Ezekiel Elliott, Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders and Tom Brady

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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(00:30):
and however you may be listening. We are live in
Los Angeles on iHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and f
S one. Joy Taylor is joining me on a Tuesday HBO.
Hard Knox debuts tonight with the Raiders and John Gruden
can't wait. It may be the greatest ever. Yeah, a
lot of storylines that potential, a lot of crazy people,

(00:52):
a lot a lot of big stories, big talkers, big ego.
John Gruden's a TV star, so we'll all be watching
that tonight. It's great. Davy in. So, you know, social
media can be very punishing, you know, it's the tyranny
of the mob. Doesn't matter if you're a publican or
a Democrat. Nobody wants to get beaten up on social media.
Your phone's going crazy, and so it's important when you're

(01:17):
going into a battle to curry the favor of the public. Right,
That's why people hire PR firms and PR handlers so
you can, you know, get some public sentiment on your side.
So Jerry Jones right now and Stephen Jones are in
a very public battle with Ezekiel Elliot and his camp
and his agents and his attorneys to gain some public

(01:41):
sentiment on this holdout. Obviously, Cowboy fans want to see
their star player on the field. Obviously Zeke wants to
get paid. But it's interesting to watch the positioning of
Jerry Jones and his experience doing this and the inexperience
of Ezekiel l So yesterday, through Jane Slater, she'll be

(02:02):
on our show in fifteen twenty minutes, the Cowboys released
making it very public again. They released some sourcing through
Jane Slater quote, we have made generous offers to make
our quarterback, running back wide receivers highest paid, top five
in their positions. We are prepared to make it a

(02:26):
prove it deal for all of them if they unravel
and don't come to fruition. So just think of the
wording here, generous, highest paid, prepared Cowboys are telling you
we are prepared, We've done our homework. We're willing to
make generous offers. Those are nice words. Prepared and generous.

(02:48):
You go to somebody's house for Thanksgiving, we prepared a
nice meal. There are generous portions, very good wording by
the Cowboys. Oh and then Ezekiel Elliott his can't release
this through Josina Anderson. He would not play without a
new contract, and he told him in January that's a threat.
I will not play. I told you in January. So

(03:13):
the Cowboys generous, highest paid, we are prepared. Ezekiel Elliott
down in Mexico, not with the team, won't play this year.
Told you in January. Who's winning the pr battle the
Jones family. Remember Stephen Jones about a week ago, I said,

(03:36):
this is so shrewd. This is all about every time
Jerry or Stephen talk, what's the common thread. They're being
reasonable here with Stephen Jones. We want to be fair.
We want our players to feel good about their contract.
But at the same time, we don't want to do
things that are out of line because we can't afford

(03:56):
to be that way. Whether it's dak whether tomorrow, whether
it's Zeke. They all understand, we've got a whole group
of young players coming behind them that want to be
Dallas Cowboys and want to stay here. And we save money,
whether it's with Dak, whether it's with Zeke, whether it's
with the Mary. It's not saving Jerry and I dollar.
It's just money that's gonna go to another player. Fair,

(04:20):
reasonable go to the players, well compensated, prepared, the Texas twang.
We're all just family here. We all want to make
this thing work. We're prepared, We've made generous, reasonable, fair.
See all the wording, it's really smart. This is for
owners Jerry and Stephen that know what they're doing. Zeke's

(04:43):
not talking down in Mexico. I will not play. This
is not the way I told you in January week one.
Zeke's not on the field. They're not gonna be Boo
and Jerry. They're gonna be Boo and Zeke. This is
you know, you heard of the art of the deal.
This is the art of public relations. This is why

(05:04):
people hire pr people to massage. You know, how would
this play massage the message? Make it? This is a
brime example. Listen to the wording by Jerry and Stephen
and the Cowboys. They've been through this twenty times. This
is this is the first rodeo for Zeke. He's never
he never held out before, and he's stumbling and he's

(05:24):
not doing a good job on this. All the messaging
Cowboys favor. Speaking of messaging, I have never seen a
team coming off a seven eight and one season. The
Cleveland Browns make this much noise, but they give us
a story every day. So yesterday they can't even not
resign an offensive line coach without making it a big story.

(05:46):
So Bob Wiley was that sort of verbose, outspoken, funny character.
Offensive line coach Freddie Kitchens got the job and did
not retain him, and Bob Wiley came out and took
shots at the rookie head coach, Freddie Kitchens and said
he didn't deserve but he didn't do squat So Freddie Kitchens,
I don't know why he felt a need to respond.
Some of the questioned whether he's ready for a big job.

(06:07):
I would not have gone here, but Freddie Kitchens fired
back at Bob Wiley. Listen, Bob wasn't under contract, all right.
He forgot to tell everybody that he wasn't under contract.
He had talked about retiring forever. All right, So sometimes
when a person says something, they have to be made
to feel relevant. Okay, Bob knows what happened. Bob knows

(06:31):
what was going on, and when he was here, he
knew everything about it. Bob doesn't wear brown and orange anymore,
all Right. I had the opportunity to hire Bob. I
didn't want to. Not sure why a Hella to tell
us the backstory. I don't think anybody cares. He's an
offensive line coach. But folks, this is very predictable. This

(06:54):
is very predictable. Cleveland's new money, and they don't know
what to do with it. They're buying jet skis, they're
buying sports cars, they're buying second and third houses. They
don't know how to act. How would they They have
never been here before? Super Bowl talk. Cleveland is generational wealth.
The grandpa was wealthy, the parents are wealthy, the kids

(07:15):
are wealthy. They've been here before. They were noisy last year.
They got it out of the building. They're like, there's
too much noise here. Because when you've never had money
and power, you become fake rich guy and fake tough guy,
loud guy because you don't know how to act. Cleveland
doesn't know how to act. How would they They've never

(07:36):
been here. They've won the divisions since the eighties, maybe
nineteen eighty nine, but it's still the eighties. The Steelers
know how to act. They got noisy, got him out
of the building. Pete Carroll's team got noisy. He got
him out of the building. And this is new England
gets noisy. They get him out of the building. That's
because Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick and Mike Tomlin have

(07:59):
been here before. They've been to Super Bowls. This is
new money and old wealth. That's what this battle is.
The Pittsburgh Steelers have had the quietest Steeler camp in years,
and the Cleveland Browns have had the noisiest camp in
the entire league. I don't remember a camp this noisy.
And again, when you never had money and get it,

(08:20):
when you never had power and you get it, you
become kind of fake tough guy. Carolina was this for
a year, Jacksonville was this two years ago. Carolina and
Jacksonville Cincinnati four years ago hosted a playoff game. Everybody's like,
oh Carolina, Jacksonville Cincinnati, and they followed it up by
embarrassing themselves the following year because the minute they got

(08:43):
into crisis, they're just fake tough guy. Carolina was fake
tough guy. Jacksonville was fake tough guy. Cincinnati was fake
tough guy. Pittsburgh's tough guy. Pittsburgh's not faking anything. New
England's tough guy, Philadelphia's tough guy, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick,
Pete Carroll. It's not any fake there. They're proven. And
when you get that power and you've never had it,

(09:04):
and you get that money and you've never had it, man,
you start feeling yourself. Listen to Freddie Kitchens, who by
all accounts is a nice guy. I watched him play
college football quarterback at Alabama. But did you hear how
he wrapped up the presser yesterday? You know, the days
of inside information and the days of unnamed sources and

(09:26):
stuff like that have ended. So you're not gonna get
any information like that ever anybody. And if I ever
see it, they're fired immediately. That's the way we're running
this organization. And I can take it. John Dorsey can
take it. We won't crack. I'll promise you promises I'll
fire people. Does that need to be said, does any

(09:48):
Reid say that, as Belichick say that, as Pete Carroll
say that, as Mike Goblins say that, to show Peyton
say that, you have to say that stuff again. I
don't blame Cleveland. Act like you've been there before. They haven't.
They've never had power, they've never had hype, they've never
had money, they've never had it. Pittsburgh across the streets
had all of those for years. They're trying to get quieter.

(10:12):
Cleveland's trying to validate their success. Well, fire people, let
me tell you the story. Here's a headline. Let's chug
beer on waymum. When you've never been there, you're kind
of faking it. Cleveland seven eight and one, one and
five against winning teams, making headlines again. Coming up next,

(10:35):
the Raidas are the only team in the league threatening
to unseat the Browns as the noisiest team in camp,
and there'll be a TV show tonight in my thoughts
on that and why HBO chose the Raidas. Coming up next,
be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio

(10:57):
FS one and the iHeart Radio app welcome back. Good
to have you in. We've had Jane Slater on Reporter
NFL Network based out of Dallas, Texas. She's been at
Oxnard at the Cowboys camp for the last couple of weeks.
She's been a great guest on our show. We thought
we'd bring her on today because the Zeke and Jerry
and Stephen Jones negotiations through Jane yesterday. We're very very public,

(11:20):
and Jane is now joining us on the phone. Generally speaking, Jane,
I wouldn't love my team negotiating through the media, Aaron
Donald and the Rams, Stan Cronky. It was very quiet.
Carson wentz with Philadelphia. It lasted maybe six hours and
it was no longer a story. This thing's gone on
now for two to three weeks. It's very public. What

(11:42):
do you make of that. I don't make too much
of it, Colin, because it's Dallas and we're used to
it when you cover this team. But here's what I
will say about the situation. I think what the Cowboys
are saying to you is, look, we feel as though
we've switched. They described as generous offers on the table

(12:02):
for all three of them, Dak Mari and Zeke. They
feel good about them. But as we've discussed throughout camp,
it takes two to tango, and it doesn't sound like,
at least from the Cowboys side, that they have had
a willing dance partner in some of this. In other words,
where they're at and where all three of these players

(12:25):
are at are nowhere close to where they want to be.
I've been told that they have made offers when they
characterize it as generous, that puts each one of these
players in the top five ato positions in terms of
highest page So they still good about that. And you know,
we talked about this last week, this Zeke thing. It's

(12:46):
my understanding what they're asking is close to Todd Gurley numbers.
The Cowboys feel like that's a bad deal. They don't
want to get in the business of starting with Todd
Girley numbers. They still the Lovey on Bell numbers are
more appropriate, and that's been the rug here. But it
was also described to me that if they can't get
on board with something ahead of the season, the Cowboys

(13:09):
aren't necessarily opposed to doing one year prove it deal. Yeah,
they're schedules favorable in the first three weeks Dallas kick
it off. The three and Oz start. They face kind
of rebuilding teams. I think Washington New York Giants are
up in there. You know, Zeke almost sounded like yesterday
the story that Zeke's camp appeared to league to ESPN

(13:31):
almost sounded like a threat. We told you in January
we're not going to play without a deal. That it
came off as a threat to me, How does it
come off to you. I think it's also their way
of fostering in this situation. If the Cowboys aren't going
to budge and they are sticking with the number, and

(13:52):
we're not going to get the deal we want done,
and then here's where we're at. I would say again,
this goes back to it's easy to hear some of
the stuffs play out in the media and everybody to
sort of panic. I think the reason why some of
us that covered this team so regularly have not gone
in to sort of move the meter mode is because
we saw this plant with DeMarcus Lawrence. That will also

(14:14):
keep in mind they went on and got Robert Flint,
so sort of like with this Alfred Lawris deal, they
went and ensured themselves, but the deal still got done.
Now here was the difference. What it's my understanding is,
unlike what happened with David Cancer, who was DeMarcus Lawrence's agent,
and this situation, David Cancer picked up the phone, he
called Stephen Jones and said, hey, why don't you and

(14:38):
DeMarcus Lawrence talk air out your grievances. They had what
was described as to come to Jesus meeting, and then
everybody was able to get this deal done. It allowed
DeMarcus Lawrence to go and get his shoulder surgery, the
starting camp on the publist, and he's going to be
ready to play by the start of the season. And
he got the deal he was looking for. So I

(15:00):
don't feel like it's it's gotten to the point where
both sides are to the point where they are literally
walking from this table. It's going to be this massive
be called up. I still haven't gotten that sense calling
and you know, but I'll preface that by saying, look,
I started from the beginning on this one thing that
everyone expected, ze get camps. I need's not here. So

(15:23):
I could one thousand percent be wrong on this thing.
But I will tell you the tone and the feeling
here at camp is not one that feels like they
can't get something done before the start of season. I
don't expect him here today by this August six, the
crew that that you're a free agency that you need
in order to be an understricted free agency free agent.

