October 15, 2020 • 39 mins
How the Cowboys play now will define Dak Prescott
Nick Saban's career is amazing
Colin gives his first Super Bowl bubble list
Jimmy Garoppolo has a judgment problem
Guest: Frank Vogel
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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(00:25):
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One hour from now, NFL Meet Sandwich. If you bet football,
if you play fantasy football, or you just love football,
(00:46):
Greg ko Sell in one hour, I think the smartest
ten minutes of football conversation we have all week. Frank Bogel,
coach of the Lakers, and thirty minutes stops by. I
told you I saw him at Walgreen's earlier this year
in law. How bizarre is that the coach of the
Lakers to pull his mask down. He's like coward. I'm
like Frank Vogel. You go to Walgreens too, Boy, Taylor's
(01:08):
joining meets special Lakers tooth Bastes. I thought it was
so random. I'm like, I'm in the whole city of
Los Angeles. Ii'm in the Walgreens right next to Okay,
we're the only two people in the store. Well, I'm sorry.
He's happy to be back in Baste, over joyed. So
it's great to have you in. So it's very interesting.
This is a weekend of clarity in the NFL. There's
(01:29):
a lot of big games, the pretenders. We saw Buffalo
Tennessee play the other night, and it's like, maybe Buffalo
is a little bit of a pretender. Tennessee is absolutely legitimate.
And we're gonna see Green Bay in Tampa Bay and
all these games this weekend in Cleveland and Baltimore. You know,
it's very funny. The Dallas Cowboys play Arizona. The schedule
gets pretty weak for them right now, very winnable games,
(01:49):
and the feeling is Dak has gone and Andy Dalton's in.
I want to remind you that white year replacements due
will often define you when you don't go to work.
So when Drew Brees got hurt last year, Teddy Bridgewater
came in went five, and oh what did it do?
It got Teddy Bridgewater a franchise quarterback contract, and it
(02:10):
also affirmed that Drew Brees and Teddy Bridgewater it's not
much of a gap. And it turned out that Teddy's
now winning and Drew's not winning anymore in New Orleans
with a better roster. When Cam Newton missed the Kansas
City game this year, didn't play, oh my lord, oh
(02:30):
my god. That's a bad football team without Cam Newton.
So Breeze not playing probably hurt his status. Cam not
playing totally elevated his status. So what will it do
for Dak Prescott. The feeling is Andy Dalton and we've
seen this act before. It's not very good. Put this
(02:52):
old dude to rest this. You know, he'll play a
couple of games. And in fact, Patrick Peterson Arizona Great
Play are saying, hey man, we just want to force
this cat to throw the ball this weekend. Stop the running.
We definitely got to stop the running and force not
saying that he can't do it, but you know, we
have to force Andy Dalton to beat us. We feel
(03:13):
if you take the ball out of Ezekiel's Eliot's hands,
there's more opportunities for bad things that happened when the
ball is in the air. That's interesting. If I asked you,
I'm gonna throw this out there, Dak and Dalton, which
one has had this season with the most touchdown passes?
That would be obvious. That would be Andy Dalton thirty
(03:35):
three in dysfunctional Cincinnati with a defensive coach. All right,
which guy has had the most back to back double
digit win seasons, Well, that would be well, Dack's never
had that. That would be Andy Dalton for seasons in
a row. And by the way, he was in a
division with Pittsburgh. All was competent and Baltimore usually competent.
(04:00):
Everybody know that Andy Dalton's thirty two, no major history
of injuries. He chose Texas because he's from there. He's
from Katie, Texas. Andy Dalton's not a stiff. You watched
last week, right, You watched that last drive and you're like,
your expectations of Andy Dalton are so low, and all
of a sudden, you watch that drive and it's like,
(04:20):
I'm not saying he's his mobile is Dak. But you
watch the tape, look at the film, look at these throws.
That's a big boy NFL throw. Watch this throw. It
seems to me that's a that's a big boy NFL throw.
He's thirty two. The Cowboys schedule now is the weakest
(04:42):
in the league. For the next few weeks Arizona, then
it's Washington beat up Philadelphia faced Pittsburgh. Then they get
a buy but then it's a lot of Washington and
Cincinnati and forty nine ers can't get their act together
and home against Philadelphia and closed the season out. Andy
Dalton when he was in Cincinnati equally dysfunctional to Dallas
(05:04):
with a defensive coach, a conservative coach. We called Mike
McCarthy a conservative coach. But when Annie was in that
division six seven years ago and they had a bunch
of weapons, he wasn't asked to He wasn't asked to
carry the franchise. He was asked to be a distributor.
He kept winning the division. So Teddy Bridge Drew Brees
(05:25):
not playing didn't do him any favors, helped Teddy Bridgewater
Cam not playing did him huge favors. I just want
to remind you the first four years in the NFL,
Dack and Andy Dalton, we threw the numbers out. It's
the same dude, now I think Dak. I'd take Dack
over Dalton. And I've over the years been much tougher
on Dalton than Dak because they called him the red
(05:46):
rifle and I'm like, he doesn't deserve a nicknames. Let's
get off the red rifle nonsense. But the idea there's
this massive gap there really isn't. Dalton was drafted higher.
Dalton had a very productive college career. Dalton has had
more double digit win seasons. Dalton's had the more touchdown
passes in one season. And he is a distributor. He's
(06:10):
a distributor, and this team is built frankly for somebody
who's a distributor. So it's interesting. Arizona's takeaway this weekend is, yes,
force Andy Dalton to throw. That's actually, when he had
good weapons, the best thing he did in the hardest
way to beat him. All Right, So Alabama coach Nick
(06:31):
Saban is gonna miss the game this weekend against Georgia.
It's by far and away the best game of the weekend.
It's probably going to be the best college football game
this season. It's really really good, right, It's it's going
to be in the on a short list of great games.
So Nick Saban's got COVID. He came out and he said, listen,
protect we don't know how we got it. We wear
a mask, we socially distanced. He was very responsible, but
they got it. Here's what's remarkable. The average NFL star
(06:56):
player is not worth a point. The average college football
player is not worth half a point. Nick Saban, by
just not being in the stadium Saturday, it changed the
line two and a half points. Now, I want you
to think about this. The assistant that will take it
over as Steve Sarkisian. He has coached two major programs,
(07:16):
has a winning record as one bowl games. Alabama has
also had the same system in for ten twelve years.
This is not a new system. And because he can't
be there just for the game, it almost changes it
by a field goal. The gap between Nick Saban now
and the second best college coach, and I'll get to
that in a second. I mean, he's literally would this
(07:37):
happen with any other coach? He had Zoom meetings this week.
He was coaching him this week on Zoom. The system's installed,
Start's been there for years. This is unbelievable that it's
almost a field goal difference, and it's funny. One of
the things I always liked about Saban. There's a sense
that he's rigid, but the truth is he's really not.
He's evolved his offense every year. Every year. He's made
(08:02):
the life for his student athletes really amazing. They really
support their kids academically, they support them emotionally. I was
talking to a therapist yesterday about this. In football, Saban
offers layers and layers and layers of therapists, life coach,
life strategist. Alabama football players go into very productive lives.
(08:23):
He's never at an NCAA violation of note. Very few
of his kids get into trouble. He's lost twelve coordinators,
That's what I counted this morning. Now, think about that,
when Pete Carroll and Mac Brown at USC in Texas
legendary programs, when they started losing coordinators, the programs were
never the same. Urban Meyers an amazing coach when he
(08:45):
lost Charlie Strong, and I think like at Dan Mullen Florida,
never felt the same. Nick Saban's lost twelve coordinators, hasn't
missed a beat, No nc double A stuff. Mostly good
kids going to productive lives. He keeps evolving offensively. He's
(09:05):
just missing the game this week, just the game. He's
there on Zoom meetings, the offense is installed and the
fox bet. Those guys are like, oh, it's like three points.
That's two and a half points. The only coach in
my lifetime that really is close to him, and this
is somebody I have a lot of respect for because
I know Nick and I like nick A. Lott Is
tom Osborne. His last five years at Nebraska, he went
(09:29):
sixty and three and his last year thirteen and no
walk off. One of the great teams of all time.
He's to me the second best coach in the history
of college football. And one of the reasons is, like
Nick Saban, he really evolved. Woody Hayes became kind of
a relic. Joe Paul was kind of a relic. Some
of these guys like you know and people I like,
like Bobby Bowden, they're not really running the program. You know.
(09:49):
They show up and signed five or six kids, They
show up to the house mom and dad like him.
But the coordinators are running the offense. The coordinators are
running recruiting, the coordinators are running the program. Nick Saban
is like sixty six years old because he's just not
going to be at the game changes the spread significantly.
(10:09):
It's like this guy is just separated. I mean, to me,
it's Saban, it's Osborne, probably Bear Bryant, and then you
can argue over the last one. But I was shocked
by he has a head coach as an assistant who
has one Bowl games and one at two programs. He's
got a defensive system that's been in forever. He's also
(10:32):
not only lost coordinators, they often go get jobs in
his conference, take all his secrets and coach against them
and they're still there. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine
you work at a company it could be Coke. You'll
lose many executives. They go over to the other place,
they go up against you. They know all your trade secrets.
