November 19, 2025 • 34 mins
It's Fox Sports Radio's official fantasy football podcast! On this midweek edition of the show, Dan Beyer and Producer Ian Roddy open things up with a discussion on survivor pools in sports... Dan, a longtime survivor league enthusiast, explains the intricacies of what makes it such a fun experience. Then Mike Harmon taps in to join the fray, as he and Dan get into all other types of fantasy leagues, like guillotine! Plus, Mike shares some war stories from his time in the fantasy football industry!
Hosts: Dan Beyer, Mike Harmon
Producer: Ian Roddy
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
You want experience during your football season, well, buckle up,
sweet cheeks. We've got all the experience in the world.
This is I Want your Flex with Dan Bayer and
Mike Harmon. Mike and Dan break down everything you need
to set your lineups, from position rankings.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
To starts and sits.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
The guys help you make those hard decisions. And now
let's get your flex. Od here's Dan Bayer and Mike Harmon.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome too. I want your Flex. He is Mike Harmon,
but he's not here right now. You can find Mike
at Swollen Dom, you can find me at Dan Byer
on Fox, and you can find our executive producer, Ian
Roddy at Ian Roddy Underscore. Ian is with me. It
is a midweek edition in Son of California. We've been
battered with rain schedules here and there and trying to navigate.
(00:55):
So it's going to be Ian Roddy and myself for
the next ten minutes and then Ian and Mike and
hit it up, give a little Thursday night preview and
whatnot after that. But the reason also for this I
guess special midweek episode if you will, is every weekend
I want your flex. I give a survivor pick. I
give it points to Paloosa as well. Ied you've got
the streaming defenses. But the survivor pick is one that's
(01:18):
outside the realm of what we normally do for fantasy football.
Mike's got his rankings, He's got the hot plays, the
cold soares sid starts, if you will, the whole shebang
on how you would fill out your lineup. But the
reason that I chose to do a survivor pick is
number one. Mike's information on players is unmatched. So we
(01:38):
are not going to challenge Mike and his rankings and
his hot plays and his cold soars for any other
reason except Mike knows what he's talking about. I feel
Ian and myself do as well. But Mike has done
this for decades. That is his that is his avenue.
So if I can carve out a little layane of
some fun and why we have fantasy, or how you
(01:59):
can have fun during a football season in a different
form of fantasy or just in a different way, it's
good to do that as well. And that's what survivor
pools have provided for me. Do you play any survivor pools?
Ian have you been in any and any sport whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
No, I never have, never have I didn't. I'm I'm interested.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
They have been. They have been going on for years
and years and years, and there's different ways to do it,
and there's different forms to do it. The survivor pool
that hooked me, and I had done NFL previous years,
but the NFL wasn't the ultimate survivor hook for me.
(02:39):
Circa's got their enormous, enormous survivor pool with you know,
millions of dollars up for grabs that so many people
talk about and will follow throughout the year. What hooked
me was an NCAA tournament survivor pool. Okay, And for
those that are wondering, if you are wondering what a
survivor pool is, it's essentially, you pick one team each
(03:02):
week of the NFL season and if they win, you
move on to the next week, but you can't use
that team again. If you lose, you're done. There is
a finality to it that is so appealing ian yet
so scary. But like in fantasy when you're watching the
game and maybe you're up eight points heading into Monday
night football and the other player that you've got has
(03:25):
got one of the players, Well, you're watching the game
to make sure that player doesn't have eight points, or
if there's a rival maybe in your division if you
have divisions in fantasy, you're watching those other games because
you don't want that player to win the game. So
you have an interest in what Monday night football is
even if your teams aren't playing. Survivor provides that as well,
because you can see who everybody else picked, and when
(03:49):
there's a team that is picked by a bunch of
players that is on the ropes are losing, there is
nothing better, and there's just something to be There's something
for being so simple if you know what I'm talking about, huh,
and providing so much fun. That is just so appealing
to me because it sounds so easy. Maybe it's kind
(04:11):
of golf. Maybe I like golf and that's the reason why.
But golf, it's all just Paul is sitting there, go
and hit it, and is anything but that. But that's
kind of like my start in Survivor pools is I
got addicted not by the NFL, but by March Madness
Survivor pools where you pick a team and if they
move on to the next round. That's great, and you
(04:33):
can't use that team again. But what that did is
it just provided me this whole new view on it
because there were so many different things that you had
to look at in a March Madness pool. If you
took say a Duke team, and you took them like
the first Thursday, well what about if Duke runs all
the way to the national championship and you've already picked them, Well,
(04:53):
then you're out of the pool. So it took strategy.
So it was that's what opened my eyes to survivor pools.
Was actually nothing done by the NFL. It was done
because of college basketball. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So once you've picked a team, if I'm understanding it correctly,
you can't pick them again for the rest of the season, correct.
So yeah, I mean I get, I get that there's
some some strategy to that, because it's like, Okay, you
don't want to pick the team if we're talking NFL,
you don't want to pick the team that you see,
you know, winning a lot of games late in the season,
because you want to be able to save them for
when they have Like you got to look at the
entire schedule of a team to make like to pick.
(05:26):
At what point in the season you want to say, like,
this is this this is the week that I'm absolutely
certain they're going to win.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, And then you have to think, all right, if
I'm not gonna pick, and let's just use the Eagles
and Titans because that was last year's Super Bowl champ
and the worst team in the NFL. If Eagles Titans
were playing Week one, you'd be like, well, Eagles are,
what a fifteen point favorite? So I'll just take the Eagles.
But to that point of you don't want to use
(05:53):
the Eagles just on that one. However, it's finding the
matchups within the matchups that make it interesting. And last
year in the National Football League we talk about this
year off. Yeah, you just don't know anything. Last year
there was so much carnage in the first three weeks
of the season of team's favorites being upset that I
(06:16):
know many a survivor pool that started over after three
weeks didn't yours.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I kind of remember that, didn't you guys.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Get a reset? I got knocked out of a pool,
and I remember it. It was the Jaden Daniels Commanders
Bengals Monday night game when the Commanders didn't punt, and honestly,
I think it was the Jaden Daniels really like coming
out party. They had lost in Week one to the Buccaneers,
which I had picked against the Commanders, like rookie quarterback,
you're going up against a tough Bucks defense. See. I
(06:43):
even remember my survivor picked from Week one of last
year and why I thought it out. But then you're thinking, Okay,
well the Commanders are bad. Bengals should be. Bengals are
a pretty good team, but I don't know if they're
going to be able to win a super Bowl because
of the defense. Anyway, I got knocked out, and that
because and I was the only one. Is the point
of it is there was so much carnage not only
(07:04):
from that game, but from what happened in week one
of the season and what happened in Week two that
the survivor pools ended up starting over. But there's just
this there's this fine line, and the reason why I
wanted to talk about it here is because there's also
the ebbs and flows of the season. In weeks one
and two. You wouldn't dare take the Green Bay Packers
right because look at how dominating Green Bay looks.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
But now it's looking like you should have correct.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I haven't used the Packers yet. I have no idea
when in the world I'm going.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
To actually terrified to use them at this point in season.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And that's the other point of this. When you're looking
at matchups, you can talk yourself into or out of
anything because it's just just pick one and don't get
it wrong. And that's what I just find so appealing
and so fun with it. And I give you a
pick each week, and I'm not gonna be able to
sit there and say, all right, I'm giving you the
Eagles here in week twelve, because you probably have used
(07:57):
the Eagles up. You've probably probably used the Colts up
at this point. But the Colts are interesting just for
the fact of we didn't expect them to be a
great team and now they're a greater team than we are.
