All Ball - Avery Bradley's Mixed Messaging; Maryland HC Mark Turgeon on Learning Under Larry Brown, Roy Williams, Bittersweet 2020 B1G Title

In this episode, Doug explains why he thinks the NBA's Disney World bubble plan continues to look like a bad idea, and why he he's struggling to understand Avery Bradley's mixed messaging for not wanting to play when the NBA season resumes. He's also joined by Maryland Head Coach Mark Turgeon to discuss playing at Kansas and coaching under Larry Brown and Roy Williams. He also looks ahead to how he plans on continuing to bring Maryland back to prominence. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts!

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Episode Transcript

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your free digital marketing trial today, visit constant contact dot com. Hey,
welcome in. This is All Ball and it's an Alla
basketball podcast. I'm your host, Doug Gottlieb. Thank you so
much for downloading, subscribing rating. Our numbers continue to jump in.

(01:48):
We're really proud to be part of the HERD podcast network.
Quick reminder if you love all sports, and we do
do a bunch of basketball, we also do football and
occasionally baseball. He's nu go aheads finally getting back on
the baseball field. You can tune into The ug Gotlip
Show daily three to six Eastern time, twelve to three
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, the I Heart Radio app,
or wherever you download podcast. You can download the Doug

(02:09):
Gotlieb Show podcast as well. So Whop is back? We're
like a month out and my guest today is Mark Tursion.
Now it's not NBA guests, we will throw some more
guests out you and I think you will love it.
But uh, we're talking to Turs a lot about kind
of his upbringing as a player and a coach, growing
up at Topeek, Kansas, playing for Larry Brown, coaching with

(02:29):
Roy Williams, and then becoming a head coach in his
own right. Kind of the the juxtaposition of of those
two coaches and those two styles is is fascinating to me.
But before we get to Turs, and I think you're
really gonna enjoy the the the the interview, let me
let me give you just a couple of thoughts about
the NBA getting back underway in Orlando. I've said it

(02:49):
before on TV, on radio, and I think on this podcast,
I am not a proponent of the bubble idea. I
think it's one of those Hey, two and a half
months ago, this was a great idea for two and
a half months ago. But as time goes on and
people start to go out and about there's a reason
so many people are popping up and testing positive for
COVID nineteen because we're no longer under quarantine athletes are

(03:12):
not at a great risk. The just that the numbers
don't tell you. And if you're going to have them
away from their homes, which you can, it provides them
not you know, seeing their parents or you know, some
of their loved ones or whatever. I mean, Look, there's
ways to do this at home sites like baseball is doing.
I don't understand what basketball is doing. Baseball obviously not

(03:32):
a contact spoard. Basketball is a contact sport. But I
feel like the quicker you get back, the more we
could have been treating guys and getting them through this,
and and and you know, now you run the risk
of players coming down with COVID if they can come
down with COVID nineteen while they're they're throwing a complete loop,
complete wrench into what is a weird plan. Additionally, you're

(03:54):
going down to Disney World, which as of now, the
plan is for the place to be open with the
exception of where the basketball bubble exists. That that strikes
me as odd. Um you know do I think players
have to be around their families, and many of them
have young, young families. If you could do it, that'd
be great. I think they're supposed to be in four
days quarantine, which is a lot. If you do it,

(04:15):
that'd be great. If you don't do it, you can't
do it. Is it that big a deal? Right? Isn't
that big a deal because you've been home for three months,
You've been around your children when normally you're in the
meat of the season. I know Janice was a big
proponent of having families there because he just had a baby,

(04:39):
but you know, like, look, if he had just had
a baby, he would have been getting ready for the
NBA Finals anyway, Like that's kind of poor planning. It
just is. And as for Avery Bradley, I I don't
agree with the idea of of trying to trying to
have social just us and trying to find ways to

(05:02):
donate your time and instead of playing basketball because basketball's distraction.
I don't agree with that at all. I think it's
an argument which I'm willing to nod my head and
want to listen. But then when I look at him, like, no,
that's not really the best way that you can get
but you have your voice heard is to play in
an NBA championship, isn't it. I know. Yeah, by the way,

(05:22):
use all the money that you make or whatever, amount
of money you make and donate to causes and then
you're gonna have a lengthy off season at some point.
So I I don't And and the problem with David
Bradley's thing is not just that he's doing it for
social justice. He's also saying, oh, yeah, by the way,
my six year old kid has respiratory issues and he

(05:43):
can't go, so we're not gonna go. Like which is
it is? Are you blaming your kid or you blaming
social injustice? Because because you're splitting votes by saying both,
no matter how real it is, I think he's kicking
away a golden opportunity. And look, he has a player options,
so it's not like there's anything the Lakers can do
if they don't want him back. But it would be very,

(06:06):
very awkward to have him back next year considering what
they have to do defensively at the positions that he guards.
I Lou Williams in the Western Conference finals is unguardable,
Like man, I wish we had somebody who is a
great guard, perimeter defender. Yeah, what I've been Avery Bradley,
He's at home because a six year old kid from
Austin can't make the trip like what, your kids can't

(06:28):
make most trips. This one's just longer than others. So
so look, I'm gonna call it a bullshit here on
on Avery Bradley, like you partnered up with Carrie Irving
and said that social injustice you think think that this
is a distraction to play basketball, Like, if that's your
sole reason behind not wanting to play for the Lakers,

(06:49):
thinking that's more important, I'll dismantle that in a second, um,
And I greatly disagree with you. Look, you're allowed to
have all of these opinions, and I'm allowed to tell
you I disagree with your opinion, and I think I
feel like you're you're wrong in this. But whatever, if
that's your sole reason, why are you throwing out that
you're six year old won't be able to Like the
idea you're six year old was for people don't know

(07:11):
the rules are when your family flies there to Disney,
they had to be quarantined for four days. Now if
it's quarantine within like your hotel room or you're sweet
or whatever, four days with you know, six year olds
as oldest, so he's got younger Like that sounds a
lot of people aren't bringing their kids especially right away.
They're not so eventually their kids may visit them, and

(07:33):
they may, they may, they may less than these rules.
But the idea that you're going to be able to
achieve social justice by not playing, I can't help you.
I'm not sitting here saying that that. And and this
is a big thing because I think sometimes when you

(07:54):
portray things and you parachute in you're like, whoa, it's
got like dishes, she died is whatever. I'm I'm somebody
that like anybody's against racism, against police brutality, and thinks
that there needs to me. I think there's got to
be a lot of change in the training. Um. You know,
some of the laws, some of the drug laws are

(08:15):
one of the reasons that the numbers have been so skewed. Um,
I believe against black people and why they're the incarceration
level is so high. There's some other things within the
black community which I've read. I haven't lived, so I
can't necessarily express my feelings on because they're not my feelings.
But I look, there's a need for reform. There's need

(08:37):
for reform. All of that said, you also need continuing
education and you need money for these things. And if
you're as passionate as many of these men who are
super successful are. Look, I don't want to tell them
how much money they gotta give, but you really want
to help. The best way to help is to win
a championship. Make it part of your championship, and make

