December 2, 2024 • 42 mins
Today on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, ‘The Game’ steals the show this weekend despite sloppy play and Penn State secures a spot in the Big Ten Championship. Josh Allen secures the MVP over Saquon Barkley. And the guys agree it was a dirty hit from Azeez Al-Shaair on Trevor Lawrence.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar Airings, rading Win and Jonas Knox on radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I gotta tell you, man college football this weekend, in particular,
what happened in Columbus. No offense to anybody listening in
Columbus right now, that was wonderful television.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Oh man, that was riveting. No offense would be an offense?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Was it wonderful?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Though?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I mean, my perspective obviously is different because.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
I was down there in the field for it, and
the second half there's only three points scored. So the
thought in my head was, I wonder if this is
really entertaining for people to watch. I mean, LeVar, you're
a defensive guy, so maybe you're like, man, that's a
good defense.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
There are some moments where.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
You're like, yeah, that's probably true, but then you're like,
just bad offense. That being said, though, what I thought
was most entertaining or interesting being there, And I don't know, LeVar,
if you can relate to this or Jonas when you've
been to you know, different games where you felt this.
(01:11):
But the second half it felt like even that home
field crowd almost turned And it was probably because that
two minute drive before half when Ohio State kind of
just went.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
On bing bing bing bing bing touchdown.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
It was like, yeah, there, it is like just do that, Like,
just just throw to the best wide receiver corps in
college football and then it's a big mismatch. They're not
gonna be able to stop you if you want a
two minute drive like that, right, you didn't see it
the rest of the second half. And that's obviously one of
the many questions I think Buckey's fans have is why
do you keep trying to run between the tackles against
(01:48):
a team that's got probably two first round picks in
Kenneth Grand Mason Graham head scratcher. How do you only
get Jeremiah Smith, who would probably be a top five
pick and this year's draft was seven targets, They had
five catches. He also drew two defensive pass interferences, so
tack on another thirty yards for whatever that was, Like,
(02:09):
how do you not get him more involved in the
game plan? And maybe it's because they lost trust in
their quarterback, you know, maybe had everything to do with that.
And if that's the case, I would argue, then for you,
you don't have the right guy in there in the
first place. And I said this way back in the spring,
the most talented quarterbacks in that Ohio State team are
guys who are freshmen. It's Julian Sand and Hair Nolan,
(02:32):
and none of those guys's going to sniff the field.
And now here we are with an Ohio State team
with now two losses, still playing the playoff. But I
would imagine if either one of Air Nolan or Julian
Sand would have started this season for the Buckeyes, probably
would still be at a minimum the same spot, if
not maybe a little bit better. And especially the future
(02:52):
looks a little bit brighter because you have a younger
guy who's gonna be doing it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
But that's for another time another day.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
I just felt like it felt like the crowd turned,
and that's what I wanted to get to, is like
you could feel it. You could feel the frustration. You
could feel this, Oh no, here it go, here we
go again for a.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Fourth straight year.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I don't know if you guys felt that, well, I
was gonna ask you, like, I don't know if you
could feel that on television. You could feel it in
the stadium, and it was almost like Michigan just had
to kind of keep doing what they've been doing the
last four years and they were gonna come.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Away with a win. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
When I was watching it, I just I came to
the conclusion, I can relate to this because I lost
to Michigan every single year. I can't relate to it
on the level that that Ohio State you know what
they're dealing with, but somewhat, And I was talking. I
was talking to a couple guys because I was in
(03:48):
I was in state college while we were watching it.
And you know the idea that coaches get nervous or
they pucker up, and they don't want to make mistakes.
They don't want to have a mistake that costs the game.
They don't want to be in a situation where it
was like that was the play right there?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Why did you call that?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And And I think teams coaches fall into and in
this game in particular, I think that that Ohio State
they fell into the trap of what Penn State falls
into when they play Michigan in Ohio State, which is
I think there there has now become an inferiority complex
(04:32):
going into the Michigan game. If you're an Ohio State
player or an Ohio State coach. More specifically, if you're
not going to be aggressive in the biggest games of
the year, what is it all about, Like, let it
all hang out. If you're going to make a mistake,
make a mistake. If the kid's not going to be
(04:52):
able to deliver it, let him show he's not going
to deliver it. Don't make don't try to mitigate any
type of mistakes that could ta place a turnover, Oh
my gosh, a turnover. Whatever it is that you're thinking
when you go into such a conservative approach to what
you're doing, don't do it like fight against it.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I see it.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I see it every single year. The one thing that
I came away with when Penn State played Ohio State
is like, we did not push the ball downfield. It
was it was way too it was way too conservative
of an approach to what you're doing. And then it
ultimately allows for a team to basically find a comfort
(05:34):
zone in how they want to play against you. And
that's what I saw take place. And the longer they
allowed Michigan to stay close, and the closer that game was,
the further got into it. I was like, Man, Michigan's
going to win. This game, Michigan is going to that.
They started running the ball pretty effectively, probably a little
bit more effectively than I've seen against Ohio State this season.
(05:57):
And an Ohio State wasn't. They weren't stressing Michigan's defense out.
They just weren't. They allowed Michigan's defense to find a rhythm,
to find the comfort zone, and then once that happened,
they found the confidence. And what took place, I think
it's more of a mental emotional game that we saw
(06:17):
take place against those two teams versus a real matchup game.
Let it hang out. Why y'all nervous? You got you
have the players, you have the coach, you got Chip
Kelly call in the place. What are y'all getting so
conservative for? It's just it's strange to me, And I
wonder because I asked this question. I was like, do
(06:40):
when you have an offensive coordinator, does the head coach?
How much does the head coach dictate what plays are
being called? Because that could be that could be a
major part of it.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean the interesting thing about the play calling,
and I guess my frustration with it it is like
the sun Zoo, you know, the art of War. For
anyone who's read it right, like fight them where they're not.
And it's like, why would you why do you keep
trying to bang out with your patched up offensive line
versus again, two first round picks, a team that has
been constructed to beat you, like they're constructed to be
(07:14):
able to run the football, stop the run, because that's
what's one of this rivalry. Yet you're like stubbornly pounding
your head against the ball, oh the wall, trying to
do this. And so it goes back to you know, well,
Chip Kelly was the mentor to Ryan Day, and they
both probably have similar thought. But at some point you
have to say, we paid and brought in a transfer
(07:36):
quarterback and they must have lost confidence. They must have
lost faith in him. I mean, I'll be honest too.
The last two drives I saw him in he looked nervous.
It looked like and here's the thing, is like, at
some point time when I was probably a true freshman,
like people probably looked at me and felt that way.
You know, you get in those situations. And I was
(07:58):
thinking back to you will have to Day's Kansas State,
and I couldn't really think of like a memorable two
minute drive or something where he was able to bring
them back, and I thought, like, this is going to
be really tough for him in this moment if he
doesn't have a bunch of things to hang his hat on.
I mean, for people who don't know that, the history
and the road of Will Howard, you know, started early,
got the play probably before he was ready, but played
(08:20):
well enough where it might be gave him more of
an opportunity. And then it was a combination of guys
coming in who replaced him where he didn't get to
play quite as much. Adrian Martinez, for example, was.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
One of them.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
And you know, I think Will Howard's used how Adrian
came to Kansas State in regards to how he approached
going to Ohio State. But one of the reasons why
he left Kansas State was because they went to play
Avery Johnson, the quarterback who's there now, that was who
was going to be the starter for Kansas State this season,
even if Will Howard came back.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
So think about that.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
I also think that when you think about kids who
and you're young men who go to some of these
other schools, when you're playing at Kansas State, it doesn't
feel this when you're playing for Ohio State. I knew
it might be staying in the obvious for some, but
I want to drive home this point because I do
see instances where we see quarterbacks on these bigger stages
and they don't know how to handle they don't know
(09:13):
how to approach it, and they do look nervous and
they don't play as well in those big moments.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And part of that's.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Because when they when they chose to go to Kansas State,
you know, the magnitude of some of the games are playing,
We're never going to be as big unless they found
their way somewhere else. And once you go to those
other places, it's an entirely different feel. It's entirely different
challenge for you as a quarterback. I think that plays
(09:39):
a role too for a lot of these guys who
you know, didn't necessarily pick to go there.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
They haven't played big games like this before, a rivalry
like this.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I mean no disrespect to Kansas, Kansas State not as
big of a rivaly, not just no, it's not even close.