(15:44):
I get the sense that it's going to be a
little bit closer to the start of the season that
when we'll start seeing some real movement. The Cowboys, of course,
break camps here in about a week and a half
go back to Dallas. I think we might see a
little bit more movement then, But I think right now
the two pars are still pretty far apart, as we
talked about last week. All right, Jane Slater follower at

(16:05):
Slater NFL NFL Network Inside. The training camp is concluding
here Wednesday at ten am Eastern. Jane, we appreciate you
stopping by again. Thank you so much. I always appreciate
having me on. I appreciate it. Colin Fire, all right,
let's just look at the Cowboys schedule. By the way
it does, it is a very favorable schedule. Through the
first three weeks. You get a Giants team which has

(16:27):
cluster injuries at wide receiver. You get a Washington team
that maybe starting Colt McCoy or a rookie, and a
Miami team that if not tanking. It's really, in terms
of current roster potential, very limited. They don't even quite
know exactly what they're going to be at quarterback. Then
the schedule gets really, really interesting. They have to go

(16:48):
to New Orleans, Green Bay, at the Jets, Philadelphia, at
the Giants Minnesota. There's some really good teams and you're
on the road in that stretch. So I've always thought
this was more precarious and a little more serious than
even people covering it. I also think Stephen Jones and
Jerry are smartly shrewdly posturing themselves as reasonable and fair,

(17:11):
and I think Zeke sounds like a holdout. Jane just
said there's not even really discussions here with their agent.
They're not communicating. These are veteran negotiators in the Jones
family and to this point, judicially immature football player who's
in Mexico. They're not talking. He's made demands. I think
it's more serious than what we've been led to believe.

(17:34):
Here's Joy with the news. No, no, this is the
herd Line news. So details about Tom Brady's contracts continue
to emerge. It's technically a two year extension to the
twenty twenty one season, but twenty twenty and twenty twenty
one are voidiers, which is actually similar to the Saint's
five year extension with Drew Freeze in twenty sixteen that

(17:55):
included three voidiers, and when asked about it during his
media availability yesterday day, he spoke about himself as if
he belonged in the same category as players that know
they could be cuts at any time. It's really the
reality for most guys in the NFL. You know, I
don't want to think that I'm any different than everyone else.
Like it's football is a tough business. It's a production business.

(18:16):
And you know, I'm ready to go this year and
that's really what matters, and that's where my focus is.
It's it's a unique situation. It is what it is.
That's a good line. So whoever said it, it's a
very pertinent. So, like I said, there's a lot of
guys who are who have you know, one year left
on their Contractum, you know, so the situation I got

(18:38):
one year ago. We'll see what happens. Never really hard
Brady talk like that before, Well, you know what the
thing is. Disappointment and anger comes from expectations. He sets
the table too, even if he's talking to us, he
really sets the table in his mind. It's a tough business.
My contracts, like a lot of contracts, it's a production business.
So you're not greatly disappointed when it is tough. Like

(19:01):
he doesn't come in thinking, like I tell my wife
this all the time. You can when you wake up
in the morning, you kind of set the emotional agenda
for the day if you have unrealistic expectations for the day.
By my wife and I fourth of July, we invited
friends to Park City, Utah for this big Fourth of
July party. We had it all rammed up, and then
rain arrived ten minutes before and washed out the whole

(19:24):
fireworks show. And my wife was justside herself because her
expectations as you be a grass party of all time.
Tom Brady's not just talking as he's talking to himself.
It's a tough business, you know, one year deal. It's
a production business. If I'm not good, I'm not here.
I think this sounds corny, but I think as you're
in the middle of camp controlling your own emotions, are

(19:47):
a real thing, right. Football's hard, Yeah, but it's Tom
Brady and it's kind of silly to think of it
that way. I mean, when the whole Jimmy Garoppolo thing
was going on, you really saw the true power of
that dynamic between Brady and Belichick and Craft and how
all that interaction happens. Nobody feels like Brady is on

(20:07):
the same level as a guy who's trying to make
the team and had the bad production year is going
to be cut. That says not how this scenario is
going to end. There was a time where I believe
it was possible that Bill Belichick would be able to
cut Brady just without any remorse and get away with it,
and I don't. I don't believe that anymore. Well, also,
he is the best players they have on the team,
so I mean he does have that safety now. He's

(20:28):
their best player, right. But it's kind of a weird
tone he's setting, like like it almost tricks you. It's
very good. It's very politician of him, like, oh, you
know what, maybe Brady does have something to prove this year.
You know, let's just temper expectations a little bit. That's
exactly why we don't go out on New Year's anymore.
It's the most expensive, ridiculous night of the year. You
have all these expectations of it just being this, like

(20:49):
just fireworks and confetti and Shane is flowing, and it's
always an expensive disappointment. Yeah, and traffic's terrible, yes. And you,
I mean, you're obviously not going to drive, so getting
a driver's impossible. My dad used to call amateur night.
That's what he used to call the New Years. If
he said knight, one hundred percent, that's what your says.

(21:09):
Just stay home. It's so much it's so much more
thrilling to watch the show. So Freddie Kitchens wants to
make it known that there is zero inside inside information
that is going to be leaked from the Browns organization
under his watch. That was the message that he delivered
yesterday when he was asked about the recent criticism from
former Brown's offensive line coach Bob Wiley. Listen, Bob wasn't

(21:30):
under contract, all right. He forgot to tell everybody that
if he wasn't under contract, he had talked about retiring forever,
all right. So sometimes when a person says something, they
have to be made to feel relevant. For the days
stuff like that have ended. You're not going to get

(21:52):
see it, they're fired immediately. Oh boy, that's the way
we're running this organization. And I can take it, John
Dorsey can take We won't crack, I'll promise you boy.
It's a lot of a lot of big words. Look,
it's impossible to control the flow of information outside of
an organization. I think that are hold. You can show

(22:15):
that very clearly. And obviously you're not going to fire
your offensive coordinator if he's a week ten because he
spoke to a reporter and said something that just pleases you.
It's not a realistic Also, how would you know who
talked if it's an unnamed source. How do you know
which coach said something? Right? It's it's silliness. Now, Look,
there are organizations who are better at not letting information
get out than others. The Patriots we never hear anything

(22:37):
from the Spurs. The Clippers did an amazing job of that,
and that all comes from having a very distinct level
of minimum dysfunction. There's nothing to do with you running
in a room and yelling about how if anyone says anything,
they're going to get fired. Now, I always feel like
and I could use this in a white house. When
you have a white house that has no leaks the

(22:57):
previous white house, it tells you whether you agree with
their policies, that people in the White House respected the
world global view of the guy leading. When you have
a bunch of leaks in a white house or a
big CEO business, that means there's doubts about the perspective
or world view of the person leading. So same with sports.
If you have a bunch of leaks in the building,

(23:18):
it's telling you people doubt the direction the coach is
taking you. Nobody doubts Pop's direction. Pop can get out
coached in games, you can have a bad series, a
bad week, But when you have leaks, it's telling you
people doubt the leader's direction. It shows a level of
this function. And aside from doubting the direction, which is
one hundred percent true, people feel unsafe in their position

(23:39):
and their role there, so they want to get narratives
out to protect themselves or to change the direction of
the story. And that's all just an understanding of the
culture and now you can have the desire to not
have a leaky organization. But that's just a culture. Like
you said, it's a culture of respect for one another.
It's us against them. If we give them in from nation,

(24:00):
they can use it against us. We respect each other
and that's how it works. Finally, Mitch Trubiski is coming
off a productive sophomore season under the then first year
head coach Matt Nagy. He was named Coach of the
Year for guiding the Bears twelve wins in a playoff
berth But the stakes are a little higher this year
and Trubisky has to grow into Nagi's offense, and Bears
quarterback coach Dave Ragon told ESPN, this is the time

(24:23):
to push the envelope, if not now when coach Nagi
is a great coach to play quarterback for, specifically in
these types of settings in training camp, because he allows
you to go out there, tests and throws to see
what you can get away with. We're constantly pushing that
mentality now. Obviously, Trubisky had an incredible jump from his
first year twelve games, seven touchdown, seven interceptions, fifty nine

(24:44):
point four percent completion rate, completion rate in twenty eighteen,
he had twenty four touchdowns, twelve interceptions, and a completion
rate of sixty six point six percent. He had a
very Jared Goff first year and a very Jared Goff
second year. He made a big leap the differences. When
I watched Jared Goff, I see an armed talent that
is elite and getting better. When I watched Trubisky, I

(25:05):
see a really good athlete who I don't think it's
an elite arm count. My eyes tell me there's a
much lower ceiling, even though he jumped a rookie to
second ear like Jared Goff goff ceiling looks. My eyes
are telling me it's much higher than Trubisky's. I would agree.
And this is kind of what worries me about the
Bears this year, because there are expectations of the Bears,

(25:25):
and you've heard Khalio Matt talk about it like the
and we talked about all the time. The windows for
these teams are often very small, because while you may
have a very young quarterback, the rest of your team
might be veterans in a position where they are reaching
their prime and you need to win now. I feel
like the Bears are going to be. They're going to
be great this year. They're going to be what they
were last year. But I just don't know if tis

(25:45):
can they get guy to get right over? And I
think both of us feel that with Lamar Jackson, will
you win games with him? Right? But if they're trailed
by ten in the fourth quarter, Okay, Lamar, you've got
to throw. Okay, Mitch Trubisky, you've got to throw eighteen
straight time and they know you're throwing right. That's what
separates Brady Rogers, Breeze, Russell Wilson, and yeah, see Patrick Mahomes.

(26:08):
This league is not about your quarterback always playing with
a lead. Sometimes your quarterback Tom Brady trails and a
Super Bowl late and they know he trails and he
has to throw. And that's where I say, Lamar and
Trubisky to me look like limited ceiling guys. What can
they do in those huge moments trailing Because by the way,
sah in some years, Tim Tebow won a bunch of

(26:32):
close games when he had a great kicker in Matt
Prater and a great defense. But over the course of
twelve years, you're gonna have three year stretches where you
have a bad defense, injuries, so now you have to
win shootouts. Tebow could never win shootouts. I don't think
Trubisky can win shootouts, but I do think Matt Naggie's
amazing and their defense will keep him out of shootouts
most weeks. So I think they're gonna be good. But

(26:54):
at some point they're gonna pay him and you're gonna
have to get rid of some of those defenders. That's
the Andy Dalton thing. When Andy was cheap, Bengals had
all sorts of players, right, and then they paid Andy
and now it's like, oh, and he can't play from behind.
I mean, I don't want to put the Andy doll
on label on Tubisky just yet, but but I just
feel like you feel. I don't. I can't see him
in that big moments, making those plays to get them back,

(27:16):
and those that's what you rely on the postseason. Yep
joy with the news. Well that's the news, and thanks
for stopping by the herd Line. It's funny HBO tonight,
John Gruden and the Raiders are gonna be on Hard
Knocks and it's it was kind of the first football
show we had that was really really behind the scenes.

(27:36):
For years and years we watched NFL films and stuff.
But hard knocks. You go into a camp and they
wire everybody up and there's cameras everywhere. Derek Carr was
talking about it. There's a there's a very funny line
in this. Here's the sound of Derek Carr saying, it's
not going to be a distraction. Listen carefully. Well, I
think it does, and it just it opens up the
world to show us who we really are, you know,

(27:58):
And I think that's a good thing. I've really enjoyed. Honestly,
it's been cool. It's not really a distraction, to be honest.
There's so many cameras around all the time, even in meetings.
Coach is always filming his presentations, so we're kind of
used to it. Coaches always filming his presentations and meetings. Well,
that's what TV stars do. That's always been my concern

(28:21):
with John Gruden. He's a TV star. Here's the best
way to explain it. A lot of people make money
in America, but some of the money is hard money.
Lawyers put in brutal hours. Doctors. I know a doctor
he does very well. He's always on call. He gets
every other weekend off. Doctors medicine, lawyers. That is hard money.

