September 15, 2020 • 39 mins
The Steelers were a little rusty but have higher standards while the Giants were just plain bad
Colin thinks HC Bruce Arians is a little off with his comments about Tom Brady
Even though the Broncos lost, they have a high ceiling
The Cowboys are another injury away from having problems
Guest: Doug Gottlieb
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
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Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
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Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a packed Tuesday,
(00:26):
live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd. Wherever you
may be and however you may be listening. We're on
Fox Sports Radio and right here on f S one
one hour from now, our first in season heard hierarchy
one through ten ten best teams in the NFL. I
(00:47):
think you know who I have number one. I don't
think you know who I have three through ten, and
Joy Taylor is joining me. Two games last night games.
Steelers back your Pittsburgh Girl, Steelers back nice win. I
liked it. I liked it from Ben he looked he
looked like Ben Roethlisberger. He did which Shaggy I can
(01:10):
go a lot different ways. All right, let me start
with this. We know what the Steelers are. The last
decade they've been the Mike Tyson of the NFL man,
they beat up on bad teams, they roll average teams.
Mike Tyson did that. If you were average past your prime,
a B fighter man, you look at Tyson, You're like
(01:32):
he'd destroyed the greatest fighters of all time. But when
you put Lennox Lewis in the ring with him, he
was outclassed. When you put Evander Holyfield two times in
the ring with him, a great technical fighter, a guy
with a chin, Mike Tyson looked lost. That's what the
Steelers are. We knew the Steelers. We're gonna beat a
(01:52):
new head coach. Do you understand the last decade the
Pittsburgh Steelers against the Browns and Bengals bad organizations are
thirty three, six and one. But what are they against
the Ravens and the Patriots in the last decade ten
and eighteen? And those are the teams you gotta beat
to get to the land where the Steelers feel is
(02:17):
theirs super bowls. That's that's what Pittsburgh is about. This
is not the New York Mets. This is not the Jags. Know,
this is not you know, the Milwaukee Bucks. These are
the Pittsburg Steelers. This is you know, looking for the
fifth ring, you know, one for the thumb. This is
this is the Pittsburgh Steelers, right even last year they
were eight and two on their third string quarterback, a
(02:38):
guy named Duck. And when you're the Steelers and you
have great ownership and a great GM and a Hall
of Fame quarterback, and they always have great weapon and
they alwas have great wide receivers and a good offensive
line and linebackers that can run over the field. But
you have continuity, you're gonna beat half the teams on
your schedule just because you're not a dumpster fire, and
(02:59):
they never are. Last night was classic Pittsburgh. WHOA. I
think they're a super Bowl team. They dominated, Yeah, because
they're buttoned up in terms of Organizationally, they draft well,
they develop players, they do a great job. But then
(03:20):
they run into those elite teams and those elite quarterbacks,
and you do get in twenty twenty. The AFC runs
through Andy Reid Hall of Famer, Patrick Mahomes gonna be
a Hall of Famer, Lamar Jackson world class. John Harbaugh
probably gets into the Hall of Fame. The Giants are
not what you gotta get through the New York Giants.
(03:40):
New head coach, new coordinator, new system, second year quarterback
in Daniel Jones. Pittsburgh's been beaten up on that for
the last decade. That's not the issue. The Giants are
a lot closer to the Browns and the Bengals than
they are to the Ravens and the Chiefs. Today, the
Giants are a mess. I know what I get from
Pittsburgh when they faced teams like that. I mean again,
(04:03):
just having their front office and their ownership in Big
Ben and continuity, which they almost always have. That's gonna
a solid head coach and a solid quarterback. You know,
you're gonna win a bunch of games in the NFL
just because you've got your you know what together. But
but the Steelers nine and seven and out in the
first round, ten and six, second in the division, wild
(04:24):
car out in the first round, That's not what the
Steelers are about. Their standards are much much higher. Their
standards are the Ravens standards, and you know, the Packers
standards and the Patriot standards. That's their standards here. And
last night, you know it. Last night my two takeaways
(04:45):
The New York Giants stink and number two, it's good
to have been big Ben back. It's cold to have
Big Ben back. I'm happy to see Big Ben. Fan
of Duck Hodges, but good to have Big Ben back.
And although receivers and the Steelers and the winning it's
Monday night. But Mike Tomlin, he knows the truth about
(05:07):
this season, and he knows the truth about last night.
I thought they showed them metal um. I thought that
they were physically tough, mentally tough. But we we gotta
we gotta do some things better. And you know, we
knew we weren't going to be perfect tonight. We talked
about that openly last night in preparation for this opportunity.
(05:27):
But but there's more meat on the bone, and I appreciate,
appreciate the efforts. We just got to search for a
higher sealing in terms of quality of play. At least
the coach knows. That's the good news. He knows what
he saw. He knows what they have to be to
get back to a Steeler level, not beating a lousy
Giants team, Browns and Bengals and all that NFL nonsense. Okay,
(05:51):
so uh, nobody likes criticism. Let's be honest about it.
I don't like it. You don't like it, even constructive
criticism from people we respect. We don't sleep well that night.
Tom Brady got ripped by his coach. The word was
a little loose for my taste, Bruce Arians criticizing Tom Brady.
(06:13):
The wording at the end of this is not real precise.
Here we go, Yeah, I mean he looked like Tom
Brady in practice all the time, so it's kind of
unusual to see that in the ballgame because they didn't
do the things that we didn't get ready for. Everything
they did, we were we thought we were ready for.
He knew he didn't play very well, and it's not
(06:33):
what he expects from himself, nor do we expect. So
I want to anticipate him to have a little more
grit and a little more determination this week. Excuse me,
Tom Brady wasn't determined enough. I don't know if your
television set's been working for twenty years. Tom's got issues.
He's not the greatest athlete. But the determination thing, I'm
(06:58):
gonna go with. Tom's good on that secret practices helicopters
hovering at high schools in Tampa. You gotta be careful here.
Bruce Arians is loose his lips are loose. His teams
are loose. Last year led the NFL and penalties the
first week nine penalties punt block. That's Tampa. That's Bruce Arians.
(07:20):
By the way, Arians admitted after looking at the film,
oh wait, that first interception that was on Mike Evans,
that was not on Tom Brady. It's not a small thing.
Arians reminds me a little bit of Brett Farve, talented
gun slinger details. Yeah, kind of a go of a
(07:41):
gut guy. I like Arians. I liked Farve, but you're
dealing with Tom Brady, the greatest at his position ever.
And Brady is the opposite of Farv. He is the
opposite of Arians. He is absurdly buttoned up, absurdly detailed,
ridiculously committed, beyond obsessed. I'd be careful about questioning the
(08:08):
determination thing. This was always my concern in Tampa that
you had this almost Mit Harvard level commitment and attention
to detail. You just work, you sleep at the facility,
and in Tampa, that's not what they are. It's loose,
(08:29):
it's fun, it's tequila at five thirty. I'm not even
talking directly to Arians. It's just the organization I used
to cover it. It's not aspirational, it's not buttoned up. Hey,
there's always tomorrow. We lost a playoff game. Oh wait,
they don't get to the playoffs. Longest NFC drought in
the playoffs, longer than Detroit. Jimmy Johnson said this yesterday.
(08:53):
The greater the quarterback, the more careful you have to
be with the public criticism. Anytime you all out one
of your players publicly, especially a quarterback, with their egos,
you're gonna call some tension there. And I think it's
tension that you don't really need. But you know, sometimes
all of us, you know, the reporters asking questions, you know,
(09:16):
right off the cuff, you want to give them the
right answer. A lot of times you shouldn't give them
the right answer. Belichick's got it best, you know, owned
a Cincinnati you know, and so yeah, I don't think
it's good to publicly criticize your quarterback. Listen. Arians basically
came out and said, listen, they didn't show us anything
(09:37):
we didn't expect. Translation, I got it right, he didn't.
My game plan was great, he wasn't. It's gotta be careful, listen.
The other thing is people who are driven and goal
oriented and tough on themselves. Tom knows his mistakes. The
people you have to get after are the ones like
Baker Mayfield who play average football and think they're great
(09:59):
and have no human Joe Burrow came out this weekend
played darn well. He's like, I was bad. I don't
have to worry about Joe Burrow. I don't have to
worry about Brady. I don't have to worry about Russell Wilson.
I don't have to worry about Lamar Jackson. Those guys
are great and there there be plus efforts. They're like,
I was lousy. You got worry about the people who
(10:21):
play average and think they're great. Brady knows he wasn't ideal.
Brady knows of his mistakes. He's buttoned up Tampa historically not.
I'd just be careful what I say here. It's a
long season coming up next Denver, Tennessee. I know it
was shanking kicks. It was a mass late into the night,
(10:44):
but patience is really important. And that game doesn't mean much,
but the decisions this morning and after it could make
and change an organization, and we'll talk about that coming up.
