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April 9, 2019 39 mins

Doug tells you why Virginia was lucky on their run to the National Championship and that's not a bad thing. He also tells you why Mike McCarthy looks much worse than Aaron Rodgers after reports of their tumultuous relationship. Plus, he talks to college hoops analyst and former head coach Steve Lappas to find out how Virginia recovered from last season's crushing loss to a 16-seed to winning it all this year. 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
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(00:43):
We are Farmers. So last night a national champion was crowned,
and full disclosure, I was there with my son Hayes.
We Instead of attending the game like a media member,
I attended the game like a fan. I sat there
probably twenty rows back mid court. Great seats thanks thanks
to the good folks at Infinity and the coaches versus Cancer.

(01:06):
Amazing seats in fact, and I don't know how it
looked on TV. I don't. I you know, those games
tend to CBS is a really good job making them
look really pretty and really clean. But they always saw
all looked the same, like all domes look the same.
You look like you're separated from the crowd. They're up
on a grand stage, which they are. But if it's

(01:27):
possible for a seventy two thousand seats stadium, that's how
many people who were there, seventy two six o two.
To be intimate, they nailed it last night. It was
you know, I can't this is full full disclosure. I
really good seats, really good seats. And my son's ten.
And Saturday is a long day. You know, You've got

(01:50):
two games that even though the Virginia game Virginia Auburn
game came down to the wire, it still went short.
Probably went just over two hours, you know, when there's
like a two and a half hour block form thirty
or soven minutes in between. And look, we had the
run of the place. We had a great set up
with with the there's a sky box we could go
to to get food. And in spite of the fact

(02:11):
there's it's a long day, and so Sunday I played
in this Pringles celebrity game, which was a ton of fun.
Told you about it yesterday. And so after after that,
we went to Mall of America and I thought, you know,
we could catch a flight home here, do the radio
show from home, watch it on TV, have some people over,

(02:32):
and not be worse for the wear because of it.
Sell those tickets and even though usually Monday night tickets
are not nearly as valuable overall, you know, I mean,
I'm not supposed to sell free tickets, but could have
made some money for my wares, right, could have made
some money for my wares. So I'm we're walking to

(02:53):
the game after um doing the radio show, and my
son was he was tired. Were we're on the people
about sleep and it's a lot of travel, and he's
a little guy and he NonStop playing basketball, swimming, doing
just doing stuff and on my schedule where I don't
sleep a ton, you know, he was tired, and he

(03:17):
was like, man, maybe we should watch it on TV.
It's gonna be boring anyway. And I was like, you
know what, Bud, I've never watched the championship game with you.
You're the only guy I want to watch a championship
game with in years to come, Um, yeah, in years

(03:40):
to come. Absolutely, we can think about heading home on
a Sunday, but this time, let's go watch it. And
he's like, all right. And the first half and the
first slant stands of the game, it was pretty slow.
But by the second half and the second part of
the second half, the last six minutes, everybody's standing. Everybody's
including my son, who was able to like stand on

(04:02):
his seat because it's the only way to see over
everybody who's standing from And it was phenomenal. And I'm
walking back and he's talking to me, and I'm like, dude,
I'm still buzzing because that was an amazing, amazing game,
amazing game. Here's Tony Bennett after the game explaining how
last year affected this year. The quote that my wife

(04:24):
actually just saw. She went to that Ted talk and
you talk about being almost prophetic. What that says if
you learn to use it right, the adversity, it will
buy you a ticket to a place who couldn't have
gone any other way. And I don't know, maybe we
could have, but I don't know. Going through what we
did last year and having to you know, it helped
me as a coach. All the stuff that they talked about,

(04:46):
I think bought us a ticket to a national championship. Um,
maybe I'll say this. I think it's among the It's
maybe the luckiest run in the history of sports. Head
two rights beaten in three consecutive games against three really
good teams, and they find a way to escape. I

