05/04/2021 - The Best of Outkick The Coverage

Clay Travis does a deep dive into the NFL’s two biggest stories: Aaron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson. If he was an NFL owner, would Clay trade for Watson? Clay Travis takes a close look at the Sarah Fuller story. From darling Vandy kicker to being benched in her primary sport, only Outkick will truthfully cover. FS1's Todd Fuhrman joins the show to react to the draft, it's popularity, what gambling lines tell you, Aaron Rodgers, futures bets, Davis Mills, Lakers, NHL playoffs, Olympics, and a Deshaun Watson trade scenario. Plus, Petros of AM 570 LA Sports is in the house to talk Aaron Rodgers vs. contract, LeBron's return, social media, and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of OutKick the Coverage podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday morning from
six to nine am Eastern three to six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for OutKick
the Coverage at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream
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by searching f s R. This is the best of
OutKick the Coverage with Clay Travis on Fox Sports Radio.

(00:27):
What now becomes by far the biggest story in the
NFL over the ensuing days, weeks, and potentially months is
what's going to happen with Aaron Rodgers and also what's
going to happen with Deshaun Watson. And what's interesting is
I want to unpack and discuss in pretty good detail
part of the time with my warrior head on where

(00:49):
I think these stories are going and why they matter
so much in the larger scale here. So let's start
with the idea of Aaron Rodgers. I always like to go,
as those of you out there who who listen to
the show regularly, no, I like to go to the
gambling markets and see what they are telling us about
potential destinations. Fan Duel dot Com slash Clay. I can

(01:13):
go there and I can look at them. And by
the way we're gonna talk, We're scheduled to anyway to
Todd Ferman in the second hour, so I'll have him
break down this even better than I can do. But
what the gambling markets are telling us is that Aaron
Rodgers is potentially headed to Denver. Because the gambling markets
have taken the Denver Broncos from around a sixty five

(01:35):
or sixty six to one Super Bowl contender. That means
for every one dollar you would get back sixty six.
They were a big underdog, not considered one of the
best teams in the NFL by far, in fact, considered
one of the worst teams in the NFL. Two as
rumors have continued to circle that Aaron Rodgers is potentially

(01:55):
headed to the Denver Broncos, that number is now around
twenty one at a variety of different places. Why have
those numbers moved and why have we also saw the
Green Bay Packers start to back up as a favorite
as well. Uh in the Super Bowl market place, It's
because there is a lot of smoke that Aaron Rodgers

(02:17):
is going to go to Denver. And that's where I
believe he is going to take his first snap of
the season. I believe Aaron Rodgers will play. I think
the Broncos will work out a trade with the Packers
to ship Aaron Rodgers from the NFC to the a
f C. Based on what I have heard, based on
reading the markets, I think Aaron Rodgers to the Denver

(02:39):
Broncos is going to happen. Other clear indication that it
might happen was what happened on Thursday. Sitting at the
ninth spot, the Denver Broncos had the opportunity to draft
Justin Fields or mac Jones, and instead they decided to
opt for a corner. That's despite the fact that the
only two real quarterbacks on their roster right now are

(03:01):
Drew Lock and Teddy Bridgewater, and neither of those guys
makes very much money. I think combined, they are going
to cost the Broncos around five million dollars at the
quarterback position. That is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
There is not a single team that has a quarterback
duo that costs less than that in the entirety of

(03:23):
the NFL. So the Broncos had a really clear opportunity
to go get Justin Fields at nine, to go get
Mac Jones at nine, to decide to draft their quarterback
of the future, and they passed on it. Why would
they pass on it? Given how good those options were
and how many rumors there were out there that Justin

(03:43):
Fields in particular was a guy that the Broncos wanted. Instead,
they let the Bears trade up at eleven and go
get Justin Fields, and they themselves passed on Fields and
on mac Jones. The only real reason to me that
is rational for the Broncos to have made that choice.
So I guess you could say they didn't like either quarterback.
That's always a possibility, but it's because I think they

(04:06):
believe they are going to get Aaron Rodgers signed, sealed
and delivered in Denver. And that is what the gambling
markets are telling us right now. So Aaron Rodgers goes
public on Thursday, says I want out, the gambling markets
continue to move in a direction that discusses and and
debates would say, instead of me just sitting here talking

(04:29):
to you about it, the dollars are coming in on
the Broncos in a way that reflects that Aaron Rodgers
is likely to be going there, and the dollars are
coming off of the Green Bay Packers in a way
that suggests that Aaron Rodgers may be moving from there.
Now the gambling market markets can fluctuate. There certainly are
still a lot of details to be worked out. But

(04:49):
I think that's the number one story that we are
being told right now in the NFL in the off season. Okay,
that's the Aaron Rodgers side of the equation. Here's the
other biggest story in the NFL that's going on, Deshaun Watson.
And I keep talking about this story because frankly, the
silence is stunning to me. Twenty two different women have

(05:13):
accused Deshaun Watson of sexual assault. The Houston Texans made
the decision with their first pick in the draft. Remember
they didn't have a first or a second round guy,
to go get Davis Mills out of Stanford. Why did
they do that? Because they are desperate, I believe, to
try and figure out their quarterback position right now. There

(05:34):
aren't a lot of available players that are proven, and
theoretically the Houston Texans are now too. Rod Taylor's team
with Davis Mills potentially able to challenge him. That is
the weakest, even weaker than the Broncos who Withdrew Lock
and with Teddy Bridgewater. To me, by far, the Houston
Texans now have a historically weak quarterback duo in the

(05:57):
history of the NFL. But while lot of bad quarterback duos,
but Trod Taylor not very good, and so far we
have no idea what Davis Mills is gonna be capable of.
So historically bad duo, and the Texans didn't have a
lot of other options out there among quarterbacks. They don't
want to give up any more picks, so reading the

(06:19):
tea leaves, it was not surprising that they went in
and grabbed Davis Mills. But what that pick tells me
is that Deshaun Watson is done in Houston now. It
remains to be seen whether Deshaun Watson has any substantial
trade value, but I think the Texans, by taking Davis Mills,
are effectively letting everybody know, hey, we're done with Deshaun Watson.

(06:43):
We don't think he's gonna play in one. We are
finished with our future franchise quarterback now. And I think,
as I've been saying for a long time, there are
legitimate questions about how long Deshaun Watson is going to
be out, particularly as it pertains to whether or not
there might be criminal charges in Houston against him, which
would add even more difficulty to this situation. But where

(07:06):
I see these two stories connected is you had quarterbacks
who went public and demanded trades. Now there's a big
difference to me between Aaron Rodgers at the age of
thirty seven being fed up with nine of the ten
first round picks of the Broncos over the last decade
being defensive players, and also the only first round pick

(07:28):
who's been an offensive player being Jordan's Love, So I
don't and the Deshaun Watson was just upset over the
way that the Bill O'Brien basically managed the Houston Texans.
But remember when Bill O'Brien, for instance, went to go
get Laramie tunsl and gave up all the assets that
he did. He wasn't anticipating that the Houston Texans were

(07:50):
gonna fall to four and twelve. He thought Laramie Tunsil
was gonna be able to protect the blind side of
his franchise quarterback. That move was made with the Shawn
Watson in mind, So that shouldn't really be something that
Deshaun Watson is angry about because the four and twelve
Texans ending up having to trade a third overall pick.

