October 13, 2020 • 39 mins
Justin Herbert looked special last night
Matt Ryan is really good when everything is going well but that rarely happens
We need to stop making excuses for Drew Brees.
Russell Wilson should be way ahead of Aaron Rodgers in the MVP race
Guest: Doug Gottlieb
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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(00:26):
live in Los Angeles. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be and however you may be listening, run Fox
Sports Radio and right here on FS one one hour
from now. The Herd hierarchy rich packed with flavor ten
playoff teams. What do I do with Brady in the Bucks?
(00:48):
They looked awful against Chicago? What do I do with Seattle?
Worst defense of all time? Statistically? Joy Taylor is joining me?
It appears Joy. We talk about this all the time.
All the quarterbacks are getting better. We appear to have
another new star at quarterback. Didn't see it coming, but
he has arrived. He is really good. Folks. I don't
(01:09):
want to hear about Michael Thomas. Wasn't there for Drew Brees? Stop? Okay,
justin Herbert's a rookie. Okay, he didn't have his starting
right tackle, his starting right guard, his starting running back,
and his best receiver Keenan Allen got hurt end of
the first quarter, and he went on the road against
Drew Brees and was a better quarterback and it wasn't close.
Passer rating the kid without two of his offensive linemen,
(01:32):
and the Saints have one of the best pass rushes
in the NFL one hundred and twenty three passer rating
four touchdowns, no picks. You can do so much more
with Justin Herbert than you can do with Drew Brees.
They moved the pocket out. He's got a rocket arm.
You can throw it deep short, It doesn't matter. The
question now is will the Chargers screw it up? That's
(01:54):
the question now, because where are you Land matters in
the NFL. Sam Darnold hunk shirt by his team, Josh Allen.
You'll watch tonight elevated by his look. How long it
has taken Baker Mayfield to finally get a grown up
as a head coach. Oh, Baker looks pretty good. Where
are you Land? Manners? And the Chargers have a good
(02:14):
GM and a lot of talent, But what a shock
last night, the coaching wasn't good and the special teams
lost the game. This kid has led in the last
three four weeks. He's led Mahomes, He's led Breathe, He's
led Brady in the fourth quarter. And they can't make
a kick or they co conservative with play calling. This
kid's a rock star. But this organization historically has gone cheap?
(02:38):
Is Anthony Lynn the coach? Well, let's look at his
own division. In order to win this division, Andy Reid,
Patrick Mahomes can Anthony Lynn outduel them. Forget Belichick and
the AFC, Forget John Harbon the FC, forget Mike Tomlin,
forget Sean McDermott, forget Mike Frabel. Is he as good
as daring as John Gruden is He's schematically clever like
(02:59):
Andy Read. All I know is this justin Herbert is wow.
The only two quarterbacks in the league that have this talent,
this size, this arm, this escapability. The two of them
are Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. And Patrick Mahomes got
a year to sit behind Alex Smith. Josh Allen was
awful his first year and a half in the league.
(03:22):
This kid is great. Now will the Charger screw it up?
Is Anthony Lynn right? Is Anthony Lynn good enough? He
wasn't last night? And if they decide he's not, Will
Dean Spanost the owner, go out and pay ten million
dollars for Lincoln Riley or ten million dollars for Urban Meyer,
not some retread coach like the Cowboys did. Will you
(03:43):
go out and spend big boy money to get it
John Harball, to go get a rock star head coach,
because we know in this league, if you give Lamar
Jackson John Harball, we know how it turns out really good.
And if you give Josh Allen a Sean McDermott excellent
young coach, we know how it turns out. You'll watch
tonight really good. We know that if Mike Rabel gets
(04:06):
his hands on Ryan Tannehill, what happens? Average quarterback then
better than average. Because I'm watching Justin I have questions
about this staff. They watched all these practices, they watched
all this game tape, and it wasn't until last week
the Chargers went, yeah, we think Justin Herbert's better. What
are you watching? I mean, there are things in life
(04:27):
that are subtle and nuanced. Justin Herbert has a massive
arm is huge. This kid. Everybody nitpicked him at Oregon.
So I watched a lot of Oregon football games because
I used to work in Portland. So they have an
offensive line coach as a head coach, very conservative, and
they don't have great weapons like Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU.
It's Oregon. They don't have five star wide receivers, right,
(04:48):
and so Justin Herbert. It was a very conservative offense
and at the end of the year Joy was here.
They decided at the end of the year in the
Rose Bowl, we got no games left for Justin Herbert.
Go for it. And did you watch him against Wiscon
It was consent at a great defense. They couldn't stop
Justin Herbert. It doesn't take much to this kid was
a Dean's List student in college and he majored in biology.
(05:10):
It wasn't like a lot of athletes who you know,
you find the major that kind of works for your
ability to not like, you know, go to practice and stuff.
He majored in biology. He was a Dean's lister. We've
had people of this network who have covered Oregon interviewed him.
They're like, oh, kid blows you away. The wisdom for
like a twenty one year old kid. But I wonder
about this. Can the Chargers elevate him because last night,
(05:33):
I mean when they joint that field goal, you were
all watching that game saying the same thing, Cots and Chargers.
When they went conservative with their play calling, you were
all saying the same things, Chargers. So the pressure is
not on Justin Herbert. That that it's been. It's been.
He's played four games. First game again, five minute heads up,
you're playing against Patrick Mahomes. I don't know, a little intimidating.
(05:56):
Can you imagine five minutes you're fighting Mike Tyson. Five
minutes you have to face messy five minutes Patrick Mahomes
a little nervous. He outplayed him for the first half
of that game. He outplayed Tom Brady first half of
that game. He outplayed Drew Brees last night. Are the
Chargers good at the pressures? Not on Herbert. It's on
(06:16):
the organization because the organization has a history of being cheap,
screwing up special teams and in and they got players.
Don't don't kill yourself. It's not what was me. Justin
Herbert's got real receivers. I mean it's a real football
team with real players. But four games the first one
a touchdown, a pick, second one to touchdown, a pick,
third one, three touchdowns a pick. Last night, four touchdowns,
(06:38):
no picks. Cameron Heyward of the Saints, great player on
a great defensive line said, oh, watch out this kid special.
He's a baller. Um, young kids out there taking a
lot of hits today. I think our d line our
I think our front seven got after him pretty well. Um.
You know, he made a lot of a lot of
great plays down the stretch. And that's something you know
(07:01):
that he may be a force to be reckoned with
for the years to come. He's showing, he's showing some
some huge potential. Cameron Jordan my bed, all right, let's
shift to this yesterday. I said something to Joy during
the show and it wasn't. I didn't wasn't trying to
be a hot take. But I watched Matt Ryan this weekend,
and I'm watching the NFL in twenty twenty, and I'm like,
Atlanta fired everybody, they fired their GM, they fired the coach,
(07:22):
and I'm like, i think I'd move off Matt Ryan
in one year. Cap space, you got you gotta keep
in this year next year. But if I could draft
the Trevor Lawrence, if Atlanta keeps losing, if I could
draft to Justin Fields, I draft him very interesting. The
owner of the Atlanta Falcons, Arthur Blank, said, we're not
(07:44):
quite sure what we're gonna do at the quarterback situation
with Matt Ryan. Matt is having has the ability to
play at a very high level, even at this age.
Whether that's going to continue or not, I'm not sure.
I appreciate his willingness to consider doing that and the
level of what he's played for for us for thirteen years,
which has been incredible, So I will have to say,
(08:06):
But then again, that's going to be a decision at
the end of the day. That'll be part of We'd
be up to the player, and would be up to
the coaching staff and whether or not, you know, Mac
can keep himself together, and I hope he's going to
be part of our plans going forward, But that'd be
a decision that I won't make. Not exactly a vote
of confidence. Matt Ryan's not bad. We all know that
(08:27):
Matt Ryan's not special and dynamic. We all know that
he's Kirk Cousins with an MVP. Would you move off
Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins gets talked about a lot because
kirk Cousin wins and got that initial big contract. But
kirk Cousins is actually more mobile than Matt Ryan. You
can roll the pocket out with him. Kirk Cousins actually
(08:47):
tells a better deep ball than Matt Ryan. What do
you do with Matt Ryan? I watched Matt Ryan this
past weekend. When everything's set up for success, it can
be nice. It's sort of like, you know, like marriages.
Everybody gets along in the honeymoon, the kids are at
camp for the summer, no win, laws around, and the
(09:10):
money's rolling in. But how's the marriage when the money's tight,
in laws are in town, kids are melting down. That's
a real marriage. That's what all of us go through.
Matt Ryan is great when everything's set up for him,
but it's twenty twenty. Nothing's set up for anybody. Justin Herbert,
(09:32):
Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. Those guys make plays
when the world isn't perfect. Matt Ryan plays in a dome,
there is no win. He plays in a warm weather division.
If he played in Pittsburgh, you'd see even more issues.
He has largely protected. Julio Jones plays in a dome.
(09:55):
But this is the real question your marriage. It's tested
when the kids melt down, not when they're away at camp.
And in twenty twenty, what's your quarterback like when you're
missing a left tackle, your top running back is out,
your number two receivers out, and your back is killing
(10:17):
you because he got sacked five times the previous week.