So I think that plays a role too, where once
you get into it, then it's like, oh, oh s, yeah,
this is a lot bigger than I've ever felt before
my life, and in those moments, it's like you can't
(10:07):
become overwhelmed by it. But I think I was most
What disappoints me the most about the outcome of the game,
not because like I kind of, you know, predicted of
how State to win. It's more of the fact that
because I thought Michigan was gonna score about ten or
thirteen points, that's what I thought. I just thought of
how State would go to score more. And to me,
(10:28):
it's wasted talent. You have all this talent. You have
all these guys like Jack Sawyer and j. T. Tuymol
Law and Denzel Burke and all these players who could
have went to the draft who came back for it.
And if I'm a defensive player, I'm frustrated. And that's
why I think. You saw Jack Sawyer with the flag
after the game, so they're not planning it and everything else.
And you know, he did everything he could when he
(10:49):
was on the field, but the reality is you had
sixty minutes on the field to do your part and
once that's over, man like it's it's tough to hear this,
but it's their moment.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Now, you should have had that fight. Don't let them
plant that flag. You should have had enough flight, enough
fight in you and listen. It's probably going to get outlawed,
it's going to get banned from from college sports like
you're not going to be. There's going to be something
that's done moving forward.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Did anybody successfully get it in the ground or it's
not about success, You're never going to.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
No, it's not. Actually it's not. It's not dumb.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
You've planted your flag in their field. It's the it's
the action of it. It's not it's not the literal
sense of it, Jonas, it's the act.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Now we DECI I need to see it in the
turf standing up there. That's we're playing golf. Otherwise it
doesn't count. All right, I'll leave that one alone. That's
that's crazy to me.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It's the act of we took we We walked in
your trap and we took over your trap. We came
into your house with with some used up ankle tape,
a jockstrap on, some some some wrist tape.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Didn't wipe off our eye.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Black, no towel, no nothing, just your midnight package out
and we're going to your refrigerator. We're gonna get some food. Oh,
there's some kool aid right there. We're gonna drink that
kool aid. What what is that right there? That's what's that?
I don't know what it is, but we're going to
eat that up. Where's Oh, there's the microwave right there.
Oh yeah, there's Yeah, you want to heat up the stove.
(12:32):
Let's heat up the stove. It looks like there's some
some good leftovers. And there were checked to check the freezer.
They walked into your house. They walked into your house
and did what they wanted to do. That's the idea
of it, if you're looking at it from from like
you know, football is generally connected to military. It's connected
(12:55):
to to how that that works, game planning, coming in, deploying,
doing what you need to do, executing game plan missions,
those different things. And when Michigan won, Michigan basically said
we've conquered the horseshoe and now we're putting our flag
in the ground. This is Michigan's place. Now this is
(13:18):
ann arbor. Uh Ohio.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I'm telling you, man, that was if you just went
drive chart in the second half, I mean, it's terrible.
It's you know, punt interception, interception, miss field goal intert
like you just like looked at that and you say, oh,
this is an ugly gets not good. The part, the
part I enjoyed about it was that as the game
went on, a story was being told, and the story was, Oh, God,
(13:44):
Michigan is okay with what the situation is. They're okay
with the circumstances and the pressure, and Ohio States now lose.
You could feel it watching television that that play is
starting to tighten up, Like you could feel the crowd,
you could feel the energy. It was just beautifully done
(14:05):
by Michigan to go into that place and to take
that from them, because look, let's be honest here, they
were over a three touchdown favorite. Ohio State was going
into the game. People looked at this as a coronation. Oh,
you know, we're going to get our opportunity, like Michigan's
going to get their come up ins.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Their Ohio rematch against Oregon.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And then to Brady's point, this is the part when
I thought, oh, something's going on here. When Ohio State
goes down before halftime and scores, I think the feeling
was easy quickly all right, like this this is big.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
This is going to go quickly.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And they get the ball to start the second half,
they're driving and then they punt it. When they came
away with no points to start the second half, I thought,
oh no, man, like that fan base is probably thinking
of themselves. Wait a second, it should be so much
easier than this. What's going on? And then it felt
like the panics started to set in.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
It was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Well, like you say, because they changed the play calling,
they changed they should have tempoed Michigan right on back
to Michigan.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Dude, spread them out and and not and maybe make
sense some tempo, but spread them mount and throw the
football fifty times. People are like, that's for that, Well, well,
he's known for a lot of, you know, different types
of scheme. I think that's the impression of Chip Kelly.
But if you go through his years, even had Oregon
and Philly and all that, like, he runs the ball too,
(15:26):
I mean, and even during his time in UCLA most recently,
that means almost stubbornly.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
And so I think here's here's what Michigan's defensive style was.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
If you go back to the first half and you
look at the scoring drives, for Ohio State or even
or I should say it attempts to because obviously the
field goal kicking was atrocious. Nine plays at a field goal,
ten plays miss field goal, nine plays touchdown like that's
that's what it was. So Michigan very clearly wasn't playing
(15:59):
necessarily bend but break. But they oftentimes doubled Jeremiah Smith,
which Ohio State was fine with, just letting them sit
in the same spot and be doubled, and they really
didn't want to let anyone get by them, and if
they did, they just grabbed them and it was a
defensive pi like which what happened twice on Jeremiah Smith.
And so they were very intent on making Ohio State
(16:19):
earn it the long hard way, and they knew at
some point they would falter. They knew at some point
there'd be a miskick, or they'd throw an interception or
be it turnover un downs or be a punt like.
That was essentially what the game plan was, and they
knew by doing that they would lengthen the game and
it would play to their advantage because it's less touches
(16:40):
for those playmakers to get. Even though Ohio State essentially
took some of those playmakers out of you know, out
of the game in their own way by not targeting
them or get them the football enough.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So that was part of that.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
I think the crazy thing is Michigan scored ten points
in the first half and this is what.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Those plays looked like.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Those drives look like six total plays five yards and
they got a touchdown and a field goal out of that.
Think about that for a second. How frustrating you have
to be as a defense.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Now.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I'm not saying that Michigan didn't find their way in
the second half of running the football where they clearly
outrushed Ohio State. The debate of Ryan Day teams and
if they're physical enough and tough. I mean, the one
thing that became very apparent to me before the game
on the field, and I'd said this. I don't know
if I've said this on our show, but back in
twenty twenty one, when Michigan and really Jim Harball was
(17:33):
having a hard time beating Ohio State, I was there
in ann Arbor and I remember watching that team come
out of the tunnel and looking at their demeanor and
I'm like, this is different. It's not like the weight
of the world is on them, and they look to
me like they're about ready to get in a fight
and whoop someone's ass. That's what it looked like. And
(17:56):
for the last four years now, that is the same
look their O line, their D line has had the
entire time. They go out and warm ups, they bang
around a little bit, and when you compare it to
Ohio State, it doesn't look anything close. It's like I
almost feel like like Michigan has been like hardened over
(18:18):
the last four years, where Ohio State in some ways
has been running a program that is elite and is
this and it's that, but it's like not gritty, it's
not where they're like scrapping and tough. I mean, I
talked to a couple of the coaches. They were kind
of coming out in second half, and I was just
kind of like, what's.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
The sense of urgency? Like this game.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Shouldn't even be close, shouldn't even be close, Like you
could just beat the crap out of Indiana, who struggled
with Michigan but still beat Michigan.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Like this game shouldn't even be close.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
And there was just no sense of urgency and there's
no sense of having that same physicality and toughness that
Michigan has. That's really the difference. Michigan's program. Their football
program is just a tougher, more physical program, and they're
gonna make it ugly and they're gonna fight you, and
(19:15):
at least.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Versus Ohio State, they're gonna find a way winning. Yeah,
that's great, man, it was great. It was great. It
was a great. Question amazing.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
The question becomes, what do you do now if you're
a high of state With Ryan Day? It's good. Well,
like he has been. He's sixty six and ten in
six seasons. He coming into it, no one had won
more games in the last fifty years in their first
seventy five games than Chris Peterson and Ryan Day and
(19:45):
college football, I think about that the last five decades.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
And unfortunately, of.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
His ten losses, forty percent or four of those have
come to Michigan, the team up north.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
That's crazy, man, It's it's nuts.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
And if and if you look at like a lot
of losses, this is this is the most painful because
it's the largest upset in the Ohio State Michigan rivalry.
And on top of that, it's it's one in which
like it wasn't one of those top five matchups which
we've seen in years past, and so it's a little
harder to swallow. Like LeVar and you said, like, well,
I relate, you know, with you know, being a Penn
(20:20):
State Michigan I beat him. I can relate to a degree.
When I was playing USC, here's the difference. You wousc
maybe lost a total of what four games the entire
four years I was at Notre Dame, Like, that's how
good that program was. They actually were going for a
three peep for my freshman year to my junior year.
And so we can talk about that rivalry and that
debate and everyone's like, oh, it's a big win. I'm like,
(20:41):
well it was. It was a scary win because outside
of two pick six is that's an even ball game,
Like if we really want to be real about it.