(08:11):
Nobody would have really anticipated, certainly not Bill O'Brien, that
the Texans would fall flat on their face there with
a healthy Deshaun Watson. In fact, if you want to
spind forward a negative narrative, it would be, Hey, DeShawn Watson,
you're angry about going four and twelve, but with the
money that the Texans have committed to you, that's the

(08:31):
reason why they commit that money to you, so that
four and twelve never becomes a reality as long as
you're healthy. You played in all sixteen games and the
teams still stunk. That is partly your fault, because again,
the Laramie Tunsil trade was about trying to protect you.
So I think the Texans are letting it be known

(08:52):
that they're done with Deshaun Watson. I tossed this out
a bit yesterday, but I want to expand upon it
right now. If I were the Houston Texans, I would
be on the phone right now with the Green Bay
Packers saying, hey, we'll trade you Deshaun Watson for Aaron Rodgers. Now,

(09:13):
I don't know that Aaron Rodgers would agree to play
with Houston. I think certainly he wants to win a championship,
and it doesn't feel like the Houston Texans are very
close to being able to contend for a championship. So
I think Aaron Rodgers would shoot it down. But the
reason why I would make that call is you don't
know exactly what the Packers might be willing to say
as it pertains to Deshaun Watson. It's a major risk,

(09:37):
and I think a lot of owners would run in
the opposite direction to even think about grabbing Deshaun Watson.
But it's a conversation that I think should happen, and
there aren't that many teams that are desperate enough to
make a deal like that. I'll give you another one.
A part of me and I know the Steelers are
an expertly run franchise. But the Steelers right now have

(10:00):
an aging quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger. They have got Mason Rudolph,
who it appears they're going to give a chance to
be the guy to replace Ben Roethlisberger based on the
contract that they've signed him. Mike Tomlin does an incredible
job either getting guys to buy in or shipping them
out of town. Levian Bell didn't buy in. He's basically

(10:22):
been unheard of since. To his credit, he found a
way Antonio Brown did to win a Super Bowl ring.
But the star Cross tenure of Antonio Brown after he
left Pittsburgh suggest that Mike Tomlin is a great coach
at not only being able to, you know, sort of

(10:42):
motivate his guys, but also at keeping all sorts of
dissension in house. So a part of me, if I
were the Pittsburgh Steelers, would be potentially inquiring about the
idea of Deshaun Watson again, because in a year you're
gonna have to move on from Ben Roethlisberger. Maybe maybe

(11:06):
you take the risk on Deshaun Watson right now, same
thing with Washington. Ron Rivera's team is stacked on the
defensive side of the ball. I think they're actually gonna
be one of the surprises. It wouldn't stun me if
they won the NFC East this year. If Ryan Fitzpatrick
can just play decent and consistent, which has always been
sort of the challenge for him, fits Magic can go

(11:27):
up and down in a big way. Game to game, certainly,
uh month to month, there's not a lot of consistency
to it. But if he could play well, they're a contender.
If he doesn't play well, If I'm Washington, I'm getting
on the phone with Houston because I think, based on

(11:47):
drafting Davis Mills, that the Texans would love to wash
their hands of Deshaun Watson. And I think the price
that Deshaun Watson would cost right now is so far
down flow chart that if you have this is honestly
one of those rare situations where you need a great
legal team, like we talked yesterday about Dr David Chow

(12:09):
and the importance of being able to have a good
medical advising team to look over all the details as
it pertains to whether or not a guy is gonna
be able to be healthy or not in the season,
whether he's gonna have a long career. As a part
of the draft, this is where you need like a
team of high end legal advisors and say, Okay, what's

(12:30):
the worst case scenario for Deshaun Watson. I'll tell you
the worst case scenario is he never plays another football game.
Best case scenario he settles all twenty two of these
uh civil charges, never any criminal charges filed. He gets
suspended for six or eight games as a result, and
he's able to play even by the end of the season.

(12:55):
Regardless the Texans are willing to move on for him
from him, if you were willing to give up a
first round draft pick, even if you don't know where
that pick is gonna be, I think it's possible that
you could get Deshaun Watson if I'm the Steelers, if
I am the Washington football team. Those are calls that

(13:19):
I am making right now. And while I think Aaron
Rodgers is likely going to Denver, I also think that's
a call that the Denver Bronco should make because even
if you have to deal with that risk, I think
what you could say as an owner or GM is, look,
we're not Here's what I would say, right if I
had to go talk to the media. We're not making

(13:40):
any determination about the legal issues that are facing Deshaun Watson.
We are making a determination based on the talent on
the football field that we have seen from Deshaun Watson.
We believe he's going to resolve his legal issues with
the NFL, with the civil courts. Everyone involved here at
some point in the near future and when that happens,

(14:03):
if he is then eligible to go to the football field,
we think we are getting a heck of a football
player who has learned a lot about the dangers in
the way that he has to carry himself in the future,
and we thought, based on conversations with Deshaun Watson and
his representatives, that putting him in an entirely new city,
in an entire entirely new environment was the right choice.

(14:27):
I understand you're going to criticize our decision because of
the off the field related incidents, but that is my
thought process that we are getting a good player who
is going to be a better person than he has
been in the past in the years ahead. He's still
very young, and I believe we are getting him at
a cost where the benefit outweighs the risk. And so

(14:50):
that's what I would say if I were the GM,
if I were an owner, I would be willing to
take the slings and arrows of criticism that would come
from going to get Deshaun Watson, and I would take
the risk that he might be out for a substantial
period of time because I think the payoff in the

(15:10):
event that he is able to play again is potentially
worth it in a substantial way. So I floated the
idea of the Packers having an interest in Deshaun Watson
because of the issue with Aaron Rodgers. I haven't heard
anybody else talking about it. I would say that Denver
Broncos who I think is gonna get Aaron? Who are
I think are going to get Aaron Rodgers? Based on
the odds markets, I would also make a call about

(15:32):
Deshaun Watson, and just looking at the larger scope and
universe out there, Washington and UH and Pittsburgh are going
to be in the quarterback market by next year. You
can wait. But if Deshaun Watson resolves all these issues,
his cost is going to go up. You lose some
of your negotiating leverage. Right now, the weekend after the

(15:55):
Houston Texans have gone and drafted Davis Mills. I don't
know how they could give you any clearer of a
sign that they want out of the Deshaun Watson business
than what they are saying right now. And I think
now would be the time to potentially pounce and consider
if you have good legal experts and if they are

(16:16):
analyzing this case in a smart Way potentially making the
move on from Deshaun Watson and trying to get him
for a relatively reduced price. Now, the downside there remains
it's possible that Deshaun Watson never plays another football game.
It's possible that he is never out there again ever

(16:38):
on the field, And I think that is the danger.
But I think the risk reward now is potentially out
there for somebody who's willing to take that risk and
who is willing to take the criticism that comes with
taking that risk. I'll ask Paulka Harski about this here
in a minute. He is the newest member of one
of the newest members of the out Kick universe. He

