All Ball - Former Wichita State Star Ron Baker Gives Exclusive Insight Into Gregg Marshall Player Abuse Allegations, Program Culture, Speaking Out

In this episode, Doug is joined by former NBA guard and Wichita State star Ron Baker discusses his path from rural Kansas to starring at Wichita State, the Shockers undefeated regular season, Final Four run, and opens up with exclusive insight into the good and bad of his experience playing under former Wichita State Head Coach Gregg Marshall, including his first hand recollection of Marshall allegedly hitting Shaq Morris in practice. He also talks about his NBA experience, playing in Russia, and what's next. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts!

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Episode Transcript

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M Hey, what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Gollivan. This

(01:11):
is the all New All Ball, All Basketball, all the time. Um,
this one's a really good one. Ron Baker, Superstar, All American,
All Solar System at Wichita State, the Fight of Four,
the Perfect Season, the Sweet six team. But also he
was there for you know, five years of Greg Marshall

(01:33):
and I he's got an interesting perspective. He said some
things I did not know he would say, and uh,
he wanted a chance to kind of clear the air
and give his thoughts on what really happened and where
he is mentally and emotionally with his basketball programmers. Really
really interesting stuff. So do we want to get to

(01:56):
the NBA Draft? Yes, yes, and I'll do a pod.
We'll get to every pick, literally every pick once I like,
once I don't like, and what you can expect. Um,
then we'll get to NBA free agency. Lakers doing quite well.
I don't think the Clippers are bad or anything. I
just I still think there's some adjustments they need to

(02:17):
make and maybe we learned something about what they thought
was wrong with Montres Harroll going down the hallway. But
we'll see. I'm not as big on Portland's as other
people are. Um, I get the Gordon Hayward thing, but
you're also not signing up for winning, You're signing up
for more money, so that part is interesting. So we
can talk some NBA on a different pod. We can

(02:39):
all start college basketball, which is supposed to get underway today,
the day of which this pod drops. But there's so
many cancelations that does it really really make sense to
me to break down every team? Not yet? We will well,
I mean, like you, I'll watch a ton of hoop,
I'll give you all my thoughts and some trends, and
we'll continue will continue to have outstanding podcast. But I

(03:02):
want to talk about this one with Ron Baker, who
I got a chance to meet along his journey, and
his basketball journey appears to have come to an end,
so let's get after it. This is Wichita State star
guard of course, formerly of the Knicks and the Wizards
and of Saska Moscow. Ron Baker. All right, let's welcome
him in. He's the legend not just of Scott's City, Kansas,

(03:26):
but also uh in w Cheetah and uh York and
in Moscow. He's the one and only Ron Baker. Um. Okay,
let's started the beginning because I was there when we
first met, was in Salt Lake City. I remember you
guys are getting ready to take on Pittsburgh in the

(03:48):
first round the ns AT tournament, and uh, you hadn't
played the whole season because you're hurt part of your
freshman year. I was talking with Greg Marshall and he
was like, Man, I'm telling you like this guy. We
had no idea he was going to be this good.
Growing up in Scott City. What was I know, you're
you're a great football players to play baseball as well,

(04:09):
football and baseball. Actually a baseball family. My brother plays
college baseball down the road here at Emporia State, and
my dad played college baseball for a state. Mom played
college softball. So some people would say I'm the outlier.
I missed everything up. Maybe you're just actually an athletic family.

(04:29):
So if you play and in high school, okay, So
growing up, like you know, I grew up, we had
youth teams and then it became travel basketball and then
you know, at the end, it was a youth basketball,
but not like it is now. Growing up, growing up,
was it a wreck team? Like how did you how
did you play basketball? Ground? Elementary was all wreck based,

(04:50):
didn't travel a whole lot. If we traveled. It was
mainly during the winter, and we had a thing called
m A Y B which is like similar maybe on
a smaller spectrum compared to like an AU. So you
you know, go to like a Saturday in the winter
to a local town and play against you know, four
or five teams. That's basically. And then once you get

(05:11):
into the middle school, you start playing your middle school sports.
But yeah, it's three sport athlete through And then were
you were you big growing up? We're like we always
I mean, you're like, you're you're a big You're a
big dudes. Were you like the biggest kid in the court? No, no, no, no.
I was five eight abuck forty my freshman year in
high school, one of those late bloomers. I think I

(05:32):
grew probably four inches my junior year and that's why
I didn't play AU, because I thought I was gonna
play baseball. I mean, when you're six ft you're you
can throw your you know, thinking baseball. But once I
got into the a U circuit that junior summer going
to be senior, that's when I focused anything on basketball.
But the position shortstop picture of course, of course, right

(05:57):
everyone's top of the lineup or or a clean up guy.
Uh bad and mainly three or four hole. Yeah. Yeah,
you drop bombs. I mean you just cry when you
hit a couple, hit a couple of one day, nothing
nothing to you know, hang your hat on. And then football.
You're a really good quarterback, I mean back, free safety? Ye,

(06:18):
which should you enjoy better? I mean quarterback appreciate his
offense is always I would say more fun, but yeah,
but free safety get people. That's that's where I was
probably my best at because as a free safety, it's
kind of the same role as your quarterback. You see
everything and you're communicating the most. And I really enjoyed

(06:40):
free safety probably a little more than quarterback actually, because
you see every game you so we started this thirty
seconds ago. It was quarterback because it's offet like kind
of like, uh, the more you think got it, free
safety too bad? Now, didn't you throw like a game
winning touchdown pass in your last game? Not the last game?
Know that was? That was? That was a routing by

(07:03):
Smith Center. If you look them up, they're usually pretty
good at football. But no, no last second tds. In
my career. You might be talking about high school basketball,
basketball game winning game when you put back, Yeah, the
state championship. Where was the state championship, hutch You know
that's where all the you know, yeah, the junior college

(07:23):
there where they have a national JUCO tournament every season.
So at what point, at what point in you when
you start playing the a U circuit did you start
to try and figure out what you wanted to do
and where you want to go. My first AU game
was against the St. Louis Eagles. I'm sure you've heard
of Ben McLamore and Bradley Bill. That was kind of

(07:45):
an eye opener leaving Western Kansas and going against those two.
But once I started getting confident that summer and playing
against that type of player having good games, I think
I just kind of dragged me to, you know, dedicating
myself to basketball. That was kind of it was more mental,
like you can be good at something, but once you

(08:07):
actually taste that success confidence, then it starts to drag
you in that direction. And that's when I that summer
is kind of when I definitely made a decision, like
a mom, Dad, Basketball's what we're gonna do, so let's
focus more. They just wanted they just wanted me to
be who I was and be myself, and I felt

(08:28):
basketball was where I was leaning towards. So, um, what's
the real story behind the witch toss day thing? Right?
It was because how great pitched it to us back
then was hey, we don't have a scholarship, but you
come walk on for a year and then you know
five for four which they read shirt and they put
you on scholarship for for four. What was what was

(08:50):
the actual conversations like how did it come to be?
So Chris James was the guy that recruited me, the
head coach at Michigan Michigan State at New Mexico. Yeah,
he had actually come and watched me at Hutch play
in the state tournament and then Marshall came with him
to the state final and they we're, you know, big

(09:12):
fans of mine. Uh. Coach Marshall's father in law was
actually the one that was pitching me the most. He
was such a big fan of me. He was, you know,
telling these two coaches like, hey, this guy, we you know,
we got to get him in here. They'd already maxed
their scholarships, scholarships out because this is I'm a senior
and this is first week of March right. So, I