At PEPSI you'd have you'd be a struggle, right like,
(10:52):
Oh my gosh, Nick's coaching against his former assistance every
other weekend. No dip in the quality of the pros.
It really is remarkable. I've watched these great programs Florida, Texas, USC, Nebraska.
If they lose a top coordinator or two and the
(11:13):
program just goes down, He's lost eleven or twelve. I
lost count this morning. I think he's had seven offensive coordinators.
And he's coaching against Lane, and he's coaching against Kirby Smart,
and he's coaching against the kid at tennis see. Every
weekend he faces somebody that has all his trade secrets.
Remarkable which coach? Well, all right, my first, you know, joy,
(11:33):
I do this. I have what I call the Super
Bowl Bubble. Oh that's the first super Bowl bubble where
we're introduced. It's a only eight teams. That's my I
always believe there's eight teams every year that can win
the Super Bowl out of thirty two. And I have
my first Super Bowl Bubble. I feel really good about it.
This weekend a chance to knock two or three out
and put two or three in. But I feel really
secure about seven of the eight. Six of the eight
(11:53):
I feel very strongly about. And I do feel there's
a team in the bubble that is easily the most
complete team, and it's not the Kansas City Chiefs. Have
we ever said bubbles so much in one year? No kidding,
no kidding, our first bubble. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd Weekdays in noun Easter nine am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart
(12:14):
Radio app. Michelin Duran's xt Silicon wiper Blazes Real World
Tough available at Walmart, last two times longer than another Blaze.
So excited to talk to Frank Vogel today. I'm really happy.
I went to went out and saw a buddy last
night and had a couple of beers, and he knows
Frank Vogel and he was so happy for him. Everybody's
happy for Frank Vogel, and so of course Miami's not
(12:36):
that happy for him. So I do Super Bowl bubbles
and I usually wait for about a month to watch it.
And my Super Bowl bubble, I always believe there's eight
teams good enough to get to a conference championship, and
if you're good enough to get to a conference championship,
then you're good enough to win. So four teams get
to a conference championship. And I think there's eight teams
at any one point in the NFL season after the
first month, and then there's always two or three that
(12:58):
are close but not there they miss a component. So
this is my first Super Bowl bubble of the year.
Here it is. This is official the Rams, Bills and
Saints are close back. The Rams and the Bills played
to the last play of a game. In the AFC,
it's New England with cam Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Kansas City,
(13:22):
and it just so happens. In the NFC, it's Tom Brady,
Aaron Rodgers and the Packers and the Seattle Seahawks. I
will say this morning, green Bay to me feels like
the best team in America and the least flawed team.
And there's a reason for it. There's three stats that
are very important and Green Bay is really good at
all of them. Number one, green Bay leads the NFL
(13:43):
and yards per play almost seven yards of play. What
does that mean? They're explosive, they can get cheaper touchdowns,
free touchdowns. They make things happen. Number two is third
down conversion rate. They're top five in the NFL. What
does that mean? Generally means you have a good offensive line,
you get a push on third and short, you have
a teran quarterback who can audible in and out of trouble.
They have Aaron Rodgers. And the third thing is what
(14:05):
they call sack differential. Their top three in the NFL,
meaning they get to your quarterback and you don't get
to theirs. So those are three stats. They're very good.
I do not believe they have a hole. I do
worry about Davante Adams health, but every other team has
a hole. Seattle and Tennessee in my bubble, neither as
a pass rush. Let's be honest about Tampa Bay. There's
some mobility issues with the quarterback they have, and their
(14:27):
discipline is frighteningly bad at times. With Tampa New England
no deep threat, it tends to be kind of run centric.
Baltimore doesn't play well from behind, and Kansas at Pittsburgh
keeps beating bad teams and letting them stick around Kansas City.
Why do they keep falling behind. It's almost as if
psychologically Kansas City feels like, yeah, Patrick will save us.
You can't keep falling behind by ten and fourteen points.
(14:50):
That's just not the way it works. You can't do
it in this league. You're gonna end up facing with
your defense and offense that just keeps the ball away
and you lose games. So I think we have a
best team in the NFL, Green Bay. I think we
have close Cleveland Pittsburgh plays this weekend. If Cleveland wins,
then I think I would get them closer to the bubble.
But it's New England, Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and I've
(15:11):
got some reservations on Pittsburgh, but I trust them right
now defensively more than I do Buffalo's defense in LA's defense,
and I think they're more explosive offensively potentially the New
Orleans offense. So my eight are New England, Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh,
Tampa Bay, Tennessee, Seattle, and the Green Bay Packers. Yes,
I put Tennessee in there after they bludgeon Buffalo. What
(15:34):
am I supposed to not be impressed by? They're doing
everything well. They don't have a pass rush, but they
do everything else really well. Here's joy of the news,
No turns. This is the herd line news. Daryl Morey
is a poor least stepping down as the Rockets general manager.
According to Woods, Morey approached Tillman Turtita with the idea
(15:56):
of leaving after the Rockets left the bubble. Both sides
were fietly through an ex agreement to end his thirteen
seasons running the franchises basketball operations. So they I think,
did I say this to you yesterday, the Houston Rockets
is the worst good job in sports coach, because we
were talking about Tylu. It's just it's not going to work.
(16:16):
Harden and Westbrook are going to eventually face teams in
the playoffs and they're just situationally not built the play together.
They'll be fun, you'll win a bunch of games, and
I think Tyler is a good choice. But I think
that operation right now, I think you're kind of tied
to Westbrook's contract. I think Hardened had this conversation last
night with somebody around the NBA. He's obviously an unbelievable score,
(16:36):
but we've got to We've got, like now history on
the playoff stuff, and never will he ever set a
screen for somebody? Will will he get back and guard
the best player on the other team. So I think
this is I think Daryl Morey's actually making the right
move here. I really do. Well. He's going to stay
around in sort of an advisory role for a short
period to help them hire the new head coach. They
(16:57):
are reportedly planning to promote Executive vice President of Basketball
Operations Raphael Stones general manager and Eli wit Us to
assistant general manager so they may be promoting with in
house for the GM position, but more he's going to
work with him on the head coaching position. He'll get
a gig. Well, So there's a there's a couple of
things that play here. Obviously everyone's going to refer to
(17:18):
the China situation, which was a disaster. There's no other
way to put it. Cost the league four at least
four hundred million dollars for the entire league. It was everybody.
I can't get on Twitter day without somebody telling me
how much the NBA doesn't care about China off their iPhone. Yeah,
but that was obviously an issue. He has two college
(17:39):
age kids who are taking a year off from school
because of the pandemic, So he may just be wanting
to take a break and spend some time with them.
I mean, you've had your daughter around like this unprecedented times.
It's like you would never ever get this opportunity to
spend that much time with your kids in this situation. Also,
he has a lot of other things going on, so
there could have been multiple factors and in this exits on. Also,
(18:01):
you know, they may have just reached the end of
the road with what they were able to do. Like
we talk about the Rockets not being able to get
over with the hump. Obviously not all on More, but
you know, sometimes this situation's ends, so happens. Yeah, it's
not that I didn't feel like this was coming. But
I don't think it has to do with just the
China situation. No, I don't either, because the owner was
very supportive of him throughout that. Yeah. No, I just
(18:23):
think sometimes in any business joy things run their course. Yeah,
And I think this Daryl there, he's gonna get works.
I know Darryl pretty well. He's a really good guy.
He's very respected. Sometimes. You know, pat Rileo says, after
ten years, you're just white noise, like nobody listens to
your message. And that's why Spolster, by the way, works
(18:44):
now because it's all new players. Bolster's got all these kids,
so he gets like nine more years of the message
until they like, oh, that's why in college football you
can be there for so long. You're getting new kids,
every kids every year, right, right, So I this it
doesn't mean it's the end of anything. Harden will still
be great, the Rockets will still be by Morel's still
get a job. Tylu to me is the best fit.
Houston's going to be fine, but this time was coming
(19:06):
and it's only they didn't have success there. They had
the league's longest consecutive playoff appearance streak with eight They
advanced every single year and they just never got over
the hump. So, I mean, obviously they didn't reach ultimate
successive winning a championship, which was the expectation. But Maury
will be fine and the Rockets they are moving in
a different direction, right. So the Jets moved on from
Levion Bell, but it doesn't sound like he'll be a
(19:26):
free agent for long. Jeremy Fowler is reporting that Levion
has narrowed it down to three teams. He's choosing between
the Bills, the Chiefs, and the Dolphins. Oh the Chiefs
they need a red zone running back. His decision could
come today. Levion Bell and Patrick Holmes just followed each
other on Twitter, So like, yeah, I know you're not
watching Laban Bell choose Kansas City. It's nothing against Bryan
(19:50):
Flores or Sean McDermott. Defensive coaches. What do we say
yesterday if you're a running back or a receiver tied end? Yeah,
and Sean Payton or Andy Reader like, um, we're kind
of interested. Go to Kansas City. Just go to they can. Actually,
he'd be a great red zone piece running back for them,
could you. I mean it's gonna happen if he goes
(20:10):
there because it's Andy Reid. Oh it's it's gonna work
in two weeks, but it's gonna work. He's gonna have
a tremendous rest of the season, possibly go to the
Super Bowl and you've got out of gas in the
Jets sitting there doing what the Jets do. They'll be
on the hook for six million dollars in base salary
for Bell this season. They also take a fifteen million
dollar deadcap money hit this season and four million in
(20:32):
twenty twenty one. Joy Before Christian McCaffrey, Laban Bell is
a receiving running back, was Christian McCaffrey. He was the
best receiver at running back in the league. People said
Labian Bell could be a receiver. They say about Christian McAffrey,
or he could be a receiver in the NFL. He
has amazing hands, but he has such a unique running
style it with that little delay and waiting for the blocks.
