NFL new hires, Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rodgers, and the Browns

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:26):
wild Tuesday, live in Los Angeles. This is the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
We're on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio and FS one. Joy
Taylor is joining me, and we have all sorts of
moves in the last hour. Great college coach is now
going to Carolina. The Giants just hired somebody nobody's heard

(00:49):
of Cleveland. Brown's no idea where they're going at this point,
not getting the interviews they want. And Joy's joining me,
Joy Crazy Morning Crazy. Yes, I mean, look, it's the NFL.
There's there's a lot going on right now, all right,
so the jobs are all filling up. Joe Judge just
got hired by the New York Giants. I think the

(01:11):
Giants panicked. I think Dave Gettleman panicked. This is a
bad move to me. I don't know much about Joe Judge.
I made two calls this morning in a text. All
I know is this is that New York City is
rich and powerful. It's the number one media market, and
it creates panic, overspending, overreaching, in insanity. And this guy,

(01:36):
this guy is an assistant. He is not ready, in
my opinion, to be a head coach of the New
York Giants. I just feel it's a reach. Now. I'm
not saying it didn't have talent, but number one. Belichick's
coaching tree has mostly been a disaster. Why Because proximity
to genius does an equal genius. I could work next

(01:56):
to Elon Musk for ten years. His IQ was so
greater than so much greater than mine. I'm not going
to get bits and pieces of it. Andy reads coaching
tree is excellent. Everybody works. Why because he is a
mentor and a teacher and a big bear, and he
puts his arms around you and he shares his knowledge,
whereas Belichick's a genius and his coaching tree's mostly been

(02:19):
a mess. By the way, what was the part of
the Patriots this year that massively underachieved wide receivers. Nikkio Harry,
the rookie first round pick, never developed. Mohammed Sadu, Why
did it take so long? Tight ends, nobody's productive. I
mean to me, I think it's a big whiff. And
I think Ian O'Connor's a writer in New York. He

(02:40):
said it this morning. They wanted Matt Rule. Matt Rule
at Baylor took the Carolina job. Matt Rule worked with
the New York Giants. He's from I think Long Island.
The Giants wanted to interview him in this morning. They
saw Carolina give him seventy million dollars not even talk
to the Giants. The Giants started getting crushed on social media,

(03:01):
and they finalize the deal for Joe Judge, who was
potentially going to take the Mississippi State job, which is
the eighth best job in a college football conference down south.
So you know, I have a theory on this as
higher a's and b's higher ss Gettleman's a B. Joe Judge,
You'll feel indebted to him. Joe Judge is somebody that

(03:22):
won't push back. Mike McCarthy no interest in the Giants.
Ron Rivera, no interest in the Giant tried rather coached
against him. Jason Garrett, you know, didn't show a lot
of interest in the New York Giants. I'm not sure
if they loved him, but there's candidates out here, Urban Meyer,
no interest. Matt Rule was their guy. When Matt Rules

(03:43):
signed this morning at about eight o'clock Pacific, the Giants
panicked and hired a guy who, at best right now
is ready to coach the seventh or eighth best team
in the SEC. I think this is what happened. John
Dorsey insecure guy, loud guy hires Freddie Kitchens because he
knows Freddie Kitchens feels indebted to him. Freddie Kitchens won't

(04:06):
push back. I mean, if you're gonna hire somebody in
New York, why wouldn't you hire Josh McDaniels. And I
think McDaniels is a tad overrated and there's a lot
of ego. But Josh McDaniels would roll his eyes at
old school Gettleman. He would push back on Gettleman. He'd say,
we're winning championships. You haven't won anything. And so Josh
McDaniels is a threat to Dave Gettleman, and so Dave

(04:27):
Getleman goes with a guy that listened to him, won't
push back, He gives him his first job, he feels
indebted to him. I don't like the move, and I'll
say it again. So Eric b Enemy is an offensive
coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs. Have you watched their
offense for the last two years? By the way, the
last time and Andy Reid offensive coordinator left Doug Peterson,

(04:51):
he went and won a Super Bowl. All of Andy's
assistants work. I mean John Harbaugh, Doug Peterson, Matt Naggie,
they all work. None of Elicheck's do. So you got
Eric Bienemy, who had the MVP last year, has been
key in the growth and development of Patrick Mahomes. And
all Mahomes has done is be smart and mature and
grow and get better. You didn't take that guy, but

(05:14):
you took belichick coaching tree, and Belichick's coaching trees a mess.
And you take a wider receiver coach whose wider receivers
this year were the worst in the league. That's a
panic move. I mean, you can see through this. This
is like a used bar of neutrogena soap. Baby, you
can see right through this thing. Gettleman's a bee. He
hired a c because they panicked. And by the way,

(05:36):
this is I've been saying this for five or six years.
Joyce heard this a couple of times. New York is
so powerful and so big and so rich, and there's
so much pressure that teams are. Outside of the Yankees,
the whole city's a mess. Those pro sports teams are
poorly owned, poorly run. They panicked, they overreachs, they overspend,
and the Yankees are just in a sport with no
salary cap. So they just they just say, Garrett call,

(05:56):
here's three hundred and thirty million. Nobody else can compete
with it. Garrett Cole could have fit other places. No,
I mean half the team's in Major League Baseball, maybe
seventy five percent. Just couldn't afford to even make an
offer to Garrett Cole or CCSA Matthew when the Yankees
paid him twenty million more than anybody else could. So
I got Joe Judge may be a fine coach, but
to take a Belichick guy, not even Belichick's Belichick's the

(06:20):
best coach on that staff. McDaniels is the second best coach.
Brian Flores was the third best, and he took Miami.
Cross your fingers. Hopefully that works. But there's nothing about
this move. I like, there is nothing about it. I
like he got one coaching tree in Kansas City that
works with everybody, and they got a coordinator who's a
former player who has been nothing but brilliant. In the

(06:43):
last three guys that have left Andy Reid have all
hit home runs. I mean, Matt Naggie say what you want,
has made Trabisky about as good as he. We won
a division with Mitch Drubisky. That's all I'm gonna say
about Matt Nagie won a division with Mitch Drubisky. Doug
Peterson boom Super Bowl, and I had my question about
Doug Peterson beats Belichick in a Super Bowl. John Harbaugh,

(07:04):
there's another Andy Reid guy. Maybe you've noticed he coaches
the best demon football. Everybody from Andy Reid works, Nobody
from Belichick works. And you take the wide receiver coach.
I just do not get it. Wow, And I think,
I think this is what New York creates. It's so
big and so powerful and so loud and so rich.
It creates this pressure and people panic. I've seen the

(07:26):
Mets panic the Giants panic, the Jets panic. Thank god
the Jets didn't fire Adam Gase. I thought they were
going to overreact and do that. I was like, God,
don't fire Adam Gaze. Don't cave. By the way, we've
seen the Giants cave before. They caved on the ELI
Manning thing. You saw what happened with the Eli Manning
think the organization caved and and then they benched Elion.
They freaked out. And this is what has happened to

(07:48):
the Giants, a once proud organization that has patted themselves
on the back too long. Their old school, their GM's
over as skis, it's it's it's yikes. Wow. Congrats to
Carson Wentz and Mike McCarthy. That's who you get a face.
By the way, let me let me shift to Mike McCarthy.
He you know, it's easy this morning, everybody like he

(08:10):
wouldn't have been my first choice. But let's be fair
to Mike McCarthy. He got all the arrows, he got
all the criticism for the Green Bay situation. So let's
go to look at green Bay McCarthy's last year and
this year without McCarthy points per game now let's not
talk about record and defense points per game. Green Bay

(08:33):
didn't improve yards per game. Actually, they were better with
McCarthy yards per play, they were better with McCarthy third
down percentage, They were better with McCarthy. Second half points
a game adjustment points better with McCarthy. Does that mean
Mike McCarthy's brilliant. No, But what it means is Mike

(08:55):
McCarthy is not a dope. I don't love the higher
because it feels safe to me. He feels like Jason
Garrett with a better resume. He's not really creative. He
is a grown up. His strengths are Garrett strengths. He's
a grown up, he's an adult. He's got an even
keel personality. I think he has a pretty good eye
for personnel. McCarthy's weaknesses, I think our Jason Garrett's weaknesses.

(09:21):
He can be gets stuck into ruts. I don't think
he's super creative. You know, hands authority to people on
the staff that he probably shouldn't hand authority too. But
let's not be crazy about Mike McCarthy here. The Packers
record is better because the Packers finally spent money on defense,

(09:43):
and the Packers defense is better this year because they
finally spent money on defense. Don't blame that for Mike McCarthy.
The offense in green Bay slightly ticks down. It ticked
down in totally yards yards for play, third down percentage
and adjustment points in the second half. So I've alwa
said Green Bay Aaron Rodgers is not sorry, cheeseheads. He's

(10:04):
not the easiest guy to coach. And McCarthy complained for
years that Ted Thompson wouldn't get him big time defensive
players through free agency. So and I don't want this
to be that Mike McCarthy can't coach. Just because somebody's
not my first choice doesn't mean I don't think they're
good coaches. Mike McCarthy is. And now we know he'll
go to and Oh against the New York Giants next

(10:26):
year with a Dallas Cowboys, So that's the good news
for him. We got a lot of stuff going on.
Carolina stole the Giants coach from under right under their
nose Matt rule. Plus Tom Brady's future. He is now
acknowledging he will play somewhere else. What does it mean

(10:49):
that is coming up? Be sure to catch live editions
of the Herd weekdayson noon Easter nine am Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app.
All right, welcome back. Joe Judge takes the New York
Giants job. Of course he does. If it's offered, you'd
take it. I don't like to move at all. I
don't understand it. I think there was better candidates out there.
I'm not a huge Josh McDaniels fan, to be honest

(11:10):
with you, I think there's a lot of ego. He
was a disaster in Denver. He's never done anything without Brady,
you know. But I'll say Belichick's coaching tree. Mike Rabel
did not coach coach under Belichick. So don't give me
a Mike Rabel thing. It's Bill O'Brien. Penn State got
better when Bill O'Brien left. Fact, they got better when
he left. And Houston, you watch him play week after week,

(11:32):
you think they're well coached. I mean, they can't be
that poorly coached, or can they Maybe it's just a
Shaun Watson, But nobody looks at Houston and goes elite coaching.
You look at a lot of teams in the NFL.
You're like elite coaching. You don't do that with Houston.
You think they're talented. That's what you think. You think J. J. Watton,
Shaun Watson will floor d Hop You don't think well coached.

(11:54):
So I don't get taken. You know Belichick's for I mean,
Dante Scarnecki is probably his best assistant. H McDaniel second,
Brian Flores was third. He's gone to Miami. Joe Judge,
I don't get it. By the way, Tom Brady is
now saying publicly, he talked to Peter King about this.
He had a quote, bang say, I want to play football.
If it's with New England, great. If I have to

(12:16):
go elsewhere, great. Brady is now acknowledging he wants to
play football. He likes New England, but he would play elsewhere.
Let me just say this, even for great athletes, forget
the average guy, but even for superstar athletes, it almost
always ends choppy. Michael Jordan to the Wizards, Patrick Ewing
to the Sonics in Orlando, Magic a team to the Raptors.