(09:34):
mean everyone's pretty much committed or already given out their scholarships.
South dakost State, Arkansas, Little Rock had already offered, and
I was wanted to stay more close to home. Came
on a visit here, unofficial, pretty much cut and dry.
They kept it a hundred with me. They said, you know,

(09:56):
we've already dished out our twelve scholarships, thirteen scholarships, whatever
it is, and you know, we'll need you to pay
your way this first year, like it is what it is.
We don't have any scholarships obviously, but we want you
to be here. And I remember my parents being with
me on my visit and they just adored those two guys,
James and Marshall, and just how they treated him, really

(10:18):
enjoyed the process of being on a you know, Division
one campus that's in your state and going through coc
Arena and joined the visit and it just felt just
felt natural. Remember on the ride home, I told my dad,
I was like, yeah, I want to do two things
when I'm in college. One, I want Bob Knight to

(10:39):
know who I am. Two, I want to you know,
make her own an N state tournament. And we got
about halfway down the highway and he's like, all right,
you're going to State And I was like, yeah, bills right,
And that was it cutting simple. Why why do you
want Bob Knight your TV? At the time, it was
like right when Bob Night I shifted and started calling

(11:01):
like the big Monday games in the Big twelve, and
uh just really enjoyed, you know, listen to him obviously
historical coach. Just really kind of enjoyed the you know,
the sound of his voice calling games. And it was
always just a fan. How long does that drive a

(11:22):
little under four hours to talk about tough, tough week
nights for the folks being school teachers, they made everyone
two three in the morning. I think they missed one
game in my four years that I played because it
was they come so you're freshman or you read shirt right? Yeah?

(11:43):
Did they come to the games even though you red shirted? Yeah?
I came to a couple of games, you know, the
major games, you know, creating at home, a couple of
nonconference games, but not not regularly like they did those
next four years. What was that like for your red shirt?
The red shirt year was it was tough because we
had six or seven seniors I think on that team.

(12:06):
So I mean I was getting bullied every day, turning
it over, questioning, like, man, this for me, I could
every every athlete when they make the jump from high
school to college. I feel like, unless you're you know,
McDonald's all American, you go through a somewhat of a struggle.
Even McDonald's all Americans. I'm like, like I was not

(12:27):
McDonald's was like slightly below right, And I'm just telling you,
like I got my ass kicked every day. Like we had.
We had like six guards that I mean probably four
or five of them were pros the next year and
still are pros. So I mean we had a really
good team that year, lost as a tournament to BCU
first round. So I mean great learning experience. Like I

(12:48):
never thought playing a sport you obviously learn a ton,
but when you get a watch all the time and
you're you're, you know, the student of the game, like
you really can really dive in and learn alot. I
would say the most I ever learned. So when I
when I I went to Notre Dame and when I sat,
I sat out of year junior college and like the

(13:09):
irony too was I wasn't even considering Oaklhoma State. But
the Sutton's My dad had worked for coach Sutton at Creighton,
like back in the sixties. So Sean called me because
he sat out for a year and didn't go anywhere either.
So I didn't go anywhere, went to junior college, and
I practiced with the junior college team but didn't play.
And then I actually helped I coach some during games,
and then I helped out my high school something. And

(13:31):
but Shawn had said, like, you should watch games and
watch him now and after you played college basketball for
a year, and it's a completely different experience. Yeah, you're
just like, oh, that wasn't supposed to happen then, so uh.
And then after playing I played overseas for a couple

(13:54):
of years. I did actually did a couple of games.
But my first year of calling games for ESPN, I
remember doing some games and thinking to myself, God, I
wish I did this when I played. And then I
went back and played in France after after championship week.
This is in two thousands and three, and I remember
or two thousand two three, and I remember thinking like,

(14:16):
this is crazy, how much easier it is because you
see things like, now you played for four years professionally
and you see like, oh my god, that you feel
like the floor doubles in size. Yes, yes, you know
where everything is supposed to be. It slows down. Yeah. Okay.
So you start to play your freshman year and you're good,
your team again pretty talented, really talented. Um and when

(14:38):
you when you broke your foot, was it just sore?
Was it swollen? It's like eight I'm gonna say, like
eighteen games in junior conference play. How did you know
you broke your foot? So were the tricky thing to this?
It was the tenth game in we just lost at
Tennessee and to get a medical red shirt. I think
that was the number that you couldn't play right. So

(15:00):
that's part of the story of why I tried to,
you know, make a comeback that season. I had a
stress reaction in my nebicular, worst worst bone in your foot.
They say, at least from the doctor's perspective, that you
want to injure has like the least amount of blood
flow in your foot. So I'm getting all this information.
I'm like, man, I just sat out an entire year

(15:22):
last year, and now you're telling me I gotta sit
out another you know, twelve weeks, and just as a
twenty year older, just like obviously disappointed, but trying to
you know, keep it glass half full, like all right,
you know I can be supportive if I can learn
another year by watching. And it was about to twelve weeks.

(15:44):
The way it fell was right on the State tournament.
I'm like, all right, let's let's try and push for
eleven because eleven because the way the valley was working
back then, our earlier early so we're like, man, we
gotta push this. No, let's try eleven weeks. Let's try
eleven weeks. And our trainer, of course, it's like I

(16:07):
don't know, like I don't want to put this pressure
on run like this is his body. So we end
up coming back. Oh. I think my first live practice
was the Monday before the Valley Tournament and felt fine, good,
good to go, and then just took off in the
Valley Tournament, played well against Missouri State the first round,

(16:29):
the Illinois State and the Semis, and then ran into
my buddy McDermott in the finals and probably played them
the best we had played throughout the season. And even
it's crazy to say, but even losing to Creighton, I
think aided us going forward into that in state tournament.
So you guys played Pittsburgh and do you remember the

(16:50):
call that kind of changed that game? The Pittsburgh game. Yeah,
pretty sure. It was when I got elbow. No, yeah, yeah,
So you're guarding Lamar pa Erson. Yeah, he goes, but
he actually went by you, and he like he like
chicken winged you right across the chief and I actually
went crazy calling the game just because he knew it

(17:11):
on purpose. But the way the rule was written like
that was a that was a flagrant, and so it
gave him his third foul and they couldn't really score,
and so, uh, you guys made your free throws and
then you know, they just kind of you guys just
took off just boat raced them boat. Yeah. After the
I think after the first TV time out in the

(17:33):
second half is when we started taking taking our room there. Yeah. Um.
And then then what was kind of fascinating was I
can't remember if that was the first game, and then
the Gonzaga was was Gonzaga after you before he was
after you? You called both their games? You called the
pick game. No, no, I know, but I'm saying, did
Gonzaga play after you? Guys? You played after us against Southern.