I'm in a survivor pool that's got about ninety some
people left, and only six people still have the Colts
(08:19):
because people thought, well, the Colts are good. They're good
enough to beat that team, but they're not good enough
that I don't want to save them along the way.
So those are all the ebbs and flows of survivor pools.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like with the Colts
in particular, they must have just kind of thrown a
wrench into a lot of people's season long plans because
they'd be a team that going into the year you
would think like, okay, I would have that circled for
you know, if there's a really good team playing them
late in the year, you're like, going into this season,
you're like, oh, yeah, I have that circle. That's when
I'm going to play that. I wish I had a
specific matchup, but like, if the Chiefs are playing the
(08:49):
Colts going into the year, you're like, yes, Chiefs versus Colts,
that's an automatic win for the Chiefs. Now, we don't
know anything like that's not Take the Colts.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And that's a perfect matchup because they play in Week twelve.
Coming out there, you go, yeah, there, you would look.
You would think, and what I looked at, and it's
I took the Chiefs in a survivor pool. To that point,
Ian I took the Chiefs in a survivor pool in
Week three when they were oher and two and at
New York. I said, there's no other Chiefs are going
to own three. Yeah, but honestly, if the Chiefs aren't
(09:19):
are this bad or aren't as good as they were previously,
because they were zero and two at that time. I
looked at their schedule and I said, so, this is
two weeks in and this is just after the Colts
escaped against the Broncos because of that penalty on the
field goal. So we really didn't The Colts had beat
Miami in week one, and what's the big deal. We
didn't think Miami was good at all. I looked at
(09:40):
the schedule, to your point and thought to myself, well,
the only other time I would probably pick the Chiefs
would be at home against the Colts in week twelve.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So you said the Chiefs for this, No, I used.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Them against the Giants that game, and I want I
was able to advance one of my entries. But that's
that's the thought pro of it. And there's so many
different ways to go down, and you can look and
sites that do it well give you the option to
see who's available. Who was picked two, and you should
have about four if you're still alive, you should have
(10:13):
about four or five good teams and maybe in the
last two or three weeks, you're gonna have to play matchups.
But we've talked about your Jets. I believe the Jets.
They have the Titans and Saints on the schedule. There's
a triangle of where the Saints and Titans, I know, play,
so you're probably gonna get a lot of Saints picks
(10:34):
on that one. Okay, So the Saints, by the way,
in this pool where there's ninety three entries still left,
ninety two excuse me, ninety three people are left, eighty
nine have picked this. I have not picked the Saints yet.
I want of four people who have picked the Saints
to actually win and they beat the Giants. When they
(10:55):
beat the Giants, I picked the Saints that week.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Wait, so do you have to pick the Saints at
some point in the scene.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Not necessarily. That's the other thing is there's going to
be what fourteen teams from the thirty two that you
don't pick at all. It's really fascinating and when you
get into it now, I'll probably get bounced by you know,
at some point I started with six entries and only
have one left. So there are five. The Bengals and
(11:20):
they lost to the Jets. That was a big one.
It was on that same day that the Falcons lost
to the Dolphins. So you see people trying to pick
middle of the road teams against bad teams, and I'll
always talk about the reason on why I'm thinking of
this matchup in that matchup. But there's just so many
different ways to go about it. It's a fun way
to play, and just wanted to shed a little light
(11:42):
into why we always do a survivor pick and why
I just think it's fun in fantasy football.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know, I actually needed this, Dan. I've never actually
just sat down and learned about what a survivor league
really is. I've kind of known the basic premise of it,
but this is God, think I'm gonna join one next.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
There's another angle to it. I was talking to a
cousin of mine a couple of years ago. They do
it the reverse way, where the team has to lose,
so you pick one team each week that you are
sure to lose. So if you took the Titans, say
Week one, you couldn't pick the Titans anymore. It's a
(12:18):
different way of looking at it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yeah, So it's like, who, what teams do you think
are going to absolutely suck this year?
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Just pick that.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Wow, But it's I almost want to try that way.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I know. I actually was really intrigued by it as well.
I'm like, is this the easier way to do it?
If you're just trying to trying to pick the winners
as opposed to trying to pick the losers.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It's the Jets in me, because well.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I would just say this, there's there's more of a
known with the winning teams then there would be with
the losing teams, right Like, there's more like there's more
of there's more of that along the way, maybe you
would take the Lions in a week eleven matchup because
they're at Philadelphia because you're like, a, that's a tough
(13:01):
spot for them. Maybe that's where you would take like
a better team. But I think that it just shows
you there's different ways to do it. I've done it
with baseball. There's a baseball pool that I'm in where
you if a team it's for a week, and if
a team has a five hundred record or better, you
move on to the next week and you get three
strikes during the year. So if you get one wrong,
it's one you're at least active for a couple of
(13:21):
weeks sometimes have gone to August, another time have been
out by June. Because things are just you know, heads
over heels. But a lot of picking Againza it used
to be. Now it won't be with the Paul Skins
and the Pirates' pitching crew. But you get people to
pick against the Pirates, pick against the A's. They got
a three game set against the A's, you'd be able to, oh,
(13:42):
I'm going to take that team. That's how you would
move along with doing it. But there's a bunch of
different ways to do it. I know some daily gaming
stuff has stuff with the NBA where you have twenty
points scorers was one of the contests that I saw
on one of the games where you pick a player
each night. If they have twenty points, you move on
to the next round and continue. So there's a lot
of different ways that you can do it.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
What a time to be a sports Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Absolutely absolutely. For someone like me who loves drafts, I've
always loved drafts, this opened up a whole new world
for me of like, Okay, what's a different way that
I can consume sports? And survivor pools are ways of
doing so.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You know, I'm in five fantasy football leagues right now,
and I wonder if I should just like chop off
a few of those and you know, report maybe go
four fantasy leagues next year, one survivor league and just
see how that I'll.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Leave it like this, it's not even nearly as.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Much of time commitment, correct, And we still.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Want you to listen. I want your flex so we're
not trying to move you away from that. But it's
also the game that you picked that week. You are
locked in, like you like that is the game there
could be could be It could be Chiefs Broncos, could
be Seahawks Rams. But if you picked the Ravens to
beat the Browns in Week eleven, that's what you were watching,
like you were focused in on that one, especially if
(14:54):
you're this late in the season.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Anything anything like that in sports, that just gives you
the chance to feel like a genius. There's there's there's
a value in that as a sports fan for sure.
And I think like you're you're You're the way you
navigate the Chiefs Giants thing, you just come out feeling
like a genius.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
After that you do, yeah, absolutely, And now like the
two people that have the Colts left because most people
don't in this certain pool like they feel like they're
way ahead of the game. But here's the question, if
the Colts played their best football of the season, like
was the time to use it early on? And now
are they It's all of those factors that that play
in that make it so much fun. So still TBD
(15:31):
on that. Yes, yes, you and Harmor are going to
talk a little Thursday night football bills and Texan's coming
up on Thursday and talk some more fantasy wise, So
we appreciate it. With this rainy, soggy weather, just with
connections and whatnot, we were able to put this together
to you for our midweek episode, so will be back
with more. I'm Dan Pyre. It's right here, and I
want your flex. It is I want your flex. He's
(15:55):
Mike Carmen. I'm Dan Bayer. We got no Ian Roddy here,
so that's our mix up here, but hey, hit Ian
up on X if you want it Ian Roddy Underscore.
You can always find Mike at Swollen Doman. While I
just tried to lax poetically about my love of survivor pools, Mike,
whether it be in college basketball, major League baseball, or
the National Football League. You have been in this industry
(16:18):
for a long time. You've seen games come and go.
