April 21, 2021 • 38 mins
Clay Travis is joined by FOX and Friends' Will Cain for their Wednesday conversation. The fellas talk in detail about Deshaun Watson's questionable defense, hypocrisy in the NBA, Woj's ESPN article, and politics in the Oscars. Clay wraps the day with some positivity about how sports can help the country.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Outkicked the Coverage with Clay Travis Live every weekday morning
from six to nine a m. E Stern three to
six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for Outkicked the Coverage at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every morning on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs are you're listening to Fox
(00:23):
Sports Radio. I talked about this to start the show,
but we got a verdict in the Derek Chauvin case.
This is something that would have likely impacted sports in
a big way if the verdict had not been guilty
of all of the counts there. Um. And I've talked
(00:43):
about this in the first hour. I did not watch
this trial in earnest right, um, And so I'm not
going to put my lawyer hat on and analyze the
individual aspects of the case because I did not watch
the pros acution entirely. I did not watch the defense
attorneys entirely. I did not follow this case in a
(01:06):
in a really vigorous or rigorous fashion. And so I
think it's unfair if you don't watch everything to come
on and have some strong opinion about exactly what was
said in the courtroom. This is me speaking as a lawyer,
not as a person who is out there just watching
the trial. But I will say this, and I think
it's important to say this right off the top. The
(01:28):
goal of the American judicial system, and I think I
speak for many lawyers out there, hopefully almost all lawyers
out there, is for the American judicial system to treat
everyone the exact same, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, uh sexuality,
any identifying characteristic that often gets becomes a major flashpoint
in today's identity politics laden era. And I believe that
(01:53):
we are every single day becoming more likely to do that.
And I understand that there are a lot of people
out there obsessed on social media and they want to
tell you that the American judicial system can't be trusted,
and that juries can't be trusted, and the judges can't
be trusted, and the lawyers can be trusted. And I'm
here to tell you that the reason why the American
(02:14):
judicial system is the envy of the entire world is
not because we're perfect, because we're not, because we are
created by man and anything that's created by man is
going to be imperfect, but because we are consistently striving
to get better the American judicial system is better now
than it was in the eighteen hundreds. It's better now
than it was in the nineteen hundreds. I believe that
(02:35):
the American judicial system is getting better at treating everybody
the same, regardless of their background, which should be the
goal of the American judicial system. And so, without diving
into all the particulars of the Derek Chouven case, I
do believe that the history of the American judicial system
(02:57):
bends towards justice and bends towards right, just nous, regardless
of your race, your gender, your ethnicity, your religion. Some
people disagree with that. As a lawyer, I believe that
I have seen the court system and how it works,
and uh, I believe that that is the case. I
am optimistic on the future of the American judicial system,
not pessimistic, all right. Putting that aside much less serious news,
(03:22):
and we have been focusing most of the show on
much less serious news, I wanted to hit you with
this fact as we finished off the second hour of
the program, I was talking about wide receivers and the
difference between a first and a second round wide receiver. UH.
In the larger universe of of the NFL Draft, and
(03:42):
basically we've reached the era at least over the last
five years. We have two thousand, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,
and nineteen drafts. Six years, which would you pick? These
are the best first round wide receivers. Calvin Ridley, d J. Moore,
Mike Evans, A Mari coup for Corey Davis, Brandon Cooks,
(04:02):
Marquis Brown, Odell Beckham Jr. Those are roughly the eight
best wide receivers drafted in the first round. About second
round Davante Adams, A. J. Brown, DK Metcalf, Michael Thomas,
Allen Robinson, Deebo Samuel, Juju Smith, Schuster, Jarvis Landry. I
don't know about you. I'd rather have the second round
(04:23):
wide receivers over the last uh six years of the
draft at wide receiver than I would the first rounders.
Is that going to be the case this year? I
don't know, but I think it's something worth keeping in
the back of your mind. Jamaar Chase, Davante Smith, and
Jalen Waddle seemed to be considered to be on a
completely different level than every other wide receiver in the NFL,
(04:45):
but historically over the last five six years, you've been
just as good trading back and taking wide receivers later
in the second round than you have been taking them
right off the top in the first round. All right, Uh,
we're gonna be joined now out. I believe we've got
him ubed, we have him well, we got a ton
to get into. But I want to start here with
(05:06):
you this Deshaun Watson defense. Um, you are a Texas
trained lawyer. You're familiar with Rusty Harden, Tony Buzby, but
even more than that, like the larger than life personas
that some of these Texas lawyers can adopt. I think
it's fair to say that both of these guys fit
that perspective. I I am just stunned that Deshaun Watson's
(05:32):
defense seems to be in this case that twenty two
different women are lying and he didn't do anything remotely inappropriate.
Are you kind of stunned that he's paying and he's
basically calling these women liars? Not basically he is, which,
as you well know, it makes it even harder to
maybe one day settle this case because some of these
(05:55):
women and their families are gonna say, wait a minute,
why would we take money from Deshaun Watson after he
called us liars. Like this thing just keeps getting ratcheted up,
it seems like to another level every single week. Yes,
that certainly poisons the waters for any potential settlement. But
I've been thinking about this clay, and they're boxed in there,
(06:15):
in there, rocked in a hard place. I mean, you're
a Tennessee trained lawyer. I don't know what defense at
this point, Rusty Harden, Deshaun Watson can put together twenty
two different women making accusations. That's a bear. I mean,
this is the kind of thing that you normally see
quietly or as quietly as possible, settled as quickly as possible.
(06:37):
That's what usually happens if you have something like this.
I don't know what his defense could be to go
through and make a factual claim on each and every
one of these women in each and every one of
these incidents. Is that he can say he was on
the right side of each of these interactions. I don't
know how he does. He is literally boxed in, and
I think he has to settle it and make you
go away. I agree, which makes saying there why years
(07:00):
makes the settlement that much more difficult. And also it
seems like it prolongs it in many ways because everything
that they're doing is making the environment more antagonistic instead
of trying to either stay quiet and uh and I
do think that they tried to stay quiet initially, but
then the number of women, I think they were stunned
(07:21):
by them. I also think Will, and I'm not sure
if you've thought a lot about this. You know, when
you are young and wealthy, there are a lot of
people that will surround you, particularly in the world of athletics,
and tell you their yes men right there, hype men.
We've seen it throughout the history of athletics. Uh, They're
very few truth tellers. And I wonder the more and
(07:43):
more I read about this case, Deshaun Watson, it seems
to me got really bad advice. Will. The first woman
who came public wanted a hundred thousand dollars. That means
they probably could have settled it for fifty kh or
seventy k or so. That's literally something that, given to
on Watson's income, he would not even have known happened.
(08:04):
And yet they decided to fight it, which is how
this blew up. Even if they had not thought it
was a legitimate claim. The hit to Deshaun Watson's reputation
from a lawsuit like this being filed presuming that he
had in fact gotten a massage from her is worth
more than a hundred thousand dollars, and it's very difficult
to prove even in a case of he said, she
(08:25):
said that, somebody's a percent not telling the truth. I
just think Deshaun Watson's advisers, his lawyers, early on his agent,
I think they all maybe we're afraid to sit him
down and explain where this was headed where now his
career is legitimately being threatened in many ways, so that
(08:45):
advice on three different fronts, and I can think of
they're probably suffering from whiplash. So to your point, in
the beginning, it was probably a consideration of this is
not that big a deal. This will go away. You
don't pay this person, you didn't do anything wrong, and
that's why he didn't settle. Now he's probably the other direction,
worried that if he does settle, if he does go
(09:07):
about trying to make this go away, twenty two turns
into forty two, that you know, if he if it
appears as though he's out there a many wrongdoing and
and and giving financial settlements all of a sudden, the
number of masseuses that have claims doubles and triples, because
he clearly wasn't very He didn't have a lot of discretion.