(05:08):
just Perdue a great team. I don't know, but Perdue
won the Big Ten. Is Auburn a great team? I
don't know, but they won the SEC tournament? And I
in Texas Tech won the Big twelve. Like those are
three really really good teams, three teams, and you don't
My my point about bringing up that they have won
some formam championship is you only win a conference you

(05:30):
only win a conference tournament championship if you know how
to close out games and to be down three last
night with fifteen seconds and come back and win, to
be down four, you know, with twenty seconds the night before,
two nights before, and come back and win. And then
you go back to Purdue, be down three with five
seconds to go, send it to overtime and come back

(05:53):
and win like that, And people get really mad when
you say, man, were they lucky. Like, look, luck, the
definition of luck is when timing and preparation collide, right,
and that's what he's talking about, Like what happened last
year prepared us for this timing and it all worked out.

(06:15):
But man, were they lucky? And the word luck because
it's it's like, it's like the four letter L word. Well,
don't you say we were lucky? We were good? Well,
you have to be good to get yourself close. But
they were without any question, lucky, fortunate, whatever word you
want to use, But I'll use luck. You know why
because before every game, what do you wish your teammate,

(06:37):
what do you wish your friends? Heck, what do you
even wish your opponent? Good luck? And yet somehow luck
is this four letter L word where if you say
it afterwards, you're the worst person on earth. Not only
were they lucky in terms of the shots that went
in and the shots that were missed and the adjustments

(06:57):
that were made or weren't made, but hell, they were
lucky that we have the use of instant replay and
that we have to go by letter, not spirit of
the law. And there's a play in overtime where Moretti's
driving down down, the court after a steel and the
balls hit out of his hands, and we go and
we look at it. It now, look in basketball, if

(07:19):
you played enough basketball, you know this to be true.
You know this to be true that in basketball sometimes
the ball will go off you, but you got fouled,
and the ref instead of arguing whether who the ball
went off and or or hearing you that you they
missed a call, they just give you the ball. But
now we've gotten to this point because there's under two
minutes instant replay. We can go to the monitor anytime

(07:43):
and we find letter of the law, not spirit of
the law. And I would point out that replays kind
of ruined stuff, you know, like it's okay for us
to go back and to see that replay deflecting deflecting
the ball to bounds went off of Moretti, but down

(08:06):
three in overtime. In overtime, Kyle Guy drives trips over
his own teammates foot Texas Tech gets called for a
foul and there's no ability to use replay. And if
I were to tell you, hey, ten years ago, we
shouldn't allow smartphones to exist because they're gonna suck up

(08:29):
every ounce of our attention They're gonna take away from
our ability of our kids to have conversations. You know,
it's just going to completely change the dynamic of who
we are and what we're about. No question. Um you
would say, okay, maybe, and then you see a smartphone

(08:52):
You're like, man, no ways, I can't. I mean, listen,
I had a true story. We had two backpacks at
a rental car and I thought I locked it. Maybe
I didn't. It was in a parking garage. I get
up at three thirty this morning to fly home and
there are no there are no backpacks in there. I
lost a computer and iPad and a phone, and it

(09:14):
was frankly with my son's phone. It was my phone.
Like as devastated I as I am, having a file
police report, having to talk to insurance, you know, having
to explain to my son what I did wrong. And
even if I did wrong, doesn't make it okay for
somebody to steal in all that stuff. Can I imagine
if I didn't have a cell phone, if I wasn't
able to communicate with the rest of the world. On

(09:36):
the other hand, when we would be better off when
we actually spoke to one another, like when we had
you know, busy signals when we called in, so as
you knew somebody else's on the phone, you had to
wait and maybe you could go over their house and
have an actual face to face conversation. Like I get
that replay gives us a perfect depiction of what actually happened,

(10:00):
and but you know, there's other things that we can't replace.
So it's completely imperfect, and last night was the perfect
display of it. If I were to tell you you
could do without replay, like why would we do without
perfecting something or getting calls right? On the other hand,
stopping the game, creating time outs where they didn't organically exist,