We talk very highly about the Guillotine League format and
how that has become a fixed uere at Fox Sports
Radio and whatnot. But there's just so many other ways
where you can enjoy a fantasy branch, if you will,
of the National Football League or other sports aside from
(16:41):
just maybe placing a bet on game. There's just so
many other ways to enjoy the National Football League.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Well, I mean, what spot of time.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
It's nearly twenty years ago, Dan, I actually had a
book published. Yes, they contracted me to write a book.
It's sold out quickly. Five thousand gobbies right are out
there somewhere as Kimling or at the bottom on the landfill.
But it was about everything as we had the explosion
of the fantasy realm, and certainly fantasy football was the
(17:08):
biggest thing. And at Yahoo, when the industry went paid for,
we stayed free, which meant anybody that just wanted to
dabble a little bit, they came into the waters with
us and hung out a little while. Eventually you need
to make some money, so that's when the stat.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Tracker, the Great.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Guy guys and the Java guys got together and we
had what became the Killer app because everyone wanted live scoring. Well,
if you had to pay a couple hundred bucks for
your league to be on insert league service here, well
at ours you could play for free, but if you
wanted the stats, you know, it was either ten bucks
a person or one hundred for the league, and you
(17:48):
got your live update, and it was a better user
interface and all of those things. We did it the
old drug dealer model. Hey, test this out, see if
you like it, and then all of a sudden week
two it didn't work, and people like, where's my stats? Like, well,
we warned you cough it up, So you know, it
was that kind of thing. But it was still much
cheaper than the other versions and it worked much better.
(18:11):
So we had that. Then you add golf and auto racing,
which had the strange world because of the I mean,
and you know this with golf, right, you got folks
that are fans.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Of a golfer. You had people in NASCAR that you.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
Know, they were earn harder, earn hard junior fans, and
everybody else could go to hell. So but but you
didn't want a game whereby it became the setate and
forget it. So for golf purposes, all right, if you
had four active golfers, guess what, everybody was gonna pick
Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson. So there's two spots gone.
So we made it to where you had limits per
(18:46):
half of the season. So for the first eighteen events
or thereabouts. From the NASCAR side and about the same
for golf, it was all right. You could pick from
a list, B list, C list, and we did our
best to kind of parse it out based on endings
and histories. But it forced folks to churn over and
it became pretty popular and then started to spin out
(19:07):
into trivia games based on Survivor and all sorts of
other things, which I mean, and that's where we are
at this point. Almost every reality show has some form
of game element online, and certainly for fantasy purposes, Survivor
and Guillotine have gone into another stratosphere.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, this is the this is the other wang of it.
Because I think we've all heard from buddies, I'm in
too many leagues, sure, And I didn't think it was
true until I got into too many leagues or just
had too many things on my plate, and it's different
for everybody. There's also a point, Mike of just all right,
am I chearing for everybody in the NFL or cheering
(19:48):
against everybody in the NFL because I've got it so
many sure, you know, right? Like you know on Monday night,
I have Seed Lamb on one team and then I'm
playing against them in another. And we all experience that
sort of thing when you have multiple teams. But even
when there's multiple ways of doing it, which is why
I like the I like the diversity of say a
(20:12):
Guillotine League. Now I'm not in love with the absolute format.
I don't think that takes skill and intelligence, and maybe
fantasy football doesn't. I believe that it does. I think
that there's ways that you can get edges and advantages.
I'm not sure how much there is in Guillotine where
if you have you know, our cohort, Jason Stewart this
past week has two running backs that he started, where
(20:34):
Josh Jacobs and Jalen Warren. Neither of them finished a game.
And you're kind of sol at that, you know, on
that part. So no matter how good the rest of
the team is, you're kind of working from behind. When
that happens, and then your season's over with, Whereas if
you had both of those players on your fantasy team,
you just say, Okay, well I didn't win this week.
I can come back and bounce back next week. So
there's a lot of weang of that. But it's the
(20:56):
weighing as well of my attention span. And that's why
I just the Survivor Pool was great for me because
it's just one game. It's one pick. It's just pick it,
and you can use a lot of time on it.
You can not think about it. It all depends on
really and what works in your life. And so there's
so many different ways to just to try to have
(21:18):
fun with this. And this is only we only have
eighteen weeks of the seventeen weeks of it, right, you know,
and then when it's gone, it's gone. So trying to
maximize it and finding that balance is so key. And
if you can find one that isn't maybe as high
interest or you know, high intensity, I think that works
for some people.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Yeah, it's one of the things we've talked about a lot.
You know, that back end of the season fantasy playoffs.
Once the playoffs, like say only four teams make the playoffs,
everybody else is done. So trying to figure out side contes,
side hustles that keep things going. I know Week eighteen.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Is a mess.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
I would argue Week twelve, as we talk about earlier
in the week recapping week eleven, the number of injuries
and craters. I mean, you just talked about Jason Stewart
squad in the Guillotine League, right, I mean that's two
starting running backs. Add the number of quarterbacks that have
been felled and whatever, and teams are a shell of
themselves right now going I'm basically done right with the
(22:19):
number of season ending injuries, ir reports and everything else.
But you know, it's trying to figure out how to
extend it to keep it entertaining. Be doing this as
long as I have, I've been able to whittle away
some of the leagues. Some of them just ended naturally
because some of the folks that started them all those
years ago have aged out. Unfortunately, some of them have
(22:40):
passed on and nobody picked up the mantle to keep
those alive. A lot of them were those magazine leagues
where you were literally drafting two weeks after the NFL
draft and really throwing darts at what free agency might
look like. Right, It's like, all right, I drafted this
guy presuming they'd pay him, hope they decided not to
and he's now gone to Cleveland, you know, I mean
(23:02):
those kind of things that happened.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
All across the board.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
But yeah, it's trying to find the the enjoyment and
time interest.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
You spend a lot of time with the survivor pick
and analyzing how to build out a grid, and that's
kind of what we do when you're looking at guillotine
to a degree, but you still have to survive that week.
So right, so like you're trying to balance those things.
All right, I can use the team here, but well
I like him in week twelve, but if I don't
(23:31):
make it to week twelve, it doesn't matter, you know, yeah,
absolutely so that that's part of the fun part of
the chaos. Add family things, add different work responsibilities depending
on what you'all do out there. Certainly, Dan and I,
you know, we pull a lot of strings during the
football season. You you have to move a lot more
deathly with the schedule and and what your responsibilities are
(23:52):
than I do. And you know, admired, you know how
you work it and take care of of your responsibilities. Dan,
but you know week to week that means that you
know you're time shifting as best you can to keep
things moving.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, there's you know, it's funny because when the NC
DOUBLEA tournament comes around, and that's what I, you know,
was was telling Ian about the the survivor aspect. Where
I really got hooked was the NC DOUBLEA tournament. And
one of the reasons is because we've all been there
where you filled out a bracket and you lose your
final four team or your national championship in the first round,
(24:28):
you know, two gets upset by a fifteen and you're like,
oh wow, that was that was it? Like, that's that's it.
I'm done now.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Sure I was able to buy one pack of trading
cards out of this, Like I didn't get a guy recognize.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, now, you can fill out various brackets. But then again,
you're cheering for a bunch of outcomes, and I get that.
The survivor format is the same thing where like you
could be done right away. However, uh, if you win
and there are other people who are done right away,
it's much more exciting. Or you have multiple entries. Most
(25:07):
people say, all right, maximum two or three, and you
can vary it that way. Most survivor NFL pools are
are multiple entry if you if you want to, so
you can have fun that way. But it was just
a different way of enjoying the tournament and then as
the games go on, it's even more entertaining. And so
(25:27):
that's how it just this kind of all works out.