But it's tough, man. It's tough to have to come
back and then you leave and you don't end up
beating that team. But even more disappointing this year because
I think this Ohio State team feels like they're one
of the most talented teams and they are. They are,
(21:02):
and I thought their coaching staff did not do them
at least offensively defensively. You can't blame Jim Knowles and
what they did. I thought they did. He did a
tremendous job. It was more about offensively letting down that
side of the ball.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Mm.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, well listen, congratulations to uh we are Yeah, yeah,
we get it. We get a shot a shift.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Hey, and that's not Ohio State or Michigan, So don't
be shocked if we beat the hell out of them.
Don't be shocked. I'm just telling y'all, it's not Ohio
State and it's not Michigan. We don't have we don't
have mental blocks against anybody else.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
There you go. I'm just being honest. I was so happy.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm like, all right, we ain't got to play Ohio
State or Michigan and the Big Ten champions.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
What's that? Are you gonna go to Indianapolis for? I
don't know what you mean what? It was too cold?
This game was too cold. I don't want to. Yeah,
but there's always the I gotta walk to the place. No,
you can walk under yeah, you can walk under ground.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
No, let's see, the last time I went, I was
outside and I was walking and I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It was so cold this weekend there. I didn't I
just yeah, man, I know, I'm thinking about having.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
All the time.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
It's a beautiful venue and they do such a good job.
I'll say this about the Big Ten for that matchup.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
It feels really, really big.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
It's awesome, like the Big Ten does a tremendous job
with the presentation of the Big Ten Championships. So if
you're thinking about going, I would go. I'm telling you
will not regret it. Give you some good stakes.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I've gone. I just I don't you know, I don't know. Well,
if you win, it's been eight year, it's.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Been a while.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I went to another one though. I went to I
went to another one not too long ago. I think
you should go in twenty two too. I went in
twenty two.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
I don't know. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
A lot does Christmas music stress out so badly? Man?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It stresses those gifts man bro four chicks. Four, that's tough.
Sons are easy. Sons are like a dad, like whatever.
I prefer to call them women, but well they're mine,
so I call them chicks if I want to, well,
Kat Williams call them.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
I don't know, that's probably not good. Jim. I don't know, Jim,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
You guys know how we were talking about who's going
to win the m v P and people throwing out
Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yep, yeah, we were talking about it.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's over, Josh Allen will be your m VP.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
He had his showtime performance last night. Uh, kind of
lateral from Amari Cooper scored a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
That that ended it. The lateral lateral for the touchdown
that was it.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, you need that moment, you need that state age,
you need the snow flurries.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
And if you're mean they clenched.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
The division last night about that, it's over there. They're
they're the top the division. They'll host a home playoff
game at a minimum right now.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I mean I'm not opposed to that. I'm not
going to say he he clinched it. I'm not going
to say it's over. I mean, Philly is on on
a run right now, and you know Saquon is being Saquon.
He did run for over one hundred he did have
a very timely touchdown now granted, and I mean, I'm
(24:34):
sure we'll talk about that game. You know, they're they're
a field goal kicker, which you would never think you'd
have to say that for Baltimore, but they were a
field goal kicker away from winning that game.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Unbelievable, you're like, But nonetheless, the fact that you're going
to sit here and try and diminish what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
No, I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
When one of your home away from home is Shyenne, Wyoming,
And I like I Josh Allen, I would like him,
and you're gonna try and take this away from him.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I like him as well.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I'm gonna take it away because I don't think he's
even close to Lamar Jackson. Bro, statistically speak, why are
you just giving it away to Josh Allen because they
won last night in prime time?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Yes, in the snow. What's interesting is is that moment
dude Baltimore throwing for over three thousand yards so far,
he's dealing, Bro, and.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
He's thrown nine more touchdown passes this year, he leads
the league, Like, what.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Do you mean?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, but if finished them drives off, if Lamar Jackson
would get into better position on the field justin Tucker
wouldn't have to settle for those long field goals and
miss those. So because of that, by default, I'm gonna
go with Josh Allen here.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
And there's a decent chance Lamar is gonna pass for
close to because what they like five games left is
that right?
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Ah?
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Yeah, five games left, he's gonna throw for over four
thousand yards.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
He's gonna sniff.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
A thousand rushing because I think what's now six hundred,
so maybe he gets like over like eight hundred.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
I mean, it's it's just ridiculous, Like I don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Look, I realized he won it last year. I realize
he's won it enough now where people might be saying,
we can't give it to him again. Yeah you can
when he's that much. They're a playoff team. They might
not win the division with the way Pittsburgh's playing right now,
but you can still give it to Lamar Jackson when
he's deserving of getting it. He's been phenomenal this year.
(26:27):
It just so happens that they've got some kicking issues.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
What's crazy is if they don't stop messing around, they're
gonna miss the playoffs with a pretty decent record. They
better stop playing around. They've been too much. Have to
win two more in your mind, dud, you know what's crazy.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
The fact that.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Denver's playing the way that they're playing is scary. It's
scary because if Denver keeps playing the way they're playing
and the Chargers keep playing away there playing, there's a
there's a there's a chance, there's a chance that that
Baltimore could miss that because I think they're going to
(27:09):
be a wild card. I think the Steelers are going
to I think they're going to run away with it
on in the North. I think they're going to win
it in the North. So now you gotta be one
of those, you know, one of those next level teams.
And I don't know that if they don't, if they
don't tighten up, if they don't tighten up, man, they
could find themselves sitting at home PAFs. I mean, I think, so, yeah,
(27:32):
they'll be fine. I meandn't. I mean, they're one of
the teams I said that can stand up to the Chiefs.
But I just think that they're they're too inconsistent. And
it doesn't matter where it comes from, whether it be
they were inconsistent on offense this day, or they were
inconsistent on defense this day, or if it was on
special teams this day, there's always a reason why the
Baltimore Ravens kind of come up short. Now they got
(27:54):
a couple of signature wins. You know, they beat Buffalo,
you know they they who else, which is.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
One of the reasons why I think if you're having
an m VP debate, and not that Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson are playing one another, but that does stick
out in people's head.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So and he had a game, it's not he had
a game against I'll.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Just like, if you want to know whether or not
my words carry weight here on this show.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Because DraftKings the odds for AP.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And wants to go to list listen when we started.
When we started the segment, Josh Allen was a minus
one seventy five to win m v P. He's now
minus two ten.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Bring up your race race being involved with the race?
Speaker 5 (28:33):
That is correct up top, So Jonas, you're saying the
NFL is racist if Lamar Jackson doesn't win.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
It because he wanted to. He's already wanted to believe
there is reverse racism.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes, by the way, what oh gosh, what a reckless
thing to say that would only be acceptable on this show,
our coast beliefs in reverse racism? You do you imagine
that happening anywhere else?
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
In all seriousness though, Yeah, if we're having a debate
about it, there's three names, Lamar Josh Allen, and I
think in order to win it, I mean, don't you.
I mean, could you really give it to Josh Allen
even though he could be statistically behind Lamar Jackson in
(29:23):
every single category? I mean, I guess defensive player of
the Year once and Miles Gear last year and TJ.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Wade had five sacks more.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think it could because I think that if you're
looking at team success, I think that that could play
a part in it, possibly up top. I mean, I'm
not trying to make the case because of that. I'm
making the case because I mean, if I'm looking at
Josh Allen, this was a team that you know, I
made it very clear I thought they had hit their
(29:52):
ceiling and I've said it.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I had no.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Idea that they would turn out to be this This
might be their best year. This might be the year
that they are the better team out of any of
the teams that Josh Allen has been on. And maybe
it's because of one thing or another departure. Maybe it's
an addition by subtraction. I don't really know what it is,
(30:19):
but I would say the balance in which this team
because because cook was he was cooking yesterday, I would
say the balance of this team this year is very high.
And I would say that Josh Allen is the catalyst
of that. So if I'm not going to basic purely
(30:40):
off of off of stats, this probably would be the
year that Josh Allen would be the guy to win
the award.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I mean, would you guys feel if you had better
stats but you watch someone else win the award, when
you feel a little bit like you're cheated from it?
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Of course, of course. I mean it would be.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Like the sales guy in our group who was like
second or third getting the bonus second I was more
productive this year, I sold more of this guy. Why
is that guy getting the extra?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
But I would also say it's not I would say
it's not always about the stats.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, when you let humans vote on an award and
it's not numbers based, this is how this happened.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
When people well because everything isn't going to be I
don't statistically speaking, Yes, if somebody has the best status,
you could argue that they're the best player. That's why
I think, but I don't think that that's always the case.