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
(11:06):
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Geico fifteen percent extra
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If you sign up by October seventh, that's about three
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Geico's already outstanding rates. Top of next hour, our first
in season Herd hierarchy. It is great to have you
(11:28):
in today. Joy, I just noticed matches our set. That's amazing.
This is my this is my my Pittsburgh black and yellow.
Oh you do that, You're very good, but it does
much so listen, Tennessee beats Denver and all of us
sportscaster today could just crush Vic Fangio who didn't use
his timeouts as Tennessee was driving down the field. You know,
(11:51):
eighty yards, twelve plays. You're thinking of yourself, call some timeouts,
call some timeouts. It's always it's kind of you know,
Belichick sometimes lets other teams. Rember the Super Bowl where
Belichick didn't call a timeout and he let the Seahawks
and Pete Carroll freak out. Like there's a lot of
different ways to do this. Some coaches are like, no,
this is hard. Ryan Tannehill's average, I'm a good defensive coordinator.
(12:12):
I'm not going to call timeouts. I'm going to see
if you can figure out how to get down the field.
I could, I could beat up on Vic Fangio. A
lot of coaches see the world differently. Belichick has been
one of these guys historically, is if your quarterback's not great,
I'm not going to use my timeouts. You see, if
you can go down the field seventy yards whatever, I'm
not going to bang on Vic Fangio. I would have
(12:33):
called timeouts. But there's a lot of different ways in
the NFL at the end of games to use your timeouts.
I don't think you should be saving them. I'll say that,
But that game's not about those timeouts. This is about
Drew Locke. We are seeing all these great young quarterbacks
in the league. We saw another one, Joe Burrow looks
potentially very good. That's what this league's all about. Right now.
(12:57):
Do you have kingmaker? Do you have a playmaker? Do
you had? It looks like Kyler Murray's that guy. We
got Patrick Mahomes, that guy. Lamar's that guy. Russell's that guy.
Aaron Rodgers still that guy. That's what this league is about.
And Drew Rock that game's not about losing last night.
It's about being patient because Denver's got a really good
(13:17):
young tight end and two good running backs and it
looks like a potential star at wide receiver. Don't go
crazy on last night. Some teams are looking to win
the Super Bowl this year. You know who they are.
The Ravens, the Chief Seattle, Green Bay, San Francisco, the Saints.
This team's not a super Bowl team. That is not
their goal. Their goal is to find a franchise quarterback.
(13:39):
And since John Elway retired years and years and years
and years and decades ago, they can't find one. They
had to rent one in Peyton Manning. He was old
and had four next surgeries by the time he got
to Denver. Okay, Denver has a new head. Don't don't
go crazy on this. They got a new offensive coordinator,
their number one receiver was out, their number two receiver
is a rookie. Their tight end a second year tight end.
(14:01):
Drew Locke's got six starts. Since Tennessee's been around a
while they're a good nine and seven team. They're a
playoff team. Don't get into the minutia with Vic Fangio.
I would have called the timeouts, but last night is
about more than that. A lot of teams seven, eight, nine, ten,
they think they can win the Super Bowl. Denver does,
(14:23):
but they can't. That's not where they're at. They're not
in that space. This is a really good franchise. They
can't get the quarterback right. I think they have a
chance if they're patient now. Is Vic Fangio the right
guy with Drew Locke, I don't know. You don't have
to have an offensive coach. I mean, is John Harbone
(14:43):
offensive coach? He's been great for Lamar Jackson. Is Sean
McDermott in Buffalo an offensive coach? Nope, he's been great
for Josh Allen, Pete Carroll's a defensive coach. Russell Wilson's
got two super Bowl trips in one title. You don't
have to be an offensive coach. It would be great
if every but he had Kyle Shanahan. But Jimmy Garoppolo
has Kyle Shanahan, and sometimes you're not sure if they
(15:05):
get along. John Gruden's an offensive guy, and he's brutally
harsh on Derek Carr. Sometimes the offensive coach is too demanding,
is a perfectionist and has his own system and worldview,
and it doesn't work with the quarterback. I don't know
if Vic Fangio is the guys. I would have used
timeouts last night, but the fascinating team isn't the team
that won last night. Tennessee's got Ryan Tannehill in the
(15:27):
AFC ceiling low. Next issue, they'll go nine and seven
because they always do. Frabel's a very good coach. They
can run the ball, They're tough. You know that they'll
be fine. The story's denver. Can they find the next elway?
Now this is an elway. You don't need an elway
to win a Super Bowl. You got to be patient.
As far as the timeouts, Vic Fangio is he the future?
(15:48):
I don't know, a little old out of touch sometimes,
but here's his explanation. Well, it was too fold there. One,
they're field old kicker had obviously been having his problems,
so I want to extend the drive to where they
could get closer. Number one and number two, you know
we would have used the time out, but we got
(16:08):
the running back out of bounds. We would have used
the second time out, but they threw an incompletion, you know,
which would have given us one left when we got
the ball back. So that was part of the thinking.
They're not going to crush him for that. I would
have used him. I've seen coaches who I respect who
have Super Bowls not use him, and he reads a
great coach. His time management has always been the one
(16:31):
thing he gets knocked for, so you know, I would
have used him. But I think the fascinating thing is
sometimes the team that wins is not the story. Drew
Locke with Fant and Melvin Gordon and Judy and I'm
telling you, Denver skilled people are young and they may
not be on your fantasy team. They got a lot
(16:51):
of talent. They have drafted John Elway. You're gonna have
your critics of him, but man, they are ready. If
Drew Locke is the guy, watch out because they are
stacked offensively at the skill positions. Joy with the news, No, no,
this is the herd Line news. Well, the other big
story last nights, as Vic just mentioned, the kicker Stephen
(17:15):
Gustouski had a night shame house key for his Titans
debut last night. He missed three field goals and an
extra point, leaving ten points on the board, but with
seventeen seconds remaining, he redeemed himself sort of and hit
the game winning field goal. He get his team the
sixteen fourteen win over the Broncos. What have you done
(17:38):
for me lately? That's what this league is. I guess
we're not gonna I don't know. Do you forget that
he can he missed that much. That's a pretty substantial
most classic Belichick cuts a Hall of Fame kicker and
he suddenly can't kick. Belichick always just gets rid of
a guy. Just everybody else, everybody paid overpaid for, you know,
like Malcolm Butler and Dion Lewis and he just building.
(18:00):
Do you know what the league, everyone around the league
just keeps falling for it every single time. Every time
I bolicheck must love that. Well, look it had fourteen
seasons in New England's three Super Bowl rings, four a
Pro Bowl. He was a great kicker. He's a hall
of famer. He left the patience the whole time leading scorer. Yeah,
he is a Hall of famer. It's just rough that
that was. That was something. It was like, it was
(18:22):
painful to watch. You know. It's funny about that is
that nobody really ages as well in the NFL. The
difference is like a punter he shanks a couple and
he just disappears into the ether. Right when a kicker
age is poorly, it's like, you know, the camera's right
on him. It usually is crucial. Nobody has any sympathy
(18:43):
for kickers because you're you're not doing anything during uh
OTA's and training and hang out with other kickers. Yeah,
if you're in the shade and yeah, you just gotta
come in, But then all the pressures on you, right,
like we don't see her here from you until you
got to save the game. We've never done a kicker
segment until today, and that tells you. We don't talk
(19:03):
about We never talk about the kid in Baltimore has
been it's one of the great kickers in the history. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we never talk about him. We only talk about We
only talk offensive linemen and kickers. When you screw up
is the only time we talk about. And Jane the game.
He'd never missed three field goals in a game. He
was from forty two forty seven and had a forty
four yard attempt blocked, and he has now missed an
extra point attempt in four consecutive games. So it's over.
(19:27):
It went downhill quickly. So Odell Beckham didn't shine the
way a star receiver should on Sunday. Three receptions twenty
two yards against the Ravens, albeit a pretty rough game
for the Browns all around. He did have a game
high ten targets, though, and Kevin Stepanski is hoping Baker
can get the ball to their star receiver even more
going forward. I think we got a pretty good feel
(19:48):
for Odell and his skill set. I mean, he's a
talent of football player, so it's our job to put
him in position to make plays. We're mindful of all
of our players in terms of how they're touching it.
There were opportunities early where the coverage took it away
or somebody else was open, those type of things. But
he's a good football player, so I don't think it's
(20:09):
newsworthy that he's a focal point of our office. Let's
for the record, Thursday Night football. Yeah, it's gonna be
very good this week Bengals, Browns Baker against Burrow. I'll
tell you this is We said this yesterday. This is
where the NFL is different than every sport in America.
You and I would never watch bad anything college football, hockey,
(20:31):
bat Bengals, Browns could end up not being good. I
cannot wait. I'm throwing a house party Thursday. I cannot
wait for Baker versus Burrow and the Dogs. Yeah, I mean,
I'm not sure they'll be as jazzed for Burrow and
Baker if they were for Brady and Breeze. Listen, everyone
(20:52):
was jazz for Brady and Brees's best best rating since
the Super Bowl. But it's a it's a game, it's
a real game. This is something and could go very badly.