(28:47):
It's good money. It's hard money. Television it's the easiest money.
It's just a river that flows into your bank account.
You've got makeup people and hair people and multiple producers.
Even on this little show, We've got six, eight, ten,
twelve people helping us. TV's easy money, and you get
addicted to it, and it just keeps flowing into your
bank account. And like Magic Johnson with the Lakers, John

(29:10):
Gruden has a brand to protect that continues to pay
him for being a TV star. Gruden was ESPN's highest
paid employee. I thought he deserved it. I thought he
was a rock star. He was the lead analyst on
Monday Night Football, and he was very, very aware of
his brand. I'll leave it at that. Like Magic Johnson,

(29:33):
and that can get you in trouble. What did we
say about Magic? He's not totally all in on job
number one? Do you really want to hear that your
head coach in the NFL is taping all the presentations? Really?
What for why? Andy Reids are probably even better? He
doesn't tape him. Sean Payton could tape and sells his

(29:54):
he doesn't tape him. Why is Gruden taping his Why
are the cameras there? Because he he's a brand. I
Rex Ryan talked a lot, he felt he was a brand.
I don't want my coach to be a brand. I
want my coach to be a coach. Sean mcvayh doesn't
tape his presentations. Kyle Shanahan doesn't tape his I listen.

(30:14):
HBO didn't want the Raiders. They didn't want Derek Carr,
they wanted John Gruden. The Raiders have the second losingest
win percentage in the league in the last fifteen years
to Cleveland. The Raiders don't sell anymore, despite what the crowd,
the Oakland crowd will tell you, they don't sell anymore.
And Derek Carr's a nice kid. I like him more
than most, but he doesn't move the needle. They HBO

(30:39):
is paying John Gruden. J That's that's why you got it,
because because your coach is a rock star. And I
just don't love my coach being a rock star. I
think John Gruden is great for business, I don't think
he's great for the standings. I want a coach that's
great for the standings. I don't give a rip about
my coach being good for season tickets, and I think
John is great for business. I mean he's made the

(31:02):
Raiders relevant. Who would deny that. I mean, they got
a new stadium coming up, and they're making deals with
venture capitalists for parking thing and they're on HBO and
they're in the news and they lead our show. That's
great for business. Generally, great for business is not great
for standings. So Derek Carr, Yeah, I mean he's taping

(31:24):
all his presentations. Cameras are in the film room. Come on, well,
I mean again, they picked the HBO picked the right guy.
Gruden's fantastic. I mean, watch a little trailer. He's great
at this stuff. I'm really not into dreams anymore. Okay,
I'm in nightmares. You guys look me on night. You

(31:45):
gotta end somebody's dream. You gotta take their job, you
gotta take their heart. We're not trying to go to
the Peach Bowl. We're not trying to go to the
Gator Bowl or the blue Bonnet Bowl. We're trying to
go to the Super Bowl, Okay, and to do that
you got to really try to end somebody's There is
no blue Bonnet Bowl. It was last played in nineteen
eighty seven, there is no Blue Bonnet Bowl. But again,

(32:07):
you just say stuff on TV and TV like validates people.
For years and years, I've done radio and TV, and
I always say radio separates television. It's just playtime. Television's fun,
television's e z, television's makeup, television's production, television a lot
of help. TV is the you. It validates people. Oh

(32:29):
you're on TV. You're a star, you're smart, You're on TV.
I always say radio's way harder. Radio's like ditch digging.
Television's um, no makeup people, you have smaller staffs. So
Groon just says blue Bonnet Bowl and Peach Ball and
Gator Ball, and everybody's like, yeah, I haven't played the
blue Bonnet Bowl since nineteen eighty seven, so it's a

(32:50):
oh boy, it'll be fun though, Right, you'll watch, I'll watch.
Everyone's going to watch. Did you see that clip? You
couldn't write that. This is natural. Just's he's a very
verbal It's gonna be so good, all right, very excited.
Coming up next, we've got another comment from an NFL

(33:10):
or trying to persuade people into believing that NFL players
are NBA players and know they are not and they're
not gonna get paid like them. Ever, that's coming up.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd week
dayson noon Easter not a Empacific. So I don't know

(33:30):
why this is. I do sort of, but we don't
have time. More people watch TV than watch the movies.
But movie stars make way more than television stars most
of my life, right, so a lot more people are
watching TV. I mean, one hundred million people watch the
Super Bowl. Very rare that one hundred million people would

(33:51):
watch a movie, right. That doesn't work that way, But
the reality is the movie star still makes more than
TV star. TV stars don't love that. But Johnny Carson's
the most popular almost person that's been on TV or
movies in my lifetime, and he didn't make as much
as a random actor often, Right, That's just the way
the world works. It's the same with the NFL and NBA.

(34:13):
NBA players are more connected to the bottom line and
outcomes of games than NFL players, so much more people
watch the NFL than the NBA. It's not even close, really,
it's not. The Pro Bowl gets four times the ratings
of the average NBA game. The Pro Bowls unwatchable. It's
an exhibition. But the reality is NBA players make more

(34:34):
than NFL players, and they should in most instances because
they have a greater impact on the bottom line and
a greater impact on wins and losses. But I don't
think NFL players like it. Then don't like it, okay.
And so NFL players are constantly defending other NFL players
and asking about you know, we're the big sport, We're
the one everybody watches by a mile. How come we

(34:55):
don't get paid. Ryan Clark's a broadcaster former Steeler, came
out and said, Aaron daw is the Michael Jordan of football.
The difference between him and everybody else at his position,
it's unbelievable. Well, first of all, Michael Jordan was the
best player regardless of position. Aaron Donald is the best
defensive lineman and he's amazing. But Aaron Donald would even

(35:16):
laugh at this, Okay. Michael Jordan's shoes Just to give
you some perspective, his shoes made one hundred million dollars
last year. He hasn't played for over a decade. College
football teams where Michael Jordan's brands, Michigan Football Florida, Oklahoma,
they wear Jordan's gear. MJ retired, the NBA lost fifty

(35:39):
percent of its ratings. MJ was the most popular NBA
player voted on by the public ten years after he retired.
Aaron Donald is just a really, really great football player.
He has no holistic impact on the league. You don't
see a lot of Aaron Donald jerseys or merchandise throughout

(36:02):
the world. Aaron's just a great football player. Remember, there's
a pretty simple way to figure it out. There's a
general rule in sports. The more you touch the ball,
the greater you're endorsement money. You'll be in. The bigger
star you'll be. That's why the NBA's got a bunch
of stars. Lebron's touching the ball for forty minutes a night,

(36:23):
controling the offense. You see him on defense. Tom Brady's
taking sixty four snaps for the Patriots. He's controlling the clock,
controlling the ball, handing it off, throwing it. This is
why baseball stars don't make much an endorsements. Three and
a half hour game, Mike Trout comes up four times
four at bats, goes back to the dugout in the outfield,
may have three balls hit to him all night. He

(36:45):
doesn't touch the ball much. Well, Aaron Donald is not
only wearing a helmet, he's not only an NFL player,
but he never touches the ball. And here's a list
of the top eight endorsement incomes NBA and NFL. Number
eight is Drew Brees. The previous seven or NBA guys.
Listen to NFL guys. I love you, but you're not

(37:06):
NBA guys. In terms of impact, you know there's you
don't have the cultural impact of NBA players. Kids are
buying their shoes, people are sitting there pre Christmas waiting
for brands to come out. That's not what the NFL is.
The NFL, though, is a brotherhood. It's more popular. You've
only got sixteen games, you don't have the season long

(37:28):
winter travel, you have a very a new CBA which
limits your practice. You don't get mobbed everywhere as an
NFL player. It's very hard for Jannis to walk around
Milwaukee or seven foot guys to walk around their hometown
and not get mobbed. NFL Aaron Donald could put glasses
on and walk around Los Angeles with a hat and

(37:48):
nobody'd know who he is. There are great advantages to
the NFL. The player pensions fantastic. You don't get mobbed everywhere.
Practices are lighter and lighter than ever you have you
were games, you will have more off time. You don't
get ravaged by the vile nature of social media. I
mean Aaron Donald, nobody's attacking Aaron Donald. Nobody's comparing him

(38:09):
to mean Joe Green and ripping him and his family,
and he's not getting As Adam Silver said, our players
are depressed, are great players are depressed. So there's advantages
to being an NFL player. I love the brotherhood of hockey,
I love the brotherhood of football. NBA's about in the star,
so they're always going to make more money, just like
movie stars. More people are watching TV. Movie stars make

(38:31):
the money because they have more connection to the bottom line.
They have more impact on it. But it's not all lost.
I mean Tom Brady is still functioning at an MVP
level at forty two. There are certain positions in football.
You can play a long time quarterback being one of them.
By the way, football also hires its own players end
up on staffs. The college wants to hire you. You You

(38:53):
went to the NFL team wants to hire you. That
went to broadcasting networks. Everybody's got football. Everybody he wants football.
There's jobs galore post football. There's fifty five roster spots.
NBA's got like twelve. So there's a million advantages to
the NFL. But if you're just looking to be more popular,
mobbed at a crowd and make more shoe money, is

(39:15):
not gonna happen. As DeAndre Hopkins said on Twitter, y'all
think top NFL players deserve top NBA players contracts. Remember
that on Twitter. The entrance no very few exacts. I mean,
they probably deserve them, but there's just it's they're two
different sports, different to compare. All Right, Hour two is
coming up. Rob Parker's gonna yell at me, LaVar Arrington too.

(39:35):
It's a Tuesday. It's the Herd. One more Herd. The
Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a
week within the iHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen
live or on demand whenever you'd like. Ah, here we
go on to Tuesday second hour. This is the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.

(39:56):
We are live on iHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and
right here on FS one, Crazy Rob Parker part of
the Odd Couple. On Fox Sports Radio, Chris Brussard's gonna
be joining me in fifteen minutes. So this is a
funny story. So Tom Brady put his Boston mansion on

(40:17):
the market, meaning he put it up for sale. He
has since taken it off the market. So I'll get
to that in a second why he did that. And
it's very interesting. He lives in the Brookline section of Boston.
I've always thought it's interesting. Troy Aikman felt Joy Taylor
like a Dallas cowboy. He felt like that, he sounded

(40:38):
like Dallas, he looked like Dallas, he talked like Dallas,
he played like Dallas. Joe Namath felt like New York City,
the mink coats, the hair, the looks. Big Ben feels
like Pittsburgh. Okay, I never thought Brady felt like Boston.
Boston's cranky and parochial and provincial and political and pessimistic

(40:59):
and cold, and they talk Saucs and Sam Adams, and
Brady's happy and aspirational and global and optimistic and not
overly political. In terms of career. I always feel like
Tom doesn't feel like Boston. Not to mention his wife
is a supermodel, a Brazilian supermodel. And if you say cold,

(41:24):
cranky political sauks, Sam Adam, that doesn't sound like you're
retiring in Boston. I never feel like they're a Boston couple.
They just happened to Like a lot of Americans, they
just happen to work in Boston, and this is where
they'll stay. They put their house up. They were looking
for something in the Alpi, New Jersey, which is a

(41:44):
rich person area, and the Greenwich, Connecticut, which is an
even richer person area. They have now since taken it
off the market. You know, it's funny about this, and
you know, I mean, you can make jokes about Boston,
but I've never felt Tom's personality and maybe to California thing.
I don't think Aaron Rodgers, he doesn't really feel like
green Bay and he doesn't and I don't think necessarily

(42:08):
Russell Wilson feels like Seattle. He feels like almost New
York or La cra impacts that. So there are certain
guys Eli Manning. Toby doesn't feel like New York. He
just works in New York. But it's interesting with Brady.
He put his house on the market. So Tom's made
two hundred million dollars, smart with his money, homes everywhere.
His wife's made five hundred million dollars. It's not a

(42:29):
money thing. They didn't need to put their house on
the market for money. Not to mention, Lebron's still trying
to sell his place at Akron. I think Tom Brady's
place would be on the market at forty million dollars
in Brookline for a while. That's a hard house to
sell anywhere. Boston can be kind of geographically isolated, saying
there's not money and smart people and a lot of income.
But that's a big house in a area, cold area.

(42:52):
So but the reason Tom Brady put his house on
the market is because, in this instance, this shows you
the competitive nature of him. Okay, this shows you Brady.
Don't mess with me. You mess with me, I'll put
my house on the market, make sure the media hears,
and then the Patriots pay him and he takes his

(43:12):
house off the market. I said, Tom's not political. That's
very savvy and very political and very shrewd. Tom is
letting you know, I may take a discount, but you're
not going to run me out of town. Here I
am ready to move. I'm gonna be financially nibble. He
didn't have to sell that house. That was imaging. He
didn't really want to sell that house. How do I know,

(43:33):
because once they gave him a contract, he took the
house off the market. That was Look, I'll take a
little less, But don't think I don't have leverage. Don't
think I'm crying over here. Don't think I'm in the
corner of my house huddled, feeling weakened. Now, I'll put
my house up in the market. I'll go free agent

(43:55):
next year. I'll just leave. I'll you can't franchise tag me.
They didn't give me that in the contract. You can't
franchise day. This is where Tom is telling all of us.
This ain't over. This is not nearly as close to
over as you think. I'm still competitive, i still want leverage.
I'm still fighting from a money. I'll sell my home.