He was very flagrant about this allegedly. If we've got
(09:28):
this many number of people doing so, and then and
in the last piece of bad advice you got is
to your point of you never hear no when you're
famous like this, he clearly lost sight again allegedly. I mean,
I want to emphasize that over and over, and I
know you appreciate that as well. I'm not I'm not
the fact finder in this. I'm not the jury. But um,
he clearly wasn't ever told you know, if this is true, hey,
(09:51):
this is over the line. You need to be careful
or to extend to anyone new right And if you've
been doing this, you know you need to shut this down.
And I think at some point Clay early in this process,
he was under the impression this isn't that big of
a deal, and he had to have people around him
telling him it's not that big of a deal, which
is a lack of self awareness, a lack of the
client and a clear lack of right wrong. If it's true,
(10:14):
don't you also think that if you're advising this guy,
it should be hard for him to have a hundred
different masseuses. Like, one of the first conversations you need
to have in this situation with Deshaun Watson is Okay, man,
she says that she was your private masseus. I mean,
I think this is one of the first questions I
would have asked anyway, if I were representing him, how
many private masseuses have you had? Right? And if he
(10:37):
said a hundred. Yeah, if he said a hundred, I'd
be like, oh, because the reason why I'm bringing that
up is, you know, then how many other women could
come forward with a similar claim? Right? The single most
important question to me is, look, if Deshaun Watson says, man,
you know what, I probably have have had three different
(10:57):
women who have given me massages in my entire you know,
career as a Houston Texan, I would be like, Okay,
I don't think there's a lot we need to be
worried about here, right, because three different women, that's a
reasonable number. If he says a hundred, and my next
question would have been a hundred. The next question I
think a lot of people out there listening also would
have been, Okay, how are you meeting all these women?
(11:20):
And he was like, well, I was sending them direct
messages on Instagram. I'd be like, oh so, so. I
wonder on some level whether they had, you know, sort
of the lawyer come to Jesus meeting with Deshaun Watson
when this allegation was made, because knowing what liability is
out there is a big part of whether or not
you might decide to privately get this deal taken care of.
(11:44):
And given how much money Deshaun Watson has at stake
and how young in his career, it is like having
somebody tell him, hey, this is not a good situation.
You can't put yourself out there again and again, you
can't do this anymore, would have maybe on a long
way towards reconciling and solving this situation and keeping it
from blowing up in a huge way in a public fashion.
(12:07):
And that's my point. In the beginning, he was acting
like they were acting like this could only be one
or two alegants. That's right, But now I think their
behavior suggests it is potentially a hundred you know now
that you won't make it go away. I think their
fear is how big is it? Because because if you
settle with twenty two, you don't protect yourself from three
(12:28):
through sixty, you know. And by the way, he doesn't
know what the number is. And maybe he's never been
able to communication that there was a story and I
read the stories that he had reached out to the
same asseuse twice. You know, there was a bat to
even recognize that he had had contact with whatever before
exactly he reapproached her and she's like, yes, but it
can't be like last time, and he was like then
(12:49):
he went radio silent, like he didn't know he'd already
had a massage from this person. Yeah, that's not that's
again goes to the overall numbers that might be involved.
And by the way, I don't know what, Like I
understand the legal angle that Tony Buzzby, the PLANEFFS lawyer
is following here, Like it's logical to me and you
know as well as anybody who's also practiced, like you
(13:10):
don't get to choose the decisions that your clients make,
and they can put you in a really difficult spot.
But I still haven't heard any sort of legal angle
argument from Rusty Harden where I've been like, oh, you
know what, I can see that, like Rusty Harton's seemed
to trot out. You saw this too, like, hey, the
reason why you had so many masseuses was because COVID
(13:30):
was going on. And You're like, wait, that would actually
that's the exact opposite, Like that would make you want
to have as few as possible, right, And then he's like, well,
he might have had as many as a hundred and
fifty massages last year, and I'm like, a hundred hundred
and every other day he got a massage, Like these
are all bad facts. It doesn't seem to me that
they have hit on a factual argument where you're like, okay,
(13:53):
I could see that, because, as you well know, the
way that people respond to cases is is this a
believeable story or not? Right, Like, oh, I could see that.
That seems like something reasonable, And that's oftentimes how juries
make choices, because we all in our lives kind of
have a sense for what's reasonable and what's not reasonable,
(14:14):
and that often dictates who we believe and who we
don't believe. Not only that by the way, will His
other defense was, well, yeah, these twenty two women say
they were sexually assaulted, but here's eighteen other masseuses who
say that Deshaun Watson didn't do anything to them, which
you know, as a legal defense. First of all, it
just admits how many different masseuses you had. But also
(14:36):
it's a little bit like somebody coming out and saying, well,
he couldn't have committed murder because look at all these
other people he didn't kill. Well, you as well as
everybody out there, knows that most people engaging in criminal
conduct don't do it every day, all day long to
everyone that they are around, and jury would never buy like, hey,
(14:56):
what's your murder defense for this guy? Well, I'm just
gonna put twenty five guys who knew him that he
didn't kill. You wouldn't be like, oh, this proves that
he didn't kill that other person, or that he didn't
rob a bank or whatever it is. And so I
just I don't know, Like Rusty Harden seems to me
like he is not helping his client in any way
because his arguments all have either flaws that are pretty
(15:19):
a gargantuan or actually served to undercut his client even more. Yeah,
I think I said this one time in the past
when we spoke, But I'm sure there are plenty of
women out there who had perfectly non violent interactions with
O J. Simpson. That does us a lot about what
happened with Nicole Brown Simpson. That's right, that's right. And
by the way, o J had his video up. I
saw this Wednesday discussing the show then trial and hoping
(15:43):
that the jury would reach the right verdict, which is
so off the wall, unbelievably, absurdly ironic. I don't even
know what to say. Um. All right, So a couple
of other big stories that are out here. I think
this is Masson. We're talking to wil Kaine. You can
watch him on Fox and Friends six to ten am
Eastern on Saturday and Sunday. Also has got a podcast.
You can search out that podcast. All these different NBA
(16:04):
players have deals with two different Chinese companies. Uh, and
among them Dwyane Wade obviously I know who's retired, but um,
a lot of top players, Clay Thompson, D'Angelo Russell, uh,
the Jimmy Butler. The list is pretty wrong long. And
we wrote about that it's also wrong. As I was
(16:25):
about to say, um, but all these NBA players are
out there saying, hey, we care about social justice, we
stand for important things in this country. Chinese sneaker companies
will and it blows my mind. This is the case.
Nike came out and said, hey, we're not going to
use cotton produced by slave labor from Muslim concentration camps
(16:47):
in China, and Nike, to their credit, that's obviously the
right side of of history, so to speak. They got
crushed in China, and these two Chinese sneaker companies came
out and said not that they were going to cease
using and said we are intentionally going to use slave
labor cotton in our shoes. How dare you say something
(17:10):
bad about the Chinese government and the NBA and all
these players are making millions of dollars off of these
sneaker deals that are truly being produced with slave labor,
and almost no one in the media is asking them questions.
Almost no one in the media is even raising it
as a worthy topic of discussion. Why do you think
(17:32):
that is? And how absurdly hypocritical is it for NBA
players to literally be playing in basketball games in slave
labor produced sneakers. Okay, I'll answer those in reverse order. Um,
how absurdly hypocritical is it? It is? It is insanely hypocritical. Um. Now,
I know what they would argue back to you. I
(17:53):
know most of the people in defense of the NBA
players would say. They would say, look, their primary, their
prim very objective of their primary priority in life is
to help social justice in the United States of America.
And they can't go around the world trying to solve
all of the world social justice issues. Handle the ones
in your own backyard. And for NBA players, at the
top of that party list are issues concerning African Americans.
(18:16):
That's what they would say, right, And that's how they
would justify to themselves as well. And that's fine. All
that means is you're you're not particularly you're not making
a particularly principled stand. You're not truthfully you know all
about the is you care about social justice when it
either helps you or helps your paycheck? Right? What I
(18:38):
want to get to the first part the first party
is that we're being charitable. Then they first have to
admit you only care about social justice when it impacts
you or your direct community. And that's but then we
get to the more hypocritical part of this is, but
you're taking you're not just picking and choosing which of
these battles to fight. You're not just doing that. You're
not ignoring what's happening in the Middle East. Right, It's
not simply that you're actually taking money in doing business
(19:02):
deals with the people violating those exact principles you say
that you are fighting for. Even though it's somewhere else
and far away, you're now willing to participant in those
exact same crimes. You're taking money. And so that's where
it gets to the height of absurdity. And it's not
just good enough to say, well, it's not in my backyard,
and I have priorities of things that occur in my backyards.
