July 3, 2020 • 45 mins
Subscribe directly to the Fifth Hour podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fifth-hour-with-ben-maller/id1478163837. Sports, social issues, and politics continue to overlap in 2020. With the current climate being volatile, Ben and David decided to pass an invitation to Leo Terrell. A civil rights attorney and product of Los Angeles, Leo stops by the studio for first the first time ever to provide insight and knowledge on today's environment. Leo's strong stance is gear toward some of the most prominent names across the sports landscape and it includes, Drew Brees, LeBron James, and Colin Kaepernick.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Get right to the romance and find the way to
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(00:21):
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the old Republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He treats
(00:43):
crackheads in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich
pill poppers in the penthouse. Wow. The Clearinghouse of Hot
takes break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with
Ben Maller starts right now. That it does, and we
are in the air everywhere the vast power of podcasting,
(01:04):
the global reach of the iHeart podcast network, and we
thank you for downloading and subscribing to this particular podcast,
a spinoff of the radio show The Overnight Show, The
Ben Mallers Show on Fox Sports Radio. This a standalone
show as a spinoff, And we are here now eight
days a week, because four hours are clearly not enough,
(01:28):
and joined yet again by David Gascon for better or worse,
he is right over there standing. I don't know if
this could be like a standing eight count, Ben, but
welcome to the month of July, and we are bearing
for another month of the coronavirus. And I guess we
(01:49):
what we do? We're dipping our toes back in the
deep end of the pool today. Well, I've got my
tap dance shoes on because we are gonna go do
a little tap dance on the third rail. My man,
it's the third rail. So I'm gonna warn you right
now if you are triggered by political conversation and related
to sports, this is probably not the podcast for you. Okay.
(02:09):
If you don't want to hear that, I understand. Not
everyone wants to hear that. I know a lot of
people tell me they listen to the show to get
away from that. I get it. I completely understand. But
if you're into it and you're you want to hear
some interesting opinions. I am very excited about this an
interview podcast. You probably know that from looking at it.
And we are going to be joined here in a
couple of minutes by the great Leo Terrell. Now Leo
(02:32):
Terrell and I have had a similar radio because now
he's had more cool stuff happened in his life. He's
an attorney. You know, he's actually lived a life. I've
just been in radio. But Leo a very successful civil
rights attorney. Fact, he calls himself the fair minded civil
rights attorney. And he was a teacher and he's had
a lot of interesting things that he's done in his life,
(02:56):
and he's done very well in education and whatnot. And
he starts started at KABC in Los Angeles around the
time I started at the mighty six ninety in San Diego,
which is our We learned from hacks Off when when
he was on a few while back that it's you know,
seventy seven thousand watch it was really an LA station
(03:16):
slash you know, San Diego slash LAU six night. But anyway,
so we we've kind of been on the radio at
the same time. Here I've appreciated from Afar Leo's work.
I love good radio. I'm a radio nerd. I love
people that do radio well. I I you know, guess
on my pet peeve is when people do layup line
radio and you know Mount Rushmore and he just don't
(03:37):
put any effort into it. I never got that sense
from Leo when I've listened to him over the years.
He's always been prepared. He's got passionate opinions, and that
to me, that's the most entertaining thing to listen to.
That's what I look forward to listening to when I
tune into a radio show. Yeah, it's it's fascinating because
you know how he connected. He actually has known my
dad for decades. And two things that you know, the
(04:00):
chief had told me was he said something about Leo
that you need to know is that one he listens
and two he cares. And as the first things that
popped up to me, obviously, if you're gonna be if
you're gonna be dynamic and radio, you've got to be
able to do those two things because unlike sports, where
you can, like you said, mail and it at times
and do box score, radio politics and social issues no chance. Yeah,
(04:22):
you can't. You can't do it, You'll be called out
and Leo's I feel like he's getting more and more popular.
Is his reach, his footprint is getting bigger and bigger.
I know he's a contributor at Fox News, He's done
some other TV stuff sporadically, but I feel like this
last couple of weeks he's really been at the forefront
a lot of these issues that we talk about because
(04:43):
they're loosely related to sports. Yeah, but I think one
of the main reasons outside of what he's doing in
terms of content is if you'd noticed Ben, he has
a Lavalier microphone and he has a wonderful backdrop in
his studio. I think that you're encouraging Wait wait, wait,
I got I got a I'm looking behind me here.
(05:03):
I got a beautiful blue background with the Fox Sports
Radio logo and my logo. Although I didn't notice the
way the people at the company made the logo not
to go down a rabbit hole here is they made
the logos. Where I sit, you can pretty much only
see the Fox Sports Radio logo and not the Ben
Maller Show logo. I find somebody pointed that out to
(05:26):
me and said you know, you can't really see your logo.
You can only see the Fox Sports radiogo and I'm like, no, no,
my logos there. It's just my head is covering it up.
And so but anyway, and before we get into leo here,
I didn't want to promote us because it's all about us.
This is a fourths Live weekend. If you want a
special cameo shout out, you know, I can tell you
how patriotic I am and wrap myself in the flag
(05:46):
if you want on cameo. If you want that this
weekend for the holiday, we are available. We're both on cameo.
I'm on cameo dot com. Just search my name Ben Maller.
Love to do it if you're super fan. If that's
something you would be interested. It's not free, but still
not that much. It's certainly cheaper than most of the
people that are on cameo that are just outrageous some
of the I mean, let's be honest here, some of
(06:07):
the prices are over the top. And guestcon you're on
there also, yes, yes, so you can follow me on there,
David David Jay Gasconners through the search and of course Twitter.
I'm on there. At David Jay Gascon on Instagram is
at Dave Gascon. Yeah, and I'm on all the social
media should know that by now, but maybe not. Ben
Maller on Twitter. That's Ben Maller on Twitter, Instagram, Ben
Maller on Fox and Facebook Ben Maller Show. And again,
(06:30):
if you see those videos from time to time, please
watch them. That helps out get those views up. I
know it seems ridiculous, but the people in our in
our company do look at those kind of things, so
that doesn't help us out. But right now, enough of us.
Guest on, Let's get right into it and we welcome
in on the High Speed Hotline. I don't know is
we have a name for it is just the phone.
(06:51):
He just called in on the phone. How about this
we could call line once? This one actually works for you.
We have a line one, hey man. I am very
excited to talk to with We have not spoken before,
but as I said earlier, I'm a big fan of
his work on radio specifically and also television. I've seen
a lot of him recently. We welcome in Leo Terrell,
who joins us here on the Fifth Hour with Ben
(07:13):
Maller and David Guest Gun and Leo big Fan. I've
enjoyed you over there. What have you been up to? Well, Ben,
First of all, thank you and Dave thanks for having me.
You're right. I started on radio in about the nineties,
mid nineties, and as much as I am a lawyer,
I loved sports. So I've listened to you over the years,
and I listened to Dave, and it's just a privilege
(07:35):
to be on the air with you guys. All right, Well,
it's it's good to have an attorney on because I
feel like we need an attorney with what's going on
in the world. You know, we have an deal in
the sports world obviously, and that has turned very political,
and it's great to have a lawyer on like yourself
here to help enlighten us here. But from a legal perspective,
do you think it makes sense for the sports league
such as the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR to make the
(07:58):
transition into the political You know what My answer is,
yes and no. I think they interspect. I mean, first
of all, people love sports. I love sports to escape
from the rat and race of the world, politics and
all the anger. It's a way to escape. I think
the flip side of that and you experienced it with Kaepernick,
(08:18):
and you see what's happening with NASCAR is that the
situation is that these people, these athletes, are public figures
and they have a conscious, they have an opinion, and
they can make a tremendous impact. Now the question is
the fan. Does the fan want to hear the opinion
of Bubba Wallace or a Colin Kaepernick? And to me,
as a civil rights attorney, is an individual issue. For me,
(08:42):
I'd rather keep politics out of sports, but hey, we
can't deny it. It exists, and it's going to be
a continuation of athletes giving opinions on civil issues such
as the George Floyd murders. Yeah, and you know, continuing
down that line, Leo, I mean, Drew Brees of the
(09:02):
Saints said something that many people felt was benign about
the national anthem, and he just got trampled on for
saying that, and he issued three apologies, at least three apologies.
