June 24, 2025 • 52 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci look back at Padres/Dodgers and pitchers hitting players. Is having this be part of the game worth risking an injury to a star player? Joe explains why he's in favor of keeping this move. Looking at the College World Series, why did we see so many headlines around the managers of these teams? Tom highlights the young pitchers coming into the game quickly and why sometimes it makes sense!
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey Aaron, Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
To the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci
and Joe Madden and I cannot wait.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To talk to you Joe about the issue of.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Justice, book justice and frontier justice and when it comes
to baseball. You know what I'm talking about. The hit
by Pitchy had a lot of dust ups last week,
both involving Los Angeles teams, the Angels and the Dodgers. Joe,
I want to start with the La Dodgers San Diego
Padres last week because if you're watching the game Thursday,
(00:46):
you saw the greatest attraction in baseball and of our generation,
sho hey Otani hit by a pitch at ninety nine
point eight miles per hour that both the Dodgers and
Major League Baseball said was thrown intentionally by Robert Swarez.
What would make a pitcher throw a baseball at nearly
(01:07):
one hundred miles an hour at the greatest drawing card
in baseball. Well, it turns out it wasn't unintentional hit
by pitch for one of the Padres players, Fernando Tatis Junior.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Now Suarez, Robert Tuarez.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The pitcher who hit Otani, did say a couple of
days later. We at least the next day, Hey, man,
it wasn't intentional. I wasn't trying to hit him. I
don't think you're going to convince the Dodgers of that,
and Joe, you're not going to convince me of that.
That was a four seam fastball from a right handed
pitcher to a left handed hitter. That was the farthest
(01:42):
inside that Robert Suarez has ever thrown a four seam
fastball to a left handed hitter.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The count was three to zero.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
The Padres were tired of watching Fernando Tatist get hit
by pitches from the Dodgers, even if they acknowledged that
they were not intentional.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Show.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Hey, just to give you an idea, and you know this, Joe,
for seeing fastballs to off handed hitters, you just don't
see major league pitchers lose them to that side. Shohy
in his career, had been hit only four times on
four seemers from a right handed pitcher, never twice. In
the same year, he was hit two times in three
days on four seemers from Padre's right handers. Joe, my
(02:24):
personal opinion for this. I wish baseball would stop this nonsense,
this testosterone fueled and macho mann stuff. Hey, you hit
one of our guys and we know it wasn't intentional,
but just to get back at you and to quote
unquote protect my guy, I've got to fire one hundred
mile an hour seed up around your neck, which is
where Otani was hit, but really high on the shoulder.
(02:47):
I don't like it. I think actually the actual book justice,
which was three days suspension versuares which he appealed, should
be much longer that.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
That should actually be at least a week.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I look around the game today and see too many
star players shut down because they break bones on hit
by pitches. In this case, to me, it certainly looked intentional.
In any case, I think the penalty should be at
least a week. Suspicion, get way to get your take
on it, Joe, You've been in the dugout. You know
how emotions rage, and we know in the Dodgers Padres
(03:19):
series they certainly do.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah. First of all, I saw a little bit of
the replay. Yeah, it's intentional. Of course, it's intentional, but
they have to say it's not intentional. Or they do
get the week suspension or maybe even more than that,
So you have to have to play along a be
the tatisse things. Though I totally agree with something you
just said there in the sense that and you know
when it's unintentional, you know when a pitch gets away,
(03:42):
because I went through this with the Cubs, with the
Cardinals primarily, and then you know, we did it with
the Yankees and the Red Sox with the Rays, and
there was times that you know, we had some pretty
big fights. And the big one was with the Red
Sox by a pitch but Shieldsy hit Crisp Cocoa Crisp
and the thigh based on an incident the night before.
And the other one was play at the play they
(04:04):
didn't like in the spring training game. So the Yankees
then Shelley Duncan slid in a second base, spikes up
and he really got Aki more like kind of in
thigh high or even higher than that. It was obviously intentional.
So when you see things like that, quite frankly, when
you're in a dugout, it's different. When you're in the clubhouse,
it's different. I mean, there's this sense of a band
(04:26):
of brothers in a baseball world. I'm not definitely not
talking in the real world. I'm just saying the fact
that you have this feeling, this desire to protect one another,
and you do, you will lose respect among the group,
and it can't create some kind of a chasm between
the group, just just purely from the perspective that you're
(04:47):
not defending each other. And that's one of the things.
That's one of the And you know you've played a
lot in your past also, and you know that that's
really important to the group that we are there for
one another. We talk team all the time, and you
know there's pictures that do not permit they're better guys
to get hit like that and get hit like that often,
and that's been passed on through generations. Probably the difference
(05:09):
what you're talking about is tough because Suarez throws that
hard and furthermore, if he's gonna throw that hard up
and in that's I totally disagree with that. That I
will agree with I only I like, quite frankly, yes,
I'm okay with getting hit a guy getting hit once
a while when it's deserved, but you don't go up
above the waist. And the point there also is don't
(05:30):
ask somebody to do that. I'm not talking about the
manner necessarily. It could come from somebody within the group,
and it could come from a conversation he had in
spring training. You gotta have guys with command that know
how to throw the ball below the waist and get
this thing done. Chuck Finley was great, Chuck Philly would
pick out a thigh. You get a guy in a
thigh over, the situation is over. No fines, nobody has
(05:50):
to get their panties in a bunch. Everything happens and
it's over. So yes, I'm okay honestly with fighting back.
I am. I think a team can ascend just because
of that. I think in today's world we can see
too much and there's times you have to fight for
your turf. So yes, I'm weirdly okay with that. And
(06:12):
probably if I ever get a job again, somebody gets
hit that's going to point to this interview right now.
But I'm not gonna dissemble. I'm not gonna lie to you.
I'm going to take exactly how I feel, and that's
what I'm doing. So there is a place for it.
But the but whomever is the administrator of this getting
even this. It's got to be somebody knows what he's doing.
You do not throw above the belt, you do not
(06:33):
throw anybody's head, neck, whatever. But you have to lay
it to rest at some point, and you have to
defend your own brute. So long answer, So I think
it comes with the layers. But yeah, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And listen, I don't want to be ignorant of the
culture that goes on, you know, field level heat of competition,
backing up your band of brothers.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
As you said, it's a great point.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
What I would do, though, is I would have Major
League Baseball take a more active role in diminishing that culture.
And again you do that with the penalties. You strengthen
the penalties. Three days is nothing, man, And you know,
shoey Otani, if he breaks his wrists, he's out six
to eight weeks. I mean, it's just not equal justice
to me. They yet bat with Tatus. The Dodgers had
(07:19):
a guy making his major league debut on the mound
in a five to nothing game and he loses an
armside sinker, which is why most people get hit these days.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
They're tired of watching Tattis get hit. You know he's
going to get hit a lot because he starts with
that open stance and kind of dives into the baseball.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
You have to pitch him inside. It's part of the game.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I just think the penalties should be stiffer because the
consequences are so high.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
We look around the game this year, and it's not
just this year. The highest hit by pitch rates in
Major League Baseball history have all been the last eight seasons.
In one hundred and forty one years, there had never
been a hit by pitch rate of zero point eight
hit by pitches per game, and yet we've done that
ever year for the last eight years, and time after
(08:07):
time we're watching guys and Corbyn Carroll is the latest
stars of this game have to sit down because they
break bones on pitches.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It's an epidemic in the game.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So if you can take out as much as you
can the intentional ones, the unintentional ones are going to happen.
I just hate seeing guys have to sit down, the
stars of the game especially, but anybody because it hit
by pitches.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Going back to the Red Sox situation with the Shieldsy
and Crisp. It was, you know, really what that was
real fight afterwards. I think we had to endure twenty
one days of suspensions as a group. I'm pretty sure
that was a number. I might be right wrong, Like
you know, Gomer Johnny Gomes got suspended. I think I
got suspended whatever I mean, I'm not nearly as important players.
There was a I think it was twenty one days, so,
(08:51):
but it wasn't all concurrent. It had to be spread
out over the course of three weeks. And so we
were I think we I think we played a man short.
Often you'd have to look at all of this. However,
there's also a galvanizing to this too. So when you
when when you're faith with the situation like this, again,
you can never underestimate the you know, the soul and
the spirit of the group, and and and the ability
(09:14):
to rise to the situation and compensate make up for
all of these the lack of deficiency of having enough
players out of the field. So again, I remember that distinctly,
because everybody was concerned, oh, well, you know, going to
be down a guy for twenty one days. I might
My recollection is that we did pretty well after that.
I don't know that we'd have to look it up,
but my recollection was that we wasn't wasn't awful. Number one.
(09:37):
Number two guys getting hit by pitch at an alarming rate.
Is it because guys are thrown at them or because
we just have a lack of command and control. I mean,
when you're throwing attempting to throw that hard and and
and I know I talk to guys all the time,
pitching coaches, people that are watching closely. You know, bullpens
aren't necessarily about you know, you talk about shape of pitches.
(09:57):
I get that, But when it comes down to like
like Chuck Filly would sit on the down outside corner
for fifteen consecutive pitches. Tommy John never wanted to throw
the ball with the plate to be an inch or
two off the plate, But that was the primary purpose
of a bullpen situation in between starts back in the day.
Now it's just about having somebody there with the tablet.
You're throwing the ball as hard as you can, spinning
(10:18):
the ball as much as you can, and the pitcher
is more concerned about the shape of the pitch and
the spin on the pitch. Those kind of items as
opposed to the controlling command of the pitch, because that's
not what's being emphasized. So listen, just the thought I
see it, the lack of really the ability to put
the ball where you want to. I was watching Walker
Bueller last night, my god, and I don't know, I
(10:40):
don't know if he's been hurt recently a while, but
that was awful. The command, control and command was awful.
And he did eventually hit Netto, who had started the
game with the home run. And you can make that
argument too that he did that on purpose. Okay, Netto's
he's the because of these situations with him, He's really
fueled the Angels as far as I'm concerned. I don't
(11:00):
know this guy, but I like him a lot, and
he took it a lot back. Angels come back, are
they they? Yeah? They eventually came back and won that game.
So there's this unmeasurables, these unmeasurables that I think are
important to any sporting event, and especially in our game
because you played every night and again you have to
demand your own turf. Nobody's gonna give it to you.
(11:21):
So so many different layers again to me, but at the
end of the day. Brother, I believe you protect your
guys and there's and I think that's how you co
exist for a year and have everybody's respect.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Great point on Netto, by the way, you're absolutely right.
He's not just a really good player. He is a
spark plug. He's a competitor. He's the kind of guy
you want on your team. There's no question about that.
I like watching him play same He's got an edge
to him in the right exactly the right kind of way. Now,
he did start a bench clearing incident with the Astros
when he got hit by a sinker from Hunter Brown,
(11:56):
and he pointed out, hey, that's the second time you've
hit me. Well, the last one was last year. I
hit two times in two years. By the way, those
pitches from Hunter Brown were only six inches off the
inside corner of the plate. We're talking the width of
two baseballs. But Netto's another guy likes to stand on
the chalk line of the box and his hands are
(12:16):
actually over the strike zone as he brings them around.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
He's going to get hit a lot. That's the fact
of life for him.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
But Joe, look around the game and you try to
find a number of guys who come to home plate
now without some kind of armor on their arms and elbows, right.
I mean Spencer Stryder was shocked when he hit Bryce
Harper that Bryce was not wearing an elbow guard. It's
just like de facto protection of the game today. And
to your point, Joe, about the hit by pitches, where
(12:42):
they're coming from. You know, I've dove into these numbers
and it really is.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
It's pitch shaping more than anything that is causing the
increase in hit by pitches. I'm talking about cutters to
off sided hitters and sinkers the same sided hitters. Guys
want to run the baseball in both directions now, on
both sides of the play, and they simply just don't
have command of it as well. And if you look
at the numbers, is by far the incidents the percentage
(13:11):
of those pitches cutters and sinkers is much higher in
terms of the hit by pitches than the overall rate.