(09:00):
it part of your social media feed. You're able to
broadcast yourself at any moment on your social media feed.
You're able to broadcaster iver you want in any other media,
like we'll take any of these guys from their hotel
rooms or whatever. Like. You have a way bigger platform
and a chance to make a change, not just financially,
but also with that platform if you're playing, not if
you're staying home. And then he's not even saying he's

(09:23):
staying home. He's like, well, it's one of the reason
I'm staying home. Plus I got a six year old.
They can't make the trip, Like, come on, man, and
you got limited maybe one chance ever to win a championship.
Now he's got a player option with the Lakers. Yes,
he's gonna pick it up, but you know, how does
that work if one he gets replaced by somebody better

(09:43):
of J R. Smith, or if they go out and
get Darren Carlinson and they perform, well, do they even
want to back? Or two? Do you want a guy
back who basketball wasn't the most important thing. I look,
I understand that we're in this time when you're more
than an athlete, you're allowed to be. But one of
the things Lebron James says, and he's right, is keep

(10:05):
the main thing, the main thing. The main thing is hoop.
That is the avenue that will lead you to these
off ramps of post career success. These guys aren't keeping
the main thing, the main There's nothing wrong with being
a great basketball player, being one of the best hundred
two hundred basketball players on the face of this earth,

(10:25):
and then using that and using success and chance player
for an NBA championship for all the things that you
want to change in the world. I don't think this
is a great strategy, and I think it's really a
bad strategy to add in the kid thing. What more
to that upcoming, But first let's get to the head
coach of the Maryland Terrapins who won the Big Tent
but didn't get a chance to show the world how

(10:46):
good they were in the Big tenor n c A tournament.
Here's our conversation with Mark Tursian And we're live here
outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the And
there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom is
coming off the front door, strong with a double arm
kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is
bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed.

(11:09):
Diapers and toys are everywhere. But Mom has just nailed
the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now
the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten,
has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the
bag clothes and they're off, But looks like Mom doesn't
realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of

(11:29):
the car and there it goes. Oh, that's a shame
that mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff.
Just nailed the big stuff, like making sure your kids
are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes.
Learn more n h T s a dot gov slash
the Right Seat. Visits dot gov slash the Right Seat,
brought to you by NITZA and the ad Council. Look

(11:51):
for your children's eyes to see the true magic of
a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look
and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of
a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see
treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could
lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide.

(12:12):
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring a Discover the Forest dot org brought to
you by the United States Force Service and the AD Council.
Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic
of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You
look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face
of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They

(12:34):
see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that
could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide.
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring a Discover the Forest dot org brought to
you by the United States Force Service and the AD Council.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
gott Leap Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon

(12:57):
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio in the Heart Radio whip.
Let's welcome him in. He's He's Mark Tertian, the Pride
of Topeka, Kansas. UM first basketball memory is what oh gosh? Um.
Probably playing in the driveway with my dad, UM and

(13:18):
my brother was my first basketball memory. My dad was
a good player, and he trouble between his legs, and
we were always trying to dribble like him and chase
chase the ball between his leg and stuff. So I
was probably you know, three or four years old remembering.
You know, back to then you had four siblings, your
brother older younger than you, older brother, older sister, and

(13:40):
then two younger sisters. Okay, so your older brother, what
was your guys relationship like, like was he what was
he your idol? Did? Was he mean to you? Like?
What was what was that like? Growing up? I think
it was a little bit everything. I think he was
an idol, um, you know, because you know, he wanted
to do what he was doing. Um. I think he

(14:00):
made me tougher because he was at times mean, But
I'd like to hang around his friends. His friends were
two years older, and we were always out, you know,
playing some type of sport. UM. So I think it
kind of helped me grow up quicker, be a little
bit tougher, um, you know, throughout the process. But yeah,
always trying to do you know what he did. And

(14:21):
he was always real protective of me too. I remember
that as a child, he was always looking after me
and making sure I was in good shape. When was
that was there a moment when you're like, all right,
basketball is my gym because you weren't you weren't big.
I mean you're not big now. You weren't big growing up.
I'm just was there a moment you're like, this is
what I want to do? Yeah? I always liked it, um,

(14:43):
you know, like you said, I only phrased, I always
loved it. I just always remember playing basketball all the time.
Whenever I could, I was outside playing basketball. But probably
didn't you know, I was pretty young, pretty good at
a young age. And then everybody to pass me by
and grew past me, and I think it was probably uh,

(15:05):
towards the end of my junior high school, I was like, okay,
maybe I have a chance to play college basketball. Um.
And I grew a little bit, which helps, and a
good team and I was always a very confident kid. Um.
But I was also realistic and then probably towards the
end of my junior I realized I had a chance
to play college basketball. Oh okay, so your senior year.

(15:25):
Did you commit before your senior year? After your senior year?
Noth Doug, I wasn't recruited. So I was when I
committed to Kansas. I was five eight and a half
a d twenty five pounds. Um, it was after my
senior year. We had won back to back state championships. Uh, k,
you would let Ted Owens go and hired Larry Brown.

(15:48):
So the timing was, you know, really good for me.
He like, you know, he was shorter, like shorter point guards.
Thank god they had fifteen scholarships back then instead of
thirteen that they have today. So I was the fifteenth
Hollar ship and um, it was more. It was more
kind of a one year walk on deal. But the
game miss scholarship, Uh, just to kind of proved proved
myself and of course everything worked out all right. We'll

(16:11):
get to the college in a second. Can you mentioned
back to back state championships at Hayden High School? Uh?
And I think, as we've come to learn from the
president that that Kansas City at least where kemper Is
is in Missouri? So where is the is the state
championship played in Topeka? Well, they were spread out all
over ours within Salina, Kansas, like I've played. I played

(16:32):
at the Civic Center several times. I actually played for
the Salina Rattlers in the ib A for like a week. Wow. Yeah,
So we used to fill that building. You know, we
had a great following when we played, we played, we'd
fill that building up for our state championship games. And uh,
it was a good run. It was. We had a
lot of fun. We stayed at the Red Roof in

(16:54):
right on the highway there and uh, I think we
had four in a room and and uh we just
you know, lot of fun. We are we expected to win.
We had good teams and great coach and and we
expected to win and we were able to do it twice. Okay,
so three you show up on Kansas at Kansas as
basically like a recruited walk on. You know, we'll give

(17:17):
you a scholarship or whatever. Um yeah, uh what what
do you And obviously you know growing up at to
peak and for people don't know, it's uh, you know,
just about thirty forty five minutes I think from Lawrence,
if I remember correctly, is that accurate? Said? Yeah, drive
away to my dorm room was twenty eight minutes. Okay,
so you you walk into the fog. Um. What what

(17:40):
do you remember about your your first moments as a Jayhawk. Yeah,
so my first day of pickup we were actually at
Lawrence High School because camp was going on. And I
don't know if remember Tony Guy. Tony Guy was a
guy from Baltimore, was a great player, Uh at Kansas.
He was about six five, have six six, and I

(18:01):
end up guarding him in the pickup game and uh,
he was destroying me. And uh, you know, the first
day goes by. I remember calling my dad and I said, Dad,
this isn't gonna work. Man, I don't belong here. These
guys are so much better than I am. And uh,
he said, just stick with it and see what happens.
And you know, we had great games and a lot
of NBA players in town, a lot of former players