(10:22):
going back and forth, and still probably screwing up the
call to begin with. And you can't you can't correct
a foul call which is not on the team that
it was it was called on. There's a certain amount
of luck to that for Virginia and bad luck for
Texas Tech. And there's also this thought of we have

(10:43):
reached the point in sports where our desire to get
every call right has completely made sports unwatchable and frankly unofficiate,
uh unable to be officiated um in the in which
we desire, why would you make a call you can't

(11:03):
make a call like look, the the reason that replay
exists is so that egregious errors are overturned. And I
didn't think anything they went to replay four was out
that egregious. But you point to the monitors under two minutes,
we gotta do it. Stop everything. Oh wait, we reviewed
fifteen sixteen times. I thought replay in many ways screwed

(11:29):
up what was a magnificent sporting event, and through no
fault of their own, Virginia was incredibly lucky to benefit
from a couple of calls, a couple of replays, a
couple of Maine shots, and it just so happens to
be the third consecutive game in which they have been

(11:50):
remarkably I mean remarkably fortunate, and I'm not afraid of
the four letter O word. Hell, I'll call him straight
up lucky. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Doug dot Leap Show week days in noon eastern three
pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app. Steven Jones little radio station in Dallas that

(12:10):
Dak's new contract must be quote team friendly. At the
same time, this is Stephen Jones. Okay, who's the e
V p the executive vice president of the Dallas Cowboys
at the same time, and I could do it in
a Jerry Jones voice at the same time, And I
know Dac wants this. You want a supporting cast. That's
the way to go down as being one of the

(12:32):
great quarterbacks to ever play in the game, win championships.
I just feel like we gotta find our way to
a place where the contract enables us to surround him
with a great supporting cast, which a lot of it's
in place. We just gotta keep building on that and
be able to fit Deck in. He certainly deserves to
be paid fairly. He's a fourth round pick int Mississippi State.
As we all know, he's never made a lot of

(12:53):
money per se with this contract. Certainly deserves to be
paid and paid fairly. And these are all re reasonable things,
reasonable things, um. But then you factor in that Jerry
Jones is like, Hey, we're gonna give him new contract.
He's gonna be our guy. Bah bah. You know, those

(13:20):
things changed dramatically because Jerry Jones talks about him like
he's a top five quarterback in the NFL, deserted. Whatever
he wants, we're gonna give him whereas Stephen Jones has
a much more balanced approach. Look, he deserves to be
paid handsomely, but it's gotta be team friendly. We gotta

(13:40):
he's using all the code words. He's using all the
code words. We gotta surround him with supporting cast. That's
really good. In other words, dude, you gotta take less.
I know you haven't made anything, and we're not saying
you're not gonna make nothing. We're just not gonna overpay you.
They're playing good Cop, Bad Cop. There eggs in murder

(14:00):
talking it now. You almost wish you would there, There'll
be somebody else to go. Jon't, Jon't get your asses
in here. I like good buddycop movie. Uh, Cops is
a good buddy cop movie. Right? Um? What was the
one with Kevin Hart and the Rock where they had

(14:21):
a buddy cop movie as well? Central Intelligence? Central Intelligence,
Central Intelligence. I would ask Buyer, but he doesn't know
anything about movies, so I'll ask you, um, Ramos, do
you have a favorite favorite buddy cop movie? I enjoy
you're talking about Kevin Hart. I enjoy another Kevin Hart
right along called right along with ice with ice Cube. Yeah,

(14:45):
I'd say that's a good buddycop movie. I thought Bad
Boys Too is phenomenal. I also thought that um, Lethal
Weapon three? Were you adding Chris was leathal WebP three
with Chris Rock and uh, Joe Pesci Like, that's an
unbelievable cast. Unbelievable cast. But Jones and Jones are just

(15:09):
playing good cop bad cop, like Riggs and Murtalk, one
saying give Dac whatever he wants, the other one saying, hey,
gotta be a team friendly deal. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Doug Dot Leaps Show weekdays at
noon eastern three pm Pacific. So Aaron Rodgers has finally
responded to the Bleacher Report piece where uh, basically basically,

(15:31):
and we had to tie down on who who authored
the piece. Um, basically, what happened was some unnamed sources
and some name sources, most of whom I think all
of them are former Packers, came out and said, like, look,
Aaron Rodgers didn't respect his former coach, Michael McCarthy, didn't

(15:56):
respect change of plays, rolled his eyes, had bad body,
lang which thought he was dumb, said he was dumb.
And then the one guy he was tight with and
he respected, who was his quarterback, coach Mike McCarthy fired,
and that really created an even wider riff between the two.