(44:16):
I'll stay nimble. That's what that told you. What Brady did. Listen,
if Brady was a year from retirement, you just sit
there in the house. He just keep the damn thing.
It's forty million, it's cold in the winter. You just
keep it. He put it on the market then took
it off. Just tell you I'm not going to be used.
I'm not an old man. I'm still viable. I'll move tomorrow.

(44:37):
Don't don't put baby in a corner. It's not gonna
work that way with me. I'll give you a little
bit of a deal on the contract, but I'm still
the most competitive guy on this franchise. And that's where
That's where Tom was sending a message. And that's okay.
It's not a bad message, but it's a message. How
does that work when you get to goes, walk around

(44:59):
and take a take a showing of Tom Brady's house.
Do you have to get that at first? Do you know?
We um Actually we found Tom's neighbors. Maybe one of
the reasons he wants to leave is we found his neighbors.
We have a tape of Tom's neighbors. They're very Boston.
We're driving on McGrath Highway in some of theo and

(45:20):
I noticed a couple of cars swinging like moving to
the right, and we've seen something in the street. And
he's like, louis what is that? What? I'm like, I
don't know, I don't what is it? So I ran
across the highway to grab it. We brought it in
the car. We had no idea what it was. First thing,
I said, this belongs to the Red Sox. This is
the Fenway Park. Yeah, I'm thinking that they hanging off

(45:43):
the Green Monster, right, I mean, we need to negotiate here.
We want to we're looking for like you know, we're
working too. Yeah, I mean my man had to run
across three lanes traffic. Those are Tom's neighbors. Legendary. Well,
at least they're thoughtful, very thoughtful neighbors. They're gonna make
sure the house of school. They love the socks. They

(46:05):
love the socks. So Brady just sending a little messaging
out there. I maybe forty two. I'm not an old man.
I'm not cowering in the corner. I'll put this puppy
up for sale. I'll buy a house in New Jersey.
By the way, Belichick hates the jetson Giants and all
that stuff. Right right, I'll move over to New Jersey.
Don't kid yourself. I can move a little messaging by Tommy.

(46:28):
By the way, I saw this. This got voted on
the All Decade Team. NBA dot Com came out with
This the all decade team, the best NBA players of
the two thousand and ten decade, right two thousand and
ten to twenty twenty. So the first team I totally
agree with ten rings over a ten year span. Curry,

(46:49):
James Harden, Lebron, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard. That is a
great team. I agree across the board Steph Curry, James Harden, Lebron, Durant, Kwhi.
It's basically Lebron, James and people who could beat Lebron
James and James Harden. The second team good hell, this

(47:10):
is my personal nightmare. Chris Paul Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Carmelo,
Anthony and Anthony Davis. No rings. Hard to play with.
Outside of Anthony Davis. The first team is winners. The
second team is really good on Instagram. They're only missing
John Wall the drop off first to second team. This

(47:31):
shows you, and they say this in every business that
in every it doesn't matter what the businesses. In every business.
You've heard this before, Joy, you know ten percent of
the people you know are influencing ninety percent of the
outcomes real estate, medicine, there's a top ten percent. Look
at the first Team All Decade team Curry, Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Harden,

(47:54):
and look at the second team. Look at the drop off.
It's highlight guy, It's Instagram guy. It's hard to coach guy.
It sometimes lacks self awareness. Guy. Now, Anthony Davis is
the one guy in the second team I like, And
James Harden is the one guy on the first team,
though he deserves it. That can drive me nuts. Harden

(48:16):
I think does deserve first team. Anthony Davis I do
believe deserves second team. But the drop off there, even
in the NBA, the drop off from the top, the
top group to the second group. Now, the third group
was even goofier. But that's because it was d Wade
and Kobe and they got old in the decade now
is the most debated. Yeah, and this is don't take

(48:38):
much out of this. Jannis is just a baby. Kobe
and Dwyane Wade got very old in the decade. LaMarcus Aldridge,
I wouldn't put him there. But what evs that that
team's just a mishmash of stuff that I wouldn't get
too caught up on that. Again, if you'd gone the
previous decade, not two and ten and on Kobe's probably
in that one, so don't that's not a shot at

(49:00):
It's just the way the ten years worked out. They
didn't align perfectly with d Wade and Kobe's peak years.
But the first team amazing. Second team. You need like
four basketballs do get it up the floor. Coming up next,
Rob Parker LaVar Arrington too in a former NFL defensive
end for the Giants, Jags, and Jets, will join us
his thoughts on what I'm hearing out of the Jets camp,

(49:22):
which is very encouraging. Be sure to catch live editions
of The Herd week dayson noon eastern nine am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Saturdays,
the double header on FS one first freights Harper powers
the Phillies against the Giants, Then Nolan Arronado and the
Rockies take on Manny Machado and the Padres. Coverage begins

(49:44):
at three eastern noon Pacific on FS one and the
Fox Sports pat The Phillies have the same record mostly
as the Nationals. One got Bryce Harper, one gave him up.
By the way. The Padres, I think are in last
place and the Angels are no Good with Mike Trout,
these ten year ask the Reds with Joey Vado, the
Twins with Joe Mauer, the Mariners with Robinson Canal. Why
are people giving stars ten million, ten year plus contracts?

(50:07):
Because it's baseball and you're gonna have to wind up
paying down the road. If you do three years and
the guy has some big years, it's gonna cost you
more money. It's actually the owners are the ones who
started as saving money, cost cutting. Don't blame the players.
All right. Here we have Rob Parker, co host of
The Odd Couple. By the way, he's lost thirty pounds,
forty or thirty thirty. He's lost thirty pounds in six months,

(50:32):
four months. My god, you don't eat at night anymore. No,
don't eat after seven o'clock. I had a trainer three
days a week, and I just watched low carbs, low carbs,
get rid of the bread in the pasta cardio, all
that stuff. A bread potato once in a while. Oh no,
but I'm gonna have one on his trip to Miami.
I'm head and I'm gonna definitely have one. There is

(50:53):
there's literally no way that I could ever cut potatoes
out of my dome is an impossibility. My doctor says,
eat nothing but potatoes, and I feel like a horse. Yeah,
my doctors from Idaho. All right, let's start with this.
I want to read you this. The truth has emerged
on Tom Brady's contract. Brady got an eight million dollar raise,

(51:15):
and the Patriots simultaneously created five and a half million
in cap space for next year. Brady will escape the
potential application of the franchise tag. Though genius. They gave
him more. It's more cap space. Sounds like genius, New
England trickonometry here. There's always something going on. But I
didn't even know that Patriots were dealing in welfare because

(51:37):
they just gave Brady eight million dollars. The last quarterback
who won a Super Bowl with the numbers that Brady
put up, they showed him the door paid Manning. Go
look it up. Brady might have sixty or eighty yards more,
but he had a full boy, he had an interception.
You remember how bad paid Manny looked in that that
the defense won it. And the same thing here third

(52:00):
teena three. Tom Brady wasn't that great. Two years ago
he was the MVP of the league. And he also
fumbled in the last couple of minutes, right lost to football.
If you remember that in the Super Bowl. I get it,
but I'm just saying, here's the other thing. He has
the owner bamboozle, And here's everybody everybody goes because most teams,

(52:21):
what do they do? Colin? You know many great quarterbacks
have ended their career elsewhere. Everybody almost United's Nameth Peyton Montana.
Montana was four No, right, he finished elsewhere. This is
that he's made a friendship with Robert Kraft. He's going
to go against everything the Patriots have always done, which

(52:43):
is they rather get rid of somebody what too early
than too late. And here's the other thing. While the
Patriots are paradingists seventy million dollar contract, Oh, we took
care of our guy to satisfy the fan base, the
reality is he got an eight million dollars a year,
eight million dollars raids on this year and nothing guaranteed.

(53:04):
That's seventy million dollars a forty contract. If he falls
off the cliff as a forty two year old, they're
not if they really believe in Tom Brady and he's
just freak of nature and he Colin is gonna play
till forty five? Why didn't they give him a contract
till forty five? Why didn't they sign him up and
make that money guarantee until Tom Brady, we're committed to

(53:25):
you no matter what. Well, because they know the deal,
where ain't gonna happen? Well, I think Brady's at a point.
I mean, if you're asking me, who's got leverage. Belichick
can coach for another eight years. Tom probably can't play
for another eight So the coach has leverage over the player.
But I think that's I think that's I think Tom
Brady knows how the NFL works, is that the player,

(53:47):
even if you're a star quarterback, very rarely has leverage.
I mean, let's be honest, even if you're a great quarterback,
a franchise can tag you twice. You're kind of trapped
in the NFL. And here's the other thing. People always
praise Tom Brady, Oh he takes less money and other players.
First of all, it's a bad precedent by Tom Brady

(54:09):
that hurts other players, star players where they go. Well,
look at Tom Brady. He wants super Bowl. He's unselfish,
he doesn't need you're given a discount to billionaires. Your
wife is very wealthy. We get it, but it's not
right to do that. Here's the other part. For all
the money he saved a billion billion dollar owner, he

(54:29):
also people always give him credit to say Tom's done
more with less. Well, if you're saving the franchise money,
how come you not spend it on star receivers. If
he has extra money, well, they spend it on corners,
They spend it on occasionally a linebacker. They pay their kicker, well,
they pay their secondary well, they paid gronk, well, they
pay their offensive line pretty well. I've always thought one

(54:51):
of the it's almost sounds like a Saturday Night Live bit.
Tom's never the highest paid. Where's the money going? But
what they do is they sprinkle it around everybody. They'll
pay a kicker, they'll pay defensive down lineman, they'll pay
a center. But the only thing is, I just think
it's unfair to ask millionaires to give a billionaire break.
I just I just don't buy into that. Okay, how
about this. The Raiders are on hard knocks. A friend

(55:14):
of mine texted me last hour and he said, I'm
driving in San Francisco. There's a big sign over the
freeway HBO. John Gruden holding the football, Derek Carr said
yesterday when asked about the distraction. It's not a distraction,
he said, because coach is always filming his presentation, so
we're kind of used to it. I think John Gruden's
good for business. I'm not sure he's gonna be good
for the AFC West standings. Absolutely, And this is the

(55:37):
problem with the whole thing that's happened. It's a reality
show and not about football. That's why the Raiders are
in the position they're in. It's always about everything else.
Give a coach one hundred million dollars a ridiculous contract.
Did you see John Gun's record? Have you seen it
since he won that Super Bowl which was Tony Dungee's team.

(55:58):
If it's very possible, by the end of this year,
John Gruden's record will be sub five hundred in the NFL.
This is what I'm saying. But yet he's given all
this thing like he's the greatest thing since Slice Breyer's
a TV star. He's a TV star, and that's why
this stuff works. That's why the hard knocks. We get it.
He spent almost a decade over he has very talented,

(56:18):
very talented television guy, knows how to communicate. I get
all that, but I just wonder, at what point are
are you about a football coach and really trying to win.
I'm not sure the Raiders are there. Well, you know,
I will say this, Rob, I tend to watch the
direction of a franchise, and you know, for instance, the
Rams here in LA they got Jared Goff, then they

(56:40):
found him a great young coach, and then they spent
money on the offensive line. So they were telling me, Okay,
our future is wrapped up in this coach, this quarterback
and protecting those assets. With the Raiders, we're not going
to pay stars, just kidding. We're gonna overpay for Trent
Brown and Antonio Brown. So they're messaging to me. The
public has been they don't like stars, just kidding, we do.

