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September 4, 2024 47 mins

Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental wealth podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. No better way to kick off the 2024 NFL season than with our very first guest ever on the podcast. Ladies and gentleman sit back and enjoy an encore presentation of Jay’s incredible chat with Rams Head Coach Sean McVay!

 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental wealth podcast,
Build you from the inside out. Now here's Jay Glacier.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right, Welcome everybody to the very first ever episode
of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm your host, Jay Glazier.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
And you may be asking, why is the guy from
Fox NFL Sunday and Bawlers hosting a mental health podcast. Well,
that's because for years I have lived in something that
I call the gray depression, anxiety that's throwing some add
while we're at it, and I've kind.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Of hitten it.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
For all these years, I've put on a different mask
for all you to see me in a certain light.
Well those days are over, and we all talk about
mental health these days, but who gives it words? So
by this podcast, I hope to give it words. I
hope to be able to give us all the words,
to have the conversations to describe it. The more we
could talk about it, the more we could take the
shame away, and the more we realize that we're not alone.

(01:02):
We're walking this walk together with so many other people.
And my goal with this podcast is to help us all.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Through the gray and find a way to the blue.
That's our goal.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
That's what I want to do, and I want to
build up one big, badass army together. We can all
hunt this blue together and tell the gray to go
screw off. And sometimes I'm not going to use the
nicest words in this podcast because quite frankly, the gray
doesn't deserve to be spoken too nicely.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
So again, why meet? I think you know.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm not a therapist. I'm not a doctor, I'm not
a teacher. My expertise isn't suffering. One thing God blessed
me with the ability to do is that's talk and communicate.
And I want to be able to communicate this now
so we start to feel like we're in the majority,
the more we could feel like this is not just
special to us, and it'll make us feel like we're
not alone. So I wrote a book this year called Unbreakable,

(01:58):
How I Turn My depression anxis and Motivation.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
And you can too.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
And in the book, I describe what it's like to
go through this depression and anxiety, the pain, the gray,
the hopelessness of it. And in that book, as I
describe it, it's to a certain individual who's really trying
to learn about what the gray is like, and with
that I bring in that individual, proud to have him

(02:23):
as my first guest. It's Rams head coach Sean McVay, who,
by the way, is playing in his season opener tomorrow.
So I appreciate you joining us today, Sean. I mean,
nobody better to kick this off with than you, since
you've been there with me, really trying to understand it
from day one with me.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, I think the first thing is is how much
I've learned from you and the willingness to be secure
enough to acknowledge some of these things that you go
through and that so many different people go through. But
I've talked a lot about this, you and I have
talked about it Jay with some of our closest friends,
and I think the best thing that you're doing right
now is a lot of people talk about what comes first,
trusts or vulnerability, and I think the fact that you're

(03:03):
so secure in yourself to be vulnerable to acknowledge the
things that a lot of people are I'm sure our
feeling and going through leads to that trust, and that's
not the other way around. And I think that's why
we've gotten so close. I've learned so much from you.
With your willingness to acknowledge it. I think in some
form or fashion. You know, everybody experiences these types of feelings,

(03:24):
but it's understanding there is strength and the vulnerability. It's
not a weakness to acknowledge it. And how can we
use those things and lean on people that are going
through it to be able to be mentally and physically
tough but not be you know, in denial of These
are real things.

Speaker 5 (03:40):
These are real emotions.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
And acknowledging that provides the strength to be able to
push through and get to the blue like you talk about.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
You know, it's it's funny because we talk about strength, right,
and people ask me and I think you asked me also,
like you know, aren't you afraid?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Like man, you're this tough guy, And I view it
the other way.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, because I'm in the center of dudism, right, I'm
football fighting ballers. I look like I could cry on
the drop of a time. But I think that's the problem.
In a lot of your locker rooms, guys don't look
at it that way. They look at it like if
they open up, they're gonna be ostracized, They're.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Gonna be called whoosies. They may get cut.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
How do you handle trying to let these guys now
know they have a landing spot.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
I think the first thing is, I think there's this
narrative that's pushed, whether it be by social media or
the external things that everybody sees, that's just not real.
You know, everybody lives real lives, and even though certain
people are put on pedestals where they are you know,
expected to be just perfect, I think come that comes
with a pressure where people are more outside and inside

(04:42):
out than ever before. And this is about being inside out.
This is about relationships, the character that you have and
being able to know that, hey, you know, life is
about being able to handle the ebbs and flows. Nothing
is perfect, but also being willing to say, you know what,
I'm having a tough time with this and what an
ex sale comes with that when in a lot of instances,

(05:02):
those people that you're saying and they never have that
when you actually open up to them, they're saying, you know,
I'm feeling the same thing, and that provides a relief
and an ability for people to be able to lean
on each other.