It's the only type of pitch that does that, not
for seemers, not breaking pitches, not change ups. So the
shaping of pitches is causing this. And also you have
to talk about guys in the big leagues now, who
are there because we need a gazillion pitchers in the
(13:32):
game today with the injuries and the bullpen usage.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
This is amazing to me, Joe.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We've just now getting to the halfway point of the
season in twenty twenty five. Major league teams have used
more pitchers to get through less than half of a
season this year than they did in every full season
until twenty fourteen. You know, we're not talking about a
sixteen team major leagues in nineteen twenty two. We're talking
(13:59):
about twenty fourteen teams used more pitchers this year half
of a season then to cover the entire twenty fourteen season.
So you're talking about literally hundreds more pitchers who are
in the big leagues now who otherwise would not have
been in the big leagues. You can't tell me they
all know how to command to baseball.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
We what a progressive stance we've taken there with the
utilization of pictures, right, I mean, that's that is that
is throw up worthy right there. I was watching last night,
I was watching the Mets and the Braves, and you
see a Kuno when he comes up to the plate,
whatever that is on his left arm, it's unbelievable. I mean,
he could protect, you know, against the natural disaster. This
thing looks so huge, and it's yellow, and it's ostentatious,
(14:40):
and it's the whole thing, and it then is floating
around the bases after it's a home run. I mean,
you know, we're just promoting the wrong things here, grown ups,
and the fact that we've acquiesced all this and you know,
the let the kids play and all this other crappy stuff.
I don't like it quite frankly, It's gotten way out
of hand. You when it first began, everybody was afraid
(15:02):
to speak out against it because and you'd be considered,
you know, old or out of touch, which totally disagree with.
It's it's inappropriate, horrible behavior. It's it's a narcissistic component
of the baseball game that I can't stand. So yeah,
progressive stance regarding guys getting hit and and all this
other stuff, the shaping of the pitches and just throwing
(15:22):
hard a kunya way too much wow, and then is
over the top celebration last point about the pitch shape whatever.
And I've I've always advocated for this, throw the ball
to the weak part of the bat, That's what I've
always when when you when you, uh, what's what's the
right pitch to throw in this situation if a pitcher
is able to we talked about to shape the pitch
(15:43):
and throw the pitch of the weak part of the back.
That becomes Marianna Rivera. My god, I mean, he was
like one of the first guys as I was coming up,
but nineties, mid nineties whatever. That really demonstrated to me
to really research the reverse split stuff because the rightings
being better against lefties and lefties who could get inside
on rightings, et cetera. So yes, throw the ball to
the weak part of the bats in on a righty,
(16:05):
cut her in on a on a lefty whatever. So
that's I agree with the weak part of the bat theory.
But then again, when you're just trying to spin it
so hard and just fire away and you really they
have no concern about hitting the guy, that's that's part
of it. There is no concern, And I think you know,
when you're able to command the ball better. Take Kyle
(16:26):
Hendrix and he's the he's doing okay this year. Kyle,
and this is just an extreme example, but is a
pitcher and he's wonderful to watch, and I saw him
against the Yankees recently shut him down. God, the pitch
shape and the movement and his changing of speeds and
just the the uh, the mental component of his game.
You could watch him the intellectual part of it fabulous
(16:47):
to watch, fabulous, as opposed to the more Theanderthal approach.
Neanderthal approach. So you could break this down so many
different ways. And this is part of what I don't like.
It's the excessive celebrating, even to the point now I
would I'm waiting for the team I guess the Yankees
do that doesn't run out with a hat for something
and put it on the player that hits a home
run and they come in and that that they can
never do it again. These are the kind of the
(17:09):
things that we're doing in today's game that I consider
very boring and a big turn off.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, and I think you know this, Joe.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
It's an old saying that the scoreboard will tell you
everything you need to know about how to play the
game right, And a lot of this is being done
ignorant of the scoreboards. In other words, you know, walk
off home run, game tying home run.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
There's moments, sure, just let it fly.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
But you know, down seven to nothing in the fifth inning,
come on, pick your spots.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
That's a great play. I like that a lot, Tommy.
I love that. I should have I should have mentioned that,
and I'll keep that moving forward. That's great.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, let's stand the theme of justice, Joe, because I'm
not sure if you watched any of the College World Series,
but head coaches were making headlines for all the wrong
reasons in that tournament. And I'd love to dive into
that with you, and we'll do that next on the
Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joke podcast.
(18:12):
Congratulations to the LSU Tigers. They are NCAA Baseball World
Series champions. But Joe, I wasn't following a lot of
these games, but it seemed like every time it caught
my attention, it was because a coach was doing something
that just quite frankly, rubbed me the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And it started with the coach from Coastal.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Carolina actually calling out a competitor, Kevin O'Sullivan, the head
coach of Florida, at a press conference after one of
his games. The Coastal Carolina coach Snall said he disrespected
our field crew. Apparently there was a dust up in
some kind of an argument, and he accused O'Sullivan. He said,
this is a national champion coach who think he can
(18:56):
come in here and try to bully people around. I'm disappointed,
And actually a couple of days later, O'Sullivan did issue
an apology saying, hey, I let the emotions get the
best of me and a channel of that energy in
a way that I should not have, and I did
not represent the University of Florida to the appropriate standard
and take full responsibility for that.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So good on him. He owned up for it.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Clearly acted improperly, probably got in the faces of some
of these officials who run these regional tournaments, but he
did own it and apologize it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Then you had Tim Corban, the longtime coach at Vanderbilt.
He loses the game.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I get it's tough to get in front of those
microphones after a tough loss, especially you've got this far
in the tournament. And he's asked the question by Arianna Gerson,
who covers Vanderbilt for the Tennesseean, and Gerson asks, you
know what happened to your offense? They struck out ten
times and left eight guys on base It was a
very very open ended question. And to me, he responds
(19:59):
so inappropriately, Joe just answered the question. Okay, there's no
agenda here about what went wrong when your team gets
shut down offensively, you're just looking for an answer.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's an open ended question.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And he comes back and he says issue human, saying
implying that we're human. And Gerson says, well, it just
looks different than you know, the way your team has
played the last week or so.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And he says, you play baseball area. I mean, first
of all, you can't get them there.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Come on, she's not saying she's a baseball player's asking
a question. You play baseball area. I mean, it's tough
pitching on both sides. These are good pitchers on the mound.
These are battles. We just didn't win the battle. Don't
go searching like for a lot of ancillary bs what
he says in the press conference, Come on, you gotta
(20:50):
be better than that. That's embarrassing for your school. I mean,
especially as a college coach man. You got to set
an example. And then finally we get to championship Sunday.
It's a clinching situation for lsu Schnawl.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
The coach Carolina Joe.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
He gets thrown out of the game in the first inning,
first inning. It's only ten pitches into the game for
his team on offense. The umpire basically tells him to
stop yapping about ball strike calls. He comes out of
the dugout, the umpire tells him, knock it off, don't
come out any farther.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What does he do.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
He holds up three fingers and he says, you've missed
three already. So the umpire runs him. And this is
a guy who claims after the game that his motto
with his group is own it, to take ownership of things.
He did everything button his press conference after the game.
Now do I like an umpire throwing a manager coach
out of the game in the first inning of a
(21:45):
championship game. Of course not. But the fact is he
was warned kept going. It's a ball and strike call.
Ten pitches into the game and you get run. Imagine
if it was one of his players who got thrown
out in the first inning of a championship game, you'd
say that's wholly inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Set a better example.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You want to tell me that's an ump show the
guy's saying, hey, look at me as an umpire, go
ahead and knock yourself out. Don't put yourself in that position.
If you've been warned and it's a ball and strike
call in the first inning of a game, make your point,
stay in the dugout.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And leave it at that.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I got no sympathy for a guy getting run in
the first inning. And the shame of it, Joe is
he made that championship game about him getting thrown out.
That's what made the headlines, not that his team got
all the way to the championship game and lost to LSU.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Wow, there's a lot there, brother. First of all, the
coaching question here. Kevin Schnall, his daddy was my freshman
football coach at Lafia College. How about that?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Oh Mike, how about this? Do you talk about small world?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And I know Kevin, I know I've met him in
the past, so I really I didn't get to see
all that. I didn't follow all that. But you're right.
I mean, listen to you get thrown out in the
first inning of such a critical game. I've got thrown
out in the first pitch. With Anthony Rizzo hitting a
home run down the right field line in Pittsburgh where
they called it. It was so high and so far
(23:06):
you could even tell. So they called it fair, they cuddled,
and then they changed it to foul. And then now
I have to ask for a replay to then have
it be considered fair, which is never gonna happen. So
I told Jeff Kelly, I said, you realize how badly
you've screwed this up. The moment you guys got together
and considered it fair, that was the time for the replay,
(23:27):
not after you turned it to foul. And they put
the burden of proof on us. So I went on
the very first pitch of the game, drove all the
way from Hazelton to Pittsburgh, had my golf tournament, got there,
got suited up, went out there, thrown out the first
first pitch of the game. But that was I think
that was justified. But I didn't see what Kevin did there,
and you know that is it's really hard. God. I yes,
(23:48):
I can't defend him there, and I'll get a chance
to visit with him at some point down the road.
His daddy's passed away. Coach Steve Schnell, freshman football coach
at Lafia, loved him to death, had him come to
race camp one time and had him talk to the guys.
The guys couldn't get over it. He would They just
he was just one of those really high energy guys.
So yes, you can't. You can't leave the game that early,
(24:08):
not for that. Not for that. That's a little bit
over the top. And I absolutely agree with that. Now
when you're talking about that, I'm like, you know, from
Kevin's perspective, and he's talking about owning it. That was
one of the things I used to talk about, and
I don't know, you want it, you want to establish
your turf, but you can't. We just talked about that
regarding throwing at people. But in that situation, it's like
(24:30):
the seventh game of the World Series whatever. Getting thrown
out in the first thing just hard to understand. His
dad was really big on something. Z d z D
zero defects, zero defects. That's all Coach Snolliver said to
us when we prepping for a week's game. Anyway that
I'm going digressing there, but that was just wanted to
get that out of there. Coach Corbman, I mean, you'd
expect more from him in that regard, right, I mean,
(24:54):
the guy's very polished, and he's had such a wonderful
career and he's been there to really with David Price
or Sonny Gray and all the other guys in tween.
Maybe having a bad day, I just I just don't
get that.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
That's what I chalk it up too as well, Joe.
Just a bad day, a bad moment. It's certainly out
of character.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
And then you reserve your sarcasm for calmn this only
that's what I always thought. I mean, because you know,
when you're working a major league room all the time,
you got your regular beat guys, and I would never,
I don't think I can almost say never went rude
on them because they're there every day. They're they're just
like we are. We need each other. It's an entertainment world,
(25:35):
entertainment business, and these guys you had to be straight
up with them, and he would. You would go off
the record with these guys sometimes because they need a
background and you trusted them. And that's why I really
had a lot of respect and appreciation for the everyday dude,
and still due to this day of the columnists on
occasion would just show up and then he would go
(25:55):
off of a lot of hearsay, and you know he
would just try it. He's there, he's trying to create
a story. And again, it's part of the entertainment world.
But I always reserve my sarcasm for the calmness and
never for the beat. Guy.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm just blown away by the small connection there. That's fascinating.
Oh yeah, I got to give you his his You
have to laugh too at the of course, his best
line after the game, but he tried to explain what
that happened. He said, I'm forty eight years old. I
shouldn't get shooed by another grown man.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Again when I come out.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
When I come out to ask what the warning is,
a grown man showed me so at that point I
can now hear him say it was a warning issued
for not arguing balls and strikes. At that point, I said,
because you missed three.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
That's his daddy. That was a daddy's influence right there.