And that's for Matt ryan territory. He can't elevate. I'm
watching the NFL right now, and there's about seven teams
that I would say would not draft Trevor Lawrence, about
seven everybody else. That kid at Clemson, I'd take him,
(10:38):
sit him for a year in Atlanta, and move on.
If you want to be special, you got to have
a special quarterback. Matt Ryan is special when everything is
set up to succeed. As you watch the NFL going forward,
when is everything perfectly set up to succeed? The answer
almost never coming up. Stop making excuses. I know he's iconic,
(11:04):
and I know he's beloved, but we gotta stop making
excuses for an NFL player that's coming up. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noun
Easter ninety Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and
the iHeartRadio app. Great to have you in this excuse
I am tired of. Officially, I'm getting you know what
(11:24):
I mean. I don't like excuses to begin with. I
tell my kids this all the time. I don't want
to hear Victim hud got a good life. Granted, countertops,
We're all good here. I don't want excuses. I don't
want to hear Michael Thomas is not available for Drew Brees,
and that's the problem. I ain't the problem. Michael Thomas
is worth one point in Vegas. That's what he's worth.
(11:45):
NFL scoring has never been higher. I saw stat this morning.
Last year there were like twenty five games where they
scored over you know, like combined fifty points or something.
We're already at like twenty two. Michael Thomas is worth
a point. Okay, there's four old quarterbacks in the NFL.
Let's be honest to complaint too. Can't Philip Rivers and
Breeze right now? Can't win big with him? Big Ben
(12:08):
and Tom Brady. I think he can. But Breeze needs
to outsmart you, and he's great at it. But Sean
Payton is one of the smartest offensive coaches of my
lifetime in the NFL. He's on a short list. When
he wants athleticism or a deep ball, he brings in
Taysom Hill. And everybody's complaining last night on Twitter about
Taysom Hill. The Saints offense doesn't need Taysom Hill. Hell,
(12:31):
it doesn't. Their first six possessions last night against the Chargers,
who are a beat up mess defensively, yet no Derwin,
James Brandon Ingram's out, Bosa's limited. Their defense is a
wreck right now. They're all banged up. The first six
possessions Drew Brees led punt, punt, field goal, punt, interception, punt,
and the field goal was an eighteen yard drive and
(12:52):
they're only touchdown of the first half. They basically got
it at midfield. You're not smarter than Sean Payton. Sean
Payton's Watchington practice. Sean Payton's like, we gotta throw it deep,
we gotta bring in the other guy. We need an athlete.
We got to bring him the other guy. And I
love Drew Brees. A first ballot Hall of Famer. But
at some point I'll be on the air and I'll
be I'll have no more teeth left, and I'll be
(13:12):
hacking and weezing, and You'll be like, gh, it's over
for Colin. You can't win with Colin right now. Still
got a shot, Still got a shot with me. But
you know this is not about Michael Thomas. This is
a pop gun offense. I mean the offense is Alvin Kamara,
little dump pass, make it work. It's not a knock
on anybody. This is an elite defensive line, a very
good offensive line. Kamaras a stud. But but there's four
(13:36):
old quarterbacks in this league, and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees.
Your eyes aren't They're not fooling you, Okay, what you're
seeing is Justin Herbert. You can do a lot more
with Justin Herbert. You're gonna watch Josh Allen tonight. You
can roll the pocket, you can throw deep intermediate. I mean,
Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are the kind of guys.
Justin Herbert was getting the crap knocked out of him
last night. I mean he was throwing off he was
(13:57):
thrown off balance, he was throwing while getting hit. He's
got two offensive linemen out, he doesn't have his best
running back, Keenan Allen gets hurt and there and they
are a field goal away from beating Drew Brees. So
I don't want to hear about Michael Thomas. Great player,
he's worth a point. Okay, you got two offensive linemen
out for the Chargers. We all know what quarterbacks need.
(14:19):
Good coach, good offensive line. That's just as valuable. Joy
with the news. No, no, this is the herd line News.
Still win with you, huh, you can still win with
you right now. I feel like this year was like
you're Tom Brady Falcon's Super Bowl. Right. We had five
months with no sports, so we were behind twenty eight
(14:39):
to three, and then it came back, but you triumphantly.
You were an Edelman. You made a catch, You made
a kay The ball was one inch and Joy swooped
in and made the catch, or I wouldn't have won
it without you. I appreciate that. So. Dak Prescott's angle
injury Sunday brought up a lot of questions about his
future in Dallas, but Stephen Jones made it clear that
the team's feelings about Dak haven't changed, Jones said, he's
(15:00):
our future. He's special. If anyone can overcome anything, it
will be Dak. It's something our doctors feel like he'll
overcome and he'll come back better than ever. He's the
face of our franchise. He'll come back ready to go
next year. I saw Alex Smith play Sunday, Dak's gonna
be fine. It's a four to six month injury, as
gruesome and brutal as it was. And of course you
(15:21):
see that, and everyone's first thought, obviously, other than him
being injured and hoping that he gets well soon, is that,
oh my god, Like this what happens with the future
of him with the Cowboys, Like he did not sign
that long term deal. This is the risk that you
take when you bet on yourself. And everyone loves Dak
as an individual, and he's on everything right, so we're
(15:42):
rooting for him to be successful. It just feels like
he was going to be franchise next year anyway. So
that's how I feel like. I feel like Mike McCarthy, Well,
they'll franchise him again, and they'll say, listen, we're gonna
give you thirty five million dollars again. You know this
is in doubt are likely going to win NCS. I'm
not as confident as you are on that. I like
Philadelphia They're gonna pull it together because they just lost again.
(16:04):
I know it's week four or five. I think structurally
Dallas is everybody understand how limited the Giants offenses and
what it looked like Sunday. I'm not saying that the
Cowboys have it together either. They just have it together
a little more together. And then the other two teams
in the division are not in belhake bet well, I'm
lactose intolerant, so well, bet uh, we'll bet a dinner somewhere. Fine,
(16:29):
I'm Philly year Dallas. I'm I'm sticking with Dallas. But
I do think that Dak will be back next year
and franchise taged again. Yeah. My feelings about Dak with
the Cowboys changed when he was franchised the first time.
That kind of felt like, Okay, Dak's not going to
finish his career with the Cowboys because he's gonna get
franchise tags again next year and then unless he has
some spectacular over the top year where they make a
(16:50):
deep playoff run or get to the Super Bowl. What
is Dallas going to do because you're basically saying you're unsure. Now,
I understand that they offered him a contract, Yeah, but
they knew what contract that he wanted. And I mean,
for whatever your opinion about dak is as a quarterback,
he's forty two and twenty seven in the regular season,
in one and two in the postseason. He's not been
in the league that long, right, and he now has
(17:11):
a new head coach, So he's a he's dealing with
the circumstances that are there. Yeah, he's a franchise quarterback.
Nobody disputes that that. I never doubt he's a franchise quarterback.
The question becomes and he actually, one of the things
I like about him real durable, and he can move
and in twenty twenty, I like my quarterbacks to have
a little wiggle. So he's a franchise quarterback. That the
question is going to become. And there's a Garoppolo thing
(17:35):
where there's these bad Sundays and you're like, I can't
I can't go to forty, I can't go to thirty seven.
I'll go twenty nine thirty, And I think he's in
that sphere and I don't disagree with you, because he's
not going to carry a team to the super Bowl
and their defense it needs to be focused on right now.
I'm carried, Yes, definitely. Finally, Josh Allen has led the
Bills to a strong foreign O start in his performance
(17:56):
this year so far, as got the attention of former
MVP Patrick mahone ahead of their Week six matchup. Josh
has played top notch football, he VP caliber football. So
when you have the offense and defense that are both
thinking like that, they're gonna be a hard team for
us to beat in it, I'm ready for the challenge.
I didn't love Josh Allen in the beginning year. He
was awful. He has really really developed. I mean honestly,
(18:21):
that's where I when I see something like that, I'm like, Okay,
who's his coach? Who's his coordinate? Like when when when
a guy does boom, you're like, like Patrick Mahomes nothing
against Dandy Reid, but Patrick's got some gifts that are
just super natural. But in Patrick, I mean, Josh Allen
wasn't a good college quarterback. Like he was all over
(18:42):
the map as a college quarterback. He was terrible as
first year and then you see him turning around. He's
gonna get Brian Dable a really nice head coaching job
somewhere in this league. They'll be about five coaches fired
because when you watch him tonight, he is now accurate.
He always had a huge army, he's accurate. He's had
a tremendous development. Patrick Mahomes has things that you can
(19:02):
watch and say, Okay, no one taught him how to
do that. He just he just does it. He just
has that extra magic to him factor. Josh Allen doesn't
have that to me, but he is. He has developed
so much since he's gotten in the league, Like you
just can't den it anymore. Like he is a franchise quarterback.
He's playing tremendous football. The Titans had no positive tests.
(19:25):
So the Bills and Titans game is on for today.
What time is it on? It is at four Pacific seventies. Surly,
it's all the You know that I love the West
Coast a football, I love it. Give us a salad tomorrow. Well,
the Bills are favored by three and a half according
to Fox Bets, and it should be a good game
(19:46):
to night us who haven't seen the Giants for a
while so glad that they're back finally, the Braves kept
their undefeated postseason alive in Game one of the NLCS.