(20:54):
He just needs to be in the right situation. He
was in the right situation in Pittsburgh, wanted more money.
It's understandable. He can do whatever you want with your career.
The Jets is I mean, is the Jets the right
situation for anyone at this point? Who knows, But they
are going to be paying him for a while, and
any team that signs him can do so for the
league minimum, although he'll likely get more. Finally, Baker Mayfield
suffered a rib injury last weekends against the Colts, but
he's confident he will be able to play through it.
(21:16):
He plays the Steelers on Sunday, and Cam Hayward says
Pittsburgh defense. Pittsburgh's defense is going to stick to their
aggressive game plan against Baker. I'm not going to say
a parents tell you that. I know you know how
how bruised up he is, and at the end of
the day, I'm just trying to inflict good punishment. You know,
(21:38):
we played a physical game. He's going to come out
there and try to be a warrior for his team. Well,
it's up to us to make them think about that
injury during the game. It's really interesting because the betting
part of me likes Cleveland because I think they're a
real team. They're much more disciplined. Pittsburgh has one unit,
their front seven, that is so good. But I keep
(22:01):
going back to this, Pittsburgh has beaten bad teams, and
they're letting all of them hang around. They let they
let They're letting everybody. They let a Denver team on
with Jeff Driscoll hang around until the end. They do
have a they do have a solid defense. Though, Oh
it's it's you can't run against the Steelers. This will
be a great game because it's a vision game, it's
a rivalry game, and the Browns are actually good. This year.
(22:23):
The Steelers defense is tied with the Rams for the
most sacks in the league at twenty six and points
allowed per game, and third in yards allowed per game.
Baker was only sacked once against the Colts seven times
this season. I mean, when you think about how much
Joe Burrow has been sacked and Baker, Joe Burrow is
on pace to be sacked seven seventy times now. Andrew Lucke,
(22:45):
who was a pinata, got sacked like forty eight times.
Derek Carr, I think I want to say it's in
the sixties. David Carr I mean David Carr yam sorry,
um sixties and it basically thought people thought it ended
his career. Yeah, so Burro's gonna get sacked at least
seventy times, and Baker's only been sacked seven times this season.
He's taken fifteen quarterback hits over the entire season. The
hit was from Justin Houston from the Colts in the
(23:07):
last game. X rays were negative. But you know it's
to Cam's point, like they know this is That's why
I'm kind of with you, Like when you put these
injuries out there, like the defense knows, I've never gonna
their whole game plan is gonna be to go after
I've never understood this. I from a lititious standpoint, why
in God's name in the NFL should you have to
put the injuries out to the public outside of gamblers.
(23:32):
I mean, I can see if you're like, somebody's out,
we didn't just say he's out. Yeah, But I don't
want to hear my right guard's gonna sprain knee. Why
would I want that out there? I don't know. Mark
Schleyer told me if he knew if guys were, he'd
be like, oh, I know that defensive tackles, got a
bat but yeah, they all know they target you. It's
like outside of gambling. I don't get the point. Gamblers
love it, right of course, but that's obviously a huge
(23:55):
part of it. But like, what's the obligation to the
long term into the player? Crazy good stuff? Joy with
the news? Well that's the news. I have this theory
that it's always the third thing that makes you leave
a relationship, or a restaurant or a town. I'll give
(24:16):
you an example. Los Angeles is very expensive and the
traffic is not good, but the food's great and the
weather's great and there's a ton to do, so have
a lot of people stay here. New York was interesting
with COVID. New York's had a lot of people leave.
Why because it's really expensive, it's really crowded, and when
(24:38):
you couldn't go to the cool stuff that New York
offers and they shut it all down, weather ain't great,
you get to a Oh it's a third thing. Like
a restaurant. I'll go and think it's a little expensive,
the food's a little fatty, but unless the service is lousy,
I'm going if it tastes great. So the third thing
in a relationship. You know he's um. He doesn't make
(24:58):
any money, and he doesn't shower regularly. You could live
with that. But if he's a jerk, then she dumps you.
So don't be a third. This is the Jimmy Garoppolo thing,
Jimmy Garoppolo and San Francisco. So Jimmy Garoppolo has a
judgment issue. Adult film star franchise quarterback not good enough.
(25:23):
John Lynch was pissed, so was his coach. He's got
a judgment issue. Makes some bad throws. Judgment Also, we
kind of can be inconsistent week to week, half to half.
Here's another problem now, and this is why I think
he's in trouble. It's not missing the receiver in the
Super Bowl, Folks. He's hurt again, and Kyle Shanahan said
(25:44):
yesterday we are we would bench him again if he's
hurt in his division. Jared GoF got the crap beat
out of him for three years at Cal. He got
the crap beat out out of him when Jeff Fisher
was the coach. Jared Goff's taken a lot of hits,
never missed a start. Russell Wilson College pro never missed
a start. Kyler Murray college pro never missed a start.
(26:07):
I looked it up this morning. Jimmy Garoppolo now is
missed seventeen starts. It's that third thing, the judgment. That's
what I always say. Don't give teams Baker Mayfield, Johnny Manziel,
Jamis Winston, don't give him bad judgment because that you
(26:27):
come into a room and they got a mark. Because
as a young quarterback, you're going to be inconsistent. So
you're up to two. You give him a third, they're out.
Like Baker, Jamison, Johnny came in with judgment issues. You've
got a check. That's like going into a relationship and
she knows the people you've dated, and she knows he's
occasionally a jerk. You got to check against you in
(26:48):
the relationship. You haven't even gone out on a date yet.
So Garoppolo his judgment flawed. That was a really bad
situation as a Niner quarterback of Superstar, potentially in the
league going out with adult film start. I'm not judgmental.
I'm not a moralist. Anybody else fine, not my franchise quarterback.
Then we've seen inconsistency in his play. Okay, yea yeah,
(27:09):
he's mis seventeen starts. Last week they took him out.
He camp play like you're getting to a point where
and that's why Carson Wentz has a longer runway. You know,
Carson Wentz has been inconsistent and he's got some injuries.
But I can't think of a third They like him.
He works hard, he's got the arm, the talent. So
(27:29):
this is the situation for Kyle Shanahan and Jimmy Garoppolo.
You're starting to get me into a third check. And
that's just the way it's always worked for I've always
been like with friends, I can be okay if you're
occasionally I'm Doug Gottlieb's friend. He's always late. He's late
every time, so there's a check against him. Two more,
he's done. He's already got a check. He's late for everything.
(27:50):
You invite Dug over at seven at seven forty five,
I just now lie show up at six. He gets
there at seven fifteen, where everybody else is there. But
you get to that third check mark, that's when you
leave cities. I left Connecticut. Winter's awful. Most boring state
in the world, nice people, most boring state in the world.
And in the end it didn't love the workplace. Boom boom,
(28:13):
boom will come out right. So if LA starts being
nineteen degrees, I'm out of here because the weather and
the food and the people are keeping me expense traffic
not great. Frank Vogel, coach of the Lakers, happy for him.
NBA Championship head coach Frank Vogel coming up next. Be
(28:33):
sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and
noon Eastern a Empacific. You know, it is interesting. I'm
reading a story Jamal Williams of the Packers. Packers play
the Buccaneers this weekend, so Rogers against Brady, and Jamal
Williams says, you know, I'm pretty sure my quarterback knows
when fourth down is the jeep shot. But it is
(28:54):
interesting about this. There's been a lot made that Brady
forgot fourth down. Let me ask you something. I'll ask
Joy and I lost John this. I think we've made
way too much of this. During the pandemic March and April,
many of us, many of you, didn't work like we
couldn't work right, We couldn't go to work, we worked
from home. Did you ever one time wake up and go,
(29:19):
what the hell day is it? Yeah, I missed the
whole week. Actually, okay, so think about that because I
had one of those days, so I had lived an
entire Monday. I was reminded of it on my phone.
I was reminded of it watching television, and I would
forget what day it is. Tom Brady, new team, new system,
new coordinator, no preseason, no ta's on the road, short week,
(29:44):
top defense. Forgot what down it was. Folks, You and
I forgot what day it was during the pandemic. I mean,
in the throes of it, like it happens in twenty years,
you forget what down it is. I mean I I
can remember March and April literally waking up in the
morning and not sure. I'm like, oh, I'm not working today,
(30:06):
so today's Saturday. I was losing track of days. It happens.