(18:22):
in town, a lot of great players on our team.
So he got real competitive. He lost, you had just said,
you know, for thirty forty five minutes, so he always
were trying to win. But I got a lot better
that summer, got a lot bigger, a lot stronger, and
and uh but I just remember being overwhelmed that, you know,
first few weeks. Sure, sure, I mean I that was
really more practice for me. You were like, it's you're

(18:42):
making it sound sound like you were Robbie Benson in
One on one? Do you remember that movie? Yeah? Yeah, No,
practice was the thing, you know, first, you know, I
realized that it wasn't high school anymore. Coach Brown was,
you know, he'd get after you and practice. We practiced
a long time. But I pretty much knew, um, you know,

(19:02):
once practice started that I was one of the better
point guards on the team. It was just whether I
was going to get the opportunity and uh, you know,
but I didn't know where I stood until our first
game we played. Our first game was against the five
Slam and Jammah, yeah that lost the year before, the
North Carolina State and Jim Valvano in the championship game

(19:25):
and we're on CBS Sports, and I just remember I
was sitting on the bench. I was mad at coach Brown.
He started ted Boyle or Jeff Geo one of them,
and then brought the other one in before me and
then finally gave me a chance. I was so pissed
when I went in there, I wasn't scared and uh
and played well. Uh and then everything kind of went
went great after that, uh for me that freshman year.

(19:48):
But uh we got rock pretty good that day. So
it's kind of but you know, I get to play
against Cheam the Dream and some really good players and
realized what it was like at that level. So, um
was it? Like? What were because five Sanma Jimmy has
become kind of this mythical, you know, the greatest team
to you know, to not have accomplished obviously the year

(20:08):
before was the was was the NC State thing? What?
And that was an old hop heines before they just
obviously recently redid it. What was what was that team? Actually? Like, well,
Drew Directler was gone. Um, so it was Alvin Franklin
and a team and a came the Dream and I
don't remember who um the other players were in that

(20:32):
terrible umcu. I was worried about the point guard. H
But no, they were talented and they were good and
they whipped this pretty good. And it was it was
coach Brown's first game. And to be honest with you.
That was my first flight on an airplane, UM, flying
down to Houston for that game. So there was a
lot that happened to me. Uh. And then of course

(20:53):
it was on national TV, CBS Sports. But they were good.
I don't know what they did that year, if they
made it act to the final four or or you know,
I wish would have been four. But they were a
good team. They were much better than us at the time. Okay,
that team went thirty two and five, They went fifteen
and one in the Southwest Conference. They won the Southwest

(21:15):
Conference tournament, and they lost to Georgetown in the final
four in the national championship game. Okay, they're pretty good. Yeah,
they're pretty We ended up we end up finishing second
in the Big Eight. But you won the Big Eight tournament, right, tournament? Yea?
You every won the Big Eight tournament beat Oklahoma. UM.
And you know, they had a great team, Wymond Tisdale

(21:36):
uh and them, And we played really almost perfect game
to beat them. And uh they had beat us about
two weeks earlier in overtime in allen Fieldelf to win
to win the league. And they cut down the nets
in our building and that didn't sit well with us obviously,
so we were pretty part up playing in the championship game. Okay,
so I guess the biggest question I have, and I've

(22:00):
I've watched my dad actually grew up playing ball with
with Coach Brown. I've gotten a chance, you know, when
he was at SMU to cover Coach Brown, but you
know him better having coached with him, having played for him.
Uh when I mean like, look, I love Ted Owens.
He's always super kind to me. He's an absolute gentleman.

(22:21):
But to go from Ted Owens to the very next
year finishing second and winning the Big Eight championship, this
is this is obviously before you guys got got Danny Um.
What what was it? What? What did what was it
about Coach Brown that he was able? Uh? For example,
A Kansas turned around so quickly. Well, we had good
players one. But I'm not gonna say anying away from

(22:43):
coach Coach Brown because we were young. Calvin Thompson, Ronnie
Kellogg and Gregg Driling, We're all on our final four teams.
Their senior years were sophomores, and they had terrific sophomore
years as a senior in Kelly Knight. But I think
what coach did that year would be adapted to his talent,
and we played a lot of his own and that
enabled me to play at my side. But uh, he

(23:06):
worked out. He you know, had people come in helping
teach zone. He didn't like to play it, but he
was just a teacher. You know. He was relentless and
individual improvement. He was relentless and one more time, let's
do it one more time, let's run three down one
more time, which meant, you know, fifteen more times. Um.
And he was just relentless and that approach um. And

(23:30):
you know because you were so drilled, I mean, you
were just shell drill was an hour. You know, you
know how tough shell drill is and shell drill was
an hour, and it was it was just he was
just relentless in his approach that way. Um. And then
you know he would carry you down and build you
back up, trry you down, build you back up, and

(23:52):
then he had made individually he'd meet with you and
you'd make you still at a million bucks. So that
was his way of keeping your confident. But when in
the middle of it, you really don't really understand his
expertise because you're just like a grind and mixplay. You're
trying to survive his practices. But then as you get
a little bit older and get to watch him and

(24:12):
you know as a g a and then you know,
being with him with the sixers, you got to see
that he was just his mind was remarkable. Um. And
the thing that made him special, Doug is he loved
the scrimmage. So we would do drills for hours and
shell drill and then we had scrimmaged for you know,
an hour and a half, put ten minutes on the

(24:32):
clock last one and you know, I met me, we're
going to do four more those, right, And we'd go up,
back up back, like six crossing, which was a lot
for him, not to stop it, and he could remember
three or four things from each crossing, um and and
correct well and it's meant And he stood there for
a while and that's why practices are long. But his

(24:53):
mind was incredible. I think it was almost a blessing
and a curse because he could see so much um.
You know, and when you have to do earlier, especially
early season, when you're working with ten twelve guys, trying
to get him ready to see both sides, the offense
and defense, not you're working on offense, so being able
to see what the defense is doing, and he was
a master at that in his mind was incredibly sharp. Yeah. Um, okay,

(25:18):
So that year Danny is at Lawrence High School, right,
and Ed is on the staff. You know, like I've
I've read the season on the brink, so I know
what it was like for Damon Bailey to be coming,
you know, as like an eighth grade or whatever to Indiana.
What was that like to have Danny Manning kind of
waiting in the wings at camp? Like this is before

(25:40):
the recruiting, you know, recruiting became what it is today.
What what what do you remember about knowing that Danny
Manning was coming from Lawrence High School? Well, obviously we're
excited because Danny was a great player, but we're more
excited because's got to know him, and he was a
great kid and he was very humble. Um, what's kind

(26:02):
of a reluctant star to be honest with you, just
because you know, we had, like I said, Greg Drowling
played in the NBA, Ronnie Kellaw drafted Calvin Thompson, you know,
really good players, and so Danny kind of wanted to
take you know take his time, you know, growing into
the role, but you know, by the sophomore year he