(12:39):
Joe Namath ended up out here in Los Angeles. Brett
farve goes with the Jets, had one good year with
Minnesota than a choppy year. Emmett Smith to the Cardinals
your best. If you got your money, just tie a
bow around it. Class dignity. You know, Derek Jeter did
it the right way. John Elway, Super Bowl MVP exits
did it the right way. Brady's not good enough to

(13:01):
elevate average people anymore. We all know that. So you know,
he can't go to a rebuild, so he'd have to
get the perfect situation. I don't think the perfect situation
is out there. The Chargers are anonymous in Los Angeles.
I like their personnel, but they've already got an old
quarterback and they're gonna draft one this year, So yeah,
you'd have some young kid breathing down your neck. Tennessee

(13:24):
Titans really your brand? Who was nine and seven franchise historically?
Colts Gazelle's not moving the family to Indianapolis, even though
I think it's a perfect fit. The supermodel's not giving
up her career to go to Indianapolis, although they have
an excellent Panera bread near the stadium. It's a fine
city with lots to do. I mean, I think it's

(13:46):
a perfect time to retire or stay in New England.
That that's my gut feeling. I've seen so many athletes
great athletes. Unless unless there's a money issue, which there
clearly isn't, you can wrap a bow around this career.
Tony Gonzalez talked about this yesterday on the show. Is
nobody questions if Tom Brady can still win games? He
just won his division. That's not what it's about. According

(14:10):
to Tony Gonzalez, I wasn't who I used to be,
and I knew it as far as an athlete on
that field. What told us before? How Jerry Rice. I
was talking to him while I was still in the
you know, feeling really good, and I said, when did
you know that you wanted to retire? And he said,
I'm gonna give you some advice. Played to the wheels
fall off. And that was Jerry Rice. And that's what

(14:30):
Jerry Rice did. I did not want that. I didn't
want that father that was taking his son or daughter
to the game and saying, you should have seen that
guy back in the day, that he was good, that
he's a that's not who he is anymore. Listen, Tom
Brady could end now with eleven straight AFC East titles,
eleven straight playoff appearances in eight of nine AFC championships,

(14:50):
one team, one coach, goat Seacrest out. That feels incredibly
clean to me. It's like Johnny Carson. Johnny Carson retires,
does one last great show, bye bye everybody, and then
he goes plays tennis. He's not dinking around on after
school specials and crappy you know stuff on goofy Networks.

(15:11):
Johnny Carson's like Seacrest out, great career, great last show,
Let's go play tennis. I think it's a perfect time
for Brady to retire. I'm not predicting he's going to.
I just think I like clean endings. I mean, I
even get along with my ex wife. I'm not a
big fan of having these choppy, uneven endings in life.
I like, you know, a clean, solid, dignified, indisputable. It's over,

(15:36):
but let's look back fondly of it. That's I think
it's a perfect time to retire. I think McDaniels is leaving.
You've got assistance leaving. They're gonna draft a quarterback to
breathe behind your neck, and they don't spend any money
on top free agents, so forget getting tight end or
wide receiver help. I mean, Mohammed Sanu is about as
risky as they get. So I think it's a real

(15:57):
choppy place. I think your division's getting better. I think
the AFC's got younger quarterbacks. I think the game is
sort of moving away from him slightly right now, that's
my gut feeling on it. I like the Tony Gonzales way.
Wrap a bow under that, put it under the tree.
Come back next year, open the present, like come back
in a year and say, gosh, I missed the game.

(16:18):
It's so much fun. But I'm glad I'm retired. I
like the Jeter way. I like the Gonzales way. I
like the John Elway way much more than I like
the Nameth way, the Achem way, the Ewing way, the
Michael Jordan way. Joy the news, No, no, this is
the herd Line news. Well, for a while it looked

(16:39):
like there was not enough candidates for all the spots
that were available. And now we're down to one coaching
spot left. And who's that Quite a few candidates the Browns,
and they've added another candidate to their list. They were
poorly requested permission to interview Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz.
The Browns are also scheduled to interview Patriots offensive coordinator

(16:59):
Josh McDaniels and Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski this week
later this week, but with every other coaching vacancy filled,
they can pretty much take their time now. Schwarz was
a disaster in Detroit. He was twenty nine and fifty one.
That's with Matt Stafford. He had one playoff appearance in
twenty eleven and lost to the Saints in the wild

(17:20):
card round. He was there from two thousand nine two
thousand third. You get a lot of bravado, a lot
of alpha, which there are some things I like, but
there's a lot of reports out there that he and
Doug Peterson kind of bath head sometimes. So I like
it in that he's been a head coach before ye,
so he doesn't have to learn how to be a
head coach. The other candidates are Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric

(17:42):
the Enemy, forty nine Ers defensive coordinator Robert Sala, Bill's
offensive coordinator Brian Dable, and Raven's offensive coordinator Greg Roman.
I think any of them would be a good choice
as well, even if they haven't had head coaching experience.
I mean the thing about what the Browns is. I
really felt like there was only one for the job,
and that was Mike McCarthy. Well, they're gonna probably go

(18:04):
after Josh McDaniels. And because Cleveland now is so desperate,
Matt Rule's gonna work. In Carolina, He's gonna work. He's
a great program builder. He did it at Temple, and
he does it fast. Matt rules the new Urban Meyer.
He goes somewhere and within a year and a half
he turns it around. He's a program builder. I think
Cleveland is gonna do what they do, and they're gonna

(18:27):
give McDaniels a fat contract and let him do everything
and run everything. And I do I'll say it again,
Josh McDaniels. I have my reservations about He was a
mess in Cleveland. He was stubborn, he was strong willed.
I didn't love his vision on personnel. I did not
like it. That was at the time, that was an

(18:47):
organization that had some momentum. I am not now. I
do think he's smart, but I think you put him
in Cleveland with a impulsive owner and Baker Mayfield and
outspoken receivers. I think it's an attract The job to
Josh because they have a lot of good offensive players,
and so I think he's a He's turned O's he
loves Baker, so yeah, well he you know, I think

(19:10):
a lot of people love Baker's something to that though.
The new head coach coming in, buying into the quarterback
that is there for at least this year is a
positive to me. I mean, but they're not going to
draft another quarterback this year. No, And you're also have
Baker on a rookie deal, but you still have O'Dell.
You still have I mean, you still have all those
pieces there. But people I like McDaniels, I think it's

(19:32):
it's not really on McDaniels whether he's going to be
successful or not. I don't think. I think it's more
on the ownership to Cleveland Browns. Like overall, do I
think that he's going to turn them into a Super
Bowl organization. No, But if he can get them afloat,
which is basically what you're looking for now in Cleveland,
that's going to depend on if they're going to actually
allow him to be the head coach for enough time

(19:52):
to prove whether he's a good head coach or not.
Cleveland standards are so low and they're I mean, Matt
Rule is a better candidate than Josh McDaniels to me,
I think he has a proven track record as a
head coach. Urban's a better, Ron's a better, McCarthy's better.
I think Jason get Garrett too. Josh McDaniels credit he
wasn't successful in Denver bad, so maybe he learned from

(20:14):
what did not work there, and he didn't Obviously we
didn't all love what happened with Indianapolis, but he didn't
take that job. So for whatever reason he didn't take
that job. He didn't feel like he was going to
be successful there clearly. So it's it's possible that we
shouldn't put too much on what he's already done because
maybe he's evolved, like maybe he's learned from what his
failures were there, or maybe he's a really bad decision maker,

(20:37):
because like he turned down Indianapolis with Andrew Luck. Now,
nobody could foresee Luck retiring. He didn't know that. I
said at the time, you do not turn down Andrew
Luck going into his prime. Now it's easy now in
hindsight to go, well, Andrew Luck quit. Josh McDaniels is
not a great heat. By the way, he fought hard
for Tebow in the first round and he turned down

(20:59):
a new luck. I'm just trying to be positive. I'm
just saying I said I got nothing against Josh McDaniels,
but I'm stiver lying to get that out. I can
line up stuff with Josh where I'm like, no, think
you so. Brett Fires won his last two seasons in
Green Bay with Mike McCarthy as his head coach, and
now obviously Mike McCarthy's with the Cowboys, and five thinks
it's a perfect match. I think is a good fit

(21:22):
for Mike, and I think it's a great fit for
the Cowboys. You know, no one knows what the end
result will be, but I believe that he is Taylor
made for that job. And I'm not here to not
Jason Garrett the job he did. I'm talking about from
here and into the future. I think he'll bring a
level of flash and toughness, but along with that a
high level of confidence and believability. When he gives this

(21:46):
talk each week before they play whoever, whether they're an
underdog or the favorite, I think that his players will
believe that they him win every game. And I think
he'll be good for dog. I really, do you better
start develop running games because in thirteen years and he
never had a single top ten rushing attempts. I mean,
he does not have Ezekiel Elliott. I know, but you

(22:08):
can still by the way, does Pete Carroll have Ezekiel?
Everywhere Pete Carroll goes, He's got a seventh round Chris Carr.
But that's his identity though. Well, and he did have
Marshawn Lynch No, I mean, but Marshawn left. They led
the NFL in rushing again, like I mean, like John
Harball likes to run the football. I think Mike McCarthy
is a high quality candidate. Whether Mike McCarthy is going

(22:31):
to be successful similar but in completely different ways, is
the ownership. Is he going to be able to coach
the team? Because he went from having no owner to
having the most involved owner and probably all of sports.
Now that's a different dark contrast. So that to me
is whether that's going to determine the success of Mike McCarthy,
not if he's a capable coach. Finally, Lamar Jackson's first

(22:53):
playoff experience as a rookie last year ended with a
twenty three seventeen loss to the Chargers, and that lost
still haunts him. He said he's ready for redemption this
week against the Titans. He said that game motivated me,
it still motivates me. I can't wait to play this
week coming up. This playoff game is a super Bowl
game because if you don't win, you're out. You're going home.
It's the next season. So I'm cheating every game like
it's a super Bowl game until I'm there. We haven't

(23:14):
really talked much about this matchup because we're kind of
just assuming that it's the Ravens are gonna win. Well,
they're convincing. What are they favored by nine and a half?
I'd probably I feel like it's a lot I do.
But you know, it's funny this weekend. I never take
big favorites. I like Baltimore to win by more than
nine and a half, and I like Kansas City to
win by more than nine. And I think Kansas City
and Baltimore are really good, rested, healthy, and their defenses

(23:37):
are really hot. I'm gonna see what the weather's like
in Kansas City before I take that, because it's supposed
to snow and be very cold this weekend. It is
so but I if it's not, then I'm gonna take
the Texans points. This I'm not so sure about. But
it is actually Lamar Jackson's birthday today too, Capricorn season. Wow,
how about that? Happy birthday? What a go Lamar? Easy

(24:00):
kid to root for, I'll tell you that. Yeah. No,
I'm just seeing me a great game, incredibly easy kid
to root for. Joy with the news. Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by the third line. All these
young quarterbacks to me are so great because they're all
humble and they're coachable. There's one exception I'm not going
to get into it, but other than that, I love
all these young quarterbacks. I love Lamar, I love Mahomes,

(24:22):
I love Darnold, I like Daniel Jones. I mean, they're
all Kyler Murray. They're all like coachable, young, humble kids
who realize what a great opportunity this is you're running
an NFL franchise. I just love watching all these young quarterbacks.
Not that I don't love Breeze and Brady, but I'm
I'm okay with him retiring, Like time for the next guys.
The league is in good hands. Yeah, I'm a guy
like all the new guys. Let's bring in Reggie Bush,

(24:43):
who's kind of new to us at Fox. Great to
have him on the eleven year NFL Super Bowl champ
five Saints, two Dolphins, and a couple other NFL years.
Let's talk about So I said this about Mike McCarthy.
Every coach has DNA. Yep, Okay, like every player, Like
every player's got certain things they do when they don't.
And like any rito says, I watch a player and
I say, here's what he can do, here's what he can't,

(25:05):
and I build my system toward him. Every coach has DNA.
Here's my concern about Mike McCarthy. He does not. He moves.
The minute the running game struggles, he's out. He just
does not. And I'm like, Okay, this is an older,
veteran run blocking old line and Zeke. Does that concern
you at all? That's the biggest question. Is he going

(25:26):
to be able to be patient enough in the run game?
Is he gonna be able to hand the football off
to Zeke twenty twenty five times? Because that is the
first requirement when you sign up for the Dallas Cowboys
head coaching job. You have to be able to turn
around and hand that football off to Zeke. That's not
in his DNA from what we've seen in Green Bay.
I also don't think the same system that he ran

(25:47):
in Green Bay will work in Dallas because it's not
a pocket passers league anymore. The top five quarterbacks from
from this past season, Jameis Winston, Dak Prescott, Philip Rivers,
Jared Goff, Matt Ryan pocket passer quarterbacks, with the exception
of Dak Prescott. All those quarterbacks are sitting at home,

(26:08):
every single one of them, and so padding those stats
as a QB the way it used to be when
he won the Super Bowl, that doesn't directly translate to
wins anymore. That's not how teams are winning games anymore.
You talked about the young quarterbacks that you like to
watch now, Deshaun Watson. They win that game because his
ability to be able to scramble and extend plays with

(26:29):
his legs. Same thing with Seattle, same thing with other teams.
And then Mike McCarty leaves Green Bay. His last four
years in Green Bay, I think he was eleven, sixteen
and one, so he struggled with one of the best
quarterbacks arguably to ever play this game. What happens to
Green Bay the next year after he leaves, They got
the number one seed in their thirteen and three And so,
to me, Mike McCarthy has to reinvent himself this time around.