(17:56):
We're like, and it was tied with four minutes to go.
I'm like, I know, and sparrowdid. This is my partner,
right and this is my first n c A terment games.
So I'm calling and we're sitting there and it was
like four minutes ago. And you know that that that
deal gets where all of a sudden you were the
one seed. You know, the next year where all of
a sudden, everybody's going crazy their Southern fans everywhere in

(18:18):
the crowd, every person, Yes, it is the Southern fan.
And we're we're gonna call the first sixteen one upside only.
Ship only, ship only ship, keep it together, give it together,
let it breathe, give it together, right, and the and
Gonzaga ends up winning the game, And um, what do
you remember about prepping for Gonzaga? I just remember prepping

(18:40):
for was it Ryan Anderson and then Alenic? Like we
felt like those two were just dominant the entire year.
Those two were like we we pretty much put our
whole defensive strategy against them. Our our back court was
pretty solid defensively that year. Obviously, Pangoes was pretty mounted. Um,

(19:02):
I forget the other kid, that Verry Bell, but he
got hurt. Yeah he's hurt, that's right. And then other
than that, like we felt pretty confident in the back course,
so we focused a lot on those two bigs, and
man they were they were pretty dominant, I'd say until
like the twelve minute mark is kind of when we
made our little run in the second half and everything

(19:26):
was clicking, man Like, even if we had like a
bad possession, we somehow managed to you know, get a
foul or get a you know, I'm picturing Fred, you know,
isolating Stockton right there bar bench, like lost the ball,
just everything clicking, corner three by me, you know, the
ball was moving and got some good stops. What did
you think of Fred at that point? I knew he

(19:49):
was He wasn't here, He was definitely here. He's always
been the guy like mentally knows the game, mentally tough.
He just he was raw that first year, especially especially defensively.
I remember a coach always you know, challenging him and practices,
and that's and that's where I felt like he might
have struggled a little bit his freshman year and coming

(20:13):
off the bench, and you know, backing up Armstead was
huge for him because maw had been maybe not instate term,
mal had been in some big, you know, college games
throughout his career, so that he was old and right,
absolutely nothing to lose really, you know, coming to in
state tournament. So I definitely think Fred learned a lot
from him. But yeah, Fred was there. It was a

(20:35):
little rob but obviously blossomed the more we got to
play together. When you close your eyes and you think
about the Final four, what do you remember most? This
might sound funny. I'm checked out of the game, my
first I got my first breather, and I remember just
sitting It's like it's kind of sitting at a table, right,

(20:55):
you're sitting in your seat. The floor is elevated, and
I remember looking like up into the crowd because that
was the first time I've ever played in a you know,
a football stad and I'm like, hey, every seat in
this place is full, and there's some people so far
away you couldn't even see him move. I'm thinking, why

(21:16):
the hell would someone pay dollars to sit way the
hell up there and watch the Final four? And the
second memory was that was the first final four in
my lifetime that I never watched because I was in it.
Like how how special is that for you know, a
kid from where I come from? And just that resonated

(21:36):
that that first game that we played there, if you
could do if you could do something different? I knew
you was gonna ask that. Well, I'm just I'm just
at because because again, like you are. It's you know
how you watch you like you don't remember the winds,
remember some of the winds, but you remember the losses,
the moments like, oh shoot, if I would have just
done this right? So for sure, Uh the three at

(22:01):
the top of the key in the second half, for sure,
for sure you feel good. I don't know, man, I
was just too unselfish, dumped it down to our big
and he got foul to put dang in foul trouble.
But that was that could have been it, right there, man,
that could have been it. Carl Hall's here in town

(22:22):
and we go play pool on Thursday nights. He brought
that up the other day. He's like, bang to change
one thing. I wish you would have shot that, man. Yeah,
trust me, I know, but future eight ball, let's get
this game. Uh? Is he good? A pool not bad.
You can't, you can't get baked. But he's pretty solid.

(22:43):
He's pretty solid. Good too, He's doing good. I mean
that whole story, Like he shouldn't been playing basketball, right Like,
dude had a heart problem, I mean literally like heart
problem and and they're like should he be clear? Like,
g give him another year? Come on, we need it.
Pretty amazing though, right Like the guy literally is not

(23:05):
supposed to lay basketball ever again. And somehow he and
his mom was was the one who pushed for it,
right moms, Like, let's find a doctor who's going to
clear him. Yep, that's that's how at least the story
was told to me. That's pretty incredible. He was, he
was bought in about getting that that last year with us,
he was. He was the heart and soul of our

(23:25):
team that year. If you said, which saw everything really
stemmed from, you know, his approach and his physicality. For sure.
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(25:37):
stronger bond with that group or the undefeated group the
next year? Yeah? The undefeated group was you know, basically
we all had minutes on the you know, the final
four team. And I don't say this slightly. I think
the the bond was better maybe in the the undefeated

(26:05):
year because I think to Kell Caughton started flourishing and
he was the heart and soul of our team and
really brought us in together. And plus it's kind of
weird going through a season and not being able to
learn from a loss. You know, those moods and practices
after loss, like you know, we're tough, practice like we

(26:25):
never there's usually usually I remember here, here's this will
probably help you or make make your point even clear.
My first exhibition game and Notre Dame. We lost to
some German professional team and like we had filmed the
next day, like seven in the morning, and they had
some big centers like seven foot and he was every
time when we come through lane, he just clubbed them.

(26:47):
And you know John McLeod, the late John mcleoud, like
Notre Dame. We're in the tour Notre Dame. This is soft.
Somebody hits your guard, you hit him right back right
next time. Alright, So what happens after you lose is
everybody gets reamed in film and then usually somebody gets
there's always a fight, right the guys that get yelled at,

(27:08):
they're tired of geting yelled at. They're tired. You've been
around each other a while, and there's like a like
a fight, Like I remember Oaklahoma State. We lose, you
lose a couple of games, row and there's a fight.
Did you have any fights. I've never been on a
team when there was no fight. There's no fights ever
in practice, fight undefeated year, let's the fight over. You're
kicking everybody's ass. I don't I don't recall any fights

(27:30):
we had a We might have had a couple of
you know, situations the final four year because we lost
like three straight I think in valley play, which is
just a big, big no no, especially when a couple
of them are at home. So that year was a
little chippy, but no, after that, it was pretty smooth
sailing in our locker room. What do you mean about
the Kentucky game, I swear no one could miss. If

(27:55):
they didn't beat us on the glass, then it was
game over. They just when you played Julius Randall at
the three, I mean, holy moly, and I mean people
weren't shooting the three. I don't think like that as
they are now, especially in the NBA. But you know,
the biggest thing I remember in that game is Julius
Randall checking into the game and he was playing the three,

(28:17):
and we had Evan west Alan look over at their
bench at cal Perry's just like post Julius. That was
the play called every time down. I'm just like, oh God,
I feel bad for you Wessel hanging there. Man, Yeah,
they just killed us on the glass, James Young Twins.
That all have good games. I mean we have, you know, Fred,

(28:39):
how did decent look at the end? All you can
ask for in those situations A comic basketball game to
this day, you know, grateful, and part of it's it's
amazing because I went from like your guys biggest supporter
and then at the time, like one of the things
that I feel like I always have done is like
you can't tell if I'm a fan to somebody who

(29:00):
not a fan of somebody. And my thing on you
guys being a one seed was like you just hadn't
played in the Big twelve. You hadn't right, So there's
there's no metric for it, right, And this is what's funny.
God forbid, you do your job right. You gotta know
you gotta give analysis on situations like that, and you're
not gonna please both sides of whatever comes out of

(29:21):
your tweet or mouth. Right. Well, I will tell I
will tell you there are many who do that job
who just everything is great and it's the it's the
like the j Willis Is of the world, I mean
jas the iould say by Tao and and generally CBS
like I was a CBS. I was like the first
guy to ever like question things or whatever, and they
were like, what are you are you doing? What was

