On this edition of The Herd Saturday Podcast with Colin Cowherd, Colin brings in Jason Whitlock to discuss why the Rockets traded for Russell Westbrook, who actually won the trade and what’s next for the Thunder and Sam Presti. Also Colin and Whitlock take a deep dive into the Women’s World Cup victory, the impact of Megan Rapinoe in the public eye and whether they deserve equal pay. And finally the ever-growing top heavy college football teams.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
That's a Saturday morning podcast. Man, what a crazy from
the Women's World Cup to the NBA Free agency. What
a crazy last couple of weeks it's been. And I'm
gonna bring on my friend Jason Whitlock speak for yourself.
Three to four thirty Eastern FS one former offensive lineman
at ball State, worked at the ESPN, Fox Sports, AOL
(00:22):
Kansas City Star. Blah blah blah. All right, wait black,
First of all, let's start with this. It's Saturday morning.
Russell Westbrook has been moved. Your initial reaction to Westbrook's
OKC career, I was saying on my show it kind
of felt like at the end, Sam Presty was being
held hostage. He just wanted to get out of a
hostage situation. I think he probably feels pretty good today
(00:44):
that he can start over. Yeah, I think they feel
real good that they could start over. Look, they got
fifteen first round picks I think over the next seven
years to work with and so as a general manager,
that's probably gotta be fun. He's probably sitting there saying, look,
we once had hardened Westbrook and Kevin Durant, I can
do it again. But you know, my initial thoughts Colin
(01:07):
mostly go to humor. I just I find this entire
situation with Westbrook humorists and your part of the humor
I find in it because you sat out there on
a limb for five or six years criticizing this guy
and saying, look, I just don't think this works. I
(01:28):
don't think he's an ideal point guard. I don't think
guys like playing with him. And you took a lot
of heat, a lot of heat, and there's no better
feeling than this payoff that you're having right now. And
it's like yesterday on my show, I did a commentary
saying that when they retire Westbrook's number in o Kase,
(01:53):
they need to have you do the introduction. Well, you
know it's funny about that, because years ago I heard
this from a friend of Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick's theory
is if you cannot evaluate your own talent, you have
no business evaluating college talent or the other thirty one teams.
Belichick knows when his players have tapped out. He's great
(02:16):
at this. I think Sam Presty made a mistake. History
tells you, Jason, and I've been watching this league, yeah,
like you for three decades. Hyper athletic guards. Point guards
that can't shoot, don't win titles, and they don't age well.
Stevie Francis fell off a cliff. Marbury fell off a cliff.
Westbrook to me, just look at history, watch film. I
(02:41):
never got it. I did you? Were you ever a
Westbrook fan? Yeah? The first triple double season? I gave
him credit. And I look, we used to sit on
speak for yourself and I would defend Westbrook while you
were tearing into him. And so now was he one
of my favorite players? Did I think he played smart? No?
(03:02):
But I didn't think you could discount the effort. No. No.
The one thing I will say, Cowherd and Sam Presty's
defense is sitting in Oklahoma City, where you're not an
ideal location. I think it clouds your view. I think
it makes you overlook some of Westbrook's warts and just say, man,
(03:25):
the guy plays so hard and our fans love him
and he doesn't mind being here, and I think it
just kind of clouds your view. And so again, I'm
not what you did, not remotely easy. But if someone
is going to see his flaws, it's going to be
(03:46):
someone from a distance who can just be cold and
objective and so that's a defense for Sam Presty. The
rest of us that didn't see it as early as Sue,
we have no defense. You know where I was wrong, though.
This league is about finding stars and stars that get
along with others. Kobe wasn't easy, but he got along
(04:07):
with Gasol and Shack long enough to win five rings.