(57:02):
We're gonna get a guy that's got a little character issue,
Vontz Berfect, and then we're gonna go in the draft
reach for guys because they have good character. I can
never figure out what the Raiders are doing. They're all
over the place, all over and that's what if you're
a Raiders fan. Where's the direction? Where what are they
really trying to do. They don't know what they're doing.
It feels like they're making it up as they go, right,

(57:24):
And I think that's what people don't like. And I
think that's why you can question John Gruden despite being
a super Bowl winning coach. I think that's just too
much stock put in that today. This is a basketball
that you're gonna get all worked up on this. So
the All Decade Team came out in the NBA. And
it's not really fair to Kobe because Kobe's career didn't
line up perfectly. So Kobe's on third team, and if

(57:46):
you'd gone back five years before that, Kobe'd be on
the first team. So it was Steph Curry, Hard and
Lebron Durant and Kawhi. It looks like to me, the
NBA All Decade Team is Lebron and people that could
beat Lebron. And I mean, couldn't I just say it
was Lebron's decade? Right? And it was? It? Really Lebron's
decade from this damnport he lost. He lost five championships

(58:07):
during a decade. Should he be rewarded as it's his decade?
It's okay just to go to the championship or is
it about winning? He lost more than he won. I
don't get it. If Lebron James was the Buffalo Bills,
you know, they went to four Super Bowls in a
row and lost all four. Marv Levy should be heralded
or should be ostracized? Which one? Well? I think you

(58:29):
acknowledged that Marv was great, but he fell short against
often legendary teams. But this is the only problem. Four
in a row is dubious. I could see if you
went and lost one or maybe even two, to go
four straight times and lose all four as a dubious accomplishment.
You could ask any player they would rather go once

(58:50):
and win. Didn't ever go four Super Bowls. You know,
it's funny about this. You could make an argument that
because of the impact Steph Curry had on changing the sport,
and because he had three titles, you could make an
argument it was the decade of Steph Curry. Now again
the decade of it. It's not just titles, by the way,

(59:10):
because James Harden made the first team, he didn't have
any titles. Kobe's on the third team, He's got five.
I could make an argument if you look at the
Lebron's a great player, and he has certainly made the
league more mobile. Players now move more freely. But Steph Curry,
I would argue, and I don't think it's much of
an argument, change the game to a much higher level.
He brought the three ball in, he eliminated centers. I

(59:33):
get that part of it. But the only issue I
have is he really didn't become a big winner until
Durant got there. He was a winner, okay, but I'm
saying a big winner because we saw this past year
no Durant, no title, and they were looking for Steph
Curry to come make some big shots at the end
of the game it didn't happen. Well, you're very tough
on them. They lost Clay, they lost Looney, they lost her.

(59:54):
Do you have an open look? He had an open look.
That's like ago he to have won that game with
Clay down. You want to talk about rising yourself up
and showing what a great player, you would have said
no Duran, no Klay Thompson, and Steph Curry with the
three wins. It would you What would you be telling
me if he made that bast Because Steph Curry changed

(01:00:16):
the way the game has played. Steph Curry won a
title without KD. Steph Curry beat Lebron. Steph Curry won
seventy three games to set a record in the regular season.
That's a lot of good. Now, by the way, I'm
a radio host. I have bad segments, I have bad sentences.
But I think over the course of my life, you'd
say he worked pretty hard and did a pretty good show.
Steph Curry. They all have blemishes. Michael Jordan didn't win
squat between Worthy at Carolina and Pippin for eight years.

(01:00:40):
I think you're dinging guys too hard for mistakes when
it we always should take the bit. Like Kobe Bryant
was a ballhog at times, but overall you look at
Kobe and you're like closest thing to m Jay in
our life. I get that, and I think that's a
fair point. My only argumental pushback would be, I think
people make Steph out to be that guy, and when
you're oh for a with the game tied or behind

(01:01:02):
in the last twenty seconds, I don't think you're that guy. Colin.
You're a really good player, great players. You're not that
guy that they put him on that level. And that's
the only difference. That's why I pushed back on Steff.
For all the qute threes he's made right like he's
playing the Washington Generals, none of them go down when
it really matters. If he would have made that shot,

(01:01:22):
I'd be I'd have to be right there and lockstup
with you that somehow, some way he won a big
game without Clay and without Durant Well, I mean, good god,
nobody can win if you don't have somebody. We didn't
have Clay and Durant, Well, then who do he have?
Draymond Green average seven points a game. But he shot,
he had the shot, though he didn't get it. Finally,

(01:01:42):
what do you make a Baker Mayfield chugging beers and stuff?
I just, once again, it's an amateur hour frat boy central.
I mean, I just it justn't you know what, people
can have a good time. I think you have to
always remember you represent the organization. Cameras are on you.
It's not a good look for kids. It just isn't.
And I'm not one of these guys, and what's a

(01:02:04):
doesn't want to have any fun? But I think that
there is a certain responsibility you have as a face
of a friend see, I don't. I don't think that's
an archaic view. I think I want my franchise quarterback.
I always said this years ago. I said I don't
like my franchise quarterback with her hat on backwards. Steve
Spurrier heard it, went out and said on a press conference,

(01:02:25):
he goes, what's that guy's name? Colin Carrett, I kind
of agree with that. It's not the end of the world.
But when you are the corner office representative, like you
are the face of a billion dollar franchise, I do
think there's a certain responsibility. I always said this, and
I'm not a quarterback of an NFL team, not even
close to it. When somebody comes up and wants a
picture with me and I have a cocktail, I put

(01:02:45):
it down. I don't want to represent my company. I
have alcohol in my hand. It's not the end of
the world. People know I like a cocktail, but I,
out of respect for Fox, I put I put the
drink down. You know, I probably made a mistake once
in my life, but when people come out and take
a picture, I put the drink down. I'm representing the company.
I'm out with my wife, but I'm still representing the
company always twenty four seven, no matter what. I agree

(01:03:07):
with that, and I think that Dick comes to responsibility,
and maybe you and I are just very responsible, you
know what. Me and you and Chorus, we just with
those guys. Hey, you kids, get off my lord, that's
who you are. Ron Parker, good seeing you. Always joy
with the news. No, no, this is the herd Line news.

(01:03:30):
So both John and Jay grud and we're both eligible
to be selected for this year's Hard Knocks. But before
the Raiders got the nigh, let's refresh ourselves. On day's
pitch to HBO. I think, really, if they were smart,
they would go to Oakland. I mean seriously, I mean
what an entertainment value that would be. Tonio Brown, John Gruden,

(01:03:50):
Paul Gunther, Montz berfect, I mean incognito. You think you
guy's got to be crazy not to go to Oakland. Well,
they listened because Rights and Washington did not draw the
short straw to have to do it, but his brother did,
and now he seemed to be changing his tune. I
think it's probably a lot on the plate for a

(01:04:11):
head coach to be able to handle it, because you
don't want to put anything out there that could, you know,
be a negative light on a player set in a
coaching staff meeting or whatever. Well, I'm sure John will
handle that, but it's not easy for them to, you know,
handle all that stuff. I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't
like it at all. I would not want to be
culpable for what if I just had a god, you

(01:04:32):
would you forget at some point the cameras are watching, Well,
that's what happens. And not even that you forget what
happens that the cameras are watching. There are things that
you have to do that must be done behind closed
doors that must not get out to the public or
to the players, which is his point. If you are
having a conversation about what players should stay in the
team or not say on the team, you're going to

(01:04:53):
give your honest opinion to your assistant coaches and or
your personnel guys, and you may want to keep a guy,
but the rest of your coaches feel differently, or vice versa,
and you're having these conversations behind closed doors, and then
you end up keeping the guy. You don't want to
kill his confidence. I think a coach always works when
you're authentic. Players will say that is am I getting
the real guy. But once you put cameras in a room,

(01:05:16):
nobody's real. Everybody's kind of faking it. You know that ends.
Everybody wants the real vibe. But there's a certain way
you can deliver the truth that keeps relationships stable and
can continue. There's how you say things, and when you're
trying to put together a team, sometimes you don't have
the time to sit there and say that, and when

(01:05:37):
you have cameras watching, you have to do that. Everybody
plays to the camera. If you put in your in
your workspace cameras, you would start playing to the camera.
Therefore you're not authentic. Therefore, I'm an employee watching my
boss playing to the camera, and I'm like, he's kind
of fake. And I think the way to keep a
locker room, even when you're losing games, which the Raiders
will keep it real with a player, you can't keep

(01:05:57):
it real with a hundred cameras around. It's it's got
to be very stressful. I know they always say it's
not a distraction, but it's it's got to be a distraction.
You're asked about it every day and then everyone watches
and picks it apart, and it's just great for us,
like it's great for the consumer. It's great for the media.
Way we get a behind the scenes, even if it
is playing to the camera view of what goes on.
And training camp is an interesting time. It's it's very dynamic,

(01:06:21):
you have cuts, you go through the preseason games, so
it's always very interesting. And this year is it's going
to be great. So Jim Harbaugh, it's not a shy guy.
And this week he once again shared his thoughts on
players skipping Bowl games. Here is what he told. Part
of my take, I think it hurts sir, their actual
their legacy too, just what they're about. You know, a
competitor is going to compete. Everybody talks about it. They're

(01:06:43):
a competitor. I'm a competitor. I'll compete in anything. I'll
compete at golf or I'll compete at Tiddley winks here.
People say that all the time, but then they actually
don't go play in a football game. That's to me,
you have a problem now with who you are is
a competitor in your legacy? It is. It is an
interesting thing where I do get the running back who's
like I've taken seven hundred hits. I'm going to take

(01:07:06):
out the Liberty Bowl and not play. We haven't had
a player leave a huge game like a semifinal game yet.
We've had players skip out of the Blue Bonnet Bowl.
I'm okay with that, But even there, I think it
is a dance. It's a little tricky. I completely disagree.
I just if it's a playoff game, then yeah, you
should play. This is what you're playing college football for,

(01:07:28):
to win, and that is a game that matters. And
even in those situations, if a player wanted to sit out,
he would get a lot of backlash. Yeah, but I'm
still on the player's side. This is your body. You
have to decide what you want to do. But if
it's a non playoff game, I mean, there are great, great,
high level competitive bowl games that matter, but they're not
playoff games. At the end of the day, they are

(01:07:48):
just to win that bowl and you can end your career.
Jake Butt in twenty seventeen and the Orange Bowl Tours ACL,
he was drafted by the Broncos, missed the whole two
thousand and seventeen season, played three games in twenty eighteen
season and towards ACL again and He just told the
Denver Post that he just he always feels like he's
gonna break. And that's one example. You remember Jalen Smith
yea horrible injury. And part of this might be because

(01:08:10):
Michigan lost in the Peach Bowl very terribly to Florida. Yeah,
and he's been losing bowl game so he's in that
position where he wants everybody out there. But look, legacy
and all that stuff. It sounds nice, it's it's very poetic,
it's very dreamy. Well, but at the end of the day,
these are these guys are sitting out bowl games, are
concerned about their future. Well, you also, bowl games are
a money grab. I mean, after about six of them,

(01:08:32):
you can get rid of all of them. There's about
six I love, and the semifinal games are great. I
like the rows. I always like the Orange. But there's
a lot of money grabbing, and I think players look
at it and think, Okay, you guys are just doing
this for the money. So I'm going to protect my money.
If college bowl games weren't just a money grab, right,
it would be harder for a player to sit out.
But it's easy when a player says, there's twenty eight

(01:08:54):
hundred people at this bowl game. Nobody cares. Why are
we playing it? And they're not going to pay that
school going to bring me back as a coach and
give me a career if if my leg goes like
you're a high level player, you're planning on playing football
and making money as a football player. Obviously you're getting
an education, but in the meantime, in this moment, that's
what you're concerned about. Finally, some have questioned how de'

(01:09:15):
angelo Russell will fit with the Warriors, and Steve Kerr
believes that he will be successful and sho how important
he will be to the Warriors. I'm excited to coach him.
You know, he's a great, great young talent or I
think he's going to fit right in with our group
and we're gonna need him desperately without Clay especially, we
need d'angelo's scoring, and it's up to us as a

(01:09:36):
staff to figure out, you know, how best to use
him and to shape the team, shape the offense, and
will figure it out. Russell is coming off of his
best season. He averaged career highs and scoring an assists,
twenty one points and seven assists, and he obviously helped
the nes snap a three year playoff drought, and they're
gonna be without Clay for most of the season. I
don't know why everyone is so skeptical of this move.