(17:00):
is in the OutKick three sixty UH, and he will
join us to break down everything that happened in the
NFL Draft from his perspective, quarterbacks out there, the five
that went in the top fifteen. Does he buy into
my theory about Davis Mills going to the Texans and
what a big deal that is? Uh? And many other
angles to hit in the world of the NFL Draft
that will be in the next segment. This is Outkicked

(17:22):
the coverage with Clay Travis. NFL Draft reaction obviously continuing.
I've talked a lot about the Aaron Rodgers situation to
Shaun Watson, uh and why I think that Davis Mills
draft pick was such a significant story even though it's
not being talked about a ton. We got a crazy
Zack Wilson story with the Jets that I'm going to

(17:43):
dive into uh many different directions to head as we
continue to work our way throughout the course of the program.
But I didn't and I do think this is kind
of a ridiculous fun story um that we talked about
someone out kicked that I don't think it got a
lot of attention elsewhere. So many of you will remember

(18:04):
that Vanderbilt kicker Sarah Fuller was a member of the
women's soccer team at Vanderbilt, and this past fall they
turned Sarah Fuller coming in to kick a couple of
extra points into one of the woke super stories of
the entire universe. This idea that Sarah Fuller, Oh my god,

(18:27):
she's saving Vanderbilt. Otherwise they would never be able to
kick any extra points. None of this made sense right,
And it was like if you mentioned any of the
facts that pointed out that this was a sham, and
that this was just designed to kind of draw attention
without actually being legitimate. People were like, Oh, it's so
sexist of you to even point that out. But I
was like, wait a minute. They have a kicker who

(18:50):
was attempting field goals, they have a punter. You're telling
me that the kicker that is kicking forty plus yard
field goals isn't able to jog onto the field and
actually kick extra points. That this is necessary. This is
a total sham, and more power to it if it's

(19:10):
just being treated as a way to get attention. But
she's addressing the team at halftime, she's talking about the
effort in the intensity, and people were acting they named
her the SEC player of the week on special Teams.
People are acting like this is real when in reality

(19:30):
it's a total sham. And some people got mad at me,
but we're like, how dare you? Why would you even
share that opinion? Right? Like, because blue check marks on
Twitter all have the exact same opinion. So this won't
get hardly any attention anywhere else. And the amount of
stories like these that almost received no attention but for
out kick continue to grow. Sarah Fuller Vanderbilt women's soccer

(19:54):
goalie who was supposedly got such an amazing leg is
such an incredible soccer layer. She got benched by the
Vanderbilt women's soccer team in the biggest game of the year.
They're in c double a tournament game against Penn State
for a freshman goalie on the Vanderbilt women's soccer team.

(20:15):
So all season, like we heard, oh, she's so great,
she's such an incredible kicker, she's amazing. They didn't even
use her in the most important game of the year
in the sport that she actually plays and is on
scholarship to play, and we're supposed to believe that she

(20:38):
is necessary for the Vanderbilt football team. This is why
so many of these stories. If you ask any questions
at all, just immediately blow up. My first thought is,
if you want to just kind of make a joke,
Vanderbilt should have been using this other kicker, right, She's
not even the best goalie on her team. I was

(21:00):
Vanderbilt using her. She's not even the best women's soccer
player they could have picked because she wasn't even starting
in the most important game of the year that they
played in Vanderbilt women's soccer. And by the way, this
is not a shot at her. She was used as
a way to make a statement that had nothing to
do with the meritocracy of sports. See the reason. One

(21:24):
of the primary reasons why I love sports so much
is so much of American life today is total b s.
But there is an authenticity two sports that is almost
impossible to replicate anywhere else. Best man or best woman wins.
You want to prove that you're the fastest person, line

(21:46):
up and run and prove it. Now, obviously we can
get into all different sorts of steroids and everything else,
but let's pretend that everybody's clean. At the Olympics. You
can find out who the fastest man or the fastest
woman in the entire world is because we got a
track and you have to prove it time after time
after time. If you are the best kicker in the
NFL or the best kicker in college football, over time,

(22:10):
you will prove that based on your ability to make kicks.
But don't sell me on the idea that a stunt
is real life. Okay, and I'm okay with stunts when
it's acknowledged that it's a stunt, I don't have a
problem when a kid is that a spring game and

(22:34):
you decide that you want to let the kid score
a touchdown, right, This this kind of a feel good
moment that might happen in a spring game, or you're
not keeping score and eight year old kid gets a
football and he runs around the corner and the team
lets him score. I think that is really kind of awesome, honestly,

(22:55):
And that is not making a mockery of the sport
itself because it's not a real contest. But when you
bring somebody in in a real contest and try to
sell us on the idea that this is a remarkable
achievement because nobody else could do what this person is doing,

(23:17):
and everyone out there with a functional brain knows that
this is not the case. I feel like we live
in an fundamentally artificial universe when almost no one else
will say anything because they're so afraid that people might
be mean to them on Twitter. So that's why this

(23:40):
is a story. Sarah Fuller is supposedly such an amazing
kicker that she's saved Vanderbilt by coming in and kicking
two extra points, which is a total why. But she
wasn't even good enough in her primary sport, according to
the coach who's theoretically trying to win that sport. To

(24:02):
even start in that game against Penn State, I believe
it was in the n c Double A Tournament. How
can you sell me on her talent being so impressive
and so incredible in the world of college football, which
is what all the blue checks tried to do. When
she's not even good enough to start in the most

(24:25):
important game of the season on her team and she
gets benched. She's not even the best at the sport
that she actually plays, and we were being sold the
lie that she was the best kicker available on Vanderbilt's campus.
It was a lie. It was a sham. It was

(24:48):
a stunt. And some people say, why do you have
to call it out because competition, what I believe in
is in games that matter, what you owe every person
out there is you're going to compete your absolute hardest
to try to win the game. You may not win,
You're gonna coach the absolute hardest to try to win

(25:08):
the game. That's what competition is to me. That's how
you end up with success in life is being able
and willing to compete as hard as you can every
single day. Sometimes you're gonna win, sometimes you're gonna lose.
But the lessons of putting yourself out there in athletics
translates into so many other different parts of life. And

(25:32):
we all got sold a bill of goods, and OutKick
was one of the only places that was willing to
raise this as a bill of goods. And I bet
you won't hear anywhere else. All those guys out there
slinging the story about her being the best kicker on Vanderbilt,
well they even mentioned that she got benched from her
own women's soccer team. I bet not facts matter, So

(25:53):
does truth, so does honesty. Competition at the highest echelon
is the absolute apex of what we should aspire to
in all sports. This is out Kick Up next Todd
Furman on Fox Sports Radio. This is Outkicked the coverage
with Clay Travis Hey, It's Ben host to the Fifth

(26:16):
Hour with Ben Mallory along with my trustees sidekick David Gascon.
Would mean a lot to have you join us on
our weekly auditory journey. You're asking one in God's name
is the Fifth Hour? I'll tell you it's a spin
off of the Ben Maller short cold hit overnights on
FS are why should you listen? Picture If you will
the world will We chat with captains of industry in media,
sports and more every week Explorer, some amazing facts about