That's all I could say is fist Pop was so animated.
Coach Snall loved the man so animated. It's kind of
rubbed off on Kevin a bit.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I hope you never shoot him.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
I know, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't shoot
your coaches back in a day, man, I'd still be running.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But isn't it amazing Joe?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
How sometimes the theater of an argument is worse than
the words. Like the fact that he put up three
fingers like that in front of a crowd and the
television cameras.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You know how much the umpires cannot stand that.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Another thing is when, for me, whenever an umpire would
point in me and say, don't come out here, my god,
I mean, whenever they you know they do that, would
you have to go out there? That was part of
the thing. And whenever they gave you the ultimatum, you
had to always challenge the ultimatum. I always did, and
that that would get me thrown out often. And yeah,
balls and strikes, you can't say anything. Back calls, you
(27:40):
cannot say anything. Chuck swings, You're not supposed to say anything,
you know that. And then then then eventually challenging a recall,
a replay that's been gone to New York and back,
and then you don't agree with it. The first time
that happened, I got thrown out because I thought the
call was still wrong, and then they had to throw
me out. I was at the first baseline somewhere. But man,
(28:01):
you when you get it, it's like real life. Right
when you get when you faced with people pointing fingers
and throwing ultimatums that you it's it's just a it's
a cause to fight back. You just get fires. You
up and you have no other choices, no other options.
You know what the result is going to be, but
you got to do it anyway.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
You just reminded me that the most ridiculous arguments are
the ones where a call gets overturned or a replay
doesn't go your way.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Right right, Yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Call is made thousands of miles away in New York
by a completely different set of umpires. But just to
vent you can't take it out on technology, so you
take it out on the poor guys who are actually
just administrating the game.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And the empire would put listen, I didn't I didn't
change it. You know, you got to get out of Joe.
You can't, I can't. You can't argue this God, he
was wrong, and then you get thrown out anyway. It's
such an emotional moment, and especially when things are going well,
my god, then it then it becomes multiplied so quickly.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I love your point about when the Empire says, don't
come out here. That's a that's a red cape to charging, right.
I mean, did your dad ever ground you and say, Joe,
you grout and you can't go out tonight?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Of course, I mean Beanie, Beanie was a tough one.
My mom would be like that. But yeah, it's think
about it though, when somebody you know, points a finger
like at you and tells you you can't do something,
and going back to Kevin's points and all about being
a grown up, grown man, it just doesn't work. It
just doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Oh, I love that line.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I shouldn't get showed by an another grown man.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's a that's a T shirt for next year. If
I'm coastal, I'm selling that on campus.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Hey, Joe, I want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
We're gonna take a quick break here of the Book
of Joe and Robin bring up the Reds are bringing
up a pitcher number two draft pick last year who's
thrown only sixty six minor leagues inning, started this year
in a ball and now he's pitching in the big.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Leagues against the Yankees.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
We want to talk about pitching development, and we'll do
that right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome
back to the Book of Joe. This is fascinating to me, Joe.
Chase Burns, with the number two pick in the draft
(30:15):
last year, did not pitch professionally as they do with
a lot of college pitchers. He pitched at wake Forest,
actually Tennessee before that. So he started his professional career
competitively this year in Class A ball, pitching in front
of four thousand people back in Michigan in April. And
here he is now in the big leagues now, sixty
(30:36):
six innings, he dominated eighty nine strikeouts, only thirteen walks,
and just thirty eight hits. So he's just completely owned
the minor leagues. He's twenty two years old. I get it, Joe.
I mean I get it that now when you talk
about kids coming up through the college ranks, especially where
they have access to the same kind of technology as
(30:57):
the major leaguers do, and there's a lot of good
coaching that's being done on the college level, I think
that the staircase to the big leagues is a lot
steeper and shorter than it used to be. You know,
it used to be what you have to throw about
two hundred and fifty innings to get to the big
leagues before you were properly finished off. This guy throws
he averages ninety seven point eight on his fastball. He
(31:20):
certainly has not been challenged much in the minor leagues,
So get into the big leagues. I'm sure he's gonna
have a ton of governors on him and how many
pitches that he can throw, how many innings he will
throw this year, and all those things. But I've seen
things change, Joe that I wouldn't say this is a
guy getting rushed to the big leagues because the big
league environment now can handle these these high velocity young pitchers.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
What do you think, Well, I think it's you know,
the successive schemes really helps the situation a lot. The
fact that he came up here and did what he did.
And I'm sure there's a lot of comps going on
there teams like this. I guess normally, you know, sending
teams teams that are trying to become something. Maybe more
established teams with more money could go out and just
get the more established guy and permit these guys to
(32:02):
incubate a little bit. But first of all, I think
it's partly because of the scheme's success. Ab I also,
I do believe this. It's a very subtle movement. It's
a very subtle movement to really diminish the minor leagues
even more and rely more on colleges, almost like the
NBA model or the NFL model, to have guys come
from college and write to the big leagues with very
(32:23):
limited or no a minor league experience. It's another way
to defray costs. I just really believe that these did
the way scouting and development is done today purely almost
I shouldn't say almost exclusively, but a lot of it's
done through data analytics and videos, things kind of that nature.
I think if pro ball the way it's being the
(32:45):
direction of it right now, if they could turn development
over to colleges, they'd love that. They would love that.
And I think that again there's left to be some
kind of a skeleton minor league situation, but it won't
be so much based on development. You just more or
less be based on a place to play, because the
coaching itself being done would be done or generated more
(33:05):
off of an iPad as opposed to eyeballs and experience.
So that's the one thing I've been noticing it's a
continuation of the deterioration of the minor leagues. It's the
thought of elevating college ball and have the more there's
successes like this coming out of college ball immediately, like
the schemes, the more the other people are going to
(33:27):
want to do as copycat industry. They're good. Why why
can't we do that? Why can't we just raft and
bring the guys right up limited time into minor leagues
if we want to utilize them anyway, We've already used
what more pictures already this year than you do in
a normal season, So that's going to happen regardless based
on how we do things. And you've already mentioned the
governor that in and of itself lends to the utilization
(33:47):
of more pictures during the course of a season. So
there's a lot going on in there. But I think
the primary mover is the unseen, un talking about movement
of eliminating more minor leagues and really even to the
point that you may eventually farm out some of your
guys to a good college program. And I think I've
read about and I thought it's right on the money
to have your guy developed collegiately as opposed to in
(34:09):
a minor lag system that we don't want to support.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, and I think there's a lot of trust now
more than there used to be in major league organizations.
Looking at college programs with the way they handle young pitchers,
I don't think they run him into the ground.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
As much as they used to. And let's face it,
there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Of pitching coaches, not just on the big league level,
but throughout major league organizations up and down the ladder
who come out of college. They're identified as getting the
job done in college. They call these major colleges have
all the technologies that the major league teams have.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It's not that different. It used to be. I thought
a bigger jump joe.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Between college, major college and the major leagues. It's it's
really not that big now in terms of what they're teaching.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So Chase Burns is going to get the ball.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
He's the youngest pitcher to start against the Yankees, making
his major league debut since Ian Anderson of the Braves
back in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I don't know if you remember Ian Anderson.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I do I do straight over the top, right really
over the top reminded me a lot of Michael Waka
straight over the top. Chase Burns is actually the same
kind of picture Joe. He will get to the big
leagues and again he throws averages in the minor leagues
ninety seven point eight on his heater.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And I looked at.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
This among major league pitchers who average at least ninety
five on their fastball, he will have the highest release
point of anybody. Closest to is Hayden Birds Song of
the Giants, another young pitcher about six and a half
feet off the ground. He's a little more. He's six'
six off the ground Is Chase. Burns so to me
his comp WHEN i looked at the Numbers joe on
(35:41):
his fastball, metrics his release, point, velocity spin, rate which
is off the charts high is going back to prime Justin,
verlander and you just don't see guys with that high
release point at HIGH v, low especially these days the
Way Chase burns has. Now WHEN i looked At, Verlander
verlander's mechanics were. Smoother burns actually has a higher arm,
(36:03):
angle if that makes sense to. You he has to
dive the head out of the way to the left
to get straight over at almost twelve thirty on the, Clock,
uh to get that arm. Higher even Though verlander's, uh
the release point was exactly the same. Height verlander's arm
angle was not as high As Chase. Burns that's just
something to keep on.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
IN i.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
ON i know, that, uh there is a little more
stress on the shoulder when you get that. High AND
i think the trend now has been towards lower arm.
Slots BUT i think this kid's got a chance to
dominate because he's got dominating stuff from a very different release.
POINT i think it's going to be a tough study
for major league hitters to pick up the ball on this.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Kid how tall is? He six?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Six did you say that's Release he's sixty. Three, okay
that's his release. Point he's sixty.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Three, well when you're as you're talking about, that you
made me think about two. Guys that one THAT i
had WHEN i always, ADMIRED i Had Jeff. NEMAN i
Remember Jeff. Neman he was six', nine tall. Tall, guy
yeah it didn't see so like high eighties or, low nineties,
but man when he, was well he used to get
quick outs and he get like through he get through
innings like nobody Else because i've always thought that angle.
(37:11):
Equals movement so if you're able to, be that if
you're that tall and you could throw the ball with
that kind of an angle, or elevate just keep the
ball on that. Elevated plane what an advantage. That is
and then of course all the breaking balls if you're
throwing from. That angle just think. About it especially well in,
today's game may be a little bit better if they're
throwing the ball down because everybody's trying to lift. The
(37:32):
ball but when the ball was more of a flat
swing that, down angle the intersection of the ball and
the bat to me was like really had to be
precise in order to square, it up because if you
look from, the side it, was, like weird the ball
was coming from such a high spot down to this
bat and the guys were trying to be more flat.
With it so maybe the answer is more of an
uplifting kind of. A swinger the Other One's. Chris young.
(37:52):
See why the guy WITH the gm With the rangers,
right now see why didn't throw, Hard EITHER but i.
Loved him but he threw a lot at the top of.
The zone he was probably about the same Height as,
jeff WAS and. I got i Love. JEFF neeman i,
see why same, thing tall but his balls for me
stayed on, a plane elevated more than he wanted to.
(38:12):
Pitch DOWN where i Loved when jeffrey did pitch down
because they couldn't square. Him Up so i've always liked over.
The top over the top could be. Really beneficial it
is at such a different angle for the hitter, to
see and down angle. EQUALS movement, i say try to
convince them that if they've thrown the, BALL downhill i
mean from like a high, slot down just think, about
(38:35):
it it's really hard to square it up because of the.
Angles involved and so those are the kind OF guys i.
Always liked he didn't see a whole lot, of them
especially you didn't see aho lot of pictures That Tall
finn finn was kind of over. The top and the
Thing About finn finn had a great not, a splitter
he had a great fork ball to go off of.
That Too so i've been around some really tall pitchers
and very tall, successful pitchers And so i'm curious to
(38:56):
see this guy six, y' three maybe not, as tall
but with the the head, pulling off with the head
and all jerking to. The left i'm just curious to
see how that. Plays Out but i've seen some successful guys.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Like, That, well joe you're right that, you know that
downhill type of pitcher has been disappearing in the game
because the emphasis on hitting is to get the ball
in the air and the swing has.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Become a little.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
More uphill and that's actually fitting that downhill pitch better
than it. Used to so You mentioned skeen's. PERFECT example,
i mean that's a, six' five six to six guy
who's got a very. Low arm slot the major league
average arm slot release point has gotten lower and lower
over the last few years because that pitch plays at
(39:37):
the top. Of the zone, the uphill shooter, if you
will more than that plane downhill into. The swing path
so we'll keep an. Eye on, THAT and again i
just think his stuff is so. Good right now that's
going to play for a while until major league hitters
see this. Guy make adjustments it's a very it's a
premium it's premiere stuff from. An unusual ANGLE that's what i.
(39:58):
Like about, It, and also joe if you look around
the game, first year, players to me pitchers are hitting the.