(26:53):
He cannot. The same offense that worked and won him
a Super Bowl is also the same offense that got
him fired in Green Bay. Yeah, I mean, I don't
think he's a I don't think he's a bad higher.
He he doesn't. There doesn't feel like there's a lot
of juice to it. Yeah. Um, I mean there's some
things he does well. But I do think coaches, you know,
Pete Carroll, Pete Carroll, it's it's uh. Defenses are aggressive

(27:14):
and they run Marshawn Lynch left, they still try to
run the football. That's his DNA. You had Sean Payton,
Sean Tens. I mean, what was Shawn's DNA there? Sean.
So when Sean first got to New Orleans, he was
not a run the football type coach. He wanted to
throw the football a lot because Drew Brees was in
his prime. Exactly because Drew was in his prime and
he could throw it well a lot, and we were

(27:35):
throwing a foot. We were throwing the ball around thirty
five plus times a game. Yeah, we won the Super
Bowl because we ran the football well on top of
having Drew Brees and our defense played well. When Mike
McCarthy won the Super Bowl, he had the number two
scoring defense in the NFL. Ever since then, he hasn't
had a top ten defense, right, and you also mentioned

(27:55):
the running game. He hasn't had a top ten run
run game. I don't think at all. Yeah, he has team.
By the way, Aaron Jones also was with Mike McCarthy
and they just didn't develop him. Look what he's doing
right now. Yeah, So no, I think it's I think
these are real concerns. I do think coaches, it's like broadcasters,
running backs players, we all have certain DNA or comfort
levels and we tend to go back to it. This

(28:16):
is you know, Andy Reid loves quarterbacks, love developing passing games.
But Andy has struggled through his life to create great
run games. And then Andy's a great coach. But that's
his DNA. And listen, Dak Prescott played well this year.
He was a number two radio passes to total yards.
He was a number two passes. So he played well

(28:38):
this year, probably the best he's ever played. And look
where it got them. Okay, so Matt Rule go to Temple. Overnight,
they're like two and ten. Two years later they're ten
and two. Baylor was a grease fire as a as
an athletic department one and eleven to eleven and one
two years later. Super bright a year in the NFL,

(28:59):
but he's never coached in the National Football League. Now,
I will say this, Reggie the trend now in the NFL,
we saw it with Gruden and Kyle Shanahan. He got
us what is it a six year seven seven year deals?
It's seventy million. So whether you like him or not
as a player, he walks in with all the power.
You don't like him, you're cut exactly. I think that's

(29:21):
why it's gonna work. And his first order of business,
which I believe could make or break his career before
it even starts, is to either keep Cam Newton or
to move on from Cam Newton. And that that's that's
big because you have to get that position right right?
Did that quarterback head coach relationship is so important to

(29:43):
winning football games, and you have to get that one
right off the back. And so let's say he gets
rid of Cam tom because I don't believe in Allan,
Josh Allen, Kyle, I think Kyle bad Kyle. I don't believe.
I'm not sold yet on Kyle. Now, he's a transition piece.
And so if you get rid of Cam Newton and
then you're scrambling for the next couple of years, well,

(30:06):
your career was over before he even started. So he's
got some big time decisions to make early in his early,
early in his career, before it even get started. Same
thing with Mike McCarthy. He's walking into a situation where
they got to sign Dak Prescott, have to give him
what he wants, and if they give him what he wants,
there goes. That's Mark Cooper's gone. You know. So now

(30:26):
you're losing weapons and on the receiver side, and you
know it's it's gonna be tough, man. I mean, it's
gonna be interesting to see how it plays out, but
it is going to be tough if they don't get
those right. Yeah. My guests on Matt Rule, who I
think is gonna work? And I think this is a
real I like Matt Rule. It's a real trend. I
mean he is, this is who the Giants wanted. Then

(30:47):
he got hired by Carolina because Carolina has got this
new way. Think he's got this new owner. He's not
part of the old boys club and he's doing things
his way different. So this is what we see now.
San Francisco gave Shannahan and Lynch six years, Cruden got ten,
Matt Rule gets seven. So where has the NBA tends
to empower the player. The trend in the NFL is

(31:09):
empower the coach. Don't bail on him. I think Cleveland
to get Josh McDaniels would have to offer him six years.
Then I think it has a chance to work. That's
that's a long time for an unproven coach. I know,
seven years, Like we just bypass him to four years,
and we're gonna try to figure out and see, you know,
if this really is gonna work, this marriage is gonna work.

(31:30):
Let let me let me argue on this. If it
doesn't work, billionaires can just write a check. Yeah, but
you have to send the message two players. He's the guy. Yeah,
Because if you look at every coach that's working in
the NFL, Shanahan's been empowered. Balichick's empowered, John Payton's empowered.
John Harbaugh got a new deal empowered. It's not because

(31:51):
remember these are these organizations are all owned by billionaires
who can write a forty million dollar check. It's a
rounding here, right, But you gotta send the message. In
the NFL, Okay, the locker room is owned by the coach.
And so I actually like what Carolina did. Like because
if you had a young college coach with a four
year deal, bad first year Reggie, that second training camp,

(32:14):
guys like Cam Newton are out on him. I get that,
and I understand that. But as a player, I'm saying, Okay,
let's pump our brakes for a second. Let's see if
this is going to work out the way we wanted to.
Seven years is just a long time to be locked
in for somebody who is not proven in this league,
who hasn't won games in this league. I love what

(32:35):
he did at the college level, but the NFL is different.
This is not Temple and this is not Baylor. There's
none on the schedule. Texas Tech is not on Carolina's schedule,
but Matt Ryan is. You got to see the Saints
twice a year, and Atlanta. Okay, come back. I got
thoughts on two and Joe Burrow. I think Two was
a far better player. I'll defend Two on this over

(32:56):
Joe Burrow. Multiple thoughts from Reggie Bush on things happening
over the course of the weekend big playoff games. It's
The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Herd weekdays and noon Eastern a Empacific. By the way,
I just had a New York Giant fan tell me
Colin you didn't like Daniel Jones either and he was great,
to which I would say, Daniel Jones wasn't great, but
he was promising. I got nothing against Joe Judge. I

(33:18):
got nothing against him. Um My, guys say smart, so
I would imagine you're around. He was in sabans down
in Bama. He's with Belichick. You know, he's a he's done,
no nonsense guy, who's a smart guy. I just think
it's a that is a big reach. It's a big reach.
He's never been a head coach. This is New York City.
Uh it's it's it's a big reach, and I think

(33:40):
there were just other better candidates out there. I do
understand this, though. I will say this. Josh McDaniels has
a Lane Kiffin quality. He does turn people off. So
Josh McDaniels, I'm not as high on him as everybody else.
I think he's smart, but he's never done anything without Brady,
and he bombed in Denver and he alienated everybody, and
then he turned down Andrew Luck in his prime. I

(34:03):
don't get it. So whatever Reggie Bush is joining me,
let's let's I want to talk about two things. Let
me talk about Twah for a second. I am a
big believer. So next is it Monday nights? The National Championship,
Clemson LSU. I like Clemson. I'm not going to ask you,
are you broadcasting? Are you doing a preyor post game
prow for that or anything? No? Okay, so you can

(34:23):
tell me who do you like? Okay, here's what I
worry about. So Tua goes from high school, he goes
to Alabama. He's on the bench. The first time they
ask him to play is against George in the National
Championship twenty five NFL guys the most pressure in the world. Halftime,

(34:45):
he's trailing, he comes in and takes the game over.
As an eighteen year old's remarkable. Joe Burrow had no
success until everything lined up. This year. He got the
right coach, he got the right schedule. Last year he
had a four game stretch with LSU's talent with no touchdowns.

(35:05):
Here's what I worry about. Tuah is a special, all
time transformative talent. Joe Burrow is older than Lamar Jackson,
He's a fifth year senior. Finally, when it all lines
up for him, he wins. Doesn't it concern you if
you're drafting either One guy came in as a high

(35:26):
school kid into a pressurized situation. It was not ideal.
It was Georgia National title trailing, win the game for US.
That's why I think we're going nuts on Burrow here. Yeah,
I think UM for Tuah obviously, I think everything you
say is spot on. I think the only thing that

(35:47):
would hold people back about TOA is his injury. Right
if Tua never got injured, he'd be the number one
draft pick right now by him, question, without question. He
has the fastest release of any quarterback in college football.
Right now. That ball is in and out of his
hands in two seconds, accurate out of max and very accurate.
UM And so I do believe to Ah is the

(36:10):
better quarterback, but right now, Joe Burrow is just the
hottest right and this offense that he's running is in
New Orleans Saints offense. That's exactly the same offense that
we won a Super Bowl with. It's the same offense
that they run right now. Um in New Orleans. It's complex,
and he's making NFL type throws. Um. I've watched Joe

(36:33):
Burrow all season long. It's not just it's not just
about he's finding the open receives, finding the receivers, but
he's also putting that ball. Look at this, I mean
the separation of some of these receivers of passage that
he's making are tight windows, and he's putting that football
in places where only his receivers can catch it. In
the last in the last playoff game where they beat Oklahoma,

(36:54):
two of the touchdowns that he had in the first
half were back shoulder throws. Great coverage by the defense,
but he put that ball in places where only his
receivers have ketch the football. And I think that's the
thing I'm most impressed about, is just his ability to
be able to throw guys open. Because there's a difference
between throwing to an open receiver and then throwing your

(37:15):
receiver open. And that's one of the reasons why he's
been successful up until this point. And that's why they're
so dangerous because the receivers can run, he can extend
plays with his legs, and he's finding the open receivers
and he's putting that football in places where only his
receivers can catch you. All right, Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthy,
Washington has hired now Ron Rivera, the Giants have hired

(37:36):
Joe Judge. Wide receiver guy. Matt Rule goes to Carolina.
So the NFC teams are checking it all off. Cleveland
is the only team now that has an opening. Let
me ask you if would now again, we can all
bang on Cleveland and Cleveland fans will lecture us. Whoever
they hire. It's the guy they've always wanted. Do you
believe that it is? If you were a coach with

(38:00):
Baker's last year, how would you view Baker as a
head coaching candidate, Because it's easy to love him two
years ago. We've seen he's bad off on the microphone,
he's bad to the medical staff. He may have just
gotten Freddie and the GM fired. If you were a coach,
how would you view I don't want to even have

(38:20):
an opinion. How would you view Baker? I would view
the asset or liability. That's a great question. I think
right now, this early in his career, I would view
him more as an asset. Okay, we were ten years
into Baker, and this is what I'm getting. I would
view him as a liability. But because he's still very young,

(38:42):
still very immature, still has a lot to I think
offer the game, and he's very talented throwing the football,
but he's got to clean up a lot. I would
view him more as an asset, but an asset that
needs work and an asset that needs to um reinventing
himself this offseason, the same way Lamar Jackson did last year,

(39:05):
the same way Mark Mike McCarthy has to do this
time around with the with the with the Dallas Cowboys. UM.
I like Baker, but he's got to grow up, and
he's got to grow up fast because, UM, he's got
too much talent around him to not be ultra successful. Um.
He's got a great run game, he's got great receivers,

(39:26):
great time. I mean, he's got all the pieces, and
so he needs to become a leader. That's where he's
going to elevate his game. If he can become the leader,
the guy that we can depend on on and off
the field, the guy that we can depend on in
post press conference interviews to say and do the right things.
If he can become that, I think then the Cleveland

(39:47):
Browns organization takes on a different um, a different narrative. Yeah.
Whoever the Cleveland Browns higher memo to Cleveland, give them
a long deal. Yeah, you kay, time you need time
with him? Yeah, and Baker's out spoken. If Baker sense
his weakness, he's gonna be like, I'm saving my career,
not you're Bacon. You got to give Cleveland's coach six

(40:07):
years because by the way, Carolina just set the bar. Yeah,
seven years for Matt Rule and then Niners and then
John Gruden, and you empower the coach. Yeah, And it
has to be someone with the strong personality. It cannot
be anybody with the weak personality or who was a
little bit unsure of himself or what he's trying to
bring to Josh McDaniels feels right, Yeah, Yeah, could be