(26:40):
a human nature and more. Let's sen to the fifth
hour with Ben Mallow on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. We bring
in now my buddy Todd Furman uh is a co
host alongside of me on Fox bed Live, which airs
at five o'clock Eastern, four o'clock Central, three o'clock Mountain,
two o'clock Pacific. So later today we will be talking
as well. But Ferman, I want to start with you

(27:01):
because I think that the gambling markets associated with the
NFL draft made the draft wildly more entertaining than it
ordinarily would, because it gave people a reasonable like dollar
figure to be paying attention to as it pertains to
where people might be drafted, as opposed to just a

(27:23):
lot of the hot air that is often out there
where a new mock draft comes out. And the biggest
and best story associated that with that was what happened
with the San Francisco forty niners as the odds markets
jumped around quite a bit, Justin Fields was favored, Mac
Jones was favored multiple times, and then on the day
of the draft, boom, tray lance suddenly started to surge.
The money told us what the story was on draft day. Yeah,

(27:47):
I always think when you have a market, that's typically
going to be a better indicator of speculation because money
speaks volumes. Although the one thing I will say, we
did see money coming on tray lance, but it wasn't
as though the number got better of control. Typically you
can see those prices go from him being a slight
underdog to a one to ten favorite, and we had gone, hey,
we know exactly who the forty niners are going to take.

(28:09):
So the fact that the number started drift out there
was a little bit of buy back that came in
on the rest of the field told me that, hey,
nobody really knows exactly what the forty niners are gonna
do other than a handful of folks out there. One
thing I will say though about the Draft, there's no
doubt that increased the amounts of wagering on it definitely
make it a much more compelling event. But I put
out a poll to my audience, and I usually like

(28:30):
to think it's a somewhat representative cross section of the
gambling community. Of those people that responded in the poll
said they weren't going to bet the draft, So I
think it's still a market that has a lot of
upside out there is people get more and more comfortable.
But sometimes, as you always know, the Twitter versusn't all
just indicative of how people necessarily view it as a
truly wager bull event, no doubt. But would you buy

(28:52):
into this argument that I made yesterday the three biggest
sports in America in order, the NFL, college football, and
then the NFL Draft, Because my argument yesterday on the
show was if you made me draft uh topics to
talk about, those would be my top three picks and
I wouldn't even blink at any of them. Way better
than the NBA, Major League Baseball, the NHL football dominates,

(29:14):
and even the draft, which obviously connects it's the lynch
pin between college and pro football, continues to get more
and more wildly popular. The past two seasons highest ratings
we've ever seen for the NFL Draft. On record, I'll
actually flip flop college football in the draft. I think
the drafting the draft is bigger than college football, you
would take anything. It is definitely growing that way because

(29:35):
it's something that doesn't show a regional bias. I mean,
that's the reality of it. Hope springs eternal for all
thirty two franchises. And whether you're Jacksonville JAGUARSPAN drafting first overall,
or you're Kansas City Chiefs or Tampa Bay buckspan drafting
at the bottom of the first round, you're tuning in.
Whereas college football over the last couple of years, we
can pencil in three of the four teams, especially in

(29:55):
the national landscape for the semifinals. Of course, you'll get
your marquee games during the season, but I think the
draft is a standalone event, probably bigger than college football,
behind only the NFL. It's pretty interesting. Um, let's go
into the draft for a moment here. There's a lot
of attention on it. Did any future's odds change in
a substantial way based on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I'm gonna

(30:17):
get to Aaron Rodgers, so I'm not asking particularly about that,
but just the guys that were actually drafted or had
the market pretty much priced in everything, and we didn't
see much movement based on what happened in the draft substantial. No,
But there was one team that saw their odds tick
down a touch and that was the Chicago Bears. They
of course went from fifty to one thereabouts out to

(30:38):
sixty one after signing Andy Dalton, but we saw a
FanDuel drop their odds in that fifty to one range.
And that's as much speculative as it is anything else.
Knowing how popular a fan base the Bears are and
how people want to put up a little bit to
make a lot, you could accrue liability pretty quickly. And
knowing that Ryan Pace traded out of number twenty up
to number eleven to get the perceived franchise quarterback. Do

(31:00):
I think it materializes on the field this season. Absolutely not.
But that is the one team that saw their odds
improved after draft ding. And how much of that is,
you know, sort of a scientific analysis of the overall
talent versus just excitement from Chicago Bear fans, of whom
there are many, as you said, that may have flooded
in and said, hey, justin Field super Bowl baby, like,

(31:21):
just because they're so excited about having him as a quarterback.
It is the ladder more so than anything else. I
don't think you could talk to any professional better out
there that's going through and adjusting their power numbers, and
they're going to make the Bears a Super Bowl contender
after acquiring justin fields there, because I don't think he
even starts week one. If you're Matt and Aggie and
your Ryan Pace, what better way to give yourselves another

(31:41):
year of job security than keeping your rookie quarterback on
the bench for his entire first season, or at least
extended portions of it. So it won't change anything from
a wind totals market or anything along those lines, but
it's more books protecting themselves from potential liability that can accrue.
All right, this is fun. We've known each other for
what like almost fifteen years, but whatever the heck it is,
you've been coming on radio for a long time now.

(32:03):
But one of the first times that I remember the
line you like to say a phrase, the line tells
a story. One of the first times that I remember
you pointing this out was when Johnny Manziel was a
little bit under duress surrounding his his eligibility off the
field because of autographs and everything else. And I think

(32:24):
it was the early season game against Alabama, the line
started to move fairly substantially and the only player that
could have been involved was Johnny Manzel. And then boom,
the story comes out about the alleged autograph related situation
that's probably been I don't know, a decade ago or whatever.
The heck it was uh nine ten years ago that
that happened now. Uh. The reason why I used that

(32:44):
as an example is people have gotten more sophisticated in
using line moves to kind of gauge where stories might
be going. And you probably can tell where I'm headed
here with Aaron Rodgers. What have the future's odds for
the Green Bay Packers done? And have the future's odds
done for the Denver Broncos? Who are the team that

(33:04):
I think he's going to end up on. Over the
past week or so, as this story has basically blown
up since Thursday, Well funny story about that, because when
those rumors were starting to swirl on draft Day, the
first thing, as most betters are gonna do, you're gonna
scramble and try and figure out what the prices are.
So I actually went to one of the books out
here in Las Vegas was able to get a piece

(33:24):
of the Denver Broncos at knowing that, hey, it's a
shot in the dark more than anything else. Probably about
fifty minutes later, because our city is so small, one
of the bookmakers actually texted me and when do you
believe this rumor? Or are you just betting it more
speculation than anything else. So they ended up moving the
number as low as twenty after my bet, just kind
of cutting in a half. And again it wasn't anything substantial,

(33:46):
but you did see books that had the Broncos as
high as sixty two. One. Have to try and hedge
against some of that potential and the risk, because you
know that people are going to follow the rumor mill,
and oftentimes where they're smoke, there's fire. So if you
can lock up a ticket at six two one, they
thing that the Broncos start the season at twenty to
one if they acquire Aaron Rodgers, you have to try
and take that chance, the same way that we talk
about it all the time with NBA free agency. Now,