I've been a huge Chris Paul fan forever, and for
the record, Pelicans, Clippers, and Rockets had their best individual
seasons ever with in the regular season with Chris Paul,
he wins. But this is something I overlooked. I heard
for years. He was difficult, and my takeaway was he
plays defense, he's super smart, high basketball IQ. It's everybody
(04:29):
else's fault. Okay, So he forced his way to New Orleans,
he forced his way to the Clippers, and now he
wants his way out of Houston. At some point I
did I just miss on Chris Paul that he you
gotta get along with stars. The example I would use
Jason Matt Damon's a good actor. He's not Meryl Streep,
he's not Jack Nicholson, he's not the classically trained Jeremy Iers.
(04:51):
What makes Matt Damon a superstar. Is he's a good
actor who can get along with other stars very well.
Chris Paul, like Damon's very good, but he's not Kobe.
He's not talented enough to not get along with co stars.
And I think to a large degree, I whipped on
Chris Paul. What do you make of him now bouncing
around the league? You know, it's obviously it's not a
(05:13):
great look for Chris Paul. What I've always liked about
Chris Paul, but I think he's in the wrong era,
is he is this generation's Isaiah Thomas. But he never
found his Chuck Daily. He never was able to meet,
partner with a coach and then just build a culture
(05:34):
and a team around him. I think that's the issue
with Chris Paul. I know that he's someone who is
friends with Isaiah Thomas, and I think saw himself as
this generation's Isaiah Thomas. But he just wasn't able to
pull it off. He wasn't able to build a team
in his image. And I guarantee you in this era,
(05:58):
Isaiah Thomas would be seeing as difficult. But you know,
when the coach and the organization are all in with you,
and and and you have a great coach that you're
working with, you can be a little bit difficult. Look obviously,
Michael Jordan was very difficult, but he had things his
(06:18):
way and he had Phil Jackson to work with and
it worked out. Chris Paul, I just don't think ever
found the right dance partner. You talk more politics than
I do in sports, but I will say this, I
did like as we shift gears. I like the balance
we have in sports. My wife's vegan. I can't be
vegan because I believe it's too rigid. I tend to
(06:39):
be kind of a moderate politically, a moderate liver. I
work out every day, but it's thirty minutes, it's not
an hour. I'm very much down the middle, try to
get along with everybody. Megan Rapino is highly She's a dissenter,
she's a disruptor. Muhammad Ali was. Obviously she's not Muhammad Ali,
Lebron James is. I like the balance we have an
(07:02):
American now where Lebron's outspoken, Serena's outspoken, Rapino's outspoken, but
Mike Trout isn't. Brooks Kepka isn't Tom Brady isn't a
Christian politics very quiet and he's our men's soccer star.
So my takeaway and Megan Rapino is I like even
I like balance, so I didn't have a problem with
Rapino firing shots at a fairly controversial president or a
(07:25):
real controversial president. What did you make of Rapino's emergence
and comments over the last three weeks to a month. Well,
I think Rapino is authentic, that is how she actually feels,
and I think she's super talented, and so whether we
want to or not, we were gonna have to listen
(07:46):
to her as it relates to sports overall, I really
don't want to have a political discussion in sport. I
don't think any of these guys are league qualified that,
from Rapino to Lebron James. I think you know, they're
doing the best they can. They're saying what they believe,
(08:10):
but I don't think it's very informed, and I wish
they would leave it to others. Again, it's hard. I
can't beat up Rapino like I did Colin Kaepernick, because
I just think she's far more authentic. She's certainly far
more talented in her sport. Having said that, leaving Ripino
out of this, I do think one thing that has
(08:31):
been undercovered in the world of sports because no one
wants to take that heat. I thought that women's soccer
team made fools of themselves overall. I thought the celebrations,
the arrogance, all of it was over the top and
reminded me of one of those international basketball teams we had,
(08:54):
I think, where maybe Alan Irison and some others were
on it, and I think they ended up winning as
metal or whatever, but people didn't like the way they behave.