They can hit with the Daughters. At the top of
the ninth inning, Austin Riley hit a huge home run
to break the one one tie. That was just the
start of the Braves four run rally to get the
five to one win. Game two is today at five
eastern on FS one, and some big news with the Dodgers.
(20:10):
Clayton Kershaw has been scratched from today's game to two
back spasms, so Tony Gonzlin will get the mound instead.
Dodger fans are getting tired of winning the division and
not getting the payoffs they need to. They need to
get over that humps. Yeah, but that's big news that
Clayton's out big game today. It's not great. Yeah, joy
with the news. Well that's the news, and thanks for
(20:32):
stopping by the herd line. You know it is, Um
it's interesting like in basketball, Um, if you see a talent,
you're like, Okay, that kid's to talent and then he
just needs coaching and everything. In football, we see this
talent and then it's it's so weird. We talk ourselves
out of it. And like when you see Justin Herbert
(20:52):
at Oregon and you're like at the Rose Bowl, you're like,
do I was ky just running? Oh he's running over
with guys. What's consent? Had a very good defense last year,
and it's like there was a lot of criticism about him.
And I said this during the Rose Bowl and after
and during the draft, I said, Justin Herbert, I said,
I watched a lot of Oregon games because I you know,
I covered the Ducks, and I watched a lot of
(21:12):
Pack twelve football, and everybody watches SEC football, everybody watches
Big ten football. I watched Pact twelve football and that stuff.
And I said, I don't understand. He's a four point
student in biology. He's big, strong and mobile, and he's
a good kid, and he got better every year at college.
I'm like, I don't get the nitpicking. We did this
with Andrew Luck. We're like, Andrew Luck's arm is good enough.
It's a B plus arm in the NFL. It's fine.
(21:34):
It's like almost like we talked ourselves out of this kid.
Holy moley. I mean I just watched him last night.
I was like, whoa Doug Gottlieb Doug Gottlieb Show All
Ball with Doug Gottlieb, the podcast now joining us, brought
to you by Mercedes Ben's The Best or Nothing. Are
you a little surprised? A little surprise, Doug that there
(21:55):
was like like Anthony Lynn kind of pushed back, let's
start with Tyrod And then they kept saying it's Tyrod's team,
Like I look at that, and I think, man, what
it practice? Didn't you see it feels or were they
just protecting the kid? What were they doing? Well, there's
there was no OTAs remember right, there wasn't all the
normal stuff after the NFL draft column had gone away.
(22:16):
And if you remember when Anthony Lynn was in Buffalo
and they went to the playoffs for the first time
and I think thirteen years, Tyrod Taylor was his quarterback.
So there's you know, he had that, that was his
rabbi in the room, that was the guy who believed
in him, and he tried to have us believe that
you don't lose your job to injury. But you know,
Wally Pip lost his job to injury and never got
(22:37):
it back. And clearly justin Herbert is gonna Wally Pip
the Tyrod Taylor that said, look, there are a couple
of inaccurate throws and that's I think the biggest question mark.
You guys were talking about Josh Allen, and you know,
we all we've all bought into this idea that you
don't get more accurate at the higher level of football.
That was what held people back from believing in Lamar Jackson.
(22:59):
And look, it's still an issue at times with Lamar Jackson,
especially outside the numbers. It's still an issue at times
for Josh Allen, although they found a way to navigate it,
and it's going to be the biggest issue I think
for Justin Herbert. But Herbert was one of those guys
that checked a bunch of boxes. But it was like
one of those this is you know the old adage,
if something's too good to be true, it probably is.
(23:19):
I think that's what people thought. Yeah, I also think
in this I know it's two different offenses, I know,
two different coaching staffs, but there's some similarities there. I
think organ style, the tempo, the dinkin dunk, a lot
of screen passes in their offense. I think that that
covered up Marcus Mariota's flaws, and I think it covered
(23:40):
up some of the immense amount of skill that Justin
Herbert has because he's way better than advertised at this
point in his career. Doesn't mean top end he becomes
better than Burrow or better than than Tua, but as
of right now, it is stunning how good he looks.
You know, it is interesting about and I was talking
to a friend watching the games this weekend and I'm like, like,
(24:01):
there's certain guys in this league we know that are
not super dynamic, and we know they're not bad, Matt Stafford,
Matt Ryan, and you start watching them and you're like,
if I'm Atlanta and it's like and I'm Detroit, It's like,
I know they're talented, Doug, but the game's changing. You
saw it last night with Breeze. There's just only you
can't do certain things. And I said to myself, I
(24:22):
was like talking about Trevor Lawrence this weekend and I'm like,
I think there's seven teams that wouldn't take him. You know,
obviously Kansas City, Seattle, Green Bay. I mean, we know
who it is. I even think New England with Cam
would say we'll take him and just keep Cam for
two years. But when take Matt Ryan for instance, he's
been an MVP. If you could get Trevor Lawrence, would
you take him with Matt Bryan? If you're Atlanta, probably
(24:47):
I mean or you Yeah. Look, everyone has a value,
right It's like when when Khalil Mack was traded for
two first round picks, everybody said John Gruden one couldn't
get two first round picks. He did, and then you know,
how can you give up on your tea? Well, you
look at what you can surround your quarterback with. So
I do think that that Matt Ryan still has an
(25:09):
immense amount of skill. I mean they had leads in
all of these games to give away. Now, was he
part of the offense that gave away the lead, Sure,
but it was the defense that was completely dysfunctional in
a team that just found ways to lose games they
should rightfully win. So I'm not I'm not selling Matt
Ryan right now like others are. I think it just
(25:29):
depends what can you get from Matt Ryan. What can
you get for Trevor Lawrence? You bounced that out with
who's the new GM, who's the head coach, and how
long their contract is? Because in the short term, Matt
Ryan's gonna win you a bunch more games. In the
long term. Having a rookie contract under a rookie deal
and a chance to get something back from Matt Ryan
in return obviously looks profitable in the future. But but
(25:50):
the idea that you're gonna win right away with that
team that has a bunch of holes to it, look
Julio Jones isn't what it used to be. And Todd.
Everyone knows that Todd grew after the knee, some of
the work ethic issues. He's gonna have moments of greatness,
but he's not a great long term fit. That's a
team that probably needs to start over, and starting over
usually means the quarterback. But I think Matt Ryan still
(26:13):
has a lot more good football left in him. The
question becomes it feels like it has to be a
team in a dome because he's always had some arm
strength issue. I want to go to basketball. You know.
It's one of the things that really jumped out to
me in the bubble is how much leadership mattered Jimmy Butler.
I had my questions, but I really felt like, Wow,
(26:34):
this kid's a real leader. He plays with young guys.
He was. I I just already felt like my whole
opinion of Jimmy Butler changed. And I watched a lot
of these veteran teams, and there's a lot of great
players in this league, Harden and Westbrook and Jannis and
Paul George and Kauhai. But I looked at Lebron's leadership,
and I mean, he's got kids, he's got a family,
(26:54):
and he just pulled this thing, Doug. He just pulled
it all together. And I thought, if leaders it matters,
and I think it does. Lebron's the best player in
the league again next year, isn't he. He's the only
guy that I think can make everything work. And I
watched this bubble and I'm like, I think leadership was
fifty percent of the bubble. Beyond I would say that
(27:16):
the two things to me that that the bubble taught
people who don't pay enough or give enough respect to
the NBA is one. Leadership matters and coaching matters. Let's
not kid ourselves. Frank Vogel and his staff did a
marvelous Yes, okay, it helps, it fixes everything when Lebron
buys in. But he had to get Lebron to buy in.
(27:37):
They had excellent game plans, and he helped execute them
whatever was discussed in getting him on board. He didn't
fight him on things. And when your star fights the coach,
it ain't gonna work. So the first thing is coaching
did matter. I thought Miami, I thought it mattered for
the Lakers. I thought those were two beautifully coach teams.
But you're right in terms of leadership, but they're different.
(27:58):
You know, Lebron was a little abrasive last year as
a leader. This year he was just constantly in the
ear of Anthony Davis, and then Anthony Davis was his
number two, and Anthony Davis then cleaned up some stuff
in the locker room and and you know, look, there's
a lot of interesting stories that I think will come
out of the bubble. The Lakers weren't in great shape mentally,
and then you know, with what happened in Kenosha when
(28:20):
the league took like four or five days off, they
actually missed two games that helped recharge them. And then
their family showed up and that helped recharge them. And
then and then the Rockets were talking a little trash
to him. That helped him. And then the Clippers lost
and then they were like, well, the hell with it. Now,
we're gonna win this thing. We're already here, let's just
let's just finish it off. So I think that Lebron's
(28:41):
leadership not just in what he said and how he
carried himself, but how he respected his coach, but also
the fact that he empowered Anthony Davis to then be
his at tesche, his number two. And so it wasn't
just Lebron being a dictator in that locker room the heat.
He got a bunch of young guys, and obviously Jimmy
Butler finally found a group that will listen to him. Right.
(29:03):
Butler can be again abrasive and a know it all
and that old head who thinks he's seen and done everything,
but it did work with this group. I think coaching
and leadership was a huge part of the bumble. You know.