(29:44):
why are you so negative? Like I'm not negative, just
being kind of honestly, not everything is the greatest ever, right.
I think the only what was our like our best
win that year was probably asked St. Louis I called
that game, yeah, and they just dropped They dropped some
games like the eight ten that they shouldn't have when
that hurt us, probably right, because then you start doing
the well who did St. Louis pied? Thing? Where I

(30:06):
was like, I was there. I think it was a
playoff Sunday, wasn't super Town, Yeah, and so there was.
It wasn't very many people there and it was a
Saturday afternoon too. That's why you called it because CBS no,
but it was it was a Sports network game. It
wasn't a CBS g I but I remember, um, I

(30:28):
distinctly remember that game, and I was like, look, I
was there, and it just didn't feel as though it
was just it was just it's a hard metric to
what would you do in the Big twelve? What would
you do in the Big ten? Because you have a
bad night in the Big twelve and they got a
pro who beat you right, whereas you do it in
the in the valley and you guys had three pros

(30:49):
um so you know, you were able to withstand any
sort of bad night. But what is that like to
win the Valley Championship and you have zero losses? Like
the perfect season? What is in high school? You even
lost one game? Right, people do in high school? Not
in college? What was that? Like? I thought it was
pretty pretty special obviously. I mean I think the last

(31:12):
team to do it was what Greig Anthony with the
UNLB team what Bob seen with Keats miracle shot? Yeah,
that wasn't done against me. They lost the Duke in
the semifinals. Well they went eat in the regular season though, yes, yeah, yes,

(31:35):
so I mean and uh St Joe's went undefeated in
the regular season, lost in the A ten tournament. That
was with Delonte West and Jamir Nelson and those guys. Yeah,
so you guys are being able to beat you know
every time you hit and no like you know, having
a theme for this one and then and then getting

(31:58):
compared to St. Joe's getting compared to you and LV like,
that's that's pretty cool, man, Like those are you know,
historic seasons by some great players and teams. So you lose, okay,
but you've been a final four, You've had an undefeated
regular and conference tournament season, and then you're like, I

(32:18):
did I go prod? What was that? What was that?
What was the decision? Like, I didn't put a whole
lot of decision into it. I probably should have maybe
put a little more decision into it to my sophomore year,
because statistically wise, I think my sophomore, junior or two
of my better years, we did the whole NBA e
vol situation. They didn't have the thing where you could,

(32:40):
you know, test whatever, test the waters, so to so
to say, until my I don't even think they had
that my junior season. So I really didn't put a
whole lot of thought into it. Um, you know, when
you clear was you know, probably gonna get drafted. I
didn't really know how the agent situation was, Like I
didn't even know how that process even became probable, Like

(33:05):
I didn't even know what the steps were too, you know,
hiring an agent. So I was pretty raw on that
in aspect. But maybe maybe should have done a little
more homework prior. But kid, coming from Scott City, I
don't really have plans to be an NBA player once
I got to whichitas so wasn't too studied up on

(33:25):
the situation. So what was Marshall really like your experience,
my experience just obviously you've been through and this is
why I wanted to get on this you know platform
with you and talk about this because you've obviously played
college sports, college basketball like just super intense, right, like

(33:47):
has his ways of coaching basketball, and he has this
system in play he wants he wants you to buy
in to his system, keep the game since you know,
simple play, defense, rebound, like he's pretty simple concepts. Obviously
we can get into the whole you know, situation that happened.

(34:10):
Like the big thing right now is like where the
snowflake era, Like we can't handle you know, being yelled at, well, yeah,
we can't handle hard coaching, which I mean everyone's different,
Doug right like, no, Fred Meale, others can handle it,

(34:31):
you know, some players can't. Simple as that he if
you can't buy into what he wants you to do,
like he's gonna hang a cloud over you each day
until you like he's trying to hammer this into you.
So like players are going to struggle, right, they're going
to transfer. I don't last year just so happens not

(34:53):
eight nine guys leave, no now it's just snowball going
down the hill. Right, You've seen Jeff Goodman's story, is
you know, telling, you know telling, He's diving into everyone,
like he he told me I talked to him a
couple of weeks ago. He's like, all I did was
called one guy from a transferred right, and he leads

(35:13):
me to another guy. Now it's just like a snowball effect. Well,
you know, coach, you know he is a hard coach,
and you know, do I respect him. Absolutely. He's been
great to me and my family. That's from my you know,
my opinion. These other players are coming out. I respect
them for telling their stories. Were there are days where
I thought, coach like cross the line for sure, like

(35:35):
that that happens, and what they did here with like
the committee and stuff, and I this is the first
time I've been coming out in public, by the way,
about this situation. He uh, he had obviously made a statement.
I think his first statement was like kind of like

(35:57):
the political correct statement. Obviously slee him and his people
in his circle like wrote it out and like he
didn't really touch based on like the Shack Moriss altercation
and some of the other things obviously were top of
the headline, and I was like, okay, cool, like maybe
you know, maybe he's just gonna like come forward and

(36:17):
be like you know, I you know, I did these things.
I apologized, like you know, Whichita loves this man, like
loves him, so like I'm thinking like, okay, maybe he's
gonna understand, like okay, and you know, it's a different
era of kids, like I crossed the line on a
couple of things. I apologize, and you know, I'll do

(36:37):
whatever I gotta do to you know, stay with my team,
because in reality, the priority is not to worry about,
you know things. The last thing him, he has a coach,
wants to do is worry about things he might have
messed up on the past. Priority is the kids. They're
on campus right now trying to prepare for this, you know,
this season, because the season was supposed to start tomorrow,

(36:58):
and you know, I'm waiting on a secret waiting. I'm like,
all right, he's gonna make a statement, make a statement nothing,
and then you know the shock Morris story, you know,
makes headlines. And you know I was there when all
this was going on, like I've seen him, you know,
kind of do some things here and there, but the
Shock altercation. You know, it's just sad, unfortunate. Obviously, you

(37:22):
know I was, I was in that practice. There's a
bang bang play at the rim. You know, Shock are
one of our three men was starting at the time,
Zach Zak Brown bang bang play. Shaq was you know
late to it, like it helps that actually went up
to the rim. Zach Brown falls down, you know, Marshall
just like flips his switch, man like obviously really upset,

(37:46):
like you know this is a starter, kind of just
goes in on Shock and I'm just sitting there like
man like just super uncomfortable. And you could hear like
a needle drop in the gym, like just you've been
in those actually like super uncomfortable, like you don't even
feel like playing basketball the rest of the day. Marshall
kicks him out of practice and like follows them out

(38:08):
into the concourse. So we're all like, man, just like
at you know, just shook, what the hell is going on?
So later you know practice sing as we go down
in the locker room and come to find out, Shaq
tells us, you know, you know, he got hit. We're
like man like, Shock and Marshall's relationship was never like really,

(38:31):
you know, tighten it. And they had some tension and
as you know, tension you know, continues to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. Well,
just so happened to be that day where you know,
it got to a point where it was just you
know bad. And a couple other players in that locker
room said they've seen it, and we're like, man, I

(38:52):
just felt like just wrong, like felt like kind of
hamp shaky. I just didn't really know as a twenty
one year old how to handle this situation. We're a
good basketball team. We don't we don't want the spotlight
of you know, the prestigious which a toss State final four,

(39:14):
undefeated sweet you know sweet six team resume to turn
into and coach Marshall, you know, hit a player. That's
why Shack, I think, waited all these years to now
circle back on the situation because it's like I said, there,
you know, their relationship was never tighten it. So for