The Bengals have nothing to lose if they lose, it's
expected what the Browns lose after Pittsburgh looked pretty good
last night. Now and they got stomped by the Ravens.
Oh boy, you know this, It sounds overly dramatic. This
(21:17):
game for Cleveland on Thursday is massive. Any dramatic. You
cannot go oh and two and if the Steelers and
the Ravens when you're two and oh, do I sound
ridiculous saying that they both they You just lost a
division game. You have a division appendent on Thursday, the
Steelers just won. Oh my god. Yeah, absolutely, this is
(21:37):
a massive game for must for graphics Thursday. I will say, though, man, like,
I'm not ready to give up on Odell. Well, so
can we just we just get them out of cle Like,
I know Cleveland fans don't want to hear that, but
it doesn't fit perfectly. It's not working. And I understand
(22:00):
that Odell was hurt last year the most of the year,
but like, and I don't want to overreact a week one.
You only have a couple of games to prove me
wrong with that statement like this, you got to get
him going. This is a huge piece of year offense,
and whether he necessarily is or not, his name alone
demands that he does that. He has to be a
big part of your offense. Otherwise he's got to be
(22:20):
a trade piece. I just think he's a star, and
I just feel like he is. He's lost in Cleveland.
He's done an amazing job of buying into everything to
Cleveland's doing. So I don't think that it's his fault,
and I don't necessarily think it's Baker's fault. I just
think it's not working. Yeah, some relationships don't work. It's okay. Finally,
following their disappointing exit in the playoffs, Fox ownership is
showing us they're committed to building a championship team. Jannas
(22:43):
apparently met with the owner Mark Lazarie for three hours
last week to discuss the future of the team, and
Lazie assured him that they are willing to spend into
the luxury tax in the off season in order to
build a stronger supporting cast. Three hours is a long meeting.
That is a long meeting. For that long meeting, I mean,
I love my wife, but if we're not drinking wine,
I haven't sat and talked to her for three hours.
(23:05):
Like that's intense. And he also stopped following some of
the Bucks on Yeah, he followed the team and his
teammates on Twitter and Instagram. After they were eliminated in
the postseason, they stop. He stopped following them. Yeah, okay,
what does that mean? Well, what does that mean? I
don't know. So it's it's something like it can't be nothing.
You cannot tell me. I'm gonna I'm gonna no longer
(23:26):
follow any of my co workers. And there's not some
unless you started that way, like unless you're Beyonce and
you only follow one person, or you don't you only
follow Baker. I used to only follow Okay, so so
you've expanded now. Yeah. So unless you that's just what
you do and you don't follow anybody, that's fine. But
you can't have followed them and then unfollowed them and
(23:49):
then say that it's nothing thank you. But that does
doesn't work. I mean even if you don't, because let's
say you like, oh, like I don't use social media anymore,
then just don't look at it. You don't need to
unfollow it. You know, it sends a message thank you,
So don't. I don't know that I buy into this.
Like I'm not saying that they're not going to try
to spend more money. But if Jannis does decide to
stay in Milwaukee, and I know that there is a
(24:09):
certain section of NBA fandom and obviously Milwaukee fans that
hope that he does that, yeah, I am not one
of them. The East is not going to look like
this next year. I keep telling you this. Heaven Durant
is coming back. He's going to be in Brooklyn. You
better bring something. It's not going to look the same.
Heat are going to get better, Boston is going to
get better. Toronto can make moves at any time, as
(24:30):
we know they've already done it. So if you're going
to spend I suggest you be aggressive. Joy with the news.
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
third line. And I will say this, I've never had
a three hour meeting in my life that lasted that
long where I didn't yell at somebody. I've had a
million meetings. It's too long. Three hours. It's too long,
three hours, we had a disagreement, or we've been out
(24:52):
of here in ninety minutes. Three. I do feel like
we meet for three hours every day. Yeah. Two, and
it's mostly because, yeah, we gave breaks though we don't
have to talk. It's something went on in that meeting
that wasn't ideal. Okay, Okay, So Vander esh Good linebacker
for the Cowboys, surgery, collar bone out now for probably
six to eight weeks. Jar Win the tight end out
(25:15):
for the season. Okay. This is what happened to the
La Rams. When you got seven or eight massive contracts,
you have less depth and one or two injuries and
the season goes downhill. Last year, the Rams were gonna
be good, right, they just got to the Super Bowl. Oh,
(25:35):
then they have a center, and then then they lose
a guy on free agency, and then they have a
couple injuries and all of a sudden, you're like, Rams
can't protect golf and the Todd Gurley. Okay, when you
have a top heavy roster, you're gonna have to steal
from somewhere else. You can't pay everybody and be deep.
And the Steelers and the Patriots have always been very
(25:57):
good at this. The Packers too that they don't pay
a lot of people, and we complain they don't pay
enough people. But they've got a little more depth, and
they can lose one player and be okay. In Green Band,
they can lose. Last year the Steelers lost a quarterback
and then a second and they were still eight and eight.
And New England loses people and it's next man up.
The problem is who's your man? And so the Rams
(26:19):
are top heavy. They paid Girly too much too early.
They paid Brandon Cooks too much. They Jalen Ramsey. I
like him, but they're paying him about thirty percent more
than the market bears. And the Rams now they've they've
been healthy so far, but we saw it last year.
Philadelphia Eagles. This weekend they pay WinCE a Ton, Fletcher
talks Fletcher Cox, a Ton, Lane, Johnson a Ton, Brandon
(26:42):
Brooks a Ton, Alshan, Jeffrey a Ton oh Lane's hurt,
their disintegrate against Washington. This is what happens in this league.
That's why I always say I'm not against players getting
paid pay Infrequently, you pay a handful of stars big money,
and then you don't, and then you make tough decisions.
(27:03):
By the way, Kansas City is becoming this a little bit.
Chris Jones a lot, Mahomes, I get it a lot,
and then Sammy Watkins a lot. You better restructure that,
and Travis Kelsey a lot, and all of a sudden,
you look up one day and you're like, you're a
Honey Badger injury away or a Mitchell Schwartz injury away
(27:23):
from You can't protect Mahomes. You're playing from behind. He's
throwing too much. So this is my knock on Dallas. Dallas,
the Rams and the Eagles have a lot of big
paychecks and a lot of stars, and it's great when
they're healthy. But Dallas has now one more injury away,
Tyron Smith left tackle. He's an older he's great, but
(27:46):
he's not built to play sixteen games anymore. So now
they've lost Gerald McCoy, defensive tackle out for the year,
tight end out for the year, center gone, retired, Tyron Smith,
keep your fingers crossed. Vander esh out for two months.
They are a Tyron Smith injury at left tackle from
(28:06):
being in some real chaos in Dallas. So this is
this is everybody's like, just paid Dak. It's like, this
is why the franchise tag was built. Like, you better
get that quarterback contract right, You better get it right. Um.
And as much as I like Kansas City, you know
Chris Jones goes down. Now, you don't have the pass rush.
Now Patrick Mahomes is in shootouts. So you know, I'm
(28:30):
not anti paying players. I'm not. I am for paying
your hit makers and your stars. But this is this
is fairly predictable with Dallas. They're one more injury away
from oh oh oh, the season's unraveling. Um, all right,
Doug Gottlieb is around the corner, top of the hour.
The herd hierarchy. I put so much into this and
(28:52):
I'm so into it. I don't know why the top
ten teams in the league is so interesting to me,
but it is. And you hate me every Tuesday, and
I love doing it. And we have that in Doug
Gottlieb's coming up next a lot of different topics. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and
noon Easter nine a Empacific heard Hierarchy top of next Hour.
It is so nice. So we got a great Sunday
(29:16):
and then we get Monday night football. Tonight we have
the Clippers game against Denver Game seven. By the way,
this just in. This just leaked Brett McMurphy, a reporter.
The Big Ten is set to announce that they're going
to resume play. We talked about this last week. I
heard this last Wednesday. I was told last Wednesday by
a guy up the chain they were gonna play mid October.
(29:38):
It's been finalized October seventeenth. The Big Ten will play.
The reason the story got out Nebraska's athletic director on
a hot mic. Didn't know he was on the mic.
Let it slip. Nebraska President. My bad, sorry, the ad
was fine. It's the goofy president in the bow tie
that screwed up. So the president for Nebraska on a
hot mic boom and got in trouble. But this is
(29:59):
what we talked about. Last Wednesday. I was hearing from
two sources up the food chain of the Big Ten
they were going to resume play. Pack twelve is off,
sleeping whatevs. Not a shock, but the Big Ten's coming back.
I feel good for Ohio State. I'm happy for Ohio State.
Everybody in their state's playing except the Buckeyes. I totally
get the frustration. I'm very happy for Ohio State. They're
(30:20):
a national championship team. They deserve to play, they want
to play. Kids do coaches? Do parents do? All right,
let's bring in Doug Gottlie, brought to you by Mercedes.
Ben's the best or nothing. So my takeaway on the
Steelers last night was, yeah, I know they beat the Giants.