It's it's interesting we were talking about this yesterday on
the show that um, you know, greatness just isn't um talent.
Like I've always said that, you can say what you
want about Jim Harbaugh, but it's not just that he
(29:24):
made Michigan better. San Francisco, the Niners were a wreck
when he left, Like what happens when you leave? And
as great as Jordan is, North Carolina was great when
Jordan left. And by the way, the Bulls were fine
when Jordan left. They went fifty fifty five. But the
Brons teams's teams are terrible. When he leaves, they're horrible.
(29:48):
They like get the number one pick. Could I just
argue this forget talent as a foundational pick Rons. He
makes everything work, he makes everything better. He's a He's
an all time great player. Let's not do the Jordan.
When Jordan left the Bulls the second time, they were
an abject disaster. Now everybody else left as well. Okay,
(30:10):
when Lebron left Miami, one of the reasons that they
sank so far down was Chris Bosh had blood clots. Right,
if Chris Bosh comes back with that gigantic contract, there's
still a playoff team without him. You know, the first
time Lebron left Cleveland, they had won sixty one games.
They did they you know, they had gone all in.
Remember they got Shock and Anton Jamison. They tried to
(30:31):
throw everything to make it work, and then they tore
it all down. They fired their coach, they tore it
all down. So I think context does matter. But again
I don't I heard your foundational piece. If that's true,
then why wasn't their foundation better last last year. I
think it takes the right mix. I think that these
things take usually year to marinate. I mean, the truth
(30:53):
is that even when he got to Miami the first time,
it wasn't perfect that first year, and they had to
figure out the point guards situation. They jettison Mike Bibby,
they moved Chris Bosh essentially the center, and then they
acquired Ray Allen and the rest is in fact history, right,
So I think we have to understand that the Clippers
are going to be real next year, The Warriors are
(31:13):
going to be real next year, the Nets are going
to be real next year. Boston should only get better.
I think Milwaukee, as long as Yannis stays, I think
they'll be right there. I think it's going to be
an unbelievable year. Lebron and what he's done to me
was my MVP because of where this team was at
the end of last year. Magic quits. They couldn't pull
off the trade. People didn't want to deal with Polinka.
(31:35):
That's what everybody said. Tyler's the only coach. Tyler turned
down the job. And you look at now. They were
the best defensive team, clearly the best team in the NBA.
Whatever the road they had to go through isn't their fault.
But if you want to do the whole, what happened
when they left, when Jordan left the Bulls the second time,
they've never They've literally never recovered, never recovered except for
(31:58):
the year where they were the one seat. But Derek So,
I think he's great. I think he makes everybody better.
That's the true sign of a great player. But it
takes a while to learn how to play and function
with Lebron James, especially this version of Lebron James, who's
not as athletic as he used to be defensively, but
he uses his brain at a fifty times rate of
(32:18):
most NBA players to get everybody else to do the
things that he used to be able to do. The
Dugger Show after Ours on Fox Sports Radio, We're having
We're having stakes tonight, Doug and I and Washington. My cooking.
You don't know your way, you knew you're cooking. I'm
like Bobby Flay with a microphone. You're not called be cooking.
I'll be doing all the cooking. Very talented Doug Gottlieb.
Good stuff coming up next. I want to end the
(32:41):
MVP debate. Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers. Let's just stop it.
Let's not get into it. Let's there's certain times I
don't even want to engage in conversations. So I'm gonna
stop everybody else from talking about it. With a little
context on why it's not a competition. It's like burger
king McDonald's. You can be too, but it ain't close
to one that's coming up. Be sure to catch live
(33:03):
editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Easter nine a Empacific.
See the check engine light come on, don't freak out.
Getcarshield dot com. Deductible may apply to warranty when yours
runs out. So I saw some It's unfortunate. The media
has never been worse, and I'm seeing these Aaron Rodgers
should be the MVP stories in the last couple of weeks,
(33:24):
and it's like, stop, let's stop. Let me give you
some perspective on this. There's no story here. Russell Wilson
is five and zero. This Seattle Defense this morning is
statistically the worst in league history. In league history, here's
the worst four defenses for our radio audience. Seattle's won.
(33:46):
They're five and zero, including a win over Belichick and
cam Atlanta's is now the second worst. They just fired
their GM and their coach because of it. Drew Breese
twenty twelve Saints third worst defense. They were seven and nine.
Remember they had the best offense in the league. Drew
Brees couldn't get a winning record with the best offense
(34:06):
in the league when he had a bad defense and
the eighty one Colts were awful. You cannot win in
this league with a historically awful defense. So let's start
with that. Aaron Rodgers much better defense. Here's the other thing.
I mean. Russell has scored thirty five against Belichick, thirty
(34:28):
one against Brian Flores, and twenty seven against Mike Zimber
this weekend in a driving rainstorm. Three to good defensive coaches.
But ask yourself this offensive lines do they matter? Do
you know the number one rated offensive line in the
NFL this morning PF green Bay. Green Bay also has
a top five running back in the league, Aaron Jones,
a top five wide receiver, maybe a top two wide
(34:50):
receiver in Davante Adams. Green Bay also has an offensive
coach that obviously helps. I mean, you don't think Jared
Goff had a defensive coach that on offensive coach kind
of a difference. The only advantage Russell Wilson has over
Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson's number two wide receiver, Tyler Lockett,
is better than Aaron Rodgers number two wide receiver. Most
(35:14):
valuable is the ability that this is what Lebron just did,
to take a lot of disparate parts or average parts
and elevate all of them. You could know Aaron Rodgers
is number two in the voting, like Burger King is
number two to McDonald's. But it's not close. Okay, it's
it's not close. Aaron Rodgers could not take this offensive
(35:35):
line and this defense and be five and oh. Aaron's
in a easier division, with a better defense and offensive coach,
the best offensive line in the league, a better number
one receiver, and a better number one running back. It
ain't close. Seattle's five and oh worst defense in league
history so far, and they haven't even faced you know,
(35:58):
they haven't even faced some of the more dynamic offenses.
Bill Face. All right, Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys,
this morning on Dallas Radio, and the big questions, now,
what are you going to do with Dak? How are
you gonna pay Dak? Is Dak the future of the
NFL in Dallas? Jerry Jones, ever, the businessman doesn't generally
like to talk publicly about money. Totally get it. If
I own a team, That's how I would act. Said
(36:19):
this about Dak. We've got to be reminded that to
have a team that we've got to really manage how
we dole out our resources. Dak is deserving of anything
you want to put on a piece of paper, Relatively speaking,
he's deserved of that. And if you evaluate what he
(36:43):
can do to help us win championships, we've got to
make it work. So what am I saying? I'm I
saying exactly the same thing that I said the last
time we asked about this before the season started. It's
a part of the game, is the business and the
contract part. What's interesting about Dallas to me is the
Dack injury is gonna allow potentially Dallas to have excuses. Well,
(37:08):
I mean, we lost our quarterback where six and ten
were seven and nine. But let me offer this, Dallas
is rebuilding. They just don't know it. You watch the
Giants and Dallas this weekend. We know the Giants are rebuilding.
It looked like the same team. One had a really
good defense, one had a really good offense, one had
(37:29):
a bad offense, one had a bad defense. Let me
hear me out here. Offensive line now is bad. Defensive
line is old and not very good. Secondary outside of
Treyvon Diggs, not very talented. Linebackers expensive, overrated, banged up
outside of the wide receiving corps which is substantial, and
the running backs I like Pollard and Zeke outside of that,
(37:52):
What do you mean rebuilding because most of us know rebuilding.
Detroit is rebuilding, the Giants are rebuilding. Washington is rebuilding.
I'm not denying that. But there's also these teams, and
we also know Green Bay isn't rebuilding. In Baltimore is
not rebuilding. In Kansas said he's not rebuilding. We we
know that. But then there's these teams in the middle
that are and you're like, they just don't want to
(38:13):
talk about it. Dallas is rebuilding. What does rebuilding mean?
If you go into a draft, the next draft and
you've got half or more of your units need somebody
a playmaker because you're not making enough plays offens or defense.
You are rebuilding. And again there's seven eight teams not rebuilding.
Dallas needs two offensive linemen minimum one maybe two defensive linemen,
(38:37):
another linebacker, a safety, one to two more corners. They
could really use an elite tight end. Again, they don't
need a running back. Zeke and Tony Pollard nice dimensions.
They're like them both. Actually, I think Pollard's a little underrated.
Zeke right now is still really good. Wide receivers, they're loaded.
They don't need a draft a wide receiver for two years.
(38:58):
They are all good at wide receiver. But that is
why the CD Lamb draft pick to me was so weird.
Like you just paid Amari Cooper a ton of money.
You want to get him touches Michael Gallups becoming a star,
and you had Cedric Wilson in practice, And all I
know is when I watched Cedric Wilson, I'm like, that's
one of the better third receivers potentially in the league.
(39:18):
So I think the Dak injury gives Dallas opportunities to say,
you know, we're you know we were gonna be blank.
I think Dallas is rebuilding. I think they're a rebuilding team.
You go into a draft six units, need a playmaker.
You are rebuilding, and I feel Dallas is all right.