Ground running Man The kid jacob Misrawski Of. The brewers
man he's just. Fun to watch. He's dominating People You've,
Got Braden, Fisher Logan, Henderson Noah, Cameron Shane, Smith Jack,
Dryer Mick. Abel chad patrick these are all first year
(40:19):
pitchers who are. Doing SPLENDIDLY well and i think you
look at, The, offensive side joe and that jump is
really harder than it is. For the, pitchers you know
the word On Guys like Roman anthony And, jack kech
leane the. Big time prospects we Saw that with. HOLIDAY last,
(40:40):
year i mean there have been sixteen first year. Hitters
this year you've had at least one, hundred plate appearances
and eleven of the sixteen you have a BELOW. Average
adjusted ops so the universe of pitchers who hit the.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Ground running now is much deeper than it is.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
First, YEAR hitters, yeah i mean if you can just
want to go purely from, An analytical perspective i've always
felt that analytics benefits defense, and pitching primarily and the
hitters really get very little.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Out, of this uh it's just. THEY just, don't i
mean they're they're, hitters are reactive. Pitchers are proactive, defense
is proactive and so the, hitters up there and then
you just suggested all these young guys coming up. The
they're this the success they've had to this point is primarily, based,
on velocity spin. Shape of pitches probably they're they're their.
Slider or whatever when you're, throwing that, hard, that young
(41:31):
yeah you have a chance to. Make an impact now
that the next, one is longevity because we have had
so many blowouts based on just trying to throw that
hard and actually. Throwing THAT hard, so, i think, uh
you know the the the immediate success has to be.
Tempered a bit and, Because after all i've, always you
know as a as a scout and as a, PLAYER
development guy i wasn't just there to try to make
(41:53):
a guy or hopefully be there for a, year or
two maybe three. At the most you always you always
were taking long term with. All these guys and and,
AS a manager i was always thinking about not. Hurting
a picture that was my especially relief pictures in regard
to their usage to. Not. Hurt, ANYBODY man now I
REMEMBER When i jp, howe GOT hurt AND I. Love
(42:13):
jp howe, he got hurt he had Been. Hurt in
texas didn't, throw that hard but he had to talk
about another over the top guy and then he got
he got injured when you're coming out, of the BULLPEN
and man i, TOOK that. PERSONALLY i did i don't
think that's really thought about in those, that method anymore
because analytics analytics technology. Has, no soul really it's just
(42:34):
out there attempting, to create. Robots et cetera so analytical
analytics benefits defense a. Pictures, be hitters know and we've talked,
about This before big acquisitionally it's a big. Boon to
ACQUISITIONS and even i. SAID becoming, scouts i mean You
Don't need red gaskell in The Stands or gene thompson in,
the Stands Anymore or lloyd christopher. In the stands they
(42:57):
don't want him in. The stands anymore, those guys again
just like, WE'VE talked about i talked about in a
recent podcast with somebody today's world doesn't, Get a job
williams doesn't. GET a job I mean maybe, i Don't
know even earl doesn't. Get A job billy mart't definitely
doesn't get a job in today's method, Of DOING things
AND i miss I could Mention Hall of fame scouts
that would not even be anywhere near a ballpark today
(43:18):
based on the methods being. Employed right now so again
you could argue, the word progressive what does? It really
mean AND you could i hear the term often the, Game,
has changed. No it hasn't the way the game is,
administrated has changed but not. The game itself and THESE
that's where i get bothered by. All of this so
let's wait for these guys to do something good for
(43:39):
a period of time and not just show up and
become a rising star as opposed to. A SHOOTING star
and i think that's sometimes that gets clouded because we
automatically elevate these guys to like excellent status where they're just.
Entering the portal let's see it.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Really plays, out you, Know YEARS ago joe i used
to hear about the transition from the minor leagues to
the major leagues that the test was can you hit?
Big league velocity the pitchers. Would test you that. DOESN'T
happen anymore i mean there's a lot of velosity in
the minor. Leagues as well actually they see it on
the amateur. LEVEL as well i think the two biggest
changes right now for a hitter making the jump to,
the big leagues and you're seeing this a Little Bit.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
With roman anthony, first of all the strike zone in
the major.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Leagues is, bigger you know they've tightened the minor, league
strike zone and you look at the hitting numbers in
the minor leagues and they're. Off the charts especially the
high strike is literally not part of the strike zone in.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
The minor leagues so you've got to adjust to a.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
New strike, ZONE and, also i think, To, me now
joe the biggest jump what a young hitter has to
really conquer the hurdle. Is swing decisions there's so much
spin in, the game today and we just talked about.
Shaping of pitches the forcing, OF swing decisions i think
is a lot more difficult the control. Of breaking stuff
(44:53):
it's better in the big leagues obviously than in. THE
minor leagues i think pitchers force more swing decisions now in.
The big leagues that's got to be a tough adjustment for. A,
young hitter.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah it is. It's very difficult and of course the
emphasis on all of that benning average. Doesn't matter anymore
ops Is the thing i've always been in the. Walks
versus strikeouts that was my as a. Young HITTING coach
when i took over in the late Eighties, for the angels,
my main tenant my main PHILOSOPHICAL component was i wanted
(45:23):
you to balance your walks of strikeouts as much as
you can. Now power, HITTERS of course i accept the
more strikeouts unless walks from. A POWER hitter and i
wanted the guys that were more line drive average kind
of guys that wanted to see more of a greater
balance between walks and strikeouts in. Their developmental, process and
yeah THE other thing i used. To Runs, produced benny,
hines the Great Late. Great benny hines he was big
(45:47):
on how do you call? It run production and you
would take the, runs and RBIs, ad them together subtract
home runs because they, counted as both and divide it
by the number of. Games you played and if YOU
had an rp number of, one point zero you produced
at least. One running game. You're PRETTY good and i
USED to really i used to post on THE board
when i come, INTO the city i took, it this
day would take the statue which is, all WE add
(46:09):
and i, would add, up, YOU know runs rbi subtract homers,
divided by games and THEY put their rp. NUMBER up
there i wanted them to think of themselves as producing
runs per game one. Way or another but if you're
one point, zero, or better man. You're pretty good so
these are the kind OF things that i really used to,
get into now THE fact that ops is so important
and slug obviously always, has been important but the hitters
(46:31):
are really more focused on that side of the ledger
as opposed to this other one producing runs. In another
way so it's just how we think about things and
the way we think about the game and hitters how
they think about themselves Has Changed because i've i've had
hitters talk to me about that specifically, regarding you know,
where they're at what's going on in. This time slot
(46:53):
this month is two, weeks of hitting and they're they're always,
Concerned about that and it really does come down. To
Decision making and i'm a big and when you're talking about,
these pictures today they're able to take a ball, become
a strike and a strike become a BALL with like
i probably, like you know when you have to honor that, Kind,
of velocity god it really and you have to make up.
(47:13):
Your mind sooner that's where a big part of this
is involved with the strike Ball, especially so god there's,
so many again so many things to, talk about it
and you make me think about so many. Different things
simultaneously but that's, what's, Going on man it's you got
to make, your mind quicker which is going to. Force,
bad Decisions.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Well now i'm gonna make you come up with something to, Take,
us HOME joe as. I always do i'm tempted to
say the pressure is on for you to do something
better than.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
A grown. Man shoot, me I'M confident will i DON'T know.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
IF i can i don't know. If, that's topable. YEAH
there was i was all over. The place today, there's
Two things but i'm gonna go with. This one here
education is not. Learning the facts it's rather the training
of the. Mind to think i'm so caught up in.
THIS force thinking, i, mean again nobody nobody's asked. To
think anymore everybody's presented with print out and data and.
(48:04):
Information and numbers that with that is your ability to
think and process and create new methods or ways from,
your own soul from, your own spirit from. Your OWN
experiences because i think everybody relies on quote unquote leadership
to do that. FOR them anymore. I don't know i
don't know how many people are. THINKING for, themselves i mean,
(48:25):
if you watch if you listen to managers, AFTER the
game i could hear, the thinking manager and sometimes you just,
hear THE regurgitator which i think the regurgitator is more
prevalent than. The Thinker anymore so i've always been a.
Proponent of this one of my first Slogans With the
devil rays was tell me, what you think not. What
YOU'VE heard and i think that primarily with the way
(48:49):
things are, done right now whomever is in the leadership
seat want you to go by what you've heard and
not what you think necessarily because we really don't want
to know. What you think and that to me is as.
A tremendous downfall AND even when i watched the news
AND you watch tv with all, the different opinions people
will just rely on that and they'll go out and
regurgitate those opinions during the course of the day without
(49:11):
having thought it through. Them for themselves so education is not.
Learning the facts it's the rather the training of the.
Mind To, think mister einstein.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
That's, Really, good stuff joe especially when it. Comes to
baseball he just made me. THINK of something i Was Talking,
To dave, roberts Dodgers manager About andy pahes is having
just a, great breakout season should Be At The, all
star game and, he mentioned, that You know Pahes is
from cuba kind of got bombarded with a lot of,
technology and information, and he, said this year the biggest
(49:40):
difference is he's just gone back to being an athlete
and playing the. Game of baseball not that he doesn't,
use that stuff but he's really. Toned it down doesn't
have to look at the iPad after every single at
bet and check, where his feet where. His hands, were
he said he's just gotten back to really, being a
confident trusting ballplayer and trusting his athletic abilities and then
just supplementing it with the information instead of.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Relying. ON it, yeah i mean at some point you
you got to. JUST drop, it i mean everybody thinks
all this during the course. Of the game they think analytics.
Is winning games. It is not it is. Not, winning
games athletes good baseball players' ability to react. In, the moment,
again theories, wonderful reality happens and then you have to
who's able, to make adjustments who's able to make adjustments
(50:22):
based on, what they're seeing. What they're feeling and they're
not gonna sit there and just. Go photographic memory they're
gonna file through some kind of a page that they
saw before the course. Of the, game of course not as,
a hitting coach even back when, WE'RE so rudimentary i
would really ask or try to insist. To, the player
listen we're gonna work on this stuff off the tea
when the. Ball's, not moving okay let's let's stand here
and think about a. Couple of things we'll work on
(50:43):
a couple, of THINGS specifically and i mean, a couple,
hopefully just. One maybe two, AND then afterwards i want
you to go, in a game hopefully and just look,
at the, ball you know go up there with. Your
game plan? Where YOU looking am? I LOOKING in am?
I LOOKING away am i? Sitting ON hard am i?
Sitting on soft all, These different things but just keep it,
to one thought because. YOU really can't. I used to
i used to point out to the mist then sit
(51:04):
in my room after as a rover i'd back in
the ninety, eighties AND nineties and i would sit there
and listen to the audis all the team reports, from
that night it'd be like two o'clock, in The morning
and i'm also TRYING to. Watch TV simultaneously and i,
thought to, them you know it's, kind of. STUPID but
true I can't watch tv and, listen TO this or
i can't listen to THIS. And watch tv you can't
(51:25):
do two things. At one time. You just cannot so
when it comes down, to holding thoughts it's one, at
the most. Hold one thought when you try to hold
hold more, than one thought it. Just doesn't work and
that's the misconception with all this information that everybody thinks. It's,
so Valuable again if i'm going to buy, my next,
shortstop give me, give me, reams give me Give Me
(51:46):
this encyclopedia britannica looking for? My? Next shortstop ABSOLUTELY where
do i want to Play against tom berducci? Tonight? At
shortstop absolutely give me as much as You. Got on
tommy AND where do i want? To? Pitch them absolutely but,
as a hitter keep, that, slate clean brother because if
you give, Me two. Thoughts i'm, Screwed.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Great, Stuff joe well the summer has arrived officially and
the second half of the season. Starts this week crazy look.
Forward to it we'll see you next Time of The.