And it's the same thing with the NFL. And you know,
I don't know the greatest way of the NBA. I
think that there's ways to do it. But I've talked
to you about the baseball survivor pool that I'm in
and mentioned it earlier. And you know, people have been
playing Fantasy Baseball long and than really any other you know,
fantasy format that there is. So it's just figuring out
(25:49):
different ways to enjoy these sports in these seasons that
you know that that you can keep yourself interested in
and have fun with.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Well it's funny, you know, you talk about the history
of stuff, right you got and this was part of
the the aforementioned book that's out there somewhere. Maybe I
should just photo copy some of the pages and put
them up online because they kept a couple of copies
of it, but you know you got seventy nine is
when rotisserie baseball really takes off and it becomes a
big thing. Right, So baseball was what we knew, right
(26:18):
passing spreadsheets back and forth. Maybe it was the USA
today you basically fought about or was it you know,
Baseball weekly? Which statue were going to use as your
official thing? Your commissioner had to do a lot of work,
probably didn't get compensated fully for the time, but they
were kind of nuts about the game, so they were
more than happy to do it. That sounds familiar about
(26:39):
a lot of the things we do in our lives.
But you know football, actually there was a group that
did all the way back in the sixties with the AFL.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Oh wow, it was a bunch of Raiders people.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
No no, but like baseball was what became like well
known and GLU. But but they could trace back to
the Raiders and beat writers and folks and you can
only use AFL players And they would have a draft
and do that because it forced them to really dig
in on the other teams. And you know, everybody likes
(27:11):
a little bit of side action. Yeah, who was paying
for this? Round at the bar based on the week's
results and whatever. So yeah, it's just kind of crazy
and doing some of that research and talking to folks
back in the day. God, I don't want to get
it wrong, but I think it was eventually the personnel
people from the Packers right who built some of those
(27:33):
monster teams, were in their youth with those Raider squads
and they were the ones that kind of came up
with the.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Scoring format and stuff.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
So it all ties together as much as the NFL
really didn't want it to for the longest of times,
and then they realized how much money they were all
missing out on.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, this all happened long before the Houston Texans became
a franchise. I did find out on a TikTok that
like five or six other professional teams were named Texans.
I knew the Dallas Texans, I knew of that one,
but apparently there were others as well. But the Houston
Texans didn't come about until two thousand and two. They
host the Bills coming up on Thursday night the start
(28:14):
week twelve, and I guess I don't know where to
start because Josh Allen's throwing to everybody except keyan Coleman
who can't show up to meetings, and Davis Mills now
now the man in Houston and leading them them to
that Week eleven victory against the Tennessee Titans, that that
titan of a team. But we got Bills Texans coming
(28:36):
up on Thursday night.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Kay, as we always say, one of two, seventy two
on the slate, what is it a five and a
half point road favorite? As we sit here to record
and chat this out, forty three and a half the
total Coleman and what was funny? I don't know if
you saw the Dion Dawkins comments. It's like we're not
here to hold anybody's hands or slap them on the
back anymore. It's big boys time now. So it'll be
(29:01):
curious to see how much he reintegrates. But I mean,
Josh Allen seems sure as hell happy to have Gabe
Davis back down field, so he's one of those guys
that'll be part of the waiver wire barrage for Week twelve.
But Allen with the six touchdowns moving the ball effectively
against the Tampa d But I mean, here's a huge
(29:22):
test because Tampa, or I should say, Houston's defense has
been great. Offensively, just enough to get over the hump.
And you know, as you say, just win ugly is
just fine and keep yourself alive and see if you
can't make some noise down the stretch. But you know,
for the texts Texans, I mean, Nico Collins continues to
get a healthy work share, don't Schultz, if you're playing
(29:45):
in a traditional league with tight ends, still sees enough
action running backs?
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Do we bet on Woody Marks as a flex or
a back end too?
Speaker 5 (29:55):
You know that kind of thing. I don't know how
comfortable I am, because I think it ends up becoming
a field goal contest for them.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, yeah, the volume is there for Woody Marx. It's
just as the production there. And we've had questions about
that offensive line protecting CJ. Stroud or lack thereof. And
it's not like they've been opening holes for their running backs,
whether it be Nick Chubb or Woody Mark.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah, I mean, all we can ask for is volume.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Buffalo's the top ten defense on the other side as well,
when you took about points per game, So if we're
still going to get fifteen to twenty touches, you got
to play them, right, there's been enough of a hey
he may break when you'd love to see him be
more of a pass part of the passing game for Mars.
Just one target this last week in what should have
(30:42):
been a plus situation that way against Tennessee. As they
eke out that sixteenth, I mean they're back to five hundred.
That's the crazy thing. As bad, as poorly as they've played,
as ugly as it's been at times, it's the beauty
of the National Football League normalizing back towards five hundred.
But yeah, I mean Mills there, there's there's no chance,
(31:04):
I mean absolute desperation play, you know, unless you're just
going to team him up with Nico Collins and wishing hope.
But for the Josh Allen side of things, it's interesting
trying to parse through the receiving corps to really hammer
down on an individual.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I think like the Tyrrell Shavers one is more
of a of a right, you're not going to get
a week in and week out.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
That's one of the great names of the week right
coming out of San Diego State. There eleven catches on
the year now for one hundred and seventy two. But
you know, the the incredulity of wait, what right, And
Shakira had one catch for minus three yards.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yes, well that's one catch. Yeah. I was looking at
a guy's roster, you know, this week in my league,
and I'm like, wait a second, is that correct? Like
is that an It was, and you would have thought, well,
with Keon Coleman out, Shakie's gonna feast. Uh he did not.
He went on a diet.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yeah, that was That was a game I had, Uh,
my daughter had a soccer game. So for part of
that window, I was in the car and the Bills
game was one of the national broadcast games that showed
up on one of our iHeart affiliates.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
So listen to it.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
And when he caught the ball for minus three yards,
even the announcers like, that's the and there was just
long pause.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
That's his first catch in the game.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
And that was pretty deep in the game, like that
was not you know, hey, first ball, let's get him involved.
So it's that that's moderately concerning. We've talked about Shakir
a lot. Just like the Woody Mark side of things,
it's generally you get volume, whether you get you know
that ceiling is fairly low. Most weeks. But the floor
(33:00):
meets it right, It's you're sitting in that sweet nine
to fourteen range most weeks. Unfortunately, this week against Tampa,
you'd see that final score. No coleman as you say,
like someone had to eat like no not.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
In Yeah, well, hey it's football on a Thursday night.
Next week we've got the Thanksgiving week. Just a programming reminder,
you're only going to get two episodes. If I want
your flex on Thanksgiving week, we'll give you our full
rankings episode that we always do. It'll just come a
little bit earlier because of the three games on Thursday
and the game on Black Friday. But that is for
(33:36):
next week and for week twelve ahead. Just remember, yeah,
the Miami Dolphins, despite that great victory in Spain over
the Commanders, both of those teams will be getting the
week off. So the Dolphins, unable to carry into momentum
Denver's winning streak is gonna have to wait a week
because they're on buy and the Chargers they probably wish
they just didn't show up to Jacksonville, but there on Buy.
(33:57):
In week twelve as well, that was a rough.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
One, an I know, getting the ice tubs, all those
offensive linemen. Figure out the restorative values so you can
keep Justin Herbert from getting broken in hands.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Oh they need it. Hey, they may have bigger fish
to fry, but you can't be dropping games like they
did on Sunday. At least did that embarrassing fast anyway.
