeks. So
I think it I'm going to point in my life
there there's a lot of considerations that go into, you know, playing,
and I think that, you know, I'm certainly at a
place where I've been in the same place for a
long time, and I love playing for the Patriots, and

(47:56):
might such a great relationship with mister Craft and Las
Yack and our team, and we'll just we'll worry about
that when that happens. This isn't good time to worry
about it, all right. I guess it was just coincidental.
That's what Tom says. Where Colin was right. Kevin Durant
told Chris Haynes last week the New York Knicks were

(48:17):
never in the running for him. He said, if I
was leaving the Warriors, it was always going to be
the Nets. They got the pieces, the creative front office.
I like what they were building. Listen, the Knicks have
the worst owner in the NBA, and players aren't dumb.
They know this league. You don't want to play for
a bad owner. And James Dolan's cheap. And I'll say

(48:38):
this again, name the last player star in his prime
that chose the Knicks. Carmelo Anthony. There you go, buy
and large and Carmelo Anthony played at Syracuse. Tell me
all these players lining up. I think the NBA media
wants the Knicks to be relevant. I get that's like
Watt and the Cowboys to be relevant. It's like what

(48:58):
in USC football to be elevant or the Yankees to
be relevant. The league's more fun. I get it, but
they're not. And players don't want to play for him.
They don't want to play for James. Don't. And by
the way, look at this roster. This is why I
never bought Kady considering the Knicks. Look at the roster
he's gonna play with Kevin Knox and Dennis Smith Jr.
Come on, they let go of Porzingis. Now, if they

(49:19):
would have landed Zion in the draft, maybe you wake
up the next morning and go all right, I got
another young superstar. But I never bought into the Knicks.
Kevin said they were never in the running where Colin
was raw. And I've been critical of Mike Tomlin through
the years for the team often coming unhinged in key
spots and being too emotional. I always say he's like

(49:41):
Pete Carroll in Pittsburgh. There's too much noise. But I
gotta give him a shout out is that he's never
at a losing record and they have rebounded quite nicely
off the departure of Antonio Brown. I think they're having
the quietest camp I watched their first preseason game. Here's
the other thing about Mike Tomlin. I can be critical

(50:02):
of him in big spots against New England Memo, nobody's
beating New England in the AFC much in the last
fifteen years. But every Steeler player, every young Steeler player,
gets better. This is very much Pete Carroll. This dude
can coach now. I struggle with him in game situations often,
like I don't always love his game time decisions. But man, Pittsburgh,

(50:24):
they draft well and all those young players they get
better under his watch. You know, we always think it's
always about in college recruiting or an NFL of the game.
A lot of this is making young men better, fitting
them into your system quickly. And I feel better about
the Pittsburgh Steelers this morning than I did before I

(50:45):
watched him in preseason. And Tomlin deserves credit where Colin
was right. The Phillies have lost seven of ten. They're
in fourth in the National League. Geest, I do not
believe in these ten twelve year contracts for three hundred
million dollars. It means you're gonna have to save money somewhere.
Your middle relief, your bullpen, your DH, your starting staff. Okay,

(51:05):
the four teams that spent a fortune and signed a
ten year contract player are it combined seventy six games
out of first place, okay. And Bryce Harper, by the way,
he's okay of late. But again, if you're gonna pay
it creates an uneven clubhouse. The Astros won't pay this,
with very few exceptions. The Dodgers won't pay this. And

(51:28):
by the way, the Gnats who said we can't pay
this money are ahead of the Phillies. So the Phillies
have become what we predicted, a lobsided team with a
superstar who'll finish with thirty eight Jackson, one hundred and
nine RBIs and about two sixty. But in the end,
the chemistry is not as good. He has not had

(51:48):
the impact that people told me Joey Vado or Joe
Mauer or Robinson Canoe would have with their massive contract.
Where Colin was right. Dabo Sweeney, coach of c and
thank you very much. Finally somebody comes to our defense.
Alabama's schedule, the Gauntlet of the SEC is overrated. They

(52:10):
get four cupcakes, a couple of buys. Dabos when he said,
everybody tells me Alabama was tired because they went through
the grind of the SEC. Well, they won by an
average of thirty three points. Are you serious they're tired.
Who's challenging Alabama and the SEC? The answer is nobody.
Georgia comes close. LSU is no longer a factor. This

(52:34):
is why Nick Saban gets hammered by me. And this
is why Nick Saban, who does control the schedule to
a large degree, they out of conference schedule signed a
home and home with Wisconsin. The SEC is now acknowledging
the commissioner that they need to schedule more Power five
out of conference games. There's declining attendant to a couple

(52:55):
of the schools. The fans deserve more. College football deserves more.
Stop with this hooey that the SEC gauntlet is brutal.
You only play eight conference games and you almost always
have a cupcake or a bye before your biggest one.
Enough is enough. Dabbo Sweeney nailed it where Colin was wrong.

(53:16):
All you Nathan Peterman jokes. I am no longer telling
a Nathan Peterman joke on the air. He was terrific.
John Gruden was right. He had the longest quarterback run
of the weekend. The third longest run of the NFL weekend.
He looked confident. He moved the chains. He was nine

(53:37):
for twelve with a touchdown, a long run, no interceptions.
Nathan Peterman jokes are officially over on this show. Where
Colin was right. We told you we think Jerry Jones
is gonna be tough on Zeke in the negotiations. We
don't think he's gonna fold. And once again this weekend
he went public with how great tone he Pollard the

(54:01):
new running back is sending a message to Zeke. I
certainly thought he had a good account of himself. He
looks confident out there. We know he's inordinately understanding what
it is. He does what he can do, and we've

(54:21):
seen him do it. We know he's capable of if
he really needs to care the whole lovel. Jerry Jones
now or Stephen have gone public for almost all of
the last two weeks. Any opportunity they go public, they
are squeezing Zeke. I believe they're going to be tough
on Zeke. I do think they'll come to the table
and agree to a deal with Amari and Dak. I

(54:44):
may be wrong on this, but once again we said
this is what Dallas is doing. Jerry and Steve. It's
a tag team partnership. Now Steven will come out in
the next two days and talk about Zeke. They're making
it public. They're trying to curry favor in the locker room.
We've got good young players. We don't need Zeke. We're
not beholding the nique. This is what we thought they

(55:05):
should do and what they have done. Where Colin was right.
Carmelo Anthony cannot get an invitation to the FIBA World Cup.
All the other stars have turned it down. Marcus Smart
is on the team. Brook Lopez is on the team.
And this is because I never bought into the Carmelo
Anthony is loved by players. They may love him, they

(55:28):
don't love playing with him. The reality is he was
bad for chemistry. He didn't have any self awareness. He
didn't frankly play well with others. I don't think I've
ever been more right on an NBA star than Carmelo Anthony.
You keep telling me how everybody loves playing with him.
He can't get an invitation to this. He can't even

(55:50):
get a charity invitation, a Lifetime Achievement Award, invitation to
the Febo World Cup. I'm actually surprised. It's almost sad.
It's nothing against Carmelo Anthony. He may be a great guy.
I hated his game, his body, his body language, his
reluctance to play defense, to be coached, and he can't

(56:12):
even get a charity invitation. This is the most right.
I should have a new classification. Colin was right, Colin
was wrong, call was most right. The Carmelo thing is official,
where Colin was very right. Yes, there you go. I
deserved more than just a simple right. All right, I'm
gonna bring on Jeff Fisher next. Listen. Greg Jennings said