(34:08):
of course, if Denver goes into season with Teddy Bridgewater
and Drew Lock, I've made a charitable donation and I'll
just have to write it off on my tax statement
at the end of the year. But I do think
that the Denver Broncos are very much in the mix
for Aaron Rodgers now as it pertains to the Green
Bay Packers with interesting there as you've seen their wind
total pulled off the board everywhere. But books won't take
the Packers up to the price that will be available

(34:31):
if we know Aaron is definitely traded out of town,
because that's the luxury they have in a higher hold market,
that is the NFL futures. They can keep green Bay
in that eight to one range, ten to one range,
and as soon as Rodgers gets traded, jack them up
to fifty to one. But there's no reason for them
to move that number prematurely and take on Green Bay
Packers money if there's a chance that Aaron could still

(34:51):
be their starting quarterback when we're talking about week one
uh later this September. So that's pretty fascinating. So the
move primarily in terms of unlocking value aim on the Broncos,
who were up around six to one, and they now
have come down to around one at some shops anyway, yep,
and the numbers stabilized. You'll see some books keep that
price artificially low. You'll see other books kind of drift

(35:14):
back into that nebulous area because they don't want to
discourage people from betting Denver. But there's a real chance.
Much like we saw last year with the Tom Brady Sweepstakes,
people were trying to bet as many different futures as
they possibly could for teams that they thought could realistically
land Tom. And whether it was a Tennessee Titans, or
the Indianapolis Colts or the Tampa Bay Bucks, the early
bird gets the worm, and if you thought he was

(35:36):
gonna land in Tampa, happen to have that information, you
could have a ticket on the Bucks at six one.
I of course made the case that Jamis Winston was
going to make them a contender, So I won't uh
profess to have that foresight that I thought TB twelve
was gonna take his talents down there to the Gulf
Coast of Florida. So just kind of put letting people know.
Right now, the Green Bay Packers are seventeen to one

(35:56):
at fan Duel and the Denver Broncos are twenty forward
to one at fan Duel to potentially win the Super Bowl.
So the Broncos have surged up and and the Packers
have actually come back a decent amount at at fan duel,
where I think you you said, like ten to one
ish was kind of where the Packers were. Yeah, And
I think that's one of the challenges, and it's part

(36:16):
of one of the more exciting parts about being a
bookmaker when it comes to futures that you get to
play this cat and mouse game. It's not the same
risk threshold necessarily that you'll see week to week when
you anxiously await the status of a marquee quarterback, in
this case Aaron Rodgers, who can move the number upwards
of nine points in his prime. Whereas in the futures book,
if you happen to take on a few bets that

(36:38):
you didn't want to take a much higher numbers than
where the market will go off, you have nine to
ten months to try and attract wagers everywhere else. And
so that was one of the things that I really
enjoyed when it came to setting future markets, trying to
figure out the adjustments in personnel, which players could really
move the needle, and then ultimately putting myself in a
spot to balance the books as you got closer to
when they were actually gonna hand out the hardware. UM

(37:00):
one of the things that is tough to analyze, but
it seems like it's pretty clear just based on the
pick that they made. Davis Mills going to the Houston
Texans is as clear of assign to me as is
almost possible that Deshaun Watson is not playing for the
Texans in and I haven't even paid a lot of
attention to Texans odds, but has that been factored in
the marketplace in terms of the likelihood that Deshaun Watson

(37:23):
is eligible and or playing in one based on his
off the field related issues. It was evident in their
win total the Houston Texans had the lowest wind total
in the entire National Football League. That number I saw
as low as four and a half, and of course,
with the addition of another game, that's not exactly a
spot you want to be in. So I think bookmakers
believe that Deshaun Watson will be a long shot to

(37:45):
be under center, especially for the entire regular season. Maybe
he plays a portion, but as you talk about the
Texans trying to figure out their next direction, Davis Mills
and Deshaun Watson very different skill sets. So it is
interesting if you're going to draft a quarterback as high
as they did, kind of be the backup that can't
run the offense the same way that Watson will. So
you hate to say that there is something to be

(38:06):
read in the tea leaves, but I'm not optimistic about
watson status for this season, and we'll figure out exactly
what it means above and beyond. All Right, it's gonna
be a complicated year for futures in the NHL and
in the n b A as we get closer and
closer to the playoffs in both of those places. So
I'm gonna ask you, because I'm not even an expert,
exactly and how this is gonna be played. I know
that doesn't shock you. But the play in but start

(38:29):
in the NBA, the play in scenario which Lebron James
is all fired up about, which the MAVs were fired
up about earlier. Everybody hates the play in playoffs scenario
if their team is potentially going to have to be involved.
The Lakers are still the second most likely team to
win the championship according to oddsmakers right now, but walk

(38:50):
us through what that play in scenario does too. In
terms I mean basically adds another round of the NBA
playoffs and how that would impact futures as you look
forward there. Well, the crazy part about it if it
wasn't the Lakers potential to be involved in that seventh
through ten matchup. I don't think any of the teams
that are in the playing type scenario, whether they're in

(39:11):
the Eastern Conference or the Western Conference, have aspirations of
winning the Larry O'Brian Trophy. So the fact that the
Lakers have remained second favorites on the board despite the
fact that they could have to just win a couple
of games to even get into the playoff mix, uh
somewhat ironic and entertaining, all on the same level, especially
when you look at their upcoming schedule in the wake
of last night's game against Denver. But as you try

(39:34):
and go through and figure out what it means from
a future's implication standpoint, the short answer is nothing. Not
A fan duels credit. They've drifted the Lakers odds out
and it's probably one of the best prices in the
market at four and a half to one, where they
have held relatively steady in that three three and a
half range the Nets by virtue of some of the
rigorous road that teams are gonna have to go through.
The Western Conference remain the de facto favorite at six

(39:56):
to one. But I can tell you the Lakers potential
struggles are deaf the lea boone for the likes of
the Utah Jazz, the Phoenix Suns, And if you believe
in the Denver Nuggets, why are the available at one?
So would you still be buying stock in the Lakers
right now? They haven't been that great since Lebron James
came back. Obviously Lebron still recovering in some way from
the high ankle sprain Anthony Davis looks. I think it's

(40:19):
fair to say nowhere near his peak ability. I think
you and a lot of other people out there me
certainly anticipate that by the time the playoffs start, a
lot of NBA teams are basically kind of getting theirselves
in position to be at their peak by the time
the playoffs get here. Is there still value on the
Lakers here or are you getting apprehensive about their ability

(40:41):
to proverbi ably proverbially splip the switch here? You know,
four and a half the one is the number that
I want to dig into a little bit more because
I think that might be a price point that I'd
be willing to weep. My appetite on the Lakers haven't
jumped in, don't have a ticket on them at any
particular price. But there's also another school of thought that
you can wait out the regular season, see how the
seatings are going to look, and then make a more

(41:03):
informed decision at that point. Because the Lakers are without
the services of Dennis Shrewder now too, So while we
talk about the Nets and their big three not having
a chance to build chemistry, a couple of the key
cogs for the Lakers won't spend a lot of time
on the floor over the last four to six weeks
of the regular season before they start playing meaningful basketball.
So for those folks that may want to invest in
the Lakers can ride out the regular season. I can't