The Herd Hierarchy Hour two, Live in La Next The
(39:41):
Herd
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. You're listening to Fox
Sports Radio. Oh it is a loaded jam pack twesday
(00:26):
live in Los Angeles. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be and however you may be listening, run Fox
Sports Radio and right here on FS one one hour
from now. The Herd hierarchy rich packed with flavor ten
playoff teams. What do I do with Brady in the Bucks?
(00:48):
They looked awful against Chicago? What do I do with Seattle?
Worst defense of all time? Statistically? Joy Taylor is joining me?
It appears Joy. We talk about this all the time.
All the quarterbacks are getting better. We appear to have
another new star at quarterback. Didn't see it coming, but
he has arrived. He is really good. Folks. I don't
(01:09):
want to hear about Michael Thomas. Wasn't there for Drew Brees? Stop? Okay,
justin Herbert's a rookie. Okay, he didn't have his starting
right tackle, his starting right guard, his starting running back,
and his best receiver Keenan Allen got hurt end of
the first quarter, and he went on the road against
Drew Brees and was a better quarterback and it wasn't close.
Passer rating the kid without two of his offensive linemen,
(01:32):
and the Saints have one of the best pass rushes
in the NFL one hundred and twenty three passer rating
four touchdowns, no picks. You can do so much more
with Justin Herbert than you can do with Drew Brees.
They moved the pocket out. He's got a rocket arm.
You can throw it deep short, It doesn't matter. The
question now is will the Chargers screw it up? That's
(01:54):
the question now, because where are you Land matters in
the NFL. Sam Darnold hunk shirt by his team, Josh Allen.
You'll watch tonight elevated by his look. How long it
has taken Baker Mayfield to finally get a grown up
as a head coach. Oh, Baker looks pretty good. Where
are you Land? Manners? And the Chargers have a good
(02:14):
GM and a lot of talent, But what a shock
last night, the coaching wasn't good and the special teams
lost the game. This kid has led in the last
three four weeks. He's led Mahomes, He's led Breathe, He's
led Brady in the fourth quarter. And they can't make
a kick or they co conservative with play calling. This
kid's a rock star. But this organization historically has gone cheap?
(02:38):
Is Anthony Lynn the coach? Well, let's look at his
own division. In order to win this division, Andy Reid,
Patrick Mahomes can Anthony Lynn outduel them. Forget Belichick and
the AFC, Forget John Harbon the FC, forget Mike Tomlin,
forget Sean McDermott, forget Mike Frabel. Is he as good
as daring as John Gruden is He's schematically clever like
(02:59):
Andy Read. All I know is this justin Herbert is wow.
The only two quarterbacks in the league that have this talent,
this size, this arm, this escapability. The two of them
are Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. And Patrick Mahomes got
a year to sit behind Alex Smith. Josh Allen was
awful his first year and a half in the league.
(03:22):
This kid is great. Now will the Charger screw it up?
Is Anthony Lynn right? Is Anthony Lynn good enough? He
wasn't last night? And if they decide he's not, Will
Dean Spanost the owner, go out and pay ten million
dollars for Lincoln Riley or ten million dollars for Urban Meyer,
not some retread coach like the Cowboys did. Will you
(03:43):
go out and spend big boy money to get it
John Harball, to go get a rock star head coach,
because we know in this league, if you give Lamar
Jackson John Harball, we know how it turns out really good.
And if you give Josh Allen a Sean McDermott excellent
young coach, we know how it turns out. You'll watch
tonight really good. We know that if Mike Rabel gets
(04:06):
his hands on Ryan Tannehill, what happens? Average quarterback then
better than average. Because I'm watching Justin I have questions
about this staff. They watched all these practices, they watched
all this game tape, and it wasn't until last week
the Chargers went, yeah, we think Justin Herbert's better. What
are you watching? I mean, there are things in life
(04:27):
that are subtle and nuanced. Justin Herbert has a massive
arm is huge. This kid. Everybody nitpicked him at Oregon.
So I watched a lot of Oregon football games because
I used to work in Portland. So they have an
offensive line coach as a head coach, very conservative, and
they don't have great weapons like Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU.
It's Oregon. They don't have five star wide receivers, right,
(04:48):
and so Justin Herbert. It was a very conservative offense
and at the end of the year Joy was here.
They decided at the end of the year in the
Rose Bowl, we got no games left for Justin Herbert.
Go for it. And did you watch him against Wiscon
It was consent at a great defense. They couldn't stop
Justin Herbert. It doesn't take much to this kid was
a Dean's List student in college and he majored in biology.
(05:10):
It wasn't like a lot of athletes who you know,
you find the major that kind of works for your
ability to not like, you know, go to practice and stuff.
He majored in biology. He was a Dean's lister. We've
had people of this network who have covered Oregon interviewed him.
They're like, oh, kid blows you away. The wisdom for
like a twenty one year old kid. But I wonder
about this. Can the Chargers elevate him because last night,
(05:33):
I mean when they joint that field goal, you were
all watching that game saying the same thing, Cots and Chargers.
When they went conservative with their play calling, you were
all saying the same things, Chargers. So the pressure is
not on Justin Herbert. That that it's been. It's been.
He's played four games. First game again, five minute heads up,
you're playing against Patrick Mahomes. I don't know, a little intimidating.
(05:56):
Can you imagine five minutes you're fighting Mike Tyson. Five
minutes you have to face messy five minutes Patrick Mahomes
a little nervous. He outplayed him for the first half
of that game. He outplayed Tom Brady first half of
that game. He outplayed Drew Brees last night. Are the
Chargers good at the pressures? Not on Herbert. It's on
(06:16):
the organization because the organization has a history of being cheap,
screwing up special teams and in and they got players.
Don't don't kill yourself. It's not what was me. Justin
Herbert's got real receivers. I mean it's a real football
team with real players. But four games the first one
a touchdown, a pick, second one to touchdown, a pick,
third one, three touchdowns a pick. Last night, four touchdowns,
(06:38):
no picks. Cameron Heyward of the Saints, great player on
a great defensive line said, oh, watch out this kid special.
He's a baller. Um, young kids out there taking a
lot of hits today. I think our d line our
I think our front seven got after him pretty well. Um.
You know, he made a lot of a lot of
great plays down the stretch. And that's something you know
(07:01):
that he may be a force to be reckoned with
for the years to come. He's showing, he's showing some
some huge potential. Cameron Jordan my bed, all right, let's
shift to this yesterday. I said something to Joy during
the show and it wasn't. I didn't wasn't trying to
be a hot take. But I watched Matt Ryan this weekend,
and I'm watching the NFL in twenty twenty, and I'm like,
Atlanta fired everybody, they fired their GM, they fired the coach,
(07:22):
and I'm like, i think I'd move off Matt Ryan
in one year. Cap space, you got you gotta keep
in this year next year. But if I could draft
the Trevor Lawrence, if Atlanta keeps losing, if I could
draft to Justin Fields, I draft him very interesting. The
owner of the Atlanta Falcons, Arthur Blank, said, we're not
(07:44):
quite sure what we're gonna do at the quarterback situation
with Matt Ryan. Matt is having has the ability to
play at a very high level, even at this age.
Whether that's going to continue or not, I'm not sure.
I appreciate his willingness to consider doing that and the
level of what he's played for for us for thirteen years,
which has been incredible, So I will have to say,
(08:06):
But then again, that's going to be a decision at
the end of the day. That'll be part of We'd
be up to the player, and would be up to
the coaching staff and whether or not, you know, Mac
can keep himself together, and I hope he's going to
be part of our plans going forward, But that'd be
a decision that I won't make. Not exactly a vote
of confidence. Matt Ryan's not bad. We all know that
(08:27):
Matt Ryan's not special and dynamic. We all know that
he's Kirk Cousins with an MVP. Would you move off
Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins gets talked about a lot because
kirk Cousin wins and got that initial big contract. But
kirk Cousins is actually more mobile than Matt Ryan. You
can roll the pocket out with him. Kirk Cousins actually
(08:47):
tells a better deep ball than Matt Ryan. What do
you do with Matt Ryan? I watched Matt Ryan this
past weekend. When everything's set up for success, it can
be nice. It's sort of like, you know, like marriages.
Everybody gets along in the honeymoon, the kids are at
camp for the summer, no win, laws around, and the
(09:10):
money's rolling in. But how's the marriage when the money's tight,
in laws are in town, kids are melting down. That's
a real marriage. That's what all of us go through.
Matt Ryan is great when everything's set up for him,
but it's twenty twenty. Nothing's set up for anybody. Justin Herbert,
(09:32):
Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. Those guys make plays
when the world isn't perfect. Matt Ryan plays in a dome,
there is no win. He plays in a warm weather division.
If he played in Pittsburgh, you'd see even more issues.
He has largely protected. Julio Jones plays in a dome.
(09:55):
But this is the real question your marriage. It's tested
when the kids melt down, not when they're away at camp.
And in twenty twenty, what's your quarterback like when you're
missing a left tackle, your top running back is out,
your number two receivers out, and your back is killing
(10:17):
you because he got sacked five times the previous week.