By the way, there's also scale. There's nothing in the
(19:23):
United States that they're fighting for in the social justice front.
It's even close to slave labor. So we can also
just point out the absurdity on scale here, you know. Um,
But then your second question was why isn't the media
do with just question about it, just hold them accountable
for this perspective, which is supposedly the job of the
media right, because they're in bed with stars, because star
(19:44):
access is the most important thing in this business. It's
absolutely friendly. Relationships with stars is the most important thing
in the NBA. That's the bottom line, you know. And
and so you go along to get along. And plus
probably these NBA writers also, it's far away it They're like,
it's far away, it's in China. It doesn't it doesn't
it drive, doesn't drive clicks, it doesn't drive virtue. It
(20:05):
doesn't make me popular with any audience. Don't do anything
for me, opsite makes me unpopular. We're gonna bring Will
back for another segment here in a moment. This is
outkicked the coverage with Clay Travis well Kine still hanging
out with us. The Super League in uh in Europe.
(20:28):
We talked about this on the show. We drafted our
super League of college football teams. We had a lot
of fun with it. It almost immediately is like these
guys spend months trying to figure out a way to
announce the super League and then the minute it gets announced,
there's tons of blowback and they all immediately run for cover.
(20:49):
I mean, it's kind of funny, but also like, what
did they think was going to happen when they announced this,
like the the absolute fear that immediate governs is really
just it's amusing but also absurd. Yeah, but you know,
you and I've talked about this, so we talked about
when it comes to the woke mob coming after people
and if you just if you just stand up to
(21:11):
it for thirty six hours, will be okay. I think
this was different. This was a bad business miscalculation. Now,
I don't know how much money they were set to
make from the Super League. It was in the billions easily,
but um, they saw huge backlash, not just from the
organizations that their their teams were prior members of, like
the Premier League or the Champions League. It's not from
their own fan bases. There's a single fan base that
(21:33):
was excited about this. They were all extremely mad. So
then the question is how do you see this coming?
Did you not do the due diligence on the research?
And I'll tell you claim I'm a big soccer fan.
They're blamed on America. I mean they're blaming it on
like John Henry who is Red Sox in Liverpool, Stan
Cronky whose Rams and u Stan Crowkey have over there
(21:54):
I can't rememove all. And there are a lot of
American billionaires that have the glazers. The glazers are the
bucks in the in Man United and they're used to
making a ton of money over here and not being
bound in tradition. Those soccer leagues have been in place
for over a hundred years over there, and so you
know they're they're saying, here comes to Americans with with
money in their eyes and greeding, no respect for what
(22:15):
we've had for tradition, and they're they're saying, while we
adopting their point of view. Stan Cronkey, according to dub
owns Arsenal, by the way, she'd con I think right,
the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars, I think has a
substantial ownership steak in the EPL as well, but didn't
get picked for the team, didn't. They weren't high enough
on the flow chart, by the way. Lebron James, another
American billionaire, has an ownership steak in Liverpool, which is
(22:38):
interesting in and of itself. All right, last question for you,
and we're talking to Will Kaine at Wilkaine on Twitter.
Appreciate him hanging out with us here on the Wednesday
edition of the show, as he often does. ESPN and
I'm I'm assuming you probably saw this had a story
from Adrian Wojnarowski about the NBA and how they were
going to respond to the eventual verdict in the Derek
Chauvin case. Uh And as part of that article they
(23:01):
reported it was up for four or five hours as
the lead story at ESPN dot com and on the
ESPN app that Jacob Blake, who who many people out
there will remember, was shot in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and the
Milwaukee Bucks and everybody else just walked off the court
and refused to play as a result of that. It
later comes out that Jacob Blake was armed with a knife,
(23:23):
that police had been called because he was threatening a
woman in the neighborhood who had previously been accused of
sexual assault against that he refused to comply with officer demands,
went to his car, reached in. They were worried that
he was getting another a weapon that he already had,
and that was when they shot. There were no charges
brought in that case. ESPN reported that he was unarmed
(23:45):
when he was shot, and they put that in the
article and it was up for hours. How do you
think an error like that happens? And how inexcusable given
the powder keg that we are living in right now?
Is an error of that nature in your mind by anyone,
be it a sports media outlet, or a national media outlet,
(24:05):
or even this radio program. I think the way that happens,
Clay is people just begin to accept the narrative as
the truth and not facts as the truth. So I
don't even know you know, the editor, do you do?
Do you know? I don't even know if they knew that,
And it's not you. You have to know. You have
to know that Jacob Blake was was armed. You have
(24:27):
to know because that's the facts, and the facts matter. Um.
But there's a chance I didn't even know, Clay because
the lie has been repeated so many times that he's unarmed, unarmed,
and and so many times, Clay, that becomes like a
catchphrase in your brain. Right you just assumed any interaction
that makes big, big public splash and conference, you assume
it fits the narrative and the cliche in your head
(24:49):
unarmed gout arms, when it doesn't the facts of each
individual case matter. I remember watching the Kentucky Derby, UM
and Mike Tarko referred to what happened with Brianna Taylor
as because there was protest outside of the the Kentucky Derby
whatever he's as possess over the over the murder of
Brianna Taylor. And I sat there to go, why is
that okay for him to say he doesn't know that
(25:09):
it was murder? Murder is a specific word with with
real meaning to it, right, and and she she got killed,
that's true. And then we have a we have an
investigation and a trial of whatnot it was manslaughter, murderer, accidental,
all of those things. But he spoke definitively before a
trial that that is what had happened. And that sloppiness
of language and and and the repeating of of I
(25:31):
think that's I think it's even unthinking. I don't think
it's his property. I don't know, man, I'm moving on this.
Is it propaganda intentionally misleading your audience, or is it,
you know, vacuous mindlessness repeating phrases that you hear over
and over. I used to think it's the you know,
the latter. I'm now beginning to wonder sometimes if it's
if it's not pure propaganda. I don't know, but it
(25:52):
is fascinating because what I think is true is that
sports and many other aspects of pop culture have been
taken over by politics. Right. And that's despite the fact
that everybody out there is basically letting it be known
they don't want it, right. That's the oscars are Sunday. Uh.
There was an interesting line that honestly, I thought should
have been the headline, and of course it was, yeah,
(26:14):
I haven't seen I can't haven't seen him any It's funny.
I was looking at the odds of what was gonna
be the best picture, and I was like, I don't
even know like anything about these movies, right. I mean,
they have moved from nominating movies that a lot of
people watched back in the day, like Titanic, whether you
love it or hate it, Lord of the Rings, um,
you know, big blockbuster movies that had massive appeal to
(26:34):
a large segment of the population, to now nominating movies
that almost no one sees. But the interesting nugget in
that article in the New York Times was uh, an
anonymous oscar producer said that they had gone back to
look at the minute by minute ratings, and the minute
that politics were mentioned by an actor or an actress,
the overall numbers of viewers plummets every single time. Yes,
(26:59):
they the exact data right, minute by minute. So and
so wins the oscar. They go up there and they
start talking politics. There are lots of people who like
the movies. There are lots of people who like sports.
But when you tune in and you want to watch,
you know, hey, let's watch a fun night about the movies.
And then some actor or actress wins and goes up
and starts lecturing you, people turn it off. And what's
(27:19):
interesting about this to me, Will is you're around my age.
When we were young, everybody rolled their eyes and made
fun of actors or actresses who got up on the
stage at the oscars and advocated for whatever politics they
believed in. We all rolled our eyes were like, these
guys have no idea what they're talking about. Now they
get praised. And I don't know if it's social media
(27:40):
that has caused that. I don't know if it's the
media in general just becoming so incredibly political, But we've
moved from eye rolling, which I think was the natural
inclination in the eighties and the nineties when actors and
actresses got political to now, Oh, it's so brave of
them to use their platform like this when the reality is,
I think people kind of have their own opinions made up.