Speaker 5 (05:13):
And I think in a lot.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Of instances, allowing people to be human, you know that
there's this narrative that I think people have to be
perfect and that's just that's not real that that leads
to a life that I don't think is fulfilling. But
acknowledging that and then being able to use the people
that you're around to be able to provide that support structure,
like what you've done for so many people, is what
allows you to be able to overcome those things. Acknowledge it,

(05:38):
and then let's attack it the right way. And that's
what we try to do with our guys, and I
think it's I think it's very very unrealistic to not
expect people to have bad moments, But how do we
prevent those bad moments from turning into bad days? And
that's being there for somebody, being unconditional, letting people know
that you love them no matter what and you're gonna
be there to help put your arm around them.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
How do you get your guys to try trust the
people on the team though, To talk about this.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
I think the vulnerability, I think the acknowledgement is starting.
We have my own insecurities, my different things.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
You know.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
One of the things that we've talked about this a lot,
and you know me a lot better than most and
you know, sometimes you're innately thrust into a leadership role where, hey,
it takes a lot of time to be able to
get yourself to those positions where when you get up
in front of the guys, you believe, Hey, this is
how we're going to overcome that resilience, you know, some
of that adversity that we face. But getting to that
point can be a struggle. And I think in a

(06:31):
lot of instances acknowledging to the players that Hey, while
I feel a very big responsibility to help and set
the tone for you guys and being a resilient leader,
I have my own insecurities and flaws as well, and
to not you know, to be so naive to think
that those things aren't real. You know, I think you
lose guys if you don't acknowledge that. And I think
that's been a big thing that's brought our team together,

(06:52):
where we've got such special people and you really know
our group really well, Jay, But perfection, No, nobody's perfect.
And I think one of the things is the accountability,
the vulnerability that's shared, whether it be for myself, our coaches,
our team leaders. I think that helps create and cultivate
an atmosphere and environment that's conducive for real shit to occur,

(07:14):
you know, for you to be able to really work
through adversity and acknowledge the things that you know. It
used to be, Oh, you can't say that because now
you're not this perfect guy. I think their strength and
the vulnerability, like I've said over and over in these
first few minutes, and that was one of the reasons
why I think we've gotten so close, is because I
love the fact that, hey, you are this tough, maniac, hardwired,

(07:35):
driven guy that communicates brings people together all the different stuff,
whether it's the fight background, the relationships you've built in
the NFL, you know, but that willingness is why so
many people are drawn to you to be able to say, hey,
I'm not perfect, you know, but I am still going
to be myself and we all have our things that
we work through. And I think that that that bonds

(07:56):
people and that brings people together, and that's what you've done.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
I want to get real with you here because when
we first had the conversation, do you remember, you didn't
get it right. You didn't really understand the depression anxiety.
And your question to me was wait, so you just
wake up sad. Why do you remember my answer to you?

Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yeah, I do remember it, and I think in a
lot of instances, you.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Know what with a specific one line answer, yeah, I
mean we've talked about this, it's a lot.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
There's you have a lot of ways of describing this.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
I have depression, anxiety, and that's all. That's what I said.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
You said, no, no, I get that, but fill me up.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
What I was asking is what do you think led
to it? You know, because in a lot of instances,
you know, some of the things that I've worked through
are all right, well, what is the root of it?

Speaker 5 (08:40):
How do we attack the problem?

Speaker 4 (08:41):
We're always solution oriented, and what you helped me, you know,
have an understanding for, is that there sometimes is just
things with the way that we're innately hardwired that hey, man,
I don't ever choose to feel this way, but this
is how I feel, you know, And I think educating
yourself on feeling and knowing are two totally different things.

Speaker 5 (08:59):
You know, Hey, I don't want.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
To be this way, but I feel this way, and
those emotions are strong, and in a lot of instances,
I think when we go back to those conversations, a
couple of years ago. You know, you're still maturing as
a man, and I don't even know if I was
secure enough at that point to acknowledge that. Yeah, in
some form or fashion, you have those feelings, you know,
I'm talking about myself. Yeah, but you know, is there
really the security and the comfort to be able to acknowledge, like, hey,

(09:24):
there's times too, man, where I'm not feeling great myself,
you know, whether it be because of the stress of
the job or whatever you have going on, because you
want everything to kind of be in order. But I
think just continuing to mature and acknowledge that these are
real emotions that people feel, some stronger than others, and
being able to have that empathy and understanding when you

(09:44):
have people like you that are such close friends of mine,
has certainly helped me in a lot of ways be
able to connect with people in an authentic manner and
then also be able to help, you know, overcome some
of the temporary things where you're not feeling so good
yourself talking about me.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah. Oh, And you know it's interesting because you just
said it.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
You said I didn't know if I was secure enough
to talk about it back then, right, And that night,
I was like, hey, Sean, you don't You may not
get it because your eyes said your life is like
a night light, like your your parents look like the
people who you bought, who are in the picture frames
you buy from the Target. And the worst thing that
ever happened to you is you didn't win the super
Bowl and your second year as young as head coach ever,

(10:22):
and I'm like, you may not get this because you
don't have the same childhood drama that a lot of
other people have.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
But the evolution last year when you struggled.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Last year you went over for November, you struggled, and
that's the first time I think.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
You turned to some of your boys. You turned to me,
you turned to Andrew Whitworth, you.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Turned to a lot of us, and for the first
time you're like, all right, I'm fucked up right now.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
I need some help instead of just carrying it on yourself.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, I totally agree, And I think so much of
you know, some of the own internal pressure or stress
that I put on myself was when I was too
reliant on the outside in narrative, you know, it was
more about me than I'd ever like to admit.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
In terms of your ego getting in the way and
that leading to insecurity.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
And then what you really realize is, hey, these feelings
and things like that, it's okay to feel it, but
let's really unpack them and understand, all right, well, why
do you feel this way? And then when you realize
it's about relationships, it's about being able to kind of
be there for people when they need you the most,
and it's not about your selfish ambitions or worried about
your ego getting in the way.