And that's for Matt ryan territory. He can't elevate. I'm
watching the NFL right now, and there's about seven teams
that I would say would not draft Trevor Lawrence, about
seven everybody else. That kid at Clemson, I'd take him,
(10:38):
sit him for a year in Atlanta, and move on.
If you want to be special, you got to have
a special quarterback. Matt Ryan is special when everything is
set up to succeed. As you watch the NFL going forward,
when is everything perfectly set up to succeed? The answer
almost never coming up. Stop making excuses. I know he's iconic,
(11:04):
and I know he's beloved, but we gotta stop making
excuses for an NFL player that's coming up. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noun
Easter ninety Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and
the iHeartRadio app. Great to have you in this excuse
I am tired of. Officially, I'm getting you know what
(11:24):
I mean. I don't like excuses to begin with. I
tell my kids this all the time. I don't want
to hear Victim hud got a good life. Granted, countertops,
We're all good here. I don't want excuses. I don't
want to hear Michael Thomas is not available for Drew Brees,
and that's the problem. I ain't the problem. Michael Thomas
is worth one point in Vegas. That's what he's worth.
(11:45):
NFL scoring has never been higher. I saw stat this morning.
Last year there were like twenty five games where they
scored over you know, like combined fifty points or something.
We're already at like twenty two. Michael Thomas is worth
a point. Okay, there's four old quarterbacks in the NFL.
Let's be honest to complaint too. Can't Philip Rivers and
Breeze right now? Can't win big with him? Big Ben
(12:08):
and Tom Brady. I think he can. But Breeze needs
to outsmart you, and he's great at it. But Sean
Payton is one of the smartest offensive coaches of my
lifetime in the NFL. He's on a short list. When
he wants athleticism or a deep ball, he brings in
Taysom Hill. And everybody's complaining last night on Twitter about
Taysom Hill. The Saints offense doesn't need Taysom Hill. Hell,
(12:31):
it doesn't. Their first six possessions last night against the Chargers,
who are a beat up mess defensively, yet no Derwin,
James Brandon Ingram's out, Bosa's limited. Their defense is a
wreck right now. They're all banged up. The first six
possessions Drew Brees led punt, punt, field goal, punt, interception, punt,
and the field goal was an eighteen yard drive and
(12:52):
they're only touchdown of the first half. They basically got
it at midfield. You're not smarter than Sean Payton. Sean
Payton's Watchington practice. Sean Payton's like, we gotta throw it deep,
we gotta bring in the other guy. We need an athlete.
We got to bring him the other guy. And I
love Drew Brees. A first ballot Hall of Famer. But
at some point I'll be on the air and I'll
be I'll have no more teeth left, and I'll be
(13:12):
hacking and weezing, and You'll be like, gh, it's over
for Colin. You can't win with Colin right now. Still
got a shot, Still got a shot with me. But
you know this is not about Michael Thomas. This is
a pop gun offense. I mean the offense is Alvin Kamara,
little dump pass, make it work. It's not a knock
on anybody. This is an elite defensive line, a very
good offensive line. Kamaras a stud. But but there's four
(13:36):
old quarterbacks in this league, and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees.
Your eyes aren't They're not fooling you, Okay, what you're
seeing is Justin Herbert. You can do a lot more
with Justin Herbert. You're gonna watch Josh Allen tonight. You
can roll the pocket, you can throw deep intermediate. I mean,
Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are the kind of guys.
Justin Herbert was getting the crap knocked out of him
last night. I mean he was throwing off he was
(13:57):
thrown off balance, he was throwing while getting hit. He's
got two offensive linemen out, he doesn't have his best
running back, Keenan Allen gets hurt and there and they
are a field goal away from beating Drew Brees. So
I don't want to hear about Michael Thomas. Great player,
he's worth a point. Okay, you got two offensive linemen
out for the Chargers. We all know what quarterbacks need.
(14:19):
Good coach, good offensive line. That's just as valuable. Joy
with the news. No, no, this is the herd line News.
Still win with you, huh, you can still win with
you right now. I feel like this year was like
you're Tom Brady Falcon's Super Bowl. Right. We had five
months with no sports, so we were behind twenty eight
(14:39):
to three, and then it came back, but you triumphantly.
You were an Edelman. You made a catch, You made
a kay The ball was one inch and Joy swooped
in and made the catch, or I wouldn't have won
it without you. I appreciate that. So. Dak Prescott's angle
injury Sunday brought up a lot of questions about his
future in Dallas, but Stephen Jones made it clear that
the team's feelings about Dak haven't changed, Jones said, he's
(15:00):
our future. He's special. If anyone can overcome anything, it
will be Dak. It's something our doctors feel like he'll
overcome and he'll come back better than ever. He's the
face of our franchise. He'll come back ready to go
next year. I saw Alex Smith play Sunday, Dak's gonna
be fine. It's a four to six month injury, as
gruesome and brutal as it was. And of course you
(15:21):
see that, and everyone's first thought, obviously, other than him
being injured and hoping that he gets well soon, is that,
oh my god, Like this what happens with the future
of him with the Cowboys, Like he did not sign
that long term deal. This is the risk that you
take when you bet on yourself. And everyone loves Dak
as an individual, and he's on everything right, so we're
(15:42):
rooting for him to be successful. It just feels like
he was going to be franchise next year anyway. So
that's how I feel like. I feel like Mike McCarthy, Well,
they'll franchise him again, and they'll say, listen, we're gonna
give you thirty five million dollars again. You know this
is in doubt are likely going to win NCS. I'm
not as confident as you are on that. I like
Philadelphia They're gonna pull it together because they just lost again.
(16:04):
I know it's week four or five. I think structurally
Dallas is everybody understand how limited the Giants offenses and
what it looked like Sunday. I'm not saying that the
Cowboys have it together either. They just have it together
a little more together. And then the other two teams
in the division are not in belhake bet well, I'm
lactose intolerant, so well, bet uh, we'll bet a dinner somewhere. Fine,
(16:29):
I'm Philly year Dallas. I'm I'm sticking with Dallas. But
I do think that Dak will be back next year
and franchise taged again. Yeah. My feelings about Dak with
the Cowboys changed when he was franchised the first time.
That kind of felt like, Okay, Dak's not going to
finish his career with the Cowboys because he's gonna get
franchise tags again next year and then unless he has
some spectacular over the top year where they make a
(16:50):
deep playoff run or get to the Super Bowl. What
is Dallas going to do because you're basically saying you're unsure. Now,
I understand that they offered him a contract, Yeah, but
they knew what contract that he wanted. And I mean,
for whatever your opinion about dak is as a quarterback,
he's forty two and twenty seven in the regular season,
in one and two in the postseason. He's not been
in the league that long, right, and he now has
(17:11):
a new head coach, So he's a he's dealing with
the circumstances that are there. Yeah, he's a franchise quarterback.
Nobody disputes that that. I never doubt he's a franchise quarterback.
The question becomes and he actually, one of the things
I like about him real durable, and he can move
and in twenty twenty, I like my quarterbacks to have
a little wiggle. So he's a franchise quarterback. That the
question is going to become. And there's a Garoppolo thing
(17:35):
where there's these bad Sundays and you're like, I can't
I can't go to forty, I can't go to thirty seven.
I'll go twenty nine thirty, And I think he's in
that sphere and I don't disagree with you, because he's
not going to carry a team to the super Bowl
and their defense it needs to be focused on right now.
I'm carried, Yes, definitely. Finally, Josh Allen has led the
Bills to a strong foreign O start in his performance
(17:56):
this year so far, as got the attention of former
MVP Patrick mahone ahead of their Week six matchup. Josh
has played top notch football, he VP caliber football. So
when you have the offense and defense that are both
thinking like that, they're gonna be a hard team for
us to beat in it, I'm ready for the challenge.
I didn't love Josh Allen in the beginning year. He
was awful. He has really really developed. I mean honestly,
(18:21):
that's where I when I see something like that, I'm like, Okay,
who's his coach? Who's his coordinate? Like when when when
a guy does boom, you're like, like Patrick Mahomes nothing
against Dandy Reid, but Patrick's got some gifts that are
just super natural. But in Patrick, I mean, Josh Allen
wasn't a good college quarterback. Like he was all over
(18:42):
the map as a college quarterback. He was terrible as
first year and then you see him turning around. He's
gonna get Brian Dable a really nice head coaching job
somewhere in this league. They'll be about five coaches fired
because when you watch him tonight, he is now accurate.
He always had a huge army, he's accurate. He's had
a tremendous development. Patrick Mahomes has things that you can
(19:02):
watch and say, Okay, no one taught him how to
do that. He just he just does it. He just
has that extra magic to him factor. Josh Allen doesn't
have that to me, but he is. He has developed
so much since he's gotten in the league, Like you
just can't den it anymore. Like he is a franchise quarterback.
He's playing tremendous football. The Titans had no positive tests.
(19:25):
So the Bills and Titans game is on for today.
What time is it on? It is at four Pacific seventies. Surly,
it's all the You know that I love the West
Coast a football, I love it. Give us a salad tomorrow. Well,
the Bills are favored by three and a half according
to Fox Bets, and it should be a good game
(19:46):
to night us who haven't seen the Giants for a
while so glad that they're back finally, the Braves kept
their undefeated postseason alive in Game one of the NLCS.