Book Of joe Thanks. Brother Fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
The book of joe podcast is A.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Production of iHeartRadio for More, podcasts from iHeartRadio visit, The iHeartRadio,
app apple podcasts or wherever you.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Get your podcasts
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey Aaron, Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
To the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci
and Joe Madden and I cannot wait.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To talk to you Joe about the issue of.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Justice, book justice and frontier justice and when it comes
to baseball. You know what I'm talking about. The hit
by Pitchy had a lot of dust ups last week,
both involving Los Angeles teams, the Angels and the Dodgers. Joe,
I want to start with the La Dodgers San Diego
Padres last week because if you're watching the game Thursday,
(00:46):
you saw the greatest attraction in baseball and of our generation,
sho hey Otani hit by a pitch at ninety nine
point eight miles per hour that both the Dodgers and
Major League Baseball said was thrown intentionally by Robert Swarez.
What would make a pitcher throw a baseball at nearly
(01:07):
one hundred miles an hour at the greatest drawing card
in baseball. Well, it turns out it wasn't unintentional hit
by pitch for one of the Padres players, Fernando Tatis Junior.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Now Suarez, Robert Tuarez.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The pitcher who hit Otani, did say a couple of
days later. We at least the next day, Hey, man,
it wasn't intentional. I wasn't trying to hit him. I
don't think you're going to convince the Dodgers of that,
and Joe, you're not going to convince me of that.
That was a four seam fastball from a right handed
pitcher to a left handed hitter. That was the farthest
(01:42):
inside that Robert Suarez has ever thrown a four seam
fastball to a left handed hitter.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The count was three to zero.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
The Padres were tired of watching Fernando Tatist get hit
by pitches from the Dodgers, even if they acknowledged that
they were not intentional.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Show.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Hey, just to give you an idea, and you know this, Joe,
for seeing fastballs to off handed hitters, you just don't
see major league pitchers lose them to that side. Shohy
in his career, had been hit only four times on
four seemers from a right handed pitcher, never twice. In
the same year, he was hit two times in three
days on four seemers from Padre's right handers. Joe, my
(02:24):
personal opinion for this. I wish baseball would stop this nonsense,
this testosterone fueled and macho mann stuff. Hey, you hit
one of our guys and we know it wasn't intentional,
but just to get back at you and to quote
unquote protect my guy, I've got to fire one hundred
mile an hour seed up around your neck, which is
where Otani was hit, but really high on the shoulder.
(02:47):
I don't like it. I think actually the actual book justice,
which was three days suspension versuares which he appealed, should
be much longer that.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
That should actually be at least a week.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I look around the game today and see too many
star players shut down because they break bones on hit
by pitches. In this case, to me, it certainly looked intentional.
In any case, I think the penalty should be at
least a week. Suspicion, get way to get your take
on it, Joe, You've been in the dugout. You know
how emotions rage, and we know in the Dodgers Padres
(03:19):
series they certainly do.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah. First of all, I saw a little bit of
the replay. Yeah, it's intentional. Of course, it's intentional, but
they have to say it's not intentional. Or they do
get the week suspension or maybe even more than that,
So you have to have to play along a be
the tatisse things. Though I totally agree with something you
just said there in the sense that and you know
when it's unintentional, you know when a pitch gets away,
(03:42):
because I went through this with the Cubs, with the
Cardinals primarily, and then you know, we did it with
the Yankees and the Red Sox with the Rays, and
there was times that you know, we had some pretty
big fights. And the big one was with the Red
Sox by a pitch but Shieldsy hit Crisp Cocoa Crisp
and the thigh based on an incident the night before.
And the other one was play at the play they
(04:04):
didn't like in the spring training game. So the Yankees
then Shelley Duncan slid in a second base, spikes up
and he really got Aki more like kind of in
thigh high or even higher than that. It was obviously intentional.
So when you see things like that, quite frankly, when
you're in a dugout, it's different. When you're in the clubhouse,
it's different. I mean, there's this sense of a band
(04:26):
of brothers in a baseball world. I'm not definitely not
talking in the real world. I'm just saying the fact
that you have this feeling, this desire to protect one another,
and you do, you will lose respect among the group,
and it can't create some kind of a chasm between
the group, just just purely from the perspective that you're
(04:47):
not defending each other. And that's one of the things.
That's one of the And you know you've played a
lot in your past also, and you know that that's
really important to the group that we are there for
one another. We talk team all the time, and you
know there's pictures that do not permit they're better guys
to get hit like that and get hit like that often,
and that's been passed on through generations. Probably the difference
(05:09):
what you're talking about is tough because Suarez throws that
hard and furthermore, if he's gonna throw that hard up
and in that's I totally disagree with that. That I
will agree with I only I like, quite frankly, yes,
I'm okay with getting hit a guy getting hit once
a while when it's deserved, but you don't go up
above the waist. And the point there also is don't
(05:30):
ask somebody to do that. I'm not talking about the
manner necessarily. It could come from somebody within the group,
and it could come from a conversation he had in
spring training. You gotta have guys with command that know
how to throw the ball below the waist and get
this thing done. Chuck Finley was great, Chuck Philly would
pick out a thigh. You get a guy in a
thigh over, the situation is over. No fines, nobody has
(05:50):
to get their panties in a bunch. Everything happens and
it's over. So yes, I'm okay honestly with fighting back.
I am. I think a team can ascend just because
of that. I think in today's world we can see
too much and there's times you have to fight for
your turf. So yes, I'm weirdly okay with that. And
(06:12):
probably if I ever get a job again, somebody gets
hit that's going to point to this interview right now.
But I'm not gonna dissemble. I'm not gonna lie to you.
I'm going to take exactly how I feel, and that's
what I'm doing. So there is a place for it.
But the but whomever is the administrator of this getting
even this. It's got to be somebody knows what he's doing.
You do not throw above the belt, you do not
(06:33):
throw anybody's head, neck, whatever. But you have to lay
it to rest at some point, and you have to
defend your own brute. So long answer, So I think
it comes with the layers. But yeah, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And listen, I don't want to be ignorant of the
culture that goes on, you know, field level heat of competition,
backing up your band of brothers.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
As you said, it's a great point.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
What I would do, though, is I would have Major
League Baseball take a more active role in diminishing that culture.
And again you do that with the penalties. You strengthen
the penalties. Three days is nothing, man, And you know,
shoey Otani, if he breaks his wrists, he's out six
to eight weeks. I mean, it's just not equal justice
to me. They yet bat with Tatus. The Dodgers had
(07:19):
a guy making his major league debut on the mound
in a five to nothing game and he loses an
armside sinker, which is why most people get hit these days.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
They're tired of watching Tattis get hit. You know he's
going to get hit a lot because he starts with
that open stance and kind of dives into the baseball.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
You have to pitch him inside. It's part of the game.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I just think the penalties should be stiffer because the
consequences are so high.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
We look around the game this year, and it's not
just this year. The highest hit by pitch rates in
Major League Baseball history have all been the last eight seasons.
In one hundred and forty one years, there had never
been a hit by pitch rate of zero point eight
hit by pitches per game, and yet we've done that
ever year for the last eight years, and time after
(08:07):
time we're watching guys and Corbyn Carroll is the latest
stars of this game have to sit down because they
break bones on pitches.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It's an epidemic in the game.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So if you can take out as much as you
can the intentional ones, the unintentional ones are going to happen.
I just hate seeing guys have to sit down, the
stars of the game especially, but anybody because it hit
by pitches.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Going back to the Red Sox situation with the Shieldsy
and Crisp. It was, you know, really what that was
real fight afterwards. I think we had to endure twenty
one days of suspensions as a group. I'm pretty sure
that was a number. I might be right wrong, Like
you know, Gomer Johnny Gomes got suspended. I think I
got suspended whatever I mean, I'm not nearly as important players.
There was a I think it was twenty one days, so,
(08:51):
but it wasn't all concurrent. It had to be spread
out over the course of three weeks. And so we
were I think we I think we played a man short.
Often you'd have to look at all of this. However,
there's also a galvanizing to this too. So when you
when when you're faith with the situation like this, again,
you can never underestimate the you know, the soul and
the spirit of the group, and and and the ability
(09:14):
to rise to the situation and compensate make up for
all of these the lack of deficiency of having enough
players out of the field. So again, I remember that distinctly,
because everybody was concerned, oh, well, you know, going to
be down a guy for twenty one days. I might
My recollection is that we did pretty well after that.
I don't know that we'd have to look it up,
but my recollection was that we wasn't wasn't awful. Number one.
(09:37):
Number two guys getting hit by pitch at an alarming rate.
Is it because guys are thrown at them or because
we just have a lack of command and control. I mean,
when you're throwing attempting to throw that hard and and
and I know I talk to guys all the time,
pitching coaches, people that are watching closely. You know, bullpens
aren't necessarily about you know, you talk about shape of pitches.
(09:57):
I get that, But when it comes down to like
like Chuck Filly would sit on the down outside corner
for fifteen consecutive pitches. Tommy John never wanted to throw
the ball with the plate to be an inch or
two off the plate, But that was the primary purpose
of a bullpen situation in between starts back in the day.
Now it's just about having somebody there with the tablet.
You're throwing the ball as hard as you can, spinning
(10:18):
the ball as much as you can, and the pitcher
is more concerned about the shape of the pitch and
the spin on the pitch. Those kind of items as
opposed to the controlling command of the pitch, because that's
not what's being emphasized. So listen, just the thought I
see it, the lack of really the ability to put
the ball where you want to. I was watching Walker
Bueller last night, my god, and I don't know, I
(10:40):
don't know if he's been hurt recently a while, but
that was awful. The command, control and command was awful.
And he did eventually hit Netto, who had started the
game with the home run. And you can make that
argument too that he did that on purpose. Okay, Netto's
he's the because of these situations with him, He's really
fueled the Angels as far as I'm concerned. I don't
(11:00):
know this guy, but I like him a lot, and
he took it a lot back. Angels come back, are
they they? Yeah? They eventually came back and won that game.
So there's this unmeasurables, these unmeasurables that I think are
important to any sporting event, and especially in our game
because you played every night and again you have to
demand your own turf. Nobody's gonna give it to you.
(11:21):
So so many different layers again to me, but at the
end of the day. Brother, I believe you protect your
guys and there's and I think that's how you co
exist for a year and have everybody's respect.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Great point on Netto, by the way, you're absolutely right.
He's not just a really good player. He is a
spark plug. He's a competitor. He's the kind of guy
you want on your team. There's no question about that.
I like watching him play same He's got an edge
to him in the right exactly the right kind of way. Now,
he did start a bench clearing incident with the Astros
when he got hit by a sinker from Hunter Brown,
(11:56):
and he pointed out, hey, that's the second time you've
hit me. Well, the last one was last year. I
hit two times in two years. By the way, those
pitches from Hunter Brown were only six inches off the
inside corner of the plate. We're talking the width of
two baseballs. But Netto's another guy likes to stand on
the chalk line of the box and his hands are
(12:16):
actually over the strike zone as he brings them around.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
He's going to get hit a lot. That's the fact
of life for him.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
But Joe, look around the game and you try to
find a number of guys who come to home plate
now without some kind of armor on their arms and elbows, right.
I mean Spencer Stryder was shocked when he hit Bryce
Harper that Bryce was not wearing an elbow guard. It's
just like de facto protection of the game today. And
to your point, Joe, about the hit by pitches, where
(12:42):
they're coming from. You know, I've dove into these numbers
and it really is.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
It's pitch shaping more than anything that is causing the
increase in hit by pitches. I'm talking about cutters to
off sided hitters and sinkers the same sided hitters. Guys
want to run the baseball in both directions now, on
both sides of the play, and they simply just don't
have command of it as well. And if you look
at the numbers, is by far the incidents the percentage
(13:11):
of those pitches cutters and sinkers is much higher in
terms of the hit by pitches than the overall rate.