(16:17):
That's essentially my read into it, right is if you
read the piece, you came away thinking, Aaron Rodgers, man
is he smart? And man does he know it? He
comes across as an arrogant, know it all who carries
a huge chip on his shoulder. And you know what,

(16:38):
I don't think that it comes out that bad at all.
Does he come across arrogant? Sure? Does he come across,
you know, as a guy who pushes people? Sure? Absolutely,
But that pales in comparison to what Mike McCarthy comes
across looking missing a meeting, for getting a massage, being
having a low football IQ. What would you rather be

(17:02):
called too smart or too dumb? What would you rather
be called too hard driving or lazy? If you want
to be a head coach in the National Football League,
the last thing you want to be called is dumb
and lazy, like you're Aaron Rodgers. Yeah it may read bad,

(17:26):
but you almost feel like coming out Aaron Rodgers coming
out and saying this is an accurate this is an
accurate portrayal whatever. You almost feel like you give it
more validation more validation instead of I didn't read it.
People don't know what goes on here. We're going to work, like,

(17:50):
don't get me. I get it. You know, I know that.
I understand when people say you're too smart, it's not
actually a compliment. One of the places I worked, my
boss it was not a compliment, and he tried to
no necessarily comment you're the smartest basketball guy we have
like that that that didn't this feels like a butt

(18:12):
there or yeah, it doesn't match up. Your words don't
match up with your actions. That's because when when people
feel that they're you're too smart, then they uh, they
automatically think you're arrogant, and they get a little defensive
and they shut down a little bit. What he wants
for the guy who know he is smarter than them,

(18:35):
but knows he's smarter than them. And that's how Aaron
Rodgers comes off. That's how he comes off. On the
other hand, I'm okay being called too smart. I'm not
okay being called dumb and lazy, like I don't even know.
Mike McCarthy is the one who and he has come

(18:56):
out and said, you know, like this isn't true whatever,
But I mean, if we want to really kind of
get down to brass tacks, here's what Aaron Rodgers said
about the report on ESPN Wisconsin. It's ridiculous. It is
patently false. I talked to Mark earlier, like last week,
and I said, Mark, who did you tell somebody about

(19:18):
the conversation. He goes, that's ridiculous. We had a great conversation,
like we always do. So so that's that's just one
point that article, amongst a number of highly questionable things,
not to mention unnamed sources, and we put your name
onto something unnamed sources, right because Deep Throat was an

(19:38):
unnamed source. Sources don't have to be named. If they're
multiple sources and they're telling the same story, then that
that's journalism. You have to make sure you you cross
your tease and dotch your eyes. You can't have simply
one source, and you can't have you know, multiple guys,

(19:58):
can't have the same source going to different guys. If
you do a thorough job, I don't care if it's anonymous,
because the idea of putting your name on calling Aaron
saying telling some of these stories about Aaron Rodgers and
the conversations that he's had. Now, if it becomes a
source that mentions something that's hearsay because it's a private

(20:20):
conversation between two people, and instead of instead of reading as, hey,
this is what a source said about a conversation with
Aaron Rodgers and there's only you know, only one other
guy in that conversation, and that guy did not talk
to the reporter, then you're using a third source. So
it wasn't in the room. That is hearsaying, you're reporting

(20:41):
what you heard. Nonetheless, I will defend a named sources.
Unnamed sources is journalism, Absolutely is, as long as you know,
I'm Tyler Dunn has an editor, he has his editor
has to feel comfortable with whose sources are, especially in
a story that's strong. And Aaron Rodgers of course categorically

(21:03):
denies it, kind of laughs it off, And I'm sure.
I'm sure the truth is generally somewhere in the middle.
Do I think that he thinks that Mike McCarthy is
a dope? Probably not. But do I think he thinks
he's super smart at football and some profound thinker. I
do not. I really don't. I think the truth is

(21:27):
somewhere in the middle. That he grew tired and weary
of a style that allowed great players to just win
and dependent upon Aaron Rodger to create things like Look,
there there are some people that will lead you to believe, Hey,
Aaron Rodgers needs a strong offense, and you know he doesn't.