They can hit with the Daughters. At the top of
the ninth inning, Austin Riley hit a huge home run
to break the one one tie. That was just the
start of the Braves four run rally to get the
five to one win. Game two is today at five
eastern on FS one, and some big news with the Dodgers.
(20:10):
Clayton Kershaw has been scratched from today's game to two
back spasms, so Tony Gonzlin will get the mound instead.
Dodger fans are getting tired of winning the division and
not getting the payoffs they need to. They need to
get over that humps. Yeah, but that's big news that
Clayton's out big game today. It's not great. Yeah, joy
with the news. Well that's the news, and thanks for
(20:32):
stopping by the herd line. You know it is, Um
it's interesting like in basketball, Um, if you see a talent,
you're like, Okay, that kid's to talent and then he
just needs coaching and everything. In football, we see this
talent and then it's it's so weird. We talk ourselves
out of it. And like when you see Justin Herbert
(20:52):
at Oregon and you're like at the Rose Bowl, you're like,
do I was ky just running? Oh he's running over
with guys. What's consent? Had a very good defense last year,
and it's like there was a lot of criticism about him.
And I said this during the Rose Bowl and after
and during the draft, I said, Justin Herbert, I said,
I watched a lot of Oregon games because I you know,
I covered the Ducks, and I watched a lot of
(21:12):
Pack twelve football, and everybody watches SEC football, everybody watches
Big ten football. I watched Pact twelve football and that stuff.
And I said, I don't understand. He's a four point
student in biology. He's big, strong and mobile, and he's
a good kid, and he got better every year at college.
I'm like, I don't get the nitpicking. We did this
with Andrew Luck. We're like, Andrew Luck's arm is good enough.
It's a B plus arm in the NFL. It's fine.
(21:34):
It's like almost like we talked ourselves out of this kid.
Holy moley. I mean I just watched him last night.
I was like, whoa Doug Gottlieb Doug Gottlieb Show All
Ball with Doug Gottlieb, the podcast now joining us, brought
to you by Mercedes Ben's The Best or Nothing. Are
you a little surprised? A little surprise, Doug that there
(21:55):
was like like Anthony Lynn kind of pushed back, let's
start with Tyrod And then they kept saying it's Tyrod's team,
Like I look at that, and I think, man, what
it practice? Didn't you see it feels or were they
just protecting the kid? What were they doing? Well, there's
there was no OTAs remember right, there wasn't all the
normal stuff after the NFL draft column had gone away.
(22:16):
And if you remember when Anthony Lynn was in Buffalo
and they went to the playoffs for the first time
and I think thirteen years, Tyrod Taylor was his quarterback.
So there's you know, he had that, that was his
rabbi in the room, that was the guy who believed
in him, and he tried to have us believe that
you don't lose your job to injury. But you know,
Wally Pip lost his job to injury and never got
(22:37):
it back. And clearly justin Herbert is gonna Wally Pip
the Tyrod Taylor that said, look, there are a couple
of inaccurate throws and that's I think the biggest question mark.
You guys were talking about Josh Allen, and you know,
we all we've all bought into this idea that you
don't get more accurate at the higher level of football.
That was what held people back from believing in Lamar Jackson.
(22:59):
And look, it's still an issue at times with Lamar Jackson,
especially outside the numbers. It's still an issue at times
for Josh Allen, although they found a way to navigate it,
and it's going to be the biggest issue I think
for Justin Herbert. But Herbert was one of those guys
that checked a bunch of boxes. But it was like
one of those this is you know the old adage,
if something's too good to be true, it probably is.
(23:19):
I think that's what people thought. Yeah, I also think
in this I know it's two different offenses, I know,
two different coaching staffs, but there's some similarities there. I
think organ style, the tempo, the dinkin dunk, a lot
of screen passes in their offense. I think that that
covered up Marcus Mariota's flaws, and I think it covered
(23:40):
up some of the immense amount of skill that Justin
Herbert has because he's way better than advertised at this
point in his career. Doesn't mean top end he becomes
better than Burrow or better than than Tua, but as
of right now, it is stunning how good he looks.
You know, it is interesting about and I was talking
to a friend watching the games this weekend and I'm like, like,
(24:01):
there's certain guys in this league we know that are
not super dynamic, and we know they're not bad, Matt Stafford,
Matt Ryan, and you start watching them and you're like,
if I'm Atlanta and it's like and I'm Detroit, It's like,
I know they're talented, Doug, but the game's changing. You
saw it last night with Breeze. There's just only you
can't do certain things. And I said to myself, I
(24:22):
was like talking about Trevor Lawrence this weekend and I'm like,
I think there's seven teams that wouldn't take him. You know,
obviously Kansas City, Seattle, Green Bay. I mean, we know
who it is. I even think New England with Cam
would say we'll take him and just keep Cam for
two years. But when take Matt Ryan for instance, he's
been an MVP. If you could get Trevor Lawrence, would
you take him with Matt Bryan? If you're Atlanta, probably
(24:47):
I mean or you Yeah. Look, everyone has a value,
right It's like when when Khalil Mack was traded for
two first round picks, everybody said John Gruden one couldn't
get two first round picks. He did, and then you know,
how can you give up on your tea? Well, you
look at what you can surround your quarterback with. So
I do think that that Matt Ryan still has an
(25:09):
immense amount of skill. I mean they had leads in
all of these games to give away. Now, was he
part of the offense that gave away the lead, Sure,
but it was the defense that was completely dysfunctional in
a team that just found ways to lose games they
should rightfully win. So I'm not I'm not selling Matt
Ryan right now like others are. I think it just
(25:29):
depends what can you get from Matt Ryan. What can
you get for Trevor Lawrence? You bounced that out with
who's the new GM, who's the head coach, and how
long their contract is? Because in the short term, Matt
Ryan's gonna win you a bunch more games. In the
long term. Having a rookie contract under a rookie deal
and a chance to get something back from Matt Ryan
in return obviously looks profitable in the future. But but
(25:50):
the idea that you're gonna win right away with that
team that has a bunch of holes to it, look
Julio Jones isn't what it used to be. And Todd.
Everyone knows that Todd grew after the knee, some of
the work ethic issues. He's gonna have moments of greatness,
but he's not a great long term fit. That's a
team that probably needs to start over, and starting over
usually means the quarterback. But I think Matt Ryan still
(26:13):
has a lot more good football left in him. The
question becomes it feels like it has to be a
team in a dome because he's always had some arm
strength issue. I want to go to basketball. You know.
It's one of the things that really jumped out to
me in the bubble is how much leadership mattered Jimmy Butler.
I had my questions, but I really felt like, Wow,
(26:34):
this kid's a real leader. He plays with young guys.
He was. I I just already felt like my whole
opinion of Jimmy Butler changed. And I watched a lot
of these veteran teams, and there's a lot of great
players in this league, Harden and Westbrook and Jannis and
Paul George and Kauhai. But I looked at Lebron's leadership,
and I mean, he's got kids, he's got a family,
(26:54):
and he just pulled this thing, Doug. He just pulled
it all together. And I thought, if leaders it matters,
and I think it does. Lebron's the best player in
the league again next year, isn't he. He's the only
guy that I think can make everything work. And I
watched this bubble and I'm like, I think leadership was
fifty percent of the bubble. Beyond I would say that
(27:16):
the two things to me that that the bubble taught
people who don't pay enough or give enough respect to
the NBA is one. Leadership matters and coaching matters. Let's
not kid ourselves. Frank Vogel and his staff did a
marvelous Yes, okay, it helps, it fixes everything when Lebron
buys in. But he had to get Lebron to buy in.
(27:37):
They had excellent game plans, and he helped execute them
whatever was discussed in getting him on board. He didn't
fight him on things. And when your star fights the coach,
it ain't gonna work. So the first thing is coaching
did matter. I thought Miami, I thought it mattered for
the Lakers. I thought those were two beautifully coach teams.
But you're right in terms of leadership, but they're different.
(27:58):
You know, Lebron was a little abrasive last year as
a leader. This year he was just constantly in the
ear of Anthony Davis, and then Anthony Davis was his
number two, and Anthony Davis then cleaned up some stuff
in the locker room and and you know, look, there's
a lot of interesting stories that I think will come
out of the bubble. The Lakers weren't in great shape mentally,
and then you know, with what happened in Kenosha when
(28:20):
the league took like four or five days off, they
actually missed two games that helped recharge them. And then
their family showed up and that helped recharge them. And
then and then the Rockets were talking a little trash
to him. That helped him. And then the Clippers lost
and then they were like, well, the hell with it. Now,
we're gonna win this thing. We're already here, let's just
let's just finish it off. So I think that Lebron's
(28:41):
leadership not just in what he said and how he
carried himself, but how he respected his coach, but also
the fact that he empowered Anthony Davis to then be
his at tesche, his number two. And so it wasn't
just Lebron being a dictator in that locker room the heat.
He got a bunch of young guys, and obviously Jimmy
Butler finally found a group that will listen to him. Right.
(29:03):
Butler can be again abrasive and a know it all
and that old head who thinks he's seen and done everything,
but it did work with this group. I think coaching
and leadership was a huge part of the bumble. You know.