(39:36):
me kind of being back in which till after I
got back from Russias, it was just like one of
those situations like talking to my parents and like now
these things, some of these things in the in the
first report, I'm like that, man, some of these things happened.
He's like, whoa, but you are not Ron Baker as

(39:56):
a pro without you know, Greg Marshall and his staff.
So it puts me in a situation like how do
I how do I handle this? Like I don't want
to go public because I don't really feel like if
I went to public whenever it came to life, let's
say a month ago, Like what's what's it gonna do?
Like I say, I say, you know, some of these

(40:19):
things happened. Okay, now it looks like man, Ron Baker
is not loyal to coach, you know, like the guy
that you know made him out to what he is.
But at the same time, as you know, a teammates
a teammate man like I personally don't think Shaq would
make this, you know, stuff up that day in the

(40:39):
locker room, Like why, what's I mean, what's it in
it for him? Like he's not going to make up
something like that, at least in my eyes. And like
I said, a couple other guys seem to happen, excuse me,
seem to happen. So just a weird situation. Man, It's sad, disappointing,
h I know, Coach Marshall is probably gonna watch this
and like he has so much love in this city.

(41:02):
Like for me, I think to make things right, I
think he should have just you know, biting the bullet
and staid, yeah, now I really messed up. I let
whatever it is get to him, Like I love winning
so much, Like just do the right thing that makes
sense and just it would have cleared the small around

(41:22):
this town like this, and regardless of the committee made
their decision to let him go, at least the tension
between Oh, these are you know, snowflake ere kids, like
they can't handle it. I mean, all that goes away
or you know, I mean it's obvious why none of
us players in that gym that day like went public

(41:45):
because we don't want we don't want that feeling of
and like those guys are just not loyal enough to
their coach type of So really, i'll give you a
personal Uh it's not exactly the same, but there's some
similarities there. So I'm at ESPN and coach Sutton has
a car crash. Now it's on a Friday night and

(42:07):
they're supposed to play the next day at Texas A
and M and I have a former teammate named Alex Webber,
his wife Denise, who was one of our athletic trainers.
She was like a student trainer, you know, when they
first met whatever. So I mean, like we it's one
thing to have just like a wife you met, like,
but she was there when we were there, right, So, uh,

(42:28):
coach gets in a car crash and I'm doing we
had like Friday night games, random Friday night games and
um we we we do a break into the game
and so I call Alex calls me and he's like
this is bad. He's like, you should call it Denise.
I was like, is he gonna She's like, just called Denise.

(42:50):
So I called Denise and she's the vice at that time,
vice president of the hospital, and I go, how is he.
She's like he's gonna be okay. I was like, well,
Alex said was bad. She's like it's terrible. I will well,
you just said he was gonna be okay. Like, no, no,
it's it's terrible. It's like drinking. She's like it's really
really bad. That's all I can say. So then I

(43:11):
called a friend of mine, who my old neighbor that
when I was we had like a house. We called
the palace. It was like three four bedrooms, like one bath.
We all lived together. Alex was my roommate. Our neighbor
was a cop. I called the cop and I was like,
hey man, what happened with coach Sutton. He's like it's again.
It was like it was like they all got like

(43:31):
a something to read, like really bad. He's like, I go,
was he drunk? He's like it just He's like I
He's like, I can't say what happened. He's like I
don't know, you know, like he hasn't been charged whatever,
but you should get the police report so you know.
Like anyway, it wasn't until that Wednesday that they had

(43:55):
a press conference. They announced that he was drunk and
he took immediate leave from the program on that Wednesday. Now,
I have been talking to them the whole time. And
on that Wednesday, I was actually in Vegas. My wife
was pregnant, my brother's wife was pregnant, sister in law,
and I was calling the game like the next day

(44:15):
Sandy State U and l V and it was his game.
He was an assistant coach. So we planned this trip
like we're gonna get together, We're gonna get a bunch
of food and trying to decide the names of our kids.
And I gotta go to Sports Center because my coach
had a d u I, and you know, I have to.
I'm forced to comment on it. Six months prior to that,
Bob Huggins had had a d u I and I
was like, man, you can't be a coach and have

(44:37):
a d u I right when you represent the school.
So now I'm in this, Okay? Am I disloyal if
I say, hey, I don't I love coach Sutton. I
love that man. He's done amazing things for me. He's
even after this has been a he was a remarkable
mentor towards me, the things he taught me and the
bond we have as players, and you know how and

(44:58):
I'm sure there's some of this too. Were part of
the psychology is they make it you against them, players
against coaches. It's yes, yes, then they're like, why are
these guys such assholes? We hate them? But there's some
kind of fucked up psychological thing where they like make
you and then it's us against them, and it makes

(45:18):
it so that you're much closer. Right, So there are
days mean, like, I hate that guy I hate that
you hate all those coaches, and then the end day
you're like, okay, uh, I kind of I kind of
got it, you know, I kind of get it. For
the next year, I was like persona non grata and
still water because I was disloyal and I was like

(45:38):
the ultimate act of loyalty to me is saying, hey,
coach is wrong here, like this is wrong. I love you,
but you're wrong. You can't do that. You can't be
the highest paid member of a faculty and be on
your way to meet the team plane and and be drunk.
And he's a he's a recovering alcoholic. Like I'm I understand,
I want him to get healthy, but you can't be
the head coach and do those things. Right, So I

(46:00):
and loyal and truthful, yes, and you can still like
I would, I would, I would guess like you still
care for Greg marsh You love the man, right, but
he was wrong and and and and also wrong to
put you in a position where you had to not
say anything at the time or even now, like it's
a really hard thing because he hasn't come out and

(46:21):
go like, hey, you know what, I did some things
because I even take I think the part you can
never put your hands on a kid. That's that's that's
that's been a rule obviously, that's what costs Bob and
his job in India. But the language stuff, you know,
I know that it reads as remarkably insensitive. Yeah, but

(46:42):
it's it's a basketball team and ship is that the
rules are different, right, So idem that stuff doesn't bother
me that you know, and you can and I think
you can walk back. It might not bother me and you,
But my point is it might bother someone else because
I mean we're not in there it right right, like
we're talking you know, psychiatric stuff, but it's a man yes, yeah,

(47:05):
I mean like about getting on your horse or whatever.
But there there's and and sometimes like you but you
can cross the line and then dial it back, they're like, go,
I call it it in. I was out of line.
I apologize, I was, you know, because we're all kind
of sarcast A lot of us are sarcastic asholes. My
thing with Greg was this, I never saw the level

(47:25):
of abuse or ever putting hands on a kid, but
at that St. Louis game, this is God's on his truth. Uh,
who's the athletic director at the time the same athletic director.
Oh the St. Louis game would have been Sexton sex
In or boat. Right, we're both uh a D and

(47:46):
then assistant a D at the time, I think, all right,
the assistant Yeah, yeah, So he was there. We're walking
in the hall and he introduced himself and I was like, oh,
good to meet Greg's boss. He's like, we all work
for Greg, right, and and and there's just a way like, look,
Greg Marshall when he was at Winthrop. I covered their

(48:07):
games and he went to seven n c A tournaments
right that him and his wife were lovely, and he
used to hang out with me in final fours, and like,
basically he couldn't get a job because he took the
College of Charleston's jobs and changed his mind. He just
he couldn't get the bigger job. And he did have
some bad parts of his reputation whatever um and so
I had a long relationship with them, but you could