(01:09:58):
I think it's more of the defense of ends than
it is the offensive end, because we know D'Angelo Russell
is a good offensive player, but Clay is one of
the best two eight players in the game. So you
have Steph who isn't known for his defense, and then
you have D'Angelo Russell. That to me is a bigger
part of this scenario. He's also a multiple player, unlike

(01:10:18):
a Westbrook who's got a one hundred million dollars MVPs
players as they age. You know, Kobe at the end,
my game is my game. I think D'Angelo is still
a multiple player. I mean he has never won a
big playoff series. He's never gotten super rich. I think
if he comes into the system and starts winning and
he games get on television, he's like, oh, I can
I can move without the ball back And he's shown
that in the right situation he can excel and grow. No,

(01:10:41):
he's not. Everyone thought that his career was over when
he left the Lakers, and but he's he's proven otherwise. Yeah,
I think the key for a player like that comes
into a great system was Randy Moss multiple for the Patriots. Oh,
darn righty was for three years, Randy hungry. Yes, yeah,
I think d'angelo's multible and hungry. You and I agree
in that I like the move with an Well, that's

(01:11:02):
the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd line.
New J Doozable fall played for the jag the Giants,
the Jets defensive lineman. He'll be joining us next talk
about Sam Arnold's camp, which has blown people away, and
what's going on with the Giants. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd week dayson noon Easter nine
am Pacific. Lee J. Doozable played in the NFL. Just

(01:11:26):
retired for ten years, Jets, Jacksonville, Rams, Minnesota. Your last year,
Lee J M was in twenty seventeen for San Francisco. Correct,
So you got Kyle Shanahan was Jimmy G was not
there yet in the beginning. We traded for him halfway
through the season. Okay, So give me a what are

(01:11:46):
your gut feeling here on Jimmy G. Did you like him?
What do you hear about him. What did you see?
Jimmy aka Jimmy Smooth was what I called him in
the locker room. He was literally right across from me
in the locker room and we would talk all the time.
Jimmy wants to be great. You can tell that he
came probably from a New England background. He does almost
everything that Tom does, but he switches it up a
little bit. The way he preps and this his mindset

(01:12:09):
to the game is amazing to me. I think he
could be really great. It really hurt me last year
when he went down early in the season. Is he fiery?
Is he? You know Brady can be really Oh yeah,
Jimmy definitely could be fiery. He gets every A lot
of times he does the breakdown before we go out
on the field. That's how fiery is. And sometimes it
depends on what team you are. A lot of quarterbacks
on do that. You might get a defensive lineman or

(01:12:29):
a linebacker, but Jimmy is the one that calls it
up before we go out in the field. And as
soon as he came in, you could just feel it
was like a breath of fresh air for the locker room.
When he came and we traded for him and end
up winning six games down the stretch there. Year you did,
and he didn't have nearly the roster you have today
exactly his roster this year. They have to compete and
win this year, and I think there's a lot of expectations,
as there should be, because they've spent a lot of

(01:12:51):
money in free agency. They brought in Dfour, they traded
for him. They also brought in Kwi Alexander, who's a
really good player too, Champa Bay linebacker, super athletic, three
headed monster at running back. You don't know who's gonna play.
I know Kyle Shanahan's excited about that, having three good
running backs to play and can manipulate defenses and put
them all over the field. And all three of those
backs can catch the ball at the backfield, which is

(01:13:13):
very dangerous. Yeah, Kyle Shanahan loves that. By the way.
That's what he did in Washington, That's what he did
in Atlanta. He likes his backs who can catch, all right.
I come across his grumpy old man when I say
I don't like Baker Mayfield. It looks like he was
way too good at the chugging beer thing. I do
think quarterbacks are different. Michael Vick told me a story
once early in his career. Before a game he was
raw rod and Dan Reeves said, you're the quarterback. Yeah,

(01:13:34):
you're not a running back. What did you make a Baker?
Do I sound like an old, cranky guy? You actually don't, Colin,
Especially during training camp, your franchise quarterback can't be out
there chugging bears. Now, we've seen in the off season
Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, but the difference was that was
in the off season. You can't be doing that in
the middle of training camp when you're the face of
the franchise. I love Baker, his fiery attitude and the

(01:13:55):
way he comes to work, but there's there's certain things
as a franchise quarterback you cannot be seen doing on camera. Yeah. Now,
Sam Donald's the opposite personality you played with the Jets.
What are you here? And do you like Sam? I
hear a lot about Sam Donald that he's even killed
and now you want that as a quarterback. A quarterback
that's never too high or too low. So even when
he throws interceptions, is that I want to say he

(01:14:16):
just brushes him off. But he goes back to the
next play. All right, let's get it, guys. I think
if he can turn down his turnovers and maybe go
up on his touchdowns. He had fifteen interceptions last year
and only seventeen touchdown passes. If you can get to
like twenty five twenty six with that defense they have
and also having Levion Bell a little safety net for him,
I think he can be really great. When you when
you were with the Jets, there's always been this perception,

(01:14:37):
at least to me, there is some level of dysfunction.
I'm not Cleveland dysfunction perhaps, but some level when you
were there, did you ever sense that I wouldn't say
it was dysfunctions? One there, didn't you. We went eight
and eight my first year at Rex in twenty thirteen,
and then twenty fourteen we had an offseason. We had
a lot of issues going on in the locker room,

(01:14:57):
and they fired Rex and then we brought in bowls
in twenty fifteen, which we did when we went ten
and six, and that was the year where I feel
like it's kind of like this year's Jets team where
they brought in a lot of free agents. That year
we brought in Brandon Marshall, we bought Rivas back, we
brought Cormarti back, We added Buster the screen at at
our nickel slot corner, and James Carpenter kind of like
this year when they brought in CJ. Moley. I think

(01:15:18):
Brian Pool a guy a lot of guys aren't really
talking about as their nickel guy. He's made an immediate
impact in camp this year, and they've brought in a
lot of different guys, especially the offensive line, Kalicho Simile,
and they just traded for Alex Lewis. I think they're
building it the way we built it, from the inside out.
And anytime you build it through the trenches, you can
be successful. That's what Philadelphia has done through the years.

(01:15:40):
New England O line, D line secondary. Let's talk about
the Raiders. They'll be on HBO tonight. I worked with
Gruden at my former employer. He's a TV star yea.
So he was a football coach and they became a
TV star. And I've always said TV is really easy money.
It's hard to let go of it, right, So once
you're a TV star, you may go back to the

(01:16:00):
kitchen as a chef or the football team as a coach,
but you're still a TV star, and I think it
can be distracting. Now, Joe Gibbs left, went in the NASCAR,
that's a different business. Then they came back into the NFL.
But once you're a television star, it doesn't matter if
you're Gordon Ramsey, a chef, Robert Irvine, or you're John Gruden.
It's hard. You're always a TV star. I think they're

(01:16:20):
too distracted. I don't I don't love what I see
your thoughts. There's a lot going on there, as you said, Colin,
I mean, for one, you got hard knucks, which is
all automatically gonna bring a lot of hoopla around your team,
which airs tonight, matter of fact, so we'll see what
they've been doing in training camp. And then you're bringing
ab who not I want to say, a controversial player,
but it's had some issues off the field, but it's
a great player. And right now he's not even playing

(01:16:42):
for you, so that alone, right, there's there's a lot
going on with that. He's your brand new toy. Of
course you want him out there playing. You traded away
two first rounders and Khalil Magwood is a once in
a generational player Annamark Cooper last year. And my thing
is the conversation you get back for them, the first rounders,
they have to hit. They have to be playmakers right
away because when you trade away a guy like Khalil Mack,

(01:17:03):
you saw in Chicago what he did not just for
that defense, he had nodded that offense and the whole team,
the whole city of Chicago was behind that team and
it took them to the playoffs. So when you trade
away two players like that, I mean, you almost have
to win. In those first round picks. They have to
be good, yeah, I mean when you you know, it's
funny about like Antonio Brown, Odell back him a little bit.
Nobody disputes their talent. Pittsburgh's like, we're done with it.

(01:17:26):
Giants are like, we're done with it now Pittsburgh and
the Giants historically win the Raiders and the Browns last
ten years. Losers are like, we'll take those noisy guys.
I get people having unique personalities. Were you ever on
a team in your ten years where you did feel
that there was a guy I mean some people said
Rex Ryan was disrupted. Did you ever feel like there
was a player that it did pull at the fabric

(01:17:46):
of the team. I wouldn't say player. I would saying
like you said, Rex. Everybody thought Rex was a little
bit distracted. But as as players, we love Rex. He
was a player's coach and I feel like the energy
he brought day in and day out made us really
want to run through a brick wall for him. And
you saw his defenses, like every year his defense was
in the top ten. So I wouldn't say we had
a player for say we were like, man, this guy's
really draining us. The energies bad in the locker room.

(01:18:08):
But a lot of people said that Rex Ryan was
that guy for us, even though he wasn't a player.
But I feel like Rex, what he did in the
job that he did in New York really helped out
on the defensive in now when I played, we didn't
have a lot of offensive help when Rex was there,
and we didn't get a lot of that help until
twenty fifteen when Bows got there, when they signed a
lot of players in the offseason. But I feel like
Rex did a great job in New York. Lieje Dusabelle

(01:18:29):
is joining us ten years in the NFL. Your father
was Haitian. You came as a young child. You came
to Florida, you got Central Florida. You really are the NFL.
We say this all the time. You can spot basketball
talent by fifteen. You know Dwight Howard, Kobe Lebron football talents.
Different half the NFL is undrafted. You are the classic
NFL story where you go to camp, some undrafted guy

(01:18:53):
from a directional school comes in like you. Then ten
years later you're still earning checks. Go back to your
street when you when you go into these camps, now, yeah,
can you spot guys early on? You're like, I don't.
I don't even know where that school is. Do the
young unsung guys like you do? They stand out early?
It just depends to me. When I see an unsung

(01:19:15):
hero or unsung undrafted guy, it's usually based off his effort,
and that's what I always try to do. I used
to always make sure I had more effort than anybody
in the field. Nobody was going to outwork me. And
my father used to tell me this when I was younger.
When I was in high school getting ready to design
my Division one scholarship, I had the athletic director tell
me that nobody in our team was Division one worthy

(01:19:36):
on this high school team, and my dad would used
to tell me this every day, how bad do you
want it? Son? So I used to write that on
a piece of paper and put it in my locker
how bad do I want it? Along with what stats
I wanted that year, and I would look at it
every day. I put one on the back of my
door in my master bedroom and then my locker room,
and I would look at that every single day, and
it would feel me how bad do you want it?
People used to tell me all the time what I
could and couldn't do, but I would tell people there's

(01:19:58):
there's no way I'm not gonna make it to the
end l And I told myself coming into an NFL,
I was gonna pay no less than eight years. I
was gonna say marker with eight to ten. And I
made it to year ten. Great story, Lee j ten
years plus in the NFL does some jets broadcasting as well.
Pleasure to Meet You Hour three is next one more heard.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days

(01:20:19):
a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen
live or on demand whenever you like. Hey, LaVar Arrington
played seven years Pro Bowl or half of them. Second,
two time first team All American at Penn State. We're
gonna get some great college video against Tom Brady in
a second. No go anywhere. By the way, I just
want to read this to you. So this comes from

(01:20:39):
Evan Silva. Evan Silva is tweeting a Chicago Tribune article
on Mitch Trubisky. According to Bears observers at practice, Mitch
Trubisky's first two weeks of training camp uneven and occasionally frustrating.

(01:21:00):
Its funny because last year when they lost in the playoffs,
Matt Naggi's the coach, very clever, Andy redisciple, play designer,
super clever, Verry McVay, like Kyle Shanahan, one of the
four or five like super smart young guys under fifty right.
And when Trubisky on that final drive couldn't pull it
out visibly, you could see Matt nagy was because he
had the plays in the personnel, was so frustrated. Joy

(01:21:22):
and I talk about this when I watched my television set.
There's a big difference between Tim Tebow, who can win
with a defense, and Matt Prader. And then there's a
difference between that and trailing in a game late when
LaVar Arrington's on the edge, everybody in the stadium knows
the quarterback's got a throw. Here comes that set up.
All right, that's a great setup. But my point is

(01:21:44):
with Mitch Trubisky and Lamar Jackson, Joy and I talk
about this, it's easy to throw with a lead. I
don't see them as guys who can win shootouts in
this league. And I think sometimes your defense stinks and
you have to well that's it'. That's a tough one.
Do you like Trubisky? I do like your Bisky? What

(01:22:05):
do you like? Man? You know? I like I like
his ability to compete. I think that you know, as
he continues to move forward and what he's able to do, um,
a lot of it will come from the comfort of
what he's able to do playing with a defense that
that can accomplish what they can accomplish. You you have

(01:22:27):
the ability to to play from in front more often
than you'll probably play from behind. You got a decent
running game. I'd like Trubisky's game. I think he's a competitor.
I think he sees the field well, and I think
with some more experience I think he'll be I think
he'll be right up there with tomorrow Dak. Prescott meant Trubisky,
you gotta have one your GM. I'd take Dak. Dad

(01:22:49):
gets a lot of heat. I take Dak in one second.
I don't want to make a hypothetical decision on that
based upon the fact that they both bring some some
pretty strong qualities to the table. I think Dak has
played well at times, but I think there's been times
you can look at Dak's game and you could probably
make some of the comparisons that we make to Trubisky.