(41:24):
see a scenario where this price changes a ton. And
in the wake of some of Lebron's comments about how
this recovery from the ankle injury was more stressful than
anything else he's had to go through to get back
on the court, sometimes you want to try and read
between the lines and maybe this Lakers team won't be
nearly as dynamic as the group that we saw win
the title in the Bubble last year. It's been crazy
in the NHL this year. The Canadian teams have not

(41:46):
been crossing the border. They've been playing and you've been
betting all these Canadian games on a regular basis. How
is the NHL playoffs going to look compared to past
years and how would you go about trying to assess
how that impacts Stanley Cup odds. So a little bit
of a different format here. Every division will be self contained,
so we'll get our We'll get the NHL down to

(42:07):
a final four. All these teams that have played anywhere
from eight games against the same opponents upwards of ten
will still have to go through those similar opponents. You'll
have four teams from each division, one champion of each
divisional emerge and that's where things can really get interesting
when we try and figure out which of these teams
is actually battle tested and who benefited from just playing
some of the lightweights. I do think it makes for

(42:29):
a much more compelling Stanley Cup finals. We talked about
the parody in the NHL, making it one of the
greatest postseasons there is, and this year you're gonna have
some of the best teams, where in my opinion, you
should probably shy away from betting some of the favorites
now because a team like the Colorado Avalanche or Vegas
Golden Knights that are the favorite that FanDuel as we
sit here, would have to play each other in the

(42:49):
second round of the playoffs and still win two more
series uh to hoist the Stanley Cup. So don't look
at some of the shorter odds that are out there.
If I'm trying to identify a little bit of value,
I think two teams hailing from the Stern Conference make
the most sense, and that would be the Bruins at
thirteen to one in the Penguins at fourteen to one.
I think one of those two teams comes out and
they play a brand of hockey if they have the

(43:09):
right matchup in that final four that can get them
to the Stanley Cup and allow you to earn against
that ticket. Um, we're talking to Todd Ferman at Todd
fermant on Twitter. Well, you and I don't even know
the answer to this. So we're gonna have a late
into the season in both hockey, and in uh and
in the NBA, and then we run right into the Olympics.
Are you an Olympics gambler? Like, will you actually have

(43:32):
odds that you are playing off of? Will you gamble
the Olympics? Because the reason why I ask this is
going to be the first Olympics I think you can
you can correct me if I'm wrong. Where in theory
there would be a lot of action in a lot
of different states because four years ago or five years ago,
I guess it was when the last Olympics happened, there
was no legalized and quotation mark sports gambling in America

(43:55):
outside of Vegas, for instance. They're gonna be a ton
of people looking down at their phones, come Jelly, who
suddenly have the ability to bet on I I don't
know every track and field event known demand. Will this
be something that you dive into? And how do you
expect gambling in terms of popularity to work? Not to mention,
and this is kind of funny in and of itself.
With the time differential, you'll probably have knuckleheads pulling out

(44:17):
their phone trying to bet on things that have already happened,
which is kind of funny to think about as well. Yeah,
I'll dabble a little bit. I won't claim to do
a whole heck of a lot when it comes to
some of the track and field events. Clearly basketball lends
itself a little bit better to a wagering standpoint, but
you're right, the times differences are going to create a
real wrinkle for people that are looking to bet these
things when they're watching the events unfold in primetime knowing

(44:39):
that they've been over for ten to twelve hours. So,
in my opinion, I think some of the enthusiasm that
any of these operators will have in as it pertains
to betting handle on the Olympics should be tempered just
because the time zones where if you were talking about
an Olympics in Atlanta or somewhere in North America, much
different story, because you know when the basketball game is
gonna tip and you had fifteen or twenty minutes to

(45:00):
get your bed in, whereas people aren't going to be
nearly as in tune late in the summer trying to
figure out exactly when the four A is going to
go at three uh in the afternoon in Tokyo time,
which may be an ungodly hour of the day here
state site. It is kind of wild to think about,
isn't it? Because you remember as somebody who was obviously
a big sports fan, but I was working i think
a dead Spin during the two thousand and eight Summer Olympics,

(45:24):
and if I remember correctly, those took place in Beijing,
if I'm remembering again correctly, and the way that we
handled it at dead Spin was we held the results until,
you know, because they were airing twelve hours later, as
you just mentioned, based on the fact that they were
going on in Beijing, and the internet was popular in
two thousand and eight, and I'm not pretending that it wasn't,

(45:44):
but social media hadn't really taken off. I'm curious how
much of the storylines of the Olympics are going to
still matter when every result is discussed in real time
on social media. I think change, and it's changed quite
a bit over the years for just the reasons there
that you mentioned. People have access to it. NBC will

(46:06):
offer plenty of live streams, and while some of the
best content they'll try and hold back for prime time.
It's an event now in the modern world that when
you're talking about a twelve hour time difference to a
lot of spots in the States that it doesn't have
that same appeal because people do know the results those bets,
if they happen to have wagered on them, will get
graded well in advance. Uh. And it takes away a
little bit of that luster in the magic where you

(46:28):
all would tune in on primetime not knowing the results
of you know, men's and women's gymnastics, or figure skating
or some of the higher profile events that typically bring
in massive numbers as far as TV ratings are concerned.
I started off the show talking about my wild idea.
I'm curious what you think about this wild idea. What
do you think the packer response would be if the
Texans called them and said will try And I'm not

(46:51):
saying Aaron Rodgers would do it, but if they said,
we'll trade you Deshaun Watson for Aaron Rodgers. Straight up,
I think when you talk at out a franchise like
Green Bay, that they're not going to get themselves tangled
into that web. And if you believe that Jordan's love
is the quarterback of the future and the reason you
use first round draft capital on him last year, you

(47:12):
have to kind of let him develop it, and I
don't think you get yourself into the will he or
won't he be available in Deshaun Watson, So you probably
have to turn that down. Whereas if you're a Green
Bay and Denver offers you three number one picks and
a couple of players that you can plug in right away,
I think that provides a much more attractive draft package.
Good stuff is always Todd Ferman, I will see you
later this afternoon on our television program. Thanks for wringing.