(48:29):
see some of the some of it brewing in that
he just you feed a guy's ego enough, and you
feed a guy and a guy like I I would
guess to this moment he doesn't think he did anything wrong.
That's why you didn't see an apology. And that's just
the part that you can. You can walk back and
you can have a legit. Hey man, I was wrong,

(48:51):
I got I was I was feeling myself some and
I think that would it just sucks, because I don't
think it does. But to sum it may put a
bit of a cloud over what was an amazing five
or six years of basketball from one program. And he
was very much responsible because he is a marvelous If

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(50:16):
here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the
And there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom
is coming out the front door, strong with a double
arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom

(50:37):
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off. Ah, but
looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still
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(51:00):
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the AD Council. But do you feel do you feel
where I'm coming from if you were just like owned
up to note it at all? But for sure the

(51:24):
shock situation, because that's what I mean, let's you know,
call Spade a space. That's why he's not here. Like
if that story is not in the first article, I mean,
everyone would just kind of put it on the you know,
it gets swept on the rug kind of deal, like
he would have put out a first statement and then

(51:44):
put your hands on a kid. No no place for
its simple as that. And then the and you know,
Shack obviously laughed. What what do other teams? No, Shack
finished his four years that which stuck. But now it's like, yeah,
I can't come back, right he lives here, he does,

(52:08):
Like I'm trying to get it to where like that's
not an issue, Like we shouldn't have to worry about
check should not have to worry about going out in
public and people looking at him. Man, that's that guy
that called Jeff Goodman Like, you shouldn't have to worry
about that, right, No, that's terrible. No, that's a that's

(52:30):
like a societal issue, right, Like we we use these terms.
If you're the person who saw something or something was done,
we call you a rat, fink a snitch, right Like, Hey,
I was the one who did the thing that was wrong.
I was the one who did the thing wrong too,
And I actually didn't say anything for years so that
my team could could live out, you know, their dreams,

(52:51):
and their team was arguably just as good, if not better,
the next two years they were there. You don't you
don't want to come forward or then and ruined the
vibe or the morale of what you got going. Does
that make sense right? Yes, I totally understand. There's a
there's a guilt to it, right because because you do.

(53:12):
I think they think. I don't know what people think
of college kids, you know, where they don't have the
wherewithal Whereas most of the most of the guys that
I played are pretty smart, pretty understanding. They know, hey,
let me just get through this, and and uh, and
and use it to benefit me post career. Um, I

(53:32):
do think like there is plenty of time for things
that like make minds because like this, they're like we
already seen like Wichita community already come to like pact,
let's say, and you know, support coach, like you know,
he's done successful things. I spoke with Tom Devlin, I

(53:53):
spoke with Jeff Johnson out at Flint Hills here in town,
big you know, big supporters of you know which saw
State and coach, and they're like, damn wrong, we we
really support this man. Like, think of what he's done
in these past fourteen years, it's remarkable. I'm like, you know,
I totally, I totally agree with you. I'm an agreeing,
I'm in agreemance with you. But guys like what he

(54:13):
did that day, like, I mean, it's not right, you know, right,
and it makes it more not right to not offer
any sort of apology or or olive branch or ability
to discuss. I mean, honestly, I kind of feel like
you and Fred are the only guys that can, right,

(54:37):
and that's why we're I mean, this is why we're
doing this right now. I mean, I hope it gives
some clarity, you know, to the city. Those people that
are supporting Marshal, they have every right to and I
totally get where they're coming from. But I want those
supporters to come together and understand why Sheack did what
he did. And now we can, you know, turn the page.

(54:59):
The committee made their decision, coach resigned, he did his thing.
I really think him coming forward would bring all this
tighten it or like it used to be around these parts,
and we would just you know, move on together, move
on together, right instead of kind of being this thing

(55:21):
where you know, because I will tell you that now here.
Now here's the hard part. Okay. So I have a
really good relationship with my boy. I think he's a
very good man. And Scott Sutton's on the staff, and
there's a lot of orange on that staff. But when
your coach leaves and a new regime takes over, it's

(55:43):
never the same to go back. It just isn't. Because
talking as far as going when you have kids and
you come back and it's Ron Baker day and they
put your number up there in the rafters or whatever,
like it just it sucks because like that, I'm forever
envious of the Michigan State guys, the Duke guys, um,

(56:05):
the Kansas guys, the Kansas guys. Because Bill has been
there long enough now. But I think and and builded
a great job because he's a he actually hired Barry
Hinson to kind of help with it. But when the
I think the best part of the whole thing is
when you go back and people not just remember, but
the coach calls in front of the team like, hey man,
this guy was a help of player. Let me tell
you I recruited him. He did this, he did this,

(56:26):
he did this, he won this game for us. Like
it's like, that's that's all you really require when you're
a player, is just like, hey man, just remember some
of the ship I did and how hard I worked
and how much I bought it in the program. And
that's a really hard one when your coach is gone
and when they clean the regime out, you know, which
inevitably to this point hasn't happened, but at some point
in Papa Will. It's interesting because Jan's who I like,

(56:49):
and I know he recruited you, like, you know, he
had his deal at Bowling Green and after you guys
beat Glenzaga, you know, he had his spit cup and
he was gone, right, just we were all just gone
like it was. And I was I was like, man,
that guy that that drink went down a little too quick, right,

(57:09):
But he's a he's a he's a hell of a
dude and a right and a really good coach and that,
and obviously he's bounced back with the new Mexico state deal,
which is great. Um. But it's it's fascinating to me
because like I think, sometimes we get caught up in
a look I did stupid ship at Notre Dame, right,
Like that's we have bad moments, we do bad things,

(57:33):
but it's a it's the golf analogy. Still under par
for my life, right, And I think Greg Marshall could
still be very much under par, like really really under par,
if you would just come out and go like, hey man,
that was that was a triple bogey. That was I'm
embarrassed by it. I shouldn't have done it. I feel
really bad. And you know, one of the so they

(57:53):
were doing their investigation right on campus and I wasn't
even going to get involved. I was walking the fence line,
trying to be supportive, and then coach comes out with
a second statement saying I've never struck a player and
put hands on the coach like word for word. I
was like, what is going on right now? Like this

(58:14):
isn't even making any sense. Look, I'm telling you we
had two rules when we were here. We had no curfews,
we had nothing, like we had two rules. The first
day you walk on campus, you get a sheet and
the two words on there is there are not two words,
but the words on there say don't lie to me
and don't steal from me. That was it. So I'm thinking, like, man,

(58:35):
my freshman year that he said those things and now
he's coming out with this like it just it was that.
It was like disappointing and just like it just rubbed
me the wrong way. And then that's when I got
involved on Like I never went public, never said anything.
I talked to one of the lawyers that was doing
the investigation, and I was truthful and I told my

(58:56):
story of that day, and that's how about it. I
didn't I didn't feel like it was right for him
to try and turn the narrative on my teammate, Like
that really really hurt me. That was tough. Is there
any chance that Jack isn't telling the truth. There was
other other guys in the gym that day. I've seen it.