They always beat the crappy teams. But did you see
a team that's got next level potential? That's the question
(30:40):
for me always with Pittsburgh. Look, we sigh, relatively healthy
Ben Roethlisberger. I think that was the big question, right.
I mean, it's a lot like the Cam Newton thing.
Cam Newton was healthy. We still don't know if he
can throw the football downfield or take a beating the
rest of the season. But look, Ben, obviously he looked
(31:00):
far healthier than he had last year when he had
that big, grizzly beard and looked about fifty pounds overweight.
So look, they did what they were supposed to do.
I was disappointed in Joe Judge hunting on the Steelers
forty yard lines or first year you'd get a pass
if you didn't get it. He was super, super conservative.
But I have no sense for the top of the
(31:21):
food chain, the Ravens and the Chiefs, what they kan
City Chiefs will look like. I just know that Ben
Roethlisberger for now appears to be healthy, and if he's healthy,
combined with a talented defense, they should have a shot.
By the way, Drew Locke, I'm not sure what he is.
I think they've surrounded him with some really compelling parts.
What was your what's your grade? What's your takeaway on
(31:41):
what you see from the young kid? Well, look, I
do think he's talented, he is athletic, and they're using
him the right way, rolling him out. Remember they didn't
have Courtland Sutton. He didn't play last night, right, And
and you know, Melvin Gordon suddenly has become a big fumbler,
at least against the Tennessee Titans, going back to his
Charger days. They've given him why happens? The line is
better than it's been. But we also have to remember
(32:04):
that the score was not really indicative of the game. Okay, yes,
Jerry Judy big drop which changed the game. Yes, they
didn't have Courtland Suddon, but if Gaskowski can make any
of those field goals, it's not close late, right, it
changed the complete tenor of the game. That here a
normally a very good to great kicker can't make a
(32:25):
forty yard field goal, which in the NFL is like
an eighty five shot, so especially in Denver. So look,
do I like him? Yes? Do I think they had
the quarterback of the present? Yes? Is either long term solution?
It feels that way. But again, let's kind of take
a breath and realize that the Titans should have won
by you know, six to nine points, that they could
(32:47):
simply make a field goal or next point. Listen, we
all know when you're an athlete, you get criticized. We
get it. It's part of it. But it is interesting
when you're the greatest player ever and a very loose
operator is telling you, I think you'll be more determined
next week. Like Brady's got issues, determination has never been
one of them. I'm on the Jimmy Johnson's side. I'm
(33:09):
not a huge fan of going after Brady. Arians backtracked
a little, and I like Bruce Arians, but Doug I
always feel he's a little loose. I think you'd take
a deep breath. I didn't love the criticism of Brady publicly,
your thoughts well publicly that the big part is publicly right,
all that stuff he said behind closed doors, I don't
(33:29):
think Brady has a problem with I'm not sure Brady
actually has a problem with it publicly. It's just the
idea of this was one of the reasons that we
were told Giselle was ticked at Bill Belichick. Was he
he treated him just like he was anybody else, not
like a superstar quarterback. Course, she's a supermodel. She's used
to being treated like somebody else, So how Brady reacts,
(33:49):
and I don't think anybody thinks that Brady played well,
especially Brady. The part that bothered me was the arrogant.
There's nothing that they did that we didn't prepare for. Yeah,
like that's the It's not me, it's you when you're
supposed to do this. Sean mcfab You ever seen a
Sean McVay press conference. Yeah, everyone looks exactly the same.
The players are great. If something went wrong, it's on me.
(34:11):
We got to figure it out. And then I'm sure
behind closed doors it's the exact opposite. Right, we told
you this was coming. It was odd. But if you
ask people in Tampa, this is kind of how he
rolls right, calls out his left tackle, calls out his quarterback,
doesn't really care. I'm intrigued to see how this marriage,
this second marriage for Brady goes, because they do run
a loose ship. They do commit penalties that they didn't
(34:33):
commit in New England. They do. You know, you do
have a coach who calls you out in a public
setting like a like a press conference. It is kind
of lucy goosey, and it isn't the same culture he's
used to. And there's a lot of reasons that only
thirty three percent of the free agents hit Like you
ask NFL people to say, one third of three agents
(34:53):
hit and you overpay for free agents. It'll be interesting
to see if this is a hit or if this
is a miss. He is forty three, he looked forty three.
He missed on some throws that he shouldn't miss. And
he's playing in the perfect conditions, the perfect conditions of
a dome. What happens when those conditions change, and what
happens when now, all of a sudden, he gets criticism
when he doesn't have the equity like Bill Belichick can
(35:16):
criticize you because Bill Belichick has six rings. Bill Belichick
has done it with you can do it without you.
He can win ten games with Matt Castle. So I'll
be really interested to see how this marriage proceeds. All right,
you're a basketball guy too. I want to I want
to get to game seventh to night Clippers and Denver.
So you know, one of the things I'll talk about
later is takeout Dynasties. You know, take out MJ, takeout
(35:40):
you know, take out Golden State Durant. A lot of
series go deep. Nine of the last twelve NBA champs
have gone seven games somewhere in the playoffs. Are we
just overreacting and realizing? Nobody ever said the Clippers were great.
We think they're the best team in a year of
a bunch of good teams, and that Game seven doesn't.
(36:00):
But there's no big conclusion that they've been a disappointment.
Well there's there's. Look, there's a lot to what makes
this different. Okay, it's not that they forced a game seven, right,
It's not like like, look, if you had to go
to Denver, you're playing in the altitude and they hit
every three, but you're up what sixteen and nineteen and
back to back games, And it wasn't just they're up
nineteen in game six because the rest of the world
(36:22):
was watching the NFL or maybe the US Open in tennis.
Like they went from up nineteen to getting blown out
by I think the final score was fourteen. They got
boat raced in the second half. There's something wrong there,
and I don't know whether it's you know, they got
bubble fever where you got you know, lou Williams wants
to get out and get on the town. Paul George
has said it's it's hurt his mental health. I don't
(36:44):
think they have a point guard. I think it's really
hard to have a leader who's relatively Mute Kawhi Leonard
and you and you, you have no culture of winning there.
The Clippers have literally never been past the second round.
So you're telling people about something that that there's ever
been accomplished with that name across the front of your chest,
which I do think is something. Yeah. But the juxtaposition
(37:05):
of the Lakers who smell blood with the Houston Rockets
and stomped them out and said you have no shot, Yeah,
through the Clippers who have allowed the Nuggets to hang around. Yeah.
By the way, this sounds ridiculous, but Brown's Bengals feel
so important for Cleveland on Thursday night. You got a
minute left, Like we're not crazy, like that feels like
(37:25):
a huge game for Baker Mayfield in Cleveland, right, correct, correct, Look,
the Bengals are a little bit better than you think.
Remember they get Joe Mixon who was injured some last
year back. AJ Green is back. The defense has been rebuilt.
But Cleveland personnel wise, like if you're doing a pickup game,
out of the twenty two guys in the field, generally
you're going to take about eighteen Cleveland Browns, maybe even nineteen.
(37:48):
And Baker, Baker looks in the mirror and thinks he's
Russell Wilson and he's got to be Drew Brees and
he's not. This is the type of game you lose
on a Thursday night and all of a sudden it
becomes a dumpster fire because Odell is not happy, the
defense isn't competing well, and Baker Mayfield gets the blame. Remember,
the coach is the first to go. That's gone. Then
the gm next thing to go is the players, specifically
(38:10):
the quarterback. Thursday night is massive in Ohio. Good stuff,
Doug gott Lab Douger Foxber Sports Radio after our show.
Good talking to you, Bud. Great to catch up, nice Beard,
Thank you. Um it really is. Actually, you know that's
the great thing about shortened season. You and I have
talked about this. I think the NBA should be about
sixty eight games long. Why every game matters. Like when
(38:31):
when I was a kid, Uh, you know, van Halen
was big. That was that was a rock band. Van
Halen came to Seattle once. That's it. You got him
like every every third year Eddie van Halen and you
know David Lee Roth came into town. We had to go.
If it's if van Halen showed up four times of
summer and did some lallapalooza thing, and they're scarcity equals
(38:54):
intensity equals urgency. You go down, you're O and two.
If you're Cleveland. The Ravens look like the best team
ever created. Pittsburgh schedule, go look at Pittsburgh schedule this morning.
It is a lot of fluff. It is a lot
of home games from against chaotic teams. They get the
AFC East this year. You go oh and two and
now Burrow beat you. We got a major problem in
(39:18):
the Baker Mayfield cap. Now, I do think to Doug's point,
this is one of these if you're on a football
field and could just you know, you're picking the teams
as about three guys from Cincinnati, I'd take I'd take
the rest of the Brown's roster booth. It's it's a
big for Cleveland. It sounds ridiculous. It is a must
win game for the Browns. Comes to reaching your health goals,
it's about changing habits, changing your mind. Go to noom
(39:41):
dot com slash herd n oo and the tools you
need to change your habits to have lasting change in
your life. Hurt hierarchy. Next hour two the herd
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. You're listening to Fox
Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a packed Tuesday,
(00:26):
live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd. Wherever you
may be and however you may be listening. We're on
Fox Sports Radio and right here on f S one
one hour from now, our first in season heard hierarchy
one through ten ten best teams in the NFL. I
(00:47):
think you know who I have number one. I don't
think you know who I have three through ten, and
Joy Taylor is joining me. Two games last night games.