What did you make of that whole scenario where he
had to apologize multiple times for something many people felt
was not something you need to apologize for. Thank you
(09:23):
very much for asking that question, Drew. If you're listening
to me, you should not apologize. You have a right.
Drew Brees had a right to express his opinion. And
let me be clear, because there's this and this is
your initial question about you know, should athlete talk about
politics and all this stuff? Hey, there is a lot
of different opinions on black lives. Now, let me give
(09:43):
you a perfect example. I don't support black lives. I
do not support black lives because they don't support all
black lives, for example, black police officers who are murdered.
Now I get away with saying that because I'm black.
What would have happened if Drew Brees would have said that?
And he oh, he just his statement was benign. But
what it would have happened if Drew Brees would have
(10:03):
said the Leo Trull just said, he would have been annihilated.
And I think that's wrong. I think athletes have a
right to express opinions and this sort of gang mentality. Oh,
oh my gosh, how dare you? Hey, if any athlete
wants to talk to me, why I pose Black Lives matter,
give me a call. But I think Drew Brees was
(10:24):
unjustly harassed. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. If
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you by the AD Council. Welcome out and machine. Yeah,
and going down that same same rabbit hole, Leah. We
saw it with an NBA broadcast Grant Napier, who had
been calling sacramental kings games for like thirty years, and
(12:16):
he said, all lives matter, and that sent the mob off.
And have we now gotten to the point where you
can't say anything? Has the thought police taken over here?
And there's no differing opinions? Leo, Yeah, I think you
had and that and that Sacramento announcer, in my opinion,
was treated unfairly. All lives matter, I'll say it. All
(12:39):
lives matter. And here's the problem. There is a mindset
and this is what the problem is. Let's here's the
elephant in the room. I compliment Black Lives Matter for
dominating social media, but what they have done is they
have hijack the issue of equality in this country, and
you got corporations, you got athletes, you got company just
(13:00):
contributing millions and millions of dollars, and you have Black
Lives Matter have basically stifle individuals athletes such as Drew Brees, Yeah,
announced up in sacrament They've stifled their speech. And as
a result, if you don't agree with this perception of
Black Lives Matter in totality, you're gonna be punished. And again,
(13:22):
the original issue here is this, when I've listened to sports,
when I listened to basketball and football and baseball, I
don't want to deal with politics and political issues. I
want to escape, and now that seems to be impossible. Leo.
I mean credential wise. I don't know if a lot
of the listeners know your background, know your resume, but
(13:43):
I know you went to cal State Domingus Hills, you
got a master's from Pepperdine, and then you got your
jd from from UCLA, so you're used to a bruin.
A lot of people here in southern California might not
light that, especially if they're Trojan fatures. Hey bring basketball,
pro football, That's exactly it, right, the bread and butter.
(14:04):
What's your what's your thought process behind what the NBA,
Because you look at all the leagues, well it's the NBA,
Major League Baseball, the NFL, the NHL, and now NASCAR.
But with the NBA and how progressive they are, they've
had the thought and they've flowed the idea with the
players and the players Association that they want to once
the season does resume in Orlando, is that they want
(14:27):
to have the players have an opportunity to not have
their last names on their jerseys but have either social issues,
social causes, or charity funds that are named on the
back of their jerseys. What's your thought behind all that?
And do you feel that that is beneficial for the
sport and for the general public. Let me answer that
(14:50):
question absolutely not. It's a horrible idea. And again, I'm
a civil rights attorney. I got a lot of credibility
to speak on issue evolving police misconduct. I have handled
some of the biggest police cases in this country for
the last twenty five years. And this attempt to basically
(15:12):
among the NBA players to hijack the NBA and turn
into a social conscious issue when in fact they don't
even really know what they're talking about. Again. You know,
you know, we got this horrible situation of George Floyd
being murdered, but this leap in logic that oh my gosh,
police officers are racist throughout the entire country. I will
(15:35):
submit to you the following side that in democratic cities Chicago, La, Baltimore, Washington, Hill,
who's running the city, minorities, people of color. So back
to the social issue. Whoever is thinking about this, they
don't understand what the real issue is. I can tell
you right now, NBA, help me develop great school in
(16:01):
the minority community. School education is the civil rights issue,
not police misconduct. So this symbolic issue of wearing social
justice issues on the back of your jersey, that's a
great tr stunt, but it doesn't accomplish anything, and a defeat.
Again the original question you asked me, I want to
(16:23):
go watch basketball to escape from problems in heading, not
to see it in my face. You know, it's it's
fascinate that you brought that up with the education system
because I had the chance after we had originally taught
and I had a chat with what the chief. I
had a chat with my dad a few days ago
and asked him, you know, background wise, how you guys
(16:43):
you know, connected, and he told me a fascinating case
that you guys were a part of. And then he
had mentioned something interesting when he was working in the
Southeastern Division and you had a lot of contacts and
people that you knew and Watts, and he told me
a fascinating story about how these black women, these mothers
would put their kids in bathtubs at night so they
(17:09):
can sleep with protection because there'd be guns sprang bullets
all over the place when these kids are going to
bed at night. And it was fascinating to me. What
he would told me is that kids would go to
school and the first hour they learned nothing, and the
last hour of the day in school, they'd learn nothing
(17:30):
because they were worried about what happened the night before,
and they were worried about what's going to happen at
night when they go home, when they're simply trying to survive.
And my question, my question to you for Lee is
this is that there aren't players and there are athletes
like Ben's talked about this a lot with Kobe Bryant,
for as well renowned as he was, most of the
(17:50):
charity work he did behind the scenes, so My question is,
do you feel like enough of these athletes do enough
for their communities to make sure that they can get
some of the benefits of what they have done professionally
and obviolacy financially. Let me think about that. Give me
a say, hell no, they haven't done nothing, because what
you just describe goes on every day. That's why here's
(18:14):
another news flash. People of color love the police in
the community. You know why. It's that buffer zone between
them and the criminals. They love the police in community
of color. And have they done enough? Could you imagine? Look,
let's be clear, guy, I'm gonna be very honest with you.
African Americans dominated NBA basketball. They make millions of billions
(18:35):
of dollars, they're branded. Could you imagine if they put
some money into education, improve the school system. The reason
why the three of us are talking right now because
we went to school, we went to college, we got
an education, and we have been able to pull ourselves
up through education. And what I'm saying if these if
(18:58):
everyone from the NBA listening to this podcast, please stop
worrying about putting your name on the back of a
jersey for branding your old personal benefit. And if you
really care about people of color, improve the school system.
Education is the new civil rights issue athletes. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays
(19:19):
at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Get right to
the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's
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bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries, gourmet treats and more.
Surprise your Valentine with one eight hundred flowers dot com
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(19:41):
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(20:49):
the Forest dot org. Brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the ad Council and LEO. We've
heard a lot of athletes recently, and not a ton,
but a few said, you know, I don't know if
I want to even play. We've heard Dwight Howard some
NBA guys say that until there's major change, that they
feel like they're uncomfortable playing their sports because their entertainment
(21:11):
for the masses and all that. In your opinion, what
do you think they actually want to see happen before
they'd be happy playing because I've I've heard a lot
of random statements, but I haven't heard any specifics. And
what really needs to happen for them to be comfortable,
you know, I'll tell you right now. Let's set aside
the pandemic, and you know, they say they don't want
to play because until things change in society. Now, what
(21:35):
I find amazing when I hear them say this, I
hear I'm hearing black multi millionaires basically sitting there and saying,
you know, I want things to change. Are they see
discrimination and police misconduct every day? Are they reflecting their
views of what their personal experiencing, or are they guessie,
(21:56):
what's going on out in the communities of color, because
they don't. There's a total disconnect there. I'm scratching my
head because they don't live in the community any longer.
They're insulated from all the issues that they're troubled by.