I don't think always.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
The best player has the best status.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
It's why when Todd Furman was arguing against Travis hunter
it's like, hold on, dude, you got it, Like there's
more to than just the numbers like that, you know
the story being told there with Travis Hunters he's the
best all around player in college football.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Well, the problem with Todd debate was he's making it
the NFL MVP, which is not what the Heisman is.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
And that's the problem with it. And if you go
back through like the NFL.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
MVP winners since nineteen ninety, who are non quarterbacks, like
what Thurman Thomas won it, EMMITTT. Smith wanted, Barry Sanders wanted.
That was back all, Terrell Davis, I was back all
in the nineties. Like since two thousand, it's been Marshall
Falk who was part of the greatest Shawe turf Sean
Alexander who had that record setting year where he had
(32:30):
like twenty seven touchdowns like over eighteen hundred yards whatever
was LT won it like the next year, I think
right as he kind of went over top of that.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Then Adrian Peterson in twenty twelve. That's it. It's been.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
He'll be going on with thirteen years since we've had
a non quarterback win the MVP Award, and obviously the
game has changed dramatically since then.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas Knox week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
A z z Alsha here, I don't know what if
we're looking at a suspension, but that got ugly and.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
I hurd look, man, it was a bad look. Yeah,
he smoked Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
He had Trevor looking like Tula out there, man, and
that ain't you know. You don't want to see that
on no nasty hit. You don't want to see that
at all. Yeah, you don't want to see it at all.
But you don't want to see it after a nasty hit.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Man, I did find it interesting that someone after the
hit posted like what was like rewarded the hit of
the season, And it's a shot of Mike's singletary taking
off someone's head at some point in time, almost in
the exact same way. And I was like, huh, boys,
game has changed a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
That was I mean, I had pictures leading with my
forearm too, just but it's a different game. And like
it's just like you, you gotta govern it and you
gotta manage it differently, Like people used to have fun
like you. If you think about it, the NFL used
to be shopped and marketed with big hits like that
(34:12):
was like how you you got people excited to watch games,
like highlights You'd see guys getting clotheslined, flipped on their heads,
stuff like that. That was that was the norm. But
that's not what it is now. And and now the
understanding of what you know, these hits, you know, the
type of toll that can take on on guys, and
(34:35):
what it looks like and listen, it's it's now a thing.
It's now understood. So now they've kind of legislated the
balance of it out.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Of the game.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I'm one who played violently, and I ultimately I think
there's a fine line between going crossing the line and
being you know, flagrantly too valient in the way that
you played, versus just making physical plays. You know, I
had a rant about tackling and or touching the quarterbacks
(35:06):
that you know, it's to me, I think it's gotten
too it's just too much. But in this instance, in
this case that I mean, that was just it was
uncalled for and for what the rules call for now
and what it looks like, you just there's no you know,
there's no place for that in the game.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I'm not saying that, you know, it wasn't a dirty
play and he shouldn't be suspended or whatever the punishment
is they hand out to him. He's a little chippy anyway,
so you've seen him have dust ups and other games.
But in real time in game speed, I just wonder
how fast that play's coming at you and him seeing
him slide, if he's got as much time as people
(35:47):
maybe think he does looking at it from slow motion
as opposed to real time, real game speed to be
able to adjust like that, because.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
You know it was forearm.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
But I wonder if if the intent was I'm gonna
smack him on the side of his head, or if
he just thought, you know, maybe he'd hit the upper body,
like I don't know, I just well, he was too low.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
To hit his upper body when he took off to
take the hit or do the hit. He was too
He was too low for that, and he did hit
a lot of his shoulder. He hit some of his shoulder,
But the bottom line is his trajectory on his entry
point of contact.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
It was low.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
So either he was planning on hitting him in his
legs and taking his legs out, which would have been
perfectly legal had he been running. You know, he's running,
You do what you need to do to take the
runner down. He's not in the pocket. He's a runner.
But with that being said, once he started to slide
and he continued on, and he continued on with his
(36:49):
fore arm extended, he knew what he was doing. As
someone who delivered blows, he knew exactly what he was
doing in that moment.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Honey.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Okay, if you're a defender and you would see a
quarterback start to slide and you're already closing in on
making a play.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
The rules are different, though, but the way, and to
answer your question, when I was playing, that was still
an opportunity to bust his head open, like that's that's
the rule was not It's not. It wasn't governed the same.
It wasn't governing the same depending on how late you
you went into your slide dictated like, for instance, even
(37:28):
being able to hit the quarterback when he throws the ball,
you used to get one to two steps a defender.
If I got, if I could and we were counting,
like the ball is about to come out, I get
two steps before I got to pull up.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
If I can hit, if I can hit.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
That man with all my might and drown, like drive
him into the ground or hit his head off the ground.
If I can take this quarterback out within two steps,
he's out of there, out of there. So it's the
But the rules are different now, it's governed differently, and
you can't you can't approach it the same exact way
(38:07):
that you did when I played. So I'm not privy
to how it's all discussed and what they do and
sitting in the rules meetings that they have, but we
do know that they are legislating a lot of those
things out of the game, and and so the thought process,
it doesn't matter what your thought process is. Once that
man looks like he's about the slide, you pull up,
(38:30):
you pull up, You don't, you don't continue on. That's
just what it is. You have to adapt, you have
to adjust, you pull up. And and he didn't. He
knew exactly what he was doing. That was not that
was not an accidental like he did not accidentally hit
Trevor Lawrence in that moment. He was going for for
that neck. You don't, you don't lead he's starting to slide,
(38:54):
You're still you're still going in your trajectory on on
hitting him. And then not only do you continue on,
but then you you extend your forearm like you knew
what you were doing. Decent little brawl afterwards, though, I mean,
was that Britain that got a hold of him. Britain
Strange was the first one. I think he slammed Britain down.
But they you know, then Scheff got involved, like it
(39:15):
was some dudes getting involved.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Man.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
That's funny about the Shurf getting involved is that so
Shaer had his helmet off, and so Sureff made sure
to take his off, like not one of these like, no, no, no,
if we're gonna do this, let's do this. And I
wonder if they would have just let them go, if
they would.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Have thrown down right then and there. You know, it's football, man,
that that became gang going gang. That was ganggang right there.
And it didn't look like it was a whole lot
of dudes coming to help Zer. How you say his
name is zero? Yeah, I still can't.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
It wasn't. It wasn't a good look.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And I don't think either by any not the head
coach for Houston, not his teammates. I don't think anybody
felt good about how that played out. You could tell
outwardly that they weren't you know, they weren't okay with
it either.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I used to see that when Dublin Coffin would play
Upper Arlington or Centerville.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Don't don't try to get me involved in the conversation.
I'm just a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
What do you kind of You know, we don't have
much to say in this whole thing. I mean, we're
just the guys throwing the ball. You know, we're not
hitting anybody, We're not doing any of the physical stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
So I'm not going to try to chime in on
this bro, I might have came off the sideline on
that one. If it was on our sideline, I would
have been up in there. I would have been up there.
I wouldn't have said anything. I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
You wouldn't talk any trash, bro.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I would like, well, come get you some all right,
let's talk about like I'm talking about if they had
hit my quarterback, that's what I'm saying. Oh yeah, I
would have been up in there like an assassin, and
I wouldn't have been talking trash. I would have been
talking like straight street street terms, and it's not appropriate
for radio. A.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
All kinds of words would.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Have been coming out, all kinds of you you p
p a mother, Yeah, you would you. It would have
been all kinds of stuff coming out. It would have been,
but it wouldn't have been used in racial terms. It
would have been used, and you know, it's just it
would have been bad. I can only imagine what was
being said at that moment in time. You know, I
(41:27):
would have came off if it was on our sideline,
If it was on our side of the field, I
might have got ejected.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Because I would have got to him. I would have
got to him.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
You know I sound like I'm talking tough, but I'm
just saying like that would have that would have moved
me if I especially if I was standing on like
if we were on the bench, different, but if we're
standing there watching it like it's standing on the sideline,
we're there that Yeah, I think. I just don't think
anybody who who cares would have stayed, stayed put it
(41:56):
in that situation, not the way he was laying on
the ground. Man, Like you you can't. You can't watch
your boy lay on the ground like that and it
not impacts you in a way where you want to
like you want to defend that situation.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
So elseha here got ejected, and then a guy from
the Jags got ejected, and the reasoning afterwards when they
asked the official in the pool the postgame pool questioning afterwards,
he said, well, because he left the side, they left
the sideline.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
It looked like a lot of people left the sideline
for that. He might have been the one that left
the sideline and got a hold of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Two pros and a cup of Joe here. Fox Sports
Radio LeVar Jonas.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
That way, Jonas would have been behind the security.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
John's well, looked at him out there, get him LeVar,
get them, get home.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
My gosh, there's so much violence going on right now,
And would have been like, hey, buddy, anybuddy, Hey buddy,
why'd you have to hit him like that?