Steelers back your Pittsburgh Girl, Steelers back nice win. I
liked it. I liked it from Ben he looked he
looked like Ben Roethlisberger. He did which Shaggy I can
(01:10):
go a lot different ways. All right, let me start
with this. We know what the Steelers are. The last
decade they've been the Mike Tyson of the NFL man,
they beat up on bad teams, they roll average teams.
Mike Tyson did that. If you were average past your prime,
a B fighter man, you look at Tyson, You're like
(01:32):
he'd destroyed the greatest fighters of all time. But when
you put Lennox Lewis in the ring with him, he
was outclassed. When you put Evander Holyfield two times in
the ring with him, a great technical fighter, a guy
with a chin, Mike Tyson looked lost. That's what the
Steelers are. We knew the Steelers. We're gonna beat a
(01:52):
new head coach. Do you understand the last decade the
Pittsburgh Steelers against the Browns and Bengals bad organizations are
thirty three, six and one. But what are they against
the Ravens and the Patriots in the last decade ten
and eighteen? And those are the teams you gotta beat
to get to the land where the Steelers feel is
(02:17):
theirs super bowls. That's that's what Pittsburgh is about. This
is not the New York Mets. This is not the Jags. Know,
this is not you know, the Milwaukee Bucks. These are
the Pittsburg Steelers. This is you know, looking for the
fifth ring, you know, one for the thumb. This is
this is the Pittsburgh Steelers, right even last year they
were eight and two on their third string quarterback, a
(02:38):
guy named Duck. And when you're the Steelers and you
have great ownership and a great GM and a Hall
of Fame quarterback, and they always have great weapon and
they alwas have great wide receivers and a good offensive
line and linebackers that can run over the field. But
you have continuity, you're gonna beat half the teams on
your schedule just because you're not a dumpster fire, and
(02:59):
they never are. Last night was classic Pittsburgh. WHOA. I
think they're a super Bowl team. They dominated, Yeah, because
they're buttoned up in terms of Organizationally, they draft well,
they develop players, they do a great job. But then
(03:20):
they run into those elite teams and those elite quarterbacks,
and you do get in twenty twenty. The AFC runs
through Andy Reid Hall of Famer, Patrick Mahomes gonna be
a Hall of Famer, Lamar Jackson world class. John Harbaugh
probably gets into the Hall of Fame. The Giants are
not what you gotta get through the New York Giants.
(03:40):
New head coach, new coordinator, new system, second year quarterback
in Daniel Jones. Pittsburgh's been beaten up on that for
the last decade. That's not the issue. The Giants are
a lot closer to the Browns and the Bengals than
they are to the Ravens and the Chiefs. Today, the
Giants are a mess. I know what I get from
Pittsburgh when they faced teams like that. I mean again,
(04:03):
just having their front office and their ownership in Big
Ben and continuity, which they almost always have. That's gonna
a solid head coach and a solid quarterback. You know,
you're gonna win a bunch of games in the NFL
just because you've got your you know what together. But
but the Steelers nine and seven and out in the
first round, ten and six, second in the division, wild
(04:24):
car out in the first round, That's not what the
Steelers are about. Their standards are much much higher. Their
standards are the Ravens standards, and you know, the Packers
standards and the Patriot standards. That's their standards here. And
last night, you know it. Last night my two takeaways
(04:45):
The New York Giants stink and number two, it's good
to have been big Ben back. It's cold to have
Big Ben back. I'm happy to see Big Ben. Fan
of Duck Hodges, but good to have Big Ben back.
And although receivers and the Steelers and the winning it's
Monday night. But Mike Tomlin, he knows the truth about
(05:07):
this season, and he knows the truth about last night.
I thought they showed them metal um. I thought that
they were physically tough, mentally tough. But we we gotta
we gotta do some things better. And you know, we
knew we weren't going to be perfect tonight. We talked
about that openly last night in preparation for this opportunity.
(05:27):
But but there's more meat on the bone, and I appreciate,
appreciate the efforts. We just got to search for a
higher sealing in terms of quality of play. At least
the coach knows. That's the good news. He knows what
he saw. He knows what they have to be to
get back to a Steeler level, not beating a lousy
Giants team, Browns and Bengals and all that NFL nonsense. Okay,
(05:51):
so uh, nobody likes criticism. Let's be honest about it.
I don't like it. You don't like it, even constructive
criticism from people we respect. We don't sleep well that night.
Tom Brady got ripped by his coach. The word was
a little loose for my taste, Bruce Arians criticizing Tom Brady.
(06:13):
The wording at the end of this is not real precise.
Here we go, Yeah, I mean he looked like Tom
Brady in practice all the time, so it's kind of
unusual to see that in the ballgame because they didn't
do the things that we didn't get ready for. Everything
they did, we were we thought we were ready for.
He knew he didn't play very well, and it's not
(06:33):
what he expects from himself, nor do we expect. So
I want to anticipate him to have a little more
grit and a little more determination this week. Excuse me,
Tom Brady wasn't determined enough. I don't know if your
television set's been working for twenty years. Tom's got issues.
He's not the greatest athlete. But the determination thing, I'm
(06:58):
gonna go with. Tom's good on that secret practices helicopters
hovering at high schools in Tampa. You gotta be careful here.
Bruce Arians is loose his lips are loose. His teams
are loose. Last year led the NFL and penalties the
first week nine penalties punt block. That's Tampa. That's Bruce Arians.
(07:20):
By the way, Arians admitted after looking at the film,
oh wait, that first interception that was on Mike Evans,
that was not on Tom Brady. It's not a small thing.
Arians reminds me a little bit of Brett Farve, talented
gun slinger details. Yeah, kind of a go of a
(07:41):
gut guy. I like Arians. I liked Farve, but you're
dealing with Tom Brady, the greatest at his position ever.
And Brady is the opposite of Farv. He is the
opposite of Arians. He is absurdly buttoned up, absurdly detailed,
ridiculously committed, beyond obsessed. I'd be careful about questioning the
(08:08):
determination thing. This was always my concern in Tampa that
you had this almost Mit Harvard level commitment and attention
to detail. You just work, you sleep at the facility,
and in Tampa, that's not what they are. It's loose,
(08:29):
it's fun, it's tequila at five thirty. I'm not even
talking directly to Arians. It's just the organization I used
to cover it. It's not aspirational, it's not buttoned up. Hey,
there's always tomorrow. We lost a playoff game. Oh wait,
they don't get to the playoffs. Longest NFC drought in
the playoffs, longer than Detroit. Jimmy Johnson said this yesterday.
(08:53):
The greater the quarterback, the more careful you have to
be with the public criticism. Anytime you all out one
of your players publicly, especially a quarterback, with their egos,
you're gonna call some tension there. And I think it's
tension that you don't really need. But you know, sometimes
all of us, you know, the reporters asking questions, you know,
(09:16):
right off the cuff, you want to give them the
right answer. A lot of times you shouldn't give them
the right answer. Belichick's got it best, you know, owned
a Cincinnati you know, and so yeah, I don't think
it's good to publicly criticize your quarterback. Listen. Arians basically
came out and said, listen, they didn't show us anything
(09:37):
we didn't expect. Translation, I got it right, he didn't.
My game plan was great, he wasn't. It's gotta be careful, listen.
The other thing is people who are driven and goal
oriented and tough on themselves. Tom knows his mistakes. The
people you have to get after are the ones like
Baker Mayfield who play average football and think they're great
(09:59):
and have no human Joe Burrow came out this weekend
played darn well. He's like, I was bad. I don't
have to worry about Joe Burrow. I don't have to
worry about Brady. I don't have to worry about Russell Wilson.
I don't have to worry about Lamar Jackson. Those guys
are great and there there be plus efforts. They're like,
I was lousy. You got worry about the people who
(10:21):
play average and think they're great. Brady knows he wasn't ideal.
Brady knows of his mistakes. He's buttoned up Tampa historically not.
I'd just be careful what I say here. It's a
long season coming up next Denver, Tennessee. I know it
was shanking kicks. It was a mass late into the night,
(10:44):
but patience is really important. And that game doesn't mean much,
but the decisions this morning and after it could make
and change an organization, and we'll talk about that coming up.
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
(11:06):
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Geico fifteen percent extra
credit car motorcycle RV policies right now through October seventh.
If you sign up by October seventh, that's about three
weeks away, but get on it. You'll get fifteen percent off.
Geico's already outstanding rates. Top of next hour, our first
in season Herd hierarchy. It is great to have you
(11:28):
in today. Joy, I just noticed matches our set. That's amazing.