It happens to the young people and old people. Joy's young, vibrant.
I'm not she forgot days. Frank Vogel first year as
a Laker coach, six years in Indiana, a couple of
years in Orlando. I was talking to my buddy Ryan
Rissilla last night, who loves the NBA. We were having
a beer, and we were so happy for Frank Vogel
(30:28):
and because we always thought this is a really good coach.
He just needs the perfect situation and he is now
joining us. Brought to you by Mercedes. Ben's the best
or nothing. You know, it's interesting a lot of times
when you get stars, Frank, it's like, Okay, do the
personalities work, do the styles work? Will they work with
our other assembled pieces? We thought, joy and I said
(30:50):
that Anthony and Lebron it's like they worked instantaneously. Take
me to the first practices, the first five or six practices, Frank,
did you think to yourself, wow, this is pretty good,
pretty fast? Well, yeah I did. And you know, obviously
being the first years as the Lakers coach and with
(31:11):
this this roster coming together, you know, all overnight, basically
in the offseason. You know, we expected it to take
some time before we really started to gel. Those two
seem to have instant chemistry both on and off the court.
And you know, I think, you know, when it starts
off the court and the relationship is strong, and then
you see the skill sets match up on the court
(31:34):
on both sides of the ball, you know, I would
say as well, we had a strong belief that we
had a chance to come out of the gates pretty strong,
and we did. Frank I had said all year, I said,
I've never seen a team in my forty years watching
the league that doesn't have a dependable third star that
can win a championship as good as they are. So
that was my takeaway is that who's going to be
(31:54):
the third guy? Almost every championship team needed that. Was
there ever a moment for you during the season that
you were concerned that, I'm not quite sure if it's Danny,
is it Rondo, is it Kyle Kuzma. Was that or
over concern for you or your staff? Um, I would
say it's it was a small concern, But I really
I never felt like there was that need, you know
(32:16):
what I mean, Like, I felt like, you know, we
were gonna have two guys that we're gonna bring it
every night and put up MVP type numbers, and you know,
to me, the rest of it came with ball movement
and all five guys being empowered to to be aggressive offensively,
and I actually liked the dynamic that it could be
a different guy every night. I liked that part of
(32:38):
our identity because it's harder to game plan against that.
You know, you don't know if it's going to be Rondo.
You don't know if the KCP is going to get
hop from Printer or Avery Bradley earlier in the year,
or your bigs are going to dominate on the glass.
M Kyle Kuzma, Cantavious, Callbo Pope. I mean it really
literally was a different guy every night type of dynamic
for our team, and I think it really worked for us.
(32:58):
I've said for years the most underrated part of the
NBA great teams all all highly functioning IQ's the bad
boys in Detroit. How many of those guys were coaches
or gms. They were all these tough guys, and You're like,
no, no no, it's one of the smartest basketball teams ever.
The Miami Heat dynasty. I thought, I've told Joy this,
it may have been the smartest collection of basketball players.
You can have like seven guys bgms on that team,
(33:21):
your roster, Rondo, Lebron. I mean, I'm just throwing guys
that have been around Danny Green take me, take me
into Rondo, because I thought he was washed, and then
the last two series, I'm like, he is so in
the head of Denver. He is, So tell me what
you can do with Rondo and guys like that that
(33:41):
you may not be able to do with a young
kid or a young player. Well, you can do things
you've never done before as a team, you know what
I mean. And as a coach that always makes you
very nervous. Especially you know, again, this is not a
team that's been together or a coaching staffs been together
for five years with a system and everything. So you know,
with guys being able to pick things up that that quickly.
(34:03):
Experienced guys have seen a lot of different things, know
how to execute different different coverages, um, you know, different
offensive spacing types of things. You know. Um, you know
that that was a great benefit of our team this year.
And I would put Anthony Davis in that class too,
is being an extremely intelligent player. And you know, when
(34:23):
when I start telling the story of the LA Lakers,
the intelligence piece is definitely going to be at the forefront. Yeah, no,
it needs to be. I mean most championship teams you
go to the Lakers, there's they become executives, they become coaches.
And this is a thinking man's game because so much
of it's situational. Now, you coached against Lebron for years,
and obviously we know how great he is. I mean,
you know, I've watched ninety percent of his games. But
(34:45):
when you now have Lebron and you have them at
practice and team planes and the bubble, was there a
moment early in it that you're like wow, like I
didn't see this, or boy, this is an additive this
is uh or even surpass your expectations seeing him every
day all day. Yeah. I think both in the early
(35:07):
on in the film room and on the court. The
film room in particular. You know, I'm a junkie with
with studying the tape, and um, I can't get enough
of it, you know, I like to do it, probably
too long at times, but there were some times early
in the season where um, you know, the film was
running a little bit line knew I had to cut it,
and he kept just answering questions, like asking questions and
(35:29):
putting guys, hey what about this, and if we do this,
they gotta do you know they do that, we gotta
do this and you know, hey, coach, what do you
think about this space? And he was so engaged in
these film sessions even you know, after the first five
to ten minutes, which is where most people and most
players you know that that's their time to check out.
Um he kept it going twenty thirty forty forty five
minutes into the film session. And when when you're when
(35:51):
you're lying in the locker room, is that attentive to
what's going on, the rest of the guys are too,
and you have a chance to really improve your team
without even touching the court. And um I would say,
the same same type of mindset with all our drill
work and spacing that that we were putting in practice.
You know, it's interesting, you were number one seed in
the West. Now you're a championship team, and so it's
(36:12):
very natural, Frank for players to think, listen, we know
what we are when it matters. How do you get
this team which is a lot of veterans that you
guys breathe. I mean, let's be honest, these are not
seven game series. You took care of people quickly. How
do you instill a sense of urgency for your second
act now that that you're ready to go in February
(36:33):
and March, because that can be that can be a
problem for championship teams, right well, you know what worked
for us this year is that, you know, the identity
we try to create early in the season is that
we were going to play harder than opponent every time
we touched the floor, and that that habit alone is
going to be one of the most important habits that
will win for us in the playoffs. So, you know,
(36:56):
to have that mindset, that's how we got out of
the gates eighteen and one or whatever we were to start.
And uh, you know, obviously throughout the course of the
season earn a number one seed and we're the best
regular season team in the in the West. Um, you know,
those habits that we built throughout the year, we talked
all year like these are the habits that are gonna
win for us in the playoffs. And you know it's
not a it's not a light switch and uh, it's
(37:18):
it's a it's a play harder than your opponent habit.
And UM, you know, I think that'll be the same
mindset next year, knowing that you know that habit established
over a quote unquote eighty two game season, um, is
going to be the very thing that is going to
win for you in the playoffs. Anthony Davis maybe one
of the best defensive bigs I've ever seen in my life.
It's hard to explain, Like, Tam a minute left, give me,
(37:41):
give me basketball context, Like what does he allow you
to do? I just think Rashid Wallace, I covered him
for years. I thought he was a great defensive big.
He was just he Rashid could cover anybody. What does
Anthony Davis do for you? Well, you said it right there.
He can cover anybody. It starts right there. Um, you
can put him on point guards. You put him on
(38:02):
Jimmy Butler in the playoffs, you put him on Jamal Murray. Uh,
Dame Lillard. We would have him switching out onto Dame Lillard.
You know at the ability to just put a guy
out there, they can guard anybody on the floor, even
the best scores in the whole world. You know, it
starts there. But you know his feet, his length, his
ability to protect the rim. Uh and understand coverages. Again,
(38:25):
the intelligence pieces put people don't understand about Anthony Davis.
There's a lot of a lot of shot blockers that
don't understand the discipline of the coverages, the angles that
you have to take, all these types of things. And
he really picked all that stuff up very quickly with
our group, with how we wanted to play, and you know,
it was just a star on that side of the ball. Yeah.
You can see when he blocks shots too, he often
(38:45):
blocks it with a purpose. He's blocking it to somebody,
to a space to get the fast break off and running.
Frank Vogel, Well, I've never won an NBA championship, but
I bet the wine tastes a little sweeter. Uh, just
a little lighter on your feet. Congratulations and Ryan Russillo,
we were talking last night having a beer about You're
one of those guys that just needed the right fit.
(39:05):
You got it. We couldn't be happier in congrats to you. Well,
Ryan's great. I've always enjoyed U. You know our interviews
Colin and U look forward to seeing around town. Yep. Thanks.
Frank Vegel, coach of the Lakers, his first championship. He
does live. Bumped into him at a Walgreens, both getting
both getting our toothpaste at the same place. Uh. Yeah,
(39:26):
it's really I mean that team was so functional situationally.
You saw it against Denver and you saw it like
it's just all all guys like getting the angles understanding
young guys getting where to be. The spacing boy Anthony
Davis is good defensively, I mean he is in a
Bill Russell I mean, really is. He's in a Bill
Russell class. He is incredible. Great Cosel next,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
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Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. It is a Thursday.