(28:01):
They don't need actors or actress is telling them what
to think. Isn't it odd? Look, I've been I've been
interested in politics and in sports my entire life. Why
is is it odd that every aspect of our culture
now is inseparable from politics, And that's what they're doing
that I have this platform so I have to share
my own personal political opinions. It's just like there is
(28:22):
no separation in life at all. It's everything is political.
You can't name a section of our cultures now that
is truly free from politics. It's amazing too, because I'm
not active on social media, you know, as I am
as a public figure. But it's not like I sit
around like looking at Facebook from on a regular basis.
But every now and then I dive into my private
(28:44):
Facebook page and I see people that I went to
high school in college with, who I never heard have
any political opinion in their entire life, who are now
rapidly partisan all day long on social media. And I
think most people who never read that too. Yeah, most people.
Why I don't do face book like that. Yeah, I
don't do it either, but it's your Yeah, it's it's interesting.
(29:06):
I'm like, I've known you guys for you know, twenty
years in an individual basis, I've never heard you actually
ever utter a political opinion, And now suddenly, on social
media everything is flooded with politics, like whether you love
or hate my opinions. Most people who know me and
have known me for a long time would be like, yeah,
Clay has always been opinionated about X, Y or Z.
I haven't really changed. But now suddenly all these people
(29:28):
who didn't care at all are sharing responses to every
single issue in the country on a day to day
basis on their Facebook feeds. Like, I don't know, I'm
kind of curious to see kids, you know, people's kids.
I'm interested in, you know, like seeing how lives are going.
I didn't. Maybe it's weird. I don't really care what
anybody I went to high school with thinks about any
(29:48):
political issue now, because if they didn't tell me face
to face, why should I care what they think about
it on Facebook? I really quickly back to that unarmed
thing you asked Matt, and I said, I don't know
if it's propaganda, orf it's mindlessness. I'll tell you like
the story of the last day or so, that would
lead you to believe it's more propagandas you tell the
lie quickly, you tell it first, and you repeat it.
Benjamin Crump, by the way, who's the attorney for all
(30:09):
of these cases, like Jacob Blake, he knows that he
gets on the ground. He tells the lie first. He
was hands up, don't shoot. He's Jacob Blake's unarmed man
um that that is the cost of that was shown
because we now know Brian sick Nick. You know the
officer at Capel Hill was not bashed with a fire extinguishers.
That's not how he died. But for months that's all
(30:30):
you've been told. So he died of a stroke by
the way, natural causes. You know, the day after. This
is now official. But you asked anybody out there, the
lie has been told enough. He was bashed with fire extinguishers.
So tell the lie, tell it first, repeated over and over,
and that makes me believe it's propaganda. It's not. It's
not accident. Yeah, I mean, hands up, don't shoot is
a lie. It is a demonstrative lie. It doesn't and
(30:51):
tons of people out there still believe the Michael Brown
case hands Up, don't shoot was legit. It's not. It's
a lie. The fact that Jacob Blake was unarmed, it's
a lie. It's controvertibly false. He admitted himself he was
armed on tape with a with a knife like it's
These things don't penetrate into the consciousness, and people believe
(31:12):
a falsehoods very often of the time, and unfortunately that
ends up dividing us even more. Will Kaine fantastic as always.
We're watching this weekend. Appreciate the time, my man, Appreciate it.
This is outkicked the coverage with Clay's traffics. Hey, I'm
(31:34):
Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually
talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about
the stories about what made these people love their sport
and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talked
to coaches, we talked to players, We tell you stories.
You download it, you listen to it. I think you
like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on
(31:56):
the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or ever you
get your podcast Alright, so we have spent first of all, uh,
Danny g is going to be going through all of
your five star reviews. We've also got a whale of
an animal Thunderdome coming your direction. We've got such a
pack show, Uh, Chad w Row in the first hour,
(32:17):
Jeff Schwartz in the second hour, and we just finished
with Will Kine here in the third hour that I'm
gonna save the five star reviews and the animal Thunderdome
for later in the week. And I started off the
show talking about this, but let me just kind of
jump back into uh, the Derek Chauvin George Floyd trial
(32:37):
that was just completed and announced the verdict on yesterday. UM,
And my position, I'm putting my lawyer head on here
for you right now. My position is that in an
ideal world, right, ideal United States world, I should say,
but I think it's true for the world at large too.
But I know the United States judicial system because I'm
(32:59):
a license to turn in a couple of different jurisdictions
right now. In an ideal world, your race, your religion,
your ethnicity, your sexuality, whatever identity politics defines you it
won't matter in a court of law, because the goal
in every courtroom, lawyers, judges, and hopefully jurors too, is
(33:23):
to treat everyone the same and make decisions entirely based
on the three things that matter the most, the facts,
The facts, the facts. And I believe that our American
judicial system is far from perfect, but I also believe
it's the best in the world. And I also believe
(33:45):
that the evidence is quite clear that in each century
that America has been a country, our judicial system has
gotten better eighteen hundreds, nineteen hundreds, two thousands, late seventeen
nineties after the United States had become a country for
the first time and defeated the British, and now into
(34:06):
the twenty one century. A lot of people out there
are not optimists. I understand that it's easy to find
flaw with virtually everything that exists in the world and
try to tear it down. What I have tried to
do with the show consistently as we have had an
incredibly tumultuous year is fight for sports to exist, which
(34:28):
we fought harder for sports to exist on this program
than any program in all of the entire sports industry,
and we won and sports came back, and we've done
it safely. And I fight every single day on this
show to try to treat everybody the exact same. Now.
I understand that some people don't like that. Some people
believe that you should be treated differently. I don't. I
(34:52):
look at this as the only way the United States
can truly flourish going forward is if all of us
are treated the exact same, just like we do in sports.
And that is why I think sports is such an
important battleground in the country right now, because whether you're white, Black, Asian,
Hispanic boy, girl, gay, straight, rich or poor, when you
(35:16):
step between the lines in a sporting event, the goal
is for you to be treated the exact same as
everybody else competing. And I think sports is not perfect,
we know that, but I think sports does a pretty
good job of treating every single person the same. And
I think about that a lot now because I've aged
(35:36):
out of playing sports myself. But you know what I
did last night? I coached a little league baseball for
three hours, uh from five o'clock three and a half
hours actually, from five o'clock when I finished my television
show until eight thirty, three and a half hours I
was locked in coaching nine and ten year old kids, um,
(35:57):
and to me, sports gets much of our nation right.
The best man or the best woman wins. Ideally, you
compete within the rules, and all of the officials and
all the coaches and all the players know what the
rules are, and we try to apply them fairly. And
(36:20):
I believe that our judicial system tries to do the
same thing. And so I am an optimist. I believe
that over time, our judicial system is getting better. I
think we're better now than we were in the seventeen hundreds.
I think we're better now than we are in the
eighteen hundreds. I think we're better now than we were
in the nineteen hundreds, two thousand's uh. And I think
(36:41):
now that we're into the twenty one century, I believe
America is going to get better. I believe we are
going to triumph over our new foe. We're not going
to stop having challenges in this country. We're not going
to stop having difficult moments. We're not going to stop
having difficult conversations. But I believe at overtime, both sports
(37:02):
and America bend towards justice and righteousness and equality for all.
I really do believe it, and I think the story
of American history is a triumphant one because that has
been the truth throughout our decades and several hundred years
now as a country, and I hope that we can
come together and use sports as a unifying factor going
(37:25):
forward and not as a factor designed to divide people.