This is my this is my my Pittsburgh black and yellow.
Oh you do that, You're very good, but it does
much so listen, Tennessee beats Denver and all of us
sportscaster today could just crush Vic Fangio who didn't use
his timeouts as Tennessee was driving down the field. You know,
(11:51):
eighty yards, twelve plays. You're thinking of yourself, call some timeouts,
call some timeouts. It's always it's kind of you know,
Belichick sometimes lets other teams. Rember the Super Bowl where
Belichick didn't call a timeout and he let the Seahawks
and Pete Carroll freak out. Like there's a lot of
different ways to do this. Some coaches are like, no,
this is hard. Ryan Tannehill's average, I'm a good defensive coordinator.
(12:12):
I'm not going to call timeouts. I'm going to see
if you can figure out how to get down the field.
I could, I could beat up on Vic Fangio. A
lot of coaches see the world differently. Belichick has been
one of these guys historically, is if your quarterback's not great,
I'm not going to use my timeouts. You see, if
you can go down the field seventy yards whatever, I'm
not going to bang on Vic Fangio. I would have
(12:33):
called timeouts. But there's a lot of different ways in
the NFL at the end of games to use your timeouts.
I don't think you should be saving them. I'll say that,
But that game's not about those timeouts. This is about
Drew Locke. We are seeing all these great young quarterbacks
in the league. We saw another one, Joe Burrow looks
potentially very good. That's what this league's all about. Right now.
(12:57):
Do you have kingmaker? Do you have a playmaker? Do
you had? It looks like Kyler Murray's that guy. We
got Patrick Mahomes, that guy. Lamar's that guy. Russell's that guy.
Aaron Rodgers still that guy. That's what this league is about.
And Drew Rock that game's not about losing last night.
It's about being patient because Denver's got a really good
(13:17):
young tight end and two good running backs and it
looks like a potential star at wide receiver. Don't go
crazy on last night. Some teams are looking to win
the Super Bowl this year. You know who they are.
The Ravens, the Chief Seattle, Green Bay, San Francisco, the Saints.
This team's not a super Bowl team. That is not
their goal. Their goal is to find a franchise quarterback.
(13:39):
And since John Elway retired years and years and years
and years and decades ago, they can't find one. They
had to rent one in Peyton Manning. He was old
and had four next surgeries by the time he got
to Denver. Okay, Denver has a new head. Don't don't
go crazy on this. They got a new offensive coordinator,
their number one receiver was out, their number two receiver
is a rookie. Their tight end a second year tight end.
(14:01):
Drew Locke's got six starts. Since Tennessee's been around a
while they're a good nine and seven team. They're a
playoff team. Don't get into the minutia with Vic Fangio.
I would have called the timeouts, but last night is
about more than that. A lot of teams seven, eight, nine, ten,
they think they can win the Super Bowl. Denver does,
(14:23):
but they can't. That's not where they're at. They're not
in that space. This is a really good franchise. They
can't get the quarterback right. I think they have a
chance if they're patient now. Is Vic Fangio the right
guy with Drew Locke, I don't know. You don't have
to have an offensive coach. I mean, is John Harbone
(14:43):
offensive coach? He's been great for Lamar Jackson. Is Sean
McDermott in Buffalo an offensive coach? Nope, he's been great
for Josh Allen, Pete Carroll's a defensive coach. Russell Wilson's
got two super Bowl trips in one title. You don't
have to be an offensive coach. It would be great
if every but he had Kyle Shanahan. But Jimmy Garoppolo
has Kyle Shanahan, and sometimes you're not sure if they
(15:05):
get along. John Gruden's an offensive guy, and he's brutally
harsh on Derek Carr. Sometimes the offensive coach is too demanding,
is a perfectionist and has his own system and worldview,
and it doesn't work with the quarterback. I don't know
if Vic Fangio is the guys. I would have used
timeouts last night, but the fascinating team isn't the team
that won last night. Tennessee's got Ryan Tannehill in the
(15:27):
AFC ceiling low. Next issue, they'll go nine and seven
because they always do. Frabel's a very good coach. They
can run the ball, They're tough. You know that they'll
be fine. The story's denver. Can they find the next elway?
Now this is an elway. You don't need an elway
to win a Super Bowl. You got to be patient.
As far as the timeouts, Vic Fangio is he the future?
(15:48):
I don't know, a little old out of touch sometimes,
but here's his explanation. Well, it was too fold there. One,
they're field old kicker had obviously been having his problems,
so I want to extend the drive to where they
could get closer. Number one and number two, you know
we would have used the time out, but we got
(16:08):
the running back out of bounds. We would have used
the second time out, but they threw an incompletion, you know,
which would have given us one left when we got
the ball back. So that was part of the thinking.
They're not going to crush him for that. I would
have used him. I've seen coaches who I respect who
have Super Bowls not use him, and he reads a
great coach. His time management has always been the one
(16:31):
thing he gets knocked for, so you know, I would
have used him. But I think the fascinating thing is
sometimes the team that wins is not the story. Drew
Locke with Fant and Melvin Gordon and Judy and I'm
telling you, Denver skilled people are young and they may
not be on your fantasy team. They got a lot
(16:51):
of talent. They have drafted John Elway. You're gonna have
your critics of him, but man, they are ready. If
Drew Locke is the guy, watch out because they are
stacked offensively at the skill positions. Joy with the news, No, no,
this is the herd Line news. Well, the other big
story last nights, as Vic just mentioned, the kicker Stephen
(17:15):
Gustouski had a night shame house key for his Titans
debut last night. He missed three field goals and an
extra point, leaving ten points on the board, but with
seventeen seconds remaining, he redeemed himself sort of and hit
the game winning field goal. He get his team the
sixteen fourteen win over the Broncos. What have you done
(17:38):
for me lately? That's what this league is. I guess
we're not gonna I don't know. Do you forget that
he can he missed that much. That's a pretty substantial
most classic Belichick cuts a Hall of Fame kicker and
he suddenly can't kick. Belichick always just gets rid of
a guy. Just everybody else, everybody paid overpaid for, you know,
like Malcolm Butler and Dion Lewis and he just building.
(18:00):
Do you know what the league, everyone around the league
just keeps falling for it every single time. Every time
I bolicheck must love that. Well, look it had fourteen
seasons in New England's three Super Bowl rings, four a
Pro Bowl. He was a great kicker. He's a hall
of famer. He left the patience the whole time leading scorer. Yeah,
he is a Hall of famer. It's just rough that
that was. That was something. It was like, it was
(18:22):
painful to watch. You know. It's funny about that is
that nobody really ages as well in the NFL. The
difference is like a punter he shanks a couple and
he just disappears into the ether. Right when a kicker
age is poorly, it's like, you know, the camera's right
on him. It usually is crucial. Nobody has any sympathy
(18:43):
for kickers because you're you're not doing anything during uh
OTA's and training and hang out with other kickers. Yeah,
if you're in the shade and yeah, you just gotta
come in, But then all the pressures on you, right,
like we don't see her here from you until you
got to save the game. We've never done a kicker
segment until today, and that tells you. We don't talk
(19:03):
about We never talk about the kid in Baltimore has
been it's one of the great kickers in the history. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we never talk about him. We only talk about We
only talk offensive linemen and kickers. When you screw up
is the only time we talk about. And Jane the game.
He'd never missed three field goals in a game. He
was from forty two forty seven and had a forty
four yard attempt blocked, and he has now missed an
extra point attempt in four consecutive games. So it's over.
(19:27):
It went downhill quickly. So Odell Beckham didn't shine the
way a star receiver should on Sunday. Three receptions twenty
two yards against the Ravens, albeit a pretty rough game
for the Browns all around. He did have a game
high ten targets, though, and Kevin Stepanski is hoping Baker
can get the ball to their star receiver even more
going forward. I think we got a pretty good feel
(19:48):
for Odell and his skill set. I mean, he's a
talent of football player, so it's our job to put
him in position to make plays. We're mindful of all
of our players in terms of how they're touching it.
There were opportunities early where the coverage took it away
or somebody else was open, those type of things. But
he's a good football player, so I don't think it's
(20:09):
newsworthy that he's a focal point of our office. Let's
for the record, Thursday Night football. Yeah, it's gonna be
very good this week Bengals, Browns Baker against Burrow. I'll
tell you this is We said this yesterday. This is
where the NFL is different than every sport in America.
You and I would never watch bad anything college football, hockey,
(20:31):
bat Bengals, Browns could end up not being good. I
cannot wait. I'm throwing a house party Thursday. I cannot
wait for Baker versus Burrow and the Dogs. Yeah, I mean,
I'm not sure they'll be as jazzed for Burrow and
Baker if they were for Brady and Breeze. Listen, everyone
(20:52):
was jazz for Brady and Brees's best best rating since
the Super Bowl. But it's a it's a game, it's
a real game. This is something and could go very badly.
The Bengals have nothing to lose if they lose, it's
expected what the Browns lose after Pittsburgh looked pretty good
last night. Now and they got stomped by the Ravens.