(21:48):
He doesn't need predetermined throws. That's for guys like Mitch Drobiskie.
That's for some of these quarterbacks that aren't at his level.
They need an offense that creates windows for them so
that they can get up to the line of scrimmage,
make one read and throw the football. And it's that's
not gonna Aaron Rodgers wants to challenge himself. What does

(22:08):
it challenge himself? And now only He's not gonna simply
go off of you know, go off of some cute car.
You're not gonna He's gonna freelance a little bit. That's
what he's gonna do. And I'm I tend to agree
with the idea that none of it is totally true,

(22:32):
but it's more true than not true. You want to
convince me Aaron Rodgers is really really smart, I'll believe it.
You want to tell me that being really smart and
being really confident strikes some as being arrogant. I'm gonna
believe that too. Do I think Do I think he
changed plays? I do? Do I think he waved off
place and rolled his eyes and that Biden that bad

(22:53):
body language? I do you know why I saw it?
Does Do I think that he thinks Mike McCarthy is
an idiot? I don't. I don't. Do I think Mike
McCarthy love working with Aaron Rodgers. No, But I also
think that most super talented guys are can be hard
to deal with. And of course you're caught in between

(23:13):
where that when you're the coach management who hadn't drafted
well and wasn't willing to spend money in free agency
at a quarterback that knows he needs guys to get
open based upon the way in which they're playing. Fox
Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f

(23:35):
s R to listen live. I think the best team
I ever played against was coached by our next guest
um in. I've played as a freshman for Notre Dame,
and there was Notre Dames first year in the Big East.
The fourth best team in that league was Syracuse. They
went to the National Championship team. The third best team

(23:56):
was Georgetown. That was Alan Iverson was on that team,
uh Jahiti White, Jerome Williams, it's a junkyard dog. Victor
Page who led the Big East actually in scoring. And
there was a stack squad. Othella Harrington played a long
time in the NBA. And the two best teams were

(24:17):
Yukon Ray Allen dron Cheffer was the point guard. Travis
Knight was one of their big guys. Right, Like, that's
a stack squad. And to me, the best team we
played was Villanova and they had Carrie Kittles. There was
like twenty a game, Eric Ebers who's like a six seven,
lights out shooter. Jason Lawson was their center, Alvin Williams.

(24:39):
They have a big guy named Chuck Cornegay who all
we did was said screens, dunk, rebound, layoup, like perfectly
built team. Then they they brought a freshman off the
bench named John Cellistan who eventually became a first round
pick of the Lakers. Like, they had a squad and
they lost in the first round of the tournament. And
it's not I'm not bringing When I bring in Steve Lapis,
I don't bring him into pour salt into the wound.

(25:01):
I bring him and he knows. He's a dear friend
of mine, a former colleague of mine. Works for CBS
Sports and Westwood One, and lap like. Obviously it was
different for your teams because you lost Carrie Kittles and
lost Eric Hebers. But but I mean compare and contrast
you guys lose in the first round with that great team.