It's the only type of pitch that does that, not
for seemers, not breaking pitches, not change ups. So the
shaping of pitches is causing this. And also you have
to talk about guys in the big leagues now, who
are there because we need a gazillion pitchers in the
(13:32):
game today with the injuries and the bullpen usage.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
This is amazing to me, Joe.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We've just now getting to the halfway point of the
season in twenty twenty five. Major league teams have used
more pitchers to get through less than half of a
season this year than they did in every full season
until twenty fourteen. You know, we're not talking about a
sixteen team major leagues in nineteen twenty two. We're talking
(13:59):
about twenty fourteen teams used more pitchers this year half
of a season then to cover the entire twenty fourteen season.
So you're talking about literally hundreds more pitchers who are
in the big leagues now who otherwise would not have
been in the big leagues. You can't tell me they
all know how to command to baseball.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
We what a progressive stance we've taken there with the
utilization of pictures, right, I mean, that's that is that
is throw up worthy right there. I was watching last night,
I was watching the Mets and the Braves, and you
see a Kuno when he comes up to the plate,
whatever that is on his left arm, it's unbelievable. I mean,
he could protect, you know, against the natural disaster. This
thing looks so huge, and it's yellow, and it's ostentatious,
(14:40):
and it's the whole thing, and it then is floating
around the bases after it's a home run. I mean,
you know, we're just promoting the wrong things here, grown ups,
and the fact that we've acquiesced all this and you know,
the let the kids play and all this other crappy stuff.
I don't like it quite frankly, It's gotten way out
of hand. You when it first began, everybody was afraid
(15:02):
to speak out against it because and you'd be considered,
you know, old or out of touch, which totally disagree with.
It's it's inappropriate, horrible behavior. It's it's a narcissistic component
of the baseball game that I can't stand. So yeah,
progressive stance regarding guys getting hit and and all this
other stuff, the shaping of the pitches and just throwing
(15:22):
hard a kunya way too much wow, and then is
over the top celebration last point about the pitch shape whatever.
And I've I've always advocated for this, throw the ball
to the weak part of the bat, That's what I've
always when when you when you, uh, what's what's the
right pitch to throw in this situation if a pitcher
is able to we talked about to shape the pitch
(15:43):
and throw the pitch of the weak part of the back.
That becomes Marianna Rivera. My god, I mean, he was
like one of the first guys as I was coming up,
but nineties, mid nineties whatever. That really demonstrated to me
to really research the reverse split stuff because the rightings
being better against lefties and lefties who could get inside
on rightings, et cetera. So yes, throw the ball to
the weak part of the bats in on a righty,
(16:05):
cut her in on a on a lefty whatever. So
that's I agree with the weak part of the bat theory.
But then again, when you're just trying to spin it
so hard and just fire away and you really they
have no concern about hitting the guy, that's that's part
of it. There is no concern, And I think you know,
when you're able to command the ball better. Take Kyle
(16:26):
Hendrix and he's the he's doing okay this year. Kyle,
and this is just an extreme example, but is a
pitcher and he's wonderful to watch, and I saw him
against the Yankees recently shut him down. God, the pitch
shape and the movement and his changing of speeds and
just the the uh, the mental component of his game.
You could watch him the intellectual part of it fabulous
(16:47):
to watch, fabulous, as opposed to the more Theanderthal approach.
Neanderthal approach. So you could break this down so many
different ways. And this is part of what I don't like.
It's the excessive celebrating, even to the point now I
would I'm waiting for the team I guess the Yankees
do that doesn't run out with a hat for something
and put it on the player that hits a home
run and they come in and that that they can
never do it again. These are the kind of the
(17:09):
things that we're doing in today's game that I consider
very boring and a big turn off.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, and I think you know this, Joe.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
It's an old saying that the scoreboard will tell you
everything you need to know about how to play the
game right, And a lot of this is being done
ignorant of the scoreboards. In other words, you know, walk
off home run, game tying home run.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
There's moments, sure, just let it fly.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
But you know, down seven to nothing in the fifth inning,
come on, pick your spots.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
That's a great play. I like that a lot, Tommy.
I love that. I should have I should have mentioned that,
and I'll keep that moving forward. That's great.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, let's stand the theme of justice, Joe, because I'm
not sure if you watched any of the College World Series,
but head coaches were making headlines for all the wrong
reasons in that tournament. And I'd love to dive into
that with you, and we'll do that next on the
Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joke podcast.
(18:12):
Congratulations to the LSU Tigers. They are NCAA Baseball World
Series champions. But Joe, I wasn't following a lot of
these games, but it seemed like every time it caught
my attention, it was because a coach was doing something
that just quite frankly, rubbed me the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And it started with the coach from Coastal.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Carolina actually calling out a competitor, Kevin O'Sullivan, the head
coach of Florida, at a press conference after one of
his games. The Coastal Carolina coach Snall said he disrespected
our field crew. Apparently there was a dust up in
some kind of an argument, and he accused O'Sullivan. He said,
this is a national champion coach who think he can
(18:56):
come in here and try to bully people around. I'm disappointed,
And actually a couple of days later, O'Sullivan did issue
an apology saying, hey, I let the emotions get the
best of me and a channel of that energy in
a way that I should not have, and I did
not represent the University of Florida to the appropriate standard
and take full responsibility for that.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So good on him. He owned up for it.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Clearly acted improperly, probably got in the faces of some
of these officials who run these regional tournaments, but he
did own it and apologize it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Then you had Tim Corban, the longtime coach at Vanderbilt.
He loses the game.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I get it's tough to get in front of those
microphones after a tough loss, especially you've got this far
in the tournament. And he's asked the question by Arianna Gerson,
who covers Vanderbilt for the Tennesseean, and Gerson asks, you
know what happened to your offense? They struck out ten
times and left eight guys on base It was a
very very open ended question. And to me, he responds
(19:59):
so inappropriately, Joe just answered the question. Okay, there's no
agenda here about what went wrong when your team gets
shut down offensively, you're just looking for an answer.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's an open ended question.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And he comes back and he says issue human, saying
implying that we're human. And Gerson says, well, it just
looks different than you know, the way your team has
played the last week or so.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And he says, you play baseball area. I mean, first
of all, you can't get them there.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Come on, she's not saying she's a baseball player's asking
a question. You play baseball area. I mean, it's tough
pitching on both sides. These are good pitchers on the mound.
These are battles. We just didn't win the battle. Don't
go searching like for a lot of ancillary bs what
he says in the press conference, Come on, you gotta
(20:50):
be better than that. That's embarrassing for your school. I mean,
especially as a college coach man. You got to set
an example. And then finally we get to championship Sunday.
It's a clinching situation for lsu Schnawl.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
The coach Carolina Joe.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
He gets thrown out of the game in the first inning,
first inning. It's only ten pitches into the game for
his team on offense. The umpire basically tells him to
stop yapping about ball strike calls. He comes out of
the dugout, the umpire tells him, knock it off, don't
come out any farther.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What does he do.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
He holds up three fingers and he says, you've missed
three already. So the umpire runs him. And this is
a guy who claims after the game that his motto
with his group is own it, to take ownership of things.
He did everything button his press conference after the game.
Now do I like an umpire throwing a manager coach
out of the game in the first inning of a
(21:45):
championship game. Of course not. But the fact is he
was warned kept going. It's a ball and strike call.
Ten pitches into the game and you get run. Imagine
if it was one of his players who got thrown
out in the first inning of a championship game, you'd
say that's wholly inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Set a better example.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You want to tell me that's an ump show the
guy's saying, hey, look at me as an umpire, go
ahead and knock yourself out. Don't put yourself in that position.
If you've been warned and it's a ball and strike
call in the first inning of a game, make your point,
stay in the dugout.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And leave it at that.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I got no sympathy for a guy getting run in
the first inning. And the shame of it, Joe is
he made that championship game about him getting thrown out.
That's what made the headlines, not that his team got
all the way to the championship game and lost to LSU.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Wow, there's a lot there, brother. First of all, the
coaching question here. Kevin Schnall, his daddy was my freshman
football coach at Lafia College. How about that?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Oh Mike, how about this? Do you talk about small world?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And I know Kevin, I know I've met him in
the past, so I really I didn't get to see
all that. I didn't follow all that. But you're right.
I mean, listen to you get thrown out in the
first inning of such a critical game. I've got thrown
out in the first pitch. With Anthony Rizzo hitting a
home run down the right field line in Pittsburgh where
they called it. It was so high and so far
(23:06):
you could even tell. So they called it fair, they cuddled,
and then they changed it to foul. And then now
I have to ask for a replay to then have
it be considered fair, which is never gonna happen. So
I told Jeff Kelly, I said, you realize how badly
you've screwed this up. The moment you guys got together
and considered it fair, that was the time for the replay,
(23:27):
not after you turned it to foul. And they put
the burden of proof on us. So I went on
the very first pitch of the game, drove all the
way from Hazelton to Pittsburgh, had my golf tournament, got there,
got suited up, went out there, thrown out the first
first pitch of the game. But that was I think
that was justified. But I didn't see what Kevin did there,
and you know that is it's really hard. God. I yes,
(23:48):
I can't defend him there, and I'll get a chance
to visit with him at some point down the road.
His daddy's passed away. Coach Steve Schnell, freshman football coach
at Lafia, loved him to death, had him come to
race camp one time and had him talk to the guys.
The guys couldn't get over it. He would They just
he was just one of those really high energy guys.
So yes, you can't. You can't leave the game that early,
(24:08):
not for that. Not for that. That's a little bit
over the top. And I absolutely agree with that. Now
when you're talking about that, I'm like, you know, from
Kevin's perspective, and he's talking about owning it. That was
one of the things I used to talk about, and
I don't know, you want it, you want to establish
your turf, but you can't. We just talked about that
regarding throwing at people. But in that situation, it's like
(24:30):
the seventh game of the World Series whatever. Getting thrown
out in the first thing just hard to understand. His
dad was really big on something. Z d z D
zero defects, zero defects. That's all Coach Snolliver said to
us when we prepping for a week's game. Anyway that
I'm going digressing there, but that was just wanted to
get that out of there. Coach Corbman, I mean, you'd
expect more from him in that regard, right, I mean,
(24:54):
the guy's very polished, and he's had such a wonderful
career and he's been there to really with David Price
or Sonny Gray and all the other guys in tween.
Maybe having a bad day, I just I just don't
get that.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
That's what I chalk it up too as well, Joe.
Just a bad day, a bad moment. It's certainly out
of character.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
And then you reserve your sarcasm for calmn this only
that's what I always thought. I mean, because you know,
when you're working a major league room all the time,
you got your regular beat guys, and I would never,
I don't think I can almost say never went rude
on them because they're there every day. They're they're just
like we are. We need each other. It's an entertainment world,
(25:35):
entertainment business, and these guys you had to be straight
up with them, and he would. You would go off
the record with these guys sometimes because they need a
background and you trusted them. And that's why I really
had a lot of respect and appreciation for the everyday dude,
and still due to this day of the columnists on
occasion would just show up and then he would go
(25:55):
off of a lot of hearsay, and you know he
would just try it. He's there, he's trying to create
a story. And again, it's part of the entertainment world.
But I always reserve my sarcasm for the calmness and
never for the beat. Guy.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm just blown away by the small connection there. That's fascinating.
Oh yeah, I got to give you his his You
have to laugh too at the of course, his best
line after the game, but he tried to explain what
that happened. He said, I'm forty eight years old. I
shouldn't get shooed by another grown man.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Again when I come out.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
When I come out to ask what the warning is,
a grown man showed me so at that point I
can now hear him say it was a warning issued
for not arguing balls and strikes. At that point, I said,
because you missed three.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
That's his daddy. That was a daddy's influence right there.
That's all I could say is fist Pop was so animated.