(56:33):
this earlier. Coaches are often suppressing information bearing stuff. It's camp.
You don't want the distractions, unlike the Cowboys owner if
they go out every week and talk about Zach. But
most organizations would rather suppress this stuff, not talk about it.
And I'll ask Jeff Fisher coming up, former NFL coach
for a long time, what do you do when you

(56:53):
have a player go off in the weeds. It gets
public as you're trying to pull the reins in, he's
jutting out. How difficult is it? Jeff Fisher coming up next, listen,
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(58:21):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Football
is back on Fox with the preseason clash between Russell
Wilson and the Seahawks and Kirk Cousins and the Vikings.
It all picks up Sunday at eight Eastern on Fox
and the Fox Sports Up. By the way, Kirk Cousins

(58:43):
had a good weekend. I don't think Russell played much.
I wouldn't play any of these. By the way, Jeff
Fisher joining us twenty two years in the NFL thirteenth
most wins in NFL history. You're the only coach in
sports history who went through two relocations. Those are brutal.
By the way, there, it does appear to be a
little bit of a cyclical trend. I don't think it's cyclical.
I think it's a trend. The Rams decided last year

(59:04):
we're not playing our top starters. We're just not doing it,
and I don't I don't disagree with it. Julio Jones
is like, I'm out, I'm not playing this. Jeff, I
understand players now, short window money's huge. Do you think
going forward, Um, the preseason's gonna get caught here players
are telling you, if coaches are telling you we don't
want to we don't want to play our best players,

(59:25):
well yeah, eventually it's gonna happen. Eventually, it's going to
go to probably two games. I mean you could see
one or maybe some joint practices. But yeah, if you look,
we look back this weekend and I just kind of
looked at it from a farc on there. There's significant
injuries in just the first preseason game. Sixteen games, right,
So yeah, coaches are nervous about it. And you know,

(59:46):
you saw Turning ten or twelve fifteen years ago. You know,
I'm not so sure I'm gonna play Eddie George in
the first two preseason games. And now what Shawn's did
last year with both Todd and Jared and then some
more guys on the team, I mean, it makes sense
to just rest them. Right now. Today's Monday, Okay, this
after the preseason weekend, this weekend, Today's the day that

(01:00:08):
all these guys are getting their work. And they'll get
their work today, tomorrow and Wednesday, and then they'll start
to back off and then they'll get the rest of
the roster ready for these Do you like joint practice,
as Aaron Rodgers says, I like the physicality, but I
don't like some of the things we do. You know,
live special teams can scare well. My takeaway has always been,
if a college staff with eighteen and nineteen year olds

(01:00:32):
don't need four preseason games, then a twenty seven year
old NFL guy who has doubled the practice times a
grown up as an adult doesn't need four practice games.
Would I mean? You tell me if I said joint
practices whenever Jeff Fisher wants them, one preseason game, would
it be enough? I would do two joint practices, probably

(01:00:54):
two to three day sessions against maybe two different clubs. Yeah,
that would be enough enough. College is not going to
do the preseason because they got a hundred kids, and
you you can have a defense playing a game over
here an offense playing a game over there at the
same time. So there's plenty of guys on the roster
to do that. But yeah, I would say a couple

(01:01:15):
of joint practices in a game or two would take
care of it. Let's talk hard knocks. You were on
hard knocks some like it, some don't. Uh, you know,
Oakland's a little bit of a circus. I strongly believe
Jeff that they're trying to sell tickets. Mark Davis is
by put it in context, he's the poorest NFL owner.
They can't sell out Oakland. Vegas has a hockey team

(01:01:36):
and those tickets are hot. He's moving into Vegas. They
need to sell forty thousand season tickets. I get the
marketing angle. Did you like it? As a coach? I
loved it. Now let me give you the background. For
three years, they came to us when I was in
Saint Louis and said we want you to do and
it was no, we want you to do it next year. No,

(01:01:56):
we didn't want to do it. And then finally the
league passed the solution to where you can't say no,
and so we accepted it and it was presented to us.
It's the first time that that NFL films and everybody
else would be able to and Hard Knocks would capture
a move, and none of the relocations in the past
have been captured. So they captured our move. But I

(01:02:19):
enjoyed every minute of it. The producers, the crew, the
film guys, that sound people everybody associated were very, very professional,
fun to work with, and it wasn't a distraction. And
what everybody had told us and doing our research was
as soon as you get to day one or two,
they just disappear. And that's what in essence, they don't

(01:02:41):
feel like they're any they're any longer there. Now I
do have this and here's the let me give you
this visual. In the head coach's office, they're in the
Hard Knocks. There's a camera up here and a camera
over there, and they're both pointed at you. So you're
sitting there by yourself. You walk in the morning, good morning, guys,
how are you doing? And the cameras are going like this,
So how is the night? And the cameras are going

(01:03:02):
like this, and go, hey, guys, guess what I need
about five minutes to make some personal calls here, So
we give it some time. The camera nods, it turns
around backwards, faces a wall, and you've got your time.
So those types of things still take place during the
you know, the filming the production of Hard Knocks, so
you probably see more of those in the intimate staff

(01:03:23):
meeting room. So you're not getting a hundred percent of
what's going on, would you, Jeff say, I don't want
that to make it? Yes, you can you. I don't
want to say I had had final edit. But I'm
gonna watch the entire show before the anybody else sees
it Tuesday night, and I'll watch that Sunday night or Monday.

(01:03:44):
And you know, I'm just not I think we need
to protect this information or out of the defense of
this player. This is just not Did you ever worry
that players were acting to the camera, not on the
practice field, not in the meeting rooms, but goofing around
and doing other things. Yeah, I mean, you know we

(01:04:04):
had that one episode where they took a couple of
our guys up on the blimp, you remember, and Jared
was in the blimp and they asked Jared what directions
does the sunrise east or west? And he didn't know.
You know, so off the field and out of the
meeting rooms or when you're doing football players, players are
not making a movie. Let me ask you about Freddie

(01:04:27):
Kitchens gets a job. You're a veteran coach. I do
believe the Rams trust. Sean McVay less need has rolled
the dice on and Dominican Sue Marcus Peters, Andy Reids
had players with some baggage character issues. What I worry
about with Cleveland Sheldon Richardson O b J hasn't had
what issues. But he's dramatic, he's he's a global star. Cromarti,

(01:04:50):
they've they've already suspended him. What because I think you
can win in this league having a couple of guys
that can go sideways. But if you put him in
a good culture, it works. So but Freddie Kitchens a
rookie head coach, and John Dorsey the GM is one
of those guys where I'm gonna get your talent, you
figure out how to coach it. That worries me with
a rookie coach. Give me an go back to your career.