They didn't represent the country well, and they got criticized
for it. I think there's a segment of America that
doesn't like this US women's soccer team because they got
some toxic femininity going on. They're just a little too
(09:18):
over the top, two into your face, too arrogant for
some people. Yeah, I mean. And my takeaway is if
you don't like them representing America, then you can't tell
me you love Trump. And I don't want to talk
too much politics, but I always feel this way, and
I think I've told you this. Trump is like a
controversial Howard Stern in the seventies and eighties. He doesn't
(09:39):
give you anywhere to land but four against him, and
I think that's his game. Plan. He's trying to strengthen
his base and clean up the other side. In his opinion,
it's lost its way. And I kind of think you
can't tell me you like Trump because globally he gets
a ton of pushback representing America, and then tell me
you hate the soccer team even though they win, because
(10:00):
they land wrong for America. Like, you either like our
bravado and understand it or you don't like it. And
if you fall on don't like Trump and don't like
the US World Cup team, I'm good. But I think
I think it's an illustration of people's personal politics. If
you if you love the women's World team hate Trump
or vice versa, does that make any sense? Some orre
(10:24):
I would disagree, is like, look, if these guys want
to get involved in politics in a real way, have
at it, Go run for Congress, go to do something,
and then go behave like silly politicians do now where
everything's pandering too the camera and Twitter. If Megan Rapino
wants to be AOC, she you know, have at it.
(10:47):
She's only she's older than AOC, so go run for
Congress or whatever. It's just for me. In sports, I
would prefer to escape the political divisiveness. What we do?
You know, it's interesting about the equal pay topic. Obviously,
again it's polarizing. There's a reason in fashion that the
(11:10):
number one male model makes less than the seventy fifth
best female supermodel because women drive the commerce in fashion. Similarly,
men mostly drive the commerce in sports. All professional leagues
have men. Ninety nine percent of sports betters are men,
about seventy percent of sports viewers are men, so males
(11:31):
men generally drive the consumption of American sports, from betting
to viewing to participating, blah blah blah. But there are
these unique situations where Serena is significantly more interesting than
the best American male player, and clearly the United States
women's team is a juggernaut and our men can't even
(11:53):
make the World Cup. So that's where I'm like, then
just pay them like like, overall, I think men generally
more money because they drive men's consumption drives the industry.
But I think we do have a rare situation, do
we not? With the United States women's national team, where listen,
the numbers are huge, they outdrew in their final the
(12:14):
men's World Cup game. By I think, well, look, just
remember the men's World Cup game had no American team
even in the tournament, let alone the finals. And so
I just I'm not sure. I don't believe they're unfairly paid.
I think that they're playing single a double A baseball
(12:38):
and they're dominant. They're not in the major leagues in
terms of the number of women's teams around the globe competing,
the quality of play. There's a reason why we beat
Thailand thirteen neil because just Thailand just not that good.
And the competition in the World Cup just is it
nearly women and women's soccer just isn't nearly as intents
(13:02):
or as competitive as the men. They're having to play catchup.
And so I anologize this to the argument they have
in the WNBA where the w NBA players, Oh my god,
we don't fly first class. Oh my god, we don't
say it's the best hotels and we don't have And
I was like, you do know there was a time
when that was true of male NBA players as they
(13:24):
built their business. And so there's a process. And again,
I played football in the Mid American Conference. We bust
to ninety percent of our games. We didn't fly, and
it's because the Mid American conference football doesn't generate that
kind of revenue or interest to justify it. And so
I think there's a process, there's a hill that women's
(13:47):
sports are climbing up. In women's soccer in particular, it
doesn't have the same kind of history as tennis. Again,
I don't think we had a team until nineteen eighty five.
We had a US men's national men's soccer team in
eighteen eighty five, and so again my argument is like
I think they're arguing for reparations far more than they
(14:11):
are for equal pay. They want to be paid because
they think it's unfair that we didn't start a women's
World Cup team in eighteen eighty five, and we should
be right where the men are, who have a hundred
years of history in a business that you know, I
think the World Cup I think started in nineteen thirty
or nineteen thirty one. They're the men are just in
(14:33):
a stronger business that's been around longer, and as time
goes on, things are going to improve for the women
and out of their pay will increase. But men have
walked in those shoes, and so I get and again
this is where I'm frustrated where politics introduces itself into sports,
(14:55):
because I don't think this is really about equal pay
or the Are the women's soccer players being treated unfairly?