Oh boy, you know this, It sounds overly dramatic. This
(21:17):
game for Cleveland on Thursday is massive. Any dramatic. You
cannot go oh and two and if the Steelers and
the Ravens when you're two and oh, do I sound
ridiculous saying that they both they You just lost a
division game. You have a division appendent on Thursday, the
Steelers just won. Oh my god. Yeah, absolutely, this is
(21:37):
a massive game for must for graphics Thursday. I will say, though, man, like,
I'm not ready to give up on Odell. Well, so
can we just we just get them out of cle Like,
I know Cleveland fans don't want to hear that, but
it doesn't fit perfectly. It's not working. And I understand
(22:00):
that Odell was hurt last year the most of the year,
but like, and I don't want to overreact a week one.
You only have a couple of games to prove me
wrong with that statement like this, you got to get
him going. This is a huge piece of year offense,
and whether he necessarily is or not, his name alone
demands that he does that. He has to be a
big part of your offense. Otherwise he's got to be
(22:20):
a trade piece. I just think he's a star, and
I just feel like he is. He's lost in Cleveland.
He's done an amazing job of buying into everything to
Cleveland's doing. So I don't think that it's his fault,
and I don't necessarily think it's Baker's fault. I just
think it's not working. Yeah, some relationships don't work. It's okay. Finally,
following their disappointing exit in the playoffs, Fox ownership is
showing us they're committed to building a championship team. Jannas
(22:43):
apparently met with the owner Mark Lazarie for three hours
last week to discuss the future of the team, and
Lazie assured him that they are willing to spend into
the luxury tax in the off season in order to
build a stronger supporting cast. Three hours is a long meeting.
That is a long meeting. For that long meeting, I mean,
I love my wife, but if we're not drinking wine,
I haven't sat and talked to her for three hours.
(23:05):
Like that's intense. And he also stopped following some of
the Bucks on Yeah, he followed the team and his
teammates on Twitter and Instagram. After they were eliminated in
the postseason, they stop. He stopped following them. Yeah, okay,
what does that mean? Well, what does that mean? I
don't know. So it's it's something like it can't be nothing.
You cannot tell me. I'm gonna I'm gonna no longer
(23:26):
follow any of my co workers. And there's not some
unless you started that way, like unless you're Beyonce and
you only follow one person, or you don't you only
follow Baker. I used to only follow Okay, so so
you've expanded now. Yeah. So unless you that's just what
you do and you don't follow anybody, that's fine. But
you can't have followed them and then unfollowed them and
(23:49):
then say that it's nothing thank you. But that does
doesn't work. I mean even if you don't, because let's
say you like, oh, like I don't use social media anymore,
then just don't look at it. You don't need to
unfollow it. You know, it sends a message thank you,
So don't. I don't know that I buy into this.
Like I'm not saying that they're not going to try
to spend more money. But if Jannis does decide to
stay in Milwaukee, and I know that there is a
(24:09):
certain section of NBA fandom and obviously Milwaukee fans that
hope that he does that, yeah, I am not one
of them. The East is not going to look like
this next year. I keep telling you this. Heaven Durant
is coming back. He's going to be in Brooklyn. You
better bring something. It's not going to look the same.
Heat are going to get better, Boston is going to
get better. Toronto can make moves at any time, as
(24:30):
we know they've already done it. So if you're going
to spend I suggest you be aggressive. Joy with the news.
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
third line. And I will say this, I've never had
a three hour meeting in my life that lasted that
long where I didn't yell at somebody. I've had a
million meetings. It's too long. Three hours. It's too long,
three hours, we had a disagreement, or we've been out
(24:52):
of here in ninety minutes. Three. I do feel like
we meet for three hours every day. Yeah. Two, and
it's mostly because, yeah, we gave breaks though we don't
have to talk. It's something went on in that meeting
that wasn't ideal. Okay, Okay, So Vander esh Good linebacker
for the Cowboys, surgery, collar bone out now for probably
six to eight weeks. Jar Win the tight end out
(25:15):
for the season. Okay. This is what happened to the
La Rams. When you got seven or eight massive contracts,
you have less depth and one or two injuries and
the season goes downhill. Last year, the Rams were gonna
be good, right, they just got to the Super Bowl. Oh,
(25:35):
then they have a center, and then then they lose
a guy on free agency, and then they have a
couple injuries and all of a sudden, you're like, Rams
can't protect golf and the Todd Gurley. Okay, when you
have a top heavy roster, you're gonna have to steal
from somewhere else. You can't pay everybody and be deep.
And the Steelers and the Patriots have always been very
(25:57):
good at this. The Packers too that they don't pay
a lot of people, and we complain they don't pay
enough people. But they've got a little more depth, and
they can lose one player and be okay. In Green Band,
they can lose. Last year the Steelers lost a quarterback
and then a second and they were still eight and eight.
And New England loses people and it's next man up.
The problem is who's your man? And so the Rams
(26:19):
are top heavy. They paid Girly too much too early.
They paid Brandon Cooks too much. They Jalen Ramsey. I
like him, but they're paying him about thirty percent more
than the market bears. And the Rams now they've they've
been healthy so far, but we saw it last year.
Philadelphia Eagles. This weekend they pay WinCE a Ton, Fletcher
talks Fletcher Cox, a Ton, Lane, Johnson a Ton, Brandon
(26:42):
Brooks a Ton, Alshan, Jeffrey a Ton oh Lane's hurt,
their disintegrate against Washington. This is what happens in this league.
That's why I always say I'm not against players getting
paid pay Infrequently, you pay a handful of stars big money,
and then you don't, and then you make tough decisions.
(27:03):
By the way, Kansas City is becoming this a little bit.
Chris Jones a lot, Mahomes, I get it a lot,
and then Sammy Watkins a lot. You better restructure that,
and Travis Kelsey a lot, and all of a sudden,
you look up one day and you're like, you're a
Honey Badger injury away or a Mitchell Schwartz injury away
(27:23):
from You can't protect Mahomes. You're playing from behind. He's
throwing too much. So this is my knock on Dallas. Dallas,
the Rams and the Eagles have a lot of big
paychecks and a lot of stars, and it's great when
they're healthy. But Dallas has now one more injury away,
Tyron Smith left tackle. He's an older he's great, but
(27:46):
he's not built to play sixteen games anymore. So now
they've lost Gerald McCoy, defensive tackle out for the year,
tight end out for the year, center gone, retired, Tyron Smith,
keep your fingers crossed. Vander esh out for two months.
They are a Tyron Smith injury at left tackle from
(28:06):
being in some real chaos in Dallas. So this is
this is everybody's like, just paid Dak. It's like, this
is why the franchise tag was built. Like, you better
get that quarterback contract right, You better get it right. Um.
And as much as I like Kansas City, you know
Chris Jones goes down. Now, you don't have the pass rush.
Now Patrick Mahomes is in shootouts. So you know, I'm
(28:30):
not anti paying players. I'm not. I am for paying
your hit makers and your stars. But this is this
is fairly predictable with Dallas. They're one more injury away
from oh oh oh, the season's unraveling. Um, all right,
Doug Gottlieb is around the corner, top of the hour.
The herd hierarchy. I put so much into this and
(28:52):
I'm so into it. I don't know why the top
ten teams in the league is so interesting to me,
but it is. And you hate me every Tuesday, and
I love doing it. And we have that in Doug
Gottlieb's coming up next a lot of different topics. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and
noon Easter nine a Empacific heard Hierarchy top of next Hour.
It is so nice. So we got a great Sunday
(29:16):
and then we get Monday night football. Tonight we have
the Clippers game against Denver Game seven. By the way,
this just in. This just leaked Brett McMurphy, a reporter.
The Big Ten is set to announce that they're going
to resume play. We talked about this last week. I
heard this last Wednesday. I was told last Wednesday by
a guy up the chain they were gonna play mid October.
(29:38):
It's been finalized October seventeenth. The Big Ten will play.
The reason the story got out Nebraska's athletic director on
a hot mic. Didn't know he was on the mic.
Let it slip. Nebraska President. My bad, sorry, the ad
was fine. It's the goofy president in the bow tie
that screwed up. So the president for Nebraska on a
hot mic boom and got in trouble. But this is
(29:59):
what we talked about. Last Wednesday. I was hearing from
two sources up the food chain of the Big Ten
they were going to resume play. Pack twelve is off,
sleeping whatevs. Not a shock, but the Big Ten's coming back.
I feel good for Ohio State. I'm happy for Ohio State.
Everybody in their state's playing except the Buckeyes. I totally
get the frustration. I'm very happy for Ohio State. They're
(30:20):
a national championship team. They deserve to play, they want
to play. Kids do coaches? Do parents do? All right,
let's bring in Doug Gottlie, brought to you by Mercedes.
Ben's the best or nothing. So my takeaway on the
Steelers last night was, yeah, I know they beat the Giants.