(01:23:12):
I mean, I really do. I you know, I think
they're both competitors. I think that they're both going to
continue to grow and mature as as players in the
National Football League. I think that it will come down
to having stability in Chicago versus Dak has stability, and
for what it's worth up until now dealing with the
contract situations, but he's had stability. You know, Garrett has

(01:23:35):
been there. You know what you're going to get in Dallas,
and and they got a pretty dog on good offensive line. Well,
Trubisky last year of health he had helping stability, and
Lamar Jackson had helping stability, whereas Josh and Baltimore you
do have that. Yeah, and Josh Rosen, by the way,
did not have stability and he flamed out, So that
I haven't necessarily stayed the stability in Chicago yet. I

(01:23:56):
think there still needs to be a little bit more,
um you know, with with the stability of the head
coach and just how things are done there. I just
think it's been a little turbulent for a decade. Yeah,
so I just I think Chicago is not so much,
but Baltimore, I definitely, there's definitely stability in Baltimore. Let's
um so, Baker's chugg and beer and everybody says, Colin,

(01:24:19):
we knew you'd overreact, And to that, I said, yeah,
I don't love it. It's training camp. You're a franchise quarterback.
I don't love it. It's not the end of the world.
Would you make of it. I just think that those
are the back storylines to what has happened with quarterbacks
that have gone to Cleveland. And I think people want
to see Baker Mayfield do well. I think they want

(01:24:40):
to see him succeed and to see him, you know,
maybe in a moment being maybe irresponsible over what he
represents to the city of Cleveland and to the team itself.
I think it was poor I think it was poor
taste because of what his opportunities are. It is, and

(01:25:05):
I think a lot of people like like him for
who he is, right, But I think the backstory of
why there is maybe trepidation and why there is so
much concern is it's airily simular to what you saw
when Johnny Manziel came into town, right, and and you
gotta assume that, well, that's the reason why it's the

(01:25:28):
same team, same city, and and it's almost airily simular
and twelve quarterbacks cocky, same thing, the same thing. So
so it's it's you're looking at at him Mayfield like, Okay,
we want to see this guy succeed. You you have

(01:25:48):
the tools. I mean, it's one of the more talented
loaded UH offenses coming into the season, and they got
guys on defense as well. If he fails, what is
the reasoning behind him failing? These videos? There you go,
that's there you go. So now it's not a story
today only because it's a story to set up the story. Yeah,

(01:26:11):
so if it becomes a story that Baker Mayfield isn't
playing well. Baker Mayfield is struggling. Baker Mayfield can't read
the defenses. He'll look at this, You'll look at you,
look back. He should have been playing more attention to
doing this versus chugging bears frat boys now at at
different events. By the way, Tom Brady signed a new
deal and he put his house on the market briefly,

(01:26:33):
which tells me he was signaling to New England. I
love you, but you're not gonna embarrass me here. I'll
put my house out for sale. Me and the supermodel,
we'll move. I thought it was classic Brady, which is
even to the end now he's super competitive. Um, you know,
I want to show a video of you and Tom Brady. Okay,
Michigan Penn State, tell me what happened. You saw, Brady

(01:26:56):
when we were whooping them. You led big in the
was that was when Tom Brady was just Tom Brady
and LaVar Arrington was the name. Yeah, you were the
big name us. Think about that forty three right there,
Brandon Short eighty six, Courtney Brown out there. Look at
Tom looking at his arm. He's getting scuffed up. Look
at this hustle. You bury him here. Look at this
hustle though. Look, I mean, you know, I'm like the

(01:27:17):
guy you forget about. But he did pretty well at
some point in ty. Yeah. You know, that was a
really really interesting game because we were whooping them so
good that that we were pulled off with maybe ten
minutes left in the game. And I'd like to believe
that the legend of Tom Brady probably started in Beaver
Stadium in nineteen ninety nine in the fourth quarter with

(01:27:39):
three and a half left, and he threw two crossing
patterns to Marcus Night and beat us with the same
exact play. And it still hurts me to this day
to even by the way, did did you face Drew Breese?
He was at Produce same time, So that was the
quarterback of the conference. You know at the time, Tom

(01:28:00):
Brady splitting splitting time with Nson right, Drew Henson is
starting in the game right then we played this guy
right here. I mean, that was the legend. That was
the guy that you had to go out there and
play against and try to be Drew was the better
college quarterback? Oh absolutely absolutely. You remember you remember Drew
brees sack touchdown of our ring. Of course, look at

(01:28:22):
this move. Look at that now, they'll say that, oh,
he's an athlete. You know, I was always down played
for being an athlete, not being a football player. But
I'd like to believe I was a football player. Call it.
I played football. I studied their lineman. I knew they
were big, strong lineman. We knew what our game plan
needed to be. You know, I think he had been
sacked five times coming into that game. And as you

(01:28:43):
can see you out of whole lights, I got two
on them in one game. I blocked a field goal
with my chest. I don't like to sound like I'm bragging,
but I'm like, it's kind of like a big deal.
In college, man, can I ask you this, Did you
know Drew when you looked at film that week? Did
you know he was great? Oh? Absolutely, I knew that.
I knew that Tom Brady was special. You did in college?

(01:29:04):
Absolutely absolutely? I knew that Drew Drew Henson could play
in the league. I played against UH, against Antoine Randol.
There were a lot of very, very talented UH players,
and in our time, that was the last time the
Big Ten had a bunch of great card It was
Brady and Breeze. Yeah. Can you imagine that. I remember
Drew one night played Wisconsin. You can go look it up, Goule,

(01:29:26):
go look this up. I'm going to rain Man. Uh.
Drew Brees played Wisconsin in Madison. It was a night game,
beautiful night in Wisconsin. And I think Drew Brees, I
could be wrong, through for four hundred and fifty yards
and John Gouley will have this. It's per due at Wisconsin.
It's Saturday night. Uh. And and it was like fifty
to something and Drew Brees through for I think five

(01:29:47):
football field. Was that two thousand? Might have been two thousand? Yeah,
I think you're right. Yeah, Um, all right, let's go back.
And by Gouley when you get it, just shouted out
because you know I'll be right. So when when you
look at this camp, the Raiders now are on hard
knocks and Cleveland's making a bunch of noise. Were you
ever on a team Washington or the Giants where you

(01:30:09):
did feel in camp it wasn't quite buttoned up? Could
you tell anything in camp? Does it give you any sign?
My entire career in Washington, six years, the entire time,
always loud, always loud, bro When when the off season,
when the offseason campaign. You know, win with free agents,
win with draft picks. But what are you doing during

(01:30:31):
the season. Like I told you before, last time I
was on the show, we talked about guys that I
played with my rookie seasons, So you're talking about they
brought in Bruce Smith, Dion Sanders, Mark Carrier, Irving Fryar
was on that team, Dana Stubblefield was on that team,
Connart Lane on the offensive side. Like I said, Brad

(01:30:53):
Johnson was the starter. They brought in Jeff George as
the backup. You have Brat Johnson and Jeff George. So
you were very noisy going into season. Always do you
think it hurt the team and the season? I honestly
believe if you're going to be as bodacious and the

(01:31:14):
things that you do to to support what your fan
base is looking for, you have to have internally the
structure in place for you to have success as as
a franchise. And you said it was the loudness too.
Was it too loud buttoned up? It needed to be

(01:31:35):
an organization that encouraged being who you are and having
the stars that you have, but but understanding that at
some point you have to play football. There has to
be development of football players. There has to be development
of game plans. To win, there has to be development

(01:31:55):
of US as an organization and as person now, and
I don't think that. I still think that the Rids
can struggle with that to this day. Oh, I think
you're right. That's my thing with the Raiders. I'm not
disputing they've got talent and they're interesting, but this sport
comes down to game plans and developing players. Well, we
talked about we also talked about in shows prior of

(01:32:19):
franchises and football teams. Right, you're looking, you're talking about
football teams. We're not talking about franchises. If we're talking
about a franchise. Now, if you have noise coming into camp,
it quiets down. It's managed a certain type of way
things are. There is noise in Pittsburgh right now. Right,

(01:32:40):
there's been noise over the last couple of years. Let's
see how they handle it. Let's see how they handle
it and where they end up versus where Oakland ends
up or where Cleveland. I still say Cleveland doesn't turn
into this superpower football team because they're a football team.
They're not a franchise. Steaders or a franchise, and we'll
see how that plays out. LaVar Arrington, Great Senior loved

(01:33:04):
the Brady and Brees stuff. So crazy, man, Like, you
really hurt my feelings. What's up? I was happy about it,
but you know you lost. You lost the games, you know,
but we lost. We beat Drew Brees though we beat
perduced crazy about that, by the way, what's the answer
on this? Okay? So here's the thing. He had a
game against Wisconsin where he completed fifty five passes and
had like nearly five hundred yards that they lost. He

(01:33:27):
also threw four picks. I didn't care about that. I
just said he threw for a bunch of yas. He
tied there. It was ninety eight. He tied the record
for completions fifty five completions against Wisconsin out through eighty
three passes. Wow. Perdue did not have much of a
power running game at that time, if I recall, but
Wisconsin did. They had a guy by the name of

(01:33:47):
Ron Dane. In that we went to multiple rolls bowls, yes, yes,
and they won all of them by then, and they
won all of them. Olivar Arrington Joy, the news good
teams is the herd line news. Oh, we just saw
some old Tom Brady footage and he is still playing.
He just got a two year extension through the twenty

(01:34:08):
twenty one season, but twenty twenty and twenty twenty one
are actually void years, which is similar to the other
guy we were just talking about this, Drew Breese, who
has a five year extension that he got in twenty
sixteen that includes three Boyd years. And when Tom Brady
was talking about it yesterday, he kind of compared himself
to this any other guy on the team. That's you know,
just just trying to prove himself. Yes, it's really the

(01:34:31):
reality for most guys in the NFL. You know, I
don't want to think that I'm any different than everyone else.
Like it's football is a tough business. It's a production business.
And you know, I'm ready to go this year and
that's really what matters, and that's where my focus is.
It's it's a unique situation. It is what it is.
That's a good line. So whoever said it, it's a

(01:34:52):
very pertinent. So, like I said, there's a lot of
guys who are who have you know, one year left
on their contract. U you know, so the situation. I
got one year ago and we'll see what happens. So humble,
just another guy might as well be a backup punter.
This is what This is what drives people crazy about
Tom Brady, wonderful human. Why what's wrong with that? The

(01:35:14):
I mean, come on, you're not every other guy who's
going into a year of the contract where you can
be cut. That's it's not the same thing. Sure sounds
like he thinks that though. It's what the Patriots do.
They convinced themselves that they're underdogs every single year. I
don't know how they do it. Mind control makes no sense.