(25:22):
Imagine if the next year you went off and won
a national championship and then did sell in the fashion
that Virginia just did. Right, There's some similarities there, had
you accomplished that that task, correct? You know? You know
the one thing I've known about you, I've known you
for years and years that you have an unbelievable insight
into not only the game, but into the people involved

(25:44):
in the game. I said it today on a radio show.
I said, who was able to erase the lowest professional
point of their career and do like Tony Bennett just did,
loses to a sixteenth comes back and actually, right now,
totally Bennett can laugh about that lost the U n B.
I cannot laugh about that lost old because I did

(26:07):
not do the next year or the year after what
you would hope to do to erase those feelings. So
that's that's an unbelievable way for you to start the show.
And it is so insightful. I can't they I talked
about it today. I was not listening. I love you,
but I was not listening to every every other radio
show you did the other But the the way which

(26:28):
you where you and I are like, it is like
we're just we're just emotional people, right, Like you're a
you're a New York guy, like I'm a son of
a New York guy, and we we don't have the
ability like the grace where he how he carried himself
after they lost and then he just lose. They got
run out the gym by UNBC. They're a one sea
get me by twenty points. But that's the same his

(26:50):
his pulse never seemed to go up or down even
this year. These last three games, they probably should have
lost any or all of them. But maybe it's his demeanor.
Is that does that train inslate to the team. You
know what you have to think it does? You know?
And I agree with you. I mean, this is a
guy who is so even keeled it's it's really hard

(27:10):
to believe. And the way he handled what happened last
year and the way he's handled even winning this year.
I mean, he is somebody that really a lot of
people out there, coaches, young coaches, need to emulate, because
he is really I think he's a credit to the profession.
He's a tremendous coach. He's a great guy. I think
he does it the right way, and uh, you know,

(27:32):
he's he's just one of those guys that you want
to put on a pedestal. Um. Okay, so let's go
get down to brass tacks. Um. I thought, look, I
think Kris Beard is a masterful coach. But not taking
Odiosi out he makes the free throw to put him
up three, and not going to that small lineup where
they can switch everything. I thought that was a kind

(27:54):
of as much as you know, uh Colver, Culver can't
come off his man in the corner and give up
a three when you're when you're up three points, I
thought that one lack of a sub may have undid
the entire thing. You know, when when tied Jerome was
coming off that screen on top, which by the way,

(28:14):
I know they switched picking rolls all year. That was
probably one they didn't have to switch. And Odiacy comes
with Tied your Own, coming at him full speed and
he has no shot of keeping him in front, so
he gets to the rim. And you gotta figure that
these guys are so programmed defensively by Chris Beer because
he is a tremendous coach to like converge on a

(28:36):
guy who's getting to the basket. Did they forget they
were up three and they should give up the two
because to leave DeAndre Hunter alone in that corner like
they did cost him the national championship. There's no doubt
about it. So I agree with Odioscy should have been
out or if he's not out, And it's hard to say,

(28:56):
don't switch that because they switch it all the time,
But that was a that was a picking roll that
was you didn't have to switch because it was so
far out and it happened so quickly you could have
gone under it and not worried about it. Instead they
switched it. Tie Jerome goes completely BIODIACI. He's at the basket.
They react by coming into him culver and lead DeAndre

(29:17):
Hunter open for the Shot of the Year. UM. There
was a couple of reviewed plays which create these artificial
time outs, and one the one that everyone's talking about
is David Murretty's dribbling down the court looked like he
got fouled, and then the ball looked like upon further review,
it went off his fingers. You're a former player, You've
coached at every level, so you know, like this is

(29:39):
one of the things that replay takes away is that
sometimes if you miss a call like oh I got found,
don't worry, I'll give you the ball out of bounds, right,
you can't do that and then you go to replay
and now you can't even get away with it and
you can't go back. Is there a way to fix that, Boy,
I don't know if there's a way to fix that,
you know. I mean to me, that call should not

(29:59):
have and overturned. I mean, d i q Day obviously
hit that ball where it was going out about from
a physics standpoint, Now you can look at it and say,
did Maready get his finger on and what I think
that call should not have been overturned. I don't think
there was enough evidence that. Hey, there was as much
evidence there as there wasn't a call earlier that they
didn't overturn um. So I just that that was unfortunately

(30:23):
protect this text. I don't think that call should have
been overturned. And how about the call they they they
call him already for the trip. It wasn't even him. Yeah,
no is And and that's the problem, right, like you know,
like did are you? Are you allowed to challenge a
foul that's not a foul? Like we we just get
into this thing and this is it actually relates to