Speaker 5 (11:27):
That to me, has been the most helpful thing.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
When it became more about leaning on people like you,
leaning on the staffers, the whitworst our coaches Raheem Morris
for Sule, You know those kind of guys and know
one that, Ay, what really matters is the people that
are unconditional in your life.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
But I know a lot of my own problems have.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Come from a results oriented business that is so highly scrutinized.
And then you come in as an early coach, you know,
you're almost naive to the fact of what a great,
big opportunity it is, and then you start to realize
what's going on and you can let that insecurity creep in.
If you're so relying on your self worth is predicated
on what the headlines say, and I think then you

(12:06):
have a better understanding of man. Where you're really fulfilled
is when you're being a real person that acknowledges the
insecurities that we all face, but then being able to
help people come through on the right side or lean
on them to help you come out on the right side,
where it becomes a purpose driven life, about those relationships,
about the character that you have in the way that
you handle those toughest moments, and man, it was. It

(12:30):
was a tough time and I don't know that you
can ever really replicate it when you're in those moments,
because when you look back on it, it's easy to say, oh, yeah,
you know, this is how we handled it. But I
think you know, the people that are closest to me, Veronica,
my wife, and my family, you know, they know that
it was definitely the right way that we handled it.

(12:50):
But that doesn't mean what's simple is always easy.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, but here's where you were great, here's where you're different,
right because two years ago you just would have and
early on last year when we were talking about You're like, no, no, no,
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. I'm like, no, right,
I'm like, you're not good, broke, You're not good right,
And I kept calling you to make sure you're okay,
and you know, you were like, hey, I don't think

(13:13):
the guys can even tell them struggling. And what you
didn't know is like five year guys are calling me
and going, oh, man, you gotta do something about your boy.
You got to help the me know he's just And
then you and I had that talk. But where you
changed as you started calling me, You started reaching out
to help for me instead of me calling you constantly.
You acting like, oh, no, I'm fine when you weren't fine,
and you got up in front of the team. There's

(13:34):
one time I remember, at the end of November, you
got up in front of the team and you finally
opened up to them like, man, I'm struggling, And it
just I think changed your whole dynamic with him.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
Yeah, I think you know.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
My natural inclination, you know all along is when you
go through something, you know it's your job as a
man to solve the problems on your own, and you
internalize it all and then you actually draw further away
from the people that you need to draw nearer to
the opposite when you actually handle it the right way.
And I don't think it's by mistake that good things result.
It as a you know, you know, in response to

(14:08):
leaning on people more acknowledging some of those things where hey,
you can still be a strong leader and actually even
a stronger leader by acknowledging the real emotions that you're feeling.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
That doesn't make you weak, that actually makes you strong.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
And I thought that was really demonstrated by whether it's you,
you know, I see, you know, some of my closest friends,
whether they're on the coaching staff or even some of
our players, that are great representatives of embody in that
type of mindset and mentality. And man, does that come
with a comfort because all these things, all these emotions
that you know, and you've said this before, and I
love the fact that you said, hey, people might have

(14:43):
different problems, but they all weigh the same to them
and acknowledging that, being empathetic to it, acknowledging your own things,
and then how you can band together. And that's really
what the preface of Unbreakable has been. Everything that you
stand for is bringing people together, understanding that the sum
is greater than the parts, and you know, and that
to me is what life's about. That's what teams, sports

(15:05):
are about, that's what friendships and you know. And it
all goes back to being able to, you know, do
these things together with people, but not be naive to
the fact that and this is hard stuff and real stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
And I really want our audience to really hear what
he just said. All our problems were the same, right,
our wallets are non antidepressants. You may sit at home
right now and go, oh, come on, as the head
coach of the Rams, guys making millions and millions right now,
just one of the Trooper Bowl, what kind of problems.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Does he have? Listen, we all got problems, right if
we didn't.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
If if our wallet and fame weren't antidepressants, then celebrities
wouldn't commit suicide, right, the rich and famous wouldn't kill themselves.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
And we see it all the time.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So it really is I want people to understand, no
matter who you are, we all face those issues. And
it's interesting because one of the things I have in
the book Away Through the Grade of the Blue is
to have a team, right, to have a team, but
as a head coach, it's so hard to use that
pillar to get to the blue or here you have

(16:04):
fifty three guys and you're younger, so they're kind of
like your peers right in that locker room, a.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Bunch of how many coaches you have twenty plus okay, twenty.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Plus coaches right, all these people in the building, and
yet instead of leaning into your team, you isolated.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
More and more.

Speaker 5 (16:23):
That's when I've been at my worst. I've done that,
you know.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
But I think when you start to learn about it,
you start to understand better how to you know, whether
it's even just mature and as a man, how to
handle things better.

Speaker 5 (16:36):
That's what it's always about.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
And I think the biggest thing too, though, is is
like you say, different problems, I think people acknowledge and
come about it in their own timing as well, Like
it's got to be on their timing. And that's what
I've learned, is like you want to be consistent and know,
whether it's players or coaches, you are there for them.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
Some guys, as soon as.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
You acknowledge you know certain things, you know, it's like
they can't wait for you to ask that so that
they can really exhale and pour in and be able to.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
Really let you know what's going on. And that might
happen the first time.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
There's other guys that you've got to patiently let them
come about it in their own way. And and I think
that was probably where, uh, it took a little bit
more time for me to be able to open up
about the things that you know, I've had trouble with.
Whether it's acknowledging just some of the own insecurities that
you have, you know, whether you say it's oppression, whatever,
these are real emotions that are very strong in your internal.