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Hey, we're thinking
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar Airings, rading Win and Jonas Knox on radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I gotta tell you, man college football this weekend, in particular,
what happened in Columbus. No offense to anybody listening in
Columbus right now, that was wonderful television.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Oh man, that was riveting. No offense would be an offense?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Was it wonderful?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Though?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I mean, my perspective obviously is different because.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
I was down there in the field for it, and
the second half there's only three points scored. So the
thought in my head was, I wonder if this is
really entertaining for people to watch. I mean, LeVar, you're
a defensive guy, so maybe you're like, man, that's a
good defense.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
There are some moments where.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
You're like, yeah, that's probably true, but then you're like,
just bad offense. That being said, though, what I thought
was most entertaining or interesting being there, And I don't know, LeVar,
if you can relate to this or Jonas when you've
been to you know, different games where you felt this.
(01:11):
But the second half it felt like even that home
field crowd almost turned And it was probably because that
two minute drive before half when Ohio State kind of
just went.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
On bing bing bing bing bing touchdown.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
It was like, yeah, there, it is like just do that, Like,
just just throw to the best wide receiver corps in
college football and then it's a big mismatch. They're not
gonna be able to stop you if you want a
two minute drive like that, right, you didn't see it
the rest of the second half. And that's obviously one of
the many questions I think Buckey's fans have is why
do you keep trying to run between the tackles against
(01:48):
a team that's got probably two first round picks in
Kenneth Grand Mason Graham head scratcher. How do you only
get Jeremiah Smith, who would probably be a top five
pick and this year's draft was seven targets, They had
five catches. He also drew two defensive pass interferences, so
tack on another thirty yards for whatever that was, Like,
(02:09):
how do you not get him more involved in the
game plan? And maybe it's because they lost trust in
their quarterback, you know, maybe had everything to do with that.
And if that's the case, I would argue, then for you,
you don't have the right guy in there in the
first place. And I said this way back in the spring,
the most talented quarterbacks in that Ohio State team are
guys who are freshmen. It's Julian Sand and Hair Nolan,
(02:32):
and none of those guys's going to sniff the field.
And now here we are with an Ohio State team
with now two losses, still playing the playoff. But I
would imagine if either one of Air Nolan or Julian
Sand would have started this season for the Buckeyes, probably
would still be at a minimum the same spot, if
not maybe a little bit better. And especially the future
(02:52):
looks a little bit brighter because you have a younger
guy who's gonna be doing it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
But that's for another time another day.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
I just felt like it felt like the crowd turned,
and that's what I wanted to get to, is like
you could feel it. You could feel the frustration. You
could feel this, Oh no, here it go, here we
go again for a.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Fourth straight year.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I don't know if you guys felt that, well, I
was gonna ask you, like, I don't know if you
could feel that on television. You could feel it in
the stadium, and it was almost like Michigan just had
to kind of keep doing what they've been doing the
last four years and they were gonna come.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Away with a win. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
When I was watching it, I just I came to
the conclusion, I can relate to this because I lost
to Michigan every single year. I can't relate to it
on the level that that Ohio State you know what
they're dealing with, but somewhat, And I was talking. I
was talking to a couple guys because I was in
(03:48):
I was in state college while we were watching it.
And you know the idea that coaches get nervous or
they pucker up, and they don't want to make mistakes.
They don't want to have a mistake that costs the game.
They don't want to be in a situation where it
was like that was the play right there?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Why did you call that?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And And I think teams coaches fall into and in
this game in particular, I think that that Ohio State
they fell into the trap of what Penn State falls
into when they play Michigan in Ohio State, which is
I think there there has now become an inferiority complex
(04:32):
going into the Michigan game. If you're an Ohio State
player or an Ohio State coach. More specifically, if you're
not going to be aggressive in the biggest games of
the year, what is it all about, Like, let it
all hang out. If you're going to make a mistake,
make a mistake. If the kid's not going to be
(04:52):
able to deliver it, let him show he's not going
to deliver it. Don't make don't try to mitigate any
type of mistakes that could ta place a turnover, Oh
my gosh, a turnover. Whatever it is that you're thinking
when you go into such a conservative approach to what
you're doing, don't do it like fight against it.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I see it.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I see it every single year. The one thing that
I came away with when Penn State played Ohio State
is like, we did not push the ball downfield. It
was it was way too it was way too conservative
of an approach to what you're doing. And then it
ultimately allows for a team to basically find a comfort
(05:34):
zone in how they want to play against you. And
that's what I saw take place. And the longer they
allowed Michigan to stay close, and the closer that game was,
the further got into it. I was like, Man, Michigan's
going to win. This game, Michigan is going to that.
They started running the ball pretty effectively, probably a little
bit more effectively than I've seen against Ohio State this season.
(05:57):
And an Ohio State wasn't. They weren't stressing Michigan's defense out.
They just weren't. They allowed Michigan's defense to find a rhythm,
to find the comfort zone, and then once that happened,
they found the confidence. And what took place, I think
it's more of a mental emotional game that we saw
(06:17):
take place against those two teams versus a real matchup game.
Let it hang out. Why y'all nervous? You got you
have the players, you have the coach, you got Chip
Kelly call in the place. What are y'all getting so
conservative for? It's just it's strange to me, And I
wonder because I asked this question. I was like, do
(06:40):
when you have an offensive coordinator, does the head coach?
How much does the head coach dictate what plays are
being called? Because that could be that could be a
major part of it.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean the interesting thing about the play calling,
and I guess my frustration with it it is like
the sun Zoo, you know, the art of War. For
anyone who's read it right, like fight them where they're not.
And it's like, why would you why do you keep
trying to bang out with your patched up offensive line
versus again, two first round picks, a team that has
been constructed to beat you, like they're constructed to be
(07:14):
able to run the football, stop the run, because that's
what's one of this rivalry. Yet you're like stubbornly pounding
your head against the ball, oh the wall, trying to
do this. And so it goes back to you know, well,
Chip Kelly was the mentor to Ryan Day, and they
both probably have similar thought. But at some point you
have to say, we paid and brought in a transfer
(07:36):
quarterback and they must have lost confidence. They must have
lost faith in him. I mean, I'll be honest too.
The last two drives I saw him in he looked nervous.
It looked like and here's the thing, is like, at
some point time when I was probably a true freshman,
like people probably looked at me and felt that way.
You know, you get in those situations. And I was
(07:58):
thinking back to you will have to Day's Kansas State,
and I couldn't really think of like a memorable two
minute drive or something where he was able to bring
them back, and I thought, like, this is going to
be really tough for him in this moment if he
doesn't have a bunch of things to hang his hat on.
I mean, for people who don't know that, the history
and the road of Will Howard, you know, started early,
got the play probably before he was ready, but played
(08:20):
well enough where it might be gave him more of
an opportunity. And then it was a combination of guys
coming in who replaced him where he didn't get to
play quite as much. Adrian Martinez, for example, was.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
One of them.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
And you know, I think Will Howard's used how Adrian
came to Kansas State in regards to how he approached
going to Ohio State. But one of the reasons why
he left Kansas State was because they went to play
Avery Johnson, the quarterback who's there now, that was who
was going to be the starter for Kansas State this season,
even if Will Howard came back.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
So think about that.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
I also think that when you think about kids who
and you're young men who go to some of these
other schools, when you're playing at Kansas State, it doesn't
feel this when you're playing for Ohio State. I knew
it might be staying in the obvious for some, but
I want to drive home this point because I do
see instances where we see quarterbacks on these bigger stages
and they don't know how to handle they don't know
(09:13):
how to approach it, and they do look nervous and
they don't play as well in those big moments.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And part of that's.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Because when they when they chose to go to Kansas State,
you know, the magnitude of some of the games are playing,
We're never going to be as big unless they found
their way somewhere else. And once you go to those
other places, it's an entirely different feel. It's entirely different
challenge for you as a quarterback. I think that plays
(09:39):
a role too for a lot of these guys who
you know, didn't necessarily pick to go there.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
They haven't played big games like this before, a rivalry
like this.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I mean no disrespect to Kansas, Kansas State not as
big of a rivaly, not just no, it's not even close.
So I think that plays a role too, where once
you get into it, then it's like, oh, oh s, yeah,
this is a lot bigger than I've ever felt before
my life, and in those moments, it's like you can't
(10:07):
become overwhelmed by it. But I think I was most
What disappoints me the most about the outcome of the game,
not because like I kind of, you know, predicted of
how State to win. It's more of the fact that
because I thought Michigan was gonna score about ten or
thirteen points, that's what I thought. I just thought of
how State would go to score more. And to me,
(10:28):
it's wasted talent. You have all this talent. You have
all these guys like Jack Sawyer and j. T. Tuymol
Law and Denzel Burke and all these players who could
have went to the draft who came back for it.