Coach Snall loved the man so animated. It's kind of
rubbed off on Kevin a bit.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I hope you never shoot him.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
I know, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't shoot
your coaches back in a day, man, I'd still be running.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But isn't it amazing Joe?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
How sometimes the theater of an argument is worse than
the words. Like the fact that he put up three
fingers like that in front of a crowd and the
television cameras.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You know how much the umpires cannot stand that.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Another thing is when, for me, whenever an umpire would
point in me and say, don't come out here, my god,
I mean, whenever they you know they do that, would
you have to go out there? That was part of
the thing. And whenever they gave you the ultimatum, you
had to always challenge the ultimatum. I always did, and
that that would get me thrown out often. And yeah,
balls and strikes, you can't say anything. Back calls, you
(27:40):
cannot say anything. Chuck swings, You're not supposed to say anything,
you know that. And then then then eventually challenging a recall,
a replay that's been gone to New York and back,
and then you don't agree with it. The first time
that happened, I got thrown out because I thought the
call was still wrong, and then they had to throw
me out. I was at the first baseline somewhere. But man,
(28:01):
you when you get it, it's like real life. Right
when you get when you faced with people pointing fingers
and throwing ultimatums that you it's it's just a it's
a cause to fight back. You just get fires. You
up and you have no other choices, no other options.
You know what the result is going to be, but
you got to do it anyway.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
You just reminded me that the most ridiculous arguments are
the ones where a call gets overturned or a replay
doesn't go your way.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Right right, Yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Call is made thousands of miles away in New York
by a completely different set of umpires. But just to
vent you can't take it out on technology, so you
take it out on the poor guys who are actually
just administrating the game.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And the empire would put listen, I didn't I didn't
change it. You know, you got to get out of Joe.
You can't, I can't. You can't argue this God, he
was wrong, and then you get thrown out anyway. It's
such an emotional moment, and especially when things are going well,
my god, then it then it becomes multiplied so quickly.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I love your point about when the Empire says, don't
come out here. That's a that's a red cape to charging, right.
I mean, did your dad ever ground you and say, Joe,
you grout and you can't go out tonight?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Of course, I mean Beanie, Beanie was a tough one.
My mom would be like that. But yeah, it's think
about it though, when somebody you know, points a finger
like at you and tells you you can't do something,
and going back to Kevin's points and all about being
a grown up, grown man, it just doesn't work. It
just doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Oh, I love that line.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I shouldn't get showed by an another grown man.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's a that's a T shirt for next year. If
I'm coastal, I'm selling that on campus.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Hey, Joe, I want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
We're gonna take a quick break here of the Book
of Joe and Robin bring up the Reds are bringing
up a pitcher number two draft pick last year who's
thrown only sixty six minor leagues inning, started this year
in a ball and now he's pitching in the big.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Leagues against the Yankees.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
We want to talk about pitching development, and we'll do
that right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome
back to the Book of Joe. This is fascinating to me, Joe.
Chase Burns, with the number two pick in the draft
(30:15):
last year, did not pitch professionally as they do with
a lot of college pitchers. He pitched at wake Forest,
actually Tennessee before that. So he started his professional career
competitively this year in Class A ball, pitching in front
of four thousand people back in Michigan in April. And
here he is now in the big leagues now, sixty
(30:36):
six innings, he dominated eighty nine strikeouts, only thirteen walks,
and just thirty eight hits. So he's just completely owned
the minor leagues. He's twenty two years old. I get it, Joe.
I mean I get it that now when you talk
about kids coming up through the college ranks, especially where
they have access to the same kind of technology as
(30:57):
the major leaguers do, and there's a lot of good
coaching that's being done on the college level, I think
that the staircase to the big leagues is a lot
steeper and shorter than it used to be. You know,
it used to be what you have to throw about
two hundred and fifty innings to get to the big
leagues before you were properly finished off. This guy throws
he averages ninety seven point eight on his fastball. He
(31:20):
certainly has not been challenged much in the minor leagues,
So get into the big leagues. I'm sure he's gonna
have a ton of governors on him and how many
pitches that he can throw, how many innings he will
throw this year, and all those things. But I've seen
things change, Joe that I wouldn't say this is a
guy getting rushed to the big leagues because the big
league environment now can handle these these high velocity young pitchers.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
What do you think, Well, I think it's you know,
the successive schemes really helps the situation a lot. The
fact that he came up here and did what he did.
And I'm sure there's a lot of comps going on
there teams like this. I guess normally, you know, sending
teams teams that are trying to become something. Maybe more
established teams with more money could go out and just
get the more established guy and permit these guys to
(32:02):
incubate a little bit. But first of all, I think
it's partly because of the scheme's success. Ab I also,
I do believe this. It's a very subtle movement. It's
a very subtle movement to really diminish the minor leagues
even more and rely more on colleges, almost like the
NBA model or the NFL model, to have guys come
from college and write to the big leagues with very
(32:23):
limited or no a minor league experience. It's another way
to defray costs. I just really believe that these did
the way scouting and development is done today purely almost
I shouldn't say almost exclusively, but a lot of it's
done through data analytics and videos, things kind of that nature.
I think if pro ball the way it's being the
(32:45):
direction of it right now, if they could turn development
over to colleges, they'd love that. They would love that.
And I think that again there's left to be some
kind of a skeleton minor league situation, but it won't
be so much based on development. You just more or
less be based on a place to play, because the
coaching itself being done would be done or generated more
(33:05):
off of an iPad as opposed to eyeballs and experience.
So that's the one thing I've been noticing it's a
continuation of the deterioration of the minor leagues. It's the
thought of elevating college ball and have the more there's
successes like this coming out of college ball immediately, like
the schemes, the more the other people are going to
(33:27):
want to do as copycat industry. They're good. Why why
can't we do that? Why can't we just raft and
bring the guys right up limited time into minor leagues
if we want to utilize them anyway, We've already used
what more pictures already this year than you do in
a normal season, So that's going to happen regardless based
on how we do things. And you've already mentioned the
governor that in and of itself lends to the utilization
(33:47):
of more pictures during the course of a season. So
there's a lot going on in there. But I think
the primary mover is the unseen, un talking about movement
of eliminating more minor leagues and really even to the
point that you may eventually farm out some of your
guys to a good college program. And I think I've
read about and I thought it's right on the money
to have your guy developed collegiately as opposed to in
(34:09):
a minor lag system that we don't want to support.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, and I think there's a lot of trust now
more than there used to be in major league organizations.
Looking at college programs with the way they handle young pitchers,
I don't think they run him into the ground.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
As much as they used to. And let's face it,
there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Of pitching coaches, not just on the big league level,
but throughout major league organizations up and down the ladder
who come out of college. They're identified as getting the
job done in college. They call these major colleges have
all the technologies that the major league teams have.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It's not that different. It used to be. I thought
a bigger jump joe.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Between college, major college and the major leagues. It's it's
really not that big now in terms of what they're teaching.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So Chase Burns is going to get the ball.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
He's the youngest pitcher to start against the Yankees, making
his major league debut since Ian Anderson of the Braves
back in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I don't know if you remember Ian Anderson.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I do I do straight over the top, right really
over the top reminded me a lot of Michael Waka
straight over the top. Chase Burns is actually the same
kind of picture Joe. He will get to the big
leagues and again he throws averages in the minor leagues
ninety seven point eight on his heater.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And I looked at.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
This among major league pitchers who average at least ninety
five on their fastball, he will have the highest release
point of anybody. Closest to is Hayden Birds Song of
the Giants, another young pitcher about six and a half
feet off the ground. He's a little more. He's six'
six off the ground Is Chase. Burns so to me
his comp WHEN i looked at the Numbers joe on
(35:41):
his fastball, metrics his release, point, velocity spin, rate which
is off the charts high is going back to prime Justin,
verlander and you just don't see guys with that high
release point at HIGH v, low especially these days the
Way Chase burns has. Now WHEN i looked At, Verlander
verlander's mechanics were. Smoother burns actually has a higher arm,
(36:03):
angle if that makes sense to. You he has to
dive the head out of the way to the left
to get straight over at almost twelve thirty on the, Clock,
uh to get that arm. Higher even Though verlander's, uh
the release point was exactly the same. Height verlander's arm
angle was not as high As Chase. Burns that's just
something to keep on.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
IN i.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
ON i know, that, uh there is a little more
stress on the shoulder when you get that. High AND
i think the trend now has been towards lower arm.
Slots BUT i think this kid's got a chance to
dominate because he's got dominating stuff from a very different release.
POINT i think it's going to be a tough study
for major league hitters to pick up the ball on this.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Kid how tall is? He six?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Six did you say that's Release he's sixty. Three, okay
that's his release. Point he's sixty.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Three, well when you're as you're talking about, that you
made me think about two. Guys that one THAT i
had WHEN i always, ADMIRED i Had Jeff. NEMAN i
Remember Jeff. Neman he was six', nine tall. Tall, guy
yeah it didn't see so like high eighties or, low nineties,
but man when he, was well he used to get
quick outs and he get like through he get through
innings like nobody Else because i've always thought that angle.
(37:11):
Equals movement so if you're able to, be that if
you're that tall and you could throw the ball with
that kind of an angle, or elevate just keep the
ball on that. Elevated plane what an advantage. That is
and then of course all the breaking balls if you're
throwing from. That angle just think. About it especially well in,
today's game may be a little bit better if they're
throwing the ball down because everybody's trying to lift. The
(37:32):
ball but when the ball was more of a flat
swing that, down angle the intersection of the ball and
the bat to me was like really had to be
precise in order to square, it up because if you
look from, the side it, was, like weird the ball
was coming from such a high spot down to this
bat and the guys were trying to be more flat.
With it so maybe the answer is more of an
uplifting kind of. A swinger the Other One's. Chris young.
(37:52):
See why the guy WITH the gm With the rangers,
right now see why didn't throw, Hard EITHER but i.
Loved him but he threw a lot at the top of.
The zone he was probably about the same Height as,
jeff WAS and. I got i Love. JEFF neeman i,
see why same, thing tall but his balls for me
stayed on, a plane elevated more than he wanted to.
(38:12):
Pitch DOWN where i Loved when jeffrey did pitch down
because they couldn't square. Him Up so i've always liked over.
The top over the top could be. Really beneficial it
is at such a different angle for the hitter, to
see and down angle. EQUALS movement, i say try to
convince them that if they've thrown the, BALL downhill i
mean from like a high, slot down just think, about
(38:35):
it it's really hard to square it up because of the.
Angles involved and so those are the kind OF guys i.
Always liked he didn't see a whole lot, of them
especially you didn't see aho lot of pictures That Tall
finn finn was kind of over. The top and the
Thing About finn finn had a great not, a splitter
he had a great fork ball to go off of.
That Too so i've been around some really tall pitchers
and very tall, successful pitchers And so i'm curious to
(38:56):
see this guy six, y' three maybe not, as tall
but with the the head, pulling off with the head
and all jerking to. The left i'm just curious to
see how that. Plays Out but i've seen some successful guys.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Like, That, well joe you're right that, you know that
downhill type of pitcher has been disappearing in the game
because the emphasis on hitting is to get the ball
in the air and the swing has.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Become a little.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
More uphill and that's actually fitting that downhill pitch better
than it. Used to so You mentioned skeen's. PERFECT example,
i mean that's a, six' five six to six guy
who's got a very. Low arm slot the major league
average arm slot release point has gotten lower and lower
over the last few years because that pitch plays at
(39:37):
the top. Of the zone, the uphill shooter, if you
will more than that plane downhill into. The swing path
so we'll keep an. Eye on, THAT and again i
just think his stuff is so. Good right now that's
going to play for a while until major league hitters
see this. Guy make adjustments it's a very it's a
premium it's premiere stuff from. An unusual ANGLE that's what i.
(39:58):
Like about, It, and also joe if you look around
the game, first year, players to me pitchers are hitting the.