(00:25):
We are alive in Los Angeles. This is The Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
We're on Fox Sports Radio and right here on FS one.
One hour from now, NFL Meet Sandwich. If you bet football,
if you play fantasy football, or you just love football,
(00:46):
Greg ko Sell in one hour, I think the smartest
ten minutes of football conversation we have all week. Frank Bogel,
coach of the Lakers, and thirty minutes stops by. I
told you I saw him at Walgreen's earlier this year
in law. How bizarre is that the coach of the
Lakers to pull his mask down. He's like coward. I'm
like Frank Vogel. You go to Walgreens too, Boy, Taylor's
(01:08):
joining meets special Lakers tooth Bastes. I thought it was
so random. I'm like, I'm in the whole city of
Los Angeles. Ii'm in the Walgreens right next to Okay,
we're the only two people in the store. Well, I'm sorry.
He's happy to be back in Baste, over joyed. So
it's great to have you in. So it's very interesting.
This is a weekend of clarity in the NFL. There's
(01:29):
a lot of big games, the pretenders. We saw Buffalo
Tennessee play the other night, and it's like, maybe Buffalo
is a little bit of a pretender. Tennessee is absolutely legitimate.
And we're gonna see Green Bay in Tampa Bay and
all these games this weekend in Cleveland and Baltimore. You know,
it's very funny. The Dallas Cowboys play Arizona. The schedule
gets pretty weak for them right now, very winnable games,
(01:49):
and the feeling is Dak has gone and Andy Dalton's in.
I want to remind you that white year replacements due
will often define you when you don't go to work.
So when Drew Brees got hurt last year, Teddy Bridgewater
came in went five, and oh what did it do?
It got Teddy Bridgewater a franchise quarterback contract, and it
(02:10):
also affirmed that Drew Brees and Teddy Bridgewater it's not
much of a gap. And it turned out that Teddy's
now winning and Drew's not winning anymore in New Orleans
with a better roster. When Cam Newton missed the Kansas
City game this year, didn't play, oh my lord, oh
(02:30):
my god. That's a bad football team without Cam Newton.
So Breeze not playing probably hurt his status. Cam not
playing totally elevated his status. So what will it do
for Dak Prescott. The feeling is Andy Dalton and we've
seen this act before. It's not very good. Put this
(02:52):
old dude to rest this. You know, he'll play a
couple of games. And in fact, Patrick Peterson Arizona Great
Play are saying, hey man, we just want to force
this cat to throw the ball this weekend. Stop the running.
We definitely got to stop the running and force not
saying that he can't do it, but you know, we
have to force Andy Dalton to beat us. We feel
(03:13):
if you take the ball out of Ezekiel's Eliot's hands,
there's more opportunities for bad things that happened when the
ball is in the air. That's interesting. If I asked you,
I'm gonna throw this out there, Dak and Dalton, which
one has had this season with the most touchdown passes?
That would be obvious. That would be Andy Dalton thirty
(03:35):
three in dysfunctional Cincinnati with a defensive coach. All right,
which guy has had the most back to back double
digit win seasons, Well, that would be well, Dack's never
had that. That would be Andy Dalton for seasons in
a row. And by the way, he was in a
division with Pittsburgh. All was competent and Baltimore usually competent.
(04:00):
Everybody know that Andy Dalton's thirty two, no major history
of injuries. He chose Texas because he's from there. He's
from Katie, Texas. Andy Dalton's not a stiff. You watched
last week, right, You watched that last drive and you're like,
your expectations of Andy Dalton are so low, and all
of a sudden, you watch that drive and it's like,
(04:20):
I'm not saying he's his mobile is Dak. But you
watch the tape, look at the film, look at these throws.
That's a big boy NFL throw. Watch this throw. It
seems to me that's a that's a big boy NFL throw.
He's thirty two. The Cowboys schedule now is the weakest
(04:42):
in the league. For the next few weeks Arizona, then
it's Washington beat up Philadelphia faced Pittsburgh. Then they get
a buy but then it's a lot of Washington and
Cincinnati and forty nine ers can't get their act together
and home against Philadelphia and closed the season out. Andy
Dalton when he was in Cincinnati equally dysfunctional to Dallas
(05:04):
with a defensive coach, a conservative coach. We called Mike
McCarthy a conservative coach. But when Annie was in that
division six seven years ago and they had a bunch
of weapons, he wasn't asked to He wasn't asked to
carry the franchise. He was asked to be a distributor.
He kept winning the division. So Teddy Bridge Drew Brees
(05:25):
not playing didn't do him any favors, helped Teddy Bridgewater
Cam not playing did him huge favors. I just want
to remind you the first four years in the NFL,
Dack and Andy Dalton, we threw the numbers out. It's
the same dude, now I think Dak. I'd take Dack
over Dalton. And I've over the years been much tougher
on Dalton than Dak because they called him the red
(05:46):
rifle and I'm like, he doesn't deserve a nicknames. Let's
get off the red rifle nonsense. But the idea there's
this massive gap there really isn't. Dalton was drafted higher.
Dalton had a very productive college career. Dalton has had
more double digit win seasons. Dalton's had the more touchdown
passes in one season. And he is a distributor. He's
(06:10):
a distributor, and this team is built frankly for somebody
who's a distributor. So it's interesting. Arizona's takeaway this weekend is, yes,
force Andy Dalton to throw. That's actually, when he had
good weapons, the best thing he did in the hardest
way to beat him. All Right, So Alabama coach Nick
(06:31):
Saban is gonna miss the game this weekend against Georgia.
It's by far and away the best game of the weekend.
It's probably going to be the best college football game
this season. It's really really good, right, It's it's going
to be in the on a short list of great games.
So Nick Saban's got COVID. He came out and he said, listen,
protect we don't know how we got it. We wear
a mask, we socially distanced. He was very responsible, but
they got it. Here's what's remarkable. The average NFL star
(06:56):
player is not worth a point. The average college football
player is not worth half a point. Nick Saban, by
just not being in the stadium Saturday, it changed the
line two and a half points. Now, I want you
to think about this. The assistant that will take it
over as Steve Sarkisian. He has coached two major programs,
(07:16):
has a winning record as one bowl games. Alabama has
also had the same system in for ten twelve years.
This is not a new system. And because he can't
be there just for the game, it almost changes it
by a field goal. The gap between Nick Saban now
and the second best college coach, and I'll get to
that in a second. I mean, he's literally would this
(07:37):
happen with any other coach? He had Zoom meetings this week.
He was coaching him this week on Zoom. The system's installed,
Start's been there for years. This is unbelievable that it's
almost a field goal difference, and it's funny. One of
the things I always liked about Saban. There's a sense
that he's rigid, but the truth is he's really not.
He's evolved his offense every year. Every year. He's made
(08:02):
the life for his student athletes really amazing. They really
support their kids academically, they support them emotionally. I was
talking to a therapist yesterday about this. In football, Saban
offers layers and layers and layers of therapists, life coach,
life strategist. Alabama football players go into very productive lives.
(08:23):
He's never at an NCAA violation of note. Very few
of his kids get into trouble. He's lost twelve coordinators,
That's what I counted this morning. Now, think about that,
when Pete Carroll and Mac Brown at USC in Texas
legendary programs, when they started losing coordinators, the programs were
never the same. Urban Meyers an amazing coach when he
(08:45):
lost Charlie Strong, and I think like at Dan Mullen Florida,
never felt the same. Nick Saban's lost twelve coordinators, hasn't
missed a beat, No nc double A stuff. Mostly good
kids going to productive lives. He keeps evolving offensively. He's
(09:05):
just missing the game this week, just the game. He's
there on Zoom meetings, the offense is installed and the
fox bet. Those guys are like, oh, it's like three points.
That's two and a half points. The only coach in
my lifetime that really is close to him, and this
is somebody I have a lot of respect for because
I know Nick and I like nick A. Lott Is
tom Osborne. His last five years at Nebraska, he went
(09:29):
sixty and three and his last year thirteen and no
walk off. One of the great teams of all time.
He's to me the second best coach in the history
of college football. And one of the reasons is, like
Nick Saban, he really evolved. Woody Hayes became kind of
a relic. Joe Paul was kind of a relic. Some
of these guys like you know and people I like,
like Bobby Bowden, they're not really running the program. You know.
(09:49):
They show up and signed five or six kids, They
show up to the house mom and dad like him.
But the coordinators are running the offense. The coordinators are
running recruiting, the coordinators are running the program. Nick Saban
is like sixty six years old because he's just not
going to be at the game changes the spread significantly.
(10:09):
It's like this guy is just separated. I mean, to me,
it's Saban, it's Osborne, probably Bear Bryant, and then you
can argue over the last one. But I was shocked
by he has a head coach as an assistant who
has one Bowl games and one at two programs. He's
got a defensive system that's been in forever. He's also
(10:32):
not only lost coordinators, they often go get jobs in
his conference, take all his secrets and coach against them
and they're still there. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine
you work at a company it could be Coke. You'll
lose many executives. They go over to the other place,
they go up against you. They know all your trade secrets.