And if I'm a defensive player, I'm frustrated. And that's
why I think. You saw Jack Sawyer with the flag
after the game, so they're not planning it and everything else.
And you know, he did everything he could when he
(10:49):
was on the field, but the reality is you had
sixty minutes on the field to do your part and
once that's over, man like it's it's tough to hear this,
but it's their moment.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Now, you should have had that fight. Don't let them
plant that flag. You should have had enough flight, enough
fight in you and listen. It's probably going to get outlawed,
it's going to get banned from from college sports like
you're not going to be. There's going to be something
that's done moving forward.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Did anybody successfully get it in the ground or it's
not about success, You're never going to.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
No, it's not. Actually it's not. It's not dumb.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
You've planted your flag in their field. It's the it's
the action of it. It's not it's not the literal
sense of it, Jonas, it's the act.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Now we DECI I need to see it in the
turf standing up there. That's we're playing golf. Otherwise it
doesn't count. All right, I'll leave that one alone. That's
that's crazy to me.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It's the act of we took we We walked in
your trap and we took over your trap. We came
into your house with with some used up ankle tape,
a jockstrap on, some some some wrist tape.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Didn't wipe off our eye.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Black, no towel, no nothing, just your midnight package out
and we're going to your refrigerator. We're gonna get some food. Oh,
there's some kool aid right there. We're gonna drink that
kool aid. What what is that right there? That's what's that?
I don't know what it is, but we're going to
eat that up. Where's Oh, there's the microwave right there.
Oh yeah, there's Yeah, you want to heat up the stove.
(12:32):
Let's heat up the stove. It looks like there's some
some good leftovers. And there were checked to check the freezer.
They walked into your house. They walked into your house
and did what they wanted to do. That's the idea
of it, if you're looking at it from from like
you know, football is generally connected to military. It's connected
(12:55):
to to how that that works, game planning, coming in, deploying,
doing what you need to do, executing game plan missions,
those different things. And when Michigan won, Michigan basically said
we've conquered the horseshoe and now we're putting our flag
in the ground. This is Michigan's place. Now this is
(13:18):
ann arbor. Uh Ohio.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I'm telling you, man, that was if you just went
drive chart in the second half, I mean, it's terrible.
It's you know, punt interception, interception, miss field goal intert
like you just like looked at that and you say, oh,
this is an ugly gets not good. The part, the
part I enjoyed about it was that as the game
went on, a story was being told, and the story was, Oh, God,
(13:44):
Michigan is okay with what the situation is. They're okay
with the circumstances and the pressure, and Ohio States now lose.
You could feel it watching television that that play is
starting to tighten up, Like you could feel the crowd,
you could feel the energy. It was just beautifully done
(14:05):
by Michigan to go into that place and to take
that from them, because look, let's be honest here, they
were over a three touchdown favorite. Ohio State was going
into the game. People looked at this as a coronation. Oh,
you know, we're going to get our opportunity, like Michigan's
going to get their come up ins.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Their Ohio rematch against Oregon.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And then to Brady's point, this is the part when
I thought, oh, something's going on here. When Ohio State
goes down before halftime and scores, I think the feeling
was easy quickly all right, like this this is big.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
This is going to go quickly.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And they get the ball to start the second half,
they're driving and then they punt it. When they came
away with no points to start the second half, I thought,
oh no, man, like that fan base is probably thinking
of themselves. Wait a second, it should be so much
easier than this. What's going on? And then it felt
like the panics started to set in.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
It was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Well, like you say, because they changed the play calling,
they changed they should have tempoed Michigan right on back
to Michigan.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Dude, spread them out and and not and maybe make
sense some tempo, but spread them mount and throw the
football fifty times. People are like, that's for that, Well, well,
he's known for a lot of, you know, different types
of scheme. I think that's the impression of Chip Kelly.
But if you go through his years, even had Oregon
and Philly and all that, like, he runs the ball too,
(15:26):
I mean, and even during his time in UCLA most recently,
that means almost stubbornly.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
And so I think here's here's what Michigan's defensive style was.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
If you go back to the first half and you
look at the scoring drives, for Ohio State or even
or I should say it attempts to because obviously the
field goal kicking was atrocious. Nine plays at a field goal,
ten plays miss field goal, nine plays touchdown like that's
that's what it was. So Michigan very clearly wasn't playing
(15:59):
necessarily bend but break. But they oftentimes doubled Jeremiah Smith,
which Ohio State was fine with, just letting them sit
in the same spot and be doubled, and they really
didn't want to let anyone get by them, and if
they did, they just grabbed them and it was a
defensive pi like which what happened twice on Jeremiah Smith.
And so they were very intent on making Ohio State
(16:19):
earn it the long hard way, and they knew at
some point they would falter. They knew at some point
there'd be a miskick, or they'd throw an interception or
be it turnover un downs or be a punt like.
That was essentially what the game plan was, and they
knew by doing that they would lengthen the game and
it would play to their advantage because it's less touches
(16:40):
for those playmakers to get. Even though Ohio State essentially
took some of those playmakers out of you know, out
of the game in their own way by not targeting
them or get them the football enough.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So that was part of that.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
I think the crazy thing is Michigan scored ten points
in the first half and this is what.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Those plays looked like.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Those drives look like six total plays five yards and
they got a touchdown and a field goal out of that.
Think about that for a second. How frustrating you have
to be as a defense.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Now.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I'm not saying that Michigan didn't find their way in
the second half of running the football where they clearly
outrushed Ohio State. The debate of Ryan Day teams and
if they're physical enough and tough. I mean, the one
thing that became very apparent to me before the game
on the field, and I'd said this. I don't know
if I've said this on our show, but back in
twenty twenty one, when Michigan and really Jim Harball was
(17:33):
having a hard time beating Ohio State, I was there
in ann Arbor and I remember watching that team come
out of the tunnel and looking at their demeanor and
I'm like, this is different. It's not like the weight
of the world is on them, and they look to
me like they're about ready to get in a fight
and whoop someone's ass. That's what it looked like. And
(17:56):
for the last four years now, that is the same
look their O line, their D line has had the
entire time. They go out and warm ups, they bang
around a little bit, and when you compare it to
Ohio State, it doesn't look anything close. It's like I
almost feel like like Michigan has been like hardened over
(18:18):
the last four years, where Ohio State in some ways
has been running a program that is elite and is
this and it's that, but it's like not gritty, it's
not where they're like scrapping and tough. I mean, I
talked to a couple of the coaches. They were kind
of coming out in second half, and I was just
kind of like, what's.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
The sense of urgency? Like this game.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Shouldn't even be close, shouldn't even be close, Like you
could just beat the crap out of Indiana, who struggled
with Michigan but still beat Michigan.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Like this game shouldn't even be close.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
And there was just no sense of urgency and there's
no sense of having that same physicality and toughness that
Michigan has. That's really the difference. Michigan's program. Their football
program is just a tougher, more physical program, and they're
gonna make it ugly and they're gonna fight you, and
(19:15):
at least.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Versus Ohio State, they're gonna find a way winning. Yeah,
that's great, man, it was great. It was great. It
was a great. Question amazing.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
The question becomes, what do you do now if you're
a high of state With Ryan Day? It's good. Well,
like he has been. He's sixty six and ten in
six seasons. He coming into it, no one had won
more games in the last fifty years in their first
seventy five games than Chris Peterson and Ryan Day and
(19:45):
college football, I think about that the last five decades.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
And unfortunately, of.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
His ten losses, forty percent or four of those have
come to Michigan, the team up north.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
That's crazy, man, It's it's nuts.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
And if and if you look at like a lot
of losses, this is this is the most painful because
it's the largest upset in the Ohio State Michigan rivalry.
And on top of that, it's it's one in which
like it wasn't one of those top five matchups which
we've seen in years past, and so it's a little
harder to swallow. Like LeVar and you said, like, well,
I relate, you know, with you know, being a Penn
(20:20):
State Michigan I beat him. I can relate to a degree.
When I was playing USC, here's the difference. You wousc
maybe lost a total of what four games the entire
four years I was at Notre Dame, Like, that's how
good that program was. They actually were going for a
three peep for my freshman year to my junior year.
And so we can talk about that rivalry and that
debate and everyone's like, oh, it's a big win. I'm like,
(20:41):
well it was. It was a scary win because outside
of two pick six is that's an even ball game,
Like if we really want to be real about it.