I think that they're just being used to further the
argument that they have in politics that women aren't paid
equal for equal work. And so let's let's gin up
something over here in women's soccer and use it as
(15:17):
a big example to make this big political point. That's
a good point, Jason Whitlock, good argument on his side.
Speak for yourself. Three to four third to Eastern FS one.
So the NBA stuff, We've got, the soccer stuff we covered.
Now we move into a football season college in pro.
I gotta ask you one big macro question, because obviously
we have the Big Ten and a lot of conferences,
(15:38):
a connection with an FS one and Fox Sports. Are
you concerned, as somebody who loves college football like I
am at the You know, we talk about the NBA
lack of parody, Bama Clemson favored again. I feel the
sport is leaning too far heavily Southern, and I think
Denver West doesn't care. I look at local TV ratings
for Big Bowl games, They're not very good. What do
(15:59):
you make of the dominance of Alabama and Clemson, three
of the last four titles overwhelmingly favored. This year, Clemson
looks like with that quarterback, they're going nowhere for several years.
Do you worry about the health of that sport, Yes,
But I don't blame it on Clemson Alabama dominance. I
(16:20):
think those things would actually be a strength. I just
think we've oversaturated things with the bowl games. I think
the teams played too many games, and I think and
I'm way out on I'm out on a bigger limb,
and you were on Westbrook. I think the playoff system
has been a mistake. I think college basketball was a
(16:42):
lot stronger when there was an incredible emphasis on the
regular season and an incredible inference importance play store winning
your conference championship. There used to be a mystique to
whoever the Big Ten champion was and going out and
playing the Pac twelve champion in the Rolls Bowl. That's gone.
(17:05):
Everything now was focused on who can make it into
this four team playoff deal, and the regular season has
been d emphasized, and winning your conference championship has been
very It's a very very good point. I don't think
you're crazy. You know. Mark Cuban once told me this.
He said, everybody thinks in sports put all your games on,
and he goes. Scarcity matters. The NFL's got one game
(17:28):
a week. He goes college basketball, baseball. The games are
all on. So like the NBA, I can watch every
game every night. The NBA regular season ratings don't matter.
I think I think you point out something that's fascinating.
When I was a kid growing up, Jason, if my
Huskies won the Pac twelve, I almost didn't care about
the bowl game Like that meant, I really if you
(17:50):
beat USC and UCLA. As a Washington State kid, I won.
I felt great about that, even if we lost the
Rose Bowl. Look, I think the whole argument at the
end of the year about who's number one, and I
think that was actually good. And I think we've been
(18:11):
driven off a cliff that it's playoffs, playoffs, playoffs, and
we gotta know who's number one, and I saw I
think we lost some of the uniqueness and the mystery
of college football and we've given it up and we're
it doesn't seem Michae will ever get it back. I
can remember years ago when I first got to Kansas
City and started having success. Our mayor was Emmanuel Cleaver,
(18:35):
and he's now a long time member of Congress. But
I can remember he brought me over to his he
was administrative church and brought me over and one of
the things he told me was, don't tell everybody everything
about yourselves. About yourself be a mystery that's far more interesting. Yeah, no,
(18:55):
it's a it's a really good point. I think, like
you said, it's too late to bring it back. What's
the old saying, horses out of the barn. But I
do think now they'll just expand the playoff. But I
do think your overarching point, which is the regular season
is really all about getting to the tournament, which, by
the way, there's one hundred and thirty Division one football teams.