(59:19):
It's bad. It's a bad deal. Have you talked about
have you talked to him? Have you talked to Greg Uh?
I think the last time I talked to him was
and it was during the summer, probably July or August.
And I think once it investigation started, he wasn't legally

(59:40):
allowed to reach out to anybody that was involved or
potentially going to get a question in the investigation. All right,
I want to I do I did. I want to
get to a couple of things. You're real quick, all right,
knock him out. What was it like to play in
the NBA? Everything I ever imagined times or everything I've

(01:00:02):
ever imagined, and more like just surreal? Your first game
Aton Square Garden. Do you remember who was against are?
It was either it was I want to say Boston,
maybe Boston or d C because it was you know,
the you play those Northeast teams an exhibition. I actually

(01:00:24):
started the second half, had a pretty good preseason. I
think that's kind of why I made the team. But yeah,
just surreal, and not to mention man, think of my
teammates joking. No, all NBA player Derrick Rows and youngest
MVP Brandon Jennings performance in Milwaukee, Carmel and Anthony Hall

(01:00:46):
of Famer. Like the list goes on like just surreal,
like looking around, like holy crap. The only the only
rookie that year that might have had a better situation
was Kay Felder at Cleveland. Other than that, like that's
like a dream line up for a rookie, like un
heard of. It was remarkable when you made it. How

(01:01:10):
how who told you made the team? Phil called me
or Jamie Matthews actually one of our player personnel. He
called me into Phil's office and Phil goes, we're moving
you from B team to A team. Ron he made
the you know his zin boys, it was great. I played.

(01:01:31):
So I played with the Lakers for the summer league
one year and then like I was in there a
couple of different camps or VET camps that free aging camps,
and he would always call me Godfrey, Gilbert Godfrey, Godfrey,
Godfrey getting there, god Godfrey. He knows what we're doing.
You know what was Mellows like he was cool man,

(01:01:53):
he was he takes a lot of heat because he's
just you know, an easy target for the media when
you're the of the best player on the Knicks, Like,
obviously the media is gonna grab at you. But no,
he he did the little things for me as a vet.
Took me out on my birthday in Miami, like things
of that sort. It wasn't hard on me as a
brook I didn't have to do all the crazy things

(01:02:14):
you know guys probably had to do when you were
a rookie, but it was Coold Rose was probably one
of the most influential guys for me because he was
He was a guy that I can relate to because
you know, he's not real vocal. He's more of the
guy that you know, leads by example and you know

(01:02:36):
he lives by his morals. Like I really really enjoyed
being in the same locker room as him. Craziest ship
you saw, Let's do on the basketball floor in the NBA,
Like this is such a different level than anything I've
ever seen. My second second season, we're past getting closer,

(01:02:58):
past All Star break and Milwaukee comes to town and
I've never played against the honest before. I know what
he is about. My rookie year we played at their place,
but I just played the fourth quarter, didn't really have
a ton of minutes against him, but him and Chris

(01:03:19):
Milton get a two on one's past break, it's probably
it's definitely a third quarter. And I mean, I know
the Allys coming right Like I'm sitting on the bench.
I know the Allys coming is two on one and
Tim Hardaway is the last guy back. And I kid you,
not like he knows ally Ops coming to he kind
of slides the left and shades honest Milton's coming. Milton

(01:03:43):
throws it. I'm like, what the hell's he thinking? Like
he had to lay up. Janice jumps over over like
I'm talking not like between the legs, like literally over
Tim Hardaway and dunks it, and I just I just
sit there and I'm like, this is like something you've

(01:04:05):
seen him like a movie, Like this can't be. It
was severely fake. Same game, post up in the midpost
and I think you tweeted at me he post up
in the midpost and caught the ball and was just
like taking his time, taking his time, and then hit
a step back on Lance Thomas and in the game,
I'm like, oh my god, Like this guy was different

(01:04:28):
and like we never we wouldn't play like Lebron and
those guys in the regular season and like they would
never give him give us our best, and we never
made to the playoffs, so we didn't really know that
that type of calibery of competitiveness. My last story that
when I knew I was in the NBA was my

(01:04:49):
second year opening game. We're playing at Cleveland. They just
dropped the banner. Michael Beasley and I are sitting on
the bench and he has a relationship with Braun from Miami. Well,
we're up like twenty and the third quarter and Beasley
is standing up on the court is letting Braun happened,
just letting them happen. They shoot the first we shoot

(01:05:13):
the first free throw. Le Bron grabs the ball, gives
it to the ref and he starts walking towards her,
towards our bench. He goes, beast, shut the f up,
you know, we're just scrimmaging for June. And then in
the round and walks back. I was like, oh, man,
I made it. This is real. Okay, So you you

(01:05:34):
played with per Sesca. I played Russia too, so that
it's a I'm I'm intrigued by a couple of Russia
Um wait when you landed, Yeah, well you remember, uh,
just kind of dark, cloudy, muggie And obviously the airport's
not in the best part of town, and it was

(01:05:57):
like an hour to get to the city. Like it's
just a cultural difference, Like their vehicles are different, you know,
the highways are different. Which it chai, which it chai?
Like they ever they want, I don't. I don't want.
I don't want tea. I just yeah, just ice water,

(01:06:17):
bottle of water. Yeah, just different. My first game we played,
I played we actually one league when I was there,
and I played for teams now I think second division.
You're all great. We play on the road in St. Petersburg,
and that my two most vivid memories, actually three. When
we went out to eat and I didn't know. There

(01:06:39):
was no Americans, other Americans and the team at the time,
and I was just following these guys around and they
ordered food for me and it was gross, and I
was just and I like to to have all this
whole world going on and you not know anything that's
going on. What they're saying is a really weird. That
was the biggest thing, was a language barrier. And then

(01:07:01):
and then that night so then we're playing and it's
like the first game and I'd only like a week
a week and a half, and the coach, Sergey Bellof
and played in the seventy two team. He turns and
goes duck and I was like, I thought that was me.
I hopped up to like go in the game or whatever.
They're like scoring table and some guy like grabs me
like horse collar, tackles me. He's like that's like no, no,

(01:07:22):
you know, it's like with me. And then after the
game that playing, I played pretty good. After the game,
some dude comes in. He's like smoking a cigarettes sneak snig.
I was like, mm hmm ice and the ice my
knees and the ice ice ice. They went outside and

(01:07:42):
again remember this is two thousand one. Okay, this is
so I'm sure now they have perfect ice machines and
whatever and stem and all that other ship. But they
went outside. They actually scooped up snow, put it in
a plastic bag or put it in like a bag,
like a trash bag, and then you had like two
trash bags just real snow, and that was your ice.
Oh yeah, I was like, I also remember I landed
in Moscow at the big airport. I think shar Meta

(01:08:05):
was the name, and there's before cell phones or their
cell phones, but I didn't have one or it didn't
work or something, and I had to transfer to another
airport and I'm like, how am I gonna find this guy?
And there was like Russian writing in a basketball and
I was like, that's me. That was it. And I
got in the car and I just remember being in

(01:08:26):
this car driving through Red Square thinking to myself, if
he kills me and pushes me out the side, who's
gonna know? Is it? See? I was with Chess CA,
so we were taking care of pretty pretty good pro
players should be treated. The cultural difference, mainly for me,

(01:08:48):
was just the language. Like I couldn't go anywhere and
like be myself. I couldn't show emotion, you couldn't relate
to anybody like. That was tough for me because basketball
last about three hours a day from eight to eleven.
And then then what you know, You're hoping with your
driver who is somewhat boling, really nice guy, but I