But it's tough, man. It's tough to have to come
back and then you leave and you don't end up
beating that team. But even more disappointing this year because
I think this Ohio State team feels like they're one
of the most talented teams and they are. They are,
(21:02):
and I thought their coaching staff did not do them
at least offensively defensively. You can't blame Jim Knowles and
what they did. I thought they did. He did a
tremendous job. It was more about offensively letting down that
side of the ball.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Mm.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, well listen, congratulations to uh we are Yeah, yeah,
we get it. We get a shot a shift.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Hey, and that's not Ohio State or Michigan, So don't
be shocked if we beat the hell out of them.
Don't be shocked. I'm just telling y'all, it's not Ohio
State and it's not Michigan. We don't have we don't
have mental blocks against anybody else.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
There you go. I'm just being honest. I was so happy.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm like, all right, we ain't got to play Ohio
State or Michigan and the Big Ten champions.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
What's that? Are you gonna go to Indianapolis for? I
don't know what you mean what? It was too cold?
This game was too cold. I don't want to. Yeah,
but there's always the I gotta walk to the place. No,
you can walk under yeah, you can walk under ground.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
No, let's see, the last time I went, I was
outside and I was walking and I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It was so cold this weekend there. I didn't I
just yeah, man, I know, I'm thinking about having.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
All the time.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
It's a beautiful venue and they do such a good job.
I'll say this about the Big Ten for that matchup.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
It feels really, really big.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
It's awesome, like the Big Ten does a tremendous job
with the presentation of the Big Ten Championships. So if
you're thinking about going, I would go. I'm telling you
will not regret it. Give you some good stakes.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I've gone. I just I don't you know, I don't know. Well,
if you win, it's been eight year, it's.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Been a while.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I went to another one though. I went to I
went to another one not too long ago. I think
you should go in twenty two too. I went in
twenty two.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
I don't know. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
A lot does Christmas music stress out so badly? Man?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It stresses those gifts man bro four chicks. Four, that's tough.
Sons are easy. Sons are like a dad, like whatever.
I prefer to call them women, but well they're mine,
so I call them chicks if I want to, well,
Kat Williams call them.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
I don't know, that's probably not good. Jim. I don't know, Jim,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
You guys know how we were talking about who's going
to win the m v P and people throwing out
Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yep, yeah, we were talking about it.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's over, Josh Allen will be your m VP.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
He had his showtime performance last night. Uh, kind of
lateral from Amari Cooper scored a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
That that ended it. The lateral lateral for the touchdown
that was it.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, you need that moment, you need that state age,
you need the snow flurries.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
And if you're mean they clenched.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
The division last night about that, it's over there. They're
they're the top the division. They'll host a home playoff
game at a minimum right now.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I mean I'm not opposed to that. I'm not
going to say he he clinched it. I'm not going
to say it's over. I mean, Philly is on on
a run right now, and you know Saquon is being Saquon.
He did run for over one hundred he did have
a very timely touchdown now granted, and I mean, I'm
(24:34):
sure we'll talk about that game. You know, they're they're
a field goal kicker, which you would never think you'd
have to say that for Baltimore, but they were a
field goal kicker away from winning that game.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Unbelievable, you're like, But nonetheless, the fact that you're going
to sit here and try and diminish what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
No, I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
When one of your home away from home is Shyenne, Wyoming,
And I like I Josh Allen, I would like him,
and you're gonna try and take this away from him.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I like him as well.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I'm gonna take it away because I don't think he's
even close to Lamar Jackson. Bro, statistically speak, why are
you just giving it away to Josh Allen because they
won last night in prime time?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Yes, in the snow. What's interesting is is that moment
dude Baltimore throwing for over three thousand yards so far,
he's dealing, Bro, and.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
He's thrown nine more touchdown passes this year, he leads
the league, Like, what.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Do you mean?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, but if finished them drives off, if Lamar Jackson
would get into better position on the field justin Tucker
wouldn't have to settle for those long field goals and
miss those. So because of that, by default, I'm gonna
go with Josh Allen here.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
And there's a decent chance Lamar is gonna pass for
close to because what they like five games left is
that right?
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Ah?
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Yeah, five games left, he's gonna throw for over four
thousand yards.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
He's gonna sniff.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
A thousand rushing because I think what's now six hundred,
so maybe he gets like over like eight hundred.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
I mean, it's it's just ridiculous, Like I don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Look, I realized he won it last year. I realize
he's won it enough now where people might be saying,
we can't give it to him again. Yeah you can
when he's that much. They're a playoff team. They might
not win the division with the way Pittsburgh's playing right now,
but you can still give it to Lamar Jackson when
he's deserving of getting it. He's been phenomenal this year.
(26:27):
It just so happens that they've got some kicking issues.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
What's crazy is if they don't stop messing around, they're
gonna miss the playoffs with a pretty decent record. They
better stop playing around. They've been too much. Have to
win two more in your mind, dud, you know what's crazy.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
The fact that.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Denver's playing the way that they're playing is scary. It's
scary because if Denver keeps playing the way they're playing
and the Chargers keep playing away there playing, there's a
there's a there's a chance, there's a chance that that
Baltimore could miss that because I think they're going to
(27:09):
be a wild card. I think the Steelers are going
to I think they're going to run away with it
on in the North. I think they're going to win
it in the North. So now you gotta be one
of those, you know, one of those next level teams.
And I don't know that if they don't, if they
don't tighten up, if they don't tighten up, man, they
could find themselves sitting at home PAFs. I mean, I think, so, yeah,
(27:32):
they'll be fine. I meandn't. I mean, they're one of
the teams I said that can stand up to the Chiefs.
But I just think that they're they're too inconsistent. And
it doesn't matter where it comes from, whether it be
they were inconsistent on offense this day, or they were
inconsistent on defense this day, or if it was on
special teams this day, there's always a reason why the
Baltimore Ravens kind of come up short. Now they got
(27:54):
a couple of signature wins. You know, they beat Buffalo,
you know they they who else, which is.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
One of the reasons why I think if you're having
an m VP debate, and not that Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson are playing one another, but that does stick
out in people's head.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So and he had a game, it's not he had
a game against I'll.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Just like, if you want to know whether or not
my words carry weight here on this show.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Because DraftKings the odds for AP.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And wants to go to list listen when we started.
When we started the segment, Josh Allen was a minus
one seventy five to win m v P. He's now
minus two ten.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Bring up your race race being involved with the race?
Speaker 5 (28:33):
That is correct up top, So Jonas, you're saying the
NFL is racist if Lamar Jackson doesn't win.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
It because he wanted to. He's already wanted to believe
there is reverse racism.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes, by the way, what oh gosh, what a reckless
thing to say that would only be acceptable on this show,
our coast beliefs in reverse racism? You do you imagine
that happening anywhere else?
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
In all seriousness though, Yeah, if we're having a debate
about it, there's three names, Lamar Josh Allen, and I
think in order to win it, I mean, don't you.
I mean, could you really give it to Josh Allen
even though he could be statistically behind Lamar Jackson in
(29:23):
every single category? I mean, I guess defensive player of
the Year once and Miles Gear last year and TJ.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Wade had five sacks more.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think it could because I think that if you're
looking at team success, I think that that could play
a part in it, possibly up top. I mean, I'm
not trying to make the case because of that. I'm
making the case because I mean, if I'm looking at
Josh Allen, this was a team that you know, I
made it very clear I thought they had hit their
(29:52):
ceiling and I've said it.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I had no.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Idea that they would turn out to be this This
might be their best year. This might be the year
that they are the better team out of any of
the teams that Josh Allen has been on. And maybe
it's because of one thing or another departure. Maybe it's
an addition by subtraction. I don't really know what it is,
(30:19):
but I would say the balance in which this team
because because cook was he was cooking yesterday, I would
say the balance of this team this year is very high.
And I would say that Josh Allen is the catalyst
of that. So if I'm not going to basic purely
(30:40):
off of off of stats, this probably would be the
year that Josh Allen would be the guy to win
the award.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I mean, would you guys feel if you had better
stats but you watch someone else win the award, when
you feel a little bit like you're cheated from it?
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Of course, of course. I mean it would be.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Like the sales guy in our group who was like
second or third getting the bonus second I was more
productive this year, I sold more of this guy. Why
is that guy getting the extra?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
But I would also say it's not I would say
it's not always about the stats.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, when you let humans vote on an award and
it's not numbers based, this is how this happened.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
When people well because everything isn't going to be I
don't statistically speaking, Yes, if somebody has the best status,
you could argue that they're the best player. That's why
I think, but I don't think that that's always the case.