All right, that'll do it for us. Here and I
want your flex. He is Mike Krmen. I'm Dan Byer.
Thanks to our executive Ian Roddy. Executive producer Ian Roddy.
We'll be back later of the week with our week
twelve rankings. Next episode here and I want your flex. Bye.
Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
You want experience during your football season, well, buckle up,
sweet cheeks. We've got all the experience in the world.
This is I Want your Flex with Dan Bayer and
Mike Harmon. Mike and Dan break down everything you need
to set your lineups, from position rankings.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
To starts and sits.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
The guys help you make those hard decisions. And now
let's get your flex. Od here's Dan Bayer and Mike Harmon.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome too. I want your Flex. He is Mike Harmon,
but he's not here right now. You can find Mike
at Swollen Dom, you can find me at Dan Byer
on Fox, and you can find our executive producer, Ian
Roddy at Ian Roddy Underscore. Ian is with me. It
is a midweek edition in Son of California. We've been
battered with rain schedules here and there and trying to navigate.
(00:55):
So it's going to be Ian Roddy and myself for
the next ten minutes and then Ian and Mike and
hit it up, give a little Thursday night preview and
whatnot after that. But the reason also for this I
guess special midweek episode if you will, is every weekend
I want your flex. I give a survivor pick. I
give it points to Paloosa as well. Ied you've got
the streaming defenses. But the survivor pick is one that's
(01:18):
outside the realm of what we normally do for fantasy football.
Mike's got his rankings, He's got the hot plays, the
cold soares sid starts, if you will, the whole shebang
on how you would fill out your lineup. But the
reason that I chose to do a survivor pick is
number one. Mike's information on players is unmatched. So we
(01:38):
are not going to challenge Mike and his rankings and
his hot plays and his cold soars for any other
reason except Mike knows what he's talking about. I feel
Ian and myself do as well. But Mike has done
this for decades. That is his that is his avenue.
So if I can carve out a little layane of
some fun and why we have fantasy, or how you
(01:59):
can have fun during a football season in a different
form of fantasy or just in a different way, it's
good to do that as well. And that's what survivor
pools have provided for me. Do you play any survivor pools?
Ian have you been in any and any sport whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
No, I never have, never have I didn't. I'm I'm interested.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
They have been. They have been going on for years
and years and years, and there's different ways to do it,
and there's different forms to do it. The survivor pool
that hooked me, and I had done NFL previous years,
but the NFL wasn't the ultimate survivor hook for me.
(02:39):
Circa's got their enormous, enormous survivor pool with you know,
millions of dollars up for grabs that so many people
talk about and will follow throughout the year. What hooked
me was an NCAA tournament survivor pool. Okay, And for
those that are wondering, if you are wondering what a
survivor pool is, it's essentially, you pick one team each
(03:02):
week of the NFL season and if they win, you
move on to the next week, but you can't use
that team again. If you lose, you're done. There is
a finality to it that is so appealing ian yet
so scary. But like in fantasy when you're watching the
game and maybe you're up eight points heading into Monday
night football and the other player that you've got has
(03:25):
got one of the players, Well, you're watching the game
to make sure that player doesn't have eight points, or
if there's a rival maybe in your division if you
have divisions in fantasy, you're watching those other games because
you don't want that player to win the game. So
you have an interest in what Monday night football is
even if your teams aren't playing. Survivor provides that as well,
because you can see who everybody else picked, and when
(03:49):
there's a team that is picked by a bunch of
players that is on the ropes are losing, there is
nothing better, and there's just something to be There's something
for being so simple if you know what I'm talking about, huh,
and providing so much fun. That is just so appealing
to me because it sounds so easy. Maybe it's kind
(04:11):
of golf. Maybe I like golf and that's the reason why.
But golf, it's all just Paul is sitting there, go
and hit it, and is anything but that. But that's
kind of like my start in Survivor pools is I
got addicted not by the NFL, but by March Madness
Survivor pools where you pick a team and if they
move on to the next round. That's great, and you
(04:33):
can't use that team again. But what that did is
it just provided me this whole new view on it
because there were so many different things that you had
to look at in a March Madness pool. If you
took say a Duke team, and you took them like
the first Thursday, well what about if Duke runs all
the way to the national championship and you've already picked them, Well,
(04:53):
then you're out of the pool. So it took strategy.
So it was that's what opened my eyes to survivor pools.
Was actually nothing done by the NFL. It was done
because of college basketball. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So once you've picked a team, if I'm understanding it correctly,
you can't pick them again for the rest of the season, correct.
So yeah, I mean I get, I get that there's
some some strategy to that, because it's like, Okay, you
don't want to pick the team if we're talking NFL,
you don't want to pick the team that you see,
you know, winning a lot of games late in the season,
because you want to be able to save them for
when they have Like you got to look at the
entire schedule of a team to make like to pick.
(05:26):
At what point in the season you want to say, like,
this is this this is the week that I'm absolutely
certain they're going to win.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, And then you have to think, all right, if
I'm not gonna pick, and let's just use the Eagles
and Titans because that was last year's Super Bowl champ
and the worst team in the NFL. If Eagles Titans
were playing Week one, you'd be like, well, Eagles are,
what a fifteen point favorite? So I'll just take the Eagles.
But to that point of you don't want to use
(05:53):
the Eagles just on that one. However, it's finding the
matchups within the matchups that make it interesting. And last
year in the National Football League we talk about this
year off. Yeah, you just don't know anything. Last year
there was so much carnage in the first three weeks
of the season of team's favorites being upset that I
(06:16):
know many a survivor pool that started over after three
weeks didn't yours.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I kind of remember that, didn't you guys.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Get a reset? I got knocked out of a pool,
and I remember it. It was the Jaden Daniels Commanders
Bengals Monday night game when the Commanders didn't punt, and honestly,
I think it was the Jaden Daniels really like coming
out party. They had lost in Week one to the Buccaneers,
which I had picked against the Commanders, like rookie quarterback,
you're going up against a tough Bucks defense. See. I
(06:43):
even remember my survivor picked from Week one of last
year and why I thought it out. But then you're thinking, Okay,
well the Commanders are bad. Bengals should be. Bengals are
a pretty good team, but I don't know if they're
going to be able to win a super Bowl because
of the defense. Anyway, I got knocked out, and that
because and I was the only one. Is the point
of it is there was so much carnage not only
(07:04):
from that game, but from what happened in week one
of the season and what happened in Week two that
the survivor pools ended up starting over. But there's just
this there's this fine line, and the reason why I
wanted to talk about it here is because there's also
the ebbs and flows of the season. In weeks one
and two. You wouldn't dare take the Green Bay Packers
right because look at how dominating Green Bay looks.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
But now it's looking like you should have correct.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I haven't used the Packers yet. I have no idea
when in the world I'm going.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
To actually terrified to use them at this point in season.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And that's the other point of this. When you're looking
at matchups, you can talk yourself into or out of
anything because it's just just pick one and don't get
it wrong. And that's what I just find so appealing
and so fun with it. And I give you a
pick each week, and I'm not gonna be able to
sit there and say, all right, I'm giving you the
Eagles here in week twelve, because you probably have used
(07:57):
the Eagles up. You've probably probably used the Colts up
at this point. But the Colts are interesting just for
the fact of we didn't expect them to be a
great team and now they're a greater team than we are.
I'm in a survivor pool that's got about ninety some
people left, and only six people still have the Colts
(08:19):
because people thought, well, the Colts are good. They're good
enough to beat that team, but they're not good enough
that I don't want to save them along the way.