(01:09:11):
mean your your best friend gonna be here driver, like
when you leave the That's what my was. We got.
We actually got a Russian tutor, so I can speak
a little Russian, okay, and then yeah, then was your
driver and I would hang out with my leg was
my driver. My driver took me to the mall. We
got betting. We did all that stuff together because you know,

(01:09:31):
no one else spoke English, smoke Russian. Mine in my situation,
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(01:09:53):
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(01:10:41):
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(01:11:01):
the fourth dot org brought to you by the United
States Fourth Service and the AD Council. So what now?
I had hip surgery ten weeks ago, just from wear
and tear or from playing high school football, whatever, whatever
the cause. Maybe deciding like it's time to probably hang

(01:11:22):
them up. Started networking here in which ta getting my
name out there. Got a couple of things that I'm
interested in. Would love, you know, just to keep all
doors open and kind of see where the wind blows me.
I'd love to keep relevance and you know, college or
NBA sports whatever that maybe a basketball whatever that job

(01:11:46):
line could be down the road. We'll just have to
see ever thought about baseball baseball calling calling callings and
games with old Joe Buck playing playing baseball. They're they
cut like three thousand players. There's no there's no minor leagues,
like no minor leagues. And then now all the European

(01:12:07):
teams basketball teams already have a season and these dudes
are waiting around for the draft. It is all screwed up.
It is nuts. Just the timetable sports right now is are.
But you know everyone's getting affected. So I can't complain personally.
If you never play another basketball game, will that be
okay with you? Yeah? I'm happy. Three surgeries, man, in

(01:12:31):
four years as a pro. That's tough. That's tough on
the body. I don't want to be your age and
having to gimp around and not be able. You want
to look as good as me, that's really really what
you want? This better hair, that's what you want to
look as good as me. I mean, you have incredible hair,
but now you cut your hair right, that was like
your signature. Used to do that, used to do that
terrible clap look, then you did, then you did the

(01:12:54):
fro and now you know now you're kind of you
got a little Justin Bieber very tight, was a like
a one on the side. I'm going for the David
Beckham Now, David Beckham just not as good as him
at his support as I was. Um, if if twenty
years from now, you got you got family, got kids,

(01:13:16):
what do you want? What's the what's the moment, what's
the what's the moment of Rod Baker's career that you're
most proud of? Probably just realizing where I came from,
where I grew up. And I really think seeing my
jersey come down in the rafters will probably be one

(01:13:36):
of the most like surreal moments. He goes up in
the rafters. By the way, it doesn't come down. Goes
up in the rafters. You don't bring it down the
rafters got down. Okay, yeah, Unfurral, Yes, I like that.
That's a good point at that point where we'll meet
in the middle there, I get it. But yeah, just
because you know you can put your hold college career

(01:13:58):
into one and I'll be up in that, you know,
the raptors. That's probably gonna be the the defining moment
that I'll look back on the most, not the I
didn't take a three in the Final four opening top
the key. Instead, I was unselfish through the ball inside
we got in foul trouble. Hello, coach Helo that one, Yeah,

(01:14:18):
that one's already deleted that one from the memory bank. Sorry,
I brought it out of the trash. You hadn't empty
the trash I I brought. I brought it out. Um
all right, Uh, last last thing. Um, if if somebody's
in a small town, right, Like, if somebody's into small
town and they have these dreams and aspirations, Now look,

(01:14:39):
none of them have you come from a really athletic family,
none of them have your athletic build. But what do
you say to the kid who is in small town
USA that feels, Hey, I'm not on the A U circuit,
I'm not playing with the big enough teams. How how
would you go about making it? What's what's the what's
the secret to making it? My my person my personal experience.

(01:15:01):
My biggest thing was picking role models for me was
my dad was high school basketball coach and we had
a good player that I looked up to. Clinton Johnson
was his name, Like, I always want to be like
Clint growing up, wanted to play basketball, be like Clint
and I got a little older, like close to middle school,
and I started watching Kirk Hinrich. It's like you see

(01:15:24):
role models, you want to idolize them, and then you start,
you know, working trying to be like them, imitate them,
study them. Like that was the biggest thing for me
growing up because like obviously you said you gained the
competitiveness maybe from your dad or you gained the skills
from your mom. But like once you look up to someone,

(01:15:47):
I think that's where you can start really, you know,
idolizing they say, your game after somebody, and when you
start tasting success and seeing it, seeing yourself to it,
and that's when I really took off. I think. So
like study role models, obviously, do the easy, like the

(01:16:07):
easy things, attitude, effort, like you can control those things,
use those, use those daily. Just work hard, man, like
you can't control Maybe how do you not lose your confidence?
I mean that's that's here, right, Like how do you
not like how like you if you're from a small town,

(01:16:30):
like you don't got anything to lose, right, I mean
you got to use you know, your upbringing and think
the little things you learn, you know from your peers.
And I'm serious about that role model thing that that
was so huge for me because we had like four
kids in my first grade class grow now like I
didn't you know, have you know a friend to go

(01:16:52):
play one on one with. I didn't have you know guys,
didn't you know make it even if I like five
players to go travel? Right? That role model thing was
huge for me. Just picking a guy out. I wanted
to be like them pursuing it. Just keep going. That's
that's the advice I can say that really really propelled

(01:17:13):
me to get where I was. When you see the
money that Fred signed for, what do you think? Oh, man,
that's a lot of zeros. But as you know, you
gotta gotta be happy for her stories like that man,
because you know Rockford, Illinois to which a talk, then

(01:17:37):
to Toronto and you know, being a face of you know,
about to be the face of a franchise like that's
a that's a real story. And he gives a platform
to you know, young kids to idolize like it's like
the perfect the perfect dream story. Has he changed that? Eli?
Since when you first met, No, he wouldn't. When you

(01:17:57):
text him, he didn't go who do this? Who does? So?
I got a new phone. No, Fred's always going to
be Fred Man, humble, hungry, you don't even care about
them mill. He he wants to win, and he'll be
He'll be working for that next that next deal in
five years, I guarantee it. Well. Look, I can't tell

(01:18:19):
you how I appreciate him your time, but more than anything,
you're honesty, especially considering everything's going on where you are
right now. And I mean this, one of my things
is I'm we're friends. We're friends, so when I can
help you. Obviously you've got a good feel for what
you want to do. But let's stay in touch and
we'll you know, the next chapter, we'll we'll do another
one in the next chapter. I love it. I brother,

(01:18:41):
have a good day. Man, see you guys. Okay um.
I didn't know that's where he was going to go.
And it's one of these things where you can be
reasonable about your coach and respect what he's done for
you and know he's made mistakes and just hope that

(01:19:02):
I wish that he would admit to said said mistakes,
but he hasn't, and it clearly really bothers Ron Baker anyway.
I cannot speak highly enough for Ron Baker. The human being,
the leader of a program that he no longer plays for,
but he definitely represents and represents it quite well. By
the way, if you love interviews like this, my show

(01:19:23):
is a little different. On radio. It's three to sixty
Eastern twelve three Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, Fox sport Trader
dot Com, the I Heart Radio app. It's called the
Doug Godlip Show. In the meantime, send me your thoughts,
Tweet this out, send it to a friend. This is
what really happened at which state. That is what really
happened with Ron Baker, how he came to be an
NBA player, and what it was really like for him

(01:19:44):
to play there. I hope you enjoyed it. I sure did.
I'm Doug Golip and this is all ball. On January four,

(01:20:13):
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