So all these athletes who are not going to play,
they're going to go back to their big mansions and
they're multiple cards and relax and they don't face the
(22:19):
data in day out problems of the people who they
allegedly are concerned with. I find that hard to believe,
and I think it's very disingenuous, and all they're doing
is drinking the cool aid that we got to change
this racist system that exists. Let me be as clear
as possible, because this systematic discrimination, institutionalized racism. Athletes, let
(22:42):
me tell you right now, this is not the nineteen sixties.
This is not Bull Connor, Lexter Maddox, George Wallace, the
German shepherds of going after black folks at dining areas.
That doesn't exist. This is twenty twenty where you have athletes,
superstar celebrities of all different colors, a black president for
eight years part of the system. So stop playing that game.
(23:05):
You're our pockets of racism. I agree, That's why I'm
still working. But come on, athletes from the NBA, NFL, MLB,
they're facing racism. Give me, give me a break. Come on, well,
and Leo following that up, how much heat are you taking?
I mean, as a black guy, And I know we've
(23:26):
seen a few other people who have crossed the line,
if you will, and they take a lot of crap.
Are you taking a lot of crap for your position
on this? How How have people been treating me? You know.
One of the reasons why I've always been self employed
so that I wouldn't have to worry about economic pressure.
I've been a self employed lawyer for thirty years. I
don't have to worry about going into the office. And
(23:48):
boss said, Hey, man, I just don't like what you
said on Ben Mallard and David A. Scone's podcast. You're
gonna we're gonnabout you go so economically. I'm not worried
as far as and I have credibility on the on
this so called you know discriminations, I have tremendous credibility
answer your questions. Am I taking some heat? Yeah? Does
it bother me? No? Hear that Drew Brees. It doesn't
(24:11):
bother me because I can sleep well and my conscious
is clear. I challenge debate anyone on the issues that
I'm articulating on this podcast because I know I know
what I'm talking about. I'm a civil rights lawyer for
thirty years, and you got all these athletes, non athletes,
talking about civil rights. Show me your credentials. I'll debate
(24:33):
anytime you want to, on the arena floor, downtown city hall,
or in the middle of the streets. So no, I'm
getting heat by I bothered by it. I want more
heat Leo. I guess the one question is when you
mentioned athletes, and even if you cross over to celebrities,
they're all wealthy and they all have incredible comfort from
(24:53):
obviously their opportunities and what they've credit for themselves. Who
do you think or what do you think is the
driving for behind this with these athletes, because as you mentioned,
you know, the thought of giving money away or a
thought of providing money for a charity or for a
cause is one thing, but to actually support it and
to be intelligent to have knowledge behind it as a
completely other thing. So why do you think or who
(25:16):
do you think is kind of pushing these buttons for
these athletes? And who do you think is steering the
ship for them? A good question and it's easy answer.
They're insulated by yes people, and these yes people want
to our only focused on perception. And again I go
back to Black Lives Matter. If a small fringe organization,
but they have control social media and they dominate the conversation.
(25:41):
To answer your questions, these athletes are misguided by yes
people who surround them and they provide them with advice.
In my opinion, bad advice to make sure they look good.
But from a substance standpoint, a substance standpoint, nothing, I'll
give Bna. Let me give Lebron James credit on one issue,
(26:03):
one issue which should be something that all these athletes
they really want to do. Something he created that I
promise school. That was powerful. I used to be a
school teacher for five years. I know the power of education.
Now now that was substance. And could you imagine all
these athletes making zillions of dollars, the pressure they have
(26:26):
on corporation and companies that want an endorsement. Okay, let's
improve the quality of the school. Let's go private schools,
private schools in the city of la That would be great.
We get rid of these horrible public school teachers, these
horrible unions. I used to be a public school teacher.
Who get rid of these unions who are nothing, are nothing,
to have only the interests of their own self interests
and not about the kids in minority areas. That's the
(26:48):
area to go. But hey, they're insulated by yes people,
and all these yes peoples are concerned about public perception. Period. Now, Leo,
you grew up and than California. You went to Guardina
High School. Craict me if I'm wrong on that. Um,
what was your first love? Were you a football guy?
Were you a basketball guy? Were you baseball? Like? Where
(27:09):
did you fall in love with first? Let me tell
you right now. First of all, I love sports more
than you guys. Okay, okay, that's okay right now. If
you're gonna say that, that means that Ben and I
love politics more than you. Let me tell you. I
want as I'm want to ask you a question. All
I wanted to do was become a short stop like
Moriy Wills. That's all I wanted to do in my life.
(27:30):
And and so baseball was my number one favorite old
time sport. And it then it transitioned to football in
the seventies with Brasshaw and the Steelers, and then it
transitioned in the eighties to Magic and the Lakers in basketball.
So I basically grew up loving baseball. And really I'm
(27:53):
really a three sports person Baseball, basketball, football, I like
the Olympics. I like track and feel the way. Let
me brag a little bit, because, like I said, I
love sports. On February first, February nineteen sixty seven, Mohammed
Alie fought a guy for fifteen round the Houston Astrodome.
His name was Ernie Terrell. I repeat, Ernie Terrell. Do
(28:16):
your research. That's my cousin. Oh my goodness, that's pretty cool. Yeah,
four guys. Yes, I love for I love boxing. Well.
See the reason why I was asking is this is
that you know, a few years ago I coached in Compton.
I actually coached junior college football Compton College, and part
of Major League Baseball's Inner City programs is that they
(28:36):
helped build a legit baseball diamond in the city of
Compton on Compton Compton's campus. A few days ago, Ian
Desmond of the Colorado Rockies had sent out a giant
post on a blog and put it on Twitter and
Instagram about what he grew up and what he felt
like and what he saw, what he experienced, and part
(28:58):
of it was the lack of engagement with black youth
in the game of baseball. Have you experienced that and
do you see that here in Los Angeles? Because when
do you think about baseball? At least for me, I
think about cal State Fullerton, I think Long Beach State,
I think UCLA, I think pepper DWNE, I think you
see Irvine even think Sandy was state. So it's a
(29:19):
hot bed for talent here in southern California. But do
you think we get enough here from the youth? I
think don't we get we have, you know, the Dodgers here.
I think we have the opportunities and the resources here
in LA I didn't. I don't feel that as something
that people of color are not made up or don't
have opportunities to pursue. I think it's I think it's
(29:42):
a hot bed of talent here. I think it's a
matter of choice, I think right now, but the choice
in southern California is basically football and basketball. But opportunities definitely,
definitely they exist for baseball and you know this pursuit
are you know, trying to recruit. I think it's the
issue is really the preference of the students in the community,
(30:05):
and they prefer basketball and football. But I do want
to say something on this topic. You know, I would
prefer if you ask me. And as much as sports
has gotten a lot of athletes out of the community
and have gone on to bigger and better things, you know,
if they're going to put a nice football still or
a basketball diamond in the community of color. Can you
(30:26):
improve the school again? The education aspect, you guys know
as well as I do. Athletics is a short term career.
And you know I'm practicing law. I could practice law forever.
I got twenty five years in the bank. I can
feel I can go out and teach right now. And
so I'm looking at and you guys know the percentages
of athletes who actually make it to make it to
(30:46):
the big time. We want to make sure these athletes
have an alternative to sports. And that's what Smith that
goes back to education again. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Ben Meller Show weekdays at two m
Eastern eleven pm Pacific. And we're live here outside the
Perez family home, just waiting for the and there they go,
(31:08):
almost on time. This morning. Mom is coming out the
front door strong with a double arm kid carry. Looks
like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear.
Oh but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys
are everywhere. Ooh, but mom has just nailed the perfect
car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter,
(31:29):
who looks to be about nine or ten has secured
herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed
and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize
her coffee cup is still on the roof of the
car and there it goes. Ah. That's a shame. That
mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff,
just nail the big stuff, like making sure your kids
(31:50):
are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes.