So those are all the ebbs and flows of survivor pools.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like with the Colts
in particular, they must have just kind of thrown a
wrench into a lot of people's season long plans because
they'd be a team that going into the year you
would think like, okay, I would have that circled for
you know, if there's a really good team playing them
late in the year, you're like, going into this season,
you're like, oh, yeah, I have that circle. That's when
I'm going to play that. I wish I had a
specific matchup, but like, if the Chiefs are playing the
(08:49):
Colts going into the year, you're like, yes, Chiefs versus Colts,
that's an automatic win for the Chiefs. Now, we don't
know anything like that's not Take the Colts.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And that's a perfect matchup because they play in Week twelve.
Coming out there, you go, yeah, there, you would look.
You would think, and what I looked at, and it's
I took the Chiefs in a survivor pool. To that point,
Ian I took the Chiefs in a survivor pool in
Week three when they were oher and two and at
New York. I said, there's no other Chiefs are going
to own three. Yeah, but honestly, if the Chiefs aren't
(09:19):
are this bad or aren't as good as they were previously,
because they were zero and two at that time. I
looked at their schedule and I said, so, this is
two weeks in and this is just after the Colts
escaped against the Broncos because of that penalty on the
field goal. So we really didn't The Colts had beat
Miami in week one, and what's the big deal. We
didn't think Miami was good at all. I looked at
(09:40):
the schedule, to your point and thought to myself, well,
the only other time I would probably pick the Chiefs
would be at home against the Colts in week twelve.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So you said the Chiefs for this, No, I used.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Them against the Giants that game, and I want I
was able to advance one of my entries. But that's
that's the thought pro of it. And there's so many
different ways to go down, and you can look and
sites that do it well give you the option to
see who's available. Who was picked two, and you should
have about four if you're still alive, you should have
(10:13):
about four or five good teams and maybe in the
last two or three weeks, you're gonna have to play matchups.
But we've talked about your Jets. I believe the Jets.
They have the Titans and Saints on the schedule. There's
a triangle of where the Saints and Titans, I know, play,
so you're probably gonna get a lot of Saints picks
(10:34):
on that one. Okay, So the Saints, by the way,
in this pool where there's ninety three entries still left,
ninety two excuse me, ninety three people are left, eighty
nine have picked this. I have not picked the Saints yet.
I want of four people who have picked the Saints
to actually win and they beat the Giants. When they
(10:55):
beat the Giants, I picked the Saints that week.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Wait, so do you have to pick the Saints at
some point in the scene.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Not necessarily. That's the other thing is there's going to
be what fourteen teams from the thirty two that you
don't pick at all. It's really fascinating and when you
get into it now, I'll probably get bounced by you know,
at some point I started with six entries and only
have one left. So there are five. The Bengals and
(11:20):
they lost to the Jets. That was a big one.
It was on that same day that the Falcons lost
to the Dolphins. So you see people trying to pick
middle of the road teams against bad teams, and I'll
always talk about the reason on why I'm thinking of
this matchup in that matchup. But there's just so many
different ways to go about it. It's a fun way
to play, and just wanted to shed a little light
(11:42):
into why we always do a survivor pick and why
I just think it's fun in fantasy football.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know, I actually needed this, Dan. I've never actually
just sat down and learned about what a survivor league
really is. I've kind of known the basic premise of it,
but this is God, think I'm gonna join one next.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
There's another angle to it. I was talking to a
cousin of mine a couple of years ago. They do
it the reverse way, where the team has to lose,
so you pick one team each week that you are
sure to lose. So if you took the Titans, say
Week one, you couldn't pick the Titans anymore. It's a
(12:18):
different way of looking at it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yeah, So it's like, who, what teams do you think
are going to absolutely suck this year?
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Just pick that.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Wow, But it's I almost want to try that way.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I know. I actually was really intrigued by it as well.
I'm like, is this the easier way to do it?
If you're just trying to trying to pick the winners
as opposed to trying to pick the losers.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It's the Jets in me, because well.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I would just say this, there's there's more of a
known with the winning teams then there would be with
the losing teams, right Like, there's more like there's more
of there's more of that along the way, maybe you
would take the Lions in a week eleven matchup because
they're at Philadelphia because you're like, a, that's a tough
(13:01):
spot for them. Maybe that's where you would take like
a better team. But I think that it just shows
you there's different ways to do it. I've done it
with baseball. There's a baseball pool that I'm in where
you if a team it's for a week, and if
a team has a five hundred record or better, you
move on to the next week and you get three
strikes during the year. So if you get one wrong,
it's one you're at least active for a couple of
(13:21):
weeks sometimes have gone to August, another time have been
out by June. Because things are just you know, heads
over heels. But a lot of picking Againza it used
to be. Now it won't be with the Paul Skins
and the Pirates' pitching crew. But you get people to
pick against the Pirates, pick against the A's. They got
a three game set against the A's, you'd be able to, oh,
(13:42):
I'm going to take that team. That's how you would
move along with doing it. But there's a bunch of
different ways to do it. I know some daily gaming
stuff has stuff with the NBA where you have twenty
points scorers was one of the contests that I saw
on one of the games where you pick a player
each night. If they have twenty points, you move on
to the next round and continue. So there's a lot
of different ways that you can do it.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
What a time to be a sports Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Absolutely absolutely. For someone like me who loves drafts, I've
always loved drafts, this opened up a whole new world
for me of like, Okay, what's a different way that
I can consume sports? And survivor pools are ways of
doing so.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You know, I'm in five fantasy football leagues right now,
and I wonder if I should just like chop off
a few of those and you know, report maybe go
four fantasy leagues next year, one survivor league and just
see how that I'll.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Leave it like this, it's not even nearly as.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Much of time commitment, correct, And we still.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Want you to listen. I want your flex so we're
not trying to move you away from that. But it's
also the game that you picked that week. You are
locked in, like you like that is the game there
could be could be It could be Chiefs Broncos, could
be Seahawks Rams. But if you picked the Ravens to
beat the Browns in Week eleven, that's what you were watching,
like you were focused in on that one, especially if
(14:54):
you're this late in the season.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Anything anything like that in sports, that just gives you
the chance to feel like a genius. There's there's there's
a value in that as a sports fan for sure.
And I think like you're you're You're the way you
navigate the Chiefs Giants thing, you just come out feeling
like a genius.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
After that you do, yeah, absolutely, And now like the
two people that have the Colts left because most people
don't in this certain pool like they feel like they're
way ahead of the game. But here's the question, if
the Colts played their best football of the season, like
was the time to use it early on? And now
are they It's all of those factors that that play
in that make it so much fun. So still TBD
(15:31):
on that. Yes, yes, you and Harmor are going to
talk a little Thursday night football bills and Texan's coming
up on Thursday and talk some more fantasy wise, So
we appreciate it. With this rainy, soggy weather, just with
connections and whatnot, we were able to put this together
to you for our midweek episode, so will be back
with more. I'm Dan Pyre. It's right here, and I
want your flex. It is I want your flex. He's
(15:55):
Mike Carmen. I'm Dan Bayer. We got no Ian Roddy here,
so that's our mix up here, but hey, hit Ian
up on X if you want it Ian Roddy Underscore.
You can always find Mike at Swollen Doman. While I
just tried to lax poetically about my love of survivor pools, Mike,
whether it be in college basketball, major League baseball, or
the National Football League. You have been in this industry
(16:18):
for a long time. You've seen games come and go.
We talk very highly about the Guillotine League format and
how that has become a fixed uere at Fox Sports
Radio and whatnot. But there's just so many other ways
where you can enjoy a fantasy branch, if you will,
of the National Football League or other sports aside from
(16:41):
just maybe placing a bet on game. There's just so
many other ways to enjoy the National Football League.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Well, I mean, what spot of time.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
It's nearly twenty years ago, Dan, I actually had a
book published. Yes, they contracted me to write a book.