(01:05:13):
Was there a year or a moment for you, Jeff
in your career where you thought, wow, this is close
to being too much drama. Well, I did have a moment,
but I'll go back to that in a minute. But
as far as Freddie's concerned, as long as he does
basically two things, be himself and tell the truth, he's

(01:05:34):
going to be fine. It's when you say something other
than what you truly believe. Because the players will buy
into it and they'll find out, they'll figure it out.
So be truthful and be yourself and be passionate. Love
the game, and you have to learn to treat everybody
differently under the same set of rules. Are all different,
but you have to be able to pull everybody together
in the same environment and understand why we do this

(01:05:57):
and we don't do that, and explain it to him
in such a way they can't. You just can't say
I'm gonna fire this guy if he does this, and
or I'll fire you if you do that, or go
ahead and fire somebody. So that's the and there's no
substitute for experience. You have to learn, and it takes
a long time. I say this, I said this many
times when I first got the job. And Freddie, mind you,

(01:06:21):
eight percent of his stuff right now in this day
is ex as and osa and twenty percent is dealing
with these guys. Right, Okay, he's going to find that
in a few years, eight or ten, whatever it is,
that that's gonna flip. And then twenty percent of his
time is xs and os and eight percent of his
time is dealing with the players. Because ultimately, his responsibility

(01:06:44):
beyond the XS and o's and game planning is to
make sure that they're mentally, emotionally, physically, even spiritually prepared
for the day. So at the end of your career
you are dealing with more of that than schematics. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, especially concerning the move you move three times,
we'll move from one seiton, next we'll move out here
and where we're gonna play, and oh yeah, and then

(01:07:05):
all the travel. Oh yeah. It's all about It's all
about sleep, it's all about diet, it's all about recovery.
I'm trying to take care of them so there's no
distractions in their life. When mom calls on Friday and
she wants to different color, escalate and she wants it
now before a big game on Sunday, and your player
can't deal with it, No, you got to talk to

(01:07:25):
mom for him, because I'd rather I need him focused
on the game plan rather than where do I get that?
What do I? How do I ensure you know all
that stuff? So let's go back, and I have said
this about a full disclosure. I said this when you
weren't on the air, I said, Jeff Fisher, I feel
bad for defensive coaches. Rex Ryan Similarly, the sport marginalized you.

(01:07:46):
Suddenly you couldn't coach the same way. I mean, let's
be honest about this league. You can't put your hands
on anybody, you can't hit anybody. You were a very
intimidating coach. Rex Ryan's very intimidating coach, getting guys faces
hit him a little late. That was the sport for
a long time. Suddenly you can't do any of it.
They're safety concerns. That's the new cultural zeit kist in
football in America. Less practice, less heading. Did you feel like,

(01:08:08):
like with a Jared Goff situation, you had Greg Williams,
you defense, and the world was changing, and you had
Jared Goff and suddenly you could make the argument the
Rams needed an offensive guy because this is the franchise,
not Aaron Donald. Did you feel like in the end
in Los Angeles that it was the league's changing. I

(01:08:30):
got a young quarterback. I'm more of a defensive guy.
Did you worry about that? Did you feel that? No, Well,
obviously that's the way the league has gone, and that's
all well and good. I actually we got in a
situation where we turned things around with Ron Schottenheimer, who's
now coordinating for the Seahawkers, and so, but Shot had

(01:08:51):
a personal some personal reasons for wanting to leave. We
tried to keep the offense and tact and it just
didn't work. So, you know, as a as a head coach,
you're gonna get into the league by and large because
you're a play caller, you're an offensive coordinator or a
defensive coordinator. You're a play caller. But over time, the

(01:09:12):
duties on Sunday become so overwhelming you're gonna delegate. So
I delegated the offense. But I got also I take
responsibility for, you know, our inetness over that period of time.
But I also with respect to Jared, was we drafted Jared.

(01:09:34):
We had an opportunity to choose between Jared and Carson,
and that was a really good problem to have, and
so we chose Jared, and we brought Jared on at
a very very slow pace. I wasn't thinking of Jeff Fisher.
I was thinking about what was best for Jared Goff.
So we didn't start him for six or eight weeks,

(01:09:55):
and we just brought him along slow, thinking about what's
in the best interest of his future. And then obviously
Sean came in and takes it and runs with it
and does a great jo You're surprised by his quick development. No, Um,
not at all, because unlike most situations where now Freddie,
we could probably make a case Freddy's probably in a
similar situation because he's got good people around. We had

(01:10:17):
to put together a pretty good roster. So we had
a good roster when Sean came in took over. I mean,
you had we needed some receivers, we need a couple positions.
But you know, the defense was good, and you know,
as a matter of fact, that some good players were
left so and they still had the success and and um,
you know, I think the world of him, and even

(01:10:37):
Super Bowl Sunday, you know, I'm pulling for these guys
because three quarters of the guys that were playing, we're
guys that we brought there that I had, uh you know,
some saying, but you know, Wade has done a great
job with the culture of that team, as as coach Fossil.
And you take the three of those, and you got
the top three coaches in those areas, an offensive coordinator

(01:11:02):
into his mind, and then you got Way and then
you got Fossil and that's how this league is. So
the stronger your assistance, the more success you're gonna ad. Unless, Now,
unless you're an anomaly and not a trend, or you're
a guy that's got a quarterback that might be thrown,
you know, maybe forty two years old and just went

(01:11:23):
in championship after championship. We always say take joy. And
I say this often. All right, take the Patriots out
of the league, and like, let's look at everybody else
and it's a week to week league. Finally, I've said
this for years. Herm Edwards, John Gruden and Jeff Fisher
and I told Rex Ryan this. I said, Rex, you
should consider college. You're a big personality. You could recruit

(01:11:45):
like hell. And I told Herm this. I said, Herman,
you'd work in college Arizona States. Recruiting has gone through
the roof since he arrived. I felt Gruden had some impact.
Years ago, there was rumors he sniffed Tennessee Jeff Pete
Carroll went into the NFL. He had been fired in
the NFL. He goes to college and a lot of
people are like, whoa defense? He did? Nobody know and

(01:12:06):
Pete totally clicked. Never recruited. I look at you, and
I think to myself, have you ever thought about college?
I mean, you got a lot of energy, you have
a ton of contacts. You played at USC, so you know,
you know the West coach recruiting. At least you have
a place. We won't talk about it up in the West.
You would work to me, Denver West, Jeff Fisher would

(01:12:27):
work as a college coach. You've got ties and connections.
You've had to have thought about it. Well, I've thought
about coaching, and I missed the game. I missed the sideline.
But more importantly, I missed the players. And that's what
when I get a phone call once a week from
a former player, we catch up. It's great Eddie, George's
and just the guys across the board. Over the years,

(01:12:50):
that's what I miss. And I've been really fortunate to
do some things that I haven't been able to do
over the last couple of years with my time off.
I have funny you brought it up. I've been spending
quite a bit of time in compliance and in recruiting
and the college game. I'm fascinated by the SEC. Obviously,

(01:13:10):
I love the West Coast. As you say, my youngest
son Trent played at Auburn, so you know, I'm familiar
with the sec. I want to get back, and if
college opens a door for me, I'll definitely consider it
because I love this game and I know I can
have an impact on that young student athlete and helped

(01:13:32):
to put him not in the NFL per se, but
set him up for life and the successes at life
brings and the challenges at life brings. Yeah, good seeing
you twenty two years, tied for the thirteenth most wins.
Also a great outdoorsman, a fisherman Alaska. I see your
Montana pictures. If we ever do an outdoor show, you know,

(01:13:55):
I grew up with the American sportsman Kurt Gaudy. You
and I am the same generation. And I was talking
to an executive at this company about a month ago,
I say, if we ever do one of those shows.
You know Jeff Fisher, that guy fishes all the time,
and you do. You have quite a dynamic outdoor life.
You are fishing, constantly, traveling content. I'm really lucky for
thirty years I was unable to do it, and it's

(01:14:16):
my passion for the last two I have. But to
be honest with you, I've caught enough fish for the
time being. I need to take a break from fishing
and get back to coaching. That's funny. There's a great
seeing you Jeff too. Thank you all right, Joey with
the news, No no turn, this is the herd Line news.
Well calling you never getting new stuff grown at us