(30:44):
and you and I are kind of on the same
side of this thing. It's a little bit like the
paying the players thing, which is we got a great
we got a great game, and we're trying to perfect
a great game. It's just like d n s a system.
We got a great system. We're trying to make it
perfect for everybody. It's just not And the more we
try and perfect it, the more we it's it's imperfect.
More there's this law unintended consequences, and we're starting to

(31:04):
see them, like last night, when what should have been
a foul, then it gives the ball to the team
that actually committed the foul. Yeah, I mean you know,
so you know you go to the you go to
the monitor, and they're gonna and you gotta think they're
gonna go to the monitor about more and more things,
I think in time, and they're gonna go for goaltends
I think at some point in the last two minutes.
So there's no doubt that it's taken that element out

(31:25):
of the game, that human element, which is part of officiating.
That's kind of starting to get taken out of the game.
All right, Listen. I don't want to be negative, because
I absolutely love the game. Like I had my ten
year old son with me and he was, you know,
he uh and he you know, he was he wanted
Michigan State to win. And then you know, like, look,

(31:45):
I know those guys to those guys on on the
staff at Texas Tacker, former ROCALMA State coaches, and I've
known Tony for hell third thirty years. I mean don't
know everybody there, but I was, you know, it was
a hard sale to ten year old boy. Kind of
worn down by a final four weekend when we did
everything that he was like, his game's gonna be boring.
I'm kind of tired by the end. I mean, seventy

(32:10):
people on their feet Um, compare and contrast. You and
I sat beside each other at the end of Carolina
and Nova three years ago. Um, which one was the
better game in your opinion? Well, you know, I'm gonna
say that one was a little better maybe, I mean
just because of the drama of the way it ended.

(32:32):
But other than that, this game was as good as
it gets. And and nobody expected it. You know, everybody
thought this and it started. The first eight minutes were
pretty ugly business not about it. It was really you know,
we were headed for like I could I I said
it where we were watching the game that uh, well,
I can see the articles tomorrow the college games a mess,

(32:52):
and look what we have here. You could see it
after the first eight pens and then all of a
sudden it picked up. So the college game is fine.
Frommendous game last night, I would say that Villanova Winno
in North Carolina because of the drama of the last
last second shot by Jenkins. I did that the age.
But this was a great, great game. With a minute ago,

(33:13):
Texas Techs down two points. They get a bad call
when they reverse that thing, and that's what changed with
the minutes ago. You know, overtime. It was a heck
of a game. Yeah it was. And remember there was
there was the other shot in the Carolina game that
tied the games double Colts. But but before the Chris
Jenkins shot. Steve lapis Uh, former Manhattan Villanova U Mass

(33:36):
head coach, work for CBS Sports and for Westwood One
kind of suspending time with the day after Virginia crown
national champion for the first time, joined us in the
Dougallup Show here on Fox Sports Radio. You're a New
Yorker uh Bronx High School Science City College in New York, Right,
you started college and you started coaching at at the
uh um At City University, right, and then of course

(33:58):
you know made your way on your high school coach there,
Chris Mullen gets fired. Like Chris Mallen is a New
York legend. He's a pro guy. And like, look, those
of us who covered it new that he wasn't he
wasn't a detailed guy. But he did make the n
c A Tournament this year. And now St. John's the
last two coaches they fired have both made the n

(34:19):
c A tournament. And you know, look, is it is
it still a great job, Like We lived so much
on that nineteen eighties St John's. You're a New York
or what's the state of St. John's job as of today, Doug.
It was way different when they were good. First of all,
when they were really good. And then Chris Mullen, Walter Berry,
Malik Seeley, Mark Jackson, ron Ard test all those guys,

(34:43):
they all came through the Riverside A youth program. So
Ernie Launch was a graduate of St. John's. He sat
behind Louis for twenty five years. Those kids from Riverside
Church were either going to St. John's or he went
to Law School Virginia. That's where they went. I gave
up recruiting those guys. Now that Ernie Lord has since