(26:22):
was so terrific. So it was good. We knew we
had a bright future. That first class Coach Brown body
and brought in was actually the first one was me
and Chris Piper and Cetera Hunter who you know, we're
we were all afterthoughts and we all had pretty good
careers there. And then the next class was Danny Milton Newton,
uh shotgun Campbell out of St. Louis Rodney Hall was

(26:46):
really like top five recruiting class in the country, top
three or four or whatever. And you know, Danny and
Milt made a big rest of them really didn't um
uh make it because they had such good players, but
you know you could see it. We had Calipari R. C. Buford,
We had all unbelievable coaches, Alvin Gentry, guys that were

(27:08):
you know, gone on and done done tremendous things, uh
in our business. Um but uh yeah, we knew we
were always gonna have good players. And you knew you
couldn't relax in the summer because Coach Brown was gonna
really recruit well and you had to get better. Um,
you get Downe playing in seven. You guys have been
to a Final four, your team captain. You know you're

(27:29):
on the academic All Big Eight team. Like you're getting
like a cult hero there, right, And what what made
you decide to go into coaching? Well, it's kind of
a bittersweet moment. I'm sure you've heard great, uh, Doug.
I was sitting uh in Coach Brown's office after my
freshman year and I was up to about a hundred
forty five pounds, braces and acne all over my face,

(27:52):
and I thought I was pretty good. And he goes, Church,
what do you want to do? And I just broken
Darnell Valentine's assist record and he was a guy idolized
growing up. So I'm walking into this office thinking I'm
this great player, right, and he says, what do you
want to do? And I said, coach, come on, I'm
gonna play in the NBA. And he looked at me
and he says, Turk, you have no chance of being

(28:13):
an NBA player, he said, but I do think you
can be a pretty good coach. And I you know,
I remember, like my mouth pie fell wide open and
just like holy, this guy just went right at me.
Right between the eyes. And by the time I walked
out of that office, I knew I wanted to be
a coach, and I wanted to coach in college, and
we kind of approached it that way. In the next

(28:35):
three years. Um, whenever I was on the bench, I
sat uh in the first seat so I could watch
him coach and listen to other coaches, and you know,
I'd come early to practice and and just be a
part of different things. So I knew after my freshman
year that I wasn't an NBA player, and I started
thinking about being a coach. And it was really the
best advice that that someone could give me at the time,

(28:58):
because I was pretty caught up in myself and with delusion,
delusional that I had a chance to plain the MBA,
get right to the romance and find the way to
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(30:04):
ad Council. What grows in the forest trees? Sure you
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Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover
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States Forest Service and the ad Council. Um. Okay, so
you get done playing How quickly did the job get
like was it was? There was there a discussion over it.
Did you just move into an office? Like what was
the process like of finishing up and then becoming a

(30:49):
coach on the staff? And that was hard. It was
really hard to become a coach and you know and
not want to hang around the players and not be
with the players. And um know, we had a huge
staff if you can look back at pictures, so um
I think we had three guys in my position at
the time. It was John Robic, who's with Califaria Kentucky Uh,

(31:12):
David Moe, Uh, Doug Mo's son, and myself And we
were all kind of like g A and we had
just taken over for Bill self and Billy bay Oh
and guys like that, Tommy Butler's and Rt. Buford's and
and so um I didn't really have a lot of
responsibility except to come to practice. We we did some melouts,

(31:35):
we did some things. I was pretty immature at the time.
Um I just remember Coach Brown, you know, just helping
coach the JB team and going to practice and doing
a little bit of office work each day. But there
was a tremendous year one because we won the National Championship.
But I could sit back with no pressure of being
a player, or no pressure of really not having much

(31:57):
responsibility with the team except to watch and learn, you know,
and I do drill as I helped with camps. I
helped set things up, but it wasn't like they depended
on me every day. So it was really just kind
of a gap year for me just to to watch
and learn and take notes and remember. And I remember

(32:18):
that year like it was yesterday. Um, all the things.
We are probably a lot better than I do the
games that I played in, just because I was just
more relaxed and I can remember, I write things down
as we went through it. But uh so it was
kind of a gap year learning and and uh but
just a tremendous uh it was an unbelievably fun year

(32:39):
for me going from a player. Okay, so let's let's
let's let's challenge you on your knowledge of that year,
because it was really an interesting year. Right There's you
played Kansas people forget you played Kansas State four times,
right and and and you played the national championship game
in Kansas City against Oklahoma, also from the Big Eight.
And so you played, oh you three times I was

(33:00):
a year where, you know, without any question, that was
the best league in the country. But you guys had
this you know, you started off losing what the your
your two games in Hawaii, uh, and then you had
a really bad stretch I think to begin the Big
the Big Eight. What what was that season like and
why was it so up and down? Well, first of all,

(33:22):
we had we had a lot of new guys we
were trying to to bring into the fold. I mean
we saw Chris Piper, Danny Manny Milton, and Kevin Pritcher
was a sophomore. And we really didn't have a point guard.
Um Otis Livingston came in, and Otis has done really
well and and and and the you know business that
he's in now. But uh in our chemistry wasn't very good.

(33:46):
So we had a lot of players, there wasn't a
lot of separation. We didn't really have a true point guard.
And I'm not sure exact day, but we had some
changes in our roster. We had some guys that were
on the team that were no longer on the team.
We brought some football all players on the team, Marvin
Maddox and some guys that were just Clinton Normre just great,
great solid people that helped us win. So at one

(34:09):
point we were twelve and eight, um and we just
lost I think at Oklahoma State, and I remember sitting
at the front of the bus and I said, coach,
because Coach wanted me to red shirt the year before
he was having trouble getting a point guard. And I
just didn't know it was the right thing for me
to do. And I didn't do it. And I said
something like, Coach, I should have read shirted, and he said,
no tours. We'll be fine, we'll be fine, We'll be

(34:31):
all right. Richard's coming along, and they moved him to the
the point, we're gonna be fine. We're planning our best
players now. And what he did was this, he killed
these He killed these guys, man, I tell you. We
started we started practice every day with shell drill. We
go for an hour of shell drill. And it was
really it was really hard for me because I'm like,
I'm one of them still, right and and you know,

(34:55):
the losers would run the sixty four and then he'd
be like, that's not enough. We get back on. We
do it again. And I mean we went from twelve
and eight and uh, you know, we lost three home games.
We lost the Cake. I never forget. I was out
the night before. I was having a good year, and
I was out a bunch of k State fans, and
we had won fifty three or fifty five straight home games,
and and it's Mitch Richmond, and I'm like, all right, well,

(35:18):
we're gonna get fifty six tomorrow. When they came in
and beat us and and broke the streak um which
was started my freshman year. And uh, and we lost
the Duke at home in a close game, and we
lost to Oklahoma in a really close game. And we
got to play all three of those games, all those
three teams, and the Elite eight, Final four and National

(35:40):
championship games, but they're all close. Lost his game, and
so we were getting better, getting better, getting better, And
I'll just never forget. He did the same thing every day.
And then you know, the day before game, he worked
on press offense, he worked on zone off and it
would only be like seven or eight minutes. So he
just he had is so prepared um for everything. And
then he really loosened up him and Danny developed a