Certainly been a divisive past several years. I think sports
as best when a team scores, your team wins, and
you're in a stadium arena and you look around and
give a high five, and you don't think about the race, gender, religion,
or ethnicity of everybody around you. Sports at its best unifies,
(37:46):
it does not divide. We'll talk more, same bad time,
same bad channel. I am Clay Travis. I appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. This has been outkicked
on Fox Sports Radio. Be sure to catch live editions
of Outkicked the Coverage with Clay Travis we days at
six am Eastern three am Pacific
Outkicked the Coverage with Clay Travis Live every weekday morning
from six to nine a m. E Stern three to
six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for Outkicked the Coverage at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every morning on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs are you're listening to Fox
(00:23):
Sports Radio. I talked about this to start the show,
but we got a verdict in the Derek Chauvin case.
This is something that would have likely impacted sports in
a big way if the verdict had not been guilty
of all of the counts there. Um. And I've talked
(00:43):
about this in the first hour. I did not watch
this trial in earnest right, um, And so I'm not
going to put my lawyer hat on and analyze the
individual aspects of the case because I did not watch
the pros acution entirely. I did not watch the defense
attorneys entirely. I did not follow this case in a
(01:06):
in a really vigorous or rigorous fashion. And so I
think it's unfair if you don't watch everything to come
on and have some strong opinion about exactly what was
said in the courtroom. This is me speaking as a lawyer,
not as a person who is out there just watching
the trial. But I will say this, and I think
it's important to say this right off the top. The
(01:28):
goal of the American judicial system, and I think I
speak for many lawyers out there, hopefully almost all lawyers
out there, is for the American judicial system to treat
everyone the exact same, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, uh sexuality,
any identifying characteristic that often gets becomes a major flashpoint
in today's identity politics laden era. And I believe that
(01:53):
we are every single day becoming more likely to do that.
And I understand that there are a lot of people
out there obsessed on social media and they want to
tell you that the American judicial system can't be trusted,
and that juries can't be trusted, and the judges can't
be trusted, and the lawyers can be trusted. And I'm
here to tell you that the reason why the American
(02:14):
judicial system is the envy of the entire world is
not because we're perfect, because we're not, because we are
created by man and anything that's created by man is
going to be imperfect, but because we are consistently striving
to get better the American judicial system is better now
than it was in the eighteen hundreds. It's better now
than it was in the nineteen hundreds. I believe that
(02:35):
the American judicial system is getting better at treating everybody
the same, regardless of their background, which should be the
goal of the American judicial system. And so, without diving
into all the particulars of the Derek Chouven case, I
do believe that the history of the American judicial system
(02:57):
bends towards justice and bends towards right, just nous, regardless
of your race, your gender, your ethnicity, your religion. Some
people disagree with that. As a lawyer, I believe that
I have seen the court system and how it works,
and uh, I believe that that is the case. I
am optimistic on the future of the American judicial system,
not pessimistic, all right. Putting that aside much less serious news,
(03:22):
and we have been focusing most of the show on
much less serious news, I wanted to hit you with
this fact as we finished off the second hour of
the program, I was talking about wide receivers and the
difference between a first and a second round wide receiver. UH.
In the larger universe of of the NFL Draft, and
(03:42):
basically we've reached the era at least over the last
five years. We have two thousand, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,
and nineteen drafts. Six years, which would you pick? These
are the best first round wide receivers. Calvin Ridley, d J. Moore,
Mike Evans, A Mari coup for Corey Davis, Brandon Cooks,
(04:02):
Marquis Brown, Odell Beckham Jr. Those are roughly the eight
best wide receivers drafted in the first round. About second
round Davante Adams, A. J. Brown, DK Metcalf, Michael Thomas,
Allen Robinson, Deebo Samuel, Juju Smith, Schuster, Jarvis Landry. I
don't know about you. I'd rather have the second round
(04:23):
wide receivers over the last uh six years of the
draft at wide receiver than I would the first rounders.
Is that going to be the case this year? I
don't know, but I think it's something worth keeping in
the back of your mind. Jamaar Chase, Davante Smith, and
Jalen Waddle seemed to be considered to be on a
completely different level than every other wide receiver in the NFL,
(04:45):
but historically over the last five six years, you've been
just as good trading back and taking wide receivers later
in the second round than you have been taking them
right off the top in the first round. All right, Uh,
we're gonna be joined now out. I believe we've got
him ubed, we have him well, we got a ton
to get into. But I want to start here with
(05:06):
you this Deshaun Watson defense. Um, you are a Texas
trained lawyer. You're familiar with Rusty Harden, Tony Buzby, but
even more than that, like the larger than life personas
that some of these Texas lawyers can adopt. I think
it's fair to say that both of these guys fit
that perspective. I I am just stunned that Deshaun Watson's
(05:32):
defense seems to be in this case that twenty two
different women are lying and he didn't do anything remotely inappropriate.
Are you kind of stunned that he's paying and he's
basically calling these women liars? Not basically he is, which,
as you well know, it makes it even harder to
maybe one day settle this case because some of these
(05:55):
women and their families are gonna say, wait a minute,
why would we take money from Deshaun Watson after he
called us liars. Like this thing just keeps getting ratcheted up,
it seems like to another level every single week. Yes,
that certainly poisons the waters for any potential settlement. But
I've been thinking about this clay, and they're boxed in there,
(06:15):
in there, rocked in a hard place. I mean, you're
a Tennessee trained lawyer. I don't know what defense at
this point, Rusty Harden, Deshaun Watson can put together twenty
two different women making accusations. That's a bear. I mean,
this is the kind of thing that you normally see
quietly or as quietly as possible, settled as quickly as possible.
(06:37):
That's what usually happens if you have something like this.
I don't know what his defense could be to go
through and make a factual claim on each and every
one of these women in each and every one of
these incidents. Is that he can say he was on
the right side of each of these interactions. I don't
know how he does. He is literally boxed in, and
I think he has to settle it and make you
go away. I agree, which makes saying there why years
(07:00):
makes the settlement that much more difficult. And also it
seems like it prolongs it in many ways because everything
that they're doing is making the environment more antagonistic instead
of trying to either stay quiet and uh and I
do think that they tried to stay quiet initially, but
then the number of women, I think they were stunned
(07:21):
by them. I also think Will, and I'm not sure
if you've thought a lot about this. You know, when
you are young and wealthy, there are a lot of
people that will surround you, particularly in the world of athletics,
and tell you their yes men right there, hype men.
We've seen it throughout the history of athletics. Uh, They're
very few truth tellers. And I wonder the more and
(07:43):
more I read about this case, Deshaun Watson, it seems
to me got really bad advice. Will. The first woman
who came public wanted a hundred thousand dollars. That means
they probably could have settled it for fifty kh or
seventy k or so. That's literally something that, given to
on Watson's income, he would not even have known happened.
(08:04):
And yet they decided to fight it, which is how
this blew up. Even if they had not thought it
was a legitimate claim. The hit to Deshaun Watson's reputation
from a lawsuit like this being filed presuming that he
had in fact gotten a massage from her is worth
more than a hundred thousand dollars, and it's very difficult
to prove even in a case of he said, she
(08:25):
said that, somebody's a percent not telling the truth. I
just think Deshaun Watson's advisers, his lawyers, early on his agent,
I think they all maybe we're afraid to sit him
down and explain where this was headed where now his
career is legitimately being threatened in many ways, so that
(08:45):
advice on three different fronts, and I can think of
they're probably suffering from whiplash. So to your point, in
the beginning, it was probably a consideration of this is
not that big a deal. This will go away. You
don't pay this person, you didn't do anything wrong, and
that's why he didn't settle. Now he's probably the other direction,
worried that if he does settle, if he does go
(09:07):
about trying to make this go away, twenty two turns
into forty two, that you know, if he if it
appears as though he's out there a many wrongdoing and
and and giving financial settlements all of a sudden, the
number of masseuses that have claims doubles and triples, because
he clearly wasn't very He didn't have a lot of discretion.
He was very flagrant about this allegedly. If we've got
(09:28):
this many number of people doing so, and then and
in the last piece of bad advice you got is
to your point of you never hear no when you're
famous like this, he clearly lost sight again allegedly. I mean,
I want to emphasize that over and over, and I
know you appreciate that as well. I'm not I'm not
the fact finder in this. I'm not the jury. But um,
he clearly wasn't ever told you know, if this is true, hey,
(09:51):
this is over the line. You need to be careful
or to extend to anyone new right And if you've
been doing this, you know you need to shut this down.