(35:05):
passed away, the Riverside Church programs not the same. And
the other thing was Carnsta told me he would walk
into a kid's home on a home visit. He say,
give me a napkin. It was his rastyus give me
a napkin right on the napkin, like twenty dollars that's
what they could legally give you because they had no dorms.
So now St. John's is a commuter school that has

(35:27):
built dorms so kids have to stay on campus, can't
give him money. Ernie Laws is no longer. People ask
what's happened to St. John's. That's what happened to St. John's.
They have to reinvent themselves somehow, and it's not that
easy could do so I think it's a great job.
I don't. And the other thing a problem. The other
problem with St. John You play in Madison Square Garden,

(35:49):
which with eight thousand people in it or nine thousand people,
and it's not a great home court. And to establish
a program, as you know, you gotta win of your
games at home. Yeah, you can do that when the
gardens full, but how do you get the garden full
when you're trying to build the thing up? St John's
is a difficult job. I'm not saying they can't win

(36:10):
New York. It's changed when people think about St. John's
in the past, not what it was. No. And you
also don't have You may play Syracuse in the year
and you Kon a year, but you don't every year
play Syracuse. You don't every every year play Yukon. You
don't every year play the old big East schools in

(36:31):
the garden. You still have Nova. You still have Georgetown.
Georgetown's obviously not what was so in addition to uh,
in addition to trying to build the program up, and
it's less of a it's not a St. John's town anymore.
If they'd still like a big event with a big
event town, you're not playing those traditional rivalries in the
garden on a Monday night or on a Saturday night

(36:52):
where you're drawing those huge crowds, no question about it, Doug.
And that's and so you put all that stuff together,
and don't get me wrong. St. John's can be good
in this big East. Put his way, they got a
better chance of being because this big East than that
old Beast. And that's not knocking this big East that
you know, Villanova has been national champs two of the

(37:14):
last three hand but they definitely have some things they
have to They got to get the right guy in
there right now. The still got um. We mentioned your
East Coast guy you coached and Nova he coached at Manhattan.
You coached at U Mass And even though you Mass
is up in New England several hours north, at least
you can draw on the East Coast and East Coast

(37:35):
prep schools. Mick Pronin's a Cincinnati guy, right. His dad
was high school coach there. He was a high school
coach there, He became an assistant there. He went to
Murray State, which is not that far away, a couple
hours away at Louisville. Cincinnati has always been that area.
Now he's coming out to l A. How difficult do
you believe it is for a coach in this day
and age to make a transition from always being in

(37:57):
one area the country to be down the West coast? Well,
you know, uh, Doug, you probably can speak to that
better than me, and that you you know, you lived
obviously in Los Angeles area for a long time. It
can't be easy now. The one thing I'll say about
Big Crown though, is he's he has a chance to
get better players where he is now because I think

(38:18):
California is loaded. So I mean, can he get those guys?
Those guys come and play the way, and they have
to be willing to be coached hard, as you know,
because that's what he does. But he's a tremendous coach
and he's gonna have a chance to get better talent
than you've ever gotten to Cincinnati. Can he get those
guys it's U c l A. I gotta think they're

(38:39):
gonna get those guys. There's gonna be some of them
that are not gonna want to be coached hard. And
you know he has a reputation for coaching guys hard.
He's a coach, but he's gonna coach the hard. It's
gonna be more about selecting than it is about recruiting.
And uh, there's some pitfalls there. Those are Those are
four million dollars a year from a form you know,
former high school coach Cincinnati to a guy who they

(39:01):
were they were on when he first got the job. There.
That's a it's a pretty good come up. It's a
lap great job in the tournament as always this year.
Miss working with you and seeing your face on a
daily basis. Now get out and hit some golf balls
in him, long and straight, all right, always missing dog,
You're the best. Thanks man, alright. Steve Lapps, good friend
of mine, former colleague of mine, CBS Sports in Westwood
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Doug Gottlieb

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