(19:16):
Only four can get in and we already know two
of them. So it does. It does puncture a lot
of the spirit of Labor Day. Until if a tournament
was the end all, be all and was going to
make your sport popular, wouldn't college basketball's regular season be
more important than what it is because they got the
(19:38):
best tournament. And so again, when you place all that
emphasis on a tournament, I think you de emphasize the
overwhelming majority of games that you play, which are during
the regular season. Good stuff with Locke. I should host
a show with you, all right. I did, and I
was exhausted. Good talking to you, buddy. You
That's a Saturday morning podcast. Man, what a crazy from
the Women's World Cup to the NBA Free agency. What
a crazy last couple of weeks it's been. And I'm
gonna bring on my friend Jason Whitlock speak for yourself.
Three to four thirty Eastern FS one former offensive lineman
at ball State, worked at the ESPN, Fox Sports, AOL
(00:22):
Kansas City Star. Blah blah blah. All right, wait black,
First of all, let's start with this. It's Saturday morning.
Russell Westbrook has been moved. Your initial reaction to Westbrook's
OKC career, I was saying on my show it kind
of felt like at the end, Sam Presty was being
held hostage. He just wanted to get out of a
hostage situation. I think he probably feels pretty good today
(00:44):
that he can start over. Yeah, I think they feel
real good that they could start over. Look, they got
fifteen first round picks I think over the next seven
years to work with and so as a general manager,
that's probably gotta be fun. He's probably sitting there saying, look,
we once had hardened Westbrook and Kevin Durant, I can
do it again. But you know, my initial thoughts Colin
(01:07):
mostly go to humor. I just I find this entire
situation with Westbrook humorists and your part of the humor
I find in it because you sat out there on
a limb for five or six years criticizing this guy
and saying, look, I just don't think this works. I
(01:28):
don't think he's an ideal point guard. I don't think
guys like playing with him. And you took a lot
of heat, a lot of heat, and there's no better
feeling than this payoff that you're having right now. And
it's like yesterday on my show, I did a commentary
saying that when they retire Westbrook's number in o Kase,
(01:53):
they need to have you do the introduction. Well, you
know it's funny about that, because years ago I heard
this from a friend of Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick's theory
is if you cannot evaluate your own talent, you have
no business evaluating college talent or the other thirty one teams.
Belichick knows when his players have tapped out. He's great
(02:16):
at this. I think Sam Presty made a mistake. History
tells you, Jason, and I've been watching this league, yeah,
like you for three decades. Hyper athletic guards. Point guards
that can't shoot, don't win titles, and they don't age well.
Stevie Francis fell off a cliff. Marbury fell off a cliff.
Westbrook to me, just look at history, watch film. I
(02:41):
never got it. I did you? Were you ever a
Westbrook fan? Yeah? The first triple double season? I gave
him credit. And I look, we used to sit on
speak for yourself and I would defend Westbrook while you
were tearing into him. And so now was he one
of my favorite players? Did I think he played smart? No?
(03:02):
But I didn't think you could discount the effort. No. No.
The one thing I will say, Cowherd and Sam Presty's
defense is sitting in Oklahoma City, where you're not an
ideal location. I think it clouds your view. I think
it makes you overlook some of Westbrook's warts and just say, man,
(03:25):
the guy plays so hard and our fans love him
and he doesn't mind being here, and I think it
just kind of clouds your view. And so again, I'm
not what you did, not remotely easy. But if someone
is going to see his flaws, it's going to be
(03:46):
someone from a distance who can just be cold and
objective and so that's a defense for Sam Presty. The
rest of us that didn't see it as early as Sue,
we have no defense. You know where I was wrong, though.
This league is about finding stars and stars that get
along with others. Kobe wasn't easy, but he got along
(04:07):
with Gasol and Shack long enough to win five rings.
I've been a huge Chris Paul fan forever, and for
the record, Pelicans, Clippers, and Rockets had their best individual
seasons ever with in the regular season with Chris Paul,
he wins. But this is something I overlooked. I heard
for years. He was difficult, and my takeaway was he
plays defense, he's super smart, high basketball IQ. It's everybody
(04:29):
else's fault. Okay, So he forced his way to New Orleans,
he forced his way to the Clippers, and now he
wants his way out of Houston. At some point I
did I just miss on Chris Paul that he you
gotta get along with stars. The example I would use
Jason Matt Damon's a good actor. He's not Meryl Streep,
he's not Jack Nicholson, he's not the classically trained Jeremy Iers.