(40:30):
what about Eric being to me man. I know we
keep throwing his name around, but I just don't understand.
This guy's been part of, you know, a top five
offense for those since twenty thirteen, developing Patrick Mahomes coaching
Tyreek Kill, all the Travis Kelsey how come? Plus all
of Andy Reid's assistants hit home runs. They all work.
I want to Belichicks. Belichicks is terrible. Yeah, all right,

(40:54):
good stuff. Next hour, Peter King stops by. We'll go
to Dallas. Matt Mosley from Baylor, and a cowboy reporter.
Our two coming up. Thanks, Ready to the Herds, sir,
one more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Oh,

(41:15):
here we go our number two, Peter King in less
than fifteen minutes, live in LA. It's the Herd, wherever
you may be and however you may be listening iHeartRadio,
Fox Sports Radio, and FS one. What a fun day
for us. The Giants hired Joe Judge would not have
been my choice. Smart guy. Saving Valicheck doesn't mean that
the coaching trees from those guys work, but that's where

(41:35):
he comes from. Cleveland now is the only organization that
doesn't have a coach. By the way, Ron Rivera is
off the market. To me, he was the best candidate.
That was the best candidate available, Ron Rivera. I thought,
you know, if I had to put all my coaching
candidates up there, Rivera was number one. And I think
you get into guys that if Schomakin work, Mike McCarthy,

(41:56):
Jason Garrett, they're not the sexy hires. They're kind of
safe hires. But I will say this, Joy Taylor's joining me.
It's very interesting. I've known people in my life that
are bad job pickers, and I tell young people Joy
all the time in my business, say no, be patient.
So this is an interesting So a lot of people
are worked up because Eric B. Enemy African American candidates

(42:18):
he has interviewed for Cleveland. But I'm telling you right now,
B Enemy's gonna get offers. I'm not sure I'd take
the Cleveland job. So everybody's freaking out today. Eric B.
Enemy is somebody I would look at strongly. Does he
just take the job because it's the first offer you

(42:38):
and I have been in this business. A long time.
It's very important where you go. I think I've said
this to you before, not that you needed advice, but
I've said it to everybody. Don't chase money, chase good management.
There's a sea of money if you're talented. Okay, there's
a sea of it. You and I know this. We've
had a lot of jobs and we feel lucky now
at management. We've also had bad management. Talented people cannot

(43:01):
overcome bad management. Belichick was fired in Cleveland because you
don't make the final decisions. Doesn't matter how competent or talented,
you are chumps by somebody who is not as talented
or competent, who has more power. That's why in college football,
because you control recruiting. If you're a good coach, they
all succeed everybody. There's never been a great coach who
fails in college. There have been great coaches who have failed.

(43:24):
In the NFL. Pete Carroll has been fired twice. Saban
got fired. He's a great coach. Belichick got fired, Andy
Reid got fired. In the NFL. It's different who owns
your team. Tony Romo says, this never been a guy.
Go look at the dynasty's been no bad owners and
no bad defenses. We pay attention to quarterbacks. Tony Romo,

(43:46):
go look at his career. Didn't have a lot of
great defenses, you know. So you start looking at Aaron
Rodgers has never really had He had one really good defense.
Aaron Rodgers won a Super Bowl. Okay, Peyton Manning, I
thought had one great defense in Indie. He won a
Super Bowl. So I look at the I'm not trying
to take a shot at Cleveland, but I look at

(44:07):
these guys. Everybody's freaking out with Eric B. Enemy and
my takeaway is for Josh McDaniels and Eric B. Enemy,
these are talented coaches who are going to get offers.
Think about this. Be patient, is what I'm saying here.
I've seen this my whole life. Chip Kelly, I love
Chip Kelly. I know Chip Kelly. Why did you take
the UCLA job? That's the second best job in LA?
What are you doing? That's the fourth best football job

(44:30):
in LA? After the Rams, USC the Chargers, then UCLA.
Mike Dunley, he's a friend of mine. He once took
a Clipper job with Donald Sterling as the owner, and
I remember thinking, what are you doing? You just got
to the Western Conference Finals with Portland. Just take you
got money, you're a smart guy. Take two years off,
you'll get a job. I look at the thing about
one year from now, one year from now in the NFL.

(44:51):
If if Eric b Enemy is patient, and if Josh
McDaniels is patient, because we all know Cleveland just fires coach.
In one year, Atlanta great owner and Matt Ryan could
be open, and they're gonna hire an offensive coach. The
enemy's an offensive coach, and Josh McDaniels is an offensive coach.
In one year. If Atlanta doesn't win, dan Quinn's got

(45:15):
a year, they're gonna hire an offensive coach. You get
a great owner and a great quarterback. That's a great job.
Houston in one year, Bill O'Brien's quirky, you get Deshaun
Watson and great place to live in Houston and all
sorts of skill people. Belichick could Bolton New England. I
mean he's gonna be seventy, right, So you could have

(45:37):
Sam Darnold that Jets roster. Now they have a legitimate GM.
Sam Darnold, Joe Douglas is a legitimate GM. They got
all sorts of players. Now that they don't have players.
So I look at this thing. Now everybody's got you know,
we've got a couple of really good candidates out there.
Cleveland is so toxic, so toxic, I Josh McDaniels or

(45:59):
Eric b Enemy, I would just not take the job.
And I'm not picking on Cleveland. The facts are the facts.
Belichick's the last guy to get five years there. I mean,
they just and McDaniels is. Remember if Josh, If Josh
McDaniels fails, it's over. He did not take Andrew Luck,
which I thought was a massive mistake. He wanted to

(46:20):
draft Tebow, massive mistake. He takes this gig, he'll make money,
but he's a coordinator for the rest of his life.
And Josh McDaniels, again, there's some Lane Kiffin here. He
wants to be a head coach. This is not I
do not think Cleveland's a very good job. I would
not take this if I was an elite candidate. This
is a little more strategy to it than it appears.
I'll tell you this. I think the Giants is an

(46:41):
underrated job. I don't know, Joe Judge. I think it's
a bit of a reach. But let me tell you
the New York Giants job. You have two very good
defensive linemen under twenty five, Leonard Williams, Dexter Lawrence, star
running back, appears to be a very talented quarterback on
a rookie deal for three more years. Gettleman's kind of
goof fee, but he'll be out of there in a
year if it doesn't work. The Giants job, to me,

(47:03):
is underrated. You got Washington perennially underachieving. That could be
a couple wins a year. They have also a number
four pick the Giants do, and the three teams drafting
after the Giants all need a quarterback, so you could
leverage that to get multiple ones over the course of
the next three years. I think the Giants job. This
is another reason I'm critical of the Giants. This Giants

(47:25):
job's a good job. It's got a lot of things
you're looking for. Maras are stable, Daniel Jones is talented
and cheap too, excellent defensive lineman under twenty five, a
star running back. The old line's not great, but it's
not a total rebuild. And they went and got Joe Judge.
Like to me, boy, oh boy, Joe Judge in Cleveland.
I wouldn't spend a lot of time on like it's

(47:47):
like maybe that's all they can get. Maybe I'm nuts
on this. I think the Giants job now Gettleman turned
some people off. I get it, but he's out of there.
The bottom line is, if Mike McCarthy would have taken
that job, he had to said getting Gettleman out of here.
Gettleman would have been on the first subway, you know,
out of town. So I don't know, let me let

(48:09):
me move to this. So a lot of you, it
really hurts my feelings. I think I am negative toward
Aaron Rodgers. I am not negative toward Aaron Rodgers. I
think Aaron can be difficult to coach. I think at
times he's arrogant and condescending and not the greatest leader.
But I think he is an all time talent. I
will say it this weekend, and maybe Aaron Rodgers hasn't

(48:30):
been lucky his whole career. He's gotten every break this year.
He wanted the coach fired, Boom, he's gone. He wanted
the team to spend money on defense. Boom they did.
Chicago Detroit imploded in their division. He got home field
and a buy at home, and now he gets injury
ravage Seattle without their running game, and if Minnesota upsets

(48:56):
San Francisco, they get the Vikings at home and Kirk
in the biggest game of Kirk Cousins life. The other
thing is they got to play the AFC West, and
the best quarterback, Patrick Mahomes they faced, didn't play. And
they also faced the NFC East, which was the worst
division in football, which allowed them to beat the Giants

(49:19):
and you know, beat Washington and it beat the Dallas Cowboys.
They've gotten every break this year. Like the excuses are done.
All they have to do is be injury riddled Seattle,
who now beats Philadelphia flights all the way back to
the Pacific Northwest. Now we'll flight all the way to Milwaukee.
So they lose it. They lose a day traveling and
they're all beat up, and they don't have their core strength,

(49:41):
which is their running game, which they along with Baltimore
and San Francisco, have really lived. They have great quarterbacks,
but have lived off that dominating time of possession offense.
Aaron's gotten a lot of breaks. Also, Green Bay I
think is the healthiest NFC team left and that's some
of its luck now that they're there. Have been years
Aaron hasn't been the luckiest quarterback, but boyd they get breaks,

(50:05):
beat injury riddled Seattle at home, and then it's potentially
Minnesota and even if you face San Francisco, they humiliated
you last time, which psychologically is at an edge. It's
hard to crush somebody and then face them again and
inspire your troops. Yeah we rolled them by thirty. They're
really dangerous. That's hard to do. It's much easier to
say we got humiliated. We got revenge. They humiliated us

(50:29):
on national TV. It's much easier to do that than yeah,
we beat them by thirty. I swear they're really good.
So this is kind of the year for Aaron Rodgers.
This is the opportunity. It has been totally for all
those years you said, Brady, I mean home by Bills, Jets, Dolphins.
It's paved. This year has been paved for the Green

(50:50):
Bay Packers. Peter King is around the corner. Matt Rules
now coach at Carolina. I love the move. Joe Judge,
New York. I think it's a tad bit of a reach.
Cleveland is the only team with an all putting and
we'll give They've interviewed everybody, by the way, they got
like forty eight candidates. I'm not sure who's doing all
the interviews. I think it's the owner, Jimmy Haslam. They
have interviewed say this for Cleveland, They've covered their bases.

(51:12):
They've interviewed everybody Towelboy down in the AFC. They've interviewed
everybody for their job. Be sure to catch live editions
of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern note am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app. Sunday,
Russell Wilson leads the Seahawks from the Lambo for a

(51:34):
showdown against Aaron Rodgers and the Packers in the NFC
Divisional Round. It all starts at six eastern on Fox
and the Fox Sports App. We've got a bunch of
great young quarterbacks, a bunch of great old quarterbacks, and
the two guys in the middle that are legends are
Russ Wilson and Aaron Rodgers, and they play this weekend
in Lambo. How lucky are we as sportscasters that we
get to watch it and talk about it. I will

(51:55):
say this one of the things I'm a big believer
in is that it takes a long time to create
a culture and a system. I've joked about this for years.
When I first came to FS one, my first year,
I couldn't even get my hair right for about six months.
I had to build a staff. We had to build
a set. We had to build managers, we had to
build producers. It took us a long time, and the

(52:16):
idea I was going on the air every day and
we were just bailing water to try to get the
right people, of the right staff, and the right components.
You know when Cleveland Brown gives a guy about eight
games and then they're breathing down your neck. I like
what Carolina did this morning. We're hiring a college coach.
We think he's super smart, but we're gonna give him
seven years here. So if he you know, the Cam

(52:36):
Newton thing could be very choppy. We understand that he's
got to find a quarterback. So they're gonna give him
now a couple of years to get the quarterback right.
In fact, his first quarterback draft maywiff. He'll have enough
years to get a second quarterback. So I like what
Carolina is doing. Let's go to Peter King, NBC Sports
to be the coward global satellite network spots or by

(52:57):
Mercedes Bans the best or nothing. So I see a trend, Peter.
Kyle Shanahan long contract, Matt Rule long contract, John Gruden
long contract. You know what it says to me, Peter,
It's like, listen, we want to empower the coach. You're
gonna make mistakes. But we look at New England and

(53:17):
we look at how they have been so formidable, and
a lot of it is the monotony of repetition of
the same offense and the same defense. So if I
like what Carolina did, even though it's a college coach,
what say you? I like it too, Colin? With just
one little proviso. It's all well and good to give

(53:39):
a guy a seven year contract, But if you go
four twelve, four twelve, and three and thirteen the first
three years, do you think that Matt Rule is going
to be back for the fourth year. I don't think so.
And I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm saying
that Kyle Shanahan was whatever he was ten and twenty