I don't think always.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
The best player has the best status.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
It's why when Todd Furman was arguing against Travis hunter
it's like, hold on, dude, you got it, Like there's
more to than just the numbers like that, you know
the story being told there with Travis Hunters he's the
best all around player in college football.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Well, the problem with Todd debate was he's making it
the NFL MVP, which is not what the Heisman is.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
And that's the problem with it. And if you go
back through like the NFL.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
MVP winners since nineteen ninety, who are non quarterbacks, like
what Thurman Thomas won it, EMMITTT. Smith wanted, Barry Sanders wanted.
That was back all, Terrell Davis, I was back all
in the nineties. Like since two thousand, it's been Marshall
Falk who was part of the greatest Shawe turf Sean
Alexander who had that record setting year where he had
(32:30):
like twenty seven touchdowns like over eighteen hundred yards whatever
was LT won it like the next year, I think
right as he kind of went over top of that.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Then Adrian Peterson in twenty twelve. That's it. It's been.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
He'll be going on with thirteen years since we've had
a non quarterback win the MVP Award, and obviously the
game has changed dramatically since then.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
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Speaker 2 (33:04):
A z z Alsha here, I don't know what if
we're looking at a suspension, but that got ugly and.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
I hurd look, man, it was a bad look. Yeah,
he smoked Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
He had Trevor looking like Tula out there, man, and
that ain't you know. You don't want to see that
on no nasty hit. You don't want to see that
at all. Yeah, you don't want to see it at all.
But you don't want to see it after a nasty hit.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Man, I did find it interesting that someone after the
hit posted like what was like rewarded the hit of
the season, And it's a shot of Mike's singletary taking
off someone's head at some point in time, almost in
the exact same way. And I was like, huh, boys,
game has changed a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
That was I mean, I had pictures leading with my
forearm too, just but it's a different game. And like
it's just like you, you gotta govern it and you
gotta manage it differently, Like people used to have fun
like you. If you think about it, the NFL used
to be shopped and marketed with big hits like that
(34:12):
was like how you you got people excited to watch games,
like highlights You'd see guys getting clotheslined, flipped on their heads,
stuff like that. That was that was the norm. But
that's not what it is now. And and now the
understanding of what you know, these hits, you know, the
type of toll that can take on on guys, and
(34:35):
what it looks like and listen, it's it's now a thing.
It's now understood. So now they've kind of legislated the
balance of it out.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Of the game.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I'm one who played violently, and I ultimately I think
there's a fine line between going crossing the line and
being you know, flagrantly too valient in the way that
you played, versus just making physical plays. You know, I
had a rant about tackling and or touching the quarterbacks
(35:06):
that you know, it's to me, I think it's gotten
too it's just too much. But in this instance, in
this case that I mean, that was just it was
uncalled for and for what the rules call for now
and what it looks like, you just there's no you know,
there's no place for that in the game.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I'm not saying that, you know, it wasn't a dirty
play and he shouldn't be suspended or whatever the punishment
is they hand out to him. He's a little chippy anyway,
so you've seen him have dust ups and other games.
But in real time in game speed, I just wonder
how fast that play's coming at you and him seeing
him slide, if he's got as much time as people
(35:47):
maybe think he does looking at it from slow motion
as opposed to real time, real game speed to be
able to adjust like that, because.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
You know it was forearm.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
But I wonder if if the intent was I'm gonna
smack him on the side of his head, or if
he just thought, you know, maybe he'd hit the upper body,
like I don't know, I just well, he was too low.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
To hit his upper body when he took off to
take the hit or do the hit. He was too
He was too low for that, and he did hit
a lot of his shoulder. He hit some of his shoulder,
But the bottom line is his trajectory on his entry
point of contact.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
It was low.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
So either he was planning on hitting him in his
legs and taking his legs out, which would have been
perfectly legal had he been running. You know, he's running,
You do what you need to do to take the
runner down. He's not in the pocket. He's a runner.
But with that being said, once he started to slide
and he continued on, and he continued on with his
(36:49):
fore arm extended, he knew what he was doing. As
someone who delivered blows, he knew exactly what he was
doing in that moment.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Honey.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Okay, if you're a defender and you would see a
quarterback start to slide and you're already closing in on
making a play.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
The rules are different, though, but the way, and to
answer your question, when I was playing, that was still
an opportunity to bust his head open, like that's that's
the rule was not It's not. It wasn't governed the same.
It wasn't governing the same depending on how late you
you went into your slide dictated like, for instance, even
(37:28):
being able to hit the quarterback when he throws the ball,
you used to get one to two steps a defender.
If I got, if I could and we were counting,
like the ball is about to come out, I get
two steps before I got to pull up.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
If I can hit, if I can hit.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
That man with all my might and drown, like drive
him into the ground or hit his head off the ground.
If I can take this quarterback out within two steps,
he's out of there, out of there. So it's the
But the rules are different now, it's governed differently, and
you can't you can't approach it the same exact way
(38:07):
that you did when I played. So I'm not privy
to how it's all discussed and what they do and
sitting in the rules meetings that they have, but we
do know that they are legislating a lot of those
things out of the game, and and so the thought process,
it doesn't matter what your thought process is. Once that
man looks like he's about the slide, you pull up,
(38:30):
you pull up, You don't, you don't continue on. That's
just what it is. You have to adapt, you have
to adjust, you pull up. And and he didn't. He
knew exactly what he was doing. That was not that
was not an accidental like he did not accidentally hit
Trevor Lawrence in that moment. He was going for for
that neck. You don't, you don't lead he's starting to slide,
(38:54):
You're still you're still going in your trajectory on on
hitting him. And then not only do you continue on,
but then you you extend your forearm like you knew
what you were doing. Decent little brawl afterwards, though, I mean,
was that Britain that got a hold of him. Britain
Strange was the first one. I think he slammed Britain down.
But they you know, then Scheff got involved, like it
(39:15):
was some dudes getting involved.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Man.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
That's funny about the Shurf getting involved is that so
Shaer had his helmet off, and so Sureff made sure
to take his off, like not one of these like, no, no, no,
if we're gonna do this, let's do this. And I
wonder if they would have just let them go, if
they would.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Have thrown down right then and there. You know, it's football, man,
that that became gang going gang. That was ganggang right there.
And it didn't look like it was a whole lot
of dudes coming to help Zer. How you say his
name is zero? Yeah, I still can't.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
It wasn't. It wasn't a good look.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And I don't think either by any not the head
coach for Houston, not his teammates. I don't think anybody
felt good about how that played out. You could tell
outwardly that they weren't you know, they weren't okay with
it either.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I used to see that when Dublin Coffin would play
Upper Arlington or Centerville.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Don't don't try to get me involved in the conversation.
I'm just a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
What do you kind of You know, we don't have
much to say in this whole thing. I mean, we're
just the guys throwing the ball. You know, we're not
hitting anybody, We're not doing any of the physical stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
So I'm not going to try to chime in on
this bro, I might have came off the sideline on
that one. If it was on our sideline, I would
have been up in there. I would have been up there.
I wouldn't have said anything. I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
You wouldn't talk any trash, bro.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I would like, well, come get you some all right,
let's talk about like I'm talking about if they had
hit my quarterback, that's what I'm saying. Oh yeah, I
would have been up in there like an assassin, and
I wouldn't have been talking trash. I would have been
talking like straight street street terms, and it's not appropriate
for radio. A.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
All kinds of words would.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Have been coming out, all kinds of you you p
p a mother, Yeah, you would you. It would have
been all kinds of stuff coming out. It would have been,
but it wouldn't have been used in racial terms. It
would have been used, and you know, it's just it
would have been bad. I can only imagine what was
being said at that moment in time. You know, I
(41:27):
would have came off if it was on our sideline,
If it was on our side of the field, I
might have got ejected.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Because I would have got to him. I would have
got to him.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
You know I sound like I'm talking tough, but I'm
just saying like that would have that would have moved
me if I especially if I was standing on like
if we were on the bench, different, but if we're
standing there watching it like it's standing on the sideline,
we're there that Yeah, I think. I just don't think
anybody who who cares would have stayed, stayed put it
(41:56):
in that situation, not the way he was laying on
the ground. Man, Like you you can't. You can't watch
your boy lay on the ground like that and it
not impacts you in a way where you want to
like you want to defend that situation.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
So elseha here got ejected, and then a guy from
the Jags got ejected, and the reasoning afterwards when they
asked the official in the pool the postgame pool questioning afterwards,
he said, well, because he left the side, they left
the sideline.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
It looked like a lot of people left the sideline
for that. He might have been the one that left
the sideline and got a hold of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Two pros and a cup of Joe here. Fox Sports
Radio LeVar Jonas.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
That way, Jonas would have been behind the security.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
John's well, looked at him out there, get him LeVar,
get them, get home.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
My gosh, there's so much violence going on right now,
And would have been like, hey, buddy, anybuddy, Hey buddy,
why'd you have to hit him like that?
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Hey, we're thinking
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