It's it's interesting we were talking about this yesterday on
the show that um, you know, greatness just isn't um talent.
Like I've always said that, you can say what you
want about Jim Harbaugh, but it's not just that he
(29:24):
made Michigan better. San Francisco, the Niners were a wreck
when he left, Like what happens when you leave? And
as great as Jordan is, North Carolina was great when
Jordan left. And by the way, the Bulls were fine
when Jordan left. They went fifty fifty five. But the
Brons teams's teams are terrible. When he leaves, they're horrible.
(29:48):
They like get the number one pick. Could I just
argue this forget talent as a foundational pick Rons. He
makes everything work, he makes everything better. He's a He's
an all time great player. Let's not do the Jordan.
When Jordan left the Bulls the second time, they were
an abject disaster. Now everybody else left as well. Okay,
(30:10):
when Lebron left Miami, one of the reasons that they
sank so far down was Chris Bosh had blood clots. Right,
if Chris Bosh comes back with that gigantic contract, there's
still a playoff team without him. You know, the first
time Lebron left Cleveland, they had won sixty one games.
They did they you know, they had gone all in.
Remember they got Shock and Anton Jamison. They tried to
(30:31):
throw everything to make it work, and then they tore
it all down. They fired their coach, they tore it
all down. So I think context does matter. But again
I don't I heard your foundational piece. If that's true,
then why wasn't their foundation better last last year. I
think it takes the right mix. I think that these
things take usually year to marinate. I mean, the truth
(30:53):
is that even when he got to Miami the first time,
it wasn't perfect that first year, and they had to
figure out the point guards situation. They jettison Mike Bibby,
they moved Chris Bosh essentially the center, and then they
acquired Ray Allen and the rest is in fact history, right,
So I think we have to understand that the Clippers
are going to be real next year, The Warriors are
(31:13):
going to be real next year, the Nets are going
to be real next year. Boston should only get better.
I think Milwaukee, as long as Yannis stays, I think
they'll be right there. I think it's going to be
an unbelievable year. Lebron and what he's done to me
was my MVP because of where this team was at
the end of last year. Magic quits. They couldn't pull
off the trade. People didn't want to deal with Polinka.
(31:35):
That's what everybody said. Tyler's the only coach. Tyler turned
down the job. And you look at now. They were
the best defensive team, clearly the best team in the NBA.
Whatever the road they had to go through isn't their fault.
But if you want to do the whole, what happened
when they left, when Jordan left the Bulls the second time,
they've never They've literally never recovered, never recovered except for
(31:58):
the year where they were the one seat. But Derek So,
I think he's great. I think he makes everybody better.
That's the true sign of a great player. But it
takes a while to learn how to play and function
with Lebron James, especially this version of Lebron James, who's
not as athletic as he used to be defensively, but
he uses his brain at a fifty times rate of
(32:18):
most NBA players to get everybody else to do the
things that he used to be able to do. The
Dugger Show after Ours on Fox Sports Radio, We're having
We're having stakes tonight, Doug and I and Washington. My cooking.
You don't know your way, you knew you're cooking. I'm
like Bobby Flay with a microphone. You're not called be cooking.
I'll be doing all the cooking. Very talented Doug Gottlieb.
Good stuff coming up next. I want to end the
(32:41):
MVP debate. Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers. Let's just stop it.
Let's not get into it. Let's there's certain times I
don't even want to engage in conversations. So I'm gonna
stop everybody else from talking about it. With a little
context on why it's not a competition. It's like burger
king McDonald's. You can be too, but it ain't close
to one that's coming up. Be sure to catch live
(33:03):
editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Easter nine a Empacific.
See the check engine light come on, don't freak out.
Getcarshield dot com. Deductible may apply to warranty when yours
runs out. So I saw some It's unfortunate. The media
has never been worse, and I'm seeing these Aaron Rodgers
should be the MVP stories in the last couple of weeks,
(33:24):
and it's like, stop, let's stop. Let me give you
some perspective on this. There's no story here. Russell Wilson
is five and zero. This Seattle Defense this morning is
statistically the worst in league history. In league history, here's
the worst four defenses for our radio audience. Seattle's won.
(33:46):
They're five and zero, including a win over Belichick and
cam Atlanta's is now the second worst. They just fired
their GM and their coach because of it. Drew Breese
twenty twelve Saints third worst defense. They were seven and nine.
Remember they had the best offense in the league. Drew
Brees couldn't get a winning record with the best offense
(34:06):
in the league when he had a bad defense and
the eighty one Colts were awful. You cannot win in
this league with a historically awful defense. So let's start
with that. Aaron Rodgers much better defense. Here's the other thing.
I mean. Russell has scored thirty five against Belichick, thirty
(34:28):
one against Brian Flores, and twenty seven against Mike Zimber
this weekend in a driving rainstorm. Three to good defensive coaches.
But ask yourself this offensive lines do they matter? Do
you know the number one rated offensive line in the
NFL this morning PF green Bay. Green Bay also has
a top five running back in the league, Aaron Jones,
a top five wide receiver, maybe a top two wide
(34:50):
receiver in Davante Adams. Green Bay also has an offensive
coach that obviously helps. I mean, you don't think Jared
Goff had a defensive coach that on offensive coach kind
of a difference. The only advantage Russell Wilson has over
Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson's number two wide receiver, Tyler Lockett,
is better than Aaron Rodgers number two wide receiver. Most
(35:14):
valuable is the ability that this is what Lebron just did,
to take a lot of disparate parts or average parts
and elevate all of them. You could know Aaron Rodgers
is number two in the voting, like Burger King is
number two to McDonald's. But it's not close. Okay, it's
it's not close. Aaron Rodgers could not take this offensive
(35:35):
line and this defense and be five and oh. Aaron's
in a easier division, with a better defense and offensive coach,
the best offensive line in the league, a better number
one receiver, and a better number one running back. It
ain't close. Seattle's five and oh worst defense in league
history so far, and they haven't even faced you know,
(35:58):
they haven't even faced some of the more dynamic offenses.
Bill Face. All right, Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys,
this morning on Dallas Radio, and the big questions, now,
what are you going to do with Dak? How are
you gonna pay Dak? Is Dak the future of the
NFL in Dallas? Jerry Jones, ever, the businessman doesn't generally
like to talk publicly about money. Totally get it. If
I own a team, That's how I would act. Said
(36:19):
this about Dak. We've got to be reminded that to
have a team that we've got to really manage how
we dole out our resources. Dak is deserving of anything
you want to put on a piece of paper, Relatively speaking,
he's deserved of that. And if you evaluate what he
(36:43):
can do to help us win championships, we've got to
make it work. So what am I saying? I'm I
saying exactly the same thing that I said the last
time we asked about this before the season started. It's
a part of the game, is the business and the
contract part. What's interesting about Dallas to me is the
Dack injury is gonna allow potentially Dallas to have excuses. Well,
(37:08):
I mean, we lost our quarterback where six and ten
were seven and nine. But let me offer this, Dallas
is rebuilding. They just don't know it. You watch the
Giants and Dallas this weekend. We know the Giants are rebuilding.
It looked like the same team. One had a really
good defense, one had a really good offense, one had
(37:29):
a bad offense, one had a bad defense. Let me
hear me out here. Offensive line now is bad. Defensive
line is old and not very good. Secondary outside of
Treyvon Diggs, not very talented. Linebackers expensive, overrated, banged up
outside of the wide receiving corps which is substantial, and
the running backs I like Pollard and Zeke outside of that,
(37:52):
What do you mean rebuilding because most of us know rebuilding.
Detroit is rebuilding, the Giants are rebuilding. Washington is rebuilding.
I'm not denying that. But there's also these teams, and
we also know Green Bay isn't rebuilding. In Baltimore is
not rebuilding. In Kansas said he's not rebuilding. We we
know that. But then there's these teams in the middle
that are and you're like, they just don't want to
(38:13):
talk about it. Dallas is rebuilding. What does rebuilding mean?
If you go into a draft, the next draft and
you've got half or more of your units need somebody
a playmaker because you're not making enough plays offens or defense.
You are rebuilding. And again there's seven eight teams not rebuilding.
Dallas needs two offensive linemen minimum one maybe two defensive linemen,
(38:37):
another linebacker, a safety, one to two more corners. They
could really use an elite tight end. Again, they don't
need a running back. Zeke and Tony Pollard nice dimensions.
They're like them both. Actually, I think Pollard's a little underrated.
Zeke right now is still really good. Wide receivers, they're loaded.
They don't need a draft a wide receiver for two years.
(38:58):
They are all good at wide receiver. But that is
why the CD Lamb draft pick to me was so weird.
Like you just paid Amari Cooper a ton of money.
You want to get him touches Michael Gallups becoming a star,
and you had Cedric Wilson in practice, And all I
know is when I watched Cedric Wilson, I'm like, that's
one of the better third receivers potentially in the league.
(39:18):
So I think the Dak injury gives Dallas opportunities to say,
you know, we're you know we were gonna be blank.
I think Dallas is rebuilding. I think they're a rebuilding team.
You go into a draft six units, need a playmaker.
You are rebuilding, and I feel Dallas is all right.
The Herd Hierarchy Hour two, Live in La Next The
(39:41):
Herd
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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