And I think at some point Clay early in this process,
he was under the impression this isn't that big of
a deal, and he had to have people around him
telling him it's not that big of a deal, which
is a lack of self awareness, a lack of the
client and a clear lack of right wrong. If it's true,
(10:14):
don't you also think that if you're advising this guy,
it should be hard for him to have a hundred
different masseuses. Like, one of the first conversations you need
to have in this situation with Deshaun Watson is Okay, man,
she says that she was your private masseus. I mean,
I think this is one of the first questions I
would have asked anyway, if I were representing him, how
many private masseuses have you had? Right? And if he
(10:37):
said a hundred. Yeah, if he said a hundred, I'd
be like, oh, because the reason why I'm bringing that
up is, you know, then how many other women could
come forward with a similar claim? Right? The single most
important question to me is, look, if Deshaun Watson says, man,
you know what, I probably have have had three different
(10:57):
women who have given me massages in my entire you know,
career as a Houston Texan, I would be like, Okay,
I don't think there's a lot we need to be
worried about here, right, because three different women, that's a
reasonable number. If he says a hundred, and my next
question would have been a hundred. The next question I
think a lot of people out there listening also would
have been, Okay, how are you meeting all these women?
(11:20):
And he was like, well, I was sending them direct
messages on Instagram. I'd be like, oh so, so. I
wonder on some level whether they had, you know, sort
of the lawyer come to Jesus meeting with Deshaun Watson
when this allegation was made, because knowing what liability is
out there is a big part of whether or not
you might decide to privately get this deal taken care of.
(11:44):
And given how much money Deshaun Watson has at stake
and how young in his career, it is like having
somebody tell him, hey, this is not a good situation.
You can't put yourself out there again and again, you
can't do this anymore, would have maybe on a long
way towards reconciling and solving this situation and keeping it
from blowing up in a huge way in a public fashion.
(12:07):
And that's my point. In the beginning, he was acting
like they were acting like this could only be one
or two alegants. That's right, But now I think their
behavior suggests it is potentially a hundred you know now
that you won't make it go away. I think their
fear is how big is it? Because because if you
settle with twenty two, you don't protect yourself from three
(12:28):
through sixty, you know. And by the way, he doesn't
know what the number is. And maybe he's never been
able to communication that there was a story and I
read the stories that he had reached out to the
same asseuse twice. You know, there was a bat to
even recognize that he had had contact with whatever before
exactly he reapproached her and she's like, yes, but it
can't be like last time, and he was like then
(12:49):
he went radio silent, like he didn't know he'd already
had a massage from this person. Yeah, that's not that's
again goes to the overall numbers that might be involved.
And by the way, I don't know what, Like I
understand the legal angle that Tony Buzzby, the PLANEFFS lawyer
is following here, Like it's logical to me and you
know as well as anybody who's also practiced, like you
(13:10):
don't get to choose the decisions that your clients make,
and they can put you in a really difficult spot.
But I still haven't heard any sort of legal angle
argument from Rusty Harden where I've been like, oh, you
know what, I can see that, like Rusty Harton's seemed
to trot out. You saw this too, like, hey, the
reason why you had so many masseuses was because COVID
(13:30):
was going on. And You're like, wait, that would actually
that's the exact opposite, Like that would make you want
to have as few as possible, right, And then he's like, well,
he might have had as many as a hundred and
fifty massages last year, and I'm like, a hundred hundred
and every other day he got a massage, Like these
are all bad facts. It doesn't seem to me that
they have hit on a factual argument where you're like, okay,
(13:53):
I could see that, because, as you well know, the
way that people respond to cases is is this a
believeable story or not? Right, Like, oh, I could see that.
That seems like something reasonable, And that's oftentimes how juries
make choices, because we all in our lives kind of
have a sense for what's reasonable and what's not reasonable,
(14:14):
and that often dictates who we believe and who we
don't believe. Not only that by the way, will His
other defense was, well, yeah, these twenty two women say
they were sexually assaulted, but here's eighteen other masseuses who
say that Deshaun Watson didn't do anything to them, which
you know, as a legal defense. First of all, it
just admits how many different masseuses you had. But also
(14:36):
it's a little bit like somebody coming out and saying, well,
he couldn't have committed murder because look at all these
other people he didn't kill. Well, you as well as
everybody out there, knows that most people engaging in criminal
conduct don't do it every day, all day long to
everyone that they are around, and jury would never buy like, hey,
(14:56):
what's your murder defense for this guy? Well, I'm just
gonna put twenty five guys who knew him that he
didn't kill. You wouldn't be like, oh, this proves that
he didn't kill that other person, or that he didn't
rob a bank or whatever it is. And so I
just I don't know, Like Rusty Harden seems to me
like he is not helping his client in any way
because his arguments all have either flaws that are pretty
(15:19):
a gargantuan or actually served to undercut his client even more. Yeah,
I think I said this one time in the past
when we spoke, But I'm sure there are plenty of
women out there who had perfectly non violent interactions with
O J. Simpson. That does us a lot about what
happened with Nicole Brown Simpson. That's right, that's right. And
by the way, o J had his video up. I
saw this Wednesday discussing the show then trial and hoping
(15:43):
that the jury would reach the right verdict, which is
so off the wall, unbelievably, absurdly ironic. I don't even
know what to say. Um. All right, So a couple
of other big stories that are out here. I think
this is Masson. We're talking to wil Kaine. You can
watch him on Fox and Friends six to ten am
Eastern on Saturday and Sunday. Also has got a podcast.
You can search out that podcast. All these different NBA
(16:04):
players have deals with two different Chinese companies. Uh, and
among them Dwyane Wade obviously I know who's retired, but um,
a lot of top players, Clay Thompson, D'Angelo Russell, uh,
the Jimmy Butler. The list is pretty wrong long. And
we wrote about that it's also wrong. As I was
(16:25):
about to say, um, but all these NBA players are
out there saying, hey, we care about social justice, we
stand for important things in this country. Chinese sneaker companies
will and it blows my mind. This is the case.
Nike came out and said, hey, we're not going to
use cotton produced by slave labor from Muslim concentration camps
(16:47):
in China, and Nike, to their credit, that's obviously the
right side of of history, so to speak. They got
crushed in China, and these two Chinese sneaker companies came
out and said not that they were going to cease
using and said we are intentionally going to use slave
labor cotton in our shoes. How dare you say something
(17:10):
bad about the Chinese government and the NBA and all
these players are making millions of dollars off of these
sneaker deals that are truly being produced with slave labor,
and almost no one in the media is asking them questions.
Almost no one in the media is even raising it
as a worthy topic of discussion. Why do you think
(17:32):
that is? And how absurdly hypocritical is it for NBA
players to literally be playing in basketball games in slave
labor produced sneakers. Okay, I'll answer those in reverse order. Um,
how absurdly hypocritical is it? It is? It is insanely hypocritical. Um. Now,
I know what they would argue back to you. I
(17:53):
know most of the people in defense of the NBA
players would say. They would say, look, their primary, their
prim very objective of their primary priority in life is
to help social justice in the United States of America.
And they can't go around the world trying to solve
all of the world social justice issues. Handle the ones
in your own backyard. And for NBA players, at the
top of that party list are issues concerning African Americans.
(18:16):
That's what they would say, right, And that's how they
would justify to themselves as well. And that's fine. All
that means is you're you're not particularly you're not making
a particularly principled stand. You're not truthfully you know all
about the is you care about social justice when it
either helps you or helps your paycheck? Right? What I
(18:38):
want to get to the first part the first party
is that we're being charitable. Then they first have to
admit you only care about social justice when it impacts
you or your direct community. And that's but then we
get to the more hypocritical part of this is, but
you're taking you're not just picking and choosing which of
these battles to fight. You're not just doing that. You're
not ignoring what's happening in the Middle East. Right, It's
not simply that you're actually taking money in doing business
(19:02):
deals with the people violating those exact principles you say
that you are fighting for. Even though it's somewhere else
and far away, you're now willing to participant in those
exact same crimes. You're taking money. And so that's where
it gets to the height of absurdity. And it's not
just good enough to say, well, it's not in my backyard,
and I have priorities of things that occur in my backyards.