(54:00):
two his first two years. Yeah, Well, if Garoppolo plays
this year, and they're four and twelve. Do you think
he's coming back for year four? He might because Jed
Yorke really liked him. But I mean, that's it's a
good idea to show all the faith in the world
that the Carolina Panthers and David Tepper are showing in

(54:22):
Matt Rule. And I think he's got a good shot.
But I do just want to throw one slight bit
of water on the fire here, Colin. You know, I
wrote in my column on Monday that there have been
nine college guys, big college stars hired in this century

(54:43):
so far to be NFL head coaches. I don't include
Bill O'Brien and Pete Carroll here because they were mostly
NFL coaches who went to college football and then came
back to the NFL. I'm talking about guys who were
pretty much exclusively college coaches and then went to the NFL.
And only two of the nine coaches, okay, had winning

(55:07):
records with their first teams. That's Chip Kelly, who was
widely derided as a failure in Philadelphia, and Jim Harbaugh,
who obviously was a success. But think of those who failed.
Nick Saban fifteen and seventeen in two years and then
he ran off to Tuscaloosa. So again again. Nick Saban

(55:29):
when he took the Miami job, was absolutely totally all
in Wayne Heiazenga. I'm your guy, I'm here. We're gonna
build a great team. And after two years he went
to Wayne Heiazenga and said I want out. So again.
I like it. I like the faith shown, but that
doesn't necessarily mean that the Panthers are going to be

(55:49):
a great team. Yeah, they got a Cam issue to
figure out, and they got a draft quarterbacks. I think
they'll stay with Cam. It's probably good news for Cam
because a new quarterback. You know, defining one these days
is not easy when you're you know, you have four
or five teams in front of you that want one.
Let's go to the Giants. I actually think the Giants
is a good job. I don't know if they made
the right higher They have two good defensive linemen under
twenty five Leonard Williams Dexter Lawrence Star running back, good

(56:13):
pick they could leverage for more picks. Daniel Jones on
a rookie contract. I'm not a fan of Gettleman, but
beat out as it may, I think you have solid ownership.
Joe Judge to me, You know, I was saying this earlier.
Peter New York puts so much pressure on its owners
that I think sometimes they panic overspending overreach. It feels
like Matt Rule was their number one guy, got the

(56:35):
Carolina job, and they go, Okay, we gotta get Joe Judge.
I don't know. It feels a little bit like a
reach to me. Is that fair by me? I think
it's fair. I don't understand. There wasn't anybody else who
was going to hire Joe Judge, so you hire Joe
Judge before you even talk to Josh McDaniels. And again,

(56:59):
maybe they would have picked Joe Judge over Josh McDaniels.
Maybe they would have picked somebody else. I don't know,
but I find it very odd that the Patriots lose
an assistant coach and it's not Josh McDaniels, who I've
been around a lot and I happen to think is
really really good. But I think the one other thing

(57:19):
to think about with the Giants right here is that
this is not a bad job. A lot of people
are killing the Giants over Gettleman and all that other stuff.
But I can tell you the time I spent with
Mike McCarthy in the middle of December in Green Bay.
He was extremely interested in the Giants job. He loves

(57:39):
Daniel Jones, and so I think the Giants is still
even though they might be hamstrung by Gettleman for a
year or two, I still think that's a good job.
Any team that has a great history and has a
long term quarterback, that's the Giants. You'll figure everything else out, Colin,

(58:01):
I still think that's a good job. I agree. I
want to talk about Tom Brady. So you've had a
good relationship with Tom. He clearly respects you, and he
is now acknowledging to you, Peter King, that I want
to play football. You know, I would look elsewhere. You know,
we never really heard John Elways say that or Derek
Jeter say that, like, yeah, I'd go and play elsewhere.

(58:22):
There was a sense like I'm going to wrap a
bone in it and retire. It's really interesting because I
had somebody this weekend say, listen, Giselle's made a lot
of sacrifices and she's probably not gonna say let's go
to Indie. And that was somebody that really believes that
it's not the big list. You think where Tom could go,
and he's not coming off a great year, Peter, There's

(58:45):
just too many things that line up here. Though there's
so much noise. I do give Brady leaving at least
a fifty fifty shot. I mean, I'm just hearing too
much house for sale, Guerrero's house for sale. It sounds
like youth. Tom could leave as well. When I walked

(59:05):
out of that room with him at midnight on Saturday,
I thought that there's going to be at least a
fifty fifty chance that he'll leave. Look at look at
what's going on, Colin. He made it known to me
and to the press after the game that he wants
to play in twenty twenty. He was very strong about
that with me. So he's not retiring. I mean, unless

(59:27):
nobody's interested, he is not retiring. So now let's look
at the options. You got Bill Belichick, who, against popular
wishes in Cleveland, benched Bernie Kozar, you got, you got
how he handled Drew Bledsoe when he came back from
his injury in two thousand and one. He kept playing Brady.

(59:51):
So he's clearly not afraid to make a major decision
with his quarterback, and look at it this way. To
Colin and I wrote this, I mean, you're Bill Belichick,
and you know that Tom Brady might have a year
maybe two left, and he might not even be that
good at in those in that period of time. So

(01:00:13):
you're Belichick and you say, hey, listen, whether it's Jared
Stidham or whether it's the fifth quarterback in this draft,
you know, maybe we ought to just start over. However,
and I somehow, some way, I get the feeling that
that's gonna be Belichick's call. Finally, you spend a lot
of time with Mike McCarthy recently, and I think that

(01:00:35):
article helped him his drive toward analytics and growing. I
think that absolutely helped Mike McCarthy. Are you surprised Dallas
was the landing spot for the former Packer coach. I
think a lot lined up that was going to be
right with him in Dallas. I think Jerry Jones wants

(01:00:57):
a traditional football coach who he can just say, Okay,
the football is handled. I'll worry about the stadium, I'll
worry about all the extra stuff, but my football team
is in a good place with an establishment, established football coach.
In some ways, it's like when he hired Bill Parcels.

(01:01:18):
You know, he had been he had had enough of
Dave Campo in six and ten, and he's had enough
of Jason Garrett, quite honestly, even though he absolutely loves him,
because I'm sure he will say, I think we underachieved
with Jason Garrett. So the fact that now they have
an established establishment football coach, I think makes all the

(01:01:39):
sense in the world. And the one other thing I
would say, if I'm Dak Prescott, I'm happy right now
because the one thing that Mike McCarthy is is a
mechanics nerd. When I was in Green Bay with McCarthy,
he queued up a tape of all the quarterbacks he's
coached over the years, going back to Joe Montana six

(01:02:00):
years ago in Kansas City, and showing all of the
tape of all of these guys and quite honestly, how
their mechanics improved. Not necessarily Montana, but Aaron Rodgers his
first year. He showed me Rogers drop, and he showed
me Rogers drop him a couple of years ago. It
was totally night and day. And so I think that

(01:02:22):
is going to be a good thing for a young quarterback.
And believe me, I know Dak Prescott but only a
little bit. And I do know he wants to be coached.
Mccarthio coach him hard, by the way. You know, it's
fascinating to watch all the games this weekend, Absolutely fascinating that,
you know, Breeze Brady, they're getting older and you have

(01:02:45):
all these young quarterbacks. Now we're taking college concepts. This
is sort of vague and ambiguous, but about a minute left.
I don't remember a time in my life where we
had all these exciting, great quarterbacks, a couple of absolute legends,
then Wilson and Aaron Rodgers in the middle. I don't
remember a time. And we also have three good prospects

(01:03:07):
in college this year, two superstar prospects next year. I
honestly believe it's the most talented the quarterback position has
ever been in my life. Even the young guys year
two are exceptional. But take me back seventies eighties you
have a greater sense of that. I'm just watching these
games this weekend and I'm like, Lord, there's talent at

(01:03:29):
this position. Maybe it's all the seven on seven stuff
the last twenty years they've been taking snaps since they
were nine years old. What do you make of it?
I remember when Phil Simms left the Giants and the
Giants just really muddled around for a couple three, four,
five years, Dave Brown, Danny Cannell. Yeah, and there wasn't

(01:03:53):
the inventory coming out of college football that there is today.
Now Eli Manning has done, So what do they do.
They go out and get Daniel Jones, who was not
a popular pick but in his first year showed a
huge amount of promise. And I'll only make this point Colin,
you know, I find it very interesting. Has anybody said,

(01:04:14):
in the last three or four years man the NFL
missus Peyton Manning. No, I mean they miss Peyton Manning
because he's a cool personality and all that stuff. But
as a player, I mean, everybody's doing just fine. And
I don't mean everybody, but the most teams in the
league that I remember have promising, good, fun young quarterbacks.

(01:04:35):
And with the proviso Russell Wilson wants to play the
Lea's ninety, So even though he's past thirty, I think
you're going to get at least ten more years out
of Russell Wilson. Yeah, and Andrew Luck retired. We could
have another great quarterback right now, moving into his prime,
and that was obviously a sort of an outlier move.
Peter King, NBC Sports, Thank you so much, Peter, appreciate it.

(01:04:59):
Thank you, Colin. All right, So the Cowboys have their coach,
Washington has their coach, the Giants have Joe Judge. Carolina's
got their coach Cleveland. Doesn't This all brought to you
by vic Sinex nasal spray works up to twelve hours.
It is cold and flu season. Here is Joey Taylor
with the news, No turns. This is the Herdline News.

(01:05:21):
Before hiring Joe Judge as the next head coach, the
Giants requested an interview with Jason Garrett's which was assumed
to be for the head coaching spot, but now sources
to say that the Giants are looking at him to
be the offensive coordinator under first time head coach Joe Judge.
That's a weird career move, isn't it. Well, Garrett was
offensive coordinator with the Cowboys before he took the head

(01:05:43):
coaching job there, and the Giants think he could be
an important asset to a new inexperienced head coach and
Joe Judge. I don't like the optics of that coach
of the Cowboys to OC for Joe Judge, it feels
like a well, look, I mean, he's not going to
get another head coaching job unless he gets the job
with the Browns. I don't know, but I think, if

(01:06:03):
you know what, we were all crushing Mike McCarthy after
Green Bay and a year later he coaches the Cowboys.
I'm not crushing Jason Garrett. No. I think Jason Garrett
is very capable. I think he's Mike mcco. I think
he would be a good hire for the Browns. Actually, well,
I you know, I think I would be a good
hut coach for the Browns to be at this point,
they're running out of people. I seriously think Jason Garrett
would be a good option the brown I do. I

(01:06:24):
think it's a good option for them. I don't think
it's a good option Jason Garrett. I would take the
offensive coordinator job with the Giants before I took the
head coaching job with the brown I agree, but I
don't think either one's good enough for Jason Garrett. I
think in one year, why can't he take a year
off again, and probably will because I mean, it's in
these situations sometimes it's better to just like step away,

(01:06:46):
spend some time with your family, to relax a little
bit destress, you know. I think that a cobo for
a couple of weeks until Wow, Mike McCarthy was getting
mocked a year ago. He's now coached the Packers and
the Cowboys, the two biggest brands along with the Steelers
in the NFL. But if he wants to coach, if
he wants to work, I don't think it's the offensive

(01:07:07):
coordinator job for the Giants is a bad job. I
don't think it's a bad job. But for Jason Garrett,
he's one light the division multiple times. What's his reputation?
It's as good as isn't it as good as Mike McCarthy. No,
Mike McCarthy is a better coach than Jason Kay, But
isn't it better than Josh McDaniels and gets up for

(01:07:29):
five jobs? Yes, but it's all about you know. I'm
a big believer, take a step back, walk the dog,
play with your kids. If I'm Jason Garrett and I
would to coach, I think going to the Giants is
a better option because you can leave the Giants also
when there's another position open that you find to be
a better situation. Like he doesn't just because he goes

(01:07:50):
to be an offensive wordy for the Giants for two years,
it doesn't mean he's not going to get a great
head coaching job that might open. Then we don't know
what's going to be opened down the road. I don't know.
I wouldn't take the Browns, but I think the Browns
would be smart to try and hire. Yeah, Like, listen,
I keep reading these stories Brown's interested in Blank. Well,
of course they are. Yeah, I mean, of course they
like Urban Meyer, you know. I mean like the Browns
are of course interested in all these great games? Are

(01:08:11):
they interested in the Brown Yeah, I'm not banging on Cleveland.
I'm like you, Cleveland earned he's banging on Cleveland. But
it is what it is, Okay, Like the numbers are there,
It's just facts. You have a crazy owner, it's facts.
It's indisputable. No one's picking on Cleveland. It's just year
after year after year after year after year. It's not
already no he's picking on anybody. Just when the facts change,

(01:08:32):
then you can have that conversation. It is what it is.
We said what we said. Tom Brady said that retirement
was unlikely after getting knocked out of the playoffs last weekend,
and he talked to Peter King, as we just mentioned
after loss, about how he wants to keep playing. And
Mike Sando of The Athletic interviewed or spoke to six
NFL executives about Grady and Belichick and what the next

(01:08:54):
move could be. Mike Sandal's good mixed responses, but one
NFL executive thinks that Tom Brady and Belichick wants to
win a championship without each other. The quote is, I
subscribe to the theory that Brady and Belichick each wants
to win one championship without the other. Belichick's plan to
doing that is by getting another high level quarterback, which
he knows he can only do if he drafts one.