It's sold out quickly. Five thousand gobbies right are out
there somewhere as Kimling or at the bottom on the landfill.
But it was about everything as we had the explosion
of the fantasy realm, and certainly fantasy football was the
(17:08):
biggest thing. And at Yahoo, when the industry went paid for,
we stayed free, which meant anybody that just wanted to
dabble a little bit, they came into the waters with
us and hung out a little while. Eventually you need
to make some money, so that's when the stat.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Tracker, the Great.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Guy guys and the Java guys got together and we
had what became the Killer app because everyone wanted live scoring. Well,
if you had to pay a couple hundred bucks for
your league to be on insert league service here, well
at ours you could play for free, but if you
wanted the stats, you know, it was either ten bucks
a person or one hundred for the league, and you
(17:48):
got your live update, and it was a better user
interface and all of those things. We did it the
old drug dealer model. Hey, test this out, see if
you like it, and then all of a sudden week
two it didn't work, and people like, where's my stats? Like, well,
we warned you cough it up, So you know, it
was that kind of thing. But it was still much
cheaper than the other versions and it worked much better.
(18:11):
So we had that. Then you add golf and auto racing,
which had the strange world because of the I mean,
and you know this with golf, right, you got folks
that are fans.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Of a golfer. You had people in NASCAR that you.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
Know, they were earn harder, earn hard junior fans, and
everybody else could go to hell. So but but you
didn't want a game whereby it became the setate and
forget it. So for golf purposes, all right, if you
had four active golfers, guess what, everybody was gonna pick
Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson. So there's two spots gone.
So we made it to where you had limits per
(18:46):
half of the season. So for the first eighteen events
or thereabouts. From the NASCAR side and about the same
for golf, it was all right. You could pick from
a list, B list, C list, and we did our
best to kind of parse it out based on endings
and histories. But it forced folks to churn over and
it became pretty popular and then started to spin out
(19:07):
into trivia games based on Survivor and all sorts of
other things, which I mean, and that's where we are
at this point. Almost every reality show has some form
of game element online, and certainly for fantasy purposes, Survivor
and Guillotine have gone into another stratosphere.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, this is the this is the other wang of it.
Because I think we've all heard from buddies, I'm in
too many leagues, sure, And I didn't think it was
true until I got into too many leagues or just
had too many things on my plate, and it's different
for everybody. There's also a point, Mike of just all right,
am I chearing for everybody in the NFL or cheering
(19:48):
against everybody in the NFL because I've got it so
many sure, you know, right? Like you know on Monday night,
I have Seed Lamb on one team and then I'm
playing against them in another. And we all experience that
sort of thing when you have multiple teams. But even
when there's multiple ways of doing it, which is why
I like the I like the diversity of say a
(20:12):
Guillotine League. Now I'm not in love with the absolute format.
I don't think that takes skill and intelligence, and maybe
fantasy football doesn't. I believe that it does. I think
that there's ways that you can get edges and advantages.
I'm not sure how much there is in Guillotine where
if you have you know, our cohort, Jason Stewart this
past week has two running backs that he started, where
(20:34):
Josh Jacobs and Jalen Warren. Neither of them finished a game.
And you're kind of sol at that, you know, on
that part. So no matter how good the rest of
the team is, you're kind of working from behind. When
that happens, and then your season's over with, Whereas if
you had both of those players on your fantasy team,
you just say, Okay, well I didn't win this week.
I can come back and bounce back next week. So
there's a lot of weang of that. But it's the
(20:56):
weighing as well of my attention span. And that's why
I just the Survivor Pool was great for me because
it's just one game. It's one pick. It's just pick it,
and you can use a lot of time on it.
You can not think about it. It all depends on
really and what works in your life. And so there's
so many different ways to just to try to have
(21:18):
fun with this. And this is only we only have
eighteen weeks of the seventeen weeks of it, right, you know,
and then when it's gone, it's gone. So trying to
maximize it and finding that balance is so key. And
if you can find one that isn't maybe as high
interest or you know, high intensity, I think that works
for some people.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Yeah, it's one of the things we've talked about a lot.
You know, that back end of the season fantasy playoffs.
Once the playoffs, like say only four teams make the playoffs,
everybody else is done. So trying to figure out side contes,
side hustles that keep things going. I know Week eighteen.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Is a mess.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
I would argue Week twelve, as we talk about earlier
in the week recapping week eleven, the number of injuries
and craters. I mean, you just talked about Jason Stewart
squad in the Guillotine League, right, I mean that's two
starting running backs. Add the number of quarterbacks that have
been felled and whatever, and teams are a shell of
themselves right now going I'm basically done right with the
(22:19):
number of season ending injuries, ir reports and everything else.
But you know, it's trying to figure out how to
extend it to keep it entertaining. Be doing this as
long as I have, I've been able to whittle away
some of the leagues. Some of them just ended naturally
because some of the folks that started them all those
years ago have aged out. Unfortunately, some of them have
(22:40):
passed on and nobody picked up the mantle to keep
those alive. A lot of them were those magazine leagues
where you were literally drafting two weeks after the NFL
draft and really throwing darts at what free agency might
look like. Right, It's like, all right, I drafted this
guy presuming they'd pay him, hope they decided not to
and he's now gone to Cleveland, you know, I mean
(23:02):
those kind of things that happened.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
All across the board.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
But yeah, it's trying to find the the enjoyment and
time interest.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
You spend a lot of time with the survivor pick
and analyzing how to build out a grid, and that's
kind of what we do when you're looking at guillotine
to a degree, but you still have to survive that week.
So right, so like you're trying to balance those things.
All right, I can use the team here, but well
I like him in week twelve, but if I don't
(23:31):
make it to week twelve, it doesn't matter, you know, yeah,
absolutely so that that's part of the fun part of
the chaos. Add family things, add different work responsibilities depending
on what you'all do out there. Certainly, Dan and I,
you know, we pull a lot of strings during the
football season. You you have to move a lot more
deathly with the schedule and and what your responsibilities are
(23:52):
than I do. And you know, admired, you know how
you work it and take care of of your responsibilities. Dan,
but you know week to week that means that you
know you're time shifting as best you can to keep
things moving.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, there's you know, it's funny because when the NC
DOUBLEA tournament comes around, and that's what I, you know,
was was telling Ian about the the survivor aspect. Where
I really got hooked was the NC DOUBLEA tournament. And
one of the reasons is because we've all been there
where you filled out a bracket and you lose your
final four team or your national championship in the first round,
(24:28):
you know, two gets upset by a fifteen and you're like,
oh wow, that was that was it? Like, that's that's it.
I'm done now.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Sure I was able to buy one pack of trading
cards out of this, Like I didn't get a guy recognize.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, now, you can fill out various brackets. But then again,
you're cheering for a bunch of outcomes, and I get that.
The survivor format is the same thing where like you
could be done right away. However, uh, if you win
and there are other people who are done right away,
it's much more exciting. Or you have multiple entries. Most
(25:07):
people say, all right, maximum two or three, and you
can vary it that way. Most survivor NFL pools are
are multiple entry if you if you want to, so
you can have fun that way. But it was just
a different way of enjoying the tournament and then as
the games go on, it's even more entertaining. And so
(25:27):
that's how it just this kind of all works out.