(01:35:35):
What do you mean? What do you mean it's Tom Brady?
It seems to bother you as a Pittsburgh native in
a Miami It drives me insane. I have a lot
of respect for what the Patriots have done, because how
can you not, especially Tom Brady. But it is, it's
amazing how they do this every single year. It's like
us against the world. Everybody's doubting us, nobody's giving us,

(01:35:56):
you know, any credits. Just another guy who's going to
prove himself and make sure I don't get caught next year.
I love Belichick's mind control. It's fascinating, it is. But
you know what though, this is part of the reason
why Brady is so great, because it's it's not easy
to get to the top, but it's even harder to
stay there. And part of the reason why the greats

(01:36:19):
are consistently great is because they convince themselves that they're
not great, and they have to keep working, and they
have to keep reinventing themselves, and they have to keep
changing their body and paying attention to the trends and
seeing what's happening in their surroundings. They get, as Greg
Popovich says, they get over themselves quickly. Yes, like everybody's
into themselves at twenty four? Can you get over yourself?
Tim Duncan got over himself really quickly, and Tim's like,

(01:36:41):
I want to win a bunch of games and titles.
And then, by the way, I'm not just saying this
being glib. This is hard for everybody. Yeah, absolutely, and
even even you know Jordan is not somebody that anyone
would consider to be humble, but he found ways to
get motivated. Every single time. He'll have this mentality that
everyone was against him, well, which this joy. Phil Jackson

(01:37:01):
came him and said, you want to score sixty? Do
you want to win? Michael had to get over himself
a little bit. He had to get over the scoring titles, right,
and Michael, as a businessman, looked at it and thought,
I want to win over score. So I think Michael
Jordan to some degree got over having to score. Yeah,
I mean everyone has to go most people. I won't
see everyone we get Some people just have that mentality,
but most people do have to get over themselves. But

(01:37:21):
that this is really part of the reason why the
Patriots aren't so great every year. It's fascinating. I'm making jokes.
But if you can convince yourself that you have to
work harder than everybody else and you have something to
prove and that nobody believes in you like that is
a great motivating factor to stay working hard when you
have as any championships as they do, and when you
have had this success that they've had. Let's go to

(01:37:42):
the Browns. So Freddy Kitchens wants to make it known
that zero insider information will be leaked from the Browns
organization under his watch. He delivered that message yesterday, responding
to some criticism from former offensive line coach Bob Wiley. Listen,
Bob wasn't on a contract, all right. He forgot tollerboy
that he wasn't under contract. Get talked about retiring forever,

(01:38:04):
all right. So sometimes when a person says something, they
have to be made to feel relevant. For the days
stuff like that have ended. You're not going to get
see it, they're fired immediately. That's the way we're running
this organization. And I can take it. John Dorsey can

(01:38:27):
take it. We won't crack. I'll promise you. I don't
think he had to tell us all that stuff. Really,
I don't want to be too hard on freddy k.
I agree, you're right, You're right. I really don't. I
don't like this. I don't see any point in responding
to him at all. Just next question and kill the story.
It's not worth it. There's nothing about it that's going

(01:38:48):
to help in responding. And then you run into the
situation which he did, where you start making these outlandish
threats that really mean nothing. It's organizations that don't have leaks.
Don't have leaks. Because we've discussed earlier everyone's on the
same page. You have one direction, you have one mantra.
You trust the leader, you trust the leader, and you
trust each other. That's how leaks don't happen with the Clippers,

(01:39:10):
the Spurs, the Patriots. Everyone does their job, knows their role.
There's not a fear of constantly being fired. Literally, what
you're saying is the opposite of it. When people are
afraid for their jobs and afraid for their future week,
that's when leaks happen because they have to control their narrative.
And if they do get fired, well, why did you
get fired? It's so dysfunctional over there? Were you a
part of the reason why I'm rooting for the Browns

(01:39:30):
this year. I actually do want them to be successful,
and I don't want to be too hard on Freddy Kitchens.
He's in a tough such direction as it is, and
it is very early finally, so this is interesting. We're
just discussing this as well. Mitch Rbiski is coming off
a productive sophomore season under what was then the first
year head coach, Matt Naggie. He was Coach of the Year.
They had twelve wins and went to the playoffs. But

(01:39:52):
now we're taking a look into this season, and Bear's
quarterback coach told ESPN, this is the time to push
the envelope, if not now when coach Naggie is a
great coach to play quarterback for, specifically in these types
of settings and training camp, because he allows you to
go out there, test some throws to see what you
can get away with. We're constantly pushing that mentality. And
now the report of Bears camp is not quite has

(01:40:16):
been uneven and at times disappointing. You know. Again, like
their GM, like their coach, like their roster, love their defense.
Usually all my belief systems start with coach quarterback. I
don't love their quarterback. I mean, I'm there with you.
I first of all, I think that the Packers are
going to win this the division is I think that

(01:40:36):
Aaron Rodgers is one of those chip on the shoulder
guys and he has everything to prove this year. And
you've had a lot of people talk bad about him
in the past couple of years and doubt of him,
and now he's in a fresh new situation and I
think that they are going to be very good. I
don't think that the Bears are going to be bad. No,
I just don't trust Mitch Shubinsky as that guy in
the moments and can he lead you to a comeback victory,

(01:40:59):
can make that clutch throw in the big moments and
that's what matters in the postseason. Yeah, could they become
the Chargers, a cold weather version of the Chargers? We
know the roster's good, right, we like a lot about him,
But do you ever trust them in a big spot?
That's where I feel like with the Chargers. They got
to show me they can win in that big spot
because I know the talent's there. I know Chicago's talents there.
But boy, if you give me this Chicago team against

(01:41:22):
Aaron in the playoffs or Golf in the playoffs, mcvaann
the playoffs, Kyle Shanahan in the playoffs, and I don't
see it, Philadelphia, when I don't see it. I hate
to use cliches, but it's a game of inches and
those crucial moments, those split second decisions of the difference
between winning and losing in the playoffs in the NFL,
and I don't I don't know if I can trust

(01:41:43):
that yet. Yeah, Joy with the news. Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by. The Herd yesterday, the AFC, Today,
the NFC, which I think is the superior overall conference.
The three word game that's coming up best for last
in the Herd. One more. The Herd streams twenty four
hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app.

(01:42:05):
Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.
Yesterday we did the AFC, Today we do the NFC.
I believe with all teams. I started doing this with
the NBA about ten years ago. You can really describe
very succinctly, very quickly with three words, which forces you
to get right to the point on your teams, the direction,

(01:42:26):
who's important, what matters. We call it the three word game.
Today we start with the NFC. Here we go Dallas Cowboys,
America's noisiest team. Listen. Jerry Jones is the most public
owner in American sports. Mark Cuban's probably second. I couldn't
tell you who's third. I would prefer my owner be

(01:42:46):
Stan Cronky owns four teams. You never see him, but
as long as Jerry runs at their public My problem
is this offseason, this is a very good young team
with many special players. I don't think we need an
update on Zeke, Dak and Amari's contracts on a regular basis,
but they've gone public for years. This is the most

(01:43:08):
public they've been. I don't love it. Eagles, Wentz and
for all. By the way, that's only three words because
we used the symbol for and Listen. They gave Carson
Wentz the big contract. They shipped Nick Foles out. They've
told you the direction. He's our guy. Am I concerned
about the injuries? Absolutely? Do I think he's an elite talent. Oh? Yes,
I think he's in the Andrew Luck class, even the

(01:43:30):
Patrick Mahomes class. I love their offensive line play, I
love their defensive line play. There's so much about this
organization I like. I would say if Wentz is healthy
and I knew that Super Bowl favorites. That's how strongly
I feel about Philadelphia offense, defense, coaching GM. But it
all comes down to Carson Wentz and his health. Giants,

(01:43:51):
QB Verse, Newbi Eli and Daniel Jones. This is the storyline.
They just had cluster injuries at wide receiver, putting more
pressure on Eli Manning. They have upgraded their own line.
Evan Ingram's a terrific young tight end. Sequon Barkley is
a home run hitter at running back. But in this
league you can have all of those components. Is your

(01:44:12):
quarterback capable of carrying you when your defense doesn't show up?
And the Giants defense as a whole bunch of holes
Olivia Vernon gone, Landon Collins gone. It's quarterback QB versus
the NEWBI Daniel Jones, Redskins, Haskins for trouble. I think
Dwayne Haskins is going to be arguably the best quarterback

(01:44:33):
out of this class. But it's a dysfunctional organization. They've
been hit and miss on drafting. They generally overpay for
free agents. Trent Williams is their best offensive lineman and
he wants out. I think if you have to play
Dwayne Haskins early, he is the type of college quarterback
that needs a year. Some guys don't. Some guys have
the perfect college coach moves him right into the NFL.

(01:44:56):
I think he needs a year and it could get
ugly Tampa Bay, Winston or Luston. This is the last
year for Jamis. I know that was awful. I think
Bruce Arians and those weapons guarantee that Jamis is productive.
Can he be a grown up? Can he stay out
of the headlines? Can he be an alpha yet lead
men and not get in trouble? Do or die? Year

(01:45:18):
for Jamis Winston Falcons Quinn better win. Dan Quinn's a
good coach. Good coaches get fired when they don't win.
Matt Ryan is now moving out of its peak years.
They have very good personnel. They have drafted very well,
strong owner, strong, GM strong quarterback. What's that mean? Pressure

(01:45:39):
now on dan Quinn the coach. Carolina Panthers never Cam
tell roller coaster Cam. They could be great, or they
could be seven and nine. Shoulder surgery will have to wait.
Christian McCaffrey, for the record, has been a great addition
wide receivers. They're average, They're good, better than good everywhere else,

(01:46:00):
but I never can get a read on them. Saints,
get over it. Listen, it was a bad call. You
got to get over it. You still have a good
old line to great quarterbacks, aging loss mark ingram. You
got to get over it. This division's way too good.
The NFC is way too good for you to hold
a grudge against the NFL. Let's go to the forty

(01:46:23):
nine ers in the NFC West. Give me more. Jimmy
real simple. The rosters better, they've got the coach, They've
upgraded old line. I don't love their corners defensively, but
they have the pieces now. They can win this division.
Not saying they will, but I want to see Jimmy
Garoppolo eight starts six and two. I need to see more,
but I'm very hopeful. Arizona Murray up offense. Reports are

(01:46:48):
Kyler Murray's amazing. Kind of shocked to be honest, but
then maybe it's Oklahoma head coach Lincoln Riley Baker and
Kyler Murray walk into the league. They're ready to go.
I think it's a fascinating story. I don't know how
it's gonna turn out. Join I say this, it's the
great mystery of the NFL, and I can't wait. Rams No,

(01:47:09):
hangover here, folks. They're good, all right. They got to
the super Bowl. They've drafted well last couple of years.
They have all the components. Owner GM coach quarterback Jared Goff,
according to players, was voted top ten in the NFL.
No reason to step back. Aaron Donald still in his prime,
Cooper Cup comes back at wide receiver. They're good. Seahawks

(01:47:30):
Russ got his. I don't know where to go with this.
I think Russ deserved every penny. Their offensive line is
still man. Bobby Wagner's great, but they're very young. Defensively.
The division's gotten better. Listen, they had to pay Russ,
so they got four draft picks turn them into eleven.
They're gonna rely on some draft picks to really have
to hit this year, and they may. Pete's a great

(01:47:52):
developer of young players. They're gonna need some of their
young guys, like rookies to pop. Let's go to the
NFC North Bears. Traubisky or false whisky. I know that's awful,
we used it last year. I just don't know what
he is. First year bad, second year better, disappointing. Now
in camp, I don't know what he is. Do you
know what he is? I know the defense is great.

(01:48:13):
I know Naggie's good. I like a lot about him.
Winnable division, winnable division. I have no idea what I
get with him. I gotta watch. I think he has
a very low ceiling. Detroit Lions Matt or Dormat, Matt Patricia,
Matt Stafford or are they in fourth again? This division's
really really good. Matt Patricia brought Trey Flowers over from

(01:48:36):
New England. People say he's a genius. I still can't
figure out why he has a pencil in his hair
with a laminated play sheet. Pencils don't work on laminated
play sheets. A lot of people think he's really really good.
We'll have to see Matt Stafford. I need more big
games and big moments against the Packers, Vikings, Kirk better work.

(01:49:00):
I do think Kirk Cousins is gonna rebound this year,
and I think he's gonna have a very nice year
because I think he's a very nice quarterback. But in
the end, he has not been good on Monday night football,
Thursday night football, big games against rivals. Kirk better work.
Mike Zimmer's a good coach outside of offensive line. I

(01:49:22):
like their personnel across the board, really like their receivers,
really like their linebackers. It's time for Kirk Cousins self
up and finding the Packers. LeFleur or left ceiling. I
think it's gonna work. I think Aaron and Matt Lafleur
are gonna work. I think the organization has drafted defense
last two years and been smart with their defensive free

(01:49:43):
agent money. I think Devantae Adams is a star and
Aaron Jones is good at running back. They develop offensive lineman.
I think it's gonna work. I like him to win
the division. But if it doesn't work, the excuses are
over because this is the best defense Aaron's had in
it least five or six years. See you tomorrow. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at

(01:50:05):
noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the iHeartRadio app.

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