(01:14:36):
when you're googling National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipments,
which is what Antonio Brown had us doing when he
started his grievance over his old helmets, and league spokesman
Bryan McCarthy tweeted a statement in response to Antonio Brown,
saying the player can't practice or playing games with equipment
that's not approved. If he doesn't play or practice, he's

(01:14:57):
in breach of his contract and doesn't get paid. NFL
policy is that helmets have to be certified by n
OSCAE if they don't certify equipment that's older than ten
years now, this is a new helmet, as we discussed earlier,
and new equipment does kind of make people uncomfortable or
Tom Brady actually talked about it as well. I've been

(01:15:18):
experimenting with a couple of different womans and I don't
really love the one that I'm in, but you know,
I don't really have much of a choice, so I'm
just trying to do the best I can to work
with it. Kind of get used to the same helmet
for a long period of time, and I did that
my last helmet, you know, I wore and the last
four Super Bowls, you know. So it's pretty very helmet
warnings and I hate it that put it on the shelf,

(01:15:40):
but that was kind of what they said to do,
so kind of what I'm dealing with and I'm working
kind of working with something else. Well, clearly Tom Brady
isn't ready to retire over the helmet. However, he did
say there he wore that helmet and four super Bowls.
So as we know, athletes are creatures of habit and
equipment can be something that's very jarring to change. Now, Look,
I don't think Antonio Brown is actually going to retire

(01:16:02):
of this helmet. I could be completely wrong, but I
think he's being a little bit of dramatic in that sense.
But I do think it's important to mention that he's
not the only one that's uncomfortable with the helmets. So
it's silly like you're going to have to wear the helmet.
There's no way around it. He tried to say, there's
a lawyer that he's going to you know, NFL don't
have liability. None of it makes sense. He's going to
be there or he's not, and they're not going to

(01:16:23):
change the ruling on the helmet. And the NBA and
the baseball and football, these sports go through cultural shifts.
The NFL is so concerned about optics on safety, they're
protecting themselves for lawsuit. That's why they keep upgrading their equipment,
less practice, less hitting. We're in a tunnel right now
in the NFL where safety in the big league meetings

(01:16:45):
is the number one thing they talk about. So they're
not going to bend on this right and listen. I
get it. It's uncomfortable and he's saying it's blocking part
of his vision. I understand it, but it's not going
to change. It's just one of those things you're not
going to win. So there's been a lot of speculation
about Todd Gurley's knee since disappointing postseason, and the Rams
have been playing this cautiously, but Sean McVay sounds optimistic
and says Gurley is feeling really good. You just see

(01:17:08):
there's some good juice. Guys have a nice bounce in
their step. I think Aaron's had an outstanding camp, and
I think the plan that we set out for Todd,
I think number one most importantly, he feels really good
about it. He's continuing to, you know, to really show
a lot of the things that make him such an
e lead player. And I think he's feeling really good.
And I think it's been a smart plan that really
with Todd and with our training staff we've implemented and

(01:17:30):
we're going to continue to follow that. By the way,
I watched them this week, enjoy they're good. Yeah, the
hims are going to be fine. They're one of those
teams that generally there's like a Super Bowl hangover situation.
I don't feel like the Rams are going to fall
into that category because I don't think that the loss
was that dramatic. I think they were just overmatched. I mean, overall,
it wasn't a high flying super Bowl that came down

(01:17:51):
to one second. It was super emotional. It was just
one of those games where like, look, it's the better team,
the more experienced coach, and obviously Todd Gurley not being
able to participate in it felt like a huge loss
game nice they didn't have all their pieces and not
firing on all cylinders. I don't look at the rams
is taking a huge stept back to No, it wasn't
like Atlanta where you felt like you out right them

(01:18:11):
and lost and come on like that, falling apart like
that dramatically, the worst like choke job ever in the
history of sports. Like that's that's something more emotional to
come back from. Yeah, Joy with the news. Well that's
the news, and thanks for stopping by the Herd line, Joy,
and I will prove coming up next Brady will never

(01:18:32):
play for another team and I'll prove it next in
the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Herd week dayson nun Easter nine am Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app. By
the way, Red Sox Battle the Indians Discovered Card Key Matchup.
Get your free credit scorecard today, even if you're not
a Discovered customer. Discover dot com slash credit scorecard limitations apply. Okay,

(01:18:55):
So optics matter right like like stuff matters. You see
stuff and you can go like that fits and then
you see stuff and you're like, that doesn't fit. So
Tom Brady has been talking about he didn't love the
contract that the Patriots gave him. Didn't love the contract
with like, you know, as players get older, as broadcasters
get older, we'd like more guarantees in life, right, So

(01:19:15):
Tom got the one year deal. He'll be a free agent.
They can't franchise to tag him at the end of
the year. He's talked a little bit about this, about
the contract and leaving New England. Here's what he said.
Or you control the things that you can control, you know,
and things that are after your control. You know, you
just got to go at the flow. And you know, again,

(01:19:36):
I think I'm in a great mental place, great and
mental emotional place to approach the season. Again, it's it
isn't the first time around. So yeah, there's no point
in worrying about things like that because there's just there's
so many what IFFs and hypotheticals. So, you know, I
told my staff this morning, First of all, I don't
think he's gonna leave one. Bob Kraft would never let

(01:19:58):
him end up anywhere else. The second thing is, I
don't believe my staff disagreed with me. I don't think
there's a long list of places that would dump their
quarterbacks for at the time next year, a forty three
year old quarterback. I just don't think they do. Teams
either have their guy. You know, they're not gonna dump
Philip Rivers with the Chargers to get Tom Brady. They've
got their guy. They're not gonna and so I just

(01:20:20):
don't think there are many teams that are available. But
there are a handful of teams. One in particular that
I think is interesting. If Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt with
the forty nine ers, Tom grew up in San Francisco.
They've got a ton of good wide receiver, tight end talent.
Kyle Shanahan is a very smart guy. If you look
at this picture of Tom Brady, sorry radio audience, in

(01:20:42):
a forty nine or uniform. I've seen Montana, I've seen
young I've seen great players. I look at that and
I think that, okay. But here's the thing. Here's the
other four teams that I think would consider either a
connection to Brady, a coach that Brady's worked with, or
they're either not into their young quarterback or they're over

(01:21:04):
their average old quarterback would bail, but tell me if
any of these look right, so let's go to the
next team. I do think the Cincinnati Bengals are about
ready to move off Andy Dalton. That doesn't even look right.
That does not even look right. It's terrifying. It's an arena.
Look Tom Brady now. And I do think Cincinnati's about

(01:21:26):
a year away. If Zach Taylor can't make Andy Dalton pop,
I think they're done with it and would move on
and call Tom Brady's agent Don Yee. That doesn't even
look like okay. I also think Matt Patricia Coosh is Detroit.
I think they're over Matt Stafford. Here's Tom Brady in
a Detroit Lions uniform. I'm sorry that cannot be sanctioned

(01:21:47):
by the league. That does not look appropriate, all right.
I do think if Oakland struggles, Gruden's gonna blame Derek Carr.
I don't, it's too rebel. Let's put Tom in a
Raiders jersey. That's not really his brand. It's not his brand,
it's not corporate enough it, you know what, it looks

(01:22:09):
like a really good practice jersey. And I think the
number five team is I think if Josh Rosen struggles.
Miami would absolutely Now that's absurd. No, No, this is
the best decision. This is the best photoshop we've ever done.
This needs to happen. Look, get that job behind this.
That looks like a movie about Tom Brady gold to