(04:51):
What makes Matt Damon a superstar. Is he's a good
actor who can get along with other stars very well.
Chris Paul, like Damon's very good, but he's not Kobe.
He's not talented enough to not get along with co stars.
And I think to a large degree, I whipped on
Chris Paul. What do you make of him now bouncing
around the league? You know, it's obviously it's not a
(05:13):
great look for Chris Paul. What I've always liked about
Chris Paul, but I think he's in the wrong era,
is he is this generation's Isaiah Thomas. But he never
found his Chuck Daily. He never was able to meet,
partner with a coach and then just build a culture
(05:34):
and a team around him. I think that's the issue
with Chris Paul. I know that he's someone who is
friends with Isaiah Thomas, and I think saw himself as
this generation's Isaiah Thomas. But he just wasn't able to
pull it off. He wasn't able to build a team
in his image. And I guarantee you in this era,
(05:58):
Isaiah Thomas would be seeing as difficult. But you know,
when the coach and the organization are all in with you,
and and and you have a great coach that you're
working with, you can be a little bit difficult. Look obviously,
Michael Jordan was very difficult, but he had things his
(06:18):
way and he had Phil Jackson to work with and
it worked out. Chris Paul, I just don't think ever
found the right dance partner. You talk more politics than
I do in sports, but I will say this, I
did like as we shift gears. I like the balance
we have in sports. My wife's vegan. I can't be
vegan because I believe it's too rigid. I tend to
(06:39):
be kind of a moderate politically, a moderate liver. I
work out every day, but it's thirty minutes, it's not
an hour. I'm very much down the middle, try to
get along with everybody. Megan Rapino is highly She's a dissenter,
she's a disruptor. Muhammad Ali was. Obviously she's not Muhammad Ali,
Lebron James is. I like the balance we have an
(07:02):
American now where Lebron's outspoken, Serena's outspoken, Rapino's outspoken, but
Mike Trout isn't. Brooks Kepka isn't Tom Brady isn't a
Christian politics very quiet and he's our men's soccer star.
So my takeaway and Megan Rapino is I like even
I like balance, so I didn't have a problem with
Rapino firing shots at a fairly controversial president or a
(07:25):
real controversial president. What did you make of Rapino's emergence
and comments over the last three weeks to a month. Well,
I think Rapino is authentic, that is how she actually feels,
and I think she's super talented, and so whether we
want to or not, we were gonna have to listen
(07:46):
to her as it relates to sports overall, I really
don't want to have a political discussion in sport. I
don't think any of these guys are league qualified that,
from Rapino to Lebron James. I think you know, they're
doing the best they can. They're saying what they believe,
(08:10):
but I don't think it's very informed, and I wish
they would leave it to others. Again, it's hard. I
can't beat up Rapino like I did Colin Kaepernick, because
I just think she's far more authentic. She's certainly far
more talented in her sport. Having said that, leaving Ripino
out of this, I do think one thing that has
(08:31):
been undercovered in the world of sports because no one
wants to take that heat. I thought that women's soccer
team made fools of themselves overall. I thought the celebrations,
the arrogance, all of it was over the top and
reminded me of one of those international basketball teams we had,
(08:54):
I think, where maybe Alan Irison and some others were
on it, and I think they ended up winning as
metal or whatever, but people didn't like the way they behave.