(01:09:17):
So it's kind of interesting. I believe this, though, how
you too. I think this is the most accurate of situations. Well,
mainly because they're both highly competitive, championship winning individuals. Well,
and this and this is interesting, Joy because I agree
with you. I subscribe to this theory. The difference is
Belichick has nine years to coach, right, Brady's got about

(01:09:37):
one more year to so much more strategic for Brady. Yeah,
So what that tells me if Mike Sandal's right, and
I trust Mike, I don't know him, but I trust
him he's very smart, is that Brady's picking the best
roster he is going to go and is what he
should do anyway, right, But like a lot of times,
like like he's gonna do a Peyton manny, He's like, oh, line, coach.
I mean, Brady's not people upset in Miami because Gizelle

(01:09:57):
would live in Miami. That's a rebuild me as a rebuild,
I don't think that's as realistic. I think that the
Chargers is the best situation for this if all this
linees up. And I do believe this because for pretty
much all after they won multiple championships, the conversation started
to come up, is it more Brady? Is it more

(01:10:19):
bellotcheck and their caremusal obviously for forever tethered together, but
if one of them wins another championship without each other,
it's gonna be just a little nudge in that question,
no question. So I do think if there's something to that. Finally,
The Vikings kept their season alive with a big win
against the Saints in New Orleans Sunday. They have a
quick turnaround before heading to San Francisco to take on

(01:10:40):
the Niners on Saturday, but head coach Mike zimmer isn't
using the short week as an excuse. It's similar to
playing a Monday night game and then you gotta get
ready for a Sunday game. Obviously we're going out to
the West Coast, so it'd be a little bit different,
but hey, it's playoff time. You know, it's big boy
football now. I like Mike zimmera they are seven point

(01:11:02):
underdogs against the Niners. I like every favorite this weekend.
I like every favorite. If I was betting the games,
i'd take all four favorites. I like them all, I know,
and I like and I don't like giving up points.
Uh by, Yes, I like all the favorites this weekend.
I think it's you're asking Minnesota to come out of
that environment and that game emotionally short week and go

(01:11:26):
to the rest in San Francisco forty nine ers. That
is a tough ask. I know, that is rough. I know,
and I like did go into and I don't know
about it is. I it's it was an emotional win
for them, hugely emotional, and I don't really like emotions
this early in the playoffs. Yeah, so that's the one

(01:11:48):
thing that gives me a little bit pause about that,
and of course for her cousins. But he did win
his first big game, so you know, give him credit.
I just it was so it was such an like, hey,
big d, remember how bad Minnesota was after the Minnesota America.
The next week against Philadelphia, they didn't show up. It's
hard when you come off your biggest win in the
franchise in years. It is a big ask, no bye,

(01:12:09):
short week. You know, that seems like a lot. It's
it's a lot. It's a lot. But Fox Bett hasn't
a lot of points too. Joy with the news. Well
that's the news and thanks for stopping by The Herd
Line News at Moseley, Dallas Morning News. Great podcaster covers
the Cowboys went to Baylor, his thoughts on Matt Rule,
his thoughts on Mike McCarthy. That's coming up next in

(01:12:31):
Los Angeles, It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter ninety em Pacific.
Welcome back Matt Mosey. Matt Moseley Show, by the Way,
available now in Austin and Waco. He's got the Doomsday
Podcast with Edward Er. We absolutely love him, great stuff.
He went to Baylor, so he knows all about Matt rule.
Let's have him join us via the Coward Global Satellite Network,

(01:12:51):
brought to you by Mercedes Benz The Best or Nothing.
All right, let's start with Mike McCarthy felt safe to me. Safe.
I didn't get it. Didn't at Tingally it was safe.
What did you make of it? It worries me when
you get Tingle at any point in time. I you know,
I thought it was the perfect retread higher and I

(01:13:13):
think this is someone who can deal with letting Jerry
be Jerry. We all know it's about keeping this owner comfortable.
And this guy has more skins on the wall. He
would love Sean Payton. I mean that's you know, in
his heart of hearts, that's his first love he got away.
Mike Zimmer is another love. I don't think Zimmer wanted

(01:13:34):
to come back with. Jerry McCarthy is a really extremely
safe choice. I mean, we know the Panthers, we know
the giants. They're out there making really interesting choices. This
was as safe as you can get. And I know, Colin,
you got real caught up in that twelve person analytics
crew he put together while he was away from Green Bay.

(01:13:54):
Nothing gets me excited as a twelve person analytics crew.
Were you surprised they didn't even make a run at
Lincoln Riley because six months ago, Matt that was the choice, right.
I think they probably visited with him. I think Lincoln
knows that's a possibility down the road. But Lincoln knows

(01:14:16):
he has an incredible situation in Oklahoma. He can still
keep cranking out Heisman winners. And they loved him. He
loved his play calling. But to Jerry now, I think
Steven might have been more enambered with him. But to Jerry,
the head coaching experience is a huge thing. That's why
they hired Wade. They almost hired nor Of a long

(01:14:36):
time ago. With Garrett, they gave him all this time.
I think you would argue far too long. And with
McCarthy they feel like, okay, he's had a year away.
It is funny, though, how you can sit out a
year and suddenly you're like everybody says, oh, great, Hire, wonderful. Higher.
I'm not that guy. I'm a little bit with you.
He doesn't do that much for me. But also Lincoln

(01:14:59):
Riley doesn't do as much for me. I mean, you know,
it's it's it's a tough sell when you see a
guy get hammered in that Bowl game like he did.
They weren't even in that game at all. And I
don't know. I think as as the season came to
an end, they were less and less enamored with Lincoln Riley.
Maybe someday, but I think he's going to be one

(01:15:20):
of those guys like Stoops. It's always a rumor, but
I'll be surprised if Lincoln Riley ever goes to the NFL.
By the way, how's it playing in Dallas with Mike McCarthy.
What do you make of his relationship potentially with DAK.
He did not build running games in Green Bay. He
had Aaron Jones last year he was there, didn't use
him much. How does it play for DAK Well, I

(01:15:42):
think DAK is really looking forward to it. I think
they will play up the fact that it worked extremely
well in the early days of Aaron Rodgers. It wasn't
great at the end, but all they need is to
get Dak into his prime and have about five or
six years together. And I feel like they thought it
would fall and then to Rogers and then as Farb told,

(01:16:02):
you know, our buddy ed Warder, he thinks this was
an incredible higher. I think it's good for Dat. I
think I think one thing, McCarthy's going to have to
be reminded. He's one of those coaches that loves to
talk about the run game, and then he gets into
a ball game and he kind of forgets about it. Yea,
And I think he's gonna have to He's gonna have
to clean some of that up. Yes, you and I
totally agree on that hit. There are coaches that say

(01:16:23):
they love to run the ball, and then there's Pete
Carroll who actually likes to run the football, and John
Gruden who likes to run the football. Okay, so Matt
Rule has done an amazing job. He's kind of the
he's a younger Urban Meyer. He turns programs around lightning quick.
He's clearly got some leadership skills. You're a Baylor guy,

(01:16:43):
so I would think this morning you would love Matt
Rule going to Carolina what say you? Right, Yeah, I've
tried to get you to talk Baylor forever and you
finally get head coach or the number four team in
the country in basketball. Okay, this is basketball. I'm wearing
black today. I'm having to say goodbye to Matt Rule.
I wish him the best. I will say he did

(01:17:07):
an incredible job. What he did at Temple in Baylor phenomenal.
Baylor was in chaos, Baylor was scandal ridden. It was
a horrible situation. He wins one game, he goes eleven
and three. If you were close to the program like
I was, you know how an amazing So he will
be fondly remembered in Waco. Is the man who led

(01:17:28):
us back from the ashes Someday. Today the Baylor fans
are like, don't let the door knob hit you. They
are there. They are upset with him. Now, how will
he be in the NFL? Let me just say this.
You have you've probably had him on, You've probably interviewed him.
He's an incredible interview He's extremely likable. He's like, he's
got a future as a motivational speaker. He can do

(01:17:48):
all of that. How will it translate at the NFL level.
I'm I'm I'm just like you. I don't know how
it will be. He is a program program process pro
say this oriented guy, how does that play with NFL players?
He has a lot of conviction. But one thing he
said recently, I want to go to a place where

(01:18:10):
I have a quarterback in place. Guess what he doesn't.
I mean, what do you do? Where is Cam Newton?
I mean, we know Cam Newton's off. We're in scarves somewhere.
You know Kyle Allen, we know him because he's from Texas.
We don't think he's the answer. So Matt Rule has
done what he said he wouldn't do. He's gone to
a place that has a shaky quarterback situation. Can that

(01:18:30):
fan base in temper the billionaire? Can they let him
go one in fifteen? Can they let him go to
can Hey let him break it down and rebuild. I'm
just saying NFL people love to talk about that, but
as we saw with the Sixers in other fan bases,
it's easier to talk about than it is in practice.

(01:18:51):
Matt Moseley's got the Matt Moseley Radio Show, co host
of the Doomday Podcast, and we just think he's great
and fantastic, and we feel somewhat sad for you, but
don't get greedy. Baylor had a good season. That's enough.
Go back to being you know, middle of the Big twelve.
You'll be fine. We love you. I can't believe this.
Matt Moseley great stuff, buddy, he just tried. He's terrific,

(01:19:13):
very funny and very talented guy and has great sources.
So um and he by the way, he is right.
Baylor football was on fire. I mean it was a
it was a disaster. They had controversy, they had NC
double a stuff. What that guy did it at Baylor
is a top three in two years. I mean, what
Matt rul did at Baylor is remarkable. It is remarkable,

(01:19:36):
is perfect. It is not just a turnaround job. This
isn't even a football school. I mean this is a
I think it's a small private uh school down in
uh Waco, home of doctor Pepper. You know what for that,
it's got that uh flip. The house's couple lived down there.
What's their name, the good looking couple, David, you know, geez,

(01:19:57):
David koresh Well. Waco had a lot of stuff. They
had a lot going on and yeah, it was a
mass and Matt Roll walked in there and just said, Okay, boom,
follow me. There's a power of personality with that kid.
Do you think it's kind of interesting what he said though?
How does that process stuff work in the NFL? Well,
when you get a seven year contract, you got First

(01:20:18):
of all, he's verbal. So I'm a big believer in that.
Some guys can walk into a room and they just
light it up. I mean, like that guy at Minnesota,
that PJ. Fleck. Good God, I'd run across I'd run
into a you know, a brick wall for that guy.
Some guys James Franklin at Penn State, Nick sa I
think it's all about how you were late, because I
do think everything when it gots to that level is
about process. But can you get people to buy into

(01:20:41):
the process because it's monotonous because it's a process. Yeah.
Michelin and Durance XT silicone wiper lay braids blades two
times longer than other blades, only available at Walmart. Michelin
and Durance XT silicone wiper blades. It's just going to
be interesting. You got you know these? So Joe Judge
is the coach of the giants. I'll talk about that

(01:21:01):
in a few minutes. Don't love that one. Cleveland's the
only job open, and I would I would stress this.
If you're a young coach Kevin Stefanski and somebody offers
you fifty million, take the job, take care of your family.
But if I'm Josh McDaniels, I'm not taking Cleveland. They
have shown no ability to be patient, no ability to

(01:21:22):
give you support for several years. They overreact to any loss.
I mean they bailed on Freddie Kitchen six games in.
People bailed on Freddy Kitchen six games in. Can you
imagine if FS one bailed on me six shows in?
I'm gonna be very smart. Yeah yeah, look at now
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(01:21:42):
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emphasis on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

(01:22:04):
I want to hear some amazing Discover matches all the
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So on a day like today, Mike McCarthy gets hired. Yesterday,
Greg Jennings played with McCarthy forever. I don't think there's
an analyst at any network. I know, there's not that
knows Mike McCarthy better than Greg Jennings, who joins us

(01:22:25):
via the Cowarglobal satellite network brought to you by Mercedes Bens.
The best or nothing, all right, So let's start with this.
So I imagine you'll like the move. Here's my concern,
and tell me where I'm wrong. Coaches Greg all have
a certain DNA. Pete Carroll, it's defense and run the ball,
Andy Reid. It's developed quarterbacks and passing game. McCarthy very

(01:22:45):
much about technique, mechanics offense. He likes to throw the ball.
He did not develop great running games in Green Bay.
He bailed on a lot of them, and they have Zeke.
Is that a fair assessment or concern about Mike McCarthy.
It's a fair assessment. I wouldn't classify it as a concern.