Learn more at NHTSA dot gov slash the Right Seat
visits NHTSA dot gov slash the Right Seat, brought to
you by NITZA and the AD Council. What grows in
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Well and LEO following that, I mean, we've had the
war on police, which apparently is going on right now,
But what about a war on education? As you've said,
as a teacher, what would you What are a couple
of points you would throw out that need to be
(33:15):
done to improve the education in the inner city, in
the black community. What tangibly can these athletes do that
would make a dramatic difference. Thank you, NBA, lebron, Chris Paul,
all you guys on TNT and all these states. So
let me tell what you do. Give people of color choice,
(33:39):
I mean choice, not sell the kool aids that public
schools are great institutions. They're not. They're horrible. Don't get
me wrong. I went to a public school. But give
individuals a choice between public schools and private schools in
charter school make it competitive, give an economic incentive. This
(34:03):
is what I could imagine. I would imagine a high
school or elementary school, the faculty or professors, college professors.
I mean, it would just be amazing what you know
as well as I do. Kids can learn so much
at a young age. And that to me, Chris Paul
(34:23):
Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Lebron, Adam Silver, improve
the qualities of schools. Just challenge public schools. Drive that
unions out of there. I'm sorry, I'm being political. The
unions are just so detrimental to improving schools in minority areas.
That's number one. That's what I'm going to be pushing
(34:44):
for the rest of my life. Do you think it
hurts us or helps us that certain universities now are
are actually getting rid of the SAT I think I
think it's an insult. I love innerdised test and let
me tell you what I'm talking about. Yeah, I went
to UCLA Law school. I took the California State Bar,
the hardest bar in the country. Wait before you get
(35:07):
any before you get anything else, Leo, When you took
the California State Bar, how much did it cost then,
because I know it's over one thousand dollars now and
it's three days. Let me tell you, right, if if
memory serves me correct, it may have been anywhere between
three to four year dollars. And I may be wrong.
I just don't remember. But I took the California State Bar,
(35:27):
and this black man passed the California State Bar on
the first try, and and and and all. A standardized
test provised is a level of qualification and competency to
eliminate the SAT. To eliminate standardized test, it gives you
(35:50):
a level plane feel and trust me. And I took
this California State Bar thirty some nine years ago. And
so i'm i'm I'm against eliminating standardized test. And let
me just throw this out because it's gonna happen in California.
They're putting on the bill on the legislation UM just
(36:11):
to reinstitute affirmative action. Oh my gosh. I'm a civil
rights journey. I believe in equality, not preferential treatment. This
is not in nineteen sixty again, I got there. Also,
if NBA players build up schools in the inner city,
those those black and brown kids would be passing the
SAT becoming doctors and lawyers in great numbers. Yeah, and
(36:36):
I'm gonna go aheat. You mentioned your your relative there,
your cousin with Muhammad Ali. But some people great rail.
So if some people are comparing Colin Kaepernick to Muhammad Ali,
where are you on that? There's a Kaepernick's been turned
into a deity by certain factions. Where are you on
the Kaepernick story? Thank you for asking that question. Uh,
it is an insult to Muhamma Ali's family and everyone
(37:02):
who knows the accomplishments of Muhammad Ali to put Colin
Kaepernick to even in that category. That's that's an insult. Again,
I get the way I get to say that because
I guess my color shameful. Everyone should be able to
say what I'm saying if they feel that way. Now,
let's let me go on and explain why why I
say this this assumption. And let me tell you again,
(37:26):
there are bad police officers. Don't dispute that. But when
Kaepernick presentation of racial injustice among police departments, I don't
buy him. I don't buy. I don't know what his
motives was. He has a right to express his motives,
but I don't buy his motive that he was protesting
(37:47):
this massive across the nation police misconduct. We'll say it
in Chicago, La Baltimore. If mister Kaepernick listen to your podcast,
I'd like to talk to him about it. He is
a creature a public perception and his timing. He had
the perfect storm four years ago. He came out he
(38:07):
was a lone ranger. He's been he's been black ball,
which I think is wrong by the NFL. And then
the George Floyd situation. Guess what people did. Oh he's right, No, no,
he's not right, because what happened in Minneapolis was three
was one rogue police officer with three other knitwitch and
(38:29):
they murder a black man. But guess what the public
perception is. It's nineteen sixty all over again. And everybody said, oh,
Colin Kaepernick is right. No, Colin Kaepernick is still wrong.
But you know what, he's a big man, naw, because
he just points to George Floyd and said, look, see
I was right. And when Goodell said, oh, black lives matter,
(38:53):
well again, there was a black retired captain in Saint
Louis who was murdered. To send me a pawn shop.
I didn't see Colin Kaepernick there. I didn't see Al
Sharpened there. I didn't see Black Lives Matter there. But
he's his life. He's a black man. See that's that's
the hypocrisy of all this. And Drew Brees, if you're listening,
(39:16):
take back your apology, Well absolutely, I agree with you
on that. I think the apology was ridiculous. But Leo,
what about Lebron? We want to go back to Lebron
because some people around his circle are saying, this is
a future politician, this is a guy that somebody could
run for president. You're in the political world. How do
you think he would do as a politician Lebron James.
(39:39):
I think there's there's two key elements to being a
good politician. You gotta have a good heart where people
really believe that you care about them. You got to
have a good head. And I think Lebron James has
a great heart, and I think he needs to have
(39:59):
some you know, I told you he was insulated with
a lot of yes people around him. People were interested
in perception. But he needs to expand his inner circle
with people to keep him inform of facts, information and
come up with a position because you know, I would
(40:21):
disagree with Michael Jordan twenty five thirty years ago he
said demographs Republicans both by nikes. Now, I think there's
a place for athletes if they want to pursue the
political ram, but just don't do it based on your
brand name. Learn the facts, educate yourself because you have
people who will follow you because of their association by
(40:44):
watching you play sports. So I think Lebron James has
a tremendous potential a lot of upside if he goes
to political route, but surround himself with people who have
his best interests at heart and what he wants to
accomplish at heart. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
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(41:08):
Search f SR to listen live. And Lee's going to
ask you a question on that note, because Lebron and
some of the other stars in the NBA are forming
themselves a voting rights group. If you're the commissioner, Adam Silver,
who has been progressive, it has actually looked for for
ways to to push the push the envelope a little
(41:30):
bit and to get out there into the into the communities.
What do you do and how do you as as
commissioner the NBA. I know it's a it's a it's
a tight tight walk because you're obviously do one's best
for the league, what's best for the owners, but also
you're gonna look out for your players too. So when
you have, like you said, an insulated group like this,
(41:51):
some might perceive that as Lebron's just getting people that
want to follow him to the voting you know, to
the voting ballots. Um, how do you advise these guys
then if they don't have the kind of pushback that
you were offering for other individuals that challenge you. I think,
first of all, Silver, you're right, has a very tight
(42:12):
rope to sort of walk. Remember he's employed by the owners.
They hire him, and I think Silver has a lot
of credibility. Donald Sterling situation, I think he has a
lot of credibility as far as being decisive, also having
the listening ear of the player. But you know, this
is a line that he has to draw and the
players have to understand what their role is. The NBA
(42:36):
unlike the other leagues, and you guys would probably agree
with this. I hope is that it is player dominated,
unlike the NFL, where the owners control. So there is
a position that Adam Silver and the players reps with
Lebron and Chris Paul, and they have to work for
the total betterment of not only what the NBA stands for,
(42:59):
but this idea of going beyond sports into other areas.
I have a problem with that. Yeah, and Leo, I
guess we'll leave you on this. I saw the other
day that President Trump retweeted a video that you were
in the other night on Fox that I know Trump
is very controversial. Obviously, that's pretty cool, though, to have
the President of the United States tweet that out. How
(43:21):
did that feel? I was? I was, I would listen
let me. I was, first of all, very happy. I
think what I said in the tweet that the video,
I believe. I believe that you know, I love this country,
and I think that there's been a lot of pandering
going on. And what bothers me is that a lot
(43:41):
of people are manipulating, exploiting the George Floyd situation. For
the President of the United States to retweet something that
I participated in about this country was a great honor,
and I think the president right now is a person
trying to establish law and order in this country, and unfortunately,
(44:01):
because we're in a political season, he's not any help
from the other party. And I think that creates a
very unusual election this upcoming year. And I think that
we had the pandemic, the riots, the loss of the
great Kobe Bryant. This has been one of the most
unusual years ever in my life. And we still have
about four or five months left. Absolutely, Leo, thank you
(44:24):
for your time. Big fan. Love hearing you on the radio,
seeing you on TV, and continued success. And man, I
want to say this, thank you very much because I
love sports and just to talk about sports, politics and life.
This is probably one of the I really enjoyed the interview.
Thank you very much for having me, Leo, Thanks for
coming on with us. Appreciate it. Take care of have
(44:45):
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Get right to the romance and find the way to
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you thought four hours a day, twelve hundred minutes a
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the old Republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He treats
(00:43):
crackheads in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich
pill poppers in the penthouse. Wow. The Clearinghouse of Hot
takes break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with
Ben Maller starts right now. That it does, and we
are in the air everywhere the vast power of podcasting,
(01:04):
the global reach of the iHeart podcast network, and we
thank you for downloading and subscribing to this particular podcast,
a spinoff of the radio show The Overnight Show, The
Ben Mallers Show on Fox Sports Radio. This a standalone
show as a spinoff, And we are here now eight
days a week, because four hours are clearly not enough,
(01:28):
and joined yet again by David Gascon for better or worse,
he is right over there standing. I don't know if
this could be like a standing eight count, Ben, but
welcome to the month of July, and we are bearing
for another month of the coronavirus. And I guess we
(01:49):
what we do? We're dipping our toes back in the
deep end of the pool today. Well, I've got my
tap dance shoes on because we are gonna go do
a little tap dance on the third rail. My man,
it's the third rail. So I'm gonna warn you right
now if you are triggered by political conversation and related
to sports, this is probably not the podcast for you. Okay.
(02:09):
If you don't want to hear that, I understand. Not
everyone wants to hear that. I know a lot of
people tell me they listen to the show to get
away from that. I get it. I completely understand. But
if you're into it and you're you want to hear
some interesting opinions. I am very excited about this an
interview podcast. You probably know that from looking at it.
And we are going to be joined here in a
couple of minutes by the great Leo Terrell. Now Leo
(02:32):
Terrell and I have had a similar radio because now
he's had more cool stuff happened in his life. He's
an attorney. You know, he's actually lived a life. I've
just been in radio. But Leo a very successful civil
rights attorney. Fact, he calls himself the fair minded civil
rights attorney. And he was a teacher and he's had
a lot of interesting things that he's done in his life,
(02:56):
and he's done very well in education and whatnot. And
he starts started at KABC in Los Angeles around the
time I started at the mighty six ninety in San Diego,
which is our We learned from hacks Off when when
he was on a few while back that it's you know,
seventy seven thousand watch it was really an LA station
(03:16):
slash you know, San Diego slash LAU six night. But anyway,
so we we've kind of been on the radio at
the same time. Here I've appreciated from Afar Leo's work.
I love good radio. I'm a radio nerd. I love
people that do radio well. I I you know, guess
on my pet peeve is when people do layup line
radio and you know Mount Rushmore and he just don't
(03:37):
put any effort into it. I never got that sense
from Leo when I've listened to him over the years.
He's always been prepared. He's got passionate opinions, and that
to me, that's the most entertaining thing to listen to.
That's what I look forward to listening to when I
tune into a radio show. Yeah, it's it's fascinating because
you know how he connected. He actually has known my
dad for decades. And two things that you know, the
(04:00):
chief had told me was he said something about Leo
that you need to know is that one he listens
and two he cares. And as the first things that
popped up to me, obviously, if you're gonna be if
you're gonna be dynamic and radio, you've got to be
able to do those two things because unlike sports, where
you can, like you said, mail and it at times
and do box score, radio politics and social issues no chance. Yeah,
(04:22):
you can't. You can't do it, You'll be called out
and Leo's I feel like he's getting more and more popular.
Is his reach, his footprint is getting bigger and bigger.
I know he's a contributor at Fox News, He's done
some other TV stuff sporadically, but I feel like this
last couple of weeks he's really been at the forefront
a lot of these issues that we talk about because
(04:43):
they're loosely related to sports. Yeah, but I think one
of the main reasons outside of what he's doing in
terms of content is if you'd noticed Ben, he has
a Lavalier microphone and he has a wonderful backdrop in
his studio. I think that you're encouraging Wait wait, wait,
I got I got a I'm looking behind me here.
(05:03):
I got a beautiful blue background with the Fox Sports
Radio logo and my logo. Although I didn't notice the
way the people at the company made the logo not
to go down a rabbit hole here is they made
the logos. Where I sit, you can pretty much only
see the Fox Sports Radio logo and not the Ben
Maller Show logo. I find somebody pointed that out to
(05:26):
me and said you know, you can't really see your logo.
You can only see the Fox Sports radiogo and I'm like, no, no,
my logos there. It's just my head is covering it up.
And so but anyway, and before we get into leo here,
I didn't want to promote us because it's all about us.
This is a fourths Live weekend. If you want a
special cameo shout out, you know, I can tell you
how patriotic I am and wrap myself in the flag
(05:46):
if you want on cameo. If you want that this
weekend for the holiday, we are available. We're both on cameo.
I'm on cameo dot com. Just search my name Ben Maller.
Love to do it if you're super fan. If that's
something you would be interested. It's not free, but still
not that much. It's certainly cheaper than most of the
people that are on cameo that are just outrageous some
of the I mean, let's be honest here, some of
(06:07):
the prices are over the top. And guestcon you're on
there also, yes, yes, so you can follow me on there,
David David Jay Gasconners through the search and of course Twitter.
I'm on there. At David Jay Gascon on Instagram is
at Dave Gascon. Yeah, and I'm on all the social
media should know that by now, but maybe not. Ben
Maller on Twitter. That's Ben Maller on Twitter, Instagram, Ben
Maller on Fox and Facebook Ben Maller Show. And again,
(06:30):
if you see those videos from time to time, please
watch them. That helps out get those views up. I
know it seems ridiculous, but the people in our in
our company do look at those kind of things, so
that doesn't help us out. But right now, enough of us.
Guest on, Let's get right into it and we welcome
in on the High Speed Hotline. I don't know is
we have a name for it is just the phone.
(06:51):
He just called in on the phone. How about this
we could call line once? This one actually works for you.
We have a line one, hey man. I am very
excited to talk to with We have not spoken before,
but as I said earlier, I'm a big fan of
his work on radio specifically and also television. I've seen
a lot of him recently. We welcome in Leo Terrell,
who joins us here on the Fifth Hour with Ben
(07:13):
Maller and David Guest Gun and Leo big Fan. I've
enjoyed you over there. What have you been up to? Well, Ben,
First of all, thank you and Dave thanks for having me.
You're right. I started on radio in about the nineties,
mid nineties, and as much as I am a lawyer,
I loved sports. So I've listened to you over the years,
and I listened to Dave, and it's just a privilege
(07:35):
to be on the air with you guys. All right, Well,
it's it's good to have an attorney on because I
feel like we need an attorney with what's going on
in the world. You know, we have an deal in
the sports world obviously, and that has turned very political,
and it's great to have a lawyer on like yourself
here to help enlighten us here. But from a legal perspective,
do you think it makes sense for the sports league
such as the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR to make the
(07:58):
transition into the political You know what My answer is,
yes and no. I think they interspect. I mean, first
of all, people love sports. I love sports to escape
from the rat and race of the world, politics and
all the anger. It's a way to escape. I think
the flip side of that and you experienced it with Kaepernick,
(08:18):
and you see what's happening with NASCAR is that the
situation is that these people, these athletes, are public figures
and they have a conscious, they have an opinion, and
they can make a tremendous impact. Now the question is
the fan. Does the fan want to hear the opinion
of Bubba Wallace or a Colin Kaepernick? And to me,
as a civil rights attorney, is an individual issue. For me,
(08:42):
I'd rather keep politics out of sports, but hey, we
can't deny it. It exists, and it's going to be
a continuation of athletes giving opinions on civil issues such
as the George Floyd murders. Yeah, and you know, continuing
down that line, Leo, I mean, Drew Brees of the
(09:02):
Saints said something that many people felt was benign about
the national anthem, and he just got trampled on for
saying that, and he issued three apologies, at least three apologies.
What did you make of that whole scenario where he
had to apologize multiple times for something many people felt
was not something you need to apologize for. Thank you
(09:23):
very much for asking that question, Drew. If you're listening
to me, you should not apologize. You have a right.
Drew Brees had a right to express his opinion. And
let me be clear, because there's this and this is
your initial question about you know, should athlete talk about
politics and all this stuff? Hey, there is a lot
of different opinions on black lives. Now, let me give
(09:43):
you a perfect example. I don't support black lives. I
do not support black lives because they don't support all
black lives, for example, black police officers who are murdered.
Now I get away with saying that because I'm black.
What would have happened if Drew Brees would have said that?
And he oh, he just his statement was benign. But
what it would have happened if Drew Brees would have
(10:03):
said the Leo Trull just said, he would have been annihilated.
And I think that's wrong. I think athletes have a
right to express opinions and this sort of gang mentality. Oh,
oh my gosh, how dare you? Hey, if any athlete
wants to talk to me, why I pose Black Lives matter,
give me a call. But I think Drew Brees was
(10:24):
unjustly harassed. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm
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(11:11):
in the forest, Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and
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The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest
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(11:32):
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you by the AD Council. Welcome out and machine. Yeah,
and going down that same same rabbit hole, Leah. We
saw it with an NBA broadcast Grant Napier, who had
been calling sacramental kings games for like thirty years, and
(12:16):
he said, all lives matter, and that sent the mob off.
And have we now gotten to the point where you
can't say anything? Has the thought police taken over here?
And there's no differing opinions? Leo, Yeah, I think you
had and that and that Sacramento announcer, in my opinion,
was treated unfairly. All lives matter, I'll say it. All
(12:39):
lives matter. And here's the problem. There is a mindset
and this is what the problem is. Let's here's the
elephant in the room. I compliment Black Lives Matter for
dominating social media, but what they have done is they
have hijack the issue of equality in this country, and
you got corporations, you got athletes, you got company just
(13:00):
contributing millions and millions of dollars, and you have Black
Lives Matter have basically stifle individuals athletes such as Drew Brees, Yeah,
announced up in sacrament They've stifled their speech. And as
a result, if you don't agree with this perception of
Black Lives Matter in totality, you're gonna be punished. And again,
(13:22):
the original issue here is this, when I've listened to sports,
when I listened to basketball and football and baseball, I
don't want to deal with politics and political issues. I
want to escape, and now that seems to be impossible. Leo.
I mean credential wise. I don't know if a lot
of the listeners know your background, know your resume, but
(13:43):
I know you went to cal State Domingus Hills, you
got a master's from Pepperdine, and then you got your
jd from from UCLA, so you're used to a bruin.
A lot of people here in southern California might not
light that, especially if they're Trojan fatures. Hey bring basketball,
pro football, That's exactly it, right, the bread and butter.
(14:04):
What's your what's your thought process behind what the NBA,
Because you look at all the leagues, well it's the NBA,
Major League Baseball, the NFL, the NHL, and now NASCAR.
But with the NBA and how progressive they are, they've
had the thought and they've flowed the idea with the
players and the players Association that they want to once
the season does resume in Orlando, is that they want
(14:27):
to have the players have an opportunity to not have
their last names on their jerseys but have either social issues,
social causes, or charity funds that are named on the
back of their jerseys. What's your thought behind all that?
And do you feel that that is beneficial for the
sport and for the general public. Let me answer that
(14:50):
question absolutely not. It's a horrible idea. And again, I'm
a civil rights attorney. I got a lot of credibility
to speak on issue evolving police misconduct. I have handled
some of the biggest police cases in this country for
the last twenty five years. And this attempt to basically
(15:12):
among the NBA players to hijack the NBA and turn
into a social conscious issue when in fact they don't
even really know what they're talking about. Again. You know,
you know, we got this horrible situation of George Floyd
being murdered, but this leap in logic that oh my gosh,
police officers are racist throughout the entire country. I will
(15:35):
submit to you the following side that in democratic cities Chicago, La, Baltimore, Washington, Hill,
who's running the city, minorities, people of color. So back
to the social issue. Whoever is thinking about this, they
don't understand what the real issue is. I can tell
you right now, NBA, help me develop great school in
(16:01):
the minority community. School education is the civil rights issue,
not police misconduct. So this symbolic issue of wearing social
justice issues on the back of your jersey, that's a
great tr stunt, but it doesn't accomplish anything, and a defeat.
Again the original question you asked me, I want to
(16:23):
go watch basketball to escape from problems in heading, not
to see it in my face. You know, it's it's
fascinate that you brought that up with the education system
because I had the chance after we had originally taught
and I had a chat with what the chief. I
had a chat with my dad a few days ago
and asked him, you know, background wise, how you guys
(16:43):
you know, connected, and he told me a fascinating case
that you guys were a part of. And then he
had mentioned something interesting when he was working in the
Southeastern Division and you had a lot of contacts and
people that you knew and Watts, and he told me
a fascinating story about how these black women, these mothers
would put their kids in bathtubs at night so they
(17:09):
can sleep with protection because there'd be guns sprang bullets
all over the place when these kids are going to
bed at night. And it was fascinating to me. What
he would told me is that kids would go to
school and the first hour they learned nothing, and the
last hour of the day in school, they'd learn nothing
(17:30):
because they were worried about what happened the night before,
and they were worried about what's going to happen at
night when they go home, when they're simply trying to survive.
And my question, my question to you for Lee is
this is that there aren't players and there are athletes
like Ben's talked about this a lot with Kobe Bryant,
for as well renowned as he was, most of the
(17:50):
charity work he did behind the scenes, so My question is,
do you feel like enough of these athletes do enough
for their communities to make sure that they can get
some of the benefits of what they have done professionally
and obviolacy financially. Let me think about that. Give me
a say, hell no, they haven't done nothing, because what
you just describe goes on every day. That's why here's
(18:14):
another news flash. People of color love the police in
the community. You know why. It's that buffer zone between
them and the criminals. They love the police in community
of color. And have they done enough? Could you imagine? Look,
let's be clear, guy, I'm gonna be very honest with you.
African Americans dominated NBA basketball. They make millions of billions
(18:35):
of dollars, they're branded. Could you imagine if they put
some money into education, improve the school system. The reason
why the three of us are talking right now because
we went to school, we went to college, we got
an education, and we have been able to pull ourselves
up through education. And what I'm saying if these if
(18:58):
everyone from the NBA listening to this podcast, please stop
worrying about putting your name on the back of a
jersey for branding your old personal benefit. And if you
really care about people of color, improve the school system.
Education is the new civil rights issue athletes. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays
(19:19):
at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Get right to
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the Forest dot org. Brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the ad Council and LEO. We've
heard a lot of athletes recently, and not a ton,
but a few said, you know, I don't know if
I want to even play. We've heard Dwight Howard some
NBA guys say that until there's major change, that they
feel like they're uncomfortable playing their sports because their entertainment
(21:11):
for the masses and all that. In your opinion, what
do you think they actually want to see happen before
they'd be happy playing because I've I've heard a lot
of random statements, but I haven't heard any specifics. And
what really needs to happen for them to be comfortable,
you know, I'll tell you right now. Let's set aside
the pandemic, and you know, they say they don't want
to play because until things change in society. Now, what
(21:35):
I find amazing when I hear them say this, I
hear I'm hearing black multi millionaires basically sitting there and saying,
you know, I want things to change. Are they see
discrimination and police misconduct every day? Are they reflecting their
views of what their personal experiencing, or are they guessie,
(21:56):
what's going on out in the communities of color, because
they don't. There's a total disconnect there. I'm scratching my
head because they don't live in the community any longer.
They're insulated from all the issues that they're troubled by.
So all these athletes who are not going to play,
they're going to go back to their big mansions and
they're multiple cards and relax and they don't face the
(22:19):
data in day out problems of the people who they
allegedly are concerned with. I find that hard to believe,
and I think it's very disingenuous, and all they're doing
is drinking the cool aid that we got to change
this racist system that exists. Let me be as clear
as possible, because this systematic discrimination, institutionalized racism. Athletes, let
(22:42):
me tell you right now, this is not the nineteen sixties.
This is not Bull Connor, Lexter Maddox, George Wallace, the
German shepherds of going after black folks at dining areas.
That doesn't exist. This is twenty twenty where you have athletes,
superstar celebrities of all different colors, a black president for
eight years part of the system. So stop playing that game.
(23:05):
You're our pockets of racism. I agree, That's why I'm
still working. But come on, athletes from the NBA, NFL, MLB,
they're facing racism. Give me, give me a break. Come on, well,
and Leo following that up, how much heat are you taking?
I mean, as a black guy, And I know we've
(23:26):
seen a few other people who have crossed the line,
if you will, and they take a lot of crap.
Are you taking a lot of crap for your position
on this? How How have people been treating me? You know.
One of the reasons why I've always been self employed
so that I wouldn't have to worry about economic pressure.
I've been a self employed lawyer for thirty years. I
don't have to worry about going into the office. And
(23:48):
boss said, Hey, man, I just don't like what you
said on Ben Mallard and David A. Scone's podcast. You're
gonna we're gonnabout you go so economically. I'm not worried
as far as and I have credibility on the on
this so called you know discriminations, I have tremendous credibility
answer your questions. Am I taking some heat? Yeah? Does
it bother me? No? Hear that Drew Brees. It doesn't
(24:11):
bother me because I can sleep well and my conscious
is clear. I challenge debate anyone on the issues that
I'm articulating on this podcast because I know I know
what I'm talking about. I'm a civil rights lawyer for
thirty years, and you got all these athletes, non athletes,
talking about civil rights. Show me your credentials. I'll debate
(24:33):
anytime you want to, on the arena floor, downtown city hall,
or in the middle of the streets. So no, I'm
getting heat by I bothered by it. I want more
heat Leo. I guess the one question is when you
mentioned athletes, and even if you cross over to celebrities,
they're all wealthy and they all have incredible comfort from
(24:53):
obviously their opportunities and what they've credit for themselves. Who
do you think or what do you think is the
driving for behind this with these athletes, because as you mentioned,
you know, the thought of giving money away or a
thought of providing money for a charity or for a
cause is one thing, but to actually support it and
to be intelligent to have knowledge behind it as a
completely other thing. So why do you think or who
(25:16):
do you think is kind of pushing these buttons for
these athletes? And who do you think is steering the
ship for them? A good question and it's easy answer.
They're insulated by yes people, and these yes people want
to our only focused on perception. And again I go
back to Black Lives Matter. If a small fringe organization,
but they have control social media and they dominate the conversation.
(25:41):
To answer your questions, these athletes are misguided by yes
people who surround them and they provide them with advice.
In my opinion, bad advice to make sure they look good.
But from a substance standpoint, a substance standpoint, nothing, I'll
give Bna. Let me give Lebron James credit on one issue,
(26:03):
one issue which should be something that all these athletes
they really want to do. Something he created that I
promise school. That was powerful. I used to be a
school teacher for five years. I know the power of education.
Now now that was substance. And could you imagine all
these athletes making zillions of dollars, the pressure they have
(26:26):
on corporation and companies that want an endorsement. Okay, let's
improve the quality of the school. Let's go private schools,
private schools in the city of la That would be great.
We get rid of these horrible public school teachers, these
horrible unions. I used to be a public school teacher.
Who get rid of these unions who are nothing, are nothing,
to have only the interests of their own self interests
and not about the kids in minority areas. That's the
(26:48):
area to go. But hey, they're insulated by yes people,
and all these yes peoples are concerned about public perception. Period. Now, Leo,
you grew up and than California. You went to Guardina
High School. Craict me if I'm wrong on that. Um,
what was your first love? Were you a football guy?
Were you a basketball guy? Were you baseball? Like? Where
(27:09):
did you fall in love with first? Let me tell
you right now. First of all, I love sports more
than you guys. Okay, okay, that's okay right now. If
you're gonna say that, that means that Ben and I
love politics more than you. Let me tell you. I
want as I'm want to ask you a question. All
I wanted to do was become a short stop like
Moriy Wills. That's all I wanted to do in my life.
(27:30):
And and so baseball was my number one favorite old
time sport. And it then it transitioned to football in
the seventies with Brasshaw and the Steelers, and then it
transitioned in the eighties to Magic and the Lakers in basketball.
So I basically grew up loving baseball. And really I'm
(27:53):
really a three sports person Baseball, basketball, football, I like
the Olympics. I like track and feel the way. Let
me brag a little bit, because, like I said, I
love sports. On February first, February nineteen sixty seven, Mohammed
Alie fought a guy for fifteen round the Houston Astrodome.
His name was Ernie Terrell. I repeat, Ernie Terrell. Do
(28:16):
your research. That's my cousin. Oh my goodness, that's pretty cool. Yeah,
four guys. Yes, I love for I love boxing. Well.
See the reason why I was asking is this is
that you know, a few years ago I coached in Compton.
I actually coached junior college football Compton College, and part
of Major League Baseball's Inner City programs is that they
(28:36):
helped build a legit baseball diamond in the city of
Compton on Compton Compton's campus. A few days ago, Ian
Desmond of the Colorado Rockies had sent out a giant
post on a blog and put it on Twitter and
Instagram about what he grew up and what he felt
like and what he saw, what he experienced, and part
(28:58):
of it was the lack of engagement with black youth
in the game of baseball. Have you experienced that and
do you see that here in Los Angeles? Because when
do you think about baseball? At least for me, I
think about cal State Fullerton, I think Long Beach State,
I think UCLA, I think pepper DWNE, I think you
see Irvine even think Sandy was state. So it's a
(29:19):
hot bed for talent here in southern California. But do
you think we get enough here from the youth? I
think don't we get we have, you know, the Dodgers here.
I think we have the opportunities and the resources here
in LA I didn't. I don't feel that as something
that people of color are not made up or don't
have opportunities to pursue. I think it's I think it's
(29:42):
a hot bed of talent here. I think it's a
matter of choice, I think right now, but the choice
in southern California is basically football and basketball. But opportunities definitely,
definitely they exist for baseball and you know this pursuit
are you know, trying to recruit. I think it's the
issue is really the preference of the students in the community,
(30:05):
and they prefer basketball and football. But I do want
to say something on this topic. You know, I would
prefer if you ask me. And as much as sports
has gotten a lot of athletes out of the community
and have gone on to bigger and better things, you know,
if they're going to put a nice football still or
a basketball diamond in the community of color. Can you
(30:26):
improve the school again? The education aspect, you guys know
as well as I do. Athletics is a short term career.
And you know I'm practicing law. I could practice law forever.
I got twenty five years in the bank. I can
feel I can go out and teach right now. And
so I'm looking at and you guys know the percentages
of athletes who actually make it to make it to
(30:46):
the big time. We want to make sure these athletes
have an alternative to sports. And that's what Smith that
goes back to education again. Be sure to catch live
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Is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and
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Well and LEO following that, I mean, we've had the
war on police, which apparently is going on right now,
But what about a war on education? As you've said,
as a teacher, what would you What are a couple
of points you would throw out that need to be
(33:15):
done to improve the education in the inner city, in
the black community. What tangibly can these athletes do that
would make a dramatic difference. Thank you, NBA, lebron, Chris Paul,
all you guys on TNT and all these states. So
let me tell what you do. Give people of color choice,
(33:39):
I mean choice, not sell the kool aids that public
schools are great institutions. They're not. They're horrible. Don't get
me wrong. I went to a public school. But give
individuals a choice between public schools and private schools in
charter school make it competitive, give an economic incentive. This
(34:03):
is what I could imagine. I would imagine a high
school or elementary school, the faculty or professors, college professors.
I mean, it would just be amazing what you know
as well as I do. Kids can learn so much
at a young age. And that to me, Chris Paul
(34:23):
Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Lebron, Adam Silver, improve
the qualities of schools. Just challenge public schools. Drive that
unions out of there. I'm sorry, I'm being political. The
unions are just so detrimental to improving schools in minority areas.
That's number one. That's what I'm going to be pushing
(34:44):
for the rest of my life. Do you think it
hurts us or helps us that certain universities now are
are actually getting rid of the SAT I think I
think it's an insult. I love innerdised test and let
me tell you what I'm talking about. Yeah, I went
to UCLA Law school. I took the California State Bar,
the hardest bar in the country. Wait before you get
(35:07):
any before you get anything else, Leo, When you took
the California State Bar, how much did it cost then,
because I know it's over one thousand dollars now and
it's three days. Let me tell you, right, if if
memory serves me correct, it may have been anywhere between
three to four year dollars. And I may be wrong.
I just don't remember. But I took the California State Bar,
(35:27):
and this black man passed the California State Bar on
the first try, and and and and all. A standardized
test provised is a level of qualification and competency to
eliminate the SAT. To eliminate standardized test, it gives you
(35:50):
a level plane feel and trust me. And I took
this California State Bar thirty some nine years ago. And
so i'm i'm I'm against eliminating standardized test. And let
me just throw this out because it's gonna happen in California.
They're putting on the bill on the legislation UM just
(36:11):
to reinstitute affirmative action. Oh my gosh. I'm a civil
rights journey. I believe in equality, not preferential treatment. This
is not in nineteen sixty again, I got there. Also,
if NBA players build up schools in the inner city,
those those black and brown kids would be passing the
SAT becoming doctors and lawyers in great numbers. Yeah, and
(36:36):
I'm gonna go aheat. You mentioned your your relative there,
your cousin with Muhammad Ali. But some people great rail.
So if some people are comparing Colin Kaepernick to Muhammad Ali,
where are you on that? There's a Kaepernick's been turned
into a deity by certain factions. Where are you on
the Kaepernick story? Thank you for asking that question. Uh,
it is an insult to Muhamma Ali's family and everyone
(37:02):
who knows the accomplishments of Muhammad Ali to put Colin
Kaepernick to even in that category. That's that's an insult. Again,
I get the way I get to say that because
I guess my color shameful. Everyone should be able to
say what I'm saying if they feel that way. Now,
let's let me go on and explain why why I
say this this assumption. And let me tell you again,
(37:26):
there are bad police officers. Don't dispute that. But when
Kaepernick presentation of racial injustice among police departments, I don't
buy him. I don't buy. I don't know what his
motives was. He has a right to express his motives,
but I don't buy his motive that he was protesting
(37:47):
this massive across the nation police misconduct. We'll say it
in Chicago, La Baltimore. If mister Kaepernick listen to your podcast,
I'd like to talk to him about it. He is
a creature a public perception and his timing. He had
the perfect storm four years ago. He came out he
(38:07):
was a lone ranger. He's been he's been black ball,
which I think is wrong by the NFL. And then
the George Floyd situation. Guess what people did. Oh he's right, No, no,
he's not right, because what happened in Minneapolis was three
was one rogue police officer with three other knitwitch and
(38:29):
they murder a black man. But guess what the public
perception is. It's nineteen sixty all over again. And everybody said, oh,
Colin Kaepernick is right. No, Colin Kaepernick is still wrong.
But you know what, he's a big man, naw, because
he just points to George Floyd and said, look, see
I was right. And when Goodell said, oh, black lives matter,
(38:53):
well again, there was a black retired captain in Saint
Louis who was murdered. To send me a pawn shop.
I didn't see Colin Kaepernick there. I didn't see Al
Sharpened there. I didn't see Black Lives Matter there. But
he's his life. He's a black man. See that's that's
the hypocrisy of all this. And Drew Brees, if you're listening,
(39:16):
take back your apology, Well absolutely, I agree with you
on that. I think the apology was ridiculous. But Leo,
what about Lebron? We want to go back to Lebron
because some people around his circle are saying, this is
a future politician, this is a guy that somebody could
run for president. You're in the political world. How do
you think he would do as a politician Lebron James.
(39:39):
I think there's there's two key elements to being a
good politician. You gotta have a good heart where people
really believe that you care about them. You got to
have a good head. And I think Lebron James has
a great heart, and I think he needs to have
(39:59):
some you know, I told you he was insulated with
a lot of yes people around him. People were interested
in perception. But he needs to expand his inner circle
with people to keep him inform of facts, information and
come up with a position because you know, I would
(40:21):
disagree with Michael Jordan twenty five thirty years ago he
said demographs Republicans both by nikes. Now, I think there's
a place for athletes if they want to pursue the
political ram, but just don't do it based on your
brand name. Learn the facts, educate yourself because you have
people who will follow you because of their association by
(40:44):
watching you play sports. So I think Lebron James has
a tremendous potential a lot of upside if he goes
to political route, but surround himself with people who have
his best interests at heart and what he wants to
accomplish at heart. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
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(41:08):
Search f SR to listen live. And Lee's going to
ask you a question on that note, because Lebron and
some of the other stars in the NBA are forming
themselves a voting rights group. If you're the commissioner, Adam Silver,
who has been progressive, it has actually looked for for
ways to to push the push the envelope a little
(41:30):
bit and to get out there into the into the communities.
What do you do and how do you as as
commissioner the NBA. I know it's a it's a it's
a tight tight walk because you're obviously do one's best
for the league, what's best for the owners, but also
you're gonna look out for your players too. So when
you have, like you said, an insulated group like this,
(41:51):
some might perceive that as Lebron's just getting people that
want to follow him to the voting you know, to
the voting ballots. Um, how do you advise these guys
then if they don't have the kind of pushback that
you were offering for other individuals that challenge you. I think,
first of all, Silver, you're right, has a very tight
(42:12):
rope to sort of walk. Remember he's employed by the owners.
They hire him, and I think Silver has a lot
of credibility. Donald Sterling situation, I think he has a
lot of credibility as far as being decisive, also having
the listening ear of the player. But you know, this
is a line that he has to draw and the
players have to understand what their role is. The NBA
(42:36):
unlike the other leagues, and you guys would probably agree
with this. I hope is that it is player dominated,
unlike the NFL, where the owners control. So there is
a position that Adam Silver and the players reps with
Lebron and Chris Paul, and they have to work for
the total betterment of not only what the NBA stands for,
(42:59):
but this idea of going beyond sports into other areas.
I have a problem with that. Yeah, and Leo, I
guess we'll leave you on this. I saw the other
day that President Trump retweeted a video that you were
in the other night on Fox that I know Trump
is very controversial. Obviously, that's pretty cool, though, to have
the President of the United States tweet that out. How
(43:21):
did that feel? I was? I was, I would listen
let me. I was, first of all, very happy. I
think what I said in the tweet that the video,
I believe. I believe that you know, I love this country,
and I think that there's been a lot of pandering
going on. And what bothers me is that a lot
(43:41):
of people are manipulating, exploiting the George Floyd situation. For
the President of the United States to retweet something that
I participated in about this country was a great honor,
and I think the president right now is a person
trying to establish law and order in this country, and unfortunately,
(44:01):
because we're in a political season, he's not any help
from the other party. And I think that creates a
very unusual election this upcoming year. And I think that
we had the pandemic, the riots, the loss of the
great Kobe Bryant. This has been one of the most
unusual years ever in my life. And we still have
about four or five months left. Absolutely, Leo, thank you
(44:24):
for your time. Big fan. Love hearing you on the radio,
seeing you on TV, and continued success. And man, I
want to say this, thank you very much because I
love sports and just to talk about sports, politics and life.
This is probably one of the I really enjoyed the interview.
Thank you very much for having me, Leo, Thanks for
coming on with us. Appreciate it. Take care of have
(44:45):
a good day, get right to the romance and find
the way to wow this Valentine's with one hundred of
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(45:06):
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com slash tune in
Host
Ben Maller
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