Speaker 5 (17:28):
Being that are not pleasant.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
You know.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
I don't know if it's the gray, but I know
it ain't the blue, and you know, and you know,
and they you know, hey, it's it's a true thing.

Speaker 5 (17:39):
But you know, for me, it's just knowing that, you know.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
I think what's so rare about you, Jay, is you're
so willing to share everything. And that's such a great
example because of the platform that you have and how
you're utilizing it. But just because this is something that's
made you so unique and special, it doesn't mean the
other people that are struggling with this need to feel like,
all right, I'm going to come out with this immediately.
It's on your time, sure, and on your time right.

(18:05):
Also to be able to have the appropriate healing mechanisms
and establish that armor, because you know, it's not like.
One of the things that I've learned from you that's
been really helpful is you know, it's not like, Okay, hey,
I'm having everything's going great. Men the blue all right,
and that means now you're just in the blue forever,
you know, Okay, How do we handle when that goes

(18:25):
back down and you're not feeling good? How are we
equipped with the knowledge the ability to own it but
then be able to get back to where we want
to be. Those are the things that I think people
are most interested in learning from you well, and.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
I want people to understand also, Sean, I've been friends
for a while, a really good friends. But I turned
to him with my own mental health issues and he's
turned to me with his, and it's gotten us closer.
Neither one of us has told us to suck it up.
I haven't told Sean, oh, stop showing your life's great,
just get over it. Oh so what you're losing right now?
He's not told me all your life is great? Stop

(19:01):
pitching and whining doesn't happen, So the opposite has happened.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
We've gotten closer because.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Of the vulnerability, and I want people at home to
understand that everybody I've opened up to it has gotten
us closer together. The more you open up to people,
the more it's going to draw you in. But for you,
sean where you're in a unique position, and there's a
lot of people out there, and I guess probably there's
some people in a similar position, but maybe maybe now
as a football coach, But the leader needs to take

(19:29):
care everybody else, right who takes care of the leader?

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Well, I think for me, it's it's where we've been
able to create. You know. It's it's friends like you.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
It's my wife, Veronica, it's my parents, Tim and Cindy,
my family, you know. And I really look at it
as we've got people, whether it's coaches or staff members,
you know, the Reggie Scotts of the world, or Ian Morris.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
I mentioned Chris.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Shwlett, where you can really lean on these guys and
your players.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
One of the most helpful things, honestly that was probably
a game changing co conversation is you know, I don't
know how you would categorize and maybe you know this,
you know, what are different levels of negative feelings that
you have? You know, I don't know if there's a
specific criteria, but I know that certain emotions are not pleasant.
And when you're going through some of the things that

(20:16):
we went through last year and some of the outside
in narratives with myself and Matthew Stafford, we became.

Speaker 5 (20:22):
Really close friends.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
And one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had
with really anybody as it relates to just handling adversity
was when Key and I after we had had that
tough month in November, we lose all three games that
coincided with the bye. We're getting ready for Jacksonville that
next week, and I think it was you know, it
never felt like it was too much, but man, it

(20:43):
was a lot, and it was okay for us to say,
you know, this has been a challenge, but let's not
forget about leaning on each other, enjoying this leading the
way that we know we're capable of and let the
chips fall where they may. And I know a lot
of the insecurities and the bad emotions that I was
feeling at the time came from me being more outside.

Speaker 5 (21:00):
In the inside out. And I don't think it's the
joy one.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
You're saying forgetting the joy, you're forgetting the joy of
it one.

Speaker 5 (21:06):
Hundred percent, you know.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
And then you really start worrying about all right, well, okay,
where does myself worth coming to play because we're not winning?
And then you feel responsible and all that kind of stuff,
and then, like I was saying earlier, you unpack it,
and man, there's a piece that comes with unpacking those
emotions that hey, it's okay to feel that way, but
when you really do acknowledge what's going on, is that

(21:28):
really real? Or are those your insecurities on things that
do you really care about what people that don't know
you or what or have any opinion about what they
think outside in other than the people that are in
a position to care about you unconditioning to know what
really matters, And that's how you pour into people, that's
how you try to help them work through different things.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
And with that, I think just came a piece.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
And it doesn't mean that it's forever that piece, but
it's using those things to draw back on and to say, man,
those are the times where you showed you can come
out of it, and it's just don't lose the hope
that hey, this is not finality, this is temporary.

Speaker 5 (22:07):
If we use the things that.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
We know, we're capable of the people that we're around
and really unpacking these emotions to help us get to
a place set I think everybody deserves to be in
And I think a lot of this mental health stuff
and you correct me if I'm wrong, not all of it,
and you're much better equipped to articulate it. Jay comes
from this outside in narrative that is pushed that people

(22:30):
think they have to be something that just isn't true
or real.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Absolutely, that's what social media does and that's where like
for me talking about mental health, I'm clinical. This is
the only memory I have from a little kid on.
So I got taken to a therapist when I was
four by my parents. Like so even back then they're like, hey.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
You're screwed up. So mine's clinical. But for the rest
of the world, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
Let me ask you this because this is going on,
because I'm not interrupting, I want to hear it again,
your perspective on this, So, how would you articulate to
the audience knowing that, hey, you know, I've shared some
of the struggles being in a leadership role where you
worry about things that really don't matter, and that creates
these negative emotions. And then you talk about the clinical approaches,
how do people even though they're negative emotions? You know,

(23:14):
how would you describe the difference in knowing are once clinical?
One is just you know, some of the insecurities, like
how do people cope with that? Because there's still a
similar bad feeling. But what's the difference in your mind
between those two?