(01:22:29):
play Miami. We're really good at taking superstars and welcome
welcome them to South Beach and making it work. I
think this is a great idea. Let's go best forgiven, Tom,
Let's go back to San Francisco. Tell me that doesn't
at least look the best. That's the most realistic one. Yes,
from there, I think that would be the one that
I think would upset people the least, although it would

(01:22:51):
be kind of weird with Jimmy Garoppolo. It would be.
But if Garoppolo got hurt again, yeah, Shanahan, those receivers offensive,
smart guy hometown and it would be weird. But it
would be like Tom turning the tables on Garoppolo. I'm
going to now replace you. Right. There is something about
that look optically that I buy. I can see that. Yes, yeah,

(01:23:11):
I've seen Montana, I've seen young this is oh, I've
seen a legend in the Niners uniform. Yeah, that Cincinnati
Bengals one put that puppy up again again. That is honestly,
I think Tom if they got traded there, Tom would
have to file a grievance against the league, like Antonio
Brown with a helmet. I don't think he would do it.
I think he would just retire. I think you're right

(01:23:33):
to avoid that photo op. Yes, you just retire. I
really appreciate the offer. I'm not putting you just cannot
let that happen, all right, John Middlecoff, Niners blew me
away in preseason. I cannot believe how many talented receivers
that organization has. I feel safe saying it. That's going
to be the pop team in the NFL. They will

(01:23:55):
double their win total and more. I think they have
a chance to win the division. John Middlecoff will be
joining us, says we moving the Monday to our three
live of the Herd in Los Angeles, one more Herd.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd to listen
live or on demand whenever you like. Great to have

(01:24:15):
you in today. It is nice. So I watched all
the highlights from all the NFL preseason games, and you
had some basic observations on guys who I think are
gonna pop. San Francisco to me, is a fascinating team.
A couple of years ago, they liked their defensive personnel,
but they didn't have much on the perimeter. And I'm
watching them this weekend and John Lynch got aggressive. They

(01:24:37):
have given Kyle Shanahan a young tight end last year
out of Iowa. They went and drafted two receivers this year.
One last year Dante Pettis, Marquis Good one. I watched
them this weekend and I thought, oh lord, this offense
could be special. John Middlecoff rights for the Athletic, a
former NFL scout. He's part of my Three and Out
podcast on the Herd podcast network. So it's interesting teams,

(01:25:00):
you know, John, as you know as a scout. Pittsburgh
drafts wide receivers well. New England does very well with
offensive lineman, not so well with wide receivers. San Francisco
has had some struggles figuring out the defensive linemen. I
think they've overpaid and overdrafted, but I watched their offense
this weekend and man, I was just watching backups and rookies.

(01:25:21):
I don't think I'm exaggerating. I think this team could
win a division. You watch practices, you watch every press conference.
What do you make of the Niners. Well, I think
they have a chance to compete for the division Colin,
But that's partly because I don't think this division is
going to be that great this year. Obviously, the rams
of runaways in the last couple of years, to me,
they're probably more of a nine ten win season Seattle

(01:25:45):
losing Frank Clark. When you look at their rosta on paper,
it's you know, last year they overachieved. They're gonna need
to overachieve more. But they have a culture there. To me,
seven eight, nine wins right there, I think it's not
crazy that nine you know him definitely to me, wins
this division. So if they can keep Jimmy Garoppolo healthy
and you know, the way I described the two wide receivers,

(01:26:07):
I think you're specifically talking about Deebo Samuel and j
and Jalen hurd Ye two guys. One started out as
an SEC running back, the other one was an SEC
wide receiver. There is a culture in the SEC of
just toughness and physicality that the Niners are black. I
mean the Niners have The Patriots take a lot of
grief over the years for missing on wide receivers. The
Niners have missed on a lot. I mean a J Jenkins,

(01:26:29):
a guy that Trent Bawky drafted years ago in the
first round, had one career target for the Niners. They
have not drafted well wide receiver. And Dante Pettis they're
still to me a lot to be desired there. They
took him in the second round. These two kids came
in and immediately there's a physicality to him. The first practice,
Jalen Hurd because he was hurt during the OTA's part
of Kyle's his offense, his wide receivers gonna block, and

(01:26:52):
he was blocking defensive back so far down the field
that they started. They were creating fights in practice because
his physical style and debo. You go to practice, he
gets open with ease. I think these guys have just
and Kyle tried to temper the enthusiasm, but he doesn't
take Bill Walsh to speed that these two guys jump
off the screen. I mean, I've always liked Jimmy g

(01:27:13):
Like Carson Wentz, there's an injury concern. I don't think
he's Carson Wentz as a talent, but there is something
about him. You know, taking your Scout background, what do
you like about Jimmy ge what concerns you? Yeah, I
think the things you like. From an intangible standpoint, it
doesn't get much better in terms of the way the
guys react to him, the way they view him as

(01:27:33):
a leader, the way he interacts with his teammates, and
just his ability to retain information. I mean, he learned
from the best, right, he learned from Tom, he learned
from Bill, and then he's you know, he should thank
his lucky stars every day for a lot of I'm
sure we'll talk about the Raiders a little bit later
that Derek Carr had to go to the Raiders. This
guy's gotten Belichick and Kyle Shanahan. So there's a level

(01:27:54):
of stability and just high level offense that he's taken
in from day one, and he can handle it. His
physical attributes are pretty darn good. He's really accurate. His
arm strength you just stand there at practice is more
than enough. Now he's not the biggest quarterback, but you know,
he's definitely big enough. You know, he's at Aaron Rodgers mold,
which I think leads to the negative. The negative is

(01:28:15):
that his one of his biggest strength, really his probably
biggest front as a player is kind of ad living
when he needs to, and he's not a runner, but
he can make things happen behind the line of scrimmage
like Aaron does, like Russell Wilson does, and make big
plays outside of the pocket. Well, it's led to two
major injuries in New England. The time he heard his
shoulder when Tom was suspended for for you know, the

(01:28:37):
flake Gate. He got slammed on his shoulder right next
to the sideline last year, tearing his atl. It was
scrambling and they've really talked about trying to harness that.
And I don't know if you saw the clip this weekend,
Patrick Mahomes was scrambling around and he hit the ground
really fat and he looked to Andy and he smiled.
But you could tells how Andy talked about it after
the game. You know, you gotta be careful, man, you

(01:28:59):
are tire franchise is writing on this player. If Jimmy
plays sixteen games and he's only started ten in his career,
ten in his career, I do think the forty nine
ers will will have a chance. I'm not quite as
bullish as I was before training camp just because Colin.
They can't stay healthy a player a day. Yeah, it's

(01:29:21):
the craziest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, they have an
injury issue, and it could be training staff, but I've
I've noticed the same thing. They are really struggling to
stay healthy. I want to segue to the Raiders. I mean,
John Gruden's gonna say publicly I support Ab. Do you
think there's an ounce of regret that he signed him?
You know, I think there's an element talking to people

(01:29:42):
with the Raiders. Gruden's like Al Davis, talent means so
much to him. He doesn't mind some of the some
of the off the field stuff. I don't think. I mean,
this has been crazy, Colin. Even John Gruden or an
old school Al Davis, this would have been driving them nuts.
He shows up and I know Gruden, and I give
the Raiders credit. Gruden went out of his way because

(01:30:03):
Antonio is very sensitive and to me, old school Gruden
would have done this. Gros Grud's a different guy. The
old school will kind of the younger version of Parcels,
the offensive version. That guy's kind of gone. If you
watch Hard Knocks, he's kind of nice. You know, he's
not as big of a you know, how how can
I put it an a hole as babe he once was. Yeah,