And it's the same thing with the NFL. And you know,
I don't know the greatest way of the NBA. I
think that there's ways to do it. But I've talked
to you about the baseball survivor pool that I'm in
and mentioned it earlier. And you know, people have been
playing Fantasy Baseball long and than really any other you know,
fantasy format that there is. So it's just figuring out
(25:49):
different ways to enjoy these sports in these seasons that
you know that that you can keep yourself interested in
and have fun with.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Well it's funny, you know, you talk about the history
of stuff, right you got and this was part of
the the aforementioned book that's out there somewhere. Maybe I
should just photo copy some of the pages and put
them up online because they kept a couple of copies
of it, but you know you got seventy nine is
when rotisserie baseball really takes off and it becomes a
big thing. Right, So baseball was what we knew, right
(26:18):
passing spreadsheets back and forth. Maybe it was the USA
today you basically fought about or was it you know,
Baseball weekly? Which statue were going to use as your
official thing? Your commissioner had to do a lot of work,
probably didn't get compensated fully for the time, but they
were kind of nuts about the game, so they were
more than happy to do it. That sounds familiar about
(26:39):
a lot of the things we do in our lives.
But you know football, actually there was a group that
did all the way back in the sixties with the AFL.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Oh wow, it was a bunch of Raiders people.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
No no, but like baseball was what became like well
known and GLU. But but they could trace back to
the Raiders and beat writers and folks and you can
only use AFL players And they would have a draft
and do that because it forced them to really dig
in on the other teams. And you know, everybody likes
(27:11):
a little bit of side action. Yeah, who was paying
for this? Round at the bar based on the week's
results and whatever. So yeah, it's just kind of crazy
and doing some of that research and talking to folks
back in the day. God, I don't want to get
it wrong, but I think it was eventually the personnel
people from the Packers right who built some of those
(27:33):
monster teams, were in their youth with those Raider squads
and they were the ones that kind of came up
with the.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Scoring format and stuff.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
So it all ties together as much as the NFL
really didn't want it to for the longest of times,
and then they realized how much money they were all
missing out on.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, this all happened long before the Houston Texans became
a franchise. I did find out on a TikTok that
like five or six other professional teams were named Texans.
I knew the Dallas Texans, I knew of that one,
but apparently there were others as well. But the Houston
Texans didn't come about until two thousand and two. They
host the Bills coming up on Thursday night the start
(28:14):
week twelve, and I guess I don't know where to
start because Josh Allen's throwing to everybody except keyan Coleman
who can't show up to meetings, and Davis Mills now
now the man in Houston and leading them them to
that Week eleven victory against the Tennessee Titans, that that
titan of a team. But we got Bills Texans coming
(28:36):
up on Thursday night.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Kay, as we always say, one of two, seventy two
on the slate, what is it a five and a
half point road favorite? As we sit here to record
and chat this out, forty three and a half the
total Coleman and what was funny? I don't know if
you saw the Dion Dawkins comments. It's like we're not
here to hold anybody's hands or slap them on the
back anymore. It's big boys time now. So it'll be
(29:01):
curious to see how much he reintegrates. But I mean,
Josh Allen seems sure as hell happy to have Gabe
Davis back down field, so he's one of those guys
that'll be part of the waiver wire barrage for Week twelve.
But Allen with the six touchdowns moving the ball effectively
against the Tampa d But I mean, here's a huge
(29:22):
test because Tampa, or I should say, Houston's defense has
been great. Offensively, just enough to get over the hump.
And you know, as you say, just win ugly is
just fine and keep yourself alive and see if you
can't make some noise down the stretch. But you know,
for the texts Texans, I mean, Nico Collins continues to
get a healthy work share, don't Schultz, if you're playing
(29:45):
in a traditional league with tight ends, still sees enough
action running backs?
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Do we bet on Woody Marks as a flex or
a back end too?
Speaker 5 (29:55):
You know that kind of thing. I don't know how
comfortable I am, because I think it ends up becoming
a field goal contest for them.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, yeah, the volume is there for Woody Marx. It's
just as the production there. And we've had questions about
that offensive line protecting CJ. Stroud or lack thereof. And
it's not like they've been opening holes for their running backs,
whether it be Nick Chubb or Woody Mark.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah, I mean, all we can ask for is volume.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Buffalo's the top ten defense on the other side as well,
when you took about points per game, So if we're
still going to get fifteen to twenty touches, you got
to play them, right, there's been enough of a hey
he may break when you'd love to see him be
more of a pass part of the passing game for Mars.
Just one target this last week in what should have
(30:42):
been a plus situation that way against Tennessee. As they
eke out that sixteenth, I mean they're back to five hundred.
That's the crazy thing. As bad, as poorly as they've played,
as ugly as it's been at times, it's the beauty
of the National Football League normalizing back towards five hundred.
But yeah, I mean Mills there, there's there's no chance,
(31:04):
I mean absolute desperation play, you know, unless you're just
going to team him up with Nico Collins and wishing hope.
But for the Josh Allen side of things, it's interesting
trying to parse through the receiving corps to really hammer
down on an individual.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I think like the Tyrrell Shavers one is more
of a of a right, you're not going to get
a week in and week out.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
That's one of the great names of the week right
coming out of San Diego State. There eleven catches on
the year now for one hundred and seventy two. But
you know, the the incredulity of wait, what right, And
Shakira had one catch for minus three yards.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yes, well that's one catch. Yeah. I was looking at
a guy's roster, you know, this week in my league,
and I'm like, wait a second, is that correct? Like
is that an It was, and you would have thought, well,
with Keon Coleman out, Shakie's gonna feast. Uh he did not.
He went on a diet.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yeah, that was That was a game I had, Uh,
my daughter had a soccer game. So for part of
that window, I was in the car and the Bills
game was one of the national broadcast games that showed
up on one of our iHeart affiliates.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
So listen to it.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
And when he caught the ball for minus three yards,
even the announcers like, that's the and there was just
long pause.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
That's his first catch in the game.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
And that was pretty deep in the game, like that
was not you know, hey, first ball, let's get him involved.
So it's that that's moderately concerning. We've talked about Shakir
a lot. Just like the Woody Mark side of things,
it's generally you get volume, whether you get you know
that ceiling is fairly low. Most weeks. But the floor
(33:00):
meets it right, It's you're sitting in that sweet nine
to fourteen range most weeks. Unfortunately, this week against Tampa,
you'd see that final score. No coleman as you say,
like someone had to eat like no not.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
In Yeah, well, hey it's football on a Thursday night.
Next week we've got the Thanksgiving week. Just a programming reminder,
you're only going to get two episodes. If I want
your flex on Thanksgiving week, we'll give you our full
rankings episode that we always do. It'll just come a
little bit earlier because of the three games on Thursday
and the game on Black Friday. But that is for
(33:36):
next week and for week twelve ahead. Just remember, yeah,
the Miami Dolphins, despite that great victory in Spain over
the Commanders, both of those teams will be getting the
week off. So the Dolphins, unable to carry into momentum
Denver's winning streak is gonna have to wait a week
because they're on buy and the Chargers they probably wish
they just didn't show up to Jacksonville, but there on Buy.
(33:57):
In week twelve as well, that was a rough.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
One, an I know, getting the ice tubs, all those
offensive linemen. Figure out the restorative values so you can
keep Justin Herbert from getting broken in hands.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Oh they need it. Hey, they may have bigger fish
to fry, but you can't be dropping games like they
did on Sunday. At least did that embarrassing fast anyway.
All right, that'll do it for us. Here and I
want your flex. He is Mike Krmen. I'm Dan Byer.
Thanks to our executive Ian Roddy. Executive producer Ian Roddy.
We'll be back later of the week with our week
twelve rankings. Next episode here and I want your flex. Bye.
Fox Sports Radio News
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Jonas Knox
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