(01:23:06):
And here's why. If you look at Green Bay and
his time in Green Bay, he never had a running
back that equates to an Ezekiel Elliott. We just never
did Amand Green was there Mike's first couple of years,
and then Almond Green was gone, and then after that
it was kind of a revolving door. But what he

(01:23:27):
did do it wasn't so much of a bail on
the running game. It was implementing run pass options to
where there was quick hits that supplement it for the
run the lack of the run. So it was we
had so many skill guys. Get the ball out to
the perimeter, where we viewed it as like a toss,

(01:23:48):
a ninety sweep or ninety one sweep, whatever you want
to call it, quick smoke screens, get the ball in
quick perimeter hands, let them do their job, get five
six yards. It was almost like a run play, and
it was something that was built into our offensive scheme um.
So it wasn't like he just completely bailed. We never
really had an established run game. He always wanted to

(01:24:09):
establish it, but let's face it, our weapons and our
damage was done with the guys we had on the
perimeter and with the quarterbacks that we had underneath the center. Now,
the other criticism is, um, you know, it is amazing
when you take a year off. You know, it's like
what they say about art, you know, the you know,
the longer Picasso was gone, the more valuable the art.

(01:24:29):
Mike McCarthy, the day he got fired, we were all
banging on him for being you know, stale, and then
a year later we're all like, oh, this is a
great hire. Let's talk about the stale rap on him
that it wasn't progressive. He's kind of got his own
way of doing things. Address that because I heard a
lot of that when when he left Green Bay. Okay,

(01:24:51):
so when when when people say stale, like I was there.
I was birth into that offensive system and it grew
stale to someone who was birthed in it. So for
Aaron Rodgers to go to those meetings every single year
and the install be the same, the language be the same,

(01:25:11):
everything was always the same, and nothing really changed. There
was no wrinkles here or there. It was just what
it was. You're going to the dinner table, it's going
to be steak and potatoes. There's not going to be
any extra little seasonings. It's going to be the same
thing every single time. It works. Eat it. That was
what we had. Now we implemented little little wrinkles when

(01:25:36):
it came to what we saw different teams have success with.
But as far as scheming and strategically making sure he
took advantage of one on one matchups, whether it be
with a tight end or running back or a wide receiver,
and just putting in plays for specific individuals, that was
something that Mike McCarthy didn't do as much as we

(01:25:59):
thought or wanted him to do, which is why Aaron
Rodgers alluded to and people like myself alluded to the
offense growing stale. Now. It didn't mean that it didn't
work right, but it was something that was like, dude,
can we switch it up a little bit now for
someone else like a Dak Prescott and this team offensively,

(01:26:19):
they're gonna think it's brilliant. Why because it's new, it's different.
I don't care. He could go there with the same
scheme and we could see it, but it might look
a little different. I don't think he'll do that. I
think he'll add to his repertoire, which is why we've
seen the Mike McCarthy project, which I applaud him for.
It's impressive when a coach realizes, Okay, this is why

(01:26:44):
I may have had a departure. Let me address it.
Let me not be stubborn, let me address it. Doesn't
mean what you did didn't work. As you put up
those stats, those numbers offensively don't lie. The Green Bay
Packers are not uberly just better than what they without
with Marthael McCartney. Now that he's gone, they were better with,

(01:27:05):
but they're winning. Why it's a different voice, a different messenger,
a different head of household. If you will, Yeah, leybe
what did you like it? Let's talk about him as
a communicator. And I think I was the first national
guy that said this a lot. I'm like, I think
Aaron's difficult. I think he's brilliant, but I don't think
I don't think he's always the easiest guy to coach.
So a lot of people, you're not gonna fire Aaron

(01:27:26):
Rod Jersey a fire the coach. Talk to me and
tell my audience Greg about Mike the communicator? What did
you like what? Maybe could be a problem because I
have no I'm not behind those doors. He is a
great communicator from day one. He allows guys and brings
guys in and wants their input and wants them to

(01:27:50):
understand his point of view, but he also wants to
listen to yours. And it happens when you establish yourself
as someone that he can depend on and that he
realizes you're going to be a huge component to our success.
Once he realizes that, and once he knows that in
going into Dallas, he's identified those guys already and he

(01:28:12):
will bring them in and they will have input, and
he will communicate why we're going to be successful and
how we're going to be successful. And why I like
this higher for Dallas is because you got Although Dak
Prescott hasn't signed a contract with the Dallas Cowboys, we're
all pretty certain that he will. They both have something
to prove. Dak Prescott had his best season individually as

(01:28:35):
a quarterback in this league last year, but it didn't
equate two wins. Mike McCarthy got out it because his
style wasn't equating two wins. They both have something to prove.
Both of their methods work. Now them working together, they
are going one is going to listen very well and
absorb and the other is going to listen very well

(01:28:56):
and absorb because it was something that he was told
I didn't do really well or it was hard. It
was a challenge because of who I had at the
quarterback position, because of the how he was able to
establish himself as an elite quarterback in this league. You know,
it's funny. I like Matt Rule going to Carolina because
he's been a head coach at two places. And you

(01:29:17):
can be a smart guy, but I don't want you
taking over an NFL team and learning how to be
a head coach. There's a big gap. North Turner's a
great coordinator, Wade Phillips a great coordinator. It never quite
made the head coaching transition. So Joe Judge, you know,
my guys I call this morning, They're like, he's super smart.

(01:29:37):
But I watched the Patriots wide receivers Nikhil Harry almost
feels like a bust. Mohammed Sanu didn't work as fast
as I thought. I can blame everybody else, but it's
his unit. Boy. He has never been a head coach.
He'd never even been an offensor or a defensive coordinator.
And now it's New York City. Holy mackerel. That's a
big leap. Are you concerned ab about that working? You know,

(01:30:03):
I am concerned, And I'll go from this perspective as
a player number one, When I first heard of the hiring,
I had to ask, honestly, who is Joe Judge like?
And so as as a player, I'm being honest Colin
like and I'm an Allen's I probably should have known it,
but then again I shouldn't have. But when you look

(01:30:26):
within the locker room, and that is the first thought
that players are gonna have who that's just not a
good look coming into an organization that has struggles and
is on the growing side of things. They're trying to
establish themselves. It's almost like he's coming in there again
with no credibility. He's from the New England tree, and

(01:30:50):
all of a sudden you automatically assume, let's just plug
him in because he might bring some of that Belichick pedigree. Well,
like you've alluded to, we've said Belichick guys go, and
they've not all had success. I don't personally like the hire,
but I didn't like the Daniel Jones pick as well,

(01:31:11):
And I'm starting to like a little bit of general Jones. Now, yeah,
we'll see Yeah, we will see it. He listens. All
this stuff is very interesting. Nobody has the answers. I mean,
I would have never guessed Tom Coughlin, you know, out
of Boston College would have been this good. So you know,
I mean Pete Carroll and it had been fired twice,
goes to USC, comes back and you know, so who knows.
I just it's a lot to go from wide receiver

(01:31:33):
coach to New York Giants head coach. Greg Jennings been
subbing all week on First Things First, doing an amazing
job for us at Fox Sports. Thanks buddy, I appreciate it. Yeah,
it's a it's a big jump. Michelin Endurance XT Taello
silicone wiper blades, real world proven, last two times longer
than other blades at Walmart. Michelin Endurance XT silicon wiper blades.

(01:31:55):
I'm not an expert on this stuff. It's just think
about New England structure. You have the greatest leader ever
as a quarterback. You have the greatest coach ye have.
Dante Scarnecki is the best offensive line coach arguably ever. Yea.
Brian Flores very promising, and Josh McDaniels. Is it reasonable
to say he's your sixth best leader in the program.

(01:32:16):
That's what I'm saying. And what about Mike Frabel. Mike
Frabel never coached under Belichick. He was a player. The
only coach that has worked under Belichick is Bill O'Brien,
and I got nothing against him. I don't know Bill
Penn State got better when he left. And Houston is
the most head scratching franchise in the league. I've never

(01:32:37):
seen a team ever, a playoff team as bad as
Houston in the first quarter two eat You're responsible, this
is your city. Give me if I said to you,
Bill O'Brien, what give me a sentence on what you'd say?
Just a hot mess, kind of a hot mess. And
again not saying this is a bad coach. He won
a division with backups. So but it's it's if Bill

(01:33:00):
O'Brien's your guy, I mean, Andy Reid can go, John Harbaugh,
Doug Peterson, Matt Naggie, there's about four other guys. So
I just that Joe Judge thing is a doesn't it
feel a little bit like Freddy Kitchens A little bit?
I mean, was he was a special team's coordinator. So
although he had never been in a coordinator as an

(01:33:21):
interim coordinator, the difference is this guy was gonna get
a college head coaching job, so he was well, I mean,
it's listen, is a step above Freddy Kitchens, but it
still feels like it's a it's a massive jump. He's
in his thirties. It's a big jump, you know. And
again it's not that Joe Judge isn't smart enough. It's
not that he couldn't become but boy, New York puts

(01:33:43):
I mean, just thinking about this Adam Gase, you know,
had some success in Miami. We didn't even talk about
Adam Case. He goes to the Jets and we are
looking at his eyes, we're talking about his mannerisms. He gets.
I mean, we are like a fine tooth comb all
over constantly, Adam Gaze, that's the kind of pressure and

(01:34:05):
microscope you're under in New York. You know, Joe Judge
to me hire him in college, put him down in
Mississippi State, nobody pays attention to them. That's an LSU conference.
Obama and Auburn of Florida, Georgia LSU. And then you
know he coaches three or four years. Then you bring
him up. But wow, first job, yea, that's a lot.

(01:34:29):
By the way, go to mdriverman dot com. Code heard
twenty percent off. Elevate your testosterol levels, lean muscle. It's great.
Joy with the news. No, no, this is the herd
Line news. Well you've been saying all morning. Pete Carroll
loves to run the ball. Yeah. Marshawn Lynch scored a
touchdown in both games. He says, we're joining the team.