Speaker 2 (23:29):
So you know, one is again I think you know
there's different also between problems and mental health issues depression anxiety. Right,
So a lot of times people have problems like, oh,
I'm so depressed, Well you're depressed because you have these problems,
or you may not suffer from depression. I suffer from
depression anxiety. When things are great, I still may feel
like this morning was hard for me to get out

(23:50):
of bed. Every morning, it's hard for me to get
out of bed. It's never not, but I make that decision.
And once I make that decision to get out of bed,
I'm gonna be relentless. I'm gonna be really listen life.
That's it because I'm not gonna let this fucking gray
beat me.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
That's that.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
But the other part is what you're saying, And I
think we all are feeling the depression of anxiety because
those outside influences that.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
You're talking about.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Social media makes all of us think our lives suck, right,
we and thank god you're not on it, right, And
I've talked to you about it, like, just make sure
you don't do it, because all of a sudden, I've.

Speaker 5 (24:23):
Seen enough stuff written about me that hurts my feelings.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Right, and by the way you said it right there,
it does hurt your feelings, right. People think you're absolutely
people think, ah, hey he's rich and famous. It comes
with the territory.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Fuck that. People.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
We have feelings and because we're more emotional, that helped
us get to where we are, right. So I think
people at home also, like you know, social media, Like
we look at Instagram and we're comparing ourselves to everybody
else's filtered fraction of a second. It's not even the
full second of one day, and we're going, man, how

(24:58):
come I'm not at that party? Why am I so
left out? How come my food doesn't look like that?
And we think our lives suck. And we're talking the
most successful people in the world. They look at that
and it fucked for their brains. I think my life sucks.
Or like man, when we're growing up, when we got
bullied on the playground, it fucking sucked for a month.
I grew up with the jersey short, so it fuck sucked.

(25:18):
It sucked for a while. Okay, And now that's that's
why it's such a bully, which was what Sean calls me,
by the way, uh and uh and one of my
exes and uh and uh wait wait wait.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Real quick here, but Twitter, we see it at that.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
We get bullied a thousand times a second, right, it
never ends, and it's just this baraze of negativity. But
you just said it, and I want people to really
hear because you kind of almost threw it away. When
you hear bad stuff about you, Okay, and you're not
on Twitter, but if you see a bad tweet, we
see bad tweets about us.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
It fucking hurts. It sucks when you hear bad stuff
about you, It hurts you.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
Yeah, No, no matter how resilient and stuff like that,
it does affect you in some form or fashion. And
that's why you want to be, you know, cognizant of
how do you put good stuff in your being? But
going back, here's here's my question for you, because that
is a very real thing, and it leads.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Me into my question.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
You said something though about you wake up this morning
you felt the great But you knew when I got
out of bed, I'm going to be relentless and the
way that I approach my day. I think there's a
lot to be said for that. You know what, I
don't want to be. You know, I don't want to
speak out of place in terms of okay, what did
doctor say?

Speaker 5 (26:34):
But but I'm a big believer in this.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
You know, I think the power of your mind and
the power of the external people that you surround yourself
with has a huge influence on how the quality of
your life is felt if you really are living in
the right ways.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
What I mean by that is this, like, I think.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
That almost the majority of the events that occur in
our life right are out of our control. However, what
isn't our control is our response to those events and
how that dictates and determines what the outcome is. Based
on your response, you said you woke up with the gray,
I chose to be relentless. You seem like you're doing

(27:15):
a heck of a job in your first podcast right here,
seem like you know, you got that zest for life
with the guy that I know most of the you know,
when I'm around you, How do you challenge people that
are going through those same things to make.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
That choice sure and to really be able to be
that way?

Speaker 4 (27:32):
Because I know, for me, I've never regretted when I've
made those choices.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
But is there a difference in your mind and the
people that say usually this is a.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
Result of you know, actions or sometimes I just wake
up feeling that way. And what's the difference in allowing
this to be a strengthening mechanism and then also the
people you're around.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
So I'll use sports analogy for this, right And I
just talked about this to the to the Seahawks and
the Vikings in the USFL.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Thanks for talking to the rams there you go.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Hey, thanks for asking. So still waiting for the invite.
Mental health is too reactive right now? You don't just
like you don't have Cooper Cup only catch passes if
he has the drops, which by the way, it never does.
But let's just say he didn't. He doesn't only catch
passes if he has the drops right. You, Stafford doesn't

(28:21):
only throw passes when his accuracy is off.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
You constantly do it.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
But usually we only help our mental health when the
sky's falling. Therapists usually get us when it's too late,
right when the sky's already falling.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
So we need to start doing it now.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
So now you know, find things that will help you
on a daily basis. So I wake up now and
I learned and this. I'm gonna explain this in great
depth over the course of these podcasts because each week
I'm gonna have a guest on, but I'm also gonna
have other podcasts where it's just me kind of explaining
and how I feel that day, but also some things
that get me through it. But now, before I do