By the way, there's also scale. There's nothing in the
(19:23):
United States that they're fighting for in the social justice front.
It's even close to slave labor. So we can also
just point out the absurdity on scale here, you know. Um,
But then your second question was why isn't the media
do with just question about it, just hold them accountable
for this perspective, which is supposedly the job of the
media right, because they're in bed with stars, because star
(19:44):
access is the most important thing in this business. It's
absolutely friendly. Relationships with stars is the most important thing
in the NBA. That's the bottom line, you know. And
and so you go along to get along. And plus
probably these NBA writers also, it's far away it They're like,
it's far away, it's in China. It doesn't it doesn't
it drive, doesn't drive clicks, it doesn't drive virtue. It
(20:05):
doesn't make me popular with any audience. Don't do anything
for me, opsite makes me unpopular. We're gonna bring Will
back for another segment here in a moment. This is
outkicked the coverage with Clay Travis well Kine still hanging
out with us. The Super League in uh in Europe.
(20:28):
We talked about this on the show. We drafted our
super League of college football teams. We had a lot
of fun with it. It almost immediately is like these
guys spend months trying to figure out a way to
announce the super League and then the minute it gets announced,
there's tons of blowback and they all immediately run for cover.
(20:49):
I mean, it's kind of funny, but also like, what
did they think was going to happen when they announced this,
like the the absolute fear that immediate governs is really
just it's amusing but also absurd. Yeah, but you know,
you and I've talked about this, so we talked about
when it comes to the woke mob coming after people
and if you just if you just stand up to
(21:11):
it for thirty six hours, will be okay. I think
this was different. This was a bad business miscalculation. Now,
I don't know how much money they were set to
make from the Super League. It was in the billions easily,
but um, they saw huge backlash, not just from the
organizations that their their teams were prior members of, like
the Premier League or the Champions League. It's not from
their own fan bases. There's a single fan base that
(21:33):
was excited about this. They were all extremely mad. So
then the question is how do you see this coming?
Did you not do the due diligence on the research?
And I'll tell you claim I'm a big soccer fan.
They're blamed on America. I mean they're blaming it on
like John Henry who is Red Sox in Liverpool, Stan
Cronky whose Rams and u Stan Crowkey have over there
(21:54):
I can't rememove all. And there are a lot of
American billionaires that have the glazers. The glazers are the
bucks in the in Man United and they're used to
making a ton of money over here and not being
bound in tradition. Those soccer leagues have been in place
for over a hundred years over there, and so you
know they're they're saying, here comes to Americans with with
money in their eyes and greeding, no respect for what
(22:15):
we've had for tradition, and they're they're saying, while we
adopting their point of view. Stan Cronkey, according to dub
owns Arsenal, by the way, she'd con I think right,
the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars, I think has a
substantial ownership steak in the EPL as well, but didn't
get picked for the team, didn't. They weren't high enough
on the flow chart, by the way. Lebron James, another
American billionaire, has an ownership steak in Liverpool, which is
(22:38):
interesting in and of itself. All right, last question for you,
and we're talking to Will Kaine at Wilkaine on Twitter.
Appreciate him hanging out with us here on the Wednesday
edition of the show, as he often does. ESPN and
I'm I'm assuming you probably saw this had a story
from Adrian Wojnarowski about the NBA and how they were
going to respond to the eventual verdict in the Derek
Chauvin case. Uh And as part of that article they
(23:01):
reported it was up for four or five hours as
the lead story at ESPN dot com and on the
ESPN app that Jacob Blake, who who many people out
there will remember, was shot in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and the
Milwaukee Bucks and everybody else just walked off the court
and refused to play as a result of that. It
later comes out that Jacob Blake was armed with a knife,
(23:23):
that police had been called because he was threatening a
woman in the neighborhood who had previously been accused of
sexual assault against that he refused to comply with officer demands,
went to his car, reached in. They were worried that
he was getting another a weapon that he already had,
and that was when they shot. There were no charges
brought in that case. ESPN reported that he was unarmed
(23:45):
when he was shot, and they put that in the
article and it was up for hours. How do you
think an error like that happens? And how inexcusable given
the powder keg that we are living in right now?
Is an error of that nature in your mind by anyone,
be it a sports media outlet, or a national media outlet,
(24:05):
or even this radio program. I think the way that happens,
Clay is people just begin to accept the narrative as
the truth and not facts as the truth. So I
don't even know you know, the editor, do you do?
Do you know? I don't even know if they knew that,
And it's not you. You have to know. You have
to know that Jacob Blake was was armed. You have
(24:27):
to know because that's the facts, and the facts matter. Um.
But there's a chance I didn't even know, Clay because
the lie has been repeated so many times that he's unarmed, unarmed,
and and so many times, Clay, that becomes like a
catchphrase in your brain. Right you just assumed any interaction
that makes big, big public splash and conference, you assume
it fits the narrative and the cliche in your head
(24:49):
unarmed gout arms, when it doesn't the facts of each
individual case matter. I remember watching the Kentucky Derby, UM
and Mike Tarko referred to what happened with Brianna Taylor
as because there was protest outside of the the Kentucky Derby
whatever he's as possess over the over the murder of
Brianna Taylor. And I sat there to go, why is
that okay for him to say he doesn't know that
(25:09):
it was murder? Murder is a specific word with with
real meaning to it, right, and and she she got killed,
that's true. And then we have a we have an
investigation and a trial of whatnot it was manslaughter, murderer, accidental,
all of those things. But he spoke definitively before a
trial that that is what had happened. And that sloppiness
of language and and and the repeating of of I
(25:31):
think that's I think it's even unthinking. I don't think
it's his property. I don't know, man, I'm moving on this.
Is it propaganda intentionally misleading your audience, or is it,
you know, vacuous mindlessness repeating phrases that you hear over
and over. I used to think it's the you know,
the latter. I'm now beginning to wonder sometimes if it's
if it's not pure propaganda. I don't know, but it
(25:52):
is fascinating because what I think is true is that
sports and many other aspects of pop culture have been
taken over by politics. Right. And that's despite the fact
that everybody out there is basically letting it be known
they don't want it, right. That's the oscars are Sunday. Uh.
There was an interesting line that honestly, I thought should
have been the headline, and of course it was, yeah,
(26:14):
I haven't seen I can't haven't seen him any It's funny.
I was looking at the odds of what was gonna
be the best picture, and I was like, I don't
even know like anything about these movies, right. I mean,
they have moved from nominating movies that a lot of
people watched back in the day, like Titanic, whether you
love it or hate it, Lord of the Rings, um,
you know, big blockbuster movies that had massive appeal to
(26:34):
a large segment of the population, to now nominating movies
that almost no one sees. But the interesting nugget in
that article in the New York Times was uh, an
anonymous oscar producer said that they had gone back to
look at the minute by minute ratings, and the minute
that politics were mentioned by an actor or an actress,
the overall numbers of viewers plummets every single time. Yes,
(26:59):
they the exact data right, minute by minute. So and
so wins the oscar. They go up there and they
start talking politics. There are lots of people who like
the movies. There are lots of people who like sports.
But when you tune in and you want to watch,
you know, hey, let's watch a fun night about the movies.
And then some actor or actress wins and goes up
and starts lecturing you, people turn it off. And what's
(27:19):
interesting about this to me, Will is you're around my age.
When we were young, everybody rolled their eyes and made
fun of actors or actresses who got up on the
stage at the oscars and advocated for whatever politics they
believed in. We all rolled our eyes were like, these
guys have no idea what they're talking about. Now they
get praised. And I don't know if it's social media
(27:40):
that has caused that. I don't know if it's the
media in general just becoming so incredibly political, But we've
moved from eye rolling, which I think was the natural
inclination in the eighties and the nineties when actors and
actresses got political to now, Oh, it's so brave of
them to use their platform like this when the reality is,
I think people kind of have their own opinions made up.