(01:34:50):
Not many carries, but he did yep. And Pete Carroll
says his workload is only going to increase this week
against the Packers. I think he's doing great. I mean
I'm really excited about it. I want to see him
do more now. I think we can increase his role
and allow him to be a little bit more active
part of it. He does bring an element that we
love and that's that style and that toughness. And we

(01:35:11):
saw it on the sidelines when he was you know,
when he's dumping guys, you know, out of pounds, and
we saw it on the goal and when he when
he's smacking in the end zone to getting hit on
about the three or four, he still finished it off.
He's got all of those elements that we love. So
I think we'll see more of him in the next
couple of weeks. Here, Pete Carroll's career is fascinating. So
Pete got fired twice and then he gets reborn at USC,

(01:35:31):
and then he goes to Sea Attlan, he scraps around,
and then he gets Russell Wilson. And now when you
just when Pete talks, you listen, You're like, oh, well,
I mean, Pete, he's the best. He and Belichick are
the best road quarterbacks in the NFL. Coaches in the NFL.
It's kind of Pete Carroll's a great eg. You know
what Pete Carroll did, Joey, we're talking about these coaches.
Pete changed everything. Like Pete had been fired twice and

(01:35:53):
he said, I'm gonna change the way I see the world.
And he went to USC and he kind of rebranded himself.
So and some saying like, sometimes you got a lot
of coaches fail their first time around. Yes, you learn
what you did wrong and maybe you implement it, but
that depends on your personality and who you are as
an individual. If you can learn from mistakes and failures,

(01:36:14):
and that's what Peak. That's what Bill Belichick did, That's
what Pete Carroll did. Yeah, so it matters. We fire
our football coaches, we fire our good any coaches at all, coaches, Like,
that's part of the business, just personally, it's just that
is part of the business. If you're a coach. Saban fired,
Belichick fired, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid. Four of the best
coaches in America have all been fired. I mean Mark

(01:36:34):
Cuban fired, Howard Stern fired. It's like you get fired
in America. Yeah, like if you if you take big jobs,
well think that means big responsibility and goofy owners. And
you know, well, the Seahawks are four point underdogs. Coin
to Fox about this weekend against the Packers. You think
the Packers are gonna win, convincing like all the favorites. God,

(01:36:54):
it's asking a lot to go into Lambeau to the
rested Packers two weeks to prep. I like the Packers
I have all season, but I just think they're a
great road team. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the Packers
to win, but four a lot of points I think
the Seahawks cover. So we're down to one head coaching
spot left that's the Cleveland Browns. They've added another candidate,
Jim Schwartz, who is the Eagles defensive coordinator, not very

(01:37:18):
successful with the Lions, very intense. The interview will reportedly
happen tomorrow. They're also still set to interview Patriots offensive
coordinator Josh McDaniels and Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski later
this week as well. Some other candidates are the Chief's
offensive coordinator Eric the Enemy, forty Niners defensive coordinator Robert Sala,
Bryan's offensive coordinator or Bill's offensive coordinator Brian Dable, and

(01:37:42):
the Ravens offensive coordinate Great Roman. So's a lot of
names still out there. They have the ability to be
patient now because all of the other head coaching positions
are now filled. But yeah, the rush of the fields there,
I mean, they got literally their choice. Yeah, they can
take their time. Cleveland's got no hurry. What's the hurry?
You know? I always feel like if you have this

(01:38:05):
many options, it's not a very good job. There's only
a there's certain jobs where there should only be a
very small amount of candidates that are qualified for that
job if it's a good job. Right and now, sometimes
a team will go rogue like the Giants and higher
Joe Judge and none of us know what's going on.
I mean, if nicka probably three people that you could

(01:38:28):
really possibly replace him with, thank you. So if you
have a head coaching position, if you have a position
that is a good job, there's not that many people.
You should not be interviewing ten people eight eight interviews, like,
there should not be that many people on the list.
So of the available people, I'm not saying who would
take the job? Is Urban Meyer the best one? I
think he is now now if you look at everybody

(01:38:51):
out because Matt Rule was way up there. So I
would say Urban's number one, well available, Yeah I would,
but I mean Urban's never coach. I mean the enemy
would be my too. I would say Arab enemy because
he's been in the NFL. Jason Garrett, Jason Garrett. So
if you said your three best are Urban, Jason Garrett,
b Enemy. I am not as high on Josh McDaniels
as everybody else. I think he's capable, but I think

(01:39:13):
he comes with baggage. I'm not either, and I think
it's a very it's a highly combustible situation, situation and
he's a highly combustible guy, right. I don't think it's
I don't think that he won't be successful somewhere. I
just don't think that the Browns is the right place
with him. I think the Browns needs stability and maturity
and process and someone like Matt Rule. Who's going to
build the organization because they have no culture. But that

(01:39:36):
said again, if you have a culture, like if you
have an organization, you have a position, there's only a
certain amount of people that really you should really be
Look who's who's interviewing who's doing all the interviews in
Cleveland Haslem. I think it's Jimmy hasl In, the the owner,
so he's doing He's not a football so a baseball
guy in a billionaire Like, well, what about the football guy?

(01:39:57):
Do we got a football guy doing any interviews? That
matters a little bit? Kind of little, I think so. Finally,
Brett barbson his last two seasons in Green Bay with
Mike McCarthy as his head coach, and obviously McCarthy's now
with the Cowboys. Far of things, it's a perfect match.
I think it's a good fit for Mike, and I
think it's a great fit for Cowboys. You know, no
one knows what the end result will be, but I

(01:40:20):
believe that he is Taylor made for that job. And
I'm not here to not Jason Garrett the job he did.
I'm talking about from here and into the future. I
think he'll bring a level of brash and toughness, but
along with that a high level of confidence and believability.
When he gives this talk each week before they play whoever,

(01:40:40):
whether they're an underdog or the favorite, I think that
his players will believe that take him win every game,
and I think you'll be good for back. I really do. Again,
I think that Mike McCarthy's success with the Cowboys will
be determined by Jerry Jones and nothing else. They have
the talents. We thought that they had the talent this year,
McCarthy has the resume. Yeah, they've got the pieces in place,

(01:41:04):
They've got the culture in place, they've got all the facilities,
they got everything they need to be successful. Is Mike
McCarthy gonna be able to do what Mike McCarthy wants
to do? That to me is what's going to determine
whether he's successful with what the Cowboys or not. But
I think this is a great hire. We'll see it
doesn't make me tingly? Why do you have to be tingly?
Everything doesn't have to be you know, yesterday was my birthday.

(01:41:27):
I want to be tingly right now. I mean, listen,
it's the Cowboys. It's a very high profiles like urban Meyer,
Ohio State. You're like, oh my god, can't wait to
watch it. It's like Greg said, though, sometimes you just
need you know, every morning I eat the same breakfast.
It's healthy, it's nutritious. No, I'm boring, he started, right,

(01:41:48):
I am boring. Like to park in the same parking spot,
I get it, park right to Skip Bayliss and then
you know, you save the save the tingles for later.
And then I park right next to Skip so he
can't open his door to get in, has to slide
from the other door. Every day, say it tingles. After
the work is done, Joey with the news. Well that's
the news, and thanks for stoping. The Herd line news

(01:42:09):
coming up? Which cowboys will like Mike and which cowboys
will dislike Mike. There are fits here that make a
lot of sense, and that is coming up. Be sure
to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays and noon
Easter nine a m. Pacific. It's great to have you
in on a Tuesday. All the job is filled, Washington

(01:42:33):
job filled, Cowboy job filled, Giants job filled, Carolina job filled.
The only one left is Cleveland. And it's the least
attractive job you've got. It's a young roster, it's loud.
They don't really have a general manager. You've got a
baseball guy, Brian Dabadesta. That's a smart guy, recording to reports.

(01:42:56):
I don't know him. It is weird that if you
were as smart as Brian bade So, why wouldn't you
have a great baseball job. But he took the NFL
job with the Browns. And you have an impulsive owner
and you have a quarterback who's on field off field
judgment in Baker Mayfield has not been ideal. So other
than that, they're all getting filled. Whoever Cleveland hires, they

(01:43:17):
will assure us it's the person they wanted the entire time.
That part I know, But I was thinking about Mike
McCarthy in the nineties. There was a famous gatorade campaign.
Like Mike was also a good decade nineties for the
Dallas Cowboys. So we're gonna do like Mike or dislike Mike.
Mike McCarthy new coach for the Cowboys. Who will the
players like or not like? Well, Dak Prescott like Mike

(01:43:40):
or dislike Mike McCarthy As Cowboys they could I think
this is an easy one. This is a like Mike
Aaron Aaron Rodgers won two MVPs under Mike McCarthy. He
worked with far of An Aaron Rodgers. So and by
the way, both far of An Aaron Rodgers were allowed
to add lib. He was not restrictive. He was a

(01:44:01):
coach that would listen to them, play to their strengths,
let them ad lib. Dak is somebody who is mobile
and can move and sometimes on the run throws pretty well.
So he's not a restrictive guy. So I think he'll
like him. Yeah, I'm excited to see what they do together.
How about Ezekiel Elliott Like Mike or dislike Mike. I
think this is an easy dislike Mike us don't like that. Yeah,

(01:44:23):
Zeke likes carries. Remember at Ohio State when he complained
Urban Meyer forgot about him. McCarthy hasn't had a thousand
yard rusher since Eddie Lacy. It's like six years ago
that that was his last thousand yard rusher, And in
twenty eighteen, the Packers were last in rushing attempts and
rushing percentage, and that was not with a bad offensive line,

(01:44:45):
and that was sometimes with Aaron Rodgers hurt. I think
it's fair to say he's a coach that says he
likes to run the ball, but boy does he move
off running if in the first quarter you don't get
little creases and seems to his liking. So I don't
think it's great for Zeke. How about Amari Cooper? Like
Mike or dislike Mike? Now I think this this guy

(01:45:05):
may like Mike more than any cowboy. Okay, so yeah, okay,
five different receivers went to the Pro Bowl under Mike McCarthy.
He is very wide receiver friendly. In fact, he'll he'll
go for those little hitches and bubble screens over a run.
By the way, Amari's a free agent, McCarthy's gonna fight
for him. Randall Cobb best years with Mike McCarthy, so

(01:45:31):
he's gonna fight for Amari Cooper. He's had Randall Cobb,
and I just thought I always felt like if you
talked to Green Bay receivers. McCarthy was in their corner.
He liked using them. Jerry Jones, is he like Mike
or dislike Mike. He'll like Mike. It's his higher. Secondly,
Jerry doesn't do the day to day football stuff. This

(01:45:54):
is somebody that will listen to Jerry. It's Jerry's higher.
He's respectful of Jerry Mike. Most people that know Mike
McCarthy like Mike McCarthy. He's not rigid, he's not outspoken.
I mean, he took a lot of arrows during the
Aaron Rodgers day and he just took him. So he's
dealt with far of an Aaron Rodgers, big personalities, iconic

(01:46:16):
figures before Mike's dealt with them. He can straddle a line,
you know, be a little politician. I think Mike's pretty
good at that. Jerry'll like him. How about Steven Jones?
I could sense some frustration, some dislike at some point. No,
I don't like that. Steven is more in the football
operation side. He's the draft guy. He buys the groceries

(01:46:41):
and gives them to Mike, and Mike's not terribly creative.
You know. Also, does Zeke start going to Stephen Jones complaining.
I do think it'll be interesting to see how Mike
uses this power running game, because it's really what the
team should be. Dack on play action, Dack's the leader
of the team, but really the off fence generates through
a power running game time of possession. I think Steven

(01:47:05):
Jones could over time be frustrating. Yeah, how much to
the Ghosties is Mike McCarthy gonna get Yeah, well, Troy
Aikman like or dislike Mike McCarthy. He'll like Mike because
McCarthy's a former Packer coach, so they're gonna get discussed
a lot. He does a lot of Cowboy games. The
Cowboy games get big ratings. I think there's drama with
Mike McCarthy. If he starts winning, We're all going to go, Oh,

(01:47:26):
Aaron Rodgers, what's wrong? Aaron Rodgers? What if Dallas very
quickly starts elevating above Green Bay? Matt Lafleur, Let's say
Green Bay loses this weekend, McCarthy comes out, goes seven,
and oh, It's like, yeah, it's an Aaron Rodgers topic.
The Cowboys will remain a topic. Troy Aikman will like Mike,

(01:47:46):
all right, how about John goulayulay like Mike or dislike Mike.
He will dislike him. No, don't like that because Mike.
John Goulay doesn't like anything but chocolate banana bread, which
we serve every morning. He's a very negative He has
this thing that nobody can do anything right with the Cowboys.
I've known John for twelve years. I've never seen him

(01:48:09):
when we talk Cowboys, he's always the most cynical voice
of the Cowboys. He didn't even grow up in Dallas.
He grew up in Connecticut, so he's not even in
the belly of the beast, and he's still I don't
think John, John, what is your opinion on the hire?
I don't really trust most things the Cowboys do. I
have nothing against McCarthy necessarily, but if you all of

(01:48:30):
the coaches that Jerry's ever hired, all of them haven't
worked out unless they just happen to have gone to
college with him, like Jimmy Johnson or Barry Switzer. Every
other coach has kind of been disappointed. I think that's
incredibly fair. So the you's a little bit of positivity. Yeah,
a lot of these things. I like Ron Rivera, I

(01:48:52):
like I like Judge, I like I like McCarthy. That
the Joe Judge or the Giants doesn't work for me
at all, but we'll see.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}NFL new hires, Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rodgers, and the Browns