Ground running Man The kid jacob Misrawski Of. The brewers
man he's just. Fun to watch. He's dominating People You've,
Got Braden, Fisher Logan, Henderson Noah, Cameron Shane, Smith Jack,
Dryer Mick. Abel chad patrick these are all first year
(40:19):
pitchers who are. Doing SPLENDIDLY well and i think you
look at, The, offensive side joe and that jump is
really harder than it is. For the, pitchers you know
the word On Guys like Roman anthony And, jack kech
leane the. Big time prospects we Saw that with. HOLIDAY last,
(40:40):
year i mean there have been sixteen first year. Hitters
this year you've had at least one, hundred plate appearances
and eleven of the sixteen you have a BELOW. Average
adjusted ops so the universe of pitchers who hit the.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Ground running now is much deeper than it is.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
First, YEAR hitters, yeah i mean if you can just
want to go purely from, An analytical perspective i've always
felt that analytics benefits defense, and pitching primarily and the
hitters really get very little.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Out, of this uh it's just. THEY just, don't i
mean they're they're, hitters are reactive. Pitchers are proactive, defense
is proactive and so the, hitters up there and then
you just suggested all these young guys coming up. The
they're this the success they've had to this point is primarily, based,
on velocity spin. Shape of pitches probably they're they're their.
Slider or whatever when you're, throwing that, hard, that young
(41:31):
yeah you have a chance to. Make an impact now
that the next, one is longevity because we have had
so many blowouts based on just trying to throw that
hard and actually. Throwing THAT hard, so, i think, uh
you know the the the immediate success has to be.
Tempered a bit and, Because after all i've, always you
know as a as a scout and as a, PLAYER
development guy i wasn't just there to try to make
(41:53):
a guy or hopefully be there for a, year or
two maybe three. At the most you always you always
were taking long term with. All these guys and and,
AS a manager i was always thinking about not. Hurting
a picture that was my especially relief pictures in regard
to their usage to. Not. Hurt, ANYBODY man now I
REMEMBER When i jp, howe GOT hurt AND I. Love
(42:13):
jp howe, he got hurt he had Been. Hurt in
texas didn't, throw that hard but he had to talk
about another over the top guy and then he got
he got injured when you're coming out, of the BULLPEN
and man i, TOOK that. PERSONALLY i did i don't
think that's really thought about in those, that method anymore
because analytics analytics technology. Has, no soul really it's just
(42:34):
out there attempting, to create. Robots et cetera so analytical
analytics benefits defense a. Pictures, be hitters know and we've talked,
about This before big acquisitionally it's a big. Boon to
ACQUISITIONS and even i. SAID becoming, scouts i mean You
Don't need red gaskell in The Stands or gene thompson in,
the Stands Anymore or lloyd christopher. In the stands they
(42:57):
don't want him in. The stands anymore, those guys again
just like, WE'VE talked about i talked about in a
recent podcast with somebody today's world doesn't, Get a job
williams doesn't. GET a job I mean maybe, i Don't
know even earl doesn't. Get A job billy mart't definitely
doesn't get a job in today's method, Of DOING things
AND i miss I could Mention Hall of fame scouts
that would not even be anywhere near a ballpark today
(43:18):
based on the methods being. Employed right now so again
you could argue, the word progressive what does? It really
mean AND you could i hear the term often the, Game,
has changed. No it hasn't the way the game is,
administrated has changed but not. The game itself and THESE
that's where i get bothered by. All of this so
let's wait for these guys to do something good for
(43:39):
a period of time and not just show up and
become a rising star as opposed to. A SHOOTING star
and i think that's sometimes that gets clouded because we
automatically elevate these guys to like excellent status where they're just.
Entering the portal let's see it.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Really plays, out you, Know YEARS ago joe i used
to hear about the transition from the minor leagues to
the major leagues that the test was can you hit?
Big league velocity the pitchers. Would test you that. DOESN'T
happen anymore i mean there's a lot of velosity in
the minor. Leagues as well actually they see it on
the amateur. LEVEL as well i think the two biggest
changes right now for a hitter making the jump to,
the big leagues and you're seeing this a Little Bit.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
With roman anthony, first of all the strike zone in
the major.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Leagues is, bigger you know they've tightened the minor, league
strike zone and you look at the hitting numbers in
the minor leagues and they're. Off the charts especially the
high strike is literally not part of the strike zone in.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
The minor leagues so you've got to adjust to a.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
New strike, ZONE and, also i think, To, me now
joe the biggest jump what a young hitter has to
really conquer the hurdle. Is swing decisions there's so much
spin in, the game today and we just talked about.
Shaping of pitches the forcing, OF swing decisions i think
is a lot more difficult the control. Of breaking stuff
(44:53):
it's better in the big leagues obviously than in. THE
minor leagues i think pitchers force more swing decisions now in.
The big leagues that's got to be a tough adjustment for. A,
young hitter.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah it is. It's very difficult and of course the
emphasis on all of that benning average. Doesn't matter anymore
ops Is the thing i've always been in the. Walks
versus strikeouts that was my as a. Young HITTING coach
when i took over in the late Eighties, for the angels,
my main tenant my main PHILOSOPHICAL component was i wanted
(45:23):
you to balance your walks of strikeouts as much as
you can. Now power, HITTERS of course i accept the
more strikeouts unless walks from. A POWER hitter and i
wanted the guys that were more line drive average kind
of guys that wanted to see more of a greater
balance between walks and strikeouts in. Their developmental, process and
yeah THE other thing i used. To Runs, produced benny,
hines the Great Late. Great benny hines he was big
(45:47):
on how do you call? It run production and you
would take the, runs and RBIs, ad them together subtract
home runs because they, counted as both and divide it
by the number of. Games you played and if YOU
had an rp number of, one point zero you produced
at least. One running game. You're PRETTY good and i
USED to really i used to post on THE board
when i come, INTO the city i took, it this
day would take the statue which is, all WE add
(46:09):
and i, would add, up, YOU know runs rbi subtract homers,
divided by games and THEY put their rp. NUMBER up
there i wanted them to think of themselves as producing
runs per game one. Way or another but if you're
one point, zero, or better man. You're pretty good so
these are the kind OF things that i really used to,
get into now THE fact that ops is so important
and slug obviously always, has been important but the hitters
(46:31):
are really more focused on that side of the ledger
as opposed to this other one producing runs. In another
way so it's just how we think about things and
the way we think about the game and hitters how
they think about themselves Has Changed because i've i've had
hitters talk to me about that specifically, regarding you know,
where they're at what's going on in. This time slot
(46:53):
this month is two, weeks of hitting and they're they're always,
Concerned about that and it really does come down. To
Decision making and i'm a big and when you're talking about,
these pictures today they're able to take a ball, become
a strike and a strike become a BALL with like
i probably, like you know when you have to honor that, Kind,
of velocity god it really and you have to make up.
(47:13):
Your mind sooner that's where a big part of this
is involved with the strike Ball, especially so god there's,
so many again so many things to, talk about it
and you make me think about so many. Different things
simultaneously but that's, what's, Going on man it's you got
to make, your mind quicker which is going to. Force,
bad Decisions.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Well now i'm gonna make you come up with something to, Take,
us HOME joe as. I always do i'm tempted to
say the pressure is on for you to do something
better than.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
A grown. Man shoot, me I'M confident will i DON'T know.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
IF i can i don't know. If, that's topable. YEAH
there was i was all over. The place today, there's
Two things but i'm gonna go with. This one here
education is not. Learning the facts it's rather the training
of the. Mind to think i'm so caught up in.
THIS force thinking, i, mean again nobody nobody's asked. To
think anymore everybody's presented with print out and data and.
(48:04):
Information and numbers that with that is your ability to
think and process and create new methods or ways from,
your own soul from, your own spirit from. Your OWN
experiences because i think everybody relies on quote unquote leadership
to do that. FOR them anymore. I don't know i
don't know how many people are. THINKING for, themselves i mean,
(48:25):
if you watch if you listen to managers, AFTER the
game i could hear, the thinking manager and sometimes you just,
hear THE regurgitator which i think the regurgitator is more
prevalent than. The Thinker anymore so i've always been a.
Proponent of this one of my first Slogans With the
devil rays was tell me, what you think not. What
YOU'VE heard and i think that primarily with the way
(48:49):
things are, done right now whomever is in the leadership
seat want you to go by what you've heard and
not what you think necessarily because we really don't want
to know. What you think and that to me is as.
A tremendous downfall AND even when i watched the news
AND you watch tv with all, the different opinions people
will just rely on that and they'll go out and
regurgitate those opinions during the course of the day without
(49:11):
having thought it through. Them for themselves so education is not.
Learning the facts it's the rather the training of the.
Mind To, think mister einstein.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
That's, Really, good stuff joe especially when it. Comes to
baseball he just made me. THINK of something i Was Talking,
To dave, roberts Dodgers manager About andy pahes is having
just a, great breakout season should Be At The, all
star game and, he mentioned, that You know Pahes is
from cuba kind of got bombarded with a lot of,
technology and information, and he, said this year the biggest
(49:40):
difference is he's just gone back to being an athlete
and playing the. Game of baseball not that he doesn't,
use that stuff but he's really. Toned it down doesn't
have to look at the iPad after every single at
bet and check, where his feet where. His hands, were
he said he's just gotten back to really, being a
confident trusting ballplayer and trusting his athletic abilities and then
just supplementing it with the information instead of.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Relying. ON it, yeah i mean at some point you
you got to. JUST drop, it i mean everybody thinks
all this during the course. Of the game they think analytics.
Is winning games. It is not it is. Not, winning
games athletes good baseball players' ability to react. In, the moment,
again theories, wonderful reality happens and then you have to
who's able, to make adjustments who's able to make adjustments
(50:22):
based on, what they're seeing. What they're feeling and they're
not gonna sit there and just. Go photographic memory they're
gonna file through some kind of a page that they
saw before the course. Of the, game of course not as,
a hitting coach even back when, WE'RE so rudimentary i
would really ask or try to insist. To, the player
listen we're gonna work on this stuff off the tea
when the. Ball's, not moving okay let's let's stand here
and think about a. Couple of things we'll work on
(50:43):
a couple, of THINGS specifically and i mean, a couple,
hopefully just. One maybe two, AND then afterwards i want
you to go, in a game hopefully and just look,
at the, ball you know go up there with. Your
game plan? Where YOU looking am? I LOOKING in am?
I LOOKING away am i? Sitting ON hard am i?
Sitting on soft all, These different things but just keep it,
to one thought because. YOU really can't. I used to
i used to point out to the mist then sit
(51:04):
in my room after as a rover i'd back in
the ninety, eighties AND nineties and i would sit there
and listen to the audis all the team reports, from
that night it'd be like two o'clock, in The morning
and i'm also TRYING to. Watch TV simultaneously and i,
thought to, them you know it's, kind of. STUPID but
true I can't watch tv and, listen TO this or
i can't listen to THIS. And watch tv you can't
(51:25):
do two things. At one time. You just cannot so
when it comes down, to holding thoughts it's one, at
the most. Hold one thought when you try to hold
hold more, than one thought it. Just doesn't work and
that's the misconception with all this information that everybody thinks. It's,
so Valuable again if i'm going to buy, my next,
shortstop give me, give me, reams give me Give Me
(51:46):
this encyclopedia britannica looking for? My? Next shortstop ABSOLUTELY where
do i want to Play against tom berducci? Tonight? At
shortstop absolutely give me as much as You. Got on
tommy AND where do i want? To? Pitch them absolutely but,
as a hitter keep, that, slate clean brother because if
you give, Me two. Thoughts i'm, Screwed.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Great, Stuff joe well the summer has arrived officially and
the second half of the season. Starts this week crazy look.
Forward to it we'll see you next Time of The.
Book Of joe Thanks. Brother Fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
The book of joe podcast is A.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Production of iHeartRadio for More, podcasts from iHeartRadio visit, The iHeartRadio,
app apple podcasts or wherever you.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Get your podcasts
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