(47:34):
That was a pleasure, my good man. This is outkicked
the coverage with Clay Traffics. It is time for Petro's
Papadakis at the Old Po on Twitter a m l
A Sports with the Petros and Money Show. We were
just talking about the open of our three. One of

(47:56):
the biggest stories coming out of the NFL Draft, Aaron Rodgers.
Do you have a strong opinion one way or the
other on the Aaron Rodgers situation at all? Do you
find yourself thinking, hey, I understand where Aaron Rodgers is
coming from. This is a ridiculous kind of situation that
the Packers have put him in with drafting Jordan's love
or do you find yourself like Aaron Rodgers a lot

(48:18):
of drama. I think he should just shut up and
complete his contract. Well, I'm much more leaning towards the
ladder on Aaron Rodgers. And one of my favorite people
that I ever played with was Carson Palmer, and he
was just like he was built to be a quarterback

(48:39):
and a leader, and he had a lot of ups
and downs when I played with him at USC, not personally,
just on the field. He threw a lot of pics
and kind of wasn't living up to all the hype
to a certain degree until Norm Chow got a hold
of him and he want to Hisman Trophy in two
thousand two and then was the number one pick and

(49:02):
all that. But I always just admired him for what
a great teammate he was, how he took criticism, what
a tough guy he was taking hits. He was always
the same in the huddle. And I've always kind of
washed Carson's balls to a certain degree whenever anybody asked
about him, because he was a big recruit and he

(49:25):
played his ass off and he competed his ass off,
and he worked his ass off, and he cared. But
that stuff he pulled in Cincinnati. Wasn't cool and I
didn't know him. I wasn't very close with him at
that time, really close with him at all after college.
And I know that Cincinnati is supposed to be a

(49:47):
dysfunctional pro football team. And I'm not just dismissing that.
But you said the word right there. You just said
it contract, and you signed a contract. You know what
the people are like that you signed with. You've been
there a long time, you know what the place is like.
You signed the contract, and he took their money and

(50:07):
then he had a giant kind of temper tantrum. I
guess would be kind of a mean way to say it,
but that's what Aaron Rodgers did. To contact all the
people in the media, tell them how unhappy you are,
spray it across social media. Aaron was even worse because
he did it on the draft vindictively, to take over

(50:29):
the draft and a bunch of young people having the
day of their life. And what a vindictive, kind of
selfish and self centered thing to do to a bunch
of people that have nothing to do with you or
Green Bay or who they drafted last year. Who cares?
And it's a terrible look. There's no doubt about it.

(50:52):
Like at least Carson didn't try to take over the draft.
You just tried to get the hell out of Cincinnati.
And I think they had more success than when when
he left and went to the Raiders and didn't have
a lot of success there, and that had a bit
of a renaissance in Arizona. And I mean, far be
it for me to criticize, but I'm just using the
example because I'm paid to criticize that. It just doesn't

(51:14):
work like that in football. It's two fleeting of a thing,
you know, the same as the Russell Wilson situation. Like
I don't care what Russell Wilson says or does. He
seems like the biggest bildo on earth, Like he's a dork.
He's a great football player, but everything he does he
seems like a dork. He uses a different accent every
time he talks, like he's a weird dude. But it

(51:37):
doesn't matter, None of it matters. Until he said he
went on the show that follows you in most markets,
Dan Patrick Show, and he said, while these other guys
on the team, you know, my legacy and this and that,
and look, football is a live bullets game that ruins
your body and you see a lot of really gnarly,

(51:58):
nasty things, and in a perfect world that probably wouldn't exist.
I promise you not one of those guys out there
playing this game to make a living in a very
dangerous situation and being what paid well for it. They're
not worried about your legacy and that kind of self
absorption that we see in the NBA and sort of
just take for granted now in the NBA where now

(52:21):
we don't even blink our eyes anymore at some of
this massive uh, I don't know what you'd call it
vanity from a lot of these players, were you just
it just doesn't fly in football in the same way
because there's too many guys out there and they're they're
too much at risk, and your success is so fleeting.

(52:42):
So it's a long answer, but there's an old example
where Carson I thought, really screwed up and kind of
screwed up his legacy, so to speak. In Cincinnati. There's
a situation with Aaron Rodgers, and then there's earlier in
the year with Russell Wilson talking about his legacy on
sports radio before he's done playing what an idiot we're

(53:05):
talking to petros public. It is kind of fascinating, right um,
to think about how exactly and he went to the
Kentucky Derby. And again, I think the big part of
the story here that we've talked about as well, he
made the choice to go public with this story on
the day of the NFL Draft, and people can say, well,
he didn't talk to like his agents. They don't make
this choice. This has been playing out for weeks now,

(53:27):
and he decided to get maximum attention here. It doesn't matter.
You can be a Hollywood guy and be married to
a famous person and talk to everybody in the media
whatever you want, or get whatever kind of attention you want,
and be Tom Brady and be a great teammate. Right
Aaron Rodgers, he didn't seem that way to me. You know,

(53:49):
he seems like a guy who's never happy with anything.
And it's football. It's a terrible, imperfect thing. It's like
a rock fight, Like how do you screw up a
rock fight? I mean, I know that every every football
player you ever talked to. Clay You can get Joe
Montana on and give him true serum and he's going
to tell you he got aft along the way at

(54:12):
every place he's ever been. That's all of us, no
matter what level you finished on, if you played a
higher level of football, you know of the time you
feel like he got screwed or or fft in one
way or another. To go public with it and have
your agent called Schefter and Glazer during the draft, that's
gonna be hard to live down. I mean, that's a

(54:32):
that was a really ugly look, and I hope people
don't forget it when he has another Hollywood girlfriend or
when he and this one break up. We're talking to
Petros Badegas. All right. The other big news I would
say is the Lakers. Lebron James has come back. They
have lost their first two games. Uh, he's not He
didn't play last night. Anthony Davis hasn't looked great. How
much discussion about the Lakers is there in l A

(54:55):
And do you believe that this talk about the play
in series and everything else? Are the Lakers in trouble
as a as a title contender in your mind? Well,
I mean I'm no basketball analysts, but join the club. Yes, yeah,
our basketball analysts have said, you know, because we you know,
you basically asked the same question about the Lakers to

(55:16):
everybody for uh, for the last few weeks, if not months,
which is, you know, one of these guys coming back,
will they be ready for the playoffs? And everybody says
the same thing. They say, well, yeah, you know, as
long as they get back in time so they don't
have to go to that plan. It's like, well, okay,
well now potentially yeah. Yeah, they're staring the plan in

(55:38):
the face and Lebron is starting to bitch about it,
which is funny because, by the way, to Lebron's credit,
that Dallas Mavericks did the same things. Everybody likes the
idea of a play in when they think they don't
have to play in it, and as soon as they do,
they're like white, whoever came up with this idea? You know,
like yeah, this this is horrible? Right, So that's uh
that I expect that to make a little bit of news.

(56:00):
But I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be telling you
the truth if I didn't tell you that. Interest has
waned in the NBA considerately, even in this town where
the Lakers are a gigantic brand, which is not to
say there's still people that are in love with the Lakers.
But first of all, like we had to read the
rules to go to a game at Staples Center on

(56:21):
air because we do Clipper stuff, I guess, And I mean,
I mean the thought that anybody would want to go
through that, let alone pay to go through that, and
to go to like a designating roped off eating area
where you stand like a sheep and eat as quickly
as you can so you can get bad. I mean,
it's just it's not a fun environment. It's not worth it,

(56:45):
you know, It's just it doesn't seem worth it, and
it doesn't seem like I mean, things could change, and
the playoffs could change, and Lebron could I don't know,
but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest,
and I do believe that there are a lot of
people pretty turned off by it at this point. The
other thing going on in town is that the Dodgers
are struggling and had been struggling much more than people

(57:08):
foun And yes it's April, but it's pretty clear that
they're not the same baseball team that one that shortened season.
So you got both these teams at one last year
under very odd circumstances. I mean, the Dodgers played every
World Series game and most of the playoffs in Texas,
I think, and uh, and you have them trying to
repeat as favorites, and right now, neither of them are