They always beat the crappy teams. But did you see
a team that's got next level potential? That's the question
(30:40):
for me always with Pittsburgh. Look, we sigh, relatively healthy
Ben Roethlisberger. I think that was the big question, right.
I mean, it's a lot like the Cam Newton thing.
Cam Newton was healthy. We still don't know if he
can throw the football downfield or take a beating the
rest of the season. But look, Ben, obviously he looked
(31:00):
far healthier than he had last year when he had
that big, grizzly beard and looked about fifty pounds overweight.
So look, they did what they were supposed to do.
I was disappointed in Joe Judge hunting on the Steelers
forty yard lines or first year you'd get a pass
if you didn't get it. He was super, super conservative.
But I have no sense for the top of the
(31:21):
food chain, the Ravens and the Chiefs, what they kan
City Chiefs will look like. I just know that Ben
Roethlisberger for now appears to be healthy, and if he's healthy,
combined with a talented defense, they should have a shot.
By the way, Drew Locke, I'm not sure what he is.
I think they've surrounded him with some really compelling parts.
What was your what's your grade? What's your takeaway on
(31:41):
what you see from the young kid? Well, look, I
do think he's talented, he is athletic, and they're using
him the right way, rolling him out. Remember they didn't
have Courtland Sutton. He didn't play last night, right, And
and you know, Melvin Gordon suddenly has become a big fumbler,
at least against the Tennessee Titans, going back to his
Charger days. They've given him why happens? The line is
better than it's been. But we also have to remember
(32:04):
that the score was not really indicative of the game. Okay, yes,
Jerry Judy big drop which changed the game. Yes, they
didn't have Courtland Suddon, but if Gaskowski can make any
of those field goals, it's not close late, right, it
changed the complete tenor of the game. That here a
normally a very good to great kicker can't make a
(32:25):
forty yard field goal, which in the NFL is like
an eighty five shot, so especially in Denver. So look,
do I like him? Yes? Do I think they had
the quarterback of the present? Yes? Is either long term solution?
It feels that way. But again, let's kind of take
a breath and realize that the Titans should have won
by you know, six to nine points, that they could
(32:47):
simply make a field goal or next point. Listen, we
all know when you're an athlete, you get criticized. We
get it. It's part of it. But it is interesting
when you're the greatest player ever and a very loose
operator is telling you, I think you'll be more determined
next week. Like Brady's got issues, determination has never been
one of them. I'm on the Jimmy Johnson's side. I'm
(33:09):
not a huge fan of going after Brady. Arians backtracked
a little, and I like Bruce Arians, but Doug I
always feel he's a little loose. I think you'd take
a deep breath. I didn't love the criticism of Brady publicly,
your thoughts well publicly that the big part is publicly right,
all that stuff he said behind closed doors, I don't
(33:29):
think Brady has a problem with I'm not sure Brady
actually has a problem with it publicly. It's just the
idea of this was one of the reasons that we
were told Giselle was ticked at Bill Belichick. Was he
he treated him just like he was anybody else, not
like a superstar quarterback. Course, she's a supermodel. She's used
to being treated like somebody else, So how Brady reacts,
(33:49):
and I don't think anybody thinks that Brady played well,
especially Brady. The part that bothered me was the arrogant.
There's nothing that they did that we didn't prepare for. Yeah,
like that's the It's not me, it's you when you're
supposed to do this. Sean mcfab You ever seen a
Sean McVay press conference. Yeah, everyone looks exactly the same.
The players are great. If something went wrong, it's on me.
(34:11):
We got to figure it out. And then I'm sure
behind closed doors it's the exact opposite. Right, we told
you this was coming. It was odd. But if you
ask people in Tampa, this is kind of how he
rolls right, calls out his left tackle, calls out his quarterback,
doesn't really care. I'm intrigued to see how this marriage,
this second marriage for Brady goes, because they do run
a loose ship. They do commit penalties that they didn't
(34:33):
commit in New England. They do. You know, you do
have a coach who calls you out in a public
setting like a like a press conference. It is kind
of lucy goosey, and it isn't the same culture he's
used to. And there's a lot of reasons that only
thirty three percent of the free agents hit Like you
ask NFL people to say, one third of three agents
(34:53):
hit and you overpay for free agents. It'll be interesting
to see if this is a hit or if this
is a miss. He is forty three, he looked forty three.
He missed on some throws that he shouldn't miss. And
he's playing in the perfect conditions, the perfect conditions of
a dome. What happens when those conditions change, and what
happens when now, all of a sudden, he gets criticism
when he doesn't have the equity like Bill Belichick can
(35:16):
criticize you because Bill Belichick has six rings. Bill Belichick
has done it with you can do it without you.
He can win ten games with Matt Castle. So I'll
be really interested to see how this marriage proceeds. All right,
you're a basketball guy too. I want to I want
to get to game seventh to night Clippers and Denver.
So you know, one of the things I'll talk about
later is takeout Dynasties. You know, take out MJ, takeout
(35:40):
you know, take out Golden State Durant. A lot of
series go deep. Nine of the last twelve NBA champs
have gone seven games somewhere in the playoffs. Are we
just overreacting and realizing? Nobody ever said the Clippers were great.
We think they're the best team in a year of
a bunch of good teams, and that Game seven doesn't.
(36:00):
But there's no big conclusion that they've been a disappointment.
Well there's there's. Look, there's a lot to what makes
this different. Okay, it's not that they forced a game seven, right,
It's not like like, look, if you had to go
to Denver, you're playing in the altitude and they hit
every three, but you're up what sixteen and nineteen and
back to back games, And it wasn't just they're up
nineteen in game six because the rest of the world
(36:22):
was watching the NFL or maybe the US Open in tennis.
Like they went from up nineteen to getting blown out
by I think the final score was fourteen. They got
boat raced in the second half. There's something wrong there,
and I don't know whether it's you know, they got
bubble fever where you got you know, lou Williams wants
to get out and get on the town. Paul George
has said it's it's hurt his mental health. I don't
(36:44):
think they have a point guard. I think it's really
hard to have a leader who's relatively Mute Kawhi Leonard
and you and you, you have no culture of winning there.
The Clippers have literally never been past the second round.
So you're telling people about something that that there's ever
been accomplished with that name across the front of your chest,
which I do think is something. Yeah. But the juxtaposition
(37:05):
of the Lakers who smell blood with the Houston Rockets
and stomped them out and said you have no shot, Yeah,
through the Clippers who have allowed the Nuggets to hang around. Yeah.
By the way, this sounds ridiculous, but Brown's Bengals feel
so important for Cleveland on Thursday night. You got a
minute left, Like we're not crazy, like that feels like
(37:25):
a huge game for Baker Mayfield in Cleveland, right, correct, correct, Look,
the Bengals are a little bit better than you think.
Remember they get Joe Mixon who was injured some last
year back. AJ Green is back. The defense has been rebuilt.
But Cleveland personnel wise, like if you're doing a pickup game,
out of the twenty two guys in the field, generally
you're going to take about eighteen Cleveland Browns, maybe even nineteen.
(37:48):
And Baker, Baker looks in the mirror and thinks he's
Russell Wilson and he's got to be Drew Brees and
he's not. This is the type of game you lose
on a Thursday night and all of a sudden it
becomes a dumpster fire because Odell is not happy, the
defense isn't competing well, and Baker Mayfield gets the blame. Remember,
the coach is the first to go. That's gone. Then
the gm next thing to go is the players, specifically
(38:10):
the quarterback. Thursday night is massive in Ohio. Good stuff,
Doug gott Lab Douger Foxber Sports Radio after our show.
Good talking to you, Bud. Great to catch up, nice Beard,
Thank you. Um it really is. Actually, you know that's
the great thing about shortened season. You and I have
talked about this. I think the NBA should be about
sixty eight games long. Why every game matters. Like when
(38:31):
when I was a kid, Uh, you know, van Halen
was big. That was that was a rock band. Van
Halen came to Seattle once. That's it. You got him
like every every third year Eddie van Halen and you
know David Lee Roth came into town. We had to go.
If it's if van Halen showed up four times of
summer and did some lallapalooza thing, and they're scarcity equals
(38:54):
intensity equals urgency. You go down, you're O and two.
If you're Cleveland. The Ravens look like the best team
ever created. Pittsburgh schedule, go look at Pittsburgh schedule this morning.
It is a lot of fluff. It is a lot
of home games from against chaotic teams. They get the
AFC East this year. You go oh and two and
now Burrow beat you. We got a major problem in
(39:18):
the Baker Mayfield cap. Now, I do think to Doug's point,
this is one of these if you're on a football
field and could just you know, you're picking the teams
as about three guys from Cincinnati, I'd take I'd take
the rest of the Brown's roster booth. It's it's a
big for Cleveland. It sounds ridiculous. It is a must
win game for the Browns. Comes to reaching your health goals,
it's about changing habits, changing your mind. Go to noom
(39:41):
dot com slash herd n oo and the tools you
need to change your habits to have lasting change in
your life. Hurt hierarchy. Next hour two the herd
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