(28:56):
any before I ever look at my phone in the morning,
I make that decision. I get up and I do
fifteen minutes of breath work that I learned over in Thailand.
I do ten minutes of meditation that I learned how
to do over there. I wrote this gratitude list, so
I look at things that I'm grateful for before I
ever look at my phone that day, Right, so that's
a half hour.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
That's a win.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
That's a better way than it was for me, you know,
a month ago before I learned these things. But my
point is is, I'm constantly working out, same way I
constantly work in the gym. I'm constantly working on my
mental health. How can I improve it? Because I know
it's gonna be an uphill battle. And people think, and
by the way, again, people think, well the fuck you've.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
You've made it. When I made it, it was not
rainbows and unicorns. I thought it was.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
I thought it was gonna be like man, because I
don't know how to get love from the inside out.
It's motivated me to do all these great things from
the outside in, and you know, to get all this
outside love. And I thought once I made it, man,
my problems would end. It just doesn't happen that way.
It's not like them. In fact, a lot of times,
the more successful you are, that brings the whole other

(30:00):
set of problems along with it, and then you're horrified
to lose it. When you've had nothing, you're horrified to
lose it and go back to having nothing. So I
have to now work at it. I work my ass
off on staying out of the gray and in the blue.
And I now call people when I'm really struggling. And
what I'll do too is I'll call four people when

(30:23):
I'm really having those days and I'll say, man, I
am fucking struggling today, just to talk. And then and
I talked about having a team, and that's a team, Sean.
What also do is being of service helps me. I'll
then call four other people just to check up on
them and not telling them I'm struggling. And those are
the things that helps me get out of it, get

(30:44):
out of the gray. But again you're talking about how
do I prevent it? So I have all these things
that I do now in the morning, and I'm a
work in progress, like I'm fucked up and I'm learning
to be good with my fucked upness, right, And that's
where we're going to take this journey together, everybody on
this podcast together, We're going to walk this walk together.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
But you know, I'm now learning something to do at night.
Also that's helping me as well.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
And I have three different therapists that I use, so
it's a constant thing. And I want people to understand
that you got to put in just as much work
with this as you would at your job, as you
would working out, as you would have whatever craft or
whatever hobby you like, because if you could shine between
the ears and behind your ribcage, it's gonna lift you
up and everything else you do.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, that's such a good point, because you know, when
you talk about the quality of your mental health, you know,
regardless of whether or not people think they're going through it,
I think it's such a great point. Like you want
to stay in shape, or you want to be great
at anything, Repetition is the mother of learning. You got
to train it, you got to work at it. If
you want it to be healthy. You know, you got
to eat the right ways. And I think you know

(31:50):
some of the best times when I feel like you're
sustained with that armor. There's really two things that are
in alignment for me when you stay in a good place.
I'm always a hardwired, charging, very competitive guy that has
a lot of urgency and no patience.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
I understand that I know who you know.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
I'm realizing those things and that lack of impatience can
be a detriment, but it can be a strength. But
I know this to your point, Jay, there's really two
things that are consistent when I stay in a great
place and you end up saying, this is the kind
of life, and this is the kind of person I
want to be to the people that I care about
and I love unconditionally. It's number one when you're working

(32:26):
on those things, whether it's the meditations, the reading, the
center in yourself esteem is the way that I center
myself to begin the days, you know, where you kind
of do some breathing and you can't be reached by
anybody else. It's being able to get a workout where
good positive endorphins or release, and it's reading things that
educates you on all right. These are the things that
equip you with the strength to overcome those adversity. And

(32:49):
then number two, which is as important as anything, is
surrounding yourself with people that add to the quality of
your life. Like I believe so wholeheartedly that you become
the company you keep, and when you surround yourself with
people that are positive influences, that are that half glass full,
but that are also willing to acknowledge there's some struggles,
but they don't let that drag on because of that

(33:11):
resilient mindset of mentality.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
They want to have.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
That to me is when it leads to the best
quality of life and you're fulfilled because you're pouring into people.

Speaker 5 (33:20):
You're doing it with people that you love.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
And like I would challenge people that are listening to this,
you know, like really ask yourself, are you surrounding yourself
with the kind of people that are positive influences. Like
I know, there's been a lot of times in my
life where I've known people for a long time and
it took me a while to where you're saying, well,
I've known them for so long, but they're kind of
always a dread, they're always complaining about something, Like you know,

(33:42):
you don't really need people like that in your life.
You want to that you want of people that have
assessed for life that you're you're positively pouring into them
as they are and you and like I challenge people
to make sure that they're that person they want to
be to the people they're around. And when those two
things are aligned, Man, it's it's hard to break that
strengthening mechanism of born on your you know, of really

(34:05):
being able to kind of build into your own self
but then build into others and then have them build
back into you, and that's when I know I've seen
you at your best. That's when I'm always at my best.
And the times that I forget it are when I
let outside and influences affect my own ego or when
I draw further away from the people that I love

(34:25):
and care about the most to be able to work
through those things. And that's really like become evidently clear
from our relationship and over the last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
And I want people to understand also, and Sean just
gave us his I guess you're the way you handle these, right,
So you wake up in the morning, you get your
steam and you do breath work. You read a lot,
which is great, right, I know you're do an awful
lot of that. You have your gym time, which is
your other's end time. What you do like four times
a day, right, you're doing a little ten to workout
four times a.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
Day depends on you know, like it depends you know,
because further when you're when you have like a day
without the players, you know, usually I can work from
home or at the office and you go for about
a two hours of hard focused concentration. Then I need
a thirty minute break just for you know, myself to
settle down and so whatever that looks like, but.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
It just kind of depends.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
But those are the things that have helped kind of
find a rhythm and routine that's in alignment with sustaining
you know, that overall well being that you want.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
And then and then obviously leaning into your team, which
is what we just talked about again, and being your
family and your crew.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
So and I want people to understand this, right I
have my you know, this is my routine, that's Shawn's routine.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
When the gray is taken over, it's really easy to
not do that routine anymore. So I want people to
know that's when you have to step it up and
make sure no matter what you do the routine. As
much as you don't feel like working out, you got
to drag your ass and that Jim, as much as
you don't feel like talking about gratitude, you got to
force yourself to do it because it's those down times

(35:59):
they're going to help you really realish in your life
and to get a lot of that great anticipate. When
you went through November last year, were you still doing
this routine or did you let it fall off?