At PEPSI you'd have you'd be a struggle, right like,
(10:52):
Oh my gosh, Nick's coaching against his former assistance every
other weekend. No dip in the quality of the pros.
It really is remarkable. I've watched these great programs Florida, Texas, USC, Nebraska.
If they lose a top coordinator or two and the
(11:13):
program just goes down, He's lost eleven or twelve. I
lost count this morning. I think he's had seven offensive coordinators.
And he's coaching against Lane, and he's coaching against Kirby Smart,
and he's coaching against the kid at tennis see. Every
weekend he faces somebody that has all his trade secrets.
Remarkable which coach? Well, all right, my first, you know, joy,
(11:33):
I do this. I have what I call the Super
Bowl Bubble. Oh that's the first super Bowl bubble where
we're introduced. It's a only eight teams. That's my I
always believe there's eight teams every year that can win
the Super Bowl out of thirty two. And I have
my first Super Bowl Bubble. I feel really good about it.
This weekend a chance to knock two or three out
and put two or three in. But I feel really
secure about seven of the eight. Six of the eight
(11:53):
I feel very strongly about. And I do feel there's
a team in the bubble that is easily the most
complete team, and it's not the Kansas City Chiefs. Have
we ever said bubbles so much in one year? No kidding,
no kidding, our first bubble. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd Weekdays in noun Easter nine am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart
(12:14):
Radio app. Michelin Duran's xt Silicon wiper Blazes Real World
Tough available at Walmart, last two times longer than another Blaze.
So excited to talk to Frank Vogel today. I'm really happy.
I went to went out and saw a buddy last
night and had a couple of beers, and he knows
Frank Vogel and he was so happy for him. Everybody's
happy for Frank Vogel, and so of course Miami's not
(12:36):
that happy for him. So I do Super Bowl bubbles
and I usually wait for about a month to watch it.
And my Super Bowl bubble, I always believe there's eight
teams good enough to get to a conference championship, and
if you're good enough to get to a conference championship,
then you're good enough to win. So four teams get
to a conference championship. And I think there's eight teams
at any one point in the NFL season after the
first month, and then there's always two or three that
(12:58):
are close but not there they miss a component. So
this is my first Super Bowl bubble of the year.
Here it is. This is official the Rams, Bills and
Saints are close back. The Rams and the Bills played
to the last play of a game. In the AFC,
it's New England with cam Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Kansas City,
(13:22):
and it just so happens. In the NFC, it's Tom Brady,
Aaron Rodgers and the Packers and the Seattle Seahawks. I
will say this morning, green Bay to me feels like
the best team in America and the least flawed team.
And there's a reason for it. There's three stats that
are very important and Green Bay is really good at
all of them. Number one, green Bay leads the NFL
(13:43):
and yards per play almost seven yards of play. What
does that mean? They're explosive, they can get cheaper touchdowns,
free touchdowns. They make things happen. Number two is third
down conversion rate. They're top five in the NFL. What
does that mean? Generally means you have a good offensive line,
you get a push on third and short, you have
a teran quarterback who can audible in and out of trouble.
They have Aaron Rodgers. And the third thing is what
(14:05):
they call sack differential. Their top three in the NFL,
meaning they get to your quarterback and you don't get
to theirs. So those are three stats. They're very good.
I do not believe they have a hole. I do
worry about Davante Adams health, but every other team has
a hole. Seattle and Tennessee in my bubble, neither as
a pass rush. Let's be honest about Tampa Bay. There's
some mobility issues with the quarterback they have, and their
(14:27):
discipline is frighteningly bad at times. With Tampa New England
no deep threat, it tends to be kind of run centric.
Baltimore doesn't play well from behind, and Kansas at Pittsburgh
keeps beating bad teams and letting them stick around Kansas City.
Why do they keep falling behind. It's almost as if
psychologically Kansas City feels like, yeah, Patrick will save us.
You can't keep falling behind by ten and fourteen points.
(14:50):
That's just not the way it works. You can't do
it in this league. You're gonna end up facing with
your defense and offense that just keeps the ball away
and you lose games. So I think we have a
best team in the NFL, Green Bay. I think we
have close Cleveland Pittsburgh plays this weekend. If Cleveland wins,
then I think I would get them closer to the bubble.
But it's New England, Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and I've
(15:11):
got some reservations on Pittsburgh, but I trust them right
now defensively more than I do Buffalo's defense in LA's defense,
and I think they're more explosive offensively potentially the New
Orleans offense. So my eight are New England, Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh,
Tampa Bay, Tennessee, Seattle, and the Green Bay Packers. Yes,
I put Tennessee in there after they bludgeon Buffalo. What
(15:34):
am I supposed to not be impressed by? They're doing
everything well. They don't have a pass rush, but they
do everything else really well. Here's joy of the news,
No turns. This is the herd line news. Daryl Morey
is a poor least stepping down as the Rockets general manager.
According to Woods, Morey approached Tillman Turtita with the idea
(15:56):
of leaving after the Rockets left the bubble. Both sides
were fietly through an ex agreement to end his thirteen
seasons running the franchises basketball operations. So they I think,
did I say this to you yesterday, the Houston Rockets
is the worst good job in sports coach, because we
were talking about Tylu. It's just it's not going to work.
(16:16):
Harden and Westbrook are going to eventually face teams in
the playoffs and they're just situationally not built the play together.
They'll be fun, you'll win a bunch of games, and
I think Tyler is a good choice. But I think
that operation right now, I think you're kind of tied
to Westbrook's contract. I think Hardened had this conversation last
night with somebody around the NBA. He's obviously an unbelievable score,
(16:36):
but we've got to We've got, like now history on
the playoff stuff, and never will he ever set a
screen for somebody? Will will he get back and guard
the best player on the other team. So I think
this is I think Daryl Morey's actually making the right
move here. I really do. Well. He's going to stay
around in sort of an advisory role for a short
period to help them hire the new head coach. They
(16:57):
are reportedly planning to promote Executive vice President of Basketball
Operations Raphael Stones general manager and Eli wit Us to
assistant general manager so they may be promoting with in
house for the GM position, but more he's going to
work with him on the head coaching position. He'll get
a gig. Well, So there's a there's a couple of
things that play here. Obviously everyone's going to refer to
(17:18):
the China situation, which was a disaster. There's no other
way to put it. Cost the league four at least
four hundred million dollars for the entire league. It was everybody.
I can't get on Twitter day without somebody telling me
how much the NBA doesn't care about China off their iPhone. Yeah,
but that was obviously an issue. He has two college
(17:39):
age kids who are taking a year off from school
because of the pandemic, So he may just be wanting
to take a break and spend some time with them.
I mean, you've had your daughter around like this unprecedented times.
It's like you would never ever get this opportunity to
spend that much time with your kids in this situation. Also,
he has a lot of other things going on, so
there could have been multiple factors and in this exits on. Also,
(18:01):
you know, they may have just reached the end of
the road with what they were able to do. Like
we talk about the Rockets not being able to get
over with the hump. Obviously not all on More, but
you know, sometimes this situation's ends, so happens. Yeah, it's
not that I didn't feel like this was coming. But
I don't think it has to do with just the
China situation. No, I don't either, because the owner was
very supportive of him throughout that. Yeah. No, I just
(18:23):
think sometimes in any business joy things run their course. Yeah,
And I think this Daryl there, he's gonna get works.
I know Darryl pretty well. He's a really good guy.
He's very respected. Sometimes. You know, pat Rileo says, after
ten years, you're just white noise, like nobody listens to
your message. And that's why Spolster, by the way, works
(18:44):
now because it's all new players. Bolster's got all these kids,
so he gets like nine more years of the message
until they like, oh, that's why in college football you
can be there for so long. You're getting new kids,
every kids every year, right, right, So I this it
doesn't mean it's the end of anything. Harden will still
be great, the Rockets will still be by Morel's still
get a job. Tylu to me is the best fit.
Houston's going to be fine, but this time was coming
(19:06):
and it's only they didn't have success there. They had
the league's longest consecutive playoff appearance streak with eight They
advanced every single year and they just never got over
the hump. So, I mean, obviously they didn't reach ultimate
successive winning a championship, which was the expectation. But Maury
will be fine and the Rockets they are moving in
a different direction, right. So the Jets moved on from
Levion Bell, but it doesn't sound like he'll be a
(19:26):
free agent for long. Jeremy Fowler is reporting that Levion
has narrowed it down to three teams. He's choosing between
the Bills, the Chiefs, and the Dolphins. Oh the Chiefs
they need a red zone running back. His decision could
come today. Levion Bell and Patrick Holmes just followed each
other on Twitter, So like, yeah, I know you're not
watching Laban Bell choose Kansas City. It's nothing against Bryan
(19:50):
Flores or Sean McDermott. Defensive coaches. What do we say
yesterday if you're a running back or a receiver tied end? Yeah,
and Sean Payton or Andy Reader like, um, we're kind
of interested. Go to Kansas City. Just go to they can. Actually,
he'd be a great red zone piece running back for them,
could you. I mean it's gonna happen if he goes
(20:10):
there because it's Andy Reid. Oh it's it's gonna work
in two weeks, but it's gonna work. He's gonna have
a tremendous rest of the season, possibly go to the
Super Bowl and you've got out of gas in the
Jets sitting there doing what the Jets do. They'll be
on the hook for six million dollars in base salary
for Bell this season. They also take a fifteen million
dollar deadcap money hit this season and four million in
(20:32):
twenty twenty one. Joy Before Christian McCaffrey, Laban Bell is
a receiving running back, was Christian McCaffrey. He was the
best receiver at running back in the league. People said
Labian Bell could be a receiver. They say about Christian McAffrey,
or he could be a receiver in the NFL. He
has amazing hands, but he has such a unique running
style it with that little delay and waiting for the blocks.