(01:30:25):
And I think you see him interacting with you guys,
he goes over the top, you know, trying to interact
with these millennials. And in the press conference after the game,
he got Antonio's back every step of the way. They
tweeted it out. They included Antonio that they understand how
he kind of he deals with this, but to burn
your feet and then have this helmet issue again, if

(01:30:45):
if a hundred guys in the league we're having this issue,
you go, okay, no big deal. He's the one guy,
the one guy, and I think there's got to be
driving him nuts. The main reasons driving a nuts. Colin.
He's the offensive coordinator. The offense is his baby. He
wants Antonio to look good. I mean, this is that's
his side of the ball. That's where I think that's
really bothering him as his best player. And he mentioned

(01:31:08):
this in the press conference after the game, like Antonio,
I got plays for you. Please come back, we need you.
And at the end of the day, Antonio is so
good and now he kind of has the franchise, you know,
under his control. Because he's so talented. It's not like
they're going to get rid of him anytime soon. Yeah,
you know, the relationship with Derek Carr is interesting. I

(01:31:28):
like Derek, like Garoppolo. I think he has some intangible
things I like. I don't know if he's a great leader.
He can be real sensitive. I see that on social media.
Do you think long term Gruden and Derek Carr they're
joined at the hip. Eight years from now they're still together. Yeah,
but I couldn't say that right now. By any means.
They can get out of the contract next year for

(01:31:49):
like three million dollars in dead cap. This is a
make or break year for Derek. I do think that
Gruden and I even heard this last year. They love
his work ethic, they love his physical tools, They love
him Monday through Saturday and sometimes last year there were
moments in games now the team wasn't great, where he
just had some times to just let it rip and

(01:32:09):
he just wasn't. Now toward the end of the season,
he flashed a little bit of that guy that had
a chance to win the MVP. A couple of years ago.
I've heard he's had a great training camp, but all
that stuff once you're in year six, year seven, no
one cares about it anymore, just about the games. And
that's why I think it's so important for them to
get eighty four back, because for Derek to have success
and for him to maintain and beat this team's franchise

(01:32:32):
quarterback as they moved to Vegas, he's gonna need to
be productive, and the only way he's gonna be productive
is with Antonio on the field. So I'd say right
now it's fifty fifty. If Antonio doesn't play, this team's
a debacle. Now. If he plays, their defense is gonna
be bad. But I do think their offense Antonio, Tyroll Williams,
their offensive line's pretty good, that Josh Jacob's kids pretty

(01:32:53):
good from Alabama. They have Jalen Rochard kind of a
little backup scat back. They have some pieces. So I
could see their offensive offense being productive where they could
go six and ten or seven and nine and have
an explosive offense and it not be Derek's fault and
him just maintained being the quarterback. But if he if
he has like a twenty touchdown twelve interception season where

(01:33:13):
the offense is bad. Yeah, I mean he'll be gone. Yeah.
John Metelcoff, he's part of the Three and Out podcast
on the Herd Podcast Network, bay Area, very updated on
NFL stuff, especially the Bay Area. I really lean on him. John.
Good talking to you, Bud. Thanks going, I have a
good one, all right. Yeah, I'll be funny in the Raiders.
I like Derek Carr. I don't. I don't get the

(01:33:34):
reservations on Derek Carr. I mean, listen, you know, as
I was watching preseason, the one thing that really jumped
out at me is there's so much wide receiver talent
in the NFL. I like recruiting. I'm a recruiting dork.
So I watch high school football tape and watch the
recruiting I have for years. I don't talk about it
on the air. You know, there's a lot of things
I like watching. I don't so talk about him on

(01:33:56):
the air. And so I noticed this about ten years ago.
The state of California just got thirty eight million people,
and they've got about two great running backs out of
high school year. They've got about twenty good receivers. So
kids are smart. My kids are like this. I'll say
what do you want to do in life? And they're like,
oh this, And I'm like you should do that. And
I'll be like, it doesn't pay anything, and I'll like, well,
so what you should be a teacher? Yet summers off, Well,

(01:34:16):
I would pay enough to go on nice trips. Athletes
do the same. Athletes look at it and go all right.
Used to be a lot of great athletes want to
go into boxing. Guys are like, I don't have to
get my face beat in. I don't want to go boxing.
Athletes looking around and I think they look at running
back and going you don't get paid and you get
hurt a lot. And like Greg Jettings said, then you
go out to wide receiver and you're like, I only

(01:34:37):
have to beat one guy. I like it. So I
when I when I watched this league, this is I
just see so many great athletes now out wide receiver,
tight ends now can run, and I see a lot
of good quarterbacks. So my question becomes, you know we've
been talking about this. I've been talking about this with buddies.
Next year, in this draft, Oregon, Georgia, and al Bama

(01:35:00):
have first round quarterbacks. They're all top ten talents. I'm
not sure who needs a quarterback. I mean, if Jameis
Winston hits in Arizona and Marcus Mariota works in Tennessee,
they're not moving off those guys. So I mean it's
and I think, you know, Matt Stafford, Andy Dalton, are
you gonna roll the dice and bail on him if
they win eight nine games? Derek Carr. I look at

(01:35:20):
Derek Carn. I'm like, you can get to a super Bowl,
Derek Car. I can get to a super Bowl. Dere
Car Absolutely well, why can't I I saw him almost
you know a couple of years ago with Jack del
Rio defensive coach. He let the league up. He's better
now he should because Gruden's what. We got much better
weapons now than he did. Then here's joy with the news. No, no,
this is the herd line news. So the Browns and

(01:35:44):
Freddy Kitchens are entering this season with most of their
hopes riding on Baker Mayfield an impressive rookie season, he
seems to be up to the task, and Kitchens had
nothing but praise for Baker, especially his knack of extending plays. Oh,
it's very interesting. I don't really think you can coach
anybody escaping. If they tell you they can, they're lying
to you. So I think you're just gonna have to

(01:36:05):
have a feel for the pocket, and when it's collapsing
or whatever, you gotta get out there or sit there
and take a sack. And I don't like stacks. Nobody
likes sack. No. I think he's right. Actually, I think
that having an awareness of the pocket and the escapability,
however you want to measure that is something that is
kind of natural. I mean, we see quarterbacks like Ben Roethlisberger,

(01:36:27):
who's an Hall of Famer super Bowl quarterback, not really
known for getting out of a glass pocket very well. Right,
But Baker's also on the shorter end of quarterbacks, and
he is lined a lot to Russell Wilson, who is
maybe one of the all time escape artists in football.
So this is something that's that isn't teachable and is
definitely an element of Baker's Yeah, No, I think feel it.