(36:04):
I don't know, I want to say love hate relationship,
but he allowed Danny to like coach the team a
little bit more. We were playing music on the bus,
We were we were really having a lot of fun
and we just got hot. Now we lost in the
Big Eight Tournament to K State in the semifinals. A
lot of guys were I could have this wrong. It
might have been my junior year, but we had a

(36:25):
lot of guys sick, and then we just we just
kind of caught fire. Um, there was you know, an
upset Vanderbilt upset. I think NC State as we uh,
you know, Murray State beat somebody. And it was just
one of these deals where it kind of worked for
us up until uh, the Elite eight and then we
play some you know, number one or top seeds, and

(36:46):
by that time and if you look at the scores,
dug and I know I'm talking a lot, but if
you go back and look at the scores, uh, sweet
sixteen game Vanderbilt, we're up like sixteen to four. K
State game was a hell of the game. But I
think we jumped on them the Duke game in the
final four, we jumped on them ten or twelve to nothing.
So all that shell drilled stuff that we were doing

(37:08):
was carrying over, and you know, guys were playing with
the confidence. Coach shortened his bench up until the National
Championship game, and he didn't you know, then all of
a sudden he played guys that hadn't played in two
or three games. The guys were playing with confidence, and
we were prepared and and uh, you know, I think
the first rounds in Nebraska, which was close to home,

(37:31):
and then you know, the second rounds of Nebraska, and
we went to Detroit and and we played out of
our minds in Detroit, and then we come home to
Kansas City and we were just terrific and maybe one
of the greatest, you know, one of the one of
the better, you know, top twenty National championship games ever.
Was the first half of that Oklahoma Kansas game. And
I believe it was fifty the fifty at halftime, and

(37:53):
just an amazing game. You know what it's amazing about.
Oh you in that game and you mentioned that, you know,
Mike Maddox got in h Lincoln Minor got got a
bunch of minutes, and and Keith Harris and Clinton Normore
and and they played played more midst of the National
Championship game. On the other side, and you know, people
for I don't know how much nationally people forget you know,
Billy Tubbs. They would score, they're running. They embraced the

(38:16):
three point shot before anybody else. You know, Dave Dave Seeger,
I think he made seven threes in the National Championship game, right,
And they had Mookie Blaylock and Stacy King and Ricky
Grace and whatever. Ricky didn't play particularly well, but they didn't.
I think they only played one guy on the bench.
They like, Yeah, it was crazy, which would be awesome
if you're a player, but it does go. It's kind

(38:37):
of counterintuitive to usually when you play fast like that,
you play more guys. Yeah, it was crazy because first
half we went we hadn't been running, and all of
a sudden, Coach Brown just like, let's go, man, and
we were running. And of course Oklahoma's playing into their hands.
But in the end it might have wore them out.
They had they had trific team. Um and I think

(38:59):
there's six man only played like eight minutes in the game.
Um uh. And then the second half, if you remember,
it was one of the best halftime speeches I've ever
ever heard, because you know, Coach Brown was a head
coach at Util when they lost to Louisville U with
Darryl Griffith in that group in the in the game
was in Indianapolis, and he says, I'll never forget After
the game, all the Loisville cars on the highways driving

(39:22):
back to Loisville borns honk and he says, we can
have the same thing tonight driving back to Lawrence, Kansas.
You know, it's r and night whatever, and it's fifty
to fifty, and you know, Danny, you're the best player,
you know, your best player on the floor, and you
can bring this home. And it was just I mean,
I remember it like I was, you know, yesterday, sitting
in that locker room and we just you know, we

(39:42):
were so fired up when it came out. And then
all of a sudden about this, I believe around the
eight minute market the second half, he put the brakes
on the game and he started to laying. He actually
started to laying with our big guys a little bit.
We had never practiced it. That's what was amazing about
Coach Brown. We didn't talk about it, we didn't do it.
We just did it in the game. And our guys talent, well,

(40:05):
we got and I don't know if you're losing control
of the game during that point, but coach got back
in control of the game and he got the game.
Because he likes, you know, the call plays late in
the games. I think he felt more comfortable dictating UH
late in the game. But it was just masterful coaching
obviously to win that game. UM. For somebody who did

(40:25):
not experience the Danny Manning era at not just the
Kansas and he had a he had a very good
NBA career, but of course the injury early on with
the Clippers, UH probably changed like his career trajectory. If
you were to describe to somebody who never saw him play,
like this is what made Danny Manning one of the
all time greats? What would it be? Yeah, I think

(40:47):
he's one of the top ten college basketball players ever.
So one he stayed four years. Um. You know which
kids just don't do today. Um, in today's world, Danny
would have left after his sophomore year, maybe after his
freshman year. Um. But when he was a great teammate.
He could handle the ball. He could shoot it back
then at six ten, UM, he could really pass it,

(41:09):
he could really handle it. Had a great feel and
can score left and right hand around the basket. And
Danny wasn't a great athlete. He was just smarter, uh
than a lot of players that he played. Again, and
I remember my senior year was his junior year, and
we were a sweet sixteen team, but we weren't nearly
as good as the uh you know, the year before
the six final four team of the eight eight championship team.

(41:31):
And you know, he would have twenty five and eight
at halftime, you know, his junior year, and I'd have
twenty five the whole big eighth season, you know what
I'm saying. And and he'd go into a half time
we'd be up twelve, and he says, Turg, I'm not
shooting the staff. I'm gonna work on my defense. So
I throw the ball into him. He throw it back out,
back in, he can throw it back out. And I

(41:52):
didn't want shot because Coach Brown would take me out
of the game if I shot. And so and finally
another team would come back a little bit, said come on, Danny.
He ended up with thirty seven, thirty eight, whatever it was,
whatever it took. Man, the kid, the kid was, he
was something else and and could score in a variety
of way and just had great touch from all over
the floor. Uh wait, so lb left and went to

(42:17):
the Sixers. You went with him, right? Is that my
remembering correctly that that was the or did you go
to or you went to Oregon first and then back
to the sixty. Yeah, he went to the Spurs and
then Roy Williams came and I stayed with coach Williams
for four years. A can okay, let me let me
start with let me say so Roy Williams inherits. You
guys were on probation the first year. I mean, and

(42:39):
the stuff you're on probation for is like some of
the most laughable stuff ever. But um, okay, so you
you you play for and coach with an all time
great and then here comes in Roy Williams, who um
you know from the Carolina family. Um, great pedigree, but
a very different style. What was what was it like

(42:59):
to said Roy Williams? Well, um, when I felt bad
for him when he got there, Um falling Larry Brown
and all the things we were going through. But you
knew right away. But he was remarkable recruiter um and
great unbelievable people's skills. You spent time with him, you
know how he is, and UM, he taught me a

(43:22):
lot of things that I needed to be taught. You know,
how to work in the office, UM, you know how
to recruit, Um, you know all the details to go
into it. And if you know anything about Coach Williams,
he's one of the most competitive guys I've ever been around.
And he he had a philosophy. He believed in it,

(43:42):
and um, he stuck to it, and he coached it
every day, and he coached hard every day. And the
guy just worked his ass off. I just remember all
the red eye flights. He's in California. You're just scrouting
a lot of guys. You'd come back, you'd fly the
Red Eye and come straight to work and and then he,
you know, have practice. And the guy was incredible. He's

(44:03):
still doing it today. And uh, his work ethic, Um,
his competitiveness. But he had a belief system and he
and he sticks to it, and he has a great
eye for talent and he can really really recruit and
he puts guys in position to be successful. And he
had the style of play. It's fun and kids like
playing it. So he was he was I wouldn't be

(44:24):
where I am, and I wouldn't be with either one
of them. Larry Brown taught me so much, changed my life,
gave me a chance of Kansas, and Roy Williams really
helped me understand this profession and you know what it
took to be successful in this profession. Okay, And I
don't want to get too far a fuel, but I
am fascinated by the recruiting angle of it because I'll
give you my perspective. I'm in Southern California at the time.