(20:54):
He just needs to be in the right situation. He
was in the right situation in Pittsburgh, wanted more money.
It's understandable. He can do whatever you want with your career.
The Jets is I mean, is the Jets the right
situation for anyone at this point? Who knows, But they
are going to be paying him for a while, and
any team that signs him can do so for the
league minimum, although he'll likely get more. Finally, Baker Mayfield
suffered a rib injury last weekends against the Colts, but
he's confident he will be able to play through it.
(21:16):
He plays the Steelers on Sunday, and Cam Hayward says
Pittsburgh defense. Pittsburgh's defense is going to stick to their
aggressive game plan against Baker. I'm not going to say
a parents tell you that. I know you know how
how bruised up he is, and at the end of
the day, I'm just trying to inflict good punishment. You know,
(21:38):
we played a physical game. He's going to come out
there and try to be a warrior for his team. Well,
it's up to us to make them think about that
injury during the game. It's really interesting because the betting
part of me likes Cleveland because I think they're a
real team. They're much more disciplined. Pittsburgh has one unit,
their front seven, that is so good. But I keep
(22:01):
going back to this, Pittsburgh has beaten bad teams, and
they're letting all of them hang around. They let they
let They're letting everybody. They let a Denver team on
with Jeff Driscoll hang around until the end. They do
have a they do have a solid defense. Though, Oh
it's it's you can't run against the Steelers. This will
be a great game because it's a vision game, it's
a rivalry game, and the Browns are actually good. This year.
(22:23):
The Steelers defense is tied with the Rams for the
most sacks in the league at twenty six and points
allowed per game, and third in yards allowed per game.
Baker was only sacked once against the Colts seven times
this season. I mean, when you think about how much
Joe Burrow has been sacked and Baker, Joe Burrow is
on pace to be sacked seven seventy times now. Andrew Lucke,
(22:45):
who was a pinata, got sacked like forty eight times.
Derek Carr, I think I want to say it's in
the sixties. David Carr I mean David Carr yam sorry,
um sixties and it basically thought people thought it ended
his career. Yeah, so Burro's gonna get sacked at least
seventy times, and Baker's only been sacked seven times this season.
He's taken fifteen quarterback hits over the entire season. The
hit was from Justin Houston from the Colts in the
(23:07):
last game. X rays were negative. But you know it's
to Cam's point, like they know this is That's why
I'm kind of with you, Like when you put these
injuries out there, like the defense knows, I've never gonna
their whole game plan is gonna be to go after
I've never understood this. I from a lititious standpoint, why
in God's name in the NFL should you have to
put the injuries out to the public outside of gamblers.
(23:32):
I mean, I can see if you're like, somebody's out,
we didn't just say he's out. Yeah, But I don't
want to hear my right guard's gonna sprain knee. Why
would I want that out there? I don't know. Mark
Schleyer told me if he knew if guys were, he'd
be like, oh, I know that defensive tackles, got a
bat but yeah, they all know they target you. It's
like outside of gambling. I don't get the point. Gamblers
love it, right of course, but that's obviously a huge
(23:55):
part of it. But like, what's the obligation to the
long term into the player? Crazy good stuff? Joy with
the news? Well that's the news. I have this theory
that it's always the third thing that makes you leave
a relationship, or a restaurant or a town. I'll give
(24:16):
you an example. Los Angeles is very expensive and the
traffic is not good, but the food's great and the
weather's great and there's a ton to do, so have
a lot of people stay here. New York was interesting
with COVID. New York's had a lot of people leave.
Why because it's really expensive, it's really crowded, and when
(24:38):
you couldn't go to the cool stuff that New York
offers and they shut it all down, weather ain't great,
you get to a Oh it's a third thing. Like
a restaurant. I'll go and think it's a little expensive,
the food's a little fatty, but unless the service is lousy,
I'm going if it tastes great. So the third thing
in a relationship. You know he's um. He doesn't make
(24:58):
any money, and he doesn't shower regularly. You could live
with that. But if he's a jerk, then she dumps you.
So don't be a third. This is the Jimmy Garoppolo thing,
Jimmy Garoppolo and San Francisco. So Jimmy Garoppolo has a
judgment issue. Adult film star franchise quarterback not good enough.
(25:23):
John Lynch was pissed, so was his coach. He's got
a judgment issue. Makes some bad throws. Judgment Also, we
kind of can be inconsistent week to week, half to half.
Here's another problem now, and this is why I think
he's in trouble. It's not missing the receiver in the
Super Bowl, Folks. He's hurt again, and Kyle Shanahan said
(25:44):
yesterday we are we would bench him again if he's
hurt in his division. Jared GoF got the crap beat
out of him for three years at Cal. He got
the crap beat out out of him when Jeff Fisher
was the coach. Jared Goff's taken a lot of hits,
never missed a start. Russell Wilson College pro never missed
a start. Kyler Murray college pro never missed a start.
(26:07):
I looked it up this morning. Jimmy Garoppolo now is
missed seventeen starts. It's that third thing, the judgment. That's
what I always say. Don't give teams Baker Mayfield, Johnny Manziel,
Jamis Winston, don't give him bad judgment because that you
(26:27):
come into a room and they got a mark. Because
as a young quarterback, you're going to be inconsistent. So
you're up to two. You give him a third, they're out.
Like Baker, Jamison, Johnny came in with judgment issues. You've
got a check. That's like going into a relationship and
she knows the people you've dated, and she knows he's
occasionally a jerk. You got to check against you in
(26:48):
the relationship. You haven't even gone out on a date yet.
So Garoppolo his judgment flawed. That was a really bad
situation as a Niner quarterback of Superstar, potentially in the
league going out with adult film start. I'm not judgmental.
I'm not a moralist. Anybody else fine, not my franchise quarterback.
Then we've seen inconsistency in his play. Okay, yea yeah,
(27:09):
he's mis seventeen starts. Last week they took him out.
He camp play like you're getting to a point where
and that's why Carson Wentz has a longer runway. You know,
Carson Wentz has been inconsistent and he's got some injuries.
But I can't think of a third They like him.
He works hard, he's got the arm, the talent. So
(27:29):
this is the situation for Kyle Shanahan and Jimmy Garoppolo.
You're starting to get me into a third check. And
that's just the way it's always worked for I've always
been like with friends, I can be okay if you're
occasionally I'm Doug Gottlieb's friend. He's always late. He's late
every time, so there's a check against him. Two more,
he's done. He's already got a check. He's late for everything.
(27:50):
You invite Dug over at seven at seven forty five,
I just now lie show up at six. He gets
there at seven fifteen, where everybody else is there. But
you get to that third check mark, that's when you
leave cities. I left Connecticut. Winter's awful. Most boring state
in the world, nice people, most boring state in the world.
And in the end it didn't love the workplace. Boom boom,
(28:13):
boom will come out right. So if LA starts being
nineteen degrees, I'm out of here because the weather and
the food and the people are keeping me expense traffic
not great. Frank Vogel, coach of the Lakers, happy for him.
NBA Championship head coach Frank Vogel coming up next. Be
(28:33):
sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and
noon Eastern a Empacific. You know, it is interesting. I'm
reading a story Jamal Williams of the Packers. Packers play
the Buccaneers this weekend, so Rogers against Brady, and Jamal
Williams says, you know, I'm pretty sure my quarterback knows
when fourth down is the jeep shot. But it is
(28:54):
interesting about this. There's been a lot made that Brady
forgot fourth down. Let me ask you something. I'll ask
Joy and I lost John this. I think we've made
way too much of this. During the pandemic March and April,
many of us, many of you, didn't work like we
couldn't work right, We couldn't go to work, we worked
from home. Did you ever one time wake up and go,
(29:19):
what the hell day is it? Yeah, I missed the
whole week. Actually, okay, so think about that because I
had one of those days, so I had lived an
entire Monday. I was reminded of it on my phone.
I was reminded of it watching television, and I would
forget what day it is. Tom Brady, new team, new system,
new coordinator, no preseason, no ta's on the road, short week,
(29:44):
top defense. Forgot what down it was. Folks, You and
I forgot what day it was during the pandemic. I mean,
in the throes of it, like it happens in twenty years,
you forget what down it is. I mean I I
can remember March and April literally waking up in the
morning and not sure. I'm like, oh, I'm not working today,
(30:06):
so today's Saturday. I was losing track of days. It happens.