(01:36:51):
I think Baker's got that. I think Darnold has it.
Baker has it. I think certain guys do. I mean Brady,
it's almost a sixth sense. Now you can just see
him slide up, slide over. I mean, his footwork is magical,
but he also really, really, really really doesn't like getting hit.
So I think it's kind of a second nature to
Brady at this point. So the Cowboys are out of

(01:37:11):
standstill and contract talks with their three key offensive players.
According to The Athletic, Dak has turned down a thirty
million dollars per year offer. If that is true, Dak
rejected a yell that would have made him the sixth
highest paid quarterback in terms of average salary. That's a
pretty good that's a pretty good offer. It's a pretty
good offer, obviously not the offer that he wants if
it's true. And we're also eighteen days into Zeke's hold

(01:37:32):
out as well, but before Saturday's preseason game, Jerry Jones
says he is not bothered. It's any updates with Ezekiel
Elliot's contract. Yes, And the consequently, if tail read the newspaper,
they'll see that it Hayes Stelling Cobo and we're here
in San Francisco. It's a Merralthough it's a long season,
it's a long career, and so that you don't let

(01:37:54):
a week or you don't let a month, so you
don't let any of that bother you, and it goes
on all the time. I like to play sixteen games.
You work on this twelve months a year. I really
don't know what the Cowboys are going to do. Obviously,
Zeke holding out has created the issue this year. I
think that if Zeke wasn't holding out right now, Dak's
contract might already be done. Zeke has is two years

(01:38:18):
out from his contract, but he's in a situation where
he is a running back and so a lot of
turnover at that position, and he feels like he's the star.
I feel like you need to pay Dak first. And
I felt like that before Zeke started holding out, and
before we started talking about a Mari, because he is
the franchise quarterback, all this talk about he you know,
thirty million is too much for Dak. Who else would
you like? Would you like to trade up in the

(01:38:40):
draft and try for a rookie or who would be
the most tradeable asset, Amari, Dak or Zeke. Now I
don't think teams would line up for Dak, but I
do think there's about four or five teams that would
line up for Zeke. Yeah, so my takeaway is you
paid Dak. It's just a most important position, and he's
shown leadership skills a Mari I can hold off for
a year, I'd say it. I would test the waters.

(01:39:03):
I think you could end up getting a back and
two picks for Zeke. I don't think you'd get a
lot in the open market for Amri. I like him,
but I think Amar is more valuable with Dak than
on the trade market, and I think Dak's got a
limited trade value. As I'll say, I would just make
calls on Zeke. I think he's got I think he's
very good. He's a pass catching running back, which is

(01:39:24):
you're a dinosaur now. If you can't do that, I
would look. I'm telling you, I think this is no
one's questioning Zeke's value to the Cowboys. It's very valuable.
He's very valuable. But there hasn't been a rushing champ
that's won a Super Bowl in like twenty years. Yes,
Jerry's right about that, and I love the running back position.
I very much think that they I would love for

(01:39:46):
them to pay Zeke, but I think if it's between
Zach Dak and Zeke, you have to pay the quarterback.
You just you have to I don't understand the disparity.
If your offense runs through the running back, then you've
got the wrong offense. I keep hearing that Dallas, his
offense run through change has made that which while you're
not winning enough playoff games. Yes. So finally, the Cults

(01:40:06):
are three weeks and six days away from Week one.
They'll have joint practices with the Browns this week, and
Andrew Luck will be out. He's working his way back
from a lingering cap injury, and Frank Wright gave an
update on luck status. He said, continuing to progress with
his strength, still a degree of pain in his cap
that he's not comfortable with. Obviously, we're not comfortable with
putting him out there. We're going to continue to work
with our medical staff on the plan moving forward. This

(01:40:28):
has concerned me for a couple of weeks now, but
it is important to point out, as Peter King mentioned,
that Luck has had three MRIs on this stream cap,
so that shows that not only is there a serious
level of concern, but there's also some degree of confusion
as to the injury itself. It's not so concerning that
he's not playing in the preseason because We're seeing a

(01:40:50):
lot of star players sit out in the preseason, and
there's really no need for him to be in the preseason,
but he's not practicing, which is concerning to me. And
then you know, there's always a saying you come into
the season injured, you're gonna leave the season injured. You
really want to see Andy Luck at one hundred percent
and with this little amount of time left until the
season starts. How did he get How did he heard it? Again?

(01:41:11):
He hearded it back in April January forevermore so, he
heard it like an ota. He heard it at that
How did he I don't even remember exactly how he
heard it, but it's I mean, it's been lingering for
quite some time now, and he's still not out there practicing,
and they're still taking it slow. So I do think
that another week or so from now, it's going to

(01:41:32):
become something that we have to seriously talk about leading
into the cold season. Yeah, joy with the news. Well
that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd
Line for the record. This whole helmet thing we've talked
about today. These players don't love the new helmets. Okay,
that's years ago. The NBA introduced a new ball and
players were like, this isn't working, and they got rid

(01:41:54):
of it. The ball's, obviously, you know, very important for
a sport. The helmet, it's just a safety issue. Pilots
have new cockpit instruments every couple of years. That's why
pilots are constantly going back retaught the cockpit. Dennists have
my dennist us as a laser when they clean my teeth. Now,
this is just a fundamental change for safety. John Gruden

(01:42:18):
is saying he has Antonio Brown's back. Of course, I
think publicly he has to. Here's Gruden, but I support
this guy, you know, I think that's what needs to
be said. I don't know what anybody's writing or what
anybody thinks, but this foot injury wasn't his fault. You know,
this was a total accident as it really wasn't his fault,

(01:42:39):
and it's a serious injury. I know some people are
smarting at it, but it's really not a laughing matter.
The guys was hurt, he was innocent, he didn't do
anything wrong, and the helmet thing is a personal matter
to him. I think Bruden's talking through social media, so
Antonio Brown here's it. Antonio Brown reportedly is on Instagram
and social media all day, which a lot of people,

(01:43:02):
young people are especially, so you know there's there's no
wiggle room here. Antonio Brown has to play Aaron Rodgers Brady.
None of these guys like their helmets. They don't want
to change helmets. It'd be like telling a baseball player
you got to change a bat. They just don't like it.
So athletes are superstitious. They get very comfortable. There's a
lot of things players don't like. I just don't think

(01:43:24):
you make them public. I don't think you file grievances.
So I think the Raiders have a major distraction on
their hand, and they're not a talented enough team to
be missing their most talented player coming up. I do
think they're five breakout stars if you play fantasy football
or just like football. I do think we're gonna see
five players really pop this year. And I want to
talk about those five players coming up next. Well, I've

(01:43:46):
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(01:44:51):
Don't let your age not only beat you, but define you.
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
in non easter nine amp sific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Get your free credit
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your FICA credit score learn more discover dot com slash

(01:45:15):
credit scorecard limitations do apply. So despite being mocked by
Greg Jennings, I do watch all the NFL preseason games,
all the highlight packages, and I watched a lot of games.
Saturday night. I watched the Rams Raiders game in San
Francisco and Dallas. You know, everybody's out of town in
my house. They're all vacationing in a very discrete location.

(01:45:39):
And so I'm there with the two dogs and the
cat and a cocktail watch in the NFL football. And
I do think week ones in the books in preseason.
I do think there are five players in the NFL
that'll pop this year. Nunner rookies. It's a third year
for some. So let's go through the five players I
think that will really explode this year in the NFL.