They didn't represent the country well, and they got criticized
for it. I think there's a segment of America that
doesn't like this US women's soccer team because they got
some toxic femininity going on. They're just a little too
(09:18):
over the top, two into your face, too arrogant for
some people. Yeah, I mean. And my takeaway is if
you don't like them representing America, then you can't tell
me you love Trump. And I don't want to talk
too much politics, but I always feel this way, and
I think I've told you this. Trump is like a
controversial Howard Stern in the seventies and eighties. He doesn't
(09:39):
give you anywhere to land but four against him, and
I think that's his game. Plan. He's trying to strengthen
his base and clean up the other side. In his opinion,
it's lost its way. And I kind of think you
can't tell me you like Trump because globally he gets
a ton of pushback representing America, and then tell me
you hate the soccer team even though they win, because
(10:00):
they land wrong for America. Like, you either like our
bravado and understand it or you don't like it. And
if you fall on don't like Trump and don't like
the US World Cup team, I'm good. But I think
I think it's an illustration of people's personal politics. If
you if you love the women's World team hate Trump
or vice versa, does that make any sense? Some orre
(10:24):
I would disagree, is like, look, if these guys want
to get involved in politics in a real way, have
at it, Go run for Congress, go to do something,
and then go behave like silly politicians do now where
everything's pandering too the camera and Twitter. If Megan Rapino
wants to be AOC, she you know, have at it.
(10:47):
She's only she's older than AOC, so go run for
Congress or whatever. It's just for me. In sports, I
would prefer to escape the political divisiveness. What we do?
You know, it's interesting about the equal pay topic. Obviously,
again it's polarizing. There's a reason in fashion that the
(11:10):
number one male model makes less than the seventy fifth
best female supermodel because women drive the commerce in fashion. Similarly,
men mostly drive the commerce in sports. All professional leagues
have men. Ninety nine percent of sports betters are men,
about seventy percent of sports viewers are men, so males
(11:31):
men generally drive the consumption of American sports, from betting
to viewing to participating, blah blah blah. But there are
these unique situations where Serena is significantly more interesting than
the best American male player, and clearly the United States
women's team is a juggernaut and our men can't even
(11:53):
make the World Cup. So that's where I'm like, then
just pay them like like, overall, I think men generally
more money because they drive men's consumption drives the industry.
But I think we do have a rare situation, do
we not? With the United States women's national team, where listen,
the numbers are huge, they outdrew in their final the
(12:14):
men's World Cup game. By I think, well, look, just
remember the men's World Cup game had no American team
even in the tournament, let alone the finals. And so
I just I'm not sure. I don't believe they're unfairly paid.
I think that they're playing single a double A baseball
(12:38):
and they're dominant. They're not in the major leagues in
terms of the number of women's teams around the globe competing,
the quality of play. There's a reason why we beat
Thailand thirteen neil because just Thailand just not that good.
And the competition in the World Cup just is it
nearly women and women's soccer just isn't nearly as intents
(13:02):
or as competitive as the men. They're having to play catchup.
And so I anologize this to the argument they have
in the WNBA where the w NBA players, Oh my god,
we don't fly first class. Oh my god, we don't
say it's the best hotels and we don't have And
I was like, you do know there was a time
when that was true of male NBA players as they
(13:24):
built their business. And so there's a process. And again,
I played football in the Mid American Conference. We bust
to ninety percent of our games. We didn't fly, and
it's because the Mid American conference football doesn't generate that
kind of revenue or interest to justify it. And so
I think there's a process, there's a hill that women's
(13:47):
sports are climbing up. In women's soccer in particular, it
doesn't have the same kind of history as tennis. Again,
I don't think we had a team until nineteen eighty five.
We had a US men's national men's soccer team in
eighteen eighty five, and so again my argument is like
I think they're arguing for reparations far more than they
(14:11):
are for equal pay. They want to be paid because
they think it's unfair that we didn't start a women's
World Cup team in eighteen eighty five, and we should
be right where the men are, who have a hundred
years of history in a business that you know, I
think the World Cup I think started in nineteen thirty
or nineteen thirty one. They're the men are just in
(14:33):
a stronger business that's been around longer, and as time
goes on, things are going to improve for the women
and out of their pay will increase. But men have
walked in those shoes, and so I get and again
this is where I'm frustrated where politics introduces itself into sports,
(14:55):
because I don't think this is really about equal pay
or the Are the women's soccer players being treated unfairly?