It happens to the young people and old people. Joy's young, vibrant.
I'm not she forgot days. Frank Vogel first year as
a Laker coach, six years in Indiana, a couple of
years in Orlando. I was talking to my buddy Ryan
Rissilla last night, who loves the NBA. We were having
a beer, and we were so happy for Frank Vogel
(30:28):
and because we always thought this is a really good coach.
He just needs the perfect situation and he is now
joining us. Brought to you by Mercedes. Ben's the best
or nothing. You know, it's interesting a lot of times
when you get stars, Frank, it's like, Okay, do the
personalities work, do the styles work? Will they work with
our other assembled pieces? We thought, joy and I said
(30:50):
that Anthony and Lebron it's like they worked instantaneously. Take
me to the first practices, the first five or six practices, Frank,
did you think to yourself, wow, this is pretty good,
pretty fast? Well, yeah I did. And you know, obviously
being the first years as the Lakers coach and with
(31:11):
this this roster coming together, you know, all overnight, basically
in the offseason. You know, we expected it to take
some time before we really started to gel. Those two
seem to have instant chemistry both on and off the court.
And you know, I think, you know, when it starts
off the court and the relationship is strong, and then
you see the skill sets match up on the court
(31:34):
on both sides of the ball, you know, I would
say as well, we had a strong belief that we
had a chance to come out of the gates pretty strong,
and we did. Frank I had said all year, I said,
I've never seen a team in my forty years watching
the league that doesn't have a dependable third star that
can win a championship as good as they are. So
that was my takeaway is that who's going to be
(31:54):
the third guy? Almost every championship team needed that. Was
there ever a moment for you during the season that
you were concerned that, I'm not quite sure if it's Danny,
is it Rondo, is it Kyle Kuzma. Was that or
over concern for you or your staff? Um, I would
say it's it was a small concern, But I really
I never felt like there was that need, you know
(32:16):
what I mean, Like, I felt like, you know, we
were gonna have two guys that we're gonna bring it
every night and put up MVP type numbers, and you know,
to me, the rest of it came with ball movement
and all five guys being empowered to to be aggressive offensively,
and I actually liked the dynamic that it could be
a different guy every night. I liked that part of
(32:38):
our identity because it's harder to game plan against that.
You know, you don't know if it's going to be Rondo.
You don't know if the KCP is going to get
hop from Printer or Avery Bradley earlier in the year,
or your bigs are going to dominate on the glass.
M Kyle Kuzma, Cantavious, Callbo Pope. I mean it really
literally was a different guy every night type of dynamic
for our team, and I think it really worked for us.
(32:58):
I've said for years the most underrated part of the
NBA great teams all all highly functioning IQ's the bad
boys in Detroit. How many of those guys were coaches
or gms. They were all these tough guys, and You're like,
no, no no, it's one of the smartest basketball teams ever.
The Miami Heat dynasty. I thought, I've told Joy this,
it may have been the smartest collection of basketball players.
You can have like seven guys bgms on that team,
(33:21):
your roster, Rondo, Lebron. I mean, I'm just throwing guys
that have been around Danny Green take me, take me
into Rondo, because I thought he was washed, and then
the last two series, I'm like, he is so in
the head of Denver. He is, So tell me what
you can do with Rondo and guys like that that
(33:41):
you may not be able to do with a young
kid or a young player. Well, you can do things
you've never done before as a team, you know what
I mean. And as a coach that always makes you
very nervous. Especially you know, again, this is not a
team that's been together or a coaching staffs been together
for five years with a system and everything. So you know,
with guys being able to pick things up that that quickly.
(34:03):
Experienced guys have seen a lot of different things, know
how to execute different different coverages, um, you know, different
offensive spacing types of things. You know. Um, you know
that that was a great benefit of our team this year.
And I would put Anthony Davis in that class too,
is being an extremely intelligent player. And you know, when
(34:23):
when I start telling the story of the LA Lakers,
the intelligence piece is definitely going to be at the forefront. Yeah, no,
it needs to be. I mean most championship teams you
go to the Lakers, there's they become executives, they become coaches.
And this is a thinking man's game because so much
of it's situational. Now, you coached against Lebron for years,
and obviously we know how great he is. I mean,
you know, I've watched ninety percent of his games. But
(34:45):
when you now have Lebron and you have them at
practice and team planes and the bubble, was there a
moment early in it that you're like wow, like I
didn't see this, or boy, this is an additive this
is uh or even surpass your expectations seeing him every
day all day. Yeah. I think both in the early
(35:07):
on in the film room and on the court. The
film room in particular. You know, I'm a junkie with
with studying the tape, and um, I can't get enough
of it, you know, I like to do it, probably
too long at times, but there were some times early
in the season where um, you know, the film was
running a little bit line knew I had to cut it,
and he kept just answering questions, like asking questions and
(35:29):
putting guys, hey what about this, and if we do this,
they gotta do you know they do that, we gotta
do this and you know, hey, coach, what do you
think about this space? And he was so engaged in
these film sessions even you know, after the first five
to ten minutes, which is where most people and most
players you know that that's their time to check out.
Um he kept it going twenty thirty forty forty five
minutes into the film session. And when when you're when
(35:51):
you're lying in the locker room, is that attentive to
what's going on, the rest of the guys are too,
and you have a chance to really improve your team
without even touching the court. And um I would say,
the same same type of mindset with all our drill
work and spacing that that we were putting in practice.
You know, it's interesting, you were number one seed in
the West. Now you're a championship team, and so it's
(36:12):
very natural, Frank for players to think, listen, we know
what we are when it matters. How do you get
this team which is a lot of veterans that you
guys breathe. I mean, let's be honest, these are not
seven game series. You took care of people quickly. How
do you instill a sense of urgency for your second
act now that that you're ready to go in February
(36:33):
and March, because that can be that can be a
problem for championship teams, right well, you know what worked
for us this year is that, you know, the identity
we try to create early in the season is that
we were going to play harder than opponent every time
we touched the floor, and that that habit alone is
going to be one of the most important habits that
will win for us in the playoffs. So, you know,
(36:56):
to have that mindset, that's how we got out of
the gates eighteen and one or whatever we were to start.
And uh, you know, obviously throughout the course of the
season earn a number one seed and we're the best
regular season team in the in the West. Um, you know,
those habits that we built throughout the year, we talked
all year like these are the habits that are gonna
win for us in the playoffs. And you know it's
not a it's not a light switch and uh, it's
(37:18):
it's a it's a play harder than your opponent habit.
And UM, you know, I think that'll be the same
mindset next year, knowing that you know that habit established
over a quote unquote eighty two game season, um, is
going to be the very thing that is going to
win for you in the playoffs. Anthony Davis maybe one
of the best defensive bigs I've ever seen in my life.
It's hard to explain, Like, Tam a minute left, give me,
(37:41):
give me basketball context, Like what does he allow you
to do? I just think Rashid Wallace, I covered him
for years. I thought he was a great defensive big.
He was just he Rashid could cover anybody. What does
Anthony Davis do for you? Well, you said it right there.
He can cover anybody. It starts right there. Um, you
can put him on point guards. You put him on
(38:02):
Jimmy Butler in the playoffs, you put him on Jamal Murray. Uh,
Dame Lillard. We would have him switching out onto Dame Lillard.
You know at the ability to just put a guy
out there, they can guard anybody on the floor, even
the best scores in the whole world. You know, it
starts there. But you know his feet, his length, his
ability to protect the rim. Uh and understand coverages. Again,
(38:25):
the intelligence pieces put people don't understand about Anthony Davis.
There's a lot of a lot of shot blockers that
don't understand the discipline of the coverages, the angles that
you have to take, all these types of things. And
he really picked all that stuff up very quickly with
our group, with how we wanted to play, and you know,
it was just a star on that side of the ball. Yeah.
You can see when he blocks shots too, he often
(38:45):
blocks it with a purpose. He's blocking it to somebody,
to a space to get the fast break off and running.
Frank Vogel, Well, I've never won an NBA championship, but
I bet the wine tastes a little sweeter. Uh, just
a little lighter on your feet. Congratulations and Ryan Russillo,
we were talking last night having a beer about You're
one of those guys that just needed the right fit.
(39:05):
You got it. We couldn't be happier in congrats to you. Well,
Ryan's great. I've always enjoyed U. You know our interviews
Colin and U look forward to seeing around town. Yep. Thanks.
Frank Vegel, coach of the Lakers, his first championship. He
does live. Bumped into him at a Walgreens, both getting
both getting our toothpaste at the same place. Uh. Yeah,
(39:26):
it's really I mean that team was so functional situationally.
You saw it against Denver and you saw it like
it's just all all guys like getting the angles understanding
young guys getting where to be. The spacing boy Anthony
Davis is good defensively, I mean he is in a
Bill Russell I mean, really is. He's in a Bill
Russell class. He is incredible. Great Cosel next,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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