(44:47):
My dad is a you know, back then as a
travel team coach right before AU team and um, I
think Adonis Jordan's and Alonzo Jamison right to the two
of the to first Southern California guys. I remember coach
Williams to recruit and then it became kind of like
a pipeline. And his thing to all of us as

(45:08):
players was like he would come and whoever it was
that he wanted, he would evaluate. He would sit mid
court and you're like, wait, didn't they just have a
game last night? And he would sit like mid court
at a practice or at a slam and jam game,
and you know, like he looked perfect like hair looked perfect,
shirt looked perfect, and he wasn't. He wasn't gabbing, right,

(45:30):
He wasn't bssen, He wasn't grabbing guys. He was just
sitting there and watching and whoever he's watching, Like you knew,
whoever the best player in the gym was. That's who
Roy Williams wants. And it was you know, whether it
was Paul Pierce or what you know, like you go
or became Eric Chenowith, you know. But it started with
with with Alonso Jamison and uh and Adonnas Jordan's as

(45:50):
as as those are the first two I remember, Yeah, yeah,
Donna's was the one we had to get it. There
was another kid that he had committed end up going
to USC because of the probation. I can't remember. If
we don't get him, I can't remember. But the hell
of a player played in the NBA and Coach had
both of them, I think at the time. And if
you've ever sat down with Coach Williams one on one,

(46:10):
if you've ever sat in a conversation when he's recruiting you, um,
it's pretty amazing. Um. He's one of those guys that
can make you feel really good. Uh, but he's also
has always had a plan for you type thing, and
he just he was just flat out good at it.
He just outworked people. He had a motto, if you

(46:31):
want something bad enough, you better be willing to work
for it, and um, he wants that on his tombstone.
And he just never wants to be out work. And
so he just done in his whole life. If you
know his childhood, what he went through growing up, and
all the things he had to do to be successful
get into coaching, the things he did to be on
Coach Smith's staff, how hard he worked. Um, you know

(46:52):
it's like, oh, I used to watch to school six
miles up here on the snow. Well he actually really
did those things, you know what I'm saying. So he
he he really he's earned everything that he's gotten, and uh,
what enough. You know what? The thing is crazy, it's
the really good ones how easy they make it look,
because this ship is hard, man, It's it's hard touching,

(47:15):
it's hard, and it's hard for them too. Um. But
I think for majority of the years you look at
Roy wimathy Man, this looks easy for him. If not,
but he's that good where he makes it look easy
if I could be you and you could be me
for just one hour, if you could find a way
to get inside each other's mind. Walk a mile in

(47:37):
my shoes, Waco mile in my shoes. Shoes. We've all
felt left out, and for some that feeling lasts more
than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it
belonging begins with us. Dot org brought to you by
the ACT Council. Welcome out in the shoes. What grows

(47:59):
in forest trees? Sure you know what else grows in
the forest. Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our
family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this
and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The
forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near

(48:20):
you and start exploring. I discover the forest. Dot org
brought to you by the United States Forest Service and
the AD Council. Okay, so um, but um, but here
here's the now. Here's the analyst player want to be
coaching me or part time coaching me? Their styles are

(48:40):
so dramatically different, as you point out, Like Larry Brown,
you know you hadn't run all year, and you start
running in the National Champions Game. Then you slam on
the brakes and run delay game in the National Championship Games,
something you hadn't done even practiced all year, as opposed
to coach Williams, who look he's I could. I can
tell you exactly what plays he's gonna run with. I
know out of every first time out of each half,

(49:03):
he's gonna either trap the ball or trapped the first pass,
right like everyone. And he's gonna do what he does,
and he's gonna sub how he wants a sub And
it doesn't matter. What is that like from from you?
Because you're I I feel like in watching you coach,
you're much more like Larry Brown, much more instinctual feeling
each game differently. What's that like those the juxtaposition of

(49:23):
those two styles, Yeah, it's they are different. Um, they
both work, they're both Hall of famers. Um, so it
just shows you there's so many different ways to coach.
And that's really what I've learned. Um. You know, I
have a lot of great friends that are great coaches
in the business, and they all do it a little
bit different. But um, probably because I played for coach Brown,

(49:47):
I might coach a little bit more like him. Um.
I don't recruit as well as Roy Williams does or
haven't been the coach at Kansas or North Carolina. Um,
and so I'm new I coach against boy Williams. I
don't know. I'm like oh and six or oh and seven,
oh and eight against him. I knew exactly what he
was gonna do. I still couldn't beat him. Um. You know,

(50:09):
so they ran past keep him out of transition. That
is much easier said than done. Keep them out of transition,
much easier said than done. Yeah, they're terrific at that East.
I just remember, you know, Coach Williams, we'd be right
before half. We'd say two for one, he says, you know,
he never cursed. He said, Dad, gumming, I want three
for one. You know, he just wanted to run all

(50:31):
the time. And uh, but that's what makes him who
he is. He's a gun slinger, and he likes old
Westerns and uh, you know he's not afraid that you know,
the trap and do things. You're not afraid to take chances. Um,
and that's what's made him who he is. And and
uh he's won so many darned games. Um. Okay, give
me the real Tad Boil story. You guys played together.

(50:52):
He goes into the business world. You're you were you
were an Oregan, right, it wasn't at Jacksonville State. You're
an Oregon. And you talk him into becoming a coach.
What's what's the real We're gonna have him on. What's
the real story behind how it took place that you
got Tad Bull to become a coach in which he's
an outstanding one today he's terrific. What are you doing
in Colorado? I don't know if anybody will ever touch

(51:14):
what he's done. But so Tad and I obviously stayed close.
He was my captain. We hung out together in the summers.
He'd come k you watch practice. We just remain really
close friends and we still are to this day. Um.
And so he was he was coaching in high school
basketball and he was doing great. He was really successful,

(51:34):
and I think he took his team to the final
four and state in Colorado, and and uh, you know,
every time we talked, he's like, coach, you know, churge,
I'm happy, but I'm not real happy. He was making
six figures and uh, you know, the in the in
the uh mortgage business, not mortgage, but in the market
and handling people's money and Jose Ottoman I am, and

(51:59):
what he was doing really it was really successful. And
I was like, you know, we made fun of him, like, Dad,
you take six vacations a year, You're always on vacation.
Why would you want to coach? And He's just like, well,
down deep, I'm not really happy. Uh So family wise
for him, he wasn't married at the time. Uh, it
was a really good timing for him to uh come.