I think that they're just being used to further the
argument that they have in politics that women aren't paid
equal for equal work. And so let's let's gin up
something over here in women's soccer and use it as
(15:17):
a big example to make this big political point. That's
a good point, Jason Whitlock, good argument on his side.
Speak for yourself. Three to four third to Eastern FS one.
So the NBA stuff, We've got, the soccer stuff we covered.
Now we move into a football season college in pro.
I gotta ask you one big macro question, because obviously
we have the Big Ten and a lot of conferences,
(15:38):
a connection with an FS one and Fox Sports. Are
you concerned, as somebody who loves college football like I
am at the You know, we talk about the NBA
lack of parody, Bama Clemson favored again. I feel the
sport is leaning too far heavily Southern, and I think
Denver West doesn't care. I look at local TV ratings
for Big Bowl games, They're not very good. What do
(15:59):
you make of the dominance of Alabama and Clemson, three
of the last four titles overwhelmingly favored. This year, Clemson
looks like with that quarterback, they're going nowhere for several years.
Do you worry about the health of that sport, Yes,
But I don't blame it on Clemson Alabama dominance. I
(16:20):
think those things would actually be a strength. I just
think we've oversaturated things with the bowl games. I think
the teams played too many games, and I think and
I'm way out on I'm out on a bigger limb,
and you were on Westbrook. I think the playoff system
has been a mistake. I think college basketball was a
(16:42):
lot stronger when there was an incredible emphasis on the
regular season and an incredible inference importance play store winning
your conference championship. There used to be a mystique to
whoever the Big Ten champion was and going out and
playing the Pac twelve champion in the Rolls Bowl. That's gone.
(17:05):
Everything now was focused on who can make it into
this four team playoff deal, and the regular season has
been d emphasized, and winning your conference championship has been
very It's a very very good point. I don't think
you're crazy. You know. Mark Cuban once told me this.
He said, everybody thinks in sports put all your games on,
and he goes. Scarcity matters. The NFL's got one game
(17:28):
a week. He goes college basketball, baseball. The games are
all on. So like the NBA, I can watch every
game every night. The NBA regular season ratings don't matter.
I think I think you point out something that's fascinating.
When I was a kid growing up, Jason, if my
Huskies won the Pac twelve, I almost didn't care about
the bowl game Like that meant, I really if you
(17:50):
beat USC and UCLA. As a Washington State kid, I won.
I felt great about that, even if we lost the
Rose Bowl. Look, I think the whole argument at the
end of the year about who's number one, and I
think that was actually good. And I think we've been
(18:11):
driven off a cliff that it's playoffs, playoffs, playoffs, and
we gotta know who's number one, and I saw I
think we lost some of the uniqueness and the mystery
of college football and we've given it up and we're
it doesn't seem Michae will ever get it back. I
can remember years ago when I first got to Kansas
City and started having success. Our mayor was Emmanuel Cleaver,
(18:35):
and he's now a long time member of Congress. But
I can remember he brought me over to his he
was administrative church and brought me over and one of
the things he told me was, don't tell everybody everything
about yourselves. About yourself be a mystery that's far more interesting. Yeah, no,
(18:55):
it's a it's a really good point. I think, like
you said, it's too late to bring it back. What's
the old saying, horses out of the barn. But I
do think now they'll just expand the playoff. But I
do think your overarching point, which is the regular season
is really all about getting to the tournament, which, by
the way, there's one hundred and thirty Division one football teams.
(19:16):
Only four can get in and we already know two
of them. So it does. It does puncture a lot
of the spirit of Labor Day. Until if a tournament
was the end all, be all and was going to
make your sport popular, wouldn't college basketball's regular season be
more important than what it is because they got the
(19:38):
best tournament. And so again, when you place all that
emphasis on a tournament, I think you de emphasize the
overwhelming majority of games that you play, which are during
the regular season. Good stuff with Locke. I should host
a show with you, all right. I did, and I
was exhausted. Good talking to you, buddy. You
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.