(28:01):
They don't need actors or actress is telling them what
to think. Isn't it odd? Look, I've been I've been
interested in politics and in sports my entire life. Why
is is it odd that every aspect of our culture
now is inseparable from politics, And that's what they're doing
that I have this platform so I have to share
my own personal political opinions. It's just like there is
(28:22):
no separation in life at all. It's everything is political.
You can't name a section of our cultures now that
is truly free from politics. It's amazing too, because I'm
not active on social media, you know, as I am
as a public figure. But it's not like I sit
around like looking at Facebook from on a regular basis.
But every now and then I dive into my private
(28:44):
Facebook page and I see people that I went to
high school in college with, who I never heard have
any political opinion in their entire life, who are now
rapidly partisan all day long on social media. And I
think most people who never read that too. Yeah, most people.
Why I don't do face book like that. Yeah, I
don't do it either, but it's your Yeah, it's it's interesting.
(29:06):
I'm like, I've known you guys for you know, twenty
years in an individual basis, I've never heard you actually
ever utter a political opinion, And now suddenly, on social
media everything is flooded with politics, like whether you love
or hate my opinions. Most people who know me and
have known me for a long time would be like, yeah,
Clay has always been opinionated about X, Y or Z.
I haven't really changed. But now suddenly all these people
(29:28):
who didn't care at all are sharing responses to every
single issue in the country on a day to day
basis on their Facebook feeds. Like, I don't know, I'm
kind of curious to see kids, you know, people's kids.
I'm interested in, you know, like seeing how lives are going.
I didn't. Maybe it's weird. I don't really care what
anybody I went to high school with thinks about any
(29:48):
political issue now, because if they didn't tell me face
to face, why should I care what they think about
it on Facebook? I really quickly back to that unarmed
thing you asked Matt, and I said, I don't know
if it's propaganda, orf it's mindlessness. I'll tell you like
the story of the last day or so, that would
lead you to believe it's more propagandas you tell the
lie quickly, you tell it first, and you repeat it.
Benjamin Crump, by the way, who's the attorney for all
(30:09):
of these cases, like Jacob Blake, he knows that he
gets on the ground. He tells the lie first. He
was hands up, don't shoot. He's Jacob Blake's unarmed man
um that that is the cost of that was shown
because we now know Brian sick Nick. You know the
officer at Capel Hill was not bashed with a fire extinguishers.
That's not how he died. But for months that's all
(30:30):
you've been told. So he died of a stroke by
the way, natural causes. You know, the day after. This
is now official. But you asked anybody out there, the
lie has been told enough. He was bashed with fire extinguishers.
So tell the lie, tell it first, repeated over and over,
and that makes me believe it's propaganda. It's not. It's
not accident. Yeah, I mean, hands up, don't shoot is
a lie. It is a demonstrative lie. It doesn't and
(30:51):
tons of people out there still believe the Michael Brown
case hands Up, don't shoot was legit. It's not. It's
a lie. The fact that Jacob Blake was unarmed, it's
a lie. It's controvertibly false. He admitted himself he was
armed on tape with a with a knife like it's
These things don't penetrate into the consciousness, and people believe
(31:12):
a falsehoods very often of the time, and unfortunately that
ends up dividing us even more. Will Kaine fantastic as always.
We're watching this weekend. Appreciate the time, my man, Appreciate it.
This is outkicked the coverage with Clay's traffics. Hey, I'm
(31:34):
Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually
talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about
the stories about what made these people love their sport
and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talked
to coaches, we talked to players, We tell you stories.
You download it, you listen to it. I think you
like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on
(31:56):
the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or ever you
get your podcast Alright, so we have spent first of all, uh,
Danny g is going to be going through all of
your five star reviews. We've also got a whale of
an animal Thunderdome coming your direction. We've got such a
pack show, Uh, Chad w Row in the first hour,
(32:17):
Jeff Schwartz in the second hour, and we just finished
with Will Kine here in the third hour that I'm
gonna save the five star reviews and the animal Thunderdome
for later in the week. And I started off the
show talking about this, but let me just kind of
jump back into uh, the Derek Chauvin George Floyd trial
(32:37):
that was just completed and announced the verdict on yesterday. UM,
And my position, I'm putting my lawyer head on here
for you right now. My position is that in an
ideal world, right, ideal United States world, I should say,
but I think it's true for the world at large too.
But I know the United States judicial system because I'm
(32:59):
a license to turn in a couple of different jurisdictions
right now. In an ideal world, your race, your religion,
your ethnicity, your sexuality, whatever identity politics defines you it
won't matter in a court of law, because the goal
in every courtroom, lawyers, judges, and hopefully jurors too, is
(33:23):
to treat everyone the same and make decisions entirely based
on the three things that matter the most, the facts,
The facts, the facts. And I believe that our American
judicial system is far from perfect, but I also believe
it's the best in the world. And I also believe
(33:45):
that the evidence is quite clear that in each century
that America has been a country, our judicial system has
gotten better eighteen hundreds, nineteen hundreds, two thousands, late seventeen
nineties after the United States had become a country for
the first time and defeated the British, and now into
(34:06):
the twenty one century. A lot of people out there
are not optimists. I understand that it's easy to find
flaw with virtually everything that exists in the world and
try to tear it down. What I have tried to
do with the show consistently as we have had an
incredibly tumultuous year is fight for sports to exist, which
(34:28):
we fought harder for sports to exist on this program
than any program in all of the entire sports industry,
and we won and sports came back, and we've done
it safely. And I fight every single day on this
show to try to treat everybody the exact same. Now.
I understand that some people don't like that. Some people
believe that you should be treated differently. I don't. I
(34:52):
look at this as the only way the United States
can truly flourish going forward is if all of us
are treated the exact same, just like we do in sports.
And that is why I think sports is such an
important battleground in the country right now, because whether you're white, Black, Asian,
Hispanic boy, girl, gay, straight, rich or poor, when you
(35:16):
step between the lines in a sporting event, the goal
is for you to be treated the exact same as
everybody else competing. And I think sports is not perfect,
we know that, but I think sports does a pretty
good job of treating every single person the same. And
I think about that a lot now because I've aged
(35:36):
out of playing sports myself. But you know what I
did last night? I coached a little league baseball for
three hours, uh from five o'clock three and a half
hours actually, from five o'clock when I finished my television
show until eight thirty, three and a half hours I
was locked in coaching nine and ten year old kids, um,
(35:57):
and to me, sports gets much of our nation right.
The best man or the best woman wins. Ideally, you
compete within the rules, and all of the officials and
all the coaches and all the players know what the
rules are, and we try to apply them fairly. And
(36:20):
I believe that our judicial system tries to do the
same thing. And so I am an optimist. I believe
that over time, our judicial system is getting better. I
think we're better now than we were in the seventeen hundreds.
I think we're better now than we are in the
eighteen hundreds. I think we're better now than we were
in the nineteen hundreds, two thousand's uh. And I think
(36:41):
now that we're into the twenty one century, I believe
America is going to get better. I believe we are
going to triumph over our new foe. We're not going
to stop having challenges in this country. We're not going
to stop having difficult moments. We're not going to stop
having difficult conversations. But I believe at overtime, both sports
(37:02):
and America bend towards justice and righteousness and equality for all.
I really do believe it, and I think the story
of American history is a triumphant one because that has
been the truth throughout our decades and several hundred years
now as a country, and I hope that we can
come together and use sports as a unifying factor going
(37:25):
forward and not as a factor designed to divide people.
Certainly been a divisive past several years. I think sports
as best when a team scores, your team wins, and
you're in a stadium arena and you look around and
give a high five, and you don't think about the race, gender, religion,
or ethnicity of everybody around you. Sports at its best unifies,
(37:46):
it does not divide. We'll talk more, same bad time,
same bad channel. I am Clay Travis. I appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. This has been outkicked
on Fox Sports Radio. Be sure to catch live editions
of Outkicked the Coverage with Clay Travis we days at
six am Eastern three am Pacific
Hosts And Creators
Brady Quinn
LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.