(57:31):
living up the expectations, kind of treading water and thinking, yeah,
you know, it is interesting in in that respect and
the other This is a big question for you. And
I know you're not a huge fan of social media
in general, but I was just talking about this to
start off the show. If social media didn't exist, right,
if we were like, let's say, social media isn't going
to be invented in the way that it exists now

(57:53):
until right and Lebron has already finished his career and
he plays for most of his career the same sort
of rough environment that Jordans did. Is Lebron more or
less popular because of social media? In your mind and
in a bigger picture of the question that I was
asking to start off the third hour the program is
how many stars out there? I don't mean like role players,

(58:16):
I don't mean like side actors, you know, like, for instance,
us in media. I think social media can in many
ways help us. Certainly it's helped me, but it also
can come with its downsides, but in general, um, how
would you say that social media has impacted Lebron james
popularity has fifty million Twitter followers, however many that he

(58:36):
has on Instagram as well to people like him more
or less than if he didn't have social media at all.
It really is since you've been explaining it. I thought
the answer was really easy when you first started asking it,
But I don't think it's I think it's a really
complex answer, and I think it really can be applied
to all of us to a certain degree. Right, social

(58:59):
media exposes you to a lot more people then you
would normally be explore, exposes some form of you write
some of your opinion, what you want to write down
on Twitter, or whatever pictures you want to put up
at some some arm of of of your being. Social
media exposes you to a lot more people than you

(59:24):
would you would normally be exposed to. And so it's
not only an opportunity for a lot more people to
like you and a lot more people to revere you,
but it's also an opportunity for a lot more people
to hate you. So and and it's such a polarizing
place that we you know, social media like you said
that I use it, and obviously I remember you using

(59:46):
it when I first met you, you know, twelve I
mean two thousand, twelve, eight eight nine years ago I
met you and you were attached to Twitter, and I
understood it to a certain degree, and I understood it
as important and growing. Uh. But also it's a place
for kind of like it's a lighter, fair type of
place for me, because it's a place that forces you

(01:00:08):
to one side or the other. You know, you're not
allowed to go on to social media and say, hey,
Lebron is a great basketball player. But you know, some
of this stuff is not cool, you know, like no
one's gonna be happy with you. People like if you
try to come up with the least the least hot
take comment whatever it might be, right, like the most

(01:00:29):
lukewarm comment that you could have, uh, not a pro
or con. It's the same thing, by the way, with
for instance, like reviews on the internet, everything is either
a one star or a five star. Right, especially in
our business, people either like man, I love that guy,
or they're like man I hate that guy. Almost never,
but almost no one would be like, yeah, I give

(01:00:49):
him a two and a half to three and a half.
He's pretty much just totally average. I don't really have
a strong opinion one or the other. Social media what
works is strong opinions one way or the other. And well,
you also have to think about it like this, think
about it in the context of what we do the
lowest rung of the world of entertainment, sports talk radio.
Just this what we're doing right now. When we were younger,

(01:01:12):
when there was no social media. Frankly, when I started
in the business, it just started to turn and thank god,
we weren't people allowed to have strong opinions or be
entertaining or have a lot of fun because that wasn't
our role. Our role was to be informational. The role
was to tell people if Lebron was going to play tonight,
because that information wasn't available to everybody on everybody's phone.

(01:01:35):
Now on the radio, you don't know anything that everybody
else doesn't know. In the moment. It's it's very rare
that there's even breaking news on this show, and we
have to break out the breaking news sounder. Like almost
doing the show five years, I think we've legitimately had
breaking news that changes what we would talk about, like
four or five times in five years, but basically once

(01:01:57):
and your time slots a little bit different, but it
almost never happened. It's not different in a lot of ways, Clay,
because so many people podcast shows like well, I didn't
hear the show live, but it doesn't stop me from
listening to it in beautiful clear sound on I Heart Radio.
So it doesn't really matter if you had, you know,

(01:02:17):
what time you call the listener Rocker Bueller wasn't going
to play because I mean an overwhelming amount of the
listeners are listening at their convenience, sometimes two weeks later,
be entertaining and speak your your most honest freaking show,
you know, and the most fun you can have. Is

(01:02:38):
is the best way to do it, you know now
because it's morphed, but with Lebron James or people like that,
like the more you put yourself out there publicly and
touched these hot topics as an athlete or somebody you know,
an actor or somebody like that, you you, I mean,

(01:02:58):
you're going to expose yourself to a whole country of people,
and maybe half of those people are gonna like you,
where none of them would have known you, but now
half of them like you, and half of them hate you.
You know. That's why kind of point, like, I understand
it for purposes of guys who are on the periphery.
Like if you're an offensive lineman right on a football
team and you're witty and you're funny and you're good

(01:03:19):
at social media, I can understand the benefit of being
active because people might not have known you otherwise you
were on that periphery. But you know, Peyton Manning and
Michael Jordan are pretty big names. They've never needed social
media in order to be big names. They still don't
have it, And I wonder on some level for Lebron
whether the guys of that ilk, that magnitude would be

(01:03:40):
more popular without it. Now. I do think Tom Brady
in the last couple of years has started using social
media pretty well and made himself a little bit more
likable than he might otherwise be because he seems so inaccessible,
and when he's drunk and he puts out like a
funny tweet afterwards, it makes him seem more likable. But
I am just kind of fascinated by how quickly the

(01:04:00):
universe in which we live in the world of sports
has changed. In general, it is uh, It is wild
because you'd never think like, wow, I want to go
watch Lebron James, uh, and then way, maybe I don't
because you know, he kind of bugged me with what
he said a couple of weeks ago. Like you know,
that's that's going through more people's minds than you know.

(01:04:23):
You'd say, well, I don't like Michael Jordan because he
beat my sons, you know, Uh, he beat my Sonics
or Trailblazers or Lakers or whatever. Uh. It's it's it's
a lot different, and it's I think it is. It's
a problem for the NBA obviously, and it's something uh
that they need to address, but everybody has to like
kind of come to terms with it in their league.

(01:04:45):
And it's the long in football. I've made this point
for a long time. Figure it out in your collective
bartaining bargaining agreement. Figure out what is a proper form
of protest and how you want to handle this new
polit eical climate that we're in that will satisfy the owners,
the sponsors, all your social justice people and then your

(01:05:07):
normal sort of fans. And I don't know if you
can do that. You know, that's gonna be a tall order.
But they're gonna have to figure it out because right
now and we're kind of in a no man's land,
and I think a lot of different platforms are suffering
because of it. We've we've alienated each other so much
that basically a lot of people can't even stand a

(01:05:28):
look at each other. Yeah, there's no doubt quickly who's
more popular in l A right now, Lebron James or
Kobe Bryant. Oh, Kobe Bryant. Kobe felt like he was,
you know, two people here in l A. Kobe, we
don't for all his warts and zits, and you know,
many of them have just been forgotten and forgiven because

(01:05:50):
of the horrible tragic way that he and his daughter
and and uh many others died and that's kind of
been erased from memory, especially locally. Kobe, for whatever he was,
he felt like he was the city's So Lebron James
could be here for another ten years and that wouldn't

(01:06:10):
change