Speaker 4 (36:13):
No, there was times when I wasn't but then when
I got back to it, you know, I can't remember
exactly how it went. Jay, I know it wasn't a
good feeling, but it's when it's going tough. But I
also think to your point too, when things are good,
don't lose sight of building that foundation and that armor.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
And so that's why you should go to a therapist.
Even when even when times are good, talk to a therapist.
That's when you could build new.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Tools correct and like to me, why I think this
is for everybody is that you know, there's different levels
of you know, emotions that people feel.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
But I don't know anybody I've ever met in my
life that doesn't want a high quality of well being
for their mental health. And if you say, all right,
these are the things that are in alignment.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
With consistently obtaining and achieving that or helping you overcome
some of the tough moments you're in to get to
those places, I don't know that I've met anybody that
would say, you know, I don't want really that you
know those people I question you know you're saying it,
but I just think that there's a lot of different things.

Speaker 5 (37:13):
But to me. It's consistency in a rhythm and routine.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
It's acknowledging all the insecurities that, in different forms or fashions,
we all have. And then who are the people that
you can lean on, who are the people that you
can pour back into where the real fulfillment and purpose
comes from. And then what are the things that create
that stillness for you? You know, Jay and I have
different things, even though they might be similar types of activities,

(37:38):
but you know, it's really you know, I think a
lot of it too, is really being able to have
a self awareness with people that are around you that
can be unconditional, and being able to tell you what
you need to hear, not what you want to hear.
You know, That's what I'm so grateful for. And then
also being able to really dive deep and own some
of these things that you're feeling, so then you can
figure out what are the best ways that I can

(37:59):
equip myself with the strength to be able to live
the quality of life that I think everybody deserves to live.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Hey, look, and it's a different world nowadays.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Look, your grandfather did this business for a long time,
and I think she'd be in the Hall of fame
quite honestly. But here you are in your fifth year. Absolutely,
uh fifth year. Last year's your fifth year, right is
that fifth year? Okay, so your fifth year, that's my point, right,
So last year, I would there are times last year
I'm like, I think he's gonna quit in the middle

(38:28):
of the.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Year, which I know you're not a quitter, so you weren't.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
And then after the year, obviously there's a lot of
talk of you go and stepping away to Amazon. That's
something that your grandfather and people would like. Man, they
were able to do this for years and years and years.
But in just five years, this job got to you
that much where you thought about it.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
That's that's a mental health thing.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Yeah, I mean I think I think what it is is,
I think a lot of it is is, you know,
it's me the way that I'm wired to kind.

Speaker 5 (38:54):
Of drive and push.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
I think you know this, you know, I always am
going to be a guy that just snows one speed
and that full speed as it relates to competing and.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
Doing those types of things. But finding that balance that's
exhausted enough. It's exhausted, you know.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
But but you know what though, like it's it's how
do you acknowledge the fact that this is probably who
you are? But how do you really counter those things
to be able to have a better understanding of all right, well,
why do you feel these ways? And I think the
best thing that came out of last year or even
some of the tough moments that we've gone through. And
you know this too, Jay, Like it's easy for people
to kind of roll their eyes after you say this,

(39:29):
after the way the season ended, but I truly do
believe this, Like you know me well enough to know
like you know, and it sounds silly when you say
it out loud, you go from seven to one to
seven and four, but you know it's in the midst
of adding Vaughn and Odell, the you know, the outside
in narrative and everybody's kind of writing you off, and
then you really say, like, Okay, how do I what

(39:50):
really did I love about coaching? And what do I
love about football? You know, like in its truest form
when you get back to whether you're playing or even
when you start coaching and be where you let all
the outside end stuff blur and create those great things
and it's about people and it's porn into people and
it's finding a team and it's doing something about Hey,

(40:11):
I want to see these guys succeed more than my
own selfish ambitions. And I don't think it's by coincidence
that good things happen. We were able to overcome some
moments and the players and the ones that made the place,
make no mistake about it, all right, But I can
look back and say, you know what, I was proud
of being a good advocate and you know, being able
to lean on people, acknowledge some of the insecurities, but

(40:33):
then be strong and resilient in some of those tough
moments that helped us overcome and that that, to me
is one of my favorite parts.

Speaker 5 (40:40):
Now. I think the big thing that we've continued to say.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
On this is this is not a there's not like
an ending point to this journey. This is a constant
way of seeking to live a high quality, a high
state of life, as our guy John Gordon would say,
And you know, and those things are about people and
equipping yourself with the knowledge on how you best can
handle those things. And you know, when you feel those

(41:05):
types of things coming, what's the best way that we
can minimize that as quickly as possible.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I want to get back to you being the leader
right when you first got this job. And as you know,
I always tell you know, the guys who are first
time coaches like, be prepared because the stuff that's about
to come across your desk you can never imagine. So
when you're in this role now and you gets brought
to your attention, Hey, this player is suicidal, this person's
wife is suicidal, this is this person's gone down a

(41:34):
rabbit hole. This guy is getting suspended for this, this
guy is man, he's getting built down of money here,
this guy's father has this or whatever it is. All
the problems that suddenly come to you. A. Were you
prepared for it? B? How do you suddenly handle that?
That's that's a lot it is.