(01:46:00):
Number five I think Baker Mayfield. I think now he
got Cincinnati twice in the last seven games, had seventy
d's no picks. So the end of the year his
stats where I think him bellish. Cincinnati was the worst
NFL defense and I'm not joking here in league history,
but he did average sixty eight completion percentage and that
was with some turmoil on the coaching staff. They've added

(01:46:21):
Odell Beckham, They've added Kareem Hunt by Thanksgiving, David and Joke,
who's a great tight end only getting better. And I think,
you know, I don't know if Freddie Kitchens will last
three or four or five years, but I do think
it makes Baker may feel comfortable. I think the division's
going to be better. I think Pittsburgh without a Bill,
be more focused. I think Cincinnati is has to be
better defensively. They've added better coaches, and I think Baltimore's

(01:46:44):
unique and contrarianto the league. So the division's better. But
I think Baker is going to have elevated stats. Odell Beckham,
Jarvis Landry, David and Joku, Kareem Hunt, Nick Chubb. I
do worry about their offensive line. They're not great at tackle.
They're an injury away from the interior of their offensive
line from having an issue. And I think their schedule

(01:47:06):
they faced many top defenses, especially early in the season.
But I think Baker ol pomp number four Dalvin Cook,
third year with the Vikings, had a great three games
two years ago, average ninety six yards a game, was
gonna get sixteen hundred, then got hurt and was out.
He was on his way, and that's Minnesota's old lines
better now than it was then. I think he's a

(01:47:26):
real special player. At the end of last year, he
had a very good December. He averaged almost six yards
a carry in December. Now, the Vikings brought in veteran
offensive coach Gary Kubiak, and the reason they did this
Kubiak loves to pound the ball and the Vikings last
year were thirtieth in rushing and twenty ninth in run percentage.

(01:47:47):
So he has got now a coach. They do not
want to be as dependent on Kirk Cousins in that division.
They have spectacular whiteouts, but I think they're going to
be more run invested than they've been in years, and
I think Dalvin Cook is gonna pop for them. He
is a special player. Number three James Washington a wide

(01:48:08):
receiver for the Steelers. Listen, Antonio Brown last year was
targeted one hundred and eighty times. You got to sprinkle
those around as somebody and Juju Smith Schuster. I don't
think he's as gifted physically as James Washington. He looked
terrific the other night. He had four catches ninety yards
a touchdown against Tampa Bay. Listen, he came out at
college and there were some warning signs that he was

(01:48:29):
at times a little difficult, but he was a world
class athlete. And listen, some guys evolve and some guys
developed a little slower. It took him about a year,
and I think last year he came into an organization
that had ab it had been they were trying to
develop James Conner, they had Antonio Brown. I think he
got a little overlooked and a little lost. I think

(01:48:51):
James Washington's gonna have a tremendous year. And by the way,
runs a great deep pattern. And no quarterback in this
league likes to throw the ball deep like Big Ben.
And for the record, the Steelers last year threw the
ball on sixty seven percent of their plays, second in
the NFL. They liked to throw the ball. Big Ben
likes to audible out of runs into throwing the ball.

(01:49:11):
James Washington big year number two. Jimmy Garoppolo. I think
of all the teams I saw in preseason, I was
really impressed with San Francisco's young weapons. We know about
the tight end from Iowa, George Kittle. We know they
went and got Coleman from Atlanta out of the backfield.
We know about Dante Pettis, a young second round guy
they drafted out of Washington last year. But they went

(01:49:31):
and got Deebo Samuel and Jalen Hurd and they looked fantastic.
We know Kyle Shanahan is an offensive genius. Garoppolo's eight
and two as a starter. Remember, here's suthing to remember
about San Francisco. So lad this is a stat You
got to be kind of a dog. But they averaged
nine point three yards per attempt on first down. They

(01:49:54):
liked to get the ball down the field and that
was with CJ. Befford that Bethard and Nick Mullins at quarterback.
Shanahan is a hyper aggressive first down coach. And I
think they've done a really good job. They've missed on
some other positions. I think they've recruited and drafted really
talented young receivers. And I think Jimmy g is going

(01:50:16):
to have a pop year Number one. You know, I
love Sam Darnold, but I can make the argument that
no team has elevated around a young quarterback better than
New York they went from a defensive coach to Adam Gase.
They went from no running backs to a star in
Lavian Bell. They didn't really have a top slot receiver.
They went and got Jamison Crowder from Washington, who was

(01:50:38):
the second best slot receiver on the market. They have
made not one, not two, but three offensive line interior upgrades.
And Sam Darnold, that should be noted. In his last
three games, five touchdowns, no picks, one hundred and two
point three passerady. Remember he was the youngest quarterback in
league history to dart games last year. He's a kid.

(01:51:02):
All these other guys are a year or two older.
So Darnold's gonna get older. Offensive not defensive, head coach,
star at running back, three interior offensive line upgrades. And
I'll say this because the Jets weakness is their cornerbacks.
They're gonna be in shootouts. This is a team that's

(01:51:25):
gonna have to score points to win games. They have
very good defensive front seven personnel. They are bad and
thin and not talented at corner. They're gonna give up
a lot of big plays. And I think Sam Adam's
gonna take the protective wear off and let Sam sling it.
So I think he's gonna have a very big jump

(01:51:45):
year one to big year two. How about that running back,
a wide receiver and three quarterbacks strongness, Yeah, I think
they're all gonna It's going to be very dependent on
if healthy the rest of the team stays. San Francisco
has the weirdest thing. Everybody's getting hurt. They can't keep
anybody healthy at that point. If it happened for a camp,

(01:52:09):
but it's like the third camp in a row. So
you get to a point like you gotta get a
new staff. You know, it's funny when you talk to
football coaches, they're so different in the public. You know,
the coaches look at you know, fans, we're looking at
coordinators and we're looking at quarterbacks. When you ask a coach,
who's the first guy you bring in? First coach? Every
coach I talked to is like, oh, strength and conditioning guy.

(01:52:31):
Like you talk of a college coach, they're not even
a second place. Nick Sabans like, you got to get
the right strength and conditioning guy offseason training, avoiding injuries.
It's a real thing. You can have a very good
staff if your guys can't play. It doesn't matter. So
San Francisco is in a little bit of a dilemma.
John Middlecoff talked about that they've just had back to
back camps. Nobody can stay healthy. This is also, to

(01:52:52):
me such a cross your fingers time as a football fan.
You're just like, oh my god, don't get hurt. Don't
get hurt. The other thing I noticed, look at Eric
Bengeini's here today. Nice year. Maybe it'll be on our
show once in a while. I'd be nice. Yeah, I
take you out to dinner. I thought that was enough.
I think one of the things I watched is, and

(01:53:15):
this is, you know how sports can be cyclical? Quarterbacks
get rid of the ball so fast. Now is that?
The first thing is the NFL is using so much
college offense. So these do you know joy the last
fifteen first round quarterbacks. One has busted Paxton Lynch. Yeah,
it's it's pretty bizarre. Okay, go six years ago it
was fifty fifty. So the first thing you're noticing is

(01:53:36):
is they're using a lot of this college stuff. These
college guys come in, they can play and Josh Allen
lamar Trubisky. I didn't even like Trubisky in college I'm like,
we can play. The second thing is they're getting rid
of the ball so fast. What does that mean? Last
year we didn't have a lot of quarterback injuries. If
you go another year without quarterback injuries, you got three
great quarterbacks coming out of college. It's kind of fascinating

(01:53:57):
what we're seeing here. There's almost no team in the
league that is a tire fire at quarterback. Miami's the one.
We're all like. I mean, you can complain about Derek Carr,
Matt Stafford and pretty good bye bye historic standards. If
those are the bottom seven eight guys, Nick Foles car,
I mean, those are the guys getting banged on, Kirk

(01:54:17):
Cousins pretty good. I mean those are making a lot
of money, throwing a lot of touchdown guys. Right, all right,
So Eric MANGINIU says here on my board, we'll stop
by our show tomorrow and grace us with his presence.
Doug Gottlie will stop by two. I want to thank
Jeff Fisher for stopping by. John Middlecoff and Greg Jennings
speak for yourself. Is right around the corner. Good Monday,

(01:54:38):
Good Monday. We'll see you tomorrow. One more herd the
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