(52:19):
I convinced Coach Green to hire him. Uh, and you know,
the rest is history. Uh. I think Tad was with
me at Oregon for two years. Terry Green took the
Tennessee job. I went to the Sixers, Tad went with
him to Tennessee, and then I got to Jacksonville stage
job the next year, and then Tad was with me
for nine years or eight years, um, jack which saw

(52:43):
state so um. It's an amazing story. His climb from
northern Colorado to Colorado. You know, usually you go from
northern Colorado Colorado state to Colorado. And he kind of
jumped at jumped that, uh, you know, hooked there and
and I just remember trying to get him that job,
and and uh, you know, he's done amazing things. He's

(53:06):
he's really really smart. Um. If you can handle people's money,
you know, um, convince people to give you money to invest,
you can definitely convince people to give him your child
to coach basketball. So it was a natural progression recruiting
and what he did, uh in his business world. And

(53:27):
he's just an excellent coach. And to me, he's a
lot like Roy Williams. Uh, we're gonna do it this way. Um.
Now he had just you know, they you know, they
had just they switched ball screens and he's changed over
the years, but he believes in what he believes in.
He sticks to it and it's really worked well for him.
You you go to the NBA for a year. You've

(53:49):
been at under Jerry Green, You've been under Roy Williams,
been under and you played for him, but under Larry Brown.
You get your first head coaching job at Jacksonville State
in Alabama. Now that that move eighteen inches from assistant
to head coach? What what what do you remember about?
You know, you're you're running your first practice, You're your
head coach of your first team. Yeah, well I was

(54:11):
walking up to coach the JB team in Kansas, UM
when I was twenty three years old. I did it
for four years and so I got to run my
own practice. Then. Of course I had a couple of
the greatest teachers of all time, and Roy Williams and
Larry Brown, so I was prepared, um, and I felt
like I always I could always run a good practice. Okay, Now,

(54:34):
we started out two and oh at Jacksonville State, and
I thought I had I was like, this is easy.
I got a kid committed. The Hayes Twins Jarvison's Uh,
I want to say, Jonas Page, We're supposed to come
to play for me to end up going to Western Carolina.
We're two and oh, they're supposed to call me and commit,
and I'm like, and this ship is easy? Why do
I wait so long? Well, the Hayes twins end up

(54:54):
not calling to go to Western Carolina, and we lost
like our next eleven games in a row. I think
we were like two and eleven, and uh, I can't
remember exactly what it was. At some point we lost
eleven straight game and I realized how hard it was
and how recruiting was and establishing culture and all that
kind of stuff. So, um, you know, I feel comfortable

(55:16):
because I coached JV for four years coach game. I
was very comfortable, always had been very comfortable in the
coaching part. It was just you know, growing into the
administrative part, the recruiting part as a head coach, that
was all that was all new to me. And you know,
making the final decision who we're going to recruit, how

(55:37):
we're gonna recruit, how are they going to fit in?
That was different. But you know, we turned it around quickly.
You know, I think our second class, our first class
there we signed eight or nine guys. Um, it's kind
of feel late, and we got the job. Marlon Gurley,
Richard Willie. I thank god they were Garter Sports and
they helped us be somewhat successful. But that second year,

(55:59):
we actually lost the home game right at the end
of the year to win the league championship. Lost like two, Um,
we were to won the league and uh and you
know Lefty was coaching the Natalie at Georgia State. Stanford
was really good back then. Troy State had a really
good team that year and so it was a heck
of a competitive league. We we we turned it around

(56:20):
pretty quickly. H In our two years ter, you get
the Wichita job, and and you had a streak. I
think you lost your first eleven games right of your
at Wichita State. That was the same thing we started out.
We started out five and one. We beat Oklahoma State,
it was ranked tens. We beat our my first game
in which state was ky State. We beat them with

(56:41):
Jim wool Rich. And we're five and one, and our
only loss was to Washington with Bob Bender and a
real close loss. And we had all those games at home.
We had Kate stay at home, We at Oklahoma stay
at home, and we had Washington at home. And so
we started out five and one once again, I think
it was easy. And we ended up nine and eighteen.
And so we go four and whatever the rest of

(57:03):
the way and the rest of the way, and I
think we won two of our last three. And so
it was an amazing stretch in there where we couldn't
I couldn't do anything. UH couldn't win any games. We
weren't very good. We knew we weren't going to be
very good. Um, but we established a little bit of
a culture with some guys and and UH brought into

(57:24):
a really good recruiting class, and you know, I think
we went from nine wins to fifteen wins to wins
twenty one to twenty two to twenty three to twenty six.
We got better every year like our first six years.
But you know, I was a grind. It was. It
was tough and uh but I had a great a
d and I had a great president, had a great

(57:44):
staff and it was a lot of fun at a
young age. And remember that league we had. We had
Dana Altman, we had was that you had, well you
had Dermott, Yeah, great, great Dermot was at Northern Iowa, right,

(58:05):
and then we had the Salukis were good back then, right,
you had that was Drake Head, Tom David time coaches.
So you know you're able to cut your teet going
against just great coaching every night. I'll never forget that.
It was a tremendous coaching league. Um U in the
do for for brevity? Um how are you? You know?

(58:28):
What is it like for you talked about Danny Manning
Stags four years you've kind of downplayed your own recruiting prowess,
right because you've like, no, you're like your own worst enemy,
whether it's at Maryland or even at A and M
DeAndre Jordan for example, and others. It's that you recruited.
Is that now you get to the bigger jobs. You
signed some of these kids, but the process of holding

(58:49):
onto them is really really difficult. Um, how is it?
How has it changed you in terms of your recruiting focus,
how you put together a team, the ever changing landscape
of how long you're going to have the five star kids,
and and how much you go after the five star kids. Yeah,
we don't sign a lot of five star kids. Now.
I go after him and especially the local ones. I

(59:12):
go after him hard. Doesn't mean I get him. I
don't get all of them. A lot of kids haven't
stayed home, but we've kept our share. Um. You know,
we knew Jalen Smith was a two year guy when
we signed him. Bruno Fernando, I knew we wanted to leave.
We weren't really sure that after the first year. You
were kind of you know, like, yeah, he's gonna leave
after this year. He wanted to leave after his first year,

(59:34):
which would have been, you know, really bad for his career.
But guys like Kevin Herder, Uh, you know, he's not
even a top fifty player in the country. Uh, And
then he leaves after two years. Those are the ones
that kind of even though you kind of see it coming,
you're not really prepared for it. Those are the ones
that sneak up on you a little bit. We're in

(59:54):
the same boat with Aaron Wiggins. I think next year
Aaron Wiggins will have a tough choice, uh, just a
or leave. He was, you know, not even the top
fifty player coming out of high school in a lot
of pools. Um. But you know, because I coached in
the NBA, because I coached at Jacksonville State and which
to day when when it wasn't great, you know, I've
always been in the player development So it's something we

(01:00:16):
take real serious and try to get better at. But
you know, we're trying to look at really good force
for your players who were also trying to get the
great ones. You know, we want a league championship last
year because we had Jalen Smith. Uh and if we
didn't have them, we wouldn't have won the league championships.
So you need a great one. We would like to
keep the great ones home, um, you know. And and
and if we are, you know, a lot of those

(01:00:38):
guys aren't gonna be here all four years. Um, you
mentioned you in the league championship. You don't have the
Big Ten tournament, you don't have the n c A tournament,
and like, look, it's been a fight. It hasn't been
easy for yet at Maryland changed league. So there's the
lack of familiarity. Um, there's you know, no matter how
reasonable it is, there's the expectations of you know what

(01:01:00):
Gary Williams was able to do during a stretch of
competing for national championships. But that last year's team felt
like all right, you finally solidified your program as one
of the elite ones in the Big ten. But there's
there there's no payoff of of the victory lap in
the Big Ten tournament and in the in the n
c A tournament. What what does that do to to
your program? I know, to you like you're gonna fight

(01:01:23):
for regardless of of which. But what what do you
think having quarantine and cutting out the n c A
tournament did for your program? Specifically the momentum you guys
have generated. We'll never know. Um. The good thing is
that we get to hang a banner that we wanted.
I thought the best league in the country last year.
Now we shared it, but we're still on top. Um.