Speaker 5 (41:54):
I think number one.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
You know, when I was first hired Jay, and I
look back on it, there was a genuine ignorance is
bliss in terms of the things that I get upset
or pissed off about now. I wouldn't have even known
when I was thirty years old that that freaking matters,
you know, And I have to constantly remind myself of all, right,
how do you prioritize an attack?

Speaker 5 (42:14):
And it's all about our people, you know.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
But I think it's I think, you know, the couple
things that have really helped me is as you accumulate experience,
people are more comfortable, they get to know you a
little bit better. Where hey, that vulnerability comes first and
the trust, but I think time, you know, really both
of those things come with time and being able to
I know this when I've had players that I've talked to,

(42:38):
being able to say like, hey, it's okay not to
be perfect.

Speaker 5 (42:41):
I've had my own things that I have to work through.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
What that does in terms of lightening the load for
them to open up, Like, I think there's this just
narrative that everybody feels like they have to be perfect
and if they're not, they're weak, and that that is
just so false. And so I think it's the acknowledgment
of that, the understanding of what comes with this, and
then the main thing, Like I've talked with NBA guys,
you know, Doc Rivers and I have gotten really close,

(43:04):
and I think the big thing that's different. You know,
we talked about it earlier in the car you got
fifty three players, I really look at it. We got
sixty nine when you add our sixteen practice squad players,
you know, and then you've got twenty plus coaches. You
have to be able to lean on all of those
people to be able to cultivate the environment in the
atmosphere by the way that you treat them, the way

(43:24):
that you let them know how important their role is
and how it contributes to the greater good. But you
can't do it all. And that's the biggest thing is
having great coaches or having great leadership from our locker
room has been instrumental and handling it the right way.
And as soon as you lose sight of it, it's
all about the people that you're around.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
That's when it just, you know, goes sideways.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
And that's the one thing that you can never prepare
for all the things that come across your desk. But man,
it's a lot easier to be able to handle it
when you got people you can lean on.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
And even if you are innately thrust into a.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Leadership role, sometimes the best thing you can say is,
you know what, I don't know? Answer, I don't have that,
but let me listen, learn and then I can lead
the right way.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
We talked earlier in this podcast about some of our pillars, right,
and what we do and some of the routines that
we have, And one of them, I said was was
being of service. Another one is you know, is having
that team, and the third one is laughter. And I'm
gonna leave you with this gang. So Sean threw his
whole team off of the practice field and training campus
here and I was driving with him after and all
I did is start laughing at you in the car, right,

(44:26):
Like I just got in the car and You're like,
the fuck is this guy laughing at And now you
know why I was laughing.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Hey, if he can't cry, you gotta laugh, right.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
I mean, we had about twenty false starts in fifteen plays.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
I don't know how it's possible. What it was, it was,
it's not a good movie. I was very upset.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
He was quite upsent.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Hey, look, and I wanted to make sure we kind
of hit a little laugh here because we talked about
some heavy stuff and I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Man. That's you know, we pull our skin back.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
And we're vulnerable and we're raw, and it helps out
so many people by doing the to roll walk of
this walk together. Before I let you go, one last
thing I'm going to ask all my guests this, give
me your unbreakable moment, your moment of something you overcame.
It could be any pump point in your life, something
that you had to overcome, something that man, you worked

(45:16):
so hard, you finally got it. Something that man, you
came through the other side of this tunnel.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
It didn't break you. You came through the other side.
What would that be?

Speaker 4 (45:25):
I think to me, you know, there's so many things
that I could reference and that come to mind, you know,
But I think the unbreakable moment for me has been,
you know, an ever evolving thing of you know, really
working on acknowledging the things that when I unpack are
really my own insecurities or my ego getting in the way.
And a small demonstration of that is leaning on people

(45:47):
like yourself, our players are coaches through that month of November.
But I just think, you know, the unbreakable moment is
really living an unbreakable life in regards to doing the
things that you talked about, consistently poor into people, surrounding
yourself with positive influences, living the life that you want
to live, and then being able to sustain yourself with

(46:08):
the armor to overcome when you feel these feelings, or
when the outside pressure starts to get to you and
you're feeling bad in your gut and you say, no, no, no,
how do I unpack this? I think it's a continuation
for me, Jay, but I think it starts with being
around people that allow you to be comfortable enough to
acknowledge these feelings that you have, and then equipping yourself

(46:29):
with the people and the knowledge on Hey, this shit
is only temporary. The tough times don't last, the tough
people do. And being able to be a tough person
means acknowledging your and being vulnerable, but also leaning on
other people born into them, and that leads to living
an unbreakable life, which I think we're all really trying
to achieve.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Dude, I appreciate you coming on first, guest. They're kicking
us off, man, I really appreciate you.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
We'll set the bar low. It's like my dad always said,
you know, under promise over the liver.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Hey, you can only go off from here. I appreciate
you joining me again. Sean McVay, head coach of the Rams,
the night before their season opener against the Buffalo bilsing
for everybody else out there.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
We appreciate you joining us here

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Jonas Knox

Jonas Knox

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