(01:01:46):
You know, my life to grind was always really short, um,
and for me to get where I am in life
has been a grind. But I like that. Um. Last
year is just another example of you know, one of
my great I'm only have maybe three or four teams
in twenty two years that could advance to a Sweet
six team beyond, and last year was one of them.

(01:02:06):
And it just adds to the grind of my life.
It is what it is, um. Um. I do know
the last six years since we joined the Big time,
we've been ranked almost every week of those six years.
We had some injury Uh. A few years back. Kevin
hurt his year, he was hurt, Dustin Jackson was hurt.

(01:02:27):
We had some injuries that prevented us from being a
really good team. But we feel like we've been a
staple in the top twenty. We feel like we're going
to continue to be that way. Um. Did it cost
us a little momentum, Yeah, it probably did. We didn't
have a great spring as far as signing players. UM,
were lost out on a lot of them. UM. You know,

(01:02:47):
under a classroom recruiting seems to be going well. Um,
But life the grinds it is. It's always It's always
been a grind for me. I wouldn't know if it
was easy. I wouldn't know what to do with it.
And so we'll keep building. I you know, we came
here to hopefully win a national championship. Will do it. Um,
you know ah, our fan base loves what we do. Um,

(01:03:11):
we do it the right way. We have good kids.
We graduate our kids thirty three straight seniors. We have
five with graduate degree. Yeah, I'm going on and on.
I love being the coach int Maryland. It's a great
place to live, great, great, great public university, one of
the great public universities and in the world, and so
we love it here. We just feel like we got

(01:03:31):
a lot of great uh days ahead of us and
a lot of great victories ahead of us. And hopefully
we have that one year where everything comes together and
we can you know, do what Gary and his his
staff didn't make a final four run hopefully the national
stamp ship. I got a couple of quick ones and
then we'll let you go. UM. A coach who have
we have yet to mention and you may have no

(01:03:52):
connections with him that you've either you've coached against or
you've watched him coach and you're like, that guy is
really good, and not enough people know that this guy
is really good. Oh man, Um, well, you know I
was always a Dane Altmans fan. Um. I always thought
he was terrific and he's proven that at Oregon. Uh.

(01:04:14):
You know I felt that way about Tom Davis. Um.
You know, I'm trying to think some young coaches up
coached against that are doing a terrific job. But you know,
most of the guys at my level are all terrific coaches. Um. Uh.
You know, Chris Beard obviously has proven that he's a
terrific coach in a short time, uh, you know doing it.

(01:04:36):
So I'm probably I'll probably think about five minutes after
me and I got that's by a great young coach. Again,
you mentioned how much of a grinder you are. You
have you know, you have three kids and your wife Anne,
So what was what was quarantine like at the Tursion household?
They were like they have been like who are you
and what are you doing here at dinner time? Yeah?

(01:04:59):
They um, yeah, there's a lot of things that went
on in my family. I didn't know about, um and
that I had to try to get corrected. UM. And
I know my youngest son was really hating that I
was home and it was ready for me to go
back to work. UM. But I think it was good because,
you know, even though we weren't allowed to go to

(01:05:20):
the office. UM, you know, coaches were crazy and if
we're not working, you know, we're not happy. And so
they were able to watch me do zoom after zoom,
phone call after phone call, you know, work. And then
i'd lose a kid that would probably should have got
um that clearly should have came to Maryland, but wants
to start somewhere else, um, you know, and they saw

(01:05:42):
the ups and downs with it. UM. A lot of
stuff that I left at the office are handled at
the office or it was on the road recruiting, and
so they got to live a little bit of recruiting
with me. And I think they appreciate how hard I
work in recruiting now. But it's been good too. It's um,
you know, just to realize all the stuff that that
are all my kids plays on my wife's plate. UM,

(01:06:05):
A lot of silver linings in the quarantine. Um, we're
already for it to end and get back to the
normal but there was a lot of silver linings. I
think just being around my kids more was the biggest positive.
All Right, we know you have to go. You've been
more than generous with your time. I can't thank you enough.
And uh and and just so you know, I wanted
to go to Oregon, but Jerry Green was like, I'm

(01:06:26):
never leaving Oregon. I got the greatest contract ever. I
get the stipulation of my contractor rolls over. I get
this big pay out at the end of my deal.
And then a week later he puts on the Tennessee
had and I was like, wait what. I was just
up there with Turs and Darren Kylish and they just
said we're gonna We're gonna roll with this thing. And
uh yeah, that was all a shock to all of us.
But uh yeah, we recruited you hardug I thought I knew,

(01:06:49):
I knew we had you. Do you do you know
the game? Do you know the game that I attended,
the Arizona Games only time we ever beat him? Yeah?
So friend, For people don't know, this was the Arizona
national championship team. They lost to Oregon at the Old Pit,
which is are arguably the greatest college basketball venue i've

(01:07:09):
i've ever seen ever been to, and you guys beat them.
I also remember obviously hoping with your kids for the
for the n c A tournament. Uh. Look, let's have
been great to me. I know you're busy. I really
appreciate it. And uh say hi the family and thanks
for joining us. Alright, alright, thanks. Be sure to catch

(01:07:29):
the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at
three p m. Easter noon Pacific. Wow, what a great
talk with Mark jan Um. You know, look, I I
just I hope you enjoyed getting to know what makes
him tick and what he's about and that dude is
like the ultimate grinder grinder and is his team was

(01:07:52):
rewarded or he was rewarded with it having a great
team this past year. It hasn't gone unnoticed in college
basketball at least in terms of basketball people, but nationally
probably went a little bit unnoticed. But he did a magnificent,
magnificent job. Um a reminder, listen to Doug Gotlip Show
daily three to six Eastern Toll three Pacific. More all
balls upcoming. We're gonna try and start pumping these things

(01:08:14):
out more readily. Don't forget to download, subscribe, and rate
these podcasts. Rating is actually good for us. Hopefully you
give us a good reading. And if you have any
questions or comments, you on the Facebook page, the Instagram
page um or you can tweet at me all at
Gottlieb Show at Gottlieb Show. In the meantime, thank you
for